Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Monday, October 30, 2006
Mike Adams :: Townhall.com Columnist
Philippians 4:13
by Mike Adams
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
 
Poll
Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


Don’t let the biting sarcasm and all the talk about firearms fool you. There are times when I am wholly lacking in courage and simply afraid I have bitten off more than I can chew. In fact, I was feeling that way just last week when I arrived at the University of Minnesota- Morris to give a speech called “How to Win Friends and Irritate Feminists.”

When I walked into the room - which initially had only 100 seats – they were bringing in extra chairs for the overflow crowd. That helped eventually squeeze 168 people into the room. With the crowd running out the door and down the hall, well over 200 people were able to hear my speech. The vast majority were there to protest by walking out or by simply peppering me with hostile questions. Among those hostile individuals was Dr. P.Z. Myers, an associate professor of biology at UMM. Here’s how he described me on his website the day before my visit:

“Mike S. Adams, columnist for TownHall, Horowitzian shill, anti-feminist, creationist clown, homophobic bigot, warrior for free speech, professional racist, gun kook, academic-by-accident, beauty contest judge, and just generally contemptible far, far right-wing nutcase.”

Myer also took a few shots at UMM conservatives while he was insulting the school’s next guest speaker:

“I'm very disappointed in our students. We're far off the beaten track and we don't get that many speakers passing through our area, and they had to go exhibit the poor taste to invite this sorry sack of rethuglican excreta to our campus. Couldn't they have at least tried to find an intelligent conservative to bring out here? Why'd they have to scrape the bottom of the barrel for this guy? At least we're seeing our rather dismal right-wing campus rag's fading credibility implode with their sponsorship of such a low-wattage guest speaker.”

So, given the atmosphere, it might not surprise my readers that this was the one time I walked into a campus auditorium and drew a complete blank before I started to deliver an important speech. So, I did what I always do when I am lost. I said a prayer, recited a verse, and asked for guidance.

When the speech began, all the words came out to my satisfaction. In fact, the event went so well that students from both sides (politically) were peppering me with compliments afterwards. One said that he had never in his life seen a man turn such a hostile audience in his favor so quickly and so effortlessly.

But, of course, such compliments are misplaced. I didn’t do anything impressive or praiseworthy Thursday night in Minnesota. I simply took a situation I could not handle and turned it over to a Higher Power. If I were not such a faithless and flawed character the request for guidance would hardly have been necessary.

Contrast what happened to me that evening with what happened to Professor Myer. He had stated on his website that the university “paid good money to ferry this stiff here” saying “let's at least have him put on a show and argue with him.” And he speculated about what he might ask me if he could make my talk: “I'm tempted to ask him to simply expound on the distinction between micro- and macro-evolution, so that he can scuttle himself with his own words…”

Dr. P.Z. Myer did, in fact, make my talk Thursday night and something very strange happened: He, too, experienced a sudden and dramatic change in his level of courage during the course of the speech.

During the question and answer session, Professor Myer simply leaned against a door post with his arms crossed and said nothing. He just stared at me blankly and stood motionless in the same place where he was standing for the last twenty minutes of the speech. During the “Q & A”, I looked directly at him and asked “Are there any other questions?”

There was nothing but silence from Dr. Myer. But here’s how he described the scene on his website:

“…a fellow with a darker complexion and a long ponytail raised his hand to ask a good question, one that was actually very close to what I was going to ask as I was working my way up towards the room. He pointed out the fundamental inconsistency in Adams' conversion story—it didn't make sense that a good liberal would, in anger at feminism, abandon all liberal principles to so whole-heartedly embrace all of the completely contrary principles of conservative extremism (his answer: it was complicated, and there was more to the story than he'd been able to tell—I bet). The questions were just starting to warm up and drill down into Adams' hypocrisy, when one of our local ringleaders, who had jumped up out of his seat when Mr. Radical Ponytail had raised his hand, abruptly cut off the questions.”

The problem for Professor Myer is that – perhaps unbeknownst to him – the speech was videotaped. The videotape – taken by the school newspaper – will clearly show two things:

    1. The man who asked the question about my conversion was white.
    2. After I answered the white man’s question, the darker man in the ponytail asked a question about civil liberties, which I answered. He was not prevented from asking a question by a “local ringleader.”

More important than what the video will show is what it will not show. Specifically, there will be no image of Dr. Myer mustering the courage to ask a question of Dr. Adams. Instead, he simply cowered away, and then ran back to his home computer in order to blog a fictitious account of a wonderful event – probably while sitting in his pajamas.

But it is a shame that Dr. Myer lacked the courage to ask me a single question. I certainly had a couple to ask of him. And I’ll bet the audience would have liked to hear him explain how an evolutionist who deems the universe to be accidental can be so full of moral superiority. Or perhaps how the accidental moralist can be an atheist and yet so angry at God.

It takes courage for a man to admit that he is sometimes afraid. But that courage is not a gift of random mutation. It is a gift from a God who loves even the most hardened atheist.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Mike Adams is a criminology professor at the University of North Carolina Wilmington and author of Feminists Say the Darndest Things: A Politically Incorrect Professor Confronts "Womyn" On Campus.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to receive Mike Adams' column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
Cool
God silenced your enemy before you.

The Video
Where can we see the video? I'm not doubting your account; I just haven't seen you in action other than your NCSU speech.

An opportunity
What a wonderful opportunity for believers to be praying specifically about this Professor Myers and that he will hear...really hear in his heart.... what God wants him to hear. Isn't God grand? Congratulations on making a real difference in many people's lives this weekend and today with the column.

-Lucy Way to go, Mike!

Pajamas?
Please don't insult the true Pajamahadeen of Free Republic. We've brought down Dan Rather and the Dixie Chicks while blogging in our pajamas.

But I really don't want to picture what the learned professor might be wearing while he blogs.

Critical thinking
As a biologist, my thinking on evolution almost certainly runs closer to P.Z. Myers' than to yours. But that is unimportant. I have always been convinced that the major role of teachers is to teach HOW to think, rather than WHAT to think. Liberal academocracy has grown lazy, and now seems to think that its mission is to teach the latter. Thank-you for returning teaching to its roots.

Mysterious ways...
For some reason, the story of Balaam (Numbers 22-24) came to mind as I read your column. Of course, other biblical incidents could also be cited. Clearly, God gives courage to those who truly seek it and know in their hearts courage will be given.

But back to the Balaam account, one can presume that if God can cause a four-legged jackass to speak, He can also keep a two-legged one silent -- or at least not give one the courage to speak.

Oldtimer
Good reference to a talking jackass. There are no accidents, God is my Source and my Supply, and i am certain your reminder will come to my rescue today.

my 2 cents
Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom

Is Adams a Christian?
He sort of alluded to that fact by mentioning his conversion. But, that could be his conversion from liberalism. Why? Some of the things he said.

"I said a prayer" Rather strange termonology. Saying a prayer is sort of like reciting the pledge. It is like rote memorization. Christians pray, which is a verb. It is a two way street.

Another thing he said was "..turned it over to a Higher Power." Using the word "a" tends to imply that there is more than one Higher Power. I would think that a Christian would turn it over to Jesus or God, two words that he failed to mention.

I can't quite put my finger on it, but Adams seems to fail the test. Maybe I am way off.








BornToFarm
Adams terminolgy fits right in some places. Catholics "say" the rosary, i think. I'm not a Catholic, but they certainly must be classed as Christians. A Higher Power implies to me that Adams has his own personal vision of God that he keeps separate from dogma coming to him from outside his heart. I am sort of in that space myself. I pray for guidance. I'm with you there. I don't say a prayer for guidance.

Prof. Myers forgot times have changed
When Daddy started racing back in the 1950s he said that when a driver had an accident, he jumped out of the car and started shouting his version of what had happened right away. The first version of what they heard, he said, was what most people believed.

In 1998 Michael Schumacher hit another car and tore the wheel off his car, then drove back to the pitlane and jumped out and ran down the pitlane screaming at the other driver "You tried to f****ing kill me!" His version of what had happened was that the other drive had slowed down and moved across the track on him.

Unfortunately he forgot, as the Professor has forgotten, about telemetry. In Schumacher's case the telemetry showed that the other driver had been minding his own business and that Schumacher had simply misjudged his pass and run into him. Likewise, the Professor assumed that there was no telemetry to contradict him and got his POV out there right away, only to be hoist with his own petard.

Dan Rather, of course, ran into the same difficulty.

Being an occasional public speaker
I am with you Mike,
There is little in life, that I find more unsettling, than to stand up before a tough audience, especially when I would be introduced like you were. Man! But like you said, you were not alone up there. Like Moses going before Pharoah, you had Almighty God on your side helping you deliver a message of hope. The liberals often accuse us of spreading hate, when we only want to stick to the truth. They even claim that anyone claiming to know the truth is mislead and crazy. I think the liberals expected you to deliver a fire breathing hate-filled conservative message. What they got was the plain unvarnished, un-spun truth, spoken in love. Congratulations!
God Bless you sir!

BornToFarm
Did you notice the title of the piece?

See also Phillipians 4:6-7 as a segue to it.

A liberal lying?
Say it ain't so! They would never stoop so low as to such as saying they invented the internet, or had memos from 1968 written in Microsoft word that "proved" the President Bush was the devil, would they?

born to farm
have you ever read his testimony? His testimony is a testament to Grace and the transforming power of Christ alone.

The biblical story that came to mind for me is God shutting the lions mouth! Amen!

soli deo gloria

Uncle Max
I'll add another penny:

The fool has said in his heart -- "There is no God".

Borntofarm -- Perhaps after you read a few more of Dr. Adams' columns you may be able to pass judgment on whether or not he is a Christian (if you must). I understood his remarks about his "conversion" to refer to his conservative POV. After sifting through the 450+ posts yesterday to K. McCollough's gay marriage article (whew!!), I am worn out this morning. Sorry.


Born to farm
I think one can get too caught up in the "letter" of the wording instead of the spirit. IMO that is what has happened to our laws. The more our lawyers parse and pick at the wording instead of obeying the spirit of the law the more lawless society gets.

"Angry At God"

Mike wrote:

[re: Dr. Myer at UM-Morris]

"I'll bet the audience would have liked to hear him explain how
an evolutionist who deems the universe to be accidental can be
so full of moral superiority. Or perhaps how the accidental
moralist can be an atheist and yet so angry at God."


The idea that secularists are "angry at God" is the conservative
equivalent of the liberal insistence that anyone who disagrees
with them "feels threatened," and is equally silly.

Both are presumptuous and self-serving, and both are neither here
nor there as far as the matter at hand is concerned. Don't argue
like a liberal, Mike! Conservatives are better than that.


-CB-

Re: Cool

Mark Ruffolo writes:

> God silenced your enemy before you.


"Yeah, that's the ticket! God done it!"

Come on, now. Employing Occam's Razor, it's far more likely that
Dr. Myers's native cowardice was simply exposed by the situation
he found himself in.


-CB-


Professor Adams...

You know that Christ said we Christians would be persecuted for our beliefs. I thank God that He gave you the grace to deflect that persecution. Keep looking to he Light.

Re: Pajamas?

wolfpat wrote:

> Please don't insult the true Pajamahadeen of Free Republic.
> We've brought down Dan Rather and the Dixie Chicks while
> blogging in our pajamas.


Mike didn't insult them. He twisted the blade, so to speak, by
turning the liberal derision for the "Pajamahadeen" back on a
liberal.


-CB-


Mr. Adam's crusade
I only know Mr. Adams through this website. But from what I've read he seems to be filled with a crusade-like sense that he needs to save all of us unbelievers from our ignorance. I think he enjoys the rapturous feeling of being an academic martyr and the feeling that "God is with me".

What I wonder about is how someone can put so much faith in a book that was written so long ago by people they have never even met. Most people have the good sense not to put that much faith in even a story in a current newspaper. We do this because we understand how certain facts can be distorted, or exagerated, or left out of the story leaving one with a false view of what actually happened.

I wonder this especially in light of the fact that the story of Noah's Ark is quite clearly impossible.

Knowing this, how does one decide which parts of the Bible are supposed to be taken as myth, and which parts are supposed to be taken literally?

And can we ever be sure about any of these answers?

And if not, doesn't it seem arrogant and foolish to act as if we are sure, as Mr. Adams clearly does?

Phylo out.


Creighton Beryl
you wrote:

"The idea that secularists are "angry at God" is the conservative equivalent of the liberal insistence that anyone who disagrees with them "feels threatened," and is equally silly."

Here you are being unfair to Mike, I think. It is my experience that the world holds some of each, i.e. secularists for whom their secularism is an honest, non-malign expression of their worldview, and other secularists for whom their secularism is an expression of a tremendous anger and bitterness over how their childhood religiosity has failed them (in their perception).

Perhaps Mike is assuming the latter when he shouldn't, I don't know - but then, I don't know, and I expect you don't either. One thing is for certain: in the course of "opposition research," Mike has probably come up with more information, and thus better grounds to evaluate his opponent's motives, than either you or I.

I often agree with you, and I empathize with your point here, but I think you yourself are falling prey to your own set of preconceptions and expectations in this case.

Absolutely Beautiful
"If I were not such a faithless and flawed character the request for guidance would hardly have been necessary."

I love you, Dr. Adams. And I mean that as I would say it to my brother, Jeremiah, if only he were old enough to have made his confession and prove that he was truly my borther. Your humility - in spite of what you-know-who thinks, shows. Radiantly.

Also, nice show on P.Z. Meyers. Since you were gracious beyond normal measure - no doubt a lingering answer to your prayer - you did not mention where readers can peruse P.Z. Myers own bigotry, illogic, and hatred at the Panda's Thumb - http://www.pandasthumb.org/

However, I am one of your readers who, being very interested in the way ID is treated by the neanderthals and anti-galileans on the left, have become quite familiar with the troll that is P.Z. Meyers.

You have confirmed our suspicions about cybertrolls by revealing their cowardice.

Thank God you handled yourself well, so to speak.

Soli Deo Gloria, Dr. Adams.

Re: my 2 cents

Uncle Max writes:

> Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.


I was once a conservative Democrat, and realizing how counterituitve
that was, re-registered as a Republican. But though I'm politically
conxervative overall, I'm still an avowed secularist. And I've never
been able to wrap my brain around this Christian idea of "fearing"
God. On the one hand, the Christian God is supposedly loving,
forgiving, and compassionate; but on the other, His adherents profess
to fear Him. Is it just me, or does that strike anyone else as
contradictory?

I'm also a bit confuzzled as to why anyone would feel drawn to a
religion whose diety was to be feared.


-CB-

Fergus
"One thing is for certain: in the course of "opposition research," Mike has probably come up with more information, and thus better grounds to evaluate his opponent's motives, than either you or I."

And even CB and Dr. A have not done oppo - I have, and I have provided the link.

Peruse at your leisure; you will find hatred for God or His people, which is in fact the same thing, that is not frequently expressed by most.

Contentedness
This verse, Philipians 4:13, has kept coming up of late, so I thought I'd pass on a realization I had. It may be old news to many of you, but while lots of people use this verse to encourage accomplishments (successful careers, running marathons, etc.), the main point that Paul is making is that no matter the circumstances he knows how to find all that he needs in Christ. In Dr. Adams' case, it is perfectly exhibited by standing before a hostile crowd, not knowing what you are going to say, and trusting that Christ will strengthen you and meet you there. Which He will always do.

Re: Is Adams a Christian?

BornToFarm wrote:

> "I said a prayer" Rather strange termonology. Saying a prayer is
> sort of like reciting the pledge. It is like rote memorization.
> Christians pray, which is a verb. It is a two way street.

It's just a figure of speech. Such terminology no doubt varies
from place to place and among congregations and individuals.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.


> Another thing he said was "..turned it over to a Higher Power."
> Using the word "a" tends to imply that there is more than one
> Higher Power. I would think that a Christian would turn it
> over to Jesus or God, two words that he failed to mention.

"A Higher Power" is Alcoholics Anonymous/twelve-step terminology.
Perhaps Mike was expressing the concept of God in terms that a
liberal could relate to, as a way of mocking Dr. Myers?


-CB-

CB
"On the one hand, the Christian God is supposedly loving, forgiving, and compassionate; but on the other, His adherents profess
to fear Him. Is it just me, or does that strike anyone else as contradictory?"

I do see your point; now see mine, as I know you are well able.

We know that God is loving, forgiving and compassionate, and I would even add to your list: lowly and humble, and infinitely so. But these adjectives only modify the noun "God". It is the noun that should first move the mind to fear. A sovereign being in control of everything, including a universe of death for every empirically observable living thing. There is reason enough to fear there. If He controls everything, as we believe, then there is something terrible - indeed, Jonathan Edwards called it "awful" - about God's majesty.

Fear is appropriate. A cat that loves and trusts you will cower in your presence. How much more will perceiving man fear God?

In my note to Fergus, a correction
I meant "even IF CB and Dr. A", not "even CB..."

full of moral superiority
"...how an evolutionist who deems the universe to be accidental can be so full of moral superiority."

Such are troubled people. It all boils down to their childhood defiance to any authority. They never matured, and the academy suits them because they can do anything they want (except violate the liberal "Tolerance Uber Alles" Code) without punishment.

CB
"Come on, now. Employing Occam's Razor, it's far more likely that
Dr. Myers's native cowardice was simply exposed by the situation
he found himself in.
"

Orthodox Christianity believes that man has free will (i.e., he always does his own pleasure) and that God controls everything, down to the most minute detail of the universe.

Therefore the two possibilities you pointed out do not contradict each other in the orthodox framework; Meyers' cowardice, apparent and rightly noticed by you, would be, were you to believe in this sovereign God, also effectuated by His will. As the argument is often put, God could have stopped it, and knowing all things, His allowance (at a minimum) of the event was intentional.

I do not, however believe in allowances so much as active willing on the part of God.

ChasVS
It's okay man, it seems we're returning love to it's proper sphere by merely stating it here.

faith in books
Hi Phylo, (HKCindy here---I changed my sign-on)

Love your questions! "What I wonder about is how someone can put so much faith in a book that was written so long ago by people they have never even met"

It's a mystery isn't it? I'm pretty skeptical and don't put faith in much. Certainly not the newspaper, not the media, and NOT the Blogs! I find myself always questioning, always digging for motive and truth. And yet, I find rock-solid belief in a book written over a period of thousands of years.

How can I be sure? Well, faith of course. But it's not blind faith. There's a truth in Scripture that resonates in my very soul. I know it. The truth presented there, just makes everything else make sense. It's like trying to see the bottom of a pond and all of a sudden the waters stop rippling and moving and for a moment it all becomes crystal clear. Everything clicks into place.

I've never seen you or anyone else posting on these pages. Yet I know for a fact you all exist. I don't believe for a moment I'm talking to computers, but believe, I am talking to living, breathing, beings. I know you because you deomonstrate a signature of humanity. I know you because I recognize the words of humanity, not the mechanical response of a computer.

In the same way, God reveals himself to us. Through his words. Creation is God's word. Jesus is God's Word. Scripture is God's word.

Sola Gratia

Old Timer
"But back to the Balaam account, one can presume that if God can cause a four-legged jackass to speak, He can also keep a two-legged one silent -- or at least not give one the courage to speak."

I suspect, though, that if you were to raise this to Dr. Adams, he would think himself the a$$ made to speak on behalf of God.

Remember (I'm not speaking mainly to you Old Timer - I think you know this well) when Jesus was on the young donkey riding to His death upon Palm leaves, and the religious scholars told Him to tell the people to stop praising Him, and He said, "If they stopped, the rocks would cry out"?

What are rocks and people made of, anyway? The answer, of course, is dirt.

Remember, He also said, "God is able to raise up worshipers to Him from these very stones."

Christians are dirt He has raised up to reflect His glory. We are Balaam's A$$.

Soli Deo Gloria

I Say a Little Prayer for You
What a bunch of hair-splitting. When you pray out loud, you say words, which are in the form of a prayer. If you pray silently, then you don't say a prayer, you think one. The lawyers and publicans who are excoriating Dr. Adams for that statement are appear to be little more than whitewashed tombs, pure and clean on the outside and full of death and corruption on the inside.

Fearing God

jerubaal writes:

> Fear is appropriate. A cat that loves and trusts you will cower
> in your presence. How much more will perceiving man fear God?


I see your point. The thing is, though, a cat would only cower in
my presence if I yelled or hissed at it, or made a threatening move
-- not simply because I was there.

The idea that God is to be feared strikes me as a holdover from
primitive times when people ascribed frightening natural events
(thunder, volcanic eruptions, etc.) to the wrath of an angry God
or gods. Now we know better, and few people would attribute any
but the most subtle occurrences to godly influence (e.g., giving
one strength or perseverence, as in Mike's column)...and yet,
people still talk of "fearing" God.

Maybe "fear" is an anachronistic way of saying "respect."



-CB-


Speaking of cowardice...
Mike S. Adams seems to have found my site, at http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/, yet he hasn't bothered to comment to my criticisms either here or there. What's the matter? You stared at that blank comment box, and your courage fled you?

By the way, I have replied to Adams' silly accusations here:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/10/awww_mike_s_adams_noticed_me.php

Mike! You should have said something if you noticed me! Why should I have assumed you even knew who I was?

I've also posted a challenge at that link. You want to ask me questions? Go ahead.

CB,
or Reverance. It's not the cowering, "I don't know what you'll do to me," fear. It's a realization that God is Just. And we are rightly deserving of death--But he grants mercy to those who "fear" him. That is, those who show love through obedience. "How great the Fathers love for us."
Psalm 103:10-12 "He does not deal with us according to our sins,nor repay us according to our iniquities. For as high as the heavens are above the earth,so great is his steadfast love toward those who FEAR him; as far as the east is from the west,so far does he remove our transgressions from us."


PZ pretends to be
The time to step forward has passed. Grasp the day not the past.

Afraid of a God they don't know lives
If these people don't think there is a God, who do they think created whatever there was for whatever there is to evolve?
I well know (being a farmer) that animals can be bred to make other physical appearances, but they are still the original creature, not a new species. A horse may be a Tennessee Walker, a Percheon, or a Clysdale, but it is still a horse.
New species do not 'evolve' with random natural breeding, so evolution is still a theory with no believable basis in fact.
If God dosn't create things, rule the universe, or change (and judge) the hearts of men, what IS His job?
If there is not a God, what is there, and just why should we continue? Why should we try to become better people if there's not someone whatching us?
Now THERE'S a question for atheistic environmentalists!

PZ
Too much too little to late. I looked at your blog. Say what you want, but you remind me of the bully who after backing down from a fight continues to brag about what he was "gonna do."

It's just a lot of hot air.

And why are you so angry at Dr. Adams? Don't you have to go prove evolution or something?

arrogant biologists and angry nihilists
PZ, don't get your head too swelled over this. The fact Mike mentioned you in his national column probably gives you more attention that you are worth. I ascribe your little before and after 'rants' to the rest of the big talkers who hide behind the internet.

I am sure you have loads of theories(if you cannot prove them in a lab, thats all they are) on how species jumped from one to another but the larger question of WHY still hangs out there doesn't it?

If life is truly a random phenomenom, why only carbon based? Why not rock creatures on mars and gaseous beings on Jupiter?

Not to mention the problem of DNA mutations which would be NECESSARY for inter-species evolution but which unfortunately renders the being either dead or sterile. A Goldfish has 96 DNA pairs, and humans have 46. Did we come from Goldfish? If so how does the middle species with 80 DNA pairs survive and procreate?

Another problem with random creationists, the numbers are not in your favor:
http://www.direct.ca/trinity/crutches.html

As to the other comments reguarding God and whether he exists:
1. If He does exist, do you honestly believe he would be incapable of keeping his physical presence hidden from us?
2. How much faith would be required to believe in God if he appeared daily in a fiery pillar?
3. Why do humans make choices which separate themselves from God then blame God for it?

Verbivore
Loved your analogy so much, I passed it to all my friends and family... (along with the question from Phylo).

"Cause He's just plain SCAREY!
Creighton Beryll writes:
-+-
I'm also a bit confuzzled as to why anyone would feel drawn to a
religion whose diety was to be feared.
-+-
Even if we say that the older connotations/denotations of "fear" are closer to what we mean by respect, I don't think one can get away from the problem, if it is, which I odn't think, a problem. Respect at its root mean to "watch intently" or to" look again", and among those things which we watch intently and keep our eyes on are those which we think could blow us away in a heartbeat.

Adam and Eve, the story says, hid from the Lord because they were naked. They didn't fear becaause they thought they should. They just "naturally" feared.

I bet if you saw me, you'd laugh at the idea of being afraid of me, and yet you would be afraid of my seeing not only through your clothes but through all the little prevarications and temporizations we tell ourselves and others to make it through the day. You know that thing you did some years ago that you wish you had never done and would die if anyone found out? Or that habit you have that you are a little embarrassed to admit?

What if I saw you do it? What if I knew it, and you knew I knew it, and we met?

You know that dream or ideal you cherish, the one that's really precious to you, so precious that you are reluctant to share it because it would be painful if it weren't as preious to the person you shared it with?

What if I kew it, and you knew I knew it, but you didn't know what I thought of it, and we met?

The last time I went up into the Rockies, a few weeks after taking a stroll along the Blue Ridge, I was struck with something like fear, maybe awe, just at the scale of the place: boulders as big as my house -- bigger! Streams so far below that they looked like trickles, but I knew if I fell in them -- and survived the fall -- I would be swept away. Just size alone is sometimes kind of fearsome.

My experience is that even getting close to God sometimes invovles confronting the tenuousness of one's own being. And I mean not only one's existence, but one's worth, one's, how to say it, validity. It's not that God is hostile to us. On the contrary, we believe that He loves us so much that if you were the only person in all of histgory, He would still have sent His Son to save you -- from whatever you needed (not necessarily wanted) saving from. (I do not say this to persuade, just to articulate, to be clear.)

But in my day-to-day self, I forget that there was when I was not, and there will be, maybe, when I am no more. And that right now, a bunch of people never heard of me, and of those who know me, the vqast majority either don't care or know that I'm a fool and despise me -- and they are right tht I am a fool and may be right that I am despicable. And in any event, if there IS, as I believe there is, a God who is the source of all Being and the creator of everything that is, I am here, to the exent that I am, only on sufferance.

Not only could I throw a clot before I finish this sentence, but as we think of it, He who made nature act predictably so that we could make meaningful choices in nature, could decide tody that he wasno longer going to keep the roof from falling on me or the earth from dissolving under my feet. Or, maybe he'll just see to it that everyone learns what I dislike most about myself and what I am most terribly ashamed of.

I think anybody who takes the idea of God seriously, whether Christian or not, and who really means to "find" this God, will be afraid often.
But that someone will also be fascinated, drawn in, attracted. and the closer to the source of fear, the greater the attraction.

And people think the religious life is boring!

Fearing God
CB,

These are important questions you are asking. Your answer to your own question, that perhaps "fear" is an anachronistice term for what we now call "respect" is a little start in the right direction.

However--

Anyone whose life has been turned upside down by Christ will tell you that, looking back, they see that they were not in charge of this conversion. They will tell you, with wonder in their voice, how God orchestrated things and discrupted them until they could not say "no" to Him any longer.

The more they live as Christians, the more they realize how very evil even the best of their actions and thoughts always were. And, at the same time, they see more and more of the tiny tip of the huge iceberg of God's nature--His Beauty, His Delightfulness, His immeasurable Power, and His fathomless Mercy.

They realize with flashes of profound fear what they have been saved from, and how this God is too Good for anything but a response of abject and utter love, and He is too Great for anything but a response of utter awe.

"Fear" is the closest word we have.

On a human note: I love my husband deeply and my trust in his good will toward me is complete and based on our long relationship together. However, I fear few things on earth as much as I fear incurring his anger. Not because I fear he will hurt me or stop loving me (for he would do neither) but because I would not want to betray our love by causing him harm.

It is a real form of fear, but it does not contradict my husband's good nature, nor my relationship with him. It is a fear based on the great value of both his nature and our love.

God's value is infinitely greater, and His love for me is absolute, though my love for Him is weak and always liable to failure.

I hope this is helpful to your thinking about this difficult subject . . .









OK, Mad Dawg . . .
You described in a beautiful way what I was awkwardly attempting--thank you!

Creighton Beryl: Read Mad Dawg's superb explanation!

[and it's "anachronistic"--yikes! I repent of sniffing at bad spellers/typists!

RE: Phylo
First of all, before I begin yet another deconstruction of your dailly display of ignorance, I feel obligated to tell you I'm agnostic, and NOT some "religious nut".

You stated:

"What I wonder about is how someone can put so much faith in a book that was written so long ago by people they have never even met."

I know the most about the writing of the Gospels, and here is what I can tell you about them:

According pretty much the entire historical, archeological, and theological world -- whether they be Christian or not -- agrees that Matthew, also known as the tax collector Levi, one of Christs 12 disciples, did, in fact, author the first gospel, John Mark, companion of Peter (another Christ disciple) was, in fact, the author of the gospel of Mark, Luke, who was Paul's (another Christ disciple) physician, wrote both the gospel of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles. Also, most are uniform in thinking that John the apostle did, in fact, write the gospels of John, but the slight doubt in the authorship of that gospel remains the largest piece of contention.

So, at least for what are considered to be the most important books of the Bible to Christians, you are absolutely incorrect in claiming the authors wrote about someone they did know know.

"Most people have the good sense not to put that much faith in even a story in a current newspaper. We do this because we understand how certain facts can be distorted, or exagerated, or left out of the story leaving one with a false view of what actually happened."

Unlike what is in many of today's newspapers, though, in comparison to other, usually trusted historical documents (e.g. the biographies of Alexander The Great written by Arrian and Plutarch), the level of corroberating evidence backing up what is in the gospels is pretty significant. Hell, even writings by those HOSTILE to Jesus, like the Romans and unconverted Jews, corroberate what is in the gospels. Archeology, in fact, has done more to back up the accounts of the gospels than to disprove them. In a historical perspective, the gospels are probably the most accurate telling of that historical period available today.

"I wonder this especially in light of the fact that the story of Noah's Ark is quite clearly impossible."

How so? Pretty much every scientist in the field uniformly agrees that nearly the entire Earth, at one point or another, was, in fact, covered in water. What makes that story "impossible", outside of the fact that these days it seems pretty much to be a fantastic story? Twenty years ago, I'da thunk the Red Sox winning a World Series in my lifetime was impossible, too.

"And can we ever be sure about any of these answers?"

Can we ever be sure about anything? Most evolutionary biologists are ADAMENT that they are 100% correct, even though they have yet to actually prove anything. Absolute proof is a tough thing to come by. It seems to me that you are the arrogant one by simply dismissing the possibility only because of your prejudices, especially seeing as how your side has yet to present an alternativel that has even close to the amount of corroberating facts.

that 'Fearing God' thing
We 'fear' God in much the same way we 'fear' fire: lots of power there.

That power can be used for much good, when used right. But if not respected and recognized for what it is...well,. we really are no match for it.

So we don't fear because we are 'scardy cats' (couldn't help that, after the cat reference above), but because we recognize the power.

blessings...

CB - Reverent Respect:

I have (for numerous years) understood “Fear of the Lord” to mean, “Have a reverent respect for or to be utterly in awe of God.” However, for one to grasp the concept of Godly fear, one must first have a measure of understanding concerning the holiness of God. Mere man in the presence of the Holy God of the universe is made transparently aware of his (humankind’s) shortcomings, failures, departures from His (God’s) laws (sinfulness) and man's altogether unworthiness. One might reasonably surmise that the realization of one’s unworthiness would also cause a certain level of fearfulness. Secular man however, in varying degrees, has made himself the center of the universe; apart from a revelation from on high he will not take hold of or be able to embrace the concept of “Fear of the Lord.”

The foregoing notwithstanding, those who earnestly seek God will find Him – it is His promise to mankind. A heartfelt prayer – simply imploring, “God, if you truly do exist, make yourself real to me.” will lead down the path of understanding. Most skeptics however, will never dare to breathe those words. Ask yourself why?

Mike Adams IS Liberal!
Most of those who call themselves liberal are not. They are leftists and worse.

A liberal is one who believes in the values of the Western Christian Liberal Enlightenment. A liberal believes in natural law and that each person has inherent rights to life, liberty & property which come from God.

A liberal is thus inherently prolife. A liberal is thus inherently respective of individual property rights. A liberal is inherently directed towards the rights of the individual and thus opposed to affirmative action (as it currently exists) much of feminist thought, etc.

A liberal is pro-gun because it is an individual right defending the right of the individual.

QED Mike Adams is a liberal. His critics are not no matter how much they claim to be.

Fear and Reverence
Fear and reverence may be used interchangably.

What is most striking to me as I read these posts is how wonderful and merciful God is. There are the believers. There are the skeptics. There are the learned and the not so learned. Everyone has their level of expertise. Isn't it great the way that God will continually interject Himself into people's lives? Loving each and every one of us as if we were His only child! He will constantly place Himself in our way throughout our lives. Knocking on the door of our hearts, as it were. But never, never demanding entrance. The door MUST be opened from within. Hence free will. We choose to believe or not believe--but it IS, ultimately, our choice. It is up to us if we agree to give God a chance amidst the many choices we're faced with. But it should be an honest journey and not one that we've only allowed the devil full reign. It is very rewarding reading to learn about the Desert Fathers, St. John of the Cross (the dark night of the soul); St. Therese of Lisieux, The Confessions of St. Augustine, etc. The more we read of these people who were just like us but "chose" to live on a higher plain, in my opinion, the more we can aspire to greater heights also. Anyway. It beats the he11 out of reading grocery store rags....or anything the liberals spew (tee hee--thought I'd throw that in there)! Us Catholics just want to have fun!!!

DaveBe,
typos and all, eh? LOL.

Beowulfe, Why are you agnostic?

Fear: I like MadDawg's idea. Anyone who can bore right through me, and know me to the depths of my soul, from whom nothing I have ever done or thought is hidden...that's a bit scary!

Thank God for Grace and Mercy!

Pirate: Are you going to lead a drive to take back the definition of Liberal? Cool.

So, basically,
Myers pulled the ol' "He asked what I was going to ask" ploy. How elementary school of him.

Philippians 4:13
Not many people will give credit to the Lord when they've made a good speech, and I think you were very right to do so. For those without a Bible handy, the cited verse reads, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Keep on keepin' on, Dr. Adams. If more of us were like you, fewer liberals would feel they were morally superior to everyone else, or for that matter, to the average garden slug. If you don't mind, I might suggest that you consider adding James 1:17-18 to the verse from Philippians. And on days when you're absolutely certain that you've bitten off more than you can chew, try Psalm 46.

Well, I went to Dr. Myers
blog. Why do they hate us so much? I mean, these are supposedly intelligent people who believe in freedom of speech. The names they call Mike are nauseating. What are they afraid of?

Just like the bully...
...on the playground who blusters about what h'e going to do, then when confronted slinks away. That is the usual liberal tactic, isn't it? "Boy if those Republicans hadn't shown up, we woulda creamed those jihadists" or " Boy we woulda brought down the Soviets if Reagan hadn't come along"! Same thing with this so called professor who was so brave on his blog, but so cowardly when given a chance to prove it!

As for the whole fearing God issue, my dictionary defines fear this way: "profound reverence, esp. toward God." That is all; God does not want us to fear Him in the sense that we hide from him, He wants us to have reverence for His holiness, grace, and His very existence.

Answers before Questions
Dear Mike,
God bless you - and Praise the Lord.

Talking to God
Mike credits God for answering his prayer.

Do you believe him?

George Bush says he prayed and God instructed him to invade Iraq. Do you believe God told him that?

Does God only answer prayers on the individual basis? Or does God speak to George Bush about a decision that tipped the balance of whether thousands upon thousands of people died? Does the Devil respond in like manner? Can evil people claim the Devil made them do it?

If Mike were to do something bad could he claim the devil tempted him? If Mike is 100% accountable for all sins and the Devil for nothing, how come God's get all the credit after a prayer? At what point does one say, "I was responsible for this good outcome, and God was responsible for that good outcome?" How does that foster the notion of accountability when one only gets credit for the bad stuff and God get's credit for some of the good stuff?

The Puritans are an interesting case study in the Christian dilemma of when to credit God, the Devil and oneslef. On one hand they felt that the Native Americans w needed to be brought the word of God as every other heathen. On the other hand, the Native Americans looked and acted like they were possessed by the Devil himself. Especially when they got drunk. They were savages.

The Puritans believed not only could one know when the hand of God was directly involved on a personal level, but also the Devil's work in other people. The believed the Native Americans were agents of the Devil and slaughtered them. This same notion of knowing when God or the Devil speaks in us is what ultimately lead to the witch burnings at the Salem witch trials.

The Puritans are well documented for having slaughtered Native Americans. They would go out at night, encircle a camp with fire, and burn them all alive: women, children, the entire camp. We know because Puritans kept meticullous diaries.

Does anyone in this day and age believe that the Native Americans were indeed devils and demons, possessed by the devil?

Claiming God answered a prayer for courage in public speaking seems innocent enough. But that innocence can translate into something far more deadly, like declaring war on Iraq.

Probably one of the most deadly religious notion is when someone, somewhere claims God spoke to them or attributes something to God in a public forum.


Liberal_dialogue
You say:
-+-
George Bush says he prayed and God instructed him to invade Iraq.
-+-

May we please have the exact quote and the citation or source? Frankly, I do not belive Dubya said that.

Phylo out
Well, Phylo, your question appears to be -- what to put your faith in? Let's compare your Bible doubts to global warming. You probably believe in that. Yet, have you personally met the scientists and (lots of) non-scientists touting that? What about Algore? Ever met him? For that matter, how many of the science community has Algore personally met? What substantive proof is he putting his faith in? Or you?

Do you always have to know the author or a book, even meet him, before you'll believe any of it? I'm betting not.

Tha fact is, today there are lots of liberal folks who will gladly put their faith in all sorts of mystical stuff -- crystals, pyramids, psychics, etc., without even a second thought. The more mystical the better. And just think if they could come across some "ancient manuscripts." Ooohh, all the better. And what's more -- other libs give these folks a free pass -- never questioning the source.

BUT -- when Christians want to put their faith in these particular "ancient manuscripts," wow -- the criticism that ensues!! "How can you believe that stuff? Written by too many guys! Could never happen!! Etcetera. In spite of the fact that the Bible has been in its present form (books, chapters, verses) for centuries. In spite of the fact that it has survived through the millenia. In spite of the fact that the Old Testament has well over 300 prophesies regarding Jesus' birth, life, and death -- all of which were fulfilled. No matter, huh?

Just a point of view for you.

Philippians 4:13
It never ceases to amaze me that these Demon-crat-leaning atheists seem never to have intelligent responses - instead they somehow think it makes them sound intelligent to make up their own "facts" and even words in order to attack the message of a Christian - and a Conservative!
Dr.(?) Myer's attack on you, Mike, is full of senseless invectives, but makes no sense. Does he reply at all to anything you said? Doesn't appear so.
And, as you stated, he did not even have the courage to ask you a question. hmmm! perhaps he feared that you would make more sense than he in front of his "home" audience. And rather than feeling inferior, he chose to slink out and go the usual (liberal!) route and attack, with absolutely no intelligent debate!

Bless you! Seems a fervent prayer is always answered - too bad the atheists have nothing to fall back on!

Mad Dawg
"May we please have the exact quote and the citation or source? Frankly, I do not belive Dubya said that."

He didn't. It's never been verified. He's reported to have stated to Abu Mazen, "God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [ Hussein], which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them." From what I understand of how this quote got reported, this is a translation of a translation of what President Bush said.

The reason
Hey, Beowulf and Phylo...

That is the reason that the belief is called FAITH! We, as humans, are not capable of understanding a God concept of, always was, and knows the past and future. We are limited in gray matter as humans to logic which does not apply to God. We are arrogant to think God has to make sense to us, otherwise God does not exist. We try to humanize Him, giving Him human logic and human traits to explain what we can not grasp. Those of us who have had the experience have "Come to believe in our own personal understanding of OUR Higher Power. GOD!" We know He has spoken to us, touched us, and walks with us, because we have Faith.

truthspotlight
Dang, you said what I was gonna say.

I would add this though: I never met the writers of the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. It was a "long time ago". However, I find myself still tending to believe both.

In fact, I have never read a book written by someone I know personally. Does that mean all books I have read are false? (Well, the fiction ones, sure.)

Truth exists, and some truths are absolute.




Jason, thanks.
I figured it was bogus. What intrigues and amuses me is that the same Dims who ride all over us for being credulously religious will believe ANYTHING wicked or wacky about Dubya on the flimsiest of evidence or on no evidence at all.

Jesus may not have been God, or even good, that's a matter of debate for them, but there's no question in their minds that Dubya is the tool of that same devil in whom they don't believe.

fear and fear
This verse could be helpful to people discussing the meaning of "fearing God."

". . . But let God not speak with us, lest we die. And Moses said unto the people, _Fear_ not: for God is come to prove you, and that his _fear_ may be before your faces, that ye sin not." --Exodus 20:19b-20 (KJV)

In one verse we see fear used two ways. There is a fear of God we should always keep before us. And there is a fear of God which we should put away by the love of God. (1 John 4:18)





Mad Dawg
Correct, and good observation.

Hypocrisy -- thy name is democrat.

Cool
Sounded like a pretty good event. I'd love to hear one of Dr. Adams' speeches in person (and I wouldn't hold back on the questions, either). Unfortunately, I'm actually at UNCW. Does anyone know if he gives speeches here, or is there some kind of rule that would prevent him from doing it? I've never heard of him giving one here, so that's the basis for my question.

VILIFICATION AS POLITICAL STATEMENT
Dr. P.Z. Myers, an associate professor of biology at UMM states in an Email concerning Dr. Mike Adams' speech at UMM:
“Mike S. Adams, columnist for TownHall, Horowitzian shill, anti-feminist, creationist clown, homophobic bigot, warrior for free speech, professional racist, gun kook, academic-by-accident, beauty contest judge, and just generally contemptible far, far right-wing nut
***************

I have long noted Liberal Posters use of pejoratives as political argumentation.

It's a free country of course, so I generally ignore such muck as the output of hate filled naifs who lack the skill to mount a reasoned political argument.

So, what to think of Dr. Myers' boorish little gem? Is the man so contemptuous of his students that he thinks they would buy into such childish ranting, or is he simply exposing his own shortcomings?


Last resort
Re Dr. Myers enlightened comments, somewhere I read the adage "Obscenities are the last resort of the incompetent". While Myers comments are not obscene per se, I think in this case they fall under the same general classification of usage, and so this saying is applicable.

To: liberal_dialog -- recheck your facts
You said:
> This same notion of knowing when God or the Devil
> speaks in us is what ultimately lead to the witch
> burnings at the Salem witch trials.

Really? Check your "facts". No one was burned as a witch at the Salem witch trials. Look it up.

As for your statement that:
> The Puritans are well documented for having
> slaughtered Native Americans. They would go out at
> night, encircle a camp with fire, and burn them
> all alive: women, children, the entire camp. We
> know because Puritans kept meticullous diaries.

You have expanded a single incident into a general practice. See here: http://hnn.us/articles/7302.html
for details. The bottom line was it was aa single incident taking place in the middle of an open war with the Narragansett Indians and the Puritans on one side, and the Pequots on the other.

Jon and JDComments --
Wow, no kidding! Can you imagine the outburst if a conservative professor were to introduce a lib speaker with equal (but reverse) furor?!?!

MORE hypocrisy.

PZ....

My goodness, check a dictionary under "liberal" and there HAS to be a picture of the good Dr. PZ!

Another wasted mind living in an alternative universe and proving Winston Churchill's axiom: (paraphrasing) "... and a man over 30 who is not a conservative has no brain."

The Jellyfish Manifesto
I live in an environment where a devout Christian is the minority, and you're swamped in a culture where people are different behind the eyes. The rough conclusion that I've come to is that people are (or may as well be) what they believe they are. True Christian men really are the sons of Adam, in the image of God. Buddhists (devout, not Holly-Buddh) truly exist on a rung on the ladder of their Ten Realms of Being. And, of course, Atheists truly are just animals, descendents of microscopic jellyfish; their lives truly are insignificant and accidental.

To the point of the article: I used to worry about living among these people, but I learned that (like other pack animals) if they don't sense weakness, they sense dominance; they'll bow to the strongest dog, even a Christian dog.

They can be quite sure in their science and their religion of doubt, but they still lack true confidence (Latin root: "with faith") and the authority over lower animals that comes with it. I watched a CSpan lecture from "End of Faith" author Sam Harris...whatever his words said, the nervous eyes, trembling voice, and weak, joyless delivery influenced no one.

Back to my Atheist lab experiment: for most, particularly women, it's just as easy to turn them one way or another. If a woman hadn't been influenced by other men, it would be just as easy for a confident man to make her a harlot or a housewife (no offense, girls). In groups, "peer pressure" could just as easily be used to influence Jellies NOT to use drugs, NOT to curse, NOT to break the law. For more stubborn cases, with other conditioning, all you'd need to do is shock them, they'd be yours. Violation is conversion.

For example, to convert America to embracing homosexuality, Marshall Kirk, a neuro-psychiatrist, and partner Hunter Madsen, a political scientist, developed a scheme with three prongs: to "desensitize", "jam", and "convert". "Jamming" is described as "psychological terrorism meant to silence expression of or even support for dissenting opinion."

And "Conversion": "We mean conversion of the average American’s emotions, mind, and will, through a planned psychological attack, in the form of propaganda fed to the nation via the media. We mean 'subverting' the mechanism of prejudice to our own ends – using the very processes that made America hate us to turn their hatred into warm regard – whether they like it or not."

It's very possible, with violation, to put a thought or impulse inside a person and let the drone defend it as if it was their own. A raped young woman or molested child will usually will develop some version of a warped sexuality (like their attacker) which they then defend as if it were their own, which their "Science-priest" Jelly Psychologists then tell them is normal and natural. So the violation spreads, so the country is converted: the Curse of the Jellyfish in the Modern Age.

On topic, that's why the professor didn't raise his hand. Had the speaker been weaker than himself, he would have kicked down with glee. (Hard to imagine anybody being weaker than a liberal college professor, though.)

Off topic, that's why Jellies will always be ruled. That's why Socialism has always needed and intended to destroy Christianity. That's why the violation (thus, conversion) of young, morally immature Americans is political. That's why Jellyanity is on the march and the West is on the decline.







Mike Adams
I, too, love you Mike--- this grandma from Missouri is thrilled when I see someone in the public's eye, unashamedly and unabashedly, give God the credit for your successes!! It is too easy to just demur and wish later one would have spoken up for our Loving Heavenly Father!!
Well not me, cause the older I get, the more and more I do not hesitate, politely, to be sure, to let my heart be seen in my testimony for my Lord.

As I read through all these blogs, I began to note the ones with whom I agreed and wanted to say 'good on ya'--but found there were way too many to name them--- very heartening to see there are so many who seem to really know the author of 'that book'--when you know the author of a book, it gives you a distinct feeling of closeness to that person.

So I pray for you Mike to continue in your quest to learn to know Him more-- I feel you will. And I pray for the ones who so obviously do not know Him--- they have to be told continuously that HE really does love them too-- when they finally seek Him, they will find Him-- what a day of joy for them that will be. !!!

Meanwhile, please 'keep on keeping on'--- you are more than a conqueror, through Christ Jesus.
As I read the account of your speech, I was reminded that this is truly a picture of how sweetly and lovingly God turns evil for our good.
He does not knock down and drag out the opponents-- oh He would if need be--but in that gentleness, the real picture of God who wrote the Bible shines through. And I am certain that in the privacy of his own room, the good doctor
Myers will hear the Voice-- if he will only respond, then his life can change too!!!

Jay in NC
I'm at UNCW as well. I think it would be interesting to invite Myers here for a debate with Adams.
If you haven't had him for a class yet, I strongly encourage you to sign up for his Intro to Criminal Justice.

One More Thing On "Jamming":
To quote the good doctor, P.Z. Miles, in the article:.

"Mike Adams,...Horowitzian shill, anti-feminist, creationist clown, homophobic bigot, warrior for free speech, professional racist, gun kook, academic-by-accident, beauty contest judge, and just generally contemptible far, far right-wing nutcase.”

“I'm very disappointed in our students. We're far off the beaten track and we don't get that many speakers passing through our area, and they had to go exhibit the poor taste to invite this sorry sack of rethuglican excreta to our campus. Couldn't they have at least tried to find an intelligent conservative to bring out here? Why'd they have to scrape the bottom of the barrel for this guy? At least we're seeing our rather dismal right-wing campus rag's fading credibility implode with their sponsorship of such a low-wattage guest speaker.”
________________________________

To paraphrase Bob Marley: "Ooh yah! he jammin'"
________________________________

That's how the more adventurous Jellies test strength. Show no fear or weakness at the insults, and you're dominant.




Poppin Fresh
Mike seems disappointed that the guy didn't come at him with a pie. Seriously, this guy Myers isn't worth the ink Adams gave him.

Phylo Se Fizer here's a link for you
http://www.perishednations.com/nuhsflood3.html

There are lots of excellent books about archiological findings that prove the "stories" of the Bible. You said it yourself, Faith. Faith is what you need to believe. I agree that the Bible has been tampered with, but not to the point of changing the words or incidents. There is a whole world of things I have not seen, but believe exist.
As far as Mike seeming to be "filled with a crusade-like sense that he needs to save all of us unbelievers from our ignorance"..it's the same excitement & wonder that fills anyone when they have made a monumnetal discovery. And what could possibly top eternal life full of love, joy, peace and being in God's presence?

Response to Phylo Se Fizer:
I found your comment:

"I wonder this especially in light of the fact that the story of Noah's Ark is quite clearly impossible. "

interesting. I too used to think that, until I had a conversation at Passover with a couple of my conservative Jewish friends. They reminded me that back then, the size of the world was limited to the author. Therefore, if you look at the flood as a local event, it becomes very possible. You may comment that 40 days and 40 nights of rain would not produce such a flood, and I would agree. However, melting glaciers from the ice age, certainly would. In fact it appears that many catastrophic floods occurred all over the world at that time.

I have finally come to conclude (with the help of CS Lewis) is that if you take the Bible and drop out the science (an understanding of which, is a product of its time), you have the TRUTH.

PZ was in the house...
I've read most of Adams' articles and I try to read some of the comments, but I don't remember ever seeing the subject of one of his articles post here before. Maybe I didn't read his post carefully enough, but did he even bother trying to answer any of Adams' points? Seemed to me like all he tried to do was plug his blogsite.

Creighton Beryl
The Biblical phrase, "to fear God", is an old English phrase -- fear in the old English doesn't mean "be afraid", it means to "respect".

I hope that helps answer your question about Christians "fearing" God. We know that God is love, but we RESPECT Him above all others -- ie: fear.

What a bunch of sad, angry folks
are over on ol' PZ's blog site. Man, I've never seen the like. I genuinely feel sorry for these people. Not just lost, but HUGE CHIP ON THEIR SHOULDER, CRUIZIN FOR A FIGHT, ANGRY lost.

It's sad. Here it is, but it's not pretty -
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/10/awww_mike_s_adams_noticed_me.php

CB good job with the "fear" ?
jerubaal writes: Monday, October, 30, 2006 8:38 AM
CB
"On the one hand, the Christian God is supposedly loving, forgiving, and compassionate; but on the other, His adherents profess
to fear Him. Is it just me, or does that strike anyone else as contradictory?"

It is my understanding that in the referenced theme, Biblical "fear" = respect. I believe that the Bible is in fact the Word of God; God said, I believe it and for me that settles it.

John 3:16 For God so love the world that he gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. {operative words being world and whosoever)

As for the ? about Noah's Ark; with God all things are possible.

Also, I have been taught that a person's relationship with God is absolutely between that person and God and that anyone who questions another person's faith is most probably stepping over the line; you know like casting the 1st stone etc. so I really try not to go there (sometimes it's really hard to "Be Still...") :o)







Phillipians 4:13
Phillipians 4:13 (NKJV) says: "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."

Amen, brother Adams.

Diefenbaker
I think you will find, if you look, that what these gentlemen were referring to was such doctrines as the Resurrection, the Trinity, the various doctrines of the Atonement, the hypostatic union of two natures in one Christ, and so forth. I don't think they made any serious complaint about Christian moral teaching. As I said earlier, If you look at Jeffersons Code for Virginia you will find harsh penalties for witchcraft, adultery, and "sodomy". I don't recall but he may also have writte in penalties for "Fornication", that is, sexual intercourse outside (including before) marriage.

My guess is that you are trying by your elliptical post and carefully selected quotes to suggest that strictures, laws, and penalties against some kind of sexual behavior are intrinsically related to Christianity, that the Signers (one of whom was a clergyman and one a Catholic) and the Founders would therefore be against them if only they had your advantages.

It may be so, but it's not the slam dunk you make it out to be. Have you read Lincoln's Second Inaugural lately? The man may not have believed all that he read, but he read his Bible.

"Spinning in Graves"
...implies belief in the afterlife. Tisk.

Lincoln, not that he was founding father, but just to humor you:

"That I am not a member of any Christian church is true; but I have never denied the truth of the Scriptures; and I have never spoken with intentional disrespect of religion in general, or of any denomination of Christians in particular....I do not think I could myself be brought to support a man for office whom I knew to be an open enemy of, or scoffer at, religion."

"It is the duty of nations as well as of men to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God, and to confess their sins and transgressions in humble sorrow, yet with assured hope that genuine repentance will lead to mercy and pardon, and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in Holy Scripture, and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord. And, insomuch (sic) as we know that by His divine law nations, like individuals, are subjected to punishments and chastisement in this world, may we not justly fear that the awful calamity of civil war which now desolates the land may be but a punishment inflicted upon us for our presumptuous sins, to the needful end of our national reformation as a whole people? We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven; we have been preserved these many years in peace and prosperity; we have grown in numbers, wealth and power as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which has preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us. It behooves us, then, to humble ourselves before the offended power, to confess our national sins and to pray for clemency and forgiveness."

(on receiving a Bible) "In regard to this great book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to men. All the good Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man's welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it."
__________________________

George Washington:

"Mankind, when left to themselves, are unfit for their own government."

"And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure – reason and experience both forbid us to expect that National morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle"

“It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”

“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ."
____________________________

To be continued...







Washington's Prayer Journal...
Yes, I said "Prayer Journal"

Sunday Morning
Almighty God, and most merciful father, who didst command the children of Israel to offer a daily sacrifice to thee, that thereby they might glorify and praise thee for thy protection both night and day, receive, O Lord, my morning sacrifice which I now offer up to thee; I yield thee humble and hearty thanks that thou has preserved me from the danger of the night past, and brought me to the light of the day, and the comforts thereof, a day which is consecrated to thine own service and for thine own honor. Let my heart, therefore, Gracious God, be so affected with the glory and majesty of it, that I may not do mine own works, but wait on thee, and discharge those weighty duties thou requirest of me, and since thou art a God of pure eyes, and wilt be sanctified in all who draw near unto thee, who doest not regard the sacrifice of fools, nor hear sinners who tread in thy courts, pardon, I beseech thee, my sins, remove them from thy presence, as far as the east is from the west, and accept of me for the merits of thy son Jesus Christ, that when I come into thy temple, and compass thine altar, my prayers may come before thee as incense; and as thou wouldst hear me calling upon thee in my prayers, so give me grace to hear thee calling on me in thy word, that it may be wisdom, righteousness, reconciliation and peace to the saving of the soul in the day of the Lord Jesus. Grant that I may hear it with reverence, receive it with meekness, mingle it with faith, and that it may accomplish in me, Gracious God, the good work for which thou has sent it. Bless my family, kindred, friends and country, be our God & guide this day and for ever for his sake, who lay down in the Grave and arose again for us, Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.

Sunday Evening
O most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ my merciful and loving father, I acknowledge and confess my guilt, in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on thee for pardon and forgiveness of sins, but so coldly and carelessly, that my prayers are become my sin and stand in need of pardon. I have heard thy holy word, but with such deadness of spirit that I have been an unprofitable and forgetful hearer, so that, O Lord, tho' I have done thy work, yet it hath been so negligently that I may rather expect a curse than a blessing from thee. But, O God, who art rich in mercy and plenteous in redemption, mark not, I beseech thee, what I have done amiss; remember that i am but dust, and remit my transgressions, negligences & ignorances, and cover them all with the absolute obedience of thy dear Son, that those sacrifices which I have offered may be accepted by thee, in and for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ offered upon the cross for me; for his sake, ease me of the burden of my sins, and give me grace that by the call of the Gospel I may rise from the slumber of sin into the newness of life. Let me live according to those holy rules which thou hast this day prescribed in thy holy word; make me to know what is acceptable in thy holy word; make me to know what is acceptable in thy sight, and therein to delight, open the eyes of my understanding, and help me thoroughly to examine myself concerning my knowledge, faith and repentance, increase my faith, and direct me to the true object Jesus Christ the way, the truth and the life, bless O Lord, all the people of this land, from the highest to the lowest, particularly those whom thou has appointed to rule over us in church & state. continue thy goodness to me this night. These weak petitions I humbly implore thee to hear accept and answer for the sake of thy Dear Son Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.

Monday Morning
O eternal and everlasting God, I presume to present myself this morning before thy Divine majesty, beseeching thee to accept of my humble and hearty thanks, that it hath pleased thy great goodness to keep and preserve me the night past from all the dangers poor mortals are subject to, and has given me sweet and pleasant sleep, whereby I find my body refreshed and comforted for performing the duties of this day, in which I beseech thee to defend me from all perils of body and soul. Direct my thoughts, words and work, wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the lamb, and purge my heart by thy holy spirit, from the dross of my natural corruption, that I may with more freedom of mind and liberty of will serve thee, the ever lasting God, in righteousness and holiness this day, and all the days of my life. Increase my faith in the sweet promises of the gospel; give me repentance from dead works; pardon my wanderings, & direct my thoughts unto thyself, the God of my salvation; teach me how to live in thy fear, labor in thy service, and ever to run in the ways of thy commandments; make me always watchful over my heart, that neither the terrors of conscience, the loathing of holy duties, the love of sin, nor an unwillingness to depart this life, may cast me into a spiritual slumber, but daily frame me more 7 more into the likeness of thy son Jesus Christ, that living in thy fear, and dying in thy favor, I may in thy appointed time attain the resurrection of the just unto eternal life bless my family, friends & kindred unite us all in praising & glorifying thee in all our works begun, continued, and ended, when we shall come to make our last account before thee blessed saviour, who hath taught us thus to pray, our Father....

Monday Evening
Most Gracious Lord God, from whom proceedeth every good and perfect gift, I offer to thy divine majesty my unfeigned praise & thanksgiving for all thy mercies towards me. Thou mad'st me at first and hast ever since sustained the work of thy own hand; thou gav'st thy Son to die for me; and hast given me assurance of salvation, upon my repentance and sincerely endeavoring to conform my life to his holy precepts and example. Thou art pleased to lengthen out to me the time of repentance and to move me to it by thy spirit and by the word, by thy mercies, and by thy judgments; out of a deepness of thy mercies, and by my own unworthiness, I do appear before thee at this time; I have sinned and done very wickedly, be merciful to me, O God, and pardon me for Jesus Christ sake; instruct me in the particulars of my duty, and suffer me not to be tempted above what thou givest me strength to bear. Take care, I pray thee of my affairs and more and more direct me in thy truth, defend me from my enemies, especially my spiritual ones. Suffer me not to be drawn from thee, by the blandishments of the world, carnal desires, the cunning of the devil, or deceitfulness of sin. work in me thy good will and pleasure, and discharge my mind from all things that are displeasing to thee, of all ill will and discontent, wrath and bitterness, pride & vain conceit of myself, and render me charitable, pure, holy, patient and heavenly minded. be with me at the hour of death; dispose me for it, and deliver me from the slavish fear of it, and make me willing and fit to die whenever thou shalt call me hence. Bless our rulers in church and state. bless O Lord the whole race of mankind, and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thee and thy son Jesus Christ. Pity the sick, the poor, the weak, the needy, the widows and fatherless, and all that morn or are broken in heart, and be merciful to them according to their several necessities. bless my friends and grant me grace to forgive my enemies as heartily as I desire forgiveness of Thee my heavenly Father. I beseech thee to defend me this night from all evil, and do more for me than I can think or ask, for Jesus Christ sake, in whose most holy name & words, I continue to pray, Our Father....

Tuesday Morning
O Lord our God, most mighty and merciful father, I thine unworthy creature and servant, do once more approach thy presence. Though not worthy to appear before thee, because of my natural corruptions, and the many sins and transgressions which I have committed against thy divine majesty; yet I beseech thee, for the sake of him in whom thou art well pleased, the Lord Jesus Christ, to admit me to render thee deserved thanks and praises for thy manifold mercies extended toward me, for the quiet rest & repose of the past night, for food, rainment, health, peace, liberty, and the hopes of a better life through the merits of thy dear son's bitter passion. and O kind father continue thy mercy and favor to me this day, and ever hereafter; propose all my lawful undertakings; et me have all my directions from thy holy spirit; and success from thy bountiful hand. Let the bright beams of thy light so shine into my heart, and enlighten my mind in understanding thy blessed word, that I may be enabled to perform thy will in all things, and effectually resist all temptations of the world, the flesh and the devil. preserve and defend our rulers in church & state. bless the people of this land, be a father to the fatherless, a comforter to the comfortless, a deliverer to the captives, and a physician to the sick. let thy blessings guide this day and forever through J. C. in whose blessed form of prayer I conclude my weak petitions--Our Father....

Tuesday Evening
Most gracious God and heavenly father, we cannot cease, but must cry unto thee for mercy, because my sins cry against me for justice. How shall I address myself unto thee, I must with the publican stand and admire at thy great goodness, tender mercy, and long suffering towards me, in that thou hast kept me the past day from being consumed and brought to nought. O Lord, what is man, or the son of man, that thou regardest him; the more days pass over my head, the more sins and iniquities I heap up against thee. If I should cast up the account of my good deeds done this day, how few and small would they be; but if I should reckon my miscarriages, surely they would be many and great. O, blessed father, let thy son's blood wash me from all impurities, and cleanse me from the stains of sin that are upon me. Give me grace to lay hold upon his merits; that they may be my reconciliation and atonement unto thee,--That I may know my sins are forgiven by his death & passion. embrace me in the arms of thy mercy; vouchsafe to receive me unto the bosom of thy love, shadow me with thy wings, that I may safely rest under thy suspicion this night; and so into thy hands I commend myself, both soul and body, in the name of thy son, J. C., beseeching Thee, when this life shall end, I may take my everlasating rest with thee in thy heavenly kingdom. bless all in authority over us, be merciful to all those afflicted with thy cross or calamity, bless all my friends, forgive my enemies and accept my thanksgiving this evening for all the mercies and favors afforded me; hear and graciously answer these my requests, and whatever else thou see'st needful grant us, for the sake of Jesus Christ in whose blessed name and words I continue to pray, Our Father....

Wednesday Morning
Almighty and eternal Lord God, the great creator of heaven & earth, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; look down from heaven, in pity and compassion upon me thy servant, who humbly prostrate myself before thee, sensible of thy mercy and my own misery; there is an infinite distance between thy glorious majesty and me, thy poor creature, the work of thy hand, between thy infinite power, and my weakness, thy wisdom, and my folly, thy eternal Being, and my mortal frame, but, O Lord, I have set myself at a greater distance from thee by my sin and wickedness, and humbly acknowledge the corruption of my nature and the many rebellions of my life. I have sinned against heaven and before thee, in thought, word & deed; I have contemned thy majesty and holy laws. I have likewise sinned by omitting what I ought to done, and committing what I ought not. I have rebelled against light, despised thy mercies and judgments, and broken my vows and promises; I have neglected tech means of Grace, and opportunities of becoming better; my iniquities are multiplies, and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing, and desire to be vile in my own eyes, as I have rendered myself vile in thinned. I humbly beseech thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins, for the sake of thy dear Son, my only saviour, J. C., who came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance; be pleased to renew my nature and write thy laws upon my heart, and help me to live, righteously, soberly, and godly in this evil worlds; make me humble, meek, patient and contented, and work in me the grace of thy holy spirit. prepare me for death and judgment, and let the thoughts thereof awaken me to a greater care and study to approve myself unto thee in well doing. bless our rulers in church & state. Help all in affliction or adversity--give them patience and a sanctified use of their affliction, and in thy good time deliverance from them; forgive my enemies, take me unto thy protection this day, keep me in perfect peace, which I ask in the name & for the sake of Jesus. Amen.

Wednesday Evening
Holy and eternal Lord God who art the King of heaven, and the watchman of Israel, that never slumberest or sleepest, what shall we render unto thee for all thy benefits; because thou hast inclined thine ears unto me, therefore will I call on thee as long as I live, from the rising of the sun to the going down of the same let thy name be praised. among the infinite riches of thy mercy towards me, I desire to render thanks & praise for thy merciful preservation of me this day, as well as all the days of my life; and for the many other blessings & mercies spiritual & temporal which thou hast bestowed on me, contrary to my deserving. All these thy mercies call on me to be thankful and my infirmities & wants call for a continuance of thy tender mercies; cleanse my soul, O Lord, I beseech thee, from whatever is offensive to thee, and hurtful to me, and give me what is convenient for me. watch over me this night, and give me comfortable and sweet sleep to fit me for the service of the day following. Let my soul watch for the coming of the Lord Jesus; let my bed put me in mind of my grave, and my rising from there of my last resurrection; O heavenly Father, so frame this heart of mine, that I may ever delight to live according to thy will and command, in holiness and righteousness before thee all the days of my life. Let me remember, O Lord, the time will come when the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall rise and stand before the judgment seat, and give an account of whatever they have done in the body, and let me so prepare my soul, that I may do it with joy and not with grief. bless the rulers and people of this and forget not those who are under any affliction or oppression. Let thy favor be extended to all my relations friends and all others who I ought to remember in my prayer and hear me I beseech thee for the sake of my dear redeemer in whose most holy words, I farther pray, Our Father...

Thursday Morning
Most gracious Lord God, whose dwelling is in the highest heavens, and yet beholdest the lowly and humble upon the earth, I blush and am ashamed to lift up my eyes to thy dwelling place, because I have sinned against thee; look down, I beseech thee upon me thy unworthy servant who prostrate myself at the footstool of thy mercy, confessing my own guiltiness, and begging pardon for my sins; what couldst thou have done Lord more for me, or what could I have done more against thee? Thou didst send me thy Son to take nature upon

grave dancing
Diefenbaker, What is the point on bringing up quotes from founding fathers? How is that germaine? How does that add to the discussion of PZ, Phillipians, Mike Adams, Christianity, etc? As you've already seen, anyone can google some quotes, and from the looks of it, "Their" quotes, beat out "your" quotes!

Adams' Family Values?
"We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus."

"The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." (letter to Thomas Jefferson)

"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." (to Thomas Jefferson)


Verbivore
Thanks for sparing me the typing, LOL. I'll stop now, but this one is pretty choice:

Why three branches of government? Isaiah 33:22

For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.


Semi-smaltzy phrase
I'm an ex teacher. Teaching students to think is obviously important. I taught biology, but critical thinking skills will inevitably lead to questions about science "facts" that any fourth grader would question. Science has no answer regarding the information contained in cellular DNA. If from some primordal ooze a cell appeared...where did its information to create another cell come from? My point being that truth plus thinking skills is necessary. Hitler had Phd's surrounding him and THEY put live people into ovens. Truth and morality is JUST as important as "how to think".

Diefenbaker - You got pwned! LMAO!
Your cherry-picked quotes didn't hold up very long did they?

God is an Angry God
As someone pointed out, there would be reason for the cat to fear you if you were angry. God is angry with sinners all the day.

Being afraid of His wrath in hell is more wise than my cat fearing the loudness of my steps as I walk by her on the carpet.

I cannot help but think it folly for anyone not to be afraid of God.

Jesus said, "do not fear man who can only destroy the body, but after that can do nothing." Does the threat of bodily destruction make you respect the one capable of doing it, or be afraid of that one?

I think if it's one, it's the other. There is an element of "being afraid" in respectful fear. Doesn't the threat of being killed make people afraid?

Jesus goes on, "but rather , fear God who, after He has killed, has power to destroy both body and soul in hell."

Are we not supposed to be afraid of hell? And doesn't that arouse respect for the One whose anger IS hell?

A conversion story…

‘It takes courage for a man to admit that he is sometimes afraid. But that courage is not a gift of random mutation. It is a gift from a God who loves even the most hardened atheist.’ -Dr Mike Adams

Testifying of your faith in the midst of that crowd brings to mind the apostle in Athens before the Greek philosophers. Note there were three responses recorded for our instruction.

“[W]hen they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, ‘We will hear you again on this matter.’ So Paul departed from among them. However, some men joined him and believed...” [Acts 17]

1. Some mocked: Mocking is to be expected. They mocked Jesus Christ. The believer is not above his Master.
2. Others said ‘we will hear you again’: This is certainly more civilized than mocking, but still a rejection of the message.
3. Some believed: In the grace of God the faithful witness bears fruit.

Dr. Adams, you cannot help hear the mocking, but what you may not hear is the conversion story of one you have influenced with your conversion story.

The Lord told Paul on one occasion to not stop speaking ‘for I have many people in this city.’ This is enough to encourage any believer to testify of the Saviour.


The key to understanding my view
Is that I don't many if any people can be absolutely certain of their own salvation from God's fury.

Dr.P.Z.
You are going to make the grade as a TENURED Pro-Fess-Or. I would bet you stayed up late at night as an undergraduate thinking up stuff to rattle your liberal professors. Sometime there are unseen forces that help us in hostile situations. At least you know this and P.Z. does not.

As one of my former preachers said
"Some people say it sounds cheesey to say that 'God is my friend'. Well, I certainly don't want Him to be my enemy!"

Verbivore
I agree that the element that turns the "being afraid" into "respect" is the justness of His power.

Final scriptural support
"work out your salvation with fear and trembling" (Phil. 2:12)"

In at least this instance, and, I am confident, many more, fear means being scared as much as it means respect.

I respect many things that do not make me tremble.

I tremble at many things that make me afraid.

jander
You wrote to diefenbaker:
"Your cherry-picked quotes didn't hold up very long did they?"

But he was right about one thing. The FOunders and signers are no doubt spinning in their graves -- just not for the reason diefenbaker was suggesting.

post-it
Lol, anytime. I liked your last quote. You win!

LOL Mad Dawg
Nice perspective. I concur.

jerubaal
Yes, Fear is fear. Remember the old spiritual?
"Sometimes it causes me to tremble?" I don't know why we all are so resistant to bowing down in Fear and Reverance to an Awesome God. Perhaps it's pride.




Granted, you all have
covered this (fear of the Lord) pretty thoroughly, but I had to put my two cents in. I keep thinking of the instances when an angel appears and the people who see the angel are afraid. And if an angel can evoke such fear, how much more so can God in all of His glory? There is no contradiction with fear, respect, and love. A small child may feel those emotions separately or even simultaneously towards his father at various times.

right cynewulf
And consider Moses and his encounters with God. God is fearsome and powerful and not to be trifled with or casually dismissed. "But for his mercy we would all be consumed."

Why fear the Lord?
For some reason many people believe that God is the Almighty Patsy. If He exists at all, his job is to love and forgive. They may have gotten that idea from their Sunday school teachers when they were little or from some insipid Sunday sermons delivered by the Reverend LeRoy of the Church of What’s Happening Now.

But the God of the Bible is not only Almighty, but also Just. That is the elephant in the room about Christianity, which many people just don’t get. If God is the Eternal Patsy, composed of spun sugar love, what’s with Christ on the cross? What’s His role in the universe?

There is a penalty for sin, and that’s eternal death. That’s what Christ is about. He’s the payment for our sins. But we have to ask. And when we do, God loves us enough to forgive and remove the penalty for our sins from our souls.

And that’s why God is to be feared. Because He’s Just.

Prayer
It isn't the words that make a prayer. It is the emotions behind the words that make a prayer.

Clyde9

I think
that prayer is a several stage process:

1) Fear
2) Gratitude
3) Love
4) Praise
5) Figuring out what God desires (this includes confession as well as external reality)
6) Taking pleasure in the notion that God's will is in fact fuflilled and that it is right and good that it should be so
7) Asking Him to grant what He desires

That's my ideal outline; my most enjoyable prayers often work that way.

Is Adams a Christian?
BornToFarm writes:
"He sort of alluded to that fact by mentioning his conversion. But, that could be his conversion from liberalism. Why? Some of the things he said."

What a ditz. Go babble with your trival, quibbling, analysis of someones style of expression somewhere else. Maybe a second grade ESP class.

Great article!
God's strength is revealed through a Christian's weakness. A Christian is a person who has exchanged pride, rebellion, and alienation for humility, surrender, and relationship. Not a bad deal. Let the hardened atheist mock as he will. It doesn't matter. Jesus has overcome the world!


Sleazy PZ Myers clearly lied
Sleazy PZ did not deny that he gave a false account of the Q&A period -- and the proof is on the videotape. Sleazy PZ's replies are at

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/10/awww_mike_s_adams_noticed_me.php

-- and --

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/10/correspondence_from_the_adams.php

Sleazy PZ's blog "Pharyngula" is unfortunately a very popular blog, averaging about 20,000 hits per day (to see the site meter statistics on his blog, just click on the little rainbow-colored square near the bottom of the left-hand sidebar) . Sleazy PZ even has his own webpage on Wikipedia.

To CB: ON "Arguing Like a Liberal"
I haven't time to read all the comments, so forgive, if I prove to be redundant, but I couldn't help noticing "CB's:"

"The idea that secularists are "angry at God" is the conservative equivalent of the liberal insistence that anyone who disagrees
with them "feels threatened," and is equally silly. Both are presumptuous and self-serving, and both are neither here nor there as far as the matter at hand is concerned. Don't argue
like a liberal, Mike! Conservatives are better than that."

It would seem to me that CB has never been agnostic, or atheist, or a "back-sliding Christian." Otherwise, I think Dr. Adam's correct observations would seem neither argumentative, beneath him, self-serving, nor silly. He was not name calling, but stating a likely fact.

Since I've personally in my past experienced the feeling of threat from Christian's assertions, which I'm here to witness is truly founded in a sense of being angry (or threatened) by God, I found his editorial flawless.

If secularists do not feel threatened, why would they care, belittle, lie, call names? They may not love scubba diving, but it's doubtful they would feel outraged if a scubba diver guest speaker were invited to discuss the subject on campus. We do not feel passionately against anyone or any subject, unless we feel it threatens us in some way. Methinks what threatens secularists confronted by a believer is the fear that the believer may be right. A psychology instructor once said in my class, "Misery loves miserable company." This is undoubtedly true of most secularists, who would like the whole world to be equally graceless and joyless with themselves, and quit being living reminders that they have chosen to stand alone in the dark.


Mike Adams who?
You guys are all going to hell - don't you know it was a giant leprechaun that created the universe?

Sure, I don't have any proof. But I have as much 'proof' as you guys for the things you believe.

Believe me, if you all don't start worshipping the giant Leprechaun toot sweet, you're all in for it, big time.

Grace
comes to those of faith not by their actions but as a gift from God. God created us in His image (what image we do not know) and He gave us free will. It was through free will given Adam & Eve that mankind first sinned, disobeying the first command of God.

We, humankind, should fear, not God per se, but the wrath of God when we ignore and disobey his commands, for his wrath is mighty. Yet, He is a loving God. Just as a father loves his children, God loves we, his children, his creation. Being a good Father, God gives us rules to follow, and being a good Father, He punishes those who "break the rules". And, He does this in His own time.

Secularism, liberalism, doing whatever "feels good" is not following the Ten Commandments, given us by God. If each and every person in the world would just follow the Ten Commandments, whether or not they believe in God, earth would be a paradise.

Those who would lead us in other-worldly directions are to be feared, rejected and not followed.....and we must pray for them.

By the way, Catholics "pray" the Rosary!

Grace, again
Grace is a gift from God, given to those who seek His Grace.

Yada yada yada
just because you Capitalize Certain Words, doesn't make it any holier, or worse for you, any more believable.

Here's a hint: if Jesus died to cleanse the world of sin, he'd better come back and take another crack at it. First time didn't take.

Satan is God
Is this an outrageous statement. No,read 2nd Cor 4:4. Who is blinding the minds of the unbelievers. Also,the sooner that Christians realize that their father has a name the sooner they can come to the knowledge of the truth. Go to Yahweh.com...And to the genius who says we have no proof of a creator and we should worship a giant leprechaun Yahweh says "a fool says in his heart there is no heavenly father". The fulfilled prophecies are all the evidence one needs to believe in Yahweh. But if that is not enough for you, take a look at the stars and moon on a clear beautiful night. Praise Yahweh

what a fraud you are
>Dr. P.Z. Myer did, in fact, make my talk Thursday
>night and something very strange happened: He,
>too, experienced a sudden and dramatic change in
>his level of courage during the course of the
>speech.

forgive my impudence, but i don't believe for a second that you can read minds - not that that should stop you from making up a story based on it, course. nothing spoils a Republican love-in like a simple fact!

Satan is Zod
Honestly, you guys and your book...how about I read Lord of the Rings and start quoting that to you - do you think you'd be any more likely to believe me? Because that's the effect that quoting the bible (small 'b') has on me.

A book written by superstitious barbarians 2000 years ago is not likely to impress me as a life-guide...

Occam's Remington or Schick
Just as a kind of side note:
I'm assuming you're thinking that the obvious persistence of sin shows that the claims that Jesus deid to cleanse the world of sin are clearly untrue.

Just as quoting from the Bible has no persuasive effect on you, demonstrating a clear lack of understanding of Christian teaching renders your criticisms of it nugatory.

"Barbarians"? There's such a thing as temporal chauvinism.

Thank you, Rev. Obvious!
"I'm assuming you're thinking that the obvious persistence of sin shows that the claims that Jesus died to cleanse the world of sin are clearly untrue."

I'd guess you're assuming correctly. See? How hard was that?

As for Christian teachings...which particular sect of Christians are you referring to? For instance: the ones who believe in polygamy, or the ones who don't? I could go on. I'll spare you.

And another thingy: most of the xstians I see on tv lately spend a lot of time quoting the old testament, very little of the new testament. Aren't they actually Jews, then? Why pretend! Come out to your bretheren, fellow Jews!

Oh, yeah
A PZombie showed up to troll this site. Let's "disemvowel" him! (For those who don't know, PZ calls pretty much any commenter on his blog with an opposing view a "troll" and tends to "disemvowel" or remove the vowels from their posts.)

Phil 4:13
Dear Dr Adams,
I live in Florida but have a summer
home in NC near Burnsville.

Get help when the loads too heavy.

Zero


http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=454258a809d709dd;act=ST;f=14;t=3399;st=90

http://www.bloglines.com/blog/hereoisreal

http://www.hereoisreal.com


Here's story # 283 on my web page:

THE STORY OF THE THREE BARES
There are two infinities and I am not talking about cars. There’s infinity ‘big’ and there’s infinity ‘small’. Infinity big is composed of an infinite number of infinite smalls.
You can search in and out, up and down, east and west, as far and as long as you wish. You can even design and build tools to help you along, but they are unending. Man tries to find the small end with a microscope and the big end with a telescope. You were born with naked eyes to function and behold the world around you. That is a bare fact.
There are three time periods: the past, present and future. You cannot live in the past or future.
There are three heavenly bodies that play the greatest role in our lives. The sun, earth and moon. One is too big; one is too little; the other is just right. One is too hot; one is too cold; the other is just right.
I was thinking about that one day as I picked up a Reader’s Digest. I clumsily opened the book near the middle and my eyes fell on some lines of humor, which I began to read. A man vacationing, I believe in a national park, went to the public bath to shower. When he tried unsuccessfully to adjust the water temperature, he shouted in disgust, “This water is too cold.” Another grown-up voice hollered, “This water is too hot.” Then, from a third stall, a small voice proclaimed, “This water is just right.”

Read it!
Before passing judgment on the Bible and whether you think it is true or not, read it! To condemn it as supertition and those who believe it as idiots without having read it -- well, that's deliberate ignorance and it doesn't speak very highly for your intellectual bravery.

When you read the Bible, however, don't cherry pick verses to meet your arguments. Read it like you would read any other book. Do you read Homer and scoff? Do you cherry-pick passages of Shakespeare to support a belief that he was a ... (fill in that blank)? I think the answer is NO! You read those books for what they can teach you and you don't approach them as something loathsome you must tear apart.

The Bible has much it can teach the world. I know because I have read it. You know that it has nothing to teach the world because ...?

The Video?
Uh. I may have missed it, but it seems we're some 150 comments in or so and still no video link. Could someone post it please? Or point me to the comment where it is.

Not that I don't take everyone's completely unbiased word and all, but a little evidence goes a long way (in some circles, anyway).

Reading material
aurorawatcher says:

The Bible has much it can teach the world. I know because I have read it. You know that it has nothing to teach the world because ...?

I've read it, as I have many other religious and philosophical texts including: The Koran, the Tao Te Ching, The Book of Mormon, the Apocrypha, Dianetics, the Kama Sutra....

There are many writings out there that have something to teach us. The questions are:

How much can they teach us?
About what? Everything? Hmmmm.

the Word? wOrd? woRd? worD?
I said before, just because you Capitalize some word doesn't make it special.

I have read the bible, and it has some nice phrases. No sign yet that it was divinely inspired, however. Just another book.

Well, not quite just another book, since no one knows who really wrote it (oh yeah, I forgot: people think that the apostles really wrote the books named after them. Good luck with that.), and it's been rewritten, bowdlerized, and translated over and over.

And try to ignore that a lot of the stories are rewritten versions of earlier pagan myths.

And Mountain Rose: I'm not surprised that you like Lord of the Rings...it's just another fantasy novel, like the bible.

Video?
Now, about that video.... That is the topic of this thread, right? Or are we completely uninterested in the truth?

No seriously, the video....
Uh. This is the thread discussing the Adams vs. Myers confrontation, right? Someone mentioned that there is video evidence of what went on. Where is THAT video?

Thanks for the abortion vids though, charming.

Am I in the Twilight Zone?

Video from UMM Speech
I am the individual who taped Dr. Adams' speech at the University of Minnesota last week, and I have noticed a few requests to see the video. However, I regret to inform the readers of Townhall.com that the video is not publicly available, for three reasons.

1) The video is of terrible quality, and was taken merely for the purposes of the school paper to quote Dr. Adams without fear of misquoting his statements.
2) The video is analog, and it is a terrible pain to transfer from this antiquated format to digital.
3) The most important reason is that the batteries cut out on the camera a whole ten minutes before the events described in Dr. Adams' article even took place, therefore even if I did post the video, it would be of little use to anyone, including Dr. Adams.

Ah, the story of the video!
Great. Now if everyone could stop citing the video as evidence of anything, we can get on with our lives.

To Phylo se phizer
To Phylo se phizer: I see you as a person who has a lot of knowledge, but may be lacking in wisdom, the very thing that turned Mr. Adams from atheist to Christian.

What gives Mr. Adams the temerity to think he can attempt to save unbelievers? Answer: Because he is called to do so. He has become wise, and he believes wisdom spreads when it isn't hoarded. That is why I became a professor, and why he did also.

Why do persons have the stupidity to believe in a book (I assume you are alluding to the Bible) that is thousands of years old, written by persons we don't even know? Answer: Because it contains wisdom, and in sufficient quantities to save those who have ears to hear. Ask yourself a simple rhetorical question: How can so many millions of believers be wrong if there was not something to it?

How can we know what portions of the Bible to believe? Answer: By reading it. But moreover, by reading it with a open mind, refraining from any attitude to rebuke it or scoff at it, same as you would any other book. It is a big mistake to start on page 1 and read it sequentially, like a novel, because almost everyone who does so puts it down long before finishing. There are obviously parts that are hard to swallow. There are also parts that we need to swallow even though it makes us uncomfortable with ourselves. That is its purpose. It therefore must be studied with guidance and strategy to be understood.

It is easy to point the finger to someone who believes sincerely in the major precepts of the Bible and label them as arrogant. It is wise, however, to point that same finger at ourselves and understand our own arrogance toward God. We need to be saved from this plight or mankind is doomed for jungles or atomic dust.

Now to shatter philosophical notions for rejecting the Bible: What if the world had just been created only 5 minutes ago, complete with all memories of its historic past. How could you believe in anything at all?

The answer is, you couldn't, if distance into history is the only criterion used. So even a philosopher is called on to exercise some faith in what has gone before us.

I would offer to you the advice of Phillipians 4:8-9, which is sage advice for anyone, whether a believer or not: "Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you."

If you are capable of using the above as a frame of mind for reading the Bible, plus the help of a friend or relative who knows the Bible well as a guide, you will attain its wisdom.

If you have any comments on this, feel free to email me at johncedwards@sbcglogal.com using the subject "NEED TO KNOW MORE"


Well, I'll give up on the topic, too.
Okay, so I guess we get into the weirdness of "religious philosophy".

from "not the damned NC senator":

"Ask yourself a simple rhetorical question: How can so many millions of believers be wrong if there was not something to it?"

Is this the philosophy the bible taught you? I would say it verges on that of a 4 year old. Millions of people believe in the Koran, are they more right or wrong than you? Millions of people are atheists, are they more right or wrong than you? Why? Why not? Remember to make your answer internally consistent (This means you can't say something like "The Bible is true because the Bible say it is".)

You need to ask yourself more than rhetorical questions. You need to ask yourself real questions and seek real answers. Let us know what happens when you do.

Hint
We capitalize proper names, like Jerubaal, and references to God, like, for example, the Word.

To do otherwise is simply incorrect in the English language (another capitalization rule - languages).

Don't moan at us for proper use of the English language. That's like complaining that someone keeps their elbows off the table while saying excuse me after burping.


razor sharp-- a post in two parts
Looked at your website. How very arrogant of you. If you really want answers, you've got a lot of research to do! But before you do that, here are few questions perhaps YOU can answer.

Job:38-40 "Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:
"Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Dress for action like a man; I will question you, and you make it known to me.
"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements--surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

"Or who shut in the sea with doors when it burst out from the womb, when I made clouds its garment
and thick darkness its swaddling band, and prescribed limits for it and set bars and doors, and said, 'Thus far shall you come, and no farther, and here shall your proud waves be stayed'?

"Have you commanded the morning since your days began, and caused the dawn to know its place,
that it might take hold of the skirts of the earth, and the wicked be shaken out of it? It is changed like clay under the seal, and its features stand out like a garment. From the wicked their light is withheld, and their uplifted arm is broken.

"Have you entered into the springs of the sea, or walked in the recesses of the deep? Have the gates of death been revealed to you, or have you seen the gates of deep darkness? Have you comprehended the expanse of the earth? Declare, if you know all this.

"Where is the way to the dwelling of light, and where is the place of darkness, that you may take it to its territory and that you may discern the paths to its home? You know, for you were born then, and the number of your days is great!

"Have you entered the storehouses of the snow, or have you seen the storehouses of the hail, which I have reserved for the time of trouble, for the day of battle and war? What is the way to the place where the light is distributed, or where the east wind is scattered upon the earth?
"Who has cleft a channel for the torrents of rain and a way for the thunderbolt, to bring rain on a land where no man is, on the desert in which there is no man, to satisfy the waste and desolate land, and to make the ground sprout with grass?

"Has the rain a father, or who has begotten the drops of dew? From whose womb did the ice come forth, and who has given birth to the frost of heaven? The waters become hard like stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.

"Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades or loose the cords of Orion? Can you lead forth the Mazzaroth in their season, or can you guide the Bear with its children?

Do you know the ordinances of the heavens? Can you establish their rule on the earth?
"Can you lift up your voice to the clouds,
that a flood of waters may cover you? Can you send forth lightnings, that they may go and say to you, 'Here we are'?

Who has put wisdom in the inward parts or given understanding to the mind? Who can number the clouds by wisdom? Or who can tilt the waterskins of the heavens, when the dust runs into a mass
and the clods stick fast together?



Job 38-40 part two...
You're not the only one who can ask questions.

"Do you know when the mountain goats give birth? Do you observe the calving of the does? Can you number the months that they fulfill, and do you know the time when they give birth, when they crouch, bring forth their offspring, and are delivered of their young? Their young ones become strong; they grow up in the open; they go out and do not return to them.

"Who has let the wild donkey go free? Who has loosed the bonds of the swift donkey, to whom I have given the arid plain for his home and the salt land for his dwelling place? He scorns the tumult of the city; he hears not the shouts of the driver. He ranges the mountains as his pasture, and he searches after every green thing.

"Is the wild ox willing to serve you? Will he spend the night at your manger? Can you bind him in the furrow with ropes, or will he harrow the valleys after you? Will you depend on him because his strength is great, and will you leave to him your labor? Do you have faith in him that he will return your grain and gather it to your threshing floor?

"The wings of the ostrich wave proudly, but are they the pinions and plumage of love? For she leaves her eggs to the earth and lets them be warmed on the ground, forgetting that a foot may crush them and that the wild beast may trample them. She deals cruelly with her young, as if they were not hers; though her labor be in vain, yet she has no fear, because God has made her forget wisdom and given her no share in understanding. When she rouses herself to flee, she laughs at the horse and his rider.

"Do you give the horse his might? Do you clothe his neck with a mane? Do you make him leap like the locust? His majestic snorting is terrifying. He paws in the valley and exults in his strength; he goes out to meet the weapons. He laughs at fear and is not dismayed; he does not turn back from the sword. Upon him rattle the quiver, the flashing spear and the javelin. With fierceness and rage he swallows the ground; he cannot stand still at the sound of the trumpet. When the trumpet sounds, he says 'Aha!' He smells the battle from afar, the thunder of the captains, and the shouting.

"Is it by your understanding that the hawk soars and spreads his wings toward the south? Is it at your command that the eagle mounts up and makes his nest on high? On the rock he dwells and makes his home,on the rocky crag and stronghold. From there he spies out the prey; his eyes behold it afar off. His young ones suck up blood, and where the slain are, there is he."

…"Shall a faultfinder contend with the Almighty?
He who argues with God, let him answer it."

Then Job answered the LORD and said: "Behold, I am of small account; what shall I answer you? I lay my hand on my mouth. I have spoken once, and I will not answer; twice, but I will proceed no further."

Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said: "Dress for action like a man; I will question you, and you make it known to me.

Will you even put me in the wrong? Will you condemn me that you may be in the right?

Have you an arm like God, and can you thunder with a voice like his?

Adorn yourself with majesty and dignity; clothe yourself with glory and splendor. Pour out the overflowings of your anger, and look on everyone who is proud and abase him. Look on everyone who is proud and bring him low and tread down the wicked where they stand. Hide them all in the dust together; bind their faces in the world below.

Then will I also acknowledge to you that your own right hand can save you. Who then is he who can stand before me? Who has first given to me, that I should repay him? Whatever is under the whole heaven is mine.

Belief in God
For 59 years, I didn't believe that it was possible to have a personal relationship with God. Four years ago I found out that I was wrong.

I'm a retired physicist and had always done things my way. I was quite successful, speaking throughout the world. I had thought about and researched religion and had all the counter arguments down pat: the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, etc., but really I had three things stopping me from accepting Christianity: (1) what if I asked for God to come into my life and nothing happened? (2) How could I reconcile science and the Bible? and (3) I had a number of faults such as anger and swearing [I didn't even recognize other shortcomings at the time] and didn't want to be a hypocrite?

After retirement I managed to dig my self a big hole that I couldn't get out of. I finally asked Jesus Christ into my life and was amazed when He answered. Immediately, He pulled me out of the hole that I had dug. Within 6 months I found that I wasn't getting angry nearly as much and wasn't swearing at all. Then about a year after conversion He led me to material that helped me reconcile the bible with science. I now teach a class on Science and Belief at church.

In my course, I examined the case for evolution and was shocked at what I found. I looked at my daughter’s recent college biology text and found the following characterization of evolution: "Evolution is the core theme of biology. Life evolves. Evolution, the processes that have transformed life on Earth from its earliest beginnings to its apparently unending diversity today, is the one biological theme that ties together all others. Descent with modification accounts for both the unity and the diversity we observe in life. Features shared by two species are due to their descent form common ancestors, and differences between species are due to natural selection modifying the ancestral equipment in different environmental contexts. Evolution is the core theme of biology – a unifying thread that will tie together every chapter of this text."

So next I searched for evidence for evolution in the textbook. I found very little. What I did find was couched in words such as: "could have happened", 'might have happened", etc. I was expecting much more proof.

The real problem is that there are two types of evolution: macro and micro. Microevolution is where individual species change. Everybody, even most Christians, agree that microevolution happens. The problem is with macroevolution which concerns one species turning into another [the predecessor of man and apes turning into a man or an ape]. There is no evidence for this. Virtually all of the evidence for evolution is of the micro type, which is then used to "prove" that macroevolution must be true also. It's a classic shell game.

Needless to say, God has changed my life in many ways. I've been on four mission trips to Central American and run Alpha in my local church. My only regret is that I waited so long to trust in God.

Right on, Mike!
Thanks for being the voice of reason in an unreasonable society. You have the courage to live your beliefs--even when they run counter to the established trend in thought. Thanks.

Verbivore
It's not MY website.

Nice poetry. Thanks for posting it. The bible does have literary merit.

dull razor
"literary merit." Unlike your website.

The video
Any chance you could YouTube it?

Phillipians 4:13
Is a University/College a forum for learning "how to think," a forum for debating ideas in an open, free, safe environment, a forum for learning the history of the world so mistakes will not be repeated, or a forum to "learn" how to hate, stifle ideas and speech one may not necessarily agree with? I want to understand what it is today that students are "learning" in college so I can prepare my granddaughter as she will definitely need preparing extensively based upon the discourse posted on this web site. I'm fearful for our Country's future if this is any indication of the types of leaders we will have in the next generation.

I agree with verbivore
The answers to all those questions are in the Bible. It's the most published work in all of history. If you can't be troubled to look it up, even in this age of the internet, then why should we believe that you are honestly seeking answers from us?

The author of those questions went out of his way to blind himself for the purpose of being able to accuse God.

For one example, accusing God of racism because of an apparent preference for the Jews. If I could live a thousand years, and at the beginning of the thousand I promise my short-lived best friend to prefer and love his descendants over all others for as long as I live, and one thousand years go by, does that make me a racist when those descendants of my one friend have become a race?

If so, then racism is not always bad, because to disavow it in this instance would be to lack honor.

More on Pharyngula
Want more fun with the Myers-Adams battle? I was asked to publish an editorial in the UMM paper. Enjoy it here:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/11/editorializing_mike_s_adams.php

I'm struck by Skierbob's comment. What kind of physicist were you, that you think science deals in "proof"? Of course there's no talk of "proof" in a science textbook. I think you were expecting geometry. I don't know what textbook you were looking at, but we use Purves' Life, which discusses in some detail the evidence supporting evolutionary theory. I suspect from your comment that you weren't honestly looking for evidence, but were simply indulging your prejudices.

TeeHee
It seems some biology professors were created a bit dim and never evolve.

Give 'em hell, Dr. Adams !! (Figuratively speaking)

Professor??
My goodness, who's the Professor PZ comic stand in? Did you read his link and the comments of the fawning amoeba brains?

Get a look at their appreciation for diversity of thought. I'm all for tolerance ... but its fan club scares me.

The Intolerance of the left & and their
When a person has not logical support for a point of view, typically, he/she resorts to ad hominum attacks, enough said about the so-called faculty member at UMM!

Lou Woods
UNF
Jacksonville, FL

Response to PZ
You are correct that science doesn't prove things. That's why physicists talk about propositions, theories, etc. However, biologists and biology textbooks say that evolution goes beyond theory. They claim that evolution is fact. I looked at the textbook that you suggested. It provides a lot of wishy-washy "evidence." Some of this "evidence" can be explained in terms of evolution, but they’re other explanations too. If evolution is a fact then it must be able to be proved.

Physicists don't make such claims. The problem with evolutionary biology is that it's very hard to do experiments. There is only one "evolutionary" tree. We can't go back to the beginning and run experiments to see whether it is true. Maybe that's why biologists are so defensive when someone discusses evolution.

As far as my preconceptions, I was willing to believe that God programmed evolution to accomplish His goals. However, the evidence is doesn't support that evolution actually occurred.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.