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Thursday, July 02, 2009
Michael Barone :: Townhall.com Columnist
Firefighter Case Shows Seamy Side of Racial Politics
by Michael Barone
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The Supreme Court's decision in Ricci v. DeStefano, the case of the New Haven firefighters, was a ringing endorsement of the Civil Rights Act of 1964's ban on racial discrimination and a repudiation of Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor's decision in the Second Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals. While five justices flatly rejected Sotomayor's ruling, even the four dissenters wouldn't have let stand her ruling allowing the results of a promotion exam to be set aside because no black firefighter had a top score.

Ricci is also something else: a riveting lesson in political sociology, thanks to the concurring opinion by Justice Samuel Alito. It shows how a combination of vote-hungry politicians and local political agitators -- you might call them community organizers -- worked with the approval of elite legal professionals like Sotomayor to employ racial quotas and preferences in defiance of the words of the Civil Rights Act.

One of the chief actors was the Rev. Boise Kimber, a supporter of Mayor John DeStefano. The mayor testified for him as a character witness in a 1996 trial in which he was convicted of stealing prepaid funeral expenses from an elderly woman. DeStefano later appointed Kimber the head of the board of fire commissioners, but Kimber resigned after saying he wouldn't hire certain recruits because "they just have too many vowels in their name."

After the results of the promotion test were announced, showing that 19 white and one Hispanic firefighter qualified for promotion, Kimber called the mayor's chief administrative officer opposing certification of the test results.

The record shows that DeStefano and his appointees went to work, holding secret meetings and concealing their motives, to get the Civil Service Board to decertify the test results. Kimber appeared at a board meeting and made "a loud, minutes-long outburst" and had to be ruled out of order three times.

City officials ignored the inconvenient fact that they had hired an independent and experienced firm -- this is a thriving business -- to draw up a bias-free test and paid a competing firm to draw up another test. Its head testified that the first firm's test was biased without seeing it. The board capitulated and decertified the test. DeStefano was prepared to overrule it if it had gone the other way.

Such is governance these days in a liberal university town. It may remind some of us old enough to remember of the machinations and contrivances of Southern white officials and agitators employed to prevent blacks from registering and voting.

This is the sort of thing Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg described in the text as just the workings of politics. Writing in Slate, Yale Law faculty member Emily Bazelon goes further. She laments that the promotion test rewarded memorization and that it favored "'fire buffs' -- guys who read fire suppression manuals on their down time."

She is outraged that a fire department might want to promote firefighters who know more about suppressing fires, rescuing victims and protecting their colleagues rather than simply promote a predetermined number of members of specific racial groups whose self-appointed political spokesmen back the politicians in office.

Bazelon and Sotomayor, who voted to uphold the city's decertification of the promotion test, are typical of liberal elites who are ready to ratify squalid political deals -- and blatant racial discrimination -- in return for the political support and the votes that can be rallied by the likes of Kimber. You supply the numbers on Election Day, and we'll supply the verbiage to put a pretty label on your shenanigans.

Usually the people who are hurt by this are not as sympathetic as Frank Ricci, the dyslexic firefighter who paid a friend $1,000 to read the training manuals and studied hard enough to get the highest score on the test.

But I think we ought to reserve some of our sympathy for the purported beneficiaries of this wretched discrimination, the black firefighters. Their champions -- Kimber and DeStefano, Bazelon and Sotomayor -- are telling them that their way up in life should not be determined by the content of their character or by mastery of their worthy craft, but by the color of their skin. Not by a fair and unbiased test, but by dishonest wire-pulling and threats of political retaliation.

Thanks to Justice Alito, for pulling back the curtain and showing the ugly reality of racial discrimination in America today.

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About The Author
Michael Barone is a Fox News Channel contributor and co-author of The Almanac of American Politics. He is Senior Political Analyst for the Washington Examiner and a Resident Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, a Fox News Channel contributor and co-author of The Almanac of American Politics.
 
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This was a filthy
piece of business. Clearly the decision of the city to overturn the test results was blatantly racist. No one fit to be a judge would ever have sanctioned what was done to the fire fighters. Sotomayor is a radical leftist political hack who is a disgrace to the bench.

To elevate her to the Supreme Court is abominable. But, what you expect from Barack Obama?

Victory against true oppression
I am thrilled for the victory of the firemen. This was a case of "racial bullying" by the "minority" side of the argument. We must not allow racism to permeate our decisions, regardless of the ethnic group it is against (yes, white are discriminated against, too).

If they put Sotomayor in the Supreme Court, this nation will regret it.

Objecting to anything BHO says is racist
(according to his adoring fans)

Voting for BHO because he is black really is racist.

Throwing out test results because they don't reinforce one's own stereotypes is racist.

Calling the detractors of BHO's incredibly faulty policies "racist" is, in itself, racist.

I'm tired of the Democrats' decision to play the race card every time they get cornered. It does, however, fit into their MO of attacking the character of every detractor rather than debating the issues.

Unfortunately, she's in!
The Dems have a veto-proof Senate, so there's no chance that she's not in. Well, if something truly damaging appears, like she had sex with a 15 year old boy while in her 30s, but that's not going to happen, so we need to brace ourselves and work to get responsible gov't back in office. 18 months to the mid-terms, folks! Are you working to make it happen?

Reserved sympathy?
Naw! They didn't object to any of this. Were I a white firefighter in New Haven, I wouldn't want one of them watching my back.

1st Impeached Supreme
I prdict if Soto-my-ar$e is chosen, she'll be the first Supreme removed from the bench. I suspect there will be an impeachable offense, based upon prior history and judicial temperament. She's basically J-Lo in robes, a prima donna, another empty robe.

If you like Kelo vs. Conn, you'll love this maladroit.

Corruption
...has so completely infected this country's institutions that nothing can save us now. Judges like Sotomayor - who disregard both the facts and the law and impose their emotion, whatever that happens to be at the moment, are the norm these days.

The judges are not accountable to anyone, there are no mechanisms that check their decisions except the higher courts, which are just as corrupt as the lower ones, if not more so. Many judges are more or less strident versions of Sonia Sotomayor; they do not care one bit what the law is, they make decisions intended to change society - they see themselves as social engineers, not as interpreters of the law. Or they decide based on the emotion of the moment, convinced as they are that in most disputes both side are lying.

What about the laws passed these days by the most crooked, corrupt bunch of humans ever assembled, the United States kongress? Could the laws they pass be anything but the expression of their disdain for the masses of morons who voted for them?

Door's Cracked Open
Now that the SCOTUS has overturned Ricci, it's time to get rid of Affirmative Action and Title VII for good.

You can't combat racism with racism.

It's amazing how quiet the Liberals are on this one because they know they don't have a leg to stand on.

Once again, rather than have an open debate supported by facts and evidence, they choose to ignore it and hope it goes away.

The Left loves to decry the '8 years of failed Bush policies' but turn a blind eye to the fact that this 45 year experiment in social engineering has turned into an abomination (no pun intended).

If decades of entitlement isn't enough to bring the 'minorities' out of poverty, then maybe...just maybe, the problem isn't the rest of Society...maybe the problem is the 'minorities' attitude.

Why would I want to cut the grass once a week for $5.00 when you're stupid enough to pay me $20.00 to cut it every two.

There's no incentive to work harder to earn my way, especially if I know that anybody who earns $50.00 a week has to give half of it to the 'community fund' to support the 'needy'.

It's time we started to actually live out MLK's dream instead of simply invoking his name every February...It's time to let every stand (or fall) on their own.

Equal Opportunity is a must.

Equal Results is a canard.



Ropati in CA
Your comments are sadly true. How else would a community organizer from Chicago be elected president.

The Dems can and will play the race card over and over because it works. There is so much white guilt regarding slavery and racism some people will go to any extreme to prove they are not racist.

Many of the black leaders want this devide in our country to keep themslves relevant.

Yes, this is why I gave up academia
Thankfully I quit before obtaining a full time job. Some of my dissertation professors at Tulane took me aside and said that I would never be able to get a job in a large metro area and would need to settle on a less than first rate university because of my race and gender (white guy). So I went on to law school. Good decision, at least in that respect. But when I got my first job as a type of prosecutor in Georgia, the black "Chief" took me and another caucasian male aside and said "I didn't know all white boys dressed the same," with a smirk. (We were both wearing leather jackets.)

I try not to complain, like 90% of African Americans in this country, as whining will get you nowhere. Just keep studying the truth. It will set you free. But I have never seen a minority group in history as pathetic as what we style "African American" in this country. What was once a proud group of folks has turned absolutely miserable except for a few who have rejected the racial spoils game. But most are just sad reminders of what Bull Connor was like several decades back - tables turned.

Nothing new
"It may remind some of us old enough to remember of the machinations and contrivances of Southern white officials and agitators employed to prevent blacks from registering and voting."
Those of us old enough to remember, also remember that those white southern officials were liberal democrats.
The Democratic Party is so deeply rooted in racism that overturning racism is equivalent to dissolving the party. They will fight to preserve racist policies, and create new ones, to the end.

An odor of mendacity
Racial politics in this country stinks! Bader-Ginsburg - just the workings of politics - should be ashamed of herself. She ignores the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which doesn't allow quotas. Sotomayer is cut from the same cloth. Neither belongs on the SCOTUS.

Rewarding skin color over qualifications with promotion is never wise. The results can be disastrous. Perhaps a better role model for African Americans would be Dr. Ben Carson, the outstanding pediatric neurosurgeon who achieved what he has through diligent study, hard work and character rather than the POTUS who is where he is by charm and guile rather than knowledge and experience.

I am a white woman who was once told by the principal of the school where she taught that, "White teachers could not teach Black kids, because they were not Black." Did she think the reverse was true? Of course not.

And African Americans aren't racist? Yeah right.

Qualified for the job is what counts.
Would this people who couldn't pass a test that was carefully designed to be able to passed by a black person like someone that incapable coming out to save their homes or lives when they needed a fireman? How stupid. I am an American of 7 nationalities. As well I have hispanic and American Indian blood. How about course in common sense here?

samplin_MO writes: "African Americans

aren't racist? Yeah right."

During my (now) many years on this earth, I've seen far more racism and bigotry from blacks than whites!

Unfortunately, I'm beginning to see a rise in racism and bigotry in the hispanic community as well.


Twisted Liberal Thinking...

"Yale Law faculty member Emily Bazelon ... laments that the promotion test rewarded memorization and that it favored 'fire buffs' -- guys who read fire suppression manuals on their down time.'"

Well DUH!

It's been a long time since my college and post grad days, but I distinctly recall that the courses I did best in were the courses I studied and "memorized" the course material the most.

In addition, during my many years in the Information Technology field, pretty much everyone with whom I worked, or who worked for me, did a LOT of reading and learning "on their down time."



Who's the better firefighter?
Is it the person who is enthusiastic about firefighting, who studies firefighting on his own time, learns independantly and then prepares diligently for a promotion test or is it the person who does just enough to get by without unduly taxing themselves? Who do you want showing up when your house is on fire?

Come on Barone!
Knowing how to suppress a fire isn't nearly as important as having diverse "cultural" viewpoints regarding why things burn in the first place. Perhaps if fire weren't so angry due to an oppressive society, it wouldn't lash out so aggressively! If we could just empathize with its wants and needs, maybe we could live in peace with it.


Sad But True
African Americans are probably the most racist people on earth. For years they fought for integration, rightfully so. But since they achieved it, they have done nothing but try to segregate themselves (BET, Black Miss America, Black Caucas, etc,etc,etc.) And when did African American become a race? Do we not have WHITE African Americans?

Thomas, you wrote...
"Now that the SCOTUS has overturned Ricci, it's time to get rid of Affirmative Action and Title VII for good."

They'd better hurry. It's likely that Obama will replace at least one conservative justice in his first term. That's all it will take to shift the balance. If he gets a second term, Katie Bar The Door; we'll have a liberal court for the next 30-40 years.

PURSUING THE AMERICAN DREAM
Out with the Old--the hard work of reading, studying, learning, researching, even attending classes in pursuit of the American Dream of success and reward.
In with the New--just stand in the politically correct line with the politically correct skin color, the politically correct heritage, knowing all the politically correct people, supporting the politically correct party in power and the American Dream is handed to you, without your doing a dam thing to earn it. For government simply takes the American Dream from those who had earned it in the past to use as bribery to continue to be voted into office and power.

Only in Bizarro World
is Sonia-baby qualified for SCOTUS. In the real world, she would be a disaster serving on a local school board.

Dhimmicrats are insane. Funny, hilarious even, when not in power - DANGEROUS and DESTRUCTIVE when they control everything.

Stand up against tyranny. Speak up, get involved.

Sign for the July 4 Tea Party: Secede NOW!!! Avoid the rush.

Fantastic artice by Barone
Barone hits this one out of the park. Liberals are racists and pervert reason and logic to support the race hustler industry.

One problem with our country today
is liberal jurists who believe that as long as they put on a show of empathy for those they screw, everything is all right. The white firefighters were screwed, so what does Baden-Ginsberg have to say? That she has empathy for them. They don't need no stinkin' empathy, Ruth, they need justice! Thank God they got it, but by the skin of their teeth. With votes on Constitutional issues that close, we are looking at the real possibiliy that after Obama stacks the court, he will scuttle the 22nd Amendment and we'll have a President-for-life.

Hitler observed in Volume 1, Chapter 10 of his book MEIN KAMPF that "One of the worst symptoms of decay was the increasing cowardice in the face of responsibility, as well as the resultant half-heartedness in all things." He was lamenting his country's parlimentary where "...irresponsibility of the purest breed is cultivated." All these things sound all to familiar in our own Congress today. It appears that Obama has closely studied Hitler's rise to power and he is using the same tactics for his own rise to power.

Very fine essay, Mr. Barone
But I would take exception with one thing: You initially identified Boise Kimber as "Rev. Boise Kimber." Kimber may work as a minister in some church, but that does not qualify him to be called "Reverend." "Reverend" is neither a title nor an honorific. It is not even a noun. It is an adjective with a very specific meaning, and, from what can be inferred from this case, it in no way describes Kimber. Evidently, a man that bigoted is most un-reverend.

So, drop "Reverend" from your writings about Kimber, please. Do the same for Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and even John Spong.

I'm a 22 year veteran
professional fire fighter in NJ. I have taken three promotional exams for Captain. The books needed are recommended by the state DOP and ALL of the material within the tests are from the books.Being a white male has some draw backs. In NJ, we have what is call The Consent Decree of 1986. The PD & FD must reflect the community racial make up. Once the tests ( Written & Verbal) are completed, DOP scores the test then it is sent to the Department of Justice for "Equalization" here is where the test scores are manipulated to have a more equal number of black & white high score applicants. Some questions are thrown out and some questions are scored less or more. Example: A multiple choice question with 4 possible answers...three of the answers are correct, one is wrong. Until the DOJ accepts it, the value of the 3 correct answers are unknown..A= 1 point B=2 points C= 3 points...or B could be 3 points. The values change until "Equality" has been achieved.Only the urban cities are under the Consent Decree.

Equal? I think not!

Dear Anne,
The Hispanics ain't dumb. They just copied the African-Americans' blueprint and it works! Now it's time for whites to do the same. Bwahahahahaha! See how far that would go. It wouldn't work for Asian-Americans either. Want to know why? I know this is going to sound so terribly racist -- but -- I'm only saying what I see -- Whites and Asians aren't the right color. Either that, or we're not as helpless as the others. Either way, it's racists as hell, and I'm sick and tired of it.

Michigander Wrote:
"They'd better hurry. It's likely that Obama will replace at least one conservative justice in his first term. That's all it will take to shift the balance. If he gets a second term, Katie Bar The Door; we'll have a liberal court for the next 30-40 years."

Have we noticed that Leftist appointees to the SCOTUS never turn out to be closet Constitutionalists, but supposed Conservative appointees sometimes come out of the closet and show themselves to be committed Leftists (or at best "swing" voters)?


Peter
What a brilliant scheme: the white firefighters' scores are adjusted downward, while the minority applicants' scores are adjusted upward, all in the name of "equality."

Ingenious!

Change?
Given that they couldn't bring themselves to eliminate Justice Department pre-clearance of what is certainly a state right (elections), I don't have any great expectation that Ricci is anything more than a temporary divergence from upholding discrimination against some.

Racial Politics from a Black Man
This is one of the best blogs on the net for handling racial politics! http://www.theblacksphere.net You will be HOOKED!

We need more nails
For Obama's coffin. Great job by Michael to alert us to the shennigans behind this case and how corrupt Sotomayor is and in turn how damaging Obama is to this economy and nation. It's one nail but we need more.
Thanks

Aurorawatcher . . .
Don't forget that a 30 year old woman with a 15 year old boy (or vice versa) is NORMAL in democRAT circles.
Pedophilia, rape, money laundering and even homicide (teddy kennedy) and other "crimes" are merely seen a "aberrations" by democRATS and would not require removal from office.
Best regards,

voters
What about the racist idiots that vote for that mayor.Proving once again it is the libs that are racist.

One more nail...ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
A not mentioned fact by the Obama administration is that 44% of the "uninsured" in Obama's health plan are illegal aliens.

So what Obama is asking us all to do is to be taxed on our benefits, pay 1 Trillion in additional taxes, accept healthcare rationing and allow the US Government to control our life or death treatments so that the Democrats can "buy" the Hispanic vote by giving healthcare to tens of millions of illegal immigrants.
That along with Obama's proposed Amnesty for Illegals will make sure our country is over run with poor Mexicans and Central Americans.

Say that loudly and clearly to the American public and the Obama health plan will go down in defeat.

"Sigh"
I see we have the typical demagoguery on Town hall concerning race and the recent Supreme Court decision to overturn the New Haven decision. What’s left out of the debate on this side of the aisle is that it was the viability of the test that was originally challenged. The test was thrown out because it was believed that the test was not an accurate indicator of who should and shouldn’t have received the promotions. For example, how can a multiple choice question measure someone’s leadership skills? Also, if you read Ginsburg’s dissent in the recent 5-4 decision –which I’m sure most of you haven’t- she discusses how some the black firefighters had trouble accessing the study materials in a timely and efficient manor and how this could have contributed to their low scores. But you guys just want to bash, bash, bash, blacks, blacks, blacks and those who support us.

Andrew Cloward and his wife
Francis Fox Piven were college professors writing a seminal article in the "Nation" magazine in 1966.


They laid out a strategy to destroy our United State civil society by overwhelming our welfare system and eventually to bring on a financial crisis to destroy our capitalist/free market system to replace it with an elite controlled socialist/fascist government.

The various movements that are destroying our country today come from an effort to overwhelm our society by a group of PROGRESSIVE Left wing saboteurs who now have control of our elected government.


GOOGLE "CLOWARD AND PIVEN" and educate yourselves on what they were planning on doing to our country. You will see the basic framework of Saul Alinsky, ACORN, SDS,THE BLACK CAUCUS, NATION magazine, and the various 77 members of THE PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS that is in our CONGRESS. They are not kidding around.

THey have a plan to destroy our country by overwhelming us with too many actions all taken at once and this is exactly what the Obama administration is trying to pull off before we realize what they are doing.

GOOGLE NOW and fight back.

Women Firefighters
I recall in the 90's when I lived in NYC they were lowering the standards so that women could more easily become firefighters. Women were failing the strength requirement of being able to haul or carry a heavy person from harm's way.
Never mind if people die, just bow to interest groups!

American shame.

Thomas, 6:26 AM... well said.

"You can't combat racism with racism."

Sad beyond words, but true

But the big question still remains.

Will enough minorities finally realise the absolute insanity of this... before many more of their own continue to get hurt???

And since Ms. Sotomayor is obviously engaged in racism... does that make her a racist?

And how does her being a "wise Latina woman" enable her to read the law more accurately than anyone else?

And why is it that when leftists call someone a racist... it seems okay?

But if a conservative does it... why does it invariably sit wrong with everyone?

Perhaps "the power in truth" lies in exposing someone's BEHAVIOR... rather than engaging in general and demeaning name-calling.

So America,

"Do we really want a Supreme Court justice who engages in open and hurtful racism???"

I hope not.

Interestingly enough, Ms. Sotomayor's approval numbers have declined to where more people now disapprove of her and recognise that her glaring lack of impartiality would bring great harm to the very thing that ensures our freedoms... EQUAL protection under the law.

But the jury awaits.



Dear Anthony Thomas
Sigh... I see we have the typical black reverse racism in fine fettle. What's missing from the discussion of this issue is that if a significant number of minority firefighters had passed the exam (far-fetched, I know), then the test would've been a satisfactory barometer for promotion. Only in the wake of their failure was the exam deemed "an inaccurate indicator" of advancement.

I find it fascinating that in professional sports, the bottom line is winning and as a result, profitability. Despite the fact that the NBA does not accurately reflect the nation's demographics, the owners and fans want the best players in the lineup regardless of race. How ironic that in a life and death vocation like fire fighting (or doctoring, or airline piloting), that employing the better prepared, most talented candidates must submit to some perceived quota system because setting standards for professionalism is racist. Sorry Tony, if my house is on fire, if I need brain surgery, if I'm on a airliner with a failed engine landing at night in a storm, I want the best... regardless of gender or skin color. The onus is on the individual to strive to attain that goal; not whine about the inconsistencies of fate.

Yes - This is Simply Discrimination
Thanks for pointing out how closely the decertification resembles efforts by old-style southern Democrats to enforce their bigotry. What's most stunning is the hypocriscy. Modern bigoted Democrats are using the exact same tricks and techniques that they loudly decry and condemn. It's also interesting to note that it's the party of progressive enlightenment that is working so hard to deny people equal justice and equal rights.

Supreme Court
I find it incredible that four Supreme Court Justices can find that racial discrimination against white males is acceptable.

test
I believe that test was chosen because it was race neutral.

Unbelievable.

The tragic Anthony Thomas returns.

Here is a man who wants equality of outcome, above all else... still not wanting to accept that the very act of discrimination winds up hurting the very one's that he wants to help.

And IF the black fire fighters somehow had trouble accessing the study materials this time... they should all do remarkably well on the very next exam.

But then of course, there will be some other excuse.

But Mr. Thomas' continued and truly outrageous claims that we are bashing blacks and their supporters, when we are in fact denouncing the very ugliness that is racism... is nothing but blatant race baiting on his part.

And that is beyond disgusting.

I sincerely hope that everyone puts him on ignore... and that he receives no direct replies.

Go away.



David CT
What portends the end of the white race and therefore Amerika and all of civilization is that the vote was not 9 to 0 instead of 5 to 4.

Anthony Thomas.
Your--and Ginsburg's--attitude is a fine example of "the soft bigotry of low expectations," just about the best phrase ever spoken by G.W. Bush (I know, and, by definition then, "evil").

Yep, expect less from those poor African Americans; you really CAN'T expect more; they're really not up to it; it's not in 'em; don't push them to try harder--you might damage their self-esteem. This is YOUR(pl.) attitude.

So, would you expect more of, say, an African American brain surgeon? Or of the guy maintaining that super jet you're about to board? Or is the best he can do with his limited ability good enough?

It's a destructive and counter-productive attitude, but it's unlikely to change as long as the Democrats insist on its implementation--which they will do until it's no longer effective.

Only one minority
In America
The individual.

Everything else is racism

I'm glad we all agree that we should
look beyond race.

This country is teeming with qualified white, black, hispanic, gay, jewish, atheist, asian candidates.


If the republican party EVEN THINKS of putting Newt Gingrich or Mark Sanford or Sarah Palin or John McCain up in 2012 --- than this whole racial thread is bunk.

Many white candidates should not be running. There are better white candidates than those I listed above. We caucasians have to clean our own house up before we start criticizing other races.

I see a day coming
When everyone will need to identify their politics by the color of their skin if this racist woman gets a pass with everyone knowing she is a bigot.

Let alone an incompetent who cannot even get 1/2 of any decision she pens the opinion on that was taken higher.

She is an embarrassment to the Law Profession and American Principles

Martin Luther King
In his I have a dream speech, Dr. Martin Luther King said, "I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.". What would Dr. King have to say about what has happened since he gave that speech. Would he say that his dream of "all men being equal" has been fulfilled?

Scottk/Polly
You both ignored the central point of my post, and instead have chosen to disparage me by saying that I’m “race baiting” with no evidence of such. Why are we not debating the viability of the test or if the multiple choice exam could truly measure someone’s leadership skills? Why do you ignore the information in Ginsburg’s dissent that state that some of the black workers had difficulty getting the study materials in an efficient and timely manor
You both ignored the central point of my post, and instead have chosen to disparage me by saying that I’m “race baiting” with no evidence of such. Why are we not debating the viability of the test or if the multiple choice exam could truly measure someone’s leadership skills? Why do you ignore the information in Ginsburg’s dissent that state that some of the black workers had difficulty getting the study materials in an efficient and timely manor
http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.1&thid=1 222cd6234e3ba83&mt=application%2Fpdf- (Ginsburg’s dissent starts on page 55).

Finally, why do you assume that because mostly white fighters did well, that the test must have been fair and viable? Also, I never once said I expect less of blacks-those are your interpretations of what I have said.

Scottk/Polly
You both ignored the central point of my post, and instead have chosen to disparage me by saying that I’m “race baiting” with no evidence of such. Why are we not debating the viability of the test or if the multiple choice exam could truly measure someone’s leadership skills? Why do you ignore the information in Ginsburg’s dissent that state that some of the black workers had difficulty getting the study materials in an efficient and timely manor
http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.1&thid=1 222cd6234e3ba83&mt=application%2Fpdf- (Ginsburg’s dissent starts on page 55).

Finally, why do you assume that because mostly white fighters did well, that the test must have been fair and viable? Also, I never once said expect less of blacks-those are your interpretations of what I have said.

The dems only tool Racism
I think we all new that racism would be brought to the fore front with Obama's election and be used as a tool to divide America and embolden the thug mobs like ACORN, ACLU and the SEIU.
If the democrats didn't have racism to hang there hats on there would be no Democratic Party, That's the only tool in there bag.
The staging at all events where Obama Speaks is so outrageous, so blatant, so obvious

Example:
Obama speaks in front of fire departments, police department or our military, Might have 50 policemen, firefighter or military personal behind him, he makes sure that you see mostly blacks, WHY is this?????? I think we know
When you have Holder calling us cowards, When you have Obama saying that the civil right act in 1965 didn't go far enough, When you see these staged events, When Michelle Obama said this is the first time in her life that she is proud of her country, When Bill Clinton Said Obama is using the Race Card...... need not look any further.
Obama is a Racist (President), Eric Holder is a racist (justice dept.), Michelle Obama is a racist (Wife), Sonya Sotomayor is a racist (Judge), Valerie Jarrett is a racist (White house Senior Advisor), Janet Napolitano is a racist (Homeland Security) , Rahm Emanuel is a racist (White house chief of staff), Susan Rice is a racist (U.N Ambassador), Hilda Solis is a racist (Labor Dept), Lisa Jackson is a racist (EPA Admin) America is not in good hand!!!!!!

We have a President, a Wife, a justice dept, a senior advisor, the homeland security dept, the chief of staff, the EPA admin, the Labor dept, Acorn, The Aclu, The Seiu, and ADD That you have crazies nut cases like, Bernie Sanders, Barney Frank, Nancy Peloisy, Harry Reid, John Kerry, John Conyers, Chris Dodd, Pat Leahy as senators est......... and now Sonya Sotomayor for supreme court, SPOOKY, SPOOKY, SPOOKY what says you??????????

.

hail to the chief
Baron. I do not have to write anything. You have echoed my sentiments exactly. Black inexperienced President,racist wife,racist preacher,anti American friend and neighbor, Ayres, what the heck more does this need? Wake up America. This entire administration are full of traitors.

Anthony
No test is perfect. You said that something that reflected the respective leadership abilities of the applicants would be a better measure of who should be promoted.

How would that be done? That sounds like something that couldn't avoid being done very subjectively. And imagine how everyone would scream about that regardless of the results and racial profiles of those who were successful.

The entire department was informed of what the process would be, and told what books the material on which the test was based could be found. Many of the candidates took this to heart and worked hard to prepare themselves to bring about success.

It is absolutely hateful that any of you can try and support denying someone a promised promotion strictly because of the color of their skin. You have to twist yourself into pretzels to do this. If the successful candidates had been the right color, you would've had no complaints about whether the best leaders had been chosen.

An absolute travesty that the result is determined by skin color.

I think what blacks are saying when they justify the very racial discrimination they used to revile is that everything really is about power, not right and wrong. Be careful because if that is the standard, maybe we will force a return to the old ways when we decide we will no longer accept being discriminated against.

A Conistent Picture
Let's see: An Attorney General who refers to Americans as "racial cowards;" aggressive black to white income and asset transfer legislation; a black first lady who refers to the country as downright mean; Black Panthers protected by DOJ after blatant polling place armed intimidation; ACORN running wild in voting fraud across the country; nomination of a person for SCOTUS who proudly supports reverse discrimination against white males....

Welcome to Obama's post-racial America. In the course of less than six months, the man has set racial relations in America back 20 years. The next black president will be a hard core conservative, although it may take the country a decade to recover from this socialist/communist.

Anthony Thomas in PA....
In all the articles I have read regarding this: the test was not only multiple choice, but there was also an interview (question and answer period). The total scores were tallied between the two.
Now the multiple choice portion was considered fair because the format of the test was contracted out to a company who DESIGNED specifically tests that were non-biased.
Now I don't quite understand how a test can be considered biased when it comes to being a fireman. Since fires are non-subjective (flames could care less if you are black or white) then how can the information to put them out be subjective?
When I was in high school I dated someone studying to be a fireman. Many of our dates consisted of helping him study for the test they take to be accepted into the academy. Extra money went towards those study materials, he didn't get them for free. Do you think the firefighters who placed highest on that exam sacrificed some of their "fun time" to be certain to do well? (Wasn't Ricci dyslexic) I know he spent extra money to get the reading material put onto a tape.
You only get out what you put in....

Barone is a slime
I must be feeling a mite touchy this morning, since as most of you know I rarely call people names; but I could only stomach Barone's first paragraph this morning before I ran to the toilet and projected my breakfast into the bowl.

Barone calls people activists and elitists and what else I can't remember, thereby demonizing hard working, family oriented, personal responsibility taking, loyal, patriotic American human beings because he doesn't like their point of view.

You're a slime, Barone.

Liberal Putrifaction
The rot has only begun; it will get much worse! Good one America!

Testing
Some comments have been made, especially by Justice Ginsberg, that written exams to be a firefighter should not be necessary. However, firefighters do have to attend classes, and should be tested regarding what they have learned. In the Supreme Court's decision, the issue was not who could be a fireman, but who should hold high level administrative positions. These positions involve a lot of writing, and require a substantial amount of knowledge regarding numerous subjects involved in the proper way to run a public agency. The functionally illiterate should not be in high positions of policy making and command. Those who failed the exam should have studied harder.

The time has come
I truly believed that I would never see the day America would elect a black president but it has happened. I was surised but not upset about it. I just wish it would have been an American black president and not a communist in disguise lol. This is proof that the walls of racial discrimination are gone in america( at least the ones that held blacks back from accomplishment). The time has come for blacks to stand on their own scholastic merit for they attend the same schools that the middle class whites do. The reverse discrimination practices inacted need to go away. Some may not like me calling people of color black but afro american is a tag that I refuse to use.

Anthony Thomas.....Sigh
Are you missing the point, or are you blinded by the liberal haze that surrounds you?

You are the one who needs to do some reading. 1 - The reason the viability of the test was left out of the debate is because even the city agrees that there is no doubt every caution was taken to ensure the test was fair.
2 - The test was not thrown out.......the results were.
3 - The reason the city gives is that accepting the results might open them up for suit because minorities might "appear" to have been disparaged....a case possibly made, but the argument wasn't even necessary.....because the premise itself was sufficient for the liberal court.
4 - Don't you find it amazing that the firefighters who started studying 6 months in advance had no trouble "accessing the study materials", only those who waited until just weeks before the test.
5 - The true soul of Ginsburg is revealed in her statement that there is no claim or damage to those who were not promoted, because nobody else was promoted instead. Since somebody else did not benefit from your loss, your loss is not legitimate loss......mind-boggling.

AFRICAN AMERICAN SPEAK OF RIGHTS
THE PROBLEM WITH THOSE OPPOSING RICCI DECISION IS THIS CONFIRM THAT LIBERAL EDUCATION IS FLAWED. THE CRA 1964 IS SUPPOSE TO HAVE EVEN THE PLAYING FIELD, YET IT IS LIBERALS DENIAL OF VOUCHERS TO SCHOOLS THAT PROVIDE A QUALITY EDUCATIOAND REMOVE THE BURDEN OF OVER CROWDED CLASSROOMS FOR PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS ENABLING THEM TO DEVOTE TIME TO INDIVIDUAL STUDENTS.
AS A RESULT OF THE SUBPAR EDUCATION OF THE LIBERAL UNION PROVIDERS THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY IS BEING HURT BY THE FAILURE OF UNION LEADERSHIP TO PROVIDE A QUALITY EDUCATION IN NEW HAVEN CONN. AND EVERY OTHER COMMUINITY IN AMERICA. THE OPPORTUNITY TO RECEIVE A PRIVATE SCHOOL EDUCATION SHOULD NOT BE LIMITED TO MEMBERS OF CIVIL SERVANT UNIONS, SCHOOL TEACHERS, OR ELECTED OFFICIALS. REQUIRING CHILDERN OF TEACHERS TO ATTEND THE SCHOOL DISTRICT INWHICH THE PARENT IS EMPLOYEED WOULD OPEN EYES TO UNION OFFICIALS.

Proud liberal ?????????
Do yourself a favor and go back to your toilet and flush your thought's, your attitude, and most of all yourself down the sewer where you came from.
You are an embarrassment to your Party, did someone steal your lunch money? did you get beat up on the play ground?, was it hard for you to get a date?, I just can't figure you out? I think even Sonya Sotomayor empathy would have a problem with your ignorance

Anthony Thomas
"Why are we not debating the viability of the test or if the multiple choice exam could truly measure someone’s leadership skills?" The union and the city agreed on the format of the test. It was agreed upon by all the parties without evident coercion. "Why do you ignore the information in Ginsburg’s dissent that state that some of the black workers had difficulty getting the study materials in an efficient and timely manor" That's manner, not manor. And do you propose that the black firefighters were simply refused the materials? Were they only distributed to white firefighters? Or did they show up at the last minute expecting that there would be stacks of them waiting? Or is there some other sensible reason unrelated to race? Also, it is illegal to overturn the results of a test after the union, the city, and all parties have agreed to make this the main criterion for promotion.

Your argument sounds like that of a sharp lawyer with a guilty client-- lots of lightning and thunder, but no rain.

SCOTUS is biased
Everyone refers to four of the justices as "conservative." Now, conservatism is a well defined attitude and set of beliefs, and these are pre-existing for each conservative judge when they hear a case. Therefor each of the conservative judges is biased before and during their hearing of a particular case. The proof that the court is biased is that everyone refers to the fact that Roberts, Alito, Thomas and Scolia (?) are conservative.

I've seen opinions that those justices have the overt intention of moving the law in the United States to the Right. This certainly implies that they intend to use their pre-existing bias to judge cases according to that bias.

Moving the law to the right can involve changing access to the court system. The conservatives want to increase the difficulty for some people to get to court. It also includes changing the burden of proof, wherein the defendant no longer has to prove he didn't discriminate, while the plaintiff will no have to prove that the defendant did discriminate.

BIASED, ACTIVIST JUDGES on the supreme court.

tgambogi #31
We need more nails
For Obama's coffin. Great job by Michael to alert us to the shennigans behind this case and how corrupt Sotomayor is and in turn how damaging Obama is to this economy and nation. It's one nail but we need more.

EVERYBODY, BUY ODUMBO A CARTON, OR EVEN A CASE, OF COFFIN NAILS (CIGARETTES).

Proud Liberal
So why is the decision wrong? The law requires that an agreed upon method decided by the Union and the city together to determine advancement not be overturned if the results don't please one of the parties. I hear a lot of noise about activism, but let's look at the decision itself. Why is this not a good decision?

Logic....and then the actual numbers
Your child is going under the knife for surgery. There are 10 Surgeons on staff who can perform the operation. Six of them passed the Board in the top 20%, but the other 4 were granted status in order to balance the staff to equal racial population percentages.

Regardless of their color, which group would you choose your surgeon from?

Not comparable to Fire Captain, or Fire Lieutenants? Surgeons' decisions affect one patient, one family at a time. A Fire Captain's decision can affect an entire apartment complex, business district, or community.

Finally, out of total number who took the Captain's exam and the Lieutenan's exam, there were 9 Blacks that passed the exams, but didn't score high enough to be considered for the limited number of positions available. There were 17 whites who passed high enough to be considered......but there were 41 Whites who passed....that means there are 24 Whites in the same boat as those 9 Blacks.....who passed who passed the exam, but not with numbers high enough to be considered for the limited number of positions.

So...9 out of 27 Blacks passed the test but didn't qualify - 30%

And ....24 out of 68 Whites passed the test but didn't qualify - 35%

I didn't hear anybody mentioning that this or any other action was being taken on their behalf.

SEAMY SIDE OF RACIAL POLITICS
"The Supreme Court was "moving the ball" on affirmative action in this week's decision favoring white firefighters in New Haven, Conn., but the court had not ruled out the use of racial preferences in the future." -- President Obama
Consider what Michael Richards, who played Kramer on TV's Seinfield, said at his court hearing for uttering racial slurs:
“ You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction. You call me 'White Boy' 'Cracker,' 'Honkey,' 'Whitey,' 'Caveman', and that's OK. But when I call you, Ni-ger, Towel head, Sand-ni-ger, Camel Jockey, you call me a racist.
You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you, so why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?
You have the United N-gro College Fund. You have Martin Luther King Day. You have Black History Month. You have Cesar Chavez Day.
You have the NAACP. You have B.E.T. (Black Entertainment Television). If we had W.E.T. (White Entertainment Television), we'd be racists. If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.
If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance' OUR lives, we'd be racists. We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce. We have a black caucus in congress for blacks only. Wonder who pays for that??
A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.
If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships you know we'd be racists. There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US ... When we announce our white pride, you call us racists.
You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.
I am proud! But you call me a racist. Why is it that only whites can be racists?”

Some of the Lib Arguments Here . . .
. . . are saying that the test was invalid because it gave racially disparate results. All nine justices rejected this argument, and Ginsberg specifically repudiated it in her dissent from the majority decision.

Firefighters...
Is anyone out there getting as fed up as I am with the constant inability of blacks to pass tests? I don't pretend to know the reasons for this, altho I have some ideas, but it is long past time that society stop, cease, desist, from catering to this lowest element and start, once again, looking for quality and skill no matter what the race involved.
It is never mentioned in this case, that the exam was not an "entrance" exam, but a promotional exam given to firefighters who had been on the force for a certain number of years. The exam tested experience and on-the-job knowledge. It is to be expected that experienced firefighters after several years on duty will have amassed a certain amount of professional knowledge, on which they can be tested for promotion to leadership positions. Why is it, that black firefighters, with the same number of years on the job, simply were not as knowledgeable of their profession as were some of the whites? Were they all doing the all-too-common "black thing" on the job? Just going along drawing their paychecks while the others were studying and improving themselves? Remember, this test was vetted by blacks and hispanice themselves prior to the fact, which means they as good as had the answers beforehand yet they still couldn't make it. That tells me something!

Seamy side of racial politics...
implies there is a positive side? The ONLY positive side to "racial" politics would be the blindfold on Lady Justice. The Sotomayor's of the world are racists pure and simple.

If you do not want to study and you cannot pass a test then its tough kaka, try again like Mr. Ricci did. If you quit school and cannot or will not get your GED, then tough kaka. You made your choice (gee, no longer "prochoice"??) and have made your own bed.

Remember, there is no right to a job, nor a right to a promotion.

Donald
It's an interesting problem, isn't it? About fifteen years ago, I was being harangued by a coworker about how Blacks were being left behind because they couldn't afford computers. I had been in her home and knew they had a $1200 TV and an $2000 stereo system, neither of which I own or desire. They also owned a $30,000 car. I owned a nine year old Jeep Cherokee. They had no computer. They couldn't afford it. I mentioned that I had a $200 computer and a $400 stereo system on less income than she did, and owned a computer. I suggested that it was a matter of what you choose to do with your money. She went ballistic and accused me of racism. It was a very amusing and entertaining afternoon.

NBA anyone?
Question: What if we were to apply the liberal racist quotas to the NBA? (NFL, MLB)

Answer: approximately 85% white players?
____________________________________________
Would it perhaps take this stupid rule to finally dissuade liberals from their idiotic "logic?"

A quick lesson for Reba p1
“You have Black History Month...A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships you know we'd be racists. There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US”

A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships you know we'd be racists. There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US”

Reba the organizations that you mention were created as a result of the exclusion of minorities from mainstream American society. For example, because of segregation, blacks were not allowed to attend predominantly white universities, therefore blacks had to create and attend all black universities for their education as a result of this exclusion- these colleges became known as HBCUs. The first white college to allow blacks to attend was Oberlin College in 1834 even though blacks had been in the US for 200 years prior to this date. Many other predominantly white colleges were slow to follow Oberlin’s example so for several years blacks had very little choice but to attend HBCU’s.

Black history month was created by Carter G Woodson because of the lack of history taught about African Americans in public schools. From the founding of America, our education system has taught about George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and the rest of the “founding fathers” brothers, mothers and sisters or whatever. Therefore a concerted effort was needed for blacks to learn about the teachings and bravery of people like Harriet Tubman, Frederick Douglass, Booker T Washington, Nat Turner, W.E.B Du bois and so forth- once again it was because of exclusion that a race specific agenda was created for blacks.



A quick lesson for Reba p2
You talk about the race specific Miss Black American Pageant –well how many Black American women have actually participated or won the Miss American Pageant in its entire existence? Also, The Miss American Pageant tends to judge women based on Eurocentric standards of beauty which is why all of the women who compete (or win) have either long or straight hair, are extremely thin, and are white or have light complexions-these features are culturally antithetical to black women. The Miss Black America pageant was created as a result of the lack of Black American women who could even compete in the Ms. American Pageant as a result of its standards of beauty. I’ll stop here, because at this point I hope you’re smart enough to get the pattern here.

Robert
Robert hypocrisy has very short sight does it not?

Sotomayor Helped Push Minority Cases

WASHINGTON -- Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor helped lead an advocacy group that pushed legal theories about employment and race much like the one scotched by the Supreme Court Monday, according to documents released Wednesday as part of her confirmation process.

Judge Sotomayor's Supreme Court confirmation hearings start July 13, but should it be?

The Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund filed several lawsuits on behalf of minority employees alleging that promotional examinations were racially biased, obtaining judgments or settlements that guaranteed their promotion, sometimes ahead of white employees with higher scores.

In one case against the New York City Police Department, "we obtained quota promotions for Latinos and African Americans to the rank of sergeant," the group said in a May 1992 report.

According to Bloomberg News and:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124650158992083957.html

One more thing Reba
Also, one more thing Reba. The reason why “white” this or “white” that organizations are perceived negatively in the consciousness of Americans is because of the works of groups like the “KKK”, “Neo Nazis” “Dixiecrats” and “Citizens for America”. Maybe if a “white” this or that organization could exist without actually murdering or advocating the murder of people of color, Americans would think of them differently. Think about it- has anyone from the NAACCP ever committed violence against any specific race or group or advocated violence against any specific race or group. I don’t think so. Goodbye.



Anne,
Hold on now. If you can't claim discrimination by race how can you claim to be a victim?

SUPREME COURT NOMINEE & OBAMA
THE NOMINATION OF THIS WOMAN TO THE SUPREME COURT IS IN KEEPING WITH OBAMA'S TOTALLY RACIALLY MOTIVATED PROGRAMS. HE WOULD NOT NOW BE IN MY WHITE HOUSE BUT FOR PLAYING THE RACE CARD FROM DAY ONE. A STREET ORGANIZATOR,TURNED STATE LEGISLATOR FROM A HISTORICAL CROOKED DISTRICT OF THE COUNTRY AND ON TO THE WHITE HOUSE WITHOUT QUALIFICATION BUT VERY CLOSE ASSOCIATION WITH NUMEROUS RADICALS. HIS SPECIAlITY DURING THE CAMPAIGN WAS TO REMIND YOU THAT HE DID NOT LOOK LIKE THE FACES ON CURRENCIES AND COINS.

Anthony Thomas
"Think about it- has anyone from the NAACCP ever committed violence against any specific race or group or advocated violence against any specific race or group. I don’t think so. Goodbye."

How about the Black Panthers. You know, the group that blocked access to a poll in Philadelphia and harassed voters and poll workers. Goodbye to you.

Anthony Thomas.
Hmmm, I don't think I used the term "race-baiting" in my post. Somehow, though, YOU inferred it.

My main point was that it does NO ONE any good to expect less from any group of people and that it is in fact actually insulting to claim that a group is incapable of doing any better than they do. Perhaps Justice Ginsberg genuinely believes that life's too darned hard for African Americans, and that you can't expect them to exert any effort to surpass the performance of the persons of pallor with whom they compete. What kind of person thinks like that??

It seems very, very odd to me that the only place true merit may be considered is in professional sports--which, in the whole scheme of things, matters very little to the average person (hint: it's just a game). Now brain surgery, mechanical maintenance, and firefighting, THOSE really matter and THERE you want the best possible person to do the job. And THERE you'd better lower your standards for those who might have difficulty getting the materials to learn the job, er, I mean to learn the facts required to pass a silly ol' test that surely in no way indicates any ability to perform the tasks necessary to successfully do the job.

Anthony Thomas
Don't be so quick to run off. Have you forgotten the New Black Panthers threatening people at the polls?

You want to make it a race on race argument. The way I see it from watching the news and reading the paper, blacks are killing each other off every day with drive-by shootings and shootings outside of clubs. You don't want to talk about that, do you? You don't allow me to talk about it because you will call me a racist.

In the last ten years, how many blacks were killed by a white supremecist?

In the last ten years, how many blacks were killed by other blacks?

spurs/russ
"How about the Black Panthers. You know, the group that blocked access to a poll in Philadelphia and harassed voters and poll workers. Goodbye to you."

“Have you forgotten the New Black Panthers threatening people at the polls?”

Well first those aren't the real Black Panthers. They call themselves the “New Black Panther Party” or something like that and they have no relation to the original group which produced the likes of Fred Hampton and Stokley Carmichael. They’re crackpot and nutty I’ll give you that. But from my understanding they have never murdered anyone in their brief existence.

“The way I see it from watching the news and reading the paper, blacks are killing each other off every day with drive-by shootings and shootings outside of clubs. You don't want to talk about that, do you? You don't allow me to talk about it because you will call me a racist.”

I would never call you a racist for saying those things because you are correct. Ignorance and cultural depravity has to be fought from both sides and I would be lying if I said African Americans didn’t have a handful of people who perpetuate those things.

Anthony Thomas
Point taken.

Just for the sake of debate, what do you think of the CBC excluding Steve Cohen (D-Memphis) and Joseph Cao (R-New Orleans)? Although neither of these two are African American, they both represent districts whose largest constituency is.

questions for Thomas
1. Do you think the likes of Tom Sowell, Walter Williams, Colin Powell,
condi Rice or Frederick Douglas would have failed that test. In my opinion, they would aced it. Can't prove it of course. But it is reasonable
guess.

2. In oral argument, Scalia asked the govt lawyer who took the side of New Haven, if the situation was reversed, i.e., only blacks passed that a court would throw out the results based on the Title 7. The govt lawyer stated without hesitation "yes". No one in his right mind aware of politics would accept this as truth. IT was a bald face lie. IF the situation were reversed and the blacks only passed and results thrown out, there would be riots in the street led by the likes of Sharpton et al. You know that and I know that from past history.

You have to be oblivious to your surrondings not to realize that the only reason the the whites were denied promotion because was of their skin color because the opposite would never occur. I can't prove it, but anyone familiar with "race" problems would agree if they were honest.

ANTHONY THOMAS
I understand your point well and know there was a need to present exclusively black organizations, history and pride to the black population after the civil rights movement of the 1960's. As a young white woman I participated in several civil rights rallies because I do not believe in segregation or racism against anyone. I've had black friends refer to me and other white friends as "you people". Today segregation is a choice.

Isn't it time to move on after over 40 years.
We are all Americans are we not? Why do we still distinguish as Hispanic Americans, African Americans in name and organizations?. Most cultures in this country do not. I've have always admired the Vietmanese who came here after 1975 and assimilated within our culture quickly through education and hard work. They are not called Vietnamese Americans now? They are Americans
I've guess I could identify myself as an Irish American and my husband as a Swedish American. But what's the purpose? These terms and exclusive black clubs, colleges, caucus and organizations is segregation within itself.

Robert
You ask why is the decision wrong? I see the problem is that we have a bunch of people trying to call balls and strikes from the bleachers and disparaging the umpire(s) who call a ball when the bleachers think it was a strike.

Look, I know that I can't call balls and strikes with any accuracy from the bleachers. So in the Ricci case I read what people have had to say about it, but I don't make an in depth study of the case to determine whether or not I agree with the judges decisions. For me, not being a lawyer, etc. places me in the bleachers as far as rendering a decision in the Ricci case.

So, what I do notice is that the first judge found for the city. I don't have a clue why and it's not relevant. He's the umpire. I'm not. But from that fact a reasonable person will conclude that, at the least, there are good arguments to find for the city. But I can't judge them since I belong in the bleachers.

Then I notice that Sotomayor's panel found reasons not to overturn the judge and the full 13 member panel found reasons for not hearing the case with the full panel.

So, you tell me. What is a reasonable person to think?

Remember
what Abe Lincoln said: "You cannot strenghten the weak by weakening the strong".

The results of the tests showed who was weak and who was strong and if try to change that, this whole Country will go to hell.

That's how ALL lifes spieces operate, and we MUST NOT even to try to change it.

Anthony, Russ, Leonard
At some point we have to say there is a level playing field. It was supposed to be leveled by desegregation. That is not a bear that can be put on the back of the South alone. I remember watching the news and the ugly scenes at schools in Boston, Ma. and Pontiac, Mich. after desegregation in the South. Blaming the South is a straw man that does not advance a solution one whit.

Desegregation has been around long enough to show some benefit if there is to be one. I don't see it. The drop-out rate of black students is high, still, as are teen pregnancy rates, STD rates, and commission of violent crimes.

One of you tell me what it takes to have a level playing field. Tell me what it takes to have preachers of victimization like Jackson and Sharpton, two shake-down artists, no longer given the power to profit off the backs of their race. Tell me what it takes to get to self-responsibility and not relying on the race/victim card over everything that comes up.

Proud Liberal
From what I have read and heard, the trial court and appellate court decided on the basis of preventing the city from being sued. I saw the city attorney on the news. He is a black guy who said the city could be sued successfully by blacks who weren't promoted.

Want to END racial politics?
It is as easy as 1 ... 2 ... 3!

1) Make Obama show his long form Birth Certificate.

2) Make Obama show ALL of college application and transcript records.

3) Make Obama show ALL of his passport records including the passport that he used to travel to Pakistan when it was illegal for Americans to do so.

When DUMB-BOMBA the fake POTUS and mass murderer of innocent children both in and out of the womb refuses to do so ...

Then kick him out of office.

No Obama ... No racial politics.

Easy as 1 ... 2 ... 3!

Where's the Birth certificate?

For more information visit here:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId= 99035

USPatriot56




Anyone else
Had their fill of hearing about black skin?

I am sick of it

ANOTHER WAY TO END RACIAL DISCOURSE
If and when the African American leaders such as Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Eric Holder and Barack Obama stand up proud and show the black youth the examples of the successful black doctors, scientist, generals, Secretary of State, astronauts, congressmen, senators, businessmen and woman's accomplishments and achievements of their goals in America. They won't accomplish it by their attachments to vulgar rap music.

Impress on the black youths that the opportunities are there for them also, but not through drugs, teenage pregancies, no father in the homes, and affirmative action programs. These actions have negative affects on all cultures. It is time to stop telling this generation of the black culture that they are victims. Teach them that a good education and hard work is what we all teach our children to achieve their desires, not gang banging and selling drugs on street corners. Teach them to be proud to be an American, not 'God damm America', and the opportunities they have for the pursuit of their happiness, no guarantees, just opportunities. Teach them that not all white people are their enemies and teach them again the faith I know exists in several generations of black families.

OldeCoastie
OldeCoastie Location: FL
Reply # 39
Date: Jul 2, 2009 - 10:48 AM EST
Dear Anthony Thomas
Sigh... I see we have the typical black reverse racism in fine fettle. What's missing from the discussion of this issue is that if a significant number of minority firefighters had passed the exam (far-fetched, I know), then the test would've been a satisfactory barometer for promotion. Only in the wake of their failure was the exam deemed "an inaccurate indicator" of advancement.

I find it fascinating that in professional sports, the bottom line is winning and as a result, profitability. Despite the fact that the NBA does not accurately reflect the nation's demographics, the owners and fans want the best players in the lineup regardless of race. How ironic that in a life and death vocation like fire fighting (or doctoring, or airline piloting), that employing the better prepared, most talented candidates must submit to some perceived quota system because setting standards for professionalism is racist. Sorry Tony, if my house is on fire, if I need brain surgery, if I'm on a airliner with a failed engine landing at night in a storm, I want the best... regardless of gender or skin color. The onus is on the individual to strive to attain that goal; not whine about the inconsistencies of fate.

===============================================

Right on sir.

Talent Scout
Sorry, Talent. As Eric Holder told us, if you don't want to have a dialogue on race, then you're a coward. You can see by the black responses here that the blacks are reasonable people who only want to compromise with whites so as to achieve...doesn't matter what. Dialogue is the important thing.

Anyway, it's not your choice. You're a coward or you will listen to blacks tell you why you're a racist and why they are victims until you fall to your knees and beg forgiveness.

Poor, bewildered Rodney King with his plaintive question, "Can't we all just get along?" Ah well, Rodney, maybe later.

Spurs
From what I understand from my reading the judges would never say I'm deciding this case based on the argument of saving the city from being sued. What they might say is that I'm deciding this case based on the argument of saving the city from being sued because that argument supports a decision made in another case (which could have been decided a long time in the past). The argument then would resonate with established, already decided cases from the past. I'm just learning this, but that is my current understanding of stare decis. But, we should note that it is that previously decided case or cases that the supreme court was looking at, not the decisions of the first judge and Sotomayor's panel, since they made their decision based on that past law.Now, I think what people are saying is that the first judge and the panel drew the wrong conclusions from the settled cases. But, remember, four other supreme court judges apparently thought that the right conclusions were drawn. It seems to be a matter of individual perceptions.

To Be Read Daily - I

Written By Regina Brett, 90 years old, of The Plain Dealer, Cleveland , Ohio

1. Life isn't fair, but it's still good.

2. When in doubt, just take the next small step.

3. Life is too short to waste time hating anyone...

4. Your job won't take care of you when you are sick. Your friends and parents will. Stay in touch.

5. Pay off your credit cards every month.

6. You don't have to win every argument. Agree to disagree.

7. Cry with someone. It's more healing than crying alone.

8. It's OK to get angry with God. He can take it.

9. Save for retirement starting with your first paycheck.

10. When it comes to chocolate, resistance is futile.

11. Make peace with your past so it won't screw up the present.

12. It's OK to let your children see you cry.

13. Don't compare your life to others. You have no idea what their journey is all about.

14. If a relationship has to be a secret,you shouldn't be in it.

15. Everything can change in the blink of an eye. But don't worry; God never blinks.

16. Take a deep breath. It calms the mind.

17. Get rid of anything that isn't useful, beautiful or joyful.

18. Whatever doesn't kill you really does make you stronger.

19. It's never too late to have a happy childhood. But the second one is up to you and no one else.

20. When it comes to going after what you love in life, don't take no for an answer.

21. Burn the candles, use the nice sheets, wear the fancy lingerie. Don't save it for a special occasion. Today is special.

22. Over prepare, then go with the flow unless it is despicable.

23. Be eccentric now. Don't wait for old age to wear purple.

24. The most important sex organ is the brain.

25. No one is in charge of your happiness but you.

26. Frame every so-called disaster with these words: 'In five years, will this matter?'

27. Always choose life.

To Be Read Daily - II
To Be Read Daily - II
28. Forgive everyone everything.

29. What other people think of you is none of your business.

30. Time heals almost everything. Give time time.

31. However good or bad a situation is, it will change.

32. Don't take yourself so seriously. No one else does.

33. Believe in miracles.

34. God loves you because of who God is, not because of anything you did or didn't do.

35. Don't audit life. Show up and make the most of it now.

36. Growing old beats the alternative -- dying young.

37. Your children get only one childhood.

38. All that truly matters in the end is that you loved.

39. Get outside every day. Miracles are waiting everywhere.

40. If we all threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone else's,we'd grab ours back.

41. Envy is a waste of time. You already have all you need.

42. The best is yet to come. (We can only hope so in Amerika).

43. No matter how you feel, get up, dress up and show up.

44. Yield except where unconstitutional.

45. Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift."

And, take Bork over Sotomayor ... ANYDAY!

Had to smile Polly
I have been hearing about black skin all my life.

I was part of the US Military assigned to crowd control when MLK was marching.

The voices whining about black skin have never stopped.

Its has become like living with a nagging cry baby, and its time for a divorce.

Waaaaaaaaa, waaaaaaaaaa, I am black, waaaaaaaa, waaaaaaaaaa, the world is so cruel.

Meanwhile everyone knows blacks do better in America than any nation on earth, just like we all do.

Lets all get back to the idea there is only one minority in America.

THE INDIVIDUAL

Despicable Or Dispicable

DISPICABLE or DESPICABLE? It depends upon which dictionary that you use.

Poor is the man
Who only notices what he has not got, and unthankful for what he does have

Glad to see it
I worked in human resources for many years during the 80's and 90's. Let me tell you it is a tragic situation when a very qualified candidate for a job is really not a candidate at all because of affirmative action goals. These goals are more than goals, they are quotas. Why you ask? Because managers bonuses and salaries are often tied to achieving the goals and if HR is working to achieve numbers for their EEO1 so they can feel good or be awarded some idiotic governmental we are team player award. Then, the manager that does go for the best qualified applicant, and if that applicant happens to be white, will have some explaining to do. This is incredibly unfair and the real sad part, the part that no one talks about is the, generally white male, who because he is white is not given a chance to compete for a better job, promotion etc. This is a person who is not being allowed, even though he worked hard to be best qualified, to provide the best he can for himself or his family. Affirmative action is the single biggest travesty of justice today. It is sad with all the unemployment out here that white males will still see a large number of open positions at various companys that indicate that are affirmative action employers. What these white applicants might not know is that they are at the bottom of the list and lesser qualified candidates that meet governmental reporting goals get first take. It is also sad to see job search engines like Monster that have a listing for diversity jobs. What are they trying to tell white applicants.......

If the law
Is used for vengeance against sins of the past on innocent people, the law is perverted and no longer a tool for justice.

Such laws work wrath, not solutions.

We must stop all judgment of law that even mentions skin tone.

Any law that does is RACIST

talent scout
Many years ago, my husband was a member of a group of successful white men who were trying to "dialogue" with a group of (relatively and/or really) successful black men. He ended up depressed and disheartened; they didn't want to dialogue, they wanted to monologue. And not in a pleasant manner.

I wonder if it would be any different now. I know my husband won't be trying to find out.

I suspect Obama isn't black enough to prove discrimination is over, not to today's black victim class.

Your husband, Polly
Is a person who has been subjected to being accused for the fault of others.

When we all back off from the arguments, they are made from a spirit of revenge or envy.

There are enough sins today without going back in history to keep a grievance going.

The hatred from blacks at white skin is so bad in some parts of our cities, no white person dares go into those areas, not so for the reverse.

The racists are mostly found among blacks today, and are getting excused from public conversation.

Holder is the real coward as he will not even talk about black racists.

Blacks are going to have to learn to forgive the past and live in this day.

To work up anger about the past is going to hurt those who promote it worse than it will ever hurt who they are angry at.

Just a look at young black men killing one another is where it takes them.

Its in every single major American city, murdering one another from the hate they nurse for...whatever

...

'Anyway, it's not your choice. You're a coward or you will listen to blacks tell you why you're a racist and why they are victims until you fall to your knees and beg forgiveness.'

No Polly,

It seems to be you who has everything figured out and wants absolutely no dialogue. So lemme guess what you have figured out. Since blacks have equal opportunity in this country, yet they consistently 'underacheive', 'kill each other for fun', create 'sexist and immoral rap music', etc...then you are left with no choice but to conclude there is something wrong with 'them'. Furthermore, it is the Democrats who indoctrinate these blacks to believe that there is something wrong with them (through welfare/food stamps, you know the free rich life...even though MANY white people receive this welfare and I assume you believe it has not led to the same 'victimhood problems' for them). Not you. Not the past racism. Not the past lack of opportunity/advancement. No, that did nothing to indoctrinate blacks. LOL. Am I close?

PS, what are you doing to reverse the indoctrination besides preaching AT black people. Volunterring? Teaching? If you are then God Bless.


kenley
Polly did not mean this like you took it, she was being facetious.


"You're a coward or you will listen to blacks tell you why you're a racist..."

Just repeating the accusation we hear today from the race baiters

talent scout
point taken...people throw words around too loosely, I am sensitive to the anger it certainly causes being accused of being something you are not. And to add to that it certainly will never cause anyone who does have some prejudice in their heart (we all do to some degree) to respond with anything but defensiveness. In short, calling names is always a non-starter, labling people is always a nonstarter (in terms of a give and take conversation).

Polly
I think the problem your husband encountered is simply the nature of this beast. By that I mean that blacks in America being oppressed for so long was the reality. Its like the bully having a sitdown with the bullied. Its almost natural that the bullied will have more to say...more anger, more resentment, etc. Unfortunately (and we agree on this) the real victimhood that could have dissapated actually fed on itself in future generations. However, what we probably disagree on is why this is. I believe that the victimhood psychology, and problems steming from it, surfacing in the last generation is natural. I mean 350-400 years of literally being an 'inferior race' doesnt go away in 50. I believe it will change after a generation or two realizes that playing the victim is a trap. But again, without excusing the behavior, I believe this is a natural progression. Then again, maybe i'm too optimistic, but hey..what good has a pessimist ever done besides manage risk? (bad joke)

Discrimination Against Who?
You can't get a job if you don't speak a minimum of 2 languages anymore even if you qualify for the job in America as a U.S. citizen. You can pass the test but be passed over because the government has been giving extra points to foreigners since the 60s, but now there's a Black President, so what's the point and he didn't even have to produce a U.S. Birth Certificate to qualify! And, DMV and all the rest of the U.S. corporations have so many foreign languages on their advertisements that it's hard to believe you're still in America. And to top it off, the cable companies have about 50% of their stations in foreign languages that you have to pay for or get no TV even if you don't want those stations; don't understand them; don't like them; but are forced to pay for services you don't want - like having an imaginary gun to your head - like it or not - not to mention Obama's push for amnesty - thousands of Palestinian refugees connected to Hamas welcomed to come on in - and open borders - an so forth....I hardly recognize this country any longer - what happened to assimilation? Sorry, I couldn't write this in several different languages.

kenley
I disagree with you somewhat. I don't think it is natural that this "retained victim-hood" has lasted so long. Blacks who have come to this country more recently have tended to do better and appreciate America more than those who were born and raised here.

Yet many who WERE born and raised here have done very well, and not just sports figures and entertainers.

Someone--and, yes, I mean Jesse & Al & the New Democrat Party--has worked hard to keep these natural-born Americans in their place: victims. It's not the Republicans, who have tried to rehabilitate & educate blacks, especially by improving their educational opportunities. Unions (now a major Democrat constituency) refuse to allow rotten teachers to be fired; liberals cause problems for any school that tries to instill discipline in the classrooms; and unions & Democrats work hard to keep poor children from receiving vouchers for private-school education alternatives.

Now that the Democrats own the federal government, it will obviously be a long, cold road for those who want better for blacks--if not for the good of blacks themselves then for the good of the country.

Polly
My point in saying that it is natural is not to say that it necessarily had to happen, but instead was the most likely course. Psychologically speaking, the fact that American born blacks have had more problems then say Nigerian born Americans lead me to believe the problems are a function people's image of themselves in a society. I think you agree, but you say the root of it is Democratic coddling, Democratic unions...ok, but white people are also beneficiaries of welfare state and yet this does not lead to the same victimhood? I don't understand that logic. Again, the victimhood, IMO, is the most natural (ok, maybe thats a bad word, how about unsurprising?) product of a long history of being the actual victim. Also, no black person I know believes that Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton speaks for them. I'm open to vouchers. The teachers union does need to make changes. I just think we should make those changes, not kill public education.

new litmus test required
Governor Mario Cuomo created the Task Force on Minority Representation on the Bench (aka the “Task Force on Judicial Diversity) which operated from 1991 to 1992 and found clear evidence of an extreme lack of diversity in the state’s judiciary, and further found there was no shortage of well-qualified minority and women candidates to explain the lack of diversity.

As a result of this report NY State immediately adopted a pro-active race consciousness in appointing non-whites to the bench. Since NY Federal District appointments require submission by both NY State US Senators, one of which is always a Democrat, the efforts also immediately extended into the Federal district appointments. (One example of this race biased effort was Magistrate Marilyn Dolan Go who after being on the task force in 1991 to 1992, was appointed as Federal Magistrate in the Eastern District of NY in 1993). Later, this race bias was elevated to the US Federal Second Circuit. According to the 2nd Circuit Operation Support, the Equal Opportunity Resolution Plan for the US Court of Appeals for the second Circuit effective Jan. 1, 1999, replaced the court’s 1980 Affirmative action plan. The Second Circuit keeps detailed accounts of the race of ALL the Appellate Court Judges, District Court Judges, Magistrates, staff and support personnel.

Judge Sotomayor hails from the Federal Second Circuit. Her mind set of denying whites their day in court is no aberration. While black and Hispanic plaintiffs routinely obtain attorneys for their federal discrimination claims in New York on a contingency basis, white plaintiffs cannot find any attorney to take their cases “with a ten foot pole”. Why?

Pt.2 New litmus test
For those of you with access, take a look at the docket sheets in the US District Court, Eastern District of NY, 2000 CV 5320 and 2003 CV 3836. You will find it takes years for a white discrimination litigant to obtain the same discovery routinely turned over in other cases, that a white litigant is denied discovery on a complaint while the defendant City of New York is granted discovery in the same complaint, and that black District Court Judge Sterling Johnson stayed an action for years despite having no legitimate basis for doing so. See Zemsky v. City of New York Board of Education, 821 F2d 148 (2nd Cir. 1987) which prohibits such stays.

Appointment of Sotomayor or anyone of her mindset means doom for future generations of whites seeking equality of opportunity. If there was ever a need for a litmus test for racialists, Sotomayer has provided the reason.

The Most IMPORTANT Factor!!
I find it amazing that not a single person responding to Mr Barone's essay (Pro or Con)made reference to what I consider PARAMOUNT in taking any kind of *Test* excluding, possibly, PURE MATH, The Ability to READ!!
I'm certainly not a Test Psychologist but I did have the privilege of Supervising MANY young Men AND a few Women who were required to actually take Written tests to Verify their PROFICIENCY in their particular Speciality!! These tests were VERY IMPORTANT to their Futures, but I found than far too MANY, PURE AND SIMPLE COULD NOT READ!!Is that fact, standing alone, RACIST?? It means, to me anyway, that Mom, Dad, Elementary School Teachers didn't teach Johnny or Jamel to read!!
WHAT COLOR IS THAT?? Just a Thought..CHEERS

Roy, Reply #1, 11:02 PM
I think that you are absolutely on target when you point out the effect of an inability to read on test taking. In 1974 in Phila. I discovered that the Board of Education was presenting High School diplomas to illiterate students.

I had trouble believing that this was happening and my inquiry to the Board was met with hostility. I found out that an abomination that they referered to as "social promotion" had been in effect since 1969 when Title 1 funding became available to schools.

The money was to enable schools to hire additional teachers, computers or other teaching aids for students who had difficulty learning to read. In retrospect that probably had to do with so called educators experimenting with "look, say" as opposed to phonetics in teaching reading.

All of the garbage about the damage to the self esteem of kids who had not mastered reading if they were held back a term has proven to be liberal, destructive notion that has resulted in large numbers of illiterate Americans.

Don't forget that leftists have controlled education for decades, so many parents are themselves illiterate. I wonder how the lefties think that deficiency effects their self esteem. That issue alone has resulted in my total contempt for the left, especially those in education.


Skip-MT
Thx for Ur reply to my "The Most Important Factor" I KNOW for a fact that those who have extreme diffculty reading are HANDICAPPED for LIFE and it does not matter what COLOR U are.
On a very personal note: My wife, herself a *Minority*, has about the equivalent of a 4th grade Education..Since we married (40 years ago) she has progressed to virtually mastering the NY Times XWord (before I cancelled that absurd rag) some time ago..Point is, as I'm sure U well know, a person MUST use EVERY asset at their disposal (in her case Volunteers at the YWCA, local volunteers who came at night after teaching all day, etc. etc) Most of said Tutors worked pro bono and seemed delighted to do it and very proud of their *Older * Student..Just last night I listened to a very POSIONOUS Narrative (Subdued Tirade, actually) by one Mr Stokley Carmichael, the LP entitled "Free Huey".. I have no idea as to the date and really don't deem it pertinent..
BECAUSE one of the main points of his narrative was that "The Hunkey wants to replace our African Speaking with white Man Language and we can't allow that".. Slight Paraphrasing possible..I don't remember that well..As a humorous aside, I guess "Hunkey" came before *Honkey"..But the narrator was quite emphatic in that the mindset of the "African" must remain intact and he emphasized his punch line 2 or 3 times at the end of each.
Now I'm NOT saying ANY of the testing FFs exhibited that *Mindset*--I'm sure they did not for the most part; I also more than SUSPECT that same equation does motivate, if not dominate,some of us..Thx for listening to an old "Whitey" ramble..CHEERS

Preferences Hurt Achieving Minorities
Say you are having a difficult brain surgery and you could choose between two doctors to perform the operation, one white and one black (or Hispanic, or any other preferred minority). Both are Harvard med school grads.

Who would you choose to operate on you? The one who may, or may not, have been given special considerations he did not earn in school? Or the one who you are sure received no preferential treatment? Only an idiot would choose the former.

Why are the achievers in the minority community silent about this? Do they know something?

ST.DENIS LIKES IT WET!

and steamy

oh yeah

mamma like
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