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Wednesday, November 26, 2008
Michelle Malkin :: Townhall.com Columnist
Playing Games at Gitmo
by Michelle Malkin
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The human rights crowd is right: Life is hard for a Guantanamo Bay detainee. The deprivation is unspeakable. According to the facility's "cultural adviser," their brains have not been "stimulated" enough. So this Thanksgiving, America is drawing up plans to provide the 250 or so suspected jihadists at the "notoriously Spartan" detention camp with basic sustenance including, as reported by the Miami Herald, movie nights, art classes, English language lessons and "Game Boy-like" electronic devices.

Next up: Wii Fit, Guitar Hero, Sudoku, People magazine and macrame. Anything less would be uncivilized.

On a deadly serious note, the detainees aren't the only ones playing games at Gitmo. Some top legal advisers and supporters of Barack Obama, whose name detainees chanted on election night, are now rethinking the president-elect's absolutist campaign position on shutting the center down and flooding our mainland courts with every last enemy combatant designee. Yes, reality bites. And Democrats must now grapple with the very real possibility that an Obama administration could potentially release a Gitmo denizen who would turn around and commit mass terrorist acts on American soil or abroad.

Nothing clarifies the mind like a jihadi boomerang. Never before have an administration and its followers matured so quickly in office -- and they haven't even taken office yet.

While Obama paid lip service to the "Close the Gitmo gulag!" agenda on "60 Minutes" over the weekend, his kitchen cabinet is proceeding more pragmatically. Believe it or not, the Obama crowd is now contemplating a preventive detention law and an alternative judicial system for the most sensitive national security cases involving the most highly classified information -- information that has no place being aired in the civilian courts for public consumption.

Listen to relentless Bush critic David Cole, who told The New York Times last week: "You can't be a purist and say there's never any circumstance in which a democratic society can preventively detain someone." Added Ben Wittes of the Brookings Institution: "I'm afraid of people getting released in the name of human rights and doing terrible things."

Moreover, Obama transition team members have suggested to The Wall Street Journal that despite his campaign season CIA-bashing, "Obama may decide he wants to keep the road open in certain cases for the CIA to use techniques not approved by the military, but with much greater oversight."

Next thing you know, they'll start arguing that the world has been fooled by years of sob-story propaganda about the Gitmo detainees -- funded by Kuwaiti government-subsidized lawyers who cast them all as innocent potato farmers and schmucks dazed and confused on battlefields.

Next thing you know, they'll rediscover the facts that detainees have systematically lied and exaggerated stories about mistreatment at Gitmo, and that interrogators and military personnel have bent over backward to accommodate their personal and religious needs and wants.

Next thing you know, they'll start reminding us that dozens of former Gitmo detainees have been released and recaptured on the battlefield while committing acts of terrorism.

Funny, when President Bush and his homeland security team realized these very realities seven years ago, they were branded terrorists and hounded relentlessly by Congress, the media and the left. When Attorney General Michael Mukasey eloquently defended the administration's counterterrorism policies at the Federalist Society before he collapsed, he was heckled as a "tyrant." And when I wrote my second book expounding on this very thesis, I was labeled a racist and fascist whose ideas exploring the proper balance between security and civil liberties had no place in public discourse.

Now, at long last, some liberals have realized that the sacred goal of "regaining America's moral stature in the world," as Obama put it, may be less important than ensuring that al-Qaida killers don't strike on American ground again.

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About The Author

Michelle Malkin makes news and waves with a unique combination of investigative journalism and incisive commentary. She is the author of Unhinged: Exposing Liberals Gone Wild .

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©Creators Syndicate
Yeay Me, I got the first post

I've just got to say that you nailed it perfectly Michelle. The prisoners at Gitmo are too dangerous to be brought into the country and housed in a normal prison.
Especially more than one of them per location, unless you can keep them isolated from each other.

We also can't afford to have the methods that were used to locate and capture some of the more dangerous ones made public. It would severly compromise national security.

Even more, in most of the cases, the countries some of these people came from don't want them back.

Out of the closet
It's heartwarming to see Obama so moved for his spirtual kindred at Gitmo. So moved in fact taht he seeks to bring these jihadists here to house. I wonder how many bombs will go off, or how many American blacks recruited by Al-Queda will take up arms against fellow americans in order to force these terrorists release.

Reality Does Bite
What an amazing transformation from releasing all Gitmo detainees to keeping them behind bars. Yes, reality is harder to deal with than campaign rhetoric. The Obama Administration now has to be responsible if one of these darling detainees comes back to to bite them in the behind.

Liberals may not like to hear this, but George Bush is a lot more like Barack Obama than they would ever admit. Maybe 'compassionate conservatism' is a lot more like liberalism?

You're both right JD and Cyclist
Obama is now seeing first hand just how easy the job that he lied and conned his way into is going to be.

His rude awakening into the real world has already started. I can't wait to see when his brain dead supporters start turning on him enmass once he really starts breaking all the unrelistic promises he made to them to get elected.

Talk about buyers remorse? Oy Vay.

Charlie S
I agree with your premise about the rude awakening, but disagree that his supporters will turn on him. He can do no wrong. Excuses will always be provided by the MSM. They have so much invested in him that they just will not let him fail. Also, braindead people usually stay that way.

As is the case now, everything will be blamed on GW Bush. Bush is a big spending liberal, but one thing he does understand is national security and the need to defeat Al Qaida. However, I doubt he will ever get credit for his unfailing effort to keep these guys from attacking us again.

NO
Torture remains wrong. Gitmo will close. Bush's torture policy will be repudiated. The new President is merely working out the details.

Anyone who would sacrifice her principles out of fear, who would sell the national soul for security, is a coward.

After all those video games?....
The author implies that we treat the detainees with such a soft touch...She later writes that detainees who have been released have taken arms against the US...There's 2 choices here: 1. The video games were not all that good....or....2. Holding ANY human being without charge or cause may turn a person into a Jihadist....I'll take option 2. There's a few wack jobs that need to be dealt with. After that's done, Gitmo will close. It SHOULD close. Obama had the intell when he had the 60 minutes interview. He knows that he has to find a home for the terrorists on hold. The others will eventually be released. Good-by Gitmo.

Actually Cyclist
Some of his more left wing supporters have already started turning on him. But in a way you're right. Not too many of them will turn, and for the reasons you stated, but there will be enough who do that we'll retake at least one house of Congress in 2010.

You're partially right about President Bush not getting credit for what he did to protect us. By that I mean he WILL get credit, but it will be in the distant future.
Maybe not even in our lifetimes unless something REALLY BIG happens that proves him to have been right, to the point that even the most severly afflicted BDS case will be able to deny it.

Allen and TruthHurts,
Ok Allen, tell us how we have "tortured" the prisoners at GITMO, and be specific. List one thing that YOU KNOW our people have done to them that could even remotely be considered torture.

TruthHurts, You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on your stupid bleeding heart liberalass. You can't even correctly quote what Michelle said.

"Next thing you know, they'll start reminding us that dozens of former Gitmo detainees have been released and RECAPTURED ON THE BATTLEFIELD while committing acts of terrorism."

The released Gitmo prisoners did not "take up arms" against us once they'd been released. The RETOOK(once again) UP ARMS against us, and any innocent civilians who weren't living the way THEY thought those civilians should.

If Obama closes Gitmo and brings those people into this country it will be one of the biggest mistakes he makes. AND, I guarantee you it will make enough people turn on him that he'll be out of office within days of the first attack on this country that the released Gitmo detainees commit.
I'm thinking it'll be something along the lines of raising a mushroom cloud over NYC or DC.

Barack Obama...
...The other white candidate.

Hey, who knew?

Only Liberals would complain.

Only Liberals would complain about Bush keeping us safe from these terrorist.

Again these are not rational people. No other president in our history has let enemy combatants caught on the battlefeild be provided a lawyer, given a day in court and set free.

The only good thing about all this is when U.S. Troops return home and learn how Liberals endangered their lives and got their buddies killed, they will probably never vote for a Democrat.

I can't wait
I can't wait for January 20th. Everybody then gets to blame everything on President Obama. Obama has seen the facts at his CIA briefing and he has changed his tune. Liberal critisim of Gitmo is done through ignorance of the facts about Gitmo and what it stands for. All investigations of Gitmo have shown that there is no prisoner abuse. All detainees are threats to your life. They all admit it. They all want nothing more out of their lives than to kill you. If you doubt it, just look at what the Taliban and Al Quida have done. If they were all in Gitmo, they would not have thrown acid on school girls' faces. They would not have assassinated countless innocent people, including other muslims. Gitmo is good for all of us and good for the world. Believe it. It's true. The only alternative is to execute everyone there. To let any of them out is suicide.

Ranger29
Ranger29
Location: TX
Reply # 7
Date: Nov 26, 2008 - 1:12 AM EST Subject: Gitmo will close under the next
administration...the only thing stopping Gates from doing it was Cheney and he is about to be sent off to another undisclosed location!

It is amazing how this administration lies..."enhanced interrogation techniques" instead of just saying "torture".

Torture for Malkin would be "no make up"...LOL

Robert



I would rather see Michelle without makeup than you with or without makeup.

More Lib Stupidity
The irony in this issue is that our ignorant leftist loons posting here fail to understand a simple fact. Their stupidity and pacifist efforts to coddle these deranged murderers will actually do more harm than good for their beloved terrorists.

Once soldiers learn of even one terrorist being released through some bogus civilian judicial fiat, the decision to “capture” instead of shoot will be made so much easier.

gitmo is marshall law
even in a society that promotes civil liberties at times must declare marshall law which suspends such liberties for the security of the nation. Because politicians lack the cohones to declare such necessities they use legal maneuvering to create such places as gitmo. either way, the little darlings really deserve death since thats what they say they are often looking for anyways. they should have been shot in the field. gitmo is too nice for them. and the libtards are their greatest advocates.

rumpranger29,
What you need is some good ol water ballooning. This highly sophisticated torture is accomplished by filling a balloon with water and throwing it. My child and I enjoy this torture a lot in the summer.

Yes,by all means...
...send them home!It is at home that justice will be done.They will have a life expectancy of about 10 seconds when they get there.I can hear them now:"No thanks Omaha,thanks a lot!"

Let's Hope So
Let's just hope that common sense will overcome campaign rhetoric and Gitmo will be left as is to keep actual and now probable terrorists away from our country.

Mike Haltman
The Political and Financial Markets Commentator
http://politicsandfinance.blogspot.com

Isn't it interesting...
...what happens when you get the facts? When it was Bush and the Republicans running things, everything we did that caused any discomfort to some of the most evil men alive, the administration was branded as Fascist, terrorists, tyrants, destroying civil liberties, shredding the Constitution, etc.

Now that Barack Obama is going to be responsible for the security of our nation, and he's beginning to actually see the facts about the war on terror and the behavior of the terrorists we have captured - as opposed to the shallow, simple minded, "nuance" free opinions of anti-American Leftists - he's beginning to realize that Bush was doing the right thing after all.

Folks, we're not talking about decent, "misguided", "Misunderstood", innocent people here. We're talking about genuinely evil men whose sole and expressed purpose in life is to KILL innocent people for the purpose of spreading their message of hatred and tyrany. (I'm talking specifically about the terrorists, not the general Muslim population.) They make the KKK and the Black Panthers look like a church choir. These people HATE freedom and liberty. They support tyrany, oppression, religious bigotry, and truly medieval legal theories. They support everything that the Left purports to oppose: abortion bans, true theocracy, guns and violence, harsh, brutal punishments, misogyny, the banning of homosexuality, extreme intollerance, etc.

It's about time that someone on the Left understood the danger that the radical Islamists pose to us.

Welcome to the real world bambi
These "detainees" are nothing more than rabid dogs and I guess bambi got a shock when he was briefed and discovered that his rhetoric may have deluded enough fools to get him elected,but it won't work with animals such as these.

I suspect he will continue GWB's policies since they have worked for 7 years, he may be a typical naive liberal, but he sure doesn't want to go down in history as someone who saw another attack like 9/11 happen on his watch because of his great concern for people like these.
It is after all about him, isn't it?

All
Ranger29 would sell this country out in a heartbeat.

He is, as some know, a person of low morals and entegrity.

Turn the prisoners loose and send them to Capital hill......they can use them as Pages.

And Barney would like to look them over.

WHY NOT
just treat the Gitmo prisoners as though they are foriegn 'exchange' persons and have every liberal wanting to shut Gitmo down, take one home as a 'house' guest. Providing, of course, that the 'house' guest was handcuffed to the liberal, just in case the 'house' guest decided to try and 'blow' something up.
Wouldn't it be 'highly' educational for bill ayers, hancuffed to a terrorist, just like himself, to be able to take one of these foriegn 'exchange' persons to class for 'show and tell'?

Roberta
Roberta,
If you would not accept at least two of these 'detaine's" into your home over CHRISTMAS and new years then you have NO STANDING in this court. Oh, you say they have been illegally detained for all these years. Well bring 'em into your home and make them feel better.
If you wont put your money where your mouth is then y ou should just STFU.
Things shine in a different light when it is your responsibility. What do you mean not in your back yard. Where is your compassion now?

Charlie S
"Date: Nov 26, 2008 - 2:13 AM EST Allen and TruthHurts,
Ok Allen, tell us how we have "tortured" the prisoners at GITMO, and be specific. List one thing that YOU KNOW our people have done to them that could even remotely be considered torture...."

Waterboarding is the answer. The vast majority of the nations, including the US pre Bush, agree that waterboarding is torture. Bush personally admitted ordering the waterboarding of three individuals and the State Department admits more than 30 individuals died undergoing "enhanced interrogations". This whole episode is a blot on the nation. As far as the statement Bush the torturer kept us free from another attack - that is correct but he did it by appeasing Osama and al Q and letting them go free.

Gitmo
It seems that since Obama was brief on the top secret intel in Chicago he has "changed" his position on numerous issues. Obviously, the top secret information must have had a major effect. To know as Bush does and to speculateas the news media and others do - are very different regarding national security.

Thanksgiving
This is a special time of year for all of us including the GITMO detainees. Tomorrow we will all be thankful for all that we have in this nation. All the food you could imagine at your finger tips in the super markets. We have a military second to none to protect us. We have a medical emergency system that will come to your door in about five minutes if you need help. I could go on and on. Even the detainees should be thankful that they were captured by the United States. They get a wide variety of food choices.
They get water boarding which does not cause any damage physically instead of real torture which causes significant physical damage. Most of all they should be thankful that we did not execute them in the field for not being in a uniform.

Bill
Yep, Ol Obomination is doing the two-step now, trying to satisfy the lunatic fringe that elected him and the other drones who want America humiliated and humbled before the world.

http://noliberalspin.blogtownhall.com/2008/11/21/team_obama _stacks_the_bullsqueeze_higher_and_higher!.thtml

Tracking his various promises to various groups on my blog.

It's gonna be funny as h8ll when he can't satisfy the moonbats and they bust out the flashing knives...

The Media lied, and America died. Election 2008.

Semperfi/Par
Most of all they should be thankful that we did not execute them in the field for not being in a uniform.

And THAT is what SHOULD have happened. A field interrogation followed by a firing squad.

Hal Drunkahue
back and chattering like a macaque monkey about the poor gitmo detainees.

I'd eat a turkey sandwich with my left hand while waterboarding them with my right hand if it saved ONE AMERICAN LIFE.

That's where we differ you REMF.

BTW Hal, how long do you think you'd last in a cell with a peaceful GITMO detainee?

Are you aware that those still on Gitmo are either hardcore terrorists or scum that their home nations DO NOT WANT BACK?

That idea doesn't quite fit inside your pointy moonbat head does it?

GunnyG
Yeah, Obambi probably won't release all the prisoners from Gitmo. I'm sure he's well aware by now that if he releases those b@stards, and they return the favor by killing Americans, the headlines will read "Obama lied, people died."

He doesn't want that on his record.

It all goes to show jush how much his speeches were "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

GunnyG
Good morning to ya.

The Gitmo detainees can all be thankful that the worst we did as far as interrogation techniques was to waterboard them.

Those b@stards are eternally grateful that we did not use any of the more "humane" techniques that their own home countries use on their prisoners to get info.

Gitmo
Human rights activists are going too far with this one. These are men that would NOT hesitate to behead you - slowly so you suffer to the max - maybe even broadcasting it on the internet live, all for the sake of their false god Allah and glory of Islam! Yet people cry water boarding is cruel?! I say to all those who think WE are the cruel ones - why don't you go to France or another Muslim-friendly country and live amongst the hatred and anti-Semitism and try your "peace, love, let's all get along and accept each other" tactics there?

Michelle:
By correctly noting that they are "Suspected Jihadists" you inadvertently make my point:
They are only suspected of something at this point. Let's actually prove they're Jihadists by trying them.
Our legal system works- let's use it.

Hal Donahue
Hmm....I can't wait to see what your reaction will be when Obambi continues to ok the use of waterboarding as a technique.

You are conveniently ignoring the fact that the democrat controlled Congress was ok with waterboarding. Oh, there may have been a few that blew a bunch of hot air, but when push came to shove, they allowed it to continue. Congress had the power to do something about Gitmo, yet they did not.

Why is that, Hal?

By your own words, you condemn Bush for the use of waterboarding. Why have you not condemned all the democrats in Congress that condoned waterboarding also?

Could it be that you're nothing but a hypocrite?

Could it be that you're okay with waterboarding as well, as long as it's a democrat who is responsible?

LMAO at Hal's stupidity and hypocrisy

Gunny
I put that in there because I think people (liberal democrats) just don't realize how good they have it here. Remember John Lindh the POS traitor. He needs to be thankful he only got prison and not execution. He will probably be eating turkey tomorrow too.

Curtal Friar
Obomination is a stuttering idiot without his teleprompter, incapable of piecing together a coherent thought without Axlerod's help.

Truly he's a puppet.

Hal Drunkahue
When you have a moment from your raging BDS, try reading the Geneva Convention and what it says about non-uniformed combatants.

Sumamrily executed is the term I believe it uses.

I also noticed that you failed to reply to the fact that I'd use waterboarding to SAVE American lives while you would not.

No doubt you were the worst excuse for an officer in America's military service and the term REMF don't come close to covering your worthlessness. The AF should hang their heads in shame for ever commissioning you for anything higher than pooper-scooper.

Gunny
The lunatic democrats are learning now that a vote for Clinton was a vote for Clinton. A vote for Obama was a vote for Clinton. His whole cabinet is turning out to be Clinton retreads.

Beth
"Date: Nov 26, 2008 - 8:20 AM EST Gitmo
Human rights activists are going too far with this one....I say to all those who think WE are the cruel ones - why don't you go to France or another Muslim-friendly country and live amongst the hatred and anti-Semitism and try your "peace, love, let's all get along and accept each other" tactics there? "

I have even lived with Muslims. Look it is about the rue of law and justice. Torture is simply counterproductive and does not work. What Bush the torturer has din is provided a HUGE recruiting tool for them. Is your argument that we are not as bad as those guys ver there so we are better? That is relativism on a massive scale.

GunnyG and Hal Dumbohue
GunnyG: By your screen name I'm assuming you are a fellow gyrene. I agree with you that our troops should have eliminated the problem once they had those jihadists in hand. Question them and then use some "street justice", or in this case "field justice". Semper Fi, Gunny.

Hal: Your whiny-assed, limp-wristed concern for the "rights" of these animals makes me, and any true lover of freedom, nauseous. They care not one whit for your rights, or your life either. They would just as soon cut your head off or blow you up with one of their bombs as look at you. Are you so delusional as to believe that any of our troops that have been captured have been treated humanely? You know they haven't, but you don't care. You would prefer to have these monsters turned loose so that they could wreak their havoc rather than do what it takes to stop them, all to satisfy your twisted, liberal sensitivities. You, sir, are a disgrace to the title "American".

Curtal Friar
Hal Drunkahue has chronic BDS besides chronic hemmorroiditis of the brain and that prevents him from understanding your excellent post.

Congress VOTED for the war, Congress voted to CONTINUE the war, and Obomination was right in there with them, voting for it while speaking against it. Well, for his 140 days in the Senate anyway.

Obomination talked a good line, looked pretty doing it, and the libs bought a pig in a poke and now he's backpedaling, filling his cabinet with Clinton hacks!

The next four years will be a running joke.

Change I Can Believe In
I agree with the earlier poster that it looks like Obama has shifted his position (which by the way helped get him the presidency) on security issues - mainly Gitmo AFTER the briefing from President Bush.

I have told my kumbaya friends and family that they can hate Bush and the war all they want, but what in this world makes them think that they really know what is going on in the war on terror???

GunnyG©
Location: VA
Reply # 39
Date: Nov 26, 2008 - 8:40 AM EST Subject: Hal ...I also noticed that you failed to reply to the fact that I'd use waterboarding to SAVE American lives while you would not...."

LMAO you, my little middle manager, are a fool. I suspect you would also talk all day about it too LOL You you are a great enemy recruiting tool, absolutely a complete friend of our enemies


Hal Drunkahue
What Bush the torturer has din is provided a HUGE recruiting tool for them

Really moron? Is THAT why al-qaeda in iraq is virtually a non-entity? Is that why what was left fled to Syria or Iran?

Is that why Iraq is a bustling and growing democracy?

You're so ignorant that it's no longer funny. YOU are what is WRONG with America today. A bloviating pusbag without a clue of what you're yammering about. The trouuble is, is that the other dumbed down sheep listen to morons like you.

I'd give everything I have to see you go through SERE school. You'd wet your pants on day one loser.

Publius4254
Semper Fi brother.

Be advised that Hal Drunkahue is what we used to call a sterno bum and a serious leftist who loves al-qaeda. He's likes bashing America and the US Military while claiming he is a retired LtCol in the AF.

We call him LtCol Chickensh*t because you KNOW if he was one, he was a REMF extraordinaire! haha

D'UHHHH
The volume of the D'UHHH is overwhelming.

Publius4254
One, great handle BTW.

Two, welcome to the fight.

Three, click on my handle to see the best D*MN blog on TH. I slice and dice libscum with my ever-sharp Ginzu! haha

GunnyG
Forget SERE school, Hal wouldn't make it through the first hour of boot camp before he would be crying for his mama.

You can only hope
That one of the Gitmo detainees gets himself a fine Harvard educated lawyer, gets off scott free, escapes to a sancturary city presided over by a bleeding heart mayor and then attacks. One can further dream at least one of his victims is one or another of the goddamned stupid bleeding hearts who have come here for the past few years whining about "torture" and weeping about "human rights" and bemoaning our "cruelty" while demanding the "impreachment" of Bush.

Hope the knife is as rusty as that used on Nick Berg and the carver as inexpert.

Dear Michelle
Let me be the first to say:

YOU LOOK GREAT IN THAT FUR COAT!

(check my blog for the pics and link.)

my 2 cents
Wait until one of the 'detainees' who will be released commits an act of sabotage or mass murder or both on Americana on American soil - and it will happen - and then let's talk about this.

b o is gonna do what he said he was gonna do

Publius4254
I wonder if Hal Drunkahue gets tingly feelings up his legs for Obomination like Chrissy Matthews does?

BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!

Hal Donahue
"You you are a great enemy recruiting tool, absolutely a complete friend of our enemies"

So, you are saying that GunnyG's desire to kill those terrorists that would seek to do harm to Americans is a "great enemy recruiting tool"??

Dang...those islamofascists are stupid!!! Just for that, they should be removed from the gene pool.

Hal
Do you want those "friendly boys" living next door to you?

You are one sick dude.
Sad, but true

Three ounces of lead into each would certainly solve the Gitmo problem.
PS: same thing in our "prisons".

GunnyG
Oh, I've had my run-ins with Hal before. I finally gave up trying to talk sense to him. It occurred to me that it was like trying to teach English to a pig: it wasted your time and annoyed the pig.

Semper Fi.

Terry
I agree. When they hit us again, let's hope it's a sanctuary city. One, it'll shut the stupid libvermin up, and two, rid us of a few illegals.

Rude Awakening
The feel good, over the rainbow crowd are going to discover what the right thinking already knew, the end justifies the lie when the Dems are running for office.

Those who voted for Obama are going to be very disillusioned and disgruntled by the incoming administration. The question is whether they will resort to the same personally and politically vindictive behavior they launched against President Bush, when they wake up January 29th and their world hasn't changed.

Meanwhile, the equivalent of a third Clinton term is going to create domestic and foreign problems that may be of even longer duration than those created by the ineffectual Carter administration.

Yeah the truth hurts
For Truthhurts:
Before you use that moniker anymore you should learn that in fact the truth DOES hurt. For example, you claim that bringing these scumbag killers to Gitmo is what turned them into jihadists. Since they were captured in the act of attacking our soldiers and/or killing innocent civilians, I can only conclude that you have chosen to believe the terrorists and not our military. Typical lib. And secondly, upon release they haven't "taken up arms" they have continued their jihad. You should read the Koran where it says that it is God's will (Allah) that Muslims "should beleager the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) at every turn and kill them". That is their religion and their mission. To think that they are willing to coexist is a liberal fantasy. According to the Koran, the ONLY way to get to their heaven is to commit an act of jihad. You should learn the truth before you spout off. As for releasing them, and closing GITMO, and giving them a trial in civilian court, the military should kill them on the battlefield. No prisoners, no GITMO, no problem. Of course, that means no intelligence, and we fly blind until they hit us again. As for waterboarding, Pelosi, Reid, and the Intelligence subcommittee were briefed before the waterboarding commenced. They all said to proceed. Once it was made public, they all disavowed it. HYPOCRIT, thy name is Democrat.

GunnyG, Curtal Friar, et al.
Good morning!

Back from a long hiatus, I know.... Great pics at your blog, GunnyG!! Guess what Hubby is getting for Christmas??? ;)

heh heh heh....

Publius4254
It's too bad we could not have confined libpig Lynne Stewart and Sheik Yer-Bouti in the same jail cell together!

Wait, that would be cruel and unusual punishment because Muslims can't touch pigs.

Sorry.

Allen
Allen said:

Torture remains wrong. Gitmo will close. Bush's torture policy will be repudiated. The new President is merely working out the details.

MH:

You are positive proof that brainwashing works.
The new president is covering up lies he used to sell his faulty product. Lies...hmm, the soul...hmmm.


Allen:

Anyone who would sacrifice her principles out of fear, who would sell the national soul for security, is a coward.

MH:

National soul, let me think about killing the unborn, and sodomy? Throwing money away, ie shady mortgage practices, and letting the hard working Americans with integrity pick up the pieces? Forcing banks to accept anyone who applied for a loan and killing the economy.

Getting rid of God altogether, yeah and we must protect insane suicidal maniacs with no regard for anything except vestal virgins.

Wait, just a second, let's go back to "get rid of God, altogether." Something is wrong here, Allen. The soul, its relationship to God, and your buddies who feed your brain this mess of thinking?

Oh, wait, perhaps Allen is just a plant and wants a kumbaya method of thinking about vile humans.

Kumbaya this, Allen. You are daft.

GunnyG
Probably, and a few tingles in other areas as well.

Better Yet
Load them all onto a C-141, deliver to Iraq from 15,000 ft. See if Allah will allow them to fly.

YLG
Welcome back to the fight. Soros has his paid trolls here in force, with their leader, Hal Drunkahue, in full chatter mode.

I wonder if Kaopectate would work on his diarrhea of the mouth?

rick
GOOD ONE!

What would be better, is walling off Bezerkely/SF and dumping them in there with the libfreaks!

Put it on PPV and make MILLIONS!

Now THAT would be a reality show worth watching.

Really dangerous
What, the Guantanamo detainees really are dangerous people? I find that hard to believe. I thought that the evil Bush administration only put those people there to abuse their civil rights. The left told us that they posed no danger to our national security. If there is one thing that I do know, you can always trust the left. They would never lie to further their own causes.

GunnyG
Afraid I must sign off for a while. I need to go earn some money so Obambi can take it all away to give to those whiny-assed pukes who voted for him who won't work. Ta ta.

gregdn
"Our legal system works- let's use it."

Who pays for it all or will we just tack that on to the 3 TRILLION dollar bailout/payoff bill passed by our 9% approved liberal Politboro, oops, Kongress?

Publius4254
Gotta go as well. The gators are hungry and we trapped a lib last night.

Cheaper running a gator farm this way! haha

HAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!
Obomination punks out the unions.

"Obama announced his top economic advisors and none of them have any real ties to the labor unions. Also, the unions are upset that Obama has yet to appoint a secretary of labor. They see this as a suggestion that whoever is appointed secretary of labor won't be a key player in the administration and economic policy."

Classic. Unions used like a three dollar wh0re on payday and dumped when their purpose was served. USEFUL IDOITS!

GunnyG
Kaopectate?? No, I don't think so. Anything short of Happy Hour wouldn't work.

Never ceases to amaze me how the liberals will condemn us for not giving a detainee his Koran, but conveniently forget how that detainee didn't observe the human rights of his victims.

Rick
That's a good idea. After some judge sets them free and demands that the military return them to their home country we should comply. We can return them to their country but the judge never said we had to land and let them out. Strap them to a seat pallet push them right out the back ramp. I would pay good money to see the looks on their faces as the pallet rolled off the ramp at 10,000 FT.

HAL Doofus
As much as I hate to admit it, you have alot to be thankful for this thanksgiving. Be thankful that two veterans (myself and my dad plus many others) don't come kick your behind off this planet. It's probably a good thing that my dad (ret AF AD E-9) isn't 25 years younger. I doubt he would hesitate to beat you to a pulp for the coward you are and a disgrace to the Air Force.

So Hal Doofass
you wet your pants the first day of SERE School/

Doh
Hal Drunkahue says torture does not work but after waterboarding Mohammed al-Khalid for 30 seconds he provided a lot of intelligence that allowed us to prevent other attacks. As for widespread torture, we waterboarded 3, THREE, jihadis. Yeah, that's quite a record of torture. Are you kidding me? Remember the house we found in Iraq that was a torture chamber? Remember the al-Quaeda ran so fast out of there that they left behind their torture manual and instruments? No, I thought not. And their instruments were not WATER. Doh.
As for Gregdn, our legal system works let's use it. Number one, these enemy combatants have not committed a crime, they have committed an act against our national security, so they do not belong in civilian court. Second, some of the evidence against them is classified, so like trying to prosecute a drug dealer on informant info, if the judge orders the State to release the name of the informant the State has to dismiss the case to protect its source. Same thing with intelligence: we protect our source. So a civilian trial would result in government requested dismissals. Third, our civilian courts are not designed to try these kind of cases. There is precedent for mililtary tribunals. I say, military tribunals work, let's use them.

Hal:
You burnishing your resume' for a job in the Obugout Administration by supergluing your lips to Backstabber Boy Murtha's butt?

The 30 deaths
Some liberal poster, I think it was Hal, said that our State Department has admitted that the US caused the deaths of 30 jihadis in detention. I could not find any reference to this. Please give us your source.

rick
I almost forgot. Throw some water balloons filled with pig blood at them on the way out. Then hold up my left hand giving them the OK hand signal.

YLG
Good morning to ya!

I notice good old Hal has refused to answer my questions.

Indubitably, it would expose him as the liar and hypocrite that he is.

LMAO at the proud stupidity of the Doofus

AynRandLives
LOL

The source Hal used was probably his own blog.

He frequently quotes his own op/eds as sources of info.


AynRandLives
The State department caused the death of thirty Jihad terrorists? That's good news.

Hal:
Looks like Obugout has changed his mind about raising taxes. Does that mean we still are not paying our fair share?

Fred's World
Why so cranky? Your guy won. Sit back and enjoy...

Jurisdiction
I'm still at a loss to understand how the fate of enemy combatants captured on the battlefield fall under US Dept. of Justice jurisdiction. It seems to me that terrorist acts committed on foreign soil, even if aimed at the US and it's allies and assets, are outside the jurisdiction of the US justice system unless said acts happen on a US Navy vessel or a US embassy, both of which are considered sovereign US territory. Even in the case of an embassy, treaties and agreements with the host nation (effecting extradition and extraterritoriality, for example)would apply. This liberal fantasy that the war is a matter for the Justice dept. appears to me to be a strictly partisan effort to curtail executive authority, therefore limiting President Bush's power. The resulting failures could be then laid at the feet of the existing administration and it's weakened policies, paving the way for the left to gain power.
The fact that the Dems are willing to tie the CinC's hands behind his back during a time of war in an effort to gain political power shows us where their loyalties lie, and it's not with "we the people".

Fred
Unlike libs who have NEVER been nice.

Fred
Reality of war sucks even back home. Prisoners of war were detained without trial until the end of the war. Japanese internment is another sad reality of WW2. The U.S. did not have the time to root out the infiltrators so they locked them all up. The Japanese did the same thing to Americans in Japan.
McCarthyism, what to say , Liberals have demonized him. You have to look at why he suspected communism in the U.S. . The U.S.S.R. had stolen the plans for nuclear bombs and hydrogen bombs from the U.S.

Curtal Friar From NC

Actually I think the worse we did was to play them Barry Manilow music for 2 or 3 days in a row.


Jihadist may rally to keep GITMO
So according to you libs, the imprisonment is totally unfair. How about Daniel Pearl, huh? Was it fair to him and his family? How about the Sept 11 victims? I dare you guys to look their families in the eyes and tell them exactly what you think. Of course it's easier to say when your own families are still in tact.
We're not doing an eye for an eye, but whatever necessary to protect this country. It seems that you guys have very short term memory of what happened on 09/11/01. I can't. Many people have died to defend this country, and you guys are planning to march the bad guys back into this country. What kool-aid have you been drinking? Compare to the caves where they come from, GITMO is a 5-star resort vacation. Food is provided, no need to run away from bomb though outdoor exercises is provided, entertainment/relaxation is provided, ocean front property, sunny 365 days, doctors/nurses on site and crazy loons like you guys lobbying for their rights with possibilities of being released early in the US soil (or escape while here) and killing more of their enemies. For them, it's a dream come true!! I wouldn't be surprise if they will rally to keep GITMO.

Obama's got it backwards.
Obama's plan is to have "sensitve case courts" to try Gitmo detainees. That sounds nice until you realize that that is a blatant violation of the Geneva Conventions. They're accused of being combatants. The whole point of banning such trials is to prevent any claim of a kangaroo court railroading the accused. So what happens after a fair trail and one of the prisoners is found guilty and sentenced to death? Will anyone believe the trial is fair? Gitmo is the humane solution.

boneheads
don't these people have real jobs!!

roy

No matter how the MSM
plays this and other things associated with the War on Terror, sooner or later the American public will begin to realize that it wasn't all President George W. Bush's fault. This is just the beginning. When will Pres. BHO bring the troops home? About around the same time Pres Bush would have. HAHAHAHAHABWHAHAHA. I didn't think I was going to enjoy the BHO Presidency so much.

Gitmo Detainees
Read the Geneva Conventions on Warfare. Article Three says what cannot be done (acts all of the enemy combatants have committed). Article Four defines what conditions must be met to be considered a POW.

Combatants without uniforms and a unified chain of command are not soldiers but saboteurs. They do not get a trial.

Guess we should have followed the Geneva Conventions to the letter and we wouldn't have this political football to kick around.

Semper says:
"Reality of war sucks even back home. Prisoners of war were detained without trial until the end of the war. Japanese internment is another sad reality of WW2. The U.S. did not have the time to root out the infiltrators so they locked them all up. The Japanese did the same thing to Americans in Japan."

The gitmo boys are not POWs - some were taken from homes in AMERICA - some were taken from homes in Europe - some were taken from "battlefields" in the middle east - but NONE have been proven to be ANYTHING other than what this administration has told us they are. If they're enemies, let's convict them and hang them - for all i care. But uncharged, untried and onconvicted men - after YEARS of imprisonment? That's UnAmerican...

WWII? Maybe - but these were AMERICAN citizens that we interred - the japanese did horrible horribel things in that war - should we follow THEIR model?

"McCarthyism, what to say , Liberals have demonized him. You have to look at why he suspected communism in the U.S. . The U.S.S.R. had stolen the plans for nuclear bombs and hydrogen bombs from the U.S"

Spies should be executed, communist or not. American commies have the RIGHT to be communists - as do American socialists - or any stripe of the political spectrum. McCarty was wrong in what he did...

Japanese Interment
Fred
Who was president when the Japanese were locked-up? That's right, liberal icon FDR.

Fred
You want to come out to Ft. Leavenworth and visit the graves of the German POW's that violated regs while kept here?

More than a dozen executed for crimes as POW's.

And if the US is so bad, why isn't there a cemetary at Gitmo for the EC's that assault our troops?

So far I'm impressed with Obama!
No one, had any idea who was going to show up at the White House.

Was it going to be geneal election move to the center Obama?

Was it going to be Democratic Primary leftist Obama?

Was it going to be radical Obama appointing William Ayers as Attorney General and Rev. Wright as Secretary of State!

From all appearances, it seems he has moved further RIGHT!

That's good for America! I don't care if someone is labeled, Democrat, liberal, Republican or conservative. I care simply that the policies instituted are GOOD for America.

Before I'm a party partisan, I'm an American.

Good Conservatives??
Fred - Having read all your postings, I must admit you have won me over. Your polite and articulte logic is full of love and joy. To hell with those nasty conservatives. Hope & Change...

Things I am Thankful For

Barack Obama will be our 44th president. John McCain will not.
Joe Biden will be our next vice president. Sarah Palin will not.
This will be George W. Bush's last Thanksgiving as president
Dick Cheney will leave Washington 100% disgraced
-
Howard Dean's vision
Those Democrats in Congress who fight for us
Purple states
Michelle Obama's class
Olbermann, Maddow, Stewart, Colbert

Senators-elect Mark Warner, Mark Begich, Jeanne Shaheen, Tom Udall, Kay Hagan, Jeff Merkley, Mark Udall and, hopefully, Al Franken and Jim Martin
Ted Stevens in leg irons
The new Democratic Congressmembers who aren’t blue dogs
The ongoing Republican implosion
That our next president will speak in complete sentences
NASA devices that turn urine into single malt scotch
-
That I'm not traveling for Thanksgiving

Righty blogs, an endless source of amusement (bless their hearts)
-
Evolution
Universal health care
Electric cars
Bullet trains
Public works projects
Stem cell research
The expectation that habeas corpus will be reinstated
"Yes We Can"
-
AIG and Citigroup (Just kidding)
Our soldiers over here and over there
The coming repeal of 'Don’t Ask, Don't Tell'
The possible repeal of Proposition 8
Not hearing "My friends" or "Maverick" anymore.
The wondrous healing powers of Unity 08
That magic moment at 6am when the rum crosses the blood-brain barrier

Have a safe and happy Turkey Day tomorrow.

Michael
Would like to agree that a move to the right is what we need from Obama. But the fact is they ran on specific issues. Our issues did not win. They should be held accountable. To be held accountable they have to do what they promised.

One of those things is to get out of Iraq. It is hard to believe that were George Patton told to move one hundred thousand troops it would take sixteen months. If it was wrong to have the troops in with Bush in office it is more wrong with Obama in office because it says the people have accepted the democrat arguement that it was wrong for us to be there in the first place.

John says:
"Who was president when the Japanese were locked-up? That's right, liberal icon FDR. "

That doesn't make it right...

GunnyG & others
Hallyboy quotes GunnyG and then ADMITS IT.....

"...I'd give everything I have to see you go through SERE school. You'd wet your pants on day one loser..."

Big grin I did LOL

SEE he ADMITS IT!!!! He DID WET HIS PANTS.
And then laughs out loud about it.

Gitmo terrorists
I object to the Gitmo terrorists being treated as well as they are. They do not deserve the Geneva Convention protections as they are terrorists and not soldiers. Ergo, we should treat them with a condign contempt. Our standards have devolved over the last few generations. Imagine the following scenario: About an hour after the Pearl Harbor attacks on 12-7-41 there is a 2nd "attack". The victims are from a nearby Hawaiian island. The perpetrators do not wear uniforms and do not have a country's flag on their planes. They strafe and bomb children at play, Churches, hospitals, and nursing homes. We would not commingle the terrorists with the Japanese flyers should we capture some of each. We would relegate the former to a much lesser status. There are millenia of tradition and legal precedence of protecting those that cannot protect themselves. Which is why most men recoil at the idea of hitting a woman. It is also why abortion is wrong-a fetus is the most defenseless of humans. We should make every effort to not apply the Geneva Convention protocol in any way shape or form. Instead of the Gitmo 20 it should be the Gitmo negative 20. They should get mre's just like our troops get-only smaller and less tasty. Just because our treatment of them has a deterrent effect does not mean it is "torture". We disallow felons the right to vote and this may very well deter some crimes. Treating terrorists with less regard does not make us xenophobic and it is not some trojan horse to bring back the jim crow era which is clearly the raison d' etre of the GOP or so the lamestream media would have you believe. We have sacrificed all sense of honor on the altar of political correctness. All as atonement for America's past racial sins. This will not make us safer or defeat an implacable foe.

hard Thought asks
"And if the US is so bad, why isn't there a cemetary at Gitmo for the EC's that assault our troops? "

Who says America is bad? But what makes America great is NOT her mistakes - all nations suffer those, but the ability to recognize those mistakes and correct them through legislation and the political process...

Fred
There was a time when liberals were generous with their own money.

A liberal is someone who is so open minded that their brains have fallen out.

Insults anyone?

We can all play that game.

Sarah:
"That magic moment at 6am when the rum crosses the blood-brain barrier"

I suggest it's probably Kool Aid.

But have a happy and blessed Christian Thanksgiving anyway!

Only a matter of time...
before "do gooders" get us hit again, harder than 9/11. In the midst of economic chaos caused by Liberal Progressives in Congress dancing to the tune of ACORN types. In the midst of an energy crisis caused by "heads in the sand" environmental nuts like Gore and his ilk who are more afraid of fractional climate fluctuations more than they are Jihadists who are willing to die to kill us.

We have people lamenting the treatment of our enemies, lamenting planet earth's demise, lamenting the treatment of chickens and other food animals while advocating for the right to kill unborn infants, hating people who see the value of moral standards for society as a whole, willing to punish productive, self reliant people for the "sin" of success, demanding government level the most level playing field in the history of the world.

There are two things you can always count on in life and they are death and taxes. These two sure fire bets have never been more imminently certain than they will be under the Obama administration.




The truth
"Now, at long last, some liberals have realized that the sacred goal of "regaining America's moral stature in the world," as Obama put it, may be less important than ensuring that al-Qaida killers don't strike on American ground again."

The reason the liberals are realizing this at long last, is because it was never about Gitmo or the constitution. (Can anybody argue with a straight face that the supporters of Roev. Wade give a lick for the constitution?) It was always about regaining power. Gitmo was simply a useful tool to that end.

Obama is far too smart to not realize the blowback that would occur if he released hundreds of terrorists to start blowing up Americans. Therefore, Michelle is right. The libs will recycle what we've known for years about these people as newly discovered reasons why they just can't be released. The extreme fringe will make a little noise, but the media and congress will fall in line with their marching orders.

Oh
you all are in good form today. It's funny H.Donahue is so against torture he sets himself up to be tortured every day by you guys.

Mary Hogan..you took the words right out of my
keyboard..love the way the word "torture" is bandied about by the ones who haven't a problem with the 35 years and 50 million tortured and executed babies that have been our National disgrace.

What was the song played by Santayana at the Alamo? It meant no quarter and that should be
our position because that's what our enemies practice. These peaceniks want to prove how much more humane they are than the rest of us barbarian's, makes them think they are so superior morally and intellectually when they are just stupid, cowards who'd rather see Americans dead than win. Bottom line: they hate AMERICA so much, they'd rather see us lose to our enemies than be victorious and free.

Deprivation?
If anyone believes that the 'detainees' are deprived at Gitmo, they should look at where they came from. They are far better off at Gitmo - except for their freedom. They are particularly better off than they would be if they were turned over to the Iraqi government and placed in prisons there. They are better off than our own criminals in the pens here now that the military is aware of what went on there originally.

One thing people seem to be missing about all this anyway. These 'detainees' are not necessarily criminals. They are prisoners-of-war. That means only that they were captured while fighting us and will return to fighting us if released. It does NOT mean they are necessarily guilty of crime.

BTW Fred
I agree that we should correct the mistakes that our nation has made.

We should end the War on Poverty, with hold funds from sanctuary cities, stop forced collectivization through taxation, back off from government controlled health care (think of your last visit to the DMV). Disband the Department of Education and the Department of Housing and Urban Development.

There are many more, such as allowing the usage of our own energy resources, building nuclear power plants (France gets 75% of their electricity from nuclear power), having welfare recepients justify their receipt of benefits to a jury of their peers on a six month basis. The social safety net should be much, much smaller.

But you get the idea. Self reliance, self help, responsibility for self.

As Ronald Reagan said, the best social program is a job. And there are many out there but a lot of people think they are too good for the jobs available.

EVERYONE!!!!
Flag Fred from NY on his post to Mary.
I flagged him.
Fred you are crude and ignorant.

facts
Obama should have known all the facts about the WOT and gitmo.The liberal leaders in the house and senate knew the truth,and still went on TV and lied about it.Bush will get all the blame for Obamas goof ups just as he did for Clintons.

What it means to be an American
It is unlawful and unamerican to imprison people just because you think they will commit a crime. We don't do that here. The government had more than sufficient time to try the GITMO detainees for any crimes that they committed. If they failed to do so, blame their incompetence or the lack of evidence and let the detainees go. That's how we do things here.

It is unlawful, unamerican and inherently evil to torture anyone, regardless of who they are, what they have done, or what they intend to do. We don't do that here.

It's easy to hate terrorist, even suspected terrorists. But hate is anathema to justice, and policies based on hate, rather than justice and morality, are wrong.

We recognize, as Americans, that every human being has a fundamental worth and right to humane treatment. When we fail to adhere to this, we degrade ourselves, our principles, and our nation. We can't lower ourselves to the vile actions or base beliefs of lesser people or ideologies. We cannot say "They are monsters, therefore they have waived the right to be treated as humans". To stand, our principles have to apply to everyone, from the righteous to the vile, from the most loved to the most despised.

We must be vigilant against acts of terror, and efficient in identifying and punishing conspiracies against our nation. But we must remain true to our ideals while we do it. And if that means there will be a few terrorist attacks that sneak through, so be it. They won't destroy our nation, which is strong and resilient. I believe in American principles of freedom and dignity enough to lay my life on the line for them as a civilian. If you don't, then you are a the worst kind of coward.

Fred:
Are you even aware what percentage of white Southerners actually owned slaves?

Let them be college professors
It's simple guys, all you have to do is give them green cards; they are more than qualified to be college professors at any university here in the 'States. In fact, I'm sure the universities would welcome them with open arms (I'm sure Bill Ayres would be happy to show them around).

Supposing...
that you could see a Gitmo terrorist as a child abductor and it's your child. Say that this prisoner admits to having taken the child but won't tell you where the child is. He does say that it is alive but running out of Oxygen.

Exactly what would you support in gaining the information in terms of interrogation? As a conservative, I would support water boarding and any other process that they used at Gitmo.

Now I want to see a liberal actually write that he or she would not support anything severely uncomfortable even though this is their child.

we do not want the gitmo dudes in usa
the liberals,and ayers weep for the axis of evil!stupid, stupid, stupid!

Thanks for the qoute
Nam 65-66;
Thanks for the quotation, "No thanks Omaha,thanks a lot!" at the end or your post. Brought back fond memories, it did. I wonder how many people, other than you and me, can identify the source.

Fred
Self reliance is what made this country great.

There was nothing needed prior to the FDR pyramid scheme and New Deal.

The plantations in the south were built with slave labor, but the manufactories were not.

The WOP is an abysmal failure as the percentage of poor remains the same. There are some that just won't be helped and it encourages the recepients to remain on the plantation, as it were.

According to your last statement, you are for a strong border. Everytime a conservative says that, we get called xenophobes and racists. Is that what we should call you?

No, business made this country great. Self reliance made this country great. Identifying a need and filling it at the best possible price made this country great. And every one of these activities provides jobs. Government does not create jobs, businesses do.

Unions helped stop the abuses of business, but are now sucking them dry. Look at the Big Three and TWA.

FRED
Deny as you will........
YOU ARE CRUDE AND IGNORANT.

Wishful thinking
To "joltinjoe," who wrote, "I can't wait for January 20th. Everybody then gets to blame everything on President Obama." can say only, "You wish." Be assured that all problems, no matter what they are, will be blamed on President Bush for as long as the incoming regime is in office, and the so-called "mainstream media" will support those claims.
A related thought, if I may be allowed to interject it. Many rears ago, in a coiuntry which I shall not name, but in which I spent a few years, there was an editor of a major newspaper and he was a constant and often virulent critic of the administration in general and the Prime Minister in particular. Eventually he went into politics himself, and was actually elected Prime Minister. He resigned the office in just under a year, and went back to being an outspoken critic. That, you see, he could do, but he could not handle the responsibilities of the office.

Supposing
So, no liberal takers on my scenario saying that they would forbid torture to a child abductor/killer?

Interesting when such a scenario becomes personal, isn't it?

FDR
Fred
That is my point. Liberal icon FDR was the president who put the Japanese into interment camps. If you study our nation's history, you will see that the liberals are the ones who have no regard for people's rights.

HT says:
"There was nothing needed prior to the FDR pyramid scheme and New Deal."

Read the Grapes of Wrath - and get back to me...

"The plantations in the south were built with slave labor, but the manufactories were not."

The manufactoring was mostly in the north - but don't deny the great wealth generated by slave labor.

The truth of Hurts and Allen
Is they somehow in their bleeding hearts believed Islam is a Religion of peace, when the truth is it’s a religion of pieces.

Low estimates are if only 10% of the world Muslim population is radical that is an Army of 10 million spread throughout the world.

Do either of you know how big the American military is?

Judith
Not surprising that you had notakers with your scenario. I have proposed similar scenarios in the past and DARED any to answer. All I got was silence and attempts to change the subject.
Libs know in their heart they would do the same as any of us if a loved one was in danger. But, they will not admit it to us here.

GMM says:
"Are you even aware what percentage of white Southerners actually owned slaves?"

And that was the ironic part about slavery - many of the slaves lived better than the poor whites who ended up dying so the rich plantation owners could maintain. They sold the war on one of freedom (for whites) from tyranny - but the poor southerners were hardly free...

judith
My own view, as a parent , is that I would in fact want the police to do "whatever it took" to get relevant information about my child or grandchild, yet my view as a disinterested citizen is that it is probably legitimate, in effect, to sacrifice the [life] of an innocent child rather than breach the no-torture rule.


judith
here is the moral religious argument


The human person is a creation of God. Every inch of the human body and every aspect of the human spirit come from God and bear witness to his handiwork. We are made in the image of God (Gen. 1:26-28). Human dignity (value, worth) comes as a permanent and ineradicable endowment of the Creator, to every person.

Recognition of the intrinsic dignity of the human being requires a corresponding restraint in our behavior toward all human beings. Christians, at least, should be trained to see in every person the imprint of God’s grandeur. This should create in us a sense of reverence or even sacredness. Here, we say—and we say it even of detainees in the war on terror—is a human being sacred in God’s sight, made in God’s image, someone for whom Christ died. No one is ever “subhuman” or “human debris,” as Rush Limbaugh has described some of our adversaries in Iraq. An inchoate sense of the proper reverence due to every human person makes its way even into “secular” and public codes, such as international legal documents. These texts may not be able to say why human beings should be treated with respect but they know that this is in fact a binding obligation. Christians can say why: because this “detainee,” even this “terrorist,” if he is one, is a child of God, made in God’s image.


GunnyG
Leave Hal alone! Don’t you mean conservatives know that he once sat on the chief of staff’s lap.

Sarc?

Fred
I've read "The Grapes of Wrath". It was fiction. I don't deny that there were problems, but if FDR wouldn't have meddled so disastrously in the economy, the Depression would have been over by 1934 or 1935 at the latest.

FDR prolonged the Depression. There are economic studies from liberal universities that prove it.

FDR did not get us out of the depression. World War II did.

A lot of the industry was in the North, granted. The South was mostly agricultural, granted. But less than 5% of the people in the South owned slaves. Was there racism in both North and South? Yes, and there still is.

The whole point is that self-reliance and responsibility take you much further than dependcy and hand outs, and THAT is what the WOP has created.

Back to Gitmo and the Geneva Conventions.

What's the point of his article?
Obama has said all along he will close Gitmo, which is not the same as releasing everyone at Gitmo. He has said that prisoners will be tried (potentially in a court martial or a new court created for that purpose) or released if deemed not a threat. Nothing in this article indicates any flip flop.
What's the deal with you frothing conservatives? When Obama does stuff you approve of, you complain that Obama is violating your own warped view of what you think liberals think. It this hatin' attitude that will guarantee your minority status while Obama continues to act responsibly.

uncle b
you will notice that as a Christian liberal, i have answered that question.

exactly what are your views?

are you religious?

have you consulted with your clergy on this matter?


in other words, what are your religious and moral beliefs on this?

i assume you support torture.

are there any techinques that you think are immoral or are you for any and all torture?

Judith
Your silly SAW-type scenario was directed at liberals, and I am conservative. But I will take the challenge.

But yes, I will stand on my principles. I would expect the authorities to do their best to find my child using fair and noncoercive investigative techniques. But if they asked me, I would say "Do not torture the child abductor/killer."

Do you know what that makes me? A man of principle, and a better person and a better American than you.

Please stop trying to murder my child to support your justification for torture!

hey sophie
nice rain last night huh.

how are you doing?

i haven't seen mod mark lately, have you?

you make a great point, as i said in my post, as a parent is say do what is necessary but as a Christian and human being i believe it is morally wrong.

Fred:
Your knowledge of history is worse than appalling. I would suggest that you read "Battle Cry of Freedom," or "None Died in Vain," or any good history of the Antebellum/Civil War History to find out about why Southerners fought with such ferocity.

fred
Slavery in the antebellum South was not a monolithic system; its nature varied widely across the region. At one extreme one white family in thirty owned slaves in Delaware; in contrast, half of all white families in South Carolina did so. Overall, 26 percent of Southern white families owned slaves.

to say that whites suffered more than slaves is a grave injustice.



During the high-profit phase, slaves were driven mercilessly to plant, cultivate, and harvest the crops for market. A failed crop meant the planter could lose his initial investment in land and slaves and possibly suffer bankruptcy. A successful crop could earn such high returns that the slaves were often worked beyond human endurance. Plantation masters argued callously that it was "cheaper to buy than to breed"--it was cheaper to work the slaves to death and then buy new ones than it was to allow them to live long enough and under sufficiently healthy conditions that they could bear children to increase their numbers. During this phase, on some of the sugar plantations in Louisiana and the Caribbean, the life span of a slave from initial purchase to death was only seven years.

come on judith
you made your brag that people were afraid to confront your scenario which has turned out to be false.

what do you have in response?

Christianlib
Every baby is precious in God's eyes as well, yet you don't seem to have a problem with Obama fully supporting infanticide.

Obama would rather kill a baby than restrict a woman's right to choose in any form.

Stop the hypocrisy.

Gitmo
The Gitmo detainees are prisoners of war. They deserve to be treated with the respect due any human being... nothing more.

christianlib:
THe percentage of whites who owned slaves in the South was 8-10%.

Christianlib
Further, God makes it clear throughout the Bible that killing in self-defense is acceptable.

It is also the function of the government to administer justice and protect its citizens, even if it means it must kill in order to protect or administer justice. That's in the Bible as well, christianlib.

Maybe you should read more of it, not just the touchy feely parts.

Maybe then you would realize that in Gods eyes, you are fully in support of a lying murderer, for that's what Obama is in God's eyes.

Hypocrite.

Fred Reply #64
A) if you equate what a man and a woman do as two men doing only that then you are an idiot. If a couple engages in oral sex nobody cares, unfortunately that is not where it ends (no pun intended). If nothing else homosexuality is an aberrant lifestyle. It is both biblically and biologically aberrant. When two men or two women get together nothing

B) Remember Bosnia? Serbia did not attack us. Serbia was a sovereign nation with a civil war (sound familiar?). I think the civilians in Sarajevo would consider themselves innocent too.
C) The idea that anyone deserves a home is stupid. Extending credit to people who can afford them was a good idea regardless of color, however extending credit to people you know can’t afford them is criminal on your part. These people you profess to help are now financially devastated. They will not get credit for a car, school, or even get a better job. I think you should pat yourself on the back for that abundance of caring for the poor you have. Low interest rates and unregulated industries are no excuse for this sub-prime NINJA lending (No income No job or assets). The only racists are people like you. You constantly hurt the same people you profess to care about, but never do the real work of getting them educated, employed, or financially stable to afford things and get real credit.

Fred the next time you want to blame us for the poor being poor look at yourself and your policies first.

Also, Christianlib
Maybe you would care to explain why the democrats fully supported GITMO.

You have shown you're ready to slam Bush for GITMO and all the supposed torture.

How about slamming all of the Democrat controlled Congress who has allowed everything at GITMO to continue? Where is your condemnation of them?

I guess it's okay if the liberals do it, but not if a republican does it, huh?

Hypocrite.

christianlib and allen:
Give me a break. I do like to have a cup of tea every once in a while.

I was not bragging, just inquiring to see if there are people out there who would react differently if their child was about to die. My next question to Allen is, of course, do you have children?

I guess that neither of you feels strongly about abortion then? Or is that, too an erroneous conclusion?

As for me, if some basta*d had my child, I would sanction anything that they have done at Gitmo and more. It would not bother me to see his nuts cut off a piece at a time and I would not flinch at watching either.

And yes, I believe in God and yes, I have respect for humanity. What I don't have is respect for human beings that have a conscience of a sewer rat.

Judith from Co
Amen.

judith
i apologize if i was to abrupt but you issued a challenge and seemed to disappear.

please read my moral and religious statement about torture carefully.

So true
"If you liberals keep gettin' your way - we're all gonna hear one big loud flush. The sound of the U.S. of A. goin' straight down the toilet. - Archie Bunker

gmm1
please document your statement.

most estimates put it at 25%.

OBOMINATIO VOTERS
SHAFTED!

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/buyers_remorse_on_th e_left.html

I called it after the election. They voted for this bonehead and he's already chucking them aside like the useful idiots they are.

How's that feel libs? PWNED by an EMPTY SUIT!

BWAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHHAAHAH!

christianlib
Are you aware that free blacks owned black slaves?

How's them blinders working for ya?

The war on Terror
I anwser Fred's points on reply 64 more fully on my blog Financial Markets Watchdogblog in NY.

This post is on the fight to keep terrorist where they belong. I am still waiting for an answer to my question a couple of months back when the SCOTUS stuck their nose, again, into areas they don't belong like Habeas Corpus (or to them whatever I want to do) to terror suspects picked up by the 101st Airborne not the FBI. If these people are allowed into our Federal Courts they will be free on 5th amendment grounds if nothing else. Can the SCOTUS encroach into Executive and Legislative arenas? The court has no jurisdiction in how the President conducts a war that is legal.

LIBERAL CONGRESS
approves 8 TRILLION dollar bailout.

Tax and spenders.

Christianlib
Document yors

Christianlib
Why don't you document your statement?

Everything I've ever read or heard, in books and in the classroom, put forth that less than 10% of the South owned a slave.

You claim 25%, let's see your sources.

Or is this just more hot air from you, like so much of what you post here?

christianlib
Born a slave in 1790, William Ellison