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Wednesday, May 13, 2009
Michael Gerson :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Driving Desire for Defeat
by Michael Gerson
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WASHINGTON -- Of the two main American political parties, Republicans are now clearly distinguished by their driving desire to lose. Every faction seems determined to rule the kingdom of irrelevance.

Witness the reaction to the National Council for a New America -- an anodyne "listening tour" by Republican officials recently kicked off at a pizza parlor in Northern Virginia. Social conservatives attacked this forum on education and the economy for the offense of not being a forum on abortion and the traditional family. Neo-Reaganites searched the transcript for nonexistent slights: How dare former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush criticize "nostalgia" for the "good old days"? Why didn't he just spit on Ronald Reagan's grave? Other conservatives criticized the very idea of a listening tour, asking, "What's to hear?"

During a recent conversation, Bush described himself as "dumfounded by the reaction." He added: "I don't think listening is a weakness. People are yearning to be heard. Perhaps we should begin with a little humility."

There is much for Republicans to be humble about. The party, says Bush, faces "dramatically changing demographics, especially Hispanics in swing states," the "alienation of young voters" and an unprecedented drop in support among college graduates.

"Trying to be all things to all people isn't going to work," Bush contends. The goal is "not to redefine our beliefs, but to recognize challenges and adapt," particularly on the issues of national security, health care, education, the economy and the environment. Republicans need to "focus on creating policies relevant to today -- not things relevant 20, 30 or 40 years ago."

Jeb Bush insists that this focus on creative policy can be unifying because "conservatives have more in common than they disagree on." And the Republican Party has been unified in opposition to President Obama's disturbing accumulation of federal debt and power. But on other issues, it seems to me that Republicans are likely to pass through a series of wrenching debates before they arrive at "policies relevant to today."

Take the environment. For many Americans, especially the young, concern about carbon emissions and climate disruption is no longer a conviction; it is a value. It is possible that climate change skeptics -- the dominant Republican voices -- have uncovered a vast scientific delusion, like the belief in phlogiston or phrenology. But given the compelling evidence from glaciology, botany and marine biology, this seems unlikely.

Republicans have distinctive contributions to make on climate policy. They might support a carbon tax instead of a cumbersome cap-and-trade system. They should insist that all revenues gained from a carbon tax or the sale of pollution permits go back to the American people in lower taxes. But the main policy choice is binary: Should a cost be imposed on carbon emissions? If Republicans generally say no, they will not be viewed as belonging to an environmental party.

A similar argument can be made concerning health care. Obamacare, in its nascent form, seems deeply flawed -- using a system of fines, new bureaucracies and subsides to push workers toward a plan resembling Medicare. Republicans have long supported alternatives that subsidize the individual ownership of private health insurance. But these proposals generally have been incremental, poorly explained and largely ignored.

A credible Republican alternative would employ a more generous refundable tax credit that enables the working poor to purchase basic health insurance -- essentially creating an entitlement to health care through the private insurance system. This is perhaps the only real alternative to the slow socialization of American health care. It is also costly.

Or consider immigration. Immigrants hold diverse political views, but they also make a determination about parties and politicians: Do they welcome us? The answer from Republicans has often been equivocal. Some of this is a matter of tone. But it is difficult to imagine a remedy to this impression of resentment without Republican support for immigration reform that includes a legal status for temporary workers and a realistic path to citizenship.

Each of these policies -- carbon restrictions, universal health insurance and immigration reform -- could eventually be important to the Republican recovery. But would a candidate carrying these ideas transform the Republican Party, or be destroyed by it? The hostile reaction to the pizza parlor putsch provides one answer.

But this is a snapshot, not a prophecy. As the years pass, the kingdom of irrelevance seems less and less pleasant, even to its rulers. Policy shifts that seem incredible become inevitable. This is how a party prepares to win.

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About The Author
Michael Gerson writes a twice-weekly column for The Post on issues that include politics, global health, development, religion and foreign policy. Michael Gerson is the author of the book "Heroic Conservatism" and a contributor to Newsweek magazine.
 
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Gerson, I'm surprised at you
The surest way to ensure future republican defeats is by alienating the conservative base as you propose. What you propose is the party of 'me-tooism,' or democrat-lite. Why vote for the lite when you can have the real thing?

Everyone on earth is pro-environment; but not everyone has bought into the certainly-man-made-global-warming scam. Most of us know that meteorological history is like a roller coaster.

Everyone is for health care; most of us just don't believe the fedgov, who brings us the joys of the IRS, the bankrupt post office, $300 toilet seats, johnnie has 2 mommies propagandization/education, abortion by fedcourt coup d'etat, is the right vehicle for health care delivery.

You've been drinking the Kool-aid with Specter and Powell, haven't you, Michael?

You are right on one thing
"This is how a party prepares to win."

You are talking about the party that was just voted out of office? The party of "wackos" who don't recognize their own "broken" policies? Maybe they need to be come irrelevant enough so that a real alternative third party cant take hold.

Gerson's an idiot

Very clear from what he writes: "Republicans need to 'focus on creating policies relevant to today -- not things relevant 20, 30 or 40 years ago'."

Well, the Constitution's even older than THAT, which must explain why the GOP doesn't seem to care about it any more.

Or this little gem: "It is possible that climate change skeptics -- the dominant Republican voices -- have uncovered a vast scientific delusion, like the belief in phlogiston or phrenology. But given the compelling evidence from glaciology, botany and marine biology, this seems unlikely."

"Compelling evidence"? WHAT compelling evidence?

How about this little nugget: "Or consider immigration. Immigrants hold diverse political views, but they also make a determination about parties and politicians: Do they welcome us?"

The debate's not about "immigration"! It's about amnesty for ILLEGAL ALIENS and border security!

If this brain-dead moron is the best the GOP has to offer, no wonder it's in the tank. And well should be!

Hell, it has jumped the shark, and needs to go the way of the WHIGs and just disappear into the Dem Party where it seems to feel so welcome policy-wise.

Let another REAL conservative party emerge and replace it.


Good lord
So, we see the gnat headed Arlen Spectre determine he wasn't picked for the campaign run, and next thing you know it's campaign time.
This is how INSANE our nation is now.
Obama is still getting beaten over the head for his fascist commie destroy the dollar takeovers, and the rethugs are already on the campaign trail, like in this column.
Perhaps they should wonder why people can't stand politics anymore, or maybe they should all just shoot themselves thereby letting freedom ring.

Hey - here's a wild idea - how about
picking policy positions based on what is right instead of what you think people want to hear.

Then, go out and explain WHY you believe your positions are right, why your policies are best for the country, and why people should vote for you.

dag, do you have a point?
your senseless diatribe is meaningless. i gather from your use of the trollspeak rethugs terminology that you are against republicans. do you have a message, or are you just exercising your keyboard? your post is meaningless.

chris, u gotta be kidding
why abandon the losing tactics of 06 and 08? modern republicans must "feel your pain". republicans are now compassionate ( codeword for liberal traitors). why stop being just like democrats, except possibly not as bad? dont you see how well the metoo strategy has worked? why should republicans be anything other than the wimpy democrats they have been for the last 8 years? surely when asked to chose between real democrats and the republican fake democrats, they will chose the fake democrats. no point in growing balls and spines now. republicans should just continue to be in favor of national illegal immigration suicide, social security bankruptcy disaster, welfare from cradle to grave for those that vote "right", and the destruction of the constitution. we see how well it works for democrats. why not republicans too?

gerson, you are a moron
your title describes democratic foreign policy. the text of your stupidity advocates that republicans be more like democrats. no thank you. republicans are way, way too much like democrats already. go away, moron

Gerson's Folly
Gerson wants us to compromise our integrity to win elections. So what have we won, an empty victory? You can look at the Global Warming delusion from all sides and it's a loser no matter how you look at it.

Even if it's true and even if all countries on earth collaborated fully the impact on CO2 emissions, as I understand it, would be minute. We might as well believe in the fairy godmother and sacrifice virgins.

We don't have the presidency or the Congress but we do have our integrity and Gerson wants us to sacrifice that! As for the illegal aliens issue all we want is the government to implement a legal path for immigrants to come here and work and follow the law in regard to those who have come here illegally. Conservative Republicans believe in the rule of law, unlike the liberals who believe in their feelings.

Gerson just signed up with Colin Powell: Just act like Democrats and we will win. That's leadership!

No thanks!
If what Gerson describes is the formula for winning I'd just as soon lose.

Let throw out a couple ideas here. First, nobody named Bush should be anywhere near the republican party right now.

Second, given that complete dominance in education by the left for the last 35 years, isn't it possible that these "values" held by young voters are just flatly wrong? Carbon, more properly CO2, is only considered a pollutant because the SCOTUS ruled it was a pollutant. Justice Scalia stated that under that decision that even a Frisbee is considered a pollutant.

This is the wrong crew with the wrong message. Why does a listening tour even need a message?

Prediction: If this is the strategy for 2010 then there may not be a republican left in congress.

Gerson the Republican
Follow me into the dessert even though I don't know where I am going. Republicans are on the wrong track so I will ask the Democrats for a trip ticket to assist us.

What is our destination we ask? I think it is Peggy Noonan's house for dinner. Sure hope that Kathleen Parker is there for additional ideas.

Just look who Gerson bio -- wonk and speechwriter for W, columns for Newsweek and the Post. All super conservative bastions. Great credentials for today’s inside Washington Republicans

KMA
No way am I going to listen to this guy. He's pining for power, plainly. Power should be a byproduct not a purpose. When you propose to pander in order to become relevant you give away your purpose for writing.
Shame on ya.

Bush?
Jeb may have been a good governor, but he sounds just like his brother as President and that isn't going to happen again.
His relevance, or yours, about climate change is outdated already. Value or not, it is being disproved in all respects every day. That casts doubt on all of the those who think it is real. We should not, regardless, take political positions based on polls just so we can chase votes based on junk science.
Reagan never took positions. He took stands based on values and it showed. Bush is arguing that we should take positions based on short term reactions to headlines.
As for immigration, we already have ways for people to enter the country legally on permanent and temporary bases, so that isn't a problem. Lack of enforcement of the law is the issue. Legal immigrants are okay. Illegals are not. That does not need reforming.

This Gerson Idiot
This article is so typical of the Wimpublican elites as they breathlessly adopt the "progressive" standard. They differ from the RAT party in only 2 respects:

1. They want to impose the Workers' Paradise upon us, just a little more slowly.

2. THEY want to be in charge of gummint, instead of the RATs.

Hey Wimpublicans, how about this as a strategy - treat the electorate as adults instead of unruly middle schoolers whose "feelings are hurt."

So basically, we're surrendering?
If we're going to grow a "big tent", by giving up core beliefs, then what's the point of having an opposition party? So we'll become "Democrat-Lite".We tried that with McCain. That went well didn't it.?!
Perhaps it's time to leave the Republican Party and start a new "Conservative Party".

Thought I was reading...
David Brooks.

Great, advice from Jeb Bush...like the Bush family hasn't done enough to water-down the brand. People like Gerson just had their ideal candidate, John McCain, at least in wimpish, unprinciples "moderation" as the Republican presidential candidate.

How'd that turn out?




Dealing with "Climate Change"
Wouldn't it be weird if the climate stopped changing?

Seriously, let's just assume - hypothetically - that the following are true:
1. The earth is warming.
2. People are causing this by releasing CO2 from fossil fuels.
3. This will cause some ice on Antarctica and Greenland to melt, raising ocean levels by 20 feet.

I say rather than going back to the horror that was pre-industrialized life (which is what it would take to prevent the above alleged catastrophe), it would be much more effective to adapt to the changes.

The combination of global warming and higher atmospheric CO2 concentrations would make farming a viable option much closer to the poles than it is now - huge areas in Canada and Russia that are not currently arable would become so.

Yes, hundreds of millions of people would need to relocate due to the encroaching oceans. But returning to a pre-industrial way of life would mean the death of billions due to inefficient farming and poor hygene.

If the GOP continues to move toward taxing or otherwise limiting the emission of CO2, I will not be a part of it.

Let's focus our efforts on adapting to conditions, and limiting real pollution.

Yeah!
I wanted to see the reaction here at townhall. I'm heartened to see that Michael Gerson and Collin Powell are too liberal to be Republicans. All you guys are going to have left is the people who support Cheney and Limbaugh. That amounts to less than 20% of the country.

You go guys!

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NO to Democrat LIte
Why in the world are people like Gerson so quick to follow the crowd simply because a fraud won the last election by making impossible promises. People like Gerson should stop panicking and realize that Barack Obama may be the best friend Republicans have now, the man is nothing more than a charlatan pursuing insane policies that promise to bankrupt the country and quite possibly cause Armageddon abroad. He is headed for a fall and following him over the cliff is the last thing you want to do.

“Going green” may be all the rage among some people but just wait, they haven’t seen the bill yet. The same is goes for Obama’s health care plan and the rest of his massive spending programs. Right now Obama’s grandiose plans exist mostly on paper, once the full effect becomes apparent and we start seeing the punitive tax increases and/or hyperinflation that follow a massive case of sticker shock will set in. Be patient, Democrats will slit their own thoats. Republicans do need to be ready with a viable alternative when the meltdown comes, but panicking now and becoming Democrat-lite will only hurt in the long run.


Bush League Blues
One sure way for the Republicans to keep losing is the keep listening to anyone named Bush.

The Democrats should quit whining about the election of 2000 (though I know they probably never will). GWB becoming POTUS was the best thing to happen for the Democrats in decades.

It will take years for the GOP to recover from Bush's blunders. I'm not sure our freedoms will survive in the meantime.

Better Dead Than Red
I'd rather be in the 20% that upholds my principles and values than in the 80% that does not. However a majority of the people in this country are conservative by nature if not Republicans by affiliation. The real problem with the Republican party is that it got away from its core principles and lost conservatives such as myself. While I work to restore conservatism within the Republican party (3rd party politics is a dead end IMHO) I do not support the liberal-lite moderates that advocate "moving to the center" which by definition has been drastically tilted left by the highly vocal extremists in the Democratic party. I think it is simply wrongheaded to sacrifice your principles for power which is what is being advocated by those that claim to speak for "moderation".

Face Reality
Gerson is half right. From the outside, the Republican rhetorical blood letting is hilarious. It’s a Zombie style circular firing squad where no one ever stops shooting, even after they are dead. Witness John McCain’s new group and its listening tour. But underneath the hilarity lies a real problem. In the real world, power does indeed corrupt. Unfettered power, especially unfettered political power, leads inexorably to excess. The 2000-2006 Republican proved that. A Democrat Party faced with no meaningful opposition will ultimately go too far, with long term negatives for both the country and the party itself. As a card carrying liberal, I realize that we need a meaningful, thoughtful opposition party.

Right now, calling Republicans a meaningful, thoughtful opposition generates more laughter than assent. Half of them want to swing much farther to the right, where the only hope is for America to rediscover its Biblical roots and maybe just secede from the union. The other half advocates shifting to the center, dropping opposition to abortion, letting gay folk get married and fighting the battle only on economic terms.

Here’s some news: Republican ideas are not the problem. People seem to like a lot of Republican ideas. Hell, even I like some Republican ideas. All things being equal, no one minds keeping more of their own money and no one wants to get blown up by loony religious fanatics. No one wants to leave their grand children a debt they can never service. The problem remains the rhetoric of the right wing: Americans reject and will continue to reject the rhetorical and leadership style of the Republican/Conservative party

Hey, Wasn’t This Already on……..



M S N B C?

Wrong!
The GOP is on the right side of climate change, immigration reform and universal health care.

What they need to do is

1) work with responsible environmental groups (sure, try and find one) to fight real pollution while ensuring reliable energy sources.

2) Fight for American sovereignty, secure borders, English as the official language and enforcement of the law.

3) Work for health care reform. Make health care responsive to market forces and reduce government involvement in health care.

Wrong, wrong, wrong!
Hey, wasn't McCain in agreement with the other side on 2 of these 3 issues? And didn't he get is clock cleaned by an unknown, junior Senator?

Catch 22
The more alienated conservative moderates become, the more power is taken by the right wing of the conservative movement. Party then continues to shrink. Sounds like a Catch 22 to me.

Broken Immigration
What's broken about immigration is the quota system and the time and money it takes to become naturalized, typically a 10-15 year process. Our quota system is such that we will accept no more immigrants from Mexico than we will from Estonia or Finland, which means most Mexicans desiring to immigrate to the US will never be able to do so legally. Also, we kick the very best, most highly skilled potential immigrants on temporary visas out of the country on a routine basis in order to replace them with Americans--we should be helping them BECOME Americans.

This is the kind of immigration reform that Republicans should be able to support and take leadership on: streamline the process, which is tangled in tons of red tape, and adjust the quota system which was openly touted as a means to keep Mexicans out when it was devised. Not only is it the right thing to do, but Republicans would own the Hispanic vote if they championed these changes, all without any sort of amnesty.

Without immigration our population would be in decline, with the baby boomers starting to retire we are about to face a monumental demographic crisis. We need to get more immigrants here legal and paying taxes.



Sorry But...
If you have to conduct a "listening' tour it means that you don't know what to do or worse, you don't want to do what you know you should and are trying to find a "third way" around it.

People know the truth went they hear it and the can spot pretenders quickly because they have had real leaders to compare the pretenders to. Amazing how that works.

The truth here is that the "leaders" of the republican party are in trouble because they keep losing and they want to convince everyone that they should remain in their "leadership" positions while continuing to pretend they are the next incarnation of Reagan.

They want things to remain as the are, with everyone who can't win getting their chance, just because they are in line. The problem is that nobody is fooled by them anymore. They need to leave and join the democrat party where they can be loved for who they are and marginalized for not being enough of it!


Conservative, not Republican
This line of thinking is what has so clearly delineated for me my identification as a conservative and not a Republican. I rarely identify with that power-for-power's sake group any more.

If we treat our children...
... like Gerson proposes to treat the general public, we are enablers of the worst sort. The listening tour is a joke. Didn't republicans and dems just spend 18 months listening to the public leading up to the last election? Nothing was learned because nobody was listening and everybody was preaching. The same is undoubtedly happening now. The late Jack Kemp RIP knew how to listen.

Some things need to be done or supported or opposed, simply because they are wrong. There is nothing wrong with conserving our environment and being conscious of it, but the grandstanding and quixotic proposals for "fixing" it are simply rubbish based on fear. There is nothing wrong with immigration doen legally and with the objective of creating a melting pot instead of a salad. Unrestricted illegal immigration by people here to game our systems and with no intention of integrating into our society is a recipe for end of America. Is it any wonder that no other country in the world would allow an influx of illegals who behave as the ones here do?

Rather than become democrat lite, republicans need to make sure they really support the planks in their platform and present cogent arguments why their goals, ideas, and proposals are superior. I'm sorry that there aren't a lot of celebrities or media who buy in and who will give these ideas a fair hearing. Sadly, it is a bigger problem that general ignorance and indifference are probably a bigger hurdle than the media.

Always a pleasure to here from the old curmudgeon.

tapoutrightwinger
Most recurrent juicy rationalization from conservatives, "Bush wasn't a coservative". No, but your votes put him in office and kept him in office. Step up and take your share of the blame and your own irresponsibility.

Re: Those listening ear muffs
The idea of a "Republican listening" tour is the root of the problem. Certainly, if you go out and just "listen" to the gripes of the people, you are going to get, well, just that, gripes. The opportunity that Republicans never fail to miss is in presenting a plan of unified ideas based on those "values and convictions" that they say they understand and represent.

The key to Republican resurgence is not "listening," it is in "leadership," based on traditional party values. There is nothing difficult about that to understand but Republicans, to include this author, "JUST DON'T SEEM TO GET IT!"

Helpful Hints
here are some helpful hints for Republicans.

Stop whining about America being a Christian nation. Even if America was once a Christian nation and even if most Americans consider themselves Christians today, stop with the Christianity thing. Most Americans, even many Christians, consider religion a personal issue. They do not trust people who wear their religion like a shiny medal on their chest.

Stop with the “liberals are Marxists who hate America and want to destroy the nation.” You can argue with great effectiveness that government is too big and that taxes are an onerous burden. People will listen to that. Issues of eminent domain, for example, play pretty well.

Control the racists among you. Peggy Noonan, speech writer for Ronald Reagan, once expressed amazement at what was said, unchallenged, in conservative meetings. Not all conservatives are racist. The great majority of conservatives are NOT racist. But most racists are conservatives and if you do not challenge them, they will become the voice and spirit of your party.

Stop portraying anyone who doesn’t agree with your policies regarding use of force as a white feather pacifist. Very few liberals or conservatives felt the invasion of Afghanistan was problematic. A majority of Americans now recognize that the Iraq invasion was unnecessary, badly mismanaged, and atrociously expensive. Almost no one suggests that military force is NEVER appropriate.

Find some new voices and defer to them. A party whose public faces are the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Anne Coulter is going to appeal to a limited population. It should be no problem to find a voice which expresses conservative ideals without being a flaming a-hole at the same time. Why do you think Obama was such a godsend to the left?

One more thing
Under no circumstances should you "listen" to people like John from PA.

Robert...
You are quite right. I personally voted for the Bushes all 4 times they ran for president. The alternatives seemed so horrible. But I learned that the slow death of the frog in a pot of water heated to boiling is just as bad in the end if not worse than the quick death of the frog thrown into the already boiling pot. This past election I refused to vote for John McCain, even though Obama was clearly more undesirable. They were both undesirable and I doubt the results would have been much different if McCain had been elected.
McCain was opposed to waterboarding and Obama is increasing our presence in A'stan. McCain interupted his campaign to vote for bailouts and no doubt would have continued with them just as Obama has. McCain was more animated for amnesty than Obama and we might just well have amnesty instead of ownership of GM if he had been elected. McCain advocated government action to "halt manmade global warming". Go right down the line on the issues and you can see my point.

I accept responsibility in part for the Bushes, but no more! BTW, Buish was conservative in some areas and not so conservative in others. I don't regard myself as a republican first or even a conservative first. I am Christian first. I am libertarian next. The coelescence of my Christian values and libertarian ideals lead me to be more conservative by today's definition. I am a ReBRO, Republican By Registration Only and will remain such until a viable 3rd party comes along or until the Republican party returns to its roots and casts off its cancerous desire for power and popularity simply for the sake of power and popularity.

as a registered independent liberal
i will not get partisan here but i do believe the 2 party system is the best and i don't want to see republicans fade to black.

so here are conservative/republican voices.

here is david brooks

Republicans are so much the party of individualism and freedom these days that they are no longer the party of community and order. This puts them out of touch with the young, who are exceptionally community-oriented. It gives them nothing to say to the lower middle class, who fear that capitalism has gone haywire. It gives them little to say to the upper middle class, who are interested in the environment and other common concerns.

The Republicans talk more about the market than about society, more about income than quality of life. They celebrate capitalism, which is a means, and are inarticulate about the good life, which is the end. They take things such as tax cuts, which are tactics that are good in some circumstances, and elevate them to holy principle, to be pursued in all circumstances.


here is joe scarborough
The first thing Republicans must do is move past the current definition of conservative. Let's face it. American conservatism is now associated with wasteful spending, military adventurism and ideological conformity. The GOP took a $155 billion surplus and turned it into a $1.5 trillion debt. George W. Bush and the Republican Congress also allowed federal spending to grow at its fastest clip since the Great Society, while adding a $7 trillion burden to a Medicare program already headed toward bankruptcy.

Perhaps most damaging to the Republican brand is the fact that GOP leaders have allowed themselves to be defined too easily as rigid ideologues, blindly faithful to an unyielding agenda. Because of that, Obama has been able to move America dangerously leftward while blaming Republicans for the partisan divide.

If the GOP is to move toward victory, it must again find the middle of American political life and stop being seen the way liberals were viewed for a generation: as tone-deaf ideologues mixed with self-consumed radicals. Don't get me wrong. I do not believe that conservative leaders should seek out a mushy middle ground. Rather, they should boldly call for a new era of responsibility in the U.S.


FeedFwd
Sounds like you have obtained some closure. Cheers

ChristLib

David Brooks isn't someone worth quoting here, as he's as bad as Gerson. Brooks is the NY Times's pet GOPer, and Gerson's the Washington ComPost's pet GOPer. Two liberal peas in a pod.

Here's the real problem:

What we're seeing is the transformation of the GOP from a party of small government principles to one simply concerned with garnering power to itself. By definition, "small government" has little power. The GOP is now more concerned with using the cudgel of government to advance its own agenda -- much of it in the social arena -- and is thus willing to throw its "avowed" principles to the wind.

Further, it's ALSO transforming and redefining those so-called "principles".

Why is gay marriage a national issue? Why was Terri Schaivo a national issue? Why is the fight against abortion a national issue? Those are rightfully state issues. Why did virtually all of the GOPer congresscritters vote for the original "bailout"? Why did Bush impose NCLB and Scrips for Seniors? Why is a FISA court even possible in a free country? Why do we have a Patriot Act? Why did the GOP go along with "affordable housing for minorities"? Why did the GOP back amnesty twice? Why does the GOP concede any credence at all to the Altar Of Gore?

I can go on like that all day.

So, instead of having one statist party and one small government party, we have two statist parties intent on imposing their conflicting views of social issues on the country at large, and jockeying for the power platform from which to do it.

BrianR
You totally nailed it. The GOP listening tour ought to be sitting down and listening to you instead of pretending to care about old women whining about their co-pays.

christianlib, conservatism and
wasteful spending & military adventurism are mutually exclusive. You are right that the GOP is now associated with wasteful spending & military adventurism - because they stopped being conservative.

As for ideological conformity - have you not observed all the debating that goes on between conservatives on this site?

to John/FL on 3rd parties
John, good post...
A couple of alternate thoughts:

You wrote "The real problem with the Republican party is that it got away from its core principles"

I don't think it ever had conservative core principles. The GOP has been mostly a pro-business, progressive, big-government party for the last 110 years at least. Presidents Coolidge and Reagan were the exceptions, and their limited-government efforts were opposed by both the Democrats and blue-blood republicans.

The core principles we talk about the GOP having are really Reagan's principles, not the party's.


John continues: "While I work to restore conservatism within the Republican party (3rd party politics is a dead end IMHO)"

After getting trashed in an election with the most liberal GOP nominee in a long time - maybe ever, we (Gerson, anyway) are still having this debate over whether to move right or left.

The only way the GOP leadership will listen to the conservative base is if they fear losing their votes. We can jump up & down & throw fits & write letters all we want, but when the entire base shows up to vote for the UNACCEPTABLE McCain, while only 0.7% voted for limited-government alternatives, they have no resaon to do what we want.

Third parties are not necessarily about creating a new major party. They can be a great place to register a protest vote. Imagine if Rush & Sean & Neal had encouraged their listeners to vote 3rd party (Libertarian or Constitutional or other limited-govt), and they got 10%. There would not be a debate over which way the GOP should move. And McCain would have lost either way, so don't get started on "wasting a vote".

As a centrist...
I'm personally much more open to Gerson's brand of "Republican." I imagine there are millions and millions just like me in this regard.

Dear "Republican Base": Are you listening? Or, are you covering your ears and running off to the nearest corner to hide from reality?

I don't like this exposing-the-breasts culture we are "living" in, either; but for heaven sakes even Alan Greenspan himself, no stranger to scientific data, looks at this data and says: We need to do something about climate change.

Jack David, how much would CO2 emissions
have to be reduced to stop climate change?

brianr
hey how are you doing.

like i said the only reason i am responding is i think one party control can be bad for our country.

but see even you disparage brooks who has been a staunch republican for years.

do you really want to throw out the moderates like brooks and powell out of the party.

now from my point of view (partisan warning):),

i don't understand the idea that a party which considers the government the problem can than turn around and say "we can govern better".

i honestly think that was one of the problems with bush. because of a disdain for government he put people like brownie in charge.

second, the tax cutting mantra is way over the top.
when times are good you say cut taxes.
when times are bad you say cut taxes.

when revenues fall 40-50%, cutting taxes doesn't make sense until the revenues start coming back.

i know you don't agree but cutting taxes will actually increase that lack of revenue.

anyway, there are some of my opinions.


chris
like i said, those were conservative voices not mine.

you know i see debate here at townhall but i also see too many who want to simply be reinforced in their own ideas.

i have not seen any new ideas though.

as long as limbaugh is unofficially running the party there is a problem.

he doesn't want new ideas, he simply wants reagan redux.

his "i want obama to fail" comment, alienated much of america because if obama fails, america fails.

yet, although reagan cut taxes he also signed 3 tax increases because his tax cuts were running up such a huge debt.

in fact, reagan left office with the largest deficit in american history up till then.

simply saying "cut spending and taxes" is not always the answer.

the american people have seen the need for smarter government not less government.

finally, obama is hugely popular right now and the constant screaming about socialism and facism is turning off millions of americans who think the guy at least deserves a chance.




Republican Values
Republicans had a chance to vote for a candidate that actually believed in small government, lower taxes, restrained spending, a limited but effective military. His name was Ron Paul. He was effectively marginalized in the debates and by the media. Instead the party got behind the awful, hideous McCain and the air-headed Palin. Given the choice between the grumpy, inarticulate, left-leaning McCain and Obama it is no wonder the people voted for Obama. If Republicans really want Ron Paul's values then they should put forth a Ron Paul candidate. The values so many of you commentators are crying out for are the values of Ron Paul!! What kind of sheep are you?

C-Lib doesn't "understand the idea that
a party which considers the government the problem can than turn around and say "we can govern better".

I don't either - other than in the context of Thomas Paine's "That government is best which governs least."

Wendy, ChristLib (and Jack David)

Wendy, thank you. I blush!

ChristLib, frankly, I don't care much about self-labeled "moderates". And the fact that Brooks and Gerson call themselves "Republicans" is meaningless. I can call myself a giraffe, but my neck won't get any longer.

Look at Colin Powell. Hell, look at Specter! He called himself a Repub for decades, but it didn't mean squat, did it?

If the GOP wants to actually mean something other than "Dem-Lite Party", then it has to stop letting "moderates" try to define it.

The door's always open to "moderates" who want to come in and vote for the party (assuming it ever gets back to being something *I* can vote for). This was Reagan's strategy, and it worked wonders. That's why when the GOP actually stands for traditional paleo-conservatism, it wins by landslides. 1980, 1984, 1988, 1994. And when it stand for mushy "moderation", it loses: 1992, 1996, 2006, 2008. Bush 2's two squeakers were against arguably the two most incompetent opponents since Dukakis, in elections in which the gun issue was big.

By definition, "moderates" don't stand for anything. They blow with the wind. If you stand in the middle of the road, you just get run over.

PS, ChristLib

You say one party control is bad for the country. I agree.

The problem is, that's what we've got right now: one party, with simply two branches. The REAL Democrats, and the Dem-Lite Party calling itself the Republicans.


Robert - Reply #32
"Step up and take your share of the blame and your own irresponsibility"

Okay, so instead of Bush, who do you suggest conservatives should've voted for? Gore? Kerry?

One last thing, ChristLib

You wrote: "when revenues fall 40-50%, cutting taxes doesn't make sense until the revenues start coming back."


Here's some Econ 101 for you: cutting taxes is the exact thing that increases economic activity which increases those revenues.

JFK (a Dem) and Reagan (a Repub) BOTH proved it.



If Obama fails at nationalizing banks &
manufacturers, if he fails at nationalizing health care so that it has to be rationed, if he fails at diminishing our ability to protect ourselves, if he fails to get empathetic judges confirmed - rather than those who will uphold the law ...

Then Obama failing would be good for America.

Brutus, I voted for the guy Ron Paul
endorsed. Close enough?

brianr
ok, but the moderates and independents are the ones that voted obama into office.

if you shrink to only conservatives, it will be difficult to win national elections.

responses to C-Lib
CL: "i have not seen any new ideas though."

I'm a conservative. We generally prefer old ideas - like those found in the Bible and in our Constitution. Moving away from those to progressive "new ideas" is what screwed things up in the first place.

CL: "...reagan cut taxes he also signed 3 tax increases"

Huh? He dropped the top rate from 70% to 28% in stages over his presidency. The bottom rate went from 14% starting at $5500 to 15% at $31k, so the drop was for everyone, not just "the rich". Remind me again when he raised taxes?

"... because [Reagan's] tax cuts were running up such a huge debt."

The spending was running up the debt. As BrianR already pointed out, when the tax rate is too high (like 70%, for example), cutting the rate increases the revenue. We saw that in the early 1960s, the 1980s, and after W's cuts that mostly went into effect after 2003.

CL: "in fact, reagan left office with the largest deficit in american history up till then."

As an absolute number, yes. As a % of GDP - the only meaningful way to measure it - the deficits were much higher in WWII when we were fighting totalitarians. Reagan was also fighting totalitarians, but won without killing millions of people. Plus, as I already mentioned, his limited-government agenda on the domestic front was opposed by most Dems and many Repubs - who spent much more on non-defence than Reagan wanted.


As for giving Obama a chance, his ideas have already been tried and failed. No need to try them again.

Moderates more talking than listening
The faces of the NCNA; John McCain - moderate, Haley Barbour - moderate, Mitt Romney - moderate, another Bush, and Jindal.

80% of the "faces" of the NCNA are moderates. How have moderates worked out for the party so far?

What's that old Einstein saying about doing the same things over and expecting different results?

I saw more talking from these people than listening. I guess that keeps them from hearing the conservative base (that provides most of the money and does most of the work) telling them that we don't need no stinking RINOs....

Reagan won by running on his
principles, and convincing people that his principles were the best choice for the country. He brought "moderates and independents" to his side, rather than compromising his principles.

That's called ....

Leadership

BrianR
Your sharp brian. Good posts to a thorny problem (no pun intended). Odd, I would not have believed you are from Ca, must be a transplant (I know, broad brush and all). I think most agree that brand (Repub/Dem) means little as witnessed over the last few decades. People need to quit being so hung up on being labeled as one or the other and just use their heads for something other than a hatrack when voting. I personally don't give a rats patootie what letter is behind a representitives name as long as he/she uses good sound judgement while in office. That is in short suppply now and it shows but we, the people put them there and we can take them out if we want. Sounds like you should run in Ca, they could sure use some clear thinking there. Hopefully, we can find a real leader soon to rally the troops so to speak. I'm sure they are out there, we just have to look. Once we find one the voters will rally around them. I don't think we (conservatives) are as fragmented as libs would like to think. Yes we fuss a lot but it only takes that one spark of a good leader to corral us all around them.

brian r
i will have to disagree on that point.

i have looked extensively at this and the statistics just don't bear it out.

for example less taxes on capital gain does not mean increased revenue.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/2089.html

and then there is this

In 1981, Congress approved very large supply-side tax cuts, dramatically lowering marginal income-tax rates. In 1990 and 1993, by contrast, Congress raised marginal income-tax rates on the well off. Despite the very different tax policies followed during these two decades, there was virtually no difference in real per-person economic growth in the 1980s and 1990s. Real per-person revenues, however, grew about twice as quickly in the 1990s, when taxes were increased, as in the 1980s, when taxes were cut. (See Figure 1.)

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=165

ChristLib

Obambi won because a ton of people sat it out or voted third party.

When a REAL Reagan-type runs, you see voter registrations soar, and people flocking to the polls in droves to support him.

When the McLiberals of the world run, you hear a huge collective yawn.

ESPECIALLY when that candidate doesn't differ substantively from the Obambi. What was the difference between them, other than on matters of degree? They essentially agreed on EVERYTHING.

THAT'S not going to motivate anybody who's conservative to get registered and go vote, that's for sure.



Daniel....Hahahahaha!

Thanks, man.

Yeah, I'm originally from Maryland, but that was in another era.

Actually and surprisingly enough, there really are a lot of conservatives out here. This is the land where Reagan was Governor, after all!

But the problem here in Commiefornia is that the GOP is much further down the road of conversion into a wing of the Dems, and we're not given any options at all that are palatable.

But we passed Prop 8, don't forget.

During the Gray Davis recall election -- when Ah-nuld Schitzenheader was still trying to pass himself off as conservative -- he won by a landslide (turned out that in Commiefornia, many conservatives also happen to be suckers, I guess), so when the option's there, it wins even HERE.


chris
first thanks for your civil responses.

for some reason, some conservatives have invented this whole myth about reagan, much of which is not supported by facts.

here is bruce bartlett, reagans communications director.

Reagan may have resisted calls for tax increases, but he ultimately supported them. In 1982 alone, he signed into law not one but two major tax increases. The Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act (TEFRA) raised taxes by $37.5 billion per year and the Highway Revenue Act raised the gasoline tax by another $3.3 billion.

According to a recent Treasury Department study, TEFRA alone raised taxes by almost 1 percent of the gross domestic product, making it the largest peacetime tax increase in American history. An increase of similar magnitude today would raise more than $100 billion per year.

In 1983, Reagan signed legislation raising the Social Security tax rate. This is a tax increase that lives with us still, since it initiated automatic increases in the taxable wage base. As a consequence, those with moderately high earnings see their payroll taxes rise every single year.

In 1984, Reagan signed another big tax increase in the Deficit Reduction Act. This raised taxes by $18 billion per year or 0.4 percent of GDP. A similar-sized tax increase today would be about $44 billion.

http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_bartlett/bartlett2003102 90853.asp

finally, you assume you know that obama's ideas won't work, just like some conservatives said clinton raising taxes would destroy the economy.

it did not, in fact, revenues increased more under clinton than when reagan cut taxes.

so to say it has been tried is simply conservative dogma and a cliche.

obama is much more pragmatic than most conservatives give him credit for.



brianr
250000 republicans changed their party affliation to democrat before the last election.

most studies of the results concluded that the independents and moderates put him over the top.


ChristLib

Buddy, I have to tell you, agree with me or not, you're flat-out wrong.

You can't just cherry-pick the capital gains tax and claim you've made your case. That's absurd, frankly.

Look at overall taxation: sales, gas, income, business, inheritance, property, and all the rest of them. The higher the tax burden on an economy AS A WHOLE, the lower the productivity plunges AS A WHOLE.

All you have to do is look right here at Commiefornia. This state's the highest-taxed in the nation... and we're BANKRUPT! Companies are fleeing this Titanic of a state in droves. Unemployment's up over 10% statewide, and even higher in LA County (which has even MORE taxes).

IN SPITE of the massive tax increase in Feb to solve a $42 BILLION shortfall, we're STILL an additional $8-10 BILLION short JUST SINCE THEN. And that's forecast to rise even further!


Hmmm interesting about Reagan and
tax increases. I was only looking at income tax rates. I will look into this more.

I will say this - I totally support higher gas taxes IF they are offset by lower taxes elsewhere. I thing the entire cost of maintaining our roads and related infrastructure should be funded from gas taxes, so that the users of the roads are paying for them.


On Clinton - I didn't think he was going to destroy the economy - I just thought higher tax rates would slow the economy. And it did - we had a recession that started at the end of Clinton's term.

I credit the founding fathers for the generally good economic times in the 1990s. We mostly had divided government where they had trouble getting much of anything done. And when gov't doesn't get anything done, that's a good day.


I agree about Obama being more pragmatic than many think he is - I don't think he wants to destroy the country. I just think he's misguided.

ChristLib

"250000 republicans changed their party affliation to democrat before the last election."

Yeah. So what? One Senator did the same thing AFTER the election.

Maybe if the GOP actually got back to its Reagan roots, you'd see large numbers of people registering as GOPers.

I'm actually re-registering as an Independant so I can run against my incumbent GOP Representative next year.

As a CONSERVATIVE.

christianlib says "250000 republicans
changed their party affliation to democrat before the last election."

Google "Operation Chaos" and get back to us.

Thomas,
I'll give you a pass in 2000, but not in 2004. The handwriting was on the wall.

PS, ChristLib

I didn't say that "moderates" et al DIDN'T put Obambi over the top.

What I said is that it's irrelevant, as there wasn't any meaningful distinction between the candidates, and tons of people simply sat it out or voted third party.


BrianR, running against an incumbent!
Almost makes me wish I lived in CA so I could vote for you!

But not quite...

Gotta say

If I hadn't decided to vote for Barr, I wouldn't have voted for either of those sorry losers.


Hahahaha, Chris!

Dude, I knoooooow what you mean!


Conservatives ARE moderates
I am so sick of this "appeal to moderates" BS.

There are two extreems a society can go in, tyranny or anarchy. Call it left/right, up/down, what have you.

What modern liberalism, and thus the democrats, represents is a fast track to tyranny. Greater government control in our lives.

What Republicans (not conservatives) represent is a slow track to tyranny.

Conservatives are the healthy ballance between tyranny and anarchy. We respect individual freedoms, while at the same respecting the rule of law. That is why we hold the constitution in such high regards.

The so called "moderates" are simply wishy washy, with no desire to take a stand.

Most people, of all ethnicites, are conservative, not moderate.

Oh and GOP, if you want to listen, watch footage from the Tea Parties. That is all you need to hear about what we want.

Gee Gerson
You must enjoy using the constitution for toilet paper.

Where's the barf bag. I think I'm gonna be sick.

"Republicans have distinctive contributions to make on climate policy. They might support a carbon tax instead of a cumbersome cap-and-trade system."

Yea, that's the ticket. More taxes. Let's tax everyone who breathes since they are spewing "pollutants" into the otherwise pristine air.


"A credible Republican alternative would employ a more generous refundable tax credit that enables the working poor to purchase basic health insurance"

Notice the liberal style terms like "working poor".

"But it is difficult to imagine a remedy to this impression of resentment without Republican support for immigration reform that includes a legal status for temporary workers and a realistic path to citizenship."

Oh no. Illegals resent us. The shame of it all. So how many illegals vote nowadays?

Why is Gerson here? Why is he sooo delusional as to think he's a conservative or anything close to what a republican should be?







Brain R
Dop you have any publicaitons or data that supprot the idea that meaningful numbers of conservatives sat out the election?

Baradiel
Yup. The Republican "moderates" are actually leftards. RINOs.

What's being called "Republican Conservatives", though, I'd say is split between conservatives and moderates.

Speaking of "splitting", I'm glad to see that the Republicans split gun control and birth control. Tying them together probably allowed the Clinton Criminal Bill of '94 to pass.

LOL
Finally a column that makes sense and no one likes it. The truth hurts.

Gerson
You ran a candidate that fits your "Republican" profile to a "T" for president and he LOST!

Did you miss the entire presidential campaign? Were you "off-world" somewhere?

Global warming - and if it is happening the significant contributor is the sun; not man.

Immigrants - I am one. I came here LEAGALLY. The issue is about condoning felonies (illegal entry, falsified documents, Soc Sec theft). We are a land of laws believe it or not!

Republicans like irrelevance?
What? You mean $500 tennis shoes, mustard choices, and beauty pageants aren't an important part of the national discourse????

Could have fooled me.

Well said, Baradiel!
.

john
' I do not support the liberal-lite moderates that advocate "moving to the center" "

Horrors!! Why coalesce on issues that will bring the country together when you can whine and struggle to make it a perfect mirror image of yourself??

Spoken like a good conservative, John. You're a credit to your sub-culture.

Baradiel: Conservatives are NOT Moderate
When you say they are you are speaking in a general sense, not a political one.

Todays political conservatives in the mold of the Limbaughs, Malkin, Coulter, Hannity, Sowell, Buchanon and others incorporates a rigidly inflexible right wing ideology, dogma, propaganda and rhetoric that is totally inclusive to those that think only as they do.

They suffer no "moderates/rino's" who they declare are not "real" republicans, suggesting they should be banished from the party and are the sole reason the gop is losing elections because they lack conservative "purity".

As long as the gop remains inflexible and cannot adjust the reality of a shifting electorate and dependent on enegizing just it's base conservatives, the gop will remain the minority party for some time to come in the future.

With 1000s on the right taking
to the streets (first ever--the lefft has always owned the streets, which is why the MSM was so flabbergastged)

altho' not all Reps. and not all cons., but all opposed to King Elect O and his vision of O Land The Reps. have a great opportunity.

Reps. are the only existing org. with the infrastructure in place to fight the Dems. Reps. are already on all ballots and in all counties of the US.

Reps. now have to stop the O admin. and its socializing of Am. in Cong., but they also need to get back on message: personal resp., free trade, strong foreign policy, the rule of law, support for business, low taxation, less gov't.

They could use some new messages including the Libertarian legalizing drugs (and tax them), withdrawing as many standing troops as possible from Germany, Japan, Korea, etc. so we don't send just all those salaries overseas, and flat tax or fair tax reform.

Sure, John from PA

In the 2008 election, a bit less than 120 million people cast votes.

According to the 2000 census (the latest data available) there were 209,279,149 people in the country of voting age.

Do the math. Only HALF the people of voting age cast a vote in that election.

Take it a step further. Let's be generous and say 20 million were illegal aliens. Throw out another TEN million as disqualified for other reasons.

That still leaves over 179 million, of which only 120 million cast votes.

59 million SAT IT OUT.

http://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2000/briefs/phc-t31 /index.html






PS, John

According to the reliable polling data, over 60% of people polled self-identify as "conservative".

The obvious conclusion is that a VERY large percentage of that number who sat it out are conservatives.

And again, that's reinforced by the landslide margins by which truly conservative Reaganite candidates win when they run.

The term "conservative" is not to be confused or conflated with "Republican", btw.

Those are overlapping sets, not the same set, if you know your math theory.


Why Listen to Liberals and RINOs
What a drip!

Why anyone, let alone the GOP, listen to such drivel from the left?

Why would they want to help the GOP? They don't.

They are afraid that if the GOP finally gets some guts and put up a fight, the Dems are toast. That's why they are filling the media with these lies about Republicans.

Republicans have the moral high-ground already. All they have to do is get some backbone and stick to their conservative roots.

Left Angle
Part of what makes me skeptical about the names you mention (Limbaugh, Malkin, etc.) is that there is an entire layer of economics that is inherent to conservatism - it pays high mortgages for literally hundreds of radio jockeys, who figured out long ago that the more conservative they can sound to their audiences, the more money they make, and as they become more prominent, their stock goes way up. I realize that there is also left-wing media but it's like David to the righties' Goliath. I think these guys (including Coulter) also realized long ago that the right is fueled by easy emotion and rage, and they have become good (and wealthy) by learning how to tap into it.

Ny point is, this is to some extent an illusory entity, created and driven to cash in on conservative dollars. Who is telling whom what to think and say is an open question.

I assume this guy believes
Global Warming is man-made. I also assume he is a scientist since he portrays the evidence as something he understands.

I am a scientist as well and I do not see the evidence. Call me an extremist if you want but i used to believe global warming was man-made. Recent data has shown a trend the other way. The next year or two worth of data will bring this trend to light for sure.

Left Slant
Nothing is more rigid than the left-wing, extremist, socialist party line.

You have to be pro-abortion, you have to be pro-homosexual agenda, you have to be anti-American history and any wars, you have to be pro-name calling and ad hominem attacks, you have to think the BBC is the mostest elitist form of news reportage, and you have to hate the Bush administration.

I left the left, the Dem. Party, in the late '80s because the abortion requirement became also supporting late-term abortion which is murder. I also did not believe homosexuality, an unfixed expression of human behavior, qualified for civil rights laws, and still don't.

If you think the right is demanding, you have never visited kos or movealong with their obscenities and aberrant rants.

You have also never spent an evening in DC with a bunch of Hahvhad and Yahlie grads, all gov't employees for life, and listened to how bad their lives are in their multi-million-dollar houses and the high cost of Sidwell for their kids and wherever are they going to vacation where the natives won't interfere with their dearly bought leisure.

Since I have relatives who are personal friends of the Clintons (who even left jobs because they expected to be working for Hill right now), I know exactly what progressives and their mantras are.

Aposematic: a question
you stated:

"Republicans have the moral high-ground already. All they have to do is get some backbone and stick to their conservative roots."

If we accept your hypothesis (and thats a stretch) how in the world is the gop going to win national elections with a coalition of conservatives "only"?

Left Angle
"When you say they are you are speaking in a general sense, not a political one."

Wrong, what I was describing was political.

"Todays political conservatives in the mold of the Limbaughs, Malkin, Coulter, Hannity, Sowell, Buchanon and others incorporates a rigidly inflexible right wing ideology, dogma, propaganda and rhetoric that is totally inclusive to those that think only as they do."

Wrong again. Those "right wingers" advocate the same position that I was stating, They want to see a scaled down government, and more control given to the individual person, while at the same time demanding individual responsibility and the rule of law.

"They suffer no "moderates/rino's" who they declare are not "real" republicans, suggesting they should be banished from the party and are the sole reason the gop is losing elections because they lack conservative "purity"."

As I said before, those aren't moderates. And of course they shouldn't "suffer" them. They are destroying this party, because they give the people a choice between liberal, or libral lite.

"As long as the gop remains inflexible and cannot adjust the reality of a shifting electorate and dependent on enegizing just it's base conservatives, the gop will remain the minority party for some time to come in the future."

Do you honestly think the majority of the electorate wants heavy handed government intrusion? Do you think the majority of the electorate wants to pay more for everything from food to energy?

I have already told you how the GOP will come back in 2010 and 2012. Twice. Of course, all you did was plug your ears and stamp your feet while chanting "HOPENCHANCE HOPENCHANGE HOPENCHANGE".

Enough, Mr. Gerson
Your advice to Republicans is worth approximately what it cost--nothing.

Any Republican who supports either a carbon tax or cap and trade; universal, government-paid health care and/or conferring legal status on illegal aliens and providing them a "path to citizenship" without first securing our borders thereby demonstrating that we never will have to go through this kind of bogus "reform" again will get neither my support nor my vote.

The Republican party you would have is merely Democrat Lite and I'll have none of it.


Brian R...
...You sound like me,man,but I DID vote for Barr!The first time in my voting life (since 1956) that I didn't vote straight Republican.I don't regret it one bit.

Left Dangle
"If we accept your hypothesis (and thats a stretch) how in the world is the gop going to win national elections with a coalition of conservatives "only"?"

Well, when 60 some percent of the country consider themselves conservative, looks like we should do ok.

A big part of Repub image problem
are the responses to Gerson. He writes an intelligent, well thought out column and instead of saying you disagree, people just label him an idiot. Kudos to John in PA -- you're absolutely correct. Gerson's points are excellent and so was David Brooks' column. The right-wing combative, angry message just doesn't resonate with people today. As painful as this is to hear, most people are pro-choice, pro-full rights for gay people, pro -equal rights. You can defend your position all you want but the repubs today either need to alter their message or go down swinging, but if they choose the latter, they will be wiped out, just because the more the years go by, the more their ideas become archaic. We NEED a two party system, not the Democratic party and the Angry Nutcase party.

one day of life
"I think these guys (including Coulter) also realized long ago that the right is fueled by easy emotion and rage, and they have become good (and wealthy) by learning how to tap into it."

Actually, they make very cogent, coherant arguments for the conservative position. Yes, they can get passionate, but who can't? Of course, they never say something as elegant as "they are just a bunch of tea baggin rednecks". Gee, I can't understand why liberal radio shows can't compete with deep thoughts like that.

Go ahead and call up one of those shows, and debate them. As long as you can make a rational statement, they will let you talk. Mark Levin's number is 866-381-3811. Laura Ingraham's number is 800-876-4123. My bet is, of course, that you never have actually tuned in.

Now, if you want to see fueling emotion and rage, look no farther than your own party. Obama pretty much ran on "get those evil rich people". Heck, just look at the press dinner. He was laughing at a woman who wished death on a private citizen for expressing an opposing viewpoint to your dear leader.

Time will tell
The people holding all the cards often have a short memory of being on the losing end of a hand.

Six short years ago the Democratic Party was in roughly the same shape the Republicans are in now. The Dem's came back and so will the Republicans.

The party is now in need of some leaders and additional political base; they are well aware of both needs.

Turmoil will be followed with a sense of purpose and dedication by 2010, count on it.

These issues will be resolved

Nam 65

Yeah, I voted for Barr, too!

And like you, I'm happy as hell that I did.

The only difference is that here at the state level, I've already voted third-party a couple of other times. I didn't vote for Lundgren when he ran for Governor, nor for Schitzenheader either time HE ran.

BrianR (Nam 69-70)

who in the heck?
Who is this Gerson guy and where does he come from, outer space? He doesn't seem to have the Republican party's best interests at heart if he wants us to be just a little more like the democrats. So those of us who think the global warming hoax which has morphed into the climate change hoax should not be paid for by we tax payers are now to say, " Let's tax them on carbon?" What a crock. If it is false, why should we be funding it? I don't get the liberal mindset. Everything has a tax bill and if it doesn't, the democrats find a way to tax it. We the people are taxed out. We don't want to start paying for the air we breathe also.

Gerson is deluded
It may be difficult to imagine, but the Dems went through the same "soul-searching" after the 2004 elections. Most forget that the "experts" thought they found the new demographic goldmine in what they dubbed the "value voters" (Gerson take note) and NASCAR Dads. Their polling also showed that the GOP was winning over voters under 35 in large amounts, and that voter identification was going to the GOP 45 to 32. Democratic strategists loudly bemouned the fact that the Democratic Party was losing touch with Middle America -that they become the party of the effette, wealthy, trustfunders.

My how things changed. But did they? Nope. What did occur was a series of serious mis-steps or miscalculations by Bush43 and the GOP, beginning with the War in Iraq. The biggest thing that changed in 2005 was the body count, followed by Katrina, follwed by a series of GOP Scandals or non-scandals. The MSM piled on, and the Democrats took full advantage of the opening.

We are still seeing the Dems press. But, of course they are overstepping. The GOP isn't self-destructing. This infighting is a sign of health. The Dems are setting themselves up for a series of defeats. Obama is loved now, but wait until 2010.

The gay marriage thing isn't going away thanks in large part to the gay activists. Funny that the 2 biggest racial groups who vehemently oppose gay marriage are africn-americans and hispanics. I guess fundies and catholics can unite. Then there's the unemployment numbers (inching towards 10%), and the possibility of a huge ($3000/year) tax increase on energy, and a return of HillaryCare via Obama. No, conservative, value voters are still out there. And Gerson hasn't a clue of what he speaks about.

Nonsense, Terry!

You just make absurd claims as if they were fact: "most people are pro-choice, pro-full rights for gay people, pro -equal rights."

Really? Then why did Prop 8 pass in Commiefornia, one of the most "liberal" states in the country?

The only thing keeping abortion-on-demand legal in a preponderance of the states is Roe, a complete arrogation to itself by SCOTUS of an issue that's rightfully to the states to decide.

Gay people already have full rights; they can marry whatever person they like from the opposite sex, just like everyone else.

You guys on the Left are amazing. Really.

Baraliel: Good Luck
the GOP has a serious image problem. Only 21% of the american public identify themselves as
"republican". repubs/cons are seen as anti minority, homophobic, racist,white male supremist sexist religious fanatics.

I think you said yesterday, you need "articulate pure conservatives" as spokesmen to get your message across.

INHO i don't think it really matters how "articulate" your candidates are..
the conservative message has been handily rejected by the majority and will continue to
be because of the reasons I stated above on your "image" problem.

Katepatate

You wrote: "We don't want to start paying for the air we breathe also."

Too late!

Haven't you heard the latest? Taxes on CO2? The very air we exhale.


This also ran in Politico.
and predictably enough, the Soc/Libs thought it was great.

Anybody who lets their opposition pick their leaders deserves every loss that they suffer.

We're a lot smarter than they can conceivably imagine.

Our socialist trolls prove this every day.

terry
No, the problem with republicans is they followed the advice of Gerson, and look what it got us.

"As painful as this is to hear, most people are pro-choice, pro-full rights for gay people, pro -equal rights."

The number of people who are pro life is rising. No conservative is against equal rights, and most people are against gay marriage. That is why gay marriage was defeated in state after state last election, inlcuding California.

And John in PA is an idiot. Anyone that thinks that conservatives have a problem with racism is a moron, especially with a statement like "most racists are conservative" and "racists will become the voice of the party". That is complete BS, and obviously someone who can't be taken seriously. We are not the one constantly playing racial politics, we are not the ones who have a racially exclusive caucus in congress, nor are we the ones who support racial quotas.

Excuse me Mr. Gerson
The democrats are cutting their own throat every day. I don't think they realize much less care how angry we the people are right now. Every day we have a new assault on our freedoms and a new tax to have to pay. Obama's government is taking over everything and now they are going to mess with our healthcare which is, by the way, the best in the world. When has the government ever managed anything well? Maybe the military but that is just because they more or less leave the fighting to the generals and the men and women on the field. I see micromanaged health care with the government telling us what doctor to go to, what to eat for our health, whether we can have procedures done. No intelligent man or woman will want to work years to get a medical license to then have the government telling them who and how they can tend people. I see a massive rush to the polls in 2010 and most democrats and many namby pampy republicans losing their seats.

Left Angle, you make the same
mistake so many others do: "Only 21% of the american public identify themselves as
'republican'."

Completely correct, but your conclusion is fatally flawed.

Hell, *I* don't identify myself as a "Republican", either. I identify myself as a "conservative"... as do over 60% of the rest of the American populace.

You, like so many others, conflate "Republican" and "conservative", and as I've already said, the two often aren't at all alike.

The GOP's losing members like crazy as real conservatives leave in disgust, while the percentage of the Dems remains static at about 35%.

What does that tell us?


Brian
I should have added another hint. Being transparently stupid will not help you garner the votes of people who have any brains.

I asked whether you had any information about the number of conservatives who sat out. Perhaps I should have been more specific. Do you have any substantial information that indicates a conservative failure to get to the polls had an impact on the voting totals?

Let me help you. It appears that the Republican candidate received 62 million votes in 2004. In 2008, the Republican received 57 million votes. A drop of 5 million.

But, the Democrat in 2004 received 49 million in 2004 and 65 million in 2008 an increase of 16 million.

Even if everyone who voted R in 2004 voted R in 2008, the Democrat still would have outpolled hte Republican by 3 million votes.

Based on the actual data, can you conclude that Conservatives staying home changed the course of the election?




So Left Angle: Have you YET found where

in the US Constitution... including the Amendments... it provides authorization for Obozo to extort private enterprise?



Terry
I don't know where you get your stats, but it sounds like typical liberal propaganda. I don't believe for one second that the majority of people are pro-choice or pro-gay marriage. Also when the young people start seeing their tax bills rise and the senior citizens start to see their social security disappearing, you will see a huge swing back to the right. Many did not vote for Obama because they knew what he was for or against. Heck, even my daughter thought he was actually going to lower taxes. Those lower taxes you think you are getting this year? You will be paying for them the next three. Most people voted for "change" whatever Obama meant by that. Change is beginning to sound pretty crappy pardon my French.

Left Angle
"the GOP has a serious image problem. Only 21% of the american public identify themselves as
"republican". repubs/cons are seen as anti minority, homophobic, racist,white male supremist sexist religious fanatics."

Odd, considering that
A: Twice since Obama's election, people have stated over all that they would vote for republicans over dems, and

B: 60 some percent consider themselves conservatives.

Those are the steriotypes that your ilk likes to push. Most people are not that gullable.

"I think you said yesterday, you need "articulate pure conservatives" as spokesmen to get your message across."

What I said was someone who can articulate conservative values, which happens to be what most people share.

"INHO i don't think it really matters how "articulate" your candidates are..
the conservative message has been handily rejected by the majority and will continue to
be because of the reasons I stated above on your "image" problem."

Wrong. Conservative values win. We didn't run a conservative, nor did we have a conservative in office the last eight years. People like you can't seem to tell the difference between republicans and conservatives. But you are a liberal, and a democrat, so I don't expect you to be able to tell the difference between a party and a political philosophy, when your party has been so completly taken over by liberalsim.

Brian R
You're right and it makes me sick. I am going to have to start holding my breath I guess.

grrr, I stopped reading this stupid arti
WHY DO REPUBLICANS HAVE TO IMBRACE CLIMATE CHANGE??? Stupid, stupid stupid. Leed on the truth and people will follow!

Baradiel
Sorry, those are all the same, tired, repetitive arguments for the right.

As far as "debating" on a talk show, you are demonstrating the naivete I was just talking about - when was the last time you heard an actual "debate" on Limbaugh? Get used to it, pal, those radio jockeys hold the off-switch, and if the debate starts to detract from the message, it's dumped. Further, an actual debate would not be interesting to conservative listeners and after a few sentences its aborted. Radio people like Ingraham have one goal - to keep discontented greivance-collecting listeners tuned in. That's what advertisers look for, that, and only that, is what drives the content.


brian r: then please explain
why you repubs/cons keep losing national elections?

Anne
It is under the O ammendment, don't you read the news?

"The government, nor the people, shall make no action that impeeds the will of Obama, nor shall they hurt his feelings."