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Wednesday, June 10, 2009
Michael Gerson :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama and Holocaust Denial
by Michael Gerson
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WASHINGTON -- It is President Obama's defining rhetorical strategy. For every contending thesis and antithesis -- Islam versus the West, Iran versus America, Palestinians versus Israel -- he is the synthesis. All sides possess a shiny shard of the truth. Obama assembles the mosaic.

*** Special Offer ***

Discounting for gush and swoon, Newsweek's Evan Thomas' reaction to the Cairo speech was revealing: "I mean, in a way, Obama's standing above the country, above -- above the world, he's sort of God." Here is an American president so Olympian in his perspective that he is "above the country." Obama seldom chooses to be a participant in ideological struggles. He aspires to be history's referee.

There was, however, a notable exception to this approach during his recent overseas tour. In Obama's rhetorical universe of mist and fog, divided between gray and deeper gray, he drew one vivid line. Holocaust denial, he said, is "baseless," "ignorant" and "hateful." He talked about the "evil" of genocide, repudiated "lies about our history" and challenged Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to visit Buchenwald.

Obama's intensity and clarity on this issue were unexpected -- and needed. Holocaust denial has long been a staple of Middle Eastern anti-Semitism. But it has grown more pervasive since the 1990s -- not merely due to the manias of Ahmadinejad but in service to a broader strategy.

The political purpose of Middle Eastern Holocaust denial is to delegitimize the state of Israel. Since Israel, in this view, was created by the West out of Holocaust guilt, disproving the Holocaust removes the reason for Israel's existence. "The entire Jewish state," printed one Jordanian newspaper, "is built on the great Holocaust lie." Iran's minister of foreign affairs, Manouchehr Mottaki, argues that if "the official version of the Holocaust is called into question," then "the nature and identity of Israel" must also be questioned.

This conception of Israel's history is itself a distortion. The Holocaust is important to Israeli identity; it is not identical to Israeli identity. Zionism existed well before the European genocide. The ties between Jews and the land of Israel reach back for millennia. Israel does not exist merely because of Holocaust guilt. It exists because of its own tenacity, sense of purpose, and national success.

But the prevalence of this conspiratorial view in the Middle East demonstrates the challenges Obama will face in his role as arbiter in chief. Obama's Cairo speech, for example, rooted Iranian resentments in Western predation -- a reaction to a history of coups and colonialism. But Iranian leaders, it is clear, are also captured by the irrational politics of anti-Semitism. Former Iranian President Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani once claimed that his personal investigations had led him to believe that "Hitler had only killed 20,000 Jews and not 6 million." Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, argues: "There is evidence which shows that Zionists had close relations with German Nazis and exaggerated statistics on Jewish killings. There is even evidence on hand that a large number of non-Jewish hooligans and thugs of Eastern Europe were forced to emigrate to Palestine as Jews."

Many Palestinians share these views. There are a number of serious, pragmatic Palestinian leaders. But Palestinian radio and television have often recycled Holocaust skepticism. A recent poll of Arab citizens of Israel found that 40 percent deny that the Holocaust occurred. And Hamas (which Obama said in Cairo may "play a role in fulfilling Palestinian aspirations") has referred to "the so-called Holocaust, which is an alleged and invented story with no basis." One Hamas leader in Gaza has claimed "the Zionists were behind the Nazis' murder of many Jews" with the goal of forcing immigration to Palestine. "When we compare the Zionists to the Nazis," he said, "we insult the Nazis."

President Obama is correct to call out such "lies," which are not only morally offensive but also debilitating to those who perpetrate them. The politics of conspiracy and victimhood makes it infinitely more difficult to confront the real sources of social, economic and political dysfunction in the broader Middle East.

But the pervasiveness of Holocaust denial also points to a flaw in Obama's rhetorical and diplomatic approach. Perhaps one side of these debates is motivated not only by grievances, but also by hatreds. Perhaps those hatreds are unappeasable by concessions from Israel or the West. Perhaps the assumption of rationality and splittable differences, in some cases, is mistaken. Perhaps some don't merely wish to deny the Holocaust but to finish it.

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About The Author
Michael Gerson writes a twice-weekly column for The Post on issues that include politics, global health, development, religion and foreign policy. Michael Gerson is the author of the book "Heroic Conservatism" and a contributor to Newsweek magazine.
 
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Gerson...



Gerson,

did you take a special class

that teaches one to talk circles about a topic

without saying anything of note or importance?

Holocaust denial
Gerson makes some good points, and, I think it goes along with the idea that they think 9/11 was a Jewish plot. As for Iran though, things are changing dramatically. Ahmadinjad is way behind in the coming election and there's this..

'Iran Holocaust drama is a big hit'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7119474.stm

and this story

"Abdol Hossein Sardari didn’t look like a hero. But when Paris fell to Hitler in June 1940, the 30-year-old Muslim—a dapper man with a receding hairline—took it upon himself to save Jews trapped inside Nazi-occupied France. Sardari, a junior official at the Iranian Embassy, had been left behind to look after the building when the Iranian ambassador and his staff abandoned Paris to establish residence in Vichy, the new home of France’s pro-Nazi government. Once the Nazis began rounding up Jews, Sardari, without authorization from his government, made liberal use of the embassy’s supply of blank Iranian passports to assign new, non-Jewish identities to those in need, creating his own version of Schindler’s list."

http://www.momentmag.com/Exclusive/2006/2006-12/200612-Iran Feature.html

absurdities, atrocities
If people have made a hateful falsehood an article of their faith, how can they be made to see the truth? The Nazis documented their own atrocities because they took perverse pride in them. The victims' relatives and friends also documented them because they did not want the world to forget.

But such documentation is dismissed out of hand by those who have a huge emotional stake in demonizing Israel, the Jews, and the US.

Nazis believed absurdities and committed atrocities. So do modern Islamists. Voltaire, who suggested a causal relationship between such beliefs and such acts was not merely a great thinker and satirist of his time; he was in many ways a prophet for ours.

President Ahmadinejad
Obama challenged Ahmadinejad to visit Buchenwald. After the war there were stories and witnesses that claimed that Buchenwald had gas chambers . These stories and witnesses just faded away in 1960 when Yad Vashem announced that there were no gassings in the camps in the Reich proper. Therefore Buchenwald was changed to a labor camp and not a "death camp" . this is also true for Dachau, Bergen-Belsen, Ravesnbreuck, etc... The focus of the "holocaust" story shifted to the camps in Poland (Auscwitz) .

Obama's challenge to Ahmadinejad
A couple of years ago Blair made a similair challenge to President Ahmadinjad though presumably Blair meant that Ahmadinajd should go to Auschwitz and see the "gas chambers".
Ahmadinajd responded that he will and tha he will bring with him a team of scientists !
Silence for two days and then on the third day the director of the Auschwitz states that anyone suspected of visiting Auschwitz with the intenet of challenging the officail version will not be let in !

Hitler supported the zionist movement !
Yes, Hitler too agreed that the euroepan Jews should have a land of their own. However, he did not agree with the resettlement of european Jews to Mandatory Palestine because that land had a large Palestinian Arab population . the German government proposed Madagascar as a possible homeland. The zionists spread the slogan that Palestine was a land without a people and that they were a people without a land. In 1910 , there were about 50,000 Jews in Palestine and about 750,000 Palestinian Arabs.

oBUMa Misses The Point
The Great-Fabricator & Manipulator misses the point once again. Our Charlatan-In-Chief thinks that with what he believes to be his superior intellect, he can talk his Muslim brothers out of their intent to destroy Israel. Only the truly naive believe that... or the truly evil, who have an entirely different agenda. I give more credence to the latter than the former, as our pRESIDENT in the Offal Office has every appearance of having entered as a stealth Muslim, quickly beginning to shed the disguise through both his words and his actions.

Strangely, he missed the point (again) when all he had to do was look at the top of his head.

Gerson,
you use too many words to say too little.


pointless
Obama's comments on Holocaust denial were to keep the Jewish voters (the 78% who supported him) in America from turning against him. His words are meaningless when he speaks from the other side of his mouth to attack Israel it's Jewish population in support of Palestinian terrorist.

Obama the Muslim
If you haven't heard it by now, Obama is a non-practicing Muslim AND Christian, hell bent on destroying America, but saving the world! And he is a certifiable idiot...I have the proof of authenticity for that statement! http://theblacksphere.blogspot.com/2009/06/obamas-inner-mu slim.html

A few bits
The first paragraph is very insightful. Although it's by no means complete, it's the most concise and accurate assessment of O'Blahblah that I've seen in print in quite a while.

The second paragraph is good, and it could easily have been expanded into a separate essay. I can't imagine any member of the fourth estate ever, in a million years, at gunpoint, comparing Ronald Reagan to God. (Nor can I imagine any conservative media figure comparing _any_ human being to God.) All journalists and patriots should be appalled. Alas, neither group includes the management of _Newsweek_. Further, King Tut's Descendant already has a monumental ego. After a few more years of such disgusting displays, he may come to believe that he is a god.

The rest of the column is interesting, though it has little to do with the introduction. Evidently Mr. Gerson takes president's words on Holocaust denial at face value. They were unexpectedly vigorous, but they were also undoubtedly crafted to keep American Jewish voters on the reservation without starting riots on the Arab Street.

Moreover, the column offers one notable clinker: "There are a number of serious, pragmatic Palestinian leaders." I wish that Mr. Gerson had listed a few, for I can't name one.

MichelleO
You expect to be crowned Queen of America when Dumbo is crowned King. It won’t happen!!! Dumbo has declared that he is a Qaran-qouting Muslim. Muslims consider human females lower than farm animals.

On the day you expect to be crowned, you will be strapped to a table, undergoing FGM. You will get to listen to the screams, as it is done to your daughters. You will find all your and your daughters’ expensive designer dresses replaced with the black rags of the Taliban.

Each of Dumbo’s three new wives will be younger than the previous one. As the first wife, you would expect to have the dominant position over the others; but, as the wife who didn’t have a son to carry on the tradition of FGM, you will be in last place as the Old and Barren Wife. Is it true under Muslim law, that males cannot be punished for harming or killing females? Is killing a barren wife, to make room for a new wife, an honor killing?

Plan your escape now. Select a country without a Muslim population and without an extradition treaty. Send every cent there that you can, putting it into a secret account. Get multiple passports for each of you and your daughters, showing different names, appearances, and sexes, and always have your passports hidden on your person. Get yourself and your daughters each a large shoulder bag, in which you can keep some personal items to take along, that you can use as a purse, for when you make your break.

Keep a close watch on what Dumbo does, what he says, and with whom he speaks, to know when to escape. You don’t know how much time you have left. When you go, do not go directly to your place of refuge. Make several stops in other countries on the way, changing appearances and passports at each stop.


Holocaust
The daily Israel/Holocaust story from TOWNHALL.

What are the odds?

We owe Muslims nothing
We supported the Afghanistan's people in their fight against the USSR invasion throughout the 80s.

In 1997, we saved c. 1.4 million Muslim Serbs from genocide.

In the Middle East, America rescued 21,000,000 Kuwaitis in 1991, and 22,000,000 Afghanistans in 2003 and 24,000,000 Iraqis in 2003.

We have poured trillions into Saudi Arabia for oil, virtually support Egypt, and spend millions on the Palestinians.

When the 2005 tsunami hit Indonesia (the world's actual largest Muslim nation) and the Pacific Ocean, the ships and manpower that delivered aid and rescue were US military.

The Saudis threw out of base after we saved them from Saddam twice, 1991 and 2003. Iran invaded our territory, the embassy, and kidnapped its personnel for a year, 1979. We have been attacked in Lebanon, Yemen, Kenya, Tanzania, Iraq, Afghanistan, and had Americans killed on the Achilles Lauro and at the WTC and the Pentagon.

Name one *gift* or acknowledgement (not algebra) the Muslims have given the United States of America.

To Renny
You are half-right.

We had received nothing from Islam.

The part about us coming to the aid of Kuwait, Iraq and Afghanistan and supporting Eqypt is absurd.

If the U.S. did such a wonderful thing in the Middle East why doesn't Bush visit that area since he is no longer President?

Bush "liberated" them so let him go there and bask in their adulation.

Wow
I see the irrational hatred of Obama is still alive and kicking over here at townhall. I wish you people had some sense of how the reality based world views such hate-filled comments. Ronald Reagan would be ashamed to be associated with people like you. He knew the importance of treating his political enemies with decency and respect.

Try getting your news from actual news sources some time. World Nut Daily, as Medved calls it, and talk radio are not real news sources. They are fear and hate mongers.

Phylo out.

Gerson wrote
"Obama assembles the mosaic."

That "mosaic" is akin to the nonsensical Canadian "mosaic" of officious multiculturalism!

Gerson also wrote
"Many Palestinians share these views. There are a number of serious, pragmatic Palestinian leaders. But Palestinian radio and television have often recycled Holocaust skepticism."

No surprise considering that they have to obfuscate about the active aid to Hitler's "Final Solution" rendered by their "leader" Haj-amin Husseini!

Herman
Do you really think the Middle East was a better place with Saddam Hussein gassing his own people the Kurds (proved in court), attacking Iran (8 year war in the '80s), invading Kuwait (the 90s), and ignoring its own Gulf War truce and 17 UN resolutions?

As far as the Bushs are concerned, Bush II went to the Middle many times as president and surely could go if he wished today. Stop suffering Bush derangement. He is no longer pres. You now have the wonderful King Elect O.

Perhaps you forgot after WW II, we said of aggressive tyrants: NEVER AGAIN.

try reality for a change
I have little doubt that you mindless idiots posting on this column believe Rush Limbaugh when he says that Obama is responsible for the state of our economy and that he is the reason we have a 9.4% unemployment rate.

If you want to know what real news is like, as opposed to pure propaganda and demagogy, try reading this story from (horror of horrors) the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/10/business/economy/10leonha rdt.html?hp

This is what honest, unbiased reporting looks like, in case some of you have never ventured beyond the opinion pages of far right websites and talk radio. Notice how they also take Obama to task, and offer actual evidence to back up their claims. Wow, what a novel approach to reporting!

Go ahead. Try it. See if you can sense a difference.

Phylo out.

Krauthammer speaks the truth!
Charles Krauthammer on what Fox News Channel has acheived: "What Fox did is not just create a venue for alternative opinion. It created an alternate reality."

Boy is that ever the truth! And you people wonder why you are so ill-informed. Pssst: It's because FOX News cherry picks their stories to favor Republicans and make liberals look bad. They figure that what you don;t know won't hurt you.

To Renny
I assume you are trying to be serious.

Yes, Bush went to Iraq (the country he liberated) but under total secrecy and stayed on military bases and behind the Green Zone.

Bush stayed in Iraq for a few hours and got out before before the people he "liberated" found out he was there.

Hussein ignored 17 U.N. Resolutions? Israel has ignored over 60 U.N. Resolutions.

Yes, Hussein gassed his own people (under the Bush I watch). Did Bush II complain about it while it was happening?

Phylo, the NYTimes is dying
It's reportage is so rejected by what is left of the reading public, few are actually buying it.

The Times has $46 million in debt and under $14 in working capital, most of it recently infused by a Mexican billionaire.

The paper cannot no longer sell enough ads to support itself and has even cut its own format 2 inches, let alone firing 500 people since 2004.

Once, a great paper and the newspaper of record, the NYSlimes since Punch became publisher is little more than another liberal arm of the Dem. Party.

If you want a newspaper that is growing and produces REAL numbers and figures and not those made up (the Times fired a labor-column writer in 2006 for making up statistics), read the Wall Street Journal.

But, if you prefer to be fed Times' slander and bias yet are appalled at TH posters' ideas, get off the thread.


Excuse the grammar
*can no longer*--previous post.

To Phylo
Will you give me a break?

Liberals bring up Fox News time and time again as their lone example for what they think is conservative bias in the news.

Never mind the liberal media (and not just one cable TV channel) fawn over Obama and offer blind support for Israel.

Holocaust Denial
Q. Why do we get so worked up everytime someone denies the Holocaust? Am I suppose to get worked up everytime someone says the earth is flat?

A. The reason we make a big deal about people who deny the Holocaust is because it give Israel and their unquestioned supporters an excuse to bring up the Holocaust and it provides a pre-emptive attack to stop any mild, valid criticism of Israel.

Yippee-ki-yay
Wow – Our Maximum Leader for Life criticizes Holocaust deniers! Sorry dude, but I don’t think that stating the obvious merits adulation.

It takes no statesmanship at all to disagree with an unserious position. And denying the Holocaust, however distasteful, is an unserious intellectual argument. This is like Obama making an emphatic case for the sky being blue.

In the meantime, the U.S. intensifies the pressure on Israel to surrender ever more of its scarce land. Even in the strange alternate reality of Obamunist America, actions still speak louder than words.

Herman's logic resembles that
of Siddique Salik, a 1971-war POW who refused to even acknowledge that his nation (and he personally) had committed war-crimes (and showed no gratitude towards India for releasing him without trial by publishing the hate-filled and fallacious "Witness to Surrender"). Salik was blown-up 1988/08/17, along with Zia (another untried war-criminal, he actually escaped capture entirely due to "staff-shuffle") by a THIRD war-criminal Aslam Beg.

"scarce land" indeed
Considering that all Israel is about the size of Maryland, scarce land is an understatement.

Considering the extent of territory controlled by Muslims, it doesn't really take much critical thinking ability or imagination to be amazed that

a. Israel still exists

b. Israel's existence is such a huge issue for Muslims

I know I'm always pushing novels, poetry, etc. on various TH threads. Today I'm recommending Tom Robbins' Skinny Legs and All, in case anyone wants to consider Jewish/Arab relationships in a weird and quirky light.

Plot point: a Jewish guy and an Arab guy are buddies and they open a restaurant together.

Phylo
Thanks buddy. I didn't know I was a "mindless idiot," (which is kind of like saying hot heat). I thought I was a moron, but I guess I'm not able to care for myself. Please feel free to disparage me again. It proves how inane your posts are.

Now. You're saying we "mindless idiots" should read "real" news like the New York Times. Jeez buddy. Your mind is completely warped. The Times hasn't been unbiased since the sixties. That's why it's going to be bailed out by the real idiots in Congress. The liberals need their pet propaganda machine. OBTW. Are you a product of the drugged-out sixties. That might explain much.

Israel
So Israel has "scarce land" the size of Maryland?

Israel also only has about 6 million people so their land is not all that "scarce".

Of course Israel, that paragon of virtue, has 6 million people because they strictly control their immigration.

I'm confused. Israel is our "greatest ally" and immigration is suppose to be such a wonderful thing so why don't they welcome immigrants like the U.S. does?

I knew it
You guys are refusing to actually go look at a paper like the NYTimes. I have no problem subjecting myself to right wing sources. I want to know what the "other side" is saying, and I'm not afraid to have my opinions challenged because I feel confident in them. I feel confident in them because I've done my homework and I've listened to right wing arguments. I suspect you folks are afraid to look at that New York Times article I posted because you're afraid it will shatter the delusional world you've created in your mind.

For one, it would shatter the myth that the New York Times is "government run media" as Rush says. They take both Obama and Bush to task using CBO numbers. Bush gets more of the blame, but that's because, factually speaking, he deserves more of the blame for our fiscal insanity.

The Republican Party is dying because you guys don't deal with reality. You don't ever step outside of the right wing bubble so your heads are filled with unchallenged nonsense.

If you want to have informed opinions, you have to have the courage to have your opinions challenged, and you have to acknowledge when your pre-formed opinions turn out to be wrong. That's called sound thinking.

Phylo out.




Phylo
"The Republican Party is dying because you guys don't deal with reality. You don't ever step outside of the right wing bubble so your heads are filled with unchallenged nonsense."

Look in the mirror.

...He's a sort of god
He's gonna get us all killed.

Paul
Do you not see the irony in you saying that to me when I, a liberal, am here reading columns at townhall. When is the last time you visited the Huffington Post, which is slanted to the left almost as much as townhall is to the right?

To Paul
Thanks for your profound thoughts expressed at 12:41.

You have given us all a lot to think about.

Actual area of Israel
As per pre-1967 borders, about size of New Jersey (and about 2/3 of Maryland), much of it (including major cities) only 15 km (distance easily reachable by WW-2 field-artillery) from border with West Bank (then part of Jordan).

post-1967--including West Bank, Gaza Strip and Golan--about the size of Taxachussets (83% of Maryland). 6 million people in that area comes to a density of roughly 240 per square-kilometre (or 2.4 per hectare). Taken over pre-1967 Israel, the number comes to 300 per square-kilometre (3 per hectare). Considering that much of the land matches (in north) that of Indian districts Sirohi, Nagaur or Udaipur (and in south or Negev, try more like that of Jaisalmer) in arability, land can indeed be considered scarce.

Israel
I have to laugh at the comments on this site.

People are worried that land is scarce in Israel because they have 6 miilion people leaving in an area the size of New Jersey.

Guess what the population of New Jersey is? 9
million. When was the last time (if ever) TOWNHALL readers worried about the people of New Jersey?

Leaving to TOWNHALL columnists and readers the put the needs of Israel ahead of the needs of the U.S.

Disgraceful.

DAVID HOROWITZ & OBAMA'S SPEECH
Click my name and read my piece critical of David Horowitz's praise of Obama's Cairo speech

Obama
Does he recognize the danger from radical Islam?
Did the democratic nations recognize that the Nazis could not be appeased or reasoned with that they could only be confronted and defeated?
I perceive that if Israel did not exist and if there were no Jews left on the planet that radical Islam would still be adamantly and violently opposed to the West and to civilization. I am not a Jew.
Donald W. Bales

Well Donald
Oblunder is pro-Islamic due to his dad being a nominal Muslim (rather similar to Jinnah, who was known for having bacon for breakfast and whisky as much at "English Teatime"***; the senior 0bama died of...DUI!).

Exerpt of his speech, "the land where Islam WAS REVEALED", not "land where Islam was founded" or "where Islam is believed by Muslims to have been revealed" only showed this.


***for English, anytime between 00:00:00.1 and 23:59:59.9 that a cuppa is desired.

To Donald
So what is your solution for radical Islam?

There are 1.2 billion Islamic people in the world, there is no leader you can deal with and they have no borders.

Look at the trouble the U.S. is having with 25 million people in Iraq. If by some miracle Iraq turns out well we only have 1.175 billion Islamic people to go.

PEACE WITH ISLAM IS A DREAM
No matter how many pretty speeches Barack Obama makes to his Muslim Brothers peace with the Middle East will never be a reality. No American President or other world Leaders have accomplished a permanent peace with all of the Middle East Nations.
What has the Muslim community provided to the world in the way of peace, science, literature medicine, exploration or human rights? Americans help them to develop their oil production after WWII.
There are One Billion, 200 Hundred Million Muslims in the world, or 20% of the world population. There have been only 7 Muslims who have received a Nobel Prize, for literature, medicine and Peace. Ysar Arafat was one who received the Nobel Prize for Peace in 1984 and we all know who he was.

There are 14 Million Jews in the world, or 0.02% of the world's population. There have been 129 Jews who have received a Nobel Prize in five catagories. Albert Einstein was one who received the Nobel Prize for Science in 1921 and we all know who he was.

The Jews are NOT promoting brain washing children in military training camps, teaching them how to blow themselves up and cause maximum deaths of Jews and other non Muslims!

The Jews don't hijack planes, nor kill athletes at the Olympics, or blow themselves up in German restaurants, in Italian airports, in Spainish train stations, in London subways. There is NOT one single Jew that has destroyed a church. There is NOT a single Jew that protests by killing people.
Muslims and President Obama must ask “what can they do for humankind” before they demand that humankind respects them!!

'If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel' -Benjamin Netanyahu
I say, we should develop our own oil production, build nuclear energy and tell the Middle East Nations to go to H*ll.

Anymore pretty speeches by Barack Obama to his Muslim Brothers is just spitting in the wind.





What?
So now "Holocaust Denial" is going to be the deciding factor in things? Of all the things that we could possibly be concerned about, it's all going to come down to who can win the "Holocaust" argument?

The President of the United States issues a challenge to the Iranian leader to come to Buchenwald -- to dispute his claims about something that ended over 64 years ago.

I just hope that the Lord will have mercy on our insane souls.

BTW...Mr. President, you might want to wait until you take a trip to Auschwitz before you start issuing your challenges. There was no mass murdering taking place at Buchenwald. Aw-my-demented-head...can't witness what didn't happen there.

More for Reba
Also notice that mosques in Israel (and even West Bank, Gaza and Jerusalem) were protected from destruction by "religious places" law of Israel. By contrast, synagogues (and also Hindu temples and Sikh gurudwaras, more recently also churches) in Muslim countries have never had such legal protection (synagogues in much of Arab world destroyed between 1948 and 1967).

Also, how many Muslims helped Israel to establish? Last-I-checked, none.

How many Jews helped a Muslim nation to establish? At least one that I can mention; (then) Major-general (he retired with rank of Lt-gen, and position of GOC Eastern Command) Jack Frederick Robert Jacob of Indian Army was one of those who led combat in Bangladesh to liberate that even-then 86% Muslim nation from Pakistan's misrule.

They Try So Hard
To rip apart Obama.

Gerson's only criticism of Obama's speech is that some opposition to Israel is motivated not my misinformation (the Holocaust never happened), but by a desire to finish the job.

No doubt that's true, but right wingers completely ignore Obama's purpose, which is to win over the hearts & minds of reasonable thoughtful Muslims, isolating Al Quada and other extremists and making them weaker.

The pattern I see reading townhall.com is that the columnists are motivated not by a desire to see America Win, but for Obama and the Democrats to lose.

herman x, anti semite
so tell us bright boy what happened to the billions given to the palestineans to rebuild their infra structure.

It escapes your feebled intellect because you are blinded by your hatred of israel. But the answer is it ended up in the bank of accounts held by yassir and his cronies running the corrupt gov't structure put in place by yassir and his pals.

You don't seem the least bit bothered by the non stop blood letting that goes on between el fatah and hamas'

And you still have not replied to the questions of why the palestinean barbarians have continued to send mortar and rocket attacks and people with bombs strapped on their backs to kill people and still think they are entitled to some consideration.

And you also refuse to address the issue of the non stop hatred the adults teach their children concerning the israeli's.

But why the shock, it seems you have far more in common with your leader and master louie farrakhan and his never ending hatred of the jews.

It seems you are the typical follower of islam who gets more comfort from hating the jews than in blaming your fellow muzzies who follow the death cult of allah;


renny
"Perhaps you forgot after WW II, we said of aggressive tyrants: NEVER AGAIN."

Like me to offer a list? Plenty of aggressive tyrants and the US was Saddam's main supplier during the war in Iran.

Dan
"The pattern I see reading townhall.com is that the columnists are motivated not by a desire to see America Win, but for Obama and the Democrats to lose"

If America is to win -- Obama and the Democrats have to lose.

Dan, Obama is not going to "win-over" anything. The rest of the world couldn't care less about Barrack Obama, nor anything he has to say. Barrack Obama is a U.S. Media production and while childish Liberals over here are fawning over their fairy-tale Prince who they think is going to ride-in on his white horse and save the world -- they couldn't care less about the Circus Clown that is Barrack Obama. They may be getting a good laugh at all the silly Americans believing in these fairy tales -- but that's about the extent of it.


The Mother Of All F-Ups!

The mother of all f-ups: The Obama Administration has decided to treat all terrorists attacks ANYWHERE in the world as a police action. This includes any enemy combatants caught on the battlefield in Afghanistan, who will now be read their Miranda rights.

Same mindset that the government had prior to 9-11.

WTF???
This is officially a load of bad logic, wrapped up to rationalize Zionism. Several million of the world's Jews have spent the past 60 years propping up an illogical spot in the desert, spending down our guilt account over the Holocaust, when they should have been here in the US (a far better investment).

terry in ga
when you are utterly clueless, how can the country expect any real leadership.

It seems flap ears has pulled off the greatest bait and switch of all time.

But the only question that flap ears has not yet answered is: is he totally naive, incredibly ignorant or just determined to destroy america?

But it seems that the world wide press corps has figured out something the msm in america still is in denial over. America has elected a clueless clown, more in love with himself than in trying to do the job he was elected for.

As long as everything is about the messiah 24/7 and the dims in congress march in goose step behind the wannabee dictator this country remains in real danger. Both domestically with the economy and from foreign threats to our safety

To Cactus Head
You talk about the Palestinians suicide bombers. Fine.

Give me your best guess how many Palestinians have been killed vs. the number of people from Israel who have been killed from bombing.

You talked about U.S. foreign aid to the Palestinians. Fine.

Give me your best guess how much aid Israel gets from the U.S. vs. the Palestinians. And maybe explain to me how a small country like Israel can afford a state-of-the-art military.

rw
sounds like another clueless troll concerning history and the holocaust.

Exactly what guilt are americans supposed to have concerning the murder of millions of jews by the minions of hitler.

While americans can fully acknowledge and have compassion for the plight of the victims there was nothing americnas could do until after the allies finally regained a foothold in france in ju ne of 1944.

Exactly why shouldn't the jews have the homeland of their choosing. They had been living in the region throughout history and have as much of a legitimate claim to the land as anyone else.

There problem is they made the dessert bloom and developed a successful coun try.

Unfortunately for them the failed palestineans were also there and they chose to remain at war for 60 years rather than emulate the israeli's and make a success of the territories they controlled

Terry
If your cynical view is correct, then all presidents for at least the last 100 years have been U.S. Media productions. While their childish fan bases fawned over their fairy-tale Prince they thought was going to ride-in on his white horse and save the world -- the rest of the would couldn't have cared less about the Circus Clown that is the US President.

Is really what you beleive? If so, I give you points for being consistant.

herman x, anti semite
obviously you are unaware that democracies also have vital economies that produce wealth.

Whereas the palestineans have been little more than basket cases totally reliant on welfare payments from the euros and the americans and the money to buy munitions from their muzzie enablers

When old yassir dies he had billions of money meant for the rebuilding of the territories in his personal bank accounts. Do much for compassion and leadership from old yassir for the people he claimed to lead.

That is beyond the money stolen by his fellows in leadership positions in fatah.

But you seem to think that israel was little more than a welfarte state living off handouts from america.

But worse still america is also giving egypt $1 billion a year from the camp david accords. But at least egypt seems to make an attempt at maintaining a country where things get done and people don't live in abject poverty


flap ears and rev wrong,
seems flap ears mentor and daddy figure, the rev wrong from the church of I hate whitey has crawled out from under his rock to blame the jews because they won't let him speak to the racist creation he inspired and who is now infesting the white house.

But why the surprise, flap ears was little more than a willing puppet for both farrakhan and wright and both are haters of the jews.

I am sure that israel is more than aware of this connection and knows that should iran follow through on their threats to destroy israel, they cannot count on america under barry hussein obamarxist to come to their defense

Getting terrorists lawyered up is right
because (a) some terrorists might be insane or mentally disabled or underage and these matters need to be sorted out (b) all Islamic countries will love us for it (c) most terrorists really don't know much about Miranda rights and need to be informed (d) Islamists, knowing about these rights, will grant the same to our guys, I'm ALMOST sure (e) Islamists will stop attacking Israel because we've been so fair to them and the Israelis are our friends (f) most importantly, our lawyers need the work in these difficult economic times.

I'm sure I have proved my point. A terrorist and a shoplifter are not all that different when you come right down to it, and to deny the terrorist ANY rights accorded ordinary US citizens is just a particularly nasty form of DISCRIMINATION, which as everyone knows is a terrible thing, even if you're trying to discriminate against a bottle of Thunderbird in favor of some snooty French wine.

Let homogeneity reign. All people must be seen as equally innocent until we have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are no more billable hours to be achieved.

Oldprof

Never in the history of this country have we extended Constitutional protections and rights to enemies caught on the battlefield.

We have read rights to terrorists that we have captured on American soil. BIG DIFFERENCE.

It is difficult to see the JAG corps following our troops behind the lines in Vietnam so that they could Mirandize any captured enemy.

Miranda is approximately 50 years old, only.



Well, St. Denis
A concomitant of my recommendation is that there is no time like the present to expand JAG and maybe get rid of the combat forces altogether.

Since lawyers are a lot scarier than soldiers and cause lots more havoc in individual lives (at least among people I know), we should send them as our first line of defense. Every gun can be replaced with a brief case.

They can say to terrorists, "Surrender now and we'll take your case now. Fail to do so, and we are authorized to delay our services and double our fees."

I'm pretty sure the terrorists would fall right into line.

phylo: catch more flies with honey
than with vinegar. I did read the NYT story you linked to. If Obama is merely extending Bush's policies, then he has chosen to extend them and is responsible for extending them. But if the deficit is so bad, he did rack up a huge one right away and why he should not be credited with that I do not know. The article does not mention the "ninja" loans that were pushed by ACORN et al which I think bear the majority of the blame, but that's the guy's take on the matter.
But why all the vitriol? I've had dispassionate discussions with people who oppose gay marriage and peoploe who favor abortion. They and I have parted on civil terms. To bring someone to your side, you must go to their side and lead them, not scream at them. Of course if your goal is P-ing off readers of your posts, pray continue.

American guilt for Jewish deaths
Little piece of history I had from my professor whose father knew FDR when he was President. A man came to see him who had escaped Auschwitz. He had with him documentation of what went on there, including maps of the camp and the crematoria and also written statements from inmates that they were willing to die in an Allied bombing to shut down this place (Auschwitz killed a million and a half Polish Jews altogether if memory serves). He begged Roosevelt to bomb it. Roosevelt refused, for what reasons I do not know. There may have been military ones but I don't know. The man hung himself. This story is just my word to you all, but what is documentable is that we did not take in more Jewish refugees from Nazi Europe. Having nowhere to go, many died.

Anti-Semitism & Anti-Zionism

Do you want to know where denial lies? In the minds of people, who believe that an extremist speaks for others, that is where.

There is a deadly convergence of RW Anti-Semites and LW Anti-Zionists* ongoing. Like Hitler and the Soviet Union, the Jews are hated because they are Capitalists.


*Check out the tapes of the pro-Palestinian march in San Francisco during the recent "mini-war" in Gaza. The protestors, mainly area college students, were shouting "Death to Jews" and "To the ovens, you go Jew". It was shocking to see Americans speak that way.

Correction

Like Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Soviet Union, the Jews are hated because they are Capitalists.

St. Denise
Your theory doesn't hold much water, many people were capitalists, and many Jews were communists, like Trotsky. I think the reason people hate jews, Muslims, and gays, is because they are just plain stupid and bad people. Some people need a minority to bash to make them feel superior.

Lefties are good at Denial

Not every Leftie is involved in Holocaust denial, but most participate in a greater and more current mass denial: the denial of the slaughter of the innocents through the practice of Abortion.

I was driving behind a college student this week, and she had 2 bumper stickers on her car that demonstrated a level of vapid denial that astonished even me.

The sticker on the left said "AN INJURY TO ONE IS AN INJURY TO ALL," while the sticker on the right said: "KEEP ABORTION LEGAL."

I am certain that the irony was totally lost on this Mensa candidate who probably spends more time spreading Leftie talking points than reading her Biology 101 text book.

mountain rose
sounds like the college genius is getting her education from comic books. It helps her to have pictures replace words longer than 5 letters

Cactus Head

LOL!

Seriously!
One essay that put this whole anti-Jewish problem in a somewhat different light is in Thomas Sowell's collection entitled Black Rednecks and White Liberals. The essay, which is heavily documented, is entitled "Are Jews Generic?"

What, Dr. Sowell asks, do the Jews in Eastern Europe, the Chinese minorities in Southeastern Asia, the Ibos in Nigeria, and the Armenians in the Ottoman Empire have in common? They are hated and persecuted, "subjected to lethal animosities on a mass scale."

For the reason persuasively argued by Dr. Sowell, buy or borrow the book and read the essay. He says it isn't exactly capitalism, and it isn't religion.

Addendum for Oldprof's 2009/06/10 22:20
Also the following groups can be added:
(*) Chakma (largely Buddhist) tribals and to lesser-extent Hindus in Bangladesh
(*) Ahmadiyas (aka Qadianis) in Pakistan (Pakistan's ONLY Nobelist ever was of this group)
(*) Baha'is and Sunnis in Iran
(*) Shias in Saudi Arabia (ongoing) and Taliban-ruled Afghanistan (1996-2001)

For lemonfemale
I actually studied the idea (using a lesser later equivalent) that bombing of the Nazi death-camps or the railtracks leading to them would have saved lives.

Dealing with raitracks issue first, reality: given cruelty of the Nazis as a whole, it would NOT be beyond them to forcibly march prisoners for longer distance to the death-camps (they actually DID forcibly march many that way WITHOUT infrastructure damage), which would inevitably have led to many of the prisoners dying enroute (through exhaustion or weather-exposure). Net lives saved: maximum number was...ZERO!

On bombing OF death-camps. All that would do was take away a more-sophisticated method of killing--and what would prevent the Nazis from using much-cruder methods, such as bullet-and-bayonet?

(FYI, bullet-and-bayonet were the ACTUAL methods used for 1971's "Operation Searchlight" which snuffed out--between 1971/03/26 and 1971/12/15--the lives of 3.5 millions Bengalis, 2.3 millions of these Muslims; number of perpetrators of "Searchlight" was about 140,000--95,000 Pakistani soldiers and 45,000 mostly-Bihari goonda-paramilitaries)

For cactus-head's 2009/06/10 16:08
Calling Herman's mind "feeble" is an understatement--IMO, he's absolutely devoid of any!

Addendum for lemonfemale
The later lesser equivalent I studied was a hypothetical "could India have saved Bangla lives by artillery-bombardment of Ashuganj and Hilli?" (these both lie within WW2 field-artillery range from Indian border, and have trunk rail-lines going through) to which the answer was "absolutely not, unless they had preponed the planned December 12 invasion to April 15, AND given Mukti Bahini open access to India's armaments-godowns".

Dan
When you think that Obama is going to "win-over" those internationally, let me ask you: What has he accomplished with them?

He went to the G20 Summit seeking help for his build-up of forces in Afghanistan -- he got none.

He's asked the international community to take some of the detainees in GTMO -- he got no takers.

He went to the meeting of Latin American Nations in Trinidad and Tobago and got berated by the Latin American Leaders.

The British press now writes of him: A man with no substance.

Sarkozy of France has intentionally made fun of him to the public.

Merkel of Germany has publicly opposed his foreign policy decisions.

Hugo Chavez jokes about him public. Most recently joking that Obama is more of a Marxist than he and Castro.

North Korea is intentionally taunting Obama.

The Chinese are warning him about his financial decisions and how it is effecting their investments.


Those are just the ones I can think of for the moment. But you tell me -- just exactly who is it that Obama is "winning over?"

Holocaust Denial and Obama
I was wondering how Gerson was going to diss Obama on this issue. I mean, most of the column amounts to agreeing with Obama, as I would assume anyone concerned about Holocaust denial would do. I don't see anything in Obama's speech that suggests that he ignores the existence of Holocaust deniers who want to finish the job by destroying Israel. Gerson had to stretch to pull that one out, but you just know that no conservative can every really be caught agreeing with Obama the Great Satan.
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