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Monday, May 07, 2007
Mike Adams :: Townhall.com Columnist
Seeking Trophy Wife: M.R.S. Degree Required
by Mike Adams
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I have a friend who’s going through a rough time in his marriage. Recently, his wife told him she was moving out and getting an apartment for six months so she could “find herself.” In typical feminist fashion she asked him for some money to help pay for her lease, power, and cable deposits. One of her main criticisms of him was that he offered her unsolicited financial advice. Had she listened to her husband she wouldn’t be in such a fix. So I told my friend to give her a copy of the book Catch-22 instead of writing her a check. Maybe she could “find herself” in a twelve dollar novel by Joseph Heller.

Of course, when I hear of married women making idiotic statements like “I need to go find myself,” “I need to learn how to be me,” and “My husband and I should be equals in every respect of the marriage” I’m forced to make one of two conclusions. First, the woman is not taking the medication her psychiatrist prescribed for her. That can be cured by simply telling her to take her damned medication.

But the other conclusion - that she is just a bad wife because she got a bad education while she was in college – calls for a more complicated cure. That is why today I’m asking colleges across America to put an end to the jokes about M.R.S. degrees by actually starting M.R.S. degree programs nationwide. With all the talk about sexual diversity it’s high time we started to celebrate nuptial diversity without all this useless banter about gay marriage.

No reasonable person could be opposed to M.R.S. degrees for women who aspire to be “nothing more” than a wife and mother. The most important job any woman can ever hold is that of a mother. Important people like teachers can have an effect on thousands of students, but no teacher can have that much of an effect on a child she only knows for one year. Mothers, on the other hand, will influence their own children for about fifty years.

Last week, Fox News ran a story saying that if housewives were paid they would make about $138,000 a year. This number demonstrates that there is a great deal that goes into being a stay-at-home mom. But is the average college graduate prepared to handle these responsibilities? Not without an M.R.S. degree.

A student who chooses to pursue a bachelor’s degree in M.R.S. would receive a true liberal arts degree. She would take classes in general areas such as history, English, and science, just so she can educate her children. She should take child development classes, educational psychology, first aid, and accounting, too. Culinary classes, sewing, interior design, day care management, safe driving classes and communication classes would also be required.

Of course, like any other major, the college would need to set up some new classes distinct to the M.R.S. major. I have several suggestions below:

MRS 101 - Why Ovaries Matter. Recently, a female student at Ohio University was attacked for saying she would want a male, rather than a female, firefighter to save her if she ever got caught in a blaze. Those who criticized her were under the impression that gender differences are simply socially constructed. That isn’t true. Men have testicles and women have ovaries. And both of these facts have consequences.

MRS 102 - Sexual Activity and Reproductive Choice. If a woman has a constitutional right to have an abortion, she certainly has a constitutional right to be a slut, too. But there is no constitutional right to exercise a constitutional right without consequences. A woman needs to know how being a slut in college will affect her self-image and how that will, in turn, affect her marriage or marriages later in life. And she also needs to know how sleeping with a lot of women affects the psychological make-up of her future spouse. “Equality” is not the only reason we need to do away with double-standards on pre-marital sex.

MRS 210 - Sex after Marriage. A woman has an obligation to keep herself trim and attractive after she gets married. She also has a right not to have a fat slob for a husband. That’s why married couples should work out together. That will do a lot to keep their sex lives interesting but they’ll need more than just physical fitness. That’s what this class will be all about.

MRS 220 - Spousal Communication. Some women who are married think it’s alright to talk to their mothers each and every single day on the telephone. That’s okay, unless, of course, she’s talking to her mommy about a marital problem her husband does not even know about. It’s not rational or adult to expect the man to figure out the problems you conceal. It’s far healthier to learn to communicate with your spouse directly even if it means there will be an occasional argument. And, for the sake of fairness and balance, there will be plenty of time in this class to talk about the consequences of marrying a momma’s boy.

Cait Jacob and Becky Banks join my wife and mother-in-law as some of the prettiest red-heads you’ll ever see. I thank them for giving me the inspiration to write this column. Because we need more women just like them, we need M.R.S. degree programs now. Our young men need good wives more than anyone needs another degree program teaching women how to become lesbians, feminists, and man-haters for life.

Dr. Mike S. Adams would like to apologize for the redundancy in the final sentence of this column.


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About The Author
Mike Adams is a criminology professor at the University of North Carolina Wilmington and author of Feminists Say the Darndest Things: A Politically Incorrect Professor Confronts "Womyn" On Campus.
 
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But, dear Dr Adams:
We would also need a complimentary MR degree program.

Suggested courses:

Testosterone - it's not just for growing hair. Get cahones and USE them.

Be the ROCK in your family - but not just on the couch.

Sports - not just for watching. Don't just watch the ball - pass it, catch it, hit it.

Take back the knightly code of chivalry - open the door and lower the seat.

Don't LET your MRS "let" you do all the work - learn to share.

Being a DADDY means more than a check.

You forgot a crucial course Mike!
You forgot a crucial course Mike!

Weapons 101 - Any good housewife needs to know how to protect the brood.

You forgot "Ain't going to change 001"
Too many spouses think that they can change their mate by sheer will, goodness, example or the passage of time. BS

You get what you got and all they do is get older. You have to accept that, come to some level of co-operation or you will be out in the meat market in short order.

It better be a pledge for life too, barring some insanity or like behavior. Most anything else ends badly.

The good news is that approach works because you are a team, more than a partnership and more that an "arrangement". You are bent on bring a good life to each other, not looking for the next opportunmity.

the focus of mandatory history
It's not enough to know a bunch of disconnected dates (1066 and all that), you have to know how they can apply to you. The focus should be on the greater good, and on what happens when it's-all-about-me. Both husbands and wives have to realize that they're part of something bigger now, and it's-not-all-about-me. I think that history would be the best field for this because you can plainly see what happens when you set up a system for a ruling Me (French revolution) and compare it to a system of its-not-all-about-me (USA). Comparing and contrasting the long term results should make even the most die-hard egotist re-evaluate whether they want to make a private hell for their kids.

If you live a righteous life then you (through your children) shall live in heaven. If you live an evil, selfish life then you (through your children) will live in a hell.

Successfull M.R.S degrees
Got a BA. Had 3 kids. Finished MA. Had another child. Have worked in my field (teaching) as an entrepreneur for 32 years. Married for 30. Told my secondary school grad fiancee that if he thought he would ever resent me having a degree when he didn't, he'd ought to go get one, which he did.

Never been sorry I went to school. Not sorry he did, either. Three of four daughters gone to school, too.

I was able to consult from home (sole-proprietorship) and raise children. I've imagined my life as I planned it - never marry; never have children. Become governor or superintendent of public instruction - and have thanked the Orchestrator of life many times for my failed plans.

Wife and mother. It doesn't get better than that. Hardest job you'll ever love, but it fits.

Mike S. Adams is an Mr. IDIOT
"I need to find my self" means his wife is either thinking about or already having sex with another man. Its over. Tell your friend to find his manhood. ITS OVER. That's all.

She does not need medication she needs to be honest, IT'S OVER. May be she is holding onto her clingy security blanket husband in case it does not work out, but its OVER. Deal with it like a man.

Tell him to get a lawyer and write up a separation agreement and lock the bank accounts and cancel the credit cards. Very simple, don't go past go, don't collect alimony.

Do conservatives not have any real balls? If there are kids, which you don't mention than that is the main concern. If not, just separate and make it legal.

As far as God, I am going to bet your friend and his wife are not church goers. News Flash, republicans and conservatives are not all holier than thou church goers.

I'm sure the wife was giving signs for a long time and the husband, your stupid friend, was too stupid to notice.

I don't know if this article is trying to be funny, but it is retarded. It is possible your friend is a little wimp with a small........ personality. Woman want men not little boys.

The M.R.S. degree is such an old term only people in their late 50's or older know. I know it because my Dad told me. The conservative HATE for feminism is just outstanding. Hate the liberals, hate democrats, hate MSM, hate illegal immigrants, hate freedom (right of woman to choose) and hate for feminist. The only thing republicans love is war and power it seems.

Look don't get married. Who cares what you do and who you do it with. If you are not man enough to keep your woman than you don't deserve a wife. In fact I know your friends wife. She is nice and loves men and you friend was not getting the job done. Tell him to shut-up, he's a whinny wussy like you. His wife is NICE!

jetpilot
I see you are up early passing on your usual "wisdom", taking your shot at conservatives, and insulting the columnist.

Ahhh, it is good to be able to count on the constants of life -- death, taxes, and "jetpilot" being a jackass.

jetpilot
As usual, you're out of your helmet and suffering from oxygen deprivation. Manhood? How can drive-by metro/homo sexuals like you talk about 'manhood' without making any/every one around you laugh?

Try your sagacious human relationship analysis, complete with all the clever ad hominums, on an Oprah appearance - her crowd will love you.

What about prayer, Mike?
Dear Mr. Adams,
I both agree and disagree with you. It's important for men and women to continue to grow, learn and develop both together and independently. If one of the two feels trivialized or neglected, this can lead to other issues which can turn into problems within the marraige. "I need to find myself" means that attention should be made to these issues. Both self identity and self sacrifice are important components although you do not allude to both. There is a reason that divorce rates in the US are high and those in the Phillipines are low.

I agree that the most important job any woman can have would be that of mom. I disagree that teachers cannot have a profound effect on students. I pray for my students, and continue to pray for those I have been called to for years after they have left my class. Prayer sir, is indeed an effective intervention, for the war we fight is unseen, we battle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers not seen with mortal eyes.

Now that you have pointed out the problems with American women, perhaps you can tell your loyal readers what YOUR probelms are....

G.Houtchens
armchair coach
amateur historian

Edit
Please forgive me- Doctor Adams~

I didn't know you needed...
...a college degree to marry and rear a family.How did our ancestors manage?My father went to the THIRD grade before he had to go out and work(they could do it in those days).My mother had to quit school after the eighth grade,and then she had to go out to work.Together they raised 10 children,of which I am the youngest(and the first with a college degree).Marriage and raising a family is natural,not a result of formal education.

primus,Acetate
You got it...Jetpilot is not just out there,he's gone...
Mike Adams, you always get it and you're good. :)

Once Again
Dr. Adams nails it.

Well, now - great additions!

I'm leavin'
I'm leavin 'on a jet plane
Too bad jetpilot is insane

We need to add more than M.R.S.
Higher education is a total joke. The problem Adams addresses here is endemic, insofar as the system turns previously rational people into cognitive idiots upon receipt of the B.S. Medication will not help this disease. Only a wholesale top to bottom revision of the curriculum.

jetpilot
Wrong! Wrong! No hate here for democrats,liberals
feminism,illegals,MSM and a womans right to choose. Just feel sorry for people who are always
wrong,like you.

The classical education
This subject was covered admirably by Florence King in one of her books which I have somewhere. The "MRS" degree was called a "Westchester Degree" when I was a kid; it was defined as a degree that provided a woman with enough education so that she would not embarrass her husband in company, and to allow her to advise him that naming his new line of motorcycles "The Virago" was a bad idea because a virago is, er, Hillary Clinton. (No man is going to buy a motorcycle that tells the world he identifies himself with a shrill, emasculating lesbian b***h.)

I have a classical education that allows me to speak on any subject in any company, to relate my current time and place in the world to what went before me, and to come up with an apt quotation from the classics for all occasions. I can also do research and write reports in concise, succinct language and with handwriting that anybody can read. And my kids can quote from many sources and can argue logically because I taught them to do so; they also know enough of at least French and Spanish to get along in any country, as they did not have to find themselves in Switzerland without any knowledge of French before they understood how important it is to speak classical languages.

I did not become a wife as it happens, since I found that there is no longer a need to settle for whoever might want to marry me just to have A Man. But a classical education has done me far more good than the education in computer science did my best friend, who discovered that by the time she graduated, COBOL and FORTRAN were obsolete and her education was in vain.

As for teaching a woman how to be a wife, that would be something you could learn in night school or on line, if you haven't learned any of the basics from your mother. And the number one course I would start her off learning would be this one:

PANTIES OR BOXERS: NOT JOB ONE. The first day of class everyone would be required to make a list of the responsibilities incumbent upon the adults in the household, without regard to whether that adult wears panties or boxers -- just one single list. Once a corporate list was agreed upon, the class members would be handed a chart with columns labeled Male and Female, and asked to tick boxes to indicate whether each task can only be done by a male or a female. (e.g. Childbirth -- female; impregnation -- male). The class would discuss these choices and come to an understanding as to why each task chosen was or was not specifically dependant on what sexual equipment was contained in the adult's underwear. Traditional ideas that some things are naturally masculine, the physical limitations of either gender in certain activities, and the talents and abilities of the persons involved would be discussed. Students would be encouraged to take the lists home and get the feedback of their boyfriends, husbands, fiances or brothers in law. Eventually a good working idea of the responsibilities of a married couple would come down to "This task should be done by the person who has the talent and ability to do it, regardless of whether that person wears panties or boxers."

Actually your parents should teach you that. But night school can augment what Mom and Dad didn't teach you or didn't know.

One sided reporting
Did you report her side? Was she leaving for a reason? I think it's in Adams' nature to take sides first and not worry about the facts. In marriage, in Iraq, in global warming, etc.

AudiR10
I always enjoy reading your comments as much or more than the columnists. Please keep contributing. I am curious about your moniker. Do you prefer to drive Audi's? You've made mention before of racing cars.

Trophy Wife
Well as a woman, I think it'd be fun to be able to be somebody's 'trophy wife'. Unfortunately mediocrity and lack of common sense is rampant in society, with this article being a classic example, and a sense of social conscience and responsibility makes it impossible for me to be able to entrust the running of the world to losers like this guy. How inadequate as a man he must feel to dream of women only cooking and cleaning for him. Does it intimidate him to know he will likely never achieve the level of influence that Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi have? I'll bet Hillary and Nancy would have been happy remaining moms and grandmas, except they too are surrounded by idiots incapable of optimizing the expenditure of social resources to maximize the greater good.

I'm not going to diminish guys by arguing that they ought to just be trophy husbands because the majority of men I actually meet are awesome! AND hot!

PS
Actually, let's get real - most guys don't really care what I choose to do with my time in terms of accomplishments, they only care that I'm apparently hot. So the guy I end up marrying'll probably think of me as a trophy wife anyway . . . but he's probably likely to see me as somebody who respects him, understands him, appreciates him, and who challenges him to be on top of his game. Even if the allure might be my looks, I doubt he'd ever describe me as 'pretty' and think I'd feel flattered.

Nam65-66
Nam65-66 writes: "My father went to the THIRD grade before he had to go out and work(they could do it in those days).My mother had to quit school after the eighth grade,and then she had to go out to work."

Those were the days when and education equated to learning the "3Rs" - today's education equates to the indoctrination into peonism (communism).

Various
To Nam 65-66: In some states Mom doesn't need a college degree, or even a high-school diploma, or even an elementary school transcript, or anything in fact, to be a homeschooling parent.

To Adams and others: If MR becomes DEAD at an early age then MRS is going to be SCREWED unless she has a marketable skill so she can WORK and earn some MONEY. Also if MR runs off with some little girl who is HOT.

People who need to "find" themselves ...
... are not "lost", they are just finding out that another person can't make you happy. They have bought into the marriage myth that their spouse is there to make them happy, and that just ain't so.

No one can make them happy, but themselves. A caring spouse will aid them in their search for happiness (I try my best) but in the end, each of us must find a purpose for our life and a sense of fulfillment from doing our best to achieve that purpose.

Once America catches on the the marriage myth (promoted by the billion dollar marriage industry, I predict a sharp drop in our divorce rate, as well as the number of people trying to 'find themselves".

lilly
And your point is?

My mother had to quit school in 10th grade to help with the family business but that did not stop her from teaching her kids to read, do math, and instilling a love of learning, etc. All five of us are professionals and two of my siblings are running their own businesses.

Have you ever LOOKED at a home schooling book or are you merely talking out of your other end like you normally do?

It is written for ease of teaching and serves one purpose, to TEACH not to indoctrinate.

re: Lynne
Are you talking about me? What exactly is it I don't 'get'? Actually all I ever see from you is complaints about how many people 'don't get it' . . . maybe you're just not that articulate?

thx

OMG
"If a woman has a constitutional right to have an abortion, she certainly has a constitutional right to be a sl_t, too."

I'm LMFAO!!!! That's too funny dude.

jetpilot
Apparently you know nothing about conservatives if you think we "hate" everyone you listed. Most of us don't waste our sitting around hating the left, instead we focus more on trying to help get this country back to being great again. That why we do care about freedom and liberty, which equates to less gov't. I don't hate liberals, I just don't want them making any decisions that affect the safety and security of this country. One other thing, why is it you automatically start w/ the name-calling aimed at the columnist? Can't you debate the topic or article w/o resorting to childish rants? Debating requires one to speak more like an adult.

One of the students in
One of the students in a college course that I recently taught was a returning adult student obtained her MRS degree at a traditional age, had kids, and then finally got traded-in for a newer model. She was exceptionally bright, and in my opinion, getting "dumped" was the second-best educational experience she ever had.

-Trentamj

Clarification of Point
Yes, my larger point I guess was that maybe his friend's wife thought she could entrust the employment aspect of the partnership solely with her husband, but when he wasn't supportive of her growth and was condescending towards her she realized he was a jerk.

I really don't think women ever aspire to "nothing more” than a wife and mother" and if Mike Adams doesn't 'get' that about women, and thinks a woman who desires self-actualization is crazy, then he's the one that needs the education on how to be a M.R., not women. My was a wife and full-time mother and when she decided she wanted to do more with her life, my dad was supportive of that even when it meant he had to share the burden of household duties. I can't imagine being married to a guy who would think such desires means a woman needs prozac.

Good riddance to him.

afsarge
Great post. I agree, putting liberals in charge of national security is like putting a loaded weapon in the hands of a 4 y.o.!

BTW, I hate liberals like I hate rats, squirrels, and other pesky varmints! Basically for their nuisance factor.

Lynne
Well I already told you that I'm not married, and I'm probably half your age. I'll take your inability to elaborate on Mike's 'points' as affirmation that you really aren't that articulate, and just because you've got experience as a mom doesn't mean you're actually good at it - maybe you are and maybe you aren't, but since you seem to lack the ability to understand others whose opinions differ from yours and then become intolerant, I would guess you probably aren't one to talk . . .

Lynne
I'm guessing that she was dropped on her gourd a lot as a kid.

SamtheCat, Lily
Sam-Where do you get the idea the Dr. Adams thinks women are only for cooking and cleaning?? I don't get that impression at all. Reality is that cooking and cleaning are necessities in life and unfortunately we are raising generations of women who don't know how to do either one. I get so frustrated with women who feed their families frozen dinners or ruin their budgets by eating out all the time. Their excuse is ,"I don't know how to cook". I just want to scream , "Do you know how to read ?????". Reading and trying are the only prerequisites to becoming a cook. There is simply no excuse.
By the way, I also feel that I have gained more marketable skills being a homeschooling mother, than I ever did in college.
Lily-- don't ever homeschool; from your rants I can tell you are not qualified.

Trophy Wife
I am a Trophy Wife and love it. I am married over four years, and my beloved spouse and I made the decision before marriage that he would be the head of the house, and bring home the bacon, while I stayed home and raised crumb crunchers. (That part hasn't happened yet, to our great distress) Money is tight, but we are far happier than DINKs. I have a baccalaureate in History and Political Science, I served my country and was in law enforcement for over 10 years. Thankfully, my husband helped me to rescue my femininity!!!!

re: mom
Yes, you're right - that was kind of a stereotype I made after he called his friend's wife crazy, but that may not be accurate. My thought process was something like well why would his friend's wife need to leave the marriage to grow unless she felt her husband was somehow thwarting that growth? And why on earth would a husband thwart his wife's growth - what's it to him? Well if his wife was busy and involved in other activities that would leave less time and energy to devote to things that matter to him - probably cooking and cleaning.

That assumption could be wrong though. Of course based solely on his article, the author seems to only talk about his wife in terms of being a sex partner, so maybe that should have been my description of him instead . . .

Lynne
No actually that wasn't articulate at all - all it shows is that you're insecure and NEED to cut down people who make you feel small, whether that was their intention or not (and it was not my goal to make you feel small). I'm not posting here to 'one-up' you, I was commenting on a subject that was about women/work/and home. All you ever post about is you, and quite frankly I really don't find you that interesting . . .

PS
Lynne if I'm wrong about you, just walk away and don't answer . . .

afsarge
I thought your post was tremendous. My only problem is why you bother. Jetpilot seems nearly illiterate from a close reading of his post-maybe it was just very early.

I can't wait for ANIMALGIRLISBACK to give her always insightful commentary. She is the self-professed best mother in the world. Isn't her 2 year old reading Shakespeare already?

LGM
I don't think "the other side of the story" is relevant in this case....if his wife wanted to leave just so she could "find herself" what is is there to tell?

Lilly DOES have a point...
...I just wish she would keep it under her hat.

jetpilot
You made a big mistake. Don’t you know that your comments are only valid if they agree with everything the author wrote? See here, you can’t tell others to act like a man or get balls. Sure, those comments get splashed all over TH constantly, but only when they are used to reaffirm the author’s point. And, it’s always wrong to speak in generalities about conservatives unless you’re listing how great they are. Yes, they fill entire threads describing why they hate the things you listed, but that in no way make it right for you to tell them what they hate. Only liberal’s can be subject to such abject generalizations. That’s because liberals are this evil spawn of sub-citizens who are committed to destroying the whole world through their hatred of all that’s good.

Yeah, finally
Mr. Mike tells it like it is. Women think too much and are educated way beyond their station. They need just enough education to fulfill their proper roles as wives and mothers. It really is the most important job in the world, which is why they should do it properly, without pay. And they shouldn't complain just because they weren't born with testicles (except for those freak men who were and got them removed, against what God intended). Women don't need to be "themselves" (whatever that means). And women need church more than they need a "higher" education. This country would be a lot better off if we went back to sex-segregated schools, let men learn without having to interact with women in the classroom, and women could learn those skills that will really serve their families and CHILDREN. Divorce laws need to be rescinded. Divorce laws in this country hurt children and MEN because they make women think that their primary goal is to find themselves, just like Mr. Mike says. They should use what free time they have for keeping themselves thin. Women in this country are too fat, which is why married men are driven to find sex elsewhere. The women they have sex with are wh*res, unfortunately, which is all the more reason that married women should take care of themselves so as not to drive away husbands who just need to act on the testosterone that God gave him when He made male genitalia the way that he did. So called "feminists" seem to think that men should not follow the way that their testicles tell them to go--a natural, masculine way, and instead be like women. But God made women to serve as men's sexual outlets, not to spend his money or find "herself," but to serve her husbands sexual needs and to raise her children when she isn't doing that. That's what a real education is about. Thank God and Jesus that Mike Adams is teaching our children the truth about men and women.

-
Lynne that's awesome - actually that's one of the reasons I'm waiting to get married . . . because I figure it's probably easier to make marriage work if you've had a chance to figure out who you are and I don't think I'd be able to manage single motherhood alone! I am truly in awe :)

PS And congrats on your daughter - you have every reason to be proud! :)

Cookie
Thak you. I guess its in my nature to at least answer some of the idiotic things some people on the left say. I get tired of seeing these people try to cast their warped view of what conservatives think, like, hate, or whatever out there as if its truth. When I read some of the posts by the libs here, I get the impression a lot of them really do think like Rosie, at least the vocal ones. The very idea that someone w/ those views could become the next president is a scary thought indeed.

Pandora
Women who leave their husbands to go "find themselves" are not difficult to figure out at all. They do it because they can...and they are fully coddled and supported by the family law. In a study of court documents and divorce records I believe in Virginia, it was proven that, of all "no fault" divorces filed, nearly 80% were filed by women. Further study looked for mention of micro causation that the couple chose to leave out to try and make it less combative, like abuse or adultry, and found that in 7% of the female filed cases there was mention of "men behaving badly". The rest were indeed filing to "go find themselves". If a person marries and then makes an idiotic statement like that, it is the pinnacle of narcisism. Especially when children suffer for this selfish silly woman's whim.
The problem is that under today's laws, regardless HE is out of the house and away from the kid's (this womans apartment notwithstanding). I am seeing more and more written about this, as more and more men are directly impacted. The fems here and elsewhere cry the same crap about men being afraid of strong women etc. Bull! Someone mentioned the Phillipines. Why is it that "those" brides represent a group with a 19% divorce rate? Fems will say because they are servants. Somebody please ask the women before speaking for them.
No, it is because culturally they adopt a traditional role, the role the fems put down as they go in massive numbers on depression meds and on "finding themselves" excursions proportionate to the distance they put between themselves and a society comprised of traditional marriages.
I cannot change nor do I wish to change a fems mindset. But I can direct my sons and men in general to please not marry a woman who has yet to "find herself".. such a silly concept as to be utterly meaningless.

MikeR
Really? Exactly which threads are filled w/ ways how conservatives "hate" the things jetpilot listed? The problem w/ you libs is that you think just because we don't agree w/ you or your positions, that we automatically hate you. As a Christian, I don't hate anyone, but I do strongly disagree w/ most liberal positions on the major issues in our country. I don't hate illegal immigrants, I just think they should be treated like any other criminal who breaks the law. I don't hate liberals or democrats, I just don't agree w/ them on what's best for this country. In fact, I like some democrats, like Zell Miller. Too bad the democrats don't have more like that in their party. I don't hate freedom, in fact I love freedom and liberty, and am willing to die to defend it. That's why I stand firmly against most liberal policies that strip away our freedoms and enslave us to the gov't. I think the problem is you and jetpilot really don't understand what conservatives believe and how we think. If you don't know something, just ask, we'll gladly explain it to you. I have no problem explaining my views to others because I firmly believe they closely follow what our Fore-fathers wanted for this country.

Gunny
Ah Gunny. Have you bought in to the notion that experts are intrinsically stupid and know less than people who are not experts?

I think it was George Wallace who, running for governor, campaigned against what he used to call "eggheads". I recall him saying, "A college professor doesn't know anything. If his car gets a flat tire, all he can do is stand on the side of the road and cry.".

But then, it's a free country, and populism is a fine old American tradition going back to the frontier. I bet the guy who fixes your car is a good mechanic. Next time you need open heart surgery, why not have him perform it?

Electives
You might want to add some electives. I suggest

Girlie-girl 101 - Shaking that money maker and keeping the old man happy even AFTER 20 years of marriage. Ever seen a guy who after 20 years of marriage is not afraid to grab a little "sugar" from his honey in public?

Canning 102- My buddy's wife grows all kinds of veggies and cans them for the winter. She makes a killer grape jam. Takes alot of work; and alot of "want to".

Quilting and Sewing 103- My mother and her mother were the best quilters. I still have some of my Grandmother's afghans. Beatiful stuff.

When my mom and dad hit on hard times my mother taught herself to make dresses for my sisters. And she used one of those old manual Singer sewing machines.

My buddy's wife is making her daughter's Prom dress. You should see her work. Talk about talent.

Cooking like grandma 201 - You think men don't rave over good cooking? Try again. Every woman in my mother's family can cook like a pro. And even Emeril would kill for a slice of my mother's ham dinner.

Yep, the old-fashioned stuff still works. So does sending flowers to the "little lady" on Mother's day.

If you do get the little lady something on Mother's day, might I also recommend that you put on a little Alan Jackson. "Remember When" works real well.....











Finding Herself
I too am familiar with this. A couple in our church(see I admit even we Christians mess up) broke up after 10 years of marriage and 2 children when out of the blue the wife told the husband she didn't want to be married to him anymore and needed to go "find herself". Shortly thereafter we found out that she had been seeing and wanted to marry the husband of another couple(also with 2 children). So because of this woman's selfcenteredness and the other husband's willingness 2 families were destroyed. We are destroying our society, people, with these attitudes toward family and responsibility. Total personal freedom without consequences is a myth from hell and our country is going there in a handbasket if we don't start teaching maturity and responsibilty again. If you are not willing and able to accept the consequences of a committed marriage relationship then do society a favor and stay single and childless.

Mike S. Adams writes:
".....Recently, his wife told him she was moving out and getting an apartment for six months so she could “find herself.” ......."


Poor lady, doesn't appear she understands what is lost.

She is in complete touch with herself but has lost such things as honesty, integrity, commitment, veracity, honor, truth, charge, duty, imperative, need, obligation, responsibility.
Account, admiration, appreciation, consideration, esteem, estimation, favor, regard, respect.


Those old things that are the answer to bring happiness in spite of problems of this life.

The Old Values that ONCE was esteemed and produced the strongest nation in the world.

Nah, she has no need to search anywhere to “find herself.”

Her problem is she is full of herself.



talent scout
"Her problem is she is full of herself." ROFLOL.
Great post!!!!

the obvious
I think that people are too polite to point out that educating women makes them much more like men. That is just wrong! Sleeping with an educated woman is like sleeping with an man (and that is an abomination!). Educating women makes men gay because it makes women more like men. Just like patriot11C says, women need to learn to cook and sew! I bet you anything that if you looked at the numbers among women who properly cooked and sewed (and who weren't fat and who raised their kids properly) you would see a very low divorce rate. Educated liberals are causing divorce rates to go sky high in this country, and it is time to get rid of those laws and stop the absurd notion that women should find themselves through education rather than through a moral education that you would get an any proper (non-feminist!) church. Old Values, god-fearing Christian values, are what we need. (And canning! I forgot the canning with the cooking and sewing.) We all know uppity women who get too full of themselves and who don't want to be told the truth about how God made the world. It is the fault of co-education and feminism.

Mike
Touting that $138,000 figure (or such figure) can have real, negative consequences for men in divorce proceedings. This is likely to be misunderstood, but I am compelled to point out that non-working spouses - not all necessarily mothers - have the benefit of:

housing
utilities
food
clothing, makeup, etc.
transportation
medical
entertainment
incidentals

while "services provided", mother or not, are amateurish (your point, I believe) and do not warrant numbers assigned as though they were equivalent professional wages. Nor are "hours worked" fairly calculated.

This argument for the "value of women" is another radical feminist gross generalization, similar to the undifferentiated "men unfairly make more money" rant, that gets very one-sided treatment in court. Just ask any divorced father.

Good article
I can't imagine classes like that at good old UNCW, though. You might as well expect a class called "How to be a political conservative." Unfortunately, it's not gonna happen.

finding yourself
any notion either I or my wife had about "finding ourselves" were put on hold for 18-24 years while we help our child find herself.

Jetpilot is hypoxic
Maybe you should keep your mask on when youre at two five oh there guy. Maybe you shouldn't get a stupid name on here like jet pilot, so that people wouldn't associate you and your poor grammar and spelling with the military. You're probably the kind of guy who would quit UPT if you couldn't be a fighter guy; in short, a pilot and not an aviator.

Go back to saying "cranium" and "container" and convincing yourself how cool you are, instead of removing all doubt that we may have had as to the level of stupidity you have.

PokerGuy
Alright, Pokerguy! You're right on target there. There is no certification system that would let us determine if women were qualified to do the job of wife and mother, and often when they become wives and mothers they are VERY amateurish. Radical feminism has tried to paint a picture where wives and mothers are "professionals" or as if they had "value" like men. Men are unjustly forced to PAY for women who then use the court system to subsidize a very selfish way of life, abandoning men and children. Moreover, women do not show the proper gratitude for those things that men provide: housing, utlities, food, clothing and makeup (yeah! do you know how much THOSE cost?!), transportation, and the medical benefits it takes to keep women healthy. No gratitude at all to what men GIVE them. As if what they did was equivalent to anything professional, given all that they get in return for FREE.

Radical feminism, stemming from the education of women, has destroyed this country. I don't really see how we can reverse the damage that has been done to men and future generations.

M.R.S. Degree
Reading comments is an education in itself. I lived through all this feminist stuff. One point totally missed by all - a substantial majority of these feminists, who wanted independence, freedom from men, their own careers, etc. ended up in protected jobs - public sector and universities. True many went into business where there is, horrors, a risk of losing your job but most didn't. So did they really become "independent" or did they shun men and take a job with security? And then decide to wreck the next two generations of women with their hangups?

I also taught in public schools and now teach at a public university. Everyone would benefit if we returned to content, critical thinking, and true communication vs. the indoctrination that occurs so frequently today. BTW I also retired from a major corporation - I've been on both/all sides. I'm also very happily married to a wonderful man - he's my "Renaissance (sp?) man" and calls me his "trophy wife" - never had it so good.

I agree with techreck...
this "finding yourself" is such a cop out term. I think marriage is so over-rated by our society, you need to be happy with yourself instead of sucking it out of a spouse. So many women(especially) still aspire marriage/motherhood as the be all/end all. But guess what?? There are a lot of women out there who are simply NOT maternal. Too selfish, whatever. Unfortunately they often realize this AFTER they have children. But this same concept often applies to men.
Believe me, I would've been quite content to keep my M.R.S. status. But thank goodness I had a career to fall back on when I was suddenly a single mom. Things often don't turn out as planned.

Jetpilot
Your sophomoric screeds remind me of the melodramatic teenage daughter who screams "Why do you hate me?" anytime her parents insist on boundaries, good choices, and personal responsibility for her actions.

I think your mother needs to restrict your Internet access.


MRS
We already have an MRS degree program in Virginia. Its called Longwood University.

Eran on "independent" women
Good post. The so-called independence of modern women was achieved by substituting an individual man's security with the collective security of governmental socialism - in effect, government has become their proxy man, but without the need to make the quid pro quo contribution required in a union of individual man and woman.

just another example of...
The social effect of feminsim gone bad....
Let me begin by saying that I believe women are just as valuable (if not more so in some situations) as men.
I believe that women have much to offer.
BUT, I also believe it is asinine to make the claim that this is a result of people hating feminism.
My mother and father have been married going on 30 years.
My dad is an attorney, my mom is a retired teacher.
When she was growing up, she was told her choices were teacher or secretary. She didn't care what people said, but became a teacher from a desire to teach and encourage children to learn. She always made sure that her kids learned how to think for themselves, not how to repeat ideas.
That made her unique.
But when she became pregnant for the first time with my older brother, she decided that the most important life she could affect was her own childs and took a leave of absence that turned into a quasi-retirement when I came along 2 years later.
She took a total of 5 years off, then went back to teach. A year later, she retired again because she was blessed with another child. She stopped teaching and a few years later went into real estate part time after studying for and receiving her license.
She did that for a few years and my parents decided to have another child.
She retired again.
8 years later, she decided to go back into teaching.
I remember the look in her eyes when she went back to work. It was inspiring.
But times had changed. Rumors mean more than fact when it comes to tenure decisions and parents didn't like her. They didn't have a problem with her style, her knowledge, or her ability to teach. They didn't like her because some of her kids didn't do their homework. At parent teacher conference night, she told several parents that it was THEIR job to make sure their kids did their homework.
Well, they didn't like that much.
After all, they argued, they worked for a living and just didn't have time to review their kids homework with them.
So they started a petition to have my mother tenure denied. They made up a story about her 'throwing books' at kids. Of course, there was no proof or evidence that anything like this ever happened.
As a matter of fact, she had received excellent reviews on her professionalism, teaching skills, and ability to convey the information. She *should* have received tenure, instead she was terminated.
She sued.
And settled out of court.
Who is to blame? Working mothers who value their own careers over their childrens education and well being.
Somewhere in the course of feminism breaking through silly restrictions on what a 'woman could be', a very important message was lost.
That family is the most important thing. That being a mother was the most valuable job there is. That being a wife *meant* something.
Marriage is a joke now with more than 50% of them ending in divorce.
Women grow up now thinking they SHOULD be business people, lawyers, Doctors, etc. They grow up being told that they don't "need" a man, that they should be independant, and NEVER rely on a husband for anything.
This has created a sociological void.
To be clear, I am NOT attracted in the least to trophy women - women who put beauty before brains or act stupid because they think it's sexy.
It is not.
My girlfriend, who I just might marry, graduated from an ivy league school, hold a masters degree, and is now pursuing an MBA.
Believe me, I'd MUCH rather let her work so I could raise any future children. This would allow me to have a strong connection with my kids and teach them values. Plus, as an added bonus, this would give me the opportunity to play more video games ( :-) ). jk. Sort of.
But we've discussed it.
We both agree that kids need a parent to be accessible, there, involved, and a big part of their life.
50+ hour work weeks for both parents do not allow for this.
And that's one reason that kids are so screwed up nowadays.
Besides, all a married woman has to do to 'find herself' is open her eyes and behold the magic of a family, recognize her important role in that family, and realize that she is the greatest thing a woman can aspire to be:
a good wife
a good mother
and a good person.
Work shouldn't define your value.

Lynn
But I think Mr. Mike's point is that women don't take responsibility for their choices and realize how the system and feminism drives men away and harms them. Mr. Mike also wants us to understand how women neglect themselves (through getting fat and trying to "find themselves") and how it is their responsibility to get a TRUE education (an M.R.S. degree) that would then allow society to avoid the situations that you have just outlined.

Oh, and men should try to exercise, too. But women have forgotten how to be women and it is the fault of radical feminists and educated women who want us to believe that we should talk about women's proper place in society in terms of money and adequate renumeration for their services (sexual, househhold, and childcare). It is clearly radical feminists fault that in the example you gave that man left the woman who was his wife and the mother of his children, because those educated women who took the places of deserving men in tenured university jobs taught the men to devalue what women did. It's their fault and they should be fired and women should be properly trained.

Jeffislouie
Exactly, Jeffislouie. We need more women like your wife who understands her place and is willing to let you take care of the home but play video games too. And we need to go back to a system where women are teachers or child care workers. That would be in keeping with their skills, though I guess they can also be waitresses and maids, too, because those skills are important for keeping a house clean and a man fed. Without feminism women would be much happier with their place in society and men like Mike Adams wouldn't be persecuted by the women who run his department and his university (a woman as "chairman" of a department! of course it went badly when he was up for a promotion given how talented he is).

Lynne
That's PokerGuy, thanks. :-)

As I stated, my point would be misunderstood or, in your case, ignored. I did not say or imply that women are worthless. Far from it. I would say, however, that a conscientious 16 year old babysitter can, and often does, provide an adequate substitute for a distracted mom.

And as for radical feminists, they invented the dispute regarding the "$ value of women." Where do you think it originated? Oh no, not THAT industry...


There is life after sex - 101
Married couples need to know that marriage is more than looks and sex. A relationship is best if based on a faithmate agenda; ie. like loving each other into heaven. There is something in the saying: " The family that prays together, stays together." And I mean praying to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. If a couple truly has God in their marriage, they are going to make it! Look what has happened/is happening to our country since so many have pushed GOD out of their lives!

Why are we so afraid to talk about God and His role in our lives? Yes, put HIM, (Father - Son - Holy Spirit) our Creator, first in your lives (marriages) and watch the blossoming take place.

We spend so much time trying to make our marriages good but that falls so short of the mark. We need to do what is necessary to make our marriages Holy. And that starts with each person living a Holy life. Don't criticize the idea....just do it.

And when the devil comes around and tries to mess with you or your marriage tell her to return into hell for all eternity!!!

May the Peace, LOVE, and Joy of Jesus and His Mother Mary be in all your marriages! God Bless!

Shannan
Given how many people react positively to Adams in the comments, it is clear that he expresses a conservative viewpoint. You do not. Women should be "trophy wives" with "M.R.S." degrees. What part of that don't you understand? To the extent that there is divorce, it is the fault of radical feminists. The extent to which white, heterosexual men fail can be measured by how we educate women. Educated women emasculate men and cause them to be infants (for example, staying at home and playing video games). When men fail morally it is because women failed to educate them properly (when they were boy children under the care of working mothers) or because women drove them to it (they got fat and unattractive).

What about this don't you understand? Clearly the comments on this thread reflect how conservatives really feel?

Shannan you call for "standards" but that is just a key to the fact that you're really a LIBERAL.

Shannan
TH has a standard: It's called the First Amendment; i.e. Free Speech. Even liberal spew is tolerated.

karennkc
I think it is pretty clear, "karennnc," that you are a radical feminist. Why would you draw attention to the slaughter of real young men on Bush's battlefield and away from a discussion of the PROPER role of women in this society is clearly a diversion technique and propaganda.

Conservatives need to discuss the proper role of women in society and ignore what is happening in Iraq, in my opinion. Bush and Cheny are taking care of the war and everything will be fine. We need to stop uppity, educated women from ruining the American family. Mike Adams understands what is at stake. It isn't about the death of many more thousands of Americans and tens of thousands of Iraqis. I am tired of LIBERAL propaganda about the Iraq war and the deaths of American soldiers. This is more important. It is about American masculinity.

nutnfinr
Good post. I read in a milblog the following comment from a woman living in Al Anbar province.
You know...deep in the Sunni Triangle? She said:
The Marines are more respectful of the culture than the average Iraqi is. She concluded that "The Marines are more Iraqi than Iraqis are".

Bet you won't here that in the MSM. They're too busy counting the dead and enjoying it. The Germans have a word for that kind of weirdness: They call it: Schaddenfreud.

For myself
I long for the days when women and men accepted nature and were not as smart as they are today with the higher(tongue in cheek) education.

Feminine qualities are a gift of God.

Just as the qualities of the man.

Think of the peace that would sweep over the land if we all just stopped fighting nature.

I have learned that I am my own worst problem and the very best critic that exists for me.

In fact I alone am the expert when the subject is me, and that is the same for us all.


The lady of the topic is digging herself a deep hole and may not ever recover and find true happiness, not when her path leads her to be a covenant breaker.


Men or women matters not, both are subject to the same failing or success.


If you were busy being kind,
Before you knew it you would find
You'd soon forget to think `twas true
That someone was unkind to you.

If you were busy being glad
And cheering people who seem sad,
Although your heart might ache a bit,
You'd soon forget to notice it.

If you were busy being good,
And doing just the best you could,
You'd not have time to blame some man
Who's doing just the best he can.

If you were busy being true
To what you know you ought to do,
You'd be so busy you'd forget
The blunders of the folks you've met.

Author Unknown







On Being a Wife and Mother
I was married twice, my first husband passed from complications of diabetes, my second husband and I parted ways amicably after we discovered we didn't suit.
My children are in their thirties and responsible men in positions of responsibility. They turned out well, despite my inexperience and the upheavals we put them through as young parents with our craniums planted firmly up our anal orifices.
I am pretty much on my own now, I had to learn to make a living and support myself after being a stay at home wife for most of my adult life.
My point -and I do have one- is that having experienced both types of life, I much prefer staying at home, making my home inviting and comfortable for my loved ones. I hate being alone, working every day, because work is all I have to fill my time.
I know how to cook, clean, make quilts and do the canning at harvest time after growing a garden or gleaning a field or orchard. I'd love to do this again - but I guess now I'm too old to attract someone who'd want a wife less interested in the money game, whose sole purpose would be top make her loved one content and happy to come home every night.
I have the degree, wish I could use it!

Family and Feminism
I observe that it is unwise for a man to marry a college educated American woman today.

Because of the feminist courts (highly educated government employees), the man will risk losing his wife, children, property, eighteen years of income, and his liberty.

In America I also observe a feminist treats a dog or cat better than they treat a man.

Feminists convinced the American Bar Association to create the Family Law section in the courts, then introduced no-fault divorce law in 1960 (cf. The Uniform Divorce Bill)

http://www.abanet.org/nawl/about/history.html

Roman if only
The expression, The family that prays together stays together, has become little more then something we like to say in church...unfortunately the numbers don't bear it out. In "the church", and especially in the south where supposedly it is more conservative, churches are experiencing more divorce then secular society. Christians have more kids, therefore Christians are producing more divorce damaged kids then secular couples. Why? For the twisted reason that, sometimes inadvertantly and sometimes intentionally, churches aspect of being a built in support group can tend to incentivise women to file divorce, like the moron Mike mentions in his piece who wanted to find herself. It has bred a form of evangelical feminism, based ever so stealthily on women changing their husbands and they want to do from day one, while husbands wish wives would never change from day one. It is born of controlling Christian women having been convinced, and indeed convincing men, even pastors, that men must be fixed, and then and only then can marriages work.
No Roman, the "church" (protestant, conservative like Baptists especially and others) is a force FOR divorce and doesn't even know the deception. It is not perceived, it is real....the numbers do not lie, but the church will not do more then treat the symptoms...alcoholism, depression, suicide attempts, debt, codependence, etc.
I wish I could still hold to what you believe, and indeed in its pure form it is still true, but few are the churches that really really support marriage....most are just supporting women and "follow your heart" type notions.

Ah, Mark...
So typical.
So sad.
Apparently, you don't bother to read what people write before making your ridiculous statements.
And the funny part is that you display your stupidity from the first line you write...
I don't have a wife.
I have a girlfriend that may become my wife, and I her husband.

"We need more women like your wife who understands her place and is willing to let you take care of the home but play video games too."

I'm not entirely sure what point you are trying to make, but I gather it is typical nonsensical BS.
If you bothered to read what I wrote, my girlfriend is way more educated than I am and is working to get her MBA so she can do more and climb the ladder faster and more effectively. I am proud of her for that. And, for the record, she may not be willing to let me do that at all - she understands the value of family. She seems to want to be the one who gets the honor of being a true mother to her children. But that may change. I would be honored if she were to allow me the priveledge of raising our children. And playing more video games. I would especially enjoy that.

"And we need to go back to a system where women are teachers or child care workers. That would be in keeping with their skills, though I guess they can also be waitresses and maids, too, because those skills are important for keeping a house clean and a man fed."

At no point did I offer that, so this is yet another example of a strawman argued by someone incapable of discussing anything, much less the complexities of gender roles in modern families.
For the record, as it stands I cook all the meals we eat in together. She doesn't cook a thing. She CLAIMS to be able to cook, but I don't believe her. In the three years we've been dating she's cooked exactly one. And we eat in alot. The other night, my parents took us out to dinner and during that dinner, we laughed about the fact that we haven't eaten out since February. That means I've cooked dozens of meals. She's cooked zero.

"Without feminism women would be much happier with their place in society and men like Mike Adams wouldn't be persecuted by the women who run his department and his university (a woman as "chairman" of a department! of course it went badly when he was up for a promotion given how talented he is)."

Two things on this, you silly, silly goof....
I don't think feminsim should go away. I think it needs perspective. Feminism began as a means to correct a mysoginistic culture. We still have a ways to go before that happens. But surely you agree that the best a woman can be doesn't involve mimicking the worst traits of men such as: obsession with work, loveless marriages, ignoring their families, working 60+ hours a week, and removing emotion and love from your life.
And, for the record, it is ridiculously clear that Dr. Adams is uniquely talented and a shining example of educational excellence. His review record in his department is nothing short of stellar.
And did Adams ever make the claim that he was denied tenure because of feminism?
Of course not. Another strawman.
From a foolish person so confused and confounded by his own ideas that he thinks he is involved in a debate when the fact is side he is debating against exists only in his (or perhaps her?) imagination.

this is for certain
Mike knows how to get an audience going. By the way conservatives don't hate feminists - feminists have enough hate for all involved...

Finding yourself
I have had many men attracted to my financial stability and independence, suggest to me that they'd be happy to be "house husbands" while they "find themselves" and my response has always been "Not at my expense, buster." I am now attracting the attention of older men who want, in the words of my sainted Aunt Sadie, "Either a nurse or a purse."

However, I will say that my youngest sister who married at age 18 (barely) has commented that she became a different person at the age of around 25 and not just a pale copy of whoever she happened to be with at the time, and that she thinks it would be better for most women to marry after having seen a bit of life instead of before. So that is another viewpoint.

P.S. AudiR10, the "Whispering Audi" is proof positive that if the Germans would stick to designing racing cars, life in Europe would be a wonderful experience and nobody would ever complain again about noisy race tracks. It would, however, be bad for photographers, who have no warning when the Audi R10 pulls into its pit box and since the Germans are so quick, no time to click off a few shots before it's back on the track again. Swim with the Sharks, Run with the Bulls, Race with the Germans.

Ohimesama
I wouldn't give up yet. My uncle found himself a widower at age 64. Three years later he remarried. Imagine remarrying at age 67 ?
Well, now it is 10 years later and he's still married.

Just goes to show that it's never too late to start again. Best of luck to you.

karennk
The quantity of soldiers that we've lost fighting against the Islamo-fascists to defend our nation is minute compared to the quantity that we lost in WWII - fighting to defend Stalin & the Marxist pigs.

You are indeed a "useful (blathering) idiot".

That shrewd analysis
lilly writes: Monday, May, 07, 2007 8:31 AM
Various
To Nam 65-66: In some states Mom doesn't need a college degree, or even a high-school diploma, or even an elementary school transcript, or anything in fact, to be a homeschooling parent.
----------------
GunnyG writes: Monday, May, 07, 2007 8:45 AM
lilly
And your point is?

My mother had to quit school in 10th grade to help with the family business but that did not stop her from teaching her kids to read, do math, and instilling a love of learning, etc. All five of us are professionals and two of my siblings are running their own businesses.

Have you ever LOOKED at a home schooling book or are you merely talking out of your other end like you normally do?

It is written for ease of teaching and serves one purpose, to TEACH not to indoctrinate.
----------------
lilly writes: Monday, May, 07, 2007 10:03 AM
Gunny
Ah Gunny. Have you bought in to the notion that experts are intrinsically stupid and know less than people who are not experts?

I think it was George Wallace who, running for governor, campaigned against what he used to call "eggheads". I recall him saying, "A college professor doesn't know anything. If his car gets a flat tire, all he can do is stand on the side of the road and cry.".

But then, it's a free country, and populism is a fine old American tradition going back to the frontier. I bet the guy who fixes your car is a good mechanic. Next time you need open heart surgery, why not have him perform it?
----------------
Why would someone ask a car mechanic to perform open-heart surgery? Oh, that artful effort at humor again?

The problem you're equating, Lilly, is a result of the poor education standards that the education community developed as an all-inclusive methodology of evaluation has mired our children in a pool of despair without a prayer for change. Teaching materials exist that could easily develop Bachelor-level discernment from rote memorization and in some cases the home school crowd uses those type of instructional materials to overcome gaps in personal knowledge. Either way, I'm sure caring, loving parents would do better than my Trig teacher that spent the majority of the year trying to date girls in my high school, or the Physics teacher that ran a real estate business from the science lab, or the English teacher (she was also my father's English teacher) sleeping through most of the school year in our classroom.

But unless someone churns out hateful hedonists that only think of their bodies as personal vassals of pleasure I'm sure your education community things the job of indoctrination has failed. Do they even have 'responsibility' in the dictionary you use?

Ah Let the libs spew
Who cares what they say. Conservatives should find liberal spew entertaining. It just gives me more reasons to remain a conservative. I find it encouraging.

Ability
The past 40 years have proven that a woman can do virtually any job a man can do. The problem is that nobody bothered to ask the question "should they?". Children need mothers far more than they need the money from a second income (most of which is spent on childcare!!!).

The feminist movement betrays itself when it suggests that for a woman to be validated she must prove herself "as good as a man". They curse masculinity, while at the same time holding it up as the gold standard for FEMALE behavior.

They regard childrearing as "unfulfilling", and regard any reference to "women's work" as degrading. Even writing the term makes ME uncomfortable. But the truth is that there are some ares where women are generally BETTER able than men, such as making a clean comfortable home. What could be more important? Child-rearing I suppose. Yet these are the things that feminists think are "degrading" to women. It is the feminist who devalues a woman's contribution to the family, not the traditionalist.


There is more to feminism
Than who cooks and cleans. The deeper you look the more insidious it becomes. By its nature it is impossible to hold court with because it will always make the common but flawed argument about "not every woman is like that" or any number of such true but irrelevant comments. We men have our share of the blame here because we fear women. How many men do you hear saying they need to ask the wife? And the reverse?
How many men are running away with young things?
Whatever your answer, why do they do that? Being no excuse for it makes little difference. There is feminsim buried in there too.
The evangelical feminists want men to do something completely unnatural....that being talk talk talk talk about a problem never dare fix it, so that the women will do something that is natural...but she doesnt want to....be intimate with her husband. Thats evangelical feminism, man earning wifes favors, not with money but with baloney

Jeffislouie
Apparently, you didn't read Mike Adams's lawsuit. According to him he was denied a promotion (not tenure) because of discrimination against him as a conservative, Christian male. Adams has made it clear that radical feminism has poisoned UNC-W.

You really need to read his writing, Jeffislouie. And I am glad that you have found a girlfriend who "lets" you cook and play your video games. That sounds like an ideal life, that does. She's really lucky that you "might just marry her."

jetpilot, for those who don't know
claims to be an airline pilot. Scary, huh? To think we have folks like that up front. I actually hope this person is lying about that.

Believe it or not, JP, it's possible to disagree with people and not hate them. Count me and most conservative posters on this forum in that number.

Same goes for you, MikeR.

BOR - - - ING!
"Of course, when I hear of married women making idiotic statements like 'I need to go find myself,' 'I need to learn how to be me'...,”

This is the Myers-Briggs personality type NF, one who is always in search of the "true" self. Writers are rife with this personality type, and novels consequently are mostly about NF protagonists, which explains why a lot of novels are BOR - - - ING! to the rest of us.

What to Look For in a Wife
An excellent wife who can find?
She is far more precious than jewels.
The heart of her husband trusts in her,
and he will have no lack of gain.
She does him good, and not harm,
all the days of her life.
She rises while it is yet night
and provides food for her household
and portions for her maidens.
She considers a field and buys it;
with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard.
She dresses herself[e] with strength
and makes her arms strong.
She perceives that her merchandise is profitable.
Her lamp does not go out at night.
She opens her hand to the poor
and reaches out her hands to the needy.
Strength and dignity are her clothing,
and she laughs at the time to come.
She opens her mouth with wisdom,
and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.
She looks well to the ways of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness.
Her children rise up and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praises her:
Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain,
but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.

Proverb 31

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=proverb%2031&version=47

Trophy Wife
Definition:

trophy wife



1 definition found

trophy wife - WordNet (r) 2.0 (August 2003) :

trophy wife
n : a wife who is an attractive young woman; seldom the first
wife of an affluent older man; "his trophy wife was an
asset to his business"

Anyone who marrys a "trophy wife" is not marrying for cooking, cleaning and canning. They get what they purchasd.

Men also leave the family with children to find themselves. It happened to me. The best thing that ever happened to me.

hangtownhoney
Hangtownhoney, you mean to suggest that Mr. Mike is advocating that men divorce their old, first wives and find attractive younger women who understand the value of an M.R.S. degree?

Well, I guess men just have to be men. At least Mike Adams understands that.

Pi$$ Poor Parenting
Any man or woman who has to dump their marriage because they need to find themselves is a product of bad parenting. If you lack that much self confidence and purpose in your life it is because you were raised by the 'all about me' mentality. The probability is you will raise your children as well with that same mentality. If you do not know what your purpose as a man, woman, husband, wife, mother, father is you are seriously lame! And please do not procreate because you are weakening the gene pool. I feel very priveledged to be a wife and mother and I hope God makes me one in the next life. Being a woman is the single most awesome responsibility God could have ever bestowed on mankind. I wouldn't change places with a 'man' any day of the week...EVER! I got the better job and the most responsibilty. I welcome it! Who's in charge of sex? Women! Who's in charge of procreating? Women! Who has the most profound influence in the home and on future generations? Women! Who did God then put in charge to make sure the world continues to be born anew and succeed? Women!

HANGTOWNHONEY
Thank you for doing exactly what I described above. "Men also leave to find htmselves....." sure, but nobody said they don't, and it is not relevant! Why do women seem to want to live in the lower percentages What do I mean? Lets say for argument that, of the people who leave to "find themselves" it is 65% women and 35% men, right thinking people who wished to address the overall problem, may suggest that first addressing the women would be the right approach. Hangtown here, and many other women, could not do so, because they need to keep pointing out that, OOO OOO, OOO OOOO, wait a min ute wait a minute, but but but but, Men do it too!
Its like everytime a woman exclaims about a man raping a woman, what if a man alwys was standing around saying "but but but, women rape men too".

Geez, no issue will ever be solved until there can be focus, and most of the time that requires linear thought.

Advise from a MRS
I got a MRS and have been very happy with it. I've been furthering my education on the subject rather successfully for 11 years now.
My advise for your friend would be that maybe if he found his wife more often then she would not need to take time to find herself.

Lolo
Who's in charge of sex? Who did God put in charge? .....
I hope you aren't basing these ridiculous statements on any kind of Biblical marriage model. However, based on the actual Biblical marriage model, I'd sure rather be the woman as defined in Ephesians.

Rixie
Very common reaction...a woman makes a nonsense statement like she needs to find herself, and you dont question the meaning of the expression, which really means, hey, hey , hey, lok at me look at me, Im the best, Im pretty.
You blame the man.

Men,our problem ...
...was not in giving the women the right to vote.It was in giving them shoes!

ALL
Take a moment out to review my blog story on CHICKS AND GUNS! Seems the babes in Central Florida arming up. (You KNOW they ain't dating any liberal metrosexual girlieboys!)

Handy
I was LMMFAO about a year ago when Maureen Dowd was whining that no one wanted to marry her and I thought of the old adage, "why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?"

Thank YOU feminazis. Men across America thank you.

Patriot11C, you said
"Who cares what they say. Conservatives should find liberal spew entertaining. It just gives me more reasons to remain a conservative. I find it encouraging."
Oh that post made my day! I will think of it every time when reading various lib posts on the TH columns.

Lynne, in your latest post you said, "But, you know what's curious? The left can insult and degrade, and, oh yeah, the "name calling" etc., but heaven help the Conservatives if they say one "not polite" thing."
Tell me about it! You should see what insults and names were hurled on Matt Barber's latest column, the majority from the 'party of tolerance and diversity."

Cookie,
Truly I fell off my chair after reading your earlier post! Oh laughter, what would we do without it? Not sure if others quite know what you were posting in reference to...but it did not pass me since we were going back and forth with AGB on another column.

Lastly, Mike's points are well taken. I think too many (not all!) women have been fed the "you can have everything," "reach for the stars,""find your passion," "just dream and you can be anything" messages from the time they were toddlers. It has been the "me,me, me, nothing is more important than me and what I want" message which I believe has done more harm than good in the long run.

talent scout
Your posts are so full of wisdom. I liked your summary assessment that the woman in question's primary problem is that she's simply too full of herself. Sadly, it's all too often the case that when a man thinks he's selected a partner for life, all he's done is bring a psycho preditor into his home.

Teen girls want their MRS too
Throw the career super single mom under the bus!



mark, mark, mark...
And you really want to turn this into that kind of argument?
Awesome.
Fine, I'll play.
My bad! I wrote 'tenure' when I meant 'promotion'.

"Apparently, you didn't read Mike Adams's lawsuit. According to him he was denied a promotion (not tenure) because of discrimination against him as a conservative, Christian male."

I did read it, actually. In it's entirety. I like to geek out on law related stuff like this. I enjoy the language and the importance put on word usage in the law.

According to his lawsuit he was denied promotion because of discrimination, specifically:
- his conservative and christian beliefs

That's it.
The only mention of what you might consider 'radical feminism' was mention that Dr. Cook became the head of the department and is a feminist aethist who has been openly critical of christianity.
Specifically, she said "My image of a perfect candidate is a lesbian with spiked hair and a dog collar."
This wasn't alleged, it appears, to be an example of feminism gone wrong, but rather the wrong headed thinking of someone vested with the responsibility of recruiting top quality academic instructors.
It goes to prove that her way of evaluating potential educators was based on their sexual preference and their manner of dress (and hair style).
By the way, that statement stands in stark contrast to the ideals behind feminism, which places value on the ability of a person, not their gender, sexual orientation or personal style.

"Adams has made it clear that radical feminism has poisoned UNC-W."

He has?
Where?
How?
Go ahead and quote to me the part of the lawsuit, or any article he's written that says so. Because I haven't seen it and I've been enjoying his columns for a while now....
Maybe I'm wrong, but based on what you offer as proof, I don't think I am.

"You really need to read his writing, Jeffislouie."

Please see below, then decide for yourself who needs to read his writing.
BTW, he didn't 'write' the lawsuit. His attorney did. That's what attorneys do.

"And I am glad that you have found a girlfriend who "lets" you cook and play your video games. That sounds like an ideal life, that does."

Oh boy, I don't know where to start with that.
I guess I could ask you why you think my girlfriend "let's me cook and play...videogames."
I cook because I enjoy it.
I thought I made that clear.
See, when you put quotes around something, it means that you are quoting someone.
Did I ever say that she "lets" me cook?
I cook because I like it, yutz.
And I play videogames because I enjoy that as well.
What I said is that her working and me staying home to raise the kids would "allow me the priveledge of raising our children. And playing more video games."
She doesn't "let me" do anything. I am not some weak willed yahoo who needs permission to do the things I enjoy.

"She's really lucky that you "might just marry her.""

Again, jackass, you misquote me because you are intent on destroying the basic level of credibility afforded posters. Specifically, your own.
What I said was:
"My girlfriend, who I just might marry,"

I didn't say "might just marry her", I said "I just might marry".
Why do I point this out?
Because you are attributing a quote to me that is different than what I actually said. Sure, now its just mixing up a few words. Next thing you know, you are irresponsibly creating things that I didn't say at all....
But you are right about one thing. She is lucky. Almost as lucky as I am to have met someone as special as she is.
But I guess since I play video games from time to time and know how to read and understand things properly, she really might be getting the raw end of the deal.
Did it ever occur to you that she just might WANT to marry me? That she has already expressed her undying, unwavering love for everything that is me?
Ever been in a relationship?
Doubtful. I'd wager that you've pushed people away with your argumentative style and desire to twist words in an effort to change the meaning of what has been said to your benefit.
Either way, I don't really care for your opinion. It's abundantly clear that it is malformed and based on what you think you read, rather than the truth.
The mind is a funny thing. Weak minded people like you like to change things because you don't care enough to be accurate.
Try harder, squid.

truthspotlight
Of course I believe it. I don’t hate anyone here, but there are many with whom I don’t agree. They say liberals have no sense of humor or understanding of satire. I guess they’re not alone. I’m opposed to generalizations because they always prove false in the long run. Now I appreciate how much fun it is to make sport of jetpilot and call him names; and far be it from me to point out how juvenile that is or how it doesn’t advance one’s argument in the least. But I will say that base generalizations about liberals are quite common here and so is hating. You will find these elements amongst the comments on this thread as well as throughout TH. While I don’t doubt your sincerity, I would find your argument much more compelling if you actually confronted someone more conservative than jetpilot.

Lynne: What a kidder you are. There are some conservatives here that have never commented without including an insult, and they get applauded by others of their ilk. While I don’t engage in or agree with such behavior, I’ll gladly accede to your position. Just you tell me. Is it right or is it wrong? Then we will try the novel approach of holding both conservatives and liberals to the same standard.

This just in
After a late night discussion with Eleanor Roosevelt, Mrs. Bill Clinton announced the first part of her cabinet. No one was surprised that it was all female.

Secretary of: Defense----Jennifer Flowers
Education---Monica Lowinsky
Justice----Juanita Broderick
Treasury---Paula Jones
Energy----Kathleen Wiley
Homeland Security----Eleanor Mondale
Veteran Affairs---Linda Tripp

(this is just too easy)

MRS Degrees still exist
There have always been MRS degree programs: those “fun”, soft-science, degrees so overwhelmingly dominated by women: english, sociology, psychology, anthropology, women’s studies, education, etc. which guarantee that they will be unable to support a spouse & family, much less themeselves. Why? When given the opportunity most women still don’t apply to the lucrative “analytically-challenging” majors, e.g., Engineering. Most women still enjoy the “fun” majors because they believe that some dumb male will eventually support them financially. Half of all female Harvard MBAs are out of work force within 10 years- they found an ambulatory wallet that was willing to support them in the fashion which they were accustomed. Women are very liberated when the situation benefits them but quite old fashioned when comes to should stay at home and who should break their back in a job supporting both of them. Women are quite sexist by the very nature of their socially-reinforced sense of entitlement.

That being said, examine the ulterior motives of Feminism in general: “First Wave” Feminism was ostensibly sold as “equality of opportunity.” This is perfectly reasonable. The book “Why Men Earn More” ,by Dr Warren Farrell, extensively documents that when women are willing to make the same choices (same education major, same profession, same work hours, same work load, same personal sacrifices, etc.) as their male counterparts, women earn as much if not more than men. The problem is most women aren’t willing to make those choices. When this fact resulted in a failure to produce enough engineers & scientists to suit feminists, “Second wave” Feminism became all about allowing over-privileged women “equality of outcome” (e.g., Affirmative Action, quotas, Title IX, etc.) in the public domain while retaining their domestic power-base monopoly. Women are quite sexist when it comes to who has the choice of staying at home vice being the ambulatory wallet. Women may be sexually-objectified but men are “success” objectified by women. Now “Third wave” Feminism is all about overt “female-chauvinism” in the guise of gender Marxism: “Comparable worth”, e.g., education majors (80% women) should be paid the same as engineers (80% men.) Never mind that a post industrial, information technology-driven economy needs engineers more than education majors. Never mind that education majors have the lowest average SAT and GRE test scores of any academic major. Never mind that engineers work more days and longer hours & actually have to produce a “quantifiable” product.

Additionally, thanks to chivalrous male politicians & judges, women have the majority of civil, reproductive, marital, divorce, child-custody, and child-support rights in America. Result? Women are abusing “No-Fault Divorce”: women apply for 80% of all divorces while utilizing children as financial assets IOT leverage the largest amount of de facto Alimony: i.e., child support. Given their child custody monopoly, mothers commit 70% of all child abuse. Contrary to the implicit sexism of the $20B “Violence Against Women Act” women commit 50 % of domestic violence. Women routinely lie about spousal abuse and assault their husbands. WRT male domestic abuse, women routinely commit paternity fraud (1%- 25%) and legally force their husbands to pay for some else’s children. Thanks to the rape-shield laws women lie about rape 50% of the time. Women routinely employ abortion as de facto birth control that results in 25 % (1.4M) of all children conceived yearly being aborted for pure convenience. Also, those same chivalrous male politicians enacted social welfare programs ($1.4T per year) that benefit women at the expense of the majority male taxpayer base. Now society is electing female politicians who are in the process of accelerating the male to female transfer of income & opportunity. Sounds like a “responsibility-optional” woman’s world to me. Why is it always some woman implying that it’s a “man’s world” when that clearly isn’t the case?

MRS Degrees still exist
There have always been MRS degree programs: those “fun”, soft-science, mental masturbation degrees so overwhelmingly dominated by women: english, sociology, psychology, anthropology, women’s studies, education, etc. which will guarantee that they will have trouble supporting a famility & spouse, much less themeselves. Why? When given the opportunity most women still don’t apply to the lucrative “analytically-challenging” majors, e.g., Engineering. Most women still enjoy the non-lucrative “fun” majors because they figure that some dumb male will eventually support them financially. Half of all female Harvard MBAs are out of work force within 10 years- they found an ambulatory wallet that was willing to support them in the fashion which they were accustomed. Women are very liberated when the situation benefits them but quite old fashioned when comes to should stay at home and who should break their back in a job supporting both of them. Women are quite sexist by the very nature of their socially-reinforced sense of entitlement.

That being said, examine the ulterior motives of Feminism in general: “First Wave” Feminism was ostensibly sold as “equality of opportunity.” This is perfectly reasonable. The book “Why Men Earn More” ,by Dr Warren Farrell, extensively documents that when women are willing to make the same choices (same education major, same profession, same work hours, same work load, same personal sacrifices, etc.) as their male counterparts, women earn as much if not more than men. The problem is most women aren’t willing to make those choices. When this fact resulted in a failure to produce enough engineers & scientists to suit feminists, “Second wave” Feminism became all about allowing over-privileged women “equality of outcome” (e.g., Affirmative Action, quotas, Title IX, etc.) in the public domain while retaining their domestic power-base monopoly. Women are quite sexist when it comes to who has the choice of staying at home vice being the ambulatory wallet. Women may be sexually-objectified but men are “success” objectified by women. Now “Third wave” Feminism is all about overt “female-chauvinism” in the guise of gender Marxism: “Comparable worth”, e.g., education majors (80% women) should be paid the same as engineers (80% men.) Never mind that a post industrial, information technology-driven economy needs engineers more than education majors. Never mind that education majors have the lowest average SAT and GRE test scores of any academic major. Never mind that engineers work more days and longer hours & actually have to produce a “quantifiable” product.

Additionally, thanks to chivalrous male politicians & judges, women have the majority of civil, reproductive, marital, divorce, child-custody, and child-support rights in America. Result? Women are abusing “No-Fault Divorce”: women apply for 80% of all divorces while utilizing children as financial assets IOT leverage the largest amount of de facto Alimony: i.e., child support. Given their child custody monopoly, mothers commit 70% of all child abuse. Contrary to the implicit sexism of the $20B “Violence Against Women Act” women commit 50 % of domestic violence. Women routinely lie about spousal abuse and assault their husbands. WRT male domestic abuse, women routinely commit paternity fraud (1%- 25%) and legally force their husbands to pay for some else’s children. Thanks to the rape-shield laws women lie about rape 50% of the time. Women routinely employ abortion as de facto birth control that results in 25 % (1.4M) of all children conceived yearly being aborted for pure convenience. Also, those same chivalrous male politicians enacted social welfare programs ($1.4T per year) that benefit women at the expense of the majority male taxpayer base. Now society is electing female politicians who are in the process of accelerating the male to female transfer of income & opportunity. Sounds like a “responsibility-optional” woman’s world to me. Why is it always some woman implying that it’s a “man’s world” when that clearly isn’t the case?

Seeking Trophy Wife
I remember that there was once a major called
Home Economics. Wouldn't this fit the bill?

Nam65-66: Not quite
Nam65-66 writes: Monday, May, 07, 2007 3:18 PM
Men,our problem ...
...was not in giving the women the right to vote.It was in giving them shoes!

No. We should only allow the women who pay income taxes (top 50% of wage earners pay 96% of all income taxes)to vote because most success, professional women I've met are somewhat contemptuous of their "entitlement minded" sisters and fundementally resent having to subsidize the female-oriented "welfare industrial complex."

Lynne
The clergy avoid the submission parts, not the parts about mans role. Have you ever heard a preacher talk to women aboout submission without an apology before after and in the middle, so diluting the doctrine that it no way resembles what the Bible is saying. Even now the urge to explain myself is manifesting causing me to disclaim how Im not an ogre looking for a slave...

I asked my feminist...
...wife what she wanted for our wedding anniversary? She replied, "A divorce.” I said that I had not planned to spend that much money.

Q: How many feminists does it take to change a light bulb?

A: 1,001. One to screw it in and one thousand to say they are ready to compete with men.

Education is NOT an easy major!!!!!

I am not saying that there isn't a lot of bull in Education, but there are some real serous folk as well. K-12 is a vast wasteland and not everyone can home school. Higher educaiton isn't much better and it has been a quarter century since _A nation at risk_ came out.

Some of us are quite serious folk looking to fix stuff. Subversives in the belly of the beast. And if you think we get away with any fun mental masturbation stuff, think again...

================
Demosthenes writes: MRS Degrees still exist
There have always been MRS degree programs: those “fun”, soft-science, mental masturbation degrees so overwhelmingly dominated by women: .... education

Jeffislouie
Yeah, dude. I'm agreeing with you. You're a winner. You cook, you want to stay home and play video games. And your girlfriend thinks you're the bee's knees. That MBA-getting girlfriend, "who [you] just might marry." Dude, I'm agreeing. I'd have to poll the ladies on this one, but we're all agreeing that you're a real catch.

conservavitation
If you don't think women are in charge of sex then you ar picking and choosing the parts of the Bible that suits you best, instead of the whole. There are certain aspects in life that men are in charge of, and there are certain aspects that women are charge of. I wouldn't trade places with a man for all the money in the world. I think they got gipped. Sorry if I offended your sensibilities.

mark
You are a jackass.
Heavy on the a$$.
I am no loser.
Last year, I made 6 figures working in sales for a fortune 500 company.
What a loser.
I cook, and well (I considered becoming a personal chef/caterer but couldn't afford to quit my well paying job).
What a loser.
I would prefer to stay home with my kids and raise them.
What a loser.
My girlfriend, who is nuts about me, has an undergrad from an ivy league school, a masters degree, and is working on her MBA from the University of Chicago.
What a loser.
I'm considering marrying her.
What a loser.

Moron.
Ask any woman if she thinks a man who can cook is sexy and she will always say yes.
Ask any woman who wants to have a career if she would find that her husband wants to stay home and raise his kids sexy or not and you might be surprised that she finds this attractive as well.

Listen up, Mark. You just exposed yourself as a troll.
This post is a personal attack and nothing more.
I'm sorry, but playing video games makes me a loser?
Perhaps I should be out drinking?
Is any other hobby any more attractive?
Let's see:
I play 4 instruments.
I write music regularly.
I turned down touring with a few bands you might have heard of, you know - if not for the fact that your head is so far up your keister that you can't hear music well.
I publish a weekly humor blog.
I publish a weekly topical blog on current events.
I volunteer at homeless shelters.
I volunteer to build homes through habitat for humanity.
I donate money and time to various other charitable organizations.
I am an actor too.
But hey, you know all about how much of a loser I am because yes, I enjoy playing video games.
I'm such a loser.
Maybe I'll go jump off a bridge. After all, my life is so sad....
:-(
Poor me.
OR, you could try to debate the merits of my opinion. But that would be difficult. And would require that you back up what you say.
Since you can't do that and are really here as a troll, why not just go away rather than try to start a flame war?
Oh, right. Because I'm a loser. Not you! Oh no! You are a winner.
Winners spend time at townhall.com making personal attacks when they find themselves overwhelmed by reasoned discussions.
Why did you come here today, big winner?
Was it because you thought it might be fun to play with the adults?

Jeffislouie
And you're so modest. Could we agree that we've had enough of this - and you - for now?

my bad...
I shouldn't feed trolls and have made an effort not to do so.
My bad.
Sorry.
To MikeR's point, there is some nastiness to some conservatives, but one doesn't need to look hard to see liberal smear all over townhall.
It's almost as if they come here to antagonize people who think differently.
There are many who manage to refrain from posting angry, hate filled posts.
But sometimes it's all too easy to slip into that mindset.
Especially when reading posts by people who just love to make accusations like Bush lied, cheney is a heartless SOB, etc.
The blood boils, the anger wells up and it all gets released.
I don't hate liberals.
I hate liberals who condescend as if THEY are the only ones who understand the 'truth'.
The best I can say is that I always try to take things in stride.
Mark just chose to make this all a personal attack and I lost it.
My bad.
I'll take my meds and everything will be okay....
:-)

acetate...
I'm just curious -
How modest should I be when responding to being called a loser?
Just curious.
I never said I was fully awesome.
I did make the mistake of responding to someone who felt it necessary to call me a loser.
And just for spits and giggles - what was immodest about what I said?
Just curious.
Maybe I'm off base here, but it seems there are but two things that could be considered immodest -
me talking about my salary (bad taste, admittedly) and me proudly bragging about my girlfriend.
For both, I apologize.
But my girlfriend is a pretty special lady and I am proud of her.
Sorry.
The rest is just facts. I was trying to make a point and did so improperly. The point was that no one is a loser because their hobbies aren't something another person appreciates. One hobby doesn't define a person.
I'll go away for now.
the truth is that I was done with this a long time ago.


Family
Jetpilot made intelligent points.

Second, I'd add this for you born-again, family-values christians to consider:

Go back 2 centuries when we had slavery in the land of the free. Of what value were slave marriages? Apparently of no value to those christians who deemed their fellow man subhuman. So before everybody gets all puffed up about the "sanctity of marriage", remember how your christian ancestors behaved towards their fellow man, especially regarding "family values."

Jeffislouie
In answer to your question as to how to respond? You said it best when discussing whether to even respond to the trollers. Ignore them! I know that it is much easier said than done--we take those kinds of comments to heart and it hurts. But you won't be able to get this guy to change his mind so why bother...

Just my opinion...

Jeffislouie
Just had to say, um, Mark just made you look like a complete idiot. Read his posts, all of them, and what impression do you get? If you have to read them again, it's ok, I'll wait....now do you understand what his posts were all about? I just had to tell you so you would stop wetting your pants over his comments, which were purely satire and also hilarious I might add. You really didn't see that? I'm truly astonished. You need to loosen up a bit, try reading The Onion or joining Protest Warrior or something....

Dictionary
Could somebody please tell this ignorant loudmouth that "alright" is only a word to the 18- and 19-year-old public high school graduates he teaches...the ones who couldn't find France on a map if their lives depended on it?

Jeffislouie
"How modest should I be when responding to being called a loser?"

Since you asked, allow me to add a couple thoughts.

Your posts exhibited many of the indiscretions of youth. When posting, the idea is to keep it as close to the issues as possible without making it a digression into the personal.

I am totally opposed to the notion that particular personal characteristics are required in order to offer a credible argument, nor is the personal necessarily a defense.

Baiting is a favorite tactic that the wise refuse to bite on. So what if he called you a loser - if that was an answer to an argument, it was a poor response. It was simply an ad hominum in place of a counter argument.

And why should that matter anyway - a man is generally what he feels himself to be. It was totally unnecessary to go into a biography - it looked like you were looking for credit or a pat on the head. Character is doing the right thing when no one's looking - or expecting credit for it.

I know this is contrary to our media driven day and age when it all seems to be about, 'look at me' - that's media liberalism in that we're all meant to be their disposable tools and gracious and gratified for its gaze. There's much to be said for anonimity.

Anyway, take it for what it's worth...and one last note in posting: brevity is the soul of wit.

okay...
colosteve-
natch.
dead on.
my bad.
Turelie-
If you are correct, then my bad.
But what appears to be satire to you appears to be sarcastic and mocking to me.
Plus, normally satirists don't respond with venom when people react to their satire.
Especially since I am pretty sure there was no satire intended.
Either way, I lost my cool. That doesn't happen often.

acetate....
You are correct.
I was baited and responded.
Absolutely my bad.
I mistook what you said as a criticism of my text, not my reaction.
The reaction was the flaw, the text was irrelevant.
I don't seek the pat on the back or the congratulations.
But when someone passes judgement based on limited exposure to someone, it is a particular sort of irritation.

Turelie
Someone who can read!

What??
What? Are you serious? You think women should go to college to learn how to be a mommy?

I think I just lost my desire to be a Republican.

karenkc
"Are you aware that the Army’s new counterinsurgency manual calls for as many troops to occupy Baghdad as are in the entire country?"

Citation please?
Because I couldn't read the entire 242 page document, but I didn't see any specific numbers. This appears to be a very solid tool for the military to use. I'm not sure what your criticism of it is.

"Are you aware that new recruits are not getting the desert training they need before they are shipped out?"

That happens sometimes in wars where the military is stretched thin.
It doesn't mean they aren't trained, it just means that they don't get the advantage of additional training.

"They do not even get to train on the equipment that they will rely on to save their own lives because it all is left behind in Iraq."

Not exactly.
They still train on weapons, humvees, armor, proper usage of gas masks, etc. The actual equipment does stay in Iraq. Should they bring that equipment back so soldiers can train while our soldiers over there can't use them?

"An article in my local paper concerning the Hometown Heroes Act says that firefighters and policemen are entitled to nearly $300,000 if they are killed in the line of duty or have a heart attack or stroke within 24 hours of leaving duty. This legislation was passed in 2003. It says nothing about the soldiers who are dying in a foreign land and I have never heard any more about the increase in their death benefit checks from $12,000 to even the $50,000 that they were talking about. How can this be considered fair?"

Well, the Hometown Heroes Act discusses local public safety officers and "expanded the circumstances under which public safety officer deaths resulting from heart attacks and strokes may be covered by the program. "
It was never intended to affect the soldiers in the field.
As for the death benefit for the military?
"The death gratuity payment is $12,420, and is non-taxable. For those whose death is as a result of hostile actions and occurred in a designated combat operation or combat zone or while training for combat or performing hazardous duty, the payment is $100,000."

So it appears to be much ado about nothing.
Does that seem more fair?
Or are you asking why the military death benefit isn't equal to the same benefit for public safety officers?
If that's the question, I would respond as such:
How would you like to settle that disparity? Certainly not by reducing the benefit for public safety officers, right?
It turns out that if the soldier signs up for the SGLI (Servicemans Group Life Insurance), they qualify for an additional $200,000.
Seems to me we're looking at about the same numbers.
Are you still outraged?
Do any of those answers do it for you?



Update
Just to reiterate, my apologies to Lynne for my part in letting things get out of hand - it actually doesn't happen that often to me, mostly because I usually hang out at one of those MSM boards where we all largely share the same opinion.

The unwritten rule of life seems to be that if you go into a community where your voice is the minority opinion, you'd best not speak out of frustration but be clear on what you think your opinion might add to the debate . . . otherwise it's sometimes better to just hush and not antagonize people. He he - guess I underestimated what a hot-button issue this would turn out to be and just sounded off . . . let that be a lesson to me!

That being said, other than feeling offended by the author's calling his friend's wife crazy (which is what caused me to get ticked off in the first place), I guess it probably would have been more constructive to just say that marital troubles are always heartbreaking to hear about, but the troubles between this friend and his wife sound solvable to me. Like the friend sounds like his heart is in the right place - like he doesn't sound like a cheater, and it sounds like he prides himself on feeling like he can make his wife happy.

What I would point out from the woman's perspective is that it's really easy for women to lose themselves in taking care of the people they love, and the desire for self-actualization is a natural result of prosperity (meaning that once our needs for food and shelter are met, people start to thirst for an outlet to express their talents and contribute to society, be acknowledged and respected, etc). Oftentimes people make an agreement that doesn't anticipate a future contingency, and I can understand how the friend might feel cheated given that his wife's desire for self-actualization likely wasn't part of the original bargain. And also that he wants to make her happy but he didn't feel like she communicated that desire to him until it came down to her leaving. BUT I think somebody in a marriage having dreams is somthing that needs to be respected and supported because the desire is fundamental to who we are, and is so strong that it will break up a family if that desire is thwarted. It's unfortunate when something like this does break up marriages though because I think support probably doesn't have to mean big sacrifices - like perhaps the friend would accept his wife buying more ready-made meals from Costco, and might be willing to pay a babysitter an extra day of the week so that they can go out on a date and discuss their interests. I think it's almost impossible for somebody who doesn't have a strong sense of themselves to convey this type of desire in a way that is going to be heard by the primary breadwinner and be accepted as okay - like might the balance of power have precluded this 'communication' from being heard?

Meh, jmo and it's not very well worded - my intent was to try and make up for calling the author some cheap names. Sorry :)

PS Good luck to the author's friend and his wife!

karenkc, PLEASE
put your tinfoil hat back on and head over to moveon.org or dailykos. Your ridiculous non-sensical tirades too often remind me of chronic "diarrhea of the mouth" disease. That coupled with your foul language, insults, and name calling make it all the worse. For heaven's sake would you just stop? Find a site where your type of writings are actually welcomed.

Mister Vince,
You said, " Jet Pilot made some intelligent points." An oxymoron for sure.


M.R.S.=Homeschooler
Nothing of what Mr. Addams writes about could really be taught in an institution, but that isn't the point. The point is that women are out of balance and need to return to some basics.

His article lists very important feminine skills, and there are few places where it is as critical to integrate them like the homeschool.

As a homeschooling mother using a classical model of education, and a happily married woman for 14 years, I really appreciated his article. It shows he values what many of us are all about.

People always ask homeschooling moms, "How DO you do it?"

We essentially work two full time jobs simultaneously. We teach in a one room school house while being at home mothers tending to the house and small children. (Some of us like to think of ourselves as professional jugglers.) While many professional teachers would be outraged at such "impossible" working conditions, there is plenty of objective data out there showing we're doing a pretty solid job of it. (Even those of us without college degrees.)

We have an investor mindset. We believe neglecting input shrinks outcome. We had time as children to have someone invest in us, and now, as adults, we invest in our husbands and our children.

The modern woman who needs to find herself and have regular "me time" and all that kind of stuff is really still the role of a child. She is more of a consumer, not much of an investor.


Interesting Post Homeschool Mom
"The modern woman who needs to find herself and have regular "me time" and all that kind of stuff is really still the role of a child. She is more of a consumer, not much of an investor."

Well I wouldn't have phrased it exactly like that, but in essence it sounds like you enjoy your role as teacher, set goals and take great pride in your accomplishments. And those are great ideas for how a wife and mom might find more fulfillment in her day to day tasks with just a simple shift in perspective. But what if the modern woman who wants to find herself instead has an aptitude and an interest in another domain and does not find teaching fulfilling? I would guess the hard-line philosophy would consider self-actualization self-indulgent and something which ought to be squelched for the sake of the kids? Just like marital unhappiness? Or don't you think there is room for compromise?

Thanks Lynne!
:)

Lynne
College campuses are another story all together, but your point is well taken. All the examples you sited are cases where I don’t approve of what was written. On the other hand, I can’t say that statistically the liberals are any worse or numerically superior to some of the more “outspoken” conservative regulars. I too have been lambasted simply for disagreeing. And while I do like to heckle the complete hypocrite and bait some of the more extremist comments, I don’t engage in petty bickering or insults. Here’s the funny thing. Conservatives are supposed to occupy the moral high ground; and according to many TH articles and posts, are superior to liberals in many ways. Therefore, when they behave exactly as the liberals do, their hypocrisy is enlarged. In a similar vein, liberals are supposed to stand for greater freedom of expression and lifestyle. So when they repress conservative expression as you mentioned, their hypocrisy is amplified.

karennkc
I'm sorry, but you sound like you are losing control of your mental state. If reading posts on this site are bothering you that much, then just stop it. Nobody is forcing you to stop by and post, especially those mindless rants of late. I'm not sure where you are getting your info, but I will fill you in on what I know. I am still active duty, for a few more months anyway, and I just returned from that part of the world a few months ago. From what I saw, our forces have very good training, and they use whenever the need arises. Now, I'm no military expert, but I have served long enough to know there is a lot more to this war that what you understand. You seem to be stuck on a rant that we are wasting our time fighting the terrorist enemy in that part of the world. If that is your belief, then please explain what would you do differently? I fully support destroying the enemy in his own backyard, rather than sitting back and waiting for his next move. That kind of thinking gets lots of civilians killed. This isn't a simple little war that shoulb be over and done with in a short time. The enemy is very elusive and is hoping to wait us out, while he plans his next attack. Haven't you noticed how they prefer to attack their own muslim neighbors and countrymen instead of face the U.S. forces up front? Because they are cowards and evil to the core. Have you not noticed who is killing the civilans populace over there? The death squads, beheadings, the murders of anyone who even appears to help us? If we pull out of Iraq, do you think terrorism will stop? Are you willing to bet you life, liberty and pursuit of happiness on it? I'm not. I can plainly see the face of the enemy and how much they hate America and what we stand for.

karenkc.... Liberal? YOU BET!
"I suppose it has never occurred to you that this is a country of 300 million people and that you who voted for Bush wanted this war and you who reelected Bush thought that he was doing a bang up job. "

And I suppose it is beyond your realm of comprehension to consider that some of us didn't vote for Bush (I voted Gore, then Kerry) and some of us don't think he is doing a "bang up job". But the alternative is likely much worse.
I didn't want "this war". It was inevitable. We spent too many years under Clinton ignoring the rest of the world, or trying to buy our way out of trouble.
I didn't vote for Bush. But I'm glad he won. Kerry has the fortitude of a gnat, eager to switch his opinion based on polls. That's why the Democrats have had so much trouble with Bush. The American people can see integrity and respect the office of President enough to know that:
- he has access to more information than you and I do. He should. He's the President.
- people who answer polls are generally uneducated, don't work, or don't know a thing about what they are being asked about. I've never participated in a poll. Have you? You know, besides a 'media matters' or MSM poll. A real one. I don't even know anyone who has. And I run with some pretty educated folks. The left in this country has chosen to take extreme left views in reaction to what they consider far right views. This alienates many americans (like me - a registered democrat recently converted). Polls don't mean a thing.
- The President has to look at the big picture and plan for the future. This war was always about that future. What the left hates so much, the world will always be thankful for, no matter what the 'polls' say. Moral leadership. We aren't a perfect nation, but there is no morality in taking out a fascist and leaving his people to clean up the mess. We have an obligation to stand up Iraq. If we don't do that, evil in the world will be more than happy to fill the power void.
- No President is perfect. Not Clinton, not Carter, not Reagan, and not Bush.

"The military is more than stretched thin as happens sometimes. This war was supposed to be a "cakewalk" and we were supposed to overpower with our shock and awe. Well, it didn't turn out that way and you people do not seem to bothered by any of this."

No war is ever a "cakewalk". To think that it would be is asinine and immature. No war is supposed to be easy. we *DID* overpower with shock and awe. The actual war to take Iraq went pretty smoothly. We didn't expect an insurgency to pop up the way it did. We underestimated the lengths that Iran and Al-Qaeda would go to in an effort to 'take on America'. The fact is that if we had managed to secure Iraq from outside forces, we would already have been home. But, as the saying goes, "War is hell." The thing I think you are missing is perspective. You assume that since many conservatives support the war, we aren't bothered by the loss of life, the extended tours, the long dangerous war. But you are wrong. We are bothered by it. It is sad and depressing and we lose good americans daily. We just aren't AGAINST the war. We support our troops by believing in them and showing support. We don't tell them that the war is lost. We don't call them murderers and rapists. We don't tell them, and the enemy, that they can't win and they will retreat on a given date. We tell them we are winning because that's what they tell us.

"You don't see a problem with the fact that before the war started a four-star general said that it would take SEVERAL THOUSAND TROOPS TO OCCUPY A COUNTRY THE SIZE OF IRAQ?"

How many did you think it would take? Several hundred? Maybe a few dozen? That's called 'reality'. How many troops do you think it would take to occupy and secure Texas? California? New York? The four star general was correct. It does take several thousand troops to occupy a country the size of Iraq. But when fighting an insurgency led by people who have no problem blowing up children, inciting violence amongst religious sects you need more. The biggest mistake we made in this war was not coming in with more troops. That might have made a difference. More troops seems to be working now.

"And now Gen. Petraeus who wrote the new CI manual is the commander in Iraq and he knows that there should be as many troops in Baghdad as are in the whole country."

Again - what are you talking about?
I asked for clarification before and I'm asking for some now. Do you mean we have the appropriate troop levels now? Do you mean that he said we need to double our troop levels? Where did you get this information?

"So, we can all expect the casualties to increase for the next 90 days because they're "taking the fight to the enemy.""

That's how that works. We tried the other way and liberals (and some conservatives) complained that we needed to change courses. Now we have and things appear to be improving and you are complaining about it!

"And the little numbskulls who were in such a fever to start this war - turns out they never had any intention of fighting it if they had to."

What? The only people that I see that aren't interested in fighting the war is most of the people on the left.

"And that works out fine because it's all about saving the president from admitting he was wrong all along. "

What makes you think he was wrong. And by he, do you mean the majority of Congress? The prevailing opinion was that action needed to be taken. Clinton said so (Shrillary). Kerry said so. Heck, nearly everyone agreed that Hussein needed to go.
Check the facts. Its not like Bush woke up one morning and went to war. The worlds intelligence community was united. Congress authorized the war. They AGREED with the President. "He" is "We" and we weren't wrong.

"That's why I hate you people."

Perhaps you shouldn't hate anyone. Just a thought. Hate is a strong word. You don't have to hate someone just because you disagree with them. That's what Islamo-Fascists do. They hate people who don't agree with them. What seperates you from them?

"I have a nephew who is a U.S. Marine. I will be married soon to a MO National Guardsman and I don't think a scratch on either one of them would be worth the whole lot of you."

I thank them for their service and respect them immensly.
I wonder if they know that their aunt and fiancee is a left wing, anti-war, anti-military, anti-bush hate monger, less interested in fact than bloviating her ill-developed opinion based entirely on mistruths and fantasy?
I doubt it.
People who join the military do so to serve their country. You know, militarily.
That means they know, well before they sign up, that they might have to fight a war.
That's their job.
They chose it.
They are part of an all voulunteer army.
I doubt they would quit.
I don't like to question people's patriotism. But I will say that the way you express it reeks of a distaste for our military and a distrust of our government.
That's not a terribly good case for patriotism.

Why Marry America?
"Latin American women seem to make decent wives. My friend married a hot girl from Venezuela. Sweet, beautiful, cooks, cleans, and is the perfect wife. Like how American women were in the 1950s America."

"Honestly I wish I could have found an American wife with all the qualities of my foreign wife. I could not, because they do not exist. Here is a partial list of her loveliness

1: Sensible and good with money.
2: Genuine commitment.
3: Very family oriented.
4: She enjoys housework.
5: Hard working.
6: She does not have to diet to look great

Foreign women are comfortable in their femininity. As a male I am attracted to this. And I love her with all my heart.

I believe that American women have priced themselves out of the marketplace. Too needy, too many headgames, too easy to divorce.

Not many foreign men want American wives either."

http://nomarriage.com/why_foreign_women_are_better.html

I have Peruvian girlfriend and she rocks. I consider myself the luckest man in America.

My Peruvian girlfriend gave me hope that all women do not dishonor men and family. I began to think outside the boarders.

She would not consider getting an abortion - she calls it murdering your family. She does not treat dogs or cats better than friends, family or the poor. She says that serving the family as a housewife is a honorable job. Most importantly is that she is not materialistic and she does not complain. She is traditional and conservative. She appreciates little things.

I expect that she will not bankrupt me during the dating and divorce process – the Double Ds of American woman (thanks Rudov).

http://mensnewsdaily.com/2006/04/13/her-double-ds-can-bankrupt-you

Love American Style
One small study concluded that divorce rate for Latina and American marriages was about 10%. Compare this to 50% for the general population in America and it's a no brainer if you do not desire divorce.

http://usaimmigrationattorney.com/MarriageLongevityRates.html

Of the 235 countries in the world, America has one of the higest divorce rates, while South American have the lowest (Chile 5%).

http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsWorld.shtml

karenkc....
I do have a personal stake in this war.
I am an American.
Your personal stake in the war seems to revolve around your inability to understand what your nephew and fiancee signed up for. It wasn't the pudding.
You call my attitide callous indifference and willful blindness.
My attitude is neither.
Quite the contrary.
I call your attitude reactionary, ill-informed, heavily influenced by the liberal MSM, and poorly formed.
What makes you think you have to duke it out with "the nasty little freaks on this site"?
Save yourself the stress and heartache and go spend more time with the huffandpuff post crowd. I'm sure you're a big hit at the dailykos and media matters as well.
Why punish yourself by coming to a conservative site like townhall.com, where you KNOW the majority of readers share far different views than yours? Do you really think you'll be able to persuade us to 'switch sides' by calling us callous and spouting off facts and figures reflective of 20/20 hindsight?
All Americans, at least those who care, have been living and breathing this war for a long time.
In my experience, you'll find a vast majority of supporters of the war here. So why turn them away? Conservatives support the war, support the troops, and want us to win.
Why try to convince us that we are all mistaken?
You think you are the only person connected to the war?
Egotistical.
I have friends, close ones, that are over there. Friends who I don't get to talk to, hang out with, etc.
Best friends.
I haven't seen them in far too long.
But when I do talk to them, they don't sound like you and the MSM.
They sound like most other soldiers. They want to finish the job. They see things turning around. They see improvement.
All you see is failure.
That's the difference and the reason many of us aren't receptive to most of your ideas. Your ideas seek to place blame and dwell in the differences between what we expected and what happened.
You can't live like that. You have to have learned that life throws you curves. If you spend all your time considering all the mistakes you've made you never change anything, you just think about it. You wanted a change of course and you got it. It wasn't what you wanted. You wanted us to come home. That's not a change of course, that is a total redirection. Surrendering is not a strategy, it is voluntarily losing.
Criticize all you want! We all know mistakes have been made. But you don't stop doing something because you made a mistake. If you did, you'd never accomplish anything. You push past the wall and forge ahead, as Americans have been doing since our country was founded.

meh
I wish Dr. Adams would get back to julio pino.

Karen
You said---

"I have not had a chance to read your posts to respond, I will get back to them."

Are you a blond?

karenkc...
"I still have not read all of the posts.Why don't you show me where you're getting your info from? Who is it telling you that everything is just so okey-dokey?"
No one is saying everything is perfect.
No one.
But things aren't quite as bleak as you wish to portray them.

"Trudy Rubin writes the "Worldview" column for The Philadelphis Inquirer. Over three years starting in 2003, she traveled to Iraq, Israel, the West Bank, Gaza, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, China and South Korea. She is the author of "Willful Blindness: The Bush Administration and Iraq," a book of her Iraq columns from 2002 to 2004. "

I hate to point this out, but that is plagarism.
That EXACT word for word quote is here:
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/trudy_rubin/
Trudy Rubin is a leftist, constantly criticizing the US, Bush, Israel, and our role in the world.
That's not enough to go on.
You might consider seeking out an alternative opinion from time to time. She's not always right, you know.

"She is the one who pointed out the ratios. I am not going to go dig up that column right now. It means that as many troops that are in the entire country right now should be in Baghdad ALONE. The so-called surge does not get it."

And I'm going to ask you again what this means...
Do you mean that we need 160,000 troops in Baghdad alone? Seriously? When you read her 'ratios' did you ask: "Wonder where she got that number from?" or did you just accept it, add it to your arsenal, and spout off about it as if it were fact.
You once posted that this was in the new Counterinsurgency manual - but it isn't. So.... Where is this information from?
Don't you care to know? It would seem that if I was going to build an argument around numerical data, I would want to verify that those numbers are real.
After all, this isn't "an inconvenient truth". And you aren't Al Gore. You need to be able to substantiate a wild claim like that.

"There has never been enough troops. I have the numbers somewhere for occupied Germany, too, and they are the same. This is why the military generals have been speaking out about playing WHACK-A-MOLE."

AHA!
And there we have it. There has never been enough troops. Yet we beat the Germans....
The difference? Congressmen weren't declaring WW2 lost. People weren't calling our President an evil terrorist. And American's supported out troops (even the democrats!).

"The "libs" wanted something done about the situation, yes, but it was not this surge. This surge cannot be sustained without increasing the time spent in Iraq and lessening the time at home for EVERYBODY. "

Exactly. The libs wanted us to retreat. This would look bad for Bush and help them pick up votes. It would not fight terror. It would not help Iraq stand up. It would not benefit America.
Instead, much against the will of the far left, Bush chose to actually change paths. He adapted his strategy and continues to fight to win. Too bad. If Bush was a democrat, he'd have all the troops home. And we'd have been attacked dozens of times already having shrunk away from the front line of terror, encouraging that terror to follow us home and go for the jugular.

"Somehow, you think it's okay for the war to be mishandled that's just the way things go."

That is the way things go. People make mistakes. Good people correct those mistakes and learn from them. Weak people run away and hide.

"Because you believe the army should be all volunteer they should carry the burden no matter how bad it gets. You don't have to sign up because you just don't want to."

Um, yeah. That's right. If you sign up for the military thinking that you shouldn't have to fight for democracy and follow the orders of the commander in chief, you are a disgraceful human being. That's why I respect the troops far more than those who want to surrender- at least our troops understand their role. They SHOULD have to carry that burden. It is part of their oath.
so you know, here is that oath:
""I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." "
Is it anywhere in there that they don't have to fight if they don't agree with or like the President?
Didn't think so.
Yes. The job of a soldier is to fight and follow orders. Discipline, professionalism, and a willingness to fight our enemies. That's what a soldier is.
It's too bad that your nephew and fiancee have been unable to explain that to you.

And you are right. I don't have to sign up if I don't want to. That doesn't make me less patriotic or less american. It doesn't mean I can't or don't support the troops.

"And your arguments about this is my country, too and what is at stake and what should be done about it is your PERSONAL OPINION. "

Just like you have been proud to state your personal opinion.
That's the beauty of America. That's what your fiancee and your nephew fight for. Our freedoms.

"And if you feel so strongly about that I don't know why you are not more concerned about the situation on the ground and why you don't join up. That's all. "

What business is it of yours why I don't join up?
Maybe I have webbed toes. Maybe I'm blind? Perhaps I have to care for my sick mother? Perhaps I'm too old? Maybe I have heart problems? Does that mean I can't feel strongly?
I don't join up because I don't.
But I admire and am proud of our soldiers. I show them respect. I care about hearing what they have to say.
They agree with me.
We must finish the job in Iraq.
And that's all.
I wish you luck. I pray your nephew and fiancee stay safe.


karennkc
If you keep letting them bait you into evading the word-filter you'll get deleted. We've dealt with puppets like you before too. You don't think you're the first, or last, of "your kind" to spew hate and ignorance do you?


karennkc
Well, let me say that you obviously didn't read what I posted. If you had, you would know I DO have an interest in the war. I stated I AM still active duty, have been for 20 yrs now and I just returned from the AOR. If that isn't good enough for you people on the left, oh well, I really don't care. I am tired of trying to explain it in simple terms to you folks why we are doing this. I'll let you in on a little secret, we don't like seeing any of our guys get killed either. In fact, I'll wager that 90% of Americans don't like the fact that our servicemen have died in this war. But, that is the reality of war, people die. In fact, people were dying at the hands of our enemy before we went to either Iraq or Afghanistan. If you liberals ever bothered to read a little history once in awhile, you would know that. You see, I've lived through the deployments to that part of the world for over a decade now, long before 9/11 happened. What people like you need to decide is whether you are going to stand up and fight back against this enemy or simply lay down and surrender. That is the choice. The enemy will not stop, so either we win or we lose. Personally, I prefer we win and keep our country w/ its liberty and freedom to losing it all. Have you been to that part of the world? I have. Both during the 1st Gulf War and recently, and I can tell you most definitely I prefer our country and way of life to anything over there. You as a woman should be especially grateful you live here and not there. If You want to respond that's fine, but if you have nothing more than insults and name-calling, then save it. I don't bother w/ trash like that. I am an adult and I don't play that game.

Selfishness
Seeing life through the prism of age is beneficial. The older I get, the less I know, but the little I do know I am more certain of than ever. For example.

1. Having to find one's self is selfish behavior. Selfish behavior is inconsistent with marriage.

2. Any form of promiscuity is selfish behavior. Sex without commitment is about as selfish as it comes, whether heterosexual or homosexual.

2. Having an abortion is selfish behavior. It places the individual's needs above those of the life the individual CHOSE to create. How utterly contemptible. It is not now, nor has it ever been a choice. It is a disgrace and an affront to human dignity. The myth that it is acceptable is advanced by selfish people.

I don't hate anyone who engages in selfish behavior. I do feel sorry for them though, especially when they don't realize what they're doing to their lives and the lives of those around them.

Uncle Al
"The older I get, the less I know, but the little I do know I am more certain of than ever."

That's called senility. :D


Selfishness...
It's one thing for someone to try and push their morals down other people's throats, calling things selfish, but *true* selfishness does exist. Retarded vegans...

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8P102RO0&show_article=1
"ATLANTA (AP) - A vegan couple were sentenced Wednesday to life in prison for the death of their malnourished 6-week-old baby boy, who was fed a diet largely consisting of soy milk and apple juice.

Superior Court Judge L.A. McConnell imposed the mandatory sentences on Jade Sanders, 27, and Lamont Thomas, 31. Their son, Crown Shakur, weighed just 3 1/2 pounds when he died of starvation on April 25, 2004.

The couple were found guilty May 2 of malice murder, felony murder, involuntary manslaughter and cruelty to children. A jury deliberated about seven hours before returning the guilty verdicts."


Now, *THAT'S* selfish, even the senile should see that. :D


karenkc...
"Jeffislouie, citation please. This Servicemans’s Group Life Insurance, why do soldiers have to sign up for it and how much are the premiums and why should soldiers have to pay it when these “heroes” don’t? "

I will provide a citation, even though you have refused in the past to provide your own (after repeated requests)...
http://www.insurance.va.gov/sgliSite/forms/8286(07-06).pdf

And I was wrong. By law, the entitlement is $400,000.
And the cost?
A paltry $29 a month.
And they don't have to apply for it, it is automatic. They only have to fill out a form designating a beneficiary.
Why do soldiers have to pay for it while the emergency responders don't have to? Well, I guess that would be because the states are paying for it as a benefit to responders. The federal government doesn't. Boo-hoo.
Tell you what - let's make them pay for it too! Let's take away the generosity of one party because another party isn't quite as generous ($29 a month is worth it and easily do-able, btw, even on a soldiers pay).
Thems the breaks. Life isn't fair. My dad taught me that when I was six.

"jeffisloony"

Unneccessary, don't you think?
Have I made fun of your name? Really.
I've found you have a better shot of getting respectful answers when you refrain from turning someones screenname into a joke.
Am I 'loony'?
Why exactly? Ah, right. Because we disagree on certain things.
That makes me a loony.
Sweet.
Well, consider me alienated.

Oh yeah, pony up for high speed internet. Dial up sucks almost as much as the liberal agenda of socialism and an open society free from rules, unless they apply to minorities or can result in votes.

required reading
For a MRS degree, Dr. Laura's book "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" is most definitely required reading. I've only been married a few months, but I've put into practice what Dr. Laura suggests, with amazing results. It might anger a lot of women who read it, but if they try it they will find that she's 100% correct.

As for leaving your husband to "find yourself" (on his dime, how's that for feminist independence?), I did that before I got married. And I did it in college, working crappy jobs for minumum wage and living in a crappy apartment, without help from an estranged husband (but a little help from Daddy, of course). Marriage is supposed to be a commitment until death, not until you get confused and decide to "find yourself".

BTW, usually when a woman "finds herself", she'll find herself without her man. I hope this poor guy cuts his losses and moves on, he deserves better than this twit.

The truth
What are you people talking about? Suddenly it's women who are breaking the traditional family mold? Men impregnate whoever they so choose and say they are "fathers" because they send a check to junior every month. Where's the accountability there?

After a divorce, it is the vast majority of mothers who keep the children (24/7 until 18). Shouldn't men help out with the children they spawn by at least sending a monthly check - this is not the least bit unfair. It is women who hold families together. Women put up with philandering husbands for the sake of their children and men leave the second anything gets tough. women are the civiling force in a household. Without them there would be NO ONE to raise the children when men need to go sow a few more of their wild oats and abandon their families. Thank God for mothers! Where do I find a guy who stands up for their family and won't leave them for the next hot piece of booty? Yes, children need men as positive role models, but I haven't been privy to many of those. Men need to step up!!!

It is MEN who need a MR degree that teaches them how to be FAITHFUL and provide for their family - it's until "death do you part", not until one of you gets fat. If you're not serious about the vows than don't take them. Tell me, which is the more egregious offense - infidelity or packing on a few pounds?

And, BTW, who ever said Mike's friend's wife was a feminist? Maybe she was just an idiot.

Better late than never
It seems to me that the intention behind Dr. Adams' column is getting by a few of you. All of you who cry out about the case of his friend and his marital problems, you should see that this was only a part of the column to give context to the main issue; women needing to learn how to become wives and mothers. Also, it seems that many of you are missing the point of his animosity toward "finding oneself." The main idea behind this is that when a person has entered into a marriage, especially one with children involved, there is an obligation to the family before the self. This is true for both men and women, and men are guilty of this as well, but they are not currently the subject of debate.

To illustrate this last point, I would pose a question. How many men do you know who hate their jobs but are willing to stick it out because they have families that need support? How many men would love to leave their current employment and try to "find themselves," or at least find something that might make them happier? How many of their wives would complain if they were to do so? How many women would call them immature for quitting their jobs, to become, say, a painter? If being a wife and mother is going to be compared to a paying job, should it not be seen with the same obligation to continue?
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