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Friday, November 09, 2007
Michael  Franc :: Townhall.com Columnist
SCHIP's Path for Illegal Immigrants
by Michael Franc
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Amid all the chaos on Capitol Hill -- a possible vote to impeach Vice President Dick Cheney one day, shenanigans over the annual spending bills the next -- one constant has been the prolonged, backroom negotiation over the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP).

Presiding over the negotiations are powerful House Democrats such as House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) and maverick Republican Sens. Chuck Grassley (Iowa) and Orrin Hatch (Utah). Across the table sit two dozen House Republicans who have indicated a willingness to “negotiate” over such issues as whether a program designed to deliver health coverage to children in families slightly above the poverty level should cover adults, children from middle-class families earning more than $62,000, and illegal immigrants.

Yes, illegal immigrants.

This last issue promises to be the most difficult one to resolve. And it points to the resiliency of immigration-related issues, especially those that involve spending taxpayer dollars.

Democratic pollsters James Carville and Stanley Greenberg believe voter concerns over illegal immigration explain much of the current voter discontent. These concerns have created what they call “a welfare moment.”

“Just as many workers with moderate incomes, uncertain employment and health insurance could not understand why they were being taxed to subsidize the long-term idleness of those on welfare,” Carville and Greenberg write, “many Americans are just as perplexed that this country has lost control of the borders and winks at illegal employment, taxing the resources of local schools and hospitals.” The frustration extends to health care. One voter lamented: “We can’t afford to do anything because we’re paying for health insurance,” yet illegal immigrants “just go in and get it free.”

The last thing lawmakers want to do in this heated environment is create a new health benefit for illegal immigrants even as millions of native-born American children remain uninsured. Because the issue is “binary” -- an illegal is either eligible for health services or is barred from receiving benefits; no middle ground exists -- it doesn’t lend itself to traditional legislative logrolling.

And that’s where the political hand-wringing begins.

“House Democratic leaders,” Congressional Quarterly reports, “may have only limited flexibility to negotiate” because liberals, black and Hispanic members “have already expressed frustration that the bill Bush vetoed was itself a compromise.” When rumors circulated that House leaders were contemplating language to require tough proof-of-citizenship requirements for SCHIP enrollees, representatives of the several race-based congressional caucuses as well as other “progressive” members jumped into action. They sent Speaker Nancy Pelosi a strongly-worded letter warning against further concessions, especially, CQ reported, “on immigration issues.”

“We are deeply concerned,” they wrote, “by the continued compromises we may be asked to make on behalf of our communities.” “Such compromises,” they warned, “cause us to question our support for the overall package.”

These members like the vetoed SCHIP bill because it would weaken the citizenship and identity verification requirements in current law to prevent illegal immigrants from enrolling in SCHIP. Current law places the burden on citizens and nationals to provide the documentation necessary to prove their citizenship and their eligibility for programs such as SCHIP.

Under the vetoed bill, states would be required simply to run the names and Social Security numbers of applicants through a national database. But, according to Michael Astrue, the Commissioner of the Social Security Administration, this approach would “create a conclusive presumption [that a person is a citizen] based on less reliable data.” This approach, he explains, wouldn’t detect legal aliens who are not naturalized citizens. Nor would it verify that the person submitting the information is who he says he is, whether he is fraudulently using another person’s valid name and Social Security number, or whether he has illegally overstayed a work visa.

Other than that, it’s foolproof!

With memories of last spring’s national uprising against the Senate’s comprehensive immigration bill still fresh, wavering Republicans fear a potential backlash from constituents should they agree to open the door even a little on this issue.

This episode underscores the need for standard legislative language barring illegal immigrants from receiving federal benefits of any kind. Such language could easily be adapted to any bill that reauthorizes or expands an existing federal program, or creates a new one. Over time, such language would provide a “Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval” against loophole-ridden provisions such as those now in SCHIP.

The “welfare moment,” it seems, has arrived.

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About The Author

A long-time veteran of Washington policymaking, Mike Franc oversees Heritage's outreach to members of the U.S. House and Senate and their staffs.

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my 2 cents
The welfare moment has arrived and the repubs seem to have called the dem's bluff with the impeachment issue.

This is getting very interesting.

Will they ever give up?
First it was 26 yearolds and families making 62,000 a year, now it's illegal aliens. And the dims wonder why it gets vetoed. Are they completely dense? I guess starting tommorro I start E-mailing and monday start calling again as we can't let this go by unchallenged. We have to let them know it's NO,NO,NO again. Start threatening some jobs and they'll listen.

SEAL THE BORDER BEFORE WE SEAL OUR FATE!!!
HUNTER/TANCREDO "08"

Amazing!
It just gets worse everyday! I cannot believe we have members of congress who continue to lobby on behalf of illegal immigrants for anything other than a one way bus ticket back to tijuana!





Tom Price co-sponsors SCHIP
Price co-sponsors SCHIP alternative

As Congressman Price describes his proposed health care plan in the Cherokee Ledger, it is a first step toward free healthcare for all. If the government starts paying for catastrophic healthcare (an idea that Price says his bill opens the door to), it is only a matter of time before it picks up the whole tab. Paying for preventive medicine is cheaper than paying for catastrophic results, thus governments will, in the future, start providing full coverage to save money.

I think Tom’s heart may be in the right place on this issue, but if we do not make people pay something how can we afford this? My solution of mandatory payment from for those who can afford it, and partial payment based on income for people who cannot, is tough medicine but is more realistic.

CL-The same day the U.S. House failed to override the president’s Oct. 3 veto on the bipartisan bill that would reauthorize the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), another piece of legislation was introduced Oct. 17 sponsored in part by a Cherokee legislator.

“If Georgia wanted to institute a program that provided for catastrophic insurance for all folks without health insurance, then they would be able to do that,” Price said.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/rep-price-free-hea thcare-for-all





An Idea With Merit
Make the illegal trespassers pay for our health care. That'll send 'em packing. I will gladly pay a tax for the illegal's .............bus ticket to the border. What part of ILLEGAL do people not understand? Are our schools that bad? I GOTTA go throw up.

Anchor Babies Away
Perhaps I am wrong, but it would seem to me that the millions of anchor babies in our country already qualify for SCHIP despite the fact that their parents are illegals -- right?!? So in essence, American taxpayers are already serving illegals in this unconstitutional program. That of course is not to say that I want to see the program expanded to cover the illegal children of illegals as the Democrats wish.

If this SCHIP expansion bill were to get passed with exclusionary language for illegals, how long would it be before some judge rules it unconstitutional? No doubt the overall program would survive, but then of course our illegal "brethern" would have to be covered.

Chip
Take a chip out of a concrete dam and soon you have a bigger chip, then a small leak, then a bigger leak then a flood.This bill in Georgia is just a chip in the dam. Pass it and soon comes the flood. Total health care nation wide. Hope your wallet can take it, I'm not so sure about mine.

SEAL THE BORDER BEFORE WE SEAL OUR FATE!!!!!
HUNTER/TANCREDO "08"

the real difference
Obviously there is something misleading about this way of framing the debate. As described, the law will not alllow illegal immigrants to get Schip funding legally. There is some sleight of hand above to suggest it does, but interestingly it plays on the fact that people who claim that they are bothered by illegal immigration are really bothered by legal immigration as well.

The question that seems to differentiate democrats and republicans is whether it is more important to give protection to everyone who deserves it, or to make sure noone gets protection who doesn't. Democrats would rather risk some people getting benefits they are not entitled to if it makes sure that everyone gets protection who should. Republicnas would rather risk that some people not get protection that they are entitled to, to make sure noone gets insurance that he does not qualify for.

It is a question whether one is more concerned with punishing the bad guys or with protecting the least among us.


Bingo!
Lon writes: "the fact that people who claim that they are bothered by illegal immigration are really bothered by legal immigration as well."

[subject]

Try this one for size: Let's say we could guarantee, come what may, that an illegal getting a license would never be able to use it to gain the benefits of citizens. And let's also say that the illegal bears the full cost of producing the license.

Would the people here go for it? Would they discount the fact that with a license _at least some_ illegals might get insurance? That greater penalties can be levied on people that drive without one?

Not on your life. See lon's quote.

Let Mexico Provide Healthcare
We need to stop this insanity. I can’t believe the mentality of these politicians.

We no longer have what use to be called absolutes. There is a right and a wrong.
We use to think that God was the only one who could determine what was right and wrong, so His absolutes were the rule by which we measured ourselves.

Today we seem to pull what’s right out of the thin air.

We talk of justice, yet fail to practice it. We talk of equity, but don’t mind penalizing those who work hard to obtain wealth by over taxing to give to those who refuse to work, or who apparently break the laws of our country.

We talk of tolerance, but only for those who are not Christian.

We have many models to judge nationalized healthcare by. They all fail to give you much more than a clinic in your average health department provides.

What puzzles me is that local health departments are nationalized healthcare. You pay what you can afford to pay. The service is terrible, but what do you expect from a government run program.

The only people that should be entitled to federal or state benefits should be those who are citizens, period.

CONTINUED

Let Mexico Provide Healthcare

Mexico should be providing healthcare for there citizens. If I travel to another country, I would assume that my health insurance would cover emergency medical care until I could be transported by to my country.

Can anyone explain the logic behind providing healthcare benefits for non citizens? Can anyone explain why we should be withholding Social Security from someone that should not be entitled to the benefits?

We federal, state, and local governments should deny social benefits to anyone in this country illegally, period.

You can bet that we are going to get illegals to go home it we keep providing for them.

Not being cold, just realistic. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things. The wrong way to inter this country is by just walking across the border and set up housekeeping.

Employers that are benefiting from cheap wages, knowing that they are hiring undocumented, illegal aliens, should be charged with a federal crime and go to jail, period. I consider what they are doing embezzling money from the tax payer.

It seems to me...
that, although the immigration problem resonates with most voters, half of this nation is not going to really appreciate the depth of the problem until someone important, or everyone else begins to challenge the bogus 12 million figure that our government keeps tossing around.

THere are probably 12 million illegals in California alone. And certainly somewhere there is overwhelming evidence that the government has been covering up the true extent of the problem. There could easily be thirty or forty million. Californians for Population Stabilization estimates 20 to 38 million nationwide. Amnesty would mean "certain" relatives would be allowed to join their new American brethren.

If a more accurate figure is laid out for all Americans to see, they will feel betrayed. This alone might throw the election to the Republicans, or at least keep Hillary out of office.

If I am right about the numbers, this nation's future is at steak. This needs to be an election about population and resources (which includes mideast policy). Water and oil can become pretty scarce, especially if climate change kicks in.

So, challenge that number whenever you can.

MellorSJ2
Pure nonsense to suggest that Americans are against immigration.

People have been immigrating since the nation was formed. No one has complained until the flood gates were opened.

Now we are caring for more and more ilegals for what purpose, cheap labor.

It will be cheaper to pay for the additional cost of the product.

MellorSJ2
Sorry MellorSJ2, I may have gotten you confused with lon.


Food for the goose; let's take a gander
I wonder what the date of this conference was? On Tuesday the voters of Oregon handily defeated a measure very similar to this one, including a tax increase on those evil cigarettes. Maybe they had a little bit of common sense and saw that the costs would be enormous and there was no way that a cigarette tax would pay for it unless every man, woman, and child in Oregon started smoking 4 packs a day. LOL, and this was in one of the bluest of the blue States. Of course their shade of blue is more tinged with "green" than with the other issues.

Yes, the Lamocrats know that if you spread tantalizing tidbits of food on the floor you will attract cockroaches. And if you give the cockroaches a pathway to vote, they will of course vote Lamocrat.

But the tide has finally turned and this issue has folded like a losing hand in a $100.00 dealer's choice game. Keep on pushing this Lamocrats and maybe you will become just as stupid as those RINOs sitting across the table from you negotiating.

SCHIT!!!
Against American people wish, Congress is doing everything to legalize illegals, like antigunners want no ammo and making guns useless by usage of trigger locks.

Same results, different means.


Lon
You've misspelled your moniker - it's missing extra "o".

MellorSJ2 writes:
Bingo!
Lon writes: "the fact that people who claim that they are bothered by illegal immigration are really bothered by legal immigration as well."
Try this one for size: Let's say we could guarantee, come what may, that an illegal getting a license would never be able to use it to gain the benefits of citizens. And let's also say that the illegal bears the full cost of producing the license.
AHAHAHAHA
Sorry I am no racist, and they get benefits for free anyways, the law is what it is about! And it’s hateful people like yourself that run around calling other people names that prove who the racist is, and its you who is racist against the rule of law and anyone who believes in it! Not to mention this:
http://www.corruptionchronicles.com/2007/09/_islamic_terror ists_arrested_a.html


Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com
http://www.ontheissues.org/Duncan_Hunter.htm
Hunter’s best quote: Move away from the Ted Kennedy Wing of the Republican Party. (Jun 2007)



Candidates Vis-a-vis ILLEGALS
[Part 1]
Some have argued that if America were truly concerned and angry about ILLEGALS and considered this a primary issue that Hunter and Tancredo would get more traction. This is a fallacious analogy. Americans maintain an ambivalent relationship with politicians associated with Washington; we tend to like our own reps who have bought us with local area pork, but mistrust them collectively because the sum of the parts rightly seems inimical (due to control by limited special interests), wasteful and detached.

We have only EVER elected 2 sitting Senators-- JFK and Harding. Ergo, in the last 100 years, the only sitting Senator barely won the W.H., and with chicanery (JFK-- Joe K. bought the union vote and voter fraud in a razor thin result). [Empirically, this makes you wonder if Shrillary could actually win.] As for Tancredo and Hunter, their odds are truly long by virtue of their relatively obscure positions in Congress. Also, the MSM willfully marginalize them because the remote PC "elites" therein generally embrace ILLEGALS. Even Rush, Hannity, and vacuous O'Reilly initially were sanguine toward ILLEGALS, but were overwhelmed by the righteous indignation from those who actually live among them and experience their pandemic pernicious socio-economic ills first-hand. [See Part 2]

Excellent Idea
Lets call Mexico up and ask them if they would like to supply some or all of the 28 Billion they receive from the US every year and contibute it towards healthcare for the illegal Mexican immigrants here. Don't hold your breath!

illegals
the issue is concerning the illegals. The figures for how many illegals are in this country. With figures running from 12 million to possibly 450 million the question has to be at what number do they finally have to reach before causing serious financial harm to our nation. Some say 10,000 a day are now entering illegally. This number will only be reduced with border security and by removing all incentives for these parasitic lawbreakers to quit stealing into our country and looting our services. The bleeding heart libs always cry about the poor illegals and their children. We have a first obligation to our own citizens and then those here legally. We have no obligations to any who have entered illegally.If they won't leave voluntarily they need to be removed by force

Politicians Vis-a-vis ILLEGALS
[Part 2]
Think about it-- the debates are staged with the focus on Meandering Mitt, Feckless Fred, Sanctuary City Rudy, and Juan McQuisling who are constantly referred to as "major candidates." Of those, 2 are traitors to Middle America on ILLEGALS, but the other 2 SAY that they favor sealing the border and cracking down on ILLEGALS. BINGO! Honest polls CLEARLY demonstrate that the American public is DEEPLY concerned about ILLEGAL aliens... watch it TRULY begin to have an impact on elections around the country. Almost 80% of Middle America opposes giving ILLEGALS drivers licenses, yet Rudy, Shrillary and many other remote pols insouciantly favor doing so. Arizona, the state most plagued by the pervasive ills caused by ILLEGALS, passed several strong anti-ILLEGAL sanctions by substantial margins in '06, with almost half of the legal Hispanic vote. The MSM has almost totally misread this angst and righteous indignation. Xenophobia/racism has little to do with it... instead, myriad pernicious social pathologies accompany ILLEGALS like Pigpen's dirt cloud.

Solutions:

Build the wall... make English the official and ONLY language... require a tamper-proof I.D. for ANY non-citizen to function here... limit bilingual education... do NOT grant drivers' licenses to ILLEGALS, which is REALLY a step toward voter fraud... enforce existing laws by TRULY cracking down on miscreant employers... allow local governments the right to deal with ILLEGALS, as they must to protect the public... flatly prohibit ANY welfare services for ILLEGALS such as the families of "anchor babies"... and interpret and apply the 14th Amendment as intended. As with the children of diplomats born on American soil, ILLEGAL alien madres of anchor babies are NOT subject to our jurisdiction and should not be able to push out new citizens, then get in the welfare line.

Has tide turned on the ILLEGAL invasion?
Hope springs eternally! Amazingly, the tide has turned in favor of the out-gunned Middle American, grassroots forces recently against the monied special interests of the pro-ILLEGALS controlling both parties with different ulterior agendas. Shrillary twisted her disingenuous self like a pretzel trying not to admit she supports driver's licenses for ILLEGALS. Various states which initially did that (e.g. North Carolina) reversed it because of the pandemic crime, gangs, fraud and blight which ensued.

We stopped the innocuous-sounding "Dream Act" which would have made 1 million of the younger ILLEGALS citizens, whereupon they would have applied for millions more relatives. Socialists Turbin Durbin and Dingy Harry Reid had thought that this artful subterfuge/clandestine scamnesty would be the easiest to cram thru the Senate, BUT THEY FAILED! Even Sen. Lindseed Gramnesty voted against it after rightously indignant citizens in S.C. rightly figuratively threatened to lynch him for embracing ILLEGALS against their overwhelming opposition.

I am actually rather encouraged after having feared that America was irretrievably lost to the ILLEGAL invasion. It ain't over-- the leading
candidates love ILLEGALS --> Shrillary and Sanctuary City Rudy, because there are at least 3 million of them in N.Y. state. "Meandering Mitt" Romney and Fred "Wake me up when it's over" Thompson SAY the right things, but I am suspicious of both... they smack of globalists in patriots' clothing.

the stealth voting issue
Make no mistake about it-- for the left, scamnesty is all about the future votes and institutionalizing big entitlement government. Hispanics were only 6% of the actual reported vote in 2006 per Linda Chavez herself, but they are the main element (78%-- 56% from Mexico, mostly ignorant and indigent) of ILLEGALS, notwithstanding visa violators from the Orient(12%), Canada and Europe (6%), etc.

Furthermore, citizenship is not even always required to vote (state legislatures decide who can vote), but drivers' licenses and other steps toward scamnesty are all intended to get ILLEGALS voting so they will vote like their friends do-- for leftist big govt. It is stunning that the RINOS do not see this... the fact that well-established, successful Hispanic Americans sometimes vote conservatively is IRRELEVANT; it is simplistic (and really racist) to assume that ALL Hispanics vote in lock step-- half of LEGAL Hispanic-Americans voted for tough new sanctions in 2006 to squelch ILLEGALS in Arizona.

ILLEGALS will vote at least 10:1 for big entitlement government, and when enough of them actually begin voting, not even a RINO amigo of the scurrilous ilk of Presidente Jorge could ever be elected again. They will then bring in their myriad uneducated, indigent relatives, and America will be lost forever-- Mexico Norte. See what YOU can do to save YOUR country just below! time is CRITICAL! America would be a TERRIBLE THING TO LOSE!

Rattle those cages in Washington!
Folks, do NOT underestimate how influential your calls and e-mails to Congress can be. While it is true that the monied lobbyists and inside the beltway power brokers wield the most influence, even the pro-ILLEGAL forces admit that it has been righteously indignant Middle America pounding out those calls and e-mails which has derailed Scamnesty thus far despite the immense special interest $ trying to cram it thru. We also recently stopped stealth scamnesty-- the "Dream Act" (really a nightmare).

Great American Sen. Sessions and others have noted that the Senators have never seen anything like the wrath this Scamnesty stuff has caused in Middle America. Here is how you can EASILY contact YOUR Senators and Representatives at their official contact sites. Heck, bark at all of 'em! They LOVE hearing from you, and their people DO track the nature of the feedback! DON'T LET UP-- DON'T EVER LET UP! Bookmark it and call/e-mail them RELENTLESSLY:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

Or you can send the great topic specific e-mails as prepared by the top anti-ILLEGAL group and stay informed right here:

http://www.numbersusa.com/index
http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet

America would be a TERRIBLE thing to lose-- join the righteous fight to save YOUR country! This is a critical time to become involved! YOU can make a difference!

illegals
oops I meant 45 million not 450 million

Inconvenient Truths About ILLEGALS
The facile myths of the alleged benefits of ILLEGALS are belied by egregious, pervasive, corrosive realities: crime, drugs, gangs, tax evasion, illegitimacies, welfare fraud, identity theft, barrio blight, school enervation, and socio-economic and cultural decimation. ILLEGALS DO NOT PROVIDE CHEAP LABOR-- their all-in socio-economic costs are STAGGERING... only a few owners benefit from ILLEGALLY employing them, and that "savings" is NOT passed along.

We must stanch the ILLEGAL invasion (including cracking down on the millions who overstay visas) or lose America; we are inexorably slouching toward Gomorrah. We should radiate the ILLEGAL crisis like a cancer before it can destroy the whole body politic. We will devolve and erode into a third world entitlement welfare state if we give ILLEGALS the vote, which will come before they get citizenship and accelerate the latter.

Build the wall... make English the official and ONLY language... require a tamper-proof I.D. for ANY non-citizen to function here... do NOT grant drivers' licenses to ILLEGALS which is really a step toward voter fraud... enforce existing laws by REALLY cracking down on miscreant employers... allow local governments the right to deal with ILLEGALS... flatly prohibit any welfare for
ILLEGALS such as the families of anchor babies... and interpret and apply the 14th Amendment as intended-- as with the children of diplomats born on American soil, ILLEGAL alien madres of anchor babies are NOT subject to our jurisdiction and should not be able to push out new citizens, then get in the welfare line.

Support the SAVE Act!
The next step in Congress to save America from the ILLEGAL alien invasion will be the SAVE Act (Secure America with Verification and Enforcement). The SAVE Act would eventually require every employee in America to go through the E-Verify system. This internet system provides employers with an inexpensive, quick, and accurate way to verify that employees are not illegal aliens. Watch for it and support people in Congress who support it as it progresses. Its goals are supported by Numbersusa, the leading group trying to save America from the ILLEGAL invasion:

http://www.numbersusa.com/index

The SAVE Act by Rep. Heath Shuler (D-N.C.) has gotten another big boost with the co-sponsorship of Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.) The courageous Democrats pushing the SAVE Act are standing up to their pro-amnesty national Party leadership and Presidential candidates. Most of the Democrats who are likely to be in competitive races next year are getting behind this bill. The courageous
Republicans who are signing onto the SAVE Act are setting aside partisan maneuvering for next year's elections. These Republicans who are serious about actually solving the illegal immigration problem know that nothing is going to get better soon unless they can find a lot of Democrats who are willing to join in the fight. Heath Shuler's SAVE Act is the best opportunity in a very long time for that to happen.

lodestar's good posts.
__I too, was impressed with the way we, united, defeated the scamnesty attempt. The American people hold more power in their hands, than any of the special interest factions, that hold the left hostage. While their may be many of them, they are all seperate, and the people within them are only intent on their own self-interest. They are why earmarks have become so prevalent, and the use of special, speculative, legislation to address singular needs. Both are actions by politicians, securing their positions of power, with repayment for support. It's the "change, and creating a new America", we hear the left constantly preach. Our Republic, and our society united, of, by, and for the people, is the change the left seeks. We showed our employees, our government representation, the pride we have in this American company when we raised our voices. Keep it up y'all, and HAPPY VETERANS DAY TO ALL VETERANS OF THIS REPUBLIC!

Lodestar
So long as voters see govt as a means of getting something for nothing, we will have representtives who are in office to also feather their nest. We have the govt the voters are asking for. They have forgotten how difficult it is to cheat an honest man. Until the voters realize they are being bought with table scraps from the goodies they are enabling the pols to harvest, the charade will continue.

HUNTER 2008

Securing the border and enforcing the law is the only way we get to keep our rule of law, our representative Republic, and our Constitution. We must elect a President who WILL secure the border and enforce the law. If citizenship becomes meaningless, this will no longer be the United States of America.

The so-called "top tier" will not get out the voters necessary for a GOP win. Increasing turnout is the key. Give people something to vote for. Not just the lesser of two evils. Won't work this time. People are fed up with the inundation of illegal aliens. They would come out in droves for the clear choice of D=amnesty or R=enforcement. They will stay home if they both equal amnesty.

There is a huge majority of American citizens waiting for someone to pledge to uphold the laws and secure the borders, let's not ignore them any more.

http://www.gohunter08.com

Virginia Patriot
The ire against the illegal aliens is wide but shallow, or at least that is what the lack of support for Hunter and Tancredo indicates to me. Apparently all the 75 percent against amnesty are selecting candidates based on some other issue. I won't. Anti 2nd A and pro-amnesty are such clearcut indicators of contempt for the man in the street i will not vote for any pol that takes either of these positions. Golly, i hope i'm not the Lone Ranger.

Lodestar,
I'd like to add a few things to your to-do list:

Give Border Patrol agents and Nat'l Guard the authority to do their jobs without fear of persecution from our government (RELEASE RAMOS AND CAMPEON AND EXPUNGE THEIR RECORDS IMMEDIATELY as well as any other BP agent in similar circumstances).

Authorize profiling. Yep! Anyone stopped by a policeman who doesn't appear to be here legally, either by physical appearance and/or demeanor, can be asked his/her legal status. If they are here legally, they should have no problem or qualms about showing proof. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about. That is NOT a violation of civil rights.

WEED OUT ANY POLITICIAN CURRENTLY IN OFFICE THAT SUPPORTS ILLEGALS IN ANY MANNER! That should get rid of virtually every Democrap and some Republicans. We need to collectively as a nation pressure the constituents of these politicians to not re-elect them!

Impeach Congress
Earlier this week Congress over-rode Bush's veto of the so-called "Water Projects" bill, which contained $5 billion for water projects requested by the Army Corp of Engineers and $18 billion of pork.

This past Spring and Summer the Congress tried to sneak amnesty past the public by calling it "Comprehensive Immigration Reform".

And the Congress continues to try to incrementally impose nationalized health care on us by calling it a "Childrens Health Insurance Program", with a dose of amnesty-health-benefits for illegals thrown in for good measure.

In other words, BOTH parties in Congress are conniving in backrooms to promote expensive spending programs that We The People would not vote for directly if we had the chance. Their attitude is the equivalent of that expressed by the governor of Oregon when his effort to raise the tax on cigarettes failed on Tuesday. He said "The people don't understand the bill."

No, governor, you're wrong. Your problem is not that the people didn't understand the bill. Your problem is that the people of your state DID understand that you were trying to pull the wool over their eyes by describing another government power grab as a benefit to financed by a cigarette tax which would have added benefit of encouraging people to quit smoking.

Do you have any idea how many times we've heard that line?

I wish I could tell other TH readers how we can do this, but I can't. Yet somehow we have to make or elected officials understand that it is their job to SERVE us, not rule over us. Our tax money is not, to use the Democrats metaphor on Iraq, a "blank check".

It is bad enough that they are taking too much of our money already without them using it to start new programs and expand others into insatiable monsters that will be impossible to afford in the near future.


SCHIP
Where is the Constitution does it state that ANYONE should receive healthcare benefits paid for by the US taxpayer?

Hunter Looking Better All The Time
Of all the candidates, Hunter is the best.
I wish that he would catch fire with the American people.

They keep thinking in terms of he can't win.

Wouldn't it be a wake up call to the top four to see Hunter win the nomination?

I was one of those who were looking at no possibility that he could win.

After what Pat Robinson did, I’m leaning Hunter’s way even if he looses.

The Republican Party will never believe that they need the conservative right to win again.

Principle is worth something.

Hunter deserves better than this.
I for one would like to hear more from him. Why isn’t he out and about? I don’t think he’s even campaigned in some states.

Robert
Better hope that you don't find yourself in there possition, you may find out that " justice for all" is just a saying, not a fact.

No Amnesty Candidates

No Rudy, No McCain

Romney, Thompson and Huckabee are saying the right things now, but haven't always. Hunter and Tancredo have been working on this for years on our behalf. Longer than most of you have been alarmed about it, they have been trying to sound the alarm. Choose carefully in the primaries, your future depends on it.

No Romney, No Thompson, No Huckabee
Huckabee is a con man and is pro illegal alien.
Look at Romney's record as governor of MA. RINO.
Rudy=Jorge without the cowboy hat. RINO.

Duncan Hunter is the only authentic candidate for conservatives.

Robert
No one takes you serious Robert.

You have no value system.
You are against fiscal responsibility because you support everything the liberal want to do.

You are against national defense.
You are against law and justice.

You are for globalism.

While saying that you are a Christian, you oppose Christians, and Christian values.

What are you for that does not support the disintegration of this culture?

foxfire
he who must not be named is merely a contrarian. Arguing for the sake of arguing

intelligentsia tried to ignore Roberto..
here on TH, but he is like bubble gum sticking to a flip flop-- no matter how irrelevant he is, you simply cannot rid yourself of him! At least Akagi, however ethnocentric and defensive, believes what he says and does not simply burp up effluvia.

Indubitably, he is the gadfly of irrelevance on Th! The Alan Colmes stand-in. Whoever did his lobotomy got cut happy!

No Romney, No Thompson, No Huckabee
monticup writes: Saturday, November, 10, 2007 10:27 AM
No Romney, No Thompson, No Huckabee

Foxfire:

You know what a gut feeling is, I just don’t feel good about where these candidates stand.

Huckabee is a Christian, and is against some moral issues, but I feel that fiscally he leans toward business and is willing to wink at illegal immigration.

I’m not sure that he would be strong on defense. He might be one of the weaker ones on defense. He talks the talk, but does he have the guts to face the hard questions in a face to face show down.

Hunter has been consistent in his position. I’ve heard comments like he’s too young, doesn’t have the name recognition, and doesn’t have the money.

He’s got all the qualities of a good candidate. It’s a shame to wash him out in favor of Rudy, Romney, or Thompson.

reply to: monticup
good post... I have figured that the Huckster liked ILLEGALS. He is faking his support for enforcement with a wink at them-- just like Rudy and Sen. Juan Mcquisling.

Rudy is UNQUESTIONABLY Presidente Jorge redux-- we will lose America to the ILLEGAL invasion if globalist, CFR, Sanctuary City Rudy or Shrillary gets elected. Shrillary just appointed the long-time head of La Raza to be one of her confidants/henchmen. The left is teased up to make them voters-- drivers' licenses are a key step in that intrigue (see my posts below)--> voter fraud in the making.

Stop Rudy and Shrillary at all costs!

lodestar and the effluent
__If left alone its degrading bacterial effect will dispose of itself. By adding any cleaning detergents you, in effect, destroy the bacteria that is beneficial in degrading the waste.

Foxfire
Absolutely agree with you on Hunter. I saw him last night with Glenn Beck -- I know it wasn't live, but I don't know when it was recorded. Every time I see him, even if for 2 or 3 minutes, I am so impressed. He is so strong on national security, WOT, tax reform and economic concerns -- and has LOTS of experience in big government (and fighting it).

I know he won't get the GOP nod -- but I am going to vote for him in the primary anyway. My hope is that some smart GOP candidate who does get the nomination will choose Duncan Hunter for his running mate. Frankly, I think he would be an excellent choice for Fred or Mitt -- and he would most certainly be the necessary conservative element added to Rudy's ticket.

foxfire22
C'mon. You know better than to attempt to engage Fraud Robert in anything substantive!

Along with his blatant BDS and his multiple personality disorder is his congenital lying.

You'd have a more rewarding conversation engaging a house sparrow in deep discussion.

Lodestar,
I want to thank you for your concern about my great grandson last night.

Want to give an up date on him this morning.
He is in the children's hospital in Little Rock. He is in ICU. They have decided not to remove the bullet in his spine.They think it will do more harm than good. They finally got the bleeding stopped. there was an artery alongside his ribs that was severed.The doctors are upset that they had to do so much surgery in their attemps to save him They had to cut some nerves in his neck. Almost lost him a couple of times last night. But he's stable at the moment. They are calling in a neurologist, because he can't feel his feet.
The doctors said God must have been with him, because by rights he should be dead.
They have arrested one so far.Of course, no one saw anything.
I blame this a lot on Mike Huckabee, and his love for illegal aliens....Now as they try any sort of crackddown, the companies, such as Tyson foods, are fighting it. Too litttle too late.

Robert
I guess ordering an air strike while having oral sex is more acceptable to you.

You don’t know why Bush took the military to Iraq. Like everyone, you have your speculations and opinions.

I’d like to see congress bring on there impeachment proceeding against Bush.
He’ll make them look like the fools that they are.

The Democratic Party and MSM must accept great blame for making this war worse than it should have been.

The president didn’t lie. He made some serious mistakes with nation building, if you want to call it that, but every president is responsible to do what is in the best interest of the US.

I’ve heard all the hype about no WMD found. No proof that they weren’t moved.

It’s obvious that Syria, Saddam’s good buddies, is gearing up to go nuclear.

But, someone with your mind set will believe that it’s just for peaceful power needs, like Iran.

English Only
We have made it too easy and comfortable for the illegal to live and work in this country. I propose an English only policy which would be implemented in the following ways:

All city,state and federal offices will conduct business in ENGLISH ONLY. This means no more translators and all documents will be in English.

The exception would have to be the court systems. While i'm here, all illegals convicted of misdameanors or felonies will be deported immediately back to their country of orgin. I do not even want to subsidize their jail terms unless they were convicted of a crime causing bodily injury and or property damage against a US Citizen. In that case, they will be deported immediately upon the completion of their sentence. If they are ever found to be in this country again, they will be subject to a prison term of no less than ten years

Bilingual Education will be a thing of the past. This program is nothing more than a crutch that interferes with the assimilation and learing process for all involved. Further, it's already a requirement that legal immigrants have a basic understanding of the English Language before they are granted citizenship. Thus, they should be taught in English.

All elections will be conducted in ENGLISH ONLY. As Stated, ALL legal residents are required to have a basic understanding of the English Language. Therefore, if you do not understand enough basic English to fill out an election ballet, then you probably should not be voting anyway.

Let me address Agaki now before he startes one of his incoherent, academia based rants. I do not care what language you speak in your home, on the telephone, the bus, while having sex, etc. You can learn any foreign language you choose. You can hang the flag of Taiwan in your home if you like. I do not care.

But you will however, conduct all formal business, go to school, and vote in the English Language.




nanna
My prayers are with your great-grandson, you and your family.

-Primus

Foxfire
Robert is supposed to be on the permanent "scrollby" list. He has been classified as an argumentative troll with no interest in dialog.

Roberto
Robert,

Your probably right and it's because of people like you who are flushing this country down the toilet!

Hopefully, your vision of Shiliary Clinton at the helm of this country will never come to be.

Nanna
Hang in there. Its never too late for a miracle and they do occur. Let us know what happens.

Please Explain
What's wrong with English only as the offical language and policy of this country Roberto? Why will it never come to be? I would like to hear your thoughts as i'm sure everyone else would as well.

Scrollby
Robert? Who is Robert? Never heard of him.

Lon and MellorSJ
There ARE people who oppose all immigration, for various reasons.

But it's incorrect to lump everyone together. I favor much more liberal LEGAL immigration laws. I don't think we could tolerate a sustained high level of immigration for decades on end, but I do think we could allow considerably more immigration than we currently do, in ANY year. We should also reduce paperwork and delays for legal immigrants.

I don't insist on restricting immigration to people with advanced degrees and demonstrated financial capability either. I don't buy the argument that poor, LEGAL immigrants inevitably end up on the dole.

One key problem I do see with anchor baby immigration, though, is that it rewards and perpetuates a key feature of welfarism: standing for a minor child that is not concomitant with recognition of, and obligations assumed for, his parents.

We should want adult men and women to immigrate, assimilate in the culture, and prosper. LEGALLY. Frankly, our arguments about entitlements apply to the native-born too: it's not the fault of Mexicans that we keep voting money out of each others' -- and our children's -- pockets. It's our fault.

reply to: nanna
The people of character here are all pulling for you, your great grandson and your family... it is UNFORGIVABLE when ILLEGAL aliens perpetrate such pointless and heinous crimes against those who have a right to be here.

May I assume that you live in Arkansas and/or know first-hand that the Huckster has embraced ILLEGALS? That is reason enough to oppose him... there seems to be a suggestion that he might run as Rudy's #2. That sounds like two rotten peas in the same NAU/open border/sell-out America pod.

I am a big believer in the many blessings of the American system of enterprise, but employers like Tyson Foods deserve all the censure they can get for willfully employing ILLEGALS and trying to defend their miscreant/lawbreaking ways at the expense of Middle America and her taxpayers... it truly is unconscionable.

reply to: dyerje
re:
"I don't insist on restricting immigration to people with advanced degrees and demonstrated financial capability either. I don't buy the argument that poor, LEGAL immigrants inevitably end up on the dole."

************************************************

A fairly thoughtful post, but the stats suggest strongly that those who are undereducated and indigent to start with almost always stay that way, and become huge net users of tax $, whether or not they are natives or immigrants. Heritage has devoted a lot of careful analysis to this... each household headed by someone with less than a
H.S. degree will use $1.4 million more in services than it pays in taxes in a lifetime.

Today's America is simply not the agrarian-based America where Dale Carnegie came with nothing and made good. We are now an advanced service economy-- immigrants from Asia, Brazil, or wherever who come here educated will be strong net contributors, but NOT the myriad ignorant, indigent ILLEGALS flooding across our border. They are a tsunami of pandemic socio-economic pathologies and cultural demise. As for profligate welfare spending by our govt., that is yet another reason to stanch the flow of ILLEGALS ASAP, and explains why the left wants to give them licenses and the vote-- to assure the perpetual hegemony of the liberal "elites."

SCHIP Shouldn't no Political Tennis Ball
My granddaughter is a chronic patient that utilizes SCHIP. Her healthcare is at risk because of the Democratic push to increase elligibility past reasonable limits.

Before SCHIP, Colorado had a doctor funded program for families without health insurance, under a certin income level. This program was available, quietly run, and met the needs of families, who for various reasons, could not meet the costs of healthcare emergencies.

Then the federal government thought they could do it better. Well, the federal government is doing what it does best, growing a program beyond its means and purpose, thereby risking the well being of those whom it was intended to help.

correction...
I meant Andrew Carnegie, not Dale Carnegie, who came here from Ireland with nothing and largely ignorant as I recall, yet made his fortune via grit and determination.

The problem is:
Here in Michigan we give drivers licenses tests in EVERY language on the planet earth! All they need are 3 pcs of ID, one being a SS#, well excuse me, but I can go to Chicago tomorrow and say I am Juanita Hernandez, WHO is going to prove I am not??? I ASKED our Sec. of States office about this, and they said the 3 pcs are whats required, BUT the question is DO THEY SEE IF THE HOLDER OF THE SS# IS THE TRUE OWNER???
One of the 9-11 hijackers had a Michigan DL, see what I mean?? How did they prove he was not ILLEGAL??? I then asked our Sec. of State if they then issue VOTER REGRISTRATION CARDS to the DL applicant? YES< YES, YES!!! I think they may check the SS# NOW, as I had to supply mine for my re-newal last year, BUT they didn't use to check it, so NOW you have MOTOR VOTER fraud from sea-to-shining-sea. HOW do I know, my Daughter works at a place in Michigan that requires picture ID, one Mexican man brings our 4, COUNT THEM, 4 pcs of ID, one a Mich. DL, one a Mexican one, and 2 from other states!!!
SO LON, can you guarantee that the Illegal isn't voting???
All they need to do is take their VALID MI. DL to another state, and they are LEGAL there to get that state's DL. a job, they didn't quit giving those illegals food stamps, and who knows what else, so we just have to keep poning up eh LON???districts, WE are stuck with sucky wages, but they don't give a schidt, it doesn't affect how they live.

beware of Huckster on ILLEGALS?

lodestar: Exactly right!
.

Lodestar,
Thought I would update here, in case you return to this thread.
First of all I want to thank everyone else, eastlake joe, Doc, wildwest, savage 99 and primus54 for all your kind wishes.

The last report I received. he was still stable, but paralized on his left side.

No other arrests have been made as yet. (probably won't be)

I don't live in Arkansas, but my grandchildren do. I live in Oklahoma, aboout 20 miles from the Arkansas line.
But I did live in Arkansas for awhile.
Take my word, Huckabee is a total phoney, from the word go.
Our democrat governor is acting more like a Republican when it comes to illegals. We just had one of the toughest illegal immigration laws in the nation go into effect Nov. 1st.
If they had had one in Arkansas, maybe this horrible thing would never have happened to my family.

Again, I thank you all so much.

It is your fault
Do you understand that Americans voted our immigration laws that resulted in massive illegal immigration? Migration of people is like Mississippi. One can regulate its flow, no one can stop it. If you support our current immigration laws, stand in front of a mirror and say thank you for illegal immigration.

Create reasonable legal immigration policy, and illegal immigrants will disappear.

The Freedom of Migration Act is the way to go,
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/immigration.htm

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com



Precursor to Hillarycare .....
This bill is so obviously a precursor to government run healthcare for all including illegals.

Any Republican that votes for this expansion will be outed. No one is trying to take away healthcare for the children that the Dems trotted out to shame us. These children were already covered. Yet, the Dems chose the already covered to flaunt instead of bringing out kids not already covered. Never be honest when you think a lie will suffice, I guess.

Nevermind that this should be a States issue, and not that of the Federal Gimme Government. How much sense does it make to force a family earning $40,000/annually to pay for SCHIP for a family earning $60,000/annually.

This is not about the children, it is about the socialist agenda for this country. SCHIP is only the tip of the iceburg.

Nanna your...
great grandson is in my prayers. Hope he recovers and I hope they find who did this horrible thing.

obfusciation
WW2 Vet Emory;
PERHAPS THE REAL TRUTH AS TO WHY OUR US CONGRESS
SEEMS TO BE PLAYING A SHELL GAME IS BECAUSE IT HAS TO DO WITH MAKING BIGGER RETURNS ON THEIR
INVESTMENTS,,AN EXAMPLE OF THIS IS SIMPLE ENOUGH
FOR AS COMPANY XRAY'S PROFITS HAVE SKYROCKETED DUE TO ITS LOWER OPERATING COSTS HENCE ITS PROFITS RISE AND SO DO STOCKHOLDERS' INCOME VIZ A
VIZ PONCHO GETS PAID $4.00 AN HOUR WHEREAS GEORGE USED TO GET $22.00 AN HOUR THOUGH TRYING TO PROVE THIS MAY REQUIRE TRIXTERISM. .THERE HAS TO BE ANOTHER EXPLANATION AS TO WHY WE NOW HAVE SUCH A FAILED CONGRESS AS WE CITIZENS LOOK AT THIS . . .

reply to: nanna
I checked in... got it... we will keep the faith for you and your family, and keep fighting to save America from the ILLEGAL INVASION!

************************************************
GET INVOLVED MIDDLE AMERICA TO SAVE YOUR COUNTRY!

Folks, do NOT underestimate how influential your calls and e-mails to Congress can be. While it is true that the monied lobbyists and power brokers wield the most influence, even the pro-ILLEGAL forces admit that it was (righteously indignant) Middle America pounding out those calls and e-mails which has derailed Scamnesty thus far despite the immense special interest $ trying to cram it thru.

Great American Sen. Sessions and others have noted that the Senators had never seen anything like the wrath this Scamnesty stuff caused in Middle America. Here is how you can contact YOUR Senators and Reps at their official contact sites-- it is easy! Bark at all of 'em-- they LOVE hearing from you! Bookmark it and call/e-mail them often:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

Or you can send the great topic-specific e-mails as prepared by the top anti-ILLEGAL group and stay informed right here:

http://www.numbersusa.com/index
http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet


lodestar, and the Master of Deception
Numbersusa is one of agendas of a known white supremacist, John Tanton.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid =72

They do not search for the truth, they produce what asked and paid for.

People like John Tanton and Roy beck are perfidious xenophobes.

Nevertheless, one have to recognize that demagogy of Roy Beck reaches high level of excellence. For this reason, he is awarded a title of the Master of Deception,

http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/$100_challenge.htm .


reply to: hak
About 75% of Americans agree with the stated goals of numbersusa... I guess that we have a lot of "nativist racist xenophobes" here [i.e. American patriots who believe in the rule of law].

That is simply a vacuous charge of the cognitively disadvantaged... beware the scoundrel who wraps himself in a PC, supercilious, self-righteous cloak feigning attacking intolerance in the name of "diversity." America is ALREADY the most ethnically diverse nation on earth. It will erode into a meaningless polyglot third world nation entitlement govt. welfare state if it does not stop the ILLEGAL invasion and insist on orderly LEGAL immigration of the educated and skilled.

Maybe you should move to Mexico where they might embrace you-- but better bring some $ they can steal, because the Mexican govt. is notoriously intolerant of foreigners... a bit ironic, isn't it?

lonesar and 75% of Americans are wrong
Yes. you and 75% of Americans are wrong on immigration.

You likely heard that we have a leadership crisis. We have politicians we do not have leaders.

Please read
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/benefits_of.htm
and please watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2wE0IBmh_Q

Leaders, having courage to tell Americans that they are wrong in their views on immigration, are nowhere to be found.

Roberto,Roberta
Number one, You give me hope with your record od predicting. Like scamnesty when you predicted that it would pass. Now you predict the repubs will loose. Keep on predicting please
Number two after the other night and what you said to a certain lady on TH,frankly I'm suprised you would even show up here again. You really did show just how big an as-s you can be. You should go see a podiatrist to remove your big foot from your even bigger mouth. I only hope your friends, if you have any whip your worthless hiney for you for what you said.

SEAL THE BORDER BEFORE WE SEAL OUR FATE!!!
HUNTER/TANCREDO "08"

Nanna
Tell your family our prayers are still with them. As has been said here, miracles do happen and we are praying for one. God Bless him and heal him. Take care and rest as you will need your strength for your family in the comming days. Let us know how he is doing from time to time. JOE


SEAL THE BORDER BEFORE WE SEAL OUR FATE!!!

HUNTER/TANCREDO "08"
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