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Wednesday, September 16, 2009
Michael Medved :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Real Political Divide: Attitudes Toward America
by Michael Medved
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Everyone knows that Americans are bitterly divided over politics but what is the fundamental nature of that division? What is the core disagreement that separates conservatives from liberals, right from left?

Norman Podhoretz provided a provocative and persuasive answer to that question in a recent Wall Street Journal column (September 10) based on his new book, Why Are Jews Liberals? Podhoretz wrote: The great issue between the two political communities is how they feel about the nature of American society. With all exceptions duly noted, I think it fair to say that what liberals mostly see when they look at this country is injustice and oppression of every kind economic, social and political. By sharp contrast, conservatives see a nation shaped by a complex of traditions, principles and institutions that has afforded more freedom and, even factoring in periodic economic downturns, more prosperity to more of its citizens than in any society in human history. It follows that what liberals believe needs to be changed or discarded and apologized for to other nations is precisely what conservative are dedicating to preserving, reinvigorating and proudly defending against attack.

The bitterness of the current health care debate demonstrates the power of this important insight. Liberals invariably plead that the United States must follow the example of Britain or France, Canada or Cuba, and expand the governmental role in medicine to guarantee health care as a sacred human right. The left insists that despite the high cost of American medical care we actually lag far behind more enlightened countries in health outcomes. Conservatives, on the other hand, while decrying the rise in costs, cite the many ways that the US system leads the world (in technological breakthroughs, as well as responsiveness where America is ranked number one by the World Health Organization of the UN). Conservatives want other countries to learn from us and follow our example; liberals long for the United States to learn from our European counterparts and to follow their example.

In international affairs, similar differences apply. The left wants the United States to act multi-laterally at all times and in all things, emphasizing the danger that well probably make a mistake if we go it alone and ignore world opinion. The right concentrates on the need for American power in the world and stresses the positive role played by this country in every corner of the globe. Conservatives worry that if we wait for other (and often corrupt) international powers to join us in every endeavor, well make a mistake by abdicating the leadership role only we can play by deferring to world opinion.

When it comes to the nations history, the divisions between left and right remain similarly stark. Liberals stress U.S. guilt for slavery, mistreatment of Native Americans, and more than a century of imperialist adventures oppressing nations around the world. The right dwells on the way that America introduced ideals of liberty to all of humanity, gave rise to the planets first anti-slavery society, and rescued the earth from two world wars and the danger of international communism.

The opposing instincts toward America also help explain the liberal-conservative arguments over religion and its role in our society. All recent polls show a vast difference in political alignment between those who place a priority on traditional faith and those who describe themselves as irreligious or unaffiliated. From the days of our Puritan and Pilgrim forefathers, the people who inhabited the New World always placed a higher priority on religious practice and Biblical beliefs than the communities they left behind in Europe. In the 1830s, the French observer Alexis de Tocqueville singled out the powerful influence of fervent Christianity as perhaps the most dominant force in American society, and the clearest distinction between the new Republic and the Old World. Even today, the United States remains by every measure the most religious nation in the western world. For conservatives, the religious character of our past and our people stands as a point of pride; for liberals, its one more reason for embarrassment and apology.

On all of these issues, liberals and conservatives differ dramatically and profoundly. This is not to say that all liberals hate America, or that all conservatives glorify their country unreservedly. But in questions of emphasis the contrast couldnt be more clear: the left stresses Americas failures, shortcomings, hypocrisies, and embarrassments while the right trumpets the nations achievements, blessings, and distinctive advantages. Nothing enrages liberals more than the conservative tendency for jingoistic flag-waving and super-patriotism; nothing bothers conservatives more than the liberal habit of blaming America first and concentrating on historic guilt and present problems.

The more negative attitude by liberals toward the nation in which they live even accounts for the well-known happiness gap in which all survey data shows conservatives as far more satisfied and optimistic about their own lives. Even controlling for factors like race, age, economic and marital status, conservatives top liberals by all measures of happiness (as described in detail by Arthur Brooks in his valuable book, Gross National Happiness.) The liberal embrace of guilt rather than gratitude, and focus on the nations predicaments rather than its possibilities, clearly contribute to the gloomy temperament (and the inevitable calls for sweeping change) that accompany the leftwing world view.

The critical and even fearful attitude toward the United States has come to characterize the left in every corner of the globeand it makes sense to extend the Podhoretz paradigm internationally. Contrasting visions of America distinguish every major conflict in todays world; the role of the United States has been the explosive, polarizing, outstanding international issue for the last twenty years.

In 1989-91, with the Western victory in the Cold War, disputes over American influence and values came to replace the issue that had divided the world for the previous 70 years: the response to Marxism. For more than two generations, attitudes toward socialism and the rise of all-powerful (often totalitarian) governments not only separated the nations of the world, but also characterized political disputes within each nation. The Russian Revolution created the prospect of world-shattering revolt, and conservatives defined themselves by their implacable opposition to that prospect just as liberals argued for the need to embrace or accommodate it. Anywhere on earth, your approach toward Marxist ideology placed you in one political camp or the other, just as your response to Americas influence and example will shape your ideological position from Moscow to Mumbai, from Mombasa to Maracaibo.

Some partisans on the left (in America and around the world) will resist this formulation, insisting that they love the United States just as much as any right winger. The distinction, progressives regularly aver, involves their affection for a perfected America that might, through hope and change, come into existence sometime in the future, or else their nostalgic reverence for an America that once was, but ceased to exist through some malevolent influence (greedy businessmen, the religious right, conniving conservatives, take your pick).

Anyone with a modicum of experience in human relations will tell you that a devotion based on what your love object might become, or may have been in the past, is a suspect and toxic form of affection. If, in a moment of insecurity, a wife asks a husband, Honey, do you love me? the last thing she wants to hear is, Actually, I love the idea of you if you changed completely. In other words, its not advisable to tell the woman in your life that youd adore her if shed only lose fifty pounds, submit to liposuction and breast augmentation surgery, get a new set of gleaming white caps for her teeth, and complete a post graduate degree so shed offer more intriguing conversation.

By the same token, it always seems bizarre to hear liberals insist that they consider themselves committed patriots and enthusiastic America lovers because they love the notion of a new U.S. purged of racism, and pollution, and economic exploitation, and sexism, and homophobia, and Mickey Mouse, McDonalds and the Designated Hitter Rule.

Conservatives have an easier time connecting with the sentiments of everyday Americans because our love of country remains less complicated: we admire and relish and savor the United States just as it is, even with all its quirks and imperfections. For us, the sight of Old Glory in the autumn breeze inspires a sense of instant pride and exaltation, not the bittersweet ruminations of a guilty liberal who automatically evokes embarrassing episodes associated with the flag and sighs over the gap between U.S. ideals and contemporary reality.

The more that conservatives understand and adopt the idea that attitudes toward America divide the left and right everywhere, the better our chances of building durable majorities. The health care debate offers a fine opportunity to spread this notion. While the left hopes that well abandon our distinctiveness and welcome international influence in shaping a new health care system, the right hopes for a clear-cut victory for liberty and against big government a victory that can advance the cause of Americanism as a unique and valuable creed both here at home and around the world.

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About The Author
Michael Medved's daily syndicated radio talk show reaches one of the largest national audiences every weekday between 3 and 6 PM, Eastern Time. Michael Medved is the author of eleven books, including the bestsellers What Really Happened to the Class of '65?, Hollywood vs. America, Right Turns and, most recently, The Ten Big Lies About America.
 
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The Real Political Divide
The greatest nation on God's Green Earth!

Attitudes are OK with this President
If you speak ill about the country in which you live it's normal. Like minded people stick together, that's politics. That's what makes up the two party system. Right now, we don't have the two party system because President Obama turned this country into a one party system. His door is always open, if you happen to be a liberal or from some far left special interest group. In the mind of President Obama Republicans are full of fail theories so why should he listen to them at all. He doesn't. Regardless what he says in public, it was President Obama who shut out the Republicans, because the ideology of the Republicans would just get in the way of the world President Obama is creating for all American's. His government health care is proof of this. His daily speeches to wear the people down and accept that he's going to shove his health care down the throats of the people regardless if we want it or not demonstrates he is tone death when it comes to him listening to anyone who isn't from the far left. President Obama knows what the government health care is all about and it doesn't have one thing to do with the uninsured and competition. For those who disputes this, what are you going to say when President Obama comes out with other reasons to take more of our choices and rights away. I tell you what your going to say. Your going to say I didn't know this was going to happen and we will be there to say yes you did and you just turned you head because you attitude toward this country outweigh you need to keep you choices and rights as an American citizen.

Slavery
(The right dwells on the way that America introduced ideals of liberty to all of humanity, gave rise to the planets first anti-slavery society)


>I seem to recall the British as the first to push for the abolition of the slave trade Michael.

Just as I seem to recall that it is members of the Right that hold on to the old symbols of slavery such as the Confederate flag!<



The elimination of slavery throughout the world was frequently in the mind of early abolitionists, but it was not the objective of the earliest organised British movements. The Committee for the Abolition of the Slave Trade, which established the Society for the Abolition of the Slave Trade in Britain in 1787. The committee campaigned for an end to the Transatlantic slave trade from Western Africa to the New World, which Britain dominated.

The Slave Trade Act 1807 made the slave trade illegal in the British Empire. Following this, British abolitionists turned their attention to abolishing slavery itself, first in British colonies, and later in the USA and the colonies of other European powers (e.g. in south America), and parts of the world where it had long been legal, such as in the Middle East, Africa, and China.

Progress
The elimination of slavery was a watershed as slavery had been practiced everywhere. Americans lack an apprecition of that fact. Likewise the race baiters of the day are trivializing the great injustices of racism. I remember Eisenhower sending the National Guard to escort children to central high in Litle Rock and many other horrors. Now, it seems that saying the "N" word is racism. What must a young person think?

Bush
maverick
Location: TX
Reply # 2
Date: Sep 16, 2009 - 1:03 AM EST Attitudes are OK with this President
If you speak ill about the country in which you live it's normal. Like minded people stick together, that's politics. That's what makes up the two party system. Right now, we don't have the two party system because President Obama turned this country into a one party system


>No, I am pretty sure it was Bush that put your party on the way to defeat in 2006 and 2008.<

WHAT IS BUSH THINKING?

It's somewhat mysterious given his graceful silence since leaving the White House. But it's not at all clear he saw himself as the tip of the spear in the conservative movement. Here's a fascinating anecdote from a forthcoming book, by a former speech-writer (they all write memoirs apparently), reported by Byron York:


Latimer got the assignment to write Bush's [2008 CPAC] speech. Draft in hand, he and a few other writers met with the president in the Oval Office. Bush was decidedly unenthusiastic.

"What is this movement you keep talking about in the speech?" the president asked Latimer.

Latimer explained that he meant the conservative movement -- the movement that gave rise to groups like CPAC. Bush seemed perplexed. Latimer elaborated a bit more. Then Bush leaned forward, with a point to make.

"Let me tell you something," the president said. "I whupped Gary Bauer in 2000. So take out all this movement stuff. There is no movement."


"Look, I know this probably sounds arrogant to say," the president said, "but I redefined the Republican Party."

Mr Medved
I think the biggest difference is that conservatives stress personal responsibility and don't have alot of patience with those whose problems stem from bad behavior or poor planning.

Liberals want to spread the risks of life across the entire population so everyone has some sort of help when they hit a bad patch.

There is another difference between libs
and cons.


Cons believe that Obama is not a "true" american; they believe his birth certificate is a forgery, not valid.


Cons pack guns when they go to a townhall meeting where Obama speaks. Conservative House members blatently disrespect the office of the presideny then slap each other on the back.


Cons wave protest signs at Tea Parties showing Obama as Hitler, Obama as the Joker.


Cons believe Obama is a secret muslim, schooled in a radical madrassa.


Cons divert any accusations of racism onto liberals to deflect their own guilt (some even fly their Confederate flags).



The devisiveness in the country has gotten outrageously out of hand and I guess I am part of it, because now I wish the entire conservative party illness and unhappiness.



Who cares? Consider Will from Ca.
I don't want to waste my time trying to figure out why Will thinks the way he does. If a certain states want to go single or partial payer... why not? The interesting thing is that single payer types aren't so open minded when it comes to what others want.

@ Jim's recollections:
Jim is correct in saying that the British were first in advocating the abolition of both the slave trade and slavery (these were addressed sequentially for reasons of political practicality).

However, he offers no evidence for his recollection "that it is members of the Right that hold on to the old symbols of slavery such as the Confederate flag" If he wishes to be taken seriously he needs to demonstrate that this flag is (or was) a symbol of slavery, as opposed to being a symbol of states' rights in defiance of federal power.

To have substance, such a demonstration would require specific evidence that the Confederate flag has been widely so regarded from the time of Secession through the present time. If he can not do this, his comments on such matters can safely be disregarded.

Will is full of hogwash!
Cons (as you nickname us) believe that he is an American ,but a rule of the Constitution is that the president be born in the U.S., so simply prove it by showing your birth cert.. It's the deception that bothers us.


Cons respect guns and don't willy nilly carry them around, especially around the President of the U.S.. As far as Wilson is concerned, he voiced what all cons really were thinking. He shouldn't have done it, but the liar was saying half truths

ditto was done to Bush

Obama was a muslim as a child and became a black separatist and now does not practice a religion, except stupidity. (Sorry , not really a religion.)

Cons believe there are only two kinds of people the decent and the indecent. Color makes not!

I also feel the devisiveness and wish all libs would open their eyes, minds and hearts to reason, truth and beauty that is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Evidence?
David
Location: PA
Reply # 1
Date: Sep 16, 2009 - 2:03 AM EST @ Jim's recollections:
Jim is correct in saying that the British were first in advocating the abolition of both the slave trade and slavery (these were addressed sequentially for reasons of political practicality).

However, he offers no evidence for his recollection "that it is members of the Right that hold on to the old symbols of slavery such as the Confederate flag" If he wishes to be taken seriously he needs to demonstrate that this flag is (or was) a symbol of slavery, as opposed to being a symbol of states' rights in defiance of federal power.

To have substance, such a demonstration would require specific evidence that the Confederate flag has been widely so regarded from the time of Secession through the present time. If he can not do this, his comments on such matters can safely be disregarded.

>You can regard or disregard anything you want, most people already understand where the confederate flag is still proudly flown and which part of the country is still considered conservative and right wing. Nor do I have to point out that the South flew this flag as they fought to protect their right to keep the institution of slavery. There is nothing more that I need to demonstrate.<

Let me get this straight...

It appears Medved is saying that liberals lie about America.

I wonder if he could come up with TEN big lies they tell about America?

Eyes wide shut?
mark
Location: AZ
Reply # 2
Date: Sep 16, 2009 - 2:18 AM EST

I also feel the devisiveness and wish all libs would open their eyes, minds and hearts to reason, truth and beauty that is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

>That is the problem ... our eyes are wide open. You may think Bush was only kidding when he said this “This is an impressive crowd -- the haves and the have mores. Some people call you the elite -- I call you my base.” I suppose you also believe that Bush pushing for immigration reform, was only because he is a nice guy? Did you ever think that his base, the elites just might want this cheap labor to replace you and yours while increasing their own profits?

Now look at who is funding this campaign to stop healthcare reform. If big business really cared about you ... they wouldn't be fighting so hard to make sure your premiums continue to go up and up and up!<

Jim's Eyesight
"That is the problem ... our eyes are wide open"
yOUR eyes might be open but I noticed you left out any mention of your mind and heart, self explanatory! Bush pushed immigation reform to deal with the "rule of law" issues that are extremely important to us, and he also let his heart dictate over reason , for which most cons lambasted him for.
If you owed 6 times your annual salary on your credit card would you go out and spend a whole lot more on insurance that you couldn't afford? That's where WE the people find ourselves. STOP SPENDING MONEY WE DON'T HAVE.

The left is clueless
We're in this mess as a nation because of failures (across the board) in local, state, and federal government. Why can't we agree on this? The Left has married themselves to the idea of bigger government to the point that they refuse to recognize when that government is failing...has failed.

PLEASE take a quick look at this fascinating column by a young conservative writer from Chicago who's doing great work with people under 30: http://rjmoeller.com/?p=981

SCHIZOPHRENIA is more like it
I haven't read Norman Podhoretz's book, "Why Are Jews Liberals?" yet, but I *DID* read the WSJ article...and the TRULY SCARY Letters To The Editor in repsonse.

The first article was by a person who identified himself as Jewish, and said that (I'm paraphrasing here) his Holy Book requires him to help the less fortunate [so far, so good...but then make a fatal jump] and that this also makes for a good blueprint for society.

WRONG. DEAD WRONG.

There is a fundamental - and fatal - difference (which I'd thought especially Jews would appreciate)
between

charity (voluntary)
and
servitude (mandatory)...be it physical or economic (e.g. taxes).

Once a "voluntary" virtue is mandated, it loses all of its power and significance. It may serve a purpose, but only one of The State.

Slavery--denial of comlexity = racism
I noticed a small fact lost in the Slave discussions

--The perpetrators of the most enlightened event of recorded human history were Evangelical Christians--

The "Committee for Abolition of the African Slave Trade" was formed with 12 members, I believe the majority of them were from the particular sect called Quakers. Clarkson, the one who did the lion's share of the fact finding work was an Anglican--the only politically correct religion in England; so the one with the most freedom of movement & access.

True liberals all--ones who if they were to speak a single sentence on a political stage today would be shouted down by today's liberals fearing the comming theocracy.

While you may disagree, the English managed to persuade their folks to change from an economy structured on slavery over a period of 20 years without wholesale bloodshed.

Mediate on that while considering in America, the FEDERAL Government created the "GRAND ARMY OF THE REPUBLIC" and set about the bloodiest war in our history to coerce the same result.

Peace loving liberals today need to reconsile this fact before shouting "Racist."

Robert E. Lee was asked to lead the "Grand Army" and refused--not because he was a racist, but because he was a liberal.

The confederate flag is looked upon by folks in the South--not as a flag of slavery but a flag of liberty lost.

Double Standards

I, do not understand this administration, and why it is getting away with what it is getting away with...

If they were Republicans doing this garbage... the media would be so fat that they couldn't walk. Why the double standards? ? ?

And why is Mr. Wilson being reprimanded for saying 'YOU LIE', when it was the truth? Some people have balls and they speak out the way they should -- when they should.

And AND, I want Pelosi to apologize to the CIA for her remarks. ????

Have A Great American Day

Rule of law?
mark
Location: AZ
Reply # 5
Date: Sep 16, 2009 - 3:12 AM EST Jim's Eyesight
"That is the problem ... our eyes are wide open"
yOUR eyes might be open but I noticed you left out any mention of your mind and heart, self explanatory! Bush pushed immigation reform to deal with the "rule of law" issues that are extremely important to us, and he also let his heart dictate over reason , for which most cons lambasted him for.

>Rule of law? We already have laws that say that you can only work in the US with a proper ssn or a green card. How is looking for a way to allow 12 million undocumented workers to stay a rule of law?<

===========================


If you owed 6 times your annual salary on your credit card would you go out and spend a whole lot more on insurance that you couldn't afford? That's where WE the people find ourselves. STOP SPENDING MONEY WE DON'T HAVE.

>Didn't seem to bother Bush or the Republican Congress as they cut taxes while borrowing money to fund their wars. Who can forget all the townhall meetings and tea parties from the Republican anger back then???<

Mr. Medved
A useful essay, sir.

Liberals wish that the United States were more like some other country. Conservatives wish that it were more like the country the Founders had in mind. The one group fantasizes about places that have never existed. (France, Canada, Cuba, the Soviet Union, and all their other putative utopias have turned out to have grave problems.) The other group pursues ideals that have yet to be fully realized. Both have pledged allegiance to the unreal. As for me and my house, however, we shall serve the latter.

The disconnection between left and right is so great that one might profitably recast it: liberals and conservatives live in two radically different countries that occupy the same space. Perhaps Ted Kennedy, Alger Hiss, the Rosenbergs, et a great many alii, can be better understood not as traitors to the United States, but as loyal citizens of the People's Republic of Kumbayah. Or not.

"The left wants the United States to act multi-laterally at all times and in all things, emphasizing the danger that well probably make a mistake if we go it alone and ignore world opinion."

Not exactly. The left demands that the United States engage North Korea one-on-one and observe the Kyoto accords even if every other country on earth ignores them. In brief, the left insists that we do whatever we're _not_ doing about its enthusiasm of the moment. Not spending enough money on HIV or education (whatever that means)? Drop everything and spend madly. Not doing enough about homelessness or global warming? Drop everything and do something. It doesn't really matter what. Just do _something_.

By the way, apostrophes are only a nickel apiece at Sam's Club. You ought to stock up.


Paleocon

Nice Post.

Useful Idiots
Good morning and thanks. Hope all is well in the Keystone State. In any event, the Phillies shut out the Nationals.

P*ssed at Imperfection
Liberals "know" what a perfect world would look like. They also know that everyone must cooperate in order to acheive this goal. They also know that everyone won't cooperate and that makes them very angry. The simplest thing to do is get rid of those that won't cooperate. That's what Lenin, Stalin, Moa and Pol Pot did.

If you think it can't happen again then you know nothing of human nature.

Medved could have been a scholar
of merit, and respected by people on both sides.

I' not sure if he willingly gave that up in favor of adolescent showmanship or if he just couldn't make the grade. Perhaps another radiohead propaganda show was the best he could do, after reading Buckly, George will, and other intellectuals on the right.

Go away!
And then there are the rest of us who wish the bible-thumping, flag-waving, right-wing nuts /and/ the Kumbaya-singing, mushy-socialist, left-wing nuts would just leave us alone and quit trying to impose their childish notions of Nirvana on everyone.

The problem in the US isn't a left-right dichotomy, it's that both ends of the spectrum think it's okay to impose their world view on everyone else.

It's a big country--isn't there enough room to accommodate a lot of different Nirvanas?

TruLib
"If you think it can't happen again then you know nothing of human nature."

Truer words were never spoken. About all I can add is that if you think it can't happen _here_, you're dreaming.

Massacre and totalitarianism were exactly what Fritz Kuhn, Charles Manson, and the Weather Underground had in mind. Being a bit less sanguinary than Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot, however, Weather Underground figured that it needed to murder only 25 million or so to create a workers' paradise.

It's tempting to dismiss the monsters on the fringes as ineffectual. But Manson nearly succeeded in assassinating a sitting American president. And a disquietingly large number in Obama's circle either belonged to the WU (e.g., Bill Ayers) or share at least some of its goals.

Jim

"It's somewhat mysterious given his graceful silence since leaving the White House."

It used to be that past Presidents rarely spoke against sitting presidents out of respect, and sitting presidents didn't whine about their predecessors and blame them for their own incompetence. Silence after leaving the White House was the norm until the classless lout, Jimmy Carter, broke the tradition and set the precedent for barking loudmouths like Clinton and Obama.

Fascinating
I find it noteworthy that no one has mentioned that the democrats (the party of the "little" people) have prevailed with policies that have helped to destroy the black family. Look at the rates of abortion among black women. Look at the rate of unwed mothers in the black community. Abortion on demand is one consistent earmark of the democrats and probably THE reason for this "divide". Yet none of you have mentioned that President Obama and his supporters promote irresponsibility!

Barack Obama 'Change' as Promised

“I've been fighting alongside Acorn on issues you care about my entire career. Even before I was an elected official, when I ran Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, Acorn was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work.”
Barack Obama, Speech to ACORN, November 2007

Barack Obama taught ACORN workers using as a textbook: 'Rules for Radicals' by Saul Alinsky (dedicated to Lucifer).

Barack Obama seems to be applying 'Rules for Radicals' to America; like America is just one large community.

Alinsky taught that 'Step Number 1' is disorganization.
__________________________________

"The first step in community organization is community disorganization.

The disruption of the present organization is the first step toward community organization.

Present arrangements must be disorganized if they are to be displaced by new patterns that provide the opportunities and means for citizen participation.

All change means disorganization of the old and organization of the new."
Saul Alinsky
'Rules for Radicals'
Page 116
___________________________________

Barack Obama is presently engaged in 'Disorganizing' the American Government in general and the 'Executive Branch' in particular - this is the Obama 'Change' as promised.

Good Column
Not being myself a conservative, I think this is possibly the most balanced column Medved's ever written.

Historian Arthur Sleishinger said that conservatives want to preserve the American way of life and liberals want to make it available to everyone. I think that summarizes it pretty well, when things work the way they should. When conservatives think religious fundamentalism is their model for the American way of life, or liberals believe paying welfare to people who reject American values, people go off course.

The debate over health care reflects these priorities. Conservatives (correctly) point out that America leads the world in things like cancer and heart disease survival (i.e. maladies common among the non-poor); liberals point out that we have the worst infant survival rate of similarly-advanced nations.

This is what worries me about a government-mandated program. Special interests on the right and left will want their pet ideas protected. For conservatives, this means allowing states to compete to see who can host the lowest-benefit, highest-profit program (like Delaware does with credit cards) that becomes the national norm. Liberals will argue that current benefit levels work for middle-plus income whites, and demand that their benefits be cut in favor of things that will benefit minorities and other allegedly oppressed groups like gays.

Will
To refute your ideas, I will go through them one by one.

1) Obama is an American citizen. Case closed.

2) What Wilson did was wrong, and he apologized. However, Rahm Emanuel came over to Republican leaders with a profanity based spiel of words. He should apologize to them for that. And Dems booed Bush in the 2005 State of the Union message. Shouldn't they also say they're sorry for this disrespect? Will, it goes both ways on respect. Proof is by Googling a search.

3) Obama is not Hitler or the Joker. I wish both the right and left would stop all the Hitler analogies. I recall your side of the aisle called Bush and Cheney "hitlers and Nazis" during his administration. What goes for the right should also go for the left.

4) President Obama is not a Muslim. He is probably at best a lukewarm Christian.

5) I grew up in Texas, and I never liked the Confederate flag. Southeners that do that are usually ignorant tobacco chewing rednecks.

6) Glad you admitted you aren't perfect. I loathe what liberals stand for because I value freedom over govt. control.

7) I am not a Bush lover. Frankly, he was a mediocre President. The only leader in this country I have really liked in my lifetime is Ronald Reagan. most other Presidents are not in my libertarian vein.

4)

Obama's "New" politics - I get it now

"Wee Weed Up" is now considered proper "decorum" for POTUS.

While the word "Liar" has actually been banned as a "breach" and "racist"

I get it. Dissenters can now shout out the words "Wee Wee". It is the new word for B.S. and now considered the proper "decorum".

Conflict of Visions
By Thomas Sowell covers this well enough

Libertarian pragmatist
Yours was the first post I read and the first which compelled me to respond. While I appreciate the clarity of your thinking, I see that you stumble in places due to generational ignorance which, unfortunately has not been questioned to the point that you would research it to correct it.

For example, I am sick of hearing the term 'redneck' with regard to Southerners. The source of the term came from Northern, i.e. Pennsylvania, miners going into West Virginia to organize the West Virginia miners into the UMW. To be recognized, these Northern union members wore red kerchiefs around their necks.

The 'Confederate flag' to which you refer was a battle banner. The flag of the Confederacy was the Bonnie Blue. It was a flag, not a banner. I sincerely doubt that you know what it looked like as you are making your confusion public in your remarks.

The South is an easy tar baby for every ill-informed, uninformed liberal idiot. As, I presume, you are not an idiot due to your remarks, I simply wish you would omit inaccurate, gratuitous remarks in the future. Stupid people are stupid people, and, they come in all races and creeds from all over the U.S.

I look forward to your posts and hope that you understand that I agree with you.

Every person
in the Obama organization has committed a crime...no exceptions.

He is tied in with other criminal elements as well. Those include ACORN,Union Bosses,Hollywood elite(who conspire with the Socialist Party)...both here and abroad,Chicago Mafia,Leaders of Illegals,Billionaires, and others.

Obama once said: we must get our economy more in line with the poorer Nations.
He's dman sure working on it.

Retired Geek, reply #30
Your exactly right!

And as Joseph Stalin said..."America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its PATRIOTISM, its MORALITY, and its SPIRITUAL LIFE! If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."

Notice that even this Communist Dictator recognized America as a "HEALTHY BODY"

The above is exactly what Ovomit and his Liberal worshipers are trying to do!

Frank
You may want to do some research on who is subject to cancer and heart disease. They are not 'middle class' diseases. Recently published medical studies show that blacks are subject to more virulent types of breast and prostate cancer than other races. The leading killers of those on Medicare are cancer and heart disease. Gout is more likely to be the disease that is class conscious.

Styxie
Was it your eyesight at the time or your current short term memory loss that prevents you from remembering the left's portrayal of George W. Bush?

Again I Disagree With You Medved
You seemed to have accepted Podhoretz's explanation as to "Why Are Jews Liberals?". The plain but simple answer is that they are just liberal. Why do the Democrats want goobermint run health care? They are liberal. Pick a subject and they are liberal. And you can bet that they think the government is better suited to run it. It is not just plain okay for the goobermint to run much of our lives, it is necessary -- even when there is nothing wrong with it. Private health insurance Americans -- they do not know what is good for them. They must have a public option or exchange, or ______ fill-in-the-blank. I think that no Jew should ever want any government control over their lives -- but I guess they have already forgotten the Holocaust haven't they? Or, but that was done by the Nazis wasn't it, not the Democrats? Can they not see parallels between Obams's background, the people he has appointed and his visions versus those of Hitler and his climb to the top of his pile?

Michael I stopped reading at
"...Conservatives worry that if we wait for other (and often corrupt) international powers to join us in every endeavor, well make a mistake by abdicating the leadership role only we can play by deferring to world opinion. ..."

You still don't get it do you? The failed Bush regime by going its own way abdicated the US leadership role as the world's sole super power. The conservative "go it alone" strategy stripped the US of its moral and physical leadership. Can we get it back? I hope so but cannot guarantee it. The failed Bush regime left us a world power but no longer a super power recognized as leader of the Western world. Stripped of our allies we are a much weakened nation.

H. Hal
We stopped caring what people like you think a long time ago.

Go kiss Obama's rear....as soon as your leg quits tingling.

Our two
classes of people are made up of workers(Republicans) and those who want everything without lifting a hand(Socialist voters).
Got that Hal!

I disagree Michael!
Liberals love the Designated Hitter rule. Conservatives hate it.

9/11 & THE SIGN OF ISLAMIC TERROR
Over the years thousands of bloggers have noted that the deadly events of 9/11, the 11th year of Jihad against America, were mysteriously dominated by the number 11 and that this number was not a chance occurrence but had meaning for understanding that terrible day; but no one to date has been able to divine its meaning; no one, that is, until now.

Click my name and read my piece: September 11th and the Numeric Sign of Islamic Terror for a new and provocative view of the 9/11 event.

This is a contest?
Lets see, I am happier, less stress, will live longer, have more children. Where is the opposition coming from? Ah, they are recruiting our children by some mind control trick.

Maybe we should look at taking back the school systems. 1) Defund the department of education and shrink it's staff to under 100. 2) Remove the DoE's ability to make any requirements on states (not a constitutional power). 3) Stop funding state's education. Return the money to the taxpayers. 4) Reaffirm parental rights over government rights in the courts.

I note that at least in NJ, home schooling is now a protected right, well at least for Muslims (a protected group), Christians may still be accused of indoctrination if necessary.

LD35 and ALL Other Th Regulars
Liberal Trolls, The JPM (Jurassic Park Media) and Liberal Elected Officials have OFFICIALLY rendered themselves OBSOLETE! Despite OVERWHELMING evidence to the contrary they have painted 09/12 as a SMALL gathering of RACISTS. I was there and saw people of all ages, colors, religions, occupations, income levels and a myriad of other demographic factors. The Liberal Thugs who THREATENED Counter Demonstrations were NOWHERE to be seen. CNN & NBC both had remote trucks at the corner of Madison and 3rd. They could CLEARLY see how MASSIVE the turnout was, but have REFUSED to report objectively. Thus CEMENTING in place for all time their obeisance to those Cherished Liberal Values of Lying, Cheating and Cowardice. Therefore from this day forward, we should IGNORE Liberal Trolls, the JPM and ALL others Liberals, Liberal Thought and Liberal Media.

Fact vs Opinion
One difference I notice, and moreso lately, is that conservatives often do not distinguish between fact and opinion, assuming their opinion to be fact, especially if it is shared by like-minded others. We have seen this, for example,
in the birth certificate controversy, in accusations that Obama is a Nazi and a Communist, and in even wilder stories (that Obama will mandate circumcision, that he is training a private army, that he will euthanize the elderly and the disabled). When facts to the contrary are presented (or a total absence of fact is demonstrated) the conservative then relies on "Well, that's my opinion" or "I am entitled to my opinion" or "my opinion is that Obama (or some liberal media) is lying" (which magically erases the fact).

"I know that this is fact because I did research" usually turns out to mean that the conservative read something online written by another conservative. And much that is online is opinion, not fact---juicy rumors do well online, as they do on talk radio (For example, when Obama went to Hawaii to see his dying grandmother, Rush Limbaugh suggested that Obama was really making the trip to strongarm people into complying with birth certificate "lies", then when Obama's grandmother died (of cancer) we saw rumors that he'd had her killed to silence her, then an online poster wrote that he hadn't even gone to her funeral, when in fact the memorial service was delayed until he was able to be there over Christmas).

Fact: at sea level, water boils at 212* Fh.
Opinion: Roses are prettier than daisies. Ice cream is a better dessert than pie. People who like classical music are snobs. Obama is a Nazi.

Divide & Distract American's Part 1
Americans are Kept distracted so we never stand together. Between Bias News, and to many Special Interests ( a polite word for Stick It To The People ), how can anyone know how to unite. I thought the voting process was the answer to fair government, to weed out the bad seed, yet people still vote them in. If the distractions not race today, its health care, war, what ever it takes to keep you and I left out of the land our family’s took away from the English. That promise of a better tomorrow. The land of the free, not of the unborn debtors! The home of the brave, not of those too afraid to speak. With justice and liberty for all still being debated.
Spread across a land once respected, and even feared, now used as collateral for debts not of our creation. The respect and dependence on one another, like morals and fairness, lost when I can not say. I too have been distracted and in all honesty not always following what is really going on. Thinking that working to raise my family meant they would not have to share the same burdens. That I, as my father and his before him had accomplished, would see to that. Now I’m helpless, and unable to be that man. Diminished, and distracted, and feeling very alone. Watching my fellow country man lose their jobs, their families home, their hope. People homeless, veterans suffering here and abroad. Women and children, the young and the old, still being victims in this now civilized land.
We fought hard to have a country with citizens the envy of all. No oppressors, led by our own. What happened? Is it all my fault for being distracted all these years. Has my voice been silent for far to long. Can I ask my neighbor, or should I be afraid to speak. I see on the news, and read on line, and in the papers remaining two versions of the truth.

Hmmmm
I guess I'm neither liberal or conservative because I feel proud of my country for the wonderful things we've done, but I feel ashamed of the rotten, stupid things we've done. I'm proud of our constitution. I thinks it's the best the world has ever known. I'm proud of the Bill of rights. I think that freedom of speech and the press and separation of church and state are a big part of the reasons for America's greatness. But I'm ashamed of our greed and our belligerence. The world wide financial crisis was largely a failure of American style financial recklessness. And I see nothing in the Iraq war to be proud of. We either acted out of extreme paranoia, or the shameless desire for power over others. I'm also ashamed of the fact that we are by far the most violent society on earth.

But I welcome Medved's use of the health care debate as the dividing line between liberals and conservatives.

Liberals want an efficient health care system like they have in Europe––a system that covers everyone and costs 50% less than ours. Conservatives seem to be content with an inefficient health care system that leaves a lot of citizens out to dry, and is the cause of sixty percent of the bankruptcies in this country.

For me, this is not a divide between liberal and conservative; it's a divide between intelligent people and stupid people.

And for the record, the WHO of the UN ranks us 37th overall in health care.

Phylo out.

Divide & Distract American's Part 2
pledged allegiance to every morning in school as a kid. I placed my hand across my heart, and stood tall as I proudly sang out loud. Under God, was even allowed to be said then. The United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just words to me, something to believe in. Fought for with every ounce of strength. Desired. Now distracted.
Who to trust if not your own heart and soul. We all know right from wrong when we want to. Distractions have allowed that grey line to become prevalent. Look away from wrong doing or else you may have to be a true American. Doing your part, your share if you will. Sure it is the easy road, safer, after all who will stand with you. You have a family, or a friend, maybe even a pet. Who knows what else may be threatened if you stand up and say STOP. If your life depended on you doing the right thing, could you? Alone as it seems today. Are you ONE OF THE BRAVE? Do we have a right to live with out crime an sin? Will there be another day? Could we survive with LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL? I don’t know, ask me later I’m too distracted.


Lilly
Well said.

I've learned how to ignore the TROLLS
.
ASK ME HOW!

Okay...thanks for "not asking"....

Someone on another thread suggested that these hecklers, like Will, Hal Donahue, lilly, in a way "motivate" us all here...sorta like "cheerleaders."

WORKS FOR ME:

C'mon will!
Up with it, Hal!
Give us a RAH, lilly!

Don'tcha just *love* their outfits?!

Blowing Hard.
Conservatives and Liberals both want to change the role of government. One wants the government to uphold the advantage of being a white man, and the other wants to erase it. Of course there are other issues but the racial one is the most obvious. That is the reason why the appointment of Thomas Perez as head of the civil rights division of the justice department is feared by Conservatives. He is a Dominican-American that has fought for the underdog all his life. Civil rights for every minority is blowing in the wind, and it is blowing hard.

Divide & Distract American's Part 2
To me Red is Red, White is White, and Blue is Blue. Like the colors of the flag I pledged allegiance to every morning in school as a kid. I placed my hand across my heart, and stood tall as I proudly sang out loud. Under God, was even allowed to be said then. The United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just words to me, something to believe in. Fought for with every ounce of strength. Desired. Now distracted.
Who to trust if not your own heart and soul. We all know right from wrong when we want to. Distractions have allowed that grey line to become prevalent. Look away from wrong doing or else you may have to be a true American. Doing your part, your share if you will. Sure it is the easy road, safer, after all who will stand with you. You have a family, or a friend, maybe even a pet. Who knows what else may be threatened if you stand up and say STOP. If your life depended on you doing the right thing, could you? Alone as it seems today. Are you ONE OF THE BRAVE? Do we have a right to live with out crime an sin? Will there be another day? Could we survive with LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL? I don’t know, ask me later I’m too distracted.




Yup, "Phylo Se Fiser," you're Leftie #1
.
For you to write,

"But I'm ashamed of our greed and our belligerence. The world wide financial crisis was largely a failure of American style financial recklessness. And I see nothing in the Iraq war to be proud of. We either acted out of extreme paranoia, or the shameless desire for power over others. I'm also ashamed of the fact that we are by far the most violent society on earth"

pretty much sums it up.

Actually, I'd never call you "liberal."
An abuse of the word's true meaning...
...but that's the only way for Leftists to trick the unsuspecting.

Another divide?
It seems like the critics of townhall columns are usually more thoughtful, fact-based and respectful, whereas the townhall regulars tend to spew juvenile insults, empty catch phrases, and buzzwords.

I see...
.
...Phylo Se Fiser and melpol
in cute, short, pink and orange skirts,
jumping up and down with big, shiny red pom-poms.

Works for me!

LD35
"Date: Sep 16, 2009 - 9:00 AM EST
Our two
classes of people are made up of workers(Republicans) and those who want everything without lifting a hand(Socialist voters).
Got that Hal!"

Show me the data. Heck red states contain the poorest and least productive populations as a rule. How does this relate to your assertion? The actual productive workers appear to be mainly in blue states. You should be glad you now live in a blue state. Oh do you work?

The talking point
for liberals is "talking points."

The Blind leading the Blind!
It you want the perfect example of the difference between the Idiot Liberals and true Conservatives, just Read Hal's blog!!
The best Part of a Liberal has yet to be found but Hal displays every time he writes that John Wayne was right,Life's Tough, But its Tougher when your Stupid.

Ed Wallis
Thank you Ed Wallis. You have provided us with a perfect example of what's wrong with conservative thinking today. You edited out half of my statement to suit your preconceived opinion of me.

This is typical of today's conservatives. You only listen to talk radio and read only conservative columnists. You ignore actual news sources like the NYTimes, The Washington Post, CNN, etc.

You people only see and hear the information that fits your agenda.

As any intelligent person will tell you, this is a certain path to ignorance.

And we see the evidence of it every day.

You people believe that Obama is a Marxist, Stalinist who hates America and wants to destroy prosperity. The fact that the stock market is up 50% since Obama started implementing his economic policies is no hinderance to that insane belief.

You people believe that we have the best health care system in the world when the data clearly suggests otherwise.

You people believe that Iraq had ties with al Queda when there is zero evidence to support that claim.

These kinds of insane beliefs are the result of the kind of thinking that Ed Wallis just demonstrated for us all. This is what happens when you cherry pick your information to suit your predetermined agenda.


Hal
"Show me the data. Heck red states contain the poorest and least productive populations as a rule. How does this relate to your assertion? The actual productive workers appear to be mainly in blue states. You should be glad you now live in a blue state. Oh do you work?"

Hal, once again you show yourself as a kool-aid drinking tool. I can play this game too: if we break it down by county it can be shown that blue districts are less productive than red within those red states. Additionally, I live in the Atlanta area; the city of Atlanta (blue) is eminently more productive than the suburbs surrounding it (predominantly red). However, it should be noted that the producers living in those "less productive" red areas are the engine driving the productivity of the bluer Atlanta area. Contrast this with Detroit--a blue area in a blue state and with blue suburbs--you get the picture? Your paltry argument has no traction.

a point of similarity on left and right
There is something rather funny about this self-congratulating column. After all it is not the left that is now arguing that American values can't compete against those of the Islamic world and advocating that we embrace things like torture because our ideas are not strong enough.

It is true that those on the left tend to thing slavery was a bad thing, I am not sure why Medved thinks this contrasts with the right, I thought they knew that slavery was a bad thing.

And of course those changes that the left has put in place, Social Security and Medicare chief among them, or not exactly things that the public is now rebelling against.

Basically what Medved is doing here is defining the public debate in terms designed to stroke the ego of the right rather than to engage in serious debate. And maybe now the ego of the right needs stroking. After all despite the rights ease with connecting with the people they are currently out of power in both the executive and legislative branches with popularity hovering about the size of their base.

There are certainly interesting ways that the right and left differ (at least statistically) from each other. But Medved does not really seem to be interested in understanding. He wants to feel morally superior. And of course that is not a difference either. Too many liberals want the same thing.

Jim
RE: >You can regard or disregard anything you want, most people already understand where the confederate flag is still proudly flown and which part of the country is still considered conservative and right wing. Nor do I have to point out that the South flew this flag as they fought to protect their right to keep the institution of slavery. There is nothing more that I need to demonstrate.<

I hate to spoil your mythology with facts, but during the roughly 100-year post-Civil War period, the Jim Crow South was dominated by a single political party -- THE DEMOCRATS!

Good article, but
devoid of apostrophes.

Reply to "Fact vs Opinion"
Lilly from Ill,
I laughed when I read your opinion about conservatives. You may be delusional, but you are at least more entertaining--inadvertent though that may have been--about it than many of your liberal peers. FLASH: failing to distinguish between fact and fiction often affects folks on BOTH sides of the political divide. And I do mean DIVIDE. However, on balance, of course, I believe I am factually correct in saying that emotionalism, elitism, arrogance and anit-Americanism veritably PLAGUE the left. Dismayingly, I clearly see it and hear it every day. Doesn't take a great deal of perspicacity, genuius or heightened senses to be able to see and hear what we can ALL see and hear so very clearly. Save for the extreme right, I simply don't objectively see anything that approaches that level of immaturity, self-loathing and narcissism among conservatives. So, you're quite wrong in your "opinion", but I'm sure that, deep down, you are already aware of that. Try not taking yourself so seriously. You'll be much happier. We've all so much for which to be grateful--like being born in the USA. Embrace it. It's a source of much solace and joy.

Phylo
"You people believe that Obama is a Marxist, Stalinist who hates America and wants to destroy prosperity. The fact that the stock market is up 50% since Obama started implementing his economic policies is no hinderance to that insane belief."

You ignore empirical data confirming that Obama is a Marxist; he wrote in his books that he is attracted to those who espouse Marxist ideology, his friends are Marxists (Wright, Ayers, etc.), and so far half of his "czars" are Marxists of some flavor or another. I'm sorry but...quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, flocks with ducks...must be...a darn duck.

Jump, Phylo, JUMP!
.
Phylo Se Fiser
RAH RAH RAH!

"You people"
RAH RAH RAH!

Your trashmouthed screeds and those of your like-minded goons have no place here, so do not expect to be taken seriously when all you offer is heckling and diversion.

Cute skirt, cheerleader.

Reply to "Fact vs Opinion"
Lilly from Ill,
I laughed when I read your opinion about conservatives. You may be delusional, but you are at least more entertaining--inadvertent though that may have been--about it than many of your liberal peers. FLASH: failing to distinguish between fact and fiction often affects folks on BOTH sides of the political divide. And I do mean DIVIDE. However, on balance, of course, I believe I am factually correct in saying that emotionalism, elitism, arrogance and anit-Americanism veritably PLAGUE the left. Dismayingly, I clearly see it and hear it every day. Doesn't take a great deal of perspicacity, genuius or heightened senses to be able to see and hear what we can ALL see and hear so very clearly. Save for the extreme right, I simply don't objectively see anything that approaches that level of immaturity, self-loathing and narcissism among conservatives. So, you're quite wrong in your "opinion", but I'm sure that, deep down, you are already aware of that. Try not taking yourself so seriously. You'll be much happier. We've all so much for which to be grateful--like being born in the USA. Embrace it. It's a source of much solace and joy.

The REAL Fundamental Divide
Medved:
"With all exceptions duly noted, I think it fair to say that what liberals mostly see when they look at this country is injustice and oppression of every kind economic, social and political."

No, this is not fair at all, and this misconception and slander is why I am a Liberal.

I believe that the difference between Liberals and Conservatives, as least as the two terms are used today, is that Liberals are CAPABLE OF ACKNOWLEDGING that our country is and has been guilty of "economic, social, and political" at various times and various places over the course of our existence, while Conservatives equate any such acknowledgment as absolute hatred of America and proof that holder of such view is anti-american.

There is no one who loves this country more than I do. It is indeed "the greatest nation on God's green earth". (A statement that, as our agricultural run-off chokes more and more ocean surface with algal blooms, becomes more true each day!)

OBAMA IS VOID
obama showed his soul when he said "he did not want HIS daughters to be bothered with an un-wanted pregnantcy". obama is telling the world that he didn't even care that the un-wanted baby would be HALF his daughters and part of HIM and michelle. how cold could a human be..the measure of obama's soul.

OBAMA IS VOID
obama showed his soul when he said "he did not want HIS daughters to be bothered with an un-wanted pregnantcy". obama is telling the world that he didn't even care that the un-wanted baby would be HALF his daughters and part of HIM and michelle. how cold could a human be..the measure of obama's soul.

Georgetwin
Well, I personally can't comment on what the composition or numbers of the crowd in Washington DC for the 9/12 gathering was - because while you were in attendance there, I was in Vail, CO. And therefore I pretty much missed all the TV coverage/commentary on the event.

Although I fully expected that the left-stream media would flat-out lie about the numbers and composition of the attendees. But since I don't give any of my patronage to that media and haven't for years, it doesn't bother me anyway WHAT they report: heck, the only way I ever know anymore what they're saying is to hear about it on sites like this one or on Fox. Like you said, it's the Jurassic Park Media - and it's quickly going the way of the Jurassic, meaning the dead past.

And if the liberal thugs who threatened to disrupt the event were nowhere to be found because they quietly got word from Obama to cool it: well, it would be about the smartest decision Obama's made since becoming president.

The best joke of the day I've seen on this site so far was Phylo Se Fizer calling the NYTimes, the Washington Post, and CNN "actual news sources".

After the exposees on Van Jones and ACORN that have been given airplay on Fox News, Obama right now must be absolutely SEETHING at Fox - and probably wondering what in the world he can do to muzzle if not shut down altogether that network.

WHAT???
lilly:
"..in the birth certificate controversy.. and in even wilder stories (that Obama will mandate circumcision..."

Honest to God I never heard THAT one before! Are people realy making such a claim??

Well, 'forewarned is foreskinned', I guess.

Lon
Well said.

Be prepared for all kinds of juvenile insults. That's all these conservatives seem to know how to do. I never get one substantive rebuttal to any thing I say.

Watch this:

Can any conservative give me a good explanation for why it would be a bad idea to set up an insurance exchange that has a public option competing with private insurance companies?

(Note: The exchange would pool individuals and small businesses together so that they would have the same purchasing power as large corporations. The current legislation also requires the public option to compete on a level playing field and be self-sustaining.)

Anyone?

Hal
No, I don't work. I've been retired for a few yrs, but i have to keep living to pay for your food and shelter.
I'm also older than you...and i bet you're able to walk.....and hear.

StandsHisGround
ALL races, religions, occupations, age groups and ANY other Demographic Marker you care to name were WELL represented.

Medved's nonsense
Medved writes: "It follows that what liberals believe needs to be changed or discarded and apologized for to other nations is precisely what conservative are dedicating to preserving, reinvigorating and proudly defending against attack."

Okay.

So liberals would like us to be a less violent, less greedy nation. Conservatives want preserve our greedy, violent culture.

Liberals would like an efficient health care system, conservatives want to preserve our inefficient health care system.

Liberals would like the US to be seen by other countries as honest and humble in our greatness, conservatives want to preserve our reputation for dishonesty and belligerence.

Liberals would like to see sensible regulations to rein in the greed and recklessness on Wall St.. Conservatives want to preserve the policies that led to the two greatest financial disasters in American history.

Well, thanks for clearing all of this up for us Medved. Now I know where to stand politically.

ONE CONSERVATIVE RESPONSE
"Can any conservative give me a good explanation for why it would be a bad idea to set up an insurance exchange that has a public option competing with private insurance companies?"

The answer to that is easy, but also treads on certain notions that are part of Liberal objection to conservatism.
The key element to "competition" is the reward in the end. In this case it is "profit", the third rail in Liberal philosophy. The "end game", if you will,in this particular aspect of government establishment has nothing in place for "excellence" or "efficiency". Like the Post Office in comparison to UPS, those responsible for the execution of the service have no insentives to perform with efficiency and excellence,while UPS workers MUST fulfill the mandate of the mission statement of the company.
There is more but the "comments" would force me to do a blog. Maybe I will.
Human nature as it "is" and not as some "dream it to be" will always be an influence and for the most part negatively impact the mission.
Just a thought....

Wow
"Not a good idea to tell the woman in your life to get a post-graduate degree so she'd offer more interesting conversation"

I actually did that once. It was rather funny.

LD35
"Date: Sep 16, 2009 - 10:33 AM EST
Hal
No, I don't work. I've been retired for a few yrs, but i have to keep living to pay for your food and shelter.
I'm also older than you...and i bet you're able to walk.....and hear..."

Typical It seems the most rabid conservatives are no longer working for one reason or another. Is this kind of I have mine but you can't have yours or what? Serious question.

I am lucky I can still walk but the hearing part is dicier every day.

Earl thinks
Congratulations. That was actually fairly thoughtful. Wrong. But thoughtful.

Here's the problem. If you're right, then the public option will fail and everyone will continue to have their private insurance.

So there is no reason to oppose the public option. Right?

political divide
This is something we are not divided on,,., that is putting some controls on the banking system. Those controls are being debated in congress right now and the Banker lobbyists are prowling the halls with brief cases stuffed with cash. Contact your senator and reps if you have an interest in getting controls on these bums. If not we will be right back where we were, bankers gambling with our money.

Can't we all just get along?
Again with the "nicey nice" Mr. Medved? Those of us on the right have "sat quietly" for decades as the left browbeat us with accusations of starving the children, polluting the planet, being bigots, racists, homophobes and more. We were "moderate" Mr. Medved as the left instituted its politically correct restrictions on the very liberties you site in this article, in our moment cooperation.

Screw understanding the left, they have one agenda, to get their way and bring the rest of us into tow. That doesn't cut it Mr. Medved and you had better get that through you mushy pseudo-liberal feel good head.

Phylo
What an astonishingly dishonest post! Your characteristic of what conservatives want and what they promote is a product of leftist dishonesty here and abroad. What's next from you- Bush lied, kids died?

Conservatism stands for the best in American society. You talk about conservative greed, yet it is conservative Christians who give the most. You talk about conservative belligerence instead of liberal unwillingness to face the truth about evil regimes and movements. It's all part of exactly what Medved is talking about-- a mirror image of a basically good, basically free, basically prosperous America. Liberals act as if a mole on the face of a beautiful woman were the whole truth and ignore the beauty. Conservatives recognize the mole, but see the big picture.

Puntuation
Mr. Medved,

Please use appropriate puntuation, such as the
lowly comma when it is required. I sometimes
want to copy your messages to send to liberals
who need to read them, but I don't because they
will discredit your words, saying "he can't even
write correctly, so why should I listen to him".
I know this is unfortunate, but liberals will use any excuse to refuse to think past their socialistic views. I agree with your views, Mr. Medved; since I am first a Constitutionalist, then a conservative!

Don't talk to the trolls
Why would anyone read anything Hal has to say? Just scroll by and keep going.

Excellent Topic
An excellent topic for discussion and one which I find endlessly fascinating.

This past week I read that a new movie from England, "Creation", which I understand is a biography of Charles Darwin, cannot find marketing outlets in the United States because of expectation that conservatives will object to it being shown and will cause their usual loud trouble. The film is being featured at international film festivals and is praised as a good piece of film work. And, not having seen the film, I will say that ANY biographical subject receives a writer's interpretation and usually offends someone.

What is there to say when a major work of film can't be shown in the United States because it might upset conservatives? Or when a legal medical procedure is now nearly unavailable because conservatives don't want it done? Or when a legally elected President of the United States is daily smeared as Communist, Nazi, Socialist, Fascist, Black Militant, Muslim, non-citizen, street thug, drug dealer, gang member, criminal, pathological liar, and mentally ill person by conservatives who disagree with his policies---and so want to shut down his government ASAP by any means possible?


Robert
Obviously you couldn't see this but when I wrote that my tongue was firmly planted in my cheek. Of course what I wrote was one-sided, and I don't really believe that about most conservatives. (Though sometimes I wonder.) I was merely using Medved's illogic and sophism against him.

Itsabigcountry, you are right
Absolutely correct.

This Hal character is desperate for the attention. He needs it more than breath.

I plan to starve Hal to death.

Michael
Call me, Ishmael.

Phylo
My abject and humble apologies. It was an honorable mistake, since many doctrinaire liberals sound exactly like that-- sort of like the chant from "Animal Farm"- four legs good, two legs bad.

Hal
I've worked ever since i was 8 or 9 yrs old. I didn't like it but had to do it.
And i worked for a Company for nearly 40 yrs.

You can be a wise a## and make fun of me all you want, it don't bother me or anyone else here.

One of the best articles I've ever read!
Michael Medved has written one of the best articles I have ever read on this subject. It is timely, it is so revealing the stark differences among the masses. It compells us to stand among the many and be counted as individuals with very stark diffences. In America we should be devted to a country born out of a fierce longing to be free and have the spirit of innovation, hope and dreamers who as along as the country remains a 'DEMOCRACY' our hopes and dreams can become reality. In Communism, and socialism, hopes and dreams reamin in the hands of a controling govt rather than the free spirit of people who stand alone and their imagination by the grace of God can take them to the highest mountain and they can say with out a doubt, FRREEEEEDEOM. Let it rule out tyranats, facists, and those who would enslave us in spirit and body. Thank you Michael.

@ Jim's inability to provide evidence
For Jim to say "most people understand" is essentially to say no more than that he thinks so and that others, like-minded, think so too. And, actually, to say "Nor do I have to point out that the South flew this flag (the Confederate flag) as they fought to protect their right to keep the institution of slavery," is simply begging the question. The South fought for complex reasons, one of which (for some) was the institution of slavery. To claim that this made their flag a symbol of slavery is a huge stretch, but to claim this is still the case is preposterous.

If Jim thinks there is nothing further to demonstrate, there is, as I said previously, no reason to pay attention to him. He believes that his understanding (and that of all whom he regards as right-thinking people) is quite sufficient to demonstrate the truth of his claim; no hard evidence is needed. It is impossible to have a rational discussion with anyone who thinks that his understanding of a matter is indisputable truth.

Medved has posited one of his
usual brain dead arguments by saying that the polarization and coarsening of America is because the liberals are all bad and the conservatives are all good.

Since most posters here are in pretty much agreement with that stupendously deep and thoughtful assessment of the facts, I'll happily leave you to your navel - gazing and black ball predictions.

Declaration of Dependence, Part I
In America, November 4, 2008
The Unanimous Declaration of the Blue United States of America

When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to modify or dissolve the political bands which have connected them with others and to assume among the powers of the earth, the co-dependent and equal station to which the Laws of Human Secularism and Collectivism entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the demand for change.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men and women are created and must remain equal, that they are endowed by virtue of birth with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Health, Security and Entitlements. – That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the collective good, as determined by that Government, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes so individualist as to be antithetical to these ends, it is the Right of the People most of whom live in the most urban and most populous of the States of the Republic, to alter, abolish or overwhelm it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Health, Security and Entitlements. Imprudence and gratification, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience has shown that mankind are more disposed to avoid suffering, real or apparent, and the risk of individual accountability, by abolishing or altering the forms to which they are accustomed.

Dec of Dep, Part II
And when the variability of a free market system is altered and undermined by a long train of abuses and usurpations, and the collective objects sought appear to be denied or reduced under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security. Such has been the impatient and querulous sufferance of the proletariat classes; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former System of Government. The history of the present President is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these Blue States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his assent to laws, claimed by a Congress of Intermeddlers to be wholesome and necessary for the public good, regardless of cost.

He has vetoed, or threatened same, laws of immediate and pressing importance to the collective good.

He has refused to pass other laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, who seek entitlements of pressing concern to them.

He has for a long time prosecuted a war under false pretenses, claiming it to be necessary to defeat terrorism, but in fact it is merely a hegemonic ambition, and in so doing has sought to offset the staggering and unparalleled costs of this ambition by refusing to consider new entitlements, unless necessary for his re-election; the States remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

David S./Itsabigcountry
"Date: Sep 16, 2009 - 11:15 AM EST
Itsabigcountry, you are right
Absolutely correct.

This Hal character is desperate for the attention. He needs it more than breath.

I plan to starve Hal to death."

perfect! thank you

D of D, Part III
He has endeavored to expand the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners by encouraging amnesty for those who flaunt said Laws; yet refusing to pass others to encourage their legal migration hither, and refusing also to protect the borders of these States from illegal migration.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, applying a social litmus test, and declaring that our Constitution must never be considered a living document.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance, to provide, inter alia, pharmaceuticals at government cost to render the people ever more dependent, to reduce necessary regulation of free markets, and to nationalize both private and governmental financial entities.

He has egregiously supported Trade with all parts of the world, at the expense of American workers and jobs.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Congress.

He imposes unfair and unprogressive taxes upon us, reducing the tax burdens to favor the producers and those who pay taxes, over those who seek fairness through transfers of wealth.

He is at this time transporting and maintaining Armies of mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty and Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy [of] the Head of a civilized nation.

He has grown the size and scope of Government to the point that it is unsustainable, has placed the States in a precarious deficit, has undermined our credit with other lands and peoples, and yet the People can no longer safely expect and depend that their health, security and entitlements will be continued unabated.


D of D, Part IV
He has allowed corporations and businesses to pursue profit at the expense of the greater good, and has failed to enforce the requirement that businesses exist for the provision of jobs and social services, and to provide benefits unaffordable by government, rather than to enrich shareholders.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury and claims of “limited government”. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people, and those of his party are similarly unfit.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Red States brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislatures to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our dependence upon the welfare state. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and called upon them to respect our common kindred and to disavow these usurpations and to produce our goods, grow our food, provide for our common good, so that the collective may thrive and prosper. We have reminded them of our entitled, dependent circumstances and the necessity to support the collective good of all. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our changed circumstance, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace friends.

D of D, Part IV
He has allowed corporations and businesses to pursue profit at the expense of the greater good, and has failed to enforce the requirement that businesses exist for the provision of jobs and social services, and to provide benefits unaffordable by government, rather than to enrich shareholders.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury and claims of “limited government”. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people, and those of his party are similarly unfit.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Red States brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislatures to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our dependence upon the welfare state. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and called upon them to respect our common kindred and to disavow these usurpations and to produce our goods, grow our food, provide for our common good, so that the collective may thrive and prosper. We have reminded them of our entitled, dependent circumstances and the necessity to support the collective good of all. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our changed circumstance, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace friends.

D of D, Part V
We, therefore, the citizens of the United States of America, exercising the powers of the proletariat majority, appealing to Reason and Humanity for the rectitude of our intentions, and by authority of the good People of these States, solemnly publish and declare, that these united States are, and of right ought to be, Secure, Dependent States, subject only to the demands of the collective good, and that they should have the power to do all other acts and things necessary to secure prosperity for all equally, and that the wealth and liberty of individuals shall be subordinate to the collective good. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of the Government, we mutually pledge to each other -- from each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

MR MEDVED
One of the best articles I have read explaining the division in this country.

When I was much younger I called myself a moderate Liberal. I overcame being a liberal because Liberalism took on a new definition as I grew older.

Churchill said, "If you are not a Liberal when you are young you have no heart, if you are not a conservative when you are older, you have no mind".

About sums it up for me.

Sorry, but substance above punctuation!
What we are getting from Mr. Obama reminds me that all those pretty Harvard words, so meticulousy delivered are still no match for the common people. Substance above commas any day. It doesn't take a high brow any higher but elevates the common man and women who laucnced a nation in spirit and substance not fluff"

LD35
"Date: Sep 16, 2009 - 11:28 AM EST
Hal
I've worked ever since i was 8 or 9 yrs old. I didn't like it but had to do it.
And i worked for a Company for nearly 40 yrs.

You can be a wise a## and make fun of me all you want, it don't bother me or anyone else here..."

There was no intention to make fun of you by any means. I started working at nearly the same age. I am 62 and have no idea how old you are but I was very serious my hearing is pretty awful from over 20 years of jet noise. My point was and is that far too often the people making the most noise are the people who have theirs already. The question is serious?

Declaration of Dependence, An Opinion
When I devised this in November, it was to point out where Blue States and Liberals really stand on such things as freedom vs. the collective, and that, while Bush clearly had faults, this is how our original Declaration would change if the left was given the opportunity to rewrite it.
I prefer the original version, and I think Medved is saying that conservatives would as well. But I'll bet the libs are poring over it now, trying to find something in it with which they disagree.

Conservatives and Liberals love America
Liberals are no more America haters than Conservatives --- most Liberals and most Conservatives love America.

One real difference between Conservatives and Liberals is that Conservatives focus their attention on preserving what is good and Liberals on fixing the small amount that is not. Naturally, each talks mainly of what is in their focus. Conservatives misinterpret Liberals’ suggestions for change as an attack on everything American. Liberals misread Conservatives’ defense of the traditional as a defense of the little that is inefficient or unjust in America.

Another real difference between Conservatives and Liberals is their World View --- the way in which they view America. Conservatives generally see America thru the eyes of the best off, Liberals thru the eyes of the w