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Monday, November 12, 2007
Mike Adams :: Townhall.com Columnist
John Browning Day
by Mike Adams
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For the record, I am opposed to Martin Luther King, Jr. Day as a national holiday in the month of January or, for that matter, any other month. It isn’t that I oppose a national holiday celebrating the legacy of America’s greatest civil rights leader. I just don’t believe that King was our greatest civil rights leader. I believe that distinction belongs to John Browning.

Since John Moses Browning was born on January 23rd, 1855, it will be easy to make the transition from a Martin King to a John Browning national holiday. And it will be educational, too. Many gun owners are unaware that Browning sold 44 guns to Winchester including the Model 94 level action repeater. Guns based on the Model 94 design and chambered in 30-30 have probably killed more deer in North America than any other model before or since.

Few Colt owners have had a chance to shoot the .30 and .50 caliber machine guns or 37-mm aircraft cannon. But all of those lucky enough to own Colts including the .45 Caliber and Woodsman models are benefiting from a basic design coming from the greatest genius the firearms industry has ever known.

Today’s “civil rights” movement has become a disgrace largely because it is based on the idea that people are entitled to things they did not earn through the fruits of their own labor. Instead, people are given things on the basis of what their ancestors suffered – all coming from those who did nothing wrong on the basis of what their ancestors did wrong.

But John Browning was a different kind of man. He refused to take anything he did not earn. He even refused an honorary degree from a university on the basis of that principle. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson could learn a lot from a man who practices what he preaches.

Dr. King was a success largely because he relied on the ideas of his predecessors. And, indeed, his reliance on the teachings of Jesus and Gandhi were responsible for stopping a lot of unnecessary bloodshed. But Browning was a true innovator. Indeed, when Winchester was insisting that his first shotguns should be of lever action design, Browning was pushing hard for the mass production of his pump action design.

Years later, his critics came around and the Model 93 pump shotgun was born. Most of the shotguns I have in my gun safes in the 21st Century are of this 19th Century design. He was even further ahead of the rest of the gun making world when he produced the first functioning auto loading shotgun. A full 54 years would pass before any other gun maker was able to produce an autoloader that actually worked.

Browning’s superiority as a gun maker had a lot to do with the seeming inability of his mind to ever rest. He once was shooting a rifle and noticed that at some distance some weeds were bending as a result of the energy from the muzzle blast. He wondered what could be done with that wasted energy. Then, he turned to his son and said that he thought it might be possible to use the energy to keep the gun firing for as long as the shooter had ammunition.

Upon developing his first semi-automatic pistol, Browning began to give greater consideration to the concept of recoil operation. He thought it would be equally as important as gas operation. After some experimentation, he spoke of the possibility of making a fully workable machine gun. He sincerely believed he could do it in less than ten years. It actually took him less than one year.

It should go without saying that the fully automatic weapons of John Browning helped to win World War I. Years later the Associated Press would reveal that Browning accepted $750,000 from the government for his inventions and time combined. Had he charged the government the standard royalty rate he would have earned over $12,700,000. How long has it been since an American civil rights leader placed his country’s interests above his own financial well-being?

It is difficult to decide just what the greatest achievement of John Moses Browning was. Some may say it was the 128 different patents issued to him in less than half a century, which resulted in the production of over 80 distinctly different firearms. Other may say it was the fact that his guns ranged from those hurling a .22 short to those hurling a 37 mm projectile. Still others may say it was his willingness to change – from lever actions, to pump actions, to semi automatic actions, to automatic actions.

But I disagree with all of the above. I believe that John Browning’s greatest achievement is the example he set for all Americans with his work input not his work output. Indeed, he showed us that we can only be set free through hard work, a love of country over self, and a refusal to take credit for the achievements of others.

I think the time has come for us to acknowledge formally the man who helped us win two world wars and save countless lives with his inventions. In the process, we may begin to see that our greatest civil rights struggle is really a battle against the unholy trinity of complacency, selfishness, and economic entitlement.

Dr. Adams will speak at Bucknell University on Thursday November 15th, at 7 p.m. in the Olin Science Lecture Hall, room 268.

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About The Author
Mike Adams is a criminology professor at the University of North Carolina Wilmington and author of Feminists Say the Darndest Things: A Politically Incorrect Professor Confronts "Womyn" On Campus.
 
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fine column
damned fine column.

Shoot!! I wish I had written that!
Nice column, Professor!

It'll Never Fly
The liberals won't go for a holiday based around a self-made man. You'd sooner get an atheist into a confessional.

Awesome
I was just discussing this with a friend. I think this is why so many of us in America have no idea what freedom means because we think it is something that is always given to us no matter what just because of where we live. John Browning understood the importance of having a goal in mind and the will with which to achieve that goal, but if we don't even know what freedom really is, how are we supposed to fight for it? We think freedom is living in a happy little bubble where all the bad guys are far away. Freedom is better described as treating everyone the same no matter what they look like or what they believe in. Freedom is the ability to understand people for who they are, and to appreciate why they are different than you. As it turns out freedom is not free. It is not something that is just given to you because you think you deserve it. Freedom has been fought for many times before, and a time is coming soon when it will be fought for again. I can only hope that those who chose to fight are of the same breed as John Moses Browning and that we embrace the ideas of freedom before its too late.

Inventors....
Thanks....

Reasonable people
adapt to the way the world is. Unreasonable people try to make the world adapt to them. Therefore, all progress depends on unreasonable people. GB Shaw.

Ask and ye shall recieve...


http://www.petitiononline.com/jmbhldy/petition.html

Ask and ye shall recieve...
A link...

http://www.petitiononline.com/jmbhldy/petition.html

Browning's inventions continue to bless-
All gun haters take careful note. John Moses Browning's gun designs have not only been highly instrumental in preserving freedom in two world wars but also in protecting millions of law abiding citizens from attack by criminals over a period of many years now. As our nation continues to slide more and more into a state of all pervasive moral depravity and criminality, Mr. Browning's invaluable contribution to our safety and protection will become increasingly evident to all.

double post...
srry...

I'm just waiting for Ronald Reagan Day..
Since any political movement or movement for the underclass almost always moves left, it is not surprising that we see a holiday for Martin Luther King.

As for somebody that did something for not just our country, but for the whole world, the political elites that exist will not permit Reagan his day...

How about Frederick Douglass? But then, I digress...

So yes, John Browning should replace Martin Luther King Day but we can wait forever...

And, the facts stated here about John Browning are very interesting.....

John Browning Day
It is also interesting to note that he was a convicted felon, shooting a revenuer, while running a stil and most of his original work though too late for a significant impact in WWI, the Browning automatic rifle,BAR, went with every infantry squad in WWII and the 50 cal Machine gun M2 is still used in the Army today.

I Feel Bad
I am hurt that there is no TruLib Day. My self esteem is injured. Why are there no politicians pandering to me. This makes me feel bad. I should never have to feel bad. Why should John Browning get his own day just because he contributed so much. It isn't fair he was so smart and worked so hard. You should not have to be smart and work hard to get stuff. I feel bad because I don't have more stuff. I am going back to bed.

mech3d
I think you are confusing Browning with 'Carbine' Williams, the inventor of the M1 Carbine.

Correction to John Browning
Marsh Williams not John Browning was a convicted felon. His design contributed to the M1 carbine used in WWII. Please excuse the error Mr. Browning.

Hmmm
While I'm not going to speculate over the virtues of celebrating the life of a gun inventor over that of Martin Luther King, the claim that Browning is the "greatest genuis that the firearms industry has ever known" is questionable. Mikhail Kalashikov's AK-47 is arguably the more influential weapon, certainly more iconic and there are about 100 million of them doing the rounds. Not bad - considering he didn't make a penny out of them and lives on a Russian state pension, which presumably isn't much of a living these days, if it ever was. That is also, surely, "true love of country over self".

TruLib
Sorry to have to tell you, but you are too late to win my first laugh of the day award. Unca Alby beat you to it. Nice try though, just a little late.

Savage99
I overslept. Now I feel bad.

Honor Is A Moment Lived In Self-Mastery
Honor is not what is bestowed, it is an honest life lived to serve, sow in gratitude humility and love.

"Straight when it hurt him a lot to be;
Times when a lie would have paid him well,
No matter the cost, the truth he'd tell;
An' he'd rather go down to a drab defeat
Than save himself if he had to cheat."
--Edgar A. Guest "The True Man"

The introduction I have read, and now I will nourish my soul, which leaves us all richer to know the life of a Christ like of unpretentious man. Honor goes to those who live to serve and not for gain, or praise or glory in man’s domain. That is to have and value self-respect, in our finest hours of destiny, each moment is live with self-mastery.

my 2 cents
The info in this piece -

"Oooooh I did not KNOW that."

Now I do

Thanks

"He That Lives By The Sword"
Amazing. I would never have suspecte I would be reading about Guns. One truth however rings clear, Humility and service ruled his life more than the rule of power by fear. It is thw reverce of what we witnesed in the Waco massicure. And it was said, 'Let that be a lesson to the rest of you." A facistic act of we must prevent by voting for a man how will put his nation before self-interest.

That man is Gov. Mitt Romney, a man that MSM and his critics don't what you to know. So, they twist, and bend space, time and truth hoping to control your choice by fear, prejudice and ignorance. Over come the fear and prejudice with a godley desire to know the truth by study and prayer to over come uncertainty.

Honor Is A Moment Lived In Self-Mastery
Honor is not what is bestowed, it is an honest life lived to serve; sowed in gratitude, faith humility and love.

Spiceman
Please learn to use spell check.

the AK-47
Methinks "Critical Bill" is not being very critical in his thinking today. Sure, I've heard that argument about how "influential" the AK-47 is supposed to be, but the fact is Kalashnikov designed just one gun, and there was nothing fundamentally new about it's design parameters. Indeed, Kalashnikov was inspired by the German Sturmgewehr rifle, which he'd seen on the Eastern Front, and it was the first "assault rifle" ever designed, not the AK.

Granted, it was a better weapon than the Sturmgewehr, and indeed better than many other assault rifle designs that came after it, particularly in terms of it's classic Russian robust design (that is, you could throw it in the mud, stomp on it, and it would still fire). But when you get down to it, the only thing that really sets it apart is that the Soviets made so many of them, and handed them out in ton lots to every Third World cesspool whose leaders made noises like Communists.

No, while Kalashnikov has his place in the pantheon of gun designers (comparable with that of Eugene Stoner, designer of the M-16), neither he nor his gun are anywhere near the stature of John Browning.

Race Hustling Poverty Pimping
Booker T. Washington the famed black educator said, "There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping troubles, wrongs, and hardships of the Negro race before the public. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs." Autobiography 1901 “Up From Slavery”

It is a shame
that Browning had to go to Belgium to establish his factory.

CB you display your ignorance. The AK-47 used principles invented by Browning.

cave bear
Perhaps your perfectly reasonable response to my post serves to illustrate what an utterly ridiculous premise this article is based on... perhaps if Browning had used his wealth to promote peace, learning and tolerance, as Alfred Nobel did, he would be more worthy. But I'm unaware as to what he did with his gains, and you can shout for it until you are blue in the face, but Browning will never gain any widespread acceptance as a paragon of civil liberties. As someone here mentioned, Frederick Douglass would be an equally deserving recipient of a natinal holiday as MLK, and I dare say some might even consider John Brown. That would be a sensible argument, but Browning? Just plain daft.

Vic
What, and Browning invented gunpowder did he? And the cartridge? Of course he didn't. Browning took principles invented by other people, like just about every inventor, and improved upon them. In the same way, at least 22 people are credited with developing the electric lightbulb prior to Edison... Browning was a very succesful innovator and problem solver. Just like Kalashnikov. But he could not have done it without others providing the basics and the problem to be solved. Very few inventions are not dependent on someone else doing the groundbreaking...

Query for Critical Bill
Isn't the action of the Kalashnikov dependent on the technology, which Browning developed, of using gas or recoil energy to autoload?

Vic
Not to put too fine a point on it, but you are an idiot.

Did you even bother to read my post? I stated specifically that "there was nothing fundamentally new about it's design parameters", referring to Kalashnikov's AK-47 design. By that time EVERYONE was using Browning's designs for auto and semiauto weapons, and Kalashnikov was no different.

Indeed, when it comes displaying one's ignorance, you are the one who is clueless here, with your statement that "It is a shame
that Browning had to go to Belgium to establish his factory."

This is total BS. Browning did design firearms for the Belgian arms maker Fabrique Nationale de Herstal (more commonly known as Fabrique Nationale or simply FN), founded in 1889 to make Mauser rifles for the Belgian government.

While Browning did a lot of design work for FN (he was in Belgium when he died in 1926), he also did the same thing for Colt, Winchester and Remington. The Browning Arms Company, which was founded by Browning's family in 1927, a year after he passed away, was ultimately purchased by FN, but not until 1977, fifty years after Browning's death.

Consider yourself Bear Slapped, goober boy.



Mad Dawg
I'm no ballistics and ammunition expert, and I'm not going to try to pretend to be. You may well be right, and you sound pretty certain of your facts and there is no reason for you to lie - so I guess you are right. But that isn't the point - as I said in my last post, Browning is just like the vast majority of inventors, taking a problem caused by a previous invention and improving on it. In that respect he is no different from Klashnikov. Russia needed a cheap, reliable sub-machine gun that could be put together by unskilled labour - so he took principles developed by other inventors, including Browning, and came up with the AK-47. Likewise, Browning did not invent the gun from scratch, as some people here appear to be attempting to imply. He saw an existing problem and solved it using a technique that had not been used before. I'm not disparaging what he did but in the same way MLK took the philospohy of some people he admired and turned it into his own - as have all philosophers to a certain extent, including Jesus and Ghandi. I'm not sure that there's much difference.

To my fellow veterans...
God bless you and happy Veterans Day!!

2nd amendment is also about a civil righ
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Adams is basing the civil rights side of this on the civil right to keep and bear arms, and then presenting the considerable virtues of Mr. Browning by way of contrast with their absence in the current crop of rights hustlers.

I know I'm going to regret this, but
Actually, Mikhail Timofeyevich Kalashnikov never invented anything, and has never claimed he did.

The action of his "Avtomat" was a combination of the bolt system of the M1 Garand and the "open" gas system of the earlier Simonov rifle. The "7.62 x39mm" cartridge was apparently based on a design from the German Polte firm, that had been rejected by the German Army for their machine-carbine projects because it would have required too much retooling to make. (The final German 7.92 x 33 "short" round was made on the same tooling as the big 7.92 x 57 round used in the Mauser bolt-action rifle.) This is why the bore of an AK runs .323" instead of .308" or so- it's actually a 7.92mm, not 7.62. Kalashnikov was given the round and told to build a rifle around it.

Even the trademark AK safety plate was copied from the old Remington Model 8 gas-operated rifle, designed by....John Browning.

In short, Kalashnikov is a synthesist who took disparate features from other sources and made them work. Which is all he's ever claimed to be.

And BTW, Browning's usual procedure for "prototyping" his designs is interesting. To get the working parts shapes exactly right, he whittled his original "working models" (non-firing variety) out of wood.

That, I believe, shows his true genius.


cheers

eon

Mad Dawg
Thanks for the explanation - I have been wondering what on earth Adams had been drinking this weekend... and where I could get some.

In the 1930's the Marine Corps......
decided upon a Browning design to replace the '06 bolt action. Of course under Roosevelt and the U.S. Army the decision was made to build the Garand or M1 as it was known.

The reasoning of the Marines was simple. It out performed any other design under all conditions, but particularly typical combat conditions, dirt, mud and no time to clean it. Such are our losses due to bureaucracy and cost cutting where no costs should be cut.



Mike Got it Wrong
As much as I like Mike (both of us went to Mississippi State Univ.), he got it wrong. The Left and the MSM will never allow a day to be set up to honor John Browning. We all know what they think about guns.

Browning was to firearms what Edison was to the electrical world, perhaps the greatest inventor who ever lived. Kalashnikov and the German developers of the Sturmgewehr all owe him for developing the "principles" they used.

Critical Bill (8:40am): Sorry, as an electrical engineer who also worked for GE in Schenectady, New York, there is no doubt in the engineering world that Edison developed and designed the first usable light bulb. (I do not include any design that only has a usable life of about 10 minutes.) However, to give fair credit to others, Edison wanted to use DC electric power which would have meant power plants every 10 miles in the US. Westinghouse pushed for AC power.

John Moses Browning Day
Great inventor, but, please, no John Moses Browning Day.

Amen On John M. Browning Day
As a proud owner of several Browning designs, I wholeheartedly endorse a John M. Browning Day. He was the greatest firearms designer of all time. The 1911 is still the most effective sidearm. The .50 cal. M2 machine is still in use by the U.S. military. The Winchester 94 is an icon of the Old West and a fine gun to this day. I had mine at the range this past weekend.

Gray ghost
I bow to your far superior knowledge on lightbulbs - but according to "Edison's electric light: biography of an invention" there were 22 competing versions, many of which were patented before EDison got around to it - as to how long these bulbs lasted I don't know, but clearly Edison was improving on someone else's blueprint by giving bulbs a longer life...

Cave Bear
Evidently someone urinated in you corn flakes this morning.

As a matter of fact, I did not read your post prior to responding to CB because it did not appear in the queue until after I posted my response. TH has a lot of quirks in the program, one of them being that some posts do not show up for a half and hour and many screen refreshes.

After some research I find that Browning did not found FN as I originally thought. Yes, I was in error but that hardly calls for the response that you gave.

Critical Bill
I would have to say, given how history has unfolded over the past 100 years or so that Alfred Nobel's efforts in "us[ing] his wealth to promote peace, learning and tolerance" failed miserably.

The story goes that Nobel started the whole "Prize" thing over the guilt he felt from the use of his invention (dynamite) in war. However, IMNSHO, Nobel's guilt was a bit misplaced, as dynamite has always been mainly used in things like construction, mining and the like. It's battlefield uses were rather specialized to say the least, as dynamite was used in war mainly for blowing up bridges and railroads. Aside from demolitions of this sort, dynamite was really no great shakes as a weapon of war.

While what Adams proposed here in terms of a Browning "holiday" would never happen, the point is that what Browning and his inventions accomplished did far more overall good for the world than King, Douglass or (I had to laugh over this one) John Brown.

Go back and reread Adam's article a few times. You might just figure it out.


Complacency and Selfish Entitlement
Mad Dawg writes:
Monday, November, 12, 2007 9:00 AM
2nd amendment is also about a civil righ

Mike is right on and he made it clear, that Browning did not take credit for the work of another, quoting Mike:

"Indeed, he showed us that we can only be set free through hard work, a love of country over self, and a refusal to take credit for the achievements of others."

Next Mike makes the point of the battle of those people who refuse to defend their "2nd amendment rights." They are trading their rights out of complacency, and selfish interest for economic entitlements, of diminishing returns.

Quoting mike, he wrote: "In the process, we may begin to see that our greatest civil rights struggle is really a battle against the unholy trinity of complacency, selfishness, and economic entitlement."

I Do - But Mistakes keep Me Humble
firetoice writes:
Monday, November, 12, 2007 7:57 AM
Spiceman Please learn to use spell check.
--
Thank you for the suggestion.
"When that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."

Thaks for helping another to improve. But you should see it before I spell check!

Vic
Next time spell out the name of the person you are responding to; clearly there is more than one "CB" around here.

And remember, (any search engine but Google) is your friend...:)

cave bear
I wonder if Vic's comment that you jumped on him for was aimed at me? I think spotting that there are two posters here with the initials CB is beyond the limit of his capabilities. Still, fun to see him get a roasting. Yep, I put John Brown in for a laugh. Had never heard of him until I read Flashman and the Angel of the Lord about 2 months ago. He loco. MLK is a bit of a sacred cow, but overall I think you've got to hand it to him - he was a great civil rights leader, whatever you think of those rights, and he did it largely by turning the other cheek. That is some feat, at a time when black people were still getting lynched on a fairly regular basis, even if his legacy is tarred by the current crop of civl rights leaders. Mandela compared to Mbeki really.

and cave bear
I suspect your gripes about the Nobel prizes centre around the peace prize, without naming names. I think Alfred Nobel's death was reported early and he recovered from a severe illness to read an obit entitled "Dr Death" or something; that was when he decided that he wanted to be remebered for something other than dynamite. The prizes for medicine, physics and chemistry rarely get a mention but it is hard to argue that they have not added to education, or at least their recipients haven't. Anyway, we digress...

Gray Ghost
I thought Steinmetz was the the cat who recognized the low loss cabability of AC transmission. What was Westinghouse' role? Wasn't he air brakes?

Edison great invention
Edison's great inovation was the invention laboratory. Tesla was one of his employees at one time and then went off on his own, after a disagreement.

Interesting story about Browning
I had read an interesting story about John Browning:

When demonstrating his BAR to the government, there was concern that the gun was too heavy and clumsy to be effective. Browning, however, extinguished that belief with an interesting demonstration. He had someone toss into the air thin metal disks. Browning would then shoulder the rifle, take aim, then slice the disks in half with a single shot (i.e. hit the disk latterally, accross the thin side).

Not only was Browning an inovative engineer of firearms, he also knew quite well how to shoot them!

Savage99 9:58am
Steinmetz worked out the "mathematics" of AC electric power (one of his proteges, Edith Clark, wrote the first real text book on AC power, which is still in use).

Westinghouse "recognized" that AC electric power would be more useful, as you could "transform" it to higher voltages and "transmit" it longer distances. He just couldn't work out all the "mathematics" of it.

It is my opinion that Edison helped Steinmetz get into the US so that he could compete with Westinghouse.I have been in Steinmetz's old office in Schenectady and read some of his notes. We are still not up to his "speed" yet in the use of electric power. He and Tesla were the two greatest minds of the early 20th century in the electrical power field.

Tesla is the one
who came up with the idea of alternating current. He sold the patent to Westinghouse who then built the first AC power plant.

Swampfox 10:22am
You are correct about Tesla. Edison must have been a "b*tch" to work for.

Note: Tesla also proved that you didn't have to ship electricity using conductors. In front of witnesses, he shipped electric power using the earth and the "air". Except in limited cases, no one has been able to duplicate his experiment again. Rumor has it that he tore up his notes when Edison "made fun of" his experiment.

racist!
This just goes to prove that Mike Adams is a racist!

Critical Bill
Browning indeed did NOT promote "peace" in the manner you are thinking.

But some of us think the only worthwhile peace comes AFTER you have blasted the Nazi/Communist/Imperial Japan/Jihad types who disturbed the peace from the face of the earth.

A good reason not to disturb the peace is a lot of Americans, Canadians, Brits, Frenchmen, etc. might show up carrying a LOT of Browning's inventions. The next thing you know, you're in a basement of a bunker biting down on cyanide with a pistol--likely inspired by Browning TOO--at your temple.

THAT is civil rights with it's sleeves rolled up.

But if you are going to apply "good works" to gun inventors, you must note that the AK was the weapon of oppression and totalitarianism for half of the 20th Century continuing on into Cuba, North Korea, and China today. The AK is featured on the flag of Angola...a country none of us would be interested in visiting...

Browning's inventions, by contrast, played a large role in HOUNDING communism into the obscure corners of this world we live in now.

Well done...
This is the best article I've seen you write in many months. That's not faint praise, either. I thought you'd forgot how.

Vic, Gray Ghost
Thanks guys. I am familiar with Tesla, Steinmetz and Edison. Westinghouse involvement i was totally unfamiliar with. Tesla and Edison were direct opposites in almost every way. Four extremely capable men. Gray Ghost, weren't you the one who was talking about the Israeli penetration of Syria? Radar ovens would seem to be at least approaching Tesla's demonstration. Granted he was a genius, but i tend to be leery of unduplicated demonstrations.

LOL, CritBill, re the Nobel Prize
Yeah, that much-vaunted Nobel "Peace" Prize, as awarded to......... Al Bore for Globull Warming!

Really impressive, dude. Overwhelming argument.

A couple other nominees:

Tookie Williams, convicted and thankfully executed murderer.

Adolph Hitler (1939)

Joe Stalin

Benito Mussolini

Yasser Arafat

Le Duc Tho


Yeah, there's a real impressive list.

Great Article but..
I don't think the point of the article was just how great an inventor John Browning was (and he was!)but what kind of man he was. The fact that he wouldn't take money or honors that he felt he didn't deserve and his desire to invent things that would help his country in beating back the bad guys. His honesty, integrity, patriotism and humility are worthy of recognition and emulation.

Liberals think guns are inherently evil but the fact is that some of the biggest battles and greatest bloodshed occurred before guns were invented. John Browning is partly responsible the defeat of Adolf Hitler and for our winning two world wars, not a bad legacy! He really does deserve greater recognition. His contributions rank right up there with Edison, Fulton, Steinmetz, Nobel et al.


Savage99 10:49am
I understand you being "leery" of unduplicated experiments. But if it was anyone but Tesla, I would probably agree with you.

Tesla was a certified genius (and a certifiable nut). But some how he figured it out. Some of the newer "wave" theories that have been been formulated are getting close to what he talked about. Your comparison of "radar ovens" is ON THE MARK. (Antigravity and time travel also get into these areas that Tesla was discussing, way before Einstein formulated his theories.)

Westinghouse was closer to the "engineer" I hope and try to be, very practical and very "end-use". I am not good enough to even discuss well the "mathematics" that Steinmetz and Tesla worked out.

BrianR
As I said,. we are digressing, but you obviously haven't read many of the threads about the Nobel prizes here over the last couple of months, have you? Either that or you are just being an arse for the sake of it. I'm going to put my money on the latter. But just to clarify, I did say that the peace prize is probably what Cave Bear was going on about, but that some of the prizes have unarguably been to people who have greatly advanced our understanding of science. Or do you noe have faith in the chemistry, medicine or physics prizes? And just to attempt to educate you about the nomination process, for the umpteenth time (although why I bother I don't know) - anyone can be nominated. The nominations have nothing to do with the committee, they are put forward by a wide range of politicians, lawyers, academics etc. True, Hitler once got nominated. As did Stalin. As did Rush Limbaugh. Arafat won it (how many times do I have to say that I thought that was a ridiculous decision?). But the nomination process has nothing to do with the prize-awarding committee. You are only sore because Gore won it. And if you think it's worthless, like everyone here claims to - STOP MOANING ABOUT IT! I would find it far easier to believe that you didn't care for it if you didn't mention Gore winning it at every opportunity.

Oh, CB.....
talk about being an arse.

Go check out your mirror.


Mike Adams, here ... just kidding!
Just kidding about the racist thing. Was hoping to get Al and Jesse on the thread!

BrianR
Hur hur hur... yeah, go check out your mirror... hur hur hur... that'll learn 'im.

Why don't you go check your collection of clip-on ties instead of posting here?


John Browning day
Mr. Adams, I read with great interest you article about John Browning ,I agree with you completely
And I also believe al sharpton and jesse jackson
are the true racist and are nothing but trouble makers. they have never worked and their lives are based on deceit and stealing from the people they claim to represent.
thanks again for such a great article.
Claude

John Browning day
Mr. Adams, I read with great interest you article about John Browning ,I agree with you completely
And I also believe al sharpton and jesse jackson
are the true racist and are nothing but trouble makers. they have never worked and their lives are based on deceit and stealing from the people they claim to represent.
thanks again for such a great article.
Claude

Clip-on ties, CritBill?
Don't judge others by your own sorry standards.



I can keep this up all day. Take your best shot.


Gray Ghost
So you are the practical sort. Of course, Edison was the most practical, therefore the richest of that crew. A good bit of my career as a software engineer was due to a couple successful bridges i built between embedded computer radar systems and mathematicians who hated practical applications. One brilliant fellow at Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab came by to see how i was doing with some work in his area. He swore me to secrecy that he could even read machine code, because he hated to write it, preferring much his ivory tower. I was always careful to give credit to others' ideas, but some of them told me to keep my mouth shut and take all the credit. They didn't want to be interrupted by people in high places asking them to explain their work. I usually managed to keep my head above water in Admiral level briefings, but i was nowhere near in the class of some of those Ph D's. For one thing, their intention was usually to intimidate and get back to work. Being lazy, i usually enjoyed the break.

BrianR
I was referring to the photos from your daughter's wedding day. If that's not a clip-on you're wearing then I'm Ann Coulter. Classy. A clip-on for your daughter's wedding. She must have been so proud...

Well, Crit Bill, wrong again, as usual.
It's not a clip-on tie. So you have yet again made yourself a buffoon.

By the way, should we now be calling you Ann, Miss Coulter, or what?

You really are a pathetic moron aren't you?


Savage99 11:54am
You sound like you have more in common with Steinmetz (note earlier that I said he didn't even write a text book to explain his work, but allowed a protege to write it). He (Steinmetz that is) prefered to work and allow others to talk about what he figured out.

I wish I could have met either Steinmetz or Tesla in person and talked to them. Meeting John Browning would also have been nice. (Browning seems to have more in common with Westinghouse though.)

Greetings, BrianR.
Thinking of driving up your way. Heading to Frisco sometime in the near future, more than likely in January. If you have a favorite watering hole, perhaps at some point we could arrange a meeting.

On another note, I like that Mike Adams ties in the work ethic that made this country great, when he states: "I believe that John Browning’s greatest achievement is the example he set for all Americans with his work input not his work output. Indeed, he showed us that we can only be set free through hard work, a love of country over self, and a refusal to take credit for the achievements of others."

Too bad the troglodytes on the left, who hate this country so much, don't have the smarts to take advantage of that. But that would require getting off their duffs and going to work. Unthinkable.

Electric Chair
All of this discussion on AC vs DC and Westinghouse vs Edison reminds me of the story about the electric chair. The story goes that Edison's lab invented the electric chair and he persuaded NY to use it to execute criminals in order to discredit Westinghouse's AC transmission. His reasoning was that the public would see it as dangerous and not want it around.

dear Ann
I mean Critical Bill,

Knock it off. This isn't a forum for insult-fights.

Go read:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/Column2.aspx?UrlTitle=la ptops_for_our_veterans&ns=MaryKatharineHam&dt=11/12/2007&pa ge=full&comments=true&submitted=true954723fc-8dda-4242-bfe3 -f517b267b493

MKH's Townhall column about VALOR.

As for Browning Day,

I'd support an effort to replace MLK day with John Doe Day or "Take your dog to a movie" day.

If we're going to have an MLK day, we'll need a Bennedict Arnold Day, a John Paul Jones Day, a George S. Patton Day, and innumerable other days to salute those without whom we would not have a country or civil rights or be able to argue over " - Day".

Oh wait... we have such a day... "Veteran's Day".

To put it in computer geek terms:

Browning > MLK.

BrianR
I've tied many a bow tie, for myself and for those unfortunate enough not to know how to do it or themselves. And I've seen a lifetime of clip-ons. And that, my friend, is a clip on. One hundred per cent sure of it. You can tell because it is tied absolutely prefectly in a tiny know that only a machine can do. Giving your daughter away in a tie that wouldn't look out of place in a fast food joint. What an effort. At least you're not wearing a wing collar, that really would be unforgivable.

Mot Crue
Hey, that would be good. Go to my blog. We'll talk.

Sigh, Crit Bill......
This is beyond ridiculous.

Listen, moron, you've gone from pathetic to dumbazz.

Unless you were in my dressing room with me... and trust me, jerk, there was no one in the room with me.... then you're just blowing steam out your butt, just like always.

Why don't you go play in the freeway, and let the adults have a conversation?

This is all you've got? And you claim to be moving to this country?

Proof positive that there's no IQ test for visas.

Vic 12:22pm
I believe you are correct about Edison and the electric chair; but I never really looked into it.

See everybody later, I am off to Benoit, Rosedale, and Cleveland for inspections and job meetings.

Keep'em in the "black", Savage99.

PS, Crit Bill, I'll extend to you
the same invitation I just did to Mot Crue.


When you're in this country, if you'd like to come and pay me a personal visit, I'll be more than happy to give YOU my address, too.

I think that would be fun..........


Gray Ghost
It would certainly be great to talk with any of those giants. My extremely limited experience is those kind of men are quite easy to talk to. I can well believe Steinmetz left a protege' to write up his stuff. He was plagued with a sad birth defect, severe scoliosis (sp) right? Some of those theoretical types tend to be moved into the world of ideas, just like Shaq was moved towards B-ball. Ben Franklin was the guy i would have liked to talk to, though. One can make a pretty fair case he was as good a theorist as Steinmetz, as practical as Westinghouse and a better than fair hand with the ladies.

I'm confused....
If the author writes a paper containing racially minority figures and then calls himself a racist and then later takes it back can an M-60 still tear the cr*p out of a 55 gallon drum?

Hellernot. The answer is "yes,"
especially if Al Sharpton is standing between the 55 gallon drum and the M-60.

LOL, Hellernot
My particular fave is the Ma Deuce.

50BMG, 750 grains of hot lead in a copper jacket ripping it out there to about a mile at 2500+ fps.

Makes me all warm and fuzzy.

Makes the terrs all wet and mushy.


Now, Back somewhat on theme...
Recently, there was talk of using orbiting arrays of Solar Panels to collect electricity then transmit it to earth. I thought while reading this, "How the aich can they transmit electricity from space down to earth?" Maybe one of the learned posters and Testa's notebook can clarify this to me! And on this theme, how could the contact with the solar panel in the recent repair electricute the repairman? He being several miles from being "Grounded"! Waiting for guidance from my more technical associates here!

Dhole
The space station itself acts as the "ground" much lke the body of a car acts as ground even though it is insulated from the earth by the tires.

BrianR. What's all this nonsense
about a clip-on bow tie? Was that supposed to be a stinging riposte you were dealt? I suppose the next assault on you will be about your daughter's new husband being overweight...Oh, sorry, that's already been done. My my, the troglodytes are at the top of their game today.

Tesla's papers and schematic drawings
were confiscated by the government at the time of his death. It is believed many of the advances in weaponry and medicine, ie: lasers, were a result of his work.

LOL, Mot Crue
Yeah, it was totally bizarre.

I think next I'll be accused of wearing a toupee....

Sheesh.



Tesla, Edison
From all accounts, Edison was a royal a**hole. His push for DC power stemmed from his use of DC power for HIS lightbulb. He simply wanted the money. I've heard the electric chair story before as well. I think it's valid. Edison demonized AC power as much as he could. By some accounts, he invented many other things, and had many theories, but didn't care for anything that he couldn't sell. He was practical to a fault.

Tesla via Westinghouse championed AC power. Tesla invented the induction motor, which must have seen more like magic then anything else seen at the time. It was through the World's Fair that Westinghouse powered that AC power really gained acceptance.

Sophia
Why do you think there is dislike for MLK? We love him like a brother. He gave us union members another holiday! Right in the heart of winter! Catch up with reality Sophia! You are soooo last century!

sigh
Sophia, you must wear a toupee and a clip on tie since you have not responded saying that you don't...

BrianR. Be prepared. The trogs
are ready to bring out their big guns. Next thing you know, you'll be zapped by the mother of all knockout blows. You'll be accused of wearing not just a clip-on bow tie, but a clip-on bow tie made of vinyl. If that doesn't flatten you to the canvas, then you're a better man than I am...Gunga Din.

So there.

Great article!
I will be picking up a brand new, special collector's edition NRA Browning Buck Thursday that I bought last week that comes with an autographed letter from Wayne LaPierre and a Mr. Browning who I hope is a direct descendant of John Browning. I am going to print this column and encase it with the letter. What a great story.

Along the lines of the column
You're right to keep and bear a Browning are again coming under question. Let's hope John Roberts has the C.A. Jones to keep things right.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071111/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_g uns_5

Mot Crue, Rehead
LOL, Mot Crue!

I'll be crushed and evastated!


Redhead, it's actually a great case. Hopefully, SCOTUS will grant cert -- could come as early as tomorrow -- and we can finally get a broad and definitive ruling confirming the individual right interpretation, as per the lower court, through an affirmation of that ruling.

This is a good court makeup for it, it's a terrific case, the time is right.

I can't believe Fenty was dumb enough to appeal it, but appeal it he did; over some very strong advice not to, I hear. But hell, HE had nothing to lose, DC's gun ban was finito.


something in common with Mitt
I was very interested in this article. I had heard of Browning, but I didn't realise the extent of his influence on the gun world. I was especially impressed with his effect on the world wars. After I read this article, I read about him and his father on Wikipedia. It is also interesting that he was Mormon and served a mission in Georgia as a young man. He father was a Mormon pioneer.

What?
What are you looking for Sophia? A bunch of racist remarks? For that you'll have to go to kos and search "Jewish" you'll get hundreds of racist remarks for your file.

Vic
Thanks, and I get the part about the car acting as ground and the space craft comparison. But, the Crewman (or was it Woman?) was hanging out there in space--so far as I, or the breathless press know, unconnected by any conducting agent to the spacecraft---See my question?

And my big question. How long a power cord would it take to bring the Space Panel Power down to the earth? Or, what alternative device do these forward thinking Greenies have in mind? Jules Verne out there? Hello? Hello?

BrianR
It sounds favorable for all the "gun nuts" and those of us who simply believe in freedom from tyranny, but just putting it out there and all of the pressure that goes along with this issue scares me a little that they could side with DC on this one. It will be a HUGE precedent.

Could the previous ruling from I forget what court that the police have no obligation to protect people from criminals have any effect on this case?

Redhead
There have actually been quite a few cases regarding the issue of the responsibility of the police being to society "at large" and not to an individual. Of course, it could be a peripheral issue here, but I have to stress peripheral.

The issues raised in the appeal go more directly right to the heart of the meaning of the amendment itself.

You're right; any time something goes to a court, there's a risk involved. It would be terrible if this went south.

But the bottom line is that it's a risk we have to take. This is an almost ideal time, case, and Court. It won't get any better, and this really does need to be put to rest, once and for all, one way or the other.

Hey, if it goes south, we can all start hunting for real estate in Bern or Geneva.

Gun ownership's mandatory there!

Critical Bill
Dunno who said it first as it's credited to Flavius Renatus Vegetius and Sun Tzu:

"Let him who desires peace, prepare for war."

Browning must have known that in order for blacks to be free and equal, they must be armed.


Critical Bill
I have to say I have read the most ridiculous nonsense under some of Mike Adams articles... but.... a "clip-on tie"???????????





PS, Redhead
I just read Wikipedia's summary of the case, and though Wikipedia's generally not a very reliable source, in this case they did a pretty good job.

Here's the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_v._District_of_Columbia

sophia
A little bit of reading comprehension goes a long way. You should go back and read (I won’t even suggest re-reading) the last two paragraphs in the article.

I don't even know why I'm bothering, but...

Mike is suggesting (per my reading) that Browning contributed more to Civil Rights then MLK. He also suggests that Browning's work ethic is an important part of the American Spirit. You may disagree with this, and if so, address this. Also bear in mind that the right to keep and bear arms may be viewed as a Civil Right. A new Civil Rights movement may be abreast.

Without guns, MLK would still have been assassinated, if he was allowed to be born at all. Without guns, Condolezza Rice would probably be dead. Without guns, much of the black community would still be oppressed. Without Browning, we'd probably be discussing this in German or Japanese, and anti-Semitism and racism would not be an issue...

Perhaps something got by me
Sophia----I don't see any complaint here we're just talking guns. My favorite is still the SKS I brought home from nam---what's your favorite?

Sophia
I'm not so sure if there is a "problem" with MLK or not. I dont think anyone takes issue with his oratorical skills, or his moderate non-violent approach - as mentioned in the Mike Adam's article, but that doesnt mean that we are compelled to "like" the man AS a man.

For example, there are reports that he was a man of "affairs." That he plagerized for his doctorate. That he even plagerized his famous "I have a dream" speech.

Now, if he were a pop singer, none of this would matter. But he was the REV MLK. So it matters. Because if these things are true, then he was a fake. And doesnt deserve a holiday - "national" or otherwise.

This is NOT to "disrespect" the civil rights movement. But criticising MLK is NOT "racist." NOT "criticising" him, if beCAUSE of his skin color, is racist. But NObody is beyond or above criticism. Or should be. Not even MLK.

John Moses Browning
I really enjoy most of your articles. I was not really pleased with the one you wrote on Mormonism. You did not mention that John Moses Browning was born in Ogden, Utah and was a Mormon. There is fabulous John Browning museum there. I am not surprised that he was such a man as you suggest. Mormonism teaches that everything we are and have and do is a gift from God not to be recognized as gifts from men and our own innovations. Without God we are nothing and he believed that everything he accomplished was a gift from God so why should he take recognition for something that he did not do.

BrianR
"Hey, if it goes south, we can all start hunting for real estate in Bern or Geneva.
Gun ownership's mandatory there!"

So that answers the age old question of why the UN doesn't relocate to Geneva!

The Wiki article does make it sound more favorable then I originally feared. From this, I look for a favorable ruling, with a lot of buts, leaving the door open for further cases.

At any rate, as a coworker of mine said, either way, we win. The losers won't be able to fight back...

Redhead and Hellernot
Redhead, yep. I look for this:

Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Roberts: strong 2nd A support.

Kennedy: tepid to strong support. He may try to limit the scope of the ruling.

Souter: surprisingly, I think he could sign on. He's kind of a loose cannon, but if the issues are defined clearly....

Stevens, Ginsburg: against 2nd A.

Breyer: against the 2nd A and hates Scalia.




Hellernot, my favorite rifle's my M1A. I started a love affair with the M14 during Basic; it's lasted longer than both of my marriages.

Sophia
I think we are singing from the same hymn sheet. Personally, when I find that the "great men" of history are so flawed that "ordinary" people whom I know live on a FAR higher moral plane, I cannot work up too much enthusiasm in their favor.

Precisely beCAUSE Jefferson was a slave owner, means I can never extend the respect to him that his achievements might warrant. I dont blame either him or MLK for any personal flaws, as we all have them, while we may not have their personal temptations! Its just that if we are to hold them up as in some way worthy of honor, then they had better BE worthy of honor!

Regarding your exchange with Hellernot, I think Mike Adams is using a debating tactic to attract attention to his article. Successfully!

Sophia
I think my main complaint with MLK is his strong advocacy for socialism towards the end of his life.

MLK's history today is taught as if he went on some marches, made a fine speech, and then got shot a couple weeks later.

It was years later and in that time he became an advocate for socialism.

Conservatives have actually done a pretty good job of shaping MLK's message to create a much more "conservative" or "moderate" King.

He in fact did NOT believe in a color blind society. That's the stuff he said to mixed audiences. He believed in favoritism by way of socialism.

My secondary complaint is that he set the precedent for black Americans needing or having a "leader". There may have been a time when this was necessary, but that concept has long outlived it's usefulness and only serves to divide as charlatans like Farrakhan, Sharpton, and Jackson have attempted to assume the mantle.

But yes, he did do his part.


On the civil rights front,
If we are to have a day marking the movement, and personify that by honoring a person, I would have thought that Booker T Washington would have been a far more obvious candidate.

That's just me. Though I'm probably biased because of the emphasis he placed on the powers of education which has been my own tiny contribution to humanity! Apart from that though, I have always found his life story inspirational.

Hellernot
I imagine if I were able to bring back a "trophy" rifle from Baghdad, it would be my favorite as well.

But this is not my grandfather's army.

My favorite WAS a customized Polytech M14S done up by Smith Enterprises. Big Red Birch stock from Fred's, fiberglass bedded. National match sights, tuned trigger, Harrington and Richardson bolt fitted. Receiver heat treated, entire rifle cryogenically treated. Had to eat the in the mess hall exclusively for a month and a half to afford all that. I used to do okay with that at matches.

But I just recently got an unfired post-64 Model 70 Match Rifle, which I fitted with a Zelenak rear and Lyman globe front. Firing prone at 300 yards with that is quite rewarding.

Booker T. Washington Day
I would support that.

Why is adams comparing
A white Mormon Inventor (wikiPedia) with a black civil rights leader? When you further consider that Mormons felt blacks would not be allowed into heaven until some 30 years ago, it does seem as though Mike has a racist streak.

By golly, BHL,
You are very quick with your "racist" slander. If you have read Mike Adams take on Mormonism, available in the archive, you would KNOW that he is NOT a fan of Mormonism. As noted by Kaye above, whom I understand to be a Mormon.

Are you saying that all Mormons are racists? Because if by praising one mormon who was particularly inventive makes one a racist, there is no end to how that term can be misapplied.

Are supporters of Mitt Romney racist? Is Mitt Romney himSELF a racist??? Jezzz.

Also, BHL,
You will note that Mike Adams doesnt admire Mr Browning beCAUSE he was a "white Mormon." He admires him because he was a particularly INVENTIVE one!!

How to save our gun owning rights-----
The best way to assure that we will be able to continue to use guns to protect ourselves from the growing and ever more dangerous criminal element is to elect a President who favors gun ownership and constitutionally based individual freedom. There is one candidate who meets those criteria to perfection--Dr. Ron Paul of Texas. He has the long demonstrated convictions and integrity to stand firm for gun ownership against all opposition from the liberal establishment (who, according to what I have read, almost all secretly own hand guns for their own protection). When and if the liberals win total control and gun ownership is outlawed in this nation, it will certainly be time to move to Switzerland and marry a Swiss Miss to qualify for permanent residence in that peaceful, law abiding land. If Dr. Paul is not elected, I may move there just to live in a relatively sane place on our globe for a radical change.

I didn't like Ghandi either
Sophia, I'll be happy to answer you:

I dislike MLK because I'm a racist.

There, happy?

With that out of the way, I can answer you.

First, MLK did NOT give anyone voting rights. Those rights already existed.

Second, he was a socialist.

Third, I look at my country, black and white, prior to that movement, and I look at it today. I hate what my country is today. MLK is at least partly responsible for it. I see nothing to celebrate in the destruction of my nation.
"Well, we cured the patient of indigestion."
"Yeah, too bad we cut out his stomach to do it."

Fourth, it's not MLK I dislike so much as his "day". It preserves and promotes the racial divides that the race-baiters profit on. It may not be intended that way, and MLK may not have intended to destroy the U.S. Oh well, it's *results*, not intentions that matter at the end of the day.

equality uber alles
more thoughts on the so-called "civil rights movement"...

(addressing Sophia) you liberals seem so obsessed with "equality". That philosophy of envy is what led to the horror of the French Revolution and the greater horror of the Russian Revolution.

When the pre-civil-rights-era blacks wanted "equality"... most of them seemed to want the good things the "white folks" had. I can remember the quote, "We don't want your daughters, we just want an education!"... well, they got our daughters and didn't get the education.

But our daughters aren't getting an education, either, so it's all to the good, right?
If we're all living in a cesspit, well, it may be a cesspit but we don't have to worry about envying someone who can climb.

Clothes that don't fit. Piercings, tattoos and other barbaric affectations. "Music" that is nothing more than a thumping base drum at top volume.. Lyrics that are nothing more than foul-mouthed chants. Neighborhoods and entire cities where the police are out-gunned by the gangbangers. Rampant drug abuse. Ridiculous illitarcy rates for both blacks AND whites.

But hey, we're all suffering equally, and equality is what is important, not improving the QUALITY of the society as a whole.

And the so-called "Civil Rights Movement", or as I call it, the communist "Cultural Revolution" was the initial assault on the health of the nation.

ColinCody
But will Ron Paul allow us to take our soldiers armed with guns and go kick the snot out of some other country because it's Wednesday?

I won't support Ron Paul because he won't support the Empire. He's about 200 years behind the times.

Oh, Man....
I can't believe you guys fell for that and allowed this thread to get hijacked off topic!

This column's about guns, John Browning and the work ethic.

King's name was thrown in there once, in the first paragraph, as a joke. The second time, partway through, as a contrasting example to Browning's originality and creativity.

This column's NOT about civil rights.

Oh, well......

BrianR
Well, I thought I summed up and closed the topic with my

Browning > MLK

comment.

/shrug

Yeah, jdw
I saw that, and thought it was great, actually.

I wonder how many people here understand set symbols, though.


Three Things
First, SOPHIE, MLK tended to lead women and children into confrontations with the police KNOWING that they might get hurt. Today we call that "creating MARTYRS for the cause".

Second, the artical was pretty much written TOUNGUE IN CHEEK, that means it was a JOKE. But then, I noticed that Liberals are a pretty humorless bunch.

Third, here's a funny story about John Browning:
The Army Air corps was testing an air cannon and it wasn't going well. they called in John B, who looked the thing over inside and out before asking "Where do you put THE BAIT?"
When asked what he ment, John said "This is obviously some kind of RAT TRAP, because it sure isn't an automatic cannon!"

Character matters-----
Sophia, perhaps I'm just old fashioned, but, as an elderly Christian systematic theologian, I would not approve of a national holiday in honor of a man or woman, black or white, young or old whose character is such that he or she would not qualify as a mere Sunday School teacher in my church. Booker T. Washington would qualify easily, but Martin Luther King would not be allowed to teach anything to anyone in my church. He may have accomplished some good for African American civil rights, but he was a womanizer, a bogus Christian, a bogus Christian minister, a deceiver and a plagerizer. King does not come remotely close to meeting the biblical standard for being a Christian or even a good, decent, manly man much less someone who should be honored with a national holiday. That should be strictly reserved for a person of sterling moral character who has made an enormous contribution to society in some extremely important way, someone like Booker T. Washington. We should exchange Martin Luther King day for Booker T. Washington day.

Oy!
I guess the gun talk's over.




Sayonara!

To JDW---
Yeah, JDW, I'm sure glad Dr. Paul's approach to government goes back to our founding principles as you can fully appreciate. That is why I contend that he is the only modern politician who can deliver us from the pit of corruption and delusion into which we have fallen. The others are all dangerous clowns to one degree or another.

Dr. Adams
was not seriously advocating that MLK day be abolished or saying that MLK did not contribute a lot as a civil rights leader. His suggestion was a rhetorical device to argue that civil rights does not have to be narrowly defined as regarding race relations and that Browning, who most would not think of as having anything to do with civil rights,contributed much to civil rights by helping us be victorious against enemies who would have ended them and by providing many excellent ways for us to enjoy our Second Amendment rights. My previous sentence is 68 or 69 words long;William Faulkner, eat your heart out.

Nothing against John Browning...
The man was a genius, no doubt about it... But there ain't a Browning semi-auto loading shotgun ever made that can match the performance of a Benelli Super Black Eagle... If you don't believe me, ask Tom Knapp...

Sophia said

"I can't imagine even at Townhall there would be a negative opinion about the Civil Rights movement..."

----------------------------------

Sophia, I get the impression you haven't been posting here very long. Being anti-civil rights, anti-Martin Luther King and pro-McCarthyism is right out of the conservative playbook. (See Ann Coulter's last column).

Have you ever listened to Michael Medved's program? He never mentions King's name without also commenting on the supposed fact that he was not always faithful to Coretta.



OOOoooookay!
Convo's gone from ridiculous to sublime.

I'm outta here!


The Benelli is a landmark
piece of work, but give John his due. Do you compare the Spad with a YF-111? There have been fewer years of engineering from the Spad to the YF-111 than there are between the Auto-five and the Benelli. I prefer the Savage model 99 to any of Brownings' lever actions, but for sheer volume of ingenious work, Browning is hard to beat.

Went from guns, a fun topic,
to another drab and boring debate on civil rights and MLK.

The topic was totally derailed.

Having libs on this site is about as much fun as having your wisdom teeth extracted without anesthetic.

Libs lay awake at night, worried that someone somewhere is having a good time.

Can't have THAT!

And on that cheery note, Goodnight, Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are!




John Browning
Great column.I was not aware of Mr. Browning's accomplishments.
Truly a great Amwerican!

Not racist
I disliked MLK Jr.'s politics, he was a communist and invoked Marx's works several times.

I do not think giving a communist a holiday was a wise thing to do. I do think he helped change the way blacks were treated in America and help stop the separate but equal thinking that was going on in America.

John Moses Browning was a true patriot and his works have made our country stronger and were used to liberate more people from opression than those liberated from oppression by MLK Jr.

John Garand Was Born in January Also
While he was born in Quebec, Garand's family came here when he was a youngster. Certainly, the man who invented the "greatest battle implement ever devised" (according to General Patton) deserves at least honorable mention. The M1 saw major action in two wars and its successor was in at least one more. I believe that the M14 (with Garand's design) is still in active service with special units in Iraq and Afghanistan. A January holiday could honor both of these giants.

Garand
I recently read a comment from Kalashnikov concerning John C. Garand.

In an interview, somebody asked him his opinion of Garand as an inventor while suggesting that he wasn't all that great because he had only invented one rifle. The M1.

As best I can remember, Kalashnikov said, "When you get it right the first time, you don't spend the rest of your life designing guns for museum exhibits."


And one from Garand
No sooner did I post that one, was I reminded of a pretty good quote--and lesson in laconic speech--from John Garand himself.

He was asked by an interviewer if he wanted to make a statement about his contribution to the war effort.

Garand replied, "My rifle speaks loud enough for both of us."

Hmm, which reminds me of yet another quote concerning the Garand rifle.

I think it was 1938 or 1939 when civilian shooters were able to first put the then new M1 Garand through it's paces at Camp Perry during the National Matches.

One female shooter apparently shot a very good group at a distant target. An grizzled old Army sergeant standing behind her growled, "We ought to roll that target up and mail it to Hitler!"

A couple of years later, Hitler would get a demonstration.

As a Civil Servant
Citizen Carrier,

John Browning received greater benefit from his designs during his lifetime. As a civil servant working at the Springfield Armory, John Garand received only modest accolades and no special financial reward for his design, despite the contribution that it made to the war effort.

I like the basic Garand design. Of course, having Mini and Maxi-14s in my safe makes me a little biased. I just need a GI .30-06 M1 to complete the set. I should have bought one (or more) a dozen years ago when they were still relatively cheap.

CMP
Well, CMP if you happen to be an American.

http://www.odcmp.com

Go to the rifle sales section.

I recently bought one of their "Special Grade" M1 rifles. Completely refurbished to like new condition. Hope to use it at the John C. Garand Match at Camp Perry next summer. Provided I can get the leave time from Kuwait.

Of course, if you get the Garand, you'll naturally need to get an M1 carbine too!

Citizen Carrier
Well, it just so happens that I am an American. Don't let the funny nickname fool you. I'm not even of Greek descent.

I didn't think that the CMP had any weapons remaining that are as nice as you describe. I see prime examples at gun shows for anywhere from 1.5 to $2K. Some cost more than NIB M1As. I used to see rack upon rack of very good M1s in Texas gun shops for a few hundred bucks each back in the '90s.

My club is getting involved with the CMP. Here in the People's Republic of New Jersey, obtaining weapons can be a challenge. Both the state officials and the domestic authority (my wife) erect roadblocks. I'll try to smuggle one past the wife. The differences from my current rifles are small enough that she may not even notice.

Thanks for the tip.

Brainiacs With Bow Ties
Must not have the answer to how Solar Panel Power will be transmitted to Earth in the Gore Millenium. And I thought I was on the edge of finding the answer!

M1 Carbine
Citizen Carrier,

Hey, the M1 carbine may be even easier. Not only are they cheaper, but on casual inspection, my wife may not be able to distinguish it from my Ruger 10/22. You're putting ideas in my head that may unbalance my domestic budget. LOL.

Critical Bill
To assert that Mikhail Kalashikov's design of a single, inherently inaccurate gun, the AK 47, eclipses all John Browning's accomplishments is about as logical as suggesting a high school football team could be competitive in the NFL. Either Critical Bill is completely ignorant about Browning's accomplishments; doesn't understand the significance of Browning's innovations or has simply out of his mind is a problem Critical Bill must address. Clearly, nobody should accord Critical Bill's dribble even abject consideration; in fact, his comments aren't even worth reading.

Jazzman
Jazzman: "his comments aren't even worth reading."

I sort of figured that out after "clipped tie" comments he made...


BrianR and Sophie
BrianR: "Went from guns, a fun topic,
to another drab and boring debate on civil rights and MLK.
The topic was totally derailed."

I dont agree with you. There is no "one" topic as you know from posting regularly. That's fine. You can have your discussion about guns, and ignore the comments on MLK and civil rights. So, BrianR, I would suggest that you ignore the remainder of this post!!

Sophie:
I previously said we were singing from the same hymn sheet, but I should have qualified that by saying I think we are seeing different notes!
For myself, I have to say I havent given much thought to MLK day, but now that I HAVE, I dont like it very much. For that alone, Mike Adams has surpassed himself, because this is the first column he has written in ages that has made me think out a position on something.

First off, I dont think having an ANYone day is a particularly good idea. But if we ARE to have a day dedicated to a black civil rights leader, I would say we have picked the wrong one.

The problem with dedicating a "day" is that the choice is always arbitrary in the end. Does not the Union soldier who lost his life fighting for the Union, leading to the end of slavery, not deserve HIS day? And so on. There just arent enough days to go around!!

Jimmy Joe
"The problem with dedicating a "day" is that the choice is always arbitrary in the end. Does not the Union soldier who lost his life fighting for the Union, leading to the end of slavery, not deserve HIS day? And so on. There just arent enough days to go around!!"

We do have such a day, it is called Memorial Day. For the longest time Memorial Day was not celebrated in the Confederate States, just because of that reason. The Confederate States had a different Confederate Memorial Day and stll do, but it is fading. After WWII that former Confederate States began to accept Memorial Day.

Swampfox
Fair point. The only thing is that Memorial day commemorates ALL those who died in ALL wars. Imagine trying to commemorate EACH individual soldier.... This is what I meant by saying that there arent "enough days to go round!"

So given that we cant do this for "all"... and I cant see any greater sacrifice one can make than to give one's life - then I would be reluctant to do it for any ONE.

Memorial Day history
Memorial Day was officially proclaimed on 5 May 1868 by General John Logan, national commander of the Grand Army of the Republic, in his General Order No. 11, and was first observed on 30 May 1868, when flowers were placed on the graves of Union and Confederate soldiers at Arlington National Cemetery. The first state to officially recognize the holiday was New York in 1873. By 1890 it was recognized by all of the northern states. The South refused to acknowledge the day, honoring their dead on separate days until after World War I (when the holiday changed from honoring just those who died fighting in the Civil War to honoring Americans who died fighting in any war). It is now celebrated in almost every State on the last Monday in May (passed by Congress with the National Holiday Act of 1971 (P.L. 90 - 363) to ensure a three day weekend for Federal holidays), though several southern states have an additional separate day for honoring the Confederate war dead: January 19 in Texas, April 26 in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and Mississippi; May 10 in South Carolina; and June 3 (Jefferson Davis' birthday) in Louisiana and Tennessee.

Re Disgraceful Civil Rights
Re "Today the Civil Rights movement has become a disgrace because it is based on the idea that people are entitled to things they didn't get from their own labor...".

Like the right to vote? To freedom of speech? To assemble freely? To live and attend school in whatever neighborhood they can afford? To sit in any seat on the bus?

As far as "getting things" from their own labor, much of the point of Civil Rights law is that black people formerly could NOT get the fruits of their labor. Ask black elders about this, and you will hear many a tale of people with a college degree being limited to janitorial work or domestic service. Labor unions were closed to blacks. Of black professionals we used to hear "Well, he SAYS he's a lawyer" or "He SAYS he's a doctor". A black person, however high his income, could not buy any house he wanted. He could not even buy a ticket in any theater he wanted, eat at any restaurant he wanted, stay at any hotel he wanted, or buy a fur coat in any store he wanted.

The Civil Rights movement is a "disgrace" only to those who don't believe in civil rights being accorded equally to all citizens, regardless of their race or ethnicity. Just last week on townhall a poster attacked an Asian-American poster for "writing slander toward his betters" (vd Talent Scout 12-10-07 7:46). One likes to think that in the United States we don't talk about an ethnic minority person as having "betters". Such talk, to me, is a disgrace.
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