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Monday, April 27, 2009
Michael Barone :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Left's Angry Mob Recalls Madame Defarge
by Michael Barone
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It's tough trying to please people who crave vengeance almost as much as Madame Defarge, the unsparing French revolutionary in Dickens' "Tale of Two Cities." That's what Barack Obama found out last week -- and will find out next week and for weeks to come unless he settles once and for all that he will follow the practice of all his predecessors and not prosecute decision-makers in the previous administration.

The Madame Defarges of the Democratic left want to see the guillotine flash down and heads roll. Specifically, they want to see the prosecution or impeachment of officials who approved enhanced interrogation techniques -- torture, in their view.

The president, it appears, is of two minds. On April 16, he released memorandums from the Bush administration Office of Legal Counsel approving the interrogation methods and said that CIA interrogators relying on them would not be prosecuted. Also released was the partial text of a letter from Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair characterizing those memos as "graphic and disturbing."

Obama was criticized for revealing intelligence information useful to our enemies. "Nobody should pretend," wrote Washington Post columnist David Ignatius, who approved of Obama's decision, "that the disclosures weren't costly to CIA morale and effectiveness."

On April 20, Obama journeyed to CIA headquarters and defended his decisions. But the Madame Defarges had their knitting needles out, hauling in petitions with 250,000 signatures and demanding blood. On April 21, Obama caved, saying that Bush administration officials who approved the methods could be prosecuted if the attorney general wanted to press the cases. He didn't give the Madame Defarges all they wanted, resisting Speaker Nancy Pelosi's call for a 9/11-type commission.

It is an article of faith among the Madame Defarges that the interrogation techniques they consider torture didn't produce useful information. All along Obama tried to pay homage to this dogma.

The text of Blair's letter released to the public carefully omitted his admission that "high value information came from interrogations in which the methods were used." Just normal editing, said his spokesman. Yeah, sure. Nor has Obama showed any sign of agreeing to Dick Cheney's demand that the full results of the interrogations should be released. That might embarrass the Madame Defarges.

Whence cometh the fury of these people? I think it arises less from revulsion at interrogation techniques -- who thinks that captured al-Qaida leaders should be treated politely and will then tell the full truth? -- than it does from a desire to see George W. Bush and Bush administration officials publicly humiliated and repudiated. Just as Madame Defarge relished watching the condemned walk from the tumbrel to the guillotine, our contemporary Defarges want to see the people they hate condemned and destroyed.

It doesn't seem to matter to our Madame Defarges that it's not clear that Bush officials violated any criminal law. One of the core principles of our law is that criminal statutes must be construed strictly against the government. If the government wants to deprive someone of his liberty for doing something, it should be very specific about what that something is. This distinguishes our system from authoritarian and totalitarian regimes that demand, like Alice's Red Queen, "verdict first, trial later."

It also doesn't occur to the Madame Defarges of our times that revolutions like hers tend to devour their own. Robespierre followed Marie Antoinette to the guillotine not so many months later. Today we see Pelosi trying to explain how she was present at confidential briefings where the enhanced interrogation methods were described and did nothing to stop them from being applied.

If there is going to be a "truth commission" -- a title that is redolent of Stalinist purges -- shouldn't she be one of the first to testify? As for Barack Obama, asked in a September 2007 if we should "beat out of" an al-Qaida higher-up details of an impending attack, he said "there are going to be all sorts of hypotheticals, an emergency situation, and I will make that judgment at that time." So "torture" just might be OK under the right circumstances.

In the meantime, Obama's appeasement of the Madame Defarges carries a political price. Pollster Scott Rasmussen reports that 58 percent of Americans believe his release of the CIA memos endangers national security. Show trials of Bush administration officials could raise that number. Appeasing the Madame Defarges may cost more than it is worth.

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About The Author
Michael Barone is a Fox News Channel contributor and co-author of The Almanac of American Politics. He is Senior Political Analyst for the Washington Examiner and a Resident Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, a Fox News Channel contributor and co-author of The Almanac of American Politics.
 
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swinging blade
... here I thought Barney was the swinging blade. I agree, Obama has been a disaster. Praising and embracing our enemies, bowing to foreign soverns and then releasing classified information. If Michelle putting her arm around the queen of England was not enough to let people in the country know that no one with any intelligence seems to be advising these people. All I see is that we are quickly devolving into a semi-communist state. Pretty soon we will make Russia look free and capitalistic in comparison...

Slackler Of Syndrome Fame
I'm delusional?

I suppose that NYC flyover didn't happen, eh?

Then explain how it is:

That GM is not now owned by the government (50%) and the UAW (39%), and

That Katrina never happened, and

That the DC sniper was a Christian and never killed anyone, and

That a DC Circuit judge did not rule against the O&G business in favor of Obama & environmentalists, and

That Ike never struck Texas, and

That George Washington was not the first President, and

That Barney Frank is straight, and

That Arlen Specter is not going to switch parties, and

That my City Hall is, locally, called "The Idiot Box", and

That Patty Hearst was from Stockholm, as in syndrome, and

That the economy is booming, and

That Nethanayu is actually the BFF of Ahmadinejad, and

That John McCain won the last election, and

That O&G producers in Texas don't call a well "ti-t's up" when it goes dry.

Darling, I care about you, but you need mental help.

First, define torture, then we'll talk
This move by Obama isn't surprising to me at all, considering all that he has on his plate. I mean, I would forget about my ideological base unless someone reminded me who helped get me elected. So much for the President governing from the center. Just remember not to criticize him for anything specific, like weakening national security, pandering to the fringe left, or flip-flopping on prosecuting Bush officials further dividing an already divided country. Oh wait, I just did, I must be a racist! Condemn me to hell!

Koolmuse:
"If on the other hand you live by principles of human law and justice...if you can truthfully say..."look at the Jihadists they saw people's heads off on video, we don't do things like that."...you are on the side of right."

But we don't saw people's heads off on video. Nor do we fly airplanes into buildings loaded with innocent men women and children. We don't slash the throats of airline pilots and flight attendents to hijack planes to fly them into buildings. We don't drive bomb laden cars into crowded markets to blow up anyone who happens to be there at the time. You are a lunatic if you believe any of the tactics we used, illegal or not, torture or not, put us on par with jihadists.

Koolmuse:
"If you torture the enemy they torture our guys."

Oops, you forgot:

"If you don't torture the enemy, they still torture our guys, because the enemies are bloodthirsty terrorists who care not a bit about murdering and blowing up innocent men, women and children."

There, I fixed it for you. Do you honestly believe that members of Al Qaeda are going to now say, "Allah damn it. Now that PBO has been elected and has stopped the Americans from torturing prisoners, we can't torture anyone either or we'll look like the bad guys."?

How silly can one's imagination become before we lock them up as being crazy?

Koolmuse, You Forgot Bill Ayers.
You didn't mention Bill Ayers, Bernadette Dorn and the Weather Underground. They killed for liberal political reasons. How about the black panthers? What about the Winter Soldiers. They planned to kill people for political reasons but were never able to carry out their plans. Still conspiracy to commit murder is almost as bad as the act itself.

Koolmuse:
"Its because the cop-killings in Oakland were not politically motivated. The guy was apolitical....as most murderers are.

What I am saying is that on your conservative side of the ledger you have McVeigh, Rudolph, abortion doctor shooters, Sirhan Sirhan, Koresch, Jim Jones...and a ton of lesser-known killers...who kill for political reasons.

Such is not the case with liberals"

How do you know the killer in Oakland was apolitical? Did you see his supporters protesting for him in the streets? They looked like ACORN members and PBO voters to me, at least from the TV clips I saw.

Tim McVeigh murdered for revenge. I suppose you could say that his revenge hinged on political reasons. Rudolph murdered because in his crazy head, he was doing the eye for an eye thing. He put doctors who peform abortions on the same level as murderers and he took it upon himself to impose justice, his justice, on them. I doubt whether he cared whether they were liberals or conservatives.

Regardless, who cares whether a murder is politically motivated, emotionally motivated, or criminally motivated. A cop is just as dead when shot by a deranged conservative as a cop who is shot by a deranged liberal, whether for political or criminal reasons. I don't understand the logic in why you hold conservative murders, done for political reasons in your opinion, to be worse liberal murders, done for criminal reasons.

The victim is dead. The criminal, if tried and convicted, should also end up dead in my opinion. That's what happened to Tim McVeigh. I'm fine with that. I don't recall too many liberals, who are typically against the death penalty, rallying to save McVeighs sorry life. Not that they should have but they sure have been trying to save that other cop killer from Phildadelphia. I can't recall his name off the top of my head, but he's a big time liberal for sure.

St. Denis a/k/a Denise
I fear you are the one who is delusional. I am and have been in every post rational and logical.

Your posts are filled with the illogical illusions and fear that can only be the product of a mind at best unhinged but more likely captive to the depths of paranoia.

By the way, I do not belittle the sufferings of anyone who has lived through the holocaust or doubt that their experiences would affect their dependents. However, I fear you do not have a very good definition of torture in mind if you think that word applies to the feelings you have when you watch someone tear up over the memories of things that happened to their ancestors.

Though it may be a struggle for you to stay focused, pay attention to what I actually SAY, not what you produce out of your own mind. I just said that Israel claims the do NOT use torture on their prisoners because they know it does not work. I did NOT say that Israel has nothing to fear from Muslim extremists.

Nevertheless I bet dollars to donuts that the Armageddon you allude to and seem to fear will not happen this year.

Denise
Sam keeps repeating,"Obama,we got your back".
That's good for Obama,just as long as Sam doesn't get his teleprompter.

Re: TEA Party sign..
STOP THE WITCH HUNT!

koolmuse II

I forgot to add that the DC snipers never existed.

Koolmuse
"Denise
I have no doubt you are the victim of mindcontrol.
But evidently it is not the Obama government who is controlling your mind.
I advise you to look elsewhere."

koolmuse, I have the facts. You on the other hand are suffering from mindcontrol. In your world there lacks the swine flu, 09.11.01 was a fantasy, "The Samson Option" is a comic book, AQ is a community organization, cancer is treated in a walk-in clinic, the Pontiac has been names "Car Of The Year, AIDS is like the common cold, a mock Air Force and 2 escort jets failed to do flyovers, etc.

Because I love you as human being, I beg you not to commit suicide-by-cop, sell beaucoup CDs, seek mental help and have a blessed life.

samir from dearborn
So the muzzie loser again brings up his empty threat that they got their brother muzzie's back.

Guess what loser you fools stand out like you are decorated with the grease paint pointing out to all what clowns you truly are.

Funny how you wimps think that having the four wives is you failed attempt to prove you are real men. But what about the young boys you also have around you at all times. Seems you can't decide whether you must prove you are tough guys by beating up your women or that you are trying to prove your nambl credentials.

But muzzie, curses on the prophet. Your god of death that demands you butcher all who don't agree with your lust for death.

Mindcontrol At Work

Two nights ago, I was listening to Coast-To-Coast online and many of the callers were from Michigan. They claimed that the CIA had a mindcontrol program there through the 1970s. In fact, many of them had to answer questions posed by and provide documentation to the government.

As I told koolmuse before, if I am lying may I be dead before this post appears.

It seems to me that "mindcontrol" is the latest, national "fad".

Win win for me
Since i have no children I have no investment in the future and am closer to the end than the beginning. I have seen the liberal mindset destroy Ca. And now they will destroy the country with thier thirst for power. I have to sit back and laugh at the mess they make and like children say "not me". Had cliton(spelling correct) had a little iron in his panties 9/11 would probably not have happened. So I will support the left just to watch them fall. Also the ladies on the left tend to the simple side and all you need is a bottle of wine and a "I hate bush" bumper sticker and a good sob story. enjoy the future.

slacker
Are you delusional?

My ex-husband is Jewish (BTW, watching him tear up watching a Gilette commercial WAS torture) and fathered my two children. His family had relatives that died in the Holocaust. My children, former husband, and relatives have traveled to Israel and witnessed the destruction of Hamas and Hezbollah. Been to a Sparro's in Israel, lately?

Do you know how many hours that you will be detained at any airport prior to be allowing to board?

Do you understand that there is a 2-year mandatory for all men and women to serve in the Israeli Army?

Can you comprehend the fact that Israel has received intelligence from all over the world that Iran will have a nuclear weapon within 60 days and that Benjamin Nethanayu will implement "The Samson Option" prior to that date?

Do you fail to acknowledge that Ahmadinejad believes that the 12th Imam will return on 08.22.09, but mass death and destruction must occur before then to insure such?

Are you sure that you aren't from Stockholm, as in syndrome?

Torture lovers

President Obama you are doing just fine, specialy reaching out to the Muslim world and prohibiting the tortue practices which the bush and his fellow war criminals has authorized.

Mr President, dont listen to these fringe linatic right wings, they are just a bunch of hypocrites, racists, islamophics, and COWARDS.
Mr President, the vast MAJORITY of Americans are bedhind you, the world is behind you.
Prosecute the war criminals of bush & co, dont torture them or mistreat them, no, let the old American justice prevail.
Personaly, I wish for all those convicted for war crimes to be put in death penalty. THEY EARNED IT.

Sam
Be bold Barack, we got your back.

St. Denis a/k/a Denise
You said,
"Israel may have abandoned "torture", but they have adopted "The Samson Option", which would nuke entire enemies."

... And what is your point?

... Are you saying that because they believe torture does not work and is actually counterproductive that they should also give up the right to defend themselves? That is nonsense.


Sammy
We are tired of hearing you whine like a little boy. Stop it!

Sam & Slacker

Slacker: Israel may have abandoned "torture", but they have adopted "The Samson Option", which would nuke entire enemies.


Sam: My brother is a veteran.

Judith
I have said this elsewhere, but it is worth repeating here in response to your post.

The logical and legal arguments over whether it works or not will not persuade anyone to change sides. Neither will name calling or as you seem to in your post, assertions that it is manly to torture prisoners to get information and effeminate to use more conventional interrogation techniques.

It all comes down to what YOU are as a human being when you form your own opinion on this topic.

There is something incredibly important that is missing from the minds and souls of those who justify torture as a means to an end. What is missing is the essence that separates us from the sadists, psychopaths and religious extremists in the world we are fighting.

If we adopt their tactics we have accepted and incorporated the evil of these terrorists into our souls. The enemy then has won. No matter what happens on the battlefield the people we are fighting to protect will see little difference between us and them and in winning the battle we will have lost the war.

Remember, the Israeli's who are arguably under even greater attack from extremists than we are, said they gave up on torturing their prisoners because they learned it does NOT work. We would do well to learn from them.

Miss st dennis

Miss dennis You are sitting and hiding in the safety of your house in the United States. I wish your brother was a victim of torture or your cousin, then you would have different approach. I am fed-up and tired hearing these children of immigrants, whether they are irish or italisan Americans, who are CLULESS and promoting that we torture the foreig prisoners as long as those victims are not white and christians. Just the way Nazi germany tortured the non-christian prisoners.
I wonder if these torture victims were irish catholics or italians.
Shame on you, you are Un-American and disgrace.

You are COWARDS, Racists and Dump cluelss,

Sam
Be bold Barack, we got your back.
Prosecute bush and all those WAR CRIMINALS, if they got Death penalty, so be it.

hoodaticus
I am not a "puppet master" and certainly not evil.

I am just a humble member of the "moral" majority.

Think about what this means
What democrats are saying is that Congress can make make criminal a President's wartime policy. This is a blatant power-grab by the Judiciary and Legislative on the Executive Branch at a time when we have an inexperienced, weak ruler.

The President needs to defend his Constitutional authority or resign.

To those who are hailing
the Messiah's releasing torture papers... guess it's not as bad as the enemy releasing the tape of Daniel Pearl's beheading. Or did you all forget that little piece of history.

You are not behaving like men but like ball-less wonders. I am proud of Americans for the most part. But those who want to cuddle the enemy and open us all to harm are vermin.

And to those who continue to serve are country like men, you are in our prayers every day and we are grateful for your service.




Slacker
It's called intentional crudeness. It's statistically impossible for all Democrats to be stupid. Which makes you one of the evil puppetmasters :).

Calling All Libs and Progressives!
I love you all as human beings.

I detest your political views.

I want you to have the best of health.

I want you to be wealthy.

I want you to speak freely.

I would rather have my fingernails ripped out if it would spare your lives.

I would prefer a terrorist to be "tortured" for you and any American if such prevents another terrorist attack.

I would love for all "top secret documents" going back to George Washington to be released, if one American could be saved.

I support the freedom of speech, press, and religion.

I support civil unions.

I adore the 2nd Amendment.

I hate “Big Government” and the Federal Reserve.

And, I wonder what the White House was thinking when it sent a low flying mock-up of Air Force One over NYC this morning scaring millions to death and using tax dollars, to boot.

koolmuse
Waterboarding is only unlawful in this situation if Congress has made it illegal and then only if the President does not have independent authority to torture anyway.

The President has exclusive authority to command soldiers in war time. The Constitution did not give one shred of military policy-making authority to Congress. All they can do is write checks.

The president's power to torture and kill enemy combatants is absolute. It is not qualified by international law because that only applies under the Constitution as criminal penalties which cannot be assessed in this case under the Separation of Powers doctrine.

samir from dearborn
looks like we see the return of that pos muzzie from dearborn.

Seems you muzzies have no trouble with every oil sheik and hateful mullah needs to have prisons and torture rooms to keep the followers of their blood cult that passes as a religion under control.

But to paraphrase gen. sherman, the only good muzzie is a dead muzzie. Since muzzie's only fall in 2 categories, the actual terrorists or the cowards who are their enab lers.

Seems samir you are one of the cowards who will aid and supply terrorists lacking the stones to fight for your blood cult

Sam states:
President Obama did the right thing for releasing those TORTURE MEMOS.

He just put every soldier, diplomat and citizen traveling abroad in peril. Their deaths will be on BO's hands and every person who backed this stupid political stunt.

hoodaticus
I confess I am a liberal. But I am not dumb.

If you want to see dumb look in a mirror. If the Obama administration wanted to prosecute Bush - which it doesn't - they would be smart enough to do so in a venue in which THEY not Bush had all the advantages.

In any case, in the court of public opinion Obama's approval rating is at about 65%. Bush is still hovering around 25% and probably lower. Cheney is around 15%.

Which is as it should be. They all have worked hard for and deserve the opinion ratings they have earned.

Koolmoose continues
to blather:

Federal prosecutors secured a 10-year sentence against the sheriff and four years in prison for the deputies. But that 1983 case - which would seem to be directly on point for a legal analysis on waterboarding

THESE WERE US CITIZENS YOU IDIOT! Right on point? You have no point.

and by the way, the Hague called and we told them to take it up with the UN. We told them both to stick it where the sun don't shine cause they have NO jurisdiction here.

Is Koolmoose really this stupid?

Tale of Two ??
I'm telling y'all there is going to be a run on Guillotines and Knitting Needles and Yarn.

This may turn out to be the only stock worth owning!

Pc is Thought Control

Koolmoose
aka...idiot posts my statement which leaves out the following:

Sounds like the only losers here are koolgoose and Hal. Legends in their own minds. I guess there are suckers born everyday...these two qualify! They continue to make statements that they can't backup...just more BS!

He can't even argue a point, he just copys and pastes and announces...you lost this argument too! Bwahahahahahaha!

This idiot needs waterboarded...oh oh...Is that torture? Oh my! Oooooooooooo!

Torture lovers = Nazi lovers

President Obama did the right thing for releasing those TORTURE MEMOS. Those who were resposible and authorizd should be prosecuted, Those who are defending the torture are same with those who defend Hitler and nazi. Hitler tortured prisoners. We excuted the japanese soldiers who tortured our soldiers. America have seen the EVIL of Bush war crimes, never again.

Sam
Barack, dont pardon the war criminal bush

I HOPE he prosecutes Bush
What are the odds of a jury that voted twice, overwhelmingly, for Bush, convicting him? HAHAHA!

Democrats are getting dumber every day. I can't imagine what it must be like to grow up with idiot teachers, graduate to idiot professors, and then go home to your idiot liberal family. Imagine: no thoughts!

drool loser
so when is the intl court going to indict the likes of the castros, chavez, ortega, kim jong mentally ill, every muslim dictator in the world and all the african dictators who butcher thousands to stay in power

Funny how losers like you soil your panties because a handful of terrorist were made un comfortable

But then losers like you hate america because they won't surrender to your muslim pals that you seem to idolize.

Bush and company defend america and you hate them for following their oath of office

America Was King of Shock & Awe
Slaker offers as to finding Hussain, "This was indisputably accomplished NOT by torture but by careful, painstaking conventional interrogation methods by experts."

And, as it turns out, the same interrogation techniques were applied against KSM: Trickery, not harm.

Of course, now that Obama has exposed our secrets of trickery, our ability instill anticipatory fear in our enemies has been compromised. When one exposes our Top Secret tricks, one ventures into high crimes and misdemeaners.

Bush would never do that. Bush puts America first, Obama could care less.

koolmuse
A little moral indiscretion? Excuse me but sticking a cigar up some dame's lover's alley IN THE WHITE HOUSE is not a little indiscretion.(Especially when he was suppose to be attending to other duties that fall under his title of The President of the United States.) Gag.

And I, personally, don't care if they twisted the balls off some detainee (which, of course, they didn't)if it meant saving the lives of Americans from another 9/11.

I can certainly see how your priorities are stacked. You'll take a president playing doctor over one who managed to keep us terror free for 7 years. You are, truly, a royal horse's a**. Wait...don't run away. I found this rubber catheter that might just do the trick for you.

Koolmuse, The Reason We Have Standards
Koolmuse offers, "If you torture someone they will tell you whatever you want to know....whether its true or not. The information is unreliable as hell."

So, as a soldier, you figure the only reason you would use harsh interrogation is for fun? Well, unlike you, good soldiers only do what works.

We are a long way from "trials"
If the Attorney General believes there is enough evidence to bring a clear cut case against anyone over the torture of Gitmo prisoners, then by all means let him do so! No one is above the law & if we disagree with the law then let Congress change it.

But this probably won't happen. It will be difficult or impossible to indict anyone and Holder isn't going to be stupid enough to waste his time on a case that won't get past a grand jury much less a jury trial

On the other hand, Congress is free to call hearings if they want. By all means let them do so if they have the nerve. Bring on all the evidence for and against what was done and whether any actionable intelligence was obtained from torture. Also bring out what evidence was obtained by other means. Let the people hear both sides.

I bet the judgment of the people will then go against the Bush administration. But I have an open mind. Maybe it won't. Till then I side with Obama.

Remember the highest value accomplishment of interrogators was finding Saddam. This was indisputably accomplished NOT by torture but by careful, painstaking conventional interrogation methods by experts.

Hal Donahue Continues To Trash Comrades!
Hal Donahue offers, "First, you have damaged the country so badly I don't think you will ever win again."

Still calling out your comrades as torturers?

Let's see, Bush gave a green light to our comrades to trick terrorists into thinking that we are not only capable of tourture, we will inflict it on them. Of course, with idiot KSM, it took over 180 tries to convince him that we meant business. Trickery is not so easy. In his case, at what point did waterboarding become torture or a lousy way to spend an afternoon?

Bush, not wanting to neuter our ability to fool the enemy, let the charade of torture remain in place, even to his own political peril. For Bush, America comes first.

Obama, needing political cover to get his stupid socialist agenda in place, gave up America's secret of not really torturing anyone. To Obama, Obama comes first.

We Will Win
. . . and trials will be held. Count on it if you go through with this destructive prosecution.

koolmuse
"Date: Apr 27, 2009 - 9:07 PM EST
Robert
Listen you f--king idiot.
If you get on the torture merry-go-round with Islamic Jihad...then you're no better than they are... Bush and the GOP showed themselves (and America) to be no different than Binladen and his tribe of murderers."

Very well said! Too bad none called my radio show LOL. They are just frightened weaklings.

To Some, Truth Is All Invention
Koolmuse offers, "Torture adds greatly to the fervor and recruitment of terrorists. That's what the professional military interrogators told Bush."

Really? Which interrogator did you interview? Do you have this on tape?

What did these "interrogators" say about scaring people through tepid waterboarding, whereby it takes over 180 trials just to irritate the captive?

koolmuse raves and hal babbles
. . . and they believe we will never win again. It's just Democrats all the way to the bottom. Watch what the reaction will be to the disastrous trials you want so badly, and get back to me.

Robert
"Date: Apr 27, 2009 - 7:51 PM EST
Let' See What Happens
. . . if the left gets its show trials and punishes American patriots for their opinion on legal memos. What goes round comes round, and when we win again, as we surely will, we will have our own trials, but for treason. ..."

First, you have damaged the country so badly I don't think you will ever win again. The RINO's are back. You approve of crime?

Koolmuse babbles
If you torture the enemy they torture our guys. So if we don't, they don't? What a total fool!

Liberals
who want these type of trials are simply stupid!

Fact is by doing what they want they put every soldier, politician, diplomat and american citizen traveling abroad in jeopordy!

But they, like the leader, don't really care about America and it;'s citizens...now do they?

Koolgoose states:
Conservatives are Coven of Losers
You lost the war on terror to Alqaida.
You lost the war In Iraq.
You lost the war in Afghanistan.
You lost the economy.
You lost on abortion.
You lost on interrati...gay marriage.
You lost on prayer in school.
You lost the elections in 2006.
You lost worse in 2008.
You lost on stem cell research.
You're losing the class war.
You might lose on the prosecution for torture.

You lost every debate VS koolmuse and Hal on TownHall.

Sounds like the only losers here are koolgoose and Hal. Legends in their own minds. I guess there are suckers born everyday...these two qualify! They continue to make statements that they can't backup...just more BS!

We The People Stimulus Package
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeYscnFpEyA

Robert
This push for Socialism, if not stopped soon, is going to produce a civil war.

American Patriots are nice & dedicated totally to what made this Country great, but when enough becomes to much, the S@#T will hit the fan
We want our Country back.

Robert
"Date: Apr 27, 2009 - 2:59 PM EST
The CIA Is Looking for Agents
. . . but who of any ability will be willing to expose themselves to possible outing by vindictive politicians whenever an administration changes? Good luck on getting quality people to serve..."

IT was FAR worse in the 70's and guess what good men and women lined up to serve. I knew many of them well. I have referred many there recently. It is about serving the community and the country. Government service should be the higher calling over business. Times are changing...

Let' See What Happens
. . . if the left gets its show trials and punishes American patriots for their opinion on legal memos. What goes round comes round, and when we win again, as we surely will, we will have our own trials, but for treason. These trials will rip the country apart and foster more hatred than anything any government has done in a hundred years. You are sowing the wind, and will reap the whirlwind.

From Larry Kelley Town Hall

"Capitalism's stated goal is freedom while socialism's stated goal is equality, and in the, capitalism does deliver freedom, yet socialism NEVER delivers equality."


Obafascist Show Trials For Power
Kathleen offers, "President Bush, in all his eight years, never once tried to prosecute members of the previous Democratic party. Neither, did the Republicans in Congress.The criminalization of politics, the endless panels and commissions--those are the province of the Dems."

Absolutely.

Add to that, President Bush never let the secret out that no torture was being performed. It was all a trick to cause fear and submission. Excellent interrogation methods, all fear, no harm.

Bush, to his own political peril never gave up that secret, even today. For him, America came first.

Now, we have a demagogue in office that will do anyting for a vote. For Obama (or Obafascist), Obama comes first, America .. who cares?

Thanks to Obafascist, our enemies, now, know that we do not torture. Good luck on scaring the truth out of anyone, now.

Let's Criminalize Politics!
What a great idea! You have your trials for bogus torture and expose the country to years of turmoil. Then, when we're in again, as we surely will be, we'll have our trials for real treason.

I don't believe it
no matches for "Ministry of Truth" on this page. I thought that that was a no-brainer.

Madame Defarge was Vindictive
Read Tale of Two Cities, also watched on Masterpeace Theater.

Madame Defarge was not just vindictive--she was blood thirsty.

If you want to know how the ENEMY tortures, read Vince Flynn's "Extreme Measures."

I am not willing to sacrifice my children and grandchildren to the idiots who want to coddle Jihadists.


The Socialist
Party will gladly tear this Country apart so long as the dirty politics works.

What the Mob Regime is doing is being done to get the public thinking of something other than their terrible mishandling of the economy.

President George Soros & the page boy have no idea how to fix things up despite being the rotten scum that screwed it up.

torture
Where was the 'anti-torture' outcry when U.S. citizens were being be-headed for nothing more than being American?

Rowly has it right
it's just about the left's animus for Cheney and has nothing to with with law. In "Hamdan" the USSC declared that Hamdan and others so-situated were covered by common article 3 of the Geneva Conventions. Article 3 is pretty vague when it comes down to just what is or is not permitted. It would have to be specified by congress under the power to "define and punish...offenses against the law of nations." Until defined there obviously can be no punishment. We note that congress passed the McCain amendment to the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005, which suggests there was no specific definition prior to its passage. Alternatively, the USSC has judicial power to all cases, in law and equity, arising under treaties made under [the United States'] authority. It isn't clear how this would apply in the extant case.

First of all, illiterates
Madame Defarge was not a vindictive character - she never even spoke during the entire novel.
Why don't you actually read instead of just parroting each other?

As for angry Democrats, how can anybody in their right mind be against torture, right?

Concern for human beings - and one's own country - is just so yesterday.

Babies
While the left is planning its guillotine parties we are rapidly being overtaken by the Muslim horde, if you are not aware of the demographic change watch this, it is enlightening to say the least.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

Madame Defarge = bad karma
"The Madame Defarges of the Democratic left want to see the guillotine flash down and heads roll."
Let's just hope they all end up like vindictive ole Madame Defarge. Remember...Karma's a b__ch!

Criminalization of Politics
President Bush, in all his eight years, never once tried to prosecute members of the previous Democratic party. Neither, did the Republicans in Congress.

The criminalization of politics, the endless panels and commissions--those are the province of the Dems.

It's going to be painful to watch.

Numbers
250k signatures enough to get leftists panties in bunch. 350k signatures not enough for the Chosen One's long form birth certificate go figure.

Rowly
Actually to believe what the left believes you have to be at best a poor student of history and insane... we all know the definition of insanity Doing the same thing expecting different results.

Conservatives are the Cop Killers?
I notice that when this accusation is made, the guy who killed the 4 police officers in Oakland is conveniently left out of the discussion. Why is that? People in Oakland actually held demonstrations in support of that thug. Most of those demonstrators were likely to be PBO supporters. They probably caught the free ACORN bus to the polls and received a free carton of smokes for doing so.

Who kills the most cops in America everyday? It's criminal low lifes from the largest cities, where liberalism and leftyism runs rampant. That's not to say most liberals and lefties are cop killers. But the town loony tried to imply that most conservatives are cop killers and most cop killers are conservatives.

Gang bangers, pimps, and drug lords in our inner cities would most likely be PBO supporters. I'm not saying they all voted for him, but those who got off their drug induced stupor and got their stupid, rear ends out of bed, probably got on an ACORN bus for free transportation to the polls and most likely voted for PBO and the assorted democrats on the ballots.

Most of us conservatives want guns to protect ourselves from those looney liberals who commit the vast majority of crimes and kill the most cops.

As for Tim McViegh, did you ever see any conservatives out protesting in support of that thug? No sir. We were happy to see that POS assume room temperature.

If only liberals could disassociate themselves from the pimps, drug kingpins, gang bangers and every other thug who infests the inner cities and lives off of the government programs while making life miserable for the rest of the people who are trapped there. But those folks are most likely democrats or lean left in the political spectrum. They belong to the liberals. The liberals keep them dependent on the government so that they keep voting for liberal programs.

David
Thanks,David. Do you sometimes wonder if the left have lost their minds?

Rowly
Good post, so true.

What is really funny kind of, if they continue to castrate our ability to fight the terrorists and are successful, terrorists would kill the abortion loving, gay rights supporters first! Now that would be a bit of Irony!

The Madame DeFarges
They are still afflicted with BDS and CDS. They hate both Bush and Cheney more than they hate the Taliban,AlQuaida,Bin Ladin or any other Muslim.

If it means destroying the country to get rid of Republicans,especially conservatives,many are all for it. They believe in throwing out the baby with the bath water.

They are too mesmerized with their leader to see that if we suffer,so will they.

Obamass
doesn't "want" to destroy the America based on the most phenomenal piece of work done by man, The Constitution, he is ALREADY doing it. Do you liberal twits get it or is it that you just don't care. God, I wish you'd all move to CA and help it fall into the ocean.

Royinsolo
If the left can compare Bush to Hitler and conservatives to nazi's, then the comparison here is no less extreme. A better comparison might be with Castro. No one was quite sure where he stood and no action was taken. No one wanted another Guatamela. Castro brought the bloodshed later on.

irrational
The logic or lack of it to be more precise of the leftist posters on this site hurts my head. If you try to follow their logic, if someone in the military commits a crime, this means you should suspect anyone in the military of being a criminal. If a leftist committed a crime, would this mean that all leftists are more likely to commit crimes. Humm.

And they are so in love with their own superiority that they think we cannot answer what they are saying. I cannot answer what their saying because it simply makes no sense.
And I grow weary of their foolishness.

djdacosta
I wish some here would debate on an intelligent level. It all comes down to our guy won and your ideas and guy lost. Well McCain wasn't my choice. Yet he had the countries best interest at heart, rather then undermining those her protect her and cramming down our throats programs that no sane person would agree on. These bills and spending have been in desk drawers for years just waiting for the right time and right person to pull them out and fulfill them. That time is now, thought they would push all this through during Clinton, it was stopped then. If we wake up 60%of this foolishness can be stopped, God willing. But, maybe it is God's will as we have turned so far away from Him and the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ. This may very well be our wake-up call from God.

The name calling and childish behavior can stop, let us just debate the issues and leave the name calling in the school yard.

juanita broderick interview
billy was alerted that the jb interview was to come on the air in a few months. this was the story of the attorney general of ak raping a woman.
by coincidence, the cruise missles were unleashed and the f15s to bomb Belgrad the day before, thereby pushing the interview off the air.

go ahead and try bush, clinton, 'waco' reno, albright, hilly, reich, cheney.

i think we should be bipartisan in our show trials. kinda like more open, honest, ethical, transparent government.

(when the village liar said he would swear on a stack of bibles that he was telling the truth, you began to understand that people that are honest do not need to proclaim their character in words. just deeds.)

adios,
ab
lancaster, prop8ifornia
push 1 for english

and arnie, no more taxes, no matter what.

Mon Cher, Koolmuse

You should know that some of my forebears lost their heads in the French Revolution, that my relatives helped to liberate France and the Jews residing therein, that my sister lives in Nantes, and that truckers will strike over anything.

You might be able to get a banane a George V, L'Hôtel de Crillon, Fourguet's ou Benoit, mais trying getting an air-conditioner in août, if you are middle class, poor ou elderly. Granted, I was ensconced in an air-conditioned suite at The Carlton in Cannes, I remember "août de 1993" when 15,000 people died parce que they didn't have cooling. Particularly hard hit were the infirm and elderly parents, whose caregivers and children went on vacation.

Viva Le Sarkozy! Especially, since he tried to wean the populace by increasing the minimum work week from 36 to 40 hours. His payback was a national strike from the teat-sucking Frogs.

We Dare ObamaBoy's Admin. To Investigate

House Intelligence Committee Members ,at the time , then Ranking Member Nancy Pelosi , Jay Rockefeller Of West Virginia and Jane Harman Of Colliefornia were briefed on Waterboarding by The C.I.A.,which briefed The Committee on Waterboarding ,more than 30 Times.

Call Their Bluff !

We Dare ObamaBoys To Investigate !

koolmuse
Are you loney. I never said "that only conservatives beat their wives."

Newsflash! I love it...
"A German-Italian cruise ship with 1,500 people on board fended off a pirate attack far off the coast of Somalia on Saturday, in which the vessel's private Israeli security force exchanged fire with the bandits and drove them off, the ship's commander said yesterday."

Note that even the Italians have figured out that if you cannot or will not fight to defend yourselves, you have to hire someone else to do it for you. Obviously, koolmuse, Hal Donohue, Dr. Douglas and other wussified trolls who post on here have not figured that out for themselves. While not really wishing it on anyone, we can only hope that when--not if--the attack comes, it does so in such a way as to finally get their attention, if only in that last second before they are incinerated.

The CIA Is Looking for Agents
. . . but who of any ability will be willing to expose themselves to possible outing by vindictive politicians whenever an administration changes? Good luck on getting quality people to serve. That'll help America, won't it?

Sorry wrond address
Sure we can get the needed signers, send to all your frinds and have them sign:

http://www.petitiononline.com/nc082505/petition.html

Wherefrom the hatred?
Where does all this hatred come from? Do those who feel it, on the Right or Left, believe this leads to a healthy debate of the issues that divide us?

We're no longer divided by issues, we're divided by hate. We will not escape from this pit until we can disagree like adults and debate our differences on the basis of intelligence and factual evidence.

Ad hominem attacks are elmentary school stuff, juvenile at best, downright dangerous as it's now become common practice among political activists and designed to stifle, not stimulate debate.

Does anyone think this is desirable? The answer apparently is yes, absolutely. And who might they be? Those who have an agenda that is supported by emotions, not facts.

No comparison
What we did to those despicable lechers in pursuit of 72 virgins is nothing when compared to how Russia handles their torture.

And while I'm not saying that we should be as ruthless as the Russians, it comes to mind that spending a few days in one of our soldiers' boots might do liberals a heap of good.

Twits!


Shallow Hall Opines
" trust the people they have thrown evil conservatives into the dustbin of history." Since there are almost twice as many conservatives as there are liberals, your jubilation may be premature. Who wins the moderate voters wins the election. And who screws up the economy worse and quadruples the national debt may well lose the moderate.
Next election, you may well say that they don't make the future like they used to.


It won't matter
When the U.S. is attacked, Obama will NOT be blamed; BUSH will be blamed for agitating the terrorists into a frenzy with his xenophobic, cowboy ways.

Obama will use it as an argument for his own strengthened control over the U.S. - a constitutional amendment removing term limits for the President, a Congressional authorization for his "National Civilian Military Force" and God-only-knows what else. And the true believers will bow and scrape and appalud and say, "Yes, oh, yes, Anointed One! Take care of us!"

Anyone who thinks that Obama will be blamed or held responsible for ANYTHING bad that happens in the next four years is deluding himself.

tgambogi
"Date: Apr 27, 2009 - 11:50 AM EST... According to the actual interrogators this is simply not true. Remember it was the interrogators who waved the BS flag saying this is stupid, criminal and crazy...He will be reelected in a landslide. What do you do then?

I have a greater faith in America than you..."

No you do not. I trust the people they have thrown evil conservatives into the dustbin of history. You are nothing but whining reactionaries. You had best think what you will do

"...I’ll do my best to insure he’s never re-elected to anything including dog catcher. "

That is the American way have at it but prepare for disappointment. Your day is done

Water boarding is Torture?
When the terrorist stop being sucide bombers,decapitating reporters and others. Stop the roadside bombing ambushing supplies intended for aid to improvished African countries. Put on uniforms and fight like soldiers instead of using women and children as human shields will I support NOT using water boarding. Americans should not have to fight with one hand tied behind it. We are at WAR with extremists who will DO anything.
Water boarding is the only time these terrorist get their faces cleaned and hair washed.
When we are attacked again and we will be with the Coward BO in office maybe America will wake UP again...right now they are comforable in their easy chairs.

David
Don't waste your time with droolsluice; its comment about the American people choosing socialism should be enough to tell you that this individual is a traveler, and talking with it is a useless pursuit.
Furthermore:
The statements made by it and it's ilk, in this thread as well as others, should indicate to all of us who still believe in our constitution that they are the enemy within. I started out posting here as a moderate independent, but after dealing with the so-called socialists (read Marxist)here I've come to the conclusion that most of those on the left are either enemies of the U.S.A. or are tools of them.

Waterboarding Trolls
Sorry, crawfish. You have to waterboard people who have some true information. Trolls don't qualify

New Petition ...
Waterboard Trolls! We might get high level actionable information.

There Will Be No Prosecution
. . . because it is obvious that the members of the committees on intelligence were briefed on waterboarding and other coercive methods in 2002 and 2003 and either approved or did not object. No one dissented, including the present day Democratic leaders. They gave their assent, so they are responsible. If they didn't want this to happen, they could have objected. None did. Guilty.

Kevin Sysyn Alias Koolmuse The Dweeb !

Apparently,you're a frustrated Has Been Nobody Musician with too much time on your hands .

Never Heard Of Ya !

Get a Job !

Victims
All of you people who support the release of the "Torture Memos" seem to have forgotten the 3000 people, many of whom were incinerated, killed on 9-11 by this very KSM. Yet he still lives and has no scars from enhanced interrogation and many in LA and NYC are alive because he was waterboarded 183 times. I have no sympathy for him or for anyone without the stomach to do hard things to keep the innocent alive from the very evil men dedicated to our deaths.

3000 killed over 7000 injured, weep for the real victims and their families. Have appreciation that we have men willing to do the hard things to save the innocent. Alas no longer will we have these tools to use because of the angry, bitter, vengeful and envious left that demands its pound of flesh. What despicable people they are!

The Democrats in Congress

knew all along (since at least 2002) the Bush Administration's decision on coercive interrogation techniques.

I blame the Democrats for all of the torture(if any) done by the U.S.A. in the War on Terror. They are the ones who NOW say the interrogation techniques they were told about are torture.

Waterboarding is Not Torture
That's the whole point of my posts. You say it is. I say it isn't. You say "If you approve using torture to taleban for information by US you have to accept torture of US soldiers and citizens by muslim terrorists?"
First, it's spelled Taliban. Second, why would I have to accept torture of US soldiers and civilians? They do it anyway regardless of whether I approve or not.
One thing is for certain regardless of which of us is right-- exposing this covert CIA operation destroys the possibility of cooperation with foreign covert agencies-- they don't want to end up on the front page of the NY Times. This gives aid and comfort to the enemy, which is the exact definition of treason. You probably made a big fuss about the 'outing' of Valerie Plame, at least until it was found that a Democrat had done it. Where's your indignation for the outing of an entire covert program?

Freedom Will Win Out Over Obamaism
Hal Donahue offers, "Conservatism is bankrupt and now a failed philosophy."

Conservatism is about preserving the Constitution's mission according to it's preamble, "We, the people, ..... provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our prosterity, ...."

It has not failed. It is under assault by Liberals, by definition, trying to change our mission from "We, the people" to "We, the Government" and other such freedom stoppers.

In the end, Freedom will win out and the Liberals will go back to haunting halls with their freedom suffocating Central Planning and Collectivism. So, enjoy your day, but your hate and stifling fascism will bring out the Conservatives even amongst your supporters.

Leo,

where did you get the idea that the decapitators of Islamic terrorism do not currently torture our troops if they are captured by these barbarian thugs?

Whatever the state of America currently,

the Democrats have been running the Congress for more than two years. That seems like long enough to become responsible for our current situation.

The Democrats have decided how to address the country's needs for more than the last two years. How do you think they have done so far determining what will make America the best it can be?

What was the unemployment rate when the Dems took over Congress? I believe it was, nationally, 4.2 percent

What was the mortgage foreclosure rate when the Dems took control? I believe it was under 1 percent as opposed to the current 5 percent.

I could go on, but you get the picture.

As for 250,000 signing a petition

to go after Bush officials, far more than that have signed petitions to find out what Obama is hiding in his past.

Millions are curious to know why Obama fears revealing his past to his constituents.

The amazing thing is that the professionally curious (the members of the media) are almost 100% in denial of their professional duties.

Get this. One of the most powerful men in world is afraid to reveal his past to his constituent and the professionally curious question askers are unconcerned.

This includes Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity, Ingraham, Olberman, Maddow, Tucker whatever his name is, the NY Times, the Wall Street Journal, CBS News, NBC news, ABC news, Fox news, the Daily Kos, Huffington Reports, etc.

These people pride themselves on their professional standards and yet are either afraid of or complicit with Obama.

Robert
It was a government run by Republicans and they turned USA into nature that tortures, and not only that, a country that outsourced torture to Syria and Egypt.

If you approve using torture to taleban for information by US you have to accept torture of US soldiers and citizens by muslim terrorists? or do you only approve torture performed by Americans.


Waterboarding
The "enhanced interrogation techniques" used on a handful of al-Qaida bigwigs were derived from what U.S. pilots and special forces personnel undergo in SERE training (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape). Few in their right minds would describe the SERE course — through which thousands have passed without ill effect — as "torture." So do we torture our troops? It isn't torture-- period.

koolmuse
"F--king tax-cuts for the wealthy...for the people who ruined the economy... for the people who profited by hundreds of billions for Bush's wars...

We will see. But I think y'all ain't gettin away with it this time.

You do ride the short bus. If you think that the general public has a long memory or attention span you are wrong. Outside of the relative merit of your comments, people will blame Obama when this economy continues to worsen and his incredible deficits are producing nothing but high inflation and high taxes. You are truly ignorant if you have not learned that about the fickle nature of the public.

Oh BTW very boring use of expletive and incidentally the rich did not ruin the economy would be against their own interest and if you want to know what really happened read Meltdown by Woods and find out the real story of the Fed.

Obama wants to destroy the

America of the founders and re-build it in his image.

He has been honest about this. That is why he earlier in his political life said that the USSC under Warren did not go far enough in eliminating constitutional safeguards against an overweening federal government.

Make no mistake about it, Obama does not like the fact that white people have been very successful under the current Constitution.

The problem is, as an old banker friend told me once, "Eddie if someone took all the wealth in the world and divided it equally among all the people in the world, in ten years those who have no money now would have no money then and those who have most of the money then."

It is not about the system in which we live our lives. It is about the principles of living to which we ascribe.

No matter what system we live under, people who live according to the principles of success will be most successful and those who refuse to live according to those principles will end up appearing to be discriminated against economically.

If Obama does not understand that, he is a bigger idiot than he first appeared to be.

Waterboarding
The "enhanced interrogation techniques" used on a handful of al-Qaida bigwigs were derived from what U.S. pilots and special forces personnel undergo in SERE training (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape). Few in their right minds would describe the SERE course — through which thousands have passed without ill effect — as "torture." So how is this torture? Do we torture our troops? And don't even mention fraternities.
One wonders what the leftists would be saying if it was a democratic administration. Nothing.

Obama Has Exposed America's Soft Side
Leo offers, "The true Madame Defarges here are the torture apologists who celebrate and rejoice in causing and inflicting pain,"

First off, read the book, your analogy is stupid, if not ignorant.

Second, no torture has been shown. What has been shown is that Americans trick others into fear of torture. Our President, demonstrating his hate, has thrown the baby out with the bath water.

Our enemies, thanks to his vengeful act to feed his minions, are now aware that we go out of our way not to harm our captives. The trick has been exposed. So much for our front line defenders of scaring the truth out of anybody, anymore.

The true
Madame Defarges here are the torture apologists who celebrate and rejoice in causing and inflicting pain, USA breaking every international treaty it has ever signed and descent of USA to the level of the forces ot claims to fight against.

True Madame Defarges do believe that end justifies the means and that all in order to win taleban we have to turn into them. The true Madame Defarges use the newspeak where "torture" is enhanced interrogation technique.


Encourage Trolls Whenever You Can
Every time they post, it means more advertising revenue for TownHall. Rave on, loons, we can always use the money.

Carlos is right about "Koolmuse"
Kevin Sysyn (Koolmuse) is a liberal socialist atheist by his own words

This lefty troll is persistent
- 27 posts in 4 hours
- informs us that everyone except the 2 trolls are losers
- posts the same comments on blog after blog, article after article
- almost nobody responds. Those who respond, quickly learn to put him on “scrollby” status.

No other place to empty his diapers?

koolmuse RE:post #82
Once again you allude to an article you posted earlier on this forum where you concluded that the perp of the violence that ended in the death of two law enforcement agents who persued a domestic abuser in a chase is a "right wing extremist" like Timothy Mcveigh profiled in the DHS report which became public last week.

First of all I will state that I was unable to find any biograhpical information which you stated earlier linked the man, Josh Cartwright, to some malitia group. When I did an online search the articles I found were all repetitive of the one you posted a link to. Very little was said about the man. One article did say that after he had beaten his wife previously as reported on an open police report he listed the Army reserve as an eployer.

You jump to many conclusions without facts to support them. Do you pull you r facts from your hat because I couldn't find them on any news reports?

Some questions to answer:
Was the man ever deployed to a war zone?

Had he indeed suffered from PTSD which the DHS report mentions in their profiling of "dangerous etremeist military types"?

Where is the proof that he was involved with a malitia group?

You have not supported your assumptions, nor made a logical arguement for your position.

droolmuse
so I gather you fully approve of mr janet reno's efforts to invade koresch's compound to rescue the children''Funny how her rescue efforts reulted in so many of those she planned to rescue ended up dead.

The koresch people weren't going anywhere as they were encircled by fb i. But still mr reno seemed to have had a hot flash and demnaded the fbi act in an irresposible manner.

But being a typical dim reno lacked the common decency to resign for her misguided leadership. And why wasn't mr reno put on trial for her actions. Instead she kept her job. Later tried to do the the voters in florida what she did to those in texas, fortuately the people in florida were wise to mr reno's real abililities

koolmuse at 12:14
"You lost the war on terror to Alqaida.
You lost the war In Iraq.
You lost the war in Afghanistan."

Tell the free Iraqis they lost. Tell Obama to get all the troops out of Afghanistan--now. You, sir, are a traitor, a coward and a fool.

"You lost the economy.
You lost on abortion.
You lost on interrati...gay marriage.
You lost on prayer in school.
You lost on stem cell research.
You're losing the class war.
You might lose on the prosecution for torture."

Those are just all signs that, thanks to Obama, Pelosi and Reid, we have all lost.

"You lost the elections in 2006.
You lost worse in 2008."

Those are proof of the old saying that you cannot overestimate the stupidity of large groups.

"You lost every debate VS koolmuse and Hal on TownHall."

Only in your own minds.

Robert from AZ 12:22pm
Robert, isn't it amazing how these leftist slugs went all ballistic when Valerie Plaime was supposedly "outed" even though she was not in covert status?

But they stand and cheer when a covert program is uncovered for all our enemies to see, and the call for the heads of those who kept us safe.

As evidenced by the quality of comments from the trolls here, they are all mentally ill. They should be put in a rubber room where they can't hurt anyone. They also are despicable hypocrits. What low-life pieces of human debris they are.

I no longer will respond or acknowledge any of them because all they want to do is destroy the thread. They can eat their favorite food and die.

The Geneva Convention
I keep hearing about it, but obviously nobody has read it. The people we have at Guantanamo are illegal combatants. They do not wear uniforms and they use the civilian population as a shield. They are not entitled to protection under the Geneva Convention. We have the right under international law to shoot the lot. The fact that we haven't is a sign of our compassion.
This has long legal precedent. When we captured nonuniformed soldiers, or soldiers wearing false uniforms in WW2 and the Civil War, we executed them. When we sent nonuniformed soldiers behind the lines in the Anderson Raid and other operations, they were executed. So perhaps the terrorists should be grateful for the waterboarding. It's far better treatment than they are legally entitled to.

Obama
and his continual indecisiveness will be his Achilles heel.

TALE OF TWO PARTIES

.....CAST ...

.....HILLARY CLINTON AS MADAME DEFARGE ...

.....JOHN MCCAIN AS RONALD COLEMAN ...

.....OBAMA AS ROSPIERRE ...

.....MCCAIN ..."Tis a far far better thing I do" (CHOP - THUNK) .....COLOSSUS

Don't worry about waterboarding
We couldn't use it again if we wanted to. Thanks to all hoop-la, the terrorists are training their followers to resist it, now that they know exactly how many seconds it is allowed etc.

When are we going to stop giving the other side information to destroy us?

Voters
who give us "leaders" like Obama, Pelosi, Schumer, Frank, Dodd, etc., etc., are yet more proof of the complete failure of higher education in America.

An MBA is NOT an education. A degree in Engineering is NOT an education. An EDUCATED person has a serious grounding in the humanities: History, language, logic, economics, as well as course discipline in their major field. Absent these, one is only trained - not educated. It is quite obvious that the core curricula is NOT accomplishing the goal of EDUCATING our voters.

America needs educated people as voters.

And our system of maleducation isn't providing it. So we give it tax dollars because... ???

koolmuse at 11:54
I'm still waiting to hear of a criminal statute violated. Surely there is at least one lawyer on your side; give Holder a call; I'm sure he is all over it. And, while you so blithely cite the Geneva Conventions, remember that most of the folks you are defending are not uniformed combatants; many of them are not even fighting uniformed combatants; they are terrorists seeking to wreak havoc on unarmed civilians. It is doubtful the Conventions apply to them at all.

However, I am willing for you to give them your GPS coordinates, so their next suicide bomber or plane hi-jacker can show up on your doorstep, and you can try to talk him into standing down. This is not Risk, and you cannot defeat those who are out to kill you by rolling the dice. What is it going to take to wake you people up?

Whaaa Happened Kooky Mouse ?

Bush vs Obama poll numbers - March 2001 Gallup GWB - 69%, Rasmussen Obama - 56% (GWB up 13)
6 weeks into their perspective administrations, had GWB leading 13 percentage points higher than Obama. GWB’s poll numbers were higher in comparison to Obama’s, EVEN after stealing the presidency (SARCASM) and ticking off half the nation. How can this be? All the liberal media told us Obama was the one to lead us to a brighter future. Obama poll numbers are in a free fall.
Attribution:http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2009/03/08/bush-vs-obama-poll-numbers-march-2001-gallup-gwb-69-rasmussen-obama-56-gwb-up-13/

koolmuse Cuts and Pastes same Mssg
Don't respond to this guy. He's cutting and pasting the same message on every blog.


Madame Defarge Syndrome
This backlash is totally inappropriate.

Terrorism is insane evil in action and the only remedy is to tackle it head-on with similar tactics; it’s ugly against ugly. What the defenders must not lose sight of is not to let the violence be the only solution which will surely make them lose the higher moral ground over time.

Intractable terrorists may have important info that could endanger many American innocent lives. I have absolutely no reservations in using torture on non-citizen terrorist suspects as it WILL provide useful intel over time if conducted properly (e.g.: Cross checking with other sources, actual verification of info and so on and re-interrogation/torture as needed until veracity is obtained). Desperate times require desperate measures and those have to be realistically adjusted to the problem confronted.

Waterboarding Did Work
It gave us information that prevented an attack on LA and on the Brooklyn Bridge, for example. It's no good playing the coulda woulda game, that we would have gotten the information anyway. How on earth could you know that? We know it worked-- we don't know that something else would have.
Waterboarding isn't torture. I've nearly drowned several times as a diver, a surfer, and swimming. It didn't stop me from doing any of those activities. Torture surely would have.
Another thing we know for sure. This outing of a covert CIA program hurts our ability to work with other intelligence agencies, since they suspect rightly that anything they do covertly with us will end up in the New York Times. It definitely gives aid and comfort to the enemy-- and that is the definition of treason. If the Obama administration takes this to court, when the government changes, as it always does, then it will be our turn with trials not for 'torture', but for treason.

Oooo, a bug!!
Watch out MuleCooze, the big bad caterpiller might get you. Worked on KSM for sure and for certain.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Simple solution
None of these scumbags are covered under the Geneva Conventions since they don't meet any of the required criteria.

In fact, since they are not in uniform and don't where any identifiable insignia, the convention allows them to be treated as spys. This means they can be shot immediately on the battlefield once they are captured.

So here's what the new procedures should be:

When the vermin are captured they will be requested to form two lines.

One line is for those of have information they would like to share.

The other line goes over to stand against a wall.

Those in the first line not providing anything of value join those in the second line.

Problem solved.

And all the while Madame De Farge ...
and her ilk care not one whit for the soldiers they are hurting.

They pay lip service to our military. Truth is..., they have as much regard for them as they do for the past administration.

Soldiers will be killed because of what they are trying to bring about. It is a given.

Madame DeFarge and company do not care.

Banana Republic Bravo Sierra!!!!
That's ALL this is. A show trial for the rabid far Left sickoes. This is what the ChiComs and old Soviet Union used to do: criminalize past policies they disagreed with.


-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Koolmuse
Bless you child as you know not what you do.
True your guy won, good for you guys
Now why doesn't he do something about the country rather then giving away our secrets, cont. to allow babies to be murdered and let gays marry rather then enjoy a civil union? We don't want him dead. He is the President already, we just don't have to agree with him.
Sure you didn't agree with Bush, so let us enjoy the same mind set as you did during the Bush years.

this guy has gotta be kidding
Most of us know the difference between local law enforcement dunking an American's head in a bucket and the CIA getting info from terrorists.

Trolls,
and lefty scum, are clamoring for blood, but again, only OUR (conservative's) blood.
I was being facetious using "d" words in describing lefty scum tactics.
They also regularly practice projection, inversion, equivocation, and simple rejection (well, you're just wrong).
They use the term "progressive" as if it meant "inevitable", or "enlightened" when nothing could be further from the truth.
What is "progressive" about advancing theories and ideology that were proposed a century ago?
What is "enlightened" about supporting policies which remove the necessity of thought, and are strictly based on emotion?
A is A, and calling it by another name won't change it into a B.
Saying "I prefer to be called progressive" doesn't change the fact that those who are engaged in such verbal gymnastics are fascists, and by the time they recognize this simple logic, (if ever) it may be too late to avoid the very oppression they themselves are fostering.
That is the point of the article: Be careful what you wish for.

Faith & the Family
"If torturing terrorists works -- as the Obama administration had to admit grudgingly [last] week -- is it okay? No, of course not, the chattering class proudly concluded. One wonders why. What do they care? Having already accepted abortion and euthanasia -- which are nothing more than the expedient killing of the unborn and the elderly -- why should the expedient torture of terrorists, a lesser evil, trouble them? Oh, that's right: the terrorists are guilty and the guilty under the ministrations of modern liberalism never suffer. Pain in modern life is for the innocent. Terrorists, we're told by pro-abortion liberals, suffer excruciating pain while the ejected unborn and euthanized elderly feel nothing. And even if the latter do suffer pain, say these liberals, that pain is worth it. After all, abortion and euthanasia sustain a pleasant and peaceful lifestyle for the strong. Let the dead bury the dead. ... Obama's liberalism is not an opponent of human rights abuses but an embodiment of them. The CIA restricts itself to methods far less ruthless than those permitted by the platform of the Democratic Party. When will Obama bring his own platform into line with the Geneva Accords? It is a little late in the day for Obama to worry about America's moral reputation. Resisting evil even 'when it is hard' hasn't interested liberalism for at least four decades. It rests on an ideology of expedient evil and crass utilitarianism." Catholic World Report editor George Neumayr

Perhaps Americans
ought to think about never electing as President someone not raised within the West? Ignorance of our Revolution, the French revolutions and the Terrors, of the foundations of our freedom and liberties, all are necessary to understanding our nation and national character and worldview. Perhaps if the media weren't so rabidly anti-the culture that gives them life and the freedom to pursue their adolescent "investigations" (only against the right, one notices), and perhaps if the Teachers' unions weren't so full of the least and the dimmest, America again could be great.

But not with adolescent people - of both parties - lacking a common understanding of our past and the worldview that shapes our future teaching in school and in the media.

But - a non-Western President? Obama won't even know who Defarge was. Nor will his staff. And, having googled her, they will not recognize the relevancy.

koolmuse
The elections are just beginning, we don't intend to lose again and those who harbor anti-Amerivan attitudes are also on a few lists. "Kool" huh!

Obama on memo controversy
"Present."

Hal the modern day Chamberlain
According to the actual interrogators this is simply not true. Remember it was the interrogators who waved the BS flag saying this is stupid, criminal and crazy.

Well, Hal, if this is the case why did Obama delete these testimonies?

By the way how many terrorists and their families have we turned into a fine bloody mist? Does this count?

“War is hell.” I might add a quote from Reagan “We maintain the peace through our strength; weakness only invites aggression." Therefore, take the hell to the enemy. Or, would you prefer more 9/11 war here?

"... Obama has learned..."

You mean like the failed Bush and conservatives did with the issues of god, guns and gays while they looted the nation and killed thousands? This same way do you mean? –

Hal, you’re getting desperate you make no sense.

As I said, Obama has learned from the worst despots in the world to demonize his opponents to further his goals.

"...They've all failed. Obama will too. But, the collateral damage is too great. Impeach him now."

He will be reelected in a landslide. What do you do then?

I have a greater faith in America than you. Obama came at a time when the far left fever against conservative America was at it’s zenith except for maybe the period of the Vietnam War. Aided by an inept Republican candidate he surfed his way into the hearts of every liberal. But, beware a wolf in sheep’s clothing. His response to different opinions is “The American people elected me.” He demands immediate signing of the stimulus bill then without anyone reading it and then takes off for the weekend in Chicago. Then he flies AF1 and Dopey Joe flies AF2 to Denver on a Wednesday to sign the bill. What’s his carbon footprint? Then on Earth day he burns 9,000 gallons of jet fuel. The man is a narcissist, like his role models quoted in my earlier writing. I’ll do my best to insure he’s never re-elected to anything including dog catcher.

I suppose if you can hold...
...the threat of imprisonment over the heads of your political opponents it would help keep the rabble in line.

And the Left accused the previous adminstration of being partisan.

Hal Donahue wrote:
"Date: Apr 27, 2009 - 10:49 AM EST
The Russian method: (We are wimps) ..."

"WOW see where it has gotten them? You recommend we follow that course?"

Hal, you don't think very capably. You should give it up. Take up knitting maybe?


Kooky Mouse's Mother Ain't Dead !

She works At The Mickey D's in Venice Beach !

She's Got a Tat on her Chest that says "Kooky Mom " !

What law?
Can someone (koolmuse, Hal, whomever) give us the citation (CFR, state penal code, etc.) to the U.S. (not moral, ethical, Biblical, Geneva Convention, UN or some other such) laws they claim were broken? Any such will have to pled in the indictment (which seems inevitable, given the kangaroo court mentality), so we might as well start preparing the defense now.

koolmuse 11:09
"jg:
I see no literate conservatives addressing me or otherwise on this site. I only see dipshyte morons like you."

Precisely.

Those who will not see, shall not see.

christianlib
What do you suspect the polls will reflect about Obama's popularity in a few months when inflation is going up rapidly and the poor working class guy is having a harder time feeding the family and the reality of the deficit and the subsequent large tax increases hit.

I suspect he will be reviled, cause right or wrong the President always receives the praise or the blame for the economy. and we all know "it's the economy stupid"

Mr. Barone writes:
"Appeasing the Madame Defarges may cost more than it is worth." Obama will take the risk and with good reason, he has the "state-run-media" to cover his backside.

Tea parties were great symbolisim but the revolution thing may be what is really needed. For the second time in our history we have an arrogant "King" who despises his subjects.

Call me a right-wing extremist...
but I think that, if push comes to shove, Bush should gather all of his associates at the ranch in Crawford, and those of us with any sense should help dig a moat and defend the place to the death (but only if Texas does not secede first, in which case we will stop them at the borders).

Cover Eyes, Cover Ears, Etc.
Barone says, "It doesn't seem to matter to our Madame Defarges that it's not clear that Bush officials violated any criminal law."

Uh, excuse me, Mr. Barone, It's the "Madame Defarges"---as you choose to call them---who are calling for INVESTIGATIONS to determine, through established LEGAL procedures, what wrongs were done and what punishment, if any, is merited. If you have a problem with that, you are providing yet another pathetic example of the conservative monkey disease---placing hands over eyes and ears when confronted with inconvenient information (or even the prospect thereof).


Spewing for the sake of being annoying
"This is THE basic problem with conservatives.
They believe everybody thinks like they do. They think everybody wants to steal money.
Because they do.
They think everybody want to kill people Because they do.
They think everybody should want a gun.
Because they do.
They think everybody's partisan because they are."

What kind of B.S. are you spewing. Every one of your statements is false. I haven't killed anyone that I know of but you are certainly tempting me. Frankly, I think think that the kool aid crowd should pack up and go home to mommy. She'll listen to your crapola whether she agrees or not. You disparately need recycling.

Ironically,
the trolls, by posting to TH, insure that the forum survives by adding to the count clicker at the top, which is the only yardstick used to attract advertisers.
If they were as smart as they insist they are, they'd avoid this place like the plague, instead of helping conservatives in supporting the site, even if they have no valid contributions to make.
Conservatives who take the time to think about trolls eventually end up ignoring them completely when they realize that any interaction with lefty scum is pointless and merely adds to their own stress level, and helps lefty scum feel validation when they manage to interrupt the grownups in their never-ending quest for attention.
Roadmaster, that's why I mentioned voting practices ;)

Hawkeye58
"Date: Apr 27, 2009 - 10:49 AM EST
The Russian method: (We are wimps) ..."

WOW see where it has gotten them? You recommend we follow that course?

Bleeding Heart Liberal
I was watching CNN talk back (?) the call in show the day after the picture of the dog piles
And other pictures were showing up on the new outlets.

A black guy called in and said that’s the same MFer that did the same thing to us at some prison in Virginia.

Thanks caller "click"

The Russian method: (We are wimps)
The men, decorated veterans of more than 40 tours of duty in Chechnya, said not only suspected rebels but also people close to them were systematically tracked, abducted, tortured and killed. Intelligence was often extracted by breaking their limbs with a hammer, administering electric shocks and forcing men to perform sexual acts on each other. The bodies were either buried in unmarked pits or pulverised.

Far from being the work of a few ruthless mavericks, such methods were widely used among special forces, the men said. They were backed by their superiors on the understanding that operations were to be carried out covertly and that any officers who were caught risked prosecution: the Russian government publicly condemns torture and extrajudicial killings and denies that its army committed war crimes in Chechnya.
Acts of blood-curdling brutality were committed by both sides as the rebels tried to turn Chechnya into an Islamic state, often decapitating Russian prisoners. One Russian victim was filmed being mutilated with a chainsaw.
“You have to be a certain kind of person to do this job - very strong,” Vladimir said. “Those who carried it out always volunteered. It would not be right to order one of your men to torture someone. It can be morally and psychologically very tough.”

“We are not murderers. We are officers engaged in a war against brutal terrorists who will stop at nothing, not even at killing children. They are animals and the only way to deal with them is to destroy them. There is no room for legal niceties in a war like this. Only those who were there can truly understand. I have no regrets. My conscience is clear.”


koolmuse
I agree that anyone that violates the law should be prosecuted.Obama breaks the law everyday by smoking on and in federal property.

No Difference
3,000+ Americans and others died in N.Y. City that’s some serious stuff folks.

Even Al Gore the planet hugger would have done his job and prosecuted the war on terror.

John Galt con,
you forgot the big "D" - Dhimmicrat!!!!

koolmuse & Hal showing off
"koolmuse & Hal Crucify NeoCon Posters
Jeeezus...this is fun...pathetic....frustrated, wrong and stupid.....dis-elected disgraced and humiliated..."

Son, you label yourself. The literate do not answer you because they know what you are.


koolmuse
I agree that anyone that violates the law should be prosecuted.Obama breaks the law everyday by smoking on and in federal property.

koolmuse
I agree that anyone that violates the law should be prosecuted.Obama breaks the law everyday by smoking on and in federal property.

gran
"Date: Apr 27, 2009 - 10:26 AM EST
Obama should be careful!
If he goes ahead with this idea of charging the Bush legal advisors, it may come back to haunt him when he's out of office when they go after him and his advisors."

So be it if they deliberately broke the law.

I'm confused, again
You righties seem to think the memos brand of interrogation is not torture and is a reasonable way to extract useful intelligence. We have Seven of our military heroes who are now languishing in prison for using similar procedures and following orders from CIA handlers and there has been no defense of these heroes.

You were there for the 2 border guards who shot the drug dealer while he was running away. Why aren't you standing up for the prison guards who are in jail for following orders?

Obama should be careful!
If he goes ahead with this idea of charging the Bush legal advisors, it may come back to haunt him when he's out of office when they go after him and his advisors.

REF JDs Handsome Son--OH--April 27, 09
I totally agree; Koolmuse, when you find a shoe that fits buy another just like it. What people lack in intelligence they usually make up for in stupidity. You must have taken great pains, you could not naturally have been born so very stupid.

Knife can cut
both ways. I realize most on the left can spin their guys bad behavior but it is a different thing in court. That guillotine doesn't care whose neck it cuts. If I was a lefty I would resist to urge for the pound of flesh, they may one day feel the knife.

Lon (PA)
FYI: Clinton lied under oath in a deposition where he was a defendant in a civil rights case involving sexual harassment of an employee.

Compare that with Scooter Libby who apparently simply couldn't remember verbatim a phone conversation which occurred years ago. Libby didn't even commit the "crime" that was being investigated.

Big difference when you look at the facts, Lon.

Clinton lied to the American people and to the court. Clinton admitted that he lied. If he'd been removed from office, it's quite possible Clinton would have stood before a criminal bench.

Once again,
the trolls prove that hindsight isn't necessarily 20/20.
Remember that a troll's mission is not to discuss and debate, merely to have a good time adding poop to the discussion, with the eventual goal of distracting thinking adults and hopefully ticking them off enough to destroy the forum.
They cannot be swayed, reasoned with or convinced to re-think (or even think about) their positions and will cling to their mindset like a pit bull in the ring.
They rationalize in a manner that will support their agenda, and no amount of evidence to the contrary will change that.
They will never believe that conservatives are any different than they are, and that the reason we hold the convictions we do have little to do with how we feel, but are reached through careful observation and weighing of facts vs. feelings.
It's evident that the majority (read; the mob) wants blood, and won't be satisfied with anything less.
But only if it's OUR blood.
When faced with articles which contradict their agenda, they deny, dismiss, distort, deride, disrupt and destroy.
Strange how their tactics and voting practices have one thing in common- they begin with the letter "D".

Where's the demand from the Left
to charge Obama with war crimes? There is already evidence that he has approved of air strikes in Afghanistan and Pakistan against high value targets in which innocent women and children have also been killed. If the war on terror is an illegal war, then is not Obama continuing that illegal war. He must be also charged with war crimes!

Where is the demand from the Left?

Huh
thinking that people who broke the law should be held responsible for their behavior is acting like Madame Defarge?

Just because the impeachment of Clinton was a hypocritical witchhunt does not mean that when there ae serious abuses of office they should be ignored. (That the impeachment of Clinton was hypocritical was made clear when the majority of congressmen who declared the charges against him to be serious offenses objected to the same charges against Scooter Libby on the grounds that they weren't serious offenses).

I think the problem on the right is that they can't imagine an attorney general not making decisions on a partisan basis, and so they assume that no one else can either.

There were objections to Obama ruling out the possibility of indictments since whether there are indictments should be based on the evidence. That is how a non-political justice department works. The conservative view that we are not a nation of laws when it comes to powerful people is not a healthy one. And it misunderstands America's principles.

There is nothing Madame Defarge about thinking that people who behave criminally should face consequences.

koolmoose
I agree koolmoose but why wait lets just prosecute the Bill Cliton,Jamie Gorelic and the rest for 9/11 the ones most responsible first!
and lets blame politicians for every Hurricane and put them in jail whenever one hits the USA

Halloween Tricks
What bothers me is how unfair it is to judge actions after the threat and emotions and fear is gone.

We were hit with a well thought out plan and no one knew how complex the threat was or how many other events had been planned.

I’ve seen security experts CBC/BBC from other countries poke fun at the U.S. interrogations practices.

They giggled at the poison insect in the box as some kind of Halloween trick.

We didn’t get hit again and that’s what counts.

Maybe GWB should have planned more attacks?

If GWB was going to plan an attack on the U.S
I think the U.N./ Hollywood/ and other leftist strong hold would’ve been targeted.

I’m not a GBW fan I think he is going to go down as the L.B.J/Jimmy Carter of the right.

koolmuse and hal
It's fun to listen to the two of you. Thank you for my morning entertainment.

Just for the sake of clarity, it's kind of hard to rationalize with irrational people. Their delusional thinking protects them from rational thought processes enabling them to continue through life in their bubble.

koolmuse
'Only conservatives murder policemen with guns.
That is generally true.'

'But the point here is that politically motivated murder....the conservatives have cornered the market on that....nearly 100%.'

Please provide some facts to back up these outrageous statements

koolmuse, the Kool-Aid Drinker
My, isn't koolmuse pleased with himself today.

His irrational hatred of the Bush Administration is beyond rebuttal. One cannot rebut that which is manufactured without a shred of thruth, but is believed unconditionally by the Kool-Aid drinkers of the left such as koolmuse.

He really should take his rantings to the Huffington Post or MoveOn.Org, where they will be much more appreciated.

Joel-De Oppresso Liber
"Date: Apr 27, 2009 - 9:42 AM EST
Next Administration
alicelouise wrote: "This administration would be wise to keep this in mind; turnabout is fair play. The next Republican administration may be pressured by their supporters to use the Obama precedent of criminalizing policy differences."

Torture has always been criminalized. This is not about policy differences this is clearly about crime and breaking laws. NO administration should ever be above the law.

"...alice, the current administration is taking steps to ensure that there will never again be a Republican President, or majority in Congress. If action is not taken soon, it may not be possible to recover our Nation by political means..."

Conservatism is bankrupt and now a failed philosophy. If the Republican Party survives they must take control back from the reactionaries. This is OUR nation all of ours under the Constitution.



koolmuse
"Date: Apr 27, 2009 - 9:21 AM EST
koolmuse & Hal Crucify NeoCon Posters
Jeeezus...this is fun...

Hal... they can't rationally answer a single post by you and I.
These people and their agenda are just pathetic.
Unfortunately frustrated, wrong and stupid.....dis-elected disgraced and humiliated... their name-calling will start soon."

LOL True but most know they are defending the indefensible. The crazies are just that like gunny, sad ineffective people trying to find meaning in their lives

koolmuse
Right on...only conservatives beat and kill their wives.

What do conservative wives do that can handle a pistol or shotgun? I can hardly wait to hear.

tgambogi
"Date: Apr 27, 2009 - 9:15 AM EST
I'm tortured... Have any of them lost their head like is done unto our people? For that matter have any of them lost any member of their body? Are they bruised? No, they're scared, scared so much they cough up valuable information that saves American lives..."

According to the actual interrogators this is simply not true. Remember it was the interrogators who waved the BS flag saying this is stupid, criminal and crazy. By the way how many terrorists and their families have we turned into a fine bloody mist? Does this count?

"... Obama has learned..."

You mean like the failed Bush and conservatives did with the issues of god, guns and gays while they looted the nation and killed thousands? This same way do you mean?

"...They've all failed. Obama will too. But, the collateral damage is too great. Impeach him now."

He will be reelected in a landslide. What do you do then?

..JamesB's Right..!
Just one part of the wet, stinking turd they're attempting to pick up are the very, very prominent Democrat(including Lib-Leftoids)in Congress who were fully in the loop. AND, at the time, were heard to say that worse oughtta be done. Can you say Plugs Biden?

Vengance was the topic...
of this article and arguments involving the economy and the mythical conservative support of the racist S. Africa were brought up. It has not even been established that laws were broken. The problem is that GWB was successful in fighting terrorism and the pinkos in this country do not like it. James Clyburn stated, "Military success is not good news for the Democrats." They wanted a military defeat overseas for political advantage at home. Since we were victorious in Iraq now they want to punish the people they see as responsible. Note that they said the individuals working on the advice would not be prosecuted. This means they believe they could prosecute ground level troops but have elected not to do so. I question whether these people will back off the avoid future prosecution thus rending us unsafe.

Liberals
are under the delusion that one can pick up a turd by the clean end

persecution of policy decisions
If we are attacked again and American citizens are killed can we prosecute the Obama administration for negligent homicide????? (besides Joe Biden who will get off for insanity)

The Trolls are out in force
I think I have to reread the column; there must be some truth in it for them to feel so threatened.

In reference to the article...
This administration would be wise to keep this in mind; turnabout is fair play. The next Republican administration may be pressured by their supporters to use the Obama precedent of criminalizing policy differences.




I'm tortured
I mean come on. Isn't it obivious this is a slight of hand to take our eye from the issues of the economy? Has any terrorist yes terrorst not "combatants" combatents are soldiers in a declared war. Have any of them lost their head like is done unto our people? For that matter have any of them lost any member of their body? Are they bruised? No, they're scared, scared so much they cough up valuable information that saves American lives. Obama has learned from the best Stalin, Mao, Hitler, and his new found friend Chavez to keep the populace focused on a demon even if you have yo make one up and then like a real demon destroy the population. They've all failed. Obama will too. But, the collateral damage is too great. Impeach him now.

Let the DeFarges call for their heads
And included in those who knowingly condoned the "torture"---why MS. PELOSI herself who for some reason can't remember anything that went on in those "intelligence " meetings.She can't remember ranting about even tougher measures to be used to get the information faster----you bunch of whining sissies want it both ways,keep me safe and I'll condemn you----Get me hurt and I'll condemn you---the liberal definition of truth---what ever is popular until it becomes unpopular---the great touchy-feely generation---useless idiots.

Koolmuse
Koolmuse, you seem very angry and emotional today. Perhaps you should go out an buy yourself some new shoes. That usually pleases male feminists in California.

Alice
"Date: Apr 27, 2009 - 8:50 AM EST
When and if we are attacked again,
Obama and his pals will own the attack. His lack of concern for our security is breathtaking..."

LOL However can you say this??? The failed Bush regime was unable to even secure our ports and borders.

"... And let's stop using the word "torture" - we are talking about making terrorist feel uncomfortbable..."

No we ARE talking about torture this is FACT not opinion

"...We are talking about people who enjoy chopping off heads and putting it on the internet. These people are sick ...."

So what? Does that affect how we are supposed to treat our fellow man?

Teachable Moments
There's a lesson to be learned by Obama and the GOP.

Obama's been trafficking so far on his packaging by the media and the idolatry of the stupid masses who believe he can actuall feed them with a loaf of bread and two fishes. But as always happens, the fog clears and the people see that he's just a man. And then they get mad.

Also, like anyone who knows anything about children, when a parent becomes a friend to little kids they overpower the adult, abuse the friendship, and eventually have to be corrected.

Obama will have to lead and a leader makes unpleasant choices that upset people. Even he can't please everyone all the time. He has to accept he is the leader and he will have to do so. He can't avoid it forever.

The GOP (Geldings on Parade)are beyond hope, but I'll try anyway.

Bullies exist because cowards also exist. The GOP will be forever terrorized and pushed around as long as they are supine and crawl the earth on their knees, bowing and scraping to their opponents, apologizing to all sorts of race pympps and other low life, and licking the boots of their tormentors hoping for leniency.

Never in history have cowards been given clemency. All animals despise the weak among them and kill them so as not to be slowed down.

What does the GOP have to lose anyway? They are already the lowest slime on the planet. Why can't they throw off the John McCain posture of bowing to their captors, stand erect and act like men?

Until they do they can expect nothing but humiliation, show trials, electoral defeats and other disgraces.

When and if we are attacked again,
Obama and his pals will own the attack. His lack of concern for our security is breathtaking. And let's stop using the word "torture" - we are talking about making terrorist feel uncomfortbable. We are talking about people who enjoy chopping off heads and putting it on the internet. These people are sick and Obama is sick.

OBAMA'S MEXICO TRIP & THE SWINE FLU
The White House issuing a statement about the swine flu assures us that: "It's not a time to panic." We can trust that Obama has everything under control and that panicking is unnecessary. To ease our fears Obama has instructed DHS Chief Napalitano to leave the borders with Mexico open and not test those who are returning. And if a pandemic should breakout because of this policy don't worry, don't panic, keep cool like Obama, for he will save the day by proposing a new stimulus spending bill to deal with it.

Click my name and read the rest of this piece

folks
"...The Madame Defarges of the Democratic left want to see the guillotine flash down and heads roll. Specifically, they want to see the prosecution or impeachment of officials who approved enhanced interrogation techniques -- torture, in their view..."

Nope we are against capital punishment remember. Also, water boarding is torture there is no in their view. This is settled case law. I can say gutting Barone like a fish is not murder but a public service - this does not make it so.

koolmuse RE: post #16
You obviously have no clue what goes on in the lives of domestic abusers. Pay attention to the context of the article you posted. His girlfriend was in the hospitol (goodness only knows how many times he's put her there). Like those looking for blood, you will overlook important details to try to make your point.

Abusers are dangerous to all those around them because they could have an angry outburst at any moment as was the case with this man. Yes I have experience with abusive relationships and made sure I understood what I was dealing with so I could help my friend who was caught in a relationship with an abuser. Go do some research on the subject and then come back and try to use this article as evidence for your point.

The only transparency I'm seeing
in the Hussein administration is the ease in seeing through Presidential proclamations. The ultimate chutzpah is a "truth commission." 1984 has arrived.

Off with her head!
Let us investigate Nnacy Pelosi. Obama will vote "present" on anything.

MADAM LEFARGE [MICHAEL BARONE]
SHE'S ALIVE AND WELL--AND I BECAME ACQUAINTED WITH HER MANY YEARS AGO IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. THAT'S WHY I LEFT IT!

Obama wants it!
He really does. It will carve up some Republicans and and ensnare some Democrats giving him great leverage over them. Then he can do what he wants with no opposition.

That's the Chicago Way.

I want a Truth Commission
...exploring Barney Fwanks, Chris Dodd, et.al. and how they destroyed the economy so they can institute Fascism.


Bring it on (part 1)
Well, what a conundrum our glorious leader has gotten himself into to celebrate his 'First 100 Days in Office'.

Now the ACLU has gotten photos from the Defense Department that were taken at facilities other than the infamous Abu Ghraib prison, showing that 'abuse of prisoners was widespread'.
More diversion from the outrageous spending (sans positive results), takeover of private industry and banks, the violence on the Mexican Border, and the blunderous Foreign Policy of the Obama administration?and let's not forget the string of gaffes that Janet Napolitano is making that gives our beloved Joe Biden a run for his money.
Now Nancy Pelosi wants to start a 'Truth Commission" into the interrogations and treatment of prisoners, but still can't seem to find the time to start the investigations into the Sub-Prime Mortgage Crisis, Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac, or the ethics probes into Christopher Dodd, D-CT (Countrywide) or Charlie Wrangel, D-NY (Tax Evasion), and now there's the reports coming out about the woman who replaced her on the House Intelligence Committee, Jane Harman, D-CA, for agreeing to work on behalf of two Israelis lobbyist suspected of espionage?nice.
I say bring it on.
Let's divide and polarize the nation to the point where the Liberals have their day in court, indicting everybody from George W. Bush on down the line so they have to actually present real evidence to back their claims instead of a continuous stream of half-truths, half-measures, and parsed statements that amount to nothing more than some incredulous headline for the newspapers or crack-potted accusations that have no real substance.

Bring it on (part 2)
My money is on none of that happening because they're getting a lot more mileage out of leaving these situations unresolved so that they can be brought up again and again.
After all, why risk losing good political capital if the American people are stupid enough to continue to buy it?
I'd say the Democrats need to clean their own house first before they start looking to 'bring justice' to the world, but what do I know?
What a great idea to release documents detailing 'the horrors of waterboarding' without releasing the information gleaned from it's use.
Do you think that maybe he should have never jeopardized our National Security by releasing the papers in the first place?
What another great idea it was to call the CIA together to assure them they had nothing to worry about because there would be no prosecutions of personnel over the release of the documents, then turn around THE NEXT DAY and say that the decision to prosecute would lie with his Attorney general, Eric Holder, who's given testimony before the Senate during his conformation hearings that he believes that waterboarding is torture?.Smooth Move, Ex-Lax.
"A man who tells a lie is merely hiding the truth; A man who tells a half-lie can't remember where he's put it."

NEED TO KNOW
Do We the People 'Need to Know' how We are being kept safe?
Clearly, the liberal left believes keeping our Country and it's citizens safe isn't even on their list of 'Things To Do'.
Sadly, We the People are 'Finding Out' on a daily basis 'why', We are no longer Safe, Independent or Free.



Turning back the calendar!!!!
Nazi Psychosi and her Lunatic Lobby are trying to get us to think it's 9/10/01 all over again. To them 9/11 happened in a vacuum.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Unless they plan to rule forever
Pelosi, Reed, O'Blahblah, et al., had better be careful about criminalizing policy disagreements.

royINOSLO
Sorry but you are automatically barred from any comments because you are from the corrupt election state.

Just be glad...
and thank God ... that the Dems were not running things on 9/11. At least we haven't seen an American city nuked or Saddam & Sons reclaim Kuwait and take over shipping in the gulf.
The Bush administration bought us some time. Let the Dems fiddle their ugly fiddle. What goes around comes around.

There he goes again
"If there is going to be a "truth commission" -- a title that is redolent of Stalinist purges... "

Considering the long record of conservative support for the white racist government in South Africa, you may not have noticed that a truth commission was convened in order to peacefully heal that country's wounds. Then there is less chance of "off with their heads".

The Madam Lafarge comparison might be valid if Obama had come to power after a bloody revolution. Thankfully, he didn't. His election by a majority of voters was a repudiation of Bush policies-- and a mandate to not cover up the crimes of a president and vice president.

The Lafarge and Stalin comparisons are really a lazy tactic from a writer who is presumably paid for his work. Or one who can't distinguish the difference between our remarkable system and those of totalitarian regimes.

Give it up!


The kweers control the country now, and we are doomed.

Weaken national defense
If they weaken national defense enough, they may take more than your money from you.

Who Signed It?
Where did they come up with those 250,000 signatures and as quick as they did? If they are going to show some of the memorandums then show all of them pertaining to how lives were saved by the methods used. Transparency? Yeah, right.

Go for it...
Can I take the Democrats to court for stealing my money?
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