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Wednesday, October 24, 2007
Michael Medved :: Townhall.com Columnist
How government expansion worsens hard times
by Michael Medved
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For those Americans who know anything at all about the history of the Great Depression and the New Deal, the story line seems simple, dramatic, inspiring and familiar:

Capitalists and speculators went wild with greed in “The Roaring Twenties,” leading to a stock market crash and hard times. Banks closed, once prosperous workers sold apples on street-corners or became hobos in shanty-towns, while the Republican President Herbert Hoover did nothing for the destitute and suffering nation. Then FDR arrived on the scene, inspiring new hope with his golden words (“the only thing we have to fear is fear itself”) and a flurry of radical reform in his first hundred days in office. While conservatives squealed, this “new deal for the American people” improved the lives of everyone and got the economy humming again – just in time to face the challenges of World War II. No wonder a grateful nation rewarded Franklin Roosevelt with an unprecedented four terms – and a consistent ranking as one of our three greatest presidents (along with Washington and Lincoln).

Like most other Americans of my generation, I learned this story from my parents and grandparents, not just from history teachers in school. My grandparents on my father’s side, immigrants from Ukraine, became naturalized citizens in part to vote for Roosevelt: in their tiny home in a gritty neighborhood of South Philadelphia, they always kept a heroic black-and-sepia portrait of FDR over the mantelpiece, encased in a dime-store brass frame with a cracked pane of glass. My grandfather was a barrel-maker who managed to keep working throughout the Depression, so he never benefited personally from New Deal programs, but he revered the 32nd President for his general support for “the little guy.” My father recalled April 12, 1945, the day of Roosevelt’s sudden and shocking death from a cerebral hemorrhage, as one of the darkest occasions of his life: along with many other sailors at his base in San Francisco, he wept uncontrollably.

Unfortunately, the nearly universal canonization of Franklin Roosevelt has helped all succeeding generations learn false lessons about the right way to deal with hard times and poverty. These assumptions continue to shape political debate, especially at moments like the present day when some three-quarters of the people (according to recent polls) feel convinced that the economy’s in recession or headed in that direction. Democrats in particular love to invoke the Depression and summon the noble ghost of FDR: some 40 years after his death, Barbra Streisand thrilled a party fundraiser with her heart-wrenching rendition of Roosevelt’s campaign song, “Happy Days are Here Again,” which suggested that in the right hands, enlightened government could stop suffering and uplift the downtrodden. In the same spirit, in 1992, Bill Clinton declared that the first President Bush had left the nation with “the worst economy since the Great Depression” and in his First Inaugural Address suggested that even in the midst of January’s chill he meant to “force the spring.” In 2004, numerous Democratic candidates (Howard Dean, Dick Gephardt, John Kerry) made similar analogies between the presumed economic wreckage left by George W. Bush and the dark days of 1932, and we’ll undoubtedly hear similar alarmist rhetoric in 2008. In response to the presumed economic disasters and hardships which they always discern, liberals instinctively invoke FDR’s stirring words from his First Inaugural: “This nation asks for action, and action now.”

According to the conventional wisdom, Roosevelt proved that such governmental action – bold, aggressive, experimental, and sweeping – restored vigor to the economy and improved the lives of the suffering masses.

Unfortunately, such assumptions rest upon a foundation of myths, distortions, half-truths and outright lies. The truths about the New Deal, and all other notable attempts in the course of American history to use the power of the federal government to rescue the poor over the course of 230 years of American history, show the same disturbing results: higher tax burdens and a corresponding loss of liberty, with little gain (and sometimes serious damage) for the intended beneficiaries of bureaucratic largesse.

An understanding of this destructive and increasingly dangerous pattern in our politics must begin with an examination of the pernicious legend of Franklin Roosevelt as America’s savior.

1. THE NEW DEAL NEVER BROUGHT RECOVERY – IN FACT, IT PROLONGED THE DEPRESSION

In 1931, in some of the darkest days of the great depression and the middle of the Hoover administration, the national unemployment rate stood at 17.4%. Seven years later, after more than five years of FDR and literally hundreds of wildly ambitious new government programs, after more than doubling federal spending, the national unemployment rate stood at --- 17.4%! As economist Jim Powell, author of the devastating book “FDR’s Folly” points out: “From 1934 to 1940, the median annual unemployment rate was 17.2%. At no point during the 1930’s did unemployment go below 14%. Even in 1941, amidst the military buildup for World War II, 9.9% of American workers were unemployed. Living standards remained depressed until after the war.”

In his celebrated Inaugural Address of March 4, 1933, FDR unequivocally declared: “Our greatest primary task is to put people to work. This is no unsolvable problem if we face it wisely and courageously.” For the President and his economic planners, the task of putting people to work did remain an unsolvable problem –until world conflict led to sixteen million Americans leaving the work force for the military, and others finding new jobs in humming defense plants. Considering Roosevelt’s self-proclaimed priorities, the persistence of devastating unemployment rates (in an era when the typical family relied on only one wage earner and women for the most part remained uninvolved in the work force) should alone identify the New Deal as a wretched, ill-conceived failure. Other measures of recovery show similarly dismal results. After the stock market crash and the beginning of the Great Depression, the Dow Jones Industrial Average hit 250 in 1930 under Hoover (it had been 343 just before the crash). By January, 1940 the market had collapsed to 151 (remaining in the low 100’s through most of Roosevelt’s terms) and didn’t return to its 1929 levels until the 1950’s. At the same time, federal spending as a percentage of the Gross Domestic Product soared at an unprecedented rate: from 2.5% in 1929, to 9% in 1936 (long before the wartime spending began). In other words, the portion of the total economy controlled by Washington increased by a staggering 360% in the course of just seven years – without providing discernable benefit to the economy.

Such statistics look so disturbing, so incontrovertible, that they raise serious questions about the survival of the New-Deal-Fixed-the-Depression myth. How could reputable historians pretend that the vast expansion of government power between 1933 and 1941 somehow brought the nation out its persistent, nightmarish hard times?

Out of curiosity, I took from my shelf the college history textbook assigned to me at Yale in 1968. The relevant chapters had been written by Arthur Schlesinger Jr., the most acclaimed and authoritative of all New Deal historians. To my surprise, not even this fervent liberal and stalwart admirer of FDR attempted to pretend that his hero’s policies had solved the Depression. In “The National Experience,” published in 1963 (just 18 years after FDR’s death), Schlesinger wrote: “Though the policies of the Hundred Days had ended despair, they had not produced recovery…The New Deal had done remarkable things, especially in social reform, but the formula for full recovery evidently still eluded it.” He also wrote honestly about the devastating crash of 1937 – in the midst of “the Second New Deal” and Roosevelt’s second term. “The collapse in the months after September 1937 was actually more severe than it had been in the first nine months of the depression (or, indeed, than in any other period in American history for which statistics are available). National income fell 13 per cent, payrolls 35 per cent, durable goods production 50 per cent, profits 78 per cent. The increase in unemployment reproduced scenes of the early depression and imposed new burdens on the relief agencies.”

In the view of such acknowledged economic disaster after more than five years of vaunted reform, how can fawning historians still worship at the altar of Rooseveltian idolatry? Normal depressions or recessions last between one to three years; the Great Depression continued to depress living standards and impose severe hardships for more than a decade. A growing majority of economic historians now concede that the programs of the New Deal prolonged, rather than terminated, the Depression. David Kennedy, the former President of Stanford University, wrote a 1999 Pulitzer Prize winning account called Freedom from Fear in which he concluded: “Whatever it was, the New Deal was not a recovery program, or at any rate not an effective one.” In nearly all European nations, afflicted by the worldwide economic crisis as was the United States, the depression ended more quickly than it did in Roosevelt’s America; in the words of economic historian Lester V. Chandler, “in most countries the depression was less deep and prolonged.” Even at the time, experts understood the misguided nature of FDR’s policies. In 1935, the Brookings Institution (then, as now, a left-leaning think tank) produced a 900-page report considering the impact of the New Deal’s most ambitious and controversial program, the National Recovery Administration (NRA), and concluded, “on the whole it retarded recovery.”

To counter the brute facts about the persistence of crippling unemployment and pervasive poverty in the face of the huge increases in governmental spending and activism, New Deal apologists cite two positive results from the feverish emergence of new programs: the restoration of “hope” in place of despair, and the implementation of needed “reforms” that planted the long-term seeds of justice even if they failed to bring economic recovery.

Concerning the notion of FDR’s alleged conquest of fear, Amity Shlaes (in her brilliant history of the Great Depression “The Forgotten Man”) points out that he achieved this change of mood through an old-fashioned vote-buying scheme in the style of the venal ward-heelers and big city bosses who still dominated the Democratic Party. She cites the nakedly political emphasis on the PWA, or Public Works Administration, under the control of Secretary of the Interior Harold I. Ickes. This federal operation laid the groundwork for the current Washington mania for “earmarks” –in which Congressional power-brokers arrange for buildings, bridges, and other facilities to gratify constituents across the country. With more than 3,000 counties in America, the PWA provided at least one project for all but 33 of them. The scale of spending startled even the responsible parties: with $3 billion in its first few years, at a time when the total federal budget in any given year was barely $6 billion. Secretary Ickes himself wrote concerning the expenditure for his program, “It helped me to estimate its size by figuring that if we had it all in currency and should load it into trucks, we could set out with it from Washington, D.C., for the Pacific Coast, shovel off one million dollars at every milepost and, at the end, still have enough left to build a fleet of battle ships.”

The other defense of Roosevelt’s programs, beyond their success in brightening the national mood (and insuring his perpetual re-election) involves their inherent justice: Schlesinger and others suggest that even if the reforms failed to bring the promised recovery, their inherent “justice” (concerning the empowerment of labor unions, the regimentation of agriculture under federal control, tighter supervision of banking, and countless other “improvements”) made them nonetheless worthwhile. Regarding this argument, no less a leftist hero than the British economist John Maynard Keynes offered a tart response. He wrote FDR a letter published on December 31, 1933 in the New York Times in which he warned that “even wise and necessary Reform may, in some respects, impede and complicate Recovery. For it will upset the confidence of the business world and weaken their existing motives to action.”

In other words, he perceived at the very beginning of the New Deal its most damaging aspect: treating the nation’s capitalists as an enemy --“the unscrupulous money changers” FDR called them in his inaugural, who “have fled from their high seats in the temple of our civilization.” With new, unpredictable government regulatory schemes and law suits and political attacks emerging every week, business leaders found it difficult to prepare the long term planning that alone could restore investment and entrepreneurial energy and put Americans back to work.

2. MAJOR RECESSIONS – BOTH BEFORE AND SINCE FDR – HAVE ENDED MORE QUICKLY WITHOUT MASSIVE GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION

The Great Depression hardly constituted the only economic collapse in US history. The nation endured major reverses and sharply increased unemployment in 1815, 1837, 1873, 1893, 1920, 1958, 1979 and many other occasions. The record shows consistently that leaders who cut government to revive the economy succeeded far more quickly and painlessly than the New Deal.

The punishing Panic of 1837 wrought havoc for American commerce and cost President Martin Van Buren his chances of re-election in 1840, but Jim Powell points out that Van Buren responded in precisely the appropriate way: he cut federal spending from $37.2 million to $24.3 million and sharply reduced taxes (mainly tariff revenue). He determined “to make government cheaper and stay out of the way of the private sector.” As a result, the young nation roared back to recovery and resumed its spectacular economic growth shortly after Van Buren left office.

Another serious downturn, the Depression of 1893, produced four million unemployed, violent strikes and a colorful march on Washington by the dispossessed of “Coxey’s Commonweal Army” who marched en masse from Ohio behind a banner with an image of Christ and the legend “HE IS RISEN!! BUT DEATH TO INTEREST ON BONDS!!!” The marchers demanded interest free advances from the government and a new program to hire the legions of unemployed to build highways across America, but the Democratic president, Grover Cleveland, refused to see them or to consider their pleas. Instead, he determined to reduce burdens on taxpayers, cutting tariffs and blocking an income tax. He even vetoed a bill (among more than 300 “relief” measures he stopped) to distribute $10,000 in seed grain to drought-stricken Texas farmers. In his veto message, the President wrote: “Federal aid in such cases encourages an expectation of paternal care on the part of the Government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character.” By the end of 1894, depressed income figures began to turn upward and the entire depression ended within two years.

Most striking of all, the reviled President Warren Harding proved himself a masterful manager of the sharp recession that followed the conclusion of World War I and which he faced when he came to power in 1921. Nobel prize-winner Milton Friedman identified the decline of the money supply “as the largest percentage decline” up to that time, and the largest in American history other than the Great Depression. As the great British historian Paul Johnson (“A History of the American People”) writes: “Harding inherited from the comatose Wilson regime one of the sharpest recessions in American history." By July, 1921 it was all over, and the economy was booming again. Harding and Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon had done nothing except cut government expenditure by a huge 40 percent from Wilson’s peacetime level, the last time a major industrial power treated a recession by classic laissez-faire methods, allowing wages to fall to their natural level. Benjamin Anderson of Chase Manhattan was later to call it ‘our last natural recovery to full employment.’ The cuts were not ill-considered but part of a careful plan to bring the spending of the monster state which had emerged under Wilson back under control. The result of these cuts, and of even sharper tax cuts under Harding’s successor Coolidge, was the long period of growth and rising living standards associated with the “Roaring Twenties,” interrupted only by the prolonged Depression made worse by governmental meddling by both Hoover and Roosevelt.

Reagan enjoyed similar success by cutting taxes dramatically to cope with the crippling and stubborn Carter legacy of “stagflation,” and Eisenhower and both Presidents Bush managed to make other recessions short-lived without ambitious new government programs. Rather than depending on government programs to cushion us from the impact of inevitable economic downturns, the American people have benefited far more reliably by the proper instinct to cut government and stimulate the economy in times of slow or negative growth.

3. THE MOST CELEBRATED ADVOCATES FOR THE POOR IN EARLY AMERICAN HISTORY CALLED FOR LESS GOVERNMENT, NOT MORE

The Democratic-Republican Party of Thomas Jefferson, which evolved into the Democratic Party of Andrew Jackson (hence the “Jefferson-Jackson Dinners” that today’s Democrats still celebrate) argued for less government involvement in the economy, not more. Their opponents, Federalists and later Whigs, favored a more activist government that would assist business interests in building prosperity. For more than a hundred years, the chief intrusion of government policy into economic activity involved tariffs and other restrictions on free trade--- generally supported by Federalists, Whigs and later Republicans – designed to benefit business interests even while increasing costs for the consumer. At least through President Cleveland (who left office in 1897) the Democrats, who claimed as they do now to represent the “working man” and “the little guy” favored small government, low taxes, low tariffs and the disentanglement of business from bureaucracy as the best way to assure that ordinary citizens escaped the destructive impact of governmental favoritism for big business.

4. THE ERA OF SMALL GOVERNMENT PROVIDED GREATER, NOT LESSER, ECONOMIC MOBILITY

Despite the absence of federal programs to “help” the poor and downtrodden, the nineteenth century in America remained an unprecedented era of social and economic mobility. The Horatio Alger stories that became bestsellers and inspired the nation reflected reality, and the unprecedented ability of American families (including those of newly arrived immigrant masses) to rise from abject poverty to middle class status (or above) in one, two or three generations. Social programs didn’t power this escalator to prosperity: economic growth did. In their 1963 book “A Monetary History of the United States, 1867-1960,” Milton Friedman and Anna Jacobson Schwartz write: “The final two decades of the nineteenth century saw a growth of population of over 2 percent per year, rapid extension of the railroad network, essential completion of continental settlement, and an extraordinary increase both in the acreage of land in farms and the output of farm products. The number of farms rose by nearly 50 per cent – despite the price decline. Yet at the same time, manufacturing industries were growing even more rapidly, and the Census of 1890 was the first in which the net value added by manufacturing exceeded the value of agricultural output. A feverish boom in western land swept the country during the eighties.” Meanwhile, with government consuming a smaller portion of the Gross Domestic Product than other industrial powers (Britain, Germany, France) the United States emerged as the most open and mobile society on earth, providing opportunities for the penniless that more bureaucratic nations couldn’t match.

5. ANTI-POVERTY AND GREAT SOCIETY PROGRAMS OF THE ‘60’S AND ‘70’S WORSENED, RATHER THAN IMPROVED, THE STATUS OF THE POOR

As Ronald Reagan famously declared, “We had a war on poverty. And poverty won.” Charles Murray’s ground-breaking 1984 book “Losing Ground” asks an obvious question about the era of the “Great Society” and its aftermath: what caused the obvious and painful increase in poverty, illegitimacy, crime and social dysfunction at the same time that government spending to address these pathologies vastly increased? He concluded that the well-intentioned and monumentally expensive programs of the period contributed to the problems, rather than to their solutions.

Most importantly, the programs of the Great Society went far beyond the New Deal in erasing the distinction between the “deserving poor” and the “undeserving poor”—making all struggling citizens eligible for the same programs, regardless of the respectability or destructiveness of their behavior. This approach stemmed from the assumption that the poor bore no responsibility for their status – creating a culture of helpless victimhood and presumed powerlessness that undermined the confidence and self-discipline needed to escape poverty. An individual who bears no responsibility for his situation exerts no control over it – and must depend on outside forces (in this case the federal government) for his redemption. By removing the stigma previously associated with accepting “the dole,” anti-poverty programs encouraged a culture of dependency and discouraged self-reliance. The very concept of “Welfare Rights” (eagerly promoted in the 1970’s) worked against the old idea that the “honest poor” who refused hand-outs and insisted on toiling for their own advancement deserved special respect and encouragement.

The ultimate vindication for Murray’s arguments came with federal welfare reform in 1996 which succeeded in cutting the number of dependent individuals by more than half and corresponded with a period or rapidly declining poverty.

6. GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS CROWD OUT THE MORE EFFECTIVE WORK OF PRIVATE CHARITY

A paper by Daniel Hungerman of the National Bureau of Economic Research demonstrates the precipitous decline in church-based private charity to benefit the needy as government aid expenditures increased more than six-fold from 1933 to 1939. In “Faith-Based Charity and Crowd Out During the Great Depression” he shows that in 1926, congregations invested vastly more ($150 million) on these charities than federal, state and local agencies combined ($60 million at most). With the rise in New Deal expenditures, each dollar of government-relief spending in a state led to between three-and-seven cents less church spending. Since overall federal investment dwarfed the charitable investment (by a ratio of more than 10 to 1) this meant a significant reduction – an estimated 30% -- in the amount devoted by churches to helping the poor.

In “The Tragedy of American Compassion” (1992), Marvin Olasky of the University of Texas explores numerous reasons that private charities function more effectively to uplift the poor. For instance, “A century ago, when individuals applied for material assistance, charity volunteers tried first to ‘restore family ties that have been sundered’ and ‘reabsorb in social life those who for some reason have snapped the threads that bound them to other members of the community.’ Instead of immediately offering help, charities asked, ‘Who is bound to help in this case?” This approach of course discouraged the extension of poverty as a semi-permanent status passed on from one generation to another. As Olasky maintains, faith-based and private aid organizations also maintained the crucial ability to make distinctions between “deserving” and “self-destructive” poor. “Charities a century ago realized that two persons in exactly the same material circumstances, but with different values, need different treatment. One might benefit most from some material help and a pat on the back, the other might need spiritual challenge and a push.”

One of the great difficulties of all bureaucratized and governmental interventions, no matter how well intentioned, is the official difficulty in making such distinctions, or helping to repair or encourage the family relationships so essential to escape from poverty and dysfunction.

7. NOSTALGIA AND POLITICAL CORRECTNESS CLOUD CONSCIOUSNESS OF THE RECENT PAST

With rapid upward mobility still a prominent factor in American life, many families feel proud to exaggerate their own past destitution and somehow prefer to identify government as the source of their progress rather than business. A few years ago I saw this principle at work when speaking to a Jewish Temple in Florida. An angry questioner denounced my conservative politics by insisting that Jews in America owed our prosperity exclusively to liberal programs: were it not for the unions and the radical organizers and for the leftists and their compassionate initiatives, we’d all still be toiling in sweat shops and living in tenements. In response to his impassioned declaration, I asked for a show of hands in the crowd of some 700 people. I asked how many came from families in which labor unions played an important role in economic advancement. A few hands shot up, proudly—at most two or three dozen. Then I asked how many people in the audience came from families who had arrived in the middle class because of federal welfare programs. Members of the crowd looked at one another nervously, but only three people raised their hands in the entire Temple. Finally, I asked the most telling question: how many in that crowd had come to their current state of comfort and opportunity because someone, a parent or a grandparent or the individual himself, had worked hard in business and achieved some measure of success? At this, the overwhelming majority of the audience lifted hands, laughed and applauded in recognition.

Whether the crowd happened to be Jewish, or Irish, or Italian, or Mexican-American, or black, the response wouldn’t have been much different. The vast expansion of the Middle Class that occurred in the 1950’s involved productive work in the private sector and only one prominent form of governmental assistance: the GI Bill, which helped countless veterans (like my father) pay for education and housing and the launching of businesses. The GI Bill – providing long-term reward for military service – hardly constituted a something-for-nothing welfare program.

America has always been a compassionate society, finding various means – mostly private but occasionally involving state and local funds – to provide help to those who required it. “Rugged individualism” never meant isolation from neighbors, family, or fellow congregants. In that context, attempts by left-leaning commentators to credit government alone for social and economic progress remain strained and unpersuasive.

Consider, for example, the argument offered by comedian, talk-show host and Minnesota Senate candidate Al Franken concerning his wife, Franni. In his stump speeches, he often re-tells “Franni’s Story” in these terms:

“When she was seventeen months old, her dad – a decorated veteran of World War II – died in a car accident, leaving her mother, my mother-in-law, widowed with five kids.

“My mother-in-law worked in the produce department of a grocery store, but that family made it because of Social Security survivor benefits....Every single one of the four girls in Franni’s family went to college, thanks to Pell Grants and other scholarships… And my mother-in-law got herself a $300 GI loan to fix her roof, and used the money instead to go the University of Maine. She became a grade school teacher, teaching Title One kids- poor kids- so her loan was forgiven. “My mother-in-law and every single one of those five kids became a productive member of society. Conservatives like to say that people need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps – and that’s a great idea. But first, you’ve got to have the boots. And the government gave my wife’s family the boots.”

It’s a moving tale, but it’s hard to believe that without federal programs Franni’s family, with its obvious motivation and intelligence, would have found no way to become “productive members of society.” Especially as the survivors of a decorated veteran, assistance would have been available – if not through the VA, then certainly through local or private agencies. Would the University of Maine truly (or properly?) deny scholarship aid to a widow of a war hero who’s trying to raise five kids? The recent e-bay auction of an angry Senatorial letter to Rush Limbaugh has now raised more than four million dollars (with Limbaugh’s matching contribution) for a private charity that provides scholarships for the children of fallen warriors in the Marines and in law enforcement. This prominent story should serve as a reminder that acts of kindness, decency and generosity are hardly limited to the politicians and bureaucrats in Washington, D.C.

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That’s the problem with the underlying assumption that the poor can only advance in this nation with the assistance of the federal government: it not only dismisses (and undermines) the self-help potential of the needy, but ignores all those other sources of assistance beyond the Beltway.

In this sense, it’s instructive to go back one last time to Franklin Roosevelt’s First Inaugural Address. Everyone recalls its reassuring opening: “This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself…” Unfortunately, the rest of the speech includes chilling language reminiscent of the Fascist dictatorships simultaneously taking shape in Europe. “….if we are to go forward,” the new President declared, “we must move as a trained and loyal army willing to sacrifice for the good of a common discipline, because without such discipline no progress is made, no leadership becomes effective. We are, I know, ready and willing to submit our lives and property to such discipline.”

Was the audience at this point supposed to raise arms and shout “Sieg Heil”?

“With this pledge taken,” FDR continued, “I assume unhesitatingly the leadership of this great army of our people dedicated to a disciplined attack on our common problems…It is to be hoped that the normal balance of executive and legislative authority may be wholly adequate to meet the unprecedented task before us. But it may be that an unprecedented demand and need for undelayed action may call for temporary departure from that normal balance of public procedure.”

Is it any wonder that conservatives gravely feared a grievous suspension of Constitutional rule?

Roosevelt baldly announced: “I shall ask the Congress for the one remaining instrument to meet the crisis – broad Executive power to wage a war against the emergency, as great as the power that would be given to me if we were in fact invaded by a foreign foe.”

In giving some indication just how he might employ that power, Roosevelt spoke (in the speech’s single most shocking (and altogether forgotten) passage of the need for a relocation program that might have pleased Mao, Stalin or Pol Pot: “Hand in hand with this we must frankly recognize the overbalance of population in our industrial centers and, by engaging on a national scale in a redistribution, endeavor to provide a better use of the land for those best fitted for the land.”

Fortunately, the New Deal never included a new alphabet agency to correct “the overbalance of population in our industrial centers” by driving people by bayonet into the country, but the mere suggestion illuminates the mentality behind FDR’s initiatives and all other sweeping liberal “reforms” over the years.

Under this thinking, the government and its planners make the crucial economic decisions for the people they command --- the enlisted men in the “trained and loyal army” who are “willing to submit our lives and property to such discipline.” The very idea that bureaucrats and politicos can direct economic advancement more reliably than individuals making millions of small decisions for themselves has not only reduced liberty, but invariably threatened prosperity in the process.

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About The Author
Michael Medved's daily syndicated radio talk show reaches one of the largest national audiences every weekday between 3 and 6 PM, Eastern Time. Michael Medved is the author of eleven books, including the bestsellers What Really Happened to the Class of '65?, Hollywood vs. America, Right Turns and, most recently, The Ten Big Lies About America.
 
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Republicans have always hated FDR. Michael Medved is just the latest Republican to vilify him. It's scary, though, to think that if Republicans gain control of American History Textbooks that they will include the lie: "FDR prolonged the Great Depression", and kids will have their test questions marked "wrong" if they don't agree.

My grandfather, a legal immigrant coal miner, lost all his money in a bank that failed in the 1930's. One of the many good things that FDR did was to establish FDIC (Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation), so that, if a bank failed again, the small depositers ($100,000 and below) will not lose a dime. If that had been in place in the 1930s, my grandfather would not have lost any money. For some reason, (probably because it was part of the New Deal) FDIC infuriates Republicans. During the Reagan and Bush Sr. years there were frequently attempts by Republicans to eliminate FDIC (fortunately the Democrats stopped them).

Interesting that Medved does not want to acknowledge that government (we the American people) (1) helped Franni's family and (2) are better off for having helped Franni's family. This is an example of ideology trumping facts. Medved would rather crawl over a bed of nails than admit that Democratic policies of any kind did alot of good.

Caused by Bankers
In other words, he perceived at the very beginning of the New Deal its most damaging aspect: treating the nation’s capitalists as an enemy --“the unscrupulous money changers” FDR called them in his inaugural, who “have fled from their high seats in the temple of our civilization.”
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ts:
FDR knew good and well who the "unscrupulous money changers".. were, his pal the bankers.
And instead of ..."fled from their high seats in the temple of our civilization"


They (The bankers) took over the command of the economy (high seats)and Congress (temple of our civilization) with FDR's help and blessing.

Its called the Federal Reserve Banking Corporation, and its their paper we all use for the real money FDR took from citizens, gold, and replaced it with fiat paper.


He was slick with words though wasn't he.


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2. MAJOR RECESSIONS – BOTH BEFORE AND SINCE FDR – HAVE ENDED MORE QUICKLY WITHOUT MASSIVE GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION

The Great Depression hardly constituted the only economic collapse in US history. The nation endured major reverses and sharply increased unemployment in 1815, 1837, 1873, 1893, 1920, 1958, 1979 and many other occasions.

Every one of these depressions or panics was caused by BANKERS.

Look up Kentucky banking in the 1820's and why Jackson called bankers spawns of hell.

Then read the US Constitution and understand WHY the Founders demanded ONLY Gold and Silver for the payment of debts.

Note to Georgia girl:
The Federal Reserve Bankers are the ones who stole your grand fathers money to begin with.


From Madison to Lincoln to Wilson

Why the bankers always get a pass when the problem has been told over and over again all through out history.


The Greed of the Bankers never stopped trying to take the power away from the Government over the Issuing of MONEY.
They finally got their way with the fraudulent passing of the 16th amendment.

FDR and Keynes were nothing but stooges for the International Bankers.



“Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money."

Sir Josiah Stamp - Director of the Bank of England (appointed 1928)
Reputed to be the 2nd wealthiest man in England at that time.



History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance. -James Madison




The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity. -Abraham Lincoln

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Bankers are the problem for all recessions and panics in America.

Just as this latest episode with the home loans faulting all across the land.
They knew it would happen, and evidently wanted it too.

How could?
How could GeorgiaGal, after reading the conclusive findings of Medved, fail to understand the failures of all the government programs that find us still, after all these years, no better off. I spent at least 20 minutes reading Medved's treatise, reading things the Democrats don't want to hear. The truths therein apparently elude Georgiagal and certainly there will be others later in the day to echo her ignorance. Government stay out of our lives.

uwcharlie
Perhaps GeorgiaGal didn't take the time to read the article, choosing instead to write without reading to be the first to comment. GeorgiaGal labors under the misguided belief that politicians know better than she, you or I. Reality has always proven that government doesn't add to the economy, rather it adds to the problem. The workers in the private sector who actually produce wealth are forced to support not only themselves but the greedy hand of politicians as well.

Way to go Medved!
Didn't know he was so familiar with economics.
By the way, if we have the situation again, you can add massive INTRUSIVE govt. programs to the mix, such as Hillarycare requiring no kids be spanked at all, disallowing the heating of high cholesterol foods, this and that. It will be so much worse because we'll add NANNY govt. to the mix of tax and spend social programs that FDR used. And then the socialist revolution will be complete.

Tax Freedom Day
Look up "Tax Freedom Day" 2007:

USA 30 April
UK 1 June
Italy 24 June
France 5 July
Germany 5 July
Sweden 29 July

Government must be the answer for people who refuse to look within for the answer.

The thing that gets me about Medved
Is he writes something like this article, which he recognizes the destructive policies of the New Deal and is even caustic cause its by a democrat.

If he was not such a party hack, he could see how the very same destructive forces have given us NAFTA, CAFTA, FTAA, and now the NAU simply cause his buddies the republicrats are for it.

Many like Medved,(and a host of republicans) if the republicans are for it, its ok to rip the people off with such rotten policies that damage ordinary working people's lives.

The blind or the profiteers will compare NAFTA to 19th century America changing from agriculture to a manufacturing economy, where one was the natural growth of independent people, this other is government policy.
No different than FDR's New Deal.


Roosevelt
I can see why liberals love FDR. He tried to stack the courts (failed, thank God) would personally go over wealthy people's tax returns, gave us a ponzi scheme called Social Security, expanded govt more than any president in history, and put all Japanese Americans in internment camps.
PS the NRA and New Deal did nothing to solve the great depreson....WWII did

Finally...
...Medved gets something right! Great Article Mr. Medved.

Why in God's name ...
do people trust a man who can't get an honest job?

oh my
Yet another in Medved’s continuing series of half truths. FDR is perhaps the most interesting character in the struggle between liberal and conservative for control of history. The bitter truth is that FDR should be seen as a hero to the conservatives and a traitor to the liberals. What Medved says about his policies is true on the surface, but it is a far cry from the whole truth which tells an entirely different story.

The socialist movement grew throughout the 19th century to reach a level of near insurrection in the early 20th century. By WWI the socialist movement was defeated but the undercurrent of emotions that fueled it remained. Into this void stepped the communists. One of the things few people realize is the beauty of our system to defuse energies. FDR used the system to do just that. While he appeared to be making one concession after another, all he really did was enough to quiet the turmoil. In the end, FDR prevented the communists and socialists from expanding their foot hold into a major political force. In that respect, he actually saved this country and much of the western world. Unfortunately, most folks need heroes and villains; and since both hate and hero worship are blind, FDR remains a misunderstood character in history.

Here's your problem Medved
To your credit, Mr. Medved, you will admit that you have an agenda and that you're not objective. This is certainly true. You're a first class spin meister.

After years of listening to your show, I've learned one thing: You are very good at using language and the selective use of statistics to make very strong arguments for your side.

For example: I'm pretty sure you understand that there were no operational ties between Iraq and Al Queda, like the 9/11 commission said. But rather than admit the administration lied about that, you argue that Saddam had ties with "international terrorism" and that he was a supporter of terrorist groups. When pressed on the facts, you point to the fact that Saddam gave money to the families of suicided bombers, which, of course, has nothing to do with Al Queda. Either that, or you pass your challenger off to Stephen Hayes book The Connection, which is pure propaganda.

I remember when the 9/11 commission ceased official operations. The two co-chairs of the Commission held a press conference. When asked about ties between Iraq and al Queda, The Republican co-chair gave lip service to the idea that there might have been SOME ties, but the Democratic co-chair said what the report actually said: that there were no operational ties.

I heard BOTH responses on NPR. When I heard it on your show, however, you ONLY played the Republican response.

This is a perfect example of how you manipulate the facts Michael Medved.

And it's why I don't believe a word you say. I have little doubt that, if one looks at all of the statistics during the period of the Great Depression, an objective authority would come up with a much different narrative.

Phylo out.

of course
I should add that his attempt to stack the Supreme Court was one of the most reprehensible attempts to subvert the system by any president. Any history of FDR must include that. The man was a political strongman and far from a saint.

GeorgiaGal writes: 24, 2007 12:47 AM

...FDR did was to establish FDIC ...so that, if a bank failed again, the small depositers ($100,000 and below) will not lose a dime. If that had been in place in the 1930s, my grandfather would not have lost any money.

DESKJOCKEY WRITES

What FDR did was begin a legacy of moral hazard which promotes bad lending practices. Think we may be seeing the outcome of this yet again with the current financial debacle where BOA & CITI that have just taken huge hits for risky lending.

Charles Keating among many that went to prison reminds me of insured past debacles.

Who should have lost the money in 1930, your grandfather who got wanted higher interest from a riskier bank or the guy in a solid bank with lower interest? Why should the prudent man be forced to hand his money over to your grandfather by gun point. Under your plan prudent investing is punished because he pays for your grandfathers wreckless behavior.

This is why we have gone from banking problem to banking problem with good money chasing bad. We now see the same thing in companies having given outrageous health care concessions to unions knowing full well they’d never pay them but merely dump them off on the giver-ment. The term is MORAL HAZARD in eco101.

Rob
No Rob, you don't get it. I'm writing about Medved's utter lack of credibility and integrity.

I take it you think that education should not be provided for by the government either, right?

Yeah, that would make us a really great nation. Rob for president!

Phylo out.


Phylo se Fiser
Regarding FDR and economic conditions: Don't confuse me with facts, my mind (?) is made up.
Sir, economic conditions are immutable laws, just like gravity or physics. Whether you choose to believe them or not, they still apply.
Supply and demand, incentives versus penalties, all still affecr behaviour.

Perhaps you "think" gravity is a conservative lie; then by all means , jump off a tall building to demonstrate your beliefs.

on banks and free trade
The financial system simply won't work without
banks that people can trust - that is why the
regulatory part of the New Deal when dealing with
economics, not farming, was a lifesaver.

The FDIC and SEC have led to the greatest economy
the world has ever seen.

Earlier someone posted on current free trade deals -
if the Great Depression teaches us anything it is
the need for free trade to help economies. What
the 30s saw around the world was an increase in
tariffs and a reduction in trade.

Dolly Llama writes: 24, 2007 7:52 AM

The movie critic speaks
Why don't we have economic experts talking about this issue? Medved is a law school dropout and a movie critic.

DESKJOCKEY WRITES

I’m glad to see you agree with Medved and accept his facts and therefore resort to shooting the messenger.

A guy named Milton Freidman worked for FDR and realized as they concocted more programs they expanded a recession far beyond the years necessary.

Although Milton was a socialist, he was blessed with objectivity and pragmatism. He sought out Hayek to better understand how he & the administration had messed up so badly. That led to a Noble Prize eventually. Without FDR, Milton would have been teaching at Harvard in the next room to Chomsky, and providing economic strategy for MoveOn.org.

Just possibly
this article, short and incomplete as it is, should be a starting point for the Republican platform for the 2008 presidential election.

Barry

Phylo out
So, if we had unemployment at 17.4% (a number in 1934 that is easily verifiable regardless of your opinion of Medved) and say, Bush, instituted a sweeping series of governemnt programs and spending to combat it AND 7 years later we still had an unemployment of 17.4% (again, a matter of public record, not Medved's whim), you would declare Bush's programs and spending a vindication of government paternalism?

Why would you do that when the evidence, easily verifiable, clearly states otherwise?

Of course, acknowledging that artificial wealth redistribtion by government in times of financial crisis does not create wealth or prosperity is not something any liberal wakes up eagerly each day to proclaim to the world.

No, this is something they would just as soon not dwell on. Much easier to attack the author and disapprove of his source citations.

Phylo, you want to impress somebody? Do some googles and prove that indeed The New Deal DID lower the unemployment rate from 17.4% in seven years and that Medved was in fact wrong.

Cliff writes: 24, 2007 8:42 AM

Why in God's name ...
do people trust a man who can't get an honest job?

DESKJOCKEY WRITES

Because FDR conned them to get presidency and therefore they had to justify their mistake.

We'd rather spite ourselves than admit we are wrong.

You will notice that is why presidents have generally never had an honest job.

Big Government?
In his show yesterday, Mebved was advocating for placing every homeless person into a government institution.

Before Reagan opened the doors of State Hospitals there were tens of thousands of 'patients' and ten of thousands of 'government workers' sucking the public mamary.

Talk about big government.

Medved also lauded Bush plan to buy crops from African farmers instead of United States farmers.
What amounts to placing foreigners on US payed welfare.

He is also in favor of amnesty for illegal aliens. Which creates a whole new population of victims in need of government aid.

So it seems that Medved rejection of 'big government' is not based on the limited government principle but in rethoric convenience.

That is the reality of RINOlogy. Talk Liberty but vote big government.

RINOs don't want smaller government they just disagree about the kind of government program they want to fund.

Is time for them to go.

Wow! Amazing column!
If "brevity is the soul of wit," there's NOTHING witty about Medved's column!

But his facts, his arguments and his command of the subject are truly unassailable. I don't agree with him, but I can't argue with him until I do the same amount of research he must have done - which is a lot. People like Phylo who argue evidently didn't read the article; they must just have a personal problem with the author.

I believe this must be an excerpt from an upcoming book by Medved. If it is, and his book is this well-written, he may convince me to agree with him.

I find it interesting
that so many use ad hominem attacks against Medved here, but present not a single fact to refute anything he said.

From someone who lived through and understands the disatrous FDR years.

everyonesfacts writes: 24, 2007 10:32 AM

The financial system simply won't work without
banks that people can trust - that is why the
regulatory part of the New Deal when dealing with
economics, not farming, was a lifesaver.

The FDIC and SEC have led to the greatest economy
the world has ever seen.

Earlier someone posted on current free trade deals -
if the Great Depression teaches us anything it is
the need for free trade to help economies. What
the 30s saw around the world was an increase in
tariffs and a reduction in trade.

DESKJOCKEY WRITES

Scary but lately you are making some sense. I think if you stay away from immigration you could be a star. Anyway I think you are correct that an argument can be made for giver-ment to protect property. The FDIC may certainly provide that oversight function, but clearly robbing Peter who saves wisely to pay for Paul who doesn’t was not a proper function of FDIC.

Not that the concept is wrong as we have Ambac and MBIA insurance to guarantee financial integrity without the Feds doing it. If there were no FEDS there would automatically be a bank bail out function by an Ambac type entity. Actually today these type organizations provide guarantees on brokerage accounts for multi-millions above the $500K the Feds provide.

The reason the Feds present a problem is the Reagan debacle with savings and loans where he demanded everybody turn a blind eye to the outrageous high risk lending they were doing all knowing the tax payer where going to pick up the bill, but he hoping the outrageous reckless lending would turn the economy. We had the Keating 5 actually demanding the Feds hold off audits and not report audits so these criminals could continue mounting the abuse that the taxpayer bailed out. The private insurers have no incentive to do such a thing.

ex-canuck
ex canuck: Sir, economic conditions are immutable laws, just like gravity or physics.

Phylo: Where did you get your economic education, from the back of a cereal box?

I suppose you think the Laffer curve is an immutable law.

If you do, go look up something called the neo-Laffer curve.

You might want to look up the word "immutable" while you're at it.

Phylo out.

citizen carrier
Medved may well be right about the unemployment statistics. But after listening to his show for several years I know that Medved cherry picks his facts to suit his argument. Unemployment is not the ONLY measurement of the strength of an economy. The Soviet Union had zero unemployment for example.

One reason why I don't trust Medved: He has argued repeatedly that Bush's tax cuts went mostly to the people in the middle class.

You can work the numbers to make that argument by comparing percentages rather than looking at dollars, but it's completely disingenuous. Millionaires are saving hundreds of thousands of dollars while the middle class guy is saving a few hundred dollars.

I will admit that I didn't read the whole column. I didn't because I can't get past the suspicion that he's messing with the facts and I don't have the time to research all of his assertions, and i don't want to fall victim to his manipulation.

Phylo out.



One example of medved's trickery
Medved: Roosevelt baldly announced: “I shall ask the Congress for the one remaining instrument to meet the crisis – broad Executive power to wage a war against the emergency, as great as the power that would be given to me if we were in fact invaded by a foreign foe.”


Phylo: At least he had the integrity and the honesty to ASK Congress and tell the American people exactly what he was doing.

Bush and Cheney, on the other hand, decided to expand executive powers in secret and by showing his contempt for the Congress through signing statements and by unilaterally ignoring the FISA laws.

Yet, you don't hear ANY outrage coming from the right wing puntitocracy, certainly not from Medved.

So typical. Does anyone wonder why I don't trust this sheister?

Phylo out



Incredible!
Medved: Roosevelt baldly announced: “I shall ask the Congress for the one remaining instrument to meet the crisis – broad Executive power to wage a war against the emergency, as great as the power that would be given to me if we were in fact invaded by a foreign foe.”

Phylo: At least he had the integrity and the honesty to ASK Congress and tell the American people exactly what he was doing.

The stupidity some people will resort to in order to defend the stupidity of their flawed heroes.

Easy money and the quest for power.
Easy money can be associated with almost all of the past financial downturns. Easy money has become the almost exclusive domain of the government in the US. We are now printing money at an unprecedented scale to prop up both the spending habits of the government and to prop up the greed in financial markets. These poor fiscal policies pose an extraordinary risk to not only our economy but our continued leadership in the world. We now have competition for goods, services, and innovation we have not had since the European heyday that preceded our rise to prominence. At the same time we are gutting our currency and lending money at a fearsome rate just to sustain our government excesses and corporate greed.

If I were to agree with anything in this article, it is that poor policies of the federal government promulgated by poor leadership is a big problem. I firmly believe we are in a period of historically poor leadership that may lead to our demise as a world power. I see no one in the current batch of candidates with the perspective or policies to correct this current spate of illusory wealth. This is not a left vs. right problem any more. We are in the middle of a power grab by political engines to the benefit of the multi-nationals at the expense of domestic business and our middle class.


Not so independent thinker
My point isn't to praise Roosevelt. My point is to compare Roosevelt's level of integrity and honesty with Bush's utter lack of either.

Comprende?


Hey Liberals - -
Ok, liberals, we understand. You don't like Bush. In fact, you hate Bush. We get it. We know. We agree with you, you hate Bush.

Whatever.

And you know what? Many of us on the other side of the aisle aren't particularly crazy about him either. And yes, I know, Clinton gets dragged into the conversation far too often as well. Ok, but we still agree with you, you love Clinton, and you hate Bush.

So now that we're all in agreement, can we go sing Kumbaya or something like happy little campers and talk about something else?

Unca Alby
Well done.

I am trying to figure out what Bush has to do with this column.

This column is about the advent of the "nanny state" and the gov't being convinced it can run OUR lives better than WE can. Period.

Right wrong or indifferent, the entitlement philosophy kicked off with the New Deal. Of course, it may have been a non issue had the income tax not come into play in the Wilson administration.

A few points on the article
FDR is seen as one of our 3 great presidents
because he a) restored people's confidence in the
government and b) helped win WWII. And it is
interesting that he did (a) even with policies
that undoubtedly extended the New Deal. Nothing
Medved writes takes away from either of these.

now some points:

1. The Great Depression was far deeper and wider
than the depressions Medved compares them to.

2. FDR's 1st Inaugural is scary and could've
foreshadowed one of the biggest showdowns in U.S.
history between the legislative and executive if
the Democrats not swept to power.

3. I would like to see a comparison between
1945-75 and any other 30 year period in U.S.
history for wealth generation and economic
mobility. My guess is the so-called era of
big government will compare favorably. But the
reason for this is the destruction of Europe
and Japan (What is important to note there
are always more than factor influencing these
type of stats.)

4. The attack on Great Society programs is
untrue statistically - it can be argued that no
program would've been better, but poverty as it
is defined was reduced after the Great Society:
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/histpov/hstpov2.html

Again there might have been other factors for this.

5. Private charity was not up to the task of the
Great Depression - if it had been Hoover would've
been reelected. OF course, Hoover and the Repubs
of the era were for raising revenue by raising
tariffs - this was not a good strategy.

Deskjockey and insurance
I can agree with Deskjockey that maybe now is the
time for the government to get out of insuring
bankers / depositors, but my point was in the 1930s
there was not a business as far as I know that could
do the job FDIC would do. I don't think Morgan
wanted the job.

MikeR
"The socialist movement grew throughout the 19th century to reach a level of near insurrection in the early 20th century. By WWI the socialist movement...FDR remains a misunderstood character in history."

Interesting perspective on the value of FDR. He should be appluaded for helping stem the rising socialist/communist tide at the time. But not for creating a liberal and statist regime in its place, helped by the New Conservatives' desire to create conservatively virtuous but still statist regime. Few Individualists stand against statism today the way Mises, Hayek and Rothbard tried.

Rob
"It's about the governement doing things for you. And now Americans like those I mentioned above expect it."

Instead of taking the responsibility and doing for yourself. Yes.

"Government's role should be to protect you, your loved ones and your property ...PERIOD."

Yes, protect individual rights--if it has any legitimate role.

Living proof
I'm living proof that the US in 1992 DID NOT have "the worst economy since the Great Depression".

That year, I was doing grad studies (towards an MSCS) and got a cent-percent rejection rate for my employment applications in the summer (one letter sent, one rejection). When I started more serious applications in September, I scored several interviews--almost landing a job offer in December (I failed due to failing to appear for the interview--as my car had died enroute).

Chiding about missing the point

All the while you missed mine is hardly persuasive you are attentive to what I was talking about.
Fact is you missed it.
------------------------

Rob writes: 10:01 AM
Phylo, Georgiagal, Talent Scout
just don't get it

This isn't about FDR, he was an example, nor is it about Nafta, coal miners or Iraq. "It's about the governement doing things for you."
----------------

I was pointing out this very thing:

"It's about the governement doing things for you."

Anyone who calls nafta or any government trade issue free trade has to be.....dumb.

There is no free trade when government sets the policy for trade

The hypocricy of Medved

"“With this pledge taken,” FDR continued, “I assume unhesitatingly the leadership of this great army of our people dedicated to a disciplined attack on our common problems…It is to be hoped that the normal balance of executive and legislative authority may be wholly adequate to meet the unprecedented task before us. But it may be that an unprecedented demand and need for undelayed action may call for temporary departure from that normal balance of public procedure.”

Medved writes:
Is it any wonder that conservatives gravely feared a grievous suspension of Constitutional rule?
---------------

One thing about FDR's abuse of power is at least he done it in the open and not behind closed doors as GW Bush is doing with the NAU, SPP secreted meetings and sneers at any question as coming from "conspiracy nuts".

Medved is a Bush flunkie, just one more globalist who loves more government enlargement if a republican does it like Bush

Men without jobs - Cliff
Cliff,

Were you referring to Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton as those without jobs that we shouldn't trust? I'll trust Michael Medved any day of the week although I was disappointed that he didn't mention FDR's biggest screw-up - social security.

ts
1st, without government help, historically, you
would have virtually no oceanic trade at all.

2nd, The government does have a Constitutional right
to make trade treaties.

Lastly, I will take your point that NAFTA FTAA are
not absolute free trade, maybe a better term would
have been "freer trade" or "near free trade".
So not dumb, just not exact.

FDR & WWII
Social fascist (communist) FDR got us involved in WWII

A) to insure that social fascist (Nazi) Hitler wouldn't defeat social fascist comunist) Stalin

and

b) to reduce our population by over 1/4 of a million to reduce the number of people suffering due to his communist ways.

Dolly Llama
"The movie critic speaks "

If a movie critic's opinion can be discounted after doing his homework and becoming informed, why would we be even remotely interested in anything you had to say?

"Why don't we have economic experts talking about this issue? Medved is a law school dropout and a movie critic. "

But we do have plenty of economic experts talking about this issue. You haven't seen it because you obviously don't pay attention to economic experts. Why should you? The little voices in your head tell you all you need to know.

Excellent column
That is an excellent column. But Medved is starting to sound like one of those Ron Paul fanatics. 8-)

Comprende?
What I pointed out was how moronic it was for you to call such a thing "courageous."
You might as well have said of a killer or nank robber that was courageous because he came right out and said he was going to do it.
I suppose you are with Bill Maher in calling the 9/11 murderers "brave" as well.

As for your purported intention, you neither proved FDR's integrity nor said anything to prove Bush's lack of same.

Rob
You're an extremist, and absolutist. Me, on the other hand? I'm for whatever works. If government run health care works, I'm for it. If not, I'm against it. It's pretty much that simple for me.

I shudder to think of how this nation would look if we decided not to educate everyone. I suppose you would love it if one third of the population was illiterate so that you could exploit the hell out of them. Thankfully, you're stuck out on the fringe of public opinion.

Good luck with the campaign.

I see that talent scout is
another one of those "let's all praise FDR's diastrous economic debacles and abuse of power because he did it out in the open," nuts.
All tyrants exercise their abuse of power "out in the open" once they're in power.

central banking
I agree that central banking as created most of the problems and our boom/bust cycles with the Fed and Congress trying to manipulate the economy.

I also, agree that FDR's policies were bad.

But, we are where we are and the American people aren't going to let this nation reform until we hit bottom. We may see another 50% drop in the dollar and that will help speed us toward the bottom that many other things have put us on course to.

But, "we the people," are our biggest problem. We have elected representatives in both parties that put our demands ahead of what is good for the nation's long term health. That is why moral and social issues should have been left at the state level and for that matter, most economic issues. Thus, if one or a few states made bad choices, it didn't drag the whole nation down and the states that were doing good became examples for needed reform for the bad states, much quicker.

By centralizing so much at the federal level and moving away from a republic to a democracy, we have basically doomed ourselves. We took a good system of government and destroyed it.

FDR was a good example of "good intentions," gone bad. While trying to help the people, he hurt the nation's long term health that would eventually also hurt the people. Much of what he did is why it takes two working to do what one working could provide his family in the 40's and 50's and 60's. It took that long for many of the effects to reach the people and start lowering their buying power and ability to provide for their families. I don't fault FDR, however, anymore than all the Congresses of that time and from then on that kept perpetuating the mistakes once it became obvious they were mistakes.

svpallava
You said: "Living proof
I'm living proof that the US in 1992 DID NOT have "the worst economy since the Great Depression"."

I just have to shaked my head at whomever said that 1992 had "the worst economy since the Great Depression."

1992 was in no way anything like that.
Apparently this person wants to rewrite history, and leave the Carter administration, when we had double-digit inflation, double-digit interest rates and double-digit unemployment in some areas, entirely out of our history. But I suppose if I were a leftist demwit, I'd try to pretend the Carter Administration never happened, too.


lol
You see what you want to see numb skull, lol.
-------------

Independent Thinker writes: 3:04 PM
I see that talent scout is
another one of those "let's all praise FDR's diastrous economic debacles and abuse of power because he did it out in the open," nuts.
All tyrants exercise their abuse of power "out in the open" once they're in power.
----------
ts:
I would have FDR shot for his abuse of power.
So no, you see nothing dummy
I am against government growth from either party.
Dummy
Try asking a person what they mean if you do not understand a post.
Courtesy too high for your ignorance?

Mr. Medved
My great grandparents and grandparents lived through the Great Depression and the FDR years and never has any such delusions about him or his New Deal. I grew up listening to the evils of FDR.


As to those of you calling Mr. Medved simply a movie critic I will wage his education against yours any day! That includes you Dolly! Now I know why Shakespeare hated lawyers along with the rest of us.

Old Man
Well said.

It all comes back to State's rights. Rights the States piddled away starting with the income tax, the 17th Amendment, right through the New Deal and post WWII.

So many of the issues we talk about today should be State issues. Period.


No-talent scout
Your childish insults aside, I took you at your word, which I quote: "One thing about FDR's abuse of power is at least he done [sic] it in the open..."
You gave credit to FDR for his "openness" while taking the opportunity to take an off topic shot at Bush. Now you add, belatedly, after being called on your statement, disclaimers.
And you call me "dummy?"

Go chase your tail and stop wasting my time. I have no use for disgruntled flamers trying to use insults in defense of their shortcomings.

Educational Spending...
is nowhere in my constitution. It is a local matter and children would be educated all the same. Why do we send money to DC just to be laundered and sent back to the state in which it originated? Just because something "feels" right does not mean it is right or does not have long-range, negative consequences.

Lolo1
Once more you hit it on the head.

Kudos to you.

For Independent Thinker @ 15:24
On the nail about Carter--this was my assessment of him despite of only spending six months term (Jan-June 1977 while my dad took a sabbatical in Princeton from Calgary) in the US of his entire term. His only term as president rivals Trudeau's post-1980 time as PM in quality (althouth I don't know of Carter actually "birding" US as Trudeau did to Canada in 1982).

Unfortunately, Americans didn't see through BillyBubba when he made that claim (in his election campaign against Bush Sr).

So who said any different?
everyonesfacts writes: 2:40 PM
ts
1st, without government help, historically, you
would have virtually no oceanic trade at all.
-----------
ts:
Never said otherwise
-------------
everyonesfacts writes:
2nd, The government does have a Constitutional right
to make trade treaties.
-------------
ts:
Unlimited?
We do not have the same mind in understanding who is free to trade and what is not free trade then.

Dropping where government rules interfere with free trade, and then calling it free trade is not free trade in my view.

Dispute resolution in secret tribunals
Removes state court jurisdiction over cases
Property redefined for foreign investors


"The WTO, NAFTA, the General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS) and the upcoming Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA) have been formulated to limit government participation in a number of ways in the name of free market competition. Government measures such as subsidies, taxes, health and environmental regulations, administrative rules, and government provision of goods and services are viewed as potentially interfering with the free market disciplines of competition based on price and quality."


----------------

everyonesfacts writes: (what an offensive screen name, no ones facts)


Lastly, I will take your point that NAFTA FTAA are
not absolute free trade, maybe a better term would
have been "freer trade" or "near free trade".
So not dumb, just not exact.
--------

ts:
No, it is not closer to freer trade than it is free trade, no facts.
It is dumb to think nafta is free or freer trade for anyone but the international corporations.


Cookie
The kicker is that the feds can't fund No Child Left Behind even though they mandate it.

No, the real kicker is that once the states get the money, they s--k at spending it too. Never mind the fact that property taxes are climbing at an alarming rate to fund education, and have the nerve to claim there's not enough money.

THERE IS PLENTY OF MONEY!

this is all besides the fact that No Child Left Behind has nothing to do with educating children.

Free trade, is not free with nafta etc.
And Medved supports it, but hacks at FDR's New Deal.
For me both are wrong and no different


quote:
State and local laws may be affected because the trade agreements extend to all levels of government including administrative agencies or businesses contracted to implement programs legitimized by government authority.

The United States is a federalist government in which the federal government shares powers with the states. Federal law preempts state law where they conflict.

Trade agreements become federal law when congress ratifies them and, therefore, trump state and local law. There is a shift in power from the state to the federal government whenever the federal government agrees to international obligations that bind the states.

States are duty bound to govern for the benefit of the people of that state, which is a discriminatory standard by its nature.

The federal government, through the commerce clause of the U.S. Constitution prohibits the states from inhibiting interstate commerce in pursuit of local advantage.

Federal district courts hear disputes between foreign parties and the states. ....

Under NAFTA, foreign investors can bring these claims to binding international arbitration panels.

This avoids both the state and federal domestic court systems, and any obligation to use U.S. laws. This process lacks the predictability of the U.S. court system and the framework in which local and state governments function.

Under NAFTA claims are

decided in closed arbitration;
defended by the federal government;
the state does not have access to the hearings; and
state law is irrelevant.
The foreign investor is on par with the nation and chooses the court, the law, and level of transparency.

Proponents of real "free trade" consider this the loss of sovereignty and republican government.


http://government.cce.cornell.edu/doc/reports/freetrade/#bo ok1

Then do not start something
You are unable to deal with chump.

-------------
Independent Thinker writes: 3:44 PM
No-talent scout
Your childish insults aside, I took you at your word, which I quote: "One thing about FDR's abuse of power is at least he done [sic] it in the open..."
You gave credit to FDR for his "openness" while taking the opportunity to take an off topic shot at Bush. Now you add, belatedly, after being called on your statement, disclaimers.
And you call me "dummy?"

Go chase your tail and stop wasting my time. I have no use for disgruntled flamers trying to use insults in defense of their shortcomings.

--------

ts:
Not my fault you mis-read what I wrote in its own context, stupid.

Take a hike or try some courtesy before you start something with a person on a personal level, nitwit.

Keep it on the subject and not personal if you do not want your own vileness slammed right back at ya.
You started it idiot, flame thrower.
Now, you want to stop this sort of thing, we can agree.
I don't really care what you like or dislike to be honest.
Only an idiot could mis-read this

"One thing about FDR's abuse of power is at least he done it in the open and not behind closed doors as GW Bush is doing with the NAU, SPP secreted meetings and sneers at any question as coming from "conspiracy nuts"."

Idiot

FDR was great, thanks to WWII
FDR's integrity is beyond criticism because of the way he led during WWII. His judgment is definitely questionable because of the flawed social and economic policies he championed and implemented during his shortened four terms.

He was a great man; he was also wrong in the way he conducted domestic policy.

Good people can do bad things; FDR is the poster child...

elong & cookie
What's disgusting is that "singles" get taxed more than parents to cover the communist (public) schools and their agenda to convert children into communists.

Education should be as it was before the communists got involved - various organizations used their own money for constructing schools and providing educations for the children of their members. Today, the communists are attempting to eliminate msot private schools to ensure that the majority of students will be converted into communism.

FDR great?
If not for the policies of FDR, Hoover and many of their predecessors, not to mention the statists in Europe, there wouldn't have been a World War II, or the genocide that came with it. FDR probably is less guilty, only because he came after the economic crash of '29, but he did nothing but make the subsequent depression worse. Government cannot be the engine of production. It cannot do collectively what people acting as autonomous individuals must do themselves. It can only diminish individual action, by taxing production in order to subsidize consumption. Roosevelt couldn't see that any more than G.W. Bush today.

Medved says something here
that I have been saying for years. This is why I have always held FDR to be the worst president in history. He has done more than any other president to turn this country to a communist oligarchy of the politburo in D.C. He is followed closely by his son, LBJ who continued the tradition.

The only time that any Republican has done as much damage to the country it took a cabal of radical Republicans at the end of the civil war to eliminate forever the power of the States and enable people like FDR and LBJ to amass this power to destroy the country. We should keep that in mind.

anti-socialist
I would argue your assertion that singles pay more than parents when it comes to the board of ed. While that may be the case for some, most property taxes (those taxes which fund most school systems) are based on "home value" (which is a complete crock anymore). Believe me, a lot of parents or married people pay plenty.

I agree with other assertions.

The Worst?
As far a civil rights, FDR was probably the worst President of the 20th Century. Sending thousands of Americans off to detention camps without trial or even probable cause makes any "abuse of power" liberal critics accuse Bush of look like a joke. The only close parallel to FDR's camps would be the expulsion of the Cherokee nation and their forced march along the trail of tears.

Compared to FDR, Bush looks like friggin' JFK.

FDR
I never shared the admiration for FDR. The depression was ended by the beginning of World War II and not by anything that Roosevelt did.
I was born in 1922 so I was around back then and remember how bad it was. Able men who wanted to work could not find jobs. It is my opinion and I am not an economist that the New Deal and the actions of the Federal government actually made the Depression deeper and made it last longer than it would otherwise have done.
I believe the laws (not man's law-but natural law) governing economics are just as inexorable as those governing physics or astronomy. We break those laws at our peril. Actions do have consequences even though many of our people, maybe more so in the elite circles, such as academia, MSM and some government officials do not seem to recognize that.
It is also striking to me to read the vitriol in many of the comments and the attacks on the character and intelligence of the commenters.
But then decency, tolerance and good will is more noticed by its absence than by its presence in our entire society.
Donald W. Bales, Kingsport, Tn.

GeorgiaGal
"One of the many good things that FDR did was to establish FDIC (Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation)"

-- Nobody should accept info from Wikipedia articles as gospel; however, I challenge you, GeorgiaGal, to refute this: "President Franklin D. Roosevelt was personally opposed to [FDIC] insurance because it would protect irresponsible bankers, but yielded when he saw Congressional support was overwhelming."

While you are technically correct because FDR signed into law the bill establishing the FDIC, it can hardly be argued (as your statement implies) that it was in any way his idea, or that he was an enthusiastic supporter of it. In fact it could legitimately be argued that, if congressional support had been less than overwhelming, he very well may have vetoed the bill. Remember, this was a president who issued 635 vetoes (an average of 50 per year!) against a Congress where both houses were controlled by Democrats.

So, when you say, "it was part of the New Deal," you are right, but it was a part that basically was forced on Roosevelt.

more ad hominem...
Pointing out that Medved works as a movie critic and doesn't have a background in economics or history is not a valid way of criticising this article.

See, to do that you have to first read it. Then you find parts of it that you think are wrong and then build documentation and source citations to back up your point.

When I was in 8th grade I wrote a multi-page essay on the various uses of nuclear power for a science class. If I recall correctly, the teacher did not throw the paper back at me and say, "Nice try, kid, but I know you haven't studied nuclear physics in college. You just don't have the background for this."

Guys, taking that route is intellectually LAZY. Anybody with an education, despite it being from our public schools, can research a topic and write something about it.

Dolly Llama
"Why don't we have economic experts talking about this issue? Medved is a law school dropout and a movie critic."

-- This directly relates to Dennis Prager's current column about anonymous blog posting. Who Michael is is not of critical importance here. Check his facts and the sources he cites (like those economics experts you were asking about); THEN, if you disagree with his conclusions, voice your dissent. But, be prepared to counter his assertions with something more substantive than 'Medved is not qualified to discuss this topic'. What are YOUR qualifications? Or, do you actually agree with me that 'What is said' is the important factor, and that 'Who is saying it' is of secondary importance, if at all?

If we were commenting on an anonymous column with the premise 'The Holocaust never happened', would it matter if the writer was a Klan member, an eminent historian, or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? No! You don't tell tell the president of Iran that he's wrong about the Holocaust because he's a militant anti-semite; you tell him he's wrong because of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It's the same deal here.

MikeR
"While he appeared to be making one concession after another, all he really did was enough to quiet the turmoil. In the end, FDR prevented the communists and socialists from expanding their foot hold [sic] into a major political force. In that respect, he actually saved this country and much of the western world."

-- It's an interesting thesis; that, by instituting a mild form of socialism, FDR actually staved off the more radical forms of leftist govt (hardcore socialism and communism) by placating the proponents of those ideologies. Yes, very interesting indeed.

Just one thing, though ...

Please remind all of us: What was it that Ronald Reagan did to prevent communist expansion in the western world? How did he quiet the turmoil? What concessions did he make?

How did the number of communist states ever go from more than forty to today's number -- FIVE -- under a policy of conceding nothing?

god writes:
Medved is wrong... again
Here is to hoping that Medved dies a sudden . painful death.

And here is a fine example of liberal "tolerance."

Phylo Se Fiser
"I have little doubt that, if one looks at all of the statistics during the period of the Great Depression, an objective authority would come up with a much different narrative."

-- Why don't you be that 'one' and report back to us? It's one thing to believe that Medved is wrong, and it's another thing to say it. But, if you want to convince anyone that your opinion is correct, you need to PROVE IT.

"Medved may well be right about the unemployment statistics. But after listening to his show for several years I know that Medved cherry picks his facts to suit his argument. Unemployment is not the ONLY measurement of the strength of an economy."

-- I agree with all three of these statements. Of course Medved DID use a variety of economic statistics in his column. Didn't you read the whole ...

"I will admit that I didn't read the whole column. I didn't because I can't get past the suspicion that he's messing with the facts and I don't have the time to research all of his assertions, and i don't want to fall victim to his manipulation."

-- Oh. ... What a surprise! You didn't read the whole column. And yet you feel confident in commenting on it. Point One: You sound like the commentators who slammed Jimmy Carter's book because of the word "apartheid" in the title but didn't bother to read what was inside. Point Two: You don't have time to research his assertions but you do have time to write these multiple posts? How about one post wherein you refute Medeved's assertions? Point Three: Are you afraid of falling victim to his manipulation? or, are you really afraid you might discover that he's right on this one? You seem(ed) so confident that he's wrong; how could reading the entire article cause you to change your mind? If anything, it should provide you with more material that you can refute, right?

Citizen Carrier
Credentials are important because they give us a solid background for knowing what we're talking about. I notice that credentials are usually disparaged by people who don't have any. And---from googling---I notice also that townhall columnists are often pretty short on credentials. Example: Dr David Barton is accepted by conservatives as a historian and as an expert on the philosophy of our Founding Fathers, seen by Barton as strong on religion as a national force. He was retained by the GOP as an education consultant, has written books and papers, and is widely quoted as a historian. Well, guess what, it turns out Barton has ZERO credentials as a historian---he has only an undergraduate degree (from Oral Roberts University) and taught elementary school math at a fundamentalist Christian school run by his parents---his doctorate is honorary (from Pensacola Christian College). Now we get to the interesting part: legitimate historians read some of the pro-religion statements Barton attributed to the Founding Fathers and starting bookworming. They found no such and started blowing whistles. Then Barton admitted he had fabricated and distorted in order to make his ideological point. And his publications are published by a publishing house he, himself, owns. In brief, as a historian, David Barton is a BS Merchant. Yet when he has appeared on townhall, he is assumed to be a credentialed historian by readers who agree with what he says. Agreement and acclaim do not establish academic credentials.

$2.4 trillion on wars
$2.4 trillion on wars projected over next decade

Do you think Bush should blow off Congressional Budget Office on the $2.4 TRILLION dollar cost of war?

MSNBC-White House brushes off analysis of Iraq, Afghanistan fight as ’speculation’

Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could cost as much as $2.4 trillion through the next decade, according to a new analysis Wednesday that the White House brushed off as “speculation.”

The analysis, by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, provides the most comprehensive and far-reaching estimate to date, taking into account costs previously not counted and assuming large number of forces would remain in the regions.

According to CBO, the U.S. has spent about $600 billion to date on both wars, including $39 billion in diplomatic operations and foreign aid.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/24-trillion-on-war s-projected-over-next-decade

Phylo Se Fiser
"At least he [FDR] had the integrity and the honesty to ASK Congress and tell the American people exactly what he was doing. Bush and Cheney, on the other hand, decided to expand executive powers in secret ... Yet, you don't hear ANY outrage coming from the right wing puntitocracy [sic?], certainly not from Medved. So typical. Does anyone wonder why I don't trust this sheister [sic]?"

-- Being up front with your wrong actions somehow excuses them or makes them acceptable? How does that work? As for not trusting Medved, who's asking you to trust him? Give evidence that contradicts him, if you can. Your distrust alone is no proof that he's wrong in this case.

Personally, I distrust anyone who can't spell 'shyster'.

lilly
"Credentials are important because they give us a solid background for knowing what we're talking about. ... Agreement and acclaim do not establish academic credentials."

-- Is it just me, or is this off-topic? Is anyone here accusing Michael Medved of misrepresenting his academic credentials? Is there any part of his column where he claims academic expertise in this subject? If you want to make the case that we should be skeptical of Medved's statements and conclusions because he is not an expert, that's one thing; if you want to make the case that his opinion should be discounted out of hand beacause he is a layman, I have one thing to say about that:

I have no faith in what lilly writes, because I have no proof of lilly's academic credentials.

Lily
The criticism leveled at Medved is much the same as if Medved had written a one paragraph article about FDR and The New Deal that consisted of "FDR wasn't qualified to make economic policy of that magnitude based on his background."

Instead, Medved has written one of the longest columns I've ever seen on TH. One he obviously spent quite a bit of time researching and reading books about.

And when I see you criticize Hillary's credentials in the context of healtcare (there ain't none!), or cite Gore's college degrees in meteorology, or Bill's credentials in the use of military force, or Feinstein's credentials in the awarding of no bid contracts to her husband...er, wait...she actually has a background in that. Hmm.

Well, you get my point, right? If we conclude that Hillary has a right to have and voice an opinion on healthcare even if all she has ever done is READ about it, then we must also conclude that Medved's extensive research into this subject doesn't exactly disqualify him from making a point.

Ron Paul has the answer!
We need a new method to prioritize our spending. It’s called the Constitution of the United States. Pull it out and read it, then think about what the latest Republican, then Democrat congress has done. No child left behind. Drug benefits, unnecessry forien wars...Yes the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and coming soon, Iran are government expansion on the scale of empire! It is way past time to put the brakes on this monster that has rolled out of Wasington and is destroying everything in its path.

ChairmanMao
"In his show yesterday, Mebved [sic] was advocating for placing every homeless person into a government institution."

-- Not true. He advocated placing SEVERELY MENTALLY ILL homeless people in institutions. What's your solution to the homeless problem?

"Medved also lauded Bush plan to buy crops from African farmers instead of United States farmers.
What amounts to placing foreigners on US payed [sic*] welfare."

-- Food aid to Africa, as you define it, is 'welfare' regardless of where the food comes from. If you're an isolationist who thinks we shouldn't give food aid to foreign countries, that's one thing; I hope you and your conscience are okay. If, however, your problem is with whom the govt purchases its food aid from, here's something to think about: Considering that the US govt pays US farmers to NOT grow food, which limits supply and keeps prices at a level where farmers make a profit in the marketplace, Why not stimulate the African economy by buying crops from those that have and giving them to those who have none?

How different is this from the practice of allowing tax-deductible contributions to charity in this country? The govt 'buys' aid for those who need it by offering tax deductions to those with the 'supply' of aid (money).

modernone
"If I were to agree with anything in this article, it is that poor policies of the federal government promulgated by poor leadership is a big problem."

-- In other words, you agreed with the point of the article, which means you agreed with ... the article, right?

talent scout
"Medved is a Bush flunkie [sic], just one more globalist who loves more government enlargement if a republican does it like Bush"

-- Is your conclusion based on Medved's constant talk, on both his radio show and his blog, about how the failure to reduce the size of govt is the biggest failure of the Bush administration? This is incredible; the ONE area where Medved is most critical of Bush is the one you cite as proof that Medved is a Bush flunky! Yes, he's a Bush supporter, but he's not a mouthpiece for the administration.

"One thing about FDR's abuse of power is at least he done it in the open and not behind closed doors as GW Bush is doing"

-- Way to go, repeating the philosophy of Phylo Se Fiser: Open abuse is somehow not as bad as secret abuse. And how secret is anything that GW and Cheney have done? You know about it, right?

Phylo Se Fiser
"I'm for whatever works. If government run health care works, I'm for it. If not, I'm against it. It's pretty much that simple for me."

-- Sometimes 'simple' is too simplistic. It all depends on your definition of "works". If your definition is limited to 'Yes, we pay more in taxes, but everybody's covered', then sure, UHC works; if, however, your definition involves seeing the doctor of your choice, when you want, and receiving the same quality of care that you do under present conditions ... UHC may not work as well as might think it will.

Bush/Cheney's secret expansion of powers has kept the American homeland safe from terrorist attack for the last six years. Does that qualify as "whatever works"?

I will explain my reasons

talent scout
"Medved is a Bush flunkie [sic], just one more globalist who loves more government enlargement if a republican does it like Bush"

-------------
kingsXrulz writes: 9:56 PM
-- Is your conclusion based on Medved's constant talk, on both his radio show and his blog, about how the failure to reduce the size of govt is the biggest failure of the Bush administration? This is incredible; the ONE area where Medved is most critical of Bush is the one you cite as proof that Medved is a Bush flunky! Yes, he's a Bush supporter, but he's not a mouthpiece for the administration.
------------
ts:
No, its his support of the SPP and NAU and insulting attitude towards anyone who questions the goals of the President in his agreements with Mexico and Canada.

"One thing about FDR's abuse of power is at least he done it in the open and not behind closed doors as GW Bush is doing"
---------------

kingsXrulz writes: 9:56 PM
-- Way to go, repeating the philosophy of Phylo Se Fiser: Open abuse is somehow not as bad as secret abuse. And how secret is anything that GW and Cheney have done? You know about it, right?

------------
ts:
Don't be so smug
Neither is better, and was my point, the one Medved recognized in FDR and missed with GW Bush.

Try and get the Freedom of Information concerning all the agreements Bush has made with Canada and Mexico.

"The federal government has the exclusive power to make agreements with foreign governments.

The "treaties" discussed in this paper are actually presidential agreements.

They carry the same weight as treaties, but the ratification process is significantly different.


For both, the executive branch formulates the U.S. goals by consulting with 30 industry specific advisory boards and negotiates with foreign nations through the United States Trade Representative (USTR)."

http://government.cce.cornell.edu/doc/reports/freetrade/#bo ok1



Medved is right
elong writes: Wednesday, October, 24, 2007 12:43 PM
"Unca Alby
Well done.

I am trying to figure out what Bush has to do with this column.

This column is about the advent of the "nanny state" and the gov't being convinced it can run OUR lives better than WE can. Period."

I have not had time to thoroughly analyze Medved's column. My first reading of it, however, reminded me of many childhood experiences.

I lived through the great depression; I was young but the memories are real. It wasn't until I was older that I began to understand the fear and uncertainty that was evident with my parents and grandparents. It is a memory I shall never forget.

I was raised on a farm during the 1930's and was old enough to milk cows, hoe weeds, thin onions thin sugar beets and use my pony as a means of transportation.

I also remember the many times that the farmers had to destroy crops because no one had money to purchase them. I remember truckloads of watermelons that just rotted in the fields.

The worst year was during 1937-1938; there was no financial recovery; even the Germans were doing better (unfortunately) than we were. When the crops failed, my father, who had lost his truck, walked ten miles to work on project that paid $2.00 per day; he worked carrying railroad ties (If you think you are strong. try that for 10-12 hours per day; again, for less that $3.00 per day on the days that he was able to be put to work.

He often came home without any success. So between the farm work (and the loss of crops, or to put it more succinctly, money) he carried a heavy load.

Know what? My father never took his frustrations out on his family. At that time there were 4 boys in the family. And we learned early that work, hard work was mandatory. And my parents were wonderful people.

When WWII started, my father was 34 and had 5 boys (they just kept coming) so he was deferred. But he was fortunate to get a "war time" job.


Medveds last article here
Was all in praise of corporations, even using Thomas Jefferson who despised corporations.

Big government and international corporations are the problems that FDR was all for and GW Bush follows.

So Medved on one hand slams FDR and hypocritically supports FDR policy himself if Bush does it with Mexico and NAFTA.
Or am I mistaken and Medved is against NAFTA?
This will explain my gripe with Medved.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55 621
-------

Then this is what Jefferson considered free trade.


"The system of the United States is to use neither prohibitions nor premiums. Commerce there regulates itself freely and asks nothing better. Where a government finds itself under the necessity of undertaking that regulation, it would seem that it should conduct it as an intelligent merchant would; that is to say, invite customers to purchase by facilitating their means of payment, and by adapting goods to their taste. If this idea be just, government here [in France] has two operations to attend to with respect to the commerce of the United States: 1, to do away, or to moderate, as much as possible the prohibitions and monopolies of their materials for payment; 2, to encourage the institution of the principal manufactures, which the necessities or the habits of their new customers call for." --Thomas Jefferson to John Jay, 1788. ME 7:218

"I think all the world would gain by setting commerce at perfect liberty." --Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1785. ME 5:48, Papers 8:332

Just get government out of trade issues altogether, then we would have free trade.

Bush has his hands all over the NAU and SPP plans for the globalists, and Medved supports it by fighting those of us who just want it out in the open and let Congress in on it.


elong sucks at writing the word 'suck'
"No, the real kicker is that once the states get the money, they s--k at spending it too. Never mind the fact that property taxes are climbing at an alarming rate to fund education, and have the nerve to claim there's not enough money."

-- I agree completely. The more money govt (federal, state or local) takes in, the greater variety of projects it finds to spend it on ... and, ironically, there's less of it available for the areas where it's really needed.

He's still right
FDR's programs were a miserable failure for most people. In some areas where it was politically convenient; those who could look busy leaning on a shovel, pretending to work for a CCC job (not everyone was slacker) and being paid for it did fairly well.
We were able, after WWII started, to actually put in plumbing for culinary purposes. Prior to that we had a pump well; all water came from the well and if you needed hot water you had to heat it on the one coal stove in the house. (At night, extra blankets and snuggling next to my brothers is how we kept warm in the winter.)

Naturally, bathing was at a premium, but cleanliness was a firm law, laid down by my loving mother. We washed thoroughly every night and morning.


Still right
Now, it seems to me that I hear so often how terrible life is today.

Wake Up; you complainers have no idea of what you are talking about.

As to President Bush:

Those of you who don't know; President Bush was responsible for the great depression, wasn't he?

He's the source of every problem that we face today, obviously! It only makes sense to recognize that his "spirit" caused the depression.

History will yet reclaim the true character and ability of GWB. He's not perfect, but I defy any of you HATERS to be put in his position; face the tremendous events that were put into place prior to his term; see the end result of success to be achieved (which I believe is taking place); have the strength to lower taxes, which was essential.

I hear many words of cowardice coming from the HATERS; they are they who want everything handed to them on a silver plate.

I thank God that my children have taught their children how to work and how to behave.

I would challenge any of those who think that the world (government) should be their NANNY.

If you want a LOSS of FREEDOM, then put yourselves under government control as espoused by the Clintons and their ilk.

I believe in the underlying premise of "doing for myself as long as I am physically and mentally able.


Hate to break it to you
Tenore2
------

GW Bush is as much a globalist as Klinton was

Crash/depression
Traders use loans to make trades. The stock market crash happened because all the banks called in their loans at the same time. This was planned. This forced everyone to sell their stocks to cover loans. That caused the crash.

The subsequent depression was caused because the "money changers" tightened the money supply. The Fed is a private banking cartel. Property doesn't evaporate, it just changes hands.

I expect the coming economic collapse will make the depression look like a picnic. The money power/corporate interests who want the "new world order", NAU and ultimately one world gov will have their way. They have the power to crash the economy. They are not committed to the dollar and they need a means to bring Americans under subjugation. We will not accept the demise of our country willingly.

The current housing bubble/inflation was created by easy money. They are already tightening the money supply. The Fed is not our friend. By the way they are holding the nations gold against debt owed them.

FDIC is a joke. The gov is already broke. There is no way if enough banks go broke they will cover peoples money. The gov hasn't got it. When it gets to that point I doubt China will step in and loan us more money.

I think America is toast and it is not far off.

WND has a good video called "The MOney Changers" I would also recommend a book called "America's Financial Reckoning Day". We are already past the numbers where other countries have had currency collapse. There is an article on Drudge today about another big investor getting out of the dollar. When China, Japan and Arabs start dumping dollars we are finished. Last article I read said national debt was the equivalent of every man woman and child being 250K in debt. That would put average family 1 million in debt. I believe average national income is 30+K. Any hope of paying off that debt?


Tenore2-11:23 pm post
Wow, You said everything I feel regarding our once great country today.

I can't comprehend why so many today complain about how hard they have it today: driving new cars, talking on their cell phones, charging their lunch at McDonalds etc.

My parents survived the Depression, both from farm families (one had 10 siblings the other 14 !!)and taught their own 6 kids to take care of themselves even if it's working 2 or more jobs, not taking "givernment" handouts.

A Clinton presidency scares me to the core.
To all who are critizing this article, I'm sure, didn't read the entire thing or just want to bash Bush for everything wrong in this world.
More gov't is NOT the answer !

And????
talent scout writes: Wednesday, October, 24, 2007 11:47 PM
Hate to break it to you
Tenore2
------

GW Bush is as much a globalist as Klinton was"

*****
Is the word "globalist" suppose to scare me?

There is no proof that President Bush wants to give away our "national identity."

It might be helpful to define your terms.

BTW: What is the United Nations, and who was one of the prime advocates of this abomination?

I'll give you a clue: It wasn't President Bush!

I suggest that you might want to study the life and trials of Abraham Lincoln. I can show where nearly ever complaint issued against Lincoln are almost identical to those issued against Bush.

"The war is too long; too many men are being killed; we should sue for peace; we didn't join the army to fight for the black people so we are going to desert."

Check out Lincoln's last public address given just a few days before he was assinate.


Lincoln very seldom even read the vitriole that the press was constantly voicing. Why? (Think upon it!)

In my 76 years I have seen so many of our freedoms abridged, primarily begining with FDR. While I don't think he was totally wrong, he was totally wrong in his social policies.

Agin, I ask; what is your point? If you have one, it escapes me!



Pudel
Pudel Lover writes: Thursday, October, 25, 2007 12:32 AM
Tenore2-11:23 pm post
Wow, You said everything I feel regarding our once great country today.

I can't comprehend why so many today complain about how hard they have it today: driving new cars, talking on their cell phones, charging their lunch at McDonalds etc.

My parents survived the Depression, both from farm families (one had 10 siblings the other 14 !!)and taught their own 6 kids to take care of themselves even if it's working 2 or more jobs, not taking "givernment" handouts.

A Clinton presidency scares me to the core.
To all who are critizing this article, I'm sure, didn't read the entire thing or just want to bash Bush for everything wrong in this world.
More gov't is NOT the answer !

****

Thanks, I love this country; we are, however I fear, on a very slippery slope. If the KLINGON'S get another 8 years along with a democratic (there's nothing really democratic about the so-called democrats) congress, my 21 grandchildren will live a miserable existence. I do believe as did Lincoln, that the hand of God (I believe in God) is still in play, and that our ultimate destiny is in His hands.

My problem is that I feel some guilt that I never made as much noise about the power seeking politicians who have only their own self interest at ????? (I was going to say heart, but that assumes too much.)

You are probably young enough to make a difference. Go do it!


talent scout
"its his [Medved's] support of the SPP and NAU and insulting attitude towards anyone who questions the goals of the President in his agreements with Mexico and Canada."

-- Examples please? I don't remember what Medved said about the Security and Prosperity Partnership, but whenever someone brings up the North American Union (such as during the 'conspiracy theory' days on his radio show), he always ridicules the person for believing in it. Now, if he actually supported it, wouldn't he defend it?

What does any of this have to do with "How government expansion worsens hard times"?

Sam
I wasn't able to download it?

talent scout
"Just get government out of trade issues altogether, then we would have free trade."

-- As part of his firm small-government stance Medved has been calling for the elimination of the Dept of Commerce. OMG, is it possible that you actually agree with him?

Why hate Klinton what you love Bush for?


talent scout writes: , 2007 11:47 PM
Hate to break it to you
Tenore2


GW Bush is as much a globalist as Klinton was"
---------

Tenore2 writes: 12:39 AM
And????


Is the word "globalist" suppose to scare me?
--------------

ts:
Never thought it scary to use but what it represents should scare anyone who loves America.

---------
Tenore2 writes:
There is no proof that President Bush wants to give away our "national identity."

It might be helpful to define your terms.
-----------
ts:
You do not know what is meant by globalist?
He is giving away the country.
Have you not been paying attention?
Ports
Borders
Sea and Transnational policies he is working for.

--------
Tenore2 writes:
BTW: What is the United Nations, and who was one of the prime advocates of this abomination?

I'll give you a clue: It wasn't President Bush!
-----
ts:
Thanks for the info
------------
Tenore2 writes:
I suggest that you might want to study the life and trials of Abraham Lincoln. I can show where nearly ever complaint issued against Lincoln are almost identical to those issued against Bush.
----
ts:
Not the ones I am talking about
Lincoln fought to keep the Union, Bush is trying to destroy it for his globalist friends.
The Bankers and International Corporations.


Hard to believe
kingsXrulz writes: 1:05 AM
talent scout
"its his [Medved's] support of the SPP and NAU and insulting attitude towards anyone who questions the goals of the President in his agreements with Mexico and Canada."
--

kingsXrulz writes: 1:05 AM
Examples please?
----------
ts:
You are unaware of his attitude towards any person who questions the Presidents involvment with Mexico and the SPP and the CFR and Robert Pastor and Vicente Fox and open borders and Islamics guarding the ports and the LOST Treaty and.....on and on....
-------

kingsXrulz writes:

I don't remember what Medved said about the Security and Prosperity Partnership, but whenever someone brings up the North American Union (such as during the 'conspiracy theory' days on his radio show), he always ridicules the person for believing in it. Now, if he actually supported it, wouldn't he defend it?
-----------
ts:
Fighting the truth of the plans is support for it.

----------
kingsXrulz writes:
What does any of this have to do with "How government expansion worsens hard times"?
-------
ts:
It is government expansion it is creating hardship on many millions of Americans RIGHT NOW!

You got to be aware of the illegal immigration problem, right.
Or are you like Medved and deny its a problem?

More stonewalling

From the Bush Administration




The White House and State Department are refusing to answer key questions WND has asked about the $500 million military assistance program proposed for Mexico and $50 million proposed for Central America.

As WND reported Tuesday, President Bush sent to Congress this week an Iraq Supplemental Funding Request that included a proposal for $500 million in military assistance for Mexico and $50 million for Central America to help them fight the international drug war raging across our border with Mexico.

For the past two days, WND has made repeated calls to the White House and State Department, asking key questions by phone and email.

So far, no responses have been received.

Instead, the White House press office has begun referring all questions about the Mexico military aid package to the State Department.

........

Nor will the White House or State Department answer WND questions about why the Department of Transportation is continuing to allow Mexican trucks across the border, when the severity of the drug war requires U.S. military aid intervention.


http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58336

Another Medved Fantasy
I love Medved's fantasy lists that keep trying to prove things contrary to reality. For example, Medved claims government expansion hurts people. He also claims George Bush will go down in history as a great president.

Here's todays news on our spender in chief:

“He’s a big government guy,” said Stephen Slivinski, the director of budget studies at Cato Institute, a libertarian research group.

The numbers are clear, credible and conclusive, added David Keating, the executive director of the Club for Growth, a budget-watchdog group.

“He’s a big spender,” Keating said. “No question about it.”

Take almost any yardstick and Bush generally exceeds the spending of his predecessors.

When adjusted for inflation, discretionary spending — or budget items that Congress and the president can control, including defense and domestic programs, but not entitlements such as Social Security and Medicare — shot up at an average annual rate of 5.3 percent during Bush’s first six years, Slivinski calculates.

That tops the 4.6 percent annual rate Johnson logged during his 1963-69 presidency. By these standards, Ronald Reagan was a tightwad; discretionary spending grew by only 1.9 percent a year on his watch.

Discretionary spending went up in Bush's first term by 48.5 percent, not adjusted for inflation, more than twice as much as Bill Clinton did (21.6 percent) in two full terms, Slivinski reports.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/20767.html

Now given that, doesn't Medved's own thesis j'accuse the president and negate claims that Bush is good for the country?

I await Medved's next index of insanity, possibly something like "How The Uninsured Are Good For The Economy."

Hey Tonto
If Bush is going to give us away to Mexico, he better hurry; he only has 15 months left. Maybe your hero, if she is your hero, can save us all from this great conspiracy.

No wait, I just remembered..I did see somewhere that a junta of Bush, Cheney, etal, plan to suspend the 2008 election and declare a Bush dictatorship!

They already have all of the military nuts like Weasely Clark, (and shades of heaven, Gen McClellen [you know, Lincoln's betrayer]) lined up for military support.

Oh wait; McClellen is too tired to rise up!

But I'm sure that the caball will get ii all together to stop the Klingons from taking power.

My friend; and I consider all of God's children to be my friend, even the Clintons; but the conspiracy theories have been going on my entire 76 years; remember the John Birch Society.

I hope we don't end up with a "talent tonto" society.

Try to get some rest; you may even want to visit a "mental aid assistant" who could give you a sleeping pill. Then when you awake, the nightmare of Bush as dictator will be just that; a "nightmare."

I wish I could take you seriously, but I just can't!

KingsXrulz
Certainly, I’ll start by reminding you that FDR was dealing with domestic communism and Reagan was dealing with Communist nations. That alone should make it clear, but I’ll go further. The first quarter of the 20th century was filled with violent struggles. There were thousands of strikes, riots and more than a few insurrections. Behind almost all of them were either the communists or the socialists. Almost all resulted in violence and death. The fact that we had consistent running gun battles in this country between protesters and police and security forces shows the strength of the communists/socialist movement. FDR put an end to all that. We have had bloody race riots since then, but nothing has ever reached the scope of the early 20th century.

As for Reagan, he did accomplish much, but I don’t over value it. Communism just doesn’t work. It will always collapse over time. Of course, the actions we took made a difference, but Reagan was simply in the right place at the right time to garner the success.

As I said, people seem to need heroes and villains. That goes back to some of our earliest literature. But since all they get are men, we have these intellectual tussles over the past.

Mr. Medved KNOWS better but chooses to..
Mr. Medved...who DOES know better...his book on Presidential Advisors TALKS about the Power behind EQUALLY EVIL Woodrow Wilson Colonel House..who was the Internationalist handler of Wilson and steered the MARXIST legislation of Wilson into existance...CONTINUES to shill for the POWER of the Presidency-specifically THIS one(W).

W and his handlers agenda(NOT a secret) of ABSOLUTE EXECUTIVE POWER has to be enacted so as to carry out their INTERNATIONALIST agenda, which is not secret either.

W and his Signing Statements, TRILLIONS of $$$ in UNDECLARED INVASIONS AND OCCUPATIONS, and his SPP which is NOT a Treaty so as NOT to ratified by the Senate...

And like a broken clock Medved is correct on Roosevelt(alluding to FDRs endemic authoritarianism) and the continued charade of putting FDR on a pedestal.

BUT IS WRONG on the rest of the story... his refusal to carry his wellthoughtout and reasoned arguments AGAINST the socialist statist FDR and apply them to the Caesar-like profiligate W and his lackeys and agenda does strike me and anyone of reasonable ability as utter hypocracy.

Medved is either thrown in his lot with the Elite or is displaying a vast display of differential ignorance.

Mr. Medved’s good work against the FDR totem is VASTLY OUTWEIGHED ne CANCELLED by his continued shilling for W and the(W’s) march to a Unitary Executive BANKRUPT Empire.

talent scout
"You got to be aware of the illegal immigration problem, right[?] Or are you like Medved and deny its a problem?"

-- I live in Arizona. Two Phoenix police officers have been murdered this year by illegal aliens. My wife manages a dry-cleaner business that does all of the uniforms for our local US Border Patrol sub-station. The one time in my life when I was a crime victim I was robbed by a man who very well may have been an illegal. The one time in my life when I was in a serious car wreck the other party was an illegal who was DUI, fled the scene, and ultimately fled back across the border to avoid prosecution. The one time in my life when I had a loaded GUN pointed at me I was pulled over by a border patrol officer on a back road used by illegals, because the crappy car I was driving back then (this was in the 80's) matched the description of a car suspected to be transporting illegals. One of my best friends was a border patrol officer in the 90's. While working the border-crossing in Nogales one day, a woman bit his arm hard enough to break the skin and ran back across the border; Mexican authorities did nothing to stop her. From then on he had to be tested for AIDS on a regular basis.

Thank you for having the civility to ask a question rather than making an assumption. The answer to your first question is: YES, I am well aware of the illegal immigration problem. The answer to your second question is NO, I deny nothing ... and neither does Medved. Medved supported President Bush's immigration reform plan as a practical way of dealing with the problem; he never denied that the problem exists.

And neither do I. I've lived -- and continue to live -- with the problem everyday.

kingXrulz
Thanks for reading and commetting on my writing.

To answer your questions:

The homeless problem is a little more complicated, in my view, than declaring every person who offends our sensibilities legally incapacitated and forcibly placing them in a government institution.

Specially, since "mental illness" is a very controversial term even among professionals (read Thomas Szasz)and, since forced mental health treatment remains clinically controversial.

Before the community mental health movement people used to receive life sentences for things like suffering from epilepsy.

I do not support the ACLU notion that they have a 'right' to sleep on our (my)sidewalk either.

Significant advances in the treatment of person with mental illness were accomplished by private concerns including religious movements like the Quakers. In the US Benjamin Rush's moral management movement was absolutley private and had a discharge rate in the 70% range.

Why is it that even people who claim to be for smaller government would still be blind to the fact that the best things in our world happen without government involvement?

The main obstacles to better mental health management is the army of trial lawyers ready to stiffle any private initiative.

I would expect someone like Mebved to understand that what government really needs to do is to get the heck out of the way.

As for the aid to Africa the failure of foreign aid to effect any significant change to the poverty conditions in forein countries is well documented.

By principle I am against big government solutions because in my personal experience their only outcome is increased Socialism and bureaucracy. Be that in Africa or in LA South Central.

Take care,

Chairman Mao


Great article
As i was reading this i thought about an analogy about parenting.

You have parents who give everything to their children and never let their children go wanting.

On the other hand you have parents who realize that for your own good sometimes you must not get what you want for nothing.

When i was about 8 i really wanted a nintendo. My parents wouldn't buy me one. So what did i do? I went and mowed yards in the neighborhood until i had enough money to buy one.
Likewise from when i was young, i knew that my parents weren't going to pay for my college. What did i do? i studied hard and recieved scholarships and i worked hard throughout highschool and college to pay my own bills.

Now does this mean my parents didn't care about me. No. they knew the best way for me to succeed wasn't giving me everything on a silver spoon, but for me to learn early in life that hard work, responsibility, and determination were the keys to a successful and happy life.

Similar to my parents, i want a government who will help me when i'm really down and out, but is smart enough to realize that for the small dips in life, that picking yourself up is a much better system in the long run than lifting people up everytime they fall.

Right on medved!

Thank you, Michael
It is refreshing to read a REAL historian's reporting of facts. If this article could replace the chapters on FDR and the Depression in school books, kids might have a clue...if they've learned to read by the 11th grade, that is.

FDR's words on this subject
"the resources of the nation can be made to produce a far higher standard of living for the masses of the people if only government is intelligent and energetic in giving the right direction to economic life."

-- Key words: "if only government is intelligent". Staying out of the people's way and allowing EVERYONE to keep more of the money they make is the fairest method of ensuring a higher living standard.

"democratic government in this country can do all the things which common-sense people, seeing that picture as a whole, have the right to expect. I believe that these things can be done under the Constitution, without the surrender of a single one of the civil and religious liberties it was intended to safeguard."

-- Do we have the right to expect services that are not enumerated in the Constitution? How many? Some? Anything and everything we can imagine? How do liberal candidates who cite FDR as a role model feel about that last sentence as it relates to the Office of Faith-Based Initiatives or universal health care?

"The present government of the United States has never taken away and never will take away any liberty from any minority, unless it be a minority which so abuses its liberty as to do positive and definite harm to its neighbors constituting the majority. But the government of the United States refuses to forget that the Bill of Rights was put into the Constitution not only to protect minorities against intolerance of majorities, but to protect majorities against the enthronement of minorities."

-- That's from a 1937 speech, 5 years before Japanese internment camps. I'm not saying he was right; very few Japanese-Americans ever 'abused their liberty'. It's just curious that he saw a need for this option well before he actually implemented it. As for the second sentence, it sounds like he's advocating civil rights WITHOUT affirmative action, doesn't it?

ChairmanMao
"The homeless problem is a little more complicated, in my view, than declaring every person who offends our sensibilities legally incapacitated and forcibly placing them in a government institution."

-- Agreed. Will you agree that Michael Medved never EVER advocated doing that?

"Why is it that even people who claim to be for smaller government would still be blind to the fact that the best things in our world happen without government involvement?"

-- Smaller gov't doesn't mean no gov't at all. I think Medved is wondering about who will provide the needed care, who will pay for it, and who will enforce in-patient care for those who truly need it.

"The main obstacles to better mental health management is the army of trial lawyers ready to stiffle any private initiative."

-- I'm no fan of trial lawyers or the ACLU, but can you give examples of this?

"I would expect someone like Mebved to understand that what government really needs to do is to get the heck out of the way."

-- Two things here: 1) Get out of the way of whom? Please provide a list of, or links to, the private groups desiring to provide this service, AND explain how they would be funded. 2) I wouldn't ask if it had not occured in consecutive posts but, are you deliberately misspelling Medved's name?

"As for the aid to Africa the failure of foreign aid to effect any significant change to the poverty conditions in forein [sic] countries is well documented."

-- This isn't the same as food poverty in the US. In this country there is plenty of supply; the problem is with the ability (aided by food stamps) to pay for it. In Africa the problem is that in many areas of that continent there is little or no supply at all. Sometimes (SOMETIMES!) the only concern needs to be a humanitarian one.

kingsXrulz
en"force" inpatient care?

who en"forces" treatment for diabetes, or heart disease?

Do the Doctors who treat AIDS need a of police officer to round and restraint the reluctant "patients?"

I guess there is something very peculiar about this "illness." Aparently, people that suffer hearing voices, delussions and painful anxiety would rather live on the streets than submitt to the sort of treatment we have available in this country.

Do you know you have a better chance of recovering from mental illness in Africa than in the US?

Maybe your humanitarian concern for Africa is misplaced?

You should also research into the main obstacles to try new treatments. For example, recently CWA the trade union which represents psychiatric workers in Texas prevented the Texas legislation from closing a state school after a mentally ill person was murdered at Mehia.

CWA declared victory at saving those jobs.

Now compare the treatment at those facilities and any private facility.

I cannot understand how Republicans continue to fund Socialist service delivery systems and expect to grow and expand as a party?

Why do Republicans talk about the dynamism of companies as FedEx but continue to fund the USPS, love talk radio but fund NPR?

What needs to be done with homelessness is 1st to say that bums will always exist. Some people just abhor the estructure of societal living and find more satisfaction in giving up comfort for the pleasure of being absolutely unaccountable.

Second; make treatment responsive to people not to bureaucrats. Specifically to those receiving treatment. The function of Bureaucracy is to avoid disaster not to be creative in opening new territory. The reason why Americans created this great nation is because in the begining government was too weak, too distant and, too isolated to be able to do harm.

Can you imagine Lewis and Clarck having to listen an to Nacy Pelosi or, Charlie Rangel?

kingsXrulz writes:
Medved supported President Bush's immigration reform plan as a practical way of dealing with the problem
-------

That is what I mean.
That did not deal with the problem, it compounded the problem just as RR's amnesty did, it granted 3 million amnesty and now we have 30 million more.
Gw's plan would compound it proportionally.
I do not like Medved any longer for his trashing attitude over honest concerns, and blatant evidence of the SPP and NAU.

I do like some of his articles though, and some things he says I still agree with, but the man himself I do not like any longer.


Expansive Government is Harmful
Interesting but kind of long article. And much good discussion too.

I believe the basic premise that expansive government is harmful to the people. President Bush has failed to curb gov't spending and expansion. That is why I'm supporting Mike Huckabee for president. His plan to eliminate ALL individual and corporate income taxes and the IRS and replace them with a simple Fair Tax is what this country needs in so many ways. Just imagine no more filing every year! People are really catching on to Mike's overall message and are starting to support him in growing numbers.

http://www.mikehuckabee.com/

Mike has the best interests and concerns of ordinary Americans at heart and therefore he practices a refreshing style of Vertical Leadership which is a way of finding solutions that enable people to step up to do (and be) their best without gov't interference. Mike's small gov't conservatism is evident in the Fair Tax, but also in his solutions to the health care crisis, and in his proposal to make America energy independent before the end of his second term.

ChairmanMao
"Do the Doctors who treat AIDS need a of police officer to round and restraint the reluctant "patients?"

-- Severely mentally ill homeless people are lucid enough to seek treatment on their own? that once inside they won't ruin any progress they make by leaving prematurely? or that none of them have a high potential to hurt themselves or others?

"Do you know you have a better chance of recovering from mental illness in Africa than in the US?"

-- Do you know I don't believe that statement without verifiable data to back it up?

"Maybe your humanitarian concern for Africa is misplaced?"

-- No. Basic day-to-day survival is still the top priority of every human being.

"Some people just abhor the structure of societal living and find more satisfaction in giving up comfort for the pleasure of being absolutely unaccountable."

-- The ONLY way to live & be unaccountable to society is to become a hermit. Homeless people by and large ARE NOT hermits; in fact, they are the exact opposite. Rather than living in private spaces away from society, they live in public spaces in the heart of society.

As for their freedom to do so, and their right to be mentally ill and not get treatment ... the closest thing we have to full liberty in our society is the libertarian credo, right? "You have the right to do whatever you want, as long as what you do does not infringe on the rights of anyone else." Mentally ill homeless people do things (relieving themselves in public, begging, petty crime) that infringes on the rights of others. When the choices for dealing with them are: arrest, relocation to the edge of town and told not to come back, request that they go into counseling, or place them in a facility suited to help them -- I say the latter is the best solution for all.

Rep.Price Free Heathcare For All
Rep. Price:Free Healthcare For All?

Price co-sponsors SCHIP alternative

As Congressman Price describes his proposed health care plan in the Cherokee Ledger, it is a first step toward free healthcare for all. If the government starts paying for catastrophic healthcare (an idea that Price says his bill opens the door to), it is only a matter of time before it picks up the whole tab. Paying for preventive medicine is cheaper than paying for catastrophic results, thus governments will, in the future, start providing full coverage to save money.

I think Tom’s heart may be in the right place on this issue, but if we do not make people pay something how can we afford this? My solution of mandatory payment from for those who can afford it, and partial payment based on income for people who cannot, is tough medicine but is more realistic.

CL-The same day the U.S. House failed to override the president’s Oct. 3 veto on the bipartisan bill that would reauthorize the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), another piece of legislation was introduced Oct. 17 sponsored in part by a Cherokee legislator.

“If Georgia wanted to institute a program that provided for catastrophic insurance for all folks without health insurance, then they would be able to do that,” Price said.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/rep-price-free-hea thcare-for-all
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