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Wednesday, March 07, 2007
Michelle Malkin :: Townhall.com Columnist
The "Peace" Brigade vs. the Stryker Brigade
by Michelle Malkin
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Last week, I wrote about the Gathering of Eagles (www.gatheringofeagles.org) -- veterans, active-duty troops, bikers, activists and ordinary citizens coming to Washington, D.C., on March 17 to hold a counter-protest against tens of thousands of anti-war extremists demanding immediate withdrawal of our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan.

In Washington state this week, the peace brigade held a dress rehearsal at the Port of Tacoma -- where they showed support for our troops by taunting the Stryker Brigade and local police guarding against obstruction of the convoys headed to Iraq. More than 300 Stryker vehicles and other equipment are being moved from Fort Lewis to Iraq in support of the 4th Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division's upcoming deployment as part of the ongoing "surge" and counterinsurgency efforts. The Strykers are equipped with slat armor to protect the troops from rocket-propelled grenades.

Yes, the same ilk that purport to care so much about the troops not having enough armor and protection stood and jeered at those deploying to bring more protection to their fellow soldiers in Iraq.

Such patriots, aren't they?

Members of the anti-military mob shouted condescendingly at our volunteer soldiers rolling past them: "Free the troops!" "No justice, no peace!" "You don't have to go!" One lunatic with a bullhorn urged Stryker Brigade members to disobey their commanding officers and sneered: "Your sergeant is a douchebag!"

Such patriots, aren't they?

These same bullies staged obstructionist protests at the Port of Olympia in Washington last year -- blocking gates to prevent convoys from passing and attempting to tear down fencing following the arrival of a large military ship bound for Iraq. In April 2003, "peace" protesters waged similar attacks in Oakland, Calif., where they attempted to shut down a port involved in shipping military supplies to soldiers. The Bay Area anti-war brigade set out deliberately and specifically to prevent private businesses from fulfilling their federal contracts with the Department of Defense and U.S. Agency for International Development related to the war and post-war reconstruction in Iraq.

Such patriots, aren't they?

A mother of one of the Tacoma soldiers who rode silently past the spittle-spewers wrote to me earlier this week after seeing anti-war video of the mob scene uploaded on YouTube:

"My son was one of the Stryker soldiers who was moving the equipment to the port that night.

"These people are protesting the shipment of Strykers. Strykers are what keep our infantrymen alive in Iraq. They are agile, strong, and the newest ones have very accurate firepower. Once again, the moonbats say they support our troops, but not the war. They show it by insulting the troops' intelligence, calling their NCOs names, and telling them that they will die for nothing. Nice. I personally like to tell my son that he will come home alive and we will be reunited. These protesters sounded more like spoiled, self-centered, obnoxious brats to me. Yet, at the end of the line, there stand our troops. They are carrying the weight of the free world on their shoulders and they get to hear this mindless drivel before they deploy."

"The last big protest was at the Port of Olympia last year. The moonbats did damage to a fence around a yard that protects military equipment. The Strykers they were protesting that day were Strykers that were equipped with medical intervention equipment. The protesters were marching against medical supplies that our soldiers need desperately, and once again the very equipment that keeps our soldiers alive. It seems that there are two populations of people who hate Strykers: moonbats and insurgents."

Question their patriotism? You bet I do.

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About The Author

Michelle Malkin makes news and waves with a unique combination of investigative journalism and incisive commentary. She is the author of Unhinged: Exposing Liberals Gone Wild .

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Eagles give me hope
I hate that I can't be there with you, and I admire all of you that are making the sacrifices to help make a difference.
Please have all that are going send a press release to their local paper and all the major network news.
I love the way the left-wing press will cover any hate-America group, even if there are only 3 people involved. Take cameras and send the images to every outlet you can from youtube to protest warrior. The people there will be our only hope of getting the images of our "enemies of freedom" at their finest. We have to change the hearts of Americans before we can begin to change their minds. One award-winning image of a hate-monger spitting on any USA image can be the beginning of turning the tide.
I work in a Goverment High School where teachers organize marches against our military and against us, because children are so easy to fool.
Thank you Eagles for being there for us.

Mr Touchet
I don't understand your point. Are you saying this (a) did not happen (b) does not matter (c) is excusable under the circumstances (d) is acceptable because it is right.

It seems we need to ask an important question. (a) are we in a war? If not, what the heck is going on? If so, history shows that to achieve peace - something we all want - is to satisfy both sides.
In war, history shows that peace is achieved when both sides decide they will no longer fight. A permenant peace occurs when one side achieves overwhelming victory and the other side total defeat.
The best recent historical record of this involves the Zulu nation. They were a small peaceful tribe on the outskirts of a much larger, war-like tribe that was expanding by attacking and subjegating their neighbors.

Their leader realized the Zulu nation was faced with three alternatives: surrender and be slaves, fight and die or fight and win. Since they were a peaceful nation, they could not hope to fight and win unless something radical changed in the hearts and minds of the people.

The leader decided that the best thing for the nation was to fight and win; that way meant that there would be the least loss of life. He began to build an army that would be brave and fight to protect each other and fight to the death. But they had to learn to be skilled soldiers.

The training was single minded and brutal but the small army of Zulu soldiers that emerged was the best Africa had ever seen. Eventually the dreaded war arrived. The Zulu army emerged victorious against impossible odds. Many years later,the British army encountered the Zulu nation and found an honorable and valiant opponent but one that had no firearms or other weapons of modern warfare.

Eventually this proud. honorable nation was defeated, not because of anything but an unfair disadvantage in warfare. Today the Zulu nation is peaceful and still proud.

This brief peak into history shows that achieving real peace is not pleasant or easy. It shows that the proud and honorable do not always win. But real peace only happens under these "real world" circumstances.

Fake peace is achieved when war is waged like we did in Korea (where the basic issues are still unresolved half a century later. If that is peace, please explain what is going on right now.

I ask, do we want real peace or fake peace? Can we learn from history or are we doomed to repeat it?

Travis Air Base
Michelle's column really brought back memories...September 1970 at Travis Air Base in California. There was a group of barracks near the border of the base, closed in by chainlink fence. These barracks were specifically for soldiers waiting for their flights to Vietnam. I remember the lunatics gathering at the fence just outside the base. They were shouting things like "you don't have to go!" "climb the fence and desert!" I assume some soldiers may have go over the fence, it certainly was not unheard of, but in the few days I was there I never saw any. The most insulting comments came when no soldier climbed the fence. These animals had the unmitigated gall to call us "cowards" for not deserting the Army.

Trespassing
Is it out of line to use "appropriate force" to protect this materiel from being damaged? How many of these "supporters of the troops" would continue to "show their support" if they knew that the troops involved had been granted permission to "protect the shipments" from "hostile elements?"

Duplicity from the left is really nothing new. It's simply unfortunate that these elements have so much free time and so little intellect with which to put that time to good use.

Kim
You mention Ann Coulter A LOT.

Speaking of which, we're within the 24-hour countdown to her column. Will you PLEASE use the word "bloviate"? It turns me on. Thanks!

Kimmie
"...Malkin is focusing all her mighty shrillings towards a group that basically represents the sentiments of the majority of Americans today."

Are you that daft that you believe the majority of Americans approve of stopping military shipments and spitting on soldiers?

I see you can't get off the word "shrill", not doubt since that is your main virtue, being shrill.

Kimmy
You sure do continue the clown parade!

Emotional Juggler
Might I inquire as to just what an "emotional juggler" is? Could this be one who cries at the sight of flaming bowling pins?

And Kimberly: What does this have to do with the Libby sham trial? He'll do a little time in-between the appeal process and the 2008 election, and after those numbers are safely in the books, W will go "Frank Rich" (and all the other real criminals that BJ Clinton pardoned at 11:59p) on him and he'll go free...which is where he would be today if not for a jury led by a Washington Post writer and the criminalization of memory advocated by S.P. Fitzgerald. When politico-litigants attack, indeed.

Of course the only similarity between the two is that Libby is actually the victim of a runaway jury, an innocent man convicted (think the opposite of O.J.), while Rich was an actual criminal pardoned by an actual criminal (an impeached perjurer).

Kimberly
So Moore-ish of you to tie Malkin to Coulter,

Are you going to be in DC trying to throw garbage at the Vietnam Veteran's memorial.

Or did you support the San Francisco board when they decided they could not lat a (gasp!) warship from WWII be decommissioned and berth in their harbor. And no ROTC in their schools. \

PS They have not figured out that many times change come from within. Beating up from the outside tends to make any group more cohesive.

Protesters
I was once called a baby killer by a protestor in Aggieville, Manhattan, Kansas where I was quietly drinking a beer in 1976.

I hear he spent three days in the hospital and got the cast off his wrist in about 6 weeks.

Should start doing that, again.......

Question their patriotism? You bet I do!
As a Staunch Conservative Christian Republican, you bet Michelle, I question your patriotism and that of the Commander in Chief who totally ignores his most experienced Father in all that America is all about the world over and at home and claiming that he in essence has a direct line to God Himself and also, his Secretary of State, a man who with years of experience on the battle field and many other military man including generals, who were completely against going into Iraq. Yes, listens to a bunch of idiotic Hitleristic Imperialists, who were so stupid on top of it and go to war like it was playing a nintendo game on the computer, believing that every single Iraqui would greet them with roses thrown at time after taking down the statue of Saddam. Until you clean out you spitfiring tongue and speak truth, you had better shut up and the sooner the better. America, will be the better for it.

Kim
I enjoyed your multiple postings, of the same rant over and over and over...
Michelle was juggling our emotions? Wow, she is good.
I think you meant going for the emotional jugular, and not tossing our emotions up and down? Just curious.
Distract from the Walter Reed debacle, or from poor Scooter facing hard time? I don't think so. I think it's more informative on the left's true feelings about the US and our troops.
Taproot

Gene Touchet, as Vaquero points out,...
...misses the relevant distinction that these tools aid the enemy, Coulter and the conservatives do not. It matters to some of us.

A soldier
was spit on during the Jihad Jane war protest that took place a while ago. He came on Hannity and talked about what happened to him. It's already happening and for people like Kimbat she doesn't want to face the truth about what her ilk are up to.

Who Keeps flagging me? Hey FactsR
I am going to keep posting it til the cows come home....Kimberly, you should go to youtube and see how Michelle does not flail like you....try the search gathering of eagles/malkin. You are a sorry inidividual!!
"Screaming Monkey Syndrome" (Kimberly, et al, now- as described by GunnyG)
That is, they arrive...
they scream loudly...
FLAIL about spectacularly...
flings poop in every direction...

and then retires to the cave...

And my poem of understanding the "Screaming Monkey Syndrome"(by Nee, revised)

See the monkeys in the cave,
all night waiting to rant and rave
Will they screech, will they scream
We know they will, but we can dream
See the monkeys in the cave,
Oooh to scream and rant and rave!

Hey factsR: You can be I will, with some to spare fer ya!

Kimbat
The subject here being addressed is the anti-troop sentiment by the left. Not the other subjects you are bringing up. I'm sure there are other threads on those subjects where you can inflict your usual ugly, venomous thoughts.

What happened
to all the posts in this thread prior to 9:57 AM -
Is my browser acting up or are the stoopid moonbats out in their SHUT YOUR MOUTH free-speech force?

I think the vitriole
that Kimbat spouts is comparable to the uncomfortable feelings she has over the truth being put into her face which she doesn't like. The more she squeals the more upsetting the article is to her. Truth hurts.

getting together
Remember, I said yews yer brainz...


tango oscar whiskey november hotel alpha lima lima golf alpha tango hotel echo romeo india november golf alpha tango golf mike alpha india lima delta oscar tango charlie oscar mike.
Promise you'll get any and all info you need to meet us.

Gathering of Eagles/Move America Forward
These two great organizations are combining efforts for the pro troop rally in DC on March 17th. Move America Forward has organized a caravan that starts tomorrow in SF and ends on the 17th in DC. There are about 20 stops scheduled for the caravan. If you can't be in DC on the 17th to show your support go to one of the rallys. You can find the information here:
http://www.moveamericaforward.org/
http://gatheringofeagles.org/

Oh give it a rest Kimberly.
"And the clown parade continues." Yes it does. Go here for pictures; http://www.zombietime.com .

The Leftinistra clowns are little more than cowards and traitors. Insanity is the rule of the day for you clowns. You sit in your rat holes until it's time for your clown brigades to come out and display their utter stupidity by trashing veterans memorials, passing on their hate to the true Patriots preparing to go fight for their right to do so.

STFD Kimmberly and STFU. Clown.

Go read your lefty news rag or turn on your idiot box and watch the MSM aka Weapons of Mass Distortion like NBC, CBS, or ABC. There you may find comfort that all is well in your pathetic little world.

You low life scum bags call yourselves Americans and Patriots. You are neither.
The gloves are off clown. When your vermin show up at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in DC we will be there...in force.

The time for being civil and reasonable with you a$$ clowns is over.

You can accuse me of venting the same vitriol that goes on at Daily Kos and the rest of left wing moonbat outposts but the time for being nice is over.

Jimbo
I'm having the same trouble...someone must be flagging...

jimbo
The site is acting up today. I can't even post on my own blog. Something is not working right on here today. And, some of my posts have just disappeared. I don't think it has anything to do with shutting down free speech.

Kimberly
Your an idiot!

solo
Amen to your post. It's time we take the gloves off.
I'm sick to death of the left aiding and abetting the enemy. That's why they start screaming so much because they don't like to see how their actions are hurting the troops and their mission.

nee
I've tried that and it doesn't go anywhere.

Okay Pepper -
Just like the silly liberals blame Bush for every heart-ache; I blame moonbats.
:-)

Kim Philbin
you assert that the scum "represent the majority of the American people" really?
Do the majority of the American people want to deride and insult - and worse throw their trash at our soldiers?
Idiotic!! but why go on - it's just agitprop crap

Remember Folks
The Lefties want the ISSUE: They don't give a rats derriere for REAL SOLUTIONS.

On Libby: Convicted of perjury and obstruction of 'justice' for a non-crime. Plus the Wilson's are court shopping for their 'civil' suit against him as well. Make no mistake: Even if Bush were to do the honorable thing at pardon him, they WILL find both a judge and a 'jury of his peers' to ruin him financially. All for the unforgivable sin of not playing up to the reporters...

On Kimberly: She is giddy with glee at what Malkin reported, which is why she is so effluvial in her repeated screeds ATTACKING Ms. Malkin PERSONALLY. Apparently the 'politics of personal destruction' are only 'vile and unforgiveable' when FACTS are used to discredit LEFTIST 'progressive socialist' types: Like the Supreme Anointed One. When applied to heretics and apostates of the One True Revelation they are just 'engaging in free speech' and we must 'respect their point of view' to 'understand them better'. (Never mind that they REFUSE to return the consideration at EVERY TURN).

As to Kimberly and Walter Reed - I wonder if she will deliver rats to the next wounded Veteran she sees; no doubt she was quite cheered by the disgusting site. After all, the idiots 'volunteered' to serve and got what they deserved...

Sometimes, Kim, you make me and the rest of the Vets here on TH sick with loathing. Yes, you have the right to express your views. You do NOT have the right to insist that I or anyone else here share or even respect them. Particularly when they are arrant nonsense.

I'm going to throw up now. Then I am going to bed; I've had an extremely long day working to provide communications services to the troops you so obviously 'respect'

jimbo
Yeah, there are double posts all over the place and posts disappearing. I still can't get to my own blog. I think the TH server may be overwhelmed.

Kimberly
Madam, you are giving thinking liberals a bad name. I suspect that you consider Joe Lieberman a traitor, yet in the breadth of his record you can only find his concern for National Security as a match to conservative goals.

Now here you are, banging away at your keyboard like a monkey on a mescaline & methamphetamine cocktail. Do you really believe your long winded rants change the opinions of any readers? Please, try to add to the conversation with a sailient opposing point of view. As it stands now, each diatribe you post reduces the sum of human knowledge.


he "Peace" Brigade.....
Picture if you will, this same type of lunacy being enacted against the 'military' in....
Iran? Syria? North Korea? Cuba? hell, even Israel (although at least in Israel the media would cover it).

Pep
Of course it is overwhelmed: they apparently forgot that Ms. Malkin generates incredible amounts of Kimber-waste.

They need three servers dedicated to Her alone on Wed/Thr...

General observation
have you ever noticed that whenever problems are close to having real solutions enacted, the screeds from the Left get both louder and more personal? Not too mention far less reasonable and sane...

Kimberly:
Who is the disenfranchised majority? Are you again trying to say there has been voter suppression? If so, where, and by whom? I only saw the libs cry about vote suppression in the early hours of election day 2006, waging their pre emptive war on non-existent voter suppression. Yeah, all those imaginary foot soldiers standing in front of the polling places with orders to shoot people wearing pro-demo buttons. Sure.

Sentry
try again- I tested it...townhallgathering@gmail.com

Dash
Yes, it does appear that when Malkin's articles and Ann's come out, there are problems. Kimberly's rants bog the server down I assume. :-)

Walter Reed
The WR fiasco is a glimpse of the future for all U.S. health care if and when socialized medicine becomes the law of the land. Beware, and vote accordingly.

Cheers.

Nee
I must be doing something wrong. Is it in Google gmail? I even created a gmail account and did a search.

Ugh....
a fantastic article from Michelle Malkin. Nice work!
'kimberly' writes about how these people represent the 'majority' of Americans. Not that I can see.
Just yesterday I was describing my intense distaste for the Democratic party and explaining why I decided to longer affiliate myself with them based on their incessant Bush bashing and anti-american sentiment only to be rebuked! These twits worked HARD to explain that those on the far left don't represent the mainstream liberal values. What values? And yes, they do. The left in this country has been overrun by the far left in this country.
These idiots do and say whatever they can to relieve themselves of the guilt associated with doing wrong by attempting to distance themselves. Yet here we see an example of awful, unpatriotic liberal ideology. Unfettered by logic or morality, the left in this country thinks it's just great to bash our President by calling him names. They think it is patriotic to call our President an idiot. They think it is just fine to try and cut funding for weapons, armor and other military supplies while proclaiming their love for the troops. They talk about supporting our troops then call their sacrifices wasted and claiming they are nothing more than mercenaries and should be happy American's aren't spitting on them. You know, like the liberals of the 60's did to soldiers returning from Vietnam. Very supportive of the troops.
Now this group, with all the armor they need, supplies they need, ammo and weapons they need, prepare to deploy and they deride them, call their officers names, and admonish them as brainless tools of the President.
Way to support the troops.
After spending 13 years of my life supporting Democratic politicians, policies, and ideas I can no longer stomach the party I once loved lying in it's own feces.
Democrats, you are on notice. More and more of us are leaving, some of us running and screaming. You are losing the moderates who were attracted to your social ideas and only gaining a small, vocal, anti-american vote.
The most 'open and honest' congress in history has already begun to show their true colors, hiding pork in nearly every piece of legislation produced. And the people who voted for these people refuse to acknowledge it. Want money to help Katrina victims? Check the supplemental war spending bill - the dems hid it there. Want to subsidize the citrus industry? It's in the supplemental war spending bill - again, thanks for hiding it there dems. Want to push anything through that you don't really have a plan for? It's in the bill, hidden there by a party with one agenda - embarrass the President and get political power.
The left is lost. Even in Kimberly's post, she resorts to personally attacking Michelle Malkin, saying she is 'focusing her mighty shrillings' and accuses her of being 'coultersque', which is apparently intended as an insult.
Way to make your point about how wrong Malkin is. COuld that be because she is right?
Of course it is.

Michelle's article a nice reminder
of why I detest the cowardly hypocrits who would never place "I don't support our troops" bumper stickers on their electric cars for fear of a one-on-one with a vet, or a parent or sibling of an active duty service member, but show up in mass to yell and spew and spit...

Oh, to recall my father's account (may he rest in peace)of returning from Vietnam, after having put his life on the line, and being met at the airport with the likes of which Michelle speaks...

The very military that they despise down deep inside protects their freedom to speak and act in such a manner.

They truly make me sick.


Hmmm
Kimberly sure has a problem with conservative attractive women...doesn't she? I wonder why?

news hound
I can sympathize with you. God bless your father's soul.
My brother came back from Vietnam, arriving in San Fran, only to be spit on and called "baby killer".
Demoralizing can not even describe the feelings. My brother was unable to talk about it for years.

That is one reason some of us get so angered over this return to bashing our military. We know what it was like back then. We don't want it happening again, but it seems the far left never grows up. They don't take any responsibility for their actions. They don't learn from the past how it emboldened the enemy then and it is doing the same now.

As an aside...
Laura Ingraham's website has come under cyber attack. A friend of yours, Kimbat?

Wish I could, Glad I can't.
Old age & health prevent me from being in D.C. on the 17th.
Patriotic rage would probobly get me thrown in jail anyway.

Those enemy collaborators are a danger to America and should not be allowed to remain free to harm us.
They hate America just as much as the IslamoNazi and we have no guarantee they won't start blowing up school busses & shopping malls.
They should be interned for the duration of this war and then tried for treason.

March 17th...
As I live in Sterling, and I am a Navy veteran, I'll be there standing tall and proud.

Kimberly...
Reading your particularly nonsensical rants, and reading the commentary of disdain and disappointment by fellow Democrats, I have come to one incontrovertible conclusion:

You are walking talking proof of irreversibly progressive depletion of the global gene pool!

Dude3344 Lynne
Thank you. And I finished the beer. Was fun, too!

Server problem
Earlier I tried to access another TW site and got a "server too busy" message.

With all the
controversial articles on TH today it's no wonder there is a server busy problem. Pat Buchanan has written one of his usual diatribes about Libby and the war party.

I get it
So, our brave men and women are fighting over there to protect the very freedom we enjoy to speak our minds and express disagreement. But when we do, its defeatism, unpatriotic and not supporting our troops and we should not be saying it. But, but..you just said that they are fighting to protect my right to express disagreement..You flaming liberal..dont confuse me with logic ..Michelle is just trying to rile up the base with whatever she can muster.

By the way, did you all know, Michelle was so incensed that she grabbed her husband and they went and enlisted in the military that very same day!

Jeffislouie - so glad you're joining us!
Thanks for the article Ms. Malkin. Keep shining the light. Darkness HATES light.

God bless our military.

Re: Libby
It looks to me like he may be able to mount a valid appeal.

How many times has the 9th Circuit ( or any other court for that matter) overturned a case because a juror expressed a bias and did not admit to it due the initial questioning of the jury?

We'll wait and see. If Bush pardons him, fine. After WJC's pardoning of Rich and other such persons, the left can complain, but it is the privilege of the President whether you like him or not.

I hate Kimberly
I hate Kimberly and all of her ilk. If I didn't have to be in Seattle to present a paper, I would be in Washington with the Gathering of Eagles. I hope lots of people show up. As a retired military vet, I hate these hypocrites who say "we support the troops but not their mission". What a load of crapola. I can't bear to watch the peace rallies because having watched this same crap in the '60's it just makes me sick that we have so many wackos living here who don't even appreciate the greatest country on the face of the earth. Case in point: I used to love to watch the Lethal Weapon movies. Now watching Danny GLover after he has fawned over Castro and Chavez makes me want to vomit. Free speech is great, but the left is abusing the privilege. We are in a war for our lives. You'd think they would appreciate it that. But all the drugs they take probably interfere with their higher mental functioning.

P.S.
Today I flagged all of Kimberly's posts as offensive. I am going to continue to do that from now on. I suggest all of us do it so we don't have to read her crap.

When.....
.....is TH going to drop Kimberly the puke down a black hole?

I am sick and tired of her drivel. Every conserv here should be demanding her removal.

Does she ever have anything but hatred to vommit onto this website?

Come on TH! Get rid of this un-American POS! I don't come here to read how worthless our country and soldiers are.

I come here for truth. These left wing moonbats don't have a CLUE what TRUTH is!

Royale, if you were really a...

"As a Staunch Conservative Christian Republican,..." you wouldn't have to remind us of it. I've never heard such a person use terms like, "idiotic Hitleristic Imperialists," unless they were quoting a leftist. Lame try.



Are you unpatriotic? Maybe. Are you a disloyal fraud? Certainly.

Our military vs us?
A rambling related thought: With the continuing global economy agenda, I suspect the elitists have made a serious miscalculation: I cannot see our military wholesale turning on the citizens of this country. Not yet.

Heads up, soldiers, airmen, marines. I fear it is coming.

The ranting moonbat sector and the soon-to-be-legal millions of illegals have been allowed to get so out of control to make these the continuing cracks in military forces vs citizens applied by our lovely elitist leaders. Ruby Ridge? Waco? New Orleans? Patriot Act? Erosion of personal liberty in the name of the collective good. Aarrghh. Yes, I'm convinced.

I am NOT happy to have to think this. Historians and patriots, correct me if I'm wrong? I SURE would like to be wrong about this one.

Shine a light like Ms. Malkin is doing. We're not done yet. There are still God-honoring folk with the power of prayer. God's people, pray, pray for revival.

What does "free speech"
have to do with "spitting" on our soldiers? I ask this of some poster that implied free speech is being squelched.

Free speech comes with responsibility. If the left wants to be irresponsible and abet the enemy, then they had better be ready to get blasted for it.

Peppermint
Thanks for the warm sentiment. My father rarely spoke about Vietnam or his return b/c it caused him so much pain, but the same thing happened to him that happened to your brother. God bless your brother, as well. Thank him for his service (and I mean it) the next time you see him.

You are right on about how the libs never grow up, but now we have the aging hippies and their kids. History is repeating itself.

They may have the right to speak and protest, but by golly, I don't have to like it!

Dsmith
You have every right to say any stupid thing you want. And I have every right to call you a defeatist anti-American fool.

Why does that fact upset and confuse most leftists?

Perppermint
I agree with the spitting comment. The left has spent a lot of legal effort to confuse the line between speech and action, and that is the result. Somehow burning a flag, spitting on soldiers and any other act is a form of "speech".

Funny, I thought speech involved voice and words. But the enlightened minds of the supreme court have now told me differently, so I must be wrong.

Oops
That should read peppermint. Sorry for the typo.

news hound and dude
Thanks. I will convey your kind words to my brother. I also had an uncle killed in Vietnam.

What the left doesn't get is that every time they wage one of their "peace" wars on the American military, they are hurting every soldier and his family. Like your father suffered so did my brother and the rest of us.

Dude,
Common decency. That is such a good choice of words.
Just where is these people's decency? There seems to be none. All they seem capable of is venting their hatred and venom at our soldiers. I just don't understand the psyche of people like this.


andrews
You are so right. The first amendment has been so perverted.

The left interprets their "rights" in a strange manner to say the least. And, frankly, I'm getting awfully sick of this perversion where everything is ok because one's right to free speech is being tred on. It is getting to be a ridiculous argument.

One minute Ann Coulter gets bashed for saying the f word, but spitting on soldiers is ok?

What have we come to in this country?

Proof?
Kimberly writes: "...there is NEVER legitimate proof of such antics.

I guess the eyewitness and personal report of an Iraq disabled veteran being spit on it NOT LEGITIMATE PROOF in the liberal world of kimberly.

However this type of consistent (disgusting) behavior by "protesters" against those who disagree with them is clearly seen by those not blinded by the liberal bovine excrement.

Common decency has gone the way of
integrity, honor and character: on the left they are becoming extinct.

The Viet Nam vets were so mistreated by the left it became a national shame. We sure don't need a repeat of that vile filth. That was a despicable homecoming for our warriors.

My best to your loved ones, condolences for those who are gone.

With the privilege
It bears repeating,
with the privilege ( right) of freedom of speech comes responsibility and consequences.
You can say you're ashamed of Bush but be prepared for the consequences (lost record sales, negative e-mail).
You may yell at me and threaten me, but don't be surprised if you are arrested for assault or someone takes it personally and yells back.

End of lesson.

Sheep in wolves clothing?
Royale writes: "...As a Staunch Conservative Christian Republican..."

Translated means: ...I am a Liberal Humanist Democrat...

Spitting on a soldier
is one of the most vile acts one can commit in my book. How would these peace protesters like it if the other side were to spit on them? Here's what I submit the hard left protester would do:

They would yell and scream, demanding that the spitter be jailed.

Next they would get the ACLU to ban all pro military marchers.

Then, they would get themselves a John Edwards ambulance chasing lawyer to sue the person who spit on them.

"Rand"y
I disagree with what Kimberly has to say but don't think that banning her is the way to go. As bad as we may thing it is, she has the right to say it. You don't have to read her posts. If we all just ignore her she will eventually go away.

Dude
I think our minds are working in tandem today.

Kimberly needs to grow up thats all....!
I don't know how old Kimberly is physically, but I can tell by her rants and shrill she is about 14 maybe 15 emotionally. My daughter is 24 yrs old, she is in the U.S. Army, 101st Air Borne and has served 2 tours in Iraq since the beginning of the war. She serves her country because that is what she signed up to do. She volunteered to join the U.S.Army, she new that she might have to go to war one day. She has accepted the fact the she did have to go to war to help others gain their freedom and she realized when she got there on her first tour she was not only wanted there by the Iraqi people but NEEDED by the Iraqi people. Her mother and I worried constantly about her being there and when we would tell he this she would tell us don't worry I'll be fine. Her compound was hit with mortar fire many times but she still came home to us and the family. I served during Vietnam, my father served during Korea and Vietnam. We had no influence on her decision to join and serve her country. She came home day and told us she had joined. Kimberly, you on the other hand would probably run from any responsibility leveled on your shoulders. You run your mouth, speaking of things you know little about except what your friends tell you you know. Hope mommy and daddy are keeping a real close eye on you, because if left to your own devices, well who knows you might not be long for this world. GROW THE HELL UP, listen and learn, and make up your own mind instead of letting someone else steer your beliefs and words.

standtall- Gene Touchet
Standtall- great post. Gene , i guess your correct we should wait a few days to see if it really happened. Michelle is probabley making this up because she supposedly has a record of doing this. The record is (i guess) one time in 2004 on the unbiased Chris M show. Good point.

Libby vrs. Berger
I bet Kimberly can't wait for Sandy Berger to be brought up on treason charges for stealing top secret documents. After all, Kimbabe is all a-twitter over Libby getting the judical gavel knocked on his head.

Sandy Berger stuffs classified documents in his socks and pants, then drops of the documents near a construction trailer.

Where's her outrage?

Oh, I forgot...Berger=Democrat Liberal=it's OK

Libby=Republican="HANG HIS A$$!"


Kimberly is evil
There is no other way to explain her/his/its behavior. To consistantly come here and hurl insults and make attacks on the columnists and posters here can be explained no other way.

Only a person full of spite and malice would continue to do this day after day. There is no attempt on her/his/its part to patiently teach us of the folly of our ways. One can only conclude that her/his/its heart is full of hate and scorn for us, her/his/its fellow human beings.

May God forgive Kimberly for such evil thoughts and deeds.

Another canard by the left
that posts on here is that we conservatives have no right to speak about supporting the troops unless we served. Never mind that they haven't served in the military.

But, what really gets me is they have no idea who they are speaking to. Many of the people on this board have served in the military or are now serving.

On top of that any family members who have had loved ones go to war have all served too. If the left doesn't think the family members don't suffer when their loved ones are in war, they don't have any sense at all.

I recall spending 13 months in agony when my best friend, my brother, was in Vietnam. Anybody here who also has had this experience knows what I'm talking about. You don't sleep, you don't eat. All you do is worry, it's always in the back of your mind about your loved one.

Not only do our soldiers in Iraq need our support, all of their family members need our support also. To watch these peace protesters shouting down our soldiers and spitting on them is a horrible knife in the heart of all involved.

ridly
God bless and watch over your daughter and thanks for serving our country.

The likes of Kimbat are an embarrassment to all of us.

free speech? Very much alive...
To the loons from the left who question the state of free speech...
Yes. The troops defend your right to say what you wish.
However, you misguided fools, EVERYONE who is a citizen of the US has that right.
Which means that when you criticize our troops, give comfort to the enemy, and give hope to those who would happily see you and your family bleed to death, right thinking American's have EVERY RIGHT to call you unpatriotic, unamerican, and anti-military.
THAT is free speech at it's finest.
"Dsmith writes: Wednesday, March, 07, 2007 12:24 PM
I get it
So, our brave men and women are fighting over there to protect the very freedom we enjoy to speak our minds and express disagreement. But when we do, its defeatism, unpatriotic and not supporting our troops and we should not be saying it. "

Correct. That is right. You should not be saying it. But no one is working to remove your right to. If you don't like it that so many so vehemently oppose your nonsensical views, don't post them on a public forum.
The trouble is that instead of doing so respectfully, you do so with no regard for the troops (i.e. protesting when we send armor or medical supplies to the troops) or their well-being (i.e. calling them names).
Typical lefty - accuse people of trying to limit your free speech when they use theirs.
Nonsense!
Free speech runs both ways. You want to criticize the administration and secretly sabotage their plans? Be prepared for people who agree with the administration to call you out on it.
Don't like being called unpatriotic? Stop rooting for us to lose the war on terror. Stop pretending to be in support of the troops while protesting them. I support freedom of speech, but not by protesting for limits of free speech. I support the war on terror, but not by protesting homeland security. I support stricter immigration laws and enforcement, but not by protesting against the minutemen.
Liberals seem to have multiple mouths. They say one thing, then quickly contradict themselves.
It's another case of free speech for me, but not you. Posters like Kimmie should feel free to make accusations and deride our President, but no one is allowed to disagree with her. That makes sense. To a liberal.

a confusion cleared up/GOE
For any townhall bloggers who plan on being in DC...we have tried to connect and get meeting points, how many people,where...etc... I set up an email account just for that. So, If you have ???, go there, I will sort of be the moderator in email to disseminate info. I will keep all your info confidential or ya know, you can sue me!! townhallgathering@gmail.com
Trolls not welcome.

Kimberly
Guys this isnt difficult , when you see her name at the top of a post keep going! Thats what i do!

Jeffislouie
Good post.

The left thinks "free speech" means never getting a reply to their odious comments.

The left's mantra is let me speak whatever I want but don't you dare and say anything back. A reply to their bs means you're stepping on their right to free speech. Ignorant morons!


Most Americans want to win the war
It's a funny thing about polls, depending on how the question is asked you may get some very misleading answers.

For instence polls that suggest that most Amercan's don't approve of Pres. Bush's handeling of the war would suggest that most Americans want to cut and run, however a good many of those Americans don't approve because they think he's not fighting it agressivly enough.

Further I think that the daily undermining of the President's credibility by the left wing media and congressional law makers who continualy call him a lier is tantamount to commiting treason. And should be acted upon as such. of course if anyone has any proof that the President lied they should bring it forward and begen impeachment proccedings, otherwise they should be forced to shut their mouth.

WE ARE AT WAR PEOPLE !!!!

AND ITS NOT BUSH'S WAR, ITS AMERICA'S WAR.

THE STATUS QUO IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND PERSIAN GULF WAS WHAT BROUGHT US 9/11, SADDAM HUSSAIN WAS PART OF THAT STATUS QUO.

Kimberly: Sentiments of Majority?
“In perfect Coulteresque 'cat fit', Malkin is focusing all her mighty shrillings towards a group that basically represents the sentiments of the majority of Americans today…”

+The “group sentiments” to which you allude may conform to those expressed by your enlightened “international Socialist” (iNazi’s) cloister firmly ensconced in the “People’s Republic of Connecticut”, but such sentiments do not conform to those expressed by the rest of contemporary America- derisively termed the “fly over” states by the MSM. Kimberly, do us all a favor and obtain a “real job”, i.e., a position that actually requires analytical reasoning involving a concept foreign to your pedestrian intellect: utilizing FACTS during the course of an iterative discussion vice esoteric rhetoric. A position that is lucrative enough to allow you to pay your far share of income taxes IOT support the socialist paradise you obviously advocate. You might even learn to appreciate those viewpoints outside of your overprivileged feminist- iNazi myopia.
+That being said where were the leftist “peaceniks” during the many Clinton “military misadventures”? Let’s see: un-necessary wars waged for the following reasons:
(a) No strategic value other than UN/European popular opinion:
-Our misadventures in Bosnia (Bombing/killing hundreds if not thousands of innocent women & children in Belgrade)
-Our misadventures in Somalia, where several US Rangers/Delta force soldiers were killed because the Clinton administration wouldn’t authorize the use of armored vehicles (too OFFENSIVE you know)
(b) Racial politics: Black congressional caucus playing the race card & invading Haiti IOT put their pet Marxist thug, Aristide, back in power in Haiti.

+We’re still in Bosnia & Haiti- where’s our exit strategy, Kimberly? Please enlighten me. I’m quite sure that MENSA counts its many blessing having you on its distinguished rolls.

Dude...Jefflouie, all righties
A man after my own heart...I will never let Monkey girl or monkey boy talk any bs about their support of the troops all the while dropping guano on the ones they know are serving. Monkey girl's "last time I checked, I was still free attitude" makes me want to open up a can of whoopass!!

Jeff, that is a superb post!!! And,quite eloquent I might add.

Does anyone besides me miss Loyal Democrat? We should all send some thought wherever he is...or would that be too mystical and religious for the lefties? Toughscheisse! LD, be alert,stay strong, carry on! We got your back, on this side of the ocean...

Demosthenes
I don't think Kimbat could qualify with that job description you gave. Her talents don't go beyond her shrill squeaks at TH.
Squeakkkkkkk..........as she falls to her doom.

Nee and Dude
I like having Kimbat post her nonsense on here so we can all be reminded what we are fighting about. The left, without hearing their strained, convoluted thinking, cannot be left to pounce all over the rest of us.

Yeah, why are we still in Bosnia? Interesting that is never brought up by anyone about what our exit strategy is on that one. Gee, couldn't the troops there be better fighting in Afghanistan going after the left's boogeyman bin Laden? They want him soooo bad. They think if we get him this war is over. Duh!

Dude
You are absolutely right. If a nuke goes off here the left will scream bloody murder that GW didn't do what was necessary to keep us safe. There is no doubt in my mind.

They will attribute no responsibility whatsoever to their dhimmies who are emboldening the enemy and making us look like the Paper Tiger bin Laden said we were.

Their first strike will be that GW didn't get bin Laden so there you have it. They seem to have a one track mind, like bin Laden is the only terrorist out there.

btw, NATO caught a big Taliban leader in Afghanistan today. What do you want to bet the MSM won't cover that?

Lynne...
I'm not sure how many will be there. I've been reading posts at "GatheringofEagles" and is seems that caravans are forming and hitting the road from all over the country. My thought is that the numbers will be significant.

I'm not sure where I'll be, I'll arrive and get assigned and then do what we're there to do. Perhaps I'll see you there. That would be decidedly cool.

Ciao,

Mike

tunneler
Is this being televised? I can't go but I sure want to watch it.

Peppermint
The reason Kimberly's posts seem so goofy is she just skips to the end of the thread and posts whatever enters her mind.

I was JUST KRUSHED monday when Kimberly made a post that proved she had not read my previous post. I pouted the rest of the evening.

Then I noticed she rarely reads any of the posts and sometimes she does not even bother to read the article.
I have dried my tears and quit pouting.
I feel much better knowing that Kimberly is not discriminating against me.

Peppermint..
I'm not sure if it's being covered or not. I know that the dinosaur media will be covering the anti war crowd, as nauseam, and so perhaps we'll get a bone as well.

Lynne...
Thanks for the base of operations info!

tunneler and MyOpine
Thanks. I'll look at Cspan. They might have it. Maybe I'll catch some of you brave ones there. Should I recognize Lynne by the one who is doing the punching? Just a joke Lynne!! :-)

MyOpine,
You're funny. I saw that post you left Kimbat. I have noticed she doesn't read anything either for the most part. Sometimes she responds to some posts. It depends on who gets under her skin the most. I always enjoy when she attacks me. LOL

Dude
Yeah, I think they are laying the groundwork. Let's face it. No matter what happens it's GW's fault.

What I find really funny is that the MSM doesn't realize how much power they attribute to him by laying everything at his feet. They basically are saying that no one has any power other than GW, even God has less power. LOL

Dude
That is a great suggestion. I'm so upset I can't go.

You guys need to get all the spits on tape too. Then put them on UTube for all to see. We know the MSM won't show any of the spitballs being flung.

Right way vs. wrong way
Kimberly, I could not agree with you more that our eforts in Iraq are a huge mistake viewed from almost every perspective, geopolitically, strategically and tactically.

But it is not the troops that are to blame. To the extent that those who disagree with our policies are blaming these brave, partiotic men and women, they do our troops, themselves and our country a disservice.

Our military does not set policy. They simply carry it out to the best of their ability. They are the best-trained, most professional fighting force in the world and we are fortunate to have men and women of their integrity and dedication protecting our nation from its enemies.

Moreover, if you look at our cadre of present and former senior military leaders, they are among the smartest, most insightful people I have come across. Besides having "been there and done that" in their military careers, most have studied warfare from Sun Tzu to Clausewitz to Rommel. And many also hold advanced degrees from our most prestigious universities. You will find that some of the most telling criticism of our efforts in Iraq come from these people, many of whom have grave doubts today about the wisdom and utility of our policies in the Middle East. If you want factual analysis, go to the Army War College's Strategic Studies Institute web site and read how the Army has already moved past the political rock-throwing to internalize the lessons learned from Afghanistan and Iraq so we won't make the same military mistakes again.

If blame is to be assessed for the fiasco in Iraq, it has to be laid at the feet of our civilian leadership. If they had half the sense and experience of our scholar-warfighters, we wouldn't be in the quagmire of Iraq today.

Although I am a frequent poster and dissenter from many of the views represented by the columnists on this site, you will never find me questioning the patriotism, virtue or commitment of our military. Nor will you find me throwing rocks or spitting on them, in person or in writing. I have known too many of them personally from the 101st Airborne at nearby Ft. Campbell, Ky, along with their wives and families. I would trust them with my life ...and in fact all of us do every day. I have also seen the broken families resulting from extended deployments, the wounded coming home and the grief of those family members who learn that their loved ones will never come home.

Even if you think that everything we're doing in the Middle East today is achieving exactly the wrong results, which I do, there is a right way and a wrong way to send that message. And dishonoring our troops is precisely the wrong way.

An intersting point

For those that question the military and their view of war, let me tell you a story.

Back in the late 60's, an exercise was run with cabinet level personnel and chief of staff level (admirals and generals). The scenario was a increasingly bitter confrontation with the USSR, with one of the options being THE BOMB.

The first ones to go for the nuclear option




the civilians, because the military knew the horrors of war.

Lynne and Dude
I don't know what those food channel people look like. Can you give me someone else you may resemble so I can pick you out. I'm so hoping to see some of the TH people.

Dude,
I just watched Jim Webb on Cavuto talk about the bill he is presenting in Congress to further limit Bush's war powers, in specific to Iran. It's a tripping of measures whereby the generals on the ground will probably have to call lawyers before they can make a move. Cavuto tried to call him on this, but Webb got loud in his face.

This is so frustrating today
I can't get to Gunny's blog now.

To "Rand"y
I think the Kimberlys of the world need as much exposure as possible. Make them all Poster Children for irrational thought and behavior.

Thank goodness for people like Ms. Malkin who gets them all riled up.

Dude
Yeah, I could hardly stand looking at the red faced blow hard.
He also said that things are going better in Iraq because the dims have put pressure on GW to solve things with Iran and Syria. He took the credit (if one can call meeting with Iran and Syria that) for this meeting coming up.

Just time for a first step, Dude
Thanks for your post. I will certainly join you in denouncing anyone who defaces memorials or dishonors our troops. To me, criticizing our troops for the problems in Iraq is a lot like blaming the media for reporting bad news. They're just doing their jobs to the best of their abilities.

I could talk geopolitically, strategically or tactically about our errors in Iraq but today the situation is what it is. To paraphrase Don Rumsfeld, you go to war with the leadership you've got, not the leaders you wish you had or the ones you might like to have someday. For anyone who has truly studied the literature, examined the facts and tried to determine the truth -- besides just reading some columnist on the left or right giving their spin -- our missteps in all the above crucial areas are fairly apparent. You have to read no further than the Army War College site to get a good feel for just the military lessons learned.

But if I had to wave a magic wand today to put us back on the right course, I would first of all do away with all the rhetoric about the Global War on Terror. Its bad linguistics first of all, but I think it has also led us to many flawed policies. In this case, the words matter a lot.

It may seem picky, but I think the term "Global War on Terror" leads us to all the wrong conclusions. First, it's not “global.” We do have a really serious problem with radical Islamic thugs and terrorists but they are pretty much confined to certain parts of the globe, with a few rare exceptions. And for all the hype about this being a new kind of war and clash of civilizations, this isn't a struggle that we haven't seen before. Most recently, a few thugs and criminals took over much of the globe under the radical ideological banner of "communism." And we've seen lots of thuggery before in history and had to deal with it in a variety of ways.

To declare war on "terror" is also a misnomer. Terror is a tactic, not an enemy. We could just as easily declare war on flanking maneuvers or amphibious assault and it would be equally silly. We have to recognize terror for the tactic that it is, one used throughout history by the weak against the strong. Now being strong is definitely a good thing for America since it means that no nation dares to challenge us in a conventional military sense. But it also means that those who want to harm us will do so through what is now called "asymmetrical warfare," another word for terrorism, guerilla warfare and insurgency. In that way, our strength invites terrorism since it is the only rational way to attack America or her interests. Terror uses our own strength against us, which has always been the most successful strategy for the weak.

What we often overlook is that the father of modern terrorism, Vladimir Lenin, understood that terrorism is a sword that can cut with two blades. First, terrorist attacks hurt a government and raise questions among its citizens about that governments ability to protect them. But for governments that aren't smart, it leads them to overreact by adopting repressive tactics that further alienate them from their own citizens. In this instance, sometimes the best response is a lesser response.

And that leads us into the "war" part of the GWOT. By calling it a war, it makes us think that warfare is the best response. Actually, it’s the worst response in many cases for the reasons Lenin well articulated. Most of our military leaders have now begun to rethink what we’re doing against Islamic radicals as not a war, but more of a counterinsurgency in locations around the world. And counterinsurgency doctrine recognizes that conventional military responses, while occasionally necessary, are generally the least effective way of combating the threat. Much more effective are special forces operations, improved intelligence, better security for citizens, increased efforts to combat the misinformation campaigns of insurgents, efforts to isolate insurgents from the population and, yes, improved law enforcement techniques. After all, police are the usual way of dealing with violent criminals and at the core, that is what we’re fighting.

I think stripping away all the rhetoric about the “global war on terror” would be an excellent first step toward seeing the problem more clearly and adopting strategies and tactics that would deal with it more effectively.

Lynne
BLUSHING

Lynne
I finally got to Gunny's link. It's just that the server keeps timing out on me. There must be a load of libs on here today.

Lynne
I finally got to Gunny's site. It's just that the server keeps timing out on me.

Talk about some cut throat libs. How about Solis and Shrew. Now there's a couple of pieces of work.
Deranged is more like their MO.

GWOT rhetoric
To the LOST soul (not worthy of being identified by name) that said "radical Islamic thugs and terrorists...are pretty much confined to certain parts of the globe, with a few rare exceptions..." has obviously placed the head in the sand and has contracted a serious case of the Ostrich Syndrome. Or, is a flat out liar and a puppet of the Leftinistra. PERIOD.

We have Professor Jihads (Kent State University) in the USA, terrorist sympathizers internal CONUS, radical Islamofascists in Europe, Russia, Phillipines, Thailand, India, Pakistan, all parts of the Middle East (name where there isn't one), Tajikistan, all over Africa and some in South and Central America.

HELLO? This uneducated twit is obviously talking out of all sides of its lower anatomy and should be, well, IS laughed at scornfully.

What a GOMER!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Lynne
You still haven't given me a better description. How about a certain hand signal from the TH people? We could do a code hand signal and then all of us left back home watching can recognize TH bloggers.

Ken
Although I do disagree on your points, I find it so refreshing to see someone with an opposing point of view have a sincere discussion.

It's rare and I applaud it. I applaud you. As you can tell, us here on TH love to talk politics, and unfortunately it can go terribly wrong because of caustic postings we get, like Kim, Bjorn and so on.

I think we're just so happy to have a real discussion and read your tangible ideals an thoughts without any mudlsinging or insults.

Please stay and be an example for your Liberals.

Shrew
Raping a 14 year old girl is vile under any circumstances.

However, you are picking out one case of what a Marine did. That does not make all soldiers like that one nor does it mean it gives people the right to spit on our soldiers.

If you care to look around in our society, you might find that plenty of vile citizens here in the States rape and torture children.

I really don't know what your point is. If there is one since you are just completely over the top with your comments here at TH, showing yourself to be somewhat vile yourself.

Definitely not a GOMER...
...although I actually do live just a couple of blocks from Goober, his brother on the old TV series.

But if you think about it, although there are Islamists of one stripe or another all over the world, there are only a few places where they resort to the kind of violent behavior that raises them to being a threat to the U.S., its citizens or interests. Sure there are people who talk the talk elsewhere, but talking isn't a crime. As long as Professor Jihad at Kent State (whoever that is) doesn't wrap himself up in C-4 and provide an explosive welcome to visitors at the school, he can talk all he wants. I hope our democracy is at least that strong that we can survive that kind of rhetoric.

India is another good example. While the Pakistanis seem to breed terrorists, India has the second-largest Islamic population in the world. When is the last time you heard of an Indian Islamic radical committing terrorism? Its so rare as to be practically non-existent.

Some very interesting work is now being done in a joint project between the Department of Defense and Department of State. What they are finding is that most of these Islamist radicals are fighting local problems, not global ones. While they pay lip service to a larger global struggle, what they are really interested in is local issues, local grievances and local reforms. Most in Africa, the Phillipines, Thailand and most Western European Islamic radicals fall into this group that uses global jihad as an excuse for their violent reactions to the local problems that made them radical to begin with.

Not only are they are finding that these problems can best be resolved at the local level (using traditional law enforcement and counterinsurgency techniques), but the worst thing for us to do is to define them as part of a "global war." We're giving them a legitimacy -- and an enemy in the U.S. -- that they could not attain on their own.

My argument is that the whole GWOT mindset is more than just hype and marketing which many seem to want or need. It's actually counterproductive because it prevents us from seeing the very real threats we face realistically.

Ken in Tenn - Lynne Pepp Nee etc.
Ken in TN: I'll join the others in applauding. I suspect you are correct with the best way to handle these lawbreakers as being more clandestine sorts of operations. This is a pretty radical change of thought, too. I CANNOT reconcile the illegal alien and border situation with a "global war." We are normally neither careless nor stupid with our national security.

All: Are you concerned about the Patriot Act? Do you think a global one world agenda is real? If not can anyone give me one good reason the illegal alien situation is being ignored? I want one! I'll take a crumb. Has anyone looked at the last few executive orders and how they erode our individual rights? "for the collective good." Now where in history have we seen this before?

Lynne
On CB, I scroll past it. It (CB) has been brutally nasty to me in the past. I don't reply to him either.

LadyRebel
You're right the globalists are taking over and I imagine it is big bucks for business with all the cheap labor. The rest of us will end up being on the dole.

Shrew
You're talking to a sick, somewhat old woman. Now, if they would take me, I'd fight. And, when the Islamo fascists arrive here I'll shoot until they kill me. Doesn't matter to me. I'm on the downside of the road anyway. More years behind me than in front of me.

And, frankly, I don't care about the distrust of the US. It's hogwash. We send more aid and money to countries all over the world to help them out in every imaginable situation. So, the rest of the world can go to he11.

Gathering of Eagles
I apologize to the Eagles and our Military that I cannot attend.

I will, however, be watching for TH members at the Memorial, on the Internet.

pepp,lynne
CB used to be "fdr4rushmore"...on my first day as a poster here,he attempted to rip me a new one...in regard to what a lie is or isn't. He defneded Clinton...and that! Anyway,he must have been banned at somepoint,cause he changed his screen...Pretty sure I have the right person. It was about the time Guns was sent to Siberia...yikes!

Peppermint
Yeah. I can't stand the thought of giving up without a fight which is what we seem to be doing. No one seems to be paying attention to what is really going on. It's like everyone's watching the juggling act while the building burns down around them. God help us. (a prayer)

The Shrew
You mean the big bad warriors that set off IEDs while soldiers are giving candy to kids, are you talking about the big brave warrior caught trying to sneak through a check point in a burka, are you talking about the brave warriors that shoot at Medivac aircraft, are those the warriors you refer to?

If you think their cause is just , join it. As far as fighting there, many of us would, but have fought our wars already and have sons and daughters in harms way as you bloviate.


Nee
That's interesting about CB. I recall the Rushmore character. What got me one night he pretended to be an American throughout the whole thread and then accidentally gave himself away by saying something about the time difference from here and London. Ha!
Of course he claims he has never pretended but he is a liar.

LadyRebel
As my son says, "when the time comes it's going to be every man to himself and he had better be armed because no one is going to defend us".

So, that's the way I'm looking at it. My son's got enough guns to arm a whole neighborhood. I'm afraid that's how it's going to come down. Our government is not defending our borders and who knows who is coming across those borders.

Hmmm
I would pay real money to see Kimberly debate Ann and Michelle face to face. I'd even stay up past midnight to see that.

Pepp, your 1:33 pm
you forgot to include the obvious conclusion to your scenario for the benefit of the Lefties who troll (since they won't think for themselves, you see):

The ambulance chaser would win.

Eventually it might be overturned (providing 'Justice Ginsburg' has left the Court and been replaced by someone with an IQ higher than his age) by the Supremes. Given the last several decades of history on the Court, I wouldn' put money either way on that however...

Dude and Lynne
Well, we aren't there yet, but look how things are going right now. Who is minding the store? The store keepers all have their hands in the cookie jar.

I just like to imagine the worst case scenario so I don't get taken off guard when/if it happens.

Dash
Yeah, that Ginsberg woman is an idiot. To think the repubs did not challenge her for the Supremes like the dims do about the con judges. Ginsberg, a former lawyer for the ACLU. How could it get any worse than that?

Saw Kimmy'd friends on H&C

Two of the Washington state protesters were on Haniity and Colmes whining about how the big bad cops tasered them when they threaten and charged the cops.


Dash
I'm glad you're on the thread. I've got a question for you since you are so up on the POTUS war powers.

Today I saw Jim Webb on Cavuto and he is presenting a bill to limit GW's war powers. He claimed that the POTUS has no authority for pre-emptive war without the sanction of Congress. I didn't think that was correct, but I may be wrong.

What say you?

To the Brain Dead Trolls
Some of you apparently believe that warriors and soldiers are brain dead, unthinking trolls who enlist in the combat arms because they enjoy such things: they don't - they see both a job that needs doing and a personal responsibility to do it.

NO ONE hates war more than the warrior, for it is he who must bear its scars.

To the Shrew: You seem to be overgeneralizing with your example of the Marine rapist - apparently ascribing the motivation for this repugnant action to all who enlist. Sorry, flat wrong.

Before you accuse me of the same: vis the protesters who spit upon our troops and the Dem party as a whole - I don't. I can fully recognize that these actions are a distinct minority. However, the most vocal support and deepest pockets in the Party seem to both support their actions and their 'right' to do so and ARE philosophically united with them. The 'progressive socialist' wing of the Party is running the party as a whole.

Please wake up, have some GOOD coffee, and start to THINK about issues; instead of determining how something FEELS...

(wasted effort, perhaps, but I had to try...)

Packrat
Yeah, I saw them too, but I didn't hear what they were saying. Poor babies got tasered. What a crying shame. :-)

You should have seen
A special on FOX entitled :"Radical Islam ; Terror in its own words" Film clips collected from the Middle East, California and other Muslim haunts. If you get a chance, watch it. There is no doubt as to their purpose.

One clip featured an imam and his followers chanting "Death to America" You could have easily imagined they were screaming "Seig Heil". The arm gestures and the looks on their faces were much the same. And then there were the 5 year olds, that when asked what do you want to do, they answered "Kill the Jews". The religion of Peace . (Peace of the dead)

Dash
You get an A for effort, but Shrew is a dipsh*t and I don't know why I bothered answering that idiot. To put the whole military in the same crowd with one "allegedly rapist" makes no sense whatsoever. But, Shrew the P-U never makes any sense.

Packrat
Yeah, I've seen that special several times. Scary as he11 is it not? I had the very same thoughts about imagining them all going sieg heil.

Dude
I think there is a fax on numbersusa to send to your reps about that bill HR1022. I'll check it and get back to you on that.

Pep re: Webb
If he feels that it is in the best security interests of the Nation to pre-emptively strike, he has the Constitutional authority to do so. Politically that may be another matter, but the Roberts Court would possibly interpret the written Constitution correctly in this case and say the following:

"As CinC, the President has the specified Constitutional authority to launch this action. The Congress, if in disagreement, has the Constitutional authority to cut off funding.

Now go away and play with your respective toys."

Just my opinion. The Crawfish (http://constitutionalcrawfish.townhall.com) would be probably be better able to determine this as he is a Member of the Bar and I'm just a student of history and a former AF member ;)

Having said that however, Mr. Webb's approach is proper under the War Powers Resolution and recent history (both the GWOT and Iraq had specific joint resolutions of authorization. And both passed by Strong, not to say sweeping majorities in BOTH Houses). However despicable may be his ultimate goal or motives.

Congress has the Constitutional responsibility to declar a State of War, the President has the Consititutional responsibility to actually manage and run it. One of the reasons the war powers are both carefully defined and divided.

Webb is also correct that we do need to debate it now. His ultimate goal of tying the hands of the President is regrettable though.

In short: Under the terms of the GWOT authorization I do not think the President needs further authorization to legally order action in Iran (nor did he in Iraq, for that matter). All the more so given Iran's long history of funding terrorists world wide. I suspect that GWB would seek the concurance of Congress for action (not to mention funding); but I rather doubt he would allow their refusal to stop him.


Peace Brigade = SDS
I did some reasearch on these people. They are organized by the University of Puget Sound chapter of the reborn "Students for a Democratic Society".

They are still celebrating Ho Chi Minh and the Fall of South Vietnam.

Pro Troops, they are not.

Dude, Dash and LadyRebel
Here are some good places to fire off faxes and sign petitions mainly on immigration, but some other issues too.
The firesociety.com place has a place for you to start your own petitions too.
I can't find where I fired off a fax on HR1022.

We all need to write or email our reps about this gun legislation. The dims want all the guns out of the Americans hands so they won't get any resistance when they implement the commie/socialist government for good.

http://www.firesociety.com/
http://www.numbersusa.com/
http://www.grassfire.org/

I looked at HR1022
It is an Ex post Facto revision changing the definition to outlaw weapons like the Ruger Mini14 and the m1 carbine. Talk about back door "legislation".

Dash
I don't trust that Jim Webb. He's a blow hard.

Now, I don't think GW would attack Iran unless he had specific knowledge that they were going to attack us.

I just wanted to know if Congress could prevent the POTUS from a pre-emptive strike if we were in imminent danger. I did not think they could stop the POTUS in that case.

Packrat
Yeah, it's really bad that HR1022. We need to stay on the ball about these bills because we'll all be unarmed by the time the radicals get here. This is such bs and watch the crime go up if this bill is passed because the criminals won't give up their guns and they know the average citizen is unarmed.

All
This kinda crap really pizzes me off. As far as the peace demonstrators, they're coming out from under their rocks because WE ARE WINNING IN IRAQ and it's got them nervous. We win, they lose. It's that easy.

As far as gun control goes, are you a member of the NRA? The GOA? If not, WHY NOT?

Yes, I know they ask for money all of the time but they are our ONLY WAY to fight back in DC. It's time to stand up and be counted folks.

Life Member NRA!

BTW, check my blog for the comments of the libscum on the death of three soldiers today. What I posted were the MILD ONES!

These b*stards are sick.

Dude
These people who deface war memorials and spit on soldiers are like spoiled brats who never grew up.

Dude Dash Peppermint
Bad government is getting more troubling all the time. These two acts finish stripping our civil rights:

On October 17, 2006, public signing of the 'Military Commissions Act of 2006' which suspended habeas corpus allowing the president to declare you an 'enemy combatant' and end your rights to seek legal or judicial relief from unlawful imprisonment.

In a private Oval Office ceremony the president signed into law the 'John Warner National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) of 2007' which essentially eliminates the protections of the Posse Comitatus Act and re-wrote the Insurrection Act. The NDAA will allow the president to declare a 'public emergency' and take control of state-based National Guard units without the consent of the governor or local authorities, in order to 'suppress public disorder'

from: http://www.stopthenorthamericanunion.com/TheFWord.html

Which brings me back to my earlier posts here at 12:54 and 7:40.

LadyRebel
Yep. The government is doing all they can to disarm us in many different ways. They know they could have an insurrection on their hands.


Dude
I suspect most lefties being cowards, are reminded of their own cowardice when they just see warriors. In their self-loathing and confusion they attack the warriors.

There is a good precedent for that thought with Stephen the Apostle. He told the locals (lefties?) about their sin and God's goodness. They ran on him, bit him, then finally killed him in their frenzy at being shown for what they were. See any similarities?

Peppermint
I suspect an insurrection is what they most fear. Armed civilians, especially in "flyover states" will NOT "go softly into that good night." We'll fight and take as many as we can with us. Seeing what happened to Libby today makes me think we will be "lawed" to death. Literally.

LadyRebel
Go to this link and you can vote to have Libby pardoned. Your vote will be sent to GW.


http://www.vote.com/

Peppermint
Thanks. We voted.

Sorry Pep
For the long reponse to what is essentially a simple question, once you rephrased it:
"I just wanted to know if Congress could prevent the POTUS from a pre-emptive strike if we were in imminent danger. I did not think they could stop the POTUS in that case"

Well, maybe. It depends on the definition of 'imminent danger' and if they accept both the definition and intel. An OVERT act of war would probably NOT be enough for this crowd...


Pep again
In any reasonably run universe the answer would be a resounding "HE!L NO!.

Unfortunately neither this universe nor this country is reasonably run. I mean, look at Kimberly for goodness' sake...

Shrew
Yeah, you're right about our terrible troops. I'd rather have those wonderful U.N. troops who raped every underage girl in sight in the Sudan. Yet the U.N. is still held in high esteem. Thank you MSM.

To the hot place where the trash
These anti-war idiots are cluless fools who get their information from the left wing bias liberal main stream media. They have no clue on what is going on and are more worried about calling the very men and women fighting for our freedom baby killers and murderers and all kinds of slanderous things, they are more worrited about spitting upon those braves souls who we call soldiers and damaging the steps of the capital building and the Veitnam memorial wall.

The Jane Fondas, Tim Robbins, Sean Penns and Cindy Shehans hate America and don't think we have a right to live in freedom or defend it, obviously they were on a different planet when we were attacked on 9/11 and they want to neogotiate with the Islamic Facists, and anybody who thinks that's possible is a complete idiot, how can you neogotiate with someone who slaughters 3,000 innocent people in one day? And hundreds a day and thousands a monthly and yearly.

I will say this, mistakes have been made in Iraq, we need to go all out and win or get out, fight like every war has been fought in the past 100 years, using artillery, bombs and plenty of bullets, and if Bush had any ba**s he would tell the Democrats to shut the heck up and let him run the war since he is the one and only commander in chief, he would then go all out in Iraq blow the daylights out of every terrorist S.O.B and win with agressive fighting like we won WWII which is the only way to win any war, if he would strike fear in the hearts of this scum then they would run and hide and we would wipe them out, but Bush won't do that because he has no ba**s and he won't send the police down in full riot gear along with the S.W.A.T teams armed with both guns and bullets and gas bombs after these anti-war America haters.

But again Bush has no ba**s so we continue to dink around in Iraq while nothing is done about the Cindy Sheehans and Sean Penns of the world who make our country look like crap when they're seen on tv calling the president a murderer and rooting for us to lose and be taken over by the Islamic facists. Lincoln took away many rights to win the civil war and was as tough as a bucket of nails, but Bush is no Lincoln and these anti-war jerks will continue to rant, sad but true.

Ken in Tennesssee
Your post appear to suppor the idea of Covert Intervention against the Islamist. If my interpretation of your comments is accurate,then we are in agreement. There is an old adage that one man can change the world if he is in the right place at the right time, with a sniper rifle.

Unfortunately, our government is incapable of covert operations. We have a policy prohibiting assassination, and a Congress that loves to tell stories. Effective covert operations require plausable deniability, a concept that was shredded in wake of the Church Committee in the early 70's.

We know that special forces can be extremely effecitve. The skills that we teach out Seals, Airborne Rangers and Marine Recon units are the same skills necessary for a covert operation. Unfortunately, our Congress operates in such a manner as to insure the rapid demise of any covert units that we might employ without a Declaration of War.

Your thoughts sir?

What the MSM and Malkin are not saying
First let me say as a conservative our troops have won in Iraq and if they came home tomorrow they are still winners in my book.

Second I live within 10-20 minutes from Port of Tacoma.
What the MSM and Malkin are not telling the public is these protesters are not blocking anyone from doing anything.
All of the army's equipment is sitting at the port ready to go.
In essence they are just making a scene.
As far as the violence goes it looks as though the police agitated the protesters who were being peaceful by firing rubber bullets at them while they were sitting doing nothing. After that they began retaliating or there is a small minority of the 200 or so protesters that are agitating the police to use force on these protesters.

It's not as big of a deal as Malkin would have you believe.
When a 1000 protesters are out in force then it will be a big deal and be hard to move anything through the streets to the port. Right now it's just aggravating the authorities more than anything.

Ken - Crime Spree vs. "war"
Ken, like others, i respect the respect you give - to this forum & to our troops. It's nice to know that there really are ppl who disagree w/the war and do support the troops.

RE: your pt on the GWOT -
"After all, police are the usual way of dealing with violent criminals and at the core, that is what we’re fighting."

We used this approach up until 9/11. irt the Cole, the first WTC bombing, Beirut, Lockerbee, and on & on. There were many, many provocations in this on going conflict prior to 9/11. But - needless to say - that September day changed the parameters of the conflict.

I think it would be a *grave* error to return to combating this situation as though these were just common criminals. These are ppl who - if they could - would annihilate us. I'm not being over the top here. If OBL had a nuke, he'd use it wo/hesitation. Without hesitation, while we debated semantics, he would kill millions.

I agree w/a previous poster - calling a "war" is likely a mistake for the reason stated - it leads us to think it will be over at some definitive point. But what are the alternatives?

You don't want to call it "global" or a "war" or an action against "terror". That's fine. Sometimes trite phrases like this are not designed to be wholly accurate. What would you call this on-going conflict?

While you think on that - pls keep this in mind... In OBL's mind, the only possible conclusion is our death. The complete desctruction of this sinful society. *That* is what we are fighting against. I pray it doesn't take another 9/11 to wake this country up, to be as deeply repulsed by the Democrats playing polotics with our soldiers and, indeed, the existence of this country all in hopes of winning the Presidency. But, sadly, it probably will.

Doubtless, there are "police activities" on-going - witness the 19 in the UK recently arrested for trying to hijack & blowup planes bound for America. But there should also be the kind of activities seen recently in Somalia where the US used gunships to destroy an AQ caravan of cars.

So - let's enjoy our debate on the worthiness of pithy catchphrases... Let's continue to be respectful in our debate... But let us never forget that our enemy doesn't care. That our enemy will only be satisfied w/our destruction.

With that in mind - pls feel free to submit your alternative catch phrases to comments@whitehouse.gov.

But - please - respectfully - in your continued efforts to end the conflict in Iraq and your introspection on America's military activities, don't forget what our enemy is fighting for. I know OBL hasn't.

davy crock - fired rubber bullets...
for absolutely no reason? Really?? With media ppl & what not. Didn't someone earlier blast Michelle for not linking to some kind of "evidence". I wasn't there, so I don't know, but --- I find this report to be *very* suspect.

Retlaw Rose
heres video of the event on
youtube.com.

The video I've seen show protesters peacefully protesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hIIuJK_Uh8
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