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Thursday, July 09, 2009
Michael Barone :: Townhall.com Columnist
Getting Cold Feet Over Democratic Proposals
by Michael Barone
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


The financial system collapsed. Housing prices cratered. Unemployment is at a record high for the last quarter-century. The Democratic president has a solidly positive job rating.

And yet we Americans have not suddenly become collectivists. The economic distress of the 1930s led Americans to favor less reliance on markets and more on government. The economic distress of the 1970s led Americans to favor less reliance on government and more on markets. It doesn't seem unreasonable to expect, as many political liberals have been predicting, that the economic distress of the late 2000s will produce a shift in the 1930s direction. But it doesn't seem to have happened yet.

Or so the polling evidence tells us. Last month's Washington Post-ABC poll reported that Americans favor smaller government with fewer services to larger government with more services by a 54 percent to 41 percent margin -- a slight uptick since 2004. The percentage of independents favoring small government rose to 61 percent from 52 percent in 2008. The June NBC-Wall Street Journal poll reported that, even amid recession, 58 percent worry more about keeping the budget deficit down versus 35 percent worried more about boosting the economy. A similar question in the June CBS-New York Times poll showed a 52 percent to 41 percent split.

Other polls show a resistance to specific Democratic proposals. Pollster Whit Ayres reports that 58 percent of voters agree that reforming health care, while important, should be done without raising taxes or increasing the deficit. Pollster Scott Rasmussen reports that 56 percent of Americans are unwilling to pay more in taxes or utility rates to generate cleaner energy and fight global warming.

It's interesting that on these issues and many others independents are responding more like Republicans than Democrats. That's the opposite of what we saw up through 2008, when independents were almost as critical of the Bush administration and Republican policies as Democrats.

This apparent recoil against big-government policies has not gone unnoticed by Americans. Gallup reported earlier this week that 39 percent of Americans say their views on political issues have grown more conservative, while only 18 say they have grown more liberal. Moderates agreed by a 33 percent to 18 percent margin.

Voters continue to think pretty highly of Barack Obama. But these numbers suggest that they are responding more negatively to Democratic proposals that have a chance at passage than they did to Democratic platform planks that were, until the 2008 election, only political rhetoric. The $787 billion stimulus package, the cap-and-trade bill's utility-rate increases, the public health insurance package -- all these seem to generate more apprehension than enthusiasm.

So does the prospect of doubling the national debt, as the Congressional Budget Office estimates, from about 40 percent of gross domestic product to about 80 percent. That's about where it ended up after World War II. Americans evidently regard our current economic situation, though negative, as not enough to justify the magnitude of deficit spending that was appropriate in an all-out world war.

I have been pleasantly (and others have been unpleasantly) surprised by our fellow citizens' unwillingness to embrace bigger government in a time of economic distress. American history -- the New Deal -- has disposed us to consider such a shift natural. But it was not universal even in the 1930s. In that decade, voters in Britain, Canada and Australia preferred parties opposed to bigger government, even as voters in the United States, France and New Zealand went the other way. And polling suggested that Americans by the late 1930s had become wary of the New Deal.

I think the shift in reliance from markets to government in the 1930s or the other way around in the 1970s was not fully completed until the next decades, when Americans saw the success of big government policies during World War II and the unexpected economic boom that resulted from low taxes in the 1980s. Those successes were also successes of American policy in the world -- the defeat of Nazism in 1945 and the fall of communism in 1989.

It's still possible for American attitudes to shift, if the Democrats' economic policies are passed and are seen to revive the economy. But it hasn't happened yet. Instead, Americans seem to be recoiling against big government when it threatens to become a reality rather than a campaign promise.

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About The Author
Michael Barone is a Fox News Channel contributor and co-author of The Almanac of American Politics. He is Senior Political Analyst for the Washington Examiner and a Resident Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, a Fox News Channel contributor and co-author of The Almanac of American Politics.
 
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Less Government
If Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac and Katrina are any hint of what the government can do, is it any wonder why we want less government and more common sense!? But, you cannot put LIPSTICK ON THIS PIG! It is out of control, overstepping its legal boundaries, and overspending, and exercising "Stinkin thinkin" when it comes to our national security! CZARS CZARS CZARS evereywhere, but just to whom are they accountable? To the Crony friends of the Dems!
Sad!

Watch TV News -- Our Rulers Are Airheads
While nominally a republic, in practice American government is severely infected with democratic elements. That is, in practice, our rulers are the common people. And apparently 93% of them are emotionally overwhelmed by the death of Michael Jackson.

Our rulers are the common people who do not have the faintest grasp of how their economy works, and who find it _way_ too much bother to learn.

Thus they voted first in 2006, then again in 2008, to be rid of prosperity because it was too hard. (In 2008, they additionally voted to be rid of their freedoms, as well.)

We have chosen to become Venezuela -- complete with a Hugo Chavez wannabe in the White House. We shall have the poverty that "liberals" find so touching & redeeming.

And we shall not have any more of those silly elections after 2010 (indeed, the Killers, Lillys, Ricks & Marcias are working energeticly to make sure there are none in 2010 that are effective).

It _was_ a great country. But the last best hope of mankind has been snuffed out by these sociopaths.

Rick:
I owe you an apology. It seems I gave you some faulty arithmetic. I said you'd have to be at least forty years of age to remember the Presidential careers of Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan. I was mistaken . . . you'd have to be FIFTY years of age! My Bad! (He chuckles to himself, quietly)

I always wanted to be a playwright. Instead, My last writing gigs were YEARS ago in the Reader's Digest I am now currently engaged as wordsmith, working on a non-fiction book for Christians called: FUNDAMENTAL, CHARISMATIC, PENTECOSTAL
Whatever Happened To Being A Born-Again, Spirit-Filled Child Of God?

At the rate it's going, it's going to take AT LEAST another year-and-a-half. UGH!

Well, welcome Rick . . .
Your post could actually make sense if it had any truth to it!

"All BULL until the end, when true colors
-are shown. As with any political opponent scheme from conservatives aka Republican'ts, it is to be seen as the party of lower taxes and less government. When reality can be proven different by actually knowing what happens, especially from Bush II. (Oh, does reality have ring of blame? It shouldn't, that's not the point!) What reality is, is that Republican'ts - conservatives have one desire. That is to regain power." When Ronald Reagan took office I was 29 and a graduate in accounting and economics. As I remember it, HE LOWERED TAXES! A) He lowered the tax brackets on wages, salaries and business earnings. B) He did away with the Capital Gains taxes C) He eliminated the "Marriage Penalty taxes. He reduced taxes by a minimum of 15%, all told.

For most of my voting days in the 70's and 80's I voted Independent. I voted for Jimmy Carter in 1976! Unfortunately, Carter turned out to be one the biggest disappointments in decades. By the end of his first and ONLY term, the nation was sacked with double-digit inflation and double-digit unemployment with a stagnant economy (the term Stagflation was coined in early 1980!

Carter's hero was FDR, who also found his term in an economy with little or no improvement. FDR tried to do the same thing, to increase taxed and attempt to spend the economy back into prosperity. Guess what? It didn't work! And here we have another prewsident wh's trying to us the same failed methods. Sooner or later (probably later) that it doesn't work! Others have been there . . . done that!It was Reagan that inherited Carter's mess.

But, of course, if you're not at least 40 years of age, you wouldn't know about all that! I will agree with you that George H.W. Bush #41 was responsible for giving the nation back its high taxes, after promising, "Read my lips, NO NEW TAXES!"

B there: townhall meetings, state office

With signed petitions in hand:
NO cap n tax
NO amnesty
NO Obama care
NO gun control
NO censorship of any type
NO more waste, fraud, abuse

DRILL NOW UNTIL___________

DURING August Recess, the resistance groups need to show up with petitions, at every Senator, congressman's townhall meetings and every day at their home state offices!

THIS INSANITY MUST END.

"The One's" Big Government
I'm extremely concerned about the economy and the direction that it is taking, but I'm even more concerned about the destructive idiots we have in Congress and the Suppreme idiot known as "The One" that is "leading" them.
All these destructive bills and policies now being adopted are ruinious in all areas and we will be left with little with which to reconstruct our nation and way of life once this evil piece of excrement and his minions are gone.
We are fools to believe that Big Government, especially under the Liberals and Socialist Demoncrats and their brother RINO's will solve our problems with Big Spending and Indebtedness that will take generations to remove, if ever.
And sadly we are not only faced with financial ruin, we are faced with moral and social destruction as well.
Well, the Sheeple got what they wanted and now we'll have to "live with it".
What a crock! And it's sad.

Bud, my buddy (sorry)
I enjoyed reading your reference to "Starship Troopers". I didn't read it, but I loved the movie.
I, also. have mentioned that our country would be better served if we had two "classes" of people, citizens and civilians.

For those of you who never saw the movie or read the book, do so. Its the only movie where I liked the character played by Michael Ironside.

Cold Feet, Cold Hearts
One by one the naive Obama voters are waking up to reality. Some are even brave enough to come out and say they were wrong.

I suspect there are millions out there who are mentality kicking themselves to have been taken in by this Elmer Gantry-like narcissist.

Soon it will be hard to find one person who voted for Obama. They will all deny it. I don't blame them for their shame.

marcia who can't read
You claim to be a former English professor, yet clearly struggle with the language. It says General(not specific) Welfare of the United States(not the people, the states).
What is the General Welfare? Trade. That's what the powers following general welfare for. Post roads and offices(creates intercourse between the states), regulation of commerce among the STATES( so that free trade or at least trade without excessive levying is happening). Coinage; this also helps promote commerce.
To help you out I yield to James Madison;
''But what color can the objection have, when a specification of the objects alluded to by these general terms immediately follows, and is not even separated by a longer pause than a semicolon? If the different parts of the same instrument ought to be so expounded, as to give meaning to every part which will bear it, shall one part of the same sentence be excluded altogether from a share in the meaning; and shall the more doubtful and indefinite terms be retained in their full extent, and the clear and precise expressions be denied any signification whatsoever? For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power? Nothing is more natural nor common than first to use a general phrase, and then to explain and qualify it by a recital of particulars.



marcia the moron
seems reading comprehension is another skill you lack. I wrote that piglosi and corrupt lasnd deal wrote the last two budgets for the bush presidency.

Piglosi and corrupt land deal promised to have a pay as you go system yet in those two dim written budgets some $700 billions was added to the deficit. Flap ears took ownership of the economy after he was inaugerated. And this years $2 trillion or so and possibly higher fully belongs to him and the dims reckless spending

Yet the dims have made a habit this year of voting for spending bills they have no idea what is in them. They announced they had no idea what was in the $800 porkzilla and they had no idea of what was in the $400 billion supplemental and they had no clue about cap and trade

And this week piglosi's number 2 person, hoyer has announced the dims will be voting for a health bill they will have no idea what is in it. He said if the dims knew what they were voting on, no bills would get passed


CACTI
genuine cactushead
Location: AZ
Reply # 61
Date: Jul 9, 2009 - 6:05 PM EST marcia the moron
it's obvious from the blather you post that the space between you ears in a vacuum where facts have no chance of finding root."

Thanks for those FACTS!

" Obviously you have no knowledge of the construction of cacti. They are full of fibrous tissue and woody stems for support."

And water


" But they is no way to cut open a cactus and find water."

YOu can suck it out. Animals do if they can avoid the spines. Ouch! And don't they use some cactus to make some alcoholic drink?

"But for your edification, I chose the nickname because I enjoy seeing the variety of cacti throughout the desert and how well they adapt to a harsh environment."

I love cacti. Thank you for this post, and I admire your interest in them. An environementalist - we have something in common!

Here's a hug: O

gotta go


Debt
genuine cactushead
Location: AZ
Reply # 55
Date: Jul 9, 2009 - 5:26 PM EST marcia the moron
time for you to start thinking instead of posting moveon talking points."

I don't read moveon. I often do read Republican talking points to see what you are up to. It's always weird. But since so many of them are in implantable chips I don't get to read those.

" Repubs gained control of congress during the 90's."

The flap-ear Elephants did. Uh huh.

" And also during bushes last 2 years in office. "

The flap-ear again? I missed it.

OH you mean the Democrats!

So I see you don't want to talk about Bush's first SIX years, eh? Or Ronnie's 8 with the Democrats for REagan to help him out? Or Bush I's 4?

And as for a majority in 2007, it wasn't enough to keep your guys from endlessly obstructing and fillibustering. And it wasn't enough to keep Bushboy from VETOING.

By the way, until October 1, we are still under Bush's budget, not Obama's, It's called the fiscal year and you could look it up.

Here's the debt graph in billions from 1975 to 1999.

Note the red part going up up up! That's RONNIE!

http://www.lafn.org/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html


" But it seems like flap ears you have no clue concerning how economics works."

Why would an Elephant understand economics? You proved it doesn't.

marcia the moron,
you deny the picture exists. And obviously you are the one labeling it as porn.

What's really bothering you that no one looks at you are a person of desire.

But as we see, you ugliness comes from within

marcia the moron
it's obvious from the blather you post that the space between you ears in a vacuum where facts have no chance of finding root.

Obviously you have no knowledge of the construction of cacti. They are full of fibrous tissue and woody stems for support. But they is no way to cut open a cactus and find water.

But for your edification, I chose the nickname because I enjoy seeing the variety of cacti throughout the desert and how well they adapt to a harsh environment.


CactusHead
genuine cactushead
Location: AZ
Reply # 58
Date: Jul 9, 2009 - 5:51 PM EST ron c
check out the picture at drudge. It shows flap ears and his roving eye oggling the rear end of some woman passing by.


You male repubs sure do like to see porn, eh? But it's usually males you prefer: Craig, Hazzard, etc. Oh, you naughty boy! What would Jesus think???

Under the Bus
RonC
Location: AZ
Reply # 56
Date: Jul 9, 2009 - 5:44 PM EST For Poll watchers
Attention, attention! The Obama polss are dropping like rocks."

Dear RonC

Uhm, no they aren't. Tell us when they get down to 23% - the current percent of Americans who say they are Republicans. Or Bush's many months when his approval rating was in the 20's.

The average age of Republicans now is around 63. And heading for 70! Big numbers for Republicans!

Hey - have fun - alientate more large groups of Americans.

You just got rid of the Latinos that used to vote for. Even the Cubans are pulling away from the party that dumps dirt on a Latina who has been nominated to be on the USSC. Right: only white men (and one Republican male who always votes with Scalia or is the only disenter in an 8-1 majority).
can be USSC court justices. Oh that's wrong only rightwing white men! (so you are losing the women vote too! Keep up throwing your own under the bus and you'll be down to Nadar's level.

ron c
check out the picture at drudge. It shows flap ears and his roving eye oggling the rear end of some woman passing by.

My guess is when horse face sees the picture, flap ears will be dealing with a whole new level of anger

And this comes after flap ears had quieted horse face down when he assured he he was jealous she had more manhood then he did

CactusHeads
genuine cactushead
Location: AZ
Reply # 55
Date: Jul 9, 2009 - 5:26 PM EST marcia the moron

Dear Genuine Cactushead,
(Hey - that's what you call yourself - a vegetable full of water and with spines instead of a brain head - no insult implied)

Can you explain to me why you feel it necessary to insult me personally in order to get your...uhm..point across.

I know why people do that: they have no facts or aren't interested in the facts.

Please let me know if you get a brain to replace your cactus. I don't have much experience talking to someone with a cactus as a head. Does the rest of your family also have cactuses on top of their shoulders?

Thanks!


For Poll watchers
Attention, attention! The Obama polss are dropping like rocks. The One can't fool all of the people all of the time. Haven't I heard that somewhere before?

marcia the moron
time for you to start thinking instead of posting moveon talking points. Repubs gained control of congress during the 90's. And also during bushes last 2 years in office.

But it seems like flap ears you have no clue concerning how economics works.

And obviously you haven;t listened to flap ears who has admitted the country will run $trillion deficits every year he is in office.

The projected deficit this year is reported to be $2 trillion, the highest in the history of the country and that doesn't incl;ude the $800 billion porkzilla which is an off budget item.

The previous record defcit was run up last year when piglosi and corrupt land deal controlled the nations purse strings and ran up some $400 billion in deficit after promising they would bring spending under control.

Or is it you are that stupid that you fail to understand who controls the budgets in this country.

Obviously you are

Will Rogers

Reba
Location: TX
Reply # 48
Date: Jul 9, 2009 - 2:28 PM EST POLITICAL HUMOR
My parents were always a big fan of Will Rogers, a writer and political humorist (1879-1935). Recall some of his political humor that is fitting for today showing that nothing has really changed:

A cannibal is a good deal like a Democrat, they are forced to live off each other.
an attractive offer. "

YOu've forgotten that after the CRA was signed, southern Democrats switched to being Republicans.

When Will Rogers said that he was talking about what are now REPUBLICANS.

So you are laughing at :Yourself! ho ho ho!

Capitalism spreads the wealth
Esther
Location: FL
Reply # 49
Date: Jul 9, 2009 - 2:59 PM EST Rising unemployment due to Cap & Trade

After all, isn't redistribution a grand concept--or is it? "

Yes it is. It is called CAPITALISM.

That's why we had the revolution: because the monarchs WOULD NOT spread the wealth. They kept if all for themselves, just like the greedy CEO's who make millions and you and I and everyone who buys there often toxic-products have to pay for their yachts.

Monarchs INHERITED their money and kept it all for themeselves. That ought to be ILLEGAL in a capitalism country.

REad the Constitution: one of the reasons we created a democracy was to "provide for the GENERAL welfare".

Not just the richest at the top.

Unemployment
Rising unemployment due to Cap & Trade

The official national unemployment rate is currently 9.5%."

Yup. Highest since 24 years ago. uhm who was president then? oh, yea RONNIE!

" Currently it is 10.2 in Fl."

Red states are always poor.


" Cap and trade will help soar the unemployment"

Wow you can predict the future! Do you get paid for telling people if they'll find the love of their life also?

US debt
Obama
promises to add $9 trillion to the national debt

"promised" ho ho ho ho.

Just like what your Ronnie and your Bushes did:

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

US debt kept going DOWN from WWII until.........Ronnie!


US debt
The financial system collapsed. Housing prices cratered. Unemployment is at a record high for the last quarter-century. The Democratic president has a solidly positive job rating.

Yup - and it all started falling aprart in 2007, after 27 years of mostly Republican control. The party that loves corporations, CEO's, banks, mortgage companies and insurance companies. They were in cahoots with all those richie riches and said the corporates didn't have ENOUGH MONEY!

While the rest of us had TOO MUCH!

How can a country be prosperous if it is like a monarchy where the few elite have all the money and the us peasants make less and less?

How can the government exist when after the US debt had fallen from its high after WWII and continuously fell. UNTIL Ronnie, Bush I and Bush II. Then it soared.

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

Even Clinton left Bush II with a SURPLUS and it was gone in seconds when Bush got selected president.


Heckf a job, Repubs!


Now as usual Democrats have to fix it all!

Rising unemployment due to Cap & Trade

The official national unemployment rate is currently 9.5%. Currently it is 10.2 in Fl. Cap and trade will help soar the unemployment number and maybe those on welfare will have to redistribute their welfare checks to help those who lost their jobs because of C&T. After all, isn't redistribution a grand concept--or is it?

POLITICAL HUMOR
My parents were always a big fan of Will Rogers, a writer and political humorist (1879-1935). Recall some of his political humor that is fitting for today showing that nothing has really changed:

A cannibal is a good deal like a Democrat, they are forced to live off each other.
I have not aligned myself with any party. Sitting tight waiting for an attractive offer.
Republicans want a man that can lend dignity to the office. Democrats want a man that will lend some money.
Republicans have always been the party of big business. The Democrats of small business. So you just take your pick. The Democrats have their eye on a dime and the Republicans on a dollar.
If by some divine act of providence we could get rid of both parties and hire some good men, like any other good business does, that would be sitting pretty.
No animal in the world gets quite as hungry as a Democrat. He would rather make a speech than a dollar.
The whole trouble with the Republicans is their fear of an increase in income tax, especially on higher incomes.
If we could just send the same bunch of men to Washington for the good of the nation and not for political reasons, we could have the most perfect government in the world.
A politician is just like a pickpocket. It’s almost impossible to get one to reform.

If you ever injected truth into politics you have no politics.
Ain’t it funny how many hundreds of thousands of soldiers we can recruit with nerve. But we can’t find one politician in a million with backbone.
Everybody nowadays is suggesting ways of getting prosperous on somebody else’s money.

Being serious or being a good fellow has got nothing to do with running this country. If the breaks are with you, you could be a laughing hyena and still have a great administration.
In this country people don’t vote for, they vote against.
A statesman is a man that can do what the politician would like to do but can’t because he is afraid of not being elected.

Dem Support
Tne Dems are losing the independent voters in drove during the last 2 weeks. Obama's fav rating has gone negative. The Dems lose the generic ballot.

The Rep brand is in shambles. The Rep Party needs someone who can speak to the independents. That is not Palin. She revs up the base, all 23% of the voters.

If Romney can remove the plexiglass between him and the voters he might be able to reach them. Huckabee might also.

Someone needs to step up and seize the moment.

those who want more gov't
the polls can't reveal who are posting these numbers.

But as we have seen the parasites who rely on gov't handouts tend to vote exclusively for the dims.

Plus we have a growing number of persons who not only pay no income taxes but are part of the group flap ears also wants to include in his income redistribution.

Until the country wakes up and realizes that enabling and rewarding parasites only continues poor economic policies were continue down the road to socialism.

But the dims are only concerned with votes and will buy as many as necessary to keep them in power

Protest Site
This is an excellent site to keep on file. They ahve a number of different letters and petitions they send to Congress all the time.

http://www.grassfire.org/122/petition.asp?PID=21433900&NID= 1

Jojo11
You asked: "why do people in general still have such a favorable opinion of Obama?"

One reason is that every time he says what he wants and intends to do, the media and others insist that he "really didn't mean what he said". Too many people are hoping he didn't and are believing them.

Personally, I believe exactly what he says - and I don't like it a bit. That's one reason I voted against him.

george
The next President can NOT change Obama's stuff - but the next Congress can! All of this is passed by Congress (although they like to blame the bad stuff on the President to keep their names from getting dirty). It can also be un-passed by Congress. All the President really can do is sign their bills or veto them. What Obama and friends are trying to do now it get it passed fast before people realize what is going on because it is difficult to get any legislature to un-pass something. But it can be done if enough voters make a fuss.

So make all the fuss you can now. Some Congress people are actually listening. Luckily, mine here locally is already on my side: Ron Paul.

Majority of People
The majority of people are not stupid although you might think so if you went to Huffington Post or similar. Even welfare people aren't totally stupid. I have been expecting the polls to start showing it. I believe that Obama and friends know this too. That is the main reason I think they are trying so hard to get all their "want" items through Congress as fast as possible before the tide turns against them and people start contacting their Congressmen in protest.

Personally I contact my Congressmen frequently and have several times on the hate crimes bill, the health care bill, and the cap-and-trade bill they are trying to ramrod through right now. ALL HERE SHOULD DO THE SAME!! If you aren't sure how to contact them, call your local newspaper. They can tell you. The Congresspeople are listening as several of these items are slowing down. In fact, on illegal immigration, several Democrat Congressmen are now voting to require E-Verify, one of the things most Democrats do NOT want to pass.

Bear sign...
Today: California banks" "We will no longer take state IOU's!"
Next month. China: "We will no longer take US IOU's!"
Next year: America: "We will no longer take the republicrat's, "You owe us!"

What I want to know
Is it possible for the next president to undo all of Obamas destructive programs in 2012? For example sell the government interest in all the private corporation takeovers? Maybe can government healthcare and resind cap and trade and the myriad of other polocies designed to break the back of american economy and reduce our ability to compete in a global market?

Jerry
Obama is a committed Marxist ideologue, just as is Nancy Pelosi, Bill Ayers, etc. They put their Marxist utopian dream ahead of anything else. They would sooner see this country fail than bend their ideology. In fact, part of their plan, derived from the teachings of Cloward-Piven, is to overload the system and break the economy in order to remake it in the Marxist mold.

Unfortunately, Jerry, your second hypothesis, "perhaps his ( Obama's )'doings' are intentional and agenda driven, making our President a threat to our freedoms and wallets" is the truth. The unwashed masses have opened Pandora's box in Obama.

Obama the man.
I feel in my heart, that Barack Obama is a good man. He's obviously a decent person, good husband, loving, caring father to his beautiful children. By now most readers think I'm a liberal "Kool-Aid" drinker. Not so! I can't stand the man's policies and resultant spending. Proven methods of economic correction (i.e., Reagan's), are ignored and it seems, history as well. In other words, While our Presidebt may be a fine, intelligent, charismatic figure, he doesn't really seem as if he knows what he's doing. Or, perhaps his "doings" are intentional and agenda driven, making our President a threat to our freedoms and wallets. I think Mr. Obama, despite his obvious good points, is a dangerous man.

Curmudgeon and George
Well, Curmudgeon, it appears that your father and mine are twin brothers of different mothers!
You, in your life experience, have sacrificed more than me. I never wanted for anything essential in my youth but did work virtually full-time from age 17 until I was forced to "retire" from my job last year at age 52 due to the economic downturn. I was too young to serve in Vietnam but may yet get a chance to put my life on the line to preserve our country.

AS George said, "They ( our forefathers ) were willing to sacrifice everything for what they believed in home, family and their very lives."
It looks to me, the way things are shaping up, that I may too fall into that category. However, the enemy I may have to fight is domestic, except for their leader.

The Loyal Majority
I am old enough to remember when the same kind of people we see in control of all three branches used to run and hide even at a rumor of sunlight; and when the mere mention of the name McArthy used to make them wet their panties. Now they are all proudly in the open, and they have been gaining more and more power over our lives and taking more of our rights and freedoms away every day. This could only happen with a dummed down American Electorate and a failing press dominated by these very kind of people.

I'm gladdened to hear that there is evidence in the polling that Americans are beginning to wake up and smell the coffee. In spite of all the money and effort spent in the public school system over the past forty years (where the concept of a liberal education has been turned sideways to be merely mean,education by liberals) which was focused on rewriting the history of our country; not to mention the high hopes of liberals when test results in recent years revealed their successes in that many young Americans of college age don't even know who we fought in World War II......there may yet be a renaissance in our time.

One can only imagine how depressing this latest news is to the so called "Progressives." I tend to call them what they are; "Communists," because "a rose by any other name.....".

Perhaps freedom (as we saw with the onset of prohibition many years ago) once tasted cannot easily be denied. Perhaps it will take government oppression and violence against the people as we see in Iran. Perhaps there truely is a genetic predisposition in Americans that causes them never to forget that their rights are not granted by any government, but "endowed by their creator".

We should begin now by renewing our faith in the wisdom of the founding fathers. They were right after all, the price of freedom truely is "vigilance."

Let the renaissance begin in 2010.....vivre la Renaissance!


kerijay
Thanks for the link I signed and sent to my contacts.

Do Something about it:
A must read for any/all American's that care about the future.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/8/an-open-letter-to-our-nati ons-leadership

Exactly TruLib
The government is ignoring the will of the people. as I have stated before this is the time our fore fathers would have started revolution. I am scared of the thought and I also believe there aren't enough true patriots willing to do what it takes to save our nation. The only action left with a chance of working is real revolution beginning with marches and crowds in D.C. demanding real representation or else. Its not going to happen though because we are not of the same ilk as the men who forged this nation were. They were willing to sacrafice everything for what they believed in home, family and their very lives. Even though you know in your heart of hearts our government is no longer representing our wishes how many of us our willing to give everything to take back our nation before it become a socialist regime?

Exactly TruLib
The government is ignoring the will of the people. as I have stated before this is the time our fore fathers would have started revolution. I am scared of the thought and I also believe there aren't enough true patriots willing to do what it takes to save our nation. The only action left with a chance of working is real revolution beginning with marches and crowds in D.C. demanding real representation or else. Its not going to happen though because we are not of the same ilk as the men who forged this nation were. They were willing to sacrafice everything for what they believed in home, family and their very lives. Even though you know in your heart of hearts our government is no longer representing our wishes how many of us our willing to give everything to take back our nation before it become a socialist regime?

hosquatch, i see
your experience, and raise. you write "like my own father, who feel they deserve to be supported by government for life, and who will vote for whoever promises the most candy, just like the welfare class."
my father worked for the government, at a time when government workers were relatively underpaid. i was raised poor. too "rich" for welfare, but lived without the things welfare recipients took for granted. while other kids were playing sports, i was working. we grew almost all our own food, did without almost everything, got educated, and learned to support ourselves. my father, who has the mental capacity to think for himself, is tied financially to the democrats. he has now been retired longer than he worked, has collected several times in retirement benefits what he earned, yet he still maintaines that the level of largess he is receiving is owed. he votes for every destructive democratic idea, hates all non-democrats, and will not allow anyone to express a non-liberal thought anywhere near him. he is absolutely unable to understand that the democratic party he grew up with is not the party he gives his allegance to. paycheck definitely does determine political allegance, and the democratic "majority" is paid for by the taxpayer.

voting rights ..

A really interesting model was proposed by Robert A. Heinlein in his novel _Starship Troopers_. The model was thus:

Citizenship, and the right to vote, was limited to persons who served in the military for at least two years. All other residents were either permanent residents with full constitutional rights, except the right to vote, or resident aliens.

The key benefit of this is that the electorate would be comprised of people who have shown by their service a willingness to place the survival of the nation ahead of their personal comfort and survival.

This is not perfect, but beats the tar out of "warm body democracy", whose attendant defects have been pointed out by other posters on this thread.

next step ....

So, folks, the issue is what to specifically do? The short story is that a measure of health would be restored to this Republic if the political class learned to fear the people. Try this on for size, and be prepared for growling from the troll pit -

Resolved: the excesses of the Federal government are so extreme that we need to abandon all loyalty to currently elected members of the House of Representatives, and replace every one of them in 2010.

But something bad might happen, you say? I respond by saying that your elected representative has been a party to the monstrous actions happening in Congress by their very presence. Did your representative stand forth and loudly say we are witnessing tyranny being imposed before our very eyes? If not, you know they are too punctilious to proclaim the obvious, and you deserve a representative made of sterner stuff.

The optimist cheerfully says that things could always be worse - how long are you willing to wait for confirmation? 2010 may be our last opportunity to blunt a disaster of biblical proportions.

Lilly, I hate to feed trolls but...
I stand by my assertion that those on the federal dole should not be allowed to vote due to conflict of interest. Their natural tendency is to vote for anyone who will keep their "heroin" coming.

That said, I would exclude veterans from that voting ban. To me, veterans have paid their dues and are in a special class. Veterans disabled by war wounds should be supported by the government for life, with deep appreciation for their sacrifices on behalf of a grateful nation.

As for seniors, I have mixed emotions. Most seniors DID have their income confiscated by Democrats during their working careers, and subsequently squandered. They deserve something back. However, there are also many seniors, like my own father, who feel they deserve to be supported by government for life, and who will vote for whoever promises the most candy, just like the welfare class. I tend to think that seniors accepting social security beyond what they paid into the system should surrender their voting rights at that point, again due to conflict of interest. Otherwise, they will rob their own children and grandchildren.

lilly
you blather " I expect that to you "on the federal dole" means "black welfare recipient". But ALL citizens have a right to Social Security, VA benefits, Unemployment Compensation, Workers' Compensation, Medicare, and hopefully soon, health care. You too. Even you."

again, bless your heart, you are wrong. but that is your job. you are a liberal. wrong is what you do. i work in a white area. the welfare cheaters, disability chislers, and other paid democratic voters i refer to are white, with a sprinkling of other demographics, which are no more prone to the liberal diseases than the majority. as to your assertion that all citizens have a "right" to your list of benefits, you are liberally wrong by anyone's criteria, even your ignorant and opinionated own, regarding VA benefits, which even you the perpetually wrong will have to concede are only available to people who have been in the military, which includes me, but probably not you. the rest or your entitlement list is a matter of opinion, with obligatory nannystaters like you saying yes, and thinking people and the actual constitution saying no.

lilly
Do you think it is alright for a harvard educated person to violate federal laws? Obama does this every day,by smoking.He also violated the very law he supported ,by firing Mr. Walpin.

Obama
The ultra left-wing has waited a very long time to implement what you see being voted on recently. Neither they nor Obama could give a rats behind less what any mere serf thinks or cares. Drop your pants and grab your ankles OR get out and do something about this debacle.
"We the People" are coming and we're po'd to the max! (This applies to the compliant Republicans as well as the Democrats.)

lilly
i usually dont respond to your diatribes because i suspect that you are a paid proxy for the democommunist party. you appear to be one of the reigning townhall trolls, and as such dont deserve much attention. but you attack me personaly, which is the nature of democommunists. i read, listen to, and respect the medical opinion of government employee medical researchers frequently. that is part of my business. i am near 65, and have no intention of becoming a social security taker. i am all too aware that social security is a government criminal enterprise, and i have no intention of joining in on the looting, even if that option is still available to me when i am 65, which i believe is seriously open to question. i may have overreached in my inclusion of nea members, becuase not all nea members are socialist kooks, just the ones making the decisions. since nea membership is not realy an option for teachers, i concede that there are teachers who are not socialists bent on the destruction of america. but i also concede that if teachers as a whole were honorable, they would get rid of the leadership and philosophy of the nea, and they havent. i dont agree with everything joel writes, but he is right way more often than not, and i would accept joel as leader before you or your ignorant opinionated ilk. btw. since when have i disallowed the opinions of people who disagree with me? the ignorant have the megaphone in our dying republic.

To Hosquatch
You would prevent American citizens from voting if they are "on the federal dole"---look around your neighborhood. You are talking about all of your neighbors over 65 who receive Social Security and Medicare. I suggest you stop them to chat next time you see them and tell them you don't think they have any business voting. Maybe next Election Day you could stand outside the polling place with a big sign saying "No Senior Citizens Allowed". And don't forget to exclude any neighbors who've been laid off and are getting Unemployment Compensation.

And how about wounded veterans? In World War II my brother in law was CPO on a ship that was torpedoed by the Japanese; he was blown off the bridge and picked up out of the water with 14 fractures in his skull. He has been on disability ever since---federal money that has come to him automatically every month of his life. I know he will appreciate your opinion that he has no right to vote.

Curmudgeon, try engaging your brain before you speak. I expect that to you "on the federal dole" means "black welfare recipient". But ALL citizens have a right to Social Security, VA benefits, Unemployment Compensation, Workers' Compensation, Medicare, and hopefully soon, health care. You too. Even you.


To curmudgeon
You don't want to hear the opinion of a reknowned cancer researcher with an MD and also a PhD in biochemistry, working at the National Institutes of Medicine, because he is a government employee (in your book, not "self-supporting). You don't want to hear the opinion of "Social Security takers", which eliminates most Americans over 65 (do you think people automatically become stupid at that age?). You don't want to hear the opinion of a high school math teacher with two Master's degrees because he is a member of the NEA.

It sounds as if you want to hear only from people like yourself, no matter that other folks might be well-educated and lead very competent lives. You might agree with Joel the Oppressor who wants to limit the vote to married males over 35 who have been in the military and attend church.

If you don't allow the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you, and want only people exactly like yourself to call the shots, then indirectly you are saying you want to control society and be the boss of everbody. Is that about accurate?

Curmudgeon...
I agree with your post. I have long said that we need some sort of voter test before being allowed to cast a ballot. Anyone who cannot answer some simple civics questions or who is on the federal dole should not be allowed to vote. This is similar to the idea of the Founding Fathers who considered allowing only landowners the vote but, unfortunately, did not include that stipulation.

I also agree with your take on the end result. Unless public sentiment dramatically shifts against Obama, and soon, the only question that really remains is whether or not the US military will fire upon civilians when all hell breaks loose. Why do you think Obama has 80,000 US troops training in Georgia for insurrection control and has proposed his own "civilian security force", which would be an armed ACORN?

The Obama is about to hit the fan!

Article is Inaccurate
Thursday July 9---Wall Street Journal per Google News: Unemployment applications are at their lowest point since January.

Jojo11
It could be the way the question is posed?
I can't figure out how anyone can have any kind of respect for this apologist in chief, any American who is proud to be American has to be
insulted by his apology tours and resentful of his genuflecting before a foreign king and the muslim world.
I once had a pastor that used to tell us when someone claims something, you ask who wrote the book and where did he get the information?

Understanding ObamaNomics 3 of 3
Continued from part 2

Understanding the principle of Ausnahmezustand.

Barack Obama used the word 'CRISIS' 25 times in his speech about signing the 'Obama Stimulus Fiasco', where most who voted for the Bill had NOT even read the Bill.

The 'First Step' in Socialism, take control of financial systems and devalue the currency by taxation, borrowing, spending and printing worthless money.

Critical thinkers realized the first clue that something was really wrong about Barack Obama, was when he rushed through his economic plan because of the crisis and then borrowed huge amounts of money (to reduce debt?) and now is sitting on most of that money.

Crisis after Crisis are now bubbling to the top across America, from the State of California to Cities like Detroit Michigan.

Barack Obama is focusing everyone’s attention on 'Free Health Insurance' that will cost the Taxpayers Trillions of dollars.

The Obama Administration has withheld irrigation water to the most fertile 100,000 square miles of food producers in the World, in California, causing even more unemployment and financial stress and soon massive food shortages.

Ausnahmezustand in simple terms is the Necessity of declaring 'Martial Law', which "Temporarily" suspends existing rights, rules and regulations in order to deal with the "Crisis".

"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set," he said. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded."
Barack Obama Speech July 2, 2008 Colorado Springs CO

This statement debunks any notion that Ausnahmezustand wasn't part of the Obama agenda long before election.

Obama is patient and will wait until the crisis is such that people will want 'Martial Law' and him as the Decision Maker or 'Supreme Leader'.

Understanding ObamaNomics 2 of 3
Continued from part 1

Understanding the principle of Führerprinzip (Obama Czars).

"The philosophy of this system is that each organization is seen as a hierarchy of leaders, where every leader (Führer, in German) has absolute responsibility in his/her own area, and complete subordination.

This idea was based on the function of military organizations where it is still used today.

The notion behind the civil use of the Führerprinzip was that unquestioning obedience to superiors produces order and prosperity, which would be shared by those deemed 'worthy'. Given the chaotic state of the Weimar Republic between 1919 and 1933, this philosophy of 'cutting through red tape' was regarded by many Germans as a welcome change to what they had endured earlier.

This principle was the law of the Nazi party and later transferred onto the whole German society.

Most notable changes include the replacement of elected local governments by appointed mayors and the cancellation of associations and unions, whose leaders were elected, and their replacement by mandatory associations whose leaders were appointed.

The private corporations were allowed to keep their internal organization, which was just renamed, from hierarchy to Führerprinzip.

In practice, the selection of unsuitable candidates often led to micromanagement and inability to formulate coherent policy was common.

Albert Speer noted that many Nazi officials were very afraid of making decisions unless Hitler was present.

The Führerprinzip, German for "leader principle" prescribes a system with a hierarchy of leaders that resembles a military structure.

This principle was applied to civil society at large in National Socialist Germany."

continued in part 3

Understanding ObamaNomics 1 of 3

Everyone who still Supports Barack Obama or those who 'ObamaHope' that the economy will somehow recover, are all making the same basic mistake about Barack Obama.

They 'Feel' or think Barack Obama wants an economic recovery, before he finalizes his plans.

Many like Colin Powell, think Barack Obama is simply attempting too much at once, because of inexperience, naivety or possibly even lack of knowledge.

Many Barack Obama supporters think that the economic initiatives of Barack Obama or continuing those attempted by George Bush or a combination will somehow result in an economic recovery.

That thinking couldn’t be further from the Truth.

Barack Obama has effectively blocked anything that might help the economy or reduce unemployment and fueled anything that hurts the economy or raises unemployment.

ObamaCare that has popular support will probably be the death knell of the American economic system, with massive borrowing and spending, tightly coupled with higher taxes and inflation.

A Marxist/Socialist totalitarian Government with Barack Obama as ‘Supreme Leader’ is the goal.

The only ones NOT recognizing this appear to be most Americans.

"Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez said on Tuesday that he and Cuban ally Fidel Castro risk being more conservative than U.S. President Barack Obama as Washington prepares to take control of General Motors Corp.

During one of Chavez's customary lectures on the "curse" of capitalism and the bonanzas of socialism, the Venezuelan leader made reference to GM's bankruptcy filing....

"Hey, Obama has just nationalized nothing more and nothing less than General Motors.”

The principle of Führerprinzip begins to explain the process.

Continued in part 2

the only opinion poll
that i am interested is the poll of the opinions of people who are self supporting. i have no interest in the opinions of the legions of parasites that infest our dying republic. why take a poll to determine what a disability chisler thinks? who needs a poll to discover the politics of a welfare parasite? why poll illegal aliens, acorn criminals, social security takers, or nea members? their opinions are fixed, and left. the only question that remains is when does the shooting start, and who is going to shoot best. as a nation we are beyond the possibility of a small-d democratic solution due to the prevalence of large-D "solutions" dictated by the majority which is receiving largess from the government.

Cap & Tax Will Kill The Oil Industry
If you think we can get along without oil and gas very long pass that bill. Louisiana provides 40% of the oil and gas for the country and it passes through the pipelines crossing the state, too. If Congress passes Cap and Trade-thus killing the LA economy, do you think that you can handle the gasoline and utility bills for very long? Remember Katrina? Katrina's effect on oil, natural gas, and gasoline production will be as nothing to what this will do to our national economy.

Its time to stop being stupid. Alan Combs said that "you have to take the long view of this. It will be ultimately good for the country." How is making America a third world economy with a tremendous debt and no way to pay it back, a good deal for the country? Oh that's right, we want to make it another Soviet Union, or East Germany, before the wall came down, so that Obama will finally build the wall along the borders, BUT to keep people IN rather than out.

Rick
Do you seriously believe $80K per year is "low income"? You need to actually read the SCHIP legislation before mouthing off.

...I'll admit, I haven't read the "Help a Vet" Kennedy bill, but if it's Kennedy's bill, I know there's more to the story.

Frankly
This shouldn't surprise anybody.

The only surprising thing is how Obama's individual approval numbers continue from all appearances to remain positive. Stunts like his jetting off to NYC for a date with Michelle on the taxpayers' dime should outrage people, but evidently a majority don't seem to care that much. Either that, or it's just an unwillingness on the part of voters to express dislike for the man they voted for.

All Bull - continued
"It's still possible for American attitudes to shift, if the Democrats' economic policies are passed and are seen to revive the economy. But it hasn't happened yet." Here is the smoking gun. It clearly and concisely states that actual motives that conservatives, aka GOP, have toward anything and everything that the GOP votes on. Such as the SCHIP vote earlier this year. Republican's showed how unimportant our children are by voting overwhelmingly against expanding healthcare to low income children. What, will it motivate them, as "being hungry will motivate"? Republican'ts also showed how low they view our Veteran's by voting against Kennedy's bill to expand volunteerism to our vets. The bill offers $500 toward tuition for volunteers, as a motivator for highschool seniors to spend their summer working for vets. It's a very small motivator, but it is expected to bring in a few hundred thousand volunteers.

Republican'ts voted overwhelmingly against it.

So, Republican'ts and therefore conservatives are against our vets and our children.

NO? Well then they are using their votes for politically motivated obstruction, in an effort to obfuscate their real motive. That motive being to create bad impressions of Democrats, for political gain.

End-

All BULL until the end, when true colors
-are shown. As with any political opponent scheme from conservatives aka Republican'ts, it is to be seen as the party of lower taxes and less government. When reality can be proven different by actually knowing what happens, especially from Bush II. (Oh, does reality have ring of blame? It shouldn't, that's not the point!) What reality is, is that Republican'ts - conservatives have one desire. That is to regain power.

The only motivation of the GOP is to restore their version of their world. It's pathetic to watch. You guys use obstructive obfuscation like a balm for all your ills. Sadly all you're really doing is proving that you obstruct progress for nothing more than political motives.

"the unexpected economic boom that resulted from low taxes in the 1980s." This is a lie.
Actually Reagan raised taxes hugely in 1982-83 and many time more. As he was told and finally realized his tax cuts would do nothing more than create an unprecedented deficit increase (outside of a world war). So, what is this to actually explain. It's to show that this article uses lies to make a politically motivated position that will obstruct legislation and alter positives to become negatives.

Continued--

Polls Are Stupid, Barone
An "average" American does not understand deficits, big government, health care reform, etc. They hear some of the mouthing from ABCNBCNPRCBSHUFFINGTONSOROSCNN that now may say that those things may be a problem. Barone, tell me of reactions from the first 10 people you meet on an ordinary street as to what is the good and bad aspects of 32 consecutive years of U.S. trade deficits. The results should tell you of the intelligence of the "average" American. We are stupid because we went to stupid school -- also a program ran by the gubermint.

the voters
should have paid attention to FOX NEWS and Glenn Beck before the election

ObamaNomics is succeeding...
In cratering America. Like this is news to most of us? I'm chuckling as his robots finally get rewired!

I suggest checking out this guy, who gives it to Obama and liberals in general, DAILY. http://www.theblacksphere.net. A black conservative who tells it like it is. He is REFRESHING!

His book is http://www.amazon.com/BIG-Black-Lie-Learned-Democrat/dp/06 1530222X and is a PHENOMENAL read! Already up for one award

PAYBACKS ARE A B****

Just try paying bills with IOUs.

That's what our government is doing by making American taxpayers liable for the trillions of our dollars they are throwing into the pockets of big business, unions, Acorn, their supporters and politicians.

Since that's the way our government wants to play their game, American taxpayers should follow suit and 'payback' the government at tax time with a sincere and humble 'IOU'.

We Are Toast
Most of the passengers of the Titanic thought it was a bad idea to hit the iceberg. There is a huge iceberg on our horizon and Obama is aiming the boat in that direction. That most of us don't want to go in that direction doesn't phase him at all.

'As new Orange goes.'
Hard to form the 'collective' in the age(s) of flying one’s own banner.

The internet and the atomization of the individual within cyber screens and social site anonymity, fundamentally alters the need for individuals to aggregate by rubbing shoulders.

Big Government is a call to congregate. It is the promise gone large. You join us and we'll become you exponentially.

Hard sell for millions that need only a power source to see everything to satiate anything.

The 'big sell', the chant to change health care, the spending, the push to tax industry to serve environmental chimeras, the nationalization of the auto sector, scare the atomized individual beyond the frenzy that allowed them to vote for the Administration in November.

Barack Obama entered victory in his column owing to a rent in the space, time, and social continuum. Without a war that bled, an October financial surprise, and a society unable to place accurate responsibility for politicians and their perfidy, Mr. Obama would never have gotten past Iowa much less Chicago.

Mr. Obama and Mr. Axelrod are flukes. Americans are revolted by their inner values and their eyewash, won't wash as citizens see the folly of these collectivists and slide away from them as easily as they themselves slid up to victory.



Obama does not care about money...
Obama is driven by ideas. He is going to do what he needs to do to bring these ideas into fruition. He feels he is right, that he holds all of the answers, and that time will justify his decisions.

Too bad Obama is not grounded in reality. Many of his ideas are not just unpopular--as the polls suggest--they are also unworkable.

The real problem--why do people in general still have such a favorable opinion of Obama? The general public regrettably show their ignorance when they say the guy who does the things they do not like is doing a good job. This of course leads to a second problem--why do they get to take us along on this voyage of the Titanic?

Obama
promises to add $9 trillion to the national debt before two terms are up. You know that politicians always underestimate their spending and overestimate revenues. So, the real number is probably in the neighborhood of $15 trillion.

Yawn.
The polls show that American attitudes are changing -- but we're not sure why, or how, or who, or where, or even when. It just seems that history bears this out. So prepare for the inevitable, whatever that may be.
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