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Wednesday, May 07, 2008
Michael Medved :: Townhall.com Columnist
Another Campaign Surprise: No Collapse Of The Two-Party System
by Michael Medved
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Concerning the imminent collapse of the two party system, it’s appropriate to paraphrase Mark Twain: reports of its demise have been greatly exaggerated.

The campaign of 2008 has already obliterated the comfortable and conventional assumptions on a number of fronts, demonstrating that money can’t determine primary outcomes (otherwise the GOP would be preparing to nominate Mitt Romney), that race and gender don’t push voters to side with their own (or Clinton wouldn’t enjoy her big support from blue-collar males, and Obama wouldn’t sweep Idaho, Utah and North Dakota), that immigration wouldn’t emerge as a dominant issue (you’ll notice that no candidate is talking about it), or that the front-loaded calendar would produce nominees by Super Tuesday at the latest (it’s three-and-a-half months later and Clinton and Obama are still going at it).

Another piece of conventional wisdom that deserves proper burial involves the alleged rejection of the two major parties by growing legions of Americans, and the eagerly expected emergence of a dynamic new third party to fill the void.

Lou Dobbs, CNN’s reigning prince of pomposity, went so far as to predict that voters in November would reject both Republicans and Democrats and choose instead “an independent populist.” In a column from last November, he declared that “independent Americans will demand a far better choice than any of the candidates now seeking their party’s nomination. I believe next November’s surprise will be the election of a man or woman of great character, vision and accomplishment, a candidate who has not yet entered the race.”

In fact, Mr. Dobbs went so far as to advance this idea in his bestselling book, “Independents Day: Awakening the American Spirit,” complete with chapter headings like “Two Parties, No Choice” and the proclamation that independents, not Republicans or Democrats, had become the dominant force in U.S. politics.

Meanwhile, on the left side of the political spectrum, former Bill Clinton campaign consultant Douglas Schoen, wrote his own book to predict an immediate revolution in our political institutions. His 2008 book, “Declaring Independence: The Beginning of the End of the Two Party System,” opens with a chapter headed: “2008: Why America is Ready for a Third Party Candidate.”

After all of this breathless expectation, and with less than six months to go before the election, there’s little or no prospect of a serious third party effort (if that’s not a contradiction in terms) to challenge the Democrats and Republicans.

After Tuesday’s big win for Barack Obama in the North Carolina Primary, it’s obvious that the Illinois Senator and John McCain will win their respective parties’ nominations and that strong campaigns by both men will leave very little room for fringe appeals.

With Michael Bloomberg and Ron Paul both ruling out minor party runs, the remaining odd-ball candidates stand no chance of generating significant popular support. The list of current and potential contenders has a depressing “round-up-the-usual-suspects” feel to it, with retreads or no-names like Ralph Nader, Cynthia McKinney, Bob Barr, Wayne Allyn Root, Mike Gravel, Chuck Baldwin and even Allen Keyes throwing their clown hats into the third-party circus ring (though Dr. Keyes already suffered the ultimate indignity of losing his bid for the nomination of the Constitution Party—a mighty political juggernaut that drew an imposing 00.2% of the vote last time around).

Despite assertions that voters had lost faith in both major parties, primaries drew huge, enthusiastic turnouts (particularly for the Democrats, it must be admitted) while Republicans attracted new voters and unexpected energy from the surprisingly dynamic campaign by Texas Congressman Ron Paul.

Contrary to the supposition of seething discontent with our political institutions, there’s no indication of mass desertion from the major parties toward apathy (quite the contrary) or to fringe groups. Polls indicate a close race and potential see-saw struggle between McCain and Obama, two figures who both seem to satisfy the famous public yearning for change.

Though Republicans will try to identify the Democratic nominee as an old-fashioned militant leftist in slick new packaging, his rhetoric about unity, his distinctive biography and bi-racial background work together to give Obama an air of freshness that has obviously inspired millions. And while Democrats will attempt to smear the Republican contender as “John McSame” who’s running to give the country a “third term of Bush,” McCain’s feisty maverick image, anti-establishment tone, and well-advertised differences with the current President (particularly over run-away spending, the environment and management of the war) make this year’s Republican ticket look dramatically different from the last five nominees (Bush, Bush, Dole, Bush and Bush).

Both parties, in other words, look like they’ve undergone a makeover, allowing citizens to vote for change without deserting the two-party system. These intra-party alterations help to explain why Lou Dobbs’ promised “Independents Day” never materialized.

Even among young voters, the one group most likely to support radical change in the system, there’s no evidence of surging identification as “independents.” This morning (May 6), USA Today ran an article entitle “Young Voters Poised to Be an Election Force.” It showed a paltry 8% of youthful voters (19-29) who identified as “independents” – a figure absolutely identical to the percentage who saw themselves that way in 2004. While the Gallup Poll that provided the background for the article showed sharply rising support for Democrats (from 50% to 62%) among the young voters, it also indicated that a clear plurality (41%) still saw themselves as “moderate” (compared to 32% liberal and 26% conservative). This prevalence of “moderate” swing voters helps explain why McCain remains competitive even in this millennial age group, despite their disproportionate affiliation as Democrats.

The Harris Poll also shows an historical decline in independent identification. The highest numbers for this preference (31% to 28%) came in the dark years between 178 and 1982. More recent results show less interest in looking past the two major parties, with the answer to “what do you usually consider yourself” yielding less than 24% independents every year since 2000.

Of course, nothing’s certain in love or politics, but there’s scant expectation at this point that a new fringe party candidate will emerge to become a “game changer” (to use Hillary’s phrase) for 2008, or to spark an explosion of independent identification.

Yes, Americans do want change, and hope, and cheaper gas, and fewer casualties among our troops, and lower taxes, and a more wins for the struggling teams in the American League Central Division.

But they also seem to understand that the best way – the only way – to actually alter policies and reform government is to work within, not outside, the two great parties that have served the nation reasonably well for the last 150 years.

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About The Author
Michael Medved's daily syndicated radio talk show reaches one of the largest national audiences every weekday between 3 and 6 PM, Eastern Time. Michael Medved is the author of eleven books, including the bestsellers What Really Happened to the Class of '65?, Hollywood vs. America, Right Turns and, most recently, The Ten Big Lies About America.
 
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Such a shame
If Dr. Ron Paul had decided on a 3rd party run, he would have made a good showing.
Other than that, there are no other candidates who would inspire enough people to make a 3rd party rise up from obscurity.
Too bad.
The Dems and the GOP are both big government parties. Our country deserves better.

bought and sold
Mr Medved misses the point.

The nominees are not "the will of the people". It is that media outlets chose the winners.

McCain was touted and glorified in all of the MSM and received free press and campaign spots. The democrats smartly crossed over and voted in the Republican primaries to get him nominated.

Now that McCain is the nominee for the GOP, the dems have won. McCain is NO conservative and reaches across the aisle to adopt most of the dems policies.

The democrats have won. No matter what, they will get a democrat in office.

McCain may win, but it is not on merit but because the Dems nominated a tinfoil hat, left wing looney.



Not so fast
26% of voters in NC and 21% of voters in IN voted AGAINST Grampy McSame.

With numbers like that, a far right candidate could make a run at McCain.

Can you say 50 state Obama sweep?

Wahooo!

Phylo out.

Whigs & Torries
If you look at the history of the political process in US History, it's apparent that change (within the parties) happens, and needs to be embraced occasionally.

An example: Name a Kennedy Democrat (not Ted, JFK). The true Democrat party doesn't exist anymore.

I guess my problem with the whole barrel of monkeys is that both sides of the aisle believe in big government (Bush's government grew more than Clinton's!) and both parties are bought and sold by big business.

There's no difference between the parties, and to be honest (thought I'm a lifelong Republican), I'll have a hard time holding my nose and voting for McCain in November. I'll probably vote for the Libertarian candidate in hopes that someone somewhere gets the point that neither of our two parties is worth a bucket of warm spit.

Medved is right ... unfortunately ...
The 2 party system gives Americans a choice between Godless socialism or soulless corporations. One party puts its faith in government, the other, markets. Our Declaration of Independence and Constitution put faith where it belongs: in God and the individual. I left the Democrats in '92 and vote reliably Republican (after voting for Perot), but would never admit to being a Republican. The Republican party sucks ... and Republican politicians are ... well ... politicians. Vote Republican for the ruination of this republic or vote Democrat to ruin this country more efficiently.

Medved is right and wrong
"But they also seem to understand that the best way – the only way – to actually alter policies and reform government is to work within, not outside, the two great parties that have served the nation reasonably well for the last 150 years."

These two parties have NOT served this country well, at least since the early 1900s. These parties have brought us to the precipice of full blown Marxism, and they are not finished destroying our free market model, even though Marxism/socialism/communism has absolutely failed EVERYWHERE is has been tried.

Look at ALL the problems we face as a nation today, and you can lay the blame at the feet of both parties. It will take a third party, if not 2008, then 2012, or 2016 or beyond to start to pull us out of this mess. Why is this such an impossibility? If it doesn't happen, we are sunk.

We had one revolution to bring us our new nation in 1776. Why not another one to restore our constitution? Not necessarily with guns, but the ballot box. The point is, neither the Dems or the Reps are willing or capable of fixing our mess.

Phylo writes:
"Can you say 50 state Obama sweep?"

Whoa! A little early to be that intoxicated, isn't it, Phylo?

You underestimate the Clinton Machine. If Hillary cannot be your nominee this cycle, she's going to want a shot in 2012, and it becomes much more difficult if she has to chase a nomination against a Dem party incumbent.

Nope - she and hubby Bill are going to open their bag of tricks to insure a McCain victory. Rev. Wright was probably just the tip of the ice berg.

Prepare yourself for a Mondale-like defeat for your "man".


GOP=WHIG

The Stupid Party

The RNC wants an amnesty candidate.

Don't vote for one.

Another amnesty will result in Democrat majorities for decades, or until they are supplanted by the La Raza Party, why doesn't the RNC know that? How stupid do you have to be to import voters for the opposition at the same time you alienate your own voters? Nominating any of the amnesty supporters is a losing proposition, we will not support them. If the GOP intends to surrender our sovereignty and abandon the rule of law, they will find in November 2008, that they still have their big money/cheap labor donors, but they do not have voters. GOP-RIP

Be careful what you wish for Phylo ...
"Can you say 50 state Obama sweep?"

A part of me is hoping the election IS a landslide for the Dhimmicrats, because I am sure they will go hog wild during the first 2 years of an Obama Administration. Once the American public gets a taste of what "change" actually means, the door will be open for small-government candidates to retake Congress. Plus, a landslide for the Dhimmicrats is likely to result in a change of leadershup for the GOP, which is desperately needed!

EllisWyatt:
You are partially correct. I think the most likely result of a Dem victory is that the GOP may finally get back to its core values: limited government and free market economics. This may also be just wishful thinking on my part.

America has already gotten a taste of bigger government, and it looks like that is what America wants. We seem to want government to take care of us, solve all our problems, control "big oil", stop global warming, control CEO salaries, save the polar bears, feed us, stop the rain, and on and on.

Even though at no point in world history has government ever been able to accomplish this sort of nirvana, and even though the free market of the US has created the best advances in standard of living, bar none, the ignorant US electorate is still buying into the nonsense that the Dems are peddling.

Marxist policies still wreak havoc across the globe: 30 percent unemployment, substandard health facilities, long lines, worker malaise, inescapable poverty, scarce retail commodities, low food supplies, high energy prices, low energy availability. Yet that is what we want in the US!

We need to prepare ourselves for an end to the magnificent medical quality and availability we enjoy, nice neighborhoods and houses, nice new cars, plentiful jobs (forget 5 percent unemployment), full grocery stores and retail stores, air conditioning, ready heating, positive outlook that is the result of the free and peaceable exchange of goods and services. It is not going to be pretty.

Primus54
Liberal Derangement is running high this morning. Of course, Phylo & King Liberal are loopy without being intoxicated. Here is what will transpire between now and DNC convention/Election Day:

Barack Hussein Muhammad Obama will move to The Right.

McAmnesty McMidget will Move to the Left.

Shrillary Cankleton will employ a Scorched Earth Strategy so that she can run again in 2012.

So true
Even if a potential candidate starts out with a seemingly independent mind, like McCain did, by the time the vetting process is over we end up with a carbon copy nominee who kneels before religious groups and big business. What we would like and need is someone who thinks for him/herself and does right by the majority of us, not the privileged few.

The Republican Party
must be destroyed in order to save it.

No third party or independents?
The two parties have served the nation well for the last 150 years? Only a GOP elite could voice such an opinion.

In fact, the very mess that this nation is in is because the two major parties have been battling for power for the last 60 years, and they have replaced leadership with partisanship. Name any problem the nation faces and demonstrate how the two parties have done anything constructive.

An independent may or may not make it this time around, but the tide has turned. The elites who run this great nation are no longer worthy of respect or votes. Any vote for either party will only result in more big government, less personal freedom, and greater influence for the internationalists who hate America.

Conservatives have awakened to this fact and will not support John McCain this November. The left of course, is happy with the big government direction of the nation, so it is the young people, who own the future, who have to be made aware of the state of affairs.

The natural position of young people is to go for something different, hence their love affair with Obama. After 4 years of that administration, our young people will see the light. There is no future for freedom in either party.

If you want to see how the independent movement is going, please visit my website, JOEOLIVAFORPRESIDENT.ORG. Not only will you see my stance on the issues, but you will find links to at least 10 other independent candidates who are working hard to bring a real choice to the American people.

No third party Medved? You are still stuck in your ivory tower! The end of this 2 party partisan nightmare is in sight, hopefully sooner rather than later. Check out the website. After all, the elites have stolen our inheritance! Isn't it time to reclaim it? Thanks, Joe

Robert
Are you an active duty Captain in the United States Navy?

The mark Twain quote
Is so overdone. I hear it about once a day lately. Get an original idea, people!! Yeds, mark Twain was brilliant and witty! Quoting the same stock quotes of his ad nauseum is NOT.

Tried of the question
Primus54 writes: Wednesday, May, 07, 2008 11:23 AM
Robert
Are you an active duty Captain in the United States Navy?
...

Yes

Robert

We R desperate for a Ross Perot

We need a REAL 3rd party candidate
Not proven losers who are no better than the
choices we already have

WE NEED a JACK WELCH, a Carley Fiorina,
a "PROVEN" successful candidate:

Maybe Romney and Rudy should run on a 3rd party ticket

WE ARE SO DESPERATE

Obama will tax this nation into a 3rd world country

I'd vote for Lou Dobbs, Donald Trump

we do not need proven loser 3rd party candidates:

We need a HERO from the world of success
as a third party.

NONE OF THE ABOVE right now:
Mccain in utter desperation
Hillary

Not a chance I can vote for Obama, incompetent, and a man who will be thrilled to tax this nation into oblivion

NO VENTURE capital, No successful corporation will stay in the USA to be punished.

TEACH the GOP a good lesson ?? OR ???
it is so tempting

HOWEVER, OBAMA will destroy this country and it will be permanent

from taxing this country into oblivion
to gutting the military
to taxing venture capital and success out of the country
and move everyone from work to welfare

Robert, I don't buy it
Robert claims to be a captain in U.S. Navy.

I happen to know the Navy requires that its recruits possess a high school diploma or an equivalence thereof. I believe Robert's illiterate and pitiful rantings on TH betray him.

If I'm mistaken, and Robert's legit., I mourn the decline of our military.

On the plus side, maybe Robbie will carry out his charade to its logical end and actually vote for McCain. McCain's going to need every vote he can muster.

Yep, still two parties...
...both are running liberals.

Such a deal.

Why????
Why do the moderators allow personal attacks on these forums?
They are childish and contribute nothing to the conversation.

There is no two party system
Both parties are owned and controlled by the same bunch.

So this bunch gives you two choices. Do you want to go down under their candidaqte D or their candidate B. It makes no difference to them, and it will make no difference to us in the end either.

I haven't decided who I'll vote for in Nov but whoever it is it will not be the D or the R candidate. If enough do that the D or R will still win, but by a slimmer margin. Wouldn't it be better to have them destroy this country with only a 25% mandate vs a 50%?

If I thought there was a lesser evil in this pony show I might be tempted to hold my nose and vote the lesser evil, and hope for the best. Oops ..... that's what happened last time. I'm not going there this time.

What if they held an election and few voted? The D or R would still win by close to 50% of the votes. Better yet, what if they held an election and many voted, but the D or R won with only 20% of all the votes cast? What kind of mandate would they then have to complete the destruction of this nation? Would they then be more inclinded to listen to the people, or would they still do the bidding of their finaciers?






Money Crowds out Principles
The whole system needs to change to allow a credible third party to enter. The barriers to entry are far too high for any candidate that wants to run under any banner other than Democrat or Republican. Campaign finance laws ensure that potential candidates seek the deep pockets of the GOP or the DNC. I'm sure there are others, but ultimately the whole system is built on money and power, and not principle. The man that stands by his principle has to waive the money and power that comes with sticking with the party.

I don't think a credible third party will emerge. There is no platform that disgruntled democrats and disgruntled republicans share. The only way a third party will emerge is if the Republican or Democrat parties split.

Island and mandates
Island do you really think the candidates care about anything but personal power?

One cannot teach a Narcisstic Elitest anything!


B2slim Right On
Good post - a breath of reality.

Retired Greek
That maybe true, but they deffinately will not learn anything if we don't attempt to teach them. If we don't try we will have no one to blame but ourselves.

So, do you think we should just go ahead and vote for the criminal D or R, and call it good? Put our buckets on sand back on our heads and hope for a better choice after another 4 years of h3ll?

No more Ross Perot's
Third party bids end disastrously for a reason: their candidates are unfit. Ross Perot effectively ensured 8 years of possibly history's worst president. Independent candidates who actually win inflict even greater damage (Jesse "the truther" Ventura).

Elections do not serve revolutionary purposes. Real change is slow and methodical - one victory at a time. Far-right idealogues hoping to derail McCain's campaign in hopes of an inept Obama administration propelling Michael Savage to the presidency in 2012 are either delusional or left-wing plants.

Please folks, if McCain loses, the conservative movement will find itself increasingly conciliatory over the next four years. The 2012 nominee will be Bloomberg or Chafee (yippee). Conservatives need to wise up and abandon their mass suicide plans. Liberal "Mobys" need to think for themselves, for once, and stop blindly following the far-left websites' orders.

Dr. Paul should be commended
Dismissing a Quixotic third-party run shows class on Dr. Paul's part. He made a strong provocative statement in his presidential run and will be remembered for more than simply spoiling an election in the manner of Ross Perot.

Personally, I will not vote for a third-party under any circumstances.

Conservatives need a homeport and must
take over the Republican party once and for all. Democrat-lite politics is like lukewarm oatmeal; the only logical response is to spit it out.
If both parties are similar, then one is unnecessary. The Republicans need to grow a spine or some other tissue and tell us in conservative principles what their doctrinal differences are from the Democrats and why we should vote for their candidates. If they don't commandeer some face time in front of a camera (above the heads of the major media) soon, the train wreck and bloodbath predictions will come to pass.

What we have is an absolute void of leadership on the part of the Republican "establishment/ country clubbers." They need to be broomed to make way for truly conservative principled statesmen who aren't afraid to confront and use bare-knuckle politics to DEFEAT their political adversaries. Calling them "friends" and reaching across the aisle to their ideology has been their undoing and will be the same outcome for John McCain.

Perhaps like being in the minority, having been in that situation for 40 years before the 1994 take-over. They are used to being steamrolled by the Dems and have shown they would rather appease and placate them and their allies in the major media than to get out front and lead in the mold of Ronald Wilson Reagan. They haven’t known what to do with the high ground when they had control of it, and deserve to be beaten for their weakness and ineptitude.

I Want you all to know...
...I haven't posted on TH in awhile.

Yeah, "Reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated."

Sorry animalgirl!

Maximilian
You just don't get it do you? If you continue to vote for the GOP, what incentive is there for them to change their tune? None, obviously. All a vote for them does is strengthen them in their belief that they are invulnerable to the will of the people and can continue their internationalist agenda.

Until the politicians fear the people, we will only get more of the same, you know the Einstein definition of insanity don't you?

The GOP has moved left into what could only be called a 1980's style liberal Democrat. The Dems of course, have gone all the way over to the Euro-Socialist mode.

If you care about the future we are handing off to our kids, you must in good conscience refuse to vote for either party. The old idea that independents cannot win therefore we can't vote independent becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The only way to break out from the mess we have is to disrupt the power structure in Washington, and that is going to take an independent President. By that, I do not mean an elite like Bloomberg or Nader, but someone outside the corrupt world of the politicians, no matter how they label themselves.

Safe bet
The party system offers security to the average voter. While they may hate it for the most part, they know what they hate and what to expect. With a 3rd party they dont know what to expect at all so they stick with their comfort zone.

No true 3rd party can exist unless a major reform is made in the voting system. However the one issue both GOP and DNC can agree on is that they do not want any competition from a 3rd party... so it will never happen... at least not in our lifetime.

max
We have been following that mantra for years on end. Where has it gotten us? We are in worse shape now than ever.

What's that definitions of insanity? Keep doing the same things over again and expecting different results? Well, we've been good little troopers and doing just that. And as true as was predictable the results have always been the same. Your plan is NOT working. It's time for a new plan. If not, the New World Order gurus are going to keep leading us around by that old carrot on the stick B.S. until we are securely locked up in the lion's den.

So, after McCain takes our guns away, our young are killed in a never ending war fought with a military that has their hands tied behind their backs, and we are overrun by illegal criminals, terrorists and welfare recipients, and we have no oil or industry, are we finally going to have to fight another revolution to get our nation back with what?.... sling shots and spit balls?

Or, do you think if we vote for him a miracle will happen and McCain will suddenly morph into someone he isn't. This is someone who has tried to silence us though campaign finance "reform". Wants to fight an never ending war using T-ball rules. He is against us drilling for oil in our own nation. He has bought into the AGW lie, and he wants to throw open our borders to all comers legal or not.

You think it is treason not to vote for him? Just what part of him do you like? The R he sports on his cap? Are you going to vote for him because he claims he is a Republican when he has crossed the isle so often it's no longer an isle? It's his personal expressway. He is a Democrat. TPTB know this and that is why they are promoting him. If you are going to vote for a Democrat quit p*ssy footing around, and stop fooling yourself. Just go out and vote for a Democrat.

The party is over
The Republican party for conservatives no longer exists. They proved that by shoveling McCain out from DOA into the lead. If this is the best they could come up with then this nation is in dire straits, and the Republican Party as a seperate party no longer exists. It's just a sub branch under the Democrat Party. This is what the people that run both parties want. They won. We may as well close up shop. The party is over.

BOTH the Dem and Repub parties are run by the same cabal. The differences are only there to keep the sheeple entertained and distracted.

Those who cry don't vote for the Dem. A vote for anyone other than the R is a spoiler vote for the Dems. Hold your nose and vote for the Repub no matter how bad he is, are only fooling themelves. As long as they continue to do that things will just keep getting worse. They are like the boy that has cried wolf too many times.

Island
Your line of reasoning gave America two of her worst presidents, Woodrow Wilson and Bill Clinton. To repeat this mistake expecting different results more closely conforms to your "definition of insanity".


Island
You claim the GOP is dead. Have you bothered to examine the democrat candidates? I can't believe Obama has a serious chance of becoming the left's candidate. No Republican could recover from so many extreme gaffes.

Stop overexaggerating McCain's flaws. Your posts read similar to the "Moby" posts the far-left websites instruct their minions to write thus undermining McCain's candidacy. The only gun legislation he supports is restrictions from ex-cons (which I strongly favor as a means of extending punishments). I picked him over Romney because of Mitt's hint towards renewing the assault weapons ban. McCain is the only candidate with an immigration reform plan however questionable. No, rounding up millions of people is not a practical plan. Moreover, no other candidate will address the earmark issue which is destroying our Federal budget.

I have a hard time believing that any self respecting conservative would take the RINO nonsense seriously. The clandestine liberals should fess up and engage in some honest debate rather than employing these childish manipulation tactics.

Max
Keep on keeping on. George Bush is joing the ranks of Wilson, Carter, and Clinton. Whoever among the three current candidates that wins this time will go right to the head of the class. That includes McCain, or possibly even Gore if the Dems go that route.

I'm sorry, it is not going to work this time to vote for the lesser of the evils that have been thrown at us. This time there is no lesser evil. The only option we have is to vote against all of the above evils. Non Of The Above. If we don't the quality and quantity of the evils is only going to get worse.

Participate in their joke of elections. Just make sure whoever it is they want to win, wins by a tiny percentage of the votes cast. We are not buying into their slop anymore. It's toxic.


Can't get there from here
It's true no politician can get to be team captian if he/she doesn't play by the New World Order's rule book.

So, do we just give up? If we are going to play by their rules, and put up to bat who they dictate, we the people will never get to first base, much less make a home run, or win an inning. We may as well stay in our dug outs and play waterboy.

You vote the way you see fit, and I'll vote the way I do. We will cancel each other out. O.K.?

We'll do battle another time in another thread. I need to run off for now. Nov is still a long way off.

Bye!

Joe is correct--
It appears to me that the two main political parties have morphed into one liberal sell-out bunch of same-o.

A strong third party that is totally in tune with the true conservatives is much needed now, or I believe that we will see the NAU, amnesty, and the sell-out of the USA in the very near future.

Head in Sand of Wishful Thinking
Mr. Medved is fantasizing when he talks about the two "great" political parties we have to choose from. The powers that be have control of all the strings, and the fact that we may vote for one of the two only choices doesn't mean we are content with them. Maybe not in '08 but hopefully at some point we will have a better alternative.

A risky prediction
Maybe Michael Medved is right that this election will see no serious challenge to what he considers the wonderful, perfect, sacred two--party system. (Actually, given Medved's fanatical GOP partisanship, I think he would advocate a *one* party system, if he thought he could get away with it.) Or maybe Medved is engaging in wishful thinking. It's still pretty early in the process. In any case, the two-party system will have to make do without my vote this time. I'm planning to vote for the Libertarian Party candidate, whoever it is (xcept maybe Mike Gravel).

Even if you consider the two-party system basically valid, I think there is a case for voting Libertarian this time. By nominating McCain and other actions, the Republican Party is throwing libertarians and small-government conservatives under the bus while catering to Bible-thumpers and war hawks. If that's not what you want from the Republican Party, a Libertarian Party vote is one way, perhaps the only way, of sending that message. And as for "wasting your vote", a vote for a candidate you neither like, trust nor agree with on most issues is wasted, especially if-- as I suspect-- that candidate turns out to be a loser anyway.

Perhaps as a McCain booster, Medved should hope I stand by my intent to vote third-party....since right now, if you herded me to the voting booth at gunpoint and demanded I vote for either McCain or Obama, I'd choose Obama. There's plenty wrong with him, but at least he doesn't want to be mired in Iraq for another 100 years. (If you forced me at gunpoint to vote for either McCain or Hillary, I might say, "Go ahead and shoot:-)

Maximilian
The purpose of this board is give conservatives a forum. Your comments make it perfectly clear that you are not one. It is the hope of the GOP that conservatives will support a party that mirrors the same agenda as the Democrats, with a few decidedly minor differences. After all, these candidates have similar policies on the border, defense (with the exception of Iraq), and foreign policy. The Dims want to grow the military and increase spending on health care, McCain wants to grow the military and give the public a $2500 individual tax break and families a $5000 tax break for health care. Both parties have combined to increase federal spending from $1.88 to $3.25 trillion over the last 8 years, have nothing to say about our chronically historically high budget deficits, nor about the start of the tidal wave of that $50 trillion or so in unfunded liabilities for SS, Medicare, Medicaid, and Drugs that started this year as the first of 78 million boomers retire. None want to talk about cutting spending, or paring back this radical increase in the size of government. None want to talk about a dollar whose 40% decline vs the other major currencies is the primary source of the rapid increase in fuel pricing that is plaguing Americans - but not the rest of the world. All support the global warming agenda.

Consider how truly absurd this election is. After months of bashing each other, both Democratic candidates are still generally even or slightly ahead of McCain, even though he has had nothing but a free ride. And McCain, well, he's the maverick. Now presumably you know what a maverick is - right? A maverick is someone who avoids the crowd, and associates with no one in particular. And you want to give him all the power.

And you get on this board and expect conservatives to do what? Cheer? I don't think so.



Blah...
" – the only way – to actually alter policies and reform government is to work within, not outside, the two great parties that have served the nation reasonably well for the last 150 years."

If we only actually had two parties. With have two parties guided by one philosophy - Liberalism. But, it's their culture and therefore they retain the White House and Congress, even when Republicans have both. Legitimate right-wingers need to dominate the culture before they can dominate politically and so your prescription to work within a political party is futile, for now.

Medved Wrong On This One
Generally, I agree with Medved's analysis, but this time I think he is way off the mark. I am a sick to death of the Republican party Republican. The only reason I stay in the party is to have a vote in primary elections because I live in a state with a closed primary. If there was a viable third party that held to what were once the three factions Reagan brought together: small government, strong defense, and traditional social values, I would jump from the Republican party in a heartbeat. From the other posts I read, I am not the only Republican with such sentiments. Whereas I used to give financially to the party, now when the phone rings for a handout I hang up in disgust.

Comments on Immigration
"...that immigration wouldn’t emerge as a dominant issue (you’ll notice that no candidate is talking about it),"

How can any issue emerge as dominant when all of the remaining candidates share the same position and philosophy? If McCain, Obama, and Hillary all agreed that we should send the troops home immediately...Guess what??? Iraq wouldn't be an issue either. Immigration is not an issue in this election not because people don't care, but because we're being offered no choices.

A hard line postion on the invasion of our borders would be a winning position for Republicans. By choosing McCain we have ceded this advantage -- not to mention it is the right position to hold for dozens of other reasons.

Medved
Medved is Pollyanna.

"I also tried to explain to Babbin my view that right now, the Republican Party is controlled by what used to be called the "Rockefeller Wing."

Like David Rockefeller himself, the Rockefeller Wing involves millionaires and billionaires who run multi-national corporations.

Rockefeller Wing Republicans are already beyond borders in their determination to advance their multinational corporations for unbridled profit, whether or not U.S. sovereignty and the middle class are destroyed in the process.

Now, apologists like Medved and Babbin tell us that a North American Union could never happen because we would have to vote to amend the Constitution.

The argument is non-responsive. In Europe, the elite and multi-national corporations who favored creating regional government did so incrementally, creating a fait accompli before anybody got to vote. That's the point." Jerome Corsi


We are likely to do better by building our “house of world order” from the bottom up rather than from the top down… an end run around national sovereignty eroding it piece by piece, is likely to get us to world order faster than the old-fashioned frontal assault. Richard Gardner CFR


We are seriously screwed. Multi-national co. own both parties.





Medved's an idiot
So when 98+% of blacks vote for Obama that does not indicate they are "siding with their own"? Are you effin kidding me? Did Medved actually write that? Just re-read the column and yes he did. Doesn't surprise me coming from Medved though.

It won't surprise me at all if some sort of "disaster" occurs just prior to the November presidential election and Bush cancels it. Bush has put out 2 presidential directives (HSPD 20 and NSPD 51) which gives him the authority to declare a national emergency (and Bush alone can determine what constitutes a nation emergency) and take control of all federal, state, local and tribal governments. These presidential directives also give Bush the power to take over any private business or asset he chooses. All without any congressional approval or oversight. Check out this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3dAnSMzUlo&feature=related

For what it is worth (maybe 2 cents?)
I think that there is a POWERFUL, INEXPENSIVE way to run a candidate in America. The internet.

Would anyone vote for a person whom they had never seen in person? IF S/HE HAD THE RIGHT MESSAGE, maybe.

The hardest part is picking the person that is BEST for the job - not as any favor to anyone, but the BEST.

I will not hold my nose and vote for either democrat/socialist/communist/terrorist running in this race. I will hold to my conservative principles and never waver. And this time vote FOR SOMEONE or simply not vote - for the first time in over 4 decades.

WRH Bill writes:
"(Actually, given Medved's fanatical GOP partisanship, I think he would advocate a *one* party system, if he thought he could get away with it.)"

Why would he bother with that? It is already a *one* party system in practice. No need for him to worry about that.

Whichever party wins, Medved will be just as happy. Trust me.

Medved, supporter of the ruling class
These writers on Townhall are getting really tough to read lately. They are coming across either as total Republican wonks (such as Medved's article), or suggesting we should regulate video games or gambling, which makes them sounds a lot like big government liberals.

The fact is, as many have said here, that there is virtually no difference between the parties anymore. It's Coke vs Pepsi, people. And I would much sooner vote for someone I actually wanted to be president than these incredibly weak candidates that have emerged from the party meat grinders.

President McCain? Are you serious? President Obama? I think McCain will win because of Rev. Wright and the Obama women. They have saddled the candidate with their race-based anti-Americanism that won't fly in the general election.

But to me the choices are the worst I've seen in my 41 years and I would LOVE to see a third party candidate emerge. Sure, Medved, you can rank on the independent candidates and I agree that the choices at this time aren't really choices at all, but any freedom loving conservative (which I thought the writers on Townhall were supposed to be) has to look at the established parties and be disgusted at who they've put up to lead this country, not encouraged by the "huge enthusiastic turnouts".

No collapse of the two party system?
Are you blind or just stupid? The two party system has totally collapsed. We now have a one party system!

Its easier to be a Democrat!
It truly is harder to be a Republican, should I say a conservative, than a Democrat. Talking about appealing to a new generation of voter. However this is exactly what even the beloved Mr. Medved experienced.
Lets look at this:
Quotes/Beliefs
Democrats:
Do what you feel is right; We all need to work together; You should do your part; It takes a village; We are here to help; We need to do more...
Republicans:
You are responsible for yourself; You have personal resposibility; You can have anything you are willing to work for...
It feels good to help others. We just need to be sure they are trying to help themselves first. I never mind helping when I'm not asked. I do when I am told too. Conservatives care by trying teach others. Democrats care by trying to do it for you.-TBG

ONTIME
It is a hope of mine, in Denver, when the JPF's(Jackass Party Folk) meet, it results in a melee of cut lips and broken noses.

Nothing would demonstrate to the American public nor as objectively just how insane and rabid this party has become. Finally a vivid answer would be seen, "WHO THE HELL WANTS THESE GUYS IN CHARGE?"

Maximilian
Great analysis and one that I totally agree with. Also sad that you are accused of not being conservative, simply because you disagree with electing a dem president, as a means to teach the Republican party a lesson. Cutting off your nose to spite your face comes to mind!

People need to calm down and realize that wars are not won in one fell swoop. They are won by advancing your army or agenda one step at a time; one battle at a time. There will be successes, (Reagan), and there will be retreats, (Bush). To surrender now in the face of stiff opposition is to sacrifice the advances that we have made. Foolish to say the least!

I am as much a conservative as anyone on this forum, but I'll be damned if I will let my pride lead me down a fools path by not voting for McCain. Yes, I swore I would never vote for him, if he were the nominee, but the alternative is much more dangerous and will take years to recover from.

Think judges with life-time appointments! If you ignore that one crucial thought and focus only on amnesty, (or other negatives), then repeat after me; McCain will probably give us amnesty, but we are guaranteed amnesty with a dem congress and a dem president, among other highly undesirable things!

So maybe you should focus your bitterness on ways to work within the party instead of destroying the party. I think our message is being heard, but I'll guarantee that the dems will do all that they can to silence it, if they take back the Whitehouse!

You may also wish to think about the game of chess. You may have to retreat in the face of an agressive opponent, but you should be planning your future advances in the process. Much better strategy than taking the board and going home!

Don C
Sgt/USMC
1971-75

There is a Third Party!
The third largest political party is the Constitution Party, and they have a fine candidate (http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=749). It will take a grassroots revolution to bring the required control back to We the People, and no better time than now!

Are We up to the fight?

I just want
my change. Oh, yeah, and send me plenty of hope, too, would you?

Come to think of it, it would really be like, you know, totally awesome if you could through in some really, really, really good peace and harmony and, like, that would really be so cool.

I love my Obama so very, very, very much.

Conservatives need a homeport and must
take over the Republican party once and for all. Democrat-lite politics is like lukewarm oatmeal; the only logical response is to spit it out.

If both parties are similar, then one is unnecessary. Republicans need to grow a spine or some other tissue and tell us in clear, conservative principles what their doctrinal differences are from the Democrats and why we should vote for their candidates. If they don't commandeer some face time in front of a camera (above the heads of the major media) soon, the train wreck and bloodbath predictions will come to pass.

What we have is an absolute void of leadership on the part of the Republican "establishment/ country clubbers." They need to be broomed to make way for truly conservative principled statesmen who aren't afraid to confront and use bare-knuckle politics to DEFEAT their political adversaries. Calling them "friends" and reaching across the aisle to their ideology has been their undoing and will be the same outcome for John McCain.

Perhaps Republicans are more comfortable with being in the minority, having been in that situation for 40 years before their 1994 take-over of Congress. They are used to being steamrolled by the Dems and have shown they would rather appease and placate them and their allies in the dominant media than to get out front and LEAD in the mold of Ronald Wilson Reagan. They haven’t known what to do with the high ground when they had control of it, and deserve to be beaten for their weakness and ineptitude.

MICHELLE OBAMAS RACIST THESIS-READ NOW!
If the Obama campaign didn't consider Michelle Obama’s inner thoughts of this thesis being revealed a liability, then why did she have access to the thesis blocked at the Princeton website until November 8th…a few days AFTER the national Presidential election on November 4th??? BUT thanks to DontVoteObama.com we now have the photocopies of it HERE!

READ IT FOR YOURSELF:

MICHELLE OBAMA THESIS PART !:
http://www.dontvoteobama.net/adobe/michelle%20Obama%20thesi s%20part%201.pdf

MICHELLE OBAMA THESIS PART 2:
http://www.dontvoteobama.net/adobe/michelle%20Obama%20thesi s%20part%202.pdf

MICHELLE OBAMA THESIS PART 3:
http://www.dontvoteobama.net/adobe/michelle%20Obama%20thesi s%20part%203.pdf

MICHELLE OBAMA THESIS PART 4:
http://www.dontvoteobama.net/adobe/michelle%20Obama%20thesi s%20part%204.pdf

Michelle Obama not only separates whites and blacks in society, but she elevates blacks over whites in her world. "There is no doubt in my mind that as a member of the black community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the black community first and foremost". As First Lady, she would have numerous resources to reach this goal. Again, not exactly "first lady" material!

THIS WOMAN IS NOT 1ST LADY MATERIAL !

SOURCE: http://www.dontvoteobama.net/?gclid=CJK4iJ69oZMCFQw1awodpk yUww

PLEASE PASS THIS ON TO A FRIEND!

No collapse without education
And there has been virtually no education of the American masses over the past fifty years in the subjects of history, civics, or economics. If any discernible amount of Americans had any knowledge of those three subjects, our contemporary pusillanimous poltroons of politicians would be, as earlier ones were, tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail, preferably to an exile on The Rat Islands of Alaska. But I do hold dear that idea of an American of great character, vision, and accomplishment. Such an American, like George Washington was, will not actively seek the office, as Washington didn't. That is why I think that the only hope we have is to do a write-in campaign for such a person, who will answer the call of a hundred million write-in votes. And the only such American whom I know with such qualities and the name recognition and widespread admiration is the man whom I will be writing in come November. That man is Colin Powell.

Constitution Party Will Never Be Viable
First, Henry B., I do not have the numbers in front of me, but I do have deep doubts that the Constitution Party has surpassed the Libertarians, or even the Greens. This party will never have any cross-sectional viability, as the first and third of their seven principles make them nothing more than Bible thumping, moralistic retrograde throwbacks on the same level of the Koran spouting kooks with whom we are at war.

The Independent oxymoron
It's always been alluring to posit that an "independent" is somehow above party politics and infighting. The thought of someone who is eclectic and nuanced has been attractive in every election, but it's also the case that they're never viable candidates.

The vast majority of voters are drawn to a candidate with a predictable and consistent platform, one that conforms to the preponderance of values they hold.

Independents are not predictable and so each of them is attractive to various people and others reject them.

So, whether it's the Greens or the Constitution Party, or Libertarians, it's a hodgpodge of views that alienates more people than they attract.

Conservatives won't go gently into the good night, the New Yorker's recent article notwithstanding.

Phil Mella
http://www.clearcommentary.com

Press Release
American Independent Party of California announces new national affiliation

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
Media contact:
Markham Robinson
Parliamentarian
American Independent Party of California
mark@masterplanner.com

Sacramento CA - June 28, 2008

California's American Independent Party, which has a forty-year history in the Golden State, today announced its affiliation nationally with the newly-formed America's Independent Party of Fenton, MI. The Party had previously affiliated on a national basis with the Constitution Party of Lancaster, PA.

The State Central Committee of the American Independent Party voted unanimously in its Friday meeting to make the switch, after which the new 2008 national affiliation was duly filed with the Secretary of State's office in accordance with the requirements of California's Election Code.

State Chairman Edward C. Noonan, on hand in Sacramento for the official filing, stated, "We believe it is time to affiliate with a new party, one that has a will to win. In sixteen years, the Constitution Party has never elected a candidate. America's Independent Party may be the best chance we have of stopping the never-ending advance of socialism."

Friday's move makes the newly-minted America's Independent Party the third largest national political party in the United States based on voter registration.
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