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Friday, August 15, 2008
Michelle Malkin :: Townhall.com Columnist
Cheating ChiComs, Crouching IOC
by Michelle Malkin
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I have an 8-year-old daughter. I know what 8-year-old hands and feet and hips and teeth look like. They look a lot like the hands and feet and hips and teeth of the purported "teenagers" on the gold medal-winning Chinese girls' gymnastics team.

The two pounds of frosty blue eye shadow and Bubblicious pink blush that the ChiComs piled on the cherubic faces of their gymnasts backfired. Rather than masking their youth, the pedo-friendly makeup made them look even younger, like 5-year-olds dressed up for a Beijing Halloween Gone Wild.

One of the Chinese team members has an unexplained missing tooth -- explicable if someone knocked it out, or if she's the only "16"-year-old on the planet still losing her Chiclet-sized baby teeth. Take your pick. The coaches refused to elaborate on the gap.

Apparently, the ChiComs hoped all that iridescent glitter glopped onto the wee foreheads of their athletes would blind spectators' eyes to the screamingly obvious. Lo and behold, the magic dust has worked on the ostriches that sit on the International Olympic Committee (IOC). They're in deeper denial about cheating than John Edwards.

Gymnasts are required to turn 16 this year to be eligible for competition. Official records, ChiCom state media reports and Internet data all undermine the eligibility claims of at least three of the girls. He Kexin, for example, was listed as 13 in November 2007 by a Chinese state news service. Jiang Yuyuan's birth date has magically evolved from one that makes her 15 in October to another that makes her 16 in November.

The sports world is in an uproar. But the IOC is covering its ears and singing "la, la, la, we can't hear you." Welcome to this week's live-action performance of "Cheating ChiComs, Crouching IOC."

The committee, along with the International Gymnastics Federation, accepted China's passports for the girls as ironclad proof of their ages. They insist on ignoring the long trail of whitewashed documents online. Zhang Hongliang, an official with China's gymnastics delegation, successfully stonewalled: "We already explained this very clearly. There's no need to discuss this thing again." Bowing, scraping, Olympic officials have complied.

According to Sports Illustrated, the IOC has also refused to investigate a separate admission by a former Chinese gymnast who reportedly has claimed to have competed as a 14-year-old at the 2000 Sydney Games.

These sports bodies, intent on papering over China's systemic flouting of the rules for the sake of global harmony, are vying with the United Nations for the title of Most Feckless International Agency. They've swallowed China's excuses that the pre-altered birth dates were simply record-keeping "errors."

There's no such thing as a bureaucratic error in an authoritarian regime.

China has a long, state-sponsored history of cheating by every means necessary and exploiting its female athletes, from the doped-up female runners of "Ma's Army" to the human growth hormone-fueled victories of the Chinese women swimmers over the last 15 years. The revelations about the opening ceremony's fireworks fakery and lip-sync switcheroo involving two more exploited Chinese girls simply underscore the regime's threat to whatever is left of the integrity of the Olympic Games.

The Olympic creed, articulated by Baron de Coubertin, asserts: "The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not to win but to take part, just as the most important thing in life is not the triumph but the struggle. The essential thing is not to have conquered but to have fought well."

With their head-in-the-sand response to the Chinese gymnast scandal, enabling international Olympic officials have driven the final nail into the credibility coffin of the games and turned the guiding principle of athletic competition on its head.

The Olympic Village has become China's triumphant Potemkin village.

Swifter, Higher, Stronger? Try Smaller, Liar, Younger.

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About The Author

Michelle Malkin makes news and waves with a unique combination of investigative journalism and incisive commentary. She is the author of Unhinged: Exposing Liberals Gone Wild .

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©Creators Syndicate
Return to the 70's?
With Russia invading Georgia and claiming Dick Cheney is behind it all and now cheating by other communist countries during the Olympics makes me wonder if I'm reliving the 70's when this sort of thing was the norm.

Who can forget the East German women swimmers during this period? They all could have played linebacker in the NFL. And I guess we have a return to the good 'ol TASS News Agency and Pravda where anti-American propoganda was a daily occurrence. The funny thing is that it is hard to see the difference between them and the New York Times & Washington Post.

Return to the 1970s???
Sure seems like it, from the way everything is headed.

Well we always did say "SAC will be back." May it be soon, it kept the peace then, can it keep the peace now?

Of course Robert...
Clinton never had anything to do with the ChiComs, right? Cetainly no state secrets went over there? Nor any large amounts of campaign contributions coming this way to Clinton? Or to the missus?

What any of that had to do with MM's article I haven't a clue but of course you some how can relate any article to Bush. Best of luck actually connecting the two.

A spectator
Anyone wonder why I could not care less about the Olympics and haven't for decades?

I'll stick with MLB and the NFL for my mindless entertainment.

Not to put too fine a line on it...
But my boys are turning 16 this week and had to have baby teeth pulled in order to get their braces. Some kids do not lose all their teeth by 12 and 13. That said, the ChiCom deception is obvious and glaring.

What a surprise
The illegal poster was online here again waiting with baited breath to make a fool of himself again, and one of the columnists he most likes to act like a total idiot for has a second column of the week.

So of course Robert the Village Idiot has to make TWO stupid comments. But I'm sure there'll be at least one or two more before his posts are deleted in the morning.

Olympics fan
In the past, I have been an avid Olympics fan.

This year - not a chance. Why? Internet blogging crackdown; Tibetan crackdown; massive Military buildup; threats to Taiwan; Fulong Gong crackdown; (political) executions used for treating people like cattle to be slaughtered for commercial harvest of their organs; flooding our markets with substandard crap - including drug paraphernalia; actively stealing our technology to be used in weapons; no respect for copyright/patent laws; arming our enemies; etc.

Lately, with the Olympics (ala Berlin 1936), with the Russian invasion of Georgia, and China threatening territorial expansion (Taiwan/Japan) it's looking like we're determined to relive the 30's all over again without having learned a single lesson from the period.

Feb.29
They should simply tell the truth...they were all born on the 29th, they didn't have to lie?...right?LoL

Ranger29
Robert, did Bush attempt to sell part of California to China? I don't think so. However, Bush has nothing to do with the Olympics, so let's move on. The IOC, in my opinion, has sunk about as low as the UN. Did anyone expect anything different from the Communists? Why are the Olympics being held there anyway? What a wretched place to be!

Child slavery...
We're watching chinese gymnasts, who were taken from their parents years ago, (when the Chinese government decided they were going to get the games, and the medals, at any cost). These children were sent to sport gulags to be bullied, humiliated, tortured, brainwashed and denied a childhood, and the disgusting IOC will applaud this child slavery as 'The Best Ever Games'.
Makes one want to vomit!

And BRAVO for your article. Can we impeach the IOC?

Please stop responding to Robert the
deranged idiot. All it does is fill the column with scroll-by spaces. It should be obvious that a comment blaming Bush for Chinese cheating is insane BDS not worthy of comment.

As for "cheating" in the olympics LOL, that has become the norm. I gave up on the olympics long ago and have nothing to do with them now.

Anything that requires a "judge" to issue a numerical grade that determines the outcome is not a sport and should not be called one.

What they should do is elliminate all "judged competions" and remove all rules for doping, age, and other. The there would be no cheating.

well I guess
our army went as part of an international coalition to enforce UN resolutions, but I'm sure you knew that.

Fundamentally flawed
The Olympics have long been a revolting spectacle run by plutocrats, manipulated by dictators, populated by exploiters and exploited. This is so largely because Baron de Coubertin and his contemporaries started on the wrong foot.

Organizing the Olympics by country has led to predictable problems. For example:

1. Governments have strong incentives to win the games and to win at the games. Using their unique resources, they have opened new vistas of corruption and coercion in both events.

2. Governments in general and dictatorships especially have too much say in who represents them. In some countries, anyone who shows a glimmer of talent is compelled to become a state myrmidon. In many countries, those out of favor with the current regime don't compete.

3. The IOC can define countries as it sees fit. Palestine is in; Kurdistan is out. In 1960, the IOC reintegrated East and West Germany and made their athletes march to Beethoven's _Ode to Joy_ under a hybrid flag. In 1992, nostalgic for Soviet domination, the IOC forced eleven newly liberated countries to compete alongside their Russian oppressors in the Unified [_sic_] Team. In 1979 the IOC formally replaced the Republic of China with "Chinese Taipei."

4. The IOC has too much power to reward and punish the countries that it does recognize. China, mass murderer extraordinaire, is the host this year; Iraq, a fledgling democracy, was barred until the last minute. (Note: the International Rowing Federation let the Iraqi scull team in the back door by giving them slots declined by _North Korea_.)

Only reorganizing the Olympics at the molecular level -- or replacing them outright -- will end these abuses. Cheating will persist, alas. But perhaps less of it will be state sponsored.


mrbmrb
I watched an interesting episode of Monk last week and then Psych after that really made me laugh.

And that has as much relevance to this article as your post usually does.

I have pretty much given up on watching the Olympics, any award shows on TV, the Nobel Prize, Dancing with the Stars and American Idol. Okay, I never watched the last two and I never waited to see who won the Nobel. But at least I used to respect the award (the Nobel not Idol).

A sporterized version of the UN
The IOC is nothing more than a “sporterized” version of the UN. They both are equally worthless. Who wants to turn on the idiot tube and watch the UN?

Vic
hahaha...supersized version of the UN. I needed a spew alert!!
Is it anything like Ovomit calling for UN help=ie Georgia, and Russia already has a say!!!
He is a clown running for President.

Bind their feet, bind their bodies
The Chinese perfected the bound feet assault on women, so it is only natural that they have only taken it to the extreme by binding whole bodies.

Nee
I said "sporterized" but "supersized" will do as well. LOL, sorry about the keyboard.

By the way, great column, Michelle
You hit the nail on the head, as usual. As the father of a 16 year old, I knew immediately that the chinese had kids less than 16 on the team. I put her age at 13 at the most.

Of course, on the other hand, we lost to a bunch of 13 year olds. On the sandlot, that would tatamount to total humiliation for any 16 year old.

Vic
Good morning. The UN and the IOC do indeed belong in the same shoddy basket. Just another example of idiots in high places, abusing power from an ivory tower. I am often appalled by the foolishness of we common people, but for just plain character and common sense, i agree that i would rather be governed by selecting 600 names at random from phone books than the dismal crew now in power in DC.

mrbmrb
It is truly unfortunate that you don't realize what a sick puppy you really are.

Pistol
Good Morning. Yes, they are both configured the same. Get a pile of 3rd world socialist together and let them "vote" on the rules then make them the referees and judges.

The difference is that there is no "security council" in the IOC so there can never be a return to rationality by somoeone vetoing the insanity.


How did ....
How did some posts get so far off the subject? You dumbos just wasted my time. Take a long walk on a short pier! And if you make it back, stay on subject next time!

Thank you for the column
Ms Malkin. Men debasing and enslaving others for what?

A second in the sun.




China is ruled by Socialists/Communists
THe Chinese people are not to be blamed for their government. They are not free. But we are to be blamed if we allow socialism to take our freedom

So!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So the Chinese may have cheated! I am with you there, but have no proof except history!

However, putting this is perspective: everyone with a brain and alive and kicking know they cheat! So what is the big deal with it appears they did? You should have expected it! And the IOC? They are no better than the United Nations - which is worthless!

So enjoy the honest athletes and ignore the rest. You do not need the stress and high blood pressure. Besides what the heck are you going to do about it?

So Robert...
Exactly what kind of Ranger are you?

not watching.....
Personally I'm amazed that anyone is watching when it was announced it was in China who didn't know they'd go to any extreme to win.. No surprise
They've always exploited kids.. also no surprise
Why encourage it..

I stopped watching the Olympics when they allowed professional athletes to compete. It goes against the grains of the competition.

IOC and UN both unethical..no new news
In it for the money..of course

Whichever tv station carries it making a fortune..
(I don't know 'cause we don't have tv, satalite or cable)

Not watching....

no more olympics for me
the IOC are a bunch of chicken hearts except when it comes to one of our own. Jim Thorpe deserved all his medals, but they were taken away because he played sandlot baseball and got paid a pitance. i don't remember him playing baseball in the olympics. oh and before you all think i am ancient, i only read his history. seems like any other country can be "politically correct" when they cheat. i think i will get my entertainment by watching my own grand children on the nice little moto cross track they made on our back acres. much more interesting and no cheating.
mrbmrb, i have been on other artlcles this mornig and it seems the above post is all you have to say on any of them. do you have any thought about this article at hand? your posts are all identicle on every one. hmmm wonder what we can learn from that.

China
China is no different than Russia of old (cough cough) cheat, lie, and steal, what ever it takes to win. Having a capitalist society is a front, they have not changed.
I am betting Ronnie is rolling over as of late, because the old is not new, it has been right there under the surface all this time. (See Putin)
Good call Michele 5 stars.

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

Hmmm...
my family and I were talking about that very thing...

there's no way those girls are 16...

Dennis sayz:
So Robert...
Exactly what kind of Ranger are you?

You must be new. There is no job in the world that wobbie has not held. Hope that helps.

LMAO (not used with seatbuffers permission)

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

Not Watching
I too would long for the day when pure amateurs competed. Sadly, this has not happened in modern times. The USSR, Cuba, etc. fielded professional athletes at every turn while claiming they were amateur. Only the USA stuck to the tenets of the Olympic Games. Now, at least, the professionalism is in the open.

Typical Commies
Good article. We should pull of the medals from them! Younger children has better flexibility hence better chances to win.

Check out My Blog
Yesterday's post is a reprint from Voice of the Martyrs. China, manipulating the masses for hundreds of years.

Ms. Malkin
Thanks for the column today, but I have to agree with "vamtns41" assertion: what else did we expect? Once it was announced that Beijing had won the bid, the first thing my dad said was , "Well, so much for a fair Games."


Dennis
Not sure about Robert, since he claims to be many things, but I'm pretty sure he is a POKEMON ranger.

;-)

The Professionalization of Sport
Good article. Regrettably it highlights a problem with youth sports that goes well beyond this Olympics and the Chinese. To a lesser degree, one can see signs of a similar excess in America--cheating in Little League baseball, pressuring children to do year-round training, parents and coaches pushing children into sports obsession and serious injury, (especially young girls)--the list goes on. Youth sports are elitist by the time children are in Middle school. They are allowed to ignore their studies and the rules that other students must obey. Instead of building character and strength, youth sports tend to corrupt the characters and often (permanently) damage the bodies of our young.

Darn, robert's post is gone
I guess robert's post was removed...I can only see the responses...

about the article and Chinese little girls: These girls are miraculous because they were actually ALLOWED to live and breathe! China's social engineering is legendary--have we forgotten all the articles ten years ago about women forced to endure state mandated abortions on their girl children? Or the stories of girl children taken from their mother's arms and either KILLED or left to die?

I'm amazed that China has enough girl children to field an Olympic team....

ArmyWifeAggie88
What makes you believe that the state forcing abortions and sterilizations after the one child (males being preferred) is a thing of the past???

Amazing indeed that there are any little girls around.

Malkin wrote
"Lo and behold, the magic dust has worked on the ostriches that sit on the International Olympic Committee (IOC). They're in deeper denial about cheating than John Edwards."

Basically, IOC revealed in 1987/1988 that it is like a park-policeman who issues challans to those walking on grass or picking flowers (including dandelions) and completely ignores real crimes such as robberies, murders, rapes, ... occuring in the same park--when it decided to force many Calgary businesses to remove anything it deemed unauthorised reference to Olympics (some of the businesses had names like "Olympia Pizza", long before Calgary's 1981 bid for Winter Olympics).

sorry to get off topic
but I really need to get here sooner. I always miss the comments by the resident trolls that the "regulars" here crush so completely with logic and intelligence, because they get deleted by the powers that be. Ok, I'll admit reading the troll-posts but that's only because I like to know the whole context of the rebuttals. You "regulars" do it SO WELL! Oh well, mabye next time........

sorry to get off topic
but I really need to get here sooner. I always miss the comments by the resident trolls that the "regulars" here crush so completely with logic and intelligence, because they get deleted by the powers that be. Ok, I'll admit reading the troll-posts but that's only because I like to know the whole context of the rebuttals. You "regulars" do it SO WELL! Oh well, mabye next time........

:o) Mrs.Paddy
I don't believe that Chinese abortion-enforced sex-selection is a thing of the past. I just don't think anyone is willing to point it out these days. Plus, these girls were born during those days (when the world actually tried to confront China on this human rights violation).

You're right, it is amazing!

mrs.paddy
you are very correct that getting rid of the little girls is not a thing of the past. actually, there are still some hospitals in china that contain a room where new borns are taken and needles inserted into the soft spots of their skulls to kill them. this is not done just to girls though. this is done if the mother has more than one child. it was supposed to be outlawed officially, but it still takes place today. i have several acquaintences from china. they came here for school and had more than one child. the mother of one family now wants to go back to china since her children are several years old.. the daddy wants to stay here in a free America. in the old days they killed the girl babies outright or took them out to the stoop and left them naked for the stray dogs to tear apart and eat. disgusting bit of humanity are the chinese. if i were disgustingly rich i would not attend the olympics in that God forsaken country. in defense of some chinese, some are really good people though their culture has a very long history of murder.

well I guess I didn't miss them all
Georgetwinkie so now you're blaming Bush for China's communism/power? Well, I suppose since he's to blame for all the world's problems for the last eight years, including Katrina and the Indonesian Tsunami why not? Too bad your BDS doesn't allow clear thinking. But then again when emotion rules over logic and fact, what else would one expect?

Dennis
Based on the content of Wobbie's posts, I'd guess that he may be one of Captain Video's Video Rangers from back in the 50s.

The Fact is
There is a faster growing Christian population in China than most folks know about.

We need to continue to Pray for China and the persecuted church there.

Malkin...
The mericn AmBigot spews more venom.

dennis, Dennis
There is a third possibility:

"Robert" has also been known to post under "Rocky Jones", the celebrated space ranger from the 1954 serials.

Still, I vote for POKEMON RANGER, since he likes to play with the Poke Balls.

;-)

Why the age limit in the first place?
I don't understand why gymnastics put an age limit in the first place. I have seen 14 year old divers in the olympics this year. No age limit and no controversy. The goal is to find the best athlests in the world. Not the best over the age of 16. If China broke the rules, then they should be punished, but I think it is a stupid rule to begin with.

twinkie...
Once one resorts to crass language and rampant insults, one shows himself to be without intelligent, and defensible, points with which to debate.

I'll bet Maggie can point to multiple sources ("witnesses") who will attest to the cheapest and most expedient means to which the Chinese clinics resorted to extinguish unwanted lives.

Methinks it is not Maggie who is an "idiot."

To all concerned:
Please be advised "georgetwinkie" is none other than the poster formerly known as "tr", "republicans=debt", "sdgdf", "treasonous republicans", among other names.

As you can tell already, the crystal meth he is imbibing today is very strong.

wow, YLG
How do y'all know so much? I gotta get in here more often...I miss out on all the good gossip.

Last I saw "robert" was ranger something...

Y
"Your country"??

Are we to assume you are not from the US?

Or can we deduce you are just an American who doesn't like their country?

Enquiring minds want to know.....

aj
There is really only one troll who gets the daily boot - and that is "Robert" in all his various incarnations, most recently "Ranger29".

If you are looking for guilty-pleasure entertainment - you can count on "Ranger 29/Robert" to be posting all weekend long, as the moderators who do the "booting" don't work weekends.

Three things you need to know about "Robert", though:

1. He hates Bush so much that he can contort any subject into a "Bush Bash".
2. His many personal achievement claims, especially a claim that he is an active duty US Navy Captain in the Middle East, have been so thoroughly debunked that he has become a caricature of himself.
3. Despite his so-called support of McCain - virtually all his positions are those of the political left - and he only "gets along" with the other liberal trolls who post on these threads.

So - enjoy if you wish. He can sometimes be fun to toy with - as a cat toys with a ball of yarn.

Y
What an excellent question, "Y".

As in "Y" do you hate your country so much?

Or

"Y" don't you go take a long walk off a short pier.

Or

"Y" do you lie about where you live?

ArnyWifeAggie88
Are you kidding???

"Robert" is tireless in his quest for immortality here! He doesn't use "Rocky Jones" anymore; I think it was banned. For a while, he claimed his IP was automatically generating new monikers!!

"Ranger29" (I can only assume it's his IQ) is his latest.

The IOC
the chinese ... and the IOC are most likely being coached by the DNC ( the john edwards camp) how best to spin lies....

YLG
writes:
"Not sure about Robert, since he claims to be many things, but I'm pretty sure he is a POKEMON ranger."

Nice!

good morning to ya!

Correction to "aj"
Unfortunately, there is another idiot troll who was banished long ago - disappeared for a while - but has recently returned.

And today's incarnation is "georgetwinkie".

Unlike "Robert", "georgetwinkie" makes no attempt to appear intelligent or informed, just mindless and juvenile name-calling.

The good news is that it is summer - school is out - and he'll be off to the mall to meet his friends soon.

ArmyWifeAggie88
Oh, by the way, I'm Class of '89!

WHOOP!!!!!!

SSGT
Good morning to you, as well!

C'mon, you know I'm right.

I'll bet anything he changed to "Ranger" because Wal-Mart got a Pikachu ride.

;-)

Communist frauds (age)
The age cheating is prevalent in the East Bloc. Daniela Silivas, a Romanian gymnast, admitted in 2002 her age was altered from 13 to 15 by Romanian authorities to compete in the 1985 FIG World Championships. She could have been in trouble with Cobb County (GA) authorities if she gave a false birth date. (Daniela Harper lives in Marietta with her husband Scott, son Jaden, and daughter Ava.) The North Koreans were banned from the 1993 FIG World Championships after fraudulent age of one gymnast was given at Indy for the 1991 Worlds and Barcelona for the 1992 Olympics.

The "unified team" concept in 1992 was a one-time event because the Soviet teams had qualified for the Olympics before the final breakup of the country. Keep in mind that the three Baltic republics had broken first and had nations ready to compete in qualifying tournaments before the other 11 breakaway nations. They didn't have a chance to field a separate team before the start of the qualifying tournaments, so the IOC did the Unified Team in order to let these athletes compete under the Olympic banner for team sports, but in individual sports, each winner was represented by their own country's flag (and anthem, if necessary).

The ChiComs had Taiwan bounced out of every organisation in the 1970's. Taiwan was bounced out of Montreal in 1976 by the ChiComs.

China's medals are meaningless
When it’s a career supported by the state, the medals won by athletes are meaningless.

Maybe for the next twenty years, we should institute a program where we, as a nation, financially support our athletes. Then, when we win ALL the medals, we can go to China and the rest of the world and say, “If you ever want to win again, start using amateurs.”

And yes, though the United States does not pay our basketball players, I don’t appreciate our professionals being in the Olympics.

And why isn’t either the team or individuals of the American women’s gymnastic team suing China to disqualify them?

Newbie asks
Does anyone know why our athletes are not singing the national anthem? You can see they want to. However, once past "...and the land of the free..." they belt out the final words. Chinese sing, French sing, but our guys evidently have been put on notice - at least so it seems to me.

I love the Olympiad but am furious the IOC sent them to China! But it is not our athletes' fault so I watch and support them; swimming, volley ball, et al and last night, our two beautiful eligible gymnasts beat, whooped the Chinese preschoolers, in spite of fixed judging in Chinese favor. [shaking head]

Great site and comments. Thanks so much Michelle, for your spot on article.

Primus
"Unlike "Robert", "georgetwinkie" makes no attempt to appear intelligent or informed, just mindless and juvenile name-calling."

Operative word there is "attempt". Robert tends to cut and paste. So he's not even smart enough to come up with his own stupidity.

YLG & SSGT
Good morning.

Sorry to butt in, but I think "Robert" has settled on "Ranger" because of his claims to be a Texan - and Texas Rangers are another group of elites of which "Robert" wishes he was a member.

Actually, I'm surprised he hasn't claimed he was a Ranger. Perhaps even he can't keep track of another fantasy.

Cheers!

Y/Georgetwinkles
"Y" are we soooo alike, twinkles? "Y" do we hate everything? "Y" can't we act like normal people, instead of totally whacked out pinheads?


Max Power
Agreed. But at least the attempt is made.

Cheers.

Primus54
Well, you make a strong argument, Primus. Personally, I think he also took inspiration from the "Rocky Jones, Space Ranger" serial. Or maybe he wishes he had been an Airborne Ranger...or a Forest Ranger....or maybe even a member of NIGHT RANGER.

So many ways to go with this, hmmm??

But can't you just picture him on a Pikachu ride???

Chinese cheaters
Thank you Michelle for saying out loud what all of us would like to! It's become so racist that my freedom of speech doesn't exist...not okay for a white lady to accuse anyone but another white (preferably male)of being a cheater. It's disgusting how cowed the ENTIRE WORLD is by the Chinese...and you ain't seen nothin' yet...

rockisback1@yahoo.com
Gee, you absolutely right!

Rules don't matter!

And, if it shows up America, all the better!

Or, on the other hand, rock, don't get an hiv test. Considering how you like to bend over for anything UnAmerican, the quicker you die from aids, the better.

georgetwinkie
I DON'T defend the GOP spending since 2000 - but the GOP DID reduce the amount of spending Clinton wanted in the 90's.

Now - I've answered your totally off-topic question - so I have one for you.

Why do you re-register and post on these threads when Townhall has specifically and permanently banned you?

Do you think you are somehow "above" such restrictions?

rockisback1
I see your point. The Chinese girls were very good, no doubt about that.

However, it boils down to the unwillingness of the IOC to enforce their rules when faced with facts. I still recall when Marion Jones was stripped of her medals, and the scandals around Carl Lewis.

If it had been the AMERICAN team doing the cheating, I have no doubt the IOC would have come down on them like a sledgehammer.

Problems with Comparisons to 1970
The biggest difference between the cheating done in the 1970s and today was the fact that so many Americans and Europeans bought into or were intimidated by the Communist Warsaw Pact and the USSR. Most people forgot how strong the dissent against Western styled democracy/capitalism was in the 1970s. Fellow Travelers in our media, the Democratic and GOP parties, and of course the universities constantly lectured us on how we were all just the same, and if anything the Soviet Model was superior to the West's model. The Soviets and Warsaw Pact used sports and venues like the Olympics to propagandizes to these "usefull idiots". For a Communist athlete, there was big bucks, a dacha, and awards if they were willing to dope, or use other drugs.

Remember Vladimir Cirpinski? The East German marathon runner, whose best time before the 1976 games was 2 hours 19 minutes. In Montreal, Cirpinski ran 2 hours and 9 minutes -beating Frank Shorter by a full 45 seconds. Shorter, for the last a decade has kept up a long running suit, in which he wants Cirpinski's medical records from 1976 supeoned. The UOC and Germany refuses -of course.

Today, no one buys into China's Potemkin village. No one buys into the communist ideology. This is not the 1970s. Communists are dead, and the "uselfull idiots" now bark for Islam.

CC& CIOC
Michelle, I could not agree more!! I have a 15 year old daughter...and I can tell you that few of those Chinese gymnists look close to 16 years old. They look 8 - 10 years old, max. ..and my daughter lost her baby teeth late, but still looks physically nothing like those girls. It is a sham...and the whole world can tell. Very sad!!!

YLG
Yes, I can see the Pikachu connection.

In fact, here is a picture of Ranger Robert's "ride":

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:TOYOTA_ist_Pikachu_ Car.jpg

georgetwinkie ...
Why not move to either Canada or Europe and try "socialized" medicine for a bit. Then perhaps you can come back and speak from a position of knowing. There is ample evidence that those that have enough money actually come to the US for medical care.

Why not address that, hummm?

UNDERAGE EXCUSES AND SUB PAR PERFORMANCE

.....Conceeding that some of the Chinese performers were probably underage does not explain the sub par performance of the American team ...they made too many crucial errors and did not deserve the Gold Medal ...to para phrase Lincoln, "You do not strenthen the weak, by critizing the strong" ...

.....In the all around the American girls redemed themselves by finishing one-two for Gold and Silver ...and these medals were earned by their superior performances .....COLOSSUS

Primus54/YLG
you two take the cake! So thats what Wobbie's Pikachu looks like! I see why it would fit his style so well. LOL

Ken
writes:
"Why not move to either Canada or Europe and try "socialized" medicine for a bit. Then perhaps you can come back and speak from a position of knowing."


Why would he want to do that, Ken. Then he would lose his govment doled dime that he gets once a month to sit at his computer and act a fool.

PRIMUS!!!!!!
Dear heavens, man!!!

Next time post a "Spew Alert", will ya!!??

Although, I don't think Ranger Robert can afford it on his allowance....

;-)

Politics and the Olympics
The Olympic creed, articulated by Baron de Coubertin, asserts: "The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not to win but to take part, just as the most important thing in life is not the triumph but the struggle. The essential thing is not to have conquered but to have fought well." MM

All the gold medals China gets does not glitter nor does the winner shine as a champion in Olympic competition. The political puffs who call themselves officials are just as crooked as the Chinese coaches.

I pray our American coaches do not cheat or bring politics into the games. GO PHELPS! GET EIGHT!


Just another perspective
First, IMHO, boycotting the Olympics in 1980 was (yet another) symbol of the stupidity, waste, and cowardice of the Carter "administration."

Second, the biggest poke in Hitler's eye prior to 1941 was Americans -- especially non-Caucasian Americans -- winning everything but an Iron Cross in '36.

Therefore, much as I understand the feelings of those who call for boycott -- either personally or as a nation -- I can't agree.

Yes, the IOC is just as feckless and corrupt as the UN. Yes, the ChiComs are cheating like John Edwards, Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy put together.

But that made last night even MORE satisfying. With judges so obviously in the tank against America that even the NBC commentators noticed, and with eugenically-produced, state-controlled ChiCom ringers in the mix, it was STILL the Star Spangled Banner being played at the last night.

If you weren't cheering over that, well, I don't know what to say.

Olympic Gymnastics
Any "sport" where the outcome is determined by judging is an entertainment exhibition, not a sport. Gymnastics, particularly women's gymnastics, is a giant snooze. We should learn the lesson that the ChiComm government, much like the Obama campaign, will do anything to win. This is an important lesson. As for the Olympics themselves, who cares?

And this is supposed to be news?
Olympic athletes cheat--some on their own--e.g. Chang Tai Shan, an outfielder for Taiwan just tested positive for doping--and other times it is state sponsored--e.g. the GDR.

It is obvious that some of the girls are pre-teen. The Olympics has been a giant fraud for years, what is one more fraud to add to the list? In fact most athletics now are giant frauds--Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, etc. Why should the Olympics be any different.

Speaking of ignoring, "georgetwinkie":
I answered your question...

Why won't you answer mine?

I asked you the same question yesterday - and you just headed for the exit.

Better hurry, though. TH might boot you any moment (again).

Doc Liberty
Well said!!!

Boycotting the Olympics hurts the athletes who worked tirelessly to earn a spot. When Carter boycotted the Moscow Olympics, he gave legitimacy to politicizing future Olympics, a venue where politics should never enter.

And yes, I was cheering last night, too!!!

China and Clinton
"Clinton never had anything to do with the ChiComs, right? Cetainly no state secrets went over there? Nor any large amounts of campaign contributions coming this way to Clinton? Or to the missus?"

Yes, but not how you see it. The real issue was the transfer of control from State and DOD to DOC. This was heavily pushed by firms such as Hughes and Rockwell who wanted a piece of the China rocket market. Due to very lax security such as those guarding the technology and in some cases even sleeping with Chinese nationals who turned out to be agents of the Chinese intelligence community, China gained lots of technology information. In other cases, you had outright spying by Americans for China.

China's link to Clinton was more in the tune of it trying to influence the 1996 election, not technology transfer. Clinton had a hand in this--but this was due to pressure from American firms that supported him like Hughes, not from agents of the PRC.

And yes, Colosteve. What does this have to do with this subject?

YLG
Great point. Exactly right. If the questions were about USA atheletes, then the International Community would be pursuing it with great glee.

YLG
...and with great intesity.

In all fairness....
...I personally think the age requirement (new to the 2008 Olympics, if I'm not mistaken) is absurd. If the best athlete of a given sport is a 13-year-old, why deny her the chance to compete? Wasn't it in Athens where one of the GOLD medalist platform divers was a **9** year old? What is the logic behind denying her the chance to compete outside of satisfying the cry-babies who that kid beat?

Now with that said, the rules are the rules. The rule exists, and everyone knows about the rules, even if they are stupid rules. If you want to compete, abide by the rules.

Ok who here is
really shocked and amazed that communists cheat?

Akagi
How can you say that? We all know that Republicans are the only party who does favors for big business. Democrats don't do favors for anyone in big business.

China

Sure this potential fraud must be investigated, but until then this article and some comments just makes Americans look like a bunch of whining sore losers. Until then, we lost fair and square...get over it, go throw darts at a picture of Obama.

grubby
Outside of the Diaoyutai, when has China exactly issue any threats on Japanese territory? The Diaoyutai (Senkaku in Japanese) are claimed by Taiwan, China and Japan--and basically occupied by Japan.

As for Taiwan, while I dispute their claims on Taiwan, Taiwan was promised to China in 1943 by the United States and the United Kingdon at Cairo and later included in the Potsdam Declaration issued to Japan. While Japan in 1950 never formally Ceded Taiwan and Penghu to anyone, the ROC occupied it in October of 1945 and as the PRC is seen as the successor state, it thus claims Taiwan as an integral part of China. A number of democracies hold this view as well such as Australia. That the Taiwan problem is an internal affair for China and China alone.

Also, China today is nothing like Nazi Germany.

As you arming enemies, you might want to look at Israel then and see where China has acquired a good deal of its weaponary from--see the python III air-to-air missile for example and who helped them with their cruise missile technology. It wasn't Bill Clinton.

Akagi
This is off topic somewhat, but you hit on a topic that gets my blood boiling. With the Clinton history of taking illegal money from agents of the Chinese government, wasn't it interesting that the MSM had a decided lack of interest in the "Hillary Illegal Chinese Money" story. I rmember Obama getting beat up over $80K from Resko, yet the MSM yawning over the $800K she got from that crook in San Francisco. Of course she knew nothing about it though he was a chairman on her campaign. Combine that with the Clinton history with illegal Chinese money and I think you have a story well worth some intense investigative journalism. Imagine a Republican with this history...

thanks for the defense armywifeaggie88
i am a former student. nuff said.
yes, i can point to sources. perl s. buck, who wrote "the good earth" lived for many years in china. she wrote the book about what she saw there and the informtion was also included in biography. as i said above, i have chinese acquaintences. i asked them about what pearl buck stated and asked about a news article i read about the killing of infants at birth and they confirmed the information was correct. alas, i do not have the article as it burned with my home, but it was very interesting reading. from what you said above, i think you were defending me from someone not too nice. shame people have to be hateful in these posts. i stated only what i researched and believe to be true. the chinese government tries to hide these facts due to human rights complaints. that does not make them untrue. as far as the olympics, i will support our athletes, but not the olympic games themselves. i think what they might need is an olympic committee made up of a member from every nation and a contract made up with all rules and signed by each. followed and enforced. no exceptions.. but that would be impossible in a world that all want "the power". too bad.

Hondo
Michelle is one of the hottest women in media today. Apparently you've never seen her on TV. You probably couldn't even get out a hello to a woman this hot.

Joycey
"THe Chinese people are not to be blamed for their government. They are not free."

The Chinese by and large support the government and if free elections were held, the CCP would win in a landslide. The Chinese people are even more hard-line and nationalist than their government on issues like Taiwan, Tibet, Falungong, and its relations with the US.

Chinese are also more free than you think. China is not a blackhole of totalitarianism. And if they were free, don't expect a democratic China to act much different in regards to issues like Taiwan or Tibet or be any more pro-American, in fact in may indeed be more anti-American. The richest Chinese--those that would be the power behind a democratic China--also tend to be the most anti-American/anti-Western.

Little Girls--Mrs. Paddy
China's ratio is about 122 boys for every 100 girls, so they are still millions of girls born every year. There is still a one child policy which states that in the urban areas you can only have one child and in the rural areas, a second child if the first is a girl. Forced abortions, sterlizations still take place.

China plans to abolish this policy at some point, but for now it still stands.

Cookie

I wasn't saying she isn't attractive, just she could be feeling the affects of old age, alot of women do.

Well your right, she has one good thing going for her!

Hondo
who is your media babe, Helen Thomas?

Cookie
"How can you say that? We all know that Republicans are the only party who does favors for big business. Democrats don't do favors for anyone in big business."

Do you really believe that, Cookie?

How about Global Crossings and the Clintons?
How about Enron and the Clintons via Robert Rubin?
How about Goldman Sachs and the Clintons?
Then there is Loral and the Clintons.
Not to forget about Conrad and Dodd and Country Wide
Not to forget avout Symantec, Sun Micro Systems, and Oracle and the Clintons
Or how about Pelosi and T Boone Pickens? She owns a few hundred thousand dollars in stock in his Wind Turbine Company
Or T-Boone Pickens buying Hillary a $1000 of cattle futures, which she later cashed out at $100,000

I could go on and on... but please, the Dems are in bed with big business as much as anyone.

Y
Ni Shi Zhongguoren Ma?


SSGT3
Helen Thomas....circa 1930s. She was banging.

Y
I guess this is just another on the long list of human rights violations from China, but that's ok with you because some idiots on the USA team (adults BTW) took steroids.

You're a complete tool...

Hondo
or would you prefer Janet Reno's wattle?

Cookie
Thanks for the post!

I noticed he didn't refute my assertions, though.

;-)

Someday The People in China
Will rebel against the West using them for cheap labor, and for the West outsourcing thier pollution to thier nation. The China Model for Western Businesses will not last forever. Eventually, the people in China will get fed-up with working 90 hour work weeks, only getting 10% of the pay the West enjoys. They will also rebel against the enviromental devastation that is occuring there.

Max Power
I am pretty sure Y is a resident of China actually. As for lying where you live, well, thanks to the brilliant webmasters as TH, you have no option to pick outside the US--you can't even pick Guam which--Yes Dick Morris--is part of the United States. So if you are in China for example, you have to pick some state to post. If they are going to require a state to register and post, be nice if they had a "outside of the US" option.

(Dick Morris would often talk about foreign aid to Guam which is a pretty stupid statement really).

Dear Leader says.. smile..look happy !!
So.. I am proping my eyes open here on left
coast..1am something.. Shawn Johnson is looking
up at the screen..after the floor exercise..
nbc. looses the signal..arrrgh !! I smell a rat .. came back on hour later..just local news
on now..I am furious! I lose my beauty rest for nothing !!
The China dollies look so hungry.. do they get a spoon of something after the meet? Just little weak bones..dressed in onesies..someone
send Paula Dean asp. Butter them up !!
However, on a serious note..to lie ..to cheat..
to steal..from the USA. is okfine ..after all
we are the big Satan.. out to destroy the world!
Look at those kids!! Do they have rickets ? Tb?
The Chinese people are doing a good job of destroying themselves. Ya think?

Hahahaha, JPK

Yeah, they'll rebel, all right.

After all, they have the Tien An Mien square experience to show them how well that kind of rebellion works out.


Akagi
I'm pretty sure of that person's nationality too. It was obvious when Y deflected his/her country's transgression with a typically lame "Your country has cheaters".

I just threw the lie thing out there because Y could just as easily have posted that it is from China.

I guess they don't teach intellectual honesty in China, just how to make lousy products....

jpk
wow, now china's plight is the fault of the west. how do you figure? thier government has the same technology to make the plants environmentally better, but they do not want to spend the money. they have the ability to make fair market value from what they produce, but they don't. they keep their labor forces working like slaves or indentured servants.. but of course that is the fault of the west. i suppose we americans are supposed to take the entire blame for

Really talented


I don’t like them to break the rules, but don’t you agree that a 10 to 14 years old that talented, is even more amazing than a 16 to 18 year old.




Not exactly true
"The ChiComs had Taiwan bounced out of every organisation in the 1970's. Taiwan was bounced out of Montreal in 1976 by the ChiComs."

Blame Canada. China was not even in the Olympics yet. That wouldn't happen until 1984. In 1976 Canada switched recognition to the PRC and Canada informed the ROC it could not compete in the Olympics as the Republic of China, so the ROC team withdrew from the games.

Taiwan continued to boycott the games--winter and summer in 1980. In 1984, both the PRC (first time) and Taiwan (as Chinese Taipei (Zhonghua Taibei) competed in the games, as part of the agreement Taiwan was no longer allowed to use its name--the ROC, display its flag--it has to use a special Olympic flag instead.

http://www.fotw.net/flags/tw@sport.html#oli

It also can't have its national anthem played. This year, China tried to have Taiwan renamed to China Taipei (Zhongguo Taibei) and imply it was part of China. Taiwan issued a threat it would withdraw if there was this change. The old name remained.

Sadly, it wasn't China that bounced Taiwan from the international organizations, but the international community--Taiwan left the Un in 1971 on the eve of being removed from the UN and today after 13 years of trying has yet to be allowed back in and with zero help from its so-called friends like the US. Taiwan is not in the IMF, the World Bank and UN umbrella organizations like the WHO--Taiwan is even blocked from WHO technical meetings.


We're better than they are.
The Olympics have always been fraught with cheating as long as I can remember back to 1972-remember the 72 Olympic Basketball Team? To my mind this has always been an issue with the less open societies. In my opinion,so what? Two of our women gymnasts claimed Gold and Silver playing within the rules. We have a young man about to destroy every record simply on the basis of his genetics, work ethic and personal drive.
America has always taken the moral high ground. For me, representing the United States stands for fair play, national pride, good sportmanship, teamwork and clarity of conscience. Even in Iraq we are winning the hearts and minds of the people because Al Queda is nothing more than a band of thugs killing the Iraqi future with nothing else to offer.
Let them cheat. Our conscience is clear.

Akagi
"Chinese are also more free than you think. China is not a blackhole of totalitarianism. And if they were free, don't expect a democratic China to act much different in regards to issues like Taiwan or Tibet or be any more pro-American, in fact in may indeed be more anti-American. The richest Chinese--those that would be the power behind a democratic China--also tend to be the most anti-American/anti-Western."

Riiiiiiight.....that's why the Chinese government severely limits internet access to it's own people lest they find out what real freedom is.

How many dissidents are there in Chinese prisons now? You seem to know everything about China, her policies, and the mood of her people, surely you know this bit of information??

Primus54
Robert or Ranger29 has a bio at Huffington Post, where I suppose he contributes. His bio states he is a retired USAF Light Colonel, and lives in Pennsylvania.

The man certainly has problems. Who knows how many personalities he has in cyber world. I just ignore him

jim
"I don’t like them to break the rules, but don’t you agree that a 10 to 14 years old that talented, is even more amazing than a 16 to 18 year old."

Agreed. But rules is rules.

If you disregard them then you can say that it's more amazing that an athlete does well on steroids than one that doesn't do them.

Absolutely spot on.
The enabling of the judges in the girls gymnastics is so blatant even the commentators are gasping at the bias....supreme iron justice is that the US took home both the gold and the silver Thursday night.

As Bella said..."You go girls!!"

Why is this news?
Why is it news that the Chinese are cheating?

Why is it news that the IOC is ignoring chinese misdeeds?

The Communist Chinese (and the Soviets before them) have been cheating in international competitions since they started playing. In Seoul, people were remarking that you didn't need to test the Chinese "Women" swimmers for drugs, but to ensure that they were, in fact, women.

Even the COMMENTATORS were remarking about the youth of the Chinese girls' gymnastics team, and sports commentators are among the least aware people on the planet, even when you include the IOC and the UN.

The whole thing with the Milli-Vanilli-style national anthem is just typical. They want to prove that their race and their system can produce the best of everything, even a cute little girl who can sing really well.

(I will say, though, that I don't make much of the simulated fireworks during the opening ceremonies. If Malkin is referring to what I think she's referring to (the giant footsteps that were supposedly moving toward the stadium), it was obvious to anyone watching that they were CG, and the commentators even mentioned that it was what the designers had wanted it to look like, but that it was, in fact, a simulation.)

The IOC has been ignoring the evil of the Chinese Regime since they awarded them the games in 2001. Chinese human rights violations and other misdeeds weren't news then, and they aren't news now.

the chicoms
have decided that having a sports identity is a national goal. There are the stories on the olympic channels explaining the process the chinese use to identity and train their youth to excell at sports.

That in itself is not a problem. But breaking the rules to win goes beyond the sportsmanship that the olympics committee always overlooks less they offend some third world tyrant government especially if america is involved.

Back in the 70's the east german women came from not being able to compete against americans to dominating the swimming.

But many years later the proof came out of the drugs used and they east germans dying from the drug use. But still the olympic committee did nothing to change the olympic records.

More recently an irish swimmer had similar spectacular results. But after winning olympic glory and gold medals she immediately retired and refused to take any blood tests.

So the olympics, while a showcase for various countries, seemingly does little to correct it's tarnished image nor ever corrects cases of cheating after the results are in

why not
just beat them, no matter what their age

Maggie
You seem to mis-understand me. The Chicom goverment controls most of thier industry, as well as controlling the wages and conditions of thier factories and cities. China's biggest and only assett is the willingness of its people to work about 20% wages as the West. Even thier engineers work for peanuts when compared to ours. US Corporations biggest efficieny gains have been in the reduction of employee overhead -ie setting up shop in China. Even high tech firms such as Intel, Oracle, Microsoft, Google, and Motorola have moved much of thier businesses over there.

The ChiCom goverment in order to meet the huge demand of Western nations has allowed a hyperactive expansion of thier industrial base the world has never seen. Thier demand for energy is almost beyond belief. In the process, they've polluted thier enviorment to a point where citizens must wear masks just to go to market or to work. Hundreds of millions of peasants have moved to the cities, which can be as large as 30 million -sometimes 4 families to an apartment.

At some point, the Chinese workers will say enough is enough. China is very vulnerable economically. Without a consumer base with any disposable income, China is more vulnerable to a recession than we or Europe is. She depends on the West for about 90% of her economy. There is no safety net or diversification. Could you imagine what China would be like if the US/Europe fell into a recession? How would China handle hours cut and layoffs for a urban prolatariate of 300 million?

JPK,

That bio on Huffpo is HaldD, not Roberto the Ranger.

HaldD's a retired light colonerl USAF.

Roberto used to maintain the fiction that he was a Navy Captain flying jets, and other fantasies. He's flat-out refused to ever provide any backup to his ridiculous claims, even including the issue of "Proceedings" in which an article he claimed to have written appeared.

He's just a nut. Ignore him.


JPK
ah,i now understand and beg forgiveness.. i had the idea you were blaming the west for china's problems. i hate outsourcing. i will not even use tech support, but get someone local to help with anything i find outsourced. that is not easy these days. i am afraid i like no lead in my clothing, kids toys, etc. and i like to be able to understand the person who is trying to help me with my computer. that probably makes me a bad person, but that is the way it is. china wanted the games to be so perfect, that money should have been spent on the people of their own country. i do feel for the chinese people. thier government has a lot to answer for. as does our own.

CHICOMS GO HOME!!
Isn't it better to have their children prance in front of a gullible world than to blow them up in fireworks factories, making piros for the opening ceremony?

Max Power
Saying China is freer than you think it is is not the same as saying it is free. In many ways China is like Taiwan in the 1970s. My sister-in-law once bought some English language encyclopedias back in the early 1980s I think it was. When she got them whole passages had been marked out with a black magic marker so you couldn't read what the government didn't want you to read.

China does try to limit what comes over the Internet--known unofficially as the Great Firewall of China and officially as the Golden Shield Project (Jindun Gongcheng). It is somewhat sucessful but like the Great Wall itself, it doesn't stop everybody. According to the Duihua Foundation (means dialogue in Chinese), China holds 15,325 political and religious prisoners as of June 2008.

Do I know everything about China--no--but I know more than the ordinary bear--or TH columnist--in regards to the subject




JPK
The quality of goods and services produced in China is insufficient to demand higher prices. The only reason US companies do business in China is because the prices are dirt cheap. Otherwise, they would never put up with the lousy quality.

JPK
That was my (poor) atttempt at sarcasm. Check out my 11:42am post which will reveal my political leanings. I'd like to know what you think about Norman Hsu.

Georgetwinkie
georgetwinkie says: how do you defend the deficit spending repugs have embraced since reagan?

We dont! Us conservatives are pretty angry about it too. I mean, they are spending like Democrats!

georgetwinkie says: if "socialized" medicine is so bad why is there no movement in canada or europe to have hmo care? it seems like those people have suffered with health care long enough.

Actually, last time I in Britain there was alot of debate about people wanting private health care, and alot of news stories about how the country is trying to reduce the long waiting list problem for care, not too mention all the superbugs floating around their hospitals that resist anti biotics.

Pirating the Olympics
Its no different then their business practices, stealing international patents and manufacturing knockoffs and putting legitimate businesses out of business with sweat labor and stolen intellectual property.

Copy, Steal, and then have the audacity to pawn it off on the world stage. pathetic and the gold is not worth the bronze, and the americans should be awarded the gold for the sake of fair sportsmanship not politics.

JPK
Let me add to your list. Though these arre not "corporations," the effect is the same.
Trial Lawyers
Education
Environmentalists

Dems will bow to them no matter how ridiculous their poitions are. Examples:

Trial Lawyers-Let's sue Telecommunication companies for cooperating with the government in the war on terror. What if those companies hadn't cooperated? If the government tells you to do something, isn't there a presumption that it is OK to do (legal).

Education-They tellus that if we just spend more money...this despite the fact that non-public institutions (including home schooling) are getting far better results while spending a fraction of what public education does. This despite record increases in federal spending on public education. But of course, competition won't work, the democrats tell us.

Environmentalists-Trying to reverse the laws of Economics by denying increased supply (drilling) will lower prices. All the while, this hurts the constituency they claim to care for most, the poor/average American.

All in the name of those campaign contributions they label evil if they come from corporations.

The Olympics in summation:
Who cares?

I saw this coming on Day 1
I recall vividly the day the IOC awarded China the 2008 Summer Games. I roundly denounced them for it and said this was just like sending the games to Nazi Germany. In fact, it was worse: since the lead-time on this sort of thing is typically seven years, when Germany was awarded the 1936 games, the Nazis had not yet come to power.

My then-girlfriend, descended from a long line of outright Communists -- seriously, red as a sunset, her mother just *loved* me, not -- castigated me for disparaging the Chinese people. I replied that I was disparaging their bloodthirsty totalitarian state, not the long suffering population. As had occurred previously in similar situations, rather than debate the merits, she gathered her belongings and stormed out.

We stopped seeing each other not long after that. My opinion has never changed, and the corruption the Chinese have evidenced in, just for example, their gymnastic team this year has only confirmed it. I wonder, given the boldness of their obvious frauds, whether hers has.


Akagi
My post had nothing to do with the column. But you would have seen the reasoning for it last night if you had read Robert's post (since deleted) where he immediately introduced President Bush into the discussion, somehow linking Bush to what the Chicoms did. So I just brought up how Clinton's administration was tied quite closely to China but countered that neither of these had anything to do with the article. My intent was to try shutting down Robert but we all know that is pointless.

BrianR-Lolo-Ssgt-YLG-Anne-Primus-Others
I LOVE Michelle’s Columns, but who is surprised by this? Saying The ChiComs Cheat is like saying TR is a Gutless, Drunken, Lying, Momma’s Boy of a Liberal Coward.

Verifying age
Why would we expect China/IOC to be honest and provide/require legal documentation of age? Our own presidential candidate does not have to provide a legal birth certificate to prove he is a US citizen!

Georgetwin
So it's a Great Truth, right??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

;-)

Why not little girl gymnastics
Isn't the whole idea behind having a 16 year old definition of women's gymnastics is so that little girls with a higher muscle to weight ratio and smaller builds would not have an unfair advantage over post puberty women in flipping and other gymnastic moves.

Why not just make it mandatory that all contestants must be post menstural women? If you are incapable of producing children you are a child and should not compete against women!

The Chinese little girls gymnastics team would have been banned from the outset!

not a expert but
From my business interactions and travels it does seem to me that in general for the Chinese, an end result that contributes to the "harmony" of the Chinese society (note here that it's national harmony and not as much international harmony) trumps the means and methods. That philosophy makes cheating morally acceptable (here again acceptable when it comes to cheating in an international context but not so much cheating within their own nation - which leads to the gallows).

Cheating ChiComs
We should know by now we can't trust Communists,no matter what country they're from.

16 yr old? 3rd place
In spite of the questionable scroing last night for the all-round champion, the Americans scored!!! And rightly so. I wonder how much money the IOC was given to look the other way regarding the 16 year olds? Poor Baron Coubertin, he is probably turning in his grave over this recent "cheating." I wonder how the Chinese can "save face" when the question of age rises for their gymnasts. It is so obvious. Oh well!

Been watching closely
There is just no way these girls are the ages that they are claiming, on top of the fact that several of them were said to be between 11 and 13 just under a year ago! Wow...the Chinese age quickly!

This just reminds me all too much of cheating in little league baseball when kids on the all star teams in my area would be playing on teams that they were too old to be a part of. Where is the moral fiber in sports anymore? If these little girls truely are the best, they still would have been the best in another 3 or 4 years when they are actually eligible for the Olympics Games.

This is all in addition to the extremely unfair and biased scoring of the judges where they deducted huge points from the US Ladies and hardly deducted at all from the Chinese for the same errors in their routines.

At least Nastia and Shawn took the All Around!!!

Cookie wrote...
"All in the name of those campaign contributions they label evil if they come from corporations. "

Actually, Democrats love campaign contributions from all sources whether they are corporations, foreign nationals etc. In their eyes, the only "evil" campaign donations are those going to Republicans.


Let me get this straight
People are upset that China may be cheating by putting their less experienced, less skillfull gymnasts against the best in the world? How many 8 year old US gymnasts could outperform any member of the US Olympic Team? If the Chinese team is that young, they are going to be very difficult to beat in the next olympics.

Ind Observer
Go back to sleep and write again when you understand the issues about the age of gymnasts.

If you guys
think that it is okay for the ChiComs to cheat by putting younger ones in there to compete then you need to study human biology and anatomy.

Obviously the Chinese have.

Furthermore if you justify it at all then why have any rules at all? Why throw out those that use steroids?

Ind Observer
I think you missed the point.

We aren't upset the young Chinese girls beat the American girls. They did a tremendous job.

We are upset because the IOC has been given proof that the Chinese gov't broke the rules, and they are just looking the other way.

As I stated before, if it had been the AMERICAN team who cheated, the IOC would have come down on them like a sledgehammer. They have before, no?

Georgetwin
I checked your link.

Why are you debating someone with the IQ of about 70?


Georgetwin
why do you send us to those sites? I mean, really!!! Don't we get enough of those lying cowardice fools here?

Despite..
the overwhelming odds, biased scoring, cheating and the medias disgusting butt kissing of China, the US women did us all very proud. At one point Shawn Johnson was on the balance beam and had one bobble and one step on the landing and i believe she rec'd approx a 15.1. The Chinese gymnast had the same start value, had numerous bobbles and also took a step on the landing yet rec'd approx a 15.4. I'm no expert, but it seemed pretty obivious to me there were biased judges. But then again, this isn't the first time gymnastics has given itself a black eye. Oh yeah! This shouldn't be Dems vs Rep. It should be about fair play and honesty

Well, DUH!!!
Wholesale cheating by a Communist country at the Olympics.

Biased judging towards the same commies.

What else is new?

Any wonder I don't watch any of that drivel?

Excellent as usual--
An A+ to Michelle on this column. Who can trust the Chicoms? I heard that their national anthem is "March of the Volunteers". Volunteers? Yeah right, and I can bench press 2000 Pounds. No way.

Akagi
seems to me all you ever do is come on and spew out talking points for “commie” totalitarian dictatorships, or any country that is what the US is not. Why is that?
If you actually live here, and you think we are so bad because we are different than them why not try living in China or Cuba or Canada (socialist wannabe’s) for that matter if you think they have it so good.
I am not asking in a deragurtory manner, just curious.

P.S. Conservatives, I think ranger29 would like us to believe he is also a helo pilot (bell ranger) even tho all he has flow is the wal mart special.
I have located one he can fly but probably would still crash.
http://laura.moncur.org/photos/RealHelicopters.jpg

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YLG
I think you missed my point. I am not going to pretend that the IOC is a beacon of virtue in fairly administering the olympics. They never have been. I just made the point that China gains nothing by allowing less experienced and less skilled children to compete.

Charles, since you pretend to be so knowledgeable about gymnastics, perhaps you can explain what benefit China gets by using less experienced and less skilled children to compete. Again, can you provide me with the name of any 8 year old US gymnast who is better than any current member of the US Olympic Team?

A New Cold War ...
... not really but it does remind me when the German women looked and sounded like the Gov. of CA and the Russians cheated at every turn with their non-professional Red Army Teams.

Ah the good ol' days!

georgetwinkie
-or saying that georgetwin is so fat his gut has a congressman.

hey tr, long time no read your drivel.
So which congressman is in you?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Ever the twit en?

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What do you expect from Malkin?
Not only does she insult more than a billion people, she accuses them of cheating. Are we really serious? This story is only a big deal because the US screwed up and lost to China. How can we all be sore losers? If there was a 10 year old male playing on the China's men basketball team that the US obliterated, no one would care and it would be a none story. But we lost!! So we must whine.

Ind Observer
explain what benefit China gets by using less experienced and less skilled children to compete.

What makes you think they are less skilled?

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just woke up in china
market is flat and all the sour grapes on this board are still bashing china, don't you guys have a job to do? or you're just sucking working people's blood living on welfare. hate china so much, what's going on? did russia just invade georgia, or china; were bin laden and bunch crazy people from suadi arabia behind 911, or china; did japan bomb pearl harbour, or china.... wow, i wonder.

max power,
lied about resident? i am in china right now to see the olympics. but i own property in virgina, have va driver license, paid tons of taxes to va government, to the us government, work so hard everyday that union member like you can live without working, or millions of illegal immigrants can have free everything.

as to the topic of cheating in sports, again, for a country whose sports culture produced tanya harding who's by far the lowest "athlete" in modern history to claim moral high ground in sports is laughable. it's like hitler, appointing himself the human rights police chief, accusing stalin of genocide. so you china haters/bashers, you have to work hard, get some facts (i mean real facts)... next


You're surprised the Chinese cheated?
Is any surprised, if this turns out to be true?

China is a Communist dictatorship, and the Olympics are a farce, with all due respect to the athletes, who really do try to achieve the best.

So the Chinese might have underage girls on their gymnastic team, so what? NBA and MLB players can play on our teams. Unscrupulous athletes dope, sometimes at the behest of unscrupulous governments. Some extreme sports are going to be added for the next Olympics, while baseball is being dropped.

The whole thing is a circus, hardly worth the time invested.

C'mon, Michele, you can find more important things to write about.

Obama delenda est.


Ind Observer
1. I am not a gymnastics expert. I don't even watch it. But I do follow the news coverage.

2. You are the only person who has mentioned 8-year olds. The issue is 14 and 15 year olds versus the Olympic minimum age of 16.

3. The reported advantage is significantly lower weight, smaller height, and perhaps other issues related to maturation that are much more significant than an additional year or two of experience.

Perhaps we should allow child gymnasts to compete with adults but require them to carry some additional weight, much like horses.

Frankly, I don't care at all about the Olympics or gymnastics, but your 8 year old comment was so absurd that it demanded a response.

Charles Martel and Doc
First to be accurate China is neither communist nor totalitarian.

Charles Martel:

"seems to me all you ever do is come on and spew out talking points for “commie” totalitarian dictatorships, or any country that is what the US is not."

Show me how I do that. What I am though is fair. Too many people who know nothing of China and couldn't find say Anhui or Heilongjiang on a map to save their lives post things that are simply untrue in regards to China and I simply point that out. Telling the truth is not defending a regime, it is telling the truth nor have I ever said the US is particularly bad. I just reject the Jingonistic cheerleading that goes on here.

Doc:

China is nothing like Nazi Germany. See above paragraph--comments like yours are a textbook example of people who know nothing about China posting things that make them simply look idiotic. It is no different than those who compare the CSA to the Nazis or George Bush to the Nazis--it is all stupid.


Ind Observer
I don't see how you can claim to know the Chinese girls were less experienced or less skilled than their American counterparts. There is no way to know how long they train each week, or when they started training for gymnastics.

And my point has to do with RULES, and breaking them, not whether or not younger girls were competing.

China
"China is a Communist dictatorship, and the Olympics are a farce."

China is not communist nor really a dictatorship the way the term is usually used unless you want to claim that Chiang Ching Kuo was a dictator too. Hu is not Stalin or Hitler or Mao.

The Olympics is a farce though. Taiwan lost to China in baseball (I don't watch but do keep up with the scores). 1-2 now and now has Cuba next. I think that is doomville now. Cuba has been far less impressive. Beat Japan by only 2 runs and the Americans by 1 run in extra innings. Perhaps there is hope for the ROK or Japan or even the US to get the Gold when I would have thought Cuba would be the lock.


Cheating Chinese
I knew before the games even began that there would be controveries and that they would be ignored. What I don't understand is why a country that represses religion, executes people willy nilly, and suppresses the freedom of its people, to say nothing of its filthy environment, was nominated to have the games. There must have been many other countries with better human rights records and cleaner enviroments to choose from. Can you imagine if any of these conditions and controversies had been in the US? They would not have been tolerated. Why is everyone willing to overlook the obvious fraud committed by China? They couldn't even be honest about the opening ceremony!

independent
So we must whine?

The piece is about them cheating, not who won. To bad the only way they could win evidently, because they sure took that route.
So like a lib to say it’s ok to not play by the rules.
Did you vote for Carson?
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Akagi writes:
China is nothing like Nazi Germany. See above paragraph--comments like yours are a textbook example of people who know nothing about China posting things that make them simply look idiotic. It is no different than those who compare the CSA to the Nazis or George Bush to the Nazis--it is all stupid.

I'm sure that the people in Chinese prisons for protesting government policies, practicing their religion, expressing a desire for more rights, would agree with you.

max power #57
"As in "Y" do you hate your country so much?"

i don't hate your country my country his country or any country. i am trying to enjoy the game here. good question though, just you may want to direct it to your next president hussein obama because he attended the GD america church for 20 years or his ivy league educated wife because she's never proud of america until her husband's running for the highest office.

or get a real job in addition to your part time china bashing job would you?

Hey Y
Listen retard. I'm no union member, nor do I sit around and do nothing.

You're nothing but a lousy America hater. The fact that you think Tanya Harding excuses China's abysmal behavior makes you one of the dumbest fools that's ever posted here. And the last time I checked, Tanya Harding lost everything and now her only means of making a living is to appear on shows that portray her for what she is, a complete waste.

But China? What do you think happened there? That girl broke the rules, with HER GOVERMENT'S BLESSING. China (and you apparently) are morally bankrupt while America punishes it's olympic athletes that step out of line.

So why don't you wiggle your little child-birthing hips back to China and make some more defective rubber dog poop.

Loser...


Also Y
I don't know where you get the idea that I support Oblama, but it's another indicator of how delusional you are.

I don't hate China, just most of the things it does.

So remove head from buttocks THEN post. You might not sound like such a complete tool.

Akagi
Subject: Charles Martel and Doc
First to be accurate China is neither communist nor totalitarian.

No? Is it the land of the free and home of the brave? I don't have to know the capitial of China to know they are comminuist. No matter what you think.
China is nothing like Nazi Germany? No they have more Hitler’s in charge. I guess it’s ok with you that the government kills its prisoners in record numbers to sell there organs then?

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Lumberjack7392
I'm sure that the people in Chinese prisons for protesting government policies, practicing their religion, expressing a desire for more rights, would agree with you.

That would be a first, if you do not count the trolls from here that is.

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Doc. writes:
Subject: Lumberjack7392
I'm sure that the people in Chinese prisons for protesting government policies, practicing their religion, expressing a desire for more rights, would agree with you.

That would be a first, if you do not count the trolls from here that is.

I was being sarcastic or ironic with that statement.

IF MCCAIN PICKS A PRO-ABOTION
VEEP...

I WILL VOTE FOR CHUCK BALDWIN!

YOU HEAR ME JOHNNY-BOY?

Ssgt-Lolo
Just to give you a laugh.

Ssgt, that Loon isn't all that far from you.

georgetwinkie
doc
how is your hunter/tancredo ticket looking?

Well twinkietoes, not so much. We have got stuck with McCain, but at least Republicans are not standing up and cheering when he blows his nose. What does that say for your side with Obambi? That is about all the sense your side has.

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Baldwin
Not that it has anything to do with this discussion, but Baldwin is nothing more than a born-again religious zealot, the last thing the conservative movement needs. His type are one-issue candidates, and would support every liberal program in the books in exchange for support on the abortion issue.

troll alert
seems like tr has found another identity. He still lacks comprehension skills but he still blathers on about things he will never understand

Charles
1. I am not a gymnastics expert either, but unlike you I have watched quite a bit of it.

2. If you read the article, you must have terrible reading comprehension. Please read paragraph one. Okay Charles, since you say you know nothing about gymnastics but are criticizing me, can you name a 14 year old US gymnast that is better than any member on the US team?

3. Reported advantage? Reported by whom? You have already stated you know nothing about gymnastics. You criticize me for disagreeing with you even though you know absolutely nothing about the topic. You sound just like a liberal. If you are not a liberal, go read the article, (especially the first paragraph) then do some research and explain why gymnasts lose their abilities between ages 14 and 16.

Lumberjack7392
I was being sarcastic or ironic with that statement.

Yea, me too. I hope you do not think that I believe Akagi is anything other than a useful tool of the left.

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Regal Lion
YOU HEAR ME JOHNNY-BOY?

That’s all I am waiting on (VP choice) to decide.
McCain, you had better pick well grasshopper.

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Chinese culture is different from ours
It looks like the Chinese are happy to achieve "victory" by any means necessary. What they do not realize or care is that they destroy the value of victory by cheating.

oympics
We all know the Chinese are a sneaky bunch but God we can't hurt their feelings.Its like insulting Islam and we all know what great suicide bombers they make.

Can anyone here tell me ...
the national parentage of the Olympic gymnastics star of last evening? I thought someone said they came from Russia. And, I know you all heard that the coach of the silver medalist winner, Sean Johnson (sp?) is from Communist China, now living and doing so very well in the free United States? He seemed to have tears of pride for his protoge' and that he could show his former country that he had succeeded beyond his dreams in freedom.

I just happened to still be up when that competition came on and I have to admit, I had tears in my eyes from hearing our national anthem played. Yes, I could tell our athletes wanted to sing, but barely mouthed the words.

By the way, Mrs. Paddy, you probably heard that the boys on the farms in China are known to be kidnapping females from other areas because there are no longer enough girls to go around.
My, my, what to do with all this work and the need for sons to inherit the property? Might we call this "unintended consequences"?

Thanks, Michelle, for another winner!

troll alert
left off that it seems that tr is now georgetwinkie

Y sayz:
so your master paid you what $5 an hour, that's less than obama's proposed minimum wage. you deserve that though, union member.

Speaking from experience?

Hey Max, aren’t the Unions –for- Obambi? Don’t tell Y tho, she already seems lost enough.

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Max Power
The more trolls that show up, the dumber they get.

Dave 2
TR is a Gutless, Lying, Momma's Boy, Drunk of a Liberal Coward under ANY name.

LJ
"I'm sure that the people in Chinese prisons for protesting government policies, practicing their religion, expressing a desire for more rights, would agree with you."

The 15,000 or so may not. But if they were doing what they were doing to get in jail when Mao was running the place they wouldn't be alive to complain. Most dissidents do manage to survive. That wouldn't be the case with Mao or Hitler or Stalin or even during the white terror under Chiang in Taiwan. Oh and most prisoners are in prison in China for doing bad things just like most people in US prisons are. While I may not agree that shooting them and harvesting the organs is exactly humane, these aren't exactly angels either.

Oh and Anhui and Heilongjiang are provinces. The capital is Beijing--which you no doubt knew--and except for the few decades of the ROC in Nanjing and the wartime capital of Chongqing, has been since the Yuan dynasty.

Akagi
China is not communist? China is not a brutal totalitarian regime?

You are talking about a country that:
...killed somewhere between 500 and 2,000 people who were peacably demonstrating against the totalitarina regime.

...denies that said event occured, and punishes internal media personnel who acknowledge the massacre.

...forces religions to register with the State, and denies the registration of religions that preach anything but the greatness of Maoist and Xiaopingist socialism. (Ask the Falun Gong about religious freedom in China.)

...bans people from forming parties other than the CPC (Communist Party of China) and imprisons those who do.

...has established a "one-child" policy that results in the FORCED abortion (no choice here) of countless children, particularly those of families that are not sufficiently allied with the Party.

...has threatened time and again to annex, by force, if necessary, a soveriegn nation (which nation China has bullied the rest of the world into not recognizing) that it calls a "breakaway province." (Which, in actual historical fact, was the last refuge of the internationally recognized, legitimate, non-communist, Nationalist government headed by Chang Kai Shek (sp?). The rest of China broke from Taiwan, not the other way around.)

If you want to see China's philosophy on human and civil rights, look up their constitution and read article 51.

They have loosened their controls on production only because they were smart enough to see that Soviet-style communism is an unmitigated economic disaster, and their own policies during the "Great Leap Forward" were even worse.

YLG posted...
"I don't see how you can claim to know the Chinese girls were less experienced or less skilled than their American counterparts"

I don't know either exactly. Maybe the fact that the americans took gold and silver last night might give you a clue though.

Shawn Johnson, the silver medalist, is 16. Do you really think she was a better gymnast two years ago? If so, I guess all of the training and experience she has gained since then have been a complete waste of time.

I understand that being older can eventually become a problem. I can't do some of the gymnastic moves I could do over 30 years ago. However, I don't know any gymnasts competing in the olympics who are 50+.

YLG
Maybe Robert the Coward misunderstood and thought he was getting STRANGER! Wal-Mart Airborne Vehicles, Keeping Wonder Woman properly inflated, delusions of grandeur. Robert IS NOT the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Doc
"Yea, me too. I hope you do not think that I believe Akagi is anything other than a useful tool of the left."

The left would not be anymore happy with me than the right actually.

It's the coverage by NBC that gagged me!
I agree that the members of the Chinese team are not all 16 or about to be 16. I was physically a wisp of a kid all of my life and trained in gymnastics from the time I was about 8 or 9 years old. However, as thin as I was, this did not hide my maturing face, hands, and hips when I reached 12 or 13 years of age. The differences were subtle but obvious. As well, for the poster who stated that the older girls would be ashamed of being outdone by a 10-13 year old if they were on a schoolyard is all wet. Any woman/mother knows that very young girls are "rubbery" until they reach puberty!

However, regardless of this issue, Tibet, human rights, fake fireworks, et al, I simply could not stand the puking, "politically correct" crap that NBC shoved down our throats on last nights (Thurs) broadcast of the "womens" gymnastics. I tuned in for the first time just for the sheer joy of watching everyone perform. The filler "human interest" stories were poorly disguised feel-good propaganda and nothing more. Worse, the commentary by non-althletic talking heads made me finally record the program so I could skip over their crud. The Olympics are no longer about sports; they are a platform for pablum spewers. AND--- in case these idiots don't yet realize it, the athlete performs for himself first. The U.S., China, or any other country doesn't win the medal--- the athlete does!

MerriColin
MSM personnel wear Velcro Ankle Wraps so they can grab their ankles at the first sign of a Communist Dictator.

Jake
"You are talking about a country that:

...killed somewhere between 500 and 2,000 people who were peacably demonstrating against the totalitarina regime."

And how many died during the 2-28 incident? How many people died during white terror? China doesn't claim the 6-4 didn't take place. They just have never released the death toll nor do they allow it to be commerated, but that was true of 2-28 until the early 1990s--some forty years later.

"...bans people from forming parties other than the CPC (Communist Party of China) and imprisons those who do."

Until 1987, political parties except the KMT and two smaller KMT supported parties were banned. Anti-government activity lead to arrest and imprisonment often on Green Island. This included those in party building activity that would lead to the formation of the DPP in 1986. The KMT also had anti-government activists murdered and this was as late as the 1980s.

"...has threatened time and again to annex, by force, if necessary, a soveriegn nation (which nation China has bullied the rest of the world into not recognizing) that it calls a "breakaway province." (Which, in actual historical fact, was the last refuge of the internationally recognized, legitimate, non-communist, Nationalist government headed by Chang Kai Shek (sp?). The rest of China broke from Taiwan, not the other way around.)"

Chiang had no more rightful claim on Taiwan that did Mao or Hu to this day.

The above didn't make Taiwan under Chiang and his son communist did it or totalitarian? Taiwan in the 1970s was not much different than China is today.

China is authoritarian, but not communist or totalitarian.


Akagi
The left would not be anymore happy with me than the right actually.

So you say whilst defending China’s government. As for me I started a saying on here and it goes like this, if it types like a lib, it must be a lib.
I started that with wobbie and doofus who claim to be moderates.


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Hey Georgetwin! Check out
the following link:
http://www.forbes.com/2008/08/04/economy-ohio-michigan-biz _cx_jz_0805dying_slide_5.html?thisSpeed=15000

Scranton PA which is the residence of a certain LTC USAF (Ret,), who posts his mindless drivel on TH, is among the top ten dying cities in the USA according to Forbes Magazine. I wonder if the Democrats run this city. Naw that couldn't happen. It's got to be those nasty conservatives. I wonder why that certain LTC USAF (Ret.) hasn't used his vast experience
as outlined in his BIO to help turn things arround.

Doc
"So you say whilst defending China’s government."

I am not defending them. I do though demand accuracy and what most people here post about China on a subject they have no clue about isn't accurate and when they do that I call them on it. If you wish to claim I am a liberal, great, if it makes you feel better think that all you want.

Akagi
On Chiang not having a rightful claim to Taiwan: That simply goes more to my point that China has threatened a soveriegn nation with forcible annexation and bullied the rest of the world into not recognizing said soveriegn nation. I never said Chiang was a saint or that his regime was particularly good. I simply said it was not communist.

The fact that China is communist (which is as much an economic principle as it is a political one) has very little to do with it being either authoritarian or totalitarian. Most communist countries are dictatorships, but only some dictatorships are communist, or even leftist.

Please explain the difference between "Authoritarian" and "Totalitarian," and why "authoritarian" isn't quite so bad.

Jake
"Please explain the difference between "Authoritarian" and "Totalitarian," and why "authoritarian" isn't quite so bad."

In an authoritarian regime there is a much larger degree of personal freedom and thus such a regime is freer. Look at China today and look at it in 1978--the freedoms Chinese enjoy today are miles and miles away from where they were in 1978 when China was indeed a totalitarian state. Today China is much like Taiwan was under the KMT before Chiang began the political reforms in 1987.

Akagi
My post was never intended as a defense of Taiwan or Chiang Kai Shek, except to note that they are a soveriegn nation. You can bring up their misdeeds all you want, but compare them with Mao's "Great Leap Forward" at roughly the same time as the incidents you mention. How many people died then?

Akagi
China's reforms since 1978 (under Deng Xiaoping, himself not a particularly savory character) were purely economic. The CPC understood then (as it still does) that total economic control by the government will cause severe problems and eventually will cause that government to lose control. They decided to give up some control over the economy and allow the people to run businesses and the like, but still maintain strict control over the media, religion, dissent, politics, and emigration. No, China is not as bad as North Korea or Iran as dictatorships go. But it is still nowhere near a "free" country. And the "Big Brother" lengths to which China will go to fabricate its reputation have been matched only by the Soviet Union.

The lip-synching incident is a prime example. In a nation 4 times as big as ours, they couldn't find a child that was sufficiently "cute" and a sufficiently good singer to properly show the majesty of the Chinese people and Mao-ist/Deng-ist communism?

Mao
Well a good amount of the numbers who died during the Great Leap Forward was during the San Nian Da Jihuang--the great Chinese famine. Which was caused by crop failures, stupid policies and gross mismanagement--not intentional murder.

I guess to compare--we'd have to see how many Chiang killed as leader of the KMT in China or compare a percentage of the population of Taiwan during Chiang's rule (1945-1975) who died to Mao's (1949-1976) in China and see which was greater. Pure numbers don't give us this since lots easier to kill millions of mainlanders since you have millions and millions more than in Taiwan.

But in any event, while Mao's China was totalitarian, it isn't now just as Chiang's wasn't. For example, Freezing Point (bingdian) would never have even been allowed to operate under Mao--if it tried its leaders would have been arrested, perhaps even killed.

It did get closed down for a very brief point in 2006, but it was allowed to reopen. That didn't even happen in Taiwan in the 1970s--see what happened to Formosa Magazine back in 1979. If this had been under Mao--they editors would have been killed. Thus, more freedom of speech in China today, more freedom of the press, more personal freedom in many other ways. Which is ignored by people who've never even heard of Bingdian.




Jake
I'd never claim China was a free country. What I am saying is it is neither communist--stroll around Shanghai or Shenzhen sometime or even Chengdu as far as that goes--or totalitarian.

It is not Maoist China or Stalin's USSR. It is more in common with Chiang's ROC or Rhee's ROK.

Read it again


Max Power Location: PA
Reply # 96
Date: Aug 15, 2008 - 12:23 PM EST
jim

Go read what I said again.

I didn’t approve of rule breaking, just lovely talented young ladies.


impeachbush
it seems as usual you failed reading comprehension in the the two years you spent in the first grade. The article is about the chinese cheating at the olympics.

But as usual you need to drag in your hatred of bush rather than stay on topic.

But just in case you have failed to notice the comments directed your way, we already fully understand your hatred and your total stupidity.

But if you can't stay on the topic of the thread just crawl back under your rock and stfu

Don't be so sure
Sure the chicoms would cheat, but lying about age isn't the only way. There are ways to delay puberty also, which would give the advantage of extra training time without the problems that puberty causes for girl/women athletes. Would they risk the health problems for the girls later??? Just kidding.

Cheaters
Yes I believe that the Chinese cheated by using older athletes, but it makes me feel a little better when I think of the basketball game between China and U.S, though their team was not to bad it was no match for our NBA super stars who made them look like high school kids just learning the game.

And this matters somehow?
Are there people who actually still watch the olympic games?

Get a life folks. Commies aren't cool, the IOC is commie friendly, you think they're going to do anything? say anything?

Harping on this is about as useful as a congressional inquiry into steroid usage by professional baseball players...well, at least harping on this is legal (as opposed to the enumerated power giving congress the right to oversight in matters of professional sports).

ron jones
explain what is wrong with watching the coverage of fellow americans while they compete. I am not much of a sports person but I enjoy seeing americans on the top of the podium looking very proud while the national anthem plays.

go usa

BlackBird
LMAO! (HIC!) SAVE that link and send it to The Wide One!

ImpeachBush
Is another Liberal example of better life through intoxication.

Beijing 2008 v. Berlin 1936: You Decide
Right on Michelle!

These issues reek more than Beijing's pollution. Germany used the 8th Olympiad in 1936 to show the world the superiority of the Master Race, and now China is showing the inscrutable "smiley-face" that the West never allowed the Soviet Union to get away with.

ioc limp wrist
just another example of the ioc's lack of credibility

ioc-its head is where the sun don't shin
just another example of the ioc's lack of credibility

The real cheating nation, the very USA
For several decades now, America has enriched that nation as if was the most Godly nation on earth, while ever so happily and eager having especially Wal Mart, the monster company Soviet style, funneling to America every other cheap product, produced by slave labor, where thousands of little girls worked and maybe still do, their tails off for no more than pittances, hardly to pay for a simple meal.

If this is not making America the most cheating nation on earth when put against the principles it was founded upon some 230 years ago? Yes, Christmas Celebration, which is supposedly in honor of the birth of Jesus, is ever more needing this Communist nation, the persecuting of Christians nation, to provide ever more cheap toys to in truth make in the end, our own children more and more materialistic, every time Christmas comes around.

So lady Michel, fire up another article and tell the real truth about America itself, which would go a long way to cure Communist China, if that was ever possible? Otherwise you, yourself help America to continue to cheat the Founding Fathers.
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