Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Friday, November 28, 2008
Michelle Malkin :: Townhall.com Columnist
Giving Thanks for Self-Reliant Americans
by Michelle Malkin
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


In the Year of Bottomless Bailouts, I am most grateful this Thanksgiving for Americans who refuse to abandon thrift, personal responsibility and self-reliance. When the moochers and entitlement-mongers drive you mad, remember that our nation still serves as home to millions of citizens who do for themselves. Like our Founding Fathers, they are God-fearing people -- the ones elitist pundits ridicule as "oogedy-boogedy" -- who will never put their faith in the Cult of You Owe Me.

They are people like my reader Jen, who runs a family farm called the Double Nickel in New Mexico. Tired of all the handwringing, "in times like these" rationalizations for unprecedented federal intervention in the financial markets to rescue beleaguered businesses and homeowners, Jen wrote me a letter this week about her own plight and triumph over adversity:

"I am writing to you to share my story of how one can survive hard times and land solidly on one's feet. … So here goes: My husband had an auto accident on Jan. 1, 2005, and our lives and finances changed dramatically. Our income was cut in half, as he has permanent injuries and went from being a field officer to a desk job in a less fast-paced career."

Instead of staying in a home they couldn't afford and waiting for a mortgage rescue from the savior Barack Obama, Jen, her husband and their four children moved to New Mexico because of the much lower cost of living and college tuition expenses. One of her sons is now a soldier -- the third generation in her family to serve, including Jen's father, who was killed in Vietnam. The other kids are home-schooled students (among a growing population of home-schooled kids, whom "The View's" condescending co-host Joy Behar recently derided on the show as being "demented"). Jen continues:

"We sold our lovely home, bought a rundown, fixer-up place and converted it into a farm that could provide garden vegetables to can and an area to have some animals to provide eggs, chickens, ducks, turkey, geese, sheep and goats. … Freecycle and Craigslist turned out to be wonderful assets, as most of our animals came for free or for barter -- and the children and I mucked out stalls on a ranch for sheep."

Yes, they raise turkeys and other animals, and sell them for profit. This enterprise makes them, in the eyes of The New York Times editorial board, which recently decried Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's visit to a turkey farm, "executioners." That's language the Times would never think of using to describe, say, the Weather Underground terrorists who targeted police officers in cold blood. But poultry farmers? Brand 'em with an "M" for murderers.

But I digress.

Instead of awaiting the next stimulus check from the Borrow-Spend-Repeat-Panic politicians in Washington, Jen explains how the family has cut costs:

"I learned how to make my own shampoo, toothpaste, soaps, cloth napkins, dish scrubbies, potholders, skirts (mend all clothes) and most meals from scratch. We heat our home exclusively with wood, and I am currently growing a winter garden. The spring garden will be in containers by the last week of December to prepare for spring planting. I do not see this as a downfall or a tragedy. For those worried about holiday spending: I spent only $100 for a family of six last Christmas, and most of that [on] underwear, socks and the meal."

And she adamantly rejects the victim card:

"This accident has been a blessing for my family. The pain that my husband has daily is not the blessing, but that he is alive and able to continue to watch his children grow into adulthood.

"It also has been wonderful to know that we live in a nation that affords us the opportunity to reinvent ourselves from suburbanites to a country-dwelling farm family. I am ashamed to see the American spirit that made our nation so great now turned into nothing."

Thanks to self-reliant Americans like Jen, that spirit lives. In times like these, they are our greatest blessing.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author

Michelle Malkin makes news and waves with a unique combination of investigative journalism and incisive commentary. She is the author of Unhinged: Exposing Liberals Gone Wild .

Be the first to read Michelle Malkin's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

©Creators Syndicate
Kudos Michelle and Jen
Good article, Michelle, and kudos to Jen and her family. The true Americans, the ones with moxie and ability are never heard from; instead we are bored with those placard-carrying protesters and other whining human debris that require governmental subsidy in order to perform activities of daily life. When Ovomit entered the race, I realized that he would win, so I quit my high-dollar job because I did not intend to be further robbed by the government. I raise and can my own food, raise and cure my own meat, and purchased a wood stove upon which to cook when he and the Democrat Congress finish destroying the economy. There is a way to beat these people and live a decent life, or at least, there is a way to survive despite these parasites that call themselves 'progressive;' yes we can!

Idiot Robert

Sorry - it is your left-wing lunatic buddies in the US Congress that is fueling the bail-outs.

After all, if you knew how the government worked, you'd know only the legislature can appropriate and spend tax dollars.

F minus for you...

But hey, you DID get 2nd place on Michelle's column!

The Village Idiot, aka Robert writes:
"Primus...try and learn some reality."
-----

Ha!

This coming from someone whose entire life is lived in fantasyland.

Seen any single-rudder F-15s lately?

Hahahaha...

On the bright side of all this
Only roughly 7 hours to go until Ranger Robbie Retards posts are deleted.

Michelle
Thanks for this column, and thanks for showing the letter from Jen.

Would that more of us were that self-reliant.

Ranger 28 1/2
Chris Dodd, your lover Barney & the DNC engineered the Fannie & Freddy fiasco, not President Bush.
And it is suspected to have been for political purposes.

You need to learn more about your rubbish friends.

Great Article Michelle
I am laying out plans to follow in Jen and her familys footsteps. I know there is a storm coming and it ain't gone be pretty!
Stocking up on food you need for a year or two would take up to much space, so I too figured it would be easier to grow and raise what we need.

Keep up the good work/writing Michelle, I am going to miss you when the we are silenced from speaking our minds, and following the masses of 52%.

Do the numbers add up?
Your letter writer is a fine example of finding a way out of a potential disaster instead of sitting and panicking in the middle of the debacle.

Jen got in early. Are there enough fixer-upper subsistence farms on the market for all the beleaguered sub-prime mortgagors, and even if they're all willing to move, are there enough people to buy up the houses that would be flooding the market?

no handouts
I am 6,000 dollars in credit card debt and fading fast but im skrimping too. this is life and though I may ask for help i will never demand it, that is the difference between the self reliant and the dependents in this country.(other than the whining) I know i will pay it off eventually. but losers have been bred to be losers for so long that they are also confident like me, except their confidence is in government solving THEIR problems. send the dependents to the communist countries and trade them for those starving for freedom.

Great story
Thanks for Jen's story. Happy Thanksgiving. Just a request to Robert. Is there anything you are thankful for that is positive? (Skip your glee about the GOP, we've heard all that).

Our Depression Era Parents
I am hearing more and more people quoting their Depression Baby parents who learned thrift and self reliance from their parents and who used that knowledge to give us the life that far too many have now p***ed away under the impression that the good times roll forever...that they will never get to the bottom of the cereal box or the end of Summer Vacation.

My granny taught Mama and she taught us: use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without. Buy classics. Buy shoes that can be repaired. Buy toys that can be used for more than one game and that do not need batteries; buy board games that do not depend on the knowledge of one teevee show. (I taught some kids waiting in a very long security line to play rock paper scissors, a game that requires only fingers -- that neither they nor their mother had ever played. Further up the line another mother and her kids were playing Simon Says. Brave New World has taught kids that they need Equipment to play games. Our parents knew better. The best and most useful toys are a stick and a cardboard box.)

if your grandparents are still around, ask them for tips. You will be amazed how timely they are.

Tempting
It is tempting to let my unsold house's mortgage fall into arears for the hand-out waiting courtesty of Uncle, cause I had to have a job and Illinois isn't cheap to rent. Imagine paying 4.00 for an orange juice at a local restaurant if I were to go out? But, there's this thing called personal responibility and it isn't right.
You know, despite all the other people i will have to pay for in the mean time.
Good for Jen and her family for raising her kids the right way.

Michelle the lightening rod
Thanks Michelle for your words and insights. Your message shows that there are people out there who do not look to the government to provide for their daily need but stand on their own two feet. They are the inspiration for others. It is unfortunate that your writing is attacked by morons such as Robbie ranger. It must make him feel important to leave messages that miss the point and only show what an idiot he is to the rest of us. Hopefully he will go away and, if nothing else, serve as a good example of what not to become. Everyone who posts here makes us happy, some when they sign on and some when they sign off.

Robbie magna stulta est

Individual or Collective Rights

The individual citizen is the smallest minority in any society.

A primary element of individualism is individual responsibility for self-determination, decisions, actions, deeds and accepting responsibility for everything one does or fails to do.

An integral part of that responsibility is productivity.

The individualist realizes that little nature gives one is suited for survival and must be transformed to meet their needs and the needs of those they are responsible for i.e. family.

The individualist must be pro-active and seek to enhance skills, knowledge and implements to ensure the survival and well being of self and family.

The individualist reasons that their identity is based on individual actions and pursuits and not on a group whether that group is race, gender, sexual preference or industry.

The individualist does not seek a life apart from others but understands that others are only a part of reality whereas ‘collectivists see the group as reality’.

This important distinction allows individuals to interact with other individuals instead of the mediator of the collectivist group.

Reason and thought are individualistic by definition, as no one can think or reason for another.

Individuals can start with the ideas of other individuals and build upon those ideas or create new ideas and thought but every step is individualistic based on other individuals not on a collectivist group.

The individualist believes in a Constitutional Republic that is ruled by law and NOT in a Democracy that is mob rule.

The individualist believes that the government should be limited and its power and should be constrained on the individual citizen.

Constitutional Republic vs Democracy

The framers of the US Constitution feared that the American form of government might turn into a Democracy ruled by mobs instead of by law.

The simple analogy of the difference is a lynch mob - the one being lynched has a vote but the mob has more votes.

America was founded on the rule of law to insure the individual citizen rights and protections under law.

Pure Democracy can create rights and take them away based on who is in power.

The long ardous journey towards the ideal of a Constitutional Republic is now being turned around by Democrats by adding rights to selected 'collective groups' with policies like 'Affirmative Action'.

Selected groups are given 'rights' by 'Affirmative Action' that deny 'rights' to other individual citizens - this is 'racism' in its purest form.

This 'racist' approach is deemed necessary for the 'Sacrifice for the Common Good' of society the hallmark cry of 'collectivism' and the various strains of Marxism and Barack Obama and his supporters.

Thomas #15 5:23am
When and IF you get your credit card(s) paid off, i would suggest you take a pair of scissors and cut them up!!!!!!!!!

I wish you the best of luck!!!

I have started to wonder
what in the world most modern Americans would do if we really had a serious emergency or crisis. As far as I can tell, many cannot cook beyond their microwave let alone grow, can, butcher, hunt their own food.

And we have lost the knowledge and skills needed to repair machinery, build our own shelter, sew our own clothes, etc.

For heavens sake there are large portions of the population who will wait for the government to defend their homes from invaders and apparently can't move out of the way of a hurricane without government assistance.

It is pitiful how helpess so many of us are. Small children have better survival skills.

How many people would be capable
of returning to subsistence farming and basically living like the pioneers did. We have been spoiled as a society. Most people would not know where to start.

What Jen did was truly amazing for this day and age. Nevertheless, she had to do it or go on welfare.

I have an uneasy feeling there will come a time in the near future that she will be considered well off and the bankers, ceo's & politicians might be the ones on the outside looking in.

Subject: Constitutional Republic vs Demo
Subject: Constitutional Republic vs Democracy

I bet a majority of Americans, especially the liberals, have no idea there is a major difference between a Republic and a Democracy. We are a Republic per our Constitution, regardless of what the courts, congress, and the liberals say!

Great Article Michelle!
Jen and her family highlight the difference in the conservative versus liberal ideals.

Conservatives want to be self sufficient and have government get out of their way.

Liberals want government to control their lives and influence society.

I know this is stating the obvious and rather simple but it is the only way to go.

By the way: does anyone know the address to the "Office of the President Elect"? I'd like to send this article there.

Michelle, Clear Headed Thinker that you

Always good to read your columns and hear you discuss matters of importance to Americans.

Thanks for being here.

ENTERTAINMENT
How entertaining will it be for the majority of Americans who enjoy 'watching' survivor shows on TV, when they are faced with the reality of 'surviving' themselves?
The Host (government) will eventually die from all the 'parasitic' humans in our Country feasting upon it. And those, like Jen and her family have better squirreled away 'arms' to protect and fend off these same parasites who will then come and try to take or live off of what they've done to survive.

Excellent
column. Jen took adversity and turned it into a blessing. She and her husband have given her
children a far richer inheritance than if they'd
just given them a financial inheritance.

It does seem that the American people are spitting into the wind, the majority are against the bailouts yet our elected king and queenlets are telling us to eat cake.

LMAO
Now Michelle embraces the hippie life style??? LMAO Michelle let's see they were forced into poverty etc and you recommend this as a course for all? They were the lucky ones who had resources to liquidate. I wonder if they paid all their bills and what their credit rating is? It is the conservatives who are filling the bankruptcy courts now... Maybe they can all go back to the land LOL

Problem Solved
Here's what is to be done.

First, the state national guards should be activated and posted on alert in all of our major urban cities. They should be armed with shoot to kill orders when given the command, because. . .

Second, the bailouts are cancelled and failing companies forced into an expedited bankruptcy with specialists assigned to manage the restructuring. Jobs will be salvaged, but at realistic pay and allowances, for everyone - executives and workers.

Third, all government safety nets are eliminated for all able bodied adults. Work or starve! These people will then be forced to find the jobs that "no one will do." Consequently, they will compete with illegals and displace them.

Fourth, no benefits for illegals.

Fifth, any employer caught hiring illegals will be proscribed. All of his property, assets, and wealth will be confiscated and used to reduce taxes and the public debt, after bounties are paid to informers.

The results: government spending drastically reduced, the debt diminished, taxes lowered, unemployment drops, and illegals flee to their homelands without the need to be deported at great expense.

Oh, and the national guard troops at the ready in our cities? They will shoot all the rioters and looters outraged by the cutoff from their unearned income at the expense of productive citizens. After thousands of them are mowed down, the others will submit. And American will be a much better place.

Is this so hard? Do I have to do all the thinking around here?

Can you bake your own bread?
I recall working at a corner grocery store in Chicago during a "100 year" blizzard in January of 1967. We quickly sold all the loaves of bread and it would be days before more would arrive. Many shoppers did not know what to do. Who would "save" them? Why wasn't the mayor doing anything about it?

In the meantime, my mother was home baking her own bread.

I imagine that 95 per cent of modern Americans couldn't bake bread if their lives depended on it. Ask the average person what "yeast" is and they'll look at you as though you're from another planet.

Should there ever be a major disaster in the United States (a massive earthquake, for example), more people will die than necessary because they don't know how to fend for themselves. I have news for them: Obama can't stop earthquakes any more than Bush could stop hurricanes.

The New Mexico family in Ms. Malkin's story will be among the survivors. They are the true Americans, not the whiners and cry-babies.

http://www.colony14.net


Hal Doofass scribbles;
Subject: LMAO
Now Michelle embraces the hippie life style??? LMAO Michelle let's see they were forced into poverty etc and you recommend this as a course for all? They were the lucky ones who had resources to liquidate. I wonder if they paid all their bills and what their credit rating is? It is the conservatives who are filling the bankruptcy courts now... Maybe they can all go back to the land LOL

Doofass: You have been sucking on the government teat for so lomg, you don't know how to survive w/o the government giving you everything.

Hal
I see you are over here lying like a you know what.

At first, i thought you to be a reasonable person. I see that i was wrong.
One things sure, you'll never go back to the land.
You should wish Republicans(American Patriots) and this Republic well, else you'll probably starve.

I pulled a John Galt...
Sensing the end was coming, I retired within the past year and did my best to put my assets where the government can't readily get at them. I moved from a big city to a small town, sold two newer cars and bought one older car, and learned to do without a lot of things. I get my news from the Internet, and haven't watched CBS, NBC, or ABC in over a year. My income is one fifth of what it was, yet I am saving more than I did when I was working. Four dollar gas? I ride my bicycle or walk when I can.

I have time to read, write, and paint. I don't miss the "rat race" one bit. But I'm sure the city, state, and federal government miss my taxes...

http://www.colony14.net

This bailout makes me ill!!!
All of this bailout reminds me of a bunch of brats and that is a fact.
I always thought that if a person or a company doesn't learn by their mistakes OH well what happened to the old saying life is hard go on your own and fix it yourself. I know when I was growing up and my parents told me that I would be making a mistake to do that because of this would happen and I did it anyway fully realizing what could happen I would have to fix it myself and that is the way it was.
Now we have these big brats knowing what could happen if they keep making these huge cars is the wrong way to go but they kept doing it even though they knew it was wrong the tax payers have to bail them out the very people that didn't want to buy the cars something seems wrong with this entire picture right right.
But now we don't have a choice and that is the way it is because a lot of people will lose their jobs I think there is another word black mail and that is really sad to say but that is the way it is and that is a fact.
Just like so many brats we have they black mail their parents into doing things they don't want to have to do.
MAY GOD BLESS US ALL NOW AND FOREVER AS I AM SURE HE WILL!!!

Hal Danahue
I think that you're mixing up a pioneer lifestyle with the flower children hippie lifestyle. There is a huge difference (as if you didn't know). I was wondering who the first jerk was going to be to write a put-down and it looks like you come in second to Robert.

This is a wonderful family with with true courage and determination. They are to be congratulated and my family will, I know, gain inspiration from their story.

Thanks you Michelle for raising our determination to make-it.


Hal "LMAO©" Donahue makes me laugh...

"It is the conservatives who are filling the bankruptcy courts now..."
-----

Do you have an actual source for this assertion - or is this another of your anecdotal opinions?

Even if true, it is because you liberals already got your bankruptcies a while ago - none of you are eligible to file.

"LMAO"

Don FL, Nov 28, 2008 - 10:13 AM EST

Don, Unless Obama does the right thing by embracing free market economics and thereby violating his agreement with the far left, there will be many more John Galts.

I think wisdom can only come with education, age, life experience, and problem solving skills.

You seem to have done the right thing for you and your family.

LD35
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 10:07 AM EST
Hal
...One things sure, you'll never go back to the land..."

Golly gee I work with farmers, I am involved in creating community gardens to grow food and I do know how to survive quite well. But thank you for your concern...LOL

"...You should wish Republicans(American Patriots) and this Republic well, else you'll probably starve...."

We are all "real" Americans even you extreme types but why do you keep understanding the rest of us. Like your comment above concerning me with certainty

Yo Hal Donahue:
"Now Michelle embraces the hippie life style???"

Any idiot can conclude Mrs. Malkin is not embracing the Hippie lifestyle. Rather she is highlighting the survival spirit and strong sense of personal responsibility Jen and her family practice.

This family was not "lucky" as you say, the husband had a serious car accident, that's luck? They stayed together, adapted to their new lives, played the hand they were dealt and decided not to live as "victims" to their unfortunate circumstance.

Government can not take place of the family, nor should government be the first place to turn to for financial assistance when life poops on you.

Obama is ushering in an entire generation looking for the gubmint to be there cradle to grave, that's what he ran on and how he was elected. Who will pay the bill?

Obama is an idiot in for a rude awakening, hopefully sooner than later for the sake of our country.


JD's Handsome Son OH, Nov 28, 2008 - 10:

You asked:
"Do I have to do all the thinking around here?"

No, but if you choose to do the thinking, you do have to convince at least 3% of us that your methods will work.

You should know that you do have some agreement among your peers.

The religion card
>our nation still serves as home to millions of citizens who do for themselves. Like our Founding Fathers, they are God-fearing people<

What incredible hubris. There's no correlation between being independent of government handouts and being God-fearing. I would submit that there are millions of citizens who are God-fearing that accept government assistance in some form, from midwestern farmers who receive agricultural subsidies to inner-city church goers on housing, food stamps and Medicaid.
Consequently, there are millions of citizens independent of government entitlement programs who don't spend every waking hour worrying about appeasing God.

It's hard to fathom why Malkin would insert the religion card into an otherwise excellent column.

Judith
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 10:19 AM EST
Subject: Hal Danahue
I think that you're mixing up a pioneer lifestyle with the flower children hippie lifestyle....This is a wonderful family with with true courage and determination. They are to be congratulated and my family will, I know, gain inspiration from their story..."

I have concern about why all the hardship was necessary and what happens if they didn't have the resources to bail themselves out. Why didn't the man have disability insurance? And don't go babbling on that what doesn't kill us makes us stronger (true but lots get "killed" at great cost to society). A better story may well be someone disabled and rebuilding his life into a different career or line of work. Society gains all around

Hal "LMAO©" Donahue asks:
"I have concern about why all the hardship was necessary..."
-----

Spoken like an 100% authentic bleeding-heart liberal, Hal.

"LMAO"

Hal
First of all Hal, Hippies were pot smoking leaches that wanted to live in communes so everyone could take care of their lazy rear ends. Secondly, their social movement didn't last long, why? Because people eventually saw it for what it was....an excuse to be a slacker and a leach. Thank you Michelle for this wonderful story on how some people still have a tremendous amount of correct priorities and self-sufficiency in this country!! Yay!!!

Dave
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 10:34 AM EST
Subject: Yo Hal Donahue:
"Now Michelle embraces the hippie life style???"

Any idiot can conclude Mrs. Malkin is not embracing the Hippie lifestyle. Rather she is highlighting the survival spirit and strong sense of personal responsibility Jen and her family practice."

That was the hippie lifestyle if you check drop out work together - just a reminder

"...This family was not "lucky" as you say, the husband had a serious car accident, that's luck?..."

The accident may have been "luck" but what happened afterward was not. Why was there inadequate insurance to insure the families survival and lifestyle? Products exist to pay off mortgages and provide income for just this type incident.

"... They stayed together, adapted to their new lives, played the hand they were dealt and decided not to live as "victims" to their unfortunate circumstance..."

They were victims of inadequate planning and they experienced pain.

"...Government can not take place of the family, nor should government be the first place to turn to for financial assistance when life poops on you..."

Did I say it should? I am saying that they crashed economically because of poor planning and no social net.

"...Obama is ushering in an entire generation looking for the gubmint to be there cradle to grave, that's what he ran on and how he was elected. Who will pay the bill?..."

I am HAPPY to invest in people so that they and society can thrive. That is not called dependence that is called smart investing. You folks underestimate people

"...Obama is an idiot in for a rude awakening, hopefully sooner than later for the sake of our country...."

You get upset when we call Bush the torturer am idiot but feel free to call President elect Obama one? Nice and by the way, I don't believe I ever called GW an idiot

Hal
Not everyone can pay for disability insurance. You must be on the other end of the scale to have even brought it up.

No babble Hal. Just calling it as it is.

JD's Handsome Son
Your proposal is called fascism and has been tried before. Do not underestimate the national Guard. They are real military sworn to defend the constitution

HAL: BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL.
"I have concern about why all the hardship was necessary and what happens if they didn't have the resources to bail themselves out."

Your concern was answered when B.H.Obama was elected. Now no one will have to worry about having the resources to bail themselves out because the All Feeling One, the All Merciful, Lord B.H.O. will lead the revolution.

Just one nagging question Hal: Who will pay the bill for cradle to grave gubmint security?

Future
I think we are going to see a lot more people like this in the next few years. People are going to go back to basics and rely more on just themselves. With all the product recalls and then the financial meltdown, the so-called simple life is going to hold appeal for a lot of people.

Bravo!
I don't think I could go to the lengths Jen did but have changed my lifestyle drastically. Many things we take for granted will be striped away soon enough,so cutting back now reminds me of how far I've come in my lifetime. Cutting back on silly things affords me more for those things we are about to fight for in Obama's nation.

Touchy, touchy Pancho
Actually, my religion teaches me a whole lot about thrift: avoid all debt - except maybe a home; avoid materialism; learn to be self sufficient; plant a garden; have an emergency food and water supply; set aside money for a rainy day. I don't hear a lot of secular sources giving the same advice. Certainly, big-government doesn't preach this religion.

Some thoughts from a 1939er
I remember my mom making laundry soap for my dad's collars out of lye and animal fat. She'd scrub the color, let it rest for a bit, then throw it in with the laundry. No dryer, so everything was hung out to dry and smelled delicious.

All desserts were made from scratch and we ate deer, ducks, and other hunting kill. We always had good meat as my dad had helped out a local butcher in his time of need, so we got our meat at cost.

My school clothes were hand made; our table cloths and bed spreads were crochet by my mom;
our rugs were braided by her as well. She'd buy clothing at second's stores or at the church bazaars, wash t5hem, cut them up and sewed tubes that could be braided and sewn together.

On the really, really frugal note...one time I had a date and gotten dates for my future husband's room mates. We had a big dinner for all of us before going out. Mom had put her pies out in the back porch which served as a cold pantry. When she went to get the pies, she discovered that the cat had liked the whipped cream off the top of one of them. No daunted, she coated the pie again, served it, and told me about a year later what she'd done. Nobody got sick or died so I guess we were able to handle the cat germs quite well.

The amazing word circumscribe.
Jen me reminds me of the word circumscribe.

We all must reverse our inclinations for the material. We need to realize that the old car that runs well a blessing, anything more is someone else's agenda. All Jen did was take Madision Avenue and throw it out the window.

If you can imagine the plan of your life fitting into a purpose. Let's say that purpose has limits, and confines within those limits.

Example, you are putting together a table you bought at a discount store. The manufacture had foresight to use particular nuts on particular bolts. To make the process easier, the wood was dadoed (tooled) out to fit a bolt so that the nut wouldn't turn with the screw driver turn. The wood is concribed for only that nut.

What Jen did was peal off all the superfluous crap that she had been sold by the hucksters of Madison Avenue. What she found was that she began to love the comfort of the circumscription because it fit like a glove.

All the other stuff, the garbage is to prove a falsehood. The car doesn't really prove you are rich and successful, it just spreads the virus of wannabee.

Satisfying transient desire, is empty. Like honey tastes really good the first teaspoon, but make you sick before you know it.

Satisfying transient desire, hampers the body and convinces it that it is incapable.

Believe me I know, I am on a determined diet. I will not quit. I have to re-train because I desensitized the circumscription.



Sorry...
Scrub the collar,,,,geeez

Judith
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 10:53 AM EST
Hal
Not everyone can pay for disability insurance. You must be on the other end of the scale to have even brought it up..."

I am but know I had to give up something to get something. I guess my point is that some form of disability insurance should be available to all for a price. I see hardworking folks nearly every day who cannot afford health insurance or thought they could pay with it from their savings. Guess what?; they are bust. This imposes tremendous cost upon our whole society especially the medical sector. It is unnecessary suffering and unnecessary expense to society

"...No babble Hal. Just calling it as it is..."

Understand completely I guess my point is I have been extremely lucky in life but I know many who were and are not.

Shallow
Why is it that when anyone is able and proud of their ability to servive a bad incident in their lives, the enlightened make an extra effort to demean them? The animosity displayed by these elitist will never be understood by people with minds and hearts to logically think and feel for the world around them. The above related story by Michelle Malkin is a perfect example of the best in a people or society. How this is not an example for others to emulate is beyond rediculous.
Those nay sayers rely on negetivity to enhance their well being and status at any cost to others. For those who wish to truly assist those in the community in which they live, self reliance is no great mystical ability or secret. One cares for others and HELPS, or one will say they care and HELP THEMSELVES.

Dave
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 10:57 AM EST
HAL: BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL.
"I have concern about why all the hardship was necessary and what happens if they didn't have the resources to bail themselves out."
...because the All Feeling One, the All Merciful, Lord B.H.O. will lead the revolution."

See a silly Limbawl chanter LOL. Al your name calling meant what?

"...Just one nagging question Hal: Who will pay the bill for cradle to grave gubmint security?..."

It is in the bible I think...something about brother's keeper...

We are all in this together at some point we all have been and will all be weak, strong, indepentent, dependent, it is life.

Judith
Not much different from this 1947 version LOL thanks for the nice thoughts

Judith CO, Nov 28, 2008 - 11:03 AM EST

You might enjoy this ode to Kodak:

http://www.openmyeyeslord.net/ALookBackInHistory.htm

Frank
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 11:08 AM EST
Shallow
Why is it that when anyone is able and proud of their ability to servive a bad incident in their lives, the enlightened make an extra effort to demean them?..."

Demean? How so? They are commendable given their circumstances

"...For those who wish to truly assist those in the community in which they live, self reliance is no great mystical ability or secret. One cares for others and HELPS, or one will say they care and HELP THEMSELVES."

My, my a little bitter today? The facts are that at one point you were helpless and needed everything to survive and guess what if you live long enough that time could well come again. It is about helping each other

Hal "LMAO©" Donahue
Pretty much everything you've written is with the benefit of perfect 20-20 hindsight.

Just remember - by and large, YOUR health care and insurance benefits came as part of a package deal from the government - an entity not exactly concerned with the "bottom line".

I know you just cannot imagine a system whereby people don't get all their needs met by the government or some nameless employer, but it just doesn't and isn't supposed to work that way.

Yo Hal!
I appreciate your position that people should be prepared for unforseen events in their lives by purchasing disability insurance, mortgage insurance, and other instruments for financial security.

What I have a problem with is the liberal mindset that looks to the Federal government as the solution for when life hits us hard.

Get the government out of people's pockets, let the people and the free market offer solutions that are more efficient and personalized than anything government could ever offer.

Obama is catering to the "gimme" crowd.
That's why I call him an idiot for his socialist tendencies in a free market society.

Primus54
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 11:20 AM EST
Subject: Hal "LMAO©" Donahue
Pretty much everything you've written is with the benefit of perfect 20-20 hindsight.

Just remember - by and large, YOUR health care and insurance benefits came as part of a package deal from the government - an entity not exactly concerned with the "bottom line"."

I do have insurance outside of government but know I accepted that deal in lieu of compensation which you the citizen thought was a fair trade. The military family is very much a lifestyle where we defend and protect each other.

"...I know you just cannot imagine a system whereby people don't get all their needs met by the government or some nameless employer, but it just doesn't and isn't supposed to work that way..."

I was a VP in two major international trading houses you do not get much more "capitalistic" than that. But who are you to say it doesn't and isn't supposed to work like that? If it makes economic sense do it until it no longer does. That is the case of our current social welfare net - it no longer works and that failure is ruining the country economically and socially

Yo Hal!
As far as name calling goes, it's called free speech and TH is a great forum to get it off my chest.

So I use some Limbaugh lingo? There is truth in humor.....so your point is?

I like Rush, and am glad he's able to be on the radio and hope the "Fairness Doctrine" is not passed into law by the next administration.

Government always invests in 'Failure'

If the Government wants to invest it should be investing in success instead of failure.

Barack Obama's clarion call is to "Sacrifice for the Common Good" - to redistribute wealth, as Obama said to 'Joe the Plumber', "letting those behind catch up".

Who are these citizens that Obama will invest the money taken (stolen) from those who work?

Hard working people that need 'Just a Helping Hand' to catch up? NO!

Hard working students that need help to finish or continue their brilliant educations? NO!

NO, Barack Obama wants to invest OUR money in criminals, those chronically unemployed and those students that have low levels of student academic achievement.

The Government is now investing in 'Failed Banks', 'Failed Financial Systems', 'Failed Manufacturers' and those who made decisions to buy things they could NOT afford.

Those who work hard, get to help criminals pursue their careers, those that won't work, continue not working (with some walking around money) and enable drug users, alcoholics and other addicts to continue their lifestyles.

"Establish 20 Promise Neighborhoods: Obama will create 20 Promise Neighborhoods in cities across the nation that have high levels of poverty and crime and low levels of student academic achievement." Barack Obama, Blueprint for Change

Barack Obama's 'Hope' and 'Change' = 'Investing in Failure' = coming to America with anyone who will work or has a job's help.

Every politician who voted for 'Investing in Failure' should be removed from office.

Dave
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 11:23 AM EST
Yo Hal!
I appreciate your position that people should be prepared for unforseen events in their lives by purchasing disability insurance, mortgage insurance, and other instruments for financial security.

What I have a problem with is the liberal mindset that looks to the Federal government as the solution for when life hits us hard."

I don't think that is the general liberal mindset at all it certainly is not mine or the moderate mindset. What we do require from the government is the leadership and resources to repair what is broken. Remember the government is nothing but a tool if it is broken change it (we did on 4 Nov) Everyone screams nationalized healthcare is bad. Few want it we want a system that works and the federal Government to lead the discussion to develop one that works

"...Get the government out of people's pockets, let the people and the free market offer solutions that are more efficient and personalized than anything government could ever offer..."

The government's job is to ensure the free market operates. It has not for at least the last 8 years. It was not business by competition it was business by government favor

"...Obama is catering to the "gimme" crowd.
That's why I call him an idiot for his socialist tendencies in a free market society..."

See I don't see that I see the Bush regime as catering to the gimme crowd that was what K street and no bids wee all about. I think you mistake cost reduction and investment as catering to the gimme crowd it does not have to be at all. It is the old argument of teaching a person to fish...

No Wonder America is in Financial Crises

Hal Donahue wrote: "...I was a VP in two major international trading houses..."

Donahue, Franks and Dodd - banding together to 'Shakedown' and destroy America!


Dave
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 11:32 AM EST
Yo Hal!
As far as name calling goes, it's called free speech and TH is a great forum to get it off my chest.

So I use some Limbaugh lingo? There is truth in humor.....so your point is?..."

To let you know that I knew exactly what you were doing and where it was coming from LOL

"...I like Rush, and am glad he's able to be on the radio and hope the "Fairness Doctrine" is not passed into law by the next administration..."

LOL the old druggie is a master entertainer. I listen occasionally when driving. The airwaves are mine too LOL so shouldn't it be fair and balanced? Heck he could go on satellite or internet and escape all that fairness

My Thinking
I see some misguided individuals have come in here to criticize my well reasoned solutions, posted earlier at 10:02am, erroneously calling them fascist or unworkable. Such petty, narrow minded limited thinkers haven't the capacities to recognize genuis when they trip over it in broad daylight. Fools.

And I see the biggest fool, Hal Donahue. I thought we were done with him long ago, but since he's been banned from the Huffington Post he has too much free time on his hands and so he's back annoying us like so many flies from the Left.

Proof of my solution is that it's not being used. All the other "solutions" have been employed and all of them, without exception, have failed, horribly. Therefore, by simple deduction, mine is the correct one.

More proof that everyone else is wrong confronts us every day as more beggars have their hands out for our money. How long can this continue? Math and gravity are twin bytches and most unforgiving. When that number is reached, it all comes down and all of us with it. We delude ourselves thinking we can always have all that we want, now, all the time, at no cost. It's a flaw in logic that started with the '60s hippies and mutated virulently with their children who were breast fed until they were 18, kept at home until they were 30, and never grew up.

And, of course, we have so many hyphenated people - cripples, slaves, serfs and various ethnic groups claiming rights to the treasury because of some perceived slight.

It's all going to collapse and then we will see some ugly reality as this "tolerant" culturally diverse "melting pot" unravels and descends into barbarity.

But I'm ready. All my stuff's paid for and I'm armed to the hilt. I didn't wait for the election to arm up.

Nobody better come to my house stealing my stuff. Trespassers will be violated!


Retired Geek
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 11:34 AM EST
Subject: Government always invests in 'Failure'..."

Space program, WWII, interstate highway system, opening the west i.e. the Ohio River Valley, transcontinental railroad, Cold War You are simply very wrong
"...Barack Obama's clarion call is to "Sacrifice for the Common Good" - to redistribute wealth, as Obama said to 'Joe the Plumber', "letting those behind catch up"..."

People did that during and afterWWII and that seemed to work. Joe the plumber is a classic example of a fundamentalist conservative all talk acts differently.

"...Who are these citizens that Obama will invest the money taken (stolen) from those who work?..."

The very young, the talented, the weak and neglected actually almost everyone at some time or point

"...Hard working people that need 'Just a Helping Hand' to catch up? NO!..."

Not true at all

"...Hard working students that need help to finish or continue their brilliant educations? NO!..."

Wrong yet again he actually mentions this one as a target


Retired Geek 2
"...NO, Barack Obama wants to invest OUR money in criminals, those chronically unemployed and those students that have low levels of student academic achievement..."

Now who said that? We have to give some to the rred states but still... LOL

"...The Government is now investing in 'Failed Banks', 'Failed Financial Systems', 'Failed Manufacturers' and those who made decisions to buy things they could NOT afford..."


What part of conservatives are doing this don't you understand? Obama is not president yet

"...Those who work hard, get to help criminals pursue their careers,...addicts to continue their lifestyles.

"Establish 20 Promise Neighborhoods: Obama will create 20 Promise Neighborhoods in cities across the nation that have high levels of poverty and crime and low levels of student academic achievement." Barack Obama, Blueprint for Change"


Isn't the largest current recipient of welfare rural white males?


JD's Handsome Son
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 12:02 PM EST
Subject: My Thinking
I see some misguided individuals have come in here to criticize my well reasoned solutions, posted earlier at 10:02am, erroneously calling them fascist or unworkable..."

Nope facist they are go check

"... Such petty, narrow minded limited thinkers haven't the capacities to recognize genuis when they trip over it in broad daylight. Fools..."

LMAO now JD's is a genuis...LMAO

"...And I see the biggest fool, Hal Donahue. I thought we were done with him long ago, but since he's been banned from the Huffington Post he has too much free time on his hands and so he's back annoying us like so many flies from the Left...."

When did they ban me??? They are after me to write

"...But I'm ready. All my stuff's paid for and I'm armed to the hilt. I didn't wait for the election to arm up...Nobody better come to my house stealing my stuff. Trespassers will be violated!"

Why is it that the weakest often talk the toughest?

Self-Reliant Americans
Nice, uplifting article and bless Jen and her family!

I also liked the aside comment about the MSM.

The majority who are those with their hand out to government largess are sadly mistaken that this will lead to a robust nation that is economically and militarily able to keep the rest of the rapacious world at bay or even our internal strife. In fact, socialism has proven over and over again that it breeds resentment among those that produce and have their fruits of their labor "redistributed" and it greatly stifles initiative overall. It's a recipe for disintegration of the Nation from the inside out.


HAL HAS CONVINCED ME.
Liberalism is wonderful.

I'm quitting my job, gonna cry poormouth, gonna let the government provide childcare and educate my kids, provide my family's healthcare and retirement.

Obama is the man.

Where's my check?

Great column!
There have also been many great thought-provoking responses! First off, Judith, I think your mother and mine would have been friends if they had ever met. She passed her problem-solving skills and hard work ethic on to me.

Hal, I notice you were critical of the family for not having disability insurance. Have you likewise chastised the perpetually dependent for their lack of preparation? Having children you cannot afford before you have an adequate education with someone who is not going to assume responsibility of any kind if he decides the grass is greener elsewhere is the ultimate lack of preparation.

Tragedies and unforseen events happen in life. It is how we respond to them that reveals the kind of people we are. If we roll up our sleeves and do what has to be done to get through the tragedy or if we put out our hand and demand Uncle Sam put money in it at the expense of the tax payer--that says it all.

Handsome Son, I always love reading your comments. I disagree with Hal that what you are proposing is fascism. It sounds more like forced responsibility. Yes, people would be up in arms when they found out the government wasn't going to keep treating them like infants, but with tough measures, they would get the point eventually. Once children have become terribly spoiled, it takes drastic measures to get them back into line. When I saw the people in New Orleans after Katrina, I realized how far gone many of our citizens are. It is time to tell them to either better themselves or suffer the consequences.

I'm With JD's Son
America was founded, built, and prospered because its people were independent, self reliant and hard working. The country is declining, regardless of all our possessions, because we've become a nation of free loaders. It won't last.

The welfare state will eventually have to do something it's never done before, once it's siphoned all the wealth from its productive citizens and those people have given up. It will have to tell all the recipients of welfare: No. And that's going to be most unpleasant.

What then will a nation of uneducated, unskilled and undisciplined beggars do when the checks stop coming in? Will they decide to get off their obese, diabetes ridden lard azzes, go to work, buckle down, and find their way to self reliance?

Or will they erupt in chaos and looting, throwing temper tantrums like spoiled children?

Any guesses, anyone?

I, and many, many others are with JD's Handsome Son. We've been preparing and training for that day.

And among that crowd of civil unrest will be Hal Donahue, when his Federal pension goes dry.

Dave
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 12:33 PM EST
HAL HAS CONVINCED ME.
Liberalism is wonderful.

I'm quitting my job, gonna cry poormouth, gonna let the government provide childcare and educate my kids, provide my family's healthcare and retirement..."

Prepare yourself. your first task is to find that check and then figure out the "rules" but please do look for a nice bridge ti live under. An I have you have been helping the homeless because they will be helping you now. Then please do come back to townHall and tell us how it went after 6 months



Dottie
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 12:42 PM EST
Subject: ...Hal, I notice you were critical of the family for not having disability insurance..."

Critical? not at all it is expensive my question is why can't it be more available.

" Have you likewise chastised the perpetually dependent for their lack of preparation?..."

I don't see many rural white males who make up the majority of that category. many of the perpetual urban population are unfit to work but I do try and get their children in programs that offer a way out

"...Having children you cannot afford before you have an adequate education with someone who is not going to assume responsibility of any kind if he decides the grass is greener elsewhere is the ultimate lack of preparation..."

True are you advocating both birth control and sex education along with abortion? Are you saying that abortion and letting the poor starve on the streets will certainly save society money and since they are unfit to compete?

Well said
>The welfare state will eventually have to do something it's never done before, once it's siphoned all the wealth from its productive citizens and those people have given up. It will have to tell all the recipients of welfare: No. And that's going to be most unpleasant.<

The Great Society that LBJ envisioned in the 60s has, in many areas and not limited to minorities, virtually destroyed the American work ethic. I personally know of several single mothers, 100% on the government dole, who have continued to have babies out of wedlock adding to the unsustainable stress on those of us who actually work and pay taxes.
It's not a popular conservative position, but I'd rather pay a few bucks up front for these women to terminate their pregnancies than pay for the housing, feeding and medical care for these offspring, many of whom end up in prison just as they reach the age to become part of the workforce.

Hal Donahue
Just one question.

Have you ever sent the IRS money over and above what you owed?

Entitlement Mongers?
I'm all for back-to-the-land ventures and a spirit of self-reliance, but reactionary rants against so-called "entitlement-mongers" ignore a good chunk of reality. See, for example, this classic piece, which suggests just how much Conservative Joe benefits during a typical day from the kind of progressive legislation he disparages:

http://www.bigcottonwood.net/dayinlife.htm

Pancho
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 1:02 PM EST
Subject:...he Great Society that LBJ envisioned in the 60s has, in many areas and not limited to minorities, virtually destroyed the American work ethic..."

You missed it the Great Society was dumped to fight the Vietnam War instead. Find someone else to blame

"... I personally know of several single mothers, 100% on the government dole, who have continued to have babies out of wedlock adding to the unsustainable stress on those of us who actually work and pay taxes..."

You folks have been in control of government for a long time. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? This is YOUR problem now you didn't fix it. And wait a minute you live in the reddest of red states none of that should be going on in paradise.. LMAO


Primus54
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 1:07 PM EST
Hal Donahue
Just one question.

Have you ever sent the IRS money over and above what you owed?"

WHAT!!! And give conservatives a free ride???? No way I pay my share not one penny more. You free riders and deadbeats will get nothing from me

Self Reliance
Great article Michelle. My father always said, "Pray to God for good health, and do the rest yourself". I've lived by these words and it's not a bad philosophy.

Why Obama Was Elected
There is a study by the US Department of Education titled Adult Literacy in America. It’s stunning.

It reveals that finding a literate audience for any political argument in this country is extremely difficult. A large portion, if not the majority, of adult Americans lack basic skills needed to evaluate ideas and formulte judgments. Ninety million Americans cannot write a coherent letter, comprehend bus schedules, or even do addition and subtraction on a calculator. The study described us as about what you’d expect if 90 million of us were progressing through various states of Alzheimer’s Disease. Thirty million Americans were judege so incompetent that they could not even respond to questions!

This is why we’ve become so vulnerable to messianic personalities, “divine kings” with the qualities of a perfect father, perfectly wise and just, someone who protects the weak. But he’s also like the perfect son who must transform the world, the Messiah is will make a new heaven on earth and will then stand back and say: “Behold, I make all things new!”

Our new messiah is superhuman, colossal, omnipotent who’s already assumed the reigns of power and commands our attention while he dazzles and awes us with his promises to cure all of our ills. The media breathlessly reports on his every move and reinforces his message that all of our wants and needs will soon be met. Chris Mathews’ legs tingle at the mere sound of His voice. He’s our Leni Reifenstahl.

And we raise our arms to him in large gatherings and beseech him to dole out the surplus government cheese, pay off our mortgages and student loans, and make someone else pay the cost.

But I instead raise my arms to praise Judge Scalia and Bushmaster, Armalite, Rock River, DS Arms, and Smith and Wesson.

MARIO:
Is it that time of the month again?

For a peace loving, kumbaya, granola, veggie,
"can't we all get along", "I feel your pain", tolerant, "we are the world", bleeding heart, equality and justice for all liberal, you sure are full of HATE.

I'll send you a crying towell and Kotex, poor baby.

Dave/PA #85: EXCELLENT! :-)
Good chuckle!!!

johninoregon
Perfect! All this version of conservatism has done is use up the resources and infrastructure we had and didn't improve or replace them.

A perfect example is today's military extremely overstretched and underequipped

They are deadbeats

Self Reliant...or Inter-Reliant?
With certain reservations I applaud Jen for her frugality...for [at 72] I live much the same lifestyle. I practice the old Depression Era adage of "make it do, wear it out, make it do, or do without". It's called a "subsistence livelihood" and the American economy would collapse and never recover if WE ALL adopted such a life style. We have never been truly "self-reliant" but rather we've been "inter-reliant". We've attained a high standard of living because we practice CONSPICUOUS CONSUMPTION! Every dollar which we hoard is one less dollar spent...and one less dollar to simulate the economy.

The moderate priced retailer "Lines & Things" is now liquidating because folks opted instead for Wall-Mart's cheap imports. So a lot of L&T employees are looking for work, they can't pay their mortgages or rent, and they cannot afford to consume [except for the barest necessities]. So the "trickle- down" effect impacts the economic vitality of entire communities [including the butcher, the baker, and the candlestick maker].

No, Ms. Malkin the American ideal is not a lofty economic "self-reliance" but a mutually beneficial "inter-reliance".

Jim-Too

JD's Handsome Son Location: OH Reply #
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 1:15 PM EST
.... But I instead raise my arms to praise Judge Scalia and Bushmaster, Armalite, Rock River, DS Arms, and Smith and Wesson."

LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LOL, LOL, LOL

Great lessons
“Eat it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.”

I think of how lucky Jen's kids are to have their parents around and active in their lives as they all work together on the farm. Those kids will be extremely prepared to be productive, independent, and happy citizens.

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/we-demand-true-conserva tive-leadership.html


Jim
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 1:22 PM EST
Self Reliant...or Inter-Reliant?
With certain reservations ...It's called a "subsistence livelihood" and the American economy would collapse and never recover if WE ALL adopted such a life style. We have never been truly "self-reliant" but rather we've been "inter-reliant".

No, Ms. Malkin the American ideal is not a lofty economic "self-reliance" but a mutually beneficial "inter-reliance"."

Jim well said and thank you

Dottie
Thanks for reading my post about Mom. After my father died, she eventually married an extremely well to do man. But her habits never changed...it was still "waste not, want not". This is a woman who was yanked from school at the age of 13 and made to go to work by her parents and hand over her paycheck.

Wonderful lady to remember.

About Mario

That guy wrote:
"Probably half of you so called self reliant conservatives are on welfare" and "The only people who are recieving handouts are the rich and the corporations. The govt is giving corporate welfare (socialism) and you fools are ok with this" almost in one sentence...
Ha-ha-ha.

With such malicious cretins, Democracy is the own grave digger.

Not only I said. Churchill said it, too.

Hey, Mario!
Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, Christopher Dodd, Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer, Barbara Boxer, Carl Levin, Russ Feingold, Dianne Feinstein and other Pelosipithecines are now Republicans, right?
Ask them why they are bailing out us Republican rascals....

You are an amazing Cretino Primitivus, Mario!

MARIO--
Mario, can you answer me this:

Why do grown adults want to be taken care of like little kids by a big mommy government? Why don't you want to take care of yourself?

***
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/we-demand-true-conserva tive-leadership.html

Actually, Hal
I do support sex education (although a lot of good it seems to be doing what with the epidemic of teen-aged girls being pregnant). I also support birth control programs that provide birth control to those who cannot afford it. I do not agree with abortion, but obviously, the chronically ignorant must be the ones getting them since they have to behave in a reactionary manner and don't seem to be very proactive. Don't even start with "failure of birth control" agruments because that cannot account for the millions of abortions that have been performed since Roe v Wade.

No matter what seems to be done for the urban poor, welfare still seems to be generational. My son recently gave a speech in his English class about welfare dependency, and he had excellent research that backed up his assertion that welfare, while well-meaning, does much more harm than good. They would not starve, Hal. Charity is there for those who need it. Food banks and soup kitchens are there, Hal. If people had to go out of their way to seek out charity (and make no mistake--welfare is forced charity), people might be more inclined to make responsible choices, or they might, at least, encourage their children to do better.

America is sick of the able-bodied moochers, Hal. We expect them to do something for themselves. The day is coming when they will find themselves cut off, and they need to make sure they are ready for that day.

The Jesuits have it right....

"PRAY as though it all depends on GOD, and WORK as though it all depends on YOU."


The problem is, the liberals (for the most part) ignore or deny that there IS a God, and for the rest, they want the govt., "Messiah O" to provide what they should be working for.


Didn't miss it
>You missed it the Great Society was dumped to fight the Vietnam War instead.<

Hardly. LBJ's advancement of the welfare state created two(going on three) generations of Americans who have never worked and never had to. The closest we got was the welfare to work program under Clinton/Gingrich that Bush appears to have abandoned.

>You folks have been in control of government for a long time. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? This is YOUR problem now you didn't fix it. And wait a minute you live in the reddest of red states none of that should be going on in paradise.. LMAO<

I have no idea what you mean by "you folks" as I've voted libertarian in the last 3 elections, and we've controlled nothing. As for the reddest state quip. Mormons are among the hardest-working and self-sufficient people anywhere. However, due to their extensive missionary activities in foreign countries, there's been an influx of poor immigrants who, besides taking advantage of the Church's generosity, are not adverse to government handouts. There's also been a huge influx of illegals which, as the economy has soured, are now becoming more of an economic burden, than contributors to the workforce. Utah is paradise in that it offers some of the most beautiful mountains, deserts and recreational opportunities found anywhere in the country. Unless you're a surfer, that is.

Hal, Hal
Are you related to Phil?

Indeed you are a religious flosser, all mental tho, and obvious there is no build up of wisdom in your cranium, sorry, head incase you don't know.

I never read your drivil but in reading the responses of the thinking on these threads, I can only wonder why you bother, no one takes you seriously. You too, Robert.

Mario:
"Whatever dirtbag."

Oh no I put a liberal in a tizzy!

Don't throw your loafer at me!

Dave/PA: Perhaps you should include a


gift certificate for a few visits to the local psychiatrist in that "care package" to mario.



Constantine: You are spot on... mario

is indeed an "amazing Cretino Primitivus."

The other thing that's so amazing is that anyone is so hateful, sick, and demented as to purposefully log onto a Conservative site with the sole purpose of ranting and name calling and insulting....

And of course, has not one constructive, honest, or accurate thing to offer.

Unfortunately, your wisdom is wasted on him.

Dottie
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 1:30 PM EST
Actually, Hal
I do support sex education (although a lot of good it seems to be doing what with the epidemic of teen-aged girls being pregnant). .."

Little of it is taking place actually and much of what is is abstinence only and a failure

"...I also support birth control programs that provide birth control to those who cannot afford it..."

careful they will turn on you in here for that

"... I do not agree with abortion, but obviously, the chronically ignorant must be the ones getting them since they have to behave in a reactionary manner and don't seem to be very proactive..."

There will always be these and the challenged, raped etc. According to a recent UN study US teens have far less sex but far more HIV and pregnancy than most of the indistrialized world. We are doing something wrong


"...Don't even start with "failure of birth control" agruments because that cannot account for the millions of abortions that have been performed since Roe v Wade..."

Agree I think ignorance explains most of them


Dottie2
"...No matter what seems to be done for the urban poor, welfare still seems to be generational. My son recently gave a speech in his English class about welfare dependency, and he had excellent research that backed up his assertion that welfare, while well-meaning, does much more harm than good."

But we create gene rationalism by condemning the children of the poor to the exact same lives as their parents.

"They would not starve, Hal. Charity is there for those who need it. Food banks and soup kitchens are there, Hal..."

actually right now they are running out of food. But that aside they create the same dependency as gov programs. The solution is real intervention and care

"... If people had to go out of their way to seek out charity (and make no mistake--welfare is forced charity), people might be more inclined to make responsible choices, or they might, at least, encourage their children to do better."

That is not how it works sadly I have seen it over and over. Many parents are write offs but the children could be saved - they are not. Did you son's paper discuss programs effects in Europe and Asia or just US?

"...America is sick of the able-bodied moochers, Hal. We expect them to do something for themselves. The day is coming when they will find themselves cut off, and they need to make sure they are ready for that day."

As I said the majority are rural white males. Cut them off and you best be prepared to see them dying in the streets..."

Mario, FL

Someone who hates conservatives as much as you do, and who is as smart as you are, should just stay away from us conservatives.

Besides, your vitriol and your diatribes are just not welcome here.


At least, if mario is posting his

vile, reprehensible garbage on TH, we know that he's not out setting fire to animals or molesting children....



Mario:
Did someone pee pee in your Cornflakes this morning? Is that why you're so upset?

Dude, relax, it's Friday, get your woman (make sure you inflate her to the proper P.S.I.), rent your favorate Michael Moore film and enjoy your evening!

Hal "LMAO©" Donahue

Of one thing I'm certain.

THIS conservative has paid far more than you in taxes - so shove that "deadbeat" label up your generous behind.

Constantine: mario is a perfect example

of an intellectually limited liberal....

The fool doesn't even know that Congress can override a president's veto.... (And we wonder how Bozo O got voted it... these ignorant and uninformed people did it!)

But the best part is, he (and most, if not all liberals) don't seem to get it that they have put us on the fast track to exactly the kind of government(?) the have in Russia... the one you fled FROM.

Dottie: You are aware, aren't you???

Hal "doofASS" Donahue is pretty much clueless, and when he's not just out and out lying, he just makes things up as he goes along....


HEY GUYS, WE HURT MARIO'S FEELINGS.
Mario, let me be the first to apologize for our boorish behavior on Town Hall.

Hugs and kisses!

Please stop crying and come back and play, we miss you.

Really.

Dave/PA: Puh-lease... NO!
.

To Mario, this time
Hey, Mario, do you want me to show to you what kind of Cretino Primitivus you are?

You wrote:
"If you don't like our govt go live in russia,"
which implies that you love our government; than what you are compaining about bail-out, Stupido Cretino Primitivus?

You also wrote:
"It takes a president to sign the bill into law retard. A true fiscal conservative would veto, what happened?"

Firstly, if you nicely call me "retard," then you have to go to the first grade of an Elementary school: a comma is needed before your respectful naming.
But based on your name, English is not your mother tongue, right?
Your primary language seem to be sickle-and-hammer and Che, right?

Secondly, NO ONE Republican says that Bush is "true fiscal conservative."
Just the opposite.
So, your shooting is into the air, beside the mark.

Also, you are illiterate, unable even to read. My name is not IGOR. My name is Constantine, you Stupido Cretino Primitivus.

But I enjoy reading your idiotic statemtns, it's like an excurion in a madhouse or a zoo.
Keep farting, pal...Even dooky might be environmentally 'contributive' - it becomes humus with time...



To Anne
You are always so kind to me, thank you, dear Anne.

Hopefully, you had great Thanksgiving dinner yesterday, had you?

Take a look at my Web site and let me know what you think:
http://www.PoemsAndReflectionsConstantineIvanov.com

Anne in PA and Constantine in NY:
Thanks for the laughs! You too Mario!

God bless. Keep up the good work, and enjoy your Thanksgiving weekend!

I'm out.

Mario the Moron

You are a perfect example of "unconscious incompetence".

Look it up...

Shame on me for my typos
(Mario, I kud iamghin khau peynful for u my typos r.
I promiz I weel spelczech nekst taim -:))

Mario, I could imagine how painful for you my typos are.
I promise I'll spellcheck next time.

Now, please re-read:

Hey, Mario, do you want me to show to you what kind of Cretino Primitivus you are?

You wrote:
"If you don't like our govt go live in russia,"
which implies that you love our government; then why are you complaining about bail-out, Stupido Cretino Primitivus?

You also wrote:
"It takes a president to sign the bill into law retard. A true fiscal conservative would veto, what happened?"

Firstly, if you nicely call me "retard," then you have to go to the first grade of an Elementary school: a comma is needed before your respectful naming.
But based on your name, English is not your mother tongue, right?
Your primary language seems to be sickle-and-hammer and Che, right?

Secondly, NO ONE Republican says that Bush is "true fiscal conservative."
Just the opposite.
So, your shooting is into the air, beside the mark.

Also, you are illiterate, unable even to read. My name is not Igor. My name is Constantine, you Stupido Cretino Primitivus.

But I enjoy reading your idiotic statements, it's like an excursion to a madhouse or a zoo.
Keep farting, pal...Even dooky might be environmentally 'contributive' - it becomes humus with time...

Hey Mario
Why don' you tell us all you know about how to go about over riding a presidential veto?

Tell us how many votes are needed, and from what party they're needed, to do this.

When you're done "educating us" about how to override at veto, give us examples of all the "Corporate Welfare" that ADM, Exxon-Mobile, and all the other big corporations get while "the poor get poorer."

Constantine Ivanov

Worry not about the morons like Mario.

Even though you are not native-born, you are a far finer example of what it is to be a patriotic American than most of these liberals who bloviate here.

A fine quote that sums them up nicely:

"It's not that our liberal friends are ignorant. It's just that they know so much that isn't so." -Ronald Reagan

MAKING DO
Emulating our great,great grandparents who homesteaded in this country under severe conditions, is something we might all do. If it's broken, fix it, don't toss it. If you can do without it, do without it. If you can grow it, grow it. (In Japan, the crowded city dwellers grow lots of veggies in container gardens.) Forget the air-conditioning. (I've never used mine. I don't want to throw money at the electric companies.) If you can hang a clothesline, get rid of the dryer. Cook from scratch. Don't spend a thousand dollars a year on soft drinks. Make tea for pennies and take a jug with you. Don't drive for one errand. Wait til you have at least three errands, then go. Buy yr groceries weekly, never daily.

Mario the Moron
Wow - did you think that one up all by yourself?

So - do you need help looking it up?

At least you know who your political "elders" are.


Primus: What could anyone possibly say

about any poster who is incapable to making even a simple statement (of course ALL of mario's posts are "simple") without being being mean spirited, crude, and uncivilized???

OF COURSE, we know that mario is just a skid row troll from PuffHo, where being mean spirited, crude, vile and uncivilized is the order of the day... A PuffHo requirement, so I guess we shouldn't expect anything else from him.

And, as I said, if that little reprobate is here, at least we know he's not out setting fire to animals or molesting children....

Small price to pay I suppose.

Super majority, Mario the Magnificent

Just an FYI for you. All 2/3rd majorities are "super majorities", but not all "super majorities" are a 2/3rds majority. (See US Senate.)

Mario the Pious and Hal the UnionHack
The only people who are recieving handouts are the rich and the corporations. --Mario

Last time I drove through downtown Baltimore at 1pm there were hundreds of able bodied non- working people using plenty of handouts. You don't get away from your moms basement much, do you?

Get your heads out of their tailpipes long enough to see you are backing the party of satan. --again, Mario

Oh, yeah, Satan hates abortion, you nerd

Bush and republicans have presided over the largest tranfer of welath from the middle class to the rich. --once again, the Pious one

Mario, can you read? We know that you can't write. Did the democrats oppose anything or did they vote for and help to sign? What a dimwit.

Prepare yourself. your first task is to find that check and then figure out the "rules"
--Hal the UnionHack

Hal, when your type is involved, the only rule is, you'll have to figure out the "rules". To the left, winning is everything and they are too busy buying votes w/ perceived freebies to live by the rules they design. To wit:

Public schools-- they wont use
Abortion,-- we MUST pay for over our objections
Global (hoax) warming-- Money grab for powerful
Guns-- only criminals are safe
Social Security IOUs --they are exempt from it

You two are true gems. The gifts that keep giving. I use your words to teach my kids what incompetents they will bump up against in life. Losers constantly on the take that they need to be wary of.

Mario the Moron writes:
"You cant just compliment the guy, you republicans are so self righteous you have to keep igor in his place and rub in he wasnt born here. Way to let him know who is superior you commie scum."
-----

Hahahaha... you chastise me for raising the issue of Constantine's immigrant status, while at the same time calling him "Igor"?

Thanks for proving that "hypocrisy" and "liberal" are synonymous.

Oh - and your comments about Reagan just proved the wisdom of his quote.


Why don't you leave before you embarrass yourself any further.

One last thing, Moron Mario

You have the mistaken notion that all conservatives are Republicans.

Think again, moron, I'm am independent.

Anne

Mario HAS to be related to "tr"...

To Michelle, et alia,


I lived a partially subsistence life from birth to age 12, and again from age 25 to about age 40. Until age 12, our ONLY modern convenience was electricity. We had no phone, no newspaper, no gas, no running water, and no indoor plumbing.

Starting about age 8, I hunted, fished, trapped, brought home Morel mushrooms, Paw-Paws, squirrels, rabbits, doves, turtles, and a young groundhog, once. I thought he was attacking me, and did not realize I was just between him and his burrow.

Dad said, you caught it, you clean it, and I'll cook it. I did. He did, and...
Fried in lard and bacon grease! Whoo-boy! Delicious. What a bargain!

I also helped with gardening, and animal husbandry. We heated with wood until age 12, and again from age 25 to age 40. I cleaned so many chickens, I began to hate the smell of this task. Few odors, other than 'Metro sexist' Perfume stenches assail my nostrils to such a degree. The stench of wet feathers reviles me, as does the "Designer Stenches" that many "he's and she's", wear today.

If you can smell somone from more than a foot away, they STINK! I don't care what they call it!

IMHO, if you can smell someone from 50 feet or more, we need to call in an Air-Strike!

I grew domestic rabbits for several years to add to the larder. New Zealand White Giants. Gestation 28-30 days, litters 4-10 to 12, 8 weeks to harvest time, and very tasty. Always put the Doe into the Buck's cage. Never the other way around. Trust me. Your Buck will live longer, and the progeny increases.

Their wastes also made excellent compost which improved the Garden.

The Rat

Actually, mario is the ONLY JOKE around

here is, at least just now.

Probably it's best to simply IGNORE him.


Mario & Hal
both collect welfare & being on welfare means you don't have to learn anything other than where to pick up their check & food stamps.

Judith


Location: CO
Reply # 48
Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 11:03 AM EST Some thoughts from a 1939er
I remember my mom making laundry soap for my dad's collars out of lye and animal fat. She'd scrub the color, let it rest for a bit, then throw it in with the laundry. No dryer, so everything was hung out to dry and smelled delicious.

All desserts were made from scratch and we ate deer, ducks, and other hunting kill. We always had good meat as my dad had helped out a local butcher in his time of need, so we got our meat at cost.

My school clothes were hand made; our table cloths and bed spreads were crochet by my mom;
our rugs were braided by her as well. She'd buy clothing at second's stores or at the church bazaars, wash t5hem, cut them up and sewed tubes that could be braided and sewn together.

On the really, really frugal note...one time I had a date and gotten dates for my future husband's room mates. We had a big dinner for all of us before going out. Mom had put her pies out in the back porch which served as a cold pantry. When she went to get the pies, she discovered that the cat had liked the whipped cream off the top of one of them. No daunted, she coated the pie again, served it, and told me about a year later what she'd done. Nobody got sick or died so I guess we were able to handle the cat germs quite well.
~~~
Dang it!

Reminds of the story where the turkey was dropped on the floor, and the Sensible lady, said, "Darn. Never mind, I will just get the other turkey." Or words to that effect.

I loved it.


The Old Rat

Hal
If you truly understood self-reliance, you wouldn't be making fun of it. You're a fraud.

I've been there too
All of you that lived through the depression , as I did, being born in 1935 know what being poor is about. I guess that is why I have no patience for the whining babies in this and every other site libs appear on.
My dad worked WPA and we weren't paid in money, just commodities, flour, rice, beans etc, anything to fill our bellies. We prayed and said the allegence in school and loved our Country. We would have been ashamed to go on welfare, if there had been such a thing.
Again, pride kept us off the "dole" ,as they called it then. neighbors and churches helped each other.
I look at the sissies brought up today and feel ashamed for them. I also look at the first time voters who were hood winked into voting for a Socialist. Who really know nothing about him. I watched the utube where new voters were asked why they voted for the big O and their uneducation, as far as what he stood for.
God help us all

Well Mario
Actually, I am not "full of myself" but you sure are. I asked you two questions and you answered one of them correctly.

The other one you refused to answer and tried to insult me instead.
"Your(my addition-the correct word you want here is You're, short for you are) on your own for that one, Draw upon your elite private school education."

The "Elite private schools" I went to were King Elementary School, Central Davis Junior Hgh, and Layton High School Davis, all part of the Davis (County) School District. They're(they are) more widely known as PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Hardly elite in any way.

But, at least you know, even if you had to look it up, that overriding a presidential veto is no easy thing to accomplish.

But as I figured, just like every other lib on here who refuses to, or can't, back up their accusations with facts, you took the cowards way out and refused to prove your case.

I'm just so shocked. NOT!!

Right on, sister.
We are thankful for self reliance also.

Typo and correction
What I wrote:
The "Elite private schools" I went to were King Elementary School, Central Davis Junior Hgh, and Layton High School Davis, all part of the Davis (County) School District. They're(they are) more widely known as PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Hardly elite in any way.

Should have been:
The "Elite private schools" I went to were King Elementary School, Central Davis Junior Hgh, and Layton High School, all part of the Davis (County) School District. They're(they are) more widely known as PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Hardly elite in any way.

There's no "Davis" in the name of Layton High School. Sorry about the error.

Rat
Just a few years ago, I went from suburban yuppy to self-reliant. On our suburban half acre, we have chickens, rabbits, a garden and greenhouse. I sew (an indispensible skill) cook, make soap and jewelry and hold down a full-time job. Soon, we'll have goats.

It's a fulfilling lifestyle and we feel much more secure in our abilities to weather any economic storm.

LobaAzul: Sounds wonderful! :-)

I suspect that a lot of people are beginning to think about doing exactly the same thing... I know I am.


Mario
You won't think it's so ridiculous when you have to beg from us. But you'll look ridiculous with a backside full of buckshot.

Hard to get on welfare.
Seems to me it is not easy at all to get on welfare in this country. Single people and people without children are virtually never on welfare.

Mario
Your rabid posts don't deserve an answer.

I do need, however, to comment about your level of anger. Don't know how old you are but you're going to rupture an aneurysm with that level of adrenaline.

Your jeopardizing your own health trying to make people angry who really don't care what you're saying because you are out of control.

Highlander Juan sent me these.


http://www.openmyeyeslord.net/ALookBackInHistory.htm

Highlander Juan sent me these.
Great photos


http://www.openmyeyeslord.net/ALookBackInHistory.htm

Thanks Juan!

I want to see the research
I want to see the research, Hal, that proves rural, white males are the most frequent recipients of welfare. I do not believe it for a minute, but IF it is true, I am for ending all welfare right this minute.

What intervention and care are you talking about, Hal? I want research-based, proven-to-succeed programs. I work in a school, Hal. I see, all too often, what our social programs have wrought. When I worked at a school that served students with emotional disorders, I invited my Senators (Obama is one) and Representative to come and see what "helping" the poor does (sadly, poverty is one of the most frequent common denominators for students with ED). My letters were polite and sincere, but guess what, Hal--only the Republican Representative from my district responded. He was the only one that seemed to understand that throwing money at the problem and salving our conscience has been an unmitigated disaster.

I do thank you for your reasoned responses. I know I disagree with you on VERY little, but, at least, you do not become a rabid hater like some liberals who come here (I won't mention any names, but it rhymes with barrio).

oooops
In my last post, I meant that I agree with Hal on very little. Sorry about that, but I am sure Hal understood what I meant--he is NOT a dumb man.

I would also like to clarify one other point....ED in educational lexicon means Emotional Disturbance...not the ED that Bob Dole talks about in commercials......

Ratsy...

That was quite good, too. So far I haven't dropped the turkey but I'll remember your joke if I ever do. It would seem really cool coming from an old lady like me.

Great minds, Judith
I did not read your post to Mario until after I had written my own to Hal. We both used the word rabid to describe him...hmmm.

I did enjoy the posts about your mother, and they are so reminiscent of my own mom! I learned so much from her. Today, I am a single mother with five children (one grown and married). The four living with me know the value of hard work and responsible choices. I am solidly devoted to seeing that they become excellent citizens who contribute positively to society, and nothing will get in the way of that goal.

Another great column, Michelle!
And thanks for making me laugh at the real "turkeys" who are just plain silly. Hope Jen and her family will continue to be strong and successful at their little farm. God Bless them!!

Dottie

You know Dottie, it's quite an undertaking especially to raise them on your own. But if you turn out adults that are hard working and honest, in my world anyway, that is what spells a successful and rewarding life. It is your gift to the future.

God bless...Judy

Dottie
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 6:42 PM EST Subject: I want to see the research
...."

LOL please look it up. I do not provide refs here simply because sadly it becomes an endless task and futile effort to defend data versus the original question. I initially thought the whites collection was simply a rip off but with the limited employment availability in rural areas and the demand for very hard labor combined with poor lifestyle choices the welfare could well be justified. I simply do not know. But I do know I have helped people 10 years younger than me who looked almost that older

"...What intervention and care are you talking about, Hal? I want research-based, proven-to-succeed programs..."

I agree entirely and I suspect so does Obama. The guy is a pragmatist from the gitgo. I do not know and I am far from an expert but in the military we saw many and they were transformed through education and opportunity.

"I work in a school, Hal...with ED)..."

I wager the parents suffer ED also? That is what I have seen as a common denominator

"...My letters were polite and sincere, but guess what, Hal--only the Republican Representative from my district responded. He was the only one that seemed to understand that throwing money at the problem and salving our conscience has been an unmitigated disaster."

See you do not understand the system as it exists. Senators will seldom interfer in a congressional district unless invited. I have run into this over and over. The best approach is to invite all representatives in the area and then the senators that seems to work better. It is protocol not lack of attention. What did your congress critter get done?

"...I do thank you for your reasoned responses..."

And I thank you the same.

So what is to be done
Do we take them from their parents, Hal? That seems like the only real solution. That might be expensive in the beginning, but it might break the cycle if done properly. I am tired of parents who use their children as battering rams to get something they have not earned.

My daughter and son-in-law had the most wonderful plans. They were going to make sure they were completely established and doing well financially before a baby entered the family. Well, as so often happens, things did not go as planned. My darling, left-of-center daughter (the one who claims to be pro-choice) discovered she was pregnant when her husband was finishing up his education for his Masters Degree. This was not in their plans, and it would mean they were not established.....she still has to finish her own education which was put on hold while they went away for his education. What would she do? Well, of course, she had the baby.

His parents and I have committed ourselves to helping whenever they need it. She is staying home while he works. She clips coupons, lives frugally, and really seems to enjoy every minute of it. My grandson is a light in my life, and I could not be more proud of my daughter and her husband.

hal - 11:43
"the airwaves are mine too"
did you pay for the license fee for the radio station?
and on that bit of logic, the lamestream media
tv stations should fall under the same rule!

Taken for granted....
Michelle,

Thank you for writing an article about Dottie and her family. They are taken for granted in today's culture. They need to be uplifted and held out as examples for those that need encouragement and direction. Recently, I heard an Iraq veteran say that the poor in Iraq actually have nothing, while the so called needy in America have cell phones and wide screen TV's. Maybe a little too simple an analogy for most, but the observation is valid.

The first place to look for help is yourself, not the welfare line. Placing yourself in the care of the government is like signing up for slavery. Slavery to a system of entitlements and handouts that ultimately lead to bailouts as we see in the great mortgage scam. Senator Chris Dodd and Representative Barney Frank led the way in protecting a system that was rotten to the core. Now they are sitting in judgement on how to make it right by bailing out the entire system they said had no need to be fixed.

No wonder Dottie is upset at seeing these shameful happenings. True Americans are disgusted by our Congress (9% approval rating) and our overall leadership current or impending. Barack Obama said concerning the mortgage crisis that "there is enough blame to go around", while insisting we must find a way out of the problem. I suggest that we start by eliminating those that contributed to the problem, the ones who took the payoffs, the ones who took the "special loans as friends of Angelo", the ones who continued to cover up the problem. Until we clear out the rotten infection, the trust of the American people will not be in the government.

Trust yourself like Dottie and her family. Don't fall for the socialism of the NEW America. When you go for the government alternative, you are trusting the group that got us into this mess and continues to drag us deeper. Stand up and be counted America.


oh, Hal
Senators are not so high and mighty that they do not have to respond to the constituents...unless you are in a state like mine. Chicago rules the roost, and Democrats are going to win barring unforseen circumstances (which have happened). My Senators tend to be arrogant fops who only have to check to see that I am a registered Republican....

My representative, on the other hand, is a lovely man. My state senator and state representative are both Republican, and they would often come to school functions.

My US Representative consistently votes in a conservative way. He is lovely beyond words. He actually calls me to ask my opinion on certain issues. I was happy to see that he was re-elected without any problems during the last election. I come from a very conservative part of the state, thank goodness!

Dottie
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 8:04 PM EST So what is to be done
Do we take them from their parents, Hal? That seems like the only real solution. That might be expensive in the beginning, but it might break the cycle if done properly..."

It could come to that in some cases and/or longer time in programs etc. The cycle must be broken it is too expensive and wastes too many human resources

",,,My daughter and son-in-law had the most wonderful plans. They were going to make sure they were completely established and doing well financially before a baby entered the family.,,Well, of course, she had the baby...."

My wife and I had a similar experience. She and I quit our jobs so we could move to a University where I could finish my degree. Trauma everywhere but we did it all and the child is a treasure and a fine man

"...His parents and I have committed ourselves to helping whenever they need it. She is staying home while he works. She clips coupons, lives frugally, and really seems to enjoy every minute of it. ..."

Amazing what we can do I guess my point is mostpeople are at their best in a crisis

john
"Date: Nov 28, 2008 - 8:04 PM EST Subject: hal - 11:43
"the airwaves are mine too"
did you pay for the license fee for the radio station?
and on that bit of logic, the lamestream media
tv stations should fall under the same rule!"

They do. The government controls and licenses them. That means they are ours (the government's)

Dottie
One last thing, I do have a great relationship with my senator (Casey) and several congressman. They do the best they can with what they have and are good men. I think a major failure of the conservatives is that they did not realise that the perfect is the enemy of the good. They did nothing unless it was "perfect" that very seldom happens and they failed to act.

That said please have a great evening and it has been a pleasure

Hey Hal
I do hope you and your family have a wonderful Holiday Season! It is my belief that people do not have to agree with me on all things, but that we should be able to discuss what we think and believe without being condemned or without condemning. I appreciate your answers, and I thank you for respecting what I had to say!

Cheers!

Thanks to ...
We should all listen to these folks. Self Reliance is rapidly becoming out of fashioned, everybody demenading more and more of government. Pray you don't need to make so profound a change in lifestyle, but if you must, pray for the courage, as I will.

Protestant Work Ethic
Ever heard of it? It means if you don't work, you don't eat. And it's based on the Biblical principles that this country was founded on. Michelle Malkin was absolutely correct to refer to our Founding Fathers as God-fearing in this article.

It also means that those who can help the truly needy are required by the Lord to do so. NOT the government, the Church. If the churches would all do what they are supposed to do (my church does), and the government would keep it's nose OUT of the churches' business, and political-correctness would not be closing down Catholic and Christian adoption agencies and charities because they cannot compromise their principles and place children with "gay" couples, and the ACLU would be run out of the country..(I can dream)..there would be no need for welfare in this country!

Oh Mario.....
I do not always agree with Hal, and I have seen him be unkind to some. He has never been boorish toward me, so I actually listen to what he has to say. YOU, on the other hand, are rude. Your childish posts are not only unenlightening, but they are insulting and ridiculous. I assure you that most are scrolling right past your posts. The only ones bothering to respond to you are either a) trying to educate you or b) humoring themselves. You offer nothing but insults and condescending advice that goes nowhere.

Please become educated or go away.

so Michelle..
So, from this back to the basics article.. did Michelle cook and feed the animal to her family that whose fur she wore in the Conservative Women in Mink calendar? Waste not want not, right Michelle? Michelle..??

And I am not a PETA member.. just sayin'... walk the talk girl!
Bring on that Depression style livin'! nothin' says lovin' your family like slaving away 6 hours to make your own soap when said soap can be bought for less than 2$ at your local store.. oh wait.. guess you gotta live by a store do enjoy that blessing

No offense to the mythical "Jen" but seriously... making your own soap makes more dollar and time sense then just buying it? something about this article smells like bullshi** to me! Or maybe my soap isn't strong enough LOL

Agree or disagree?
Comment and vote on the quotes of Michelle Malkin and hundreds of others at http://www.ameritocracy.com

We Shouldn't Have To Turn To Basics
God Bless All Americans who do what they must do to survive in difficult times, but in this case, I don't think that the people should have to lose their homes and jobs because the people at the top filled their bank accounts and helped out their friends and ACORN and Raines and others involved in the greatest fraud on the American people and the world ever and they should be the ones moving on a farm and plowing the fields and growing vegetables to feed all the people they made homeless and jobless!

'big wish'
Wish I could be optimistic that Jen's story is common among Americans today - but I'm not optimistic that her family's spirit is common among us Americans nowadays.

I think Americans today will simply starve to death, watch the country sink into the abyss, before becoming honorable, humble, and self-reliant. I honestly just don't think Americans have it in us anymore . . .

Seriously wish I could believe otherwise . .

Obama not a NATURAL BORN US Citizen!
MORE INCRIMINATING EVIDENCE!!!

Here’s 2 responses back from South Carolina and Connecticut for request for records on Obama not being born on American soil:
1) South Carolina: RESPONSE FROM SECRETARY OF STATE SOUTH CAROLINA: PAY PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO PAGE 2 IN WHICH THE CHAIR OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF SOUTH CAROLINA [CAROL FOWLER] UNEQUIVOCALLY STATES THE CANDIDATES ALL QUALIFY FOR THE OFFICE IN WHICH THEY ARE RUNNING WHEN SHE'S NEVER SEEN OBAMA'S REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

2) Connecticut: RESPONSE FROM SECRETARY OF STATE OF Connecticut, BIG PROBLEMS WITH THIS FOR HER. He was supposed to be vetted BEFORE he ran for office - 3 months later her excuse is based on a PRESS CONFERENCE [not a court of law] where Hawaii officials never actually verified he was born in Hawaii - they only stated they have his original birth certificate "on file," and refused to answer if the original certificate of live birth was a Kenyan one or a Hawaiian one.

http://moniquemonicat.wordpress.com/secretary-of-state-resp onses-in-regards-to-request-for-obama-records/

America - you've been conned!

Demand Obama prove US born citizenship
It is our duty as American citizens to oversee our constitution, remember we do not have an emperor or a king, we have a democratic republic: for the people and BY THE PEOPLE: WE ARE THE PEOPLE!

Sign the petitions – DEMAND OBAMA PROVE HE’S A NATURAL U.S. BORN CITIZEN

http://moniquemonicat.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/%E2%80%A2-si gn-obama-petition/

Chief Justice Clarence Thomas will hear the case next week PLEASE TYPE HIM A LETTER IN THE COMMENTS SECTION AT THAT LINK AND I WILL FAX IT TO HIM FOR YOU. (same letters at the site)

ref to previous post
I should have written - ' watch the country dive into the abyss '

Giving Thanks
Well, that was refreshing. But keep in mind not all of us self-reliant folks are "god-fearing." I personally know multitudes of such god-fearers with their hands out all the time. For my part, I see no linkage between belief in the supernatural, or lack of it, and sense of entitlement. Logically, there should be, since I'm not counting on any free goodies, from real or imaginary sources.

Obama must stand up now or step down
With the great question about Obama's birth certificate and his lawful legitimacy to become President of the United States, I came across this article that sums up the discussion nicely, and according to the author, Obama does have to stand up or step down.

This may be the most complete and thorough legal discussion I have read so far on this topic. I can hardly wait to see how the Supreme Court looks at the issue.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin84.htm

Note some of the books that are available for sale from NewsWithViews.

Mario the Pious again
Subject: I beg your pardon
I've posted all sorts of "educated thought" on here only to be belittled. --Mario

Don't you just love the quote marks? THAT is hysterical! If you would leave your Mom's basement, you might too, Mighty Mario. You are a trip.

Dear Michelle
So once again they unlocked your rubber room at the asylum and your eager followers bought into your B.S. Are you suggesting we all sell our homes and move to the country to make our own soap and raise our own food?? How incredibly stupid is that? Let's empty out New York City and Chicago and Los Angeles and send everyone to Kansas. That will work.

And Michelle, I expect you will be leading the way, giving up your extravegant life style that has been paid for by the uneducated idiots that read your columns. Some how I feel that you wouldn't have a clue on how to grow a tomato, feed a chicken or raise a goat. I can just see you Michelle, our there slopping the hogs at 5:00 in the morning.

Go back to the looney bin with Anne Coulter and leave the rest of us alone.

reinventing
Michelle,
Thanks for that,I myself at times have had to start over,,,or reinvent as it were.In my opinion,this is the most pwerful blessing from the living God.The opportunity to accept and overcome adversity,here is where we become more than we are!

Sandra
Michelle is not suggesting anything of the sort. Instead of making hateful statements, please understand that she is merely pointing out that some people can respond to bad situations without turning to the government teat, and still be productive and happy. Maybe you shold listen to your pastor or Rabbi about hateful speech.

sandra
"And Michelle, I expect you will be leading the way, giving up your extravegant life style that has been paid for by the uneducated idiots that read your columns. "

Sandra, why the bitterness? And such sweeping generalities! We are all uneducated? My 10 year old would run rings around your spawn.

Remember-- You "won". why waste the hate here when you could put it to good use in the classroom where you belong? You are a treat too. Are you and Mario neighbors? Classmates? Student/teacher? Wow!

Absolutely right
Michelle: you and Jen are SO right on!! And I feel like crap now, having seen the light.

How I screwed up America by relying on my government:

1. My elementary and secondary education: paid for by tax dollars. Shoot. I'm such a mooch!

2.I should never have gotten that student aid from the federal government so I could go to college.

3. I should have grinned and bore those potholes instead of freeloading off the government to fix them.

4. All those libraries I borrowed books from: that's FREE books. That's communism. I'm so ashamed...

5. I feel now that I should have paid a steep admission price to the countless city, state and federal parks in which I lounged like an unemployed slacker. Better yet--we should raze them and put up more Six Flags, for-profit centers of relaxation.

6. If I wnated to cross that Brooklyn, Chesapeake, Bay or Bay Bridge--I should have just paid my way, like any good American.

7. My gas and electric--dammit--now I find that the infrastructure was built by massive fedral spending. I'm gonna go out and cut down a few dozen trees and burn 'em so I can get off that government teat.

8. My father should have just volunteered to go to Vietnam for no pay at all--and he should have footed the bill himself for the treatment of the injuries he suffered there. I'm the daughter of a moocher!!! ackkk!

9. My local cop, I find--he's on the govt. payroll. Damn budget-busting, lazy beaurocrat. He should just do it out of a sheer love of shooting black kids.

10. I'm so ashamed. I really should have a lab in my wood-fired home so that I can test all foods and drugs I buy from the Super-Duper-Mart.

Michelle--this is but a short list of all my faults. I promise I'll try to find some cheap land somewhere and I'll try to build my own house, produce my own energy, my own food, and I'll educate my kids with books I write myself, since libraries are just communism.

Thanks for showing me the light.

So where is Obama getting
taxable income from? I'm self sufficient but have nothing after deductions.

I'm managing on what I worked for before I was disabled and I've got my Mom's lessons learned from the Depression.

I see folk getting their free rides from city agencies. I overhear some chatting about their next stimulus check.

I've been told I'm stupid - I should 'use the system' - it's not illegal - everyone else gets money from the city.

Call me stupid. I'd consider myself a lowlife if I did.

Iam in California:
It seems you missed the point of the article. Roads, bridges, parks, and police protection are all things that taxes pay for and should. They have nothing whatsoever to do with handouts to people who are capable of caring for themselves but refuse to do so.

And your comment that the police officer should "just do it out of a sheer love of shooting black kids"? What the heck is that about? If that is actually happening in your community, you should be protesting in front of your mayor's office, not sitting at your computer.


Absolutely right..gov't handouts
You forgot about the bridges to nowhere, congresspersons making themselves rich on our backs. Go ahead, give it to them. Problem is, they are taking our money...not for helping us, but you are their biggest dupes. They need you.

Michelle: leave me alone
Sandra: It appears you are invading Michelle's space. Go back to Daily Kos and LEAVE Her alone

May - constituent influence
May, what confounds me about the problem you mentioned with congress pushing pork projects is that the reason they do so is to ensure votes next election.

It seems like most voters vote with their wallets, not on what's right for all.

How can that be fixed?

American Girl 1650
When you say you have "nothing left after deductions", are you talking about your paycheck, or your tax liability?

The tax laws are so complex that it's almost impossible for normal, busy citizens to figure them out. It's not "using the system" to take tax deductions that you are entitled to by law. Many people over-pay their taxes just because they don't know the laws.

Let's make soap
Thank you Michelle for sharing this story.

My mom went through the Great Depression and I know it's not as bad now.

But it has crossed my mind to do what this family did.
Simply because it would be hard work, but fun.
And to see if I could.

You see, some people really want to get intouch with their personal skills and strengths as individuals and live in the natural world.

This does not mean libraries are a bad idea or any other stupid comments seen here on this thread.
Sometimes it seems as though people argue just to hear themselves talk.

Also, soap making is really not so hard. It's a lot of fun and in fact hand made soap can be quite a luxury if you can put wonderful things like lavendar oil in it.

So I'm not surprised that many dollars can be saved by making one's own soap and by using old fashioned things like lemon juice and vinegar to clean with.

This is definately a trend, to go simple and green, and not owned by the "left". Actually, its maybe more of a "Republican"thing, think LINCOLN and his slate "notebooks" and his walking to school.
Self reliance DEFINATELY not a whiney inner city thing. And I know cuz I lived there.Inner city wants to imitate the greedy ones and take their place.
It's a country/small town thing.
We need to decentralize and stop immigration to have less people, more spread out. Things would work better.

Why bash Michelle?
To all Michelle bashers on this thread:

Don't you realize that you are serving no purpose ?
You cannot win people over to your opinion by insulting them.
Maybe you think Michelle is not perfect.
Nobody is.
But she is a really funny, smart person with a lot of good values. And her stories are always hard hitting because she lets the facts speak for themselves.
So why not just enjoy her ? And learn from a different perspective ?


ava
Michelle is not funny, she does not have a "lot of good values", she is another right wingnut hate monger. She writes vile columns for a living and makes her living off other rightwing nuts that read her drivel.

Hundreds of thousands of people have lost their jobs this year including 23,000 from CitiBank and many are in finacial trouble as a result. They probably all thought they were self-reliant until they got a pink slip. Many were secretaries, clerks, mail room personnel,etc who were just trying to raise their families. Now they may need a "hand-out" to survive.

Meanwhile Malkin makes her living writing a column and books. Do you really think she has any capacity to be self-reliant if she lost her job or nobody boought her books?

FYI - Joe the Plumber was on welfare at one point in his life so he must not be self-reliant either.

Julie MO
Hi Julie.

I'm speaking of my tax liability. I never imagined having $0 income after itemized deductions. It's interesting filling out my 1040 and following instructions on where to show negative numbers, where to enter zero, or where to leave a box blank.

To Sandra
You wrote:
"Hundreds of thousands of people have lost their jobs this year including 23,000 from CitiBank and many are in finacial trouble as a result. They probably all thought they were self-reliant until they got a pink slip. Many were secretaries, clerks, mail room personnel,etc who were just trying to raise their families."

"...Many were secretaries, clerks, mail room personnel,etc who were just trying to raise their families..." sounds as if all other people are not "just trying to raise their families..." - illogical, at least; stupid, at most: all normal people are trying to raise their families, therefore your exclamation sounds pathetic.

Secondly, who was and is responsible for those people being "secretaries, clerks, mail room personnel"?
Who prevented them from becoming engineers, doctors, writers?
On the other hand, why should we sympathize with people of those professions more than with people of other professions?

I lost my job at CitiBank due to a drastic reduction-in-force caused by 9/11. I don't remember you sympathizing with me and other 6,500 of my IT colleagues then...

With my age and being then a relatively new immigrant having no friends or distant relatives to support me and my family, it was extremely difficult for me to rise on my feet again.

And yet, self-reliance helped me to survive that tragedy.

Why are you Libs always whining?

First whining 'tender-hearted' DemSenators force banks to give you - "secretaries, clerks, mail room personnel, etc." - mortgages you can't ever repay; then you're whining that it caused a huge financial disaster, and then you are whining again that not all people are going to join you whining together...


Thanksgiving
Thanks for this thanksgiving weekend message.
Life is precious. The family Michelle wrote about savors every drop of it. It gives hope and light to my darkness. I am so happy to have found this story this rainy muggy weekend. I resolve again to do my best to think and act positively in this world where there is so much of the other. Tremendous good can come from tragedy. Getting back up after a fall, and making one more step forward is what it takes. This family is an example of people who have the right values in their hearts.

Charles

I Am Victim, Hear Me Roar -- Sandra
Only a liberal could look down their nose at self-reliance. You are living proof of what Michelle calls the Cult of You Owe Me.

There will always be "disasters" in everyone's life. I'm sure Jen and her family are much happier making their own soap and mucking out turkey pens than someone who's spent their life on the dole. Compare Jen to that pitiful woman from New Orleans, who waded out of the 9th Ward after Katrina, screaming that someone had better take care of her. That woman didn't even have a sense of self-preservation.

No one "hates" liberals, although liberals have more than earned the contempt and disgust of decent people who can take care of themselves and the "deserving poor."

True American Spirit!
This woman and her family have restored my faith in future of this great country.

Despite Obama's desire to push our country into a "gimme", dependant state, some are willing to escape his turn us into servants of the government - instead of the other way around.

Congratulations and Blessings to this family!

LIBERALS ATTACK IN AMERICA
THE KINGS OF OPPRESSION, THE BRIBERY USERS UNDUE INFLUENCE OF POLITICAL FAVORS, THEY HAVE UNDER THE COLOR OF LAW TO HIDE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY OF UNIONS AND CIVIL SERVANTS ALIKE.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.