Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Wednesday, January 30, 2008
Mike Adams :: Townhall.com Columnist
Fred Phelps Goes Down Under
by Mike Adams
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


Fred Phelps, the pastor and head lunatic of Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) of Topeka, Kansas (call 785-273-0325 or visit godhatesfags.com) has written an open letter to the family of Heath Ledger. In the short letter is a demand that the Ledger family divulge the time, date, and place of the late actor’s burial in Perth, Australia, so WBC can go - in respectful proximity - and conduct a “religious service.”

Fred Phelps has already caused untold suffering and pain to the families of dead American soldiers by protesting their funerals with signs proclaiming that “God Hates America” because “Gad Hates Fags” and America tolerates them. He even proclaims on his website that Americans should celebrate Improvised Explosive Devices as a gift from a God who is punishing the soldiers by blowing them up – again, for America’s crime of tolerating homosexuality.

Phelps says that Heath Ledger would want the Westboro clan (or perhaps, Klan) to appear at his funeral for three reasons:

1. As a warning to the living that they should repent, "lest they also come into this place of torment. The church claims that Heath is pleading right now for somebody on earth to preach the truth to his family, unless they, too, “join him in Hell.”

2 If Heath could come back to life to speak to his loved ones on earth, he would “lift up his voice in a hideous scream,” in order to say "Listen to Phelps! For God's sake, Listen to Phelps.”

3. Finally, that the Ledger family owes it to the youth of a world that Heath misled in his movie "Broke Back Mountain" – specifically by misleading them into believing it was permissible, morally speaking, to be gay.

The open letter closes by saying, “All those whom Heath misled will arrive ultimately in Hell, and they will curse Heath to his face throughout all eternity. Please tell us the time, date, and place of Heath's funeral in Australia. Thank you.”

I’m going to surprise many people by joining in the request that Fred Phelps and his congregation be given information that would lead him to the funeral and burial place of Heath Ledger. Providing this information to these lunatics would, in my constitutionally protected opinion, have three principal benefits:

1. Relaxing Gun Control in Australia. Recent restrictions on gun ownership in Australia have had deleterious effects on public safety. In fact, the rise in crime accompanying the rise in gun control in Australia provides just the kind of natural experiment needed to refute the claims of anti-gun propagandists like Michael Moore. But after Fred and his violently bigoted gang of terrorists show up down under – and there are no guns handy to re-establish the peace – Australians will be demanding the return of full rights to gun owners. And, clearly, the left and right will be united against this unspeakable coward.

2. Getting Fred Phelps out of America. It should go without saying that the second advantage to getting the WBC congregation to Australia is that it will get them out of America. Once gone, we can then deny Phelps and company re-entry as a punishment for their treasonous acts as Americans. There is little use denying that WBC is a terrorist organization, which has provided comfort and aid to America’s enemies in a time of war – both with their speech and with their actions. Keeping them out of the country may seem harsh but it is not nearly as harsh as the penalty they truly deserve for committing treason: death.

3. Getting Fred Phelps ready for the prospect of hell. It would be a good idea to let Fred go down under before he really goes down under. In January, it is quite hot in Australia. It’s not as hot as hell but it should allow him to acclimate before making his final destination.

Of course, it isn’t me who says Fred Phelps is going to hell; it’s actually Fred Phelps.

I’ve always said that gays were among the angriest people on the planet and, clearly, since Fred Phelps is so angry he must be gay. And the gays would agree with my assessment. They’ve always said that people who criticized gays are also gay. Hence, the gays agree with me that Fred is one of them.

Of course, this is all bad news for the obviously gay Phelps who says that gays are going to hell. Maybe he forgot to read Matthew 7:3 about “the log that is in (his) own eye.” And maybe that log is big enough to build a log cabin for two. Or start a campfire on his personal Broke Back Mountain in hell.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Mike Adams is a criminology professor at the University of North Carolina Wilmington and author of Feminists Say the Darndest Things: A Politically Incorrect Professor Confronts "Womyn" On Campus.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to receive Mike Adams' column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
Fred Phelps is no
Christian. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
I am no fan of Heath Ledger, but Fred's behaviour is more offensive than Heath's ever was.

As an Australian, I can corroborate Mike's assessment of the effects of outlawing guns in Australia.

I think everyones problems could be solved if Fred and company were allowed into Australia and misdirected into a very hostile environment. Plenty of those around.

Plenty of places around where getting out with a severe beating would be at the "great" end of the possible outcome continuum.

Or possibly directing Fred and Fiends to some desert location with no food or water.

Not often I agree with Mike Adams!
Phelps would be creamed!

In all seriousness, thank you Mike Adams for placing some limits on anti-gay behavior. It'll be interesting who comes out of the woodwork in the comments.

Crocodiles need to eat too
Maybe Phelps can help out.

MIke Adams
You are every bit as despicable as Fred Ohelps. Your columns and your obvious hatred toward gays is similar the Phelps', your medium of spreading your hate is different.

The ending of your column shows how your are as vicious and meanspirited as Fred Phelps. You are in same business of hatemongering.

Fred Phelps gives bigots like you a gandy excuse to claim that because we're not using the same language as Phlepls we're not haters. You're as disgusting and people like you are vastly more dangerous.

Like Doug Giles who fantasized here openly and in great detail about beating up a gay man, you conservatives endorse violence and hatred toward millions of your fellow citizens.






rufus you just don't get it
75% of the time Mike's columns are satirical in nature. In addition to that, the majority of his columns usually have to do with bringing out racist and unfair behavior typically among institutions that claim to be socially unbiased. All Mike is doing in this article is pointing out that we all have problems, and for one man to condemn an entire country for the issues of some random people is rediculous.

Romans talks about how we have righteousness through faith in the Father. But it also talks about how we should not go on sinning because the revelation that brought us to that faith should change us.

This mans belief in Jesus does not give him a free ticket to spew terror in any way he see's fit, which is exactly what he is doing.

Sorry, Justin, it is you who doesn't get
it.

Adams' columns, when it comes to gays, are uniformly offensive, at least to this gay man. I give him some latitude, and I recognize I'm coming at his columns from the point of view of who I am, but I find his columns about women only marginally less offensive (if at all).

I'll also grant that his columns are less offensive than, say, Doug Giles, and pretty much on a par with Matt Barber, but he's still waaay over the top.

I can't say I share Rufus' outrage at Adams' closing remarks, but you do have to wonder why Adams has to make a Brokeback 'joke' in these circumstances.

If Phelps does come to Oz (very doubtful, IMO), I'll be on the charter flight from SYD to PER that will no doubt materialize to prevent him from playing his little game.

If Mike s Adams represents the GOP
It is no suprise that Hillary got 100k more votes in the Florida primary than the GOP winner without even campaigning. Likewise, in SC Obama got more votes than both of the top GOP candidates combined.

His brand of bigotry and small mindedness no longer have luster with the American voter, certainly not the young.

smug little hypocrate
Maybe the "gays" are a little angry because Phelps and his spawn have been causing pain and misery to the families of gay people for years and years before anyone bothered to notice. Mike surely wouldn't have written a column about this if the "family" still picketed Aids patients and victims of hate crime.

Mike, you're a walking oxy-moran. You devote a column admonishing a known gay basher and in the process toss in a little gay bashing yourself.

idiot.


Justin
So when conservative vomits insults like Adams or Ann Coulter, it's satire?

Phelps' cult
is certainly not Christian since he violates every premise of the Bible.

That being said, for those of us who are Christian and condemn homosexual behavior as sin, we are attacked as heinous. It is homosexual behavior that is indeed sinful. It is not bigoted or intolerant to identify a perverse behavior for what it is. For all those who whine about "orientation" not being chosen, even if that was true the point is that behavior is ALWAYS chosen. Homosexual behavior is wrong and every "gay" and lesbian person knows that.

However, this does NOT mean that we should treat these people any different from adulterers or other sexually immoral persons. And that means they should have no special rights based on their sexual proclivites, which is, after all, what the activists always seek.

Thank you, Bluepiper
You just proved my point.

You are using religion to justify your bigoted views. Homosexuality is not a choice. It is a physiological manifestation. Homosexuals have as much control over who they are attracted to sexually as heterosexuals are. In the latest research medical scientists have found that their are significant hormonal differences between heterosexual and homosexual men that effects brain chemistry. Of course Christians such as yourself with dismiss this altogether because it would show how misguided your beliefs are.

Just want to say thank you once again, Bluepiper, for proving me right.

CHEERS! :)

Ah! poor bluepiper.
Sorry, mate, but the consumption of mushrooms is sinful. It is forbidden to eat (eat!) the House of the Lord. The Great Elf has so written.

Clearly, eating mushrooms may be inherent, but that's not the issue. Eating mushrooms is a _behavior_ and that is SINFUL. That you, a potential mushroom eater, should forgo the taste of enoki, shiitake, chanterelles, porcini, whatever, is neither here nor there. You can always eat brussel sprouts like the rest of us, you pervert.

Eat mushrooms and you will not only die. You will saute forever.

Ozgar
If Phelps and Christians think they could get away with it I am sure they would kill and assault every percieved Homosexual out there. Christians can be just as violent and hateful in their religious zealotry than any other religion. History has shown us that.

Hey Rufus
Why don't you climb down off that cross.

Xians _can_ be?!!?!?
No, Mike. Sorry. As you correctly point out, they have been. And in the case of Phelps (at least!), still are.

The only thing that keeps them in check is the rest of us. The people who have some semblance of reason and tolerance. (How would they like it if I said they had the right to believe, but not to worship? See how long _that_ lasts.)

I still (though I give allowances for time zones) await the xian's repudiation of Phelps and Adams.

I won't be holding my breath :(

jnik is right
Somehow, I missed this. But i agree wholeheartedly.

"Phelps is only saying the same things conservatives and Christians like most of the columnists on this website say; he's just less subtle about it. Where WAS your outrage when he was "only" picketing funerals of AIDS and hatecrime victims? I'm glad he's out there to show the true face of Christian conservative America. Here's hoping he manages to represent our country Down Under."

Mellors
(Wipes away a tear) That was beautiful man! I wonder, How does one concede so much? Amazing......

Cue the morons
You turn up, once in a while, and make a drive-by post, always with the same foolishness.

Here's an idea: Take your 14-year-old brain and stick it where the sun don't shine.

Oh! Wait! Too late! Same thing.

What the F&*)8?
How about letting the family bury him in peace?
I'm a life long Republican, but I care more about my country than who is sleeping with whom.

Phelps is a whack and needs to be put out of business.

Hi katy: A question for you
You may say you're mean, but that's not what I see.

My question: Why "but", as in "I'm a life long Republican, *but* I care more about my country than who is sleeping with whom." Why should those be in conflict?

I always thought Republicans (think Goldwater) left people alone to do as they choose, and to meet with their god how they those?

Why should you say 'but'?

Mike writes...
"The Jews had Hitler and the Nazis.
African Americans had the Ku Klux Klan.
Homosexuals have Phelps and Christians."

Evidently, Mike has never bothered to learn the definitions of Christianity and Christian, so I'll help him: Christianity, by definition, is the teachings of Christ. A Christian is, by definition, one who follows the teachings of Christ. Mike, if you can cite just one example in Christ's teachings in which he advocates hatred or violence toward gays or anyone else, I will renounce my membership in the Christian Church and join you in railing against it. A homeless bum can call himself a millionaire; that doesn't make him one. Similarly, someone who behaves in a manner diametrically opposed to Christ's teachings is no Christian, whether or not he claims to be. So I would rewrite Mike's examples as follows:

"The Jews had Hitler and the Nazis.
African Americans had the Ku Klux Klan.
Christians have liberals."

Mellorian logic, etc.
That was the possibly next phact to bring up: Islamaniac treatment of gays. But the resulting "conclusion" makes little sense. To hijack an old line of Menachem Begin's: Muslims kill gays, & they come to hang the Christians. But then, it *is* sometimes stated on TH that Xians are the only group it's now acceptable to slam in polite society.

When did I ever propose to "allow the crazy people to dictate the rules?" (Hint: I didn't.)

As for your allegedly polite non sequitur--since it's not on paper, I ain't gonna do Shi'ite with it.

Mike: Generalizing about what "Phelps and Christians" might want to perpetrate would be useful if you could relate the two--like, say, "the Pope & Catholics." But I don't know of any Xian outfit that has much regard for the PHellpsians.

You *do* need to invoke history in order to make points about violence from Xians, because they're just not that good at it anymore. With at least one salient exception, few religions seem to go for that. But even Islamania would find it hard work keeping up with the *Communist* cults' record.

Too bad we have to argue over Hellboy. I suspect most of us secretly wish someone would put him & his preachers of perdition out of our misery.

Excuse me,gender benders...
...and Mike Adams also,but I see no difference between Phelps and the annual San Francisco "gay" parade except that the "gay" parade attracts much more favorable publicity than Phelps does.Of the two extremes,Phelps is the less offensive to me.

Deviants are those people who deviate from the norm in a major way.The homosexuals who protest at Catholic schools and churches only differ from the Phelps of this world by being much larger and obnoxious than the ten or so followers of Phelps.And yet,the Homosexuals of this country would brand all Christians as Phelps followers.


How wrong Oliver is!
Homosexuality was quite accepted in Greek and Roman cultures prior Christianity's influence.

I am not for Homosexuals to get special rights. I am for homosexuals to get equal rights. There is a difference here. Let homosexuals marry, let homosexuals openly serve in the military, and the like. Just like heterosexuals can.

Just for Doug
I define a Christian as those who claim to be membership of the Christian religion (either Protestant or Catholic) and the Christian faith.

bryce3
Good morning. I am disapointed with McCain's win, slightly prefering Mitt. I did notice that although Hillary got more votes than McCain, somewhat over 200,000 voters had voted for a republican candidate overall. That will make it tough for Hillary to win florida in November.

Gotta go. Its a day at school today.

oliver
I don't really care about the religious crap nor traditions. This is the 21st century, not the 19th. If a hetero can marry the one he or she loves then a homo should have the same equal rights to do the same.

Also Oliver...
If you knew anything about history you would know that the Greek culture was subsumed by the Roman Empire and the Roman Empire fell after Emporer Constantine I converted to Christianity. It was Odoacer the Scirian, commander and elected King of the German troops who deposed Emporer Romulus Augustus 151 years after Christianity was accepted by the Roman Empire. Know your history and stop spouting ignorance.

Give it up Oliver
You have been proven to be ignorant and a bigot. You will be ignored by me now. Stomp your feet and cry as much as you want. Have a pleasant life.

Great Mike,
You write of the "head lunatic" which is right btw, and it seems you drew more than a few of them here. Hey Savage99, why did you blow bryce3s spin out of the water? You probably ruined more than one troll's day! LOL

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can not have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just wont matter!
YES I am still writing Freds name in the box!
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINOs!!!

Wow,
there are a bunch of mean, angry, mentally disabled characters posting this AM.

I guess I am too, because I truly believe that Phelps and his clan should be eliminated any way, any how.

Did some of you
read the same article that I did? Or is it your hatred for the christians that great that you only acted like you read this article, then started spewing your ignorant talking points that christians would hang all gays if they were allowed to. Bigots? Look in the mirror!

SSGT
I can only go by my personal experience with Christians and by the last 2000 years of history. Certainly there are a few Christians that wouldn't but by and large a lot of Christians are against giving homosexuals equal rights.

Mike
you are a bigot to the enth degree. You justify it by a history that you nor any of us live in. You can spin it any way you wish, but you are one of the biggest bigots on this site. Just face that fact, and you will sleep better at nights.

Mike
"let homosexuals openly serve in the military."

I beg to differ for two reasons.

First of all, the US military comprised the healthiest section of the American population. They have to be. Mandatory medical and dental appointments ensure it. Homos are the most diseased-ridden segment of the American population and are now being hit with that "Super-bug" through their unsafe sex practices. I wonder how much time, effort, and money, not to mention disability payments, that would cost us.

Second, it's discriminatory. You'd have men who love men showering up with...men but you'd exclude us "breeders" from showering up with what we like...women. Unless of course you propose creating field showers with individual stalls, etc.

Mike, Rufus and the moral bigots
I love how you say that opposing the *act* of homosexuality is wrong then accuse others of bigotry. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

If homosexuality were physiological then simple genetics would have removed it from gene pool long ago. Did you skip science class in school?

I love people such as these two who wield political correctness as some type of new-age religious teaching or something. In other words they make up their morals as they go along, then criticize others for using the Bible. What a laugh.

There is plenty of evidence which backs up the view that homosexual lifestyle is much worse from both a physical and mental standpoint than a heterosexual one. But I am sure those two aren't much about results but more about fighting those evil Christians.

Who can we string up?
I'm a bit slow on the pick up, but isn't the point of the article to demonstrate that it is acceptable in society to encourage the lynching of Phelps and other like minded Christians (or whatever you want to label them) yet that same sentiment directed at gays (or whatever you want to label them) is taboo.

Mike and others
google Composite U.S. Demographics. You under the GLBT comprise 4,300,000 or 1.51% of the U.S. population. And you expect 98.49% of us to bend over backwards to give you what you want? Thats asking quite a bit, don't ya think? Or do you think at all. Its obvious by you bigoted views here, that you think 2,960,000 of us should just drop what we believe and let the GLBT have all that they want!

Thank God for Dead Soldiers
The blessing of America is that people like Fred Phelps can speak and our courts can stuff a rag in their mouth. Phelps has lost court challenges to his right to picket at funerals.
Ohg
http://thefiresidepost.com/2007/11/01/thank-god-for-dead-so ldiers/

Bluepiper is right on....
Rufus - DO NOT - lump ALL Christians and Conservatives in one basket. You do YOURSELF no favors by doing that. I am very offended that you and others here do that - that is VERY Wrong. Phelps is no Christian in my view. Jesus forgives the sinner - go and SIN NO MORE! Phelps is wrong and one of these days he is going to tick off the wrong people and probably be no more. He has a vendetta, but, do not worry. God will take care of him and his ilk in His own way. Just as he will take care of me and Rufus.

HAHAHA!
"If homosexuality were physiological then simple genetics would have removed it from gene pool long ago. Did you skip science class in school?"

WRONG!

Homosexuality is part of our physiology, as it is with others in the primate genus. Nothing is simple when it comes to genetics and to think otherwise is being stupid.

MellorSJ2
"But" is not a qualifier. I do believe that people should do their best for this country. I've yet to see that from the Democratic party.
I'm also a life long Roman Catholic,BUT, this doesn't give me the idea that I can dis someone else's faith.

skiddles @ 18:25 yesterday wrote
"Fred Phelps is no Christian. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing."

Are you sure he even bothered putting on the sheep's clothing***?

Katy @ 06:17 today wrote "Phelpsians need to be put out of business"; it appears to me that this is exactly why Adams is in favour of letting Phelps go there--as this would farm out the job of doing so to the Aussies.




***I remember hearing a testimony from a Manipuri official of his turning to Christ where he stated "...you've heard the expression 'wolf in sheep clothing; well, I was a wolf WHO DIDN't BOTHER putting on sheep clothing".


Check him out before condemning him
As a liberal I despise Fred Phelps, and I was surprised to find Mike so hostile to him. Mike's views on gays are a little less extreme than Phelps, but only a little, and his obsession with gays is certainly in Phelp's league.

However, what I'm really interested in here is issuing a challenge to conservative Christians on TH to visit Phelps's website and read his lengthy piece called "God loves everyone-the greatest lie ever told." Click on "Written" when you reach the start page and you'll find this 94 page pdf which identifies 710 passges, drawn from the Old and the New Testaments, showing the extent of God's hatred, and refuting the "God is love" idea in Christianity. Phelps explains these texts and thus presents a doctrine that I think conservaties Christians need to be aware of.

Either a conservative Christian can do a better job than Phelps of "proof-texting" (as religious scholars call it) or conservative Christians should start taking Phelps more seriouslsy than they tend to do.

To put it plainly, Phelps is one of you--a conservative Christian, who can document his beliefs in Scripture. Can you refute him? Or is he really close enough to your own views so that you should acknowledge him as as ally?

SSGT
I am not saying give these people more or special rights. I am calling for them to have equal rights. We are all US citizens, are we not?

Using your train of thought, Caucasions out number ever African American, Native American, and Hispanic citizen therefore it is alright to deny these people equal rights.

I think we both can agree that it is not. Equal rights for all!

Whats even more humorous
is the fact that Adam's is showing what a stupid moron Phelps is, and the Bigots turn it into the christians wants all GLBT hanged or killed.

SSGT
The first and foremost thing I have learned in my life on this miserable lil' mudball of a planet is that the human beings are a violent species and if they are given free reign to attack an indivdual or group that have been deemed "different" they will.

To knight_of_baawa
Its not just Christianity that does this. Any form of religious zealotry does this to a person. it doesn't matter if it is Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, or whatever.

look
Dr. Adams is no supporter of gays (and I’m no supporter of Adams), but he is no Phelps. Phelps has reached that comic book level that would be truly funny if he wasn’t a real person. That being said, it’s fair to question whether Adams would care if Phelps hadn’t started going after dead soldiers.

Otherwise, I find one clear error. Moore was not being anti-gun in “Bowling for Columbine”. He was speaking out against gun culture (hip-hop and militia), the media and Hollywood. All of which have been popular conservative targets. Recall the scenes shot in Canada where he showed gun ownership as natural, common and completely safe.

Also for skiddles
On your suggestion "Or possibly directing Fred and Fiends to some desert location with no food or water".

Have you read the Left Behind prequel series on the rise of Carpathia (to position of Antichrist)? At one point in it, the flaw of the suggestion is revealed--Carpathia is taken by Old Nick for 40-day total fast and then brought back to Bucharest with greater power.

But that leads to another suggestion; how about appointing Phelpsians as envoys to deal with the AQ/Taliban and sympathisers in FATA? As the Phelpsians (last I checked) certainly aren't Muslims, they wouldn't be returning anytime except in microscopic pieces.

the christian answer to Fred Phelps
Conservative christians are not the same as Fred Phelps, nor do they share his beliefs.

Yes, we regard homosexual acts as sinful, but no more so than any other sin. Adultery is sinful, lusting after your neighbor's wife is sinful, sex outside of marriage is sinful, lying is sinful, taking God's name in vain is sinful, stealing is sinful, and so on. However, that does not mean that we are on a crusade to wipe out, harass, or persecute sinners in any way.

The truth of the matter is, Christians are sinful. Every christian faces temptations and struggles with sin. We are human, after all. What separates us from anyone non-christian is that we have accepted God's grace and forgiveness and are attempting to live as God would have us live. We continually strive for holiness and perfection, but we will never reach that goal during our lives here on earth. Only when we die and go to heaven to be with God will the shackles of sin finally fall from us.

(continued in a later post)

Please remain focused on the topic
I live by the rule, "to love the sinner and despise the sin". This is easy when you come to the realization that we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. As a Christian, I realize that I am no better than anyone else, only that I am forgiven.
While the practice of homsexuality is an abomination in God's eyes it is still a sin. The overwhelming majority of perpetrators were themselves victims of this sin. What a tragic and vicious perpetual cycle this sin has become.
Never would a true Christian support violence upon another human being expect in self defense or in the defense of another.
What Mike has written is satire. What is, I hope, gross exaggeration to be seen as humorous while trying to make a point. If we began killing every sinner based on some scale of worst to least, the last man alive would still have to commit suicide. Thank God for his grace and the gift of His Son.

mike's losing it
mike writes that people critical of gays must be gay, which if logic serves me right, mike = gay. Also, has anyone cared to look at the homicide rate in Australia with their "restrictions on gun control" compared to that of the United States?

Steve
I have always viewed the Judaic-Christian vision of God as being a little narcissistic. He created a race of people to venerate Him. To give glory to Him. When they falter, in His view, He punishes them. No matter how much one strives for perfection one will fail, yet the Christian God will accept nothing but perfection unless you bow to His own "perfection."

"Look at me, I'm so pretty!"


Mike
equal rights usually comes with voting in individual states for issues put to them. It is not hate saying "man and woman" for marriage. Its belief in their christian backgrounds. Therefore, these states put it to votes. Sorry, but the minority in most states lose the marriage issue. Civil unions on the other hand, are not contested near a vigorously. I don't care how anyone live their life. If they want unions so they can get healthcare, or benefits that regular marriages have, thats fine with me. But don't tell me that marriage between man and man, and woman and woman is normal. 1.51% popularity sais that it is not the norm. 50% would say different.

Ignore the temper tantrum.
Phelp's temper tanrums need an audience and he is only looking for attention. He doesn't deserve the attention and should simply be ignored.


Mike's Father
Is that how your earthly father treats you?

Me thinks your view of the Christian God is jaded.

Mike
"Homosexuality is part of our physiology, as it is with others in the primate genus. Nothing is simple when it comes to genetics and to think otherwise is being stupid."

Again you confuse terms. Either it is physiological or psychological. If it is physiological it *must* have genetic origins, or are you saying an infection or certain diet causes it? I can tell you it is not the natural state of affairs, a large chunk of our makeup is for procreation.

If I have an urge to take my neighbor's car should I do it because thats 'who we are'? No I am a higher being than a animal who cannot see the greater picture so I *choose* not to do it.

Dear Mike
As usual, you obfuscate the point with talking points. I don't think that very many Americans, regardless of background, appreciate the idea of homosexuals as "persecuted minorities". First of all, as has been pointed out, they are well less that 2% of the population. That extends worldwide. Secondly, the concept that deviance is somehow genetic (and therefore on par with skin color) is not only offensive, but absurd. If there was ever a "homosexual gene" (due to some random cosmic ray, I guess!) then how does it get passed down to other generations?

Perverts don't procreate. They only prey. That's because they are mentally ill. They are pathetic people who have thrown away their human heritage to perform rancid simulations of sex with themselves and innocent victims. It's what they live for and, thus, what characterizes them. They are not persecuted. They are defended against. Any loving parent knows why.

Thus, the Christian faith condemns homosexual behavior. However, true Christians also seek redemption for their neighbors. That does not come from mindless "toleration" or offering false excuses. It comes from accepting God's Word and turning from the dark path of degeneracy... which leads to Hell.

The Westboro "church" is not Christian. Christians of all persuations (and especially us who are veterans) despise their conduct and hope that, like homosexuals, they'll come to repent their past and rejoin decent human society.

the christian answer....part 2
Continuing from my last post:

Christians are not commanded to hate sinners. We are commanded to love even our enemies, that God's love might be evident through our actions. God loves all people and desires that all be saved.

That does not mean that we should tolerate or turn a blind eye toward sin, just that we should not condemn sinners. It is not an act of bigotry to want moral standards and to want to enforce moral standards. It is an act of bigotry to condemn a sinner as something less than we are.

Fred Phelps is the walking textbook definition of a bigot. He clearly is inflamed with hatred toward gay people, and does his best to condemn them and persecute them. That is bigotry in action.

Voting for laws that protect the sanctity of marriage, however, is not bigotry. That is simply an act of voting in accordance with your beliefs, which all of us do.

Too many liberals get away with twisting the meaning of "bigot" in an attempt to discredit conservatives and christians. To all of you, get this straight:

BELIEVING SOMETHING IS WRONG DOES NOT MAKE YOU A BIGOT. IS THAT CLEAR TO YOU? ONCE AND FOR ALL, ARE YOU CAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING THAT?

Thus endeth my rant for now.

Mike
"The first and foremost thing I have learned in my life on this miserable lil' mudball of a planet is that the human beings are a violent species and if they are given free reign to attack an indivdual or group that have been deemed "different" they will."

Would you label the "8 is too late" group as "different" or should they be allowed to ride that civil rights ghost train right into Main Street station.

Just ask the ACLU and they will tell you how they love protecting the rights of convicted pedophiles to hang out at public parks to watch the children play.

sigh
phelps isnt a christian as jesus's message was one of love. Of course wackos can manipulate words from the bible or any religous text to justify anything they want to.

To equate the behavior of a few with the behavior of all is ignorant and foolish at best. To the homosexual on this site the odds are the so called Christians you have had experience with where members of the extreme factions most Christians love you they just don't like parts of what you do with your life. And can you name anyone that likes everything about a person?

Liberals Hate - Pure and Simple
Liberals are always calling republicans, conservatives and christians hate-mongering homophobic bigots. And they do this by spewing hatred, sometimes in the most vulgar manner.

Most of what liberals say are just variations of mantras. It is usually the result of not being able to present and intelligent opposing argument. It's kind of like the kid on the playground whose response to criticism is "oh yeah, well you're a big jerk."

I don't hate homosexuals. I do not fear them either as "homophobia" translates to and I happen to be a conservative, a republican and a christian. I do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle, and all the liberal blathering and insult spewing certainly isn't going to change that.

By the way Mike, God does not expect man to be perfect. It may come to surprise you that he actually forgives man for his sins. Even you.

Antigay industry
I would suggest anyone who is interested in the antigay industry in the United States to buy this book: "Holy Bullies and Headless Monsters"

Here is the authors website:

http://holybulliesandheadlessmonsters.blogspot.com/

deviants
I like this definition of deviance given above. "Deviants are those people who deviate from the norm in a major way." It kind of ends the debate since homosexuals are different from the majority in major ways, they are by defintion deviants.

Or to take a different example, Jesus was without sin. That marks him as different than the majority in a major way. Therefore Jesus was a deviant. By defintion yet. Isn't argument by defintion cool?

Some people
jnik writes: Phelps is only saying the same things conservatives and Christians like most of the columnists on this website say; he's just less subtle about it.
=================================================

As a reminder to uninformed - Fred Phelps is a life long DEMOCRAT. In 1992 He headed up fund raising events and was a contributor to Al Gore's run for the presidency. Al was so impressed with his dedication he visited Fred in his home in Topeka.

He seems to represent the far left liberals more than the conservatives. He's against the Iraq war and feels that America deserves its losses and feels his protests are justified no matter how insulting.

moose
Adams isn't losing it. He is just incapable of going through an entire column related to homosexuality without attacking homosexuals. The passage that you are pointing to is meant to be a bitter satire of the way that homosexuals argue. But as with most of Adams columns he is accurate enough as to how his opponents argue for his satire to have much sting to them.

the christian answer...part 3
One of you posed the question of what exactly christians are doing to oppose Fred Phelps.

For the record, many christians have denounced Phelps and his activities. Do your research before making such a blind assumption.

That being said, I would throw this question right back at you: What exactly are you doing to oppose Fred Phelps? As Christ said, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Well, sir(s), you are casting a stone at christians when perhaps you should be throwing one at yourself.

Aside from that, what would you have us do? Anyone with even a scrap of reason would realize that what Phelps and people like him want more than anything else is confrontation. They want people to come out and oppose him so that he can fight back and attract attention. The best thing to do with people like him is to not pay any attention, other than what is necessary for physical protection. Imagine if he went out shouting his filth and no one so much as looked at him or even seemed to notice he was there. Soon enough, he would be gone.

Gestell
You stated, "To put it plainly, Phelps is one of you--a conservative Christian, who can document his beliefs in Scripture."

No, Phelps is not one of us. No, he cannot document his beliefs in Scripture.

Phelps (and you) mistakenly take passages fron the Bible out of context.

Phelps (and you) need to read what the Bible actually says - all of it.

You make a blanket statement that is no more correct than if I take quotes from dailykos and say that all liberals believe that. After all, it can be documented.

lunatic fringe
As Christians it seems we are constantly having to explain lunatics like Phelps. It is hard enough to preach the Gospel in a spirit of love in ideal situations where the Holy Spirit has opened people's hearts to at least hearing the Good News with a good attitude. Then the wackos like Phelps come out of the woodwork and confirm thousands of atheists and agnostics worst fears or suppositions that all Christians are like him just by his words and actions. Oh well the Lord said his church would survive even the gates of hell against it. I just wish idiots like Phelps didn't give the rest of us such a bad reputation and make our job of evangelizing that much harder.

Clueless...
"Check him out before condemning him

As a liberal I despise Fred Phelps, and I was surprised to find Mike so hostile to him. Mike's views on gays are a little less extreme than Phelps, but only a little, and his obsession with gays is certainly in Phelp's league.

However, what I'm really interested in here is issuing a challenge to conservative Christians on TH to visit Phelps's website and read his lengthy piece called "God loves everyone-the greatest lie ever told." Click on "Written" when you reach the start page and you'll find this 94 page pdf which identifies 710 passges, drawn from the Old and the New Testaments, showing the extent of God's hatred, and refuting the "God is love" idea in Christianity. Phelps explains these texts and thus presents a doctrine that I think conservaties Christians need to be aware of.

Either a conservative Christian can do a better job than Phelps of "proof-texting" (as religious scholars call it) or conservative Christians should start taking Phelps more seriouslsy than they tend to do.

To put it plainly, Phelps is one of you--a conservative Christian, who can document his beliefs in Scripture. Can you refute him? Or is he really close enough to your own views so that you should acknowledge him as as ally?"

Phelps theology is called Calvinism...There are five major tenets of Calvinism notwithstanding his views on homosexuality...The problem is the bible refutes these five major tenets...

What I find particularly interesting is all those who claim to be either Christian or make comments regarding Jesus Christ teachings really dont have a clue what the scripture teaches. I think I saw one individual post that even comes close to what the scripture teaches.

Wait a minute
I think there has been some misconceptions about anomalies in the human genome. There are behavioral preferences or tendencies that appear in humans despite any breeding patterns. Hand preference is one. There is no evidence that having few or no “lefties” in several generation will result in no left handed children. The trouble is that as much as we know, there is even more about genetics that we don’t know.

Fred Phelps
is the true face on conservative Christianity. At leash he doesn't lie and claim his vicious hatemonegring to be stemming out of Christian "love" like Dobsons and Falwell. Adams like other Christians didn't say one word when Phelps desecrated the funerals of gay men of people who died of AIDS. You remained silent because your precious Christian "love" encourages everything that hurts and injures gays and their families. Only after they started picketing funerals of soldiers you suddely found your "christian" conscience.

But then lying is second nature. The goal of Christian politiocs is simple: it aims to hurt gays as much as possible. The more pain you're able to cause to gays and their familier the better you feel about yourselves.

Wilson54: don't you worry. Phelps is beneficial to you. Your language anmd actions of hate look mild compared to Phelps but you're actually causing much more damage to gay lives.

Christians are abouit oppressing and persecuting gays and should they be given power to do it they would destroy gays without any mercy.

Rufus
most of the country didn't say anything about Phelps because he didn't really get any attention until he started protesting the funerals of soldiers. More to the point how do you know there wasn't any word against Phelps where you listening. Phelps is a blight to Christianity and should burn after dieing a long slow and painful death for the hated he promotes.

I now condemn everything Phelps has ever said and everything he has yet to say (given that it is unlikely for him to every give up his hate).

Phelps is in no way beneficial to Christianity and I have no idea how you came up with that idea.

Correction
Steve writes: Aside from that, what would you have us do? Anyone with even a scrap of reason would realize that what Phelps and people like him want more than anything else is confrontation.
=================================================

Fred only wants "protected" confrontation. He's out there marching around at every event held at the Topeka Expo Center - everything from "Treasures of the Tzars" to the last Monster Truck event. However he stays the **** away from the gun shows - wonder why?

now you're an ididot
That was the best you could do?


Markg
Look, as a conservative christian, I despise Mike Phelps too. He is not one of us and I am not as he is. His hatred towards gays is despicable and vile.

However, your hatred of christian conservatives is not that much different than his hatred toward gays. You just have a different target.

Do you have any christian conservative friends? Or does your hatred towards us prevent you from associating with us?

??????
Rufus writes: The goal of Christian politiocs is simple: it aims to hurt gays as much as possible. The more pain you're able to cause to gays and their familier the better you feel about yourselves.

================================================

Really? I think you give yourself way to much importance. Being gay might be the number one thing on your mind, but you being gay doesn't even register in the top 20 of what's important to rest of the population.

chr335
Rufus is just displaying the same type of hatred he supposedly condemns. It is that simple.

LOL!!!!
SIC 'IM, MIKE!

Joe McCarthy Column
I don't know how many of you read the column on Joe McCarthy yesterday by Ms. Schafly or followed the comments thread in response to it. One of the commenters, a liberal, found it necessary to bring up that one of his assoctiates was gay, and went on to criticize him for that. None of the conservatives found it relevant to point out this association so it was not even part of the thread until the liberal mentioned it. Targeting gays wasn't even part of what McCarthy did.

The hypocrisy is laughable. The gay lable is a bad thing unless it is being applied by a liberal.

Rufus
you are a hate filled bigot! You have absolutely no evidence what so ever to back your claims that all christians want to exterminate gays. If that were the case, based on Phelps, then I can say that all gays act like the ones I see on the news at a San Fran rally with their tu tu's on and paint all over their mugs. Is that how all gay people act. If so....there you have it!

Lon
Isn't it funny how all mike lovers come to his defense by saying "satire"? Not all of his columns are satire.

Markg
I DON'T HAVE TO "CHECK OUT" PHELPS' MATERIAL TO KNOW HE IS AN EVIL HATE FILLED MAN AFTER HIS GROUP HARASSED THE FAMILIES OF THOUS AMISH GIRLS KILLED IN THAT SCHOOL HOUSE A WHILE BACK HE AND HIS FOLLOWERS PROVED THEMSELVES TO BE AGAINST EVERYTHING THE CONSERVATIVE MOMENT STANDS FOR.
AND LETS NOT FORGET THEM WANTING TO PROTEST THE FUNERALS OF VICTIMS OF THE VIRGINA TECH SHOOTING. TAKE YOU IGNORANT COMMENTS ELSEWHERE TRASH

Thanks for TownHallers
It is very nice to see that in fact Adams does not represent the GOP.

bryce3
And Fred Phelps does not represent all conservative christians. None that I know at least.

cardiacmont
I have no "earthly" father. It was just my mother and I, and no one else. I learned to take care of myself, to come to my own set of values, of what I consider right or wrong, independent of our so called society.

How's this as an option? Leave "marriage" to the religions and remove it completely off the law books. When it comes to legal matters and government laws, taxes, and cotrols have every union, regardless it is man and man, woman and man, or woman and woman be treated exactly the same as a Civil Union.

This way the Christians (and other religious people) can have their marriages in terms of their religious traditions. Homosexuals can have thier equality. When it comes to legal matters and taxes they are all Civil Unions. That is all I care about. Each US citizen being treated equally and fairly regardless who they are.

Mike
How's this as an option? Leave "marriage" to the religions and remove it completely off the law books. When it comes to legal matters and government laws, taxes, and controls have every union, regardless it is man and man, woman and man, or woman and woman be treated exactly the same as a Civil Union.

All for it but take it a step further and benefits or penalties for civil unions and marriages

liberal bigots
It's funny how the liberals who post their comments here will rant and rave about the supposed bigotry of all christians and conservatives and never seem to grasp the irony of what they say.

Steve
No one is seeking to remove rights from Conservatives or Christians.

Yeah, but
Bob writes: bryce3
And Fred Phelps does not represent all conservative christians. None that I know at least.
=================================================

Fred seems to represent a broad swath of the democrat party though.

wrong
Mike writes: Homosexuals should be allowed to be in the military, and allowed to be open about their orientation. Hell, heteros are allowed to be open about their orientation.

=================================================

Actually hetero's are supposed to keep it in their pants too. How exactly does announcing your sexual orientation forward the goals of a professional organization like the armed forces?

what rights?
Mike writes: Wednesday, January, 30, 2008 11:17 AM

"Steve
No one is seeking to remove rights from Conservatives or Christians."

Exactly what rights are Conservatives and Christians trying to take away from anyone else?

Hockey Goon
LOL. Good one.

Mike's Values
Mike:
"I have no "earthly" father. It was just my mother and I, and no one else. I learned to take care of myself, to come to my own set of values, of what I consider right or wrong, independent of our so called society"
------------

Fine with me, do what you want. Now quit using our language, and get off our internet.

Hmmmm....
cardiacmont: What is that suppose to be? Some sort of flame? Its a pretty weak one to be sure.

Steve: To deny homosexuals equal rights as heterosexuals. You seek to keep homosexuals from the same rights and priviledges that heterosexuals enjoy such as marriage and being able to serve openly in the military.

Hockey Goon: Only when on duty. Off duty a hetero can pretty much do what he or she wants, within the bounds of the law. You be surprise what my hetero shipmates did while on shore leave when we visited Hong Kong and Sydney. Unfortunately if a homo gets caught doing the same level of debauchery he or she gets kicked out almost immediately. For Heteros, as long as you make it to muster all is good. Of course there was when our department head missed muster on our last day in Hong Kong... The captain was not happy.

Mike-Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
"No one is seeking to remove rights from Conservatives or Christians."

Ha, you are a funny one.

Have you been to a High School graduation lately. The student's rights to publicly praise God at the graduation podium is constantly being attacked even though the student is protected under free speech.

And then there is the Christian military chaplains unable to pray in the name of Jesus because it may offend other religious groups (in spite of the fact that those other religious groups have their own chaplains representing their beliefs).

There are many lobby groups out to eradicate Christianity and use whatever means necessary. The courts. Lawmakers, education etc... to get the system to slowly adopt change in favor of removing all traces of religion from the public eye. "Ten Commandments", "Under God" from the pledge, "In God We Trust" from US currency, Public prayer in schools etc...

"No one is seeking to remove Christain beliefs." Ha Ha. Funny comment.

I've thought
for some time that more harm has befallen the human race in the name of religion than anything else, but it appears that weenie wagging, in all its glory, is coming on strong.

Consider this...
Most of what my old man wrote is just more ad hominem, ad naseum. But one thought occurs to me as I read his self-righteous, self-serving patter. Up to now he has heaped vile, hateful rhetoric on Heath Ledger and his family, portraying Heath as a thoughtless, insensitive, sinful, vile vessel of satan. Now, when it serves his twisted purpose, suddenly the old man does an about face, imputing to the now dead Ledger some bit of altruism by suggesting he would want to warn his family and the world about the reality of hell.

What a crock! But not at all out of character for my father. His rhetorical world is full of cruel blacks and whites until he can twist reality to his purpose by injecting a bit of grayness. Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. Either Heath, and the rest of the world, is ONLY evil, or not. If not, his entire twisted, inimical jeremiad collapses.

Mike
No flame at all. You want to be independent, don't be half assed about it. Get after it. A good father would have taught you that long ago. I'm sad for you.

western bondbeam
That is just maintaining a separation of church and state. Public schools are funded by the state therefore inappropriate for religious veneration. This is for all religious beliefs, not just Christianity therefore Christianity is being treated equally with all other religions.

Your point on Military Chaplans, if true, is wrong. I have a firm belief that all should be treated equally and if Christian Chaplans are treated in such a manner then it is wrong and should be rectified.

I am for complete separation of church and state. One should have the freedom to practice their religion, but the state, in order to be fair and equal to all it governs, must be unbiased towards any religion, including Christianity.

Margaret Thatcher
Total BS on your part. I was in Wyoming when the Shepard murder happened and the uproar against Phelps was loud and clear.

You will find it easier to rewrite history someplace where it won't be challened.

God hates Nobody.

God hates no one, but he's pretty pissed off at Phelps.

Mike, you're wrong
You say that no one is trying to deny rights to christians?

Look around. There are liberals across the nation who froth at the mouth like rabid dogs whenever a christian exercises his freedom of speech.

A student in high school can wear a t-shirt that is pro-abortion with no problems. He will probably even be commended for his "insightful" opinion.

Let a christian student wear a t-shirt that says "Choose Life" or something to that effect, and he will be lucky if the liberal activists, teachers, and administrative people don't tar and feather him and run him out of school on a rail.

separation of church and state
There is no separation to be found anywhere in the Constitution. Check it out, you won't find it.

Secondly, a student's right to free speech does not go away at the high school entrance. The administration cannot promote a particular religion, but a student is free to express his opinions in whatever manner he or she sees fit, and the school may not infringe upon that student's right to free speech.

That has been proven time and again with court decisions across the country, and if you want the citations for those cases, I will look them up and provide them.

Margaret
You see how easy it is to criticize Christians but any criticism of gays is taboo?

I wrote earlier:
"... article to demonstrate that it is acceptable in society to encourage the lynching of Phelps and other like minded Christians (or whatever you want to label them) yet that same sentiment directed at gays (or whatever you want to label them) is taboo."

Thanks for the demo.

Mike, You Pleasantly Surprise Me
I've been unhappy with you lately, but I'm glad you wrote this article.

Fred Phelps is a lunatic, and unfortunately the gay community looks upon conservatives as cookie cutters of Fred Phelps. We're not. Not even true Christians, which I know you are, are not bigoted and hateful like Phelps. Fred is one of a kind. A maggot.

There are bad apples in every bunch, and it's easy to bite into a bad one and be turned off all together. If we handled life and people like this, we'd be turning our backs on entire societies, and we'd be losing out.

Good article. You've made me like you again, not like you care, but I thought I'd mention it.

Steve
Get it right. Its Pro-Choice, not Pro-Abortion. I am not calling Pro-Life Pro-Overpopulation.

After that nitpicking I personally have no problems with a someone wearing a pro-life or a pro-choice shirt at school. Its no different, in my ever so humble opinion, than wearing a rockband or sports shirt. It would only be inappropriate in schools that have a strict dress code, such as the use of a school uniform, which everyone has to equally abide to.

I am also not against children praying, in private, in school if they so wish. However doing a school wide prayer, forcing everyone regardless of religious views, is wrong.

Hell, I know a few Pro-Lifers who are pro-lifers not because of religious reason but for secular reasons and would wear such clothing.


Margaret Thatcher
I didn't even hear about Phelps group until they started protesting military funerals. I couldn't protest what i didn't know about. Course i was maybe 12 or younger(don't remmeber exactly which year it was or if it was even in the news) at the time and could have cared less about the news.

Steve
That is one amendment we do need in the Constitution. A complete and total separation of church and state. Your point on free speech, back with the t-shirts and prayer (if done in private) I particularly wouldn't mind one bit. Also thanking one's deity in a thirty second speech I wouldn't be against either.

The only thing I am against is if a particular religion is mandated by the school administration and teaching staff in a school that recieves state funding.


There is a Conflict
Steve is somewhat right. When a student is making a graduation speech, he or she should be free to reference God in whatever way he or she wants to. On the other hand, Steve is somewhat wrong. A graduation ceremony itself, which is a school function, should not involve a prayer or any other religious activity.

And Steve is conceptually wrong on teh big issue. WHile teh words "separation of church and state" do not exist in the Constitution, the concept of separation surely does exist in the Constitution. At least ,that is what the SCOTUS has determined over the years.



??????
Mike writes:Hockey Goon: Only when on duty.

For Heteros, as long as you make it to muster all is good. Of course there was when our department head missed muster on our last day in Hong Kong... The captain was not happy.
================================================

So by your own example acting in an unprofessional way - even in as a hetero the officer was disciplined. Was you reply an attempt to refute my statement or are you now agreeing?

rufus and mellors
Mike's columns are offensive to gays at times? -gee I don't give a rat's - well you're more familiar with the end of that phrase than anyone

Now I get it
Mike writes: Get it right. Its Pro-Choice, not Pro-Abortion. I am not calling Pro-Life Pro-Overpopulation.

================================================
I guess I'm pro-choice since I choose life.

moose
Many of Adams columns are done as satire. Satire can be a cutting political tool, but it requires work. You need to be capturing something real about ones opposition for it to be valuable. Otherwise