Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Wednesday, November 28, 2007
Mike Adams :: Townhall.com Columnist
Hooked on Ebonics
by Mike Adams
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


To Whom It May Concern (sswadm@usc.edu):

I was searching for scholarships at USC and found the following information on a "Black Alumni Association/Ebonics Support GroupScholarship" at The University of Southern California. In order to be eligible, one must be a "currently enrolled USC African-American." You also note that "undergraduate and graduate students are eligible" for the award of $500 to $3,000.

This is distressing because I am white but I am, nonetheless, fluent in ebonics. Would you consider making an exception?

Mike Adams

----

To Whom It May Concern (sswadm@usc.edu):

I am in receipt of your auto-reply “response” to my request for information about scholarship opportunities at USC. I had an opportunity to visit the Social Work Department's home page. Subsequently, I searched for "ebonics" and found this document.

Unfortunately, it still does not answer my question. In fact, I have some new concerns about your student groups, which are referred to as “Social Work Caucuses.” Your department handbook says the following: “The caucus structure insures that any and all student groups have an opportunity to establish a mechanism to have a voice in the overall operations of the School.” I have my doubts about that.

Among your list of groups are the “Asian Social Work Caucus,” the “Black Social Work Caucus,” the “Latino Social Work Caucus,” the “International Social Work Caucus,” and the “Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, Transgendered Social Work Caucus.” I am wondering whether you have a “White Social Work Caucus” or a “Caucasian Caucus.” If not, is there any interest in starting one, which may or may not address the specific needs of white social workers who speak ebonics?

I thank you in advance for your non-automated response.

Mike Adams

-----

To Whom It May Concern (sswadm@usc.edu):

Once again, I am in receipt of your auto-reply “response” to my request for information about the Social Work Department at USC. I hope you will respect my request that all future emails be written by a real person in direct response to my concerns. I have more since I last wrote to you.

In examining your “Scholarship Listings and Other Sources” I noticed that you offer a specific scholarship for Asian Americans. In fact, you offer two. You also offer a specific scholarship for African Americans who speak Ebonics. And, finally, you offer a “Mexican American Alumni Association” scholarship for Hispanics. (There is also a reference to a scholarship from the “California Association of Black Social Workers” and one from “Trabajadores de La Raza” – one I did not understand because my second language is Ebonics, not Spanish).

And, yet, you offer nothing for a Caucasian – not even a bi-lingual Caucasian, unless, of course, he (she or it) happens to be bi-sexual.

This is unacceptable and I demand a personal response.

Mike Adams

----

To Whom It May Concern (sswadm@usc.edu):

I am really getting tired of these automatic responses. Could you please answer my serious inquiries about your program? Ever since the outbreak of wildfires in Malibu, California, I have felt a calling to give up everything – my job, my home, and most of my gun collection to come help white California liberals who have lost more in recent weeks than most people gain in a lifetime.

Given that I am bi-lingual, though not bi-sexual, I feel that I have more to offer than the average applicant who speaks only one language. Given my linguistic diversity, I would be ready, willing, and able to extend help to those in minority communities once white liberals in Southern California are back on their feet again.

Please take my inquiries more seriously than you have to this point.

Mike Adams

----

To Whom It May Concern (sswadm@usc.edu):

I be really getting tired o' deez automatic responses. Could ya please answer muh ma f****n serious inquiries about yo' program? Ever since da outbreak o' wildfires in Malibu, California, I gots felt uh calling ta give up everything - muh ma f***n job, muh ma f****n home, an' most o' muh ma f****n gat collection ta come he`p whitey California liberals who gots lost mo' in recent weeks than most peeps gain in uh lifetime.

Given dat I be bi-lingual, though not bi-sexual, I feel dat I gots mo' ta offer than da average applicant who speaks only one language. Given muh ma f****n linguistic diversity, I would be ready, willing, an' able ta extend he`p ta those in minority communities once whitey liberals in Southern California iz back on they feet ag'in.

Please take muh ma f****n inquiries mo' seriously than ya gots ta dis here point.

Mike Adams
Word!

----

To Whom It May Concern (sswadm@usc.edu):

I hope that in this final missive you will be convinced that your Ebonics Scholarship for blacks is among the most deeply offensive and racist programs offered in higher education – and that is really saying something. For years, conservatives have been trying to dismantle “liberal” government programs that encouraged blacks to remain poor, uneducated, unemployed, and, for women, pregnant out-of-wedlock.

Now you want to reward blacks for using improper English, which will surely be to their detriment in any respectable field – though not necessarily in the field of Social Work. Shame on you! And shame on your filthy racism.

The next email you receive will not be from me. It will be from my friend, Benjamin. He’ll be inquiring about the absence of a Jewish Social Work Caucus at USC. He has friends in the ADL. I’m told his second language is Hebronics.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Mike Adams is a criminology professor at the University of North Carolina Wilmington and author of Feminists Say the Darndest Things: A Politically Incorrect Professor Confronts "Womyn" On Campus.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to receive Mike Adams' column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
Oh Snap!
Mah dawg Docta Adams iz takin it to da foolz! He ain't frontin yo, dat man iz da real deal.

Ebonics?!
Good column, but you flunk ebonics, Mike.

Hooked on Ebonics? Funny!

You know, I just don't understand.

Black activists make a big deal about the way movies used to portray black people, talking with a stupid-sounding accent.

And then they turn around and stand up for the rights of black youth to speak like Step N Fetch It.

wow
I couldn't stop laughing. Thats the best kind of column...ones that are hilarious and yet so true. Great work.

The Lunacy of the PC College Left!
USC and other "higher" learning institutions take this stuff seriously! And the dumbing down of America continues. UNABATED!

It's reached epic proportions, btw.

The jokes made by Mike and TH writers are spot on. But the fools at USC think the stupidity of this useless crap is relevant. Or to put it another way, "I means theeze jive fooz, theeze jive m---er f-----s are jive."

Wow. And I never took one "ebonics" class! Amazing!

The great Bob Grant would say, "It's sick out there and getting sicker."

He'd be right on target.



I'm astounded.
I absolutely believe Mike's info, and am amazed at the sheer stupidity & racism of university faculty, staff, organizers, alumni, etc.
The word "university" used to stand for higher learning, something to reach for. What happened?

Crotalus...
...give Mike a break...some folks just speak a second language better than they write it. ; - )

Can I get a scholarship
for speaking Adirondacs? Low class people call it Hillbilly, but it is in fact derived from Shakespearean English and students of linguistics find it impressive that the Scotch-Irish who brought this dialect to the mountains of the South have retained its purity over the centuries.

I spent a summer living in the community and can slang with the best of them, and I am surprised that the people in that community insist that their children learn to speak the Kings English for dealings with the outside world. And in point of fact, my office sent those of us with recognizable accents to a class called Git The Souf Outcho Mouf, because our international clientele could not understand a word we said. The class was clearly designed to remove Ebonics but it worked very well on my Bugs Bunny Bronx too.

And all this time I thought the purpose of language was to make oneself understood! I demand a scholarship for us Maroons from da Bronx!

Hilarious
Fo' shizzle

Modern Slavery
During the era of slavery it was against the law for slaves to be educated,by keeping slaves illiterate it made them easier to control. Any slave who showed the least amount of individual drive or desire to better themselves were called "uppity" and quickly dealt with. The modern liberal has followed the same pattern but with more success than the slave owner ever dreamed possible.
By convincing blacks they are not smart enough to compete in our academic environment through lower standards of accomplishment and dumbed down tests liberals have effectively led blacks into a modern self enforced slavery. Instead of a klaven of KKK running around dealing with the "uppity" blacks they have conditioned blacks to bring down there own with charges of "unauthentic","Uncle Tom" and"oreo". They no longer have need of overseers with whips, they have Black "leadership" to quickly denigrate and vilify any blacks who believe themselves capable of success independent of the new age plantation created for them.

5 stars!, liteside, perfect analysis!
Liberals are the worst racists of all time as they have convinced blacks that they are helping them, when in reality, they are simply keeping them in a place where they think that they need the liberals generosity to live in poverty as second class citizens. In fact, they have convinced them so well, they demand to be treated as second class citizens and anyone that actually expects them to achieve their potential is the racist! Incredible!

There may be an underclass
of blacks that thinks this is acceptable, but I doubt very seriously that the majority of blacks in America feel this way. I attended a very multi-ethnic high school back in the mid 70's, Carson High School in Carson, CA. Most of the families I knew did not think it acceptable to talk this way. I don't think the term ebonics had been coined yet. It was considered jive or "talking black".

I do find the institutionalization of this tripe indicative of liberal statists deep seated, subconscious, racism. Their elitist attitudes permeate every facet of their social agenda and show just how superior they think they are then "them poor darkies."

Sad. Truly sad.

A white caucus
If there isn't a need for a white caucus, there is need for a lower-class white caucus. Such people are made to feel privileged, even though they are from the bottom half economically.

remember the movie
'Airplane' in the summer of 1980? Remember the super white lady (I think it was Beaver's mom) who could talk the talk? That's what this article reminded me of.

Funny

Save
yo heat to pop a cap mike.

That was June Cleaver
and she spoke "jive"!

Right On!
This article is absolutely priceless.

lifeside, FROG
Black conservative writers, many of whom appear at TH, must find this whole matter disgusting.

AS ALL AMERICANS SHOULD!!!

Univesities across this country have become infested with liberal, PC garbage like ebonics. The cowards that run the schools are too afraid to speak out against it.

If the USC president had any guts he'd say this:

"Look, ebonics is nothing more and nothing less than a complete waste of time. It will be of no help to any student entering the real world. In fact, something so idiotic should not even be a matter for discussion."

BIG DEAL
Po dum fellers...I spek sevral langyougeses. I spek suthurn, rednek, stupjupper, hillbillie, passible sharcroper and am now lurning to spek craker!

Painfully Funny?
This expose of the liberal elite's racism would be painfully funny if it weren't so painfully true.

A "Caucasion only" scholarship
Mike,

Thanks for pointing out another lacking of Caucasion rights. Are you finally learning that a racism pointer can specify any ethnicity except caucasion? (I hate to say "race" since all of us are members of the human race and that should be all that counts)

By the way, did you get Jesse or Al's permission to speak ebonically?


Hooked on Eubonics
Mike,

When I was a Master of Social Work student at Arizona State University (1979-1981) I brought up the subject of why there wasn't a White Social Work Student club. There were Black, Latino, Asian and Native American Social Work student clubs.

I nearly got thrown out of the program! For the rest of my time at the ASU School of Social Work I was labeled a Nazi. Naturally, the students belonging to the aforementioned clubs weren't racist at all! (Nor were the professors, of course.)

One of our assignments was to write about our family's cultural practices. I wrote about how my family had come from Germany YEARS ago and had assimilated. My professor (a Native American) told me "White people don't have any culture" and I received an F on my assignment.

Apparently white people are automatically disqualified from understanding the dynamics of interpersonal/interracial relationships, public policy, the influence of heritage, etc. If the schools of social work could get away with it, I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped admitting white students altogether. (Unless, of course, they were marxist.)

By the way, I got fed up with all the bull crap of social work and am now a college professor in an altogether different field. There's still a lot of crap, but at least I get summers off from it.

Uncle Max
See a broad dat get all booty-eyed! Got to lay her down and smack 'em yack 'em.
(Early to bed early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise.)

SH*T!
(Golly!)

It is everywhere
Think about how Ebonics has infiltrated everyday life in, oh let's say, Australia.
There is a movement to stop shopping mall Santas from chortling "Ho, Ho, Ho"
WHAT UP WIT DAT?

I think the American public will only become REALLY upset when they are forced to purchase "Ha-Ha" snack cakes at their local supermarkets.

And there are many more examples both here and abroad, just take a look around.
(sorry if I offended any NOW members with that last line.......ummm No I'm Not!)

W/O=

Ebonics in Real Life
Last night I stopped on the way home from work to pick up a carry-out dinner order for my family at the local Taco Bell. A very polite African-American young lady took my order-and then proceeded to try to confirm what my order consisted of. Unfortunately, I could not understand half of what she was saying, and, after three attempts at trying to decipher what she was saying, I had to ask the shift manager to translate for her and confirm my order.
How tragic that this young lady, trying to earn a living and be a productive member of society, is handicapped by minimal language skills that was not corrected in her formative years at home and in school.
I do know that our local public school teachers are told to be "sensitive" to "alternative English dialects" and "unfamiliar sentence structure." Translation: Don't mess with ebonics!
Tragic!

Dats be so funny
Mizta Adams mah bro' dat be da mos' righteous rant Iz read since dat jury sprung OJ. Iz jus' got to aks, ho' you get so black since you be a white boy?

Youz da' Man, bro'. U be wasting yo'self at dat white man's univer-city, n****r!

words
. Words mean what you say they mean. If enough people agree you have a definition. Words that are spoken only to a small cohort of listeners tend to lose their original meaning quickly. Words that are written only tend to maintain their original meaning longer. Words that are spoken and written survive the longest. Having a literature helps words transcend generations and thus survive. Ebonics is not bad English, just a way of speaking that uses American English words. It is primarily spoken by a small number of people and does not have much of a written component:IE non-fiction periodicals and fiction. The effort by some to spread Ebonics is commendable even though some of their methods are not. If a literature evolves it will gain credibility, if not it will die out within a generation or two.

Too true to be funny
Some years back, the head librarian at our local public library branch advised me, "You 'posed to bin check the due date befo' you don leave the liberry."

I sent a letter to the director of the library system, pointing out that since our neighborhood is a polyglot of whites, blacks, Asians, Latinos and Middle Easterners that this kind of non-standard syntax did a severe disservice to my neighbors who were struggling to learn English.

Many months later I received a reply from the director's twelfth deputy assistant, lecturing me for my intolerance and informing me that the library supported the "growth of the English language."

I suppose the point would have been lost on her that this was not growth, but regression to the language of the plantation.

Where are all the trolls?
Hmm...

I haven't yet seen Lilly, knight_of_baawaa, traitorous republican, or any other of the liberal moonbat trolls that regularly pollute the comments sections here on Townhall.

Translated into Ebonics:

Wheh dose m**f*** jive fools be? Dose fools lak Lilly, knight_of_baawaa, traitorous republican, and alla de rest, dey sho nuff be illin! Dat gud, case den dose m**f**s dey sho nuff not be dissin me an yu. Sh*****.

Speaking of dialects ...
After we moved to Kentucky, I got in a warm discussion with my sons second grade teacher about homonyms. You see, my son corrected her, a second grader mind you, about her selection of homonyms. To her, the number ten and the word tin, as in tin foil were homonyms. At least with her Kentucky twang it was. I attempted to tell her that outside Kentucky, in the real world, 10 is not pronounced tin.

I had to correct my son once when we went to a local carnival and he saw a girl there that was on his teeball team. He said, "Daddy, Leeans here." I finally realized he was talking about Lynn whose name was pronounced "Leean" by his teeball coach.

Communication can be difficult at times when we're not all on the same page.

Just a Thought
I taught English for years so am unlikely ever to defend Ebonics but I did notice that the article said something about a school of social work. Could it possibly be that somewhere along the line somebody responsible for training social workers may have noticed that if you want to give somebody a message, you have to speak a language that he understands? A middle-class mainstream white social worker speaking standard English will not readily be accepted by a client who speaks and understands only Ebonics. If the social worker has arrived on the scene with the purpose of dissuading the client from smacking her three months-old baby upside the head for crying, sending her twelve year-old out to prostitute herself, and abetting her criminal boyfriend in his illicit endeavors, then being bilingual (yes, Standard English and Ebonics) as well as being black, may actually help. Goethe says, "What is thy duty? The demand of the hour." Otherwise stated: whatever it takes, Baby.

Steve ...
I only see Knight of Bwahaha post on articles dealing with faith. More particularly, Christian faith. He loves to spread his brand of tolerant atheism by attempting to display how intellectually superior he is to knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, Christians. He's oh-so enlightened.

mental ebonics problem
Folks who study brain technology know that spoken language connections to written/reading require logical mental connections that deal with constant rules of language.

Since Ebonics is a 'free spirited, free flowing, always changing to fit the inflection and feeling needs of the speaker, it defies the need for rational brain connections to reading/writing, even to the individual speaker of such an enhanced means of communication.

Folks who try to translate Ebonics into any rational language do so at great peril. No teacher should ever try to critique the Ebonic thought process in any rational language. The only way to respond is:

What dat meen in sum udder tongue?

Someone, tell me something...
Would someone please answer both of the following questions:

1. What, in the last 40 years, have the Democrats done that has had a real, measurable, positive effect on the state and status of black people?

2. What policies do modern Republicans favor that are actively racist, especially where blacks are concerned?

Doctor Adams
Pues, Gracias, hombre! Ju no, ese is da man!

Yo no gud en e-b-o-n-i-c-s, pero el spanglish es una chingadera, man! Y mi bro, too!

Anne
That post at 8:47 had me in stiches!!

I have to put "Airplane" in the DVD player now. FROG put me in the mood!!

Just too funny
Also just too sad.

Happy Jake
You can't just ask for blantant examples of racism from Republicans. You have to cite their "code words" for racism.

I recall back in the 1990s somebody like Jackson or Sharpton saying that the new code words for racism were "tax cut" and "welfare reform".

Because allowing people to keep more of what they earn is racist since this "keeps" it in private hands rather than in government hands that can redistribute it to poor blacks.

You have to DIG, man.

Anyone consider...
...that if it weren't for ebonics we wouldn't need social workers who speak ebonics, as that would no longer be a barrier to becoming successful in America?

Those who continue to legitimize ebonics do the people victimized by it no favors.

hey yo Lilly
hey yo Lilly, whassup? I be think dat yu bustin a cap on dis talk or illin case I ain't seen no f*** sign a ya.

I lak wat yu gots ta say, fo sho, fo sho.

I don' needs ta speak english, none a ma friens do, an maybe somun bus a cap on dem fools dat say I needs to speak not ebonics. ebody in my hood, dey all speaks ebonics, so why can't I? So what iffen I can't get a job or maks no money? I don't need no job fum da whitey, I mak lots a green fum sellin crack. Mebbe yu lak sum, ya coms to me an I git it fo yo.

Rob's response to Lily
Priceless!

Dr Adams' commentary
showcases the insanity currently prevalent in U.S. colleges and universities. Let's hope enough people continue to speak out against those who are preaching tripe such as whites are all evil racists. Maybe, just maybe, we can change academia for the better.

Frawg
Don't confuse poor spelling, lazy sentence construction and bad grammar with accents.

The proper way to say "ten" is "tin" and Kentucky is, indeed, pronounced "Kintucky". The state and the people are part of the real world.

Louisville, btw, is pronounced "Looahvul" like you have a mouthful of burgoo.

Frawg
Don't confuse poor spelling, lazy sentence construction and bad grammar with accents.

The proper way to say "ten" is "tin" and Kentucky is, indeed, pronounced "Kintucky". The state and the people are part of the real world.

Louisville, btw, is pronounced "Looahvul" like you have a mouthful of burgoo.

Thanks for the correction,
Scawlet. Howevuh, I have heard Looahvul pranownced Looville, sorta like a city of bathrooms across the pond in jolly old England.

Silly Lilly
Silly, you truly are a priceless liberal and never fail to confirm the liberal silliness you are entrapped in. "Reward bad behavior with further bad behavior" is one of modern liberalism's primary mantras and your suggestion to speak ebonics rather than proper English to an illiterate ebonics welfare queen is a classic example of irrational liberal "logic". My parents emigrated to this country penniless and speaking not a word of English. They received no welfare nor did they ever deal with what they had to do in American society in their native language (Slovenian). They succeeded through hard work and LEARNING ENGLISH - quickly. You may have been an English teacher but you obviously have no conception of the best way to learn a foreign language. Here's something for your clueless brain to grasp: the way to learn a language is to DO it exclusively - speak, read, write. A language is picked up quickest when one is immersed in it. If a welfare queen cannot get her government check unless she speaks proper English you would be amazed at how quickly she will learn!

You dem/libs with your mentality of keeping the downtrodden on their plantation are despicable.

LILLY

.....RE: Just a thought ...

.....Sorry to hear that you got lost in thought ...I guess it was unfamiliar territory .....COLOSSUS

JD's handsome son
As a minority, I concur with your post. It is embarrasing to me to have relatives ask me if I'm going to take advantage of welfare and other programs by pulling the "Hispanic" card. It kills me to hear young people using ebonics and hisbonics, since I know it's a detriment to them.

One young lady I worked with a few years ago always used the term "axed", instead of "asked". I finally blew up at the poor kid, and asked her if she wanted a chance at a higher salary. She stood there, and asked me what she did wrong. I explained, and she thought I wanted to take away her identity!! I told her her identity is defined by her actions, words and deeds, not the color of her skin.

She started to improve her vocabulary that day, and rose to management within a year.

I have zero tolerance for this sort of
BIGOTRY,that Adams is expressing along with is lap dog posters.

"I am wondering whether you have a “White Social Work Caucus” or a “Caucasian Caucus."

I don't know when culturally self-centered, culturally self-important, bigoted white Americans like Adams will understand the purpose of Multiculturalism. There isn't a need for a white "Social Work Caucus" or a "Caucasian Caucus” because whites, by sheer numbers, dominate most social organizations at most colleges, and the world in general.

There is no concerted effort needed to deal with issues that are important to whites, because the history, culture, and language of White Americans are accepted as the norm in America. What language am I writing in at this very moment? When one opens a history book, who is discussed the most? When I go to Washington Dc, who do you see statues of? It ain't Web Dubois I'll tell you that.


"is there any interest in starting one, which may or may not address the specific needs of white social workers who speak ebonics"


Well if history serves as any evidence, when whites have started "white social groups” or "white organizations”, violence and the cultural degradation against other cultures has accompanied it. So I'm sorry if “white organizations” don't have the same connotation as Asian, African, and Spanish organizations. Maybe if historically, they didn’t teach hate and bigotry, all while trying to kill and culturally eliminate those that were different from them, people would think of them differently.

for Lilly
Once upon a time I worked in retail (sold electronics) , and I was approached by a pair of young women of African ancestry who began to ask me questions about a particular television, in Ebonics. Whether or not she intentional in her exaggeratedly mush-mouth elocution, I do not know. Yet I finally asked her to repeat herself one too many times apparently, because she became frustrated and began to speak with nearly perfect diction. She ended purchasing a television and as she was walking off I overheard her talking to her companion and referring to *me* as the dumba**. The whole thing ticked me off at first, but then I considered that I had basically forced her to abandon her incredibly lazy mode of communication (ebonics, street talk, or what ever label you want to put on it) in front of her friend, and she probably lost "street cred" because of it. All I could think of after that was, "Tough sh*t Yo!"

The point is that if some one really WANTS help, they will make an effort to communicate properly and I see no reason to enable people to remain mired in a backward dialect when basic communication skills can even be handled by those with numerically low IQ ratings.

To Happy Jake
Re "What have Democrats done in the past 40 years that improves the status of black people": Democrats passed the Fair Housing laws. Can you imagine how it feels to be fully qualified to rent or buy a property and be turned away because you are black? Yes, this happened. All the time. "Sorry, that property has been taken," was told to black applicants. Then an agency would send a white person to inquire for the same property and, guess what, it was available. Then there was always, "You wouldn't be comfortable in this neighborhood." Or the neighborhood had a "restrictive covenant".

Democrats passed laws requiring restaurants and hotels to accommodate all customers, even black ones. "Sorry, we have no tables available." "Sorry, we have no reservations available." "Sorry, we have no vacancies". Try to think for a minute what that is like, always to approach a nice place expecting to be turned away. This used to happen routinely. Read, for example, about famous black performers like Louis Armstrong, who in the bad old days weren't allowed to stay at hotels where they were headline performers. They stayed with friends, or slept in their car or on the band's bus.

There is a Chicago joke (not so funny, really) about a black man who went to a famous restaurant, Fritzl's, back in the 1950's. "I am sorry, Sir, but we don't admit black people." "But I am not black," said the customer, "I am Spanish." "Well then Sir, I will have to ask you to say something for me in Spanish." "Adios, you son of a b****."

Used to be that way.

for Lilly
Once upon a time I worked in retail (sold electronics) , and I was approached by a pair of young women of African ancestry who began to ask me questions about a particular television, in Ebonics. Whether or not she intentional in her exaggeratedly mush-mouth elocution, I do not know. Yet I finally asked her to repeat herself one too many times apparently, because she became frustrated and began to speak with nearly perfect diction. She ended purchasing a television and as she was walking off I overheard her talking to her companion and referring to *me* as the dumba**. The whole thing ticked me off at first, but then I considered that I had basically forced her to abandon her incredibly lazy mode of communication (ebonics, street talk, or what ever label you want to put on it) in front of her friend, and she probably lost "street cred" because of it. All I could think of after that was, "Tough sh** Yo!"

The point is that if some one really WANTS help, they will make an effort to communicate properly and I see no reason to enable people to remain mired in a backward dialect when basic communication skills can even be handled by those with numerically low IQ ratings.

MOST modern liberals are racists...
... makes me ashamed that I once proudly called myself liberal.

JD's Handsome Son
"If I were a minority I'd be horrified at the thought that our government officially considers me inferior, so much so that it has to rig the rules and make allowances for me like some kind of special needs child"


That's not why programs that benefit blacks and other minorities were created. They were created because many bigoted whites, inherently thought blacks and other minorities were inferior, and for 300 years excluded them from equally participating in theses "yet to be United States". So blacks fought, died, protested and bled for not just equality, but cultural reparations, and got them, i.e. Affirmative Action, Civil rights Act, and the Voting Rights Act. It was called the Civil Rights Movement, maybe you heard of it, but then given your ignorant post, maybe not.

More Racist Garbage From Adams
"Caucasian" is a term that comes from the racist myth that "Mount Caucasus, both because its neighborhood, and especially its southern slope, produces the most beautiful race of men" (to quote racial theorist Johann Friedrich Blumenbach). It's a racist term and Adam's use of it shows how deeply his head is in white supremacist ideology.

It is an incontrovertible fact that the United States is a white/male-dominated society. It follows that white males don't need a "Caucasian caucus" or any such thing because they already occupy the vast majority of key positions in major US institutions.

Blacks, women, and other minority groups, suffer systematic discrimination in white/male-dominated societies, and this is no less true in the United States. To combat systematic discrimination, oppressed groups set up issue-oriented groups that exclude the oppressor.

White males such as Mike Adams hate this because they want to be able to keep telling minorities and women who can and can't associate with in issue-oriented groups - just like in the good old days when white men formally ruled over minorities (you know, slavery and de jure apartheid).

Frustrated, white men like Adams engage in racial harassment of these groups. People like this are determined to make sure nobody misses this point: they are racists.

Marksw
So your customer didn't understand that "if you want to give somebody a message you have to speak a language that he understands". If she spoke Standard English and was deliberately speaking to you, the white salesman, in Ebonics, then she was trying to make a point, call it political or social or racial or what you will: "I will force you to communicate in my language". Something like the English memsahib who forced her Hindi-speaking Indian servant (in India) to speak and understand her English. Or the present-day American who would force Hispanic immigrant children to speak only English. Language is the first power tool.

Set up a parallel. The Cockney accent in England has for long years been looked down upon as low-class. In recent years, it's kind of smart. People who can turn it on and off sometimes do so for their own amusement then watch the reaction of the person they're speaking to.

I did not realize until I was grown that I am fluent in two forms of English, Standard and sort-of-Appalachian, which I learned at my great-grandmother's knee. After I was grown I sometimes worked in a professional capacity with country folks from West Virginia, when I found myself unconsciously lapsing into a speech pattern with them that made me seem more like one of them. It's not all in words---some of it is in how vocal tones are used. I think maybe we all do this, if we can. I would not ordinarily say, "I know right good and well that she is a-doctorin' and her man's took too" but I understand the lingo and am so proud it's part of my heritage. And for some folks, Ebonics is carried as a second language. But I agree with you that there times to let this homey language stay at home. If we deny its existence, then we are making a power play of our own.

To liteside
You claim the familiar conservative ground that affirmative action expects blacks to be less capable than whites and thus deserving of a handicap for admission to schools. Can you possibly be aware that before affirmative action blacks were expected to be less capable and so were simply excluded? I know a man who, applying to the medical school at the University of Chicago in the early 1950's, was told by the Dean, in so many words, "It would be better if you apply to Howard or Meharry". How clear is that?

Antonty,
Stepped right into the trap didn't you?

To buzzkat
An adult American who speaks Ebonics at home has nevertheless been exposed a la Full Immersion Instruction every time he or she turns on the television, gets on a bus, shops at a supermarket, or (hopefully) attends school, even first grade. So the problem isn't that he hasn't been exposed. Language patterns aren't 100% imitated---some old patterns are retained, for all kinds of reasons. What would happen to an ambitious black kid who emulates the Standard English that he hears away from home and begins to speak that way, exclusively, at home? Language isn't just about talking to strangers---it's about belonging with the homefolks.

Some of the posts to this thread are about white Southerners speaking Southern, and white Southerners have raised hell for years because mainstream television announcers speak only Standard English. After the Populist Revolution of 2000 we had a rash of TV commercials spoken in a Southern accent. We are told even now that Southerners (and conservatives everywhere) will elect only a politican who "talks Southern". We force, or try to force, others to speak our way because it's a way of showing them who's boss.

BTW, since you brought up the subject, I speak and read two foreign languages.

LILLY

.....Being an English teacher you must be more proficient in linguistics than I ...so maybe you can help me out ...

....A young stud said this to me: "Ah pulverize an' bamboozle ...shake numb skulls like a boodle."

.....What the heck was he talking about? ...This is a test ...you will be graded .....COLOSSUS

The real Africans I know
speak english. With an African accent, of course. And they speak their own tribe's language as well as other foreign languages. They have not abandoned their languages for slanguages in their native tongue. In Africa, they speak properly as well, in their own language. So ebonics is neither "real" African based language nor english. It is slanguage. If you are working in the rap music, pimping, or street crime industries, then it is the appropriate language. Otherwise, it is not as useful in the rest of the world.

btw- the black people I know, who are "real" blacks, speak english and they don't have a problem with it.

JD's Handsome Son/Anthony Thomas
Son - two thumbs up! Thomas - two thumbs down!
"Multiculturism" has no bearing whatsoever on demanding that proper English be used and taught in any legitimate educational institution (or in any institution which purports to be so).

Spare Me!
Lilly's pseudointellectual blather is so predictible. She can't be serious. It's what you'd hear on a MadTV skit. David Chappelle does it so much better than you, Lilly.

Lilly, you are a joke and you don't even realize it. Unless, of course, you're in on it. Then you're a good parodist and the joke's on us.

Buzzkat
I think if you read my posts carefully you will find one theme: bilingualism is valuable. This isn't the same thing as keeping black folks down on the plantation or forcing them to speak nothing but Ebonics. It is recognizing that if a kid comes from an Ebonics-speaking home, he had better keep speaking Ebonics at home or he will be singularized and excluded by his familiars. Plenty of black people are fluent both in Ebonics and Standard English. Haven't you heard black actors like Eddie Murphy speak both? I just don't think little kids in school should be punished for speaking Ebonics among themselves during recess, any more than Navaho kids should be punished for speaking Navaho among themselves (as was routinely done in government schools for Native American children).

Every spoken language has active variants that connote class differences. Some people like to use these variants as a tool of control and even of sadism. We who know English pretty well pick up nuances in accent, choice of words, use of a particular slang, use of pedantry, all kinds of little messages between the lines (is he gay? a social climber? a show-off?). Often we do this to make ourselves feel superior.

I knew an elderly Argentine man who had lived in the United States for fifty years, working here as a professional. He was very scholarly and quoted something in Latin about every five seconds, and also spoke Spanish, Italian, and French. But he professed total ignorance of all American slang, appeared shocked when I served corn on the cob at dinner ("I cannot eat from my hands like an animal!"), and claimed he didn't recognize gravy ("Why is this sauce on the potatoes?"). There are many ways of being uppity. Language plays into a lot of them.


Not that we needed further evidence ..
... but the past two days discussion has pretty much confirmed that the ethically bankrupt "Anthony Thomas" is perhaps the stupidest homind who ever drew breath ... and that the sweetly well intentioned (but hoplessly befuddled) "Lilly" has become utterly lost in liberal group-think.

Sew togheter Tony's screed from the past two days and note that a full on Nazi would be hard pressed to construct a more blatantly "racist" line of thinking.

What is it about neo-comms? Is the party membership revoked unless you spew hatred and bigotry in a public forum?

Annoy a liberal ... treat all men as if God created them equal.


Play with Language
"the black people I know, who are 'real' blacks, speak english and they don't have a problem with it."

Some blacks have not only internalized whiteness but they openly judge themselves by the white normative standard.

Many other blacks recognize that African-American culture emerged and developed as forms of resistance against white domination. Resistance to oppression often involves playing with the oppressor's language.

White supremacists hate this because they find it insulting to the white race. The language created by white people is superior because white people are superior, and having inferior people play with the language of the superior people is deeply offensive to the superiors.

"How dare black people play with our language. They don't know their place. They are supposed to emulate us, not take control over our language."

For those of us white folk who struggle against white supremacy, it doesn't matter how black people use the white-created language. They can use the language anyway they want.

hal
"Multiculturism" has no bearing whatsoever on demanding that proper English be used and taught in any legitimate educational institution "

I wasn't specifically addressing so called "Ebonics". I was addressing the attack Adams made on Multiculturalism as a whole, and "JD's Handsome Son" ignorant uninformed post.

Just for the record, I don't understand, nor support so called Ebonics. The only individuals that bring stuff like this up are twits like Adams who look for any asinine reason to attack those who are different from him.

ebonics
other than a sub class using this street lingo exactly what purpose does it serve. It certainly won't help anyone get a job other than dealing with those fluent in such speech. Dr copsby has warned against the ability to converse in english and still this nonsense persists. However we have been informed that the missus clinton is also fluent in ebonics. But then again she caters to every victim and speacial interest group that with promise to vore for her in the coming election.

It All Comes Down to Role Models
It all comes down to who you want as your role model.

Did Martin Luther King speak ebonics? Does Justice Clarence Thomas speak ebonics? Does Thomas Sowell speak ebonics? Does Condoleeza Rice speak ebonics? Does Bill Cosby speak ebonics?

Young people of every skin color and ethnic background need to consider whether they are better off emulating such successful people who command respect from all -- black, white, whatever -- or emulating crooks, lowlifes, ne'er-do-wells, and such losers in the game of life.

Those who wish to succeed in life must speak the language of success. Those who claim that this simple requirement is too much to ask are patronizing, not compassionate.

Lilly
This is a secret......don't tell anyone....There is no such thing as ebonics.
It is a name given to banter from people who were too lazy to learn the english language while enrolled in school that spoke and taught only english.

Southerners
Lily, the reason Southerners get upset about folks making fun of their dialect and accents is that everyone knows Southerners are God's people. Jesus was from the southern part o' Nazareth and spoke with a pleasant drawl.

wwsword
As a career military man, I've had the opportunity to live in several countries, and I've always tried to learn a few common phrases in the native tongue. In Korea, Netherlands, Germany, and Iceland, the locals always offered a friendly correction when my pronunciation was a little off. I always thought they were just trying to help me....and also to help me avoid sounding like an idiot.

But now, thanks to your wisdom and insight, I realize they were just all oppressive racists who felt I was an inferior race!

You are the perfect textbook example of an ignorant liberal.

Icedog
First, your analogy is idiotic. Think before writing.

Second, I'm not a liberal.

Frog and Others:

Please learn the proper use of "then" and "than". I am aware you were brought up in some part, I haven't identified it yet, of the country where your friends and neighbors didn't know the difference. (Robert aka Roberta is a good example)

I am sympathetic to your distress, but really would appreciate a little more emphasis on non ebonics.
---------------------------------------------
"Then":
as an adverb: Subsequently or soon afterward (often used as sentence connectors), In that case or as a consequence, At that time

as a Noun: That time; that moment

as an Adjective: At a specific prior time
---------------------------------------------
"Than":
Conjunction: Conjunction used in "comparatives",
as in, He is taller than I.
---------------------------------------------
Your statement was,
""just how superior they think they are (then) "them poor darkies.""

It is comparative. Use "than" not "then".

IMHO


wwwsword, thanks
You and your ilk keep proving our point. You're an arrogant patronizing guilty white lib. No offense. Please tell my in-laws and the folks at my church that they are not authentic and that they are playing up to whitey. I'd love to see it.

I realize that reading comprehension is not strong with libs and that I may have been too subtle but my point in my post is that black Americans are Americans. Americans speak english. So any claims to belonging to somewhere else and, thus, making up their own language is just an excuse to be lazy - which is what makes YOU feel superior. You don't expect that they can master the language of prosperity instead of the language of despair and poverty. Give yourself a pat on the back.

Happy Jack! How 'bout this..
Name the president who appointed two blacks to the highest posts ever held by people of color in the history of the nation.

I'll give you hint. He's in office now!

ANTHONY THOMAS
.....Ay yo trip ...

....."im not that n!gga tryna' holla cuz i want some head/im that n!gga tryna' holla cuz i want some bread" ...

.....Who said that? ...this is a quiz ...you will be graded .....COLOSSUS

Anthony Thomas
Adams wouldn't be able to bring it up if USC didn't have a scholarship for people who speak ebonics. You call Adams a "twit" for bringing it up and then say that you don't support ebonics, but the fault lies not with Adams but with people, like those at USC (and lilly), who would perpetuate ebonics.

Mike Adams
Way to go, Mike. Finally somebody with some guts !!!!!!!

Frog and Others:

Please learn the proper use of "then" and "than". I am aware you were brought up in some part, I haven't identified it yet, of the country where your friends and neighbors didn't know the difference. (Robert aka Roberta is a good example)

I am sympathetic to your distress, but really would appreciate a little more emphasis on non ebonics.
---------------------------------------------
"Then":
as an adverb: Subsequently or soon afterward (often used as sentence connectors), In that case or as a consequence, At that time

as a Noun: That time; that moment

as an Adjective: At a specific prior time
---------------------------------------------
"Than":
Conjunction: Conjunction used in "comparatives",
as in, He is taller than I.
---------------------------------------------
Your statement was,
""just how superior they think they are (then) "them poor darkies.""

It is comparative. Use "than" not "then".

IMHO


Ignore the anecdotes
The posters on this topic who insist on putting forth their proofs as silly little anecdotes offer little to the discussion. Why should anyone care about your one Argentine friend, Lilly? It proves no point, except that you and others were slighted in your educational process regarding analytical thinking and logic. You should go back to your schools and demand your money back for their utter failure to educate you. They didn't earn your tuition fees.

There are reams of data which clearly demonstrate causal relationships between language development, socioeconomic class, upward mobility, employment, imprisonment, poverty, etc. This issue knows no race as is demonstrated by the recent data including "Gangsta" behavior and performance (a group of individuals of African, Spanish and Caucasian heritage show the same results when demonstrating the same behavior).

So get over yourselves with these silly little "Well I know someone with six eyes who speaks Hexaopthomologics..." because it doesn't mean a thing. Look at those data and either adapt to successful strategies or be content to live in your own personally determined squalor. But, please, stop blaming everyone else for your bad choices; and don't expect someone else to do for you which you are infinitely more qualified to do for yourself.

False Consciousness
ScarletPimpernel, unfortunately false conscious affects blacks, too.

But I need to correct a point you tried to make. In fact, only a minority of Americans speak English. Most Americans speak American English. There's are significant differences between English and American English difference. There are regional differences as well. In my home state of Tennessee, American English comes in many forms. Some people sound like our president, who speaks incorrectly according to the standard rules of American English. When I moved to Wisconsin I discovered people speaking a different variant of American English. Millions of Americans speak other languages altogether. Many speak Spanish, and there is a range of variation there. Many speak some variety of Asian languages (Central and Far East). We have millions of Arab and Yiddish speakers. We have Russian speakers. Some of the remaining native American still speak their native tongue. Members from all these groups can be heard speaking English and American English in ways that diverge from the accepted standard.

The United States of America is a nation of immigrants, some of who came here voluntarily, some who came involuntarily. We don't have a national language. We are a diverse and pluralistic country. It's part of our core identity.

Many WASP citizens butcher the language. If there was a requirement to speak American English correctly to be president then George W. Bush would still be knocking around Texas. Indeed, what endears him to so many white men is that he speak incorrectly. It confirms to them that he is one of them.

Students Are People First
When I retired, I retired from teaching, 12 years of High School mathematics in Atlanta. All my students were African-American except 5 over the 12 years. I taught high level math courses to students aspiring to enter and complete university level academic work. None of our students were ever encouraged to speak Ebonics either by me or the administration. In our school 70% of the teachers were African-American
and they spoke proper English and demanded the same from the students. How California can have a flood of University level African-American students either speaking or desiring to speak Ebonics is a mystery to me. Let me be clear, our school had lower level students generally from 1 parent homes located in the projects. These lower level academic achievers, by the time they reached high school, were hopelessly retarded academically. These students were so far behind, attended school so infrequently, lived in a home with little or no discipline/direction, that special programs could not be devised to catch them up and make them University ready. Everything in their life worked to retard them in thought and practice. Keep this fact in mind--students that graduate from high school on time are generally 18 years old and most have not been able to write a complete sentence in good format for more than 6 or 7 years, most cannot understand mildly complex mathematical concepts and a great number have only rudimentary reading comprehension or visualization skills. Their academic prowess is a product of the classroom process and one bad teacher can have a profound impact on the educational continuum.

agent crawfish
"but the past two days discussion has pretty much confirmed that the ethically bankrupt "Anthony Thomas" is perhaps the stupidest homind who ever drew breath"


What have I said that has been stupid? Give specifics please, and not just outlandish insults. Merely disagreeing with someone doesn't equate them to being stupid. I would guess you're not a child, so stop acting like one. If my arguments are so "stupid”, you should easily be able to discredit them. However, maybe you don't posses the intellectual capacity to combat them.

YLG. Anne.
YLG. Your first post was LOL funny.

Anne. Your 8:47 post. Priceless.

If Ebonics
Qualifies as a language, then Jeff Foxworthy can walk on ANY campus in America and teach Redneckese!

Adams is either a liar or a bad satirist
Ebonics is not taught in schools, colleges, or anywhere on earth. I honestly believe Adams made this scholarship up to make a point, and to attack blacks and multiculturalists. I clicked on the link from his article, and all I see is a bulletin for the school of Social Administration. at USC. Adams is a liar, and his witless satirical attempt to mock those he doesn't like or disagrees with, isn't funny and is offensive.

I mean, my god, even uneducated blacks don't care about Ebonics , nor do they discuss it in any social circle. No one discusses it. It's a non-issue, and nonsense.

Adams is just using so called "Ebonics" as a way to attack Multiculturalism and blacks. What a loser and unoriginal writer

DocTony
Well done.

Thanks, onceamarine ...
as you can already see, I'm no grammar expert. It's been a few years since I've had an English class and, well, I was never that polished then either. I also sometimes struggle with the proper usage of affect and effect. As long as you and Rick the quick edit experts are around, I stand to learn at least a little.

rednail47
Exactly! When did the word 'discrimination' become something evil?

It used to be a good thing to have discriminating taste. We use discriminators all the time. It's called choice.

If I choose to buy the fresh fruit instead of the moldy fruit, I am discriminating.

Discrimination IS NOT, nor should it be, EQUATED to Racism. This is just one example of how PCism has bastardized our language to a point beyond where we can actually discuss things in a reasoned an rational manner.

Anybody remember the brouhaha about the use of the perfectly good term "niggardly' a few years ago? I suppose, using that logic, I should request that they change the name of Ritz as the term Cracker offends me. NOT.

If linguists want to study different spoken dialects and record them for posterity (and for the movie and entertainment industry in order to have accurate portrayals) I suppose that makes some sort of sense. But to encourage such incorrect language usage in book form, or as a 'second language' is stupid beyond belief.

With all the denegrating remarks from the Left over the language challenges found with GWB, I'd expect them to carry their high standards to those the say they want to help.

If the ability to speak clearly, articulately and grammatically is an indicator of intelligence, then the universities, of ALL places, should raise the bar in this regard.

Since they are not, I can only conclude that their aim is not to educate, but to dumb-down our society further.

Mike Adams. I have to admit,
sad as it may be, that you've hit the nail on the head. Ebonics is a word coined by the failure of black parents to set rules of conduct and speech for their offspring. Once in school, without parental guidance, there is no pressure, nor do poor black students (with one or two exceptions) feel the need to learn further.

When I came to this country in the early 50s--before integration--most blacks I met spoke decent English. Now, with American teachers under constant threat of bodily harm in urban schools, and just trying to get through each day as easily as possible, the only path for students who can't escape to the suburbs is to go along with their peers, to ape them in every way. To not do so is to "act white."

It doesn't go without notice that the last basketball team to speak proper English was the original Harlem Globetrotters. But they lived in a time when blacks were conscious of their image. That doesn't seem to be necessary any more.

Mr. Thomas. It's obvious you don't keep
up with current events. Not too long ago there was an official movement here in California to make Ebonics an official language. The public outcry was quite strong against it, and the Sacramento legislature was forced to shelve the legislation.
BTW, it was proposed, if I remember correctly, by a black female legislator with the backing of various teaching organizations.

I'm sure you can look it up. Although possibly you'd prefer to call people liars rather than admit your ignorance.

Anthony Thomas
THIS COLUMN IS SATIRE!

Anthony Thomas
I read the article twice. Nowhere did I read where Mr. Adams says that ebonics is taught in schools.
He was referring to qualification for being accepted into a "social network" and requirements for earmarked scholarships.
Then you wrote:
"I mean, my god, even uneducated blacks don't care about Ebonics , nor do they discuss it in any social circle. No one discusses it. It's a non-issue, and nonsense."
You must have been asleep when black leaders not only acknowledged ebonics but attempted to make it part of the public school system in N.Y.C.

Question
Do the folks that speak Eubonics have to have a translator to go see an American made film? If not, then there is no excuse they cannot speak appropriately...they already have the language skills to understand.

wwsword
Not speaking the approved black language of ebonics means that people have a false conscious. Ok. I get it now. Thanks for your high-mindedness on this issue. Well, maybe these poor fake blacks will wake up and dress like Huggy Bear one day and be their true selves.

You're a hardheaded guilty white lib. Can you classify real Mexicans for us as well? I say that you are not white because you disagree with me.

The other "languages" you are describing are still english. The people come from here and are not trying to disown their native tongue. They are simply talking how they talk. They are not trying to get the rest of the country to officially recognize their dialects. The whole thing is silly. Of course people can talk however they want. They just shouldn't demand that others acquiesce to their desires for legitimacy.

baseballdoc
You 10:20 post....ROFLMAO!!! Thanks for the laugh out loud post today!

Anthony my guess is
You are a child ... or pretty close. By the tenor of what passes for "thoughts" you put out there I put you at no more than your early 20's, either in schoool (or working in one) and/or living in mommy's basement.

As for "proof" of your stupidity, I could simply refer you to yourself ... but that seems mean spirited. So I'll just point out that in your last post (cleverly titled "Adams is either a liar of a bad satirist") you claim the scholarship program citicized by Dr. Adams does not exits.

In a word ... wrong. (It takes about 30 seconds of internet research to establish that the scholarship/group does in fact exist.) Calling someone a liar without doing so much as half a minute of work to check their bona fides strikes me as pretty stupid.

Of course, you also stated that "Ebonics is not taught in schools, colleges, or anywhere else on earth." Which begs the question: if it is not taught anywhere on earth how is it learned and how does it persist? That's kinda ... stupid.

Yesterday you spent copious verbiage advancing the theory that culture equates to "race" which is also .... stupid.

Let's see what else ... oh yeah. You're a hack liberal dogmatic and a blatant racist. Yup. Yer stuck on stupid dude.

Specific enough for ya?

Annoy a liberal don't be stupid.

There is no Ebonics!!!!! What land do
you people live in?


After reading several post, I'm thoroughly convinced that Th posters and columnist live in the "bizaro world". Are you guys actually discussing "Ebonics" as if it exist and is a real social concern? You're making so called social and cultural criticisms about a program that doesn't even exist. LOl. Lmao. Are you serious?

Th columnist can feed you guys any garbage and lies for you guys to attack blacks. Did anyone bother to do just the simplest "Yahoo" search to find out if this program was actually implemented. Well just to let you know, it wasn't. It was a silly idea about 10 years ago that never gained momentum or support, even amongst African Americans!! What have you heard any black person talk about it? Never.

Obviously many of you have little if any contact with Africans Americans and know nothing about our ideas, thoughts, or way of life. You get your opinions from political and journalistic hacks like Adams and the like, and you swear your reading something insightful and informative. What a joke. Believe me, you're not.

Read this loud and clear: There is no EBONICS!! Stop talking about it and using it as a vehicle to attack blacks and others you disagree with.


As I said earlier, this article is either witless satire, or just a flat out lies.

Anthony, Mike Adams, here!
Yo Beotch! Before you called me a liar all you had to do was click on the link I provided to find the scholarship in big, bold letters. Why you bees so lazy, dog?


Word.
Mike S. Adams

Hey Tony From the USC Web Site
"Originally called "Ebonics", "Black Alumni Association" was added in 1988 ... the BAA- in addition to granting scholarships- is involved with the recruitment, retention, and mentoring of Black students."

Annoy a liberal fight racism

I must go, but I shall return for
more words on this subject.

Anthony Thomas
When will it be enough? We have had two black Secretaries of State, there is a black running for President, we have a black man on the SCOTUS...there are respected and sought out blacks on every level of society...What has to be fixed now?

Do I think racism is totally gone...of course not! But we are beyond the point where we can legislate it. And reparations are ridiculous!

Everyone has equal opportunity BY LAW in this country. The only person that is holding anyone back is themselves.

Get over it and join the USA. It's not just for 'whitey' anymore.

motley
one must wonder why anyone would defend stupidity. Or even worse why would anyone imitate stupidity or use it as some type of activity to be copied. As one poster to dr adams column yesterday stated. Young whites must suffer from self hatred if they are dumb enough to wear their pants below the a-hole and talk in the same sort of street lingo that hollyweird assures us all that blacks engage in. We can only hope that these types don't engage in the breeding ritual. But as they are so self indulged they probably don't really pay the slightest attention to what really goes on in life. Afterall knowing everything concerning the day to day happenings of hilton or spears has more importance than knowing what is going on it the world. Better the terminally stupid remain in their own pathetic world and leave running things to the adults

Hey Tony More From USC ...
"Special Scholarships at USC

Award: Black Alumni Association/ Ebonics Support Group

Who is ellligble: Currently enrolled African American undergraduate and graduate students.

Office of Black Alumni Program
Student Union 203
Los Angeles CA 90089-4890
213/740-8342"


Annoy a liberal ... check the facts.

forder

"Nowhere did I read where Mr. Adams says that ebonics is taught in schools."

Have you read some of your fellow posters comments? Apparently they think it is. LOl.


"He was referring to qualification for being accepted into a "social network" and requirements for earmarked scholarships"


Then why are posters attacking blacks and Ebonics if that was the point of his article? And the scholarship he references is completly made up, what was the point of that?

I see very few post about "social networks" and numerous post attacking blacks and Ebonics, a program that doesn't even exist. Did they miss the point of the article as well? Or do they just enjoy making fun of blacks?

Anthoy Thomas
"Read this loud and clear: There is no EBONICS!! Stop talking about it and using it as a vehicle to attack blacks and others you disagree with."

Hypocrisy?
In two Washington Times pieces, "Putting in your zero cents worth" (October 26, 2003) and "You say you want a revolution?" (January 25, 2004), Mike S. Adams argued against his University incorporating various campus groups into its non-discrimination clause. He said it was wrong. He wrote that he was upset that the College Republicans would have to allow non-Republicans into their organization. He said that this fundamentally violated the first amendment.

Yet, in the article he publishes today, he writes to complain about how he couldn't be a part of the program created to support Ebonics and to say that it is wrong to create a group that excludes opponents of Ebonics.

So it's okay in a white/male-dominated society for a group that represents white male interests to pick and choose, but it's wrong for a minority group that represents support for Ebonics to fail to consider allowing an opponent of Ebonics into their organization?

Aww T You Have To Play Fair
Tony after demanding evidence that you are stupid you got called out and presented with evidence that you are in fact really, really stupid. You called Dr. Adams a liar who made up the scholarship at issue and you were wrong.

And you don't even have the guts to admit it? Man that is just so ...... wait for it ....

stupid.

Annoy a liberal refuse to use LOL as a word.

Silliness
Should alumni associations not be allowed to form and offer scholarships to whoever they want? If the Council of Conservative Citizens wanted to offer scholarships to white kids (for all I know, they probably do) I would get my panties in a bunch about that.

Also, this column reinforces my strong impression that Mike Adams (with his absolutely pathetic attempt to speak 'ebonics'--I think he used one of those tired old 'speak jive' pieces of software that were funny and novel back in 1996), has never broken bread with a real live black person.

Mike Adams' problem is preferential treatment for black people, it's treating black people like people at all.

Anthony
If you could be "King for a Day" - with unlimited federal powers - what would you do to make things "equal" for blacks?

What must happen before we reach the point that you will view a black man's failures as his own doing and not the fault of history or racism?

Racism revisited
Now that Dr.(?) Mike has taken on how a private university should be run (USC) as well as how a public university should be run (UNC), he can justify his lack of intellectual integrity.

Ebonics and blacks sounds like a legacy or affinity issue to me. Should we abolish all legacy issues? How about white fraternities and sororities?

He is apparently against this. Or, even better, what about the exclusionary practices of inheritance? God forbid I should be cut out of Mike's will just because he wants his estate to go where he desires.

Money goes where the donor directs. From Mrs. Bush to her son Neil (sp?) to the lady who wanted a bell tower on my nearest UC campus. You don't like the ebonics requirement? Ban all affinity scholarships. Your diatribes and put downs are racist and indicate a lack of intellectual curiosity.


Anthony Thomas
You wrote:
Read this loud and clear: There is no EBONICS!! Stop talking about it and using it as a vehicle to attack blacks and others you disagree with.
Make up your mind. When black leaders were pushing ebonics to be a part of the N.Y.C. school system we were told that if we disagreed we were attacking blacks and others we disagree with. You said the opposite.
Just like a good little leftie, you said that if we discuss a topic, such as ebonics( a term introduced by blacks), we are attacking blacks and others. You are well trained.

Get serious
SP writes, "Not speaking the approved black language of ebonics means that people have a false conscious."

You are not so dumb that this is really what you thought I was saying. Please. You lost the argument. Don't add insult to injury by playing dumb.

animal girl
Shut up ho' and cook me some supper!

(Can I have my scholarship, now?)

Mike S. Adams

agent crawfish
"Originally called "Ebonics", "Black Alumni Association" was added in 1988 ... the BAA- in addition to granting scholarships- is involved with the recruitment, retention, and mentoring of Black students."


guys like you are truly dishonest individuals who use any means to attack those in which you disagree.

First of all, the organization you reference has obviously changed its name to the Black Alumni Association. There's a Black Alumni Association on almost every college campus in America. I was in one, and believe me it had nothing to do with Ebonics

Ebonics was a specific language pattern that some tried to have integrated in our schools. It never happened. There is no black on Earth or organization that promotes the use of Ebonics. None!

So if Adams wants to attack ethnic social groups that's one thing, but if he wants to recycle a silly idea to cater to his obviously racist base, and to mock legitimate Ethnic social programs, that's something totally different.



Animalgirl
Some groups have done just that, offering Scholarships for Whites Only and they were lambasted by their school and the press. They did it just to show how unfair it is to offer scholarships to people based entirely on race, and they got called racists for it. But it's ok for blacks, hispanics, asians, and any other group to only offer their programs to those of their race...

Anthony Thomas
You are either stupid or lying, or perhaps a bit of both. You say that ebonics doesn't exist and we at TH are all racists for saying that it does just so we can put down blacks. In fact, apparently blacks at USC seem to think it exists. You say Adams is a liar without even going to the link he provided and searching for the word "ebonics" -- which, if you did, would have shown you he was telling the truth. Then, when confronted with the truth, you skirt the issue. God forbid you admit you were wrong and didn't check the facts (you'd have to turn in your ACLU and DNC cards if you actually checked facts). And yet you wonder why some of us at TH have such a problem with you and think you're stupid... Dude, if you don't get it by now, I hate to say it but I'm afraid there's no hope for you...

Liberal Talking Point Detector:
I'm keeping track of liberal talking points...so far I have noticed the emergence of a few new ones. "why do you hate America?" and "Bushbot" is used across the board. To that I can now add "Bizaro world" Thanks!

In order to make the list, the term or phrase has to be apparent from more than one poster.

Anyone wish to add to the list?...it is liberal-speak, so we should document it. It is a precious language that should be preserved. Maybe we can offer a class in it soon.

A-train

P.S. Forder’s right. When this whole ebonics crap came up in California years back, people who said “what a minute? We’re calling bad English a whole new language” were called racists for not appreciating black culture. Now you want to say we’re racists for saying it exists… It gets confusing sometimes.

A better satire
Would have been to take on all affinity issues. But no, he took on blacks and SC (the University of Southern California, a private school that is not supported by tax dollars any more than your local academy).

So Mike would dictate what is taught in a private institution? Or he objects to exclusionary personal associations? Or he's a racist masquerading under the cloak of intellectual free speech.

Forder
"When black leaders were pushing ebonics to be a part of the N.Y.C. school system we were told that if we disagreed we were attacking blacks and others we disagree with.



How many years ago was that? Why are we talking about something that isn't even in debate anymore, and hasn't been for over 10 years! Tell me, when was the last time you heard any black person even mention Ebonics?

"You said the opposite"

When did I say the opposite? Are you equating learning about black history, Spanish history, Asian history and Multiculturalism in general to Ebonics? I don't get it



Mike Adams is Right, Anthony
Us Whities do need a Caucasian Caucus, and now more than ever.

Listen to you: "I don't know when culturally self-centered, culturally self-important, bigoted white Americans like Adams will understand the purpose of Multiculturalism. There isn't a need for a white "Social Work Caucus" or a "Caucasian Caucus” because whites, by sheer numbers, dominate most social organizations at most colleges, and the world in general. "

Wow....it's this type of stinkin' thinkin' and hatred from your multicultural universe (no whities allowed) that is making any White Heterosexual in this world a figure more hated than Darth Vader. Ooops, he's a black figure, but he was really white on the inside, so we're both to blame, right? Right?!

I say we need need White Entertainment Television, a White College Fund, a White College only! Let's bring back mulitculturalism with segration! Whites are special too! We need a special caucus to remind us how special we are.

A question for our resident libs
If you were in charge of scholarships at your local university, which of these factors would take priority?

A. Race and ethnicity
B. Character and demonstrated ability


Please answer.

agent crawfish
What page of the bullentin is this on:

"Award: Black Alumni Association/ Ebonics Support Group"

"Who is ellligble: Currently enrolled African American undergraduate and graduate students. "


I have to read this in the context that it's written? Because I have never ever heard about anyone getting a scholarship for the use of Ebonics.

BHL
USC receives $420 million a year in federal tax money....please learn to do a little research.

Animalgirl
Next time check your post before you submit it, since there should clearly be a "not" in your last sentence -- without it, it makes no sense.

And if you would read Adams article from a day or two ago, you would find that his problem is that liberals assume blacks are inferior and must be catered to. That's the "soft bigotry of low expectations" and if you read posts from many of the liberals on this board alone, you would know what he's talking about. Frankly, if I were black, I would be offended by all the white liberals assuming I'm too stupid to function in society.

lilly,AT...sigh
Why is it that you must always jump back 40 years when discussing race issues?
It speaks volumes about your perpetual 60's\70's mindsets.
That's the way it used to be; so that's the way it is now, only worse.
You insist on reading so closely between the lines that you can no longer discern the text.
I'm embarrassed to be white, are you happy
now?
Stop blaming white people for your personal societal shortcomings and get off ya'booty.

Ebonics a language?
How about I could declare IIT-English (edit: although I never actually attended at any IIT, I can speak that "lingo" fluently) as a language? It's a lot more useful in the IT and engineering world than "ebonics".

I mentioned this fact to an African American (both of us were renting rooms in a townhome at the time) who had been trying to push me to learn ebonics--he didn't get it at all; of course, he didn't understand that non-citizens (as I was at the time) cannot vote, and asked me whom I had voted for (Al Bore, Jorge Bush Jr., other) several times even after I'd told him that I'd "imaginary voted" (mentioning SPECIFICALLY about my then being a non-citizen) for a candidate entirely other than Bush or Bore.

Hmmm, so "Ebonics" doesn't ...
exist. Well let me ax you this, did we just imagine that it was all the rage several years back?

A-train
It's at the bottom of page 37 of the document cited. And now I think you're stupid because you don't know how to use the "search" function of Adobe PDF-reader to find out for yourself.

And, to save you the time, there is no context for the scholarship. That's why Mike was e-mailing to get more information about it.

10 years back?
Anthony Thomas complains that we are referring to the ebonics movement from a decade ago, and we're living in the past. Yet his motivation for affirmative action lies in events that happened 50 years ago. Inconsistency, thy name is Anthony Thomas.

OK Maybe you aren't stupid ..
... just kind of pathetic.

You wrote:

"guys like you are truly dishonest individuals who use any means to attack those in which you disagree."

No sir. I honestly pointed you two 2 specific examples published by USC that proved your contention Dr. Adams was a liar was false. That isn't dishonest or an attack. It's a refuation.

Then you wrote:

" ... the organization you reference has obviously changed its name to the Black Alumni Association. There's a Black Alumni Association on almost every college campus in America. I was in one, and believe me it had nothing to do with Ebonics."

The organization did not "obviously" change its name to the BAA. It changed its name from "Ebonics" to "Eubonics/BAA." The "Eubonics/BAA Scholarship" is in effect as of 11/28/07. That's not dishonesty or an attack. It's a fact.

The statement that many colleges have black alumni associations has literally nothing to do with the point(s) at hand. That's not dishonest or an attack. It is simple logic.

Then you said:

"Ebonics was a specific language pattern that some tried to have integrated in our schools. It never happened. There is no black on Earth or organization that promotes the use of Ebonics. None!"

Which begs the question why the USC BAA is calls itself the Eubonics/BAA. As for "no black on earth" ... have you listened to any rap lately and are you aware of the effect of popular culture on youth? That's not dishonest or an attack. It's a reasonable set of questions.

Anything else?

PS If you can actually establish the fact that you are a dues paying member of a Black Student Alumni Association .. of any college or university in the US. I will donate $100 to the UNCF.

Mrs paddy /icedog
My original post always gets lost amongst the madness. My original point was simply that we should learn the culture and history of all cultures in America, and not just European culture. It had nothing to do with Civil Rights.

Donations, no.
Anytime my wife and I receive mail requesting us to donate to a particular college or university, we ask them point blank--If we were to donate, where would the money go, and how would we know?
Now days with all the libs in our universities who try to be PC, we say no way unless they have a program called Caucasian Persuasion. Needless to say, that gets their attention.

Anthony Thomas
You write: Tell me, when was the last time you heard any black person even mention Ebonics?


Every single day,dear!

I just don't call it Ebonics. It is sloppy gutter speak taken from the thug culture. IOs this something to emulate?

right is its own defense
"It's amazing how ." Anthony Thomas complains that we are referring to the ebonics movement from a decade ago"Yet his motivation for affirmative action lies in events that happened 50 years ago"

Affirmative Action was created to correct past injustices, is currently an operating program, and still a debatable issue and relevant to today’s times.

Ebonics was never instituted, is not taught or federally mandated, and its use isn't even in debate anymore, even amongst African Americans.

If you don't see the differences between the two, I don't know what else to tell you.

AT
No interest in correcting the record and acknowledging that Dr. Adams was not lying in this article about the scholarship? I know it's hard to admit you were wrong or just too lazy to do the research, but you've clearly been proven wrong and it might go a long way to gaining a shred of credibility on this site.

Anthony and BHL
Anthony Thomas writes: How many years ago was that? Why are we talking about something that isn't even in debate anymore?

I don't know, but why do you continue to throw around slavery and segregation? Based on your illogic this is even less pertinent to the discussion seeing how these policies ended 150 and 40 years ago, respectively. I have never read anyone who ties himself up more with contradictory arguments then you Anthony. You should be the first in line at your Alma Mater asking for your money back because they didn't teach you a thing.

Bleeding Heart: Could you please spare all of us your Either/Or argumentative premises. They really only demonstrate the simplicity of your thinking or the narrowness of your thoughts.

OOOPS, look what I did. I created my own inane either/or premise in an effort to direct and therefore control the debate. Nice try, but anyone with debate abilities (read as analytical thinkers) are only annoyed by your pedestrian efforts.

Anthony Thomas
Actually I chose to skip making a response to your first post on this thread because the only one who was exposing their bigotry (sorry...in your voice is is BIGOTRY) is you.

Guilting the lilly
Being a tail-end boomer, I was in elementary school at the beginning of the educational "enlightenment" period.
Affirmative action programs were sprouting by the thousands, and every American child who was white was was being taught that people who were not white were "minorities", and needed special consideration and help to achieve success.
{The guilting of whites didn't start until high school}.
The classroom, the theater, movies, and TV did everything they could to emphasize the abuse of "colored" people with the goal of "raising awareness" about the poor plight of the wretched oppressed class.
The immediate reaction was other than the social scientists expected, to wit, the activist groups at the time were trying to erase labels, and the new establishment was starting on the long road to today where having a lefty label applied to you is a badge of honor 'cos it means you are "of the body".
You stand everything MLKJ. stood for on it's head by pointing your finger anywhere but yourself.
You may not be able to change the world, but you have every opportunity to change yourself, here in America unlike anywhere else in the world you'ld care to name.
So keep on marginalizing white people in the name of multiculturism (seperate racial\ethnic\cultural identity).

Anthony Thomas
You either have info. that the Adams column is false or you don't!

I can't see Adams sitting down after dinner one night and coming up with "The Black Alumni Association Ebonics/Support Group Scholarship"

Acutally, by today's PC standards it's par for the course at colleges and universities.

Also, if the thing was even slightly false, the TH staff would have been on it like white on paper.

I think Adams just exposed more left wing crapola which, btw, is rampant on college campuses today.

Another cultural corpse reanimated?
I remember in the mid-late '90's there was a big craze for "ebonics" and all sorts of pseudo-African synthetic culture such as Afrocentricism, Kwanzaa, urban clothing styles that belong to no actual indigenous African people, the false assertion of Swahili as a continent-wide lingua franca (Western Africans, of whom most Americans of African heritage actually come, almost never used it; it was an eastern African tongue), and so on.

There was a corollary of Afrocentricism that posited Africa was some kind of idyllic quasi-Atlantean society before the nasty ol' Europeans came along. What I found tragically ironic about this fad was that at the same time others began rightful condemnation of the widespread, traditional, uniquely African (NOT Islamic per se), practice of female genital mutilation. (Horrible in itself, FMG has also been cited as a risk factor for AIDs in Africa.)

IIRC, Dr. Walter Williams pointed out the absolute vacuous baselessness of the then-current 'ebonics' theory, pointing out that what we think of as a distinct black American patois actually originated with uneducated Englishmen in 17th Century Yorkshire. Until now, I've heard little about the matter since.

Mike...
you silky-headed wigger,
keep it real

katy the mean old lady
"I just don't call it Ebonics. It is sloppy gutter speak taken from the thug culture. IOs this something to emulate?"

No it isn't. And believe me, go to any poor southern trailer park, and you'll see just as much abuse of the English language I bet. But I don''t see too many columns about that.

?
I always thought the term was "wh\igger"...

weak weak wwwsword
"False Consciousness
ScarletPimpernel, unfortunately false conscious affects blacks, too."

I have a high degree of reading comprehension. In context of our discussion, I took this statement to it's logical conclusion: you think that blacks who do not "act black" are fooling themselves. If this is not what you meant, please clarify.

And don't bring that weak stuff in here: "You are not so dumb that this is really what you thought I was saying. Please. You lost the argument. Don't add insult to injury by playing dumb." That's what dimbulbs like Al Gore say to end discussion instead of admitting defeat graciously. Try to have reason and facts on your side before declaring victory.

Interesting Topic
Having not posted on TH for some time now, I find it funny that Mike picked this topic. Kind of old and has no relation to reality. Then again, this is TH.

On this topic, I am struck by how these cons are in lock step with Jesse Jackson on this issue. I remember Jesse called out Oakland as teaching slang to children. Cons following the lead of Jesse. How ironic!!

I also remember reading the essay "The English Language is My Enemy" by Ossie Davis while at Howard. I don't think it is on the Internet and you can only get it by going to a library. It is worth the trip. Plus, you get to go to a library!!!!!

Speaking of books, I remember reading "Their Eyes Were Watching God" by Zora Neals Hurston. I don't know about you (or if you ever heard of it or the author) but it was so difficult to read. Also the poetry of Paul Laurence Dunbar and Sterling A Brown (again you probably never heard of them) used AAEV in their works. Again this is such a non issue.

On a personal note, I recall an incident that occurred while I was at Howard. I was out with some friends in Georgetown. We ran into this young woman from Iowa who was of European extraction. She was a member of the College Republicans at GWU. We start talking about politics and life. Eventually though, she says "You don't speak like a normal black person". By this point, I'm thinking I was daydreaming or the chicken salad I had was laced with something. So I say politely, "What do you mean?” She goes on to say that I use proper English, I'm in college, and can carry on an articulate conversation. She further goes on to say that she thinks of me not "being black" and means this as a compliment. By this point, I had to leave. Long story short, I believe she works at the RNC downtown in the PR department. Ignorance sure is contagious and seems to fester in the Republican Party. God Bless her.

Agent Crawfish
If I remember correctly, Anthony Thomas is an Urban Northeast Liberal. This area has 1 BIG state, it is called Denial :).

Ralph wears the mask
Liberals are usually the ones who I hear say to a black person, "You're very eloquent".

Nice assumptions, Mr. Ellison. I'm sorry but you don't qualify as authentically black though. Sorry.

p.s Hillary says
"An' you know what ahm talkin' bout!"

USC
Professor Adams,
As a graduate of USC, this disgusts me. In their quest to be number one, they have allowed all of this PC BS to infiltrate what was once a wonderful institution of higher learning. No more $$ from me!

Doctony
"I have never read anyone who ties himself up more with contradictory arguments then you Anthony."

Where are my contradictions? I love accusations with no proof.

ScarletPimpernel
This was a cons. She works for your party.

As far as Democrats, I alluded to this in my last post. We are not exempt. As for liberals, usually their statement of choice, "I have many black friends so I am not racist" or "I support affirmative action(unless it affects my child or me)". Trust me, I have my qualms about such liberals.

As bad as some are, they still are better than some of you cons. How sad.

PS: Hilary says, "What!!!!!!! I actually don't have the nomination locked up!!!!!! But my last name is Clinton!!!!!!! It's because I'm a woman isn't it?????"

Ralph Ellison
I enjoyed your personal story...I spotted where the thrust of the story was going when you identified the young woman as a 'college republican'

If the story is indeed true, and I have not reason to disbelieve you, it is unfortunate that you chose to be offended instead of trying to use this as a teaching moment and to foster a better understanding between you.

I hardly think she intended it as an insult, as clumsy as her statement was. I don't know this as a fact, of course, I'm projecting a little bit.

It reminds me of my cousin saying at one time that they LOVED watching the Cosby Show...they were just a regular family they could relate to, and she didn't look at the Huxtables as 'black.'

My cousin certainly didn't mean that comment as an insult, but to illustrate that she found common ground where she had previously not had an opportunity to learn this lesson. (We grew up in a predominantly white area of rural America (not too far from Iowa)...I never even met a black person until I was 12 years old, and that was after I moved away!)

I'm just saying that, while I understand your reaction, it isn't necessarily indicative of all Republicans, and might very well be an indicator of her lack of exposure to anyone outiside of her home-town in rural white America. You missed an opportunity to be an advocate and role-model for your race.

Who was the most closed-minded here?

Tony you put the T in ...
ConTradicTion. Dude you've been called out & you responded like a limp herring. Now you want to start it all over again with Doctony? Are you sure you have an IQ?

Anthony Thomas writes: Wednesday, November, 28, 2007 3:06 PM

Doctony
"I have never read anyone who ties himself up more with contradictory arguments then you Anthony."

Where are my contradictions? I love accusations with no proof.



On some subjects it's best to remain....

...silent. I have read all the retorts and comments. Mrs paddy and two or three more were among the most intelligent. Enough said.

You convinced me. Of what.??. I am not sure. Except that some people have their head on backwards. Of course I mean you Anthony and two or three more.

Don't feel bad, you have lots of company with the same mistaken thoughts. However, I give you credit for trying. It won't get you a better job though.

Is every one today having the same problem of not getting into TH except sporadically.??. It has been pure H just trying to F5 and keep up.


AT's strategy
Get used to it, people. Anthony Thomas makes a claim, it gets trounced with facts, then he writes about something else. Then that secondary topic gets trounced with facts, and he says that wasn't even his original point. Don't even bother arguing with him. I tried, we've all tried, and it's pretty obvious to anybody reading these posts that he doesn't care about facts. We prove him wrong and he doesn't admit he was wrong. AT: you can have your own opinion, but you can't have your own facts. And your failure to acknowledge facts makes you lose all credibility here. Take it somewhere else, somewhere where people can say whatever they want with no factual support whatsoever because all that matters is feelings. Try the DailyKos or HuffingtonPost.

onceamarine
You are not the only one who's having problems with TH today. The scroll is slow, and the pages don't refresh as fast as they usually do.

Mrs. Paddy
I invited her to come up to Howard to “shadow” me and learn something. She declined and stated she would feel "out of place". I just left it alone at that point.

As far as "the advocate and role mode for my race", I don't think that wasn't possible in this situation nor is it my job or obligation. Not to sound mean or anything, but are you one for your "race”? I am 1 person out of 36 million African Americans in this country. I cannot accurately give you the opinion of every African American or member of my "race". That is impossible. I have never thought of all "white" people as one monolithic group. Maybe it is just me, but I look at "white" people as individuals. Why is that so hard for some people to do for African Americans? I'm curious as to your opinion.

As for the Republican/cons issue, I understand your point. I know 1 or 2 good cons. I think though that there are certain core beliefs/principles that govern your mindset/movement that are universal and attract people to this selective grouping.

What also gets me is how cons like to play that game where the Democrats hate African Americans, the GOP really loves us but has difficulty expressing their true emotions, and we are too stupid to know the difference. It seems as if the Right has this assumption that we are not able to choose our own party as if we are living in the USSR.


Also
For the record, I don't like cons principles/platform, Reagan/Bush is no hero to me, and the Democratic Party/progressive movement fits my personal philosophy/preference. Yet, it seems as if cons think I am brainwashed or on a "plantation". Come on now.

Plus, outside yourself and maybe 2 other cons posters, TH doesn’t really move me to become cons. In fact, it reinforces my beliefs and gives further credence as to why I could never join such a party/movement/group.

I don't know. This is just my opinion. 1 voice out of 6.8 billion people worldwide. I gotta go

Ralph
Conservatives look at you as if you are as capable as they themselves are. Liberals look at you as if you need help and they're just the ones to go get someone else to help you;) You may realize this one day, we all hope.

Poor Reading Comprehension Indeed
SP writes, "I have a high degree of reading comprehension. In context of our discussion, I took this statement to it's logical conclusion: you think that blacks who do not 'act black' are fooling themselves. If this is not what you meant, please clarify."

What do you mean by "acting black"? Do you think that "acting black" involves using Ebonics? Are blacks not supposed to act black, but act white instead?

What you are doing is reading and attacking arguments you want to read and attack, rather than reading what I am writing and engaging my points. It's a very disingenuous way to argue.

On some subjects it's best to remain....

...silent. I have read all the retorts and comments. Mrs paddy and two or three more were among the most intelligent. Enough said.

You convinced me. Of what.??. I am not sure. Except that some people have their head on backwards. Of course I mean you Anthony and two or three more.

Don't feel bad, you have lots of company with the same mistaken thoughts. However, I give you credit for trying. It won't get you a better job though.

Is every one today having the same problem of not getting into TH except sporadically.??. It has been pure H just trying to F5 and keep up.


Ralph ellison
"Why young African American men are dying everyday to gun violence takes more precedence. I'm in that 19-34 age group (tail end)and this sh@t is getting old."

Believe me I understand, it does get old. I really try to avoid the columns like this, but I see an racist comment here, and another one there, and then I can’t help but combating them all. I heard about that Taylor thing. I was sorry to hear that. Too young for that. The violence is out of control, not just in DC either. We had 406 homicides last year in Philly, and have had about 360 this year thus far. I have no idea what is wrong with these people. Your guess is just as good as mine.

I tell many folk that not only do we have to deal with the oppressive external forces (many of the types that post here), but we also have to deal with the internal oppressive forces as well. I'll be the first to tell you that I don't really know how to deal with the internal. Some of the murders just seem like border line insanity. How do you address that? Keep doing whatever it is your doing in DC, I hope it helps. If it does, bring it to Philly. Thanks a lot, take care.

ScarletPimpernel
So why do cons like the CCC, AEI, Hoover, Heritage,and John Birch work actively against the interests that many African Americans, as evidenced by polling, have????

Why no outreach to a huge voting base for over 30 years????

Just curious.

not of that sub-culture
RE: shame on your filthy racism.

Mike, not to be upset about their racism, they are just cultivating their ethnic sub-cultures. The Judeo-Christian world has it's place and it is not in competition with the privileged minorities benefiting from these USC scholarships (although I think including one for Muslims would be appropriate).

Oppression
AT: Apparently, saying that we think blacks should be treated as equals is oppressing them. That tells me all I need to know about who you are and what you believe.

Ralph: What "black interests" are you talking about? Welfare? Handouts? Affirmative Action? More money for a failing education system? If "black interests" mean giving you income you did not earn or credit you do not deserve, then I am proud to be against black interests.

Very fair statement, Ellison.....

Treat each person as an individual before making any assumptions. Wish we all would do that. It's only fair and correct and laudable. Congrats..

And occasionally maybe have a little patience with them. They may not be accustomed to that individual treatment. It's too easy to group people, and it may be just a bad day they are having, or they stumble because they are unaccustomed to the other party.

Peace from a conservative liberal or a liberal conservative. You really can't tell which, can you.??. People are not that easy to button hole.


Anthony
You claim Ebonics is passe because it is 10 years old and therefore doesn't characterize any segment of the black population (ever heard of GangstaRap?) but you constantly throw slavery and segregation out as excuses for current behavior. Somehow blaming a society from 150 or 40 years ago, but dismissing a present day issue which arose 10 years ago qualifies as logic. Go figure.

You get upset that Adams points out the inequality, and frankly, the stupidity of a social organization supporting a scholarship based on either color or a 'non-existent' language. Yet you continue to support the persistence of affirmative action as compensation for the sins of the great-great grandfathers of many who weren't even ancestrally in this country. Apparently your definition of separate but equal makes sense to you. Hmmmm.

These are just two examples of the illogical gymnastics you continually engage in while posting. Do yourself a favor and read what you have previously written so as not to contradict yourself in the next post. If not, please give consideration to changing your name to "The Illogical Contortionist". At least then I can prepare myself for the labyrinth of illogical comments I am likely to encounter.

Ralph Ellison
Cool. I agree with what you said. But you feel that many have a stereotypical impression of you based on your race.

Certainly it is not your role or obligation to be a role model. I understand your point. It is too bad that she didn't accept your proposal to shadow your day at Howard. I'm sure it was outside of her comfort level, and that is too bad.

I look at everybody as individuals, too. We all have our biases, and our deficiencies in understanding others that are outside of our realm of experience.

I guess that is why I have a hard time understanding why you embrace affirmative action, quotas etc. When will we get to that ideal that MLKJ said when we are all judged by the content of our character and not the color of our skin?

It is a noble goal. I think we are a lot closer to that than we used to be. There will always be those who are bigoted and refuse to accept someone of a different race or religion, or other factors...We cannot change the whole world...only God can do that.

But, I believe that we need to act as if the whole world accepts us. For those individuals who are too blind, we must just move on to greener pastures. At least, that is how I feel.

That's the fundamental difference to me. I believe in the individual (this is a conservative value), self-reliance and limited government. It is much more satisfying to achieve for myself as to have it handed to me beit by a hand out or preferential treatment. That is equality of Opportunity.

There will never be equality of outcome. That's just life.

Question for AT and Ralph
How should I treat the black students in my classes?

Should I assume they are just as intelligent and talented as the white, asian and hispanic students in my class, and grade them equally?

Or should I assume they are victims of a racist educational system that has held them down and therefore they cannot be expected to perform as well as students of a different skin color, and give them extra points to make up for it?

I look forward to your responses.

Early Ebonics
Dear Professor Adams: Like Uncle Max, I am reminded here of Barbara Billingsley (alias June Cleaver) who so helpfully spoke "Jive" (Early Ebonics) in the movie "Airplane". And you got no response from them after taking the trouble to address them in their own language? Unconscionable! They be dissin' you... cracka!!

like I said wwwsword
weak.

right is its own defense
"Get used to it, people. Anthony Thomas makes a claim, it gets trounced with facts, then he writes about something else"


See now you're just lying, I addressed your comment directly at 2.22pm. Did you not see it. Here I'll re post it.

"right is its own defense" said:

"It's amazing how ." Anthony Thomas complains that we are referring to the ebonics movement from a decade ago"Yet his motivation for affirmative action lies in events that happened 50 years ago"

I said:

Affirmative Action was created to correct past injustices, is currently an operating program, and still a debatable issue and relevant to today’s times.

Ebonics was never instituted, is not taught or federally mandated, and its use isn't even in debate anymore, even amongst African Americans.

If you don't see the differences between the two, I don't know what else to tell you.


Now what did I write that didn't address your comment?

AT
I was referring to your accusation that Dr. Adams lied and made up the whole thing, when clearly he provided a link to it.

You did address my point about the inconsistency you have in saying "don't talk about this b/c it's in the past" and then saying "we still need to talk about these things in the past" -- not effectively in my opinion, but at least you tried.

To Lilly
Lilly it is obvious you mistake affirmative action with the civil rights act. Go back and review the speeches of Dr. King (one of the heroes of my youth) you will not find any demands for special treatment only equal treatment. He wanted the opportunity for blacks to receive the same education andopportunities as whites. Nowhere will you find him claiming blacks could not live up to the same academic standards required of everyone else. It is the liberals that have systematically convinced blacks that they cannot succeed without affirmative action (special dispensations). I suggest you read the biographies of Frederick Douglas and Booker T washington. They were men that faced a world of bigotry, hatred and violence and still accomplished great things and you are of the opinion that blacks in todays world can't succeed without the dumbing down of requirements for success. I can only find comfort in knowledge that more and more blacks are coming to the realization what the liberal have done to their dignity their families and their futures.

AT the Illogical Contortionist
right is its own defense:
Imagine in your mind if you dare--
AT has now become the only person capable of putting his elbow in his ear. But you shouldn't be surprised, considering where he usually puts his entire head. It's a frightening image.

DocTony
"You claim Ebonics is passe because it is 10 years old and therefore doesn't characterize any segment of the black population (ever heard of GangstaRap?)"


Those are entirely two separate issues. If you want to talk about so called "Gangstarap" we can talk about "Gangstarap". But Ebonics has nothing to do with it. You guys just like to blend all subjects into one thing.

"but you constantly throw sla