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Wednesday, May 06, 2009
Michael Medved :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama Should Listen to Leviticus: Don't Confuse Justice and Charity
by Michael Medved
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The core mistake of liberalism involves the confusion of charity and justice.

How do we know it’s a disastrous error to blur the distinction between these two timeless virtues?

Because the Bible specifically warns us against it.

Last Saturday, Jewish people around the world read Leviticus 19:15 as part of the weekly “Torah Portion” – the specific segment of the Five Books of Moses assigned since ancient times for synagogue recitation on this particular Sabbath of the calendar.

The text declares (in the best modern translation): “You shall not commit a perversion of justice; you shall not favor the poor and you shall not honor the great; with righteousness shall you judge your fellow.”

The unmistakable commandment to avoid favoring the poor comes as something of a shock: doesn’t the Bible, and especially the New Testament, repeatedly remind us to deal generously with the less fortunate, and to care for widows, orphans and paupers in general?

The truth is that the Bible – both Old and New Testament—views compassion as a personal obligation rather than a public priority for governmental or judicial policy. The all important warning against tilting the scales of justice toward the poor appears just three verses before the most famous single injunction in all of Scripture: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Leviticus, 19:18).The juxtaposition of God’s directives makes it clear that not even love for your neighbor can allow “perversion of justice.” Justice and charity must remain distinct—not just separate, but in some ways opposite polarities.

The importance of this distinction particularly concerned the great Rashi (Rabbi Shlomo Ytizchaki, 1040-1105), considered the most authoritative expositor of millennia-old oral traditions on the Biblical text. More than 900 years ago, Rashi addressed the verse in question and faced the puzzle of why the Bible forbids bias on behalf of the poor even before it forbids favoritism for the rich. “You shall not say, ‘This man is poor, and the rich man is obliged to support him,” the eminent Rabbi wrote. A judge is strictly prohibited from saying “I shall favor the poor man in this suit, and thus he will make a respectable living.” As a 20th Century rabbi (Nosson Scherman) succinctly summarized the point: “The Torah insists that justice be rendered honestly; charity may not interfere with it.”

Ironically, the Jewish world focused on this point this year in precisely the same week (the first Sabbath in May) in which President Obama faced his first opportunity to appoint a new justice to the Supreme Court of the United States. In some of his campaign comments about criteria for such an appointment, the future president specifically indicated he wanted a judge with a “heart” for the poor and downtrodden, and who would concentrate on their specific interests and needs—in other words, precisely the sort of jurist prohibited by Leviticus.

Allowing justice to be twisted by emotions of sympathy for the unfortunate is no less corrupting than bending toward the rich and powerful out of a sense of awe or admiration, or in hopes of personal advancement. In both cases, feelings block the scrupulous application of rules of logic and fairness. In both cases, Jewish tradition suggests that the judge (or any other government official) has been, in effect, bribed.

On this point, leaders of the liberal Jewish establishment would no doubt object to the whole line of scripture-based reasoning, making the point that the Hebrew word for justice – “tzedek” – is directly related to the colloquial term for charity – “tzedaka.” This linguistic point has allowed many generations of Jewish fundraisers to make the pitch that for us, charitable giving isn’t a matter of special kindness or generosity, but an obligation of simple justice. As the Book of Deuteronomy (16:20) famously and resonantly declares: “Justice, justice shalt thou pursue.”

Actually, the better translation for this celebrated phrase (“Tzedek, tzedek teerdof” in Hebrew) would be “Righteousness, righteousness you should pursue.” When the book of Leviticus bans bias toward the poor as a “perversion of justice” the word used isn’t “tzedek” (best rendered as “righteousness”) but rather “Mishpat” (best rendered as “law” or “judgment”). Righteousness constitutes a personal goal for each individual – and very much includes charitable giving, and acts of loving-kindness for the impoverished and powerless. “Law” (or “judgment”) on the other hand describes an expression of organized society or governmental authority, which should treat all society’s members, rich and poor alike, in a non-prejudicial and neutral manner.

This distinction between personal obligations and official policy brings important implications for current controversies. As individuals, we should never try to look on Bill Gates and a homeless beggar as equally deserving of our sympathy or generosity. At the same time, twisting the law or administrative policy to favor the beggar in a dispute with Bill Gates would require the same abandonment of impartiality as privileging the Software Sultan over the pauper.

Does this mean that a system of progressive taxation constitutes the blurring of justice and charity that the Bible decries? The answer is almost certainly yes, and helps explain why so many conservatives yearn for a system of flat taxes or consumption taxes to replace the current nightmare of the IRS. This doesn’t mean that Mr. Gates would ever pay the same tax bill as our imaginary homeless gent--- if they both paid 10%, Mr. Microsoft would still pay vastly more in precisely the same ratio that he earned vastly more. But a system under which top earners get slammed with a 39.6% rate (as they will if Obama lets Bush tax cuts lapse, as promised) and struggling householders pay nothing, but actually get checks from the government totaling thousands of dollars (through the Earned Income Tax Credit and other scams), very clearly represents a society organized to favor the poor in a way that violates unbiased justice.

At a time when the outspoken religious left wants to claim scriptural sanction for its redistributionist schemes, when President Obama searches for a judge who will follow her compassionate heart rather than the Constitution, it’s appropriate to recall the timeless and necessary Biblical separation between public justice and private compassion.

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About The Author
Michael Medved's daily syndicated radio talk show reaches one of the largest national audiences every weekday between 3 and 6 PM, Eastern Time. Michael Medved is the author of eleven books, including the bestsellers What Really Happened to the Class of '65?, Hollywood vs. America, Right Turns and, most recently, The Ten Big Lies About America.
 
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Law and Order in the New Testament
"Excellent article!" is my first impression. Christians find further support from the apostle Paul's letter to the Romans (chapter 13): "[A ruler] is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil." The concept of vengeance is the concept of justice, which is the civil government's main responsibility. Redistribution of wealth is actually a perversion of justice, as Mr. Medved shows so clearly. President Obama, by crippling the military has neglected his main responsibility (law and order, protection against foreign aggressors). He has instead radically expanded the budget and assumed for himself powers over the economy, business, health care, etc. that don't belong to him.

And
this usurpation goes on and on without anyone
calling him on it..and by anyone I mean the so called Republicans. Even a minority can be a squeaky wheel and keep hammering away at his unconstitutional power grabs. But as usual, they flop around like dying fish trapped in a draining pond.

Obama and Israel
Michael Medved makes sound points about charity and the Obama Administration. But I see a major international problem that may well define Obama forever. The Israeli Palestinian conflict is going to test Obama's loyalties and commonsense. I believe that he will distance himself from Israel, our best ally in the Middle East, and, in effect, throw Israel to the Muslim wolves. The irony is that Jewish voters who voted overwhelmingly for him didn't see this coming, but many conservatives familiar with his life story and associates could have predicted this coming crisis.

NOT LEVITICUS 19 BUT EXODUS 20:3
If the Prophet Jeremiah were resurrected from the dead and living in 21st century America I imagine him focusing his righteous rage on the unprecedented growth of government power and thundering the following warning to the people, the Congress and President Obama:

'By the Immutable Law of God, the Holy Law of right and wrong and reason; the Law of historical progress in morality and freedom, America is about to tragically learn that God is not government or politicians high priests. And those who deify government and raise it to the sky, who ignore the commandment: "Before me you shall have no other gods" will be struck down by His mighty hand blown away like dust from the places of power!'

True Charity
While appreciative of biblical wisdom, it doesn't take a religious text to figure out that the welfare system of the Federal Government is not charity, nor is it justice.

When I was a young screw-up I was on food stamps for a brief time. You went to an office, stood in line, filled out some paper work and got a hand-out. The person behind the window wasn't giving the vouchers to me out of the kindness of her heart, it was her job. She didn't know me from Adam. No one in Washington who crafted welfare legislation knew me or cared about me either, nor did the people whose tax money funded my meals. Nor did I care nor was I appreciative of the source of my blessings, because I didn't know them either. Nor had I done anything to deserve it, which is the definiton of justice. Justice said I should starve because I was a bong-headed high school drop-out who didn't put effort into work and responsible living.

Anyone who thinks charity is using the big machine of government to take money from hundreds of millions of people at the barrel of a gun and dole it out to others in an impersonal anonymous process doesn't have their head on straight. Charity is giving from the heart from person to person. The Federal Government has robbed its people of the character and community that is built through local voluntary giving to those in need, and instead has fostered a system which breeds corruption, laziness, and greed.

hmmm
what are you saying Ranger29? i agree with Mr. Medved

Ranger 29
Mr. Obama just got down objecting to some project or other on the basis of his putative Christianity. That would mean he is supposed to subscribe to at least the sense of the Bible, Leviticus included. That he explicitly takes steps which obviously violate the sense and the letter of the book he is supposed to be taking as sacred, means he should be called out on it.

And, besides, the Constitution also prescribed equal justice for all, regardless of status.

And we don't 'always' throw the Bible at Obama. Most sane people don't 'always' do much of anything.

Perhaps you do so, eh?

mr_sparky
You need to skip past ranger and not respond to "it". He's never sober.

Justice needs to treat all equally.
Sounds like M agrees with President Obama.

Justice needs to treat all equally.

I think what he is looking for justice is a swing to the middle from the last 30+ years as treating the wealthy as special.

Same crime? Wealthy do less time.

Corporations do no time.

Blind Justice,
Justice has always been portrayed as blind for very good reason.

If the law does not mean EXACTLY what it says -- as the terms were understood at the time of the writing -- then there is no point in having written law at all.

If the Constitution of the United States of America does not mean EXACTLY what it says -- as the terms were understood at the time of the writing -- then there is no point in having a written Constitution at all.

Equality does not mean advancing this group or holding back that group based on how Pharaoh's favor falls. Equality means treating each, individual person EXACTLY the same way regardless of group membership or personal circumstances. Period. End of discussion.

Justice is a form of Charity, love
Justice is a form, a type of charity, love, in that it sometimes is 'tough love,' putting a criminal in prison so s/he can do no more harm to him/herself. Obviously, justice is also charity toward the majority who are not crooks.

If there is any place in law for empathy or charity, it is in the sentencing phase, when a judge or jury can take factors into account, as in the old Anglo-Saxon 'courts of equity.'

Good job, Medved
Justice, charity, and fairness are separate concepts. Often they are diametrically opposite. Thank goodness life treats most of us much better than we deserve. If we are lucky enough to be born in the US of A, anyway.

Good article Mr. Medved
But your assumption that Barry Dunham confuses charity and justice is a false premise.You were also using the wrong Bible.

Barry's bible is "Rules for Radicals" by Saul D. Alinsky. His judicial appointments will have nothing to do with empathy.Believe me...,there is no confusion.

Everything he does has to do with politics and paybacks. Why else would he and fellow Dems. do away with the voucher system and send hundreds of promising students back into the chaos of the D.C. Public School System?

Could it be that he had big paybacks to make to the Teacher's Union? Yes...,President Dunham wants everyone in the nation to have an excellent education. He wants college for ALL! But he's willing to throw children under the bus to placate a Union.

It's getting very crowded under that bus!




Liberalism vs Christianity
I don't know why anyone would be surprised that Obama and his minions are not really Christians. If the reverend Wright is a Christian, then I am Willy the Whale. Liberalism is a religion in itself, though I would call it a pagan religion of those who believe that human beings should worship Mother Nature instead of the God of Abraham. Liberalism is a cult in which people believe that the government should nurture them from the cradle to the grave. To them, Justice is Equality. They want a future where everyone is considered equal and nobody has more or less than anyone else. This is indeed a bleak and glum world view. Since everyone cannot be happy and productive and wealthy, then nobody should be. Charity has nothing to do with Obama's plans. It's all about justice and equality as seen through his eyes. To be a just society, we must all be equally misearable and by God, Barak is working 24/7 to accomplish it. You go Barny.


OK, Ranger...
Let's look at the Constitution. Mr. Medved has cited the Biblical text supporting his proposal. Cite, if you will, the Constitutional basis for yours. To wit: the exact Article and Section where "We, the People" gave the federal government the power to seize the private property of one citizen and then gift it to another.

And we all say.....
Amen

They're confusing more than that.
"The core mistake of liberalism involves the confusion of charity and justice."

______________________________________________

The confusion derives from a more fundamental mistake of confusing self-righteousness with Righteousness.

I cannot help but observe that the core constituency of Liberalism, which has its roots in the nostrums of the Enlightenment philosophes, has traditionally been overrepresented by secular Jews and fallen away Believers, who, rejecting the True Basis of their traditions in favor of a mere shadow of them, pervert them and thereby make the rest of us suffer.

=====


Should be...
"...fallen away CHRISTIAN Believers..."

It just got scarier

Oh Medved
First of all, if you're going to take Leviticus seriously, you also have to advocate for stoning gays and adulterers to death.

And if I understand correctly, Medved, speaking for Republicans, is advocating that we raise taxes on the poor and the working class, so that we can lower taxes for the rich.

I say this sounds like a winning platform to me. I wholeheartedly encourage Republicans to make these policies central to your political platform. Kill the gays and raise taxes on the poor! Sounds like a winner to me.

Phylo out.



Jesus
What do Republicans think Jesus meant when he said that the meek shall inherit the earth?

I imagine they think along the lines of the John Cleese character in Monty Python's Life of Brian who said, while walking away from the sermon on the mount, "What this Jesus doesn't understand is that the meek are the problem!"

And why do the majority of Republicans seem to ignore Jesus when he warned that a wealthy man entering the kingdom of heaven is as difficult as a camel passing through the eye of a needle? What twisted logic do they employ to get around that one?

Can any of you help me understand that?


Phylo
YOu are showing your ignorance amazingly. Better to be quiet when you don't know what you are talking about. The Bible contains a great deal of common sense.

HELP THEM DIE NOW
we don't watch them. their ratings are in the sewer. their stations are near bankruptsy. you know who i am referring to. the majority of americans would not know they even existed, if not for one thing. conservative talk radio host! my country is in deep trouble. we cannot waste one minute of our radio time (while we still have it) commenting on what some drone said about a conservative. laura ingraham is one of the worst offenders. she will tell her listeners what one of these crude drones has said about conservatives and follow up by saying "but i like him or she's okay". what kind of stupid is that! enough! the reason the drones say the outragous things to begin with is because they get a wet feeling on their leg when they hear their mentioned anywhere. tell your favorite radio host to never mention these drones or their station call letters again. enough is enough.

Medved
Liberation Theology - Is not Christian and does not have its roots in Judaism. It's foundation is Karl Marx. It uses similar terminology, like other cults, that the Bible uses. But the terms are defined differently. Don't expect a man that has been saturated in Marxism to understand the Holy Scriptures. It will take a miracle. He is who he is.

HELP THEM DIE NOW
we don't watch them. their ratings are in the sewer. their stations are near bankruptsy. you know who i am referring to. the majority of americans would not know they even existed, if not for one thing. conservative talk radio host! my country is in deep trouble. we cannot waste one minute of our radio time (while we still have it) commenting on what some drone said about a conservative. laura ingraham is one of the worst offenders. she will tell her listeners what one of these crude drones has said about conservatives and follow up by saying "but i like him or she's okay". what kind of stupid is that! enough! the reason the drones say the outragous things to begin with is because they get a wet feeling on their leg when they hear their name mentioned anywhere. tell your favorite radio host to never mention these drones or their station call letters again. enough is enough.

HELP THEM DIE NOW
we don't watch them. their ratings are in the sewer. their stations are near bankruptsy. you know who i am referring to. the majority of americans would not know they even existed, if not for one thing. conservative talk radio host! my country is in deep trouble. we cannot waste one minute of our radio time (while we still have it) commenting on what some drone said about a conservative. laura ingraham is one of the worst offenders. she will tell her listeners what one of these crude drones has said about conservatives and follow up by saying "but i like him or she's okay". what kind of stupid is that! enough! the reason the drones say the outragous things to begin with is because they get a wet feeling on their leg when they hear their name mentioned anywhere. tell your favorite radio host to never mention these drones or their station call letters again. enough is enough.

Precisely Right
Excellent, excellent article! The encouragements and commands in the Bible (including the book of Acts where it is stated that everyone shared everything) are SEPARATE FROM GOVERNMENT-FORCED CHARITY! They are directed towards personal charity. Jesus was not a member of the government! If the government would get out of the way there is no end to the charitable giving that would happen. There are plenty of non-government charitable organizations. With lower taxes but continued tax deductions those organizations would be flooded with donations. As a matter of fact, the fact that the left wants government to force "charity" based on their view of Scripture is closer to violating the establishment clause of the 1st amendment than anything the right has ever done!

Once again, Mr. Medved
You astound me with the clarity of your analysis. I was not familiar with that particular verse from Leviticus. What a stinging rebuke for religious leftists who seek to misuse the Bible as a cudgel in the debate over wealth-redistribution. (For example, Hugo Chavez, who calls Jesus Christ "the first socialist"). This distinction between individual and social ethics gets too little attention these days.
Nice catch with the income tax remarks, by the way. It's frightening just how badly we have perverted justice already. But "emotional justice" has manifested in other, less obvious ways. Affirmative action, anyone?

Bravo, Michael. Your best piece so far this year.

Phylo's economics 101
Mistaking class envy for compassion, Phylo imbibes the bromides.

And as long as 51% of the electorate remain similarly detached from reality, the "poor" will remain poor, while the rich will decrease their economic activity and the "working class" will be wiped out.

Excellent points, Mr. Medved!
Are the Liberal, Obama-hugging blind men ever going to see the big picture? We are fast-approaching our high noon. Thanks for clearing away some of the dust from my eyes. I appreciated your exposition of the difference between justice and charity.

To Jon, Jersey Vet, Tea Party, Apollo Speaks, RedWhiteandBlue, and other supporters of this article, thank you for the clarity of your comments. And to St. Denis, I hope you don't move to France!! We need you here!!

Chuck
I'm saying you should push forth this agenda of raising taxes on the poor. I think it's a brilliant idea. But don't forget about stoning the gays. God said so, after all.

I
like that obama is wise enough to know empathy is a very important in a Judge. Take the case of the 13 year old girl, who was stripped searched in the principal's office, in order to find an aspirin! Judge Alito and some of the other nimwitz think that just dandy.

Phylo says
"And if I understand correctly," Nah, you don't understand correctly, so all the clauses which come after the above are worthless. Medved's article was about the correct operation of the courts, not about raising taxes on anyone, poor or rich. That was just your intentional biased misinterpretation.

Phylo says:

"And why do the majority of Republicans seem to ignore Jesus when he warned that a wealthy man entering the kingdom of heaven is as difficult as a camel passing through the eye of a needle? What twisted logic do they employ to get around that one?

Can any of you help me understand that?"

First of all, no, no one can help you understand that, because you are ineducable. Neither Medved nor any (Christian) commenter denies the content of the quote from Jesus that you give. Problem is, it's a non sequitur in an article about the just, fair operation of courts.

Leviticus 20:9
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.

Bible
ISn't the part of the Bible the US takes most of it's philosophy from the Gospels?

Mother of 4
Absolutely.

Lulu
What the heck! I think I'm going to cover my front door. Is this a joke?

JMartin
I see, so you get around the whole eye of the needle thing by simply ignoring it.

Brilliant!

And yes, Medved did make the point about a progressive tax system. Did you not read the whole article?

Here's the relevant part:

"Does this mean that a system of progressive taxation constitutes the blurring of justice and charity that the Bible decries? The answer is almost certainly yes, and helps explain why so many conservatives yearn for a system of flat taxes or consumption taxes to replace the current nightmare of the IRS."

And the only way to do that would be to raise taxes on the poor.

So there.

Charity
1: benevolent goodwill toward or love of humanity

2 a: generosity and helpfulness especially toward the needy or suffering ; also : aid given to those in need b: an institution engaged in relief of the poor c: public provision for the relief of the needy

3 a: a gift for public benevolent purposes b: an institution (as a hospital) founded by such a gift

4: lenient judgment of others

What part about "charity" do right wingers have a problem with?

Phylo's brilliant idea
"I think it's a brilliant idea..."

A poor gay would.

Uggh
Phylo-- What happens when I give a dollar to someone in need? They get the whole dollar!

What happens if a dollar is taken from me by the government on the promise that it is being given to the poor?

The poor end up with a nickle and we end up supporting a big fat government.

WAKE UP!!!!!!

Your quotes of passages of the Bible
Please quote the Bible accurately using the correct and error free 1611 King James Version of God's Word. Leviticus 19:15 says. "Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgement: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: "but" in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighour."

Leviticus 19:18 says, "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I "am" the Lord."

Re: Joycey - The correct statment would be, marxism and islam. The man is a combination of marxist and muslim. he is not a Christian in any shape or form. His "christianity" is all for show.

Charity
does not go through the government. Have you guys ever opened a history book?

Taft asks
"What part about "charity" do right wingers have a problem with?"

The part about government coercion.


None
I did not know Black Liberation Theology had anything to do with Islam?

Liberals
rarely give to Charities. They just take from the government.

OBAMA
is the perfect example. He has spent his whole life living off of taxpayers.

Lulu
It's like H.G. Wells creepy. I think I understand the War of the Worlds alot better now.

Dr. Ludwig van Mises
If history could prove and teach us anything, it would be the private ownership of the means of production as a necessary requisite of civilization and material well-being. All civilizations have up to now been based on private property. Only nations committed to the principle of private propety have risen above penury and produced science, art, and literature. There is no experience to show that any other social system could provide mankind with any of the achievements of civilization.

Abraham Lincoln
Prosperity is the fruit of labor. Poperty is desirable, is a positive good in the world. that some should be rich shows that others may become rich and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another, but let him work diligently to build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence...I take it that it is best for all to leave each man free to acquire property as fast as he can. Some will get wealthy. I don't believe in a law to prevent a man from getting rich;IT WOULD DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD.

Understanding for Phylo
The Bible simultaneously contains nonsense, common sense, wisdom, and contradiction. History indisputably shows that the meek inherit the earth only in the sense that the meek usually inherit dirt. The "inherit the earth" and eye of the needle" statements were sales pitches pandering to the greed and envy of Jesus' target market, the out-of-power Jews, promising to shower them with riches and power over their enemies if they supported him. In other words, like the Obama campaign.

Redundant advice to SMiC
(SMiC = surrender-monkey-in-chief")

Since Oblunder knows neither charity nor justice, the advice about "confusing" the two is 1,000% redundant!

Justice and charity.

Thank you, Medved... for pointing out what many of us here have done for some time.

True justice is blind.
Private charity builds up.
Public charity destroys.

And when will some conservative pol finally grow a pair of them, go into the inner cities and shout from the roof-tops, "You are being shafted... and royally".

It's about time that they find out who their true friends are.

And who's absusing them, shamefully... all for their OWN power.




JMartin-LC-Pistol-Joycey-Lulu-MO4-Others
Questions for the Sail Eared Simpleton
1. How is giving away Other People's Money charitable?

2. How is that War on Poverty that Liberals declared 40 YEARS AGO going?

3. How much of her $7000 a week salary from her "service" job did Michelle donate to charity?

4. Does Reverend Wright donate the proceeds from sales of his sermons on CD to charity?

5. Does Bill Ayers donate to the families of people he MURDERED?

Charity is a teaching of faith
If religion is not to be part of government, then government is not a part of religion.
1st Amendment.

Charity cannot come about by law, this is the basic teaching of Jesus Christ and the New Testament.
"Righteousness does NOT come by a LAW"

Righteousness does not come by a law, it comes by faith.

We have Christians today who do not understand this fundamental Christian teaching and support a law to force charity from confiscatory taxes.

Keeping Government to address Justice and the Church to address Charity to be separate as everyone gives lip service to except when their politics cross over into a religious concept such as Charity.


BIBLE
The problem is;people don't read the bible anymore and when they do it's just some perversion of the original
KJV.Supposedly we are a nation of about 80% christians(round figure)but it that was the case,why are the wicked ruling?
Why has their been millions slaughtered in the abortion mills since Roe V Wade?Why has the bible been taken from the school,why the Ten commandments been thrown aside?

Obama is not going to listen to or read the bible because he's not a christian!He may have gone to church,
but he didn't hear the gospel in Wrights church;all he heard was hatred
for our country.

Empathy? Charity? Mercy?
Well, for openers, charity and empathy are not at all the same thing, so today's article is built on a false premise. But then, as long as we're branching out, let's see what Shakespeare said on the subject of humanizing a court judgment. This speech is addressed to a courtroom where someone is insisting that the letter of the law be followed in a way that would satisfy his desire for vengeance, but would be cruel:

"The quality of mercy is not strained.
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice-blessed:
It blesses him that gives and him that takes.
'Tis mightiest in the mighty. It becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown.
His scepter shows the force of temporal power
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings,
But mercy is above that sceptered sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings;
It is an attribute of God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God's
When mercy seasons justice...We all do pray
For mercy, and that same prayer doth teach us all
To render the deeds of mercy.

If one takes notice
Of the principles of the progressives among us, they condemn a church that would force its members to donate to the Priesthood and distribution of their goods, but commend this practice if done by a Government.

Extreme hypocrisy

Lilly
Thanks for the full speech. This column also reminded me of those very lines, but I only remembered the first four or so.

You mis-reas the article lilly
You are the problem, not the article.
========================

lilly writes:
Empathy? Charity? Mercy?
Well, for openers, charity and empathy are not at all the same thing, so today's article is built on a false premise.
=======================

Start over and read the article and open your mind this time.

Your mind is closed and does not allow you to understand what the article is about

Anti-Tax Folks Speak on the Constitution
1. Second Amendment (guns), good.
2. Strict adherence to Constitution, good.
3. Sixteenth Amendment (taxation), bad.

The limited views of limited cons
is that institutions like public schools, tax money that provides help for the severely disabled, the parentless, the victims of catastrophic natural events, health, etc., are to be stripped from government programs because everybody should be able to be as selfish as this like.

this is so stupid, and so misunderstood; education, health, support for the mentally ill, the chronically ill, etc. occur because society, in the end, would not prosper without it. If conservatives had their way and all care for the helpless was turned over to them for determination as to who was deserving, riots and civil unrest would ensue, peopled by the very illiterate and nothing-left-to-lose population that they despise so much.

Government is not protecting the disenfranchised out of any biblical admonition, it does it to protect you.


last, anyone who has left their computer
long enough to actually watch a courtroom trial know that even the practice of law has nothing to do with justice.

This whole argument is specious.

Favoring the poor over the rich
Is this not based on the "social progressive" concept that the poor are poor because they have been victimized by the rich? The so-called "distribution of the wealth" if fully applied will result in everybody being equal in impoverishment since the incentives for producing wealth will be destroyed. One thing that socialism has never been able to fully deal with is basic human nature, which is a gift of God.

lilly
duh. Our founding fathers were brilliant. You are duh.

Menu Changes Now Mandated
I have shrimp, scallops, and pork chops in my freezer. Ham salad and bacon are in my refrigerator. Excuse me a minute while I go throw them all in the garbage: Medved says we're supposed to be following Leviticus, and Leviticus says we must not eat shellfish or pork. And the bit about not seething a kid in its mother's milk? That means no mixing of meat and milk, so scratch grilled ham and cheese sandwiches from the lunch menu, and forget about making scalloped potatoes with the rest of the Easter ham that's in the freezer. And no creamed chicken on hot buttered biscuits either---that will break my husband's heart as he just loves that.

Oooops, what's that you say? Christians don't necessarily have to follow Leviticus? About dietary laws and vengeance? Something about "Ye have heard it said, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but we don't do it that way---we're nicer than that---if another guy compels you to go with him one mile, I say, go with him twain"? Be generous, and charitable, and, oh yes, empathetic? Oh.

Fred
You have never opened the Old Testament in your life except to look at the pictures.

Fred, you and lilly are hopeless
You neither understand what a principle or a concept is.

Instead of understanding the point of the article, you both go off on a tear about where the principle was addressed 4,000 years ago.
As if this same question for today did not exist back then.

Both of you are too stupid to argue with

Fred your thinking is so backward
must spend most of your life running into walls.

The Federal Government is not a charity.
Socialism does not raise anyone's standard of living.

My brother died. The government tries to step in. What do they want to give may sister-in-law? $1,000.00 a month only if she doesn't go to work. She relies on the charity of her neighbors and church and family. You are a big idiot.

lilly
if you are the best and brightest the enlightened progressives have to offer we are in a heap of trouble. Stop spouting off. Sit and read the Bible. Then come back and speak with some intelligence not ignorance.

lilly
Only an uneducated nincompoop would say what you just said. You are a waste of time.

Georgetwin fellow MDer
May I give my answers instead of Barry?

1. It isn't. He doesn't care.

2. I guess it's going pretty well. They've managed to employ multitudes of bureaucrats to oversee the "WAR".That's job creation.
Barry and his fellow Dems. voted to kill the voucher system and return many promising students to failing public schools. This insures a "surge" of new bureaucrats. A "surge that Barry will support!

3. Hardly anything. But c'mon...,she DOES dole out food somewhere in her $400.00 plus sneaks.PLUS..., when her garden is ready for harvest I heard she's taking all her extra tomatoes and zucchini to a D.C. food bank.

4. No...,Rev. Wright has a mansion somewhere and a couple of Mercedes. He's retired now so he's got a lot of stuff to pay for with his Trinity pension.

5. Ayers has selective memory. He does not remember that his rear end was kept out of prison because of a legal snafu, not innocence.He also tells us all that no one died because of his bombings. Well...,O.K., one guy was paralyzed, but hey...that's not murder! DUH!


LC
THANKS! I got honest answers from you! I would NEVER get them from a Liberal.

Joycey
It seems that Only a conservative would consider anybody who can quote Shakespeare a nincompoop.

As a newcomer to Town Hall, this tells me everything I need to know.


Medved
I see you learned your lessons well and a conservative radio pilot.

You can sell any thing, any idea, any sentiment so long as you quote the bible.

A+ for you, keep at it, Republicans need more like you.

A "compassionate" judicial appointment
"Profiling" is reviled by the Left as unfair, except, it seems, for choosing a Supreme Court Justice. For the ultimate choice that would fulfill all of their requirements, Obama should choose an impoverished, unmarried, Latino, lesbian, disabled single mother. Who cares about choosing the person who can most accurately apply the Constitution when you can make a "compassionate" choice?

Shakespeare
wasn't a nincompoop.

Shakespeare
Read the Bible.
It is obvious to anyone that has read the Bible when someone comments that has not. If you comment on something you know little about you are a nincompoop.

lilly = Mod Mark In A Dress
"Christians don't necessarily have to follow Leviticus? About dietary laws and vengeance?"

To paraphrase Mod Mark: Why did Christianity take such a dangerous turn to the right with the birth of Christ?

Lilly, Leviticus (from Greek relates to the Levites) is the third book of the Torah (Pentateuch), the name given in Judaism to the first five books of the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament).

"Something about "Ye have heard it said, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but we don't do it that way---we're nicer than that---if another guy compels you to go with him one mile, I say, go with him twain"?"

Were you not arguing that "Islam is the solution" the other day?

Yep, that would have been you. Of course, you might like to speak with the Iranian woman, who actually won in a Sharia Court recently. Her husband nearly shot her face off and when given the choice, she chose the "Eye for an eye" punishment for him, which resulted in acid being poured all over her husband's face.

"Be generous, and charitable, and, oh yes, empathetic?"

All can and are done on a daily basis by the American people, without taxes being levied or government dictation over wealth redistribution.

Btw, you should know that in those socialist countries that you wax poetically about all of the time, charity and volunteerism is nearly a non-existent ... because "that's the state's job."

one day of life

This fiscally-conservative, Constitutionalist without party affiliation asks:

Why don't you sue God for making you an idiot?

Stop victimizing the poor!
Why is it when talking about official policy concerning the poor, conservatives always manage to avoid talking about debt forgiveness and the Jubilee? I think redistributing all rural lands every 50 years constitutes an act of "favoritism" to the poor.

No, justice should not be perverted in order to favor a poor person, but neither should one lie about what the Bible teaches in defense of policies that favor those who are rich and do not want to let go of Mammon.

I'm sorry Republicans, but God is not on your side in this, and perhaps that is the lesson you need to learn before you win any more elections. Victimizing the poor is not a Christian value.

On the nail Denise (12:37)
Rather plain that lilly doesn't understand (nor ever did--actually she never made the minimal effort to) the book of Leviticus.

"Seething young kid in its mother's milk" actually meant precisely that (a practice actually used by Amalekites and some of the Caananites), not the overbroad meaning of not mixing meat and dairy products--as evidenced by Abraham's preparation of veal-korma for his Guest(s) in Genesis 19.

Activist judges are a threat
Religous trappings aside, Medved is correct on his basic point that the Left often confuses charity and justice. All this blathering about "fairness" is nonsense; the only place it can logically take you is to Equality of Outcomes which is not feasible or desireable.

Justice is supposed to be blind for a reason, and Activist Judges are the farthest thing from "blind". The usurping of the legislative function by individuals who are neither elected nor accountable for their decisions, threatens our democracy.

Stay on point - no need to slam poor
Thanks, JohnR22. That's just what conservatives need -- another gold vein for quote miners looking for insensitive conservatives to publicise.

"...all this blather about 'fairness'..."

Beautiful. There's a slogan to hang an election with.

Aren't we all against activist judges as "conservatives"? Is it necessary to make an active point out of trouncing on the poor to further the goal of selling constructionist judges?

Using the Bible to slam the poor is like using biological weapons to deal with the Swine flu -- it's just not the sort of thing the Bible was designed to do.

One More Lilly

"Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself."

Leviticus 19:18


If you want to talk Leviticus, lilly, then stop seeking revenge and bearing a grudge against those with whom you disagree or those that are wealthier than you.

ShaneRoach
You misquoted him.

It is not moral or ethical
for one group of people to live off another group of people. Paul said,"You don't work, You don't eat." Some mistakenly believe that if they work for someone they are being oppressed by them. The owner of a business is not an oppressor. Who came up with this silly ideology. Socialism is based on covetousness and stealing. Anyway you look at it the Bible touches on every subject affecting mankind. And can be used to gain wisdom.

Phylo non humilis
"And why do the majority of Republicans seem to ignore Jesus when he warned that a wealthy man entering the kingdom of heaven is as difficult as a camel passing through the eye of a needle? What twisted logic do they employ to get around that one?

Can any of you help me understand that?"

Simple. The answer is given by Jesus, "with God all things are possible".

{ And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. “Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?” And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”} (Matthew 19:23-26 NASB)

{For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.}(Ephesians 2:8,9 NASB)

Earthly riches may breed pride and arrogance, making it more difficult for the rich man to get on his knees before God and beg for mercy.

Joycey
What, left out the "ing"? Is there a context I missed that makes this phrase more acceptable? You have a point here somewhere I am not quite catching?

The point is that making a goal out of further alienating the working class in America guarantees us many more years of liberal dominance.

ShaneRoach
The Jubilee was connected to the land. The Jews recieved their land that was promised to them by God. As a permanent blessing. The blessings were attached to the land. They could not permanently loose their land. We cannot loose our salvation in Christ. And let's not forget about the kinsman redeemer. The Jubilee foreshadowed the Christ's Second Coming. If you look carefully debt was involved they did not recieve back the land until their debt was paid in full. The closer to Jubilee the debt was aquired the higher the price.

ShaneRoach
We are the working class.

ShaneRoach
He was not talking about the poor. You turned it ito that.

A person should see that equality of outcomes is foolishess. That was his statement.

A Letter to the Illiterate
I suppose if someone quoted the sixth commandment against murder, there would be no shortage of people who would try to undermine the whole idea by being more than thick-headed with interpretation than even the most rigid Jew or Christian found on the planet.

And what's with 'one day of life'? First s/he can't understand how anyone could quote Shakespeare and not be taken seriously. Next breath s/he chides Medved for quoting the Bible and getting an audience to listen. I think I smell something rotting in Denmark.

I heard a great point yesterday.
The Good Samaritan had to have money in order to help the man that lay by the side of the road.

IS OBAMA DESTINED FOR GREATNESS?
Is Barack Obama destined to be a transformational president-a blessing to America and world history-or will he end his presidency in failure and catastrophe one of fortune's tragic fools? For the answer click ApolloSpeaks.

GLENN BECK and RUSH LIMBAUGH CHARITY
again today, these two conservative radio host bestowed charity on drones and their media outlets... this is sick!!! the drones talk about the host, which makes the host feel important and in turn the host talks abot being mentioned by the drones..these hosts are wasting conservatves time. stop it now! call your favorite hosts and tell them to stop it!!!

New Respect for Michael
I have listened to Michael Medved for a few years now and have enjoyed his commentary. But this article delivers reason to have new found respect for Michael. The whole concept of separating charity for Justice is part of God's plan for us as individuals. I have always called it "Free Will"...Our individual decisions of charity and goodness in general are what gives glory to God not "Forced Charity". Besides, a larger umbrella of Federal taxes increases the chance that our individual "Forced Charity" will be going to services that are viewed as flat out wrong. I would never give my money to Planned Parenthood or a drug dealing welfare recipient for instance, but I am forced to support it. $349.6 million of Planned Parenthoods funding fo fiscal year 207-2008 comes from government grants and contracts. I guess that is charity.

misses the idea
In a time when our (America) justice system favors the rich..Obama was not saying to favor the poor moreso than anyone else. What Michael misses again and again is that in the scripture, it is that we should not favor either rich nor poor...but Michael chooses to scrap the rest and assumes that the US judicial system was on a righteous path to begin with...One can't ignore the judicial system's favoring the rich; whether it's high-powerd attorneys receiving millions of dollars in retainers or political lobbying to the point of "buying" judicial seats through campaign contributions...

I can't decipher if it's through rose-colored glasses in which Medved sees this or just his own stubborn, contrarianistic approach which seems to dominate almost all of his arguments. Probably the latter.

Georgetwin
"How is that War on Poverty that Liberals declared 40 YEARS AGO going?"

Actually it went pretty well. The poverty rate for families went from 18.1% in 1960, to 10% by 1968, to 8.8% by 1973. It popped up 12.3% in 1993, but dropped back to 9.8% by 2007.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/histpov/histpovtb.ht ml

Phylo & Kristin

Phylo:

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24)

Read the verse very slowly and stop on the 3rd word ... easier, does not mean impossible.

"Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the Earth."



To understand why the humble get ahead and why the meek shall inherit the earth, we need to be sure that we understand what humility and meekness really are.



Humility does not mean looking down on oneself or thinking ill of oneself. It really means not thinking of oneself very much at all.



The humble are free to forget themselves because they are secure. They accept the fact that, as creatures, they are small, vulnerable, and not ultimately in control. But they know there is a Creator who is great, omnipotent, and totally in control. And they know that they’ve been made in the image and likeness of that Creator. That makes gives them a dignity that they don’t have to earn and can never be taken away. Though they’ve tarnished the divine likeness through sin, they know that the Creator came down from the heights of heaven to become human and fix what they couldn’t fix.


Kristin, as an attorney of many years, I direct you to the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.

Lastly, there are reasons that "justice is blind" and the Rule of Law has been the only barometer that a judge needs; unless, you want to repeal the 14th Amendment and reimpose a "separate, but equal" theory of law and create two distinct classes of people before the Court.


Georgetwin fellowMDer
No problem. Glad to oblige!

What's my letter grade for the quiz? You know how Barry is all about education and stuff.

To Phylo:
I would like to reply to a couple of your posts regarding Christianity, of which you know and understand very little.

"Meek" does not mean weak or namby-pamby. It means "power under control." Though Jesus had the power of God at His disposal, he did not use it selfishly. He was indeed the best example of being meek and humble the world has ever seen.

As far as the parable of it being easier for a rich man to enter the eye of a needle than to get into heaven, you have to udnerstand the culture of the time. "The eye of a needle" referred to a place where the road became extremely narrow and thus difficult to pass through. A rich man would have trouble entering heaven because he tends to rely on his wealth to buy anything he needs. Only a man willing to give away all his wealth (as in the rich young ruler that Jesus admonished)and put his trust ONLY in Christ will be able to enter heaven.

Also, if you will read the Old testament, God required ALL the Jews to give a tithe - 10% - of everything to God. Even the widow gave a mite, though she had almost nothing, and God honored that. We show are not very committed to anything unless we are willing to give part of our income to it.

Denise
Hate Crimes Legislation.

Doesn't Matter
It matters not that this is discussed in the bible. It's about votes. Plain and simple. And now that 'we the people' have figured out that Presidents will give us 'free' stuff if we vote for him, we will continue to do so. 'We the people' will eventually vote ourselves into poverty.

Denise
The “Camel through the Eye of a Needle” Analogy referred to a small gate shaped like the eye of a needle. After dark, walled cities WOULD NOT open the Main Gates as bandits dressed as merchants used it as a ruse to gain entry. So late travelers had to get the camel to crawl through the “eye of a needle” on its knees as the small gate was EASY to defend. So it was done regularly as was a rich man entering heaven. BUT they get in like EVERYONE else does. On merit, NOT because they are rich.

LC
A+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Leviticus
I stopped reading at the mention of leviticus. I shave often and enjoy scallops. Using the bible's logic I should be put to death. Stop picking and choosing your passages based on how it suits your opinion.

Georgetwin & Joycey

GT: Yes, I know the story about the camel and the eye. Those, who do not understand the Bible, latch on to and twist verses to support their contention that the "evil rich" should give every penny to support Big Government and loafabouts.

Joycey: I know about the Pedophile Protection Act, which also grants protection to cross-dressers.

Ian
Amen brother! (pun intended)

Denise...St. Denis
HAHA...please do not regurgitate your google searches at me...if you would like to make a valid point or argument...please TRY TRY TRY to muster an original coherent thought...

"as an attorney of many years"...you should know better than to state someone else's thoughts as your own..without citing it.
Let me do it for you:
Humility Opens Doors -- Marcellino D'Ambrosio, Ph.D.

http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/209/Hum ility_Opens_Doors____Marcellino_D_Ambrosio__Ph.D..html








The Bible, eh?
I really wish people would stop using the Bible to justify their own words.

If you take what the Bible says and plug into a society, you get the following: promotion of slavery, justification of war, inequalities for women, death to disobedient children, the sick, adulterers, forced marriages, polygamy, regulation of clothing and hairstyles (apparently, you can't even shave or get a haircut), assigns guilt to people with illnesses...need I go on.

I'm not trying to put down the Bible. It can also be a source of hope and faith for a lot of people. But, at the same time, don't try to use it as a crutch for a political perspective.

Joycey
You have this precisely backwards. The sale price of the land lessened the closer to the Jubilee, but the amount of debt forgiven was not changed either for the Jubilee or for the normal seven year cyclical forgiveness of debt.

Leviticus 25:15 is concerning the Jubilee.

Deuteronomy 15 is concerning debt forgiveness.

You are not to withhold a charitable loan even when the year of forgiveness of debts is near.

The Bible simply does not support the idea that we have no societal obligation to the poor no matter how hard you try to twist it around.

Salvation was never about the land, though some may have mistakenly thought so. It was always about Christ. These laws were for justice and social welfare. There is no mistaking this.

I second Jason
I agree with Jason. The bible is meant to be interpreted many different ways. When you use it as a tool and apply those interpretations is where it gets tricky. So to apply it to political statements really is just a moot point...

Camel and the Eye
I personally doubt the value of the interpretation of this verse having to do with going through a small gate. The next verse seems to imply something somewhat more difficult.

When asked to clarify, Jesus said this:

Matt 19:26

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
KJV

This is inconsistent with the idea that all one need do is kneel.

Gov't "compassion" is anything but
All manners of "services" long ago became big business; corrections, mental health, child "protection", education, etc... What we now do more often than not is make bad situations worse because bureaucracies create rigid, closed systems by which the stated goals of a given service are routinely hamstrung. Now most systems serve themselves without much concern over results. In fact, "services" are often offered based upon the needs of the program itself rather than the need of those it is supposed to serve!

We end up needing more "services" to clean up the messes exascerbated by previous "services". We have intevened in so many areas of people's lives that we have created largecommunities of infantilized adult age people who know little about anything other than answering the calls of their own appetites, whatever they may be. We diagnose, deliberate, intevene, chatter, meet, and ultimately subsidize exactly what keeps most social disasters metastasizing. Then the usually woefully inexperiences and ignorant liberal shows up and screams for exactly more of what is most destructive! Its stunning.

Good article
Well said.
There may be some well meaning liberals who genuinely want to help the poor but many seem more interested in punishing those they envy or for personal gain whether monetary or for their image personal or political

The Intricate Understanding of Gods Law
I say that truly understanding Gods law is not about understanding the overly aristocratic verbage so eloquently displayed by Mr Medved.

You see when Jesus stood in front of one person and looked him in the eyes I imagine he looked for one thing. A willingness to believe in him without studious briefings.

Jesus loved those who belived without seeing more than those that had to be convinced by the wise men of the times.

Mr Medved I ask that you stop trying to convince those that would be better served looking inside themselves.

Those who believe in God do not need convincing, they tend to already know.....

The Camel and the Eye
This passage refers to man's tendency to be comfortable in earthly riches and ignore the need for God. This is so true.

The eye of the needle refered to a gate in the city wall that was meant only for humans to pass through- a camel was way too large to go through.

People who want to truly help the poor would do well to understand American poverty. It is different in its root causes for other areas of the world, and most of it value and choice based at this time. It would also be important to understand no system can fix it and generally exascerbates matters.

oddly repeated mistake
so Levitticus opposes favoritism in applying justice. What does it have to say about empathy?

Why do conservatives seem to think there is no difference between favoritism and empathy? Aren't there any conservatives who understand what the word empathy means?

Empathy
Lon says..."Why do conservatives seem to think there is no difference between favoritism and empathy? Aren't there any conservatives who understand what the word empathy means?"

I say Lon is a jackass and understanding ones feelings (empathy) does not mean we have to agree with them. Hmmmm I understand you pain that your son went to prison for rape and murder. I also understand that he deserved the weight of the law.

I do not forgive crime or assinine arguments just because you do not have emathy with me.....




Kristin
The first part of my post was not to you although I did neglect to add the citation.

Getting back to my point that I addressed with you:

We have the Constitution and the Rule of Law for a reason. Empathy and compassion are not traits for the Judiciary Branch, who are the interpreters of the law, that is all. If they find a law to be unconstitutional or vague and ambiguous, they are supposed to overturn it and let the Legislative Branch rewrite it.

Judicial activism occurs when a jurist allows his or her personal feelings or opinions to prompt a decision.

Case in point: What would you do, if you were a judge, in this scenario?

Before you is the State, who is prosecuting a case where a young, white girl was raped and murdered, and as the defendant is an older, minority, who grew up in an abusive home and turned into a monster.

Do you feel empathy for the defendant because of his upbring or do you uphold the law, which is your job?

I know that I would do whether is the scenario that I proposed or if the race was switched.

A crime is a crime. Period.

Humbling, the wisdom of Scripture
I found this to be an incredibly thoughtful column. Sometimes in our modern chauvinism, it is humbling to know that ancient men struggled and understood such concepts thousands of years ago. While surrounded by all our modern lifestyles and goodies, we really are no differt than the men and women who walked the earth hundreds of generations ago. We certainly are no better than they.

Interesting
"While surrounded by all our modern lifestyles and goodies, we really are no differt than the men and women who walked the earth hundreds of generations ago. We certainly are no better than they."

Good point...give an animal a suite and a porshe...it is still an animal.

You miss who is responsible

ShaneRoach writes:

The Bible simply does not support the idea that we have no societal obligation to the poor no matter how hard you try to twist it around.

Salvation was never about the land, though some may have mistakenly thought so. It was always about Christ. These laws were for justice and social welfare. There is no mistaking this.
======================

Its true there are social responsibilites the bible speaks of in both Old and New Testament.

What you are missing is who it is directed to.
It is not directed to a country, a political party or a government.

It is directed to the individual person.

This is where such as the "liberals" who try and use the scriptures miss it 100 percent.

When we all stand before the judgment seat of God, it is not as a nation or political party.

We will stand to be judged as individuals.

Think out of the box.
Course all did in America before FDR and Lyndon Johnson came up with their boxed socialism

none
You may not be aware of this, but the original language Leviticus was given in was hivrit, not the king's english.

Talent Scout
The dreadful nature of this sort of communication is that what someone is truly trying to say generally gets lost in the spam and the breaking up of their posts.

I am not a socialist. I will never, ever vote Democratic until and unless they do a full 180 concerning government ownership of large swaths of the economy, issues of judicial activism, and general support for moral depravity.

What I am trying to reach out and explain to Conservatives is this -- you are losing the American people because you never seem to miss an opportunity to denigrate the working class and the poor concerning their work and income levels.

Using the Bible to try to do so just makes it all the more tragic. You alienate a big part of your base, plus the middle, to perform the kowtow for a group of people that simply cannot win elections for you. There simply are not enough rich people to pull it off.

That's why they're called 'rich'.

phylo
Yes I know that you despise God and righteousness, nonetheless please note that following the understanding of a scripture concerning justice is not the same as following a scripture relating a command to a people who had a covenant with God. Justice such as spoken of here in not showing favoritism in any way is a constant. God's covenant with Israel is a variable, and not applicable in all governments.

Yes sir
ShaneRoach writes:
Talent Scout
The dreadful nature of this sort of communication is that what someone is truly trying to say generally gets lost in the spam and the breaking up of their posts
======================
Exactly right.
Forgive me if I stated my point as if I thought you were a socialist.

Not knowing your politics I didn't mean to come across that way.

Like you say above though, this is a tough place to communicate an idea.

Everyday people who are making a certain point have someone read theior post and go off on some tangent over a single word used in explaining that posters point.

Makes me laugh sometimes, and makes me angry other times.

So at least its a fun way to try and communicate.

Anyone who respects the Bible and its wisdom is ok with me

shaneroach and others(if it applies
Please remember that the "societal obligations" that God gave to Israel such as not withholding a loan were part and parcel of His covenant with Israel. We have no such covenant here in our government so it is an error to try and apply such a command. We also do not have people becoming the slaves of others when they have become unable to provide for themselves. Though on a strictly voluntary basis some sort of work farm rather than prison would be a good idea for ,say, fathers who don't provide for their kids.

It has been said:
"The bible is meant to be interpreted many different ways."

No, this is how it is to be interpreted.

St. Paul said:
(Galatians 5:14) "For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
(Romans 13:8-10)Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."

Jesus said:
(Mark 12:31) "..you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.(ref. Deuteronomy 6:5) The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these (ref.Leviticus, 19:18) ."

(Mark 12:32,33) The scribe said to Him, "Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM;
AND TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE ONE'S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."



New American Standard Bible (©1995)



Red,White & Blue - SPOT ON
The remarks made by Red,White & Blue are perfect. What more needs to be said............

What is interesting about this thread
Is the number of posters who cannot discuss anything rationally without quoting the bible.

Keep it up, folks. You are only contributing to the ongoing Democratic success.

Denise, you are the greatest gift to liberals since Camus. Keep going, post every hour, every day, it makes for great meme.

Jason said
"I really wish people would stop using the Bible to justify their own words."

I think they should keep on doing it, all the time. For every 400 people who post, there are 400 different interpretations.

To all conservatives: Keep going, it will make American voters take you seriously.

Sol said, about the bible
"No, this is how it is to be interpreted."

point taken.

one day of life
Denise, you are the greatest gift to liberals since Camus. Keep going, post every hour, every day, it makes for great meme.


Listen up, you f*cking moron! I am a fiscally-conservative, CONSTITUTIONALIST without party affiliation. I live in the French Quarter and have friends of all races and sexual orientation. And, I have the most elite education from the best universities in this country and in London. Finally, I don't have to worry about how often that I post because I make money even when I am sleeping.

Bet that you stayed behind leading up to Katrina because you were awaiting your welfare check. Get out of Louisiana. You piece of crap.

Because of the Bible?
"How do we know it’s a disastrous error...? Because the Bible specifically warns us against it."

Right. Because whenever you're writing laws for the 21st Century, you should depend entirely on the wisdom of pre-literate sheepherders who thought all animal species lived within walking distance of Noah's house.

Marion Barry: It'll Cause A Civil War


I thought that y'all might like to see this on Marion Barry, who voted against recognizing Gay Marriage in the District of Columbia (yeah, it is crack pipe, Marion The Moron):

D.C. Council member Marion Barry (D-Ward 8), the only council member to vote against the bill today to legalize same-sex marriages performed elsewhere, predicted today there could be a “civil war” in the District if the Council decides to take up a broader gay marriage bill later this year.

“All hell is going to break lose,” Barry said while speaking to reporters. “We may have a civil war. The black community is just adamantly against this.”…

Although he has been a longtime supporter of gay rights, Barry said he voted against the bill to satisfy his constituents in Southeast Washington.

“What you’ve got to understand is 98 percent of my constituents are black and we don’t have but a handful of openly gay residents,” Barry said. “Secondly, at least 70 percent of those who express themselves to me about this are opposed to anything dealing with this issue. The ministers think it is a sin, and I have to be sensitive to that.”



What's up with that? Has DC become a hot-bed for radicalized, Conservative, right-wing extremists?

replying to Matt
Matt sounds a little bitter. What's up with that? I thought that was reserved for conservatives. My own personal opinion is that something things are timeless. Justice, by definition, can't be tilted to favor one group over another (impartiality is a key component to its meaning). Why does that statute in front of the court house wear a blindfold?

General equity…

Mr. Medved, this is one of the better articles I have seen from you. The law you reference from Leviticus is what the New Covenant preachers refer to as the Mosaic judicial law given to the Jewish nation/church. And from the principles of general equity the wise nations of the earth will now apply what is good about the law to their civil law as was done at the founding of America.

The great error of Obama’s view is that he is forcing on the state what is applicable to the Kingdom of Heaven. In this respect he is the new theocrat; he would see the kingdom come through his social justice policies.

Matt
OK, so God is wrong. Make sure you let Him know that when you leave us. Wish I could be there at your trial.

The Bible is meant to be interpreted
many different ways.

Hmmm.... how many different ways are their to interpret "You shall love your neighbor as yourself..."

Is the Constitution meant to be interpreted many different ways? This document states what rights the government may restrict and how they may restrict them. So on Wednesday I know I have the right to petition the Government for redress of grievances. But the constitution is a "living document" whose meaning changes with the interpretation of twelve old men, several of whom are arguably senile. So on Thursday, when I petition the Government, I end up in jail.


Al Gore predicts Holland will flood
Noah's Ark ready for floods in Holland

Huibers built the replica of Noah's Ark with cedar and pine using modern tools after a premonition of his homeland flooding.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-451746/Noahs-Ark-re ady-floods-Holland.html

Environmental campaigner Al Gore predicts low-lying Holland will flood in future due to global warming.

The ark will sail to cities in Netherlands, Germany and Belgium in the next couple of months carrying live and stuffed animals, as well as religious information.

Timeless wisdom
Mr. Medved you are a good example of what a meek man is. I appreciate your mild temperament and consistency.
So another way of summarizing this concept of justice and mercy is that for all of his ivy- league education, President Obama doesn't understand jack about ethics and morality- the highest of cognitive function.
For some reason the term "justice" seems to denote harshness for a lot of people. Do we not end the Pledge of Allegiance with "liberty and justice for all"? Justice denotes fairness, which is tempered by mercy. Obama and Al Gore both seem to think they are inventors- that they've come up with something novel. Instead of building on what's already established though, they're proceeding with a trial and error approach.

You gotta be kidding me.
Leviticus?

You a-holes are pulling a Leviticus?

This is the same chapter from the same fantasy book that says eating a lobster will send you to hell.

Leviticus 11:9-12
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you

11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.


You people are not Christians.
And Mr. Medved, Jesus would be ashamed of you.

New Testament trumps the Old
"Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" (Luke 12:33-34).

"No one of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions" (Luke 14:33)

When Jesus heard this, He said to him, "One thing you still lack; sell all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." (Luke 18:22)

Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." (Matthew 19:21)

/the original prosperity gospel

OUTSTANDING! I COMPLETELY AGREE!
As usual, Michael Medved is 100% correct.

We should look to Leviticus, and base U.S. Law on the teachings & words of Leviticus.

* Slavery should be legal again. But only if the slaves are brought in from a different nation. As Patriots, we can't enslave our fellow Americans.

* Shellfish possession should be a felony.

* Blasphemy should be a capital offense.

* Tattoos should be a illegal.

I love this country, and I love Jesus.
America needs this.

OUTSTANDING ARTICLE
As usual, Michael Medved is 100% correct.

We should look to Leviticus, and base U.S. Law on the teachings & words of Leviticus.

* Slavery should be legal again. But only if the slaves are brought in from a different nation. As Patriots, we can't enslave our fellow Americans.

* Shellfish possession should be a felony.

* Blasphemy should be a capital offense.

* Tattoos should be a illegal.

I love this country, and I love Jesus, and America is a Christian Nation.

Of course we should listen to Leviticus!
And while we're at it, let's declare ourselves a Theocracy and start stoning adulterers, gays, and blasphemers again.

Just like they do in Saudia Arabia, Iran, and Taliban ruled Afghanistan.


As usual...
the anti-bible zealots are out full force with their "if we look to Leviticus for authority we have to enforce it all" nonsense. They are missing the point. Medved is not trying argue that we should run the nation as a theocracy. He is arguing against those who would make biblical arguments for their particular type of "justice" but overlook the whole advice of the Bible. Biblical teaching on justice is clear: all are to be treated equally in the eyes of the law. No one doubts that the Bible teaches charity as a virtue, but it teaches it as an individual virtue - not an obligation of the community. "Charity" taken at gunpoint is not charity at all - it is no less than the usurpation of the victim's unalienable Jeffersonian rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

(comment continued below to meet length restrictions...)

As usual... (continued)
(Continued from above)

I am not opposed to taxation. It is clearly right for things such as defense and infrastructure; entitlement programs are another matter. I also don't go to the extreme that Medved does regarding progressive income taxation, since his argument overlooks the critical idea of utility theory. (Briefly, this concept assumes that not all dollars are equal in a person's wealth, and that a law of diminishing returns applies in the relationship between wealth and happiness. Thus, $1,000 to people who make only $10,000 per year means a lot more to their happiness than $100,000 means to someone who makes $1,000,000 per year. This is simple common sense, and it's why the so-called "Fair Tax" isn't fair. Taxation should be based on the estimated utility value of money, not on straight money, since this is a better estimate of its value to people.) Some progressiveness in tax rates is OK. However, it's hard to see how a federal marginal tax rate of 39.6% on top of state tax rates of up to 8% or so plus sales tax of up to 8% or so plus Part A tax of 2.9% plus property taxes (yes, renters pay them too) of as much as 5% of income - which puts us at 63.5% so far and we haven't mentioned gasoline and other excise taxes - seem reasonable in combination.

In the end, the point is this: courts must enforce the laws and constitutions as they are written, and must use established precedent and impartial judgement to fill in the gaps. In a civil proceeding, there is no room for empathy with one party or the other at all. In a criminal one, it would be limited to our dispassionate view of mitigating circumstances in the offender's background when considering sentencing. Indeed, for how long was racial injustice rampant in this nation's courts? To swing the pendulum the other way would be just as wrong.

Mmmmkay.
The Bible is a book of Fairy Tales.

Using the words written thousands of years ago by flawed men in order to make an argument in 2009 A.D. is small-minded at best, dangerous at worst.


Airtime @ 12:34 pm EST:
Doesn’t the argument of “utility theory” only work when taxation is restricted for defense and infrastructure purposes? I don’t see the utility theory working when progressively higher amounts of money are taken away from proven successful investors/entrepreneurs to be redistributed to the indolent, irresponsible or proven unsuccessful investors/entrepreneurs. In this case we seem to have the utility theory working against itself.

Justice vs. Fairness
As someone wiser than I once said, "fairness" is a kindergarten schoolyard recess concept borne of envy. Justice is considering every person on equal terms, and deciding the merits of a controversy accordingly. I love Medved's biblical allusions.

Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice
Allow me to recommend Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice - you can take the easy route and watch Robert DeNiro's film version of a few years ago. The story is often labeled anti-semitic but it's actually about Jewish Law (Old Testament) versus Christian Mercy (New Testament), when Shylock demands his literal "pound of flesh" when a young debtor can't pay back his loan shark loan. The court trial seeks to show that Mercy should prevail over Law, because No One is capable of fulfilling ALL the law's requirements.

Moles on www.townhall.com, Censor Speech
Part (1/2)
Subject: Moles on http://WWW.townhall.com, Censor Christian Conservative Thought
“Dear Christian Conservative,
I am writing this email in order to inform you that we are reaching a dangerous phase in the struggle against the immoral forces in society where dissent from atheistic morality is resulting in personal attacks and attempts to stifle freedom of speech.
You have made comments that immediately followed my comments to several Evolution articles on http://www.townhall.com. Therefore, I know that you have read some of my extensive comments that have refuted the comments made by the pro-evolutionists. In fact, you praised my efforts on the comment thread of one of the articles.
I have evidence that someone is purposely preventing me from logging in to that web site in order to make comments (I can access the site and read the articles.). Also, my comments on the Evolution related articles have been deleted, but the responses to my comments by pro-evolutionists and other comments that reference my comments are still retained. I have been unable to log in to http://www.townhall.com for about six weeks. I have informed them by emails and land mailings about the problem of logging in, but they do not even acknowledge my mailings.
I suspect someone of influence has conspired with a person who has access to the log-in programming in order to prevent me from logging in. I recently had a debate on a Dinesh D’Souza and Olasky article with Christopher Hitchens (I assume it was the real author, because he tried to refute me with a series of comments after I caught him using false logic and misunderstanding chaos as it relates to physics.); so I suspect him as the cause of my problem.
I have commented on several other issues on that site relating to abortion, homosexuality, atheism, and same-sex marriage. So, there are several other possibilities were I could have made enemies of vengeful people.”
Cont'd >>>> (2/2)

Moles on www.townhall.com, Censor Speech
(2/2)
(This is the first Comment that I was able to post in about six weeks. I suspect that a person of influence conspired with a mole who had access to the townhall log-in program in order to prevent me from logging in to post comments. This is not Joe from KY; this is Fabius Cunctator.)
(2/2)

liberalism confusion of charity and just
Michael you are right on the money. God knew that the poor would be exploited for power and not the reasons the poor are poor. It is gov'ts that bind up free men to what they perceive as injustice. It all points to power grabbers using alms as a way to bring personal gratification and awarness and empathy for their no good, self gratifcation causes to hold many in the grip of nothing but lies, deceit and so called well meaning programs that are slow for the public to grab hold and catch on too. Thanks.

3000 years....
It never ceases to amaze me how the advice of a nameless, faceless man who lived in the desert 3000 to 4000 years ago is used by modern beings as ageless wisdom worthy of consideration. What some rabbi said or did long ago is about as relevant as taking seriously a prohibition on eating shellfish. If all Medved has to offer is Leviticus, then your side is truly the side of conservatism. What can be more conservative than 4000 year old wisdom?
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