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Wednesday, May 02, 2007
Michelle Malkin :: Townhall.com Columnist
A Lesson in Open-Borders Math
by Michelle Malkin
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The New York Times is always ready and willing to serve as lead public relations staffers for the open-borders movement. On May Day, the day of mass illegal alien protests across the country, the paper saw fit to print a front-page sob story decrying rising illegal alien deportations.

"Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials, facing intense political pressure to toughen enforcement [read: do their jobs], removed 221,664 illegal immigrants from the country over the last year," the Times reported ominously. That's "an increase of more than 37,000 -- about 20 percent -- over the year before, according to the agency's tally."

221,664. Big number. It certainly sounds like we're getting serious about immigration enforcement, if you believe what the Times tells you.

But you know better than that. It's what the paper didn't tell you on the day of the pro-amnesty demonstrations that provides the truly alarming news. Far from a nation that takes its immigration laws seriously, we remain in a shoddy, dangerous state of immigration non-enforcement nearly six years after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks -- chaos that will only worsen if Congress and the White House join hands on a "comprehensive" illegal alien amnesty plan.

In March, the Homeland Security Department's inspector general disclosed that the feds have lost track of 623,292 fugitive illegal aliens. These "absconders" were apprehended by immigration officers, placed in the immigration court system, ordered out of the country and released. Never to be seen again.

221,664 "removed" illegal aliens vs. 623,292 released illegal alien fugitives.

In other words: There are nearly three times as many officially designated illegal alien fugitives freed by the feds as there are illegal aliens who have been removed over the last year.

This inconvenient truth was glossed over by the Times.

So was this: Despite more than $204 million earmarked since 2003 for 52 special fugitive operations teams across the country, the "backlog of fugitive alien cases has increased each fiscal year since the [fugitive apprehension] program was established in February 2002."

While pro-amnesty marchers stressed this week that they are "law-abiding" (except for those pesky immigration rules), more and more of the illegal aliens caught by immigration authorities and ordered to appear for deportation hearings are skipping out. The DHS inspector general's office explains that thousands of illegal aliens ignore orders to appear at their immigration hearings. Of the 460,000-plus immigration judge decisions and administrative closures issued by the Executive Office of Immigration and Review (EOIR) between 2001-2004, 39 percent (181,807) were issued to illegal aliens who had been released but later failed to appear at their respective immigration hearings.

And the total number of aliens failing to appear is increasing. In fact, according to DHS's Detention and Removal Office, 85 percent of the illegal aliens released that have been issued final orders of removal will abscond. That goes not just for illegal aliens from Mexico, but for illegal aliens from terror-friendly and terror-sponsoring nations. Homeland security? What homeland security?

Compounding the danger: The federal Detention and Removal Office estimates that in 2007, "there will be 605,000 foreign-born individuals admitted to state correctional facilities and local jails during the year for committing crimes in the U.S. Of this number, DRO estimates half (302,500) will be removable aliens. Currently, most of these incarcerated aliens are being released into the U.S. at the conclusion of their respective sentences due to the lack of DRO resources." That's upwards of 300,000 convicted criminal aliens who will walk out of their cells and onto the streets. Never to be seen again.

Just doing the context-setting and number-crunching the rest of the mainstream media won't do. Now, back to your regularly scheduled, emotion-driven, one-sided coverage of America the Oppressor. Over to you, New York Times.

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About The Author

Michelle Malkin makes news and waves with a unique combination of investigative journalism and incisive commentary. She is the author of Unhinged: Exposing Liberals Gone Wild .

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I like Savage's idea
why not outsource the imprisonment of criminal illegal aliens to China or Russia? They can do it for cheaper, and when they do get out of the slammer, they'll be begging to go back to Mexico. Heck, they'll swim across the Pacific.

Better yet
send'em all down to Joe Arpiao's bed and breakfast. WHen they're done with the sentence, it's only a 2 hour drive on a non- air conditioned bus and punt'em back across the border.

Again...
..let's put a

"Illegal Alien-Free Zone"

sign at the border and see how effective it is.

Criminals
"300,000 convicted criminal aliens who will walk out of their cells and onto the streets. Never to be seen again."

Oh, they will be seen again by their victims when they recommit whatever crime they were locked up for to begin with. So another murder, rape, child sexual abuse crime will just be another statistic we won't hear about. Instead we'll hear the usual rhetoric about how these illegals just want a job.

http://www.numbersusa.com
Go and fax your reps today about this illegal alien issue.

Oppressor

Quoth Michelle: "Now, back to your regularly scheduled, emotion-driven, one-sided coverage of America the Oppressor."
*****
Shame on us for feeling the way we do, after all, we're only legal American tax payin' citizens that foot the bill, so who cares?

*****
Dangerous Dave writes: "Better yet send'em all down to Joe Arpiao's bed and breakfast."
*****
They'll love his PINK decor.





Peppermint
You got it right the first time.

In Orange County CA at least 20% of the inmates of the County Jail are illegals.

Why we don't parachute these folks into Mexico City is beyond me. That has to be cheaper than housing them here.

Our government has failed to do it's primary duty. Protection of the homeland. I'd vote to parachute the entire Congress, both Houses, in with them.

Look at the Oath of Office
Our first Mexican el Presidente twice swore: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." The job requires that the president enforce (execute) the laws. Yet, among many others, immigration laws are not effectively enforced. Sure would seem to be a violation of the oath of office. Bush is an obvious reason that impeachment and removal needs to be made much easier. A simple majority vote in the Senate ought to be enough to send such a malefactor home where he could do much less damage. This is not just a problem with the current administration. There is not a single president in my lifetime, and I go back to the days of that little socialist Harry Truman, who should not have been impeached, and with the possible exception of Eisenhower, removed. Calvin Coolidge was probably the last president to take the oath of office seriously.

I can't think of
a single politician who is upholding the oath he/she took to protect us from invasion. That is the government's only true job according to the Constitution. But do we see them obeying that oath?
No. So they all need to be driven out of office, the sooner the better.

BigBelly
LOL!

This is Sick
What in the name of all that is holy is wrong with our elected officials? Do they have a collective death wish? There is no way we are going to be able to deal with this problem now. We've let the cancer spread to every cell in our nation's body.

One of these days, our friends to the south are going to come with guns -- heck, the gangs in Los Angeles are better-armed, and more populous, than the police. Best be prepared, 'cause you can't count on our government to help.

Dangerous Dave: Keep on, man!

Another Idea
How about we give them 90 days to GTF out of this Country...and after that we make our own little posses to start reporting them. They aren't hard to find.

The idea that they and some of our own citizens protested for immigration rights makes me sick...they have none unless they are here by "nonlegal" means to quote a sympathizer. I they are here legally they have all the damn rights they need.

Illegal invasion
Citizens of the world-come 1 and all.Our govenment will give away our country.Take anything you want.You can -lie-cheat-steal-rob-kill-drive drunk-rape-use someone elses identy -selldrugs to obtain your desires.Nothing will withheld from you.You will be rewarded handsomely for you criminal activies.Our government and big business is so money hungry ,cheap labor is their way..Sacrifice Americans for money.

THEY WILL BE SEEN AGAIN
Sitting for mug shots when they are apprehended while committing their next crime.
Only to be let go.
How fitting these 'immigration activists' chose May 1 to hold their protests. That goes hand and hand with the way this country is drifting.
Unable to post yesterday for Buchannan's column, I read with mixed amusement and anger about 'red meat racism' and people having the natural right to 'live and work anywhere they want.'
This is a nation, not a Six Flags Park as I have heard Ann Coulter remark. If that were the case then why don't we just let the whole immigration miasma go by the wayside and let everyone come here.
It sure seems like we are doing that right now.
We have a right to set standards as to who and who can't come here. This is one of the inalienable rights that I read about yesterday.This along with the fact that we have the right not to allow our suburbs turn into turn of the century ghettoes with 25 people living in a two bedroom house and using the front and back yards as garbage dumps. People who are homeowners living across the street and next to stys like this have the inalienable right not to be subjected to this.
Another one I heard yesterday is how illegals bring more to this country than they take out.
Sure, tell that to the overtaxed citizens watching their tax dollars go into bilingual programs and free health and social service programs that benefit people who have no right being here. I have heard the argument that illegals pay taxes in the form of 'rents.'
Great. I'll tell that to the IRS next April.
It was quoted yesterday that illegals come here to do our 'dirty work.' As Lou Dobbs put it,"Americans will do dirty work but they won't do it for slave wages."
You want the real lowdown on how people feel about this amnesty program? Speak to a naturalized US citizen and ask them what they think about it. You won't be surprised to hear how angry they are that they fulfilled all the INS requirements for nothing and if they saw this coming, they never would have bothered to adhere to the rules.
Red meat racism. Dirty work. And yet they still come by the hundreds of thousands illegally to live and work in this dirty, racist land of ours.

Incentives
Illegals come here because it is more desireable than the place where they belong. They also come here because they can make it across our porous borders. The most effective way to remove them is to make it less desireable to be here than it is to stay home. That would mean absolutley no benefits of any sort at any time. That may sound harsh to the liberals but is it any more harsh than confiscating the tax dollars of hard-working Americans and providing aid and comfort to law-breakers?

Another tack would be to make it undesireable for employers to hire illegals. The government has demonstrated that they can't keep track of their own posterior with both hands but I'd bet the private sector can come up with a method for keeping track of legal and illegal immigrants. We ought to give them 6 months to come up with and implement just a program. And then any employer who hires an illegal runs the risk of having his entire company confiscated and sold at auction to pay for the costs of dealing with the illegals. The problem of illegals would disappear faster than a Chuckie Schumer could get to a microphone.

here legally, gone tomorrow
I know a couple that came to this country legally, has paid heavy fees in trying to obey our laws. They now aren't allowed to cross the northern border to visit relatives because they may not be allowed back into the country because of some mistake they made in filling out some form. They have decided to leave our country and go back home, rather than pay all the fees and go through all the hassle. This is the second couple that this has happened to in our area. If you are white and try to obey the law, the government will make your life miserable and maybe even deport you. I believe we will see the day when the jihadist are dancing in, on and around the White House.

Open borders
Michelle, I can't agree with you more.I loved how you handled that BIGOT and scumbag on Fox News a while back....keep it up!!!! Grandmaster Ro Wa-Ken Tal Kung-Fu 5 Forms

And another thing...
Let's give all legal and naturalized citizens a rebate for all the expense of doing things by the book- It's only "fair"....

How Dumb Are Our Judges?
They release an ILLEGAL on his own recognizance and promise to show up for deportation hearings.

That isn't just stupidity...It is insanity.

I still maintain
that this will not stop until we start putting CEOs of companies who knowingly hire these people in jail. The jobs will dry up if the CEOs meet Bubba the Inmate. If the jobs dry up they will go home.

Also need to get rid of the anchor baby scam. Delivering a baby is NOT a life threatening procedure in most cases and is therefore not subject to the "Emergency Room Rules".

Note: It is already illegal in most States for illegals to get welfair.

Open House for Illegal Immigrants
at the humble Kennedy hacienda in Hyannisport, MA.; Teddy proclaims - come 1 & all, we've got tents, sleeping bags, nearby taco-bell, mariachis every Friday night...plenty of Chivas, doughnuts, tequila & dos equis, bring all the kids & extended families & spend your summer with us frolicing in warm Cape Cod sun...asta la victoria; welcome my amigos to the peoples rebublic of moonbat-a-chusetts. Voter registration cards will be provided at the main gate...you'd be loco not to come!

America's Future

These next 2 years are vital to the future of this country. For 2007 we must make certain that McCain/Kennedy or whatever it's called this year does not pass the House. It will pass the Senate. The President will sign it, followed by the Totalization Treaty with Mexico, which qualifies former illegals with just 6 qtrs(18 mo) even if worked illegally, the benefits that we had to work 40 qtrs(10 yrs) to qualify for.

In 2008 we must make the candidates address border security and immigration enforcement.
20-30 million citizens of other countries are in our country illegally, 55% from Mexico, most of the rest from other Central and South American countries. Let's not ignore the leftward voting trends of these countries. It is notable that they picked May Day, an old communist day of celebration for their marches.

Most polls show at least half of the American citizens of Hispanic descent want the borders and laws enforced. Republicans will not win by alienating their current voters to get 40% of a new small block that will grow very large, very fast if amnesty is granted. That will grow the Democrats vote larger and faster as the influx increases exponentially as the result of another amnesty. It will spell the end of the Republican Party. The people who used to vote Republican will stop voting or form a new party. Conservatives will lose political influence and we will slide inexorably towards socialism (it has already started).

Most of what you hear about this issue is political propaganda that tries to convince you to give up your country without a fight, including on Fox News. The big money players are all on board the cheap labor express, they care not that American citizens do not want another amnesty. We know the last one resulted in 10 times the number of illegal aliens and a general disregard of our laws. The next one will be equally successful.

We need Comprehensive Immigration Enforcement, not reform. We need to restore respect for the law and the faith of the American people that their government is not selling them out. Amnesty for the illegal aliens is also amnesty for the corrupt companies who have been employing them. Money trumps everything, including love of country. Multi-nationals have no loyalty to country by definition, they see us as a market, not a nation. They see people as workers, documented or undocumented, no difference. If they can't send the work to where the labor is cheaper, then they want to bring the cheap labor here. Citizenship is meaningless.

If we love our Constitution and our representative Republic and we intend to keep it we must not surrender our sovereignty or abandon the rule of law. Profits must not supercede security. We should not create a new path to citizenship. We have a path to citizenship, more generous than any other country, illegal aliens have ignored it and bad choices do have consequences.

Bush in Miami
Didn't the president, just the other day in a speech in Miami, mention how corporations need a source of cheap labor? I mean, he just flat out said it. On top of all the other things he's said and done regarding illegal aliens, what makes anyone think that anything will be done to stop this insanity.

Imagine if all 50 states had gun control laws. Then for real our government would run roughshod over us.

Imagine there's no countries, imagine no possessions, imagine all the people... Hey, John Lennon, Imagine my surprise when I finally realized what a dumb@ss you really were...

More consequences of Open Borders
Yesterday, the Commie agitators tried to have another massive Mayday rally in the City of Los Angeles.

Fortunately, only a fraction of the number from the big one last year showed up. Unfortunately, I think it was because the organizers from Central America had moved on to other cities, in order to spread their disease all over the United States.

The Globalists are fools if they think that the threat of Communism went away just because the Soviet Union split up.

Illegal immigration is a problem, not only because the Wet Backs are taking American jobs, crowing our cities, sucking up our resources and spreading disease.

It is a problem, not only because Islamic Terrorists might sneak across our porus borders.

It is also a problem because Anarchists and Commie agitators come across with the rest of the riff-raff, and seek destroy our way of life as much as any camel jockey.

Just because we are focused on a new enemy, it does not mean that our old foes have simply gone away. When our government does not defend our borders, it leaves our country vulnerable to all manner of attack.

Everyone who reads this blog should write to officials at every level of government, DEMANDING that the political hacks live up to their oath to protect us from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

mystic7 - "imagine" that!
The thing is, John Lennon thought he was safe in his ivory tower, so that he could imagine a world with no borders.

Well, guess, what. He wasn't safe.

I notice that most of these elitists who want a no-borders policy hide behind big iron gates.

Those of us who can't afford to live in gated communities, ride in limosines and hire armed guards, know what it is like to be vulnerable from the influx of illegals.

Jimmy Carter writes:
"Again...
..let's put a "Illegal Alien-Free Zone" sign at the border and see how effective it is."

The problem with that is, if they look down the road a ways they'll see the "Get Your Illegal Aliens Here" sign.

Okay, okay - the sign says "Home Depot". Same difference.


Lynne- broken laws
LOL!

So what if we can't round them ALL up?Round up the ones you CAN arrest!!!

It is like having a house full of mice, and refusing to get a cat because the cat can't catch them all!

What a bunch of nonsense!!!

Yesterday would have been a good opportunity to get a really big net, drop it over the crowd, and airlift them, dangling in mid air, over the border!

Here in Los Angeles, we had a bunch of Anarchists throwning cr@p at the police, trying to incite violence. Some Leftist reporters got in the way, and in good Commie style, started whining.

Somebody tell these bozos that standing in the way of the police is as stupid as a turkey who drowns because they stand in the rain with their mouth open!

Charlotte
In Charlotte there are numerous apartment complexes filled with immigrants. Each office has administration that speak Spanish. As an American citizen I had to provide background and pass a credit check before I could get an apartment. Who gets these people in with no background/credit?? I think they are rented under the employers' names. At the bus stops it is all Mexican immigrants picking up their kids. At Bank of America branches in certain areas all of the tellers are Spanish. If I speak with residents from a smaller city in New York, they say it has turned to little Mexico. It is everywhere, but since we cannot be and see everywhere, we think it is only in our city. Illegal immigrant in pervasive and getting worse.

Nee
That sounds like a good idea, but I've heard of others reporting illegal aliens to ICE and ICE told them that unless it was a truckload, they weren't going to worry about it. I couldn't believe it!

I am just so sick of this stuff. One of the constitutional functions of our federal government is to defend our borders. No, it doesn't say a darn thing about foreign aid, education, funding organizations like the IMF, World Bank, etc., but IT DOES say they are to protect our borders.

They apparently refuse to uphold their oaths of office and don't care one little bit. They have made it more than apparent that they intend to give the over 30+ illegal aliens, amnesty, while the American people are screaming NO.

I'm not sure what to do at this point, besides trying to attack illegal immigration at the state and local levels. Our federal government is not listening.

illegals
Ok , what we hear is that they come here to do low paying jobs that Americans wont do. (i dont believe that for a minute but lets continue) Lets say they give 12 million of these low wage earners ammnesty. Now they are citizens and are elligable for welfare, medical, housing foodstamps and god knows what else. How many are going to go do the low paying jobs when they can make more sitting home and getting goverenment checks? The next argument will be that we need more immegrants to do the low paying jobs. Does anyone else see a problem here?

I had to leave
I was in the US for over eight years. I had fought with immigration the whole time I was there just to get my wife a drivers license. You see, we were there legally and because we had the legal documents to allow us there, we were denied many things, including my wife from the license and working. We wanted to stay and do things the legal way, however, after paying taxes and food and rent, I still had to pay over $1000/yr to ICE so I could have the permission to work in the US. I even had my "anchor kids" there and still I could not get half of the benefits that the illegals get. So after all that time, we had to return home (Canada) and the US lost a tax paying "Non-immigrant Alien." (official status).

p.s.
Someone mentioned the business people getting over by hiring these people. I have no problem at all going after them. If we need to pay a little more for Americans to do the work I will pay more.

more illegal immigration = good economy?
Interesting article:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0502/p03s02-usec.html?page=1

Illegal immigrants caught doing illegal
acts should be deported.

I am for building 2 fences on each border,
but overall actually making it easier to
enter into the U.S. and other countries.

Many of my thoughts are posted here:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/PaulGreenberg/2007/02/27/on_fighting_the_problem

missed a word
I am for building 2 fences on each border,
but overall actually making it easier to
enter into the U.S. and other countries
LEGALLY.

To Lynne
I don't want the CEOs fined (only). I want them to do hard time with Bubba the inmate.

A Simple Solution That Would Work
We could solve the illegal immigration problem in less than a week with an invasion of Mexico and annexation of its entirety as the 51st state. Then all of these people would be citizens and could come and go as they please. And once Mexico is a state, we can get to work clearing out the political corruption that makes the U.S. Congress seem respectable by comparison and maybe even get started on cleaning up Mexico City as well.

After that, Cuba, then Canada.

Manifest Destiny was brought to a close too soon.

I suggest if you
have not already done so to flood your reps offices today with phone calls, emails and faxes stating your outrage over this problem

Yesterday I faxed everyone of my reps and told them in no uncertain terms what I thought of them not fixing this problem. I also told them that they are not upholding their oath of office and every last one of them needs to be impeached, fired, thrown out office. The faxes I sent were pointed and I told each one of them that they work for us, the tax payers, not the other way around.

According to NumberUSA and Grassfire.org our faxes and emails and phone calls are working. We have to keep the pressure on them. We need to keep as much pressure on them as these illegals are doing or we are not going to win this one.

If you have not been to http://www.numbersusa.com
you can easily go there make a user name and password and fax away free. They only ask for donations.

Also at that site you can view your reps score card on these issues. I highly recommend the site for those that are not aware of it. I got the site from someone else here at TH who posted it.

It's really great to have a place to ventilate at TH, but we need to take action also.


Am I missing something?
"the day of mass illegal alien protests across the country"

So, we had hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of illegal aliens all gathered together in cities across the nation, and we DIDN'T send the border patrol into the middle of these gatherings to arrest and deport every son of a b!tch that couldn't produce a green card? Seems to me like this would have been one hell of an opportunity to round up a sh!tload of illegal aliens and get rid of them. AND send the message that we're not going to tolerate protests like this. If you're a tax-paying American citizen, then yes, you have the right to protest the government. But those who come here illegally have no such rights!

Regards,
Trevor

WHAT???
Crossing the border – 1st crime (federal one).

Next: falsified driver’s licenses with fraudulent insurance cards,

10 million stolen SS numbers, etc.

The “penalty”? Green Card and Citizenship, so Dem Pty gets millions of voters.

Nice slide into dissolution of U.S. into NA Union.

AND THE PRESS IS SILENT!




Lynne
i know its a lie , ask anyone in the construction business (my brother is in it) How can he compete withh illegals that can be hired for $15 an hr. that was always the kind of business that a young guy could work part or full time in high school or to put themselves through collage. That work , if its not already gone soon will be.

killer
Are you krazy? The Mexicans who are in here illegally are working for slave labor. Just who is treating them badly? Do you think that the companies that hire them to work for slave labor in poor conditions are doing them a favor? Please!

ACHTUNG MEIN HERRS UN HERREN!
Now that I have your UNDIVIDED attention, I've posted several article on my blog in regards to ILLEGAL ALIENS as well as one that shows HOW MUCH THEY COST US!

Also, the TOP article today is one on Gun Grabber Dianne Feinstein who passed 1.5 BILLION DOLLARS in government contracts to TWO COMPANIES her hubby owned! Ooops. Can we say, Randy Cunningham?

So far, the Senate Ethics and the MSM has totally ignored it.

I CHALLENGE ANY LIBSQUIRTS to read it and debate it. Bring in on ya limp noodles.

Another senator sold us out
This just came out from the minutemen. Take a look at it. Republican Senator Lindsay Graham has sold us out.
http://minutemanhq.com/hq/article.php?sid=265

Just disgusting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

GunnyG
Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. So do the vast majority of the American people. Any suggestions for what we should do?

There are tons
of Americans who have been displaced in their jobs because the illegals are doing them. In my area, every brick layer, construction worker, landscaper, distribution center, meat packing companies are all being manned with illegals.

Americans all worked these jobs prior to this, so nobody can tell me Americans won't do these jobs.
It's propaganda and no one is fooled by it anymore.

trevor
What galls me is hearing someone speak on the news that they protested to DEMAND immigration reform. If they're ILLEGAL, they don't have the right to DEMAND ^%$%^&&**. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!


Right as usual Michelle!
Our so-called 'Home Land Security' is a joke! There is none! Our appointed leaders are selling our country a little piece at a time! Traitors one and all!

The citizens of the United States need to wake up from their state of Apathy and take a real hard look at what our government is doing to us! But that may not happen until it's to late.

Most of us go about our daily lives with little or no thought to what the government is doing. We spend our lives dedicating our time to advancing in our jobs and doing the best we can to make a good life for our families. Relying on the government to do it's job.

When we come home after a hard days work, turn on the news to see what's going on in the country. The politicians bombard us with lies and distortions about how well the government is doing. In reality, and in the politicians eyes, we have all become "Useful Idiots!"

Dangerous" Dave
Good idea, But i've saying this for years. If you get sentenced ex. 10 years, out source them back to there own country, pay to jail them for the entire time. They would kill them and take the money.

killer
Whew, you sniffing glue again?

I have not read a more moronic post since Tehran Kimbat flew the nest.

Tell your sob story to the people that these human locust rob, rape, and murder.

The Heritage Foundation just came out with a report that EACH HOUSEHOLD of illegals cost us 32,000 in taxes for a whopping 2.2 TRILLION bucks a year. (IT IS ON MY BLOG)

Not to mention the law enforcement costs that catching, trying, convicting, and imprisoning them imposes upon the US taxpayer.

And the MYTH that they do the job Americans don't want is pure hogwash. IF you are unemployed and collecting benefits, you TAKE the job they find you or your benefits stop. No reason NOT TO WORK.

Twist your hankie somewhere else nitwit.

P.C. self-strangulation
Some people seem reluctant to even talk about illegal aliens. It seems the msm and pro-illegal groups have been pretty effective in framing the argument in such a way as to make Americans think if they stand up for their rights and their country's rights they are somehow bigots. That is hogwash. I don't care what country someone is from, they need to follow our existing path to citizenship. We need to insist on it or we will be overrun. Our republic can only function if everyone follows the rules, those that don't must be punished. If America annouces to the world "We can't stop you, so come on in", the deluge will be overwhelming. If 3,000 a day didn't get your attention, then wait until it's 10,000 a day. We cannot sustain this influx and survive as a nation. We must speak up and speak to each other about this and not let false claims of racism or bigotry be used to intimidate us into silent assent. America is not Congress' to give away. America belongs to we the people. Speak to your neighbors, speak to your coworkers, but please speak up to your Congressmen and Senators. It's O.K. for us to enforce our laws, no really, it is.

Liberty
Time to play Cowboys and Mexicans.

ROUND EM UP! SEND them BACK! And bill Mexico for the costs.

DANGEROUS DAN
SAVAGE'S plan is the very bestI have heard !
They would do well in a toy factory in China.

Sounds like we should spend more time checking
out our judges,they can twist laws to suite
themselves.

When do we march ?

Bring a good book with you,you can read a lot,
while in jail !

YES I AM PI$$ED OFF-BIG TIME

BAM!
If you missed the POST OF THE DAY, check the one by Bountyhunter20 at 1:08 AM!

Funny how our politicians fail to keep that promise.

Maybe because the term "human locust" was not included in that oath allows the politician scum the out they need to ignore the swarm from the south.

THis is NOT immigration


Migration is a movement of people from one place to another. Immigration is citizens of one country applying for legal entry to another country with the intent to become a citizen of that country. The debate is not about immigration at all. It's about moving the cheap labor here. Old fashioned notions like citizenship and borders get in the way of that. Bush is telling us illegal aliens do not want to be Americans, they just want to work here. The real answer is for Mexicans to clean up Mexico so they do not need to flee their own country. Citizens of other countries do not have any right to "migrate" into our country without permission. If America announces to the world, "We can't stop you, so come on in", with another amnesty, the deluge will be overwhelming. If 3,000 a day didn't get your attention, then wait until it's 10,000 a day. We cannot sustain this influx and survive as a nation. We must speak up and speak to each other about this and not let false claims of racism or bigotry be used to intimidate us into silent assent. America is not Congress' to give away. America belongs to We The People.

They have purposely let the situation get worse to try to force us into another amnesty/guestworker/regularization, whatever euphamism it is this week. The media, unions, both parties, churches, and mostly the corrupt corporations employing them are working to undermine our sovereignty as a nation and our rule of law.

Until very recently there was practically NO enforcement. The recent raids are window dressing to convince us that they are doing something to get us to go along with "comprehensive immigration reform". What we need is:

Comprehensive Immigration Enforcement!!
It's never too late to do the right thing. Any law officer coming across any illegal at anytime, detaining and deporting them, securing the border, guarding the border, workplace enforcement with stiff fines and jail time for employers. Start today and see how soon the flow is in the other direction. If we make it clear that you just CANNOT BE an illegal alien in the U.S. without harsh penalty, (particularly if we add a provision that if we have to deport you, you will never get U.S. citizenship)then many will go home on their own.


And the numbers are much higher than 8-10 million. We are being purposely misled. Most of what you hear about illegal aliens is propaganda to get us to give up our country without a fight. In 1986 we were told it was less than 1 million, turned out to be 3.6 million getting amnesty, a few of them were involved in bombing the WTC in 1993. This time we're being told 10 million, it is more like 20-30 million. Enforcement under Clinton was insufficient but looked robust compared to this administration. We must tell the cheap labor importers NO! in no uncertain terms. Wake up America while you still have a country!!

Qui Bono?
I thought one of the great “benefits” bestowed upon us by having a workforce of illegal aliens was the labor they provided at minimum or sub-minimum wage. The arguments go along the lines of “Sure, we can refuse to hire illegals, but you’ll be paying $12 for a head of lettuce.” The prices in labor-intensive industries, such as produce harvesting, construction, and the like, are kept down by paying laborers wages by the day, whether that day is 8 or 14 hours long. The employees can’t complain over much as they have no legal status to bring suit, can be easily replaced, and always have the threat of being turned in to the authorities hanging over their head. Deplorable conditions, true, but given those arguments, granting amnesty will in no way benefit either the illegal aliens or the American people.

If amnesty is granted, then the illegal aliens become American citizens. As such, they are granted the rights and protections of citizenship, including the laws governing wages. This would place those labor-intensive industries in a quandary: either they could provide that theoretical head of lettuce for $12, or they would have to fire their current workers for a whole new batch of illegal aliens. Given market pressures, the choice would be clear: replace the workers and remain competitive. Furthermore, if illegal aliens are here doing jobs that American citizens will not do, won’t making them American citizens induce them to likewise shun such jobs? The end result, as far as I can tell, would be that a number of the current illegal aliens would find themselves unemployed American citizens, mostly through involuntary means, while a new wave of aliens would come in to take their place in the workforce.

How exactly would an increase in unemployment, a subsequent increase in claims for government-provided relief, and a continued influx in illegal aliens benefit America? I have no idea. Perhaps it may benefit those politicians who view the welfare dependant and unemployed as their preferred constituents. They may view 12 million illegals as 12 million potential voters up for grabs, going to the party or candidate that clamors for amnesty the loudest.

I’m sure I’m missing something here. Or, rather, I hope I am.

illegals
I keep hearing about how hard working and contributing to society the illegals are. How do they find the time to demonstrate? Maybe they aren`t as hard working or contributing as mush as we have been given to believe. Just a thought.

Woody
And..if they can't even fly a flag correctly, how on earth are they holding down a job and "contributing" to our society???

Thanks Michelle...KEEP IT UP!!!!! Somehow we must meet the challenge and get these people out of our country once and for all.

How can we get the "birth/citizenship" revoked??

What a crock!

PINK PRISON COMPOUND
Perhaps if we just set up tent cities with all illegals garbed in PINK (as in the Arizona good sheriff's county) maybe they'd decide to stay home! It is ridiculous that our tax dollars are spent to feed and house these prisoners. Let them do a little "suffering", wear pink, eat peanut butter and jelly sandwichs etc. and see how long they'll keep crossing the border. I think the good sheriff is on to something!!!!

Sooner
You did miss one small item.

Employers withhold employment taxes on their workers, and if they are ILLEGAL workers with FALSE papers, the money hits the Treasury never to be claimed. How can it with a bogus SSN? Thus, the Feds rake in BILLIONS of dollars, from both businesses and people. Legalized robbery.

Asking politicians, addicted to OPM (Other People's Money) to stop the flow, is like asking Rosie O'Donnell to step away from a free buffet.

All Logic out the Window
I'm appalled that after 9/11 and a war on global terrorism that our lawmakers and politicians have become so complacent to secure our borders. These people are putting politics over national security! And why??? For vote pandering???

There is absolutely no sense in charging law abiding immigrants fees and years of paperwork while we allow MILLIONS to just walk in illegally and be parasites off our government services. The paradox is as obvious as the nose on our face, but what is so sickening is that our government stands idly by on the sidelines!

This is morally and legally reprehensible.

Ilegal Aliens
Just keep supporting NumbersUsa and all the other tireless, brave groups working to keep this crazy, out-of-touch Congress from passing any kind of "comprehensive" bill. I live in No. VA and it's becoming more and more like a 3rd world community for those of us in the middle income level. They are the dregs of their respective countries, the underclass. And their so brazen, because they know El Presidente Bush will take care of them. I'm mad as hell.

IS IT FAIR?
Hundreds of millions, perhaps billions of people would come to this country if they could. Is it fair to grant a path to citizenship to those who have broken our laws and skipped to the head of the line?

Is it fair to give preferential treatment to people who are here illegally, just because they live close enough to crawl under the fence? Are the millions of others who must cross an ocean to get here less deserving?

Is it fair to require the taxpayers to subsidize cheap labor by paying for education, health care and social services those people and their families require?

Is it fair to ask America to accommodate the culture and language of people who live here illegally, while many of them won't bother to learn ours?

Well Said Virginia Pat!
Take a bow...I hope everyone reads your posting

Sturgis, Mi. Mayor, time to embrace dive
Time to Embrace diversity.
This was an article print in the Sturgis Journal.
If Sturgis is to grow, its residents will have to connect with Mexican Immigrants, which now represent one- third of the community.

That was one of three challenges Mayor Rob Sisson presented to the city commission on Wednesday. He wants to see action taken by November.

To better communicate with Hispanic residents, Sisson proposed forming an ad hoc committee of community leaders next month to tackle the social and language barriers.

"The Mexican immigrants in Sturgis have brought diversity and enlivened our economy, "Sisson told the commission. "Imagine if the estimated 3,500 people (Mexicans) did not live here. How many vacant homes would we have and what would the impact be on the sale prices of our homes? Immigrant entrepreneurs have opened several retail stores (read Mexican stores in Red Green and white) and four very good restaurants here."

Sisson said he was inspired to make his plan of initiatives after last week's town hall meeting on economic strategies.

The subject of working together with Hispanics was also brought up at a meeting held at Holy Angles Parish on April 17.

"Holy Angels has the largest number of immigrants attending its services of any local church, Sisson siad, "yet the reality is that there are two distinct parish communities operation out of the same building. One is for immigrants (my take, Non English speaking) and the other for non-immigrants."

Sisson gave other reasons why Mexican immigrants are an asset to Sturgis. (His take not ours)

"Employers continually compliment the immigrant work force for their desire to work hard and be productive," he said. "Our schools receive operating funds based on the immigrant enrollment. It would be a staggering loss to our schools that would certainly impact the quality of educaiton available for non immigrant students." (my take WHO is PAYING FOR THESE STUDENTS?)

Sisson said it's time to set aside the argument about LEGAL VS. ILLEGAL IMMMIGRATION. (DOESN'T THAT SUCK??? He thinks it's ok for illegals to flood 1/3 of the city - MY take)

"That is a Federal issue and the federal government has failed to address it." (NO MAYOR YOU HAVE FAILED TO ADDRESS IT!)

He said the city of Sturgis, surrounding townships, St. Joseph County and the state of Michigan "can do nothing about the status of these people." (Oh really, if he cared about the legal citizens, there is PLENTY HE COULD DO)

Second on his list of initatives was forming a committee to start leading where the state is failing to do the job.

"The state has and is failing to provide leadership on how local govenrment, including schools, community colleges, cities, villages, townships and counties are going to provide the necessary basic services to residents and businesses and keep people in the community," Sisson said.

That ad hoc committee would include representation from the city commission, county, twp. of Sturgis, Fawn River, Sherman and Burr Oak, Glen Oaks Community College and Sturgis Public Schools.

"If we do not take the lead on this, we will be led to a place and time we probably are not going to like. We need to start leading from the bottom up, "he said.

The third initative was to ask commissioners Lee Austermann and Barbara Fisher to make a recommendation to the city commission on the U.S. Conference of Mayors Climate Change Agreement by May 23.

Sturgis can adopt the "Cool City" designation by signing the agreement. Sisson said the time has come for local municipalities to look at ways to save money by reducing energy consumption and waste.

My take on all of this BS, is that the city of Sturgis, Michgan which sent one of its largest factories to Mexico (Kirsch Corporation) and another large one to Mexico, and part of another to China, that out with the jobs, in with the illegal aliens.
In other words, we send our factories to Mexico, and they in turn send over 3,500 Mexicans to take over the rest of the jobs.
Want to know the starting wage for blue collar workers??? 8.50 to 9.50/hour, and you pay insurance on top of this. BUT the problem with Sturgis is this, they are living many families to one home, and they can afford this.
BUT the problem to me is WHY isn't the FEDERAL Government going after the Employers of these people.

I'm not against immigration, I'm against TOO MANY FROM ONE CULTURE!!! This is what Teddy Kennedy said in 1965 that we wouldn't be inundated with many from one country, what a LIAR HE IS.
If I was a millionaire, I would buy one of those houses on his little island, and STUFF it with illegal aliens, and see how HE like that/
He doens't care about what POLITICIANS ARE DOING TO US, BECAUSE HE IS IN A GATED COMMUNTIY.

Labor costs for harvesting
If I remember correctly, the labor costs for harvesting various vegetables is less than 5% of the total cost to the consumer. Thus the possibility that the consumer would see even a doubling of prices is remote at best. Imagine a tripling of the wage: this would suggest a 10% increase in a product which costs $1.

Sure there are jobs that Americans won't do. What is left out is the remainder of the sentence: These are jobs that Americans won't do at the current wage.

Mail, fax and call your representatives.

Virginia Pat...
You need to tone it down. It is politically incorrect to say that our country is sef-strangulating itself...this terminology is too harsh and critical, rather, for now on please say, "our country is self imposed oxygen deficient". Get with the program. (sarcasm)

Lindsey Graham
and John McCain are Brokeback Mountain campers. Get rid of'em!

If a loser like McCain ever made it to the White House, it would be the end of America!

President John McCain
... and first lady Lindsey Graham




The press is FAR from silent
thinker writes: Wednesday, May, 02, 2007 9:42 AM
WHAT???
...
AND THE PRESS IS SILENT!

Well, not quite. The "press," our beloved fourth estate, comes out on the wrong side. Have you seen this? http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55481

Michelle did, and noted same at hotair.com

I just happened to be there in Mason Park with U. S. Borderwatch, and the cameraman was totally ignoring the bad behavior on the hispanic side of the street, but he got a camera-ful of our outrage.

So he's been disciplined. He should be fired. But of course no self-respecting American wants to do his job, right?

It is also worth noting that while half a dozen police officers were detailed to "keep our side in line," the mounted horse patrol and the other 49 cops were making sure that the hispanic side didn't cross the street to attack us, either physically or verbally.

NoAmnesty
GWB is dead wrong on this. INS needs to get serious about enforcing the current laws on hiring. Every large landscaping company in the Portland Or. area is nothing but illegals. Many construction companies hire illegals. Change the laws on children born here from illegals, Grandfather it from at least 15 years.

Everyonesfacts Logic
Great idea everyonesfacts, lets spend untold millions (perhaps billions) of dollars erecting 2 fences along the border and vigilantly monitoring them for illegals and then let virtually all of them in through the legal front door. That makes a whole lot of sense. You'd make a great politician with your economic wisdom and penny-pinching ways.

Either illegals are a good thing and we should legalize those already here and encourage more or they are bad and we should send those already here home and prevent future wanna-be illegals from being successful.

Illegals are not bad just because they are illegal, they are bad because they cost us money, lower our wages, overpopulate our country, and balkanize our country. Send them home now!!!

illegals
They don't pay taxes, they use a phonney or stolen SSN, claim 6 or 7 dependents. Employers should be made to pay there taxes, that would slow down the hiring, plus put the in jail for breaking the law.

The American Way

killer writes: "We are wasting time and money,in our attempt to stop what can't be stopped ... Are we so "CALLOUS",that we have lost our human touch?"

*****
killer:

You are joking ... right? Reward the lawbreakers ... its the American Way?!

It is a hard topic but you have to put the same level of empathy to work for those who are angry and frustrated because legal American citizen's rights are second place to lawbreakers.

Illegal is ILLEGAL, but our government is rewarding criminal behavior with education, free health care, and etc; and it's our time and money that pays for those services.

Legal Americans are being treated like second class citizens; what we are feeling is not bigotry – it's self preservation.

The Chicago March Yesterday
I believe where I live had the largest turnout for the marches that went nationwide yesterday. We have major issues here.

1. The illegals are in an uproar because the Feds arrested in a local shopping mall a group of Mexicans that were selling fake passports and ID's to illegals and were making 3 million a year off of that. They are upset because they came into the mall, where this activity was set up, in full gear and guns. The illegals feel that was unnecessary roughness and intimidation for simple ID forgers. However, what the MSM hold back is that those who were arrested also were charged with murder prior.

2. A church in Chicago has been harboring an illegal alien mother and her son for over a year. They live in the church and are protected from the law as long as she remains inside. She needs to be deported and she won't go and the church won't give her up.

3. During the march yesterday, there were two people....only two....who bore signs that read "I Support Legal Immigration, NOT Illegal Immigration" and the Mexican marchers stormed those two people and tried to ensue violence on them. It took 40 cops to pull the marchers off of those two people. There were no arrests made for the violence and assault on those two people simply holding signs across the street.


My Chicago is lost.

The $12 head of lettuce
We're already paying it, in the increased taxes and hidden societal costs required to support the illegal alien population, the hospitals closing down and overcrowded schools, increased crime and costs in stolen property and injured or killed victims, bi-lingual everything, higher insurance premiums for cars due to uninsured motorist fees, graffiti-removal expenses to both government and the private sector, etcetera, ad nauseum.

At least if my head of lettuce simply costs $12, I have the choice of buying it or not.

That choice, BTW, will keep the cost of the lettuce down, too.

Lynne and jimbo
... mentioned "Home Depot" and the landscapers' trucks, but that doesn't quite go far enough.

Who HIRES the landscapers to work in their yards? Illegal aliens?

NO!!

It's American citizens who pay landscapers to hire illegals to work in their yards.

Just like it's American citizens who buy new houses from D.R. Horton and KB-Home, who subcontract as many jobs as they can to illegal labor.

American citizens who hire contractors to bring illegals into their yards to dig swimming pools and pour concrete.

American citizens who keep swinging through the burger- and taco-shop drive-thrus where the illegal kitchen laborers don't speak English.

American citizens who pay for domestic and home maintenance services that send illegals to your house with the carpet cleaner and the dust mop.

OF COURSE we should enforce our laws. I'm completely disgusted by the farce of referring to amnesty as "comprehensive immigration reform." News flash for the politicians: if it doesn't secure our borders and enforce our laws, IT ISN'T COMPREHENSIVE.

Let's start, however, by being clear on who provides the economic incentive to the illegals and their employers.

Final note: the best way, by far, to curb the illegals problem would be to shut down businesses entirely and ruin the lives of their owners when they are found to be using illegal labor. No fines, just shock and awe. Legal Americans who work for them would certainly lose their jobs that way, but it would break the cycle of illegal labor.

It's the administrations of the cities, counties, and states that benefit from the presence of those businesses that will never let that happen. As any alert person who lives in a border county can tell you.

Immigration Insanity
It's so painful to see how stupid the nation is on a slam-dunk issue such as this and then there are border control agents serving a dozen years apiece for doing their job. Ouch, OUCH that hurts.

Election Day
There are 560 days left until election of 2008. Make yourselves heard. Politicians want to be reelected above all else. Make this an issue. If all the American citizens made as big a deal over this as MAD did over drunk driving then the politicians will hear us.

Roadkill58
I disagree. Oh, they'll pay lip service to it, nod their heads at the right moments, but won'y do a D*MN THING about it once Mr X points out to them that, "hey, we're making gazillions off of this issue. Want that free money to stop?"

Until you turn the tap and cut that money off, we'll get what we've always gotten in the past, DOGSQUEEZE from within the Beltway. After all, rich politicians, whose kids go to prep schools, never see illegals in their ranks, so again, it'll never happen. From Jorge Bush on down they're isolated from our problems and they really DO NOT GIVE A D*MN!

Tired of This Argument?
Often times I hear the argument that the European Pilgrims were the first illegal immigrants and that we have no right to complain about the natives reclamation of this nation.

Does one honestly believe that Mexico or Native Americans were in any organized condition to actually form a prosperous nation out of North America? Prior to European colonization, NA was a frontier with small, warring Indian tribes. No rule of law. Modern day Mexico is to this very day riddled with political corruption.

Are we to realistically expect that as empires come and go on the other side of the pond that this precious land were to remain some unblemished frontier??? Imagine if other world powers beat the English, French or Spaniards here...where would the natives be then? Pure speculation but possible extinction? No other circumstance would have made America the hegemony it is today. Americans- native and immigrants alike should all be thankful that this land came to fruition exactly like it did. The right circumstances at the right time. All in all, I don't think there should be any complaints.

North American Natives
This is real simple folks. Simply have all people with North American native ancestors stand up and tell the Central and South American natives to stop being racist criminals.

BTW, I'm still waiting for Bush to list which federal laws I get to break since nothing happens to the millions of people I have in my town that are illegally here daily.

No military incursions? Gee, I guess the military uniforms and automatic guns video taped regularly in San Diego are all myths.

I've plenty of community members in San Diego that are tired of criminals continuing to steal American tax dollars and the complicit assistance of government in stealing tax dollars. Government incapable of following its own laws is no longer a government, it is a dictatorship.

Immigration Enforcement

Is a lesson too late for the learning.

BrianR: cost of illegals
I just got my auto insurance bill and even with a perfect driving record, my bill went up 35% from last year. Guess why? Uninsured driver liability. Guess who drives uninsured in CA? Hint: they account for half of all drivers in CA. They usually don't speak English.

Caballerkid: Take it a step further
Let's even grant that there's some validity to the argument that the Pilgrims et al were "illegal immigrants" (and I don't for a second).

Should we then not learn a lesson from history, but instead just stand around with our thumbs up our wazoo and let the same thing happen to us?

How stupid is that?


Illegals
I am just furious with these Mexicans marching in my country. They broke the law coming here, and are breaking the law staying here, they are breaking the law if they have a job here, they are breaking the law if they have false paerwork and soocial security cards.Yet, they have the right to protest my Government??????

I just saw on Fox that those men who were arrested in Alabama for having all the guns, granades, and launchers, etc., were charged with planning to kill mexicans. It may come down to that all across the country, if our government won't act.

Get ready
Collect bullets for all the guns you own. And buy more guns.

This thing is going to blow and I'm not going to be caught unprepared.

I have read a LOT of anger here and I know good and well it is not the only people in this country who are mad as hell.

The 'people' coming here breaking our laws are not stand-up people or they wouldn't be breaking laws and demonstrating in our streets. There will be a point where they think they are ready to rise up and take what they want.

I'll be waiting for them.

It's too late!

It's just simply too late.

Open borders is dangerous
Open borders in the age of social welfare and diversity is a very very dangerous thing.

It takes an uncommon strength to resist the pull of welfare quicksand.

Our country has pretty much lost its sole and is not willing to encourage basic civil behavior (hoodlums, pimps, whores, and slackers are now widely accepted as making a valid “lifestyle choice”).

Diversity has turned victim hood into a lucrative self-sustaining industry.

I am not sure who we would protect more by stemming the flow of immigration – Americans or the immigrants.

Here's my take...
For what it is worth...
You decide.
I don't care much.
I don't buy this nonsense about it being impossible to round up the 12-20 million illegals aliens. It's quite simple, really.
Give the local and state police the power to detain people that they arrest, pull over, etc. that turn out to be illegals.
Have them move the illegals to ICE and let ICE deal with them. This would make the job totally possible and quite simple. As it is right now, thousands of illegals get speeding tickets, dui's, busted with drugs, breaking and entering, etc.
Deport them all immediately. No trial. No hearing. No consideration of family (is it our fault you had a child in our country, which you shouldn't have been in anyway? That's YOUR fault illegal, not ours, and therefore your problem. Take 'em with you.). No nonsense.
If you aren't legally here, you get sent home.
If we catch you a second time, we don't send you just over the border so you can hop on over again.
We ship you to the southern most part of Mexico.
Make your way from there.
If we catch you a third time, we ship you to Darfur. I heard they need people there.
Don't like it? I don't care.
Millions of ID thefts can be directly traced to illegals.
That's millions of American's whose lives are ruined because of illegals.
Disease comes from unimmunized illegals.
I used to work in the restaurant business. i used to be able to tell who was illegal because they would use the bathroom and leave their used toilet paper in the garbage cans.
True story.
I am tired of people saying "we are not criminals". Really? Did you break the law by coming here illegally? Then you are criminals. End of query.
We SHOULD send ICE to these rallies. Last time I checked, people here illegally do not have a right to protest, gather peacefully, and disrupt legal citizens lives.
We could ship them out by the bus load.
Does anyone else find it ironic that these illegal aliens feel free to protest here, but not in Mexico?
The reason they come here is for opportunity. There is none in Mexico. There is also little protest to change that in Mexico.
So instead of changing their own laws, which would be difficult and cost the government money while stimulating their economy and creating jobs, they come here to get us to change our laws, while sending back money to Mexico and not paying taxes.
Sure, they pay SOME taxes when they use stolen id's. And yes, the government makes 'free money' but not equal to the amount that a normal taxpayer would provide. Why? Well, many of them declare at least 6 dependants regardless of how many they actually have. They pay little in taxes and don't file with the IRS, leaving every single one of them short paying taxes. Who makes up that difference? You and me.
And who pays for their healthcare? You and me.
And their kids American education? You and me.
And who pays for police protection when they protest?
You and I.
And I don't buy the argument that illegals do jobs americans wont. Bull.
I heard someone on the radio today say that they just wouldn't be able to find a cook willing to work for $8 an hour, the amount he pays his illegals.
Tell that to the unemployed masses.
Or, god forbid, offer $10 and see what happens.
My, my - the cost of doing business might go up. I guess you'll have to figure out a way to increase consumer interest in your goods or raise prices ever so slightly.
The average cook at my restaurants made $10-$16 an hour based on their ability and experience.
We did fine.
Half the staff was illegal (which we found out after we hired them and fired them immediately after finding out) at one point. The rest were white, black, korean, japanese, and LEGAL mexican americans.
I don't buy it.
People who hire illegals on purpose don't do it because they have to, they do it to make a little more money for their work.
That's no excuse.
My dad is a legal immigrant. People are shocked when he tells them he is against amnesty and wants illegals deported.
He has to explain to them that it was difficult to obtain legal immigration status. That these people cheat the system.
And these cities (like San Franciso) that call themselves 'sanctuary cities'? Withhold all federal funds until they are in compliance.
See how well your city runs without federal aid, then jump on board.
And if you run a sanctuary city? Be prepared to be prosecuted for aiding a criminal. Hope you enjoy your jail time.

INVADERS
Time to stop calling illegals "immigrants" or "illegals". THEY ARE INVADERS! Unless we are willing to take to the streets, our politicians and big business will succeed in selling us out. It is that simple.

Mexican economy
Another thing I find interesting is that no one seems to talk about Mexico's economy in relation to immigration...

Mexico's GDP per capita is something like $10,600. This puts Mexico above the global GDP per capita of $10,000. Mexico is not a poor country! People are not starving. There is no valid humanitarian component to the pro-open border argument.

Of the 268 countries / national entities on this plannet, 134 other countries are poorer than Mexico.

I'm with TopGun on this,
in that I have never been so disgusted with our country's leaders and I have never felt so betrayed by them at the same time. They're destroying our country in less than 30 years.

Why? What do they see that we don't? Is there some light at the end of the tunnel where everything is going to be better? I don't see it. I see America going down the tube at a rapid rate and I see nothing but trouble in the future. Our leaders are ignorant, drug addled ex hippies who screwed up their own lives for 30 years and now want to screw up the rest of the population.


To Lynne
As far as the law is concerned, there is no such thing as "sanctuary" in a church. This came up about the woman hiding out in the Chicago church before. The idea of sanctuary hasn’t been around since the middle ages (except in Hollywood).

Jeffislouie
I fully agree with you. There is no reason we can't get rid of these illegals(invaders). If our laws were inforced about employment, if we quit giving them free medical care,welfare, and other perks, they would leave.

I am sick of these liberals that are watching our country going down the tubes, and cry for these criminals. Diseases we had wiped out are back. Even bedbugs, that we had totally destroyed are now back,big time.

The "priest" that is harboring that illegal in his "church" building, said "We brought these 12 million people here, and we owe them something..Funny I don't recall bringing even one here, do you?

I know I'm sounding unhinged, but this whole thing is wearing so thin with me!!

Conservatives are Socialists
Let me first state that I do not favor in any way, shape or form giving quick citizenship to any immigrant. Those who want to become citizens should have to wait several years. That way, a foreign governent wouldn't be able to influence our elections and/or form of government in a short period of time.

With that said, I am in favor of open borders. Not the left-wing version or what conservatives think what left-wingers want. I don't believe in central economic planning. I believe that the goverment should not get in between a willing buying and selling of a product or service. In this case, the service is labor. At the same time, there should be no welfare of any kind for immigrants, or for citizens either.

As I see it the conservative movement has 3 objections to immigrations: economic, law and order and cultural/social.

The economic argument that they're taking "our" jobs is pure socialism/collectivism/communism. Nobody owns a job. Employment is determine between a buyer and seller.

The law and order argument states that these people are breaking the law and we are a nation of laws. And that we should respect the rule of law. First off, there is no victim.(Just like gun and drug law violations) When someone crosses a border, nobody's rights are violated. Unless you think "society" has rights. But that's what liberals think, right? Besides that, the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land, not an immigration statue. I don't think the Constitution mentions anything about immigration, but I could be wrong. If you want to follow the rule of law, then AMEND the constitution. As a corollary, some feel that it is an invasion and the Constitution allows for repelling of invasion. This is a stretch. Most immigrants do not commit real crimes nor are they part of an army. So it can't be an invasion.

The last argument states that these immigrants are changing our culture. While this may be true, since when do individuals have a right to have government support their culture. Let the government protect people's property rights and the culture will take care of itself. By the way, most of the immigrants from Latin America are Catholics. So they should have a lot in common with most Americans. Even if they weren't most conservatives claim to be Jews and Christians. And those immigrants are your brothers and sisters. Do you think Christ would have differentiated between a Mexican and an American?

The bottom line is that this whole mess is due to government central planning, something conservatives claim to oppose. If conservative can get enough political backing to try to make government at the border bigger and more bureaucratic, they can probably get more support for ending welfare and quick citizenship for immigrants.

Jobs Americans won't do?
Perhaps if Welfare did not pay people as much to stay home there would be people willing to do those jobs.
Who did those jobs prior to America becoming a Welfare State with an open Border and the Mexican Government instructing their citizens to break American laws?

And another thing
This MS13 gang has come from Mexico. I saw on a report the other night it has spread to 42 states so far. What next!!!

Lysanderspooner
Then those "christians" should have obeyed the law as is taught in the bible.

Thomas Jefferson
Didn't ole Tommy-boy say that the people have the right and duty to remove, by force if necessary, and unresponsive government? It's on the wall of the Jefferson Memorial just over his left shoulder, I believe.
We have certainly let this government go on and on, doing little to stem the invasion from the south, spending our great-grandchildren into receivership, allowing PC to govern their actions, taxing us into serfdom, bending over backwards not to offend the most bloody "religion" the world has seen. At what point do we pick up the guns?

Letters to Local Editors Instead
Since there are 187 comments posted about this issue/articcle as I write now, I wonder how many have also written letters to the editors of their local papers. As an example, if five letters are submitted to one paper expressing a similar opinion, the papers will post at least one if well written and brief. That one letter will be read by hundreds or even thousands of readers who need to know the truth rather than the choir here that already knows it. Before writing again on Townhall, take your precious time and send a Letter to the Editor. Otherwise, all this deteriorates to is mere gossip, rant, and distraction without any constructive purpose.

Lysanderspooner
This is OUR culture, not the Mexican culture, itf they want a Mexican culture, let them stay in Mexico!!!!!!

MyOpine
You bring up one of the biggest canards foisted by the pro-illegal immigration lobby, jobs Americans "won't" do. Any job can be done for the right price. If all illegals disappeared from the country overnight, the price of labor (and the prices of goods) would simply adjust to the supply and demand equilbrium. Simple Economics 101. John McCain has fallen for this stupidity. If you remember, a couple of years ago he offered $50/hour to anyone who would be willing to pick lettuce "in the hot sun" for 10 hours/day. Idiot politicians never fail to surprise how out of touch with reality they are.

Harboring
The Catholic Church apparently thinks its ok to offer illegals sanctuary. I think that's fine. We should start storming churches, and anyone caught breaking the law, i.e. harboring illegal aliens loses their tax exempt status. Plus its a good precedent for when we start raiding the mosques.

To LysanderSpooner
That is some of the most rediculous tripe I have seen yet. First you post the typical straw man argument that liberals use, then you shoot it down.

Conservatives have three reasons for opposing illegals????

You appear to be an anarchist who doesn't believe in any form of Government.

Here is the MOST cogent argument - If we don't enforce the border then you do not have a border. If you do not have a border then you do not have a country.

But I guess that is fine with you because if you don't have a country you don't need a Government.

Of course, once we elliminate our "evil" Government it will be replaced by some other Government not of our chosing.

GunnyG
I'm with you on that, Gunny. However, our government has made it abundantly clear that they are not going to do it. If WE THE PEOPLE tried to take such action, I think we'd be the ones being rounded up.

I still can't understand why anyone could even consider voting for a presidential candidate who agrees with amnesty and refuses to take a stand against all the freebies they legislated to give to illegal aliens.

Worker's Paradise
Most of the commentary from Illegals [ those that could speak even pidgeon English] at the Commie May Day rallies yesterday was "we are good workers". Well if thats the case why don't we send them to the great WORKER'S PARADISE, CUBA. Just think "Mariel Boatlift" in reverse! We can take all the Illegals,Mexican gang bangers, MS13, Nietas and other assorted one percenters and send them on an all expense paid trip to paradise.Flood the Cuban air and seaports with brother comrades! I'm sure their hermanos will receive them with open arms.They can have all the benefits of Universal Health Care,no language barrier, no evil gringos "harrassing them",welfare benefits for those that don't feel up to the challenge of doing the jobs that commies won't do! They can have their choice of the newest '53 Ford or '49 Chevy complete with turquoise colored body filler. Also, lets not forget that government sponsored housing. Hey Gunny,whaddayathink? think the Navy can handle the move? or will we have to call the fly-fly boys out of the "O" club for this one? While we are at it we can send American Liberals,and they can comiserate with their ideological soulmates.

Various
Lynne, about MS-13, you'll be relieved to know that LA Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa was in El Salvador yesterday, on a six-day trip to drum up Central American support for his anti-gang campaign.

I started the "holding my breath" countdown at 5:00 PM sharp...

And yes, the Border Patrol needs a big shot in the arm: reorganization, and more support from state and local authorities. The feds should start holding federal funds hostage to immigration cooperation from places like, oh, I don't know, LA County. (Pigs will be aloft demonstrating lift, weight, thrust, and drag before that happens.)

LysanderSpooner (interesting allusion(s) there): I don't disagree with you about the jobs. I've made the point before that what controls the existence of jobs is the level of demand for a product or service, and that demand is affected by price.

In the aggregate, you can't employ more expensive legal labor and keep your prices to the consumer the same -- therefore, in the aggregate, there will not be a job-for-job switch when/if illegals are somehow eliminated from the economy.

Instead, there will be a mix of: services moving off the economy entirely (e.g., lawn and home maintenance that some people decide to do themselves); fewer businesses in some segments of the economy (e.g., home improvement) because of lower demand; more outsourcing in some segments of the economy (e.g., agriculture that moves to Mexico and Central America); and in the Southwest, stabilization of big-ticket economic factors like home sales, and all the business that follows homeowners around, at a lower level than today's, because home prices and all the development costs assumed by builders will be higher. With some number of middle-class households in California being priced out of the housing market, there will be some noticeable movement of them to lower-cost areas of the country.

None of this being catastrophic. Very, very little of it, in the aggregate, resulting in "more jobs for Americans." Hiring more Americans to build houses will be offset by building fewer houses overall. Some people will benefit directly, but it will be a small minority.

More important is reducing the growing burden of illegals on government services. Frankly -- of note -- we wouldn't have THIS problem if we weren't so inclined to vote benefits for ourselves. The nanny-care infrastructure exists to be exploited because we created it for legal Americans in the first place.

You may deduce that I am NOT a socialist. I don't approve of literal "open borders," as that would retire the last barrier, however pathetic, to the unfettered entry of terrorists. But I do support higher levels of LEGAL immigration. Nor do I think we should limit it to people with specific high-tech skills. America's economic strength is not in "corporations" and "jobs," it's in individual entrepreneurship.

LysanderSpooner
"I don't think the Constitution mentions anything about immigration".

Ahh... but it DOES talk about defending our borders. As far as it being a stretch to say this is an invasion.... You are aware, right, of the Aztlan movement that believes a rather large portion of our country belongs to what they call, Aztlan? They consider US the invaders and they darn well plan to take over this part of the country. How do you categorize this, Lysander?
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?p=811

I agree with you about the problems with central planning and the government's role in protecting our property rights, BTW.

How does your belief in property rights sync with what many illegal aliens are doing to the property of those ranchers whose land they cross and TRASH as they illegally enter our country?

Vic said it well:
"If we don't enforce the border then you do not have a border. If you do not have a border then you do not have a country."

To jessicalange
Do you figure that she is concerned about the 9-11 aspects of the illegals because MOST of the 9-11 hijackers were here ILLEGALLY?

Why do you have a problem with enforcing the law?


Jessicalange: Oh, brother!
The same tired liberal mantra that tries to equate illegal invasion of the country with legal controlled immigration.

That one's such a wizened old chestnut I'm surprised anyone still is able to use it without simply dying of embarrassment.


May day
May day was originally a communist holiday. Then Ei
senhower established May 1st as "Law Day", It was reaffirmed by JFk. So isn't it ironic that these demonstrations were held of "Law Day"?

Laughable isn't it?

oops
one word Eisenhower

Lynne
hi

To Liberty and Vic
How does your belief in property rights sync with what many illegal aliens are doing to the property of those ranchers whose land they cross and TRASH as they illegally enter our country?

I knew I forgot something. The ranchers have every right to defend their property and law enforcement is within their power to arrest any trespassers and/or vandals. But I'll remind you that this is happening now, with immigration being illegal. If the immigrants didn't have to sneak across the border, they would be less likely to trespass.

As far as not enforcing a border meaning there is no country, I disagree. When someone walks across the border there is no loss in sovereignty or independence. It's not the same as the UN or some foreign government passing a law that affects Americans.

I am familiar with the Aztlan movement. They can preach whatever they want. If they did take over the Southwest, the Marxist policies would be a complete failure and people would revolt and/or flee.

Aztlan
Just think about it, Turning Arizona, California,and Nevada into a thrid world country.

To Lynne
Criminal sanctuary was abolished by James I in 1623, and it finally ended for civil processes in 1723. Since this was abolished in Britain before the US became the US it is part of our common law. I can’t find any legal opinions on it because the search terms bring over 500,000 hits and I have to go now. Anyway will be back possibly tonight.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,841355,00.html

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060922144112AAZYdoB&show=7


LysanderSpooner
As far as not enforcing a border meaning there is no country, I disagree. When someone walks across the border there is no loss in sovereignty or independence.
Tell that to any other country in the world.
If we had a open border, every person in the world that wants to come to america would be traveling to Mexico. The population here will muliply from 300 million to 1.5 billion in a year.

Open the Borders
The Founding Fathers saw no problem with America's open borders. It's hard to see why any conservative, libertarian, or capitalist would have a problem with open borders either.

Closed borders are just another form of tariff - a tariff on people instead of goods. I thought tariffs were bad?

But hypocrisy sells, so Michelle Malkin sells her hypocrisy to sycophants. She makes good money on it too, which no one can complain about I suppose. Law of supply and demand again.

Skellmeyer
Today's prize for the most absurd post goes to you, hands down so far.

Open borders, yeah, that's the ticket.

Where do you live, North Dakota? Try being in SoCal, and see what you think.

Further, any country that refuses to enforce its sovereignty by enforcing its own borders will not long exist.


Please stop the bleeding
Last year I went to the ER in respiratory distress - I had my daughter drive me. There were 20 - 25 hispanic individuals crowded in the waiting room and blocking the check-in desk. I tried to work my way to the front, to no avail, although it was clear that I could barely breathe.

As I got within earshot of the check-in desk, I heard the attendant state that the patient was a Mexican citizen. Nobody apparently spoke English and the ER folks apparently didn't speak Spanish, so the check-in process was basically stalled. After waiting 15 minutes with no movement, I called 911 on my cell phone and ordered an ambulance to the ER. Well, the EMT's were a bit confused as they were parked in the drive, but I asked them to transport me the 10 feet into the ER. They did and I finally got to be seen (of course it cost me a bit).

Anyway, I found out about an hour later that only one of the 20 - 25 people needed to be seen, that all others were friends and relatives and that the individual had a sprained ankle. The ER doc told me that he was really sorry about the situation, but that they contend with that sort of thing all the time. There were no English speaking individuals and no US citizens in the group (according to ER personnel).

Hmmm, these people don't cost us anything? They could have cost me my life.

Sounds like skellmeyer..
...is locked outside a bookstore.

Lynne
I'm glad GWB finally vetoed something. I've been busy with a few other things(making a living). Plus some of the stuff a few of these people post is incredible, it's the same old thing, I like reading things to at least think about it, but not talking points.

jessicalange
You left my blog without responding to my reply. I guess I didn't leave you with any wiggle room. Sin Loi.

HOWEVER, I'm posting an essay on the twisted mind of a liberal, since a few folks here have asked me to try an analyze the confused chaos found lurking in the vacuum between the ears of libs, you included.

I'll have it posted around 0630 tomorrow so get out of the rack BEFORE Noon and lay off of the dope until AFTER you read it.

In closing, I give you kudos for at least showing up to debate me. Better than your party members are doing!

BWHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH!

GunnyG
Play nice!!

BrianR
This "Church Sanctuary" thing seems to me it conflicts with separation of Church & State.
But then again, I don't have that Amendment in my Constitution. Do you know where I can get a copy of the Liberal Constitution?

Illegals from Mexico do harm?
http://www.newsmax.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?page=http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/3/15/124229.shtml

ctjaeger:
That's why ER's are closing. Illegals have no money or insurance, can't pay. The rest of us foot the bill.

LysanderSpooner
I think perhaps you're mistaking "conservative" with "libertarian" or "anarchist."

Conservatives do not believe in NO government intervention; we believe in STRICTLY LIMITED government intervention. The strict limits we agree to are those matters that pertain to the protection of life, liberty, and property, that only the government can do for the nation. Border control and immigration control are among those few items we do consider to be within the legitimate purview of a central government.

Immigration control is necessary for a number of reasons. Those reasons include public health, public safety, and national defense. It's unsound to allow individuals carrying diseases into the country; likewise unsound to allow other nations' criminals into the country. These cannot be prevented without sound border control. And in the current millieu of international terrorism by Q'tubists (radical Islam), national defense requires background examination for immigrants, which, again, requires sound border controls. There are also issues of the capacity of local economies, education systems, health systems, etc., that affect how many immigrants we want to allow into the country at any given time.

Once they're in, then yes, free markets determine labor prices and such. But advocating strong border control is COMPLETELY consistent with free-market conservatism.

MyOpine: LOL
"A wall of separation between Church and State", a phrase coined by Thomas Jefferson when writing a letter to the Danbury Baptist Convention in Connecticut to assure them that the government had no power to try to suppress their religion.

Funny how that phrase has gotten turned on its head from its original intent.

Now, of course, it's ALL about trying to suppress religious expression in any forum outside a church.

BTW, MO, why did you address your comment to me? I said nothing about church sanctuary. But, since you brought it up, I don't believe in the concept.

Government absolutely has the right to enforce laws that the church may not break. Otherwise, what would prevent human sacrifice in a church?




skellmeyer....
I'm not sure where you get the idea that the founding fathers were advocates of open borders. I'm curious to hear what makes you think that.
But it should also be noted that the founding fathers founded a nation that consisted of 13 states (knows as the colonies).
The population was tiny compared to what it is now and the majority of the US remained unexplored.
All they knew was that it was huge.
So even if it IS true that they were for open borders, they certainly couldn't have forseen a population exceeding 300 million people, much less an America that faced the dangers we do today.
Add to that the fact that the framers couldn't possibly have considered the flow of illegal invaders and the socio-economic effects of allowing people to come to this country, refuse to assimilate to the culture, ignore the language, refuse to pay taxes, and send their money back home (or ignore the laws of our country).
Whenever people bring nonsense like this up, I like to provide a nice perspective offered up nearly 100 years ago by then President Theodore Roosevelt:
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith, becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American… There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language… and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”—Theodore Roosevelt, 1907

BTW...
One thing people seperate for some reason is the skyrocketing healthcare costs we experience in this country and its relationship to illegal immigrants.
Simply put, these people require medical care. Often, this expense is billed and that billing is ignored, leaving the hospital out of pocket for their costs.
Who is left to pick that up?
You got it!
Us legal Americans.
Go figure!
And it should also be mentioned that diseases we have all but eradicated are carried over the borders and reintroduced to our populace.
Part of the immigration process is making sure that there is no inherent disease.
"According to Dr. Laurence Nickey, director of the El Paso heath district “Contagious diseases that are generally considered to have been controlled in the United States are readily evident along the border ... The incidence of tuberculosis in El Paso County is twice that of the U.S. rate. Dr. Nickey also states that leprosy, which is considered by most Americans to be a disease of the Third World, is readily evident along the U.S.-Mexico border and that dysentery is several times the U.S. rate ... People have come to the border for economic opportunities, but the necessary sewage treatment facilities, public water systems, environmental enforcement, and medical care have not been made available to them, causing a severe risk to health and well being of people on both sides of the border.”1

“The pork tapeworm, which thrives in Latin America and Mexico, is showing up along the U.S. border, threatening to ravage victims with symptoms ranging from seizures to death. ... The same [Mexican] underclass has migrated north to find jobs on the border, bringing the parasite and the sickness—cysticercosis—its eggs can cause[.] Cysts that form around the larvae usually lodge in the brain and destroy tissue, causing hallucinations, speech and vision problems, severe headaches, strokes, epileptic seizures, and in rare cases death.”2

The problem, however, is not confined to the border region, as illegal immigrants have rapidly spread across the country into many new economic sectors such as food processing, construction, and hospitality services.

Typhoid struck Silver Spring, Maryland, in 1992 when an immigrant from the Third World (who had been working in food service in the United States for almost two years) transmitted the bacteria through food at the McDonald’s where she worked. River blindness, malaria, and guinea worm, have all been brought to Northern Virginia by immigration.3 "

"Contrary to common belief, tuberculosis (TB) has not been wiped out in the United States, mostly due to illegal migration. In 1995, there was an outbreak of TB in an Alexandria high school, when 36 high-school students caught the disease from a foreign student.4 The four greatest immigrant magnet states have over half the TB cases in the U.S.5 In 1992, 27 percent of the TB cases in the United States were among the foreign-born; in California, it was 61 percent of the cases; in Hawaii, 83 percent; and in Washington state, 46 percent. The Queens, New York, health department attributed 81 percent of new TB cases in 2001 to immigrants. "

"Another problem is immigrants’ use of hospital and emergency services rather than preventative medical care. For example, utilization rate of hospitals and clinics by illegal aliens (29 percent) is more than twice the rate of the overall U.S. population (11 percent).7

As a result, the costs of medical care for immigrants are staggering. The estimated cost of unreimbursed medical care in 2004 in California was about $1.4 billion per year. In Texas, the estimated cost was about $.85 billion, and in Arizona the comparable estimate was $.4 billion per year.8

One of the frequent costs to U.S. taxpayers is delivery of babies to illegal alien mothers. A California study put the number of these anchor baby deliveries in the state in 1994 at 74,987, at a cost of $215 million. At that time, those births constituted 36 percent of all Medi-Cal births, and they have grown now to substantially more than half or the annual Medi-Cal budget. In 2003, 70 percent of the 2,300 babies born in San Joaquin General Hospital’s maternity ward were anchor babies. Medical in 2003 had 760,000 illegal alien beneficiaries, up from 2002, when there were 470,000."

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters64bf

Those who think we need open borders.
America is the only country I know of where someone can illegaly cross the border and apply for a job without going to jail.

Anyone who doubts this should sneak across the Mexican border and make a few job applications.
Be sure your wife will take out a 2nd to ransome you out that Mexican jail first.

LysanderSpooner
LysanderSpooner writes: Wednesday, May, 02, 2007 1:50 PM
Conservatives are Socialists
Let me first state that I do not favor in any way, shape or form giving quick citizenship to any immigrant. Those who want to become citizens should have to wait several years. That way, a foreign governent wouldn't be able to influence our elections and/or form of government in a short period of time.
blah blah blah Christ would have blah blah...

At what point did Christ say that you should knowing STEAL from another person to make your way in life?

At what point did Christ say that your government can tax you but not the segment of society using the services illegally?

At what point did contract law authorize keeping women as sex slaves for illegals as has happened in San Diego county?

At what point did Christ say that Tyson Farms could open recruit foreign nationals to break federal law and seven Presidents ignore it completely?

Can Christ name one construction company in San Diego county that is currently obeying workman's compensation law by insuring their workers properly? (yes, it's a trick question - Christ probably can and the answer is none).

With your emotional zeal blazing, please name which federal and state laws our citizens may freely break with no consequences?

Newspaper Editors
Lee writes: Wednesday, May, 02, 2007 2:00 PM
Letters to Local Editors Instead
Since there are 187 comments posted about this issue/articcle as I write now, I wonder how many have also written letters to the editors of their local papers. As an example, if five letters are submitted to one paper expressing a similar opinion, the papers will post at least one if well written and brief. That one letter will be read by hundreds or even thousands of readers who need to know the truth rather than the choir here that already knows it. Before writing again on Townhall, take your precious time and send a Letter to the Editor. Otherwise, all this deteriorates to is mere gossip, rant, and distraction without any constructive purpose.
---------------------------
The San Diego Union Tribune doesn't print stories or comments about criminals stealing our services, tax base, or retirement funds. That would be racist!

Lynne: My bad!
I must be in a real kind mood today toward the lib faction.

How about FUBAR?

You know what that means, I assume.


reply to Sammy
Sammy writes: Wednesday, May, 02, 2007 11:44 AM Everyonesfacts Logic
"Great idea everyonesfacts, lets spend untold millions (perhaps billions) of dollars erecting 2 fences along the border and vigilantly monitoring them for illegals and then let virtually all of them in through the legal front door. That makes a whole lot of sense. You'd make a great politician with your economic wisdom and penny-pinching ways."

Well, my fear is not so much for the illegals
as terrorists. I know that not building fences
which I guess is your proposal will show terrorists that we are serious when it comes
to self-defense. As for legal immigration,
again see my posts here:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/PaulGreenberg/2007/02/27/on_fighting_the_problem

Sammy writes:
"Either illegals are a good thing and we should legalize those already here and encourage more or they are bad and we should send those already here home and prevent future wanna-be illegals from being successful."

I have no problem legalizing the ones already
here, personally after necessary background
checks.
Again see my posts here:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/PaulGreenberg/2007/02/27/on_fighting_the_problem

Sammy writes:
"Illegals are not bad just because they are illegal, they are bad because they cost us money, lower our wages, overpopulate our country, and balkanize our country. Send them home now!!!"

I am for sending illegals home when caught.

As for immigrants as a whole they can lower
wages. They can also raise profits and
increase opportunities for businesses (new and
old)
Overpopulate is personal opinion - define it and
I'll tell you if I agree.
Balkanize the U.S. - history tells a different
story.

what the founding fathers believed
Seems like this is the only site y'all need:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/PaulGreenberg/2007/02/27/on_fighting_the_problem

Check 2/28 at 3:03 pm for what the founders
believed as to immigration.

jessicaskellmeyerspooner
All of these deserve nomination for most ridiculous post.
Jessica for trying the old canard of trying to confuse immigrants with illegal aliens. Some comments from another site by LEGAL immigrants:

I`m a legal immigrant who has been an american citizen for some time now. Illegal immigration makes me mad as hell, as it does alot of others I know. Illegals are not immigrants, they are illegal aliens period. I followed the law, and had to wait, and now I am proud to be an american. It makes me sick to see these illegals on t.v. marching, burning american flags, and demanding things that they dont even deserve. They refuse to learn english, which i speak just fine, they don`t want to be part of america, they just want to create their own isolated part of america. I am proud of my culture and where i came from, but i would never force my culture on anyone, like the mexicans try to do. I agree with Pulido 100%, and we need more legal immigrants to speak out. Why the u.s. government allows this travesty to go on is beyond me. I hope all americans will wake up to this. Hopefully america won`t get so bad with illegals, that i`ll have to move back, but i`m an american first!


Posted by: legal immigrant on February 14, 2007 03:26


Legal Immigrant - I also came here years ago and am so proud to be an American.
I absolutely detest this illegal alien invasion. It infuriates me to no end. I try to educate people around me about the greatest threat to America - illegals. It pains me to see what is happening before my eyes. People think that I harp too much about this issue. I will continue to harp about it until something is done about it.


Posted by: AJK on February 15, 2007 04:28 PM

Yes, hispanics can certainly be as American as you or I, I know some. However, Mexicans are not Americans, Guatamalans are not Americans, Hondurans are not Americans, El Salvadorans are not Americans. They can be, IF they apply for legal entry and follow our EXISTING path to citizenship. When someone lets himself into your house without your permission, do you consider him a guest? I don't. Invasion is not the right term, but what is happening is NOT immigration. People do not have an unlimited right to "migrate" from their country to ours. I know many immigrants from all over the world and it is especially for them that I oppose amnesty for illegal aliens. Some have waited years in refugee camps in southeast asia for their chance to become Americans. They respect this country, our laws, language and culture. All of them took the time, effort and expense to do it the right way. We should honor all those who have and not insult their sacrifices with another amnesty. The amnesty of 1986 has resulted in 10 times the number of illegal aliens and a general disregard for our laws. Another amnesty would be equally successful.


skellmeyer and lysanderspooner for basically calling for the destruction of the U.S.A. A nation that does not control its borders will not be a nation for long.

Lynne: Your answer awaits
at the Island.

illegal immigration controlled by supply
and demand:

http://patriotpost.us/current/

PatriotPost quotes WSJ article similar to my
CSM post that right now illegal immigration
is controlled by supply and demand not
enforcement.

"[A]ny policy overhaul that provides little incentive for illegals in the U.S. to acknowledge their status, and then prices legal entry out of reach for most future workers, is likely to increase illegal immigration. Which is to say that any reform failing to recognize labor market realities is worse than no reform at all.”

Something needs to be done based on
on-the-ground intelligence. WSJ's
editorial makes sense.

Everyone's fact: Supply and demand
I'll supply maps to Mexico and demand they leave.

Final Solution 2 ILLEGAL immigrant trash
Open Borders: But NO AMNISTY & NO BENEFITS.

This is the Real & Final Solution to ILLEGAL immigrants. Make the U.S. USER UNFRIENDLY to them. Deny them the benefits they come here for. Deny them Employment, Housing, Education, Welfare, Medical care, Citizenship for children borne here, Licenses and Permits necessary to function, and Membership in organizations that facilitate employment. In short; make life in the U. S. so uncomfortable and fearful, they’re forced to return home. Put teeth into this policy by making it a felony with fines and prison time for Citizens who assist Illegals in any of the above activities, with VIGGOROUS enforcement. With such a policy, a border fence will be counter productive, as we will then see a new wave of immigrants crossing the border: All GOING SOUTH. The money saved in border patrols and the construction and repair of barriers will be enormous; a tiny fraction of which would cover enforcement of this workable policy.
I mentioned this idea to 3 politicians Two are Liberals. All said: “yes it would work, but don’t quote me”. Why the off the record statement? Because it’s not “Politically Correct”. And as most people know, "PC" is just a buzz word for Socialist agendas. Therefore such a program will never be implemented.

It’s too bad our so called “representatives” don’t have the courage to rid us of this illegal immigrant trash that drains our economy by crowding our prisons, schools, welfare rolls and hospitals. These people have no interest in assimilating. They express only hostility to our culture and ad nothing to our country. They are neither needed nor welcome here.

Note; I’ve recently put my money where my mouth is by firing all my illegal alien maintenance people who work on my rental properties and evicted all my tenants unable to prove legal residence. I encourage other employers and landlords to do the same.

Fivo
At what point did Christ say that you should knowing STEAL from another person to make your way in life?

You are conflating two things. Stealing is wrong. Entering into an employment contract is not.

At what point did Christ say that your government can tax you but not the segment of society using the services illegally?

I don't want government taxing anyone. And I don't want anyone receiving "services" unless on a voluntary basis

At what point did contract law authorize keeping women as sex slaves for illegals as has happened in San Diego county?

It doesn't. And who the women are kept for is irrelevent.

At what point did Christ say that Tyson Farms could open recruit foreign nationals to break federal law and seven Presidents ignore it completely?

Not familiar with that one.

Can Christ name one construction company in San Diego county that is currently obeying workman's compensation law by insuring their workers properly? (yes, it's a trick question - Christ probably can and the answer is none).

It's none of the government's business what agreement an employer and employee come to. In short, abolish workman's comp. law.

With your emotional zeal blazing, please name which federal and state laws our citizens may freely break with no consequences?

Breaking any laws, unjust or not, has consequences. It is up to each individual to decide. I personally think it would be stupid to break any of the aforementioned laws.

By the way, I do not believe in the divinity of Christ. But since most Christians do, I thought you should at least be consistent.

Breaking Laws
LysanderSpooner writes: Wednesday, May, 02, 2007 5:33 PM
It's none of the government's business what agreement an employer and employee come to. In short, abolish workman's comp. law.

Breaking any laws, unjust or not, has consequences. It is up to each individual to decide. I personally think it would be stupid to break any of the aforementioned laws.
-------------------------------------
That's an interesting take. So which is it? Break the laws or not break the laws? You seem to be advocating both. Or is it just break the one's that inconvenience you?

Mike
One thing you left out.
The part about heavy fines and prison sentences for anyone who assists illegals;
OUR GOVERNMENT should hire some illegals just for the purpose of locating and entraping American employers who flount our immigration laws for personal gain.
Also have a reward for assisting capture and prosecution of employers who hire illegals.

If those employers knew there was more risk involved there would be fewer of them.

Question
Has it ever occurred to our Democrook and Republidope controlled congress that one of these illegal aliens may one day grow up to be president of the United States?

Think about it. Some cheater comes into our country, defies our laws, because he or she has been in the country so long and no one cares to question their citizenship status (how gauche!)and runs for president and gets elected using drug money and foreign intelligence service money to finance their campaign.

We COULD have someone who NEVER was exposed to our culture, has no respect for it and has no intention of enforcing our laws (like the congress) or defending our country.

We COULD have someone in the Oval Office who has the benefit of a foreign power as his or her prime goal.

Not pleasant.

Lynne - Chicago March and issues....
First, regarding the two people who held signs across the street which stated "We Support Legal Immigration, Not Illegal Immigration" and were stormed and attacked by the angry mob of marchers---I found out from a 20 seconds blurp on FOX cable news during Greta's time slot. Each city was citing how many people were there and if there were any incidents.

Only Chicago seemed to have more marchers because we've had more controversy, and we had the only reported incident. However, I heard nothing about it this morning at all.

And as far as the raid that was done in the shopping mall where the illegals set up a store front for making fake ID's and passports, I found the real story on my local radio station WIND, which is a conservative news radio.

No other news stations decided it was important to mention that the reason the Feds came armed to the teeth with flack jackets and guns blazing was simply because of the murderous backgrounds of the perps. The feds were simply prepared for what the situation called for. And considering these criminals staked out in a shopping mall only would endanger the patrons had the feds not been as prepared as they were.

As you can see, local TV news in Chicago is the MSM---we are fed info drip by drip, and they add the flavor. They incited the illegals to freak, protest and go nuts.....but you know, they would've done that anyway. They were demanding an investigation and an apology from the feds as well. LOL, they're still waiting.

The church is a touchy situation here. Somehow, if it happens to be against the law, for some reason, the police just won't go in there and it's been over a year. People have donated clothes and food and all sorts of goodies to this woman.

I wonder if Frank Sinatra if he were alive today still sing, "My kind of town...Chicago is...."

I think not.

I'm glad to see...
That Michelle is using the correct term, "illegal alien", and not the PC, "illegal immigrant". I've decided for myself that from now on it's "illegal alien." Their advocates snuck "illegal immigrant" into the language and I've noticed they're getting bolder and bolder and starting to drop the "illegal" part, possibly indicating that this confusion of terms is what they had in mind all along.

One person
...can have so much influence (one writer at the NYT). It's amazing how the general public soaks up the opinion, yes the opinion, of one individual, as fact. The apathy of the public is appalling and discouraging.

GunnyG has some really interesting items on illegals on his blog (when you see his name just click on it, or you may be able to go directly to it). It shows up as:

noliberalspin.townhall.com

Fox is reporting today about the illegals rioting in LA yesterday. Someone is trying to blame the police. Apparently the rioters were warned by the police, and also this took place in a notoriously violent area, so what the heck do they expect the police to do when illegal aliens, who are demanding rights by way of violence, start throwing rocks and bottles at the police? I'm sure the MSM will blow it all out of proportion siding with the rioters.

inkling_revival
Thank you for your thoughtful and cogent response. I appreciate it.

"Conservatives do not believe in NO government intervention; we believe in STRICTLY LIMITED government intervention. The strict limits we agree to are those matters that pertain to the protection of life, liberty, and property, that only the government can do for the nation."
No one's life, liberty or property is violated when a human being walks across the border. The only exception, of course, is those immigrants who trespass. And I dealt with that already.

Government has never limited itself. So I think that is sort of a pipe dream. Besides, can you name one government program that is a success?

"Once they're in, then yes, free markets determine labor prices and such. But advocating strong border control is COMPLETELY consistent with free-market conservatism."

Are you saying that politicians in Washington D.C. know exactly how many people is the right amount to let in?

Why not let each state set it own immigration policy? Since they border Mexico, I think it would be a better solution. It is consistent with Federalism, which conservatives used to talk about, although they didn't really believe in it.


shells...
damn straight.
I too live in Chicago and can't stand the fact that every single newspaper we have seems to slant their articles in a way that is sympathetic to illegals.
The raid in the mall was done spot on and according to the standard. From what I understand, the people they were after had hired hitmen in the past to kill off people who were making their illegal trade difficult.
I was listening to Jerry Agar this morning on WLS-AM. He went to the rally after his show yesterday to interview people and ask them questions. Today he played their responses.
They were silly.
He asked one woman why she was marching, and in broken english she talked about how immigrants work hard. He asked why they should change the laws to accomodate illegal aliens and she said that illegals aren't criminals. He asked her if she was legal and she said no, but she worked hard and wasn't a criminal. He asked her how she got a job if she wasn't legal and didn't break the law, since to work in this state you need paperwork, and she said no one asked her for paperwork.
He asked another woman, who was a legal immigrant, why if she thought it was fair that illegal aliens should be allowed to stay and her response baffled everyone: "Is the war in Iraq fair? A war started by lies?"
He pointed out that he didn't ask about the war and she prattled on about how people support illegal immigrants and want them here. When he brought up the polling data that showed that most americans are against illegal immigration, she said that the polls were asked of the wrong people.
This situation is out of control. It needs to be addressed now.
I think the best way to do it is to have ICE set up a waiting area at the location of their next march.
Round them up, ship them out.

$.02
Unfortunately, I live in a district (Washington 1st) with a left-wing communist congressman who is totally onboard with the invasion. I've called, emailed and confronted him at his townhall meetings to no afail. He is safe in his liberal district. What does one do? The Seattle Times refuses to print my letters or opinons because like all other media, they are onboard with the invasion. I fear we are heading down the road to revolution. I've never owned a gun but I'm starting to rethink my position on gun ownership. It is a shame that the 9/11 terroist didn't hit Congress instead of the trade towers.

LysanderSpooner
Individual State control of immigration is not practical.
Immigration laws affect National Security and SHOULD be uniformly enforced by our Federal Government.

I can understand why "The Democratic Socialists of America",
a government within our Government, refuses to protect our Borders because they represent a One World Government and have no allegence to America.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44701
What I can't understand is why Republicans also refuse to protect America's Borders.

Jeffislouise
LOL, I know! When I saw the marches, I shouted at the TV, "Hey! There they are! Get 'em!"

Of course, there would be another march and a riot involved if that happened. Chicago is done my friend.

Shells
We shoulda infiltrated the leadership, and then led the march into an underground garage and sealed it shut. Weed out the US citizens and send the illegals back. Give the US citizens who marched with them the option of a 25,000 fine for aiding and abetting felons or 5 years in a workfarm.

Slogans and Michelle
That Michelle is certainly a spitfire! Perhaps with its vast resources the New York Times might like to kick a few hundred million for the care and feeding of its beloved illegals? Nah!

I'm soliciting suggestions for a continuing series on my blog (click on name above) that deals with campaign slogans for all presidential candidates. From my childhood, I remember "I like Ike" and Goldwater's "In your heart, you know he's Right." I don't have any that good yet, but my first one appeared today: "Dennis Kucinich for President: Why Not a Dwarf?" My second, almost Ike-like one will appear tomorrow: "Yo Mama Loves Obama!"

So far, so good, but . . . Fred Thompson? Mitt Romney? Mike Gravel? Yikes. Help. Put your suggestions in my blog's comments section or e-mail me at TalkTop65@aol.com. Thanks, this should be fun for all.

steve

CC
Check my blog about 0630 or so tomorrow and check my essay on the twisted minds and thinking patterns of liberals. It definately highlights their circular logic and failed liberal theories.

Illegals MUST stay for dem survival
Look at it logically. Dems and liberals support any and all forms of death of the innocent. Abortion for the living but unborn, gun control brings death for those trying to protect their homes and families, terrorists want to kill all of us but dems believe that they will be able to control them somehow after they have killed everyone else, illegal aliens threaten the american way of life but dems believe they are wealthy enough to move to a better place like France when the USA becomes another hispanic toilet.

LysanderSpooner
You wrote: "No one's life, liberty or property is violated when a human being walks across the border."

I believe I supplied several instances of how immigration affects those: I mentioned public health (immigrants can bring diseases), public safety (immigrants may be criminals), and national security (immigrants may be terrorists). And then I added the fact that immigration may strain the community's ability to handle the needs of the population; overtaxing water, sewer, education and medical care supply. I don't recall that you ever discussed these things.

So I could just declare myself winner by default; but I'm more interested in knowing how you would address these matters without government intervention. I reassert that, as a conservative, I can and do believe government has a proper role in immigration without becoming a socialist.

You also wrote: "can you name one government program that is a success? "

Yes. The United States Armed Forces.

You wrote: "Are you saying that politicians in Washington D.C. know exactly how many people is the right amount to let in?"

Of course not. But it's the job of the executive branch to make that decision, and as a conservative, I view this as a proper function of government.

Finally, you asked: "Why not let each state set it own immigration policy?"

Because immigration across state lines is so easy.

What you're proposing is something akin to what was set up under the Articles of Confederation, circa 1779. The nation constituted under those articles lasted barely 10 years, and everybody agreed it was unworkable, and needed a stronger central government. I trust their experience on this; I believe in LIMITED federalism, but I do believe in federalism.

vulcan
"but dems believe they are wealthy enough to move to a better place like France when the USA becomes another hispanic toilet."

Just like they did in NYC. Turned it into a huge toilet, jacked up taxes, seized all of the guns, and then split to Conn/Vt/RI.

The cut and run party's domestic program at work.

Immigration Outrage!
I's so frustrated with the "they'll do the jobs Americans don't want to do" argument. How gullible do they think we are? I recently moved to Michigan, which has the highest unemployment rate in the nation, and have met scores of American citizens who would be thrilled to have any job! There are so many homes foreclosing in our area it is soo sad! These are hardworking middle-class families that are unemployed and losing their homes - why don't we see any articles about their truly sad stories?

Instead I have to be insulted by reading about the poor illegal immigrants who arrived here by breaking our law, received healthcare, welfare and education for free. It's an outrage!

I have to submit to being patted down and having all my personal belongings handled by strangers (are they all legal immigrants?) at the airport (that my tax dollars paid for) on my way home from visiting my mother, on a trip paid for with our hard earned, taxed money, while an illegal immigrant can sneak across our border with his mother, wife, kids, extended family without submitting to any security measures and received a job, free healthcare and free education in his language at the expense of all our families'! I'm so outraged at our government! I'm saddened to the point of tears as well. This doesn't seem like America anymore. It seems that citizens have no rights and illegal immigrants do. I'm also angry at myself that only recently have I become aware of what' going on. How did this get so bad? How come we didn't know about it. I lived in the L.A. area for 15 years (before that I lived on the East Coast), so I thought the immigration problem was an L.A. thing. Imagine my surprise to find out that even in Michigan we have illegal aliens on a seasonal basis, to work on the farms.

I know plenty of Americans who have done those jobs while supporting themselves from college and would do those jobs now.

I am concerned about how the illegal immigration problem with affect future generations. I can't just do nothing about it, but I honestly don't know what to do. And how to talk to others about the facts. Many people I know, including smart, educated people, believe what the media says and think I'm some sort of radical, mean activist type when I try to talk about this issue.

I'm a just a quiet, law-abiding mother and wife struggling to raise my son and provide him with some kind of a decent life now and in the future. I do not come from a privledged background, in fact we do not currently even own a house. But because I'm white no one feels sorry for me, instead there it must be my fault! It's ludicrous! (Not that I want sympathy - just a house, thank you).

Hey I have an idea - maybe I can go hire a bunch of illegals to build me a house really cheap!

In any case, I'm tired of paying taxes for "benefit" that I do not reap and have no say in the distribution of. I'm tired of paying taxes to a government that won't protect us and instead supports people who come here illegally, many of whom make our country more dangerous and threaten our way of life.

I was interested to learn before I left California, that 75% of the students in the L.A. Unified School District were Hispanic. How many of them do you think are illegal or have parents who are here illegally? Who pays for those schools? Homeowners who are American citizens. It's insane!

When is it going to stop!

Rewards for arrest of Illegals
MyOpine suggests the following:

Rewards for info on those who assist Illegal Aliens. Excellent idea. Unfortunately our politicians lack the courage to implement such ideas, and government agencies refuse to enforce laws now in existence. I’ve called the INS / “ICE” to report employers of Illegals. Nothing was done. After turning in 8 reports, with no enforcement, I no longer bother.

Mike
I feel your pain.

I've emailed the DoJ, ATF, and the FBI about NYC Mayor Bloomberg's highly illegal strawman gun buys in other states. Totally out of his baliwick and a serious felony.

No replies at all.

GunnyG
That Gonzales is just a girlyman stuffed shirt.
Bloomberg made a laughing stock out of him.

Now tell me how a Mayor can legally declair his city a sanctuary for Illegals?
Since when does a City Ordenance trump Federal Immigration Law?

He let that DSA bunch jerk him around like a puppet on a string and he had ample evidence to indict that entire DSA for TREASON!

Gonzales is a bad joke!

NOT a "victimless crime
When an illegal enters this country some or all of the following happen.

They must find a job or live on welfare. If they find a job they take a job that a legal resident would have gotten. They don't have an SS number of their own so they must steal someone else's. This is identity fraud - NOT a victimless crime. When they use someone else's SS number it can, and often does, effect the victim's credit record, not a victimless crime.

Illegals who don't work apply for welfare. Tax money that is given to il