Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Wednesday, June 06, 2007
Michael Medved :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Great Debate: Hillary vs. Hillary
by Michael Medved
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Contemporary candidates may draw scornful fire for their embarrassing public flip-flops but Hillary Clinton’s outright contradictions on the Iraq War represent a far more shameful and serious problem.

A so-called flip-flop reflects a change of mind and, if you’ve shifted position in a more liberal direction (like Al Gore and Dick Gephardt going from anti-abortion to pro-choice on abortion), then the mainstream press will even hail your switch as evidence of “growth.”

A contradiction, on the other hand, indicates confusion rather than change; a wretched failure to take a clear position rather than the adoption of an altered position; and an effort to pander to the public by covering both sides of a given issue rather than shifting decisively from one point of view to the other.

Applying this important distinction to the current Presidential campaign, Mitt Romney most certainly flip-flopped on abortion --- dropping his self-described “pro-choice” position of 1994, and declaring himself outspokenly “pro-life” some two years ago. By the same token, John Edwards dramatically flip-flopped on the war, now regretting his vote nearly five years ago to authorize military action in Iraq and currently favoring a quick cut-off of funding.

Hillary Clinton on the other hand hasn’t so much changed her position on Iraq as she’s managed to muddy it, striking directly contradictory poses depending on her audience or, perhaps, her mood.

On the one hand, her promise to end the war has become a staple of her speeches on the stump. She regularly promises to “bring the troops home” – a ringing declaration that almost always wins applause. At the Democratic debate in New Hampshire on June 4th, Wolf Blitzer of CNN asked her to identify her “top priority in the first 100 days” of her new administration.

“Well, if President Bush has not ended the war in Iraq, to bring our troops home,” she answered without hesitation. “That would be the very first thing I would do.”

Of course, the audience cheered at her clarity and determination. But how would they have reacted to a New York Times front page headline from less than two months earlier, proclaiming: “CLINTON SAYS SOME G.I.’S IN IRAQ WOULD REMAIN IF SHE TOOK OFFICE.”

In their March 15th description of a half-hour interview in Clinton’s Senate office, Michael R. Gordon and Patrick Healy reported that “Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton foresees a ‘remaining military as well as political mission’ in Iraq, and says that if elected president, she would keep a reduced military force there to fight Al Qaeda, deter Iranian aggression, protect the Kurds and possibly support the Iraqi military.”

The New York Senator sounded suspiciously like President Bush in declaring that US security would be seriously jeopardized if parts of Iraq turned into a failed state “that serves as a petri dish for insurgents and Al Qaeda. It is right in the heart of the oil region. It is directly in opposition to our interests, to the interests of regimes, to Israel’s interests…. Coalition capabilities, including force levels, resources and operations, remain an essential stabilizing element in Iraq.” Senator Clinton, according to the reporters, “declined to estimate the number of American troops she would keep in Iraq, saying she would draw on the advice of military officers.”

But she left little doubt in her interview that, very much like President Bush, she viewed a long-term US presence in Iraq indispensable, visualizing a continued force level sufficient “for our antiterrorism mission, for our northern support mission, for our ability to respond to the Iranians, and to continue to provide support, if called upon, for the Iraqis.”

In other words, when talking seriously to serious reporters about the situation in Iraq, she forgot all about her endlessly repeated slogan about “bringing the troops home,” and similarly dispensed with another popular line that turns up in nearly every Iowa or New Hampshire appearance: “If we in Congress don’t end this war before January 2009,” she unequivocally pledges, “as president, I will.”

Does providing enough troops to “continue to provide support, if called upon, for the Iraqis” honestly amount to “ending this war”?

Dr. Noah Feldman, law professor at NYU and Harvard, provides a sobering perspective on the Clinton contradictions. In an April 8th article in the New York Times Magazine, he notes that Democrats in both the House and the Senate overwhelmingly supported maintaining enough “forces in Iraq for the purpose of fighting terrorist organizations such as Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia” – directly echoing Senator Clinton’s line.

But Feldman, who helped the Iraqis draft the constitution that provided the basis for the current government, observes that “the ‘fight al Qaeda’ policy cannot work the way it is being promoted. It is not easy to attack Al Qaeda without taking on the larger Sunni insurgency….To be accomplished successfully and without unnecessarily endangering soldiers in the line of fire, the policy would require roughly as many troops in Iraq as we have now. The result would probably look a lot like the Bush policy. And it could take years to show success.”

Of course, the mainstream press prefers not to focus on the surprisingly close resemblance between the unpopular Bush approach and the vague alternatives occasionally suggested by campaigning Democrats. Senator Barack Obama has also declared that if elected president he “might” keep a “small number of troops” (whatever that means) in strategic positions in Iraq.

In the case of Senator Clinton, there’s such an obvious contradiction between her “bring the troops home” rhetoric and her simultaneous promises to keep substantial forces in-country as “an essential stabilizing element,” that the general failure to hold her to account represents a stunning demonstration of journalistic malfeasance.

Her apologists might claim that when she says “bring the troops home” she actually means “some troops,” not “all troops.” But this bears a close enough echo of long-ago debates about “what the meaning of the word is, is” to make the public, or any Clinton, feel queasy.

The simple truth remains inescapable:

One Hillary says she’ll “end the war” and “bring the troops home.”

The other Hillary says she’ll keep a powerful, potent presence in Iraq for the foreseeable future.

And one of these two women is, without question, shamelessly lying.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Michael Medved's daily syndicated radio talk show reaches one of the largest national audiences every weekday between 3 and 6 PM, Eastern Time. Michael Medved is the author of eleven books, including the bestsellers What Really Happened to the Class of '65?, Hollywood vs. America, Right Turns and, most recently, The Ten Big Lies About America.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to read Michael Medved's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
Please
Let's not make this election about Hillary.

Flippin' & Floppin!
I'm getting tired of these reporters and talking heads who keep pounding on Mitt Romney for his alledged "flip flopping.' I thought that he explained it very eloquently or if anyone missed it, go to mittromney.com or evangelicalsformitt.com to get a clearer view.

How many folks realize that Fred Thompson and Sam Brownback were ALSO pro-CHOICE from the mid-1900s but now they are pro-LIFE? No one ever challenges them or sticks the flip flopping label on them. Enough already!

Of course hillary will "end the war"...
BY CALLING IT SOMETHING ELSE!

C'mon folks, after eight years of a clinton co-presidency's weaving and bobbing y'all haven't learned how to anticipate their slick behavior?


knowknownoshki
Of what possible connection (or interest) is Abraham Lincoln's justified changeable conduct in the Civil War to do with Hillary Clinton's obviously troubling inability to stay on topic about her plans for the War in Iraq, something of obvious concern? I'm all for drawing logical connections in historical context, but please, at least, let's stay in the late 20th Century. And, by the way, to give a one sentence critique of the connection between losses in something as momentous as the Civil War and one of the two or three most revered Presidents is the height of twaddle. And, by the way, Lincoln won, didn't he? Must we go back and discuss the importance of the 100 years war now? It's early, maybe things will improve in later posts!

Bring the troops home
It seems to me that the fastest way to bring the soldiers home is to:WIN THE WAR.What could be simpler? Of course the only way to win it is to go all out fighting it and doing whatever it takes.

Nation Building
I do agree with much of the criticism of President Bush on spending,Iraq, immigration and in competency. Yet for Lawmakers like McCain, Brownback, Clinton and Edwards to all blame President Bush and not even read the National Intelligence Estimate, report which warned about all the problems and vote for the war is hypocritical! Also the same lawmakers keep blaming the war on bad intelligence when the CIA had it right while they did not even study the report!

I still cannot believe anyone would vote for Rudy after last night he made it clear that the cornerstone of our foreign policy is “NATION BUILDING”. Does anyone agree with Rudy on “NATION BUILDING”? Also could you vote for a candidate that sent soldiers to war without reading the INTELLIGENCE REPORT?

BTW Ron Paul was my hero for pointing out that “the strategy of preemptive war is our biggest moral dilemma” If lawmakers read the INTELLIGENCE REPORT they would understand the issue!

READ MORE

http://www.controlcongress.com


It's . . . Debatable
Michael, Michael . . . motorcycle! Stick with the movies, my man.

Last night, I produced the first serious analysis of how the debate went, and you can find it by clicking on my name above. I explain the "Huckabee Factor" and other elements.

I thought Tancredo went semi-whacko near the end, with his call to end "legal" immigration! Tom, this is a country of immigrants. Why I like Huckabee so much: he's a So. Baptist preacher and has a much different background from mine, but he has a sense of humor (he's also from Hope, Arkansas!) and he speaks with utter sincerity. I could care less what he thinks about evolution. His views about Jesus Christ being a real presence in our lives mirror my own view. In other words, even when I don't completely agree with him, I hear a human voice, one of concern and compassion, there, and I like it a lot.

Very subjective
When a republican changes his mind today and he's called a flip flopper, but if a democrat does it, like Hillbillary, then she has embarked upon "growth."

I guess after Kerry's debacles, the dems had to find a better choice of words to cushion the bleeding obvious.

Where is Kerry anyway? Have they put a muzzle on him? I do so enjoy his public gaffs that end up destroying his own party.

gf

If Comrade Rhodamova IS the nominee, the election WILL be about her, at least in part.

uwcharlie

Why stop with the Hundred Years' War, let's go back to the War of the Spanish Succession, or, even better, the Punic Wars? (I'm being facetious.)


Hitlery
She flip flops are everything depending on who is standing in front of her. I'm worried about the military if she gets elected...they hate her. She treated them so badly when she was first lady.

Steve
I gotta agree with Tancredo. He and Paul sound a little bitter. Huckabbe is a surprise! I don't think it's his time yet though.

Steve
That should read about not with on Tancredo.

I agree with Medved!
Hillary is as two-faced as they come. I don't even listen to her anymore because I don't believe a word she says. She's waaaay too tied to the establishment to ever have an honest thought.

Go Obama!

But how about Bush's flip-flop on Iran. He made it seem like talking to state sponsors of terror was out of the question. Now we're talking to Iran.

And what about his double-talk on the wiretapping issue. He says, in no uncertain terms, that when we talk about wiretaps, we're talking about getting a warrant. Nothing has changed. Then we find out that, well, yeah, they are tapping phones without getting a warrant.


Phylo out.

Robert
Can't you make your points without being condescending?

A Clinton Legacy
WJ Clinton perfected the sleazy art of poll-driven and applause-driven (some redundancy there) behavior. HR Clinton is just following clumsily in his footsteps.

Rudi vs. Rudi
Last night in the debate, Rudi said he was for making English the offical language of the united states.


But that's not how he felt when he was mayor of NYC.

From The New York Times on August 14, 1996 (via Nexis):

Brushing aside the strong objections of Hispanic groups, the Suffolk County Legislature approved a resolution today that would make English the county's official language...

The law would be the first of its kind in a New York county. Twenty-three states, 41 counties and 15 cities have passed similar measures, and a bill recognizing English as the official national language has been passed by the House of Representatives. A similar measure was defeated in Suffolk in 1989.

In New York City, Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani has consistently opposed such measures. Earlier this month, he remarked, "There's no reason to pass a bill like this except, maybe, to exclude people, insult people or offend people."


So which is it Rudi?

Steve
I didn't get a chance to see the debate last night. Did Tancredo actually call for an end to legal immigration?

Hillary is dangerously shrewd
She KNOWS she can get away with standing on both sides of any issue. Most people don't know what she said in the past and most people didn't watch the televised debate. The MSM won't hold her to account. AND her husband, Bill, got away with it for his entire public life.

She's not as polished as Bubba, but she's just as shrewd... scary.

Phylo, Rudi v Rudi, THANK YOU...
Your post was vacuous and boring (as usual) but THANK YOU for not using your usual obnoxious "tag line" at the end!


Robert
You don't know what "most of the anti immigration people" are really like. If you did you wouldn't classify them as racists.
If those of us who are against the Illegal Infiltrators were as racist as you claim, we would have been acting that way all our lives, instead of asking for the rule of law to be enforced now, which is all most of us ask.
Or is it OK for one group of people to enter the US without legal entry papers, and others to overstay visas and not return to their countries of origin? Is that OK with you?

not really contradictory
I'm not demo, but clinton's comments aren't really contradictory. She'll bring most of the troops home and leave some there. So what? Focus on Hillarycare and her tax and spend proclivities.

Wadd'ya mean fickle?
Remember this is the woman who wore the pants in the 8-year administration whose lynchpin of unalterable dogma was firmly embedded in the results of the latest public opinion poll.

Collin
collin writes:
not really contradictory:
She'll bring most of the troops home and leave some there. So what?

That is even scarier, because it increases the vulnerability of the troops exponentially!

As a recently retired soldier and the parent of 2 active duty soldiers, I can only hope that you are wrong and that she really is pandering to her audience as Michael points out. Don't forget, he has known her since college. Hopefully, he has a solid read on her personality.

An idea
I think TH should change it's name to Hillary Hall - that seems to be about the only thing anybody ever writes about.

I'm going to TalkingPointsMemo for some real news.

Robert
I gotta agree with you on Tancredo. My jaw hit the floor last night.

nds1963
Not everyone at Town Hall knows that Michael Medved knew Hillary when he was at Yale -- so naturally, if there's someone he once knew well, who was a friend of his back then, and now she's RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, writing about her would be a no-brainer. In his book "Right Turns", he describes Bill as "an Eddie Haskell-like figure". That one got a laugh out of me, because I for one can see the sleazy smarmy Bill buttering up all the "Mrs. Cleavers" out there, by saying "You look nice today, Mrs. Cleaver", with his fake sincerity.

Hillary on the other hand, doesn't pull off this smarmy sincerity, so I don't see how the electorate can vote for her. Sincerity doesn't come across when she's making a speech, let alone speaking to people one-on-one. I've always found her to be an ambitious, bitter, cold person, and I think that MOST married mothers such as I think the same.

What's a fip-flop?
Pretty clearly Mr Medved has muddied his argument by begiining with the premise that a flip-flop is a change of mind which could be accepted by a reasonable person with the explanation that "I changed my mind on this one".

No, that's called changing one's mind. A flip-flop is where one offers contradicting opinions without explanation, leading the reasonable person to conclude either that the differing opinions are to be explained by pandering to different audiences, or that the person simply does not know her own mind.

Neither flip-flops nor contradictions are OK. They both indicate either pandering, lying or ignorance.

Division of Labor
Apparently Hitlery handles The Lying and Bubba handle The Cheating and The Cowardice.
Same Old Clintons!

"the ugly face of racism"
There you go again, injecting "racism" into the immigration debate. I'm the son of a non-white, hispanic-named immigrant and I'm for slamming the borders shut to ILLEGAL immigration as well as ending retroactively the anchor baby law. You know what you can do with your ad hominem attacks.

RON PAUL WINS DEBATE VIA C-SPAN
I was watching C-Span and it was clear from the callers he won the debate. Do you think Ron Paul won last night?

Please Watch

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/ron-paul-wins-debate-via-c-span

american culture embraces change
Not all change is good. Just ask all those who oppose free trade because of its impact on US labor. And you could argue that bin Laden desperately wants change - he wants to change the middle east into his fantasy vision of the medieval caliphate.

While the conservative side of the immration debate risks being tarred as racist, throwing that word around just serves to undermine rational debate. And I thought America was also about rational debate.

I think it was Thomas Sowell in this space yesterday who said that the current immigration bill's supporters are not fostering public debate as they pretend that we are not offering amnesty, and then try to buy off conservatives by making the path to citizenship as difficult as possible. Does this not create a large legal underclass of workers with semi-permanent resident status?

anti bill
actually,
most of the hispanic americans in el paso are against this flood of illegal aliens and this bill. no one speaks of the gang influence that is even more prevelent now.
i grew up in el paso and saw this first hand. there were many illegal aliens on welfare, many received low cost HUD housing and paid with food stamps.
these people took advantage of the system and received more benefits than we did. we were lower middle class and did not qualify for any help. we had minimal health benefits from my dad's work and could not always go to the doctor when were sick. jefferson memorial hospital was setup to cater to the illegal aliens flocking to the US to have their anchor babies.
there are actual security issues associated with this illegal immigration and the push to legalize everyone that sneaks accross the border.

flip flop....
Michael Medved is a joke. Anyone who takes to heart anything this fake says is an idiot. He actually has the nerve to attack Hillary for flip flopping. Please...every politician is a flip flopper. That's how they get elected - telling the people what they want to hear and then changing their position to appease their political base. Every candidate for 08 in one way or the other has flip flopped one time or the other. Medved is a flip flopper as well....one time being a liberal, now a so called conservative. What Medved is is a detriment to the conservative republican base. Medved's reasoning for attacking Hillary is obvious - she is going to blow the candidates away in the election. There's no doubt about it. I am not a big Hillary fan - I am a registered republican, but I do know one thing. Hillary has a lot of respect among the american people. The other candidates can try to trash her all they want - she handles it with ease and explains her position. The problem with the Republicans is that they do not have a go to conservative rock star. McCain has no chance because of his stance on immigration. Rudy is too liberal and will not get support from the conservative christian base that helped Bush win 2000. Brownback, Thompson, Tancredo, Gilmore have no chance. Huckabee and Romney are probably the two best and that is not saying anything. I like their views and pledges, I take them to their heart, but there isn't a chance in hell they stand up to Hillary. Ron Paul has been my favorite - even though he is coming across as the most liberal - or just being honest in my view. Hunter will not last and has no pizazz to wow anyone. The republicans better get their act together, and I don't mean waiting for Fred Thompson to enter the primary. I don't see all the hype on this guy. Who knows what he stands for.

The republican abuse of power and corruption, the Bush administration blundering of the war in Iraq, and the illegal wiretapping and then lying to the american people are going to cost us republicans for a long time. When a bunch of democrats who can't even unite on the issues beat the pants off the mid term elections, that says something is seriously wrong with the republican base.

Robert
Well thanks for the cogent argument in favor of the immigration bill....!?

Tom - For the most part you are right on the money. It is embarrassing to be a Republican at this moment. And Medved's attacks on Hillary are too shrill. But the American people should expect politicians who can be leaders and not panderers. Its just hard to find a person that looks like a leader who can also be a winner.

Queen Hilly speaks with forked tongue!
What does anyone expect? Queen Hilly continues to reinvent herself every day. With the Liberal media, and crazy left wing blogs; she is seldom called on the carpet for her out right lies. I feel sorry for anyone that is gullable enough to vote for her. I really feel sorry for America if she wins the election.

RR

Tom
Please don’t lie and call yourself a Republican. To be a Republican, you have to be right of center on at least SOME issues. NOTHING you said can be construed as a Republican value…You also said that “Bush lied to the American people”—a statement that is an odious left-wing lie in of off itself—and you said that you’re “not a big fan of Hillary”, which implies that you’re at worst a “small fan” of Hillary and at best not utterly repulsed by her socialist agenda and compulsive lying. Either scenario exposes your leftist leanings.

Konop:

Did YOU read the NIE? What’s that? Oh, you didn’t. You just ASSUMED that because the Democratic activist Wolf Blitzer posed the question it must mean that the NIE somehow debunked the claims made by the Bush Administration? Here’s an eye opener for you fella:

From the 2002 NIE

“Iraq’s Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction
We judge that Iraq has continued its weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs in defiance of UN resolutions and restrictions. Baghdad has chemical and biological weapons as well as missiles with ranges in excess of UN restrictions; if left unchecked, it probably will have a nuclear weapon during this decade. (See INR alternative view at the end of these Key Judgments.)
We judge that we are seeing only a portion of Iraq’s WMD efforts, owing to Baghdad’s vigorous denial and deception efforts. Revelations after the Gulf war starkly demonstrate the extensive efforts undertaken by Iraq to deny information. We lack specific information on many key aspects of Iraq’s WMD programs.
Since inspections ended in 1998, Iraq has maintained its chemical weapons effort, energized its missile program, and invested more heavily in biological weapons; in the view of most agencies, Baghdad is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program.
• Iraq’s growing ability to sell oil illicitly increases Baghdad’s capabilities to finance WMD programs; annual earnings in cash and goods have more than quadrupled, from $580 million in 1998 to about $3 billion this year.
• Iraq has largely rebuilt missile and biological weapons facilities damaged during Operation Desert Fox and has expanded its chemical and biological infrastructure under the cover of civilian production.
• Baghdad has exceeded UN range limits of 150 km with its ballistic missiles and is working with unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), which allow for a more lethal means to deliver biological and, less likely, chemical warfare agents.
• Although we assess that Saddam does not yet have nuclear weapons or sufficient material to make any, he remains intent on acquiring them. Most agencies assess that Baghdad started reconstituting its nuclear program about the time that UNSCOM inspectors departed—December 1998.
How quickly Iraq will obtain its first nuclear weapon depends on when it acquires sufficient weapons-grade fissile material.
• If Baghdad acquires sufficient fissile material from abroad it could make a nuclear weapon within several months to a year. {p.2}
• Without such material from abroad, Iraq probably would not be able to make a weapon until 2007 to 2009, owing to inexperience in building and operating centrifuge facilities to produce highly enriched uranium and challenges in procuring the necessary equipment and expertise.
–Most agencies believe that Saddam’s personal interest in and Iraq’s aggressive attempts to obtain high-strength aluminum tubes for centrifuge rotors—as well as Iraq’s attempts to acquire magnets, high-speed balancing machines, and machine tools—provide compelling evidence that Saddam is reconstituting a uranium enrichment effort for Baghdad’s nuclear weapons program. (DOE agrees that reconstitution of the nuclear program is underway but assesses that the tubes probably are not part of the program.)
–Iraq’s efforts to re-establish and enhance its cadre of weapons personnel as well as activities at several suspect nuclear sites further indicate that reconstitution is underway.
–All agencies agree that about 25,000 centrifuges based on tubes of the size Iraq is trying to acquire would be capable of producing approximately two weapons’ worth of highly enriched uranium per year.
• In a much less lively scenario, Baghdad could make enough fissile material for a nuclear weapon by 2005 to 2007 if it obtains suitable centrifuge tubes this year and has all the other materials and technological expertise necessary to build production-scale uranium enrichment facilities.
We assess that Baghdad has begun renewed production of mustard, sarin, GF (cyclosarin), and VX; its capability probably is more limited now than it was at the time of the Gulf war, although VX production and agent storage life probably have been improved.
• An array of clandestine reporting reveals that Baghdad has procured covertly the types and quantities of chemicals and equipment sufficient to allow limited CW agent production hidden within Iraq’s legitimate chemical industry.
• Although we have little specific information on Iraq’s CW stockpile, Saddam probably has stocked at least 100 metric tons (MT) and possibly as much as 500 MT of CW agents—much of it added in the last year.
• The Iraqis have experience in manufacturing CW bombs, artillery rockets, and projectiles. We assess that that they possess CW bulk fills for SRBM warheads, including for a limited number of covertly stored Scuds, possibly a few with extended ranges.
We judge that all key aspects—R&D, production, and weaponization—of Iraq’s offensive BW program are active and that most elements are larger and more advanced than they were before the Gulf war.
• We judge Iraq has some lethal and incapacitating BW agents and is capable of quickly producing and weaponizing a variety of such agents, including anthrax, for delivery by bombs, missiles, aerial sprayers, and covert operatives. {p.3}
–Chances are even that smallpox is part of Iraq’s offensive BW program.
–Baghdad probably has developed genetically engineered BW agents.
• Baghdad has established a large-scale, redundant, and concealed BW agent production capability.
–Baghdad has mobile facilities for producing bacterial and toxin BW agents; these facilities can evade detection and are highly survivable. Within three to six months * these units probably could produce an amount of agent equal to the total that Iraq produced in the years prior to the Gulf war.

* (Corrected per Errata sheet issued in October 2002)
Iraq maintains a small missile force and several development programs, including for a UAV probably intended to deliver biological warfare agent.
• Gaps in Iraqi accounting to UNSCOM suggest that Saddam retains a covert force of up to a few dozen Scud-variant SRBMs with ranges of 650 to 900 km.
• Iraq is deploying its new al-Samoud and Ababil-100 SRBMs, which are capable of flying beyond the UN-authorized 150-km range limit; Iraq has tested an al-Samoud variant beyond 150 km—perhaps as far as 300 km.
• Baghdad’s UAVs could threaten Iraq’s neighbors, US forces in the Persian Gulf, and if brought close to, or into, the United States, the US Homeland.
–An Iraqi UAV procurement network attempted to procure commercially available route planning software and an associated topographic database that would be able to support targeting of the United States, according to analysis of special intelligence.
–The Director, Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance, US Air Force, does not agree that Iraq is developing UAVs primarily intended to be delivery platforms for chemical and biological warfare (CBW) agents. The small size of Iraq’s new UAV strongly suggests a primary role of reconnaissance, although CBW delivery is an inherent capability.
• Iraq is developing medium-range ballistic missile capabilities, largely through foreign assistance in building specialized facilities, including a test stand for engines more powerful than those in its current missile force.
We have low confidence in our ability to assess when Saddam would use WMD.
• Saddam could decide to use chemical and biological warfare (CBW) preemptively against US forces, friends, and allies in the region in an attempt to disrupt US war preparations and undermine the political will of the Coalition. {p.4}
• Saddam might use CBW after an initial advance into Iraqi territory, but early use of WMD could foreclose diplomatic options for stalling the US advance.
• He probably would use CBW when he perceived he irretrievably had lost control of the military and security situation, but we are unlikely to know when Saddam reaches that point.
• We judge that Saddam would be more likely to use chemical weapons than biological weapons on the battlefield.
• Saddam historically has maintained tight control over the use of WMD; however, he probably has provided contingency instructions to his commanders to use CBW in specific circumstances.
Baghdad for now appears to be drawing a line short of conducting terrorist attacks with conventional or CBW against the United States, fearing that exposure of Iraqi involvement would provide Washington a stronger cause for making war.
Iraq probably would attempt clandestine attacks against the US Homeland if Baghdad feared an attack that threatened the survival of the regime were imminent or unavoidable, or possibly for revenge. Such attacks—more likely with biological than chemical agents—probably would be carried out by special forces or intelligence operatives.
• The Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) probably has been, directed to conduct clandestine attacks against US and Allied interests in the Middle East in the event the United States takes action against Iraq. The IIS probably would be the primary means by which Iraq would attempt to conduct any CBW attacks on the US Homeland, although we have no specific intelligence information that Saddam’s regime has directed attacks against US territory.
Saddam, if sufficiently desperate, might decide that only an organization such as al-Qa'ida—with worldwide reach and extensive terrorist infrastructure, and already engaged in a life-or-death struggle against the United States—could perpetrate the type of terrorist attack that he would hope to conduct.
• In such circumstances, he might decide that the extreme step of assisting the Islamist terrorists in conducting a CBW attack against the United States would be his last chance to exact vengeance by taking a large number of victims with him.”

Now, there was an alternate view by the Assistant Secretary of State for Intelligence cited in the NIE that questions some of the above claims. However, it was the MINORITY view, and to argue that Congress should have heeded the minority view over the overall consensus of the intelligence community is buffoonish.


Ron Paul
Tom, did you really call Ron Paul a liberal?

Ahhahahaahahhahah!

Ron Paul is a LIBERTARIAN--i.e., the antithesis of the modern liberal. He believes that ALL federal programs that are unrelated to defense and to the post office should be abolished.

He is also an isolationist conservative--a brand of conservatism that was quite popular between the World Wars, but that significantly receded in prominance and credibility after WWII. He--like Pat Buchanon and other isolationist cretins--think that if the United States just exit the world stage and not get entangled in any war or peace op, we would never be attacked and everything would be honky dory. It is a painfully ignorant view that ignores history and reality.

I noticed
today that the libtards on all of the threads are foaming at the mouth and have really thrown out any cohesiveness they have had in the past. Not one intelligent argument. Could it be that Daily KOS is on overload or are we really getting to you? Try Democratic Underground or Huffington Post or are they too dumb for you too?

eddred
Now I am laughing out loud. almost blew coffee out of my nose! Your just giving typical libtard responses without any thought at all. Medved is of the Jewish faith...devoutly! Stossel is libertarian and has found that liberals are the most intolerant of the lot. Your post proves him right.

Thrasybulus is right.
Your arguments don't make sense. After reading posts by you, PeterE, and Tom, I'm embarassed to be a Republican, too. Thrasybulus was right to call ya'll out on the carpet. By the way, you wrote about miscegenation and Jim Crow laws. Weren't these put into place in the South after Reconstruction by DEMOCRATS?

Robert
Wow...I'm not sure I have the patience to thoroughly debunk all of your idiotic ramblings.

Do you really think that to be right of center 150 years ago meant you were for slavery?

I realize that the right/left divide is ambiguous and capricious. For example, the notion that Hitler was far right and Stalin was far left is ludicrous because it belies the fact that both dictators were SOCILISTS (i.e. statists). In other words, they shared an underlying philosophy. They were not on the opposite sides of the political spectrum as the right/left misnomer implies.

However, I think EVERY intelligent person understands the distinction between right and left in the modern political context.

To be right of center is to believe in limited government, free markets and a strong national defense. Thus, Goldwater and Reagan were right of center.

To be left of center is to believe in economic and social centrilization, a vast welfare state, stringent federal regulations of commerce and trade, and a timid military posture. Thus, Jimmy Carter and ohn Edwards are left of center.

Any questions?

Yet to be explained
It is yet to be explained why this woman is even a serious candidate for President.

She doesn't have a single significant accomplishment, other than staying out of jail, that distinguishes her.

Previous posters have already said it, but it bears repeating. This shrew will say whatever the latest media-driven poll tells her will gain her the most votes or lose her the least.

She knows that if she runs as who she truly is, an egomaniacal communist control freak, she has no chance.

Robert
In previous posts, I read a lot about flip-flopping.

So, when Ronald Reagan changed from being a Democrat to a Republican did that make him a flip-flopper? Also, when Barry Goldwater changed his mind about certain social issues, did that make him a flip-flopper? When Jesus Christ challenged Jewish orthodoxy to lay the foundations of Christianity was He flip-flopping?

The larger question then is: "Isn't there a big difference between changing one's mind and flip-flopping? Just wondering.

Robert INCREDIBLY says thefollowing:
"Conservatism is not a set of viewpoints...it is a method by which issues are solved. And that is how Mr. Reagan and Mr. Goldwater would describe it."

Really??!!

I mean, are you serious? Have you READ the "Conscience of a Conservative", "Road to Serfdom", anything by Ayn Rand, etc?

Have you read transcripts of Reagan's speeches?

Modern conservatism is an ideology that holds certain VALUES SACRED. The most important of which are limited government, free-market capitalism, and a strong national security.

Your last post reveals a woeful misunderstanding of conservatism.

Of course conservatives want to leave most political desisions to local and state legislatures, but that preference is merely a symptom of holding the VALUE of limited government PARAMOUNT.

Knowknowshki
President Lincoln publically stated several times (ca. 1862) that were it to to help preserve The Union, he would free all of the slaves, some of the slaves or none of the slaves. Lincoln's Emancipation Proclimation (I would wager you have not read it) of 1862 was a politcal effort intended to make it more difficult for the Europeans to recognize the CSA. (cf. The Civil War, Vol. I, Shelby Foote).

good point Professor
I also like how knowknowshki blames Lincoln for the deaths of 700,000 men who "died because of his flip-flops". Is he saying that there shouldn't have been a civil war? I think there are a lot of African Americans who would disagree with that, as well as anyone else who apposes slavery (i.e. most freedom loving Americans).

Robert
Yes Ike was a Republican, a moderate Republican. He was not an economic libertarian. The Republican nominee does not necessarily represent the conservative movement.

The fact that you reject the notion that conservatism MUST adhere to the classic liberal principles of limited government and laissez-faire capitalism confirms your ignorance on the issue. Yes, there are disagreements among conservatives as to where to precisely draw the line of federal intervention , but the underlying doctrines of limiting entitlements, reducing regulations, and maximizing personal choice are immutable across the entire conservative spectrum. For example, ALL true conservatives would like to abolish the Department of Education.

You do NOT understand conservatism.

As for Bush v. Gore, it was Gore who brought the original lawsuits. After having been laughed out of the courtroom for trying to defecate on the Constitution by TWO Florida Courts, the left-wing Florida Supreme Court ruled in his favor. Bush appealed to The Supreme Court and the Court upheld justice.

Help, I got lost!!
So was Hillary for bringing the troops home before she was against it? or was she against it before she was for it?

Partisan
Your article is simply a partisan attack against Hilary. All politicians lie, or are you naive enough to believe otherwise? The fact is, the Bush administration screwed up the Iraq war from the get go. They compounded the huge mistake of preemption by more mistakes followed by even more mistakes, one following the other, making a bad situation terrible. He's got our men and women in an untenable situation. You don't keep as your coach a coach who's record in the last 4 years is about 1-15. You fire his butt.
Anybody elected in 2008 will follow the ISG plan, as Bush should have done when it first came out. One problem with the Republicans being Potus in 2009 is the fact that they're scared. The whole party is afraid. I have to remind the right what two great presidents in the past have said: "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." So the Republicans need to get a handle on their fear, which they tend to also put onto the public.
Please Republicans, keep that in mind. Second, The Republicans don't have a very good record of running wars. They fought Grenada and Panama, and had the last 6 years of the Vietnam war under Nixon. They went into Iraq, but didn't take out Saddam when they had enough troops. So next they try to take out Saddam without enough troops. This is not behavior you want in your CIC, ever.
This CIC record of Republicans is very poor, especially when contrasted with the Democrats. The Democrats beat the mighty German Wehrmacht and the mighty Imperial Army of Japan. They stared down Stalin over West Berlin and Kruschev over Cuba. (I ask you to imagine what Bush would have done in Oct 1962 - it makes me shudder) They beat back the NKs and the Chinese, and put into place the policy that won the cold war, the policy of containment of communism. They protected America in the 20th century the only times our sovereignty was truly threatened. So no, having another Republican as CIC is NOT the way to go. We need a Democrat as CIC, because they're not as afraid as the right, and are much more intelligent when it comes to fighting wars.

Robert
You should not speak when you do not know what your talking about. It was the right of center Evangelical Christians that ended slavery and passed the civil rights legislation.

Robert
I reccommend for you the Encyclopedia of Conservatism. Your omitting parts. Remember parties ebb and flow and evolve.

HA!
Hillary’s Word…Is Of Little Value

She is a fraud and accepts funds from anyone and anybody...even from FOREIGN "contributors"; an illegal act.

But that's OK. She is a democrat.

http://stophernow.wordpress.com/2007/06/06/hillarys-wordis-of-little-value/

An what of her "other illegal" activities?

http://stophernow.wordpress.com/2007/06/06/who-are-hillarys-secret-contributors/

http://www.hillcap.org

But that's OK. She is a democrat.

Democrats and wars
Yankee - the problem is that Democrats seem to have disavowed war as a political strategy. In response to Bush's many srew-ups, all they offer is more talking. They have become the anti-war party. I notice that you could not include Mr Clinton in your list of great Democrat war Presidents... whose record includes a poorly thought Kosovo strategy and sporadic and strategically useless attacks on Al Qaeda.

thrasybulus
Saddam had biological weapons couresy of President Reagan. Now we know whom determines membership to the GOP, and where their "facts" come from. Wow, your like Superman, except without all that speed, power and truthy sutff.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.