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Saturday, January 17, 2009
Michael Barone :: Townhall.com Columnist
Is a Change in Migration Patterns at Hand?
by Michael Barone
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Evidence keeps accumulating that the tide of immigration is ebbing. Tough enforcement laws passed by states like Arizona and Oklahoma and localities like Prince William County, Va., have reportedly spurred Latino immigrants to move elsewhere. Tougher enforcement of federal immigration laws may be having the same effect.

Classrooms in Orange County, Calif., are suddenly half-empty. Latino day laborers seem to be less thick on the ground at their morning gathering places. Remittances to Mexico and other Latin countries are down, and men are returning to some villages from the United States.

Latinos appear to account for a disproportionate share of mortgage foreclosures. The Census Bureau estimates that net immigration in 2007-08 was 14 percent lower than the average for 2000-07, and those estimates don't cover the period after June 30, when the recession really started hitting.

Demographic forecasters tend to assume that the long-term future will look a lot like the short-term past. That's why the Census Bureau estimates that there will be more than 100 million people classifying themselves as Hispanics in 2050, compared to 45 million today. But history tells us that trend lines don't go on forever. Sometimes they turn around and go downward.

We have had major Latino immigration now throughout the 25 years since the economic recovery of the early 1980s. But I think there is a possibility -- not a certainty, probably not a likelihood, but a serious possibility -- that we may be at an inflection point, at the beginning of a period in which Latino immigration will be substantially lower than it has been the past quarter-century.

We have seen such inflection points in migration before. When Leonard Bernstein wrote "West Side Story" in the 1950s, it seemed that the flow of Puerto Ricans to New York City would continue indefinitely. But in fact net migration from Puerto Rico dropped to just about zero in 1961, when average incomes on the island were about one-third the level of the mainland United States. The huge flow of blacks from the South to the North, which started in 1940 due to the labor demands of war industry and the invention of the mechanical cotton-picker, seemed likely in 1960 to continue on and on. But it stopped suddenly in 1965, the year the Voting Rights Act passed, and today there is a small net migration of blacks from North to South.

Economics plays some role in this. The apparent downturn in immigration in the past 18 months is surely not unrelated to the recession that began, the National Bureau of Economic Research now tells us, in December 2007. The gaming industry in Las Vegas -- then and for most of the preceding 20 years the nation's fastest-growing metro area -- started declining in 2007, and net immigration to Nevada was down 16 percent in 2007-08 from the 2000-07 levels. And reports are coming in of Latinos leaving town as construction of giant hotels on the Strip is shut down by foreclosure.

But immigration is not just about economics. People move, I have come to think, in pursuit of dreams -- or to escape nightmares. One of those dreams -- home ownership in America -- now seems much less attainable than it did just six months ago, with thousands of foreclosures and with subprime loans to low-income buyers presumably a thing of the past. Meanwhile, birth rates in Mexico and much of Latin America took a sharp turn downward around 1990, which means that those entering the workforce there in years hence will have less competition for jobs -- fewer nightmares.

George W. Bush has said that one of his regrets is that he was not successful in getting Congress to pass a comprehensive immigration law, with legalization, guest-worker and enforcement provisions. If Barack Obama and congressional Democrats seek such legislation, they should keep in mind the possibility that the situation they are addressing may be changing. So should those who oppose such a law.

Since Congress considered and failed to pass a comprehensive law in 2006 and 2007, we have learned that tougher enforcement of existing law is possible and can reduce illegal immigration. Now we face a sharply different economic situation, which is presumably less conducive to immigration. This may make the need for a comprehensive law less pressing and at the same time make it politically more palatable.

Our history is one of great surges of migration, immigrant and internal, which begin without much in the way of warning and which end unexpectedly. It's possible -- not certain, maybe not likely, but possible -- that we're witnessing the beginning of one of those endpoints now.

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About The Author
Michael Barone is a Fox News Channel contributor and co-author of The Almanac of American Politics. He is Senior Political Analyst for the Washington Examiner and a Resident Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, a Fox News Channel contributor and co-author of The Almanac of American Politics.
 
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Anythng that will keep the US
pub. schools from forcing all students to learn Spn. as a requirement for being an Am. citizen can't be all bad.

Change in Illegal Immigration Patterns?
Any change is temporary and only because these blood-sucking vermin's blood supply has slowed to a trickle. BUT, they'll be back in droves as soon as the economy shows any sign of recovering. Secure the borders is still security job #1 and amnesty is still a very bad idea.

Our borders north and south should have been secured within a year of 9/11 even if it meant stationing troops along the border while they built the fence; troops that should not have been sent to Iraq. Politicians are, once again, irresponsibly not taking the measures necessary to deal with real, demonstrated threats. Fire their sorry carcasses!

The democrats are itching to give amnesty to all the riff-raff, scofflaw, illegal aliens in the country knowing that they will be a source of votes for generations to come. And with that demographics’ bent on a minimum of four kids per family, it will become a majority quickly, a majority that have a strong socialistic mindset, a propensity for the handout, and a desire not to integrate or embrace the ways of the adopted nation but to foist their culture and third world mentality on others.

The article mentions that a disproportionated number of foreclosures are due to illegals. Why were they allowed to even settle here?!? Very lax verification is one reason; the other is frequent falsification of legal documentation by the criminal element.

jobs
Jobs, jobs, we ain't got no stinkin jobs.

Watch the influx of illegal immigration mysteriously reappear when the recovery package includes a lot of construction projects.

"Change in Migration"
The only decade in the 20th century which saw so-called "outward migration"-people moving from the US back to where they came--was in the 1930s. Why? The Great Depression--thus far the deepest economic depression in the history of the US. In 2008 we are afflicted with, if not a full-fledged depression, certainly with the deepest recession in our history. Since history DOES repeat itself at times, we may be seeing a repeat of a migration phenomenon which, heretofore at least, had been unique only to the 1930s.

Give the Southwest back to Mexico
The immigration pattern will change when we give the Southwest back to Mexico. The immigrates won’t have to walk so for to get to Chicago. Read it at, http://stopthepresses2.blogspot.com/2009/01/must-replace-r ichardson-with-hispanic.html

Illegal Alien Invasion
They will be back. Most are probably still here, keeping a low profile. Fox news reported that good ole Fanny Mae issued at least 5 million mortgages to illegal aliens. No check, no nothin'. Those houses ought to be confiscated, sold, and the money put back into the bank to pay taxpayers.

Thank goodness President Bush did not get his amnesty. It is up to us to hammer our reps and senators on the issue so Obama won't get his amnesty which will be worse. We need the national and state guards, and even the army and marines on our borders to keep the illegal alien riff-raff out, particularly the drug runners. We need to close the borders. Mexicans going south can leave, but not return. Americans may not go south, only north. American businesses, buck up and become Americans again. Mexican citizens need to stay in their own country and CHANGE it if they don't like drug cartels or elites as the only Mexicans who profit from business. When your army, navy (such as it is), police, and politicians are all on the take, then it is past time to take action. Just keep your problems to yourselves and don't come here.
I wish our wishy-washy Republicans would enact some stiff border laws here in Texas.

Illegal
What is that you still don't understand about the term "illegal"

I look for the Dims
and Ovomit to pass blanket amnesty for all illegals now in our country and make it easier for new aliens to Sign In.

A good article but it fails to mention that one of the things that keep them here is free everything.

Don't Hold Your Breath!!!!!
I live close to the border and they just keep coming!! You won't have to worry about it just being a trickle! The are coming and they will keep coming!!! Even with our economy in trouble, the abject poverty in Mexico is pathetic. They come in wherever and whenever there might be a chance of work, a handout, sanctuary in a church or by staying with relatives and friends. They wait until they can spread out and head out. Until we have a firmer handle on this mess, we will not see the numbers go down by any stretch of the imagination. We are a cash cow waiting to be milked!! E-Verify would help to ensure that jobs go to citizens not to illegals with forged papers.

This is a column giving misinformation IMO.

How many
illegal aliens will return to Mexico and Arabia when the 2014 ice age locks in?

Illegal aliens
I believe that we should bring home all our soldiers and equipment from FDR’s War. I was one of them during 1965 – the year of the 20-year anniversary of the liberation of the Dachau concentration camp. Do this before they are surrounded by the Muslims that are overrunning Britain, Germany, and France, trying to take control.

Once they are home, have the infantry round-up and deport the millions of illegal aliens. Have our tanks and helicopters patrol our borders, firing on the Mexican army trucks that escort drug smugglers’ trucks over the border and shoot at our Border Patrol people. Have the Army Engineers build the wall along our border. This guarantees quality in design and workmanship. Fund this entire project with the billions of dollars presently paid out to protect Germany from the Soviets.

Deporting the illegal aliens would save us many billions of dollars, greatly reduce crime, (There are possibly 20 million criminals.) and make our taxpayer-financed healthcare and other services available to American citizens.

Patrick
There really is such an organization and it's headquarters is in Del-Rio, Texas.

I saw that in a paper while i was in Laughlin,NV. about 10yrs. ago.

No to Amnesty
Illegal aliens are a huge net negative (see Heritage) on the American economy. The numbers of illegals may be dropping but even a modest amount of poison is never a good thing. If the federal voting bloc is tipped by benefits-seeking hispanics, who will vote socialist/progressive for the next 20-30 years, middle class Americans will lose control of the US politically, economically and culturally. BHO and his socialist cronies (look past the ruse) are sizing up Americans right now to see if they are stupid enough to fall into the trap of illegal drivers' license, free healthcare and education and amnesty.

It's the economy stupid !!!!
The huge boom in mexican immigration was due to the Housing Bubble. Who do you think built and remodelled all those houses financed by subprime mortgages? Illegal Aliens, that's who. Now that construction work has dried up there are a lot of unemployed mexicans returning home. But it won't last. There is a recent military report linked on Drudge that Mexico could actually collapse. If that happens, we will see a flood like never before and might have to send in the Army to annex Mexico.

Latinos are migratory?
Latinos are migratory, like animals? Hmmm, could be some truth to that but also, once in the US, they tend to have mucho many babies, evade income tax, use fake ID's, commit social security fraud, etc. I don't know many animals that do such things.

Once here, they don't go home to their great Mexico, althoug they talk about it 24/7/365 - how they love and long for Meh-hee-co.

Interesting. Deportation is the ONLY solution. Everything else is just whistling past the cemetary.

Nothing is going to happen
With Politician's like Harry (airhead) Reid trying to sneak in amnesty in a closed session, nothing will change. Are Economy and Finacial Problems are due to the Illegal's. What is it that our Politicans don't get. We The People pay them and 86% of American's want to get rid of illegals , plus we want to drill for our own oil. The illegal's are destroying our land, schools, medical and welfare system at OUR expense. I want to put our troops on the border now, to shoot at drug runners and drug cartels. We can stop this if our military is at border. They should of been put at the border 9/11, 2001. Why should help protect foreign countries and they won't protect ours. We have nothing but a bunch of worthless cowards in Washington, that only care about what Lobby and Special Interest want and what they pay to them under the table. Wake up America, it is time to take our country back from these worthless airheads and put Patriotic American's who aren't afraid of getting their hands dirty to clean up the mess we are in.

Mexican migratory patterns........
Mexicans (except for the ruling class of 10% which are white latinos - descendents of the Spainish) are by and large, "North American Indians" and wandering/migrating is part of their nature. Same holds true for Central Americans. That's one reason why American Indians never built any organized, technological, modern society.



“not certain, maybe not likely, but ...
It's its also possible “-- not certain, maybe not likely, but possible …” that there are “experts” who know the demographics of every congressional district in the country, but otherwise don’t know their head from a hot rock.

(1) That stricter law enforcement is lowering illegal immigration sure is interesting if you consider that about every open-border apologist you meet claims that “no-matter what we do, they will keep coming (Meaning: Don’t try).”

(2) How sad and shameful that states have had to take the lead to reduce illegal immigration--criticized all the way by illegal immigration apologists--while their federal government has been traitorously pro open border.

(3) As far as past migration waves ending, Ireland, say, does not sit on our border and have a much higher birth rate.

(4) If third-world immigration has ebbed for a time--not stopped, but only less staggeringly high--the birth rates already imported into the U.S. mean the future demographic dye already has been cast: a vastly overpopulated third-world America.

(5) This whole hilarious article--“not certain, maybe not likely, but possible …”--was obviously a buildup to Barone’s concluding proposition: “This may make the need for a comprehensive law less pressing and at the same time make it politically more palatable.” In other words: another amnesty. Jesus, these open-border people never ever give up, even during times of sky-high unemployment. Their message to unemployed Americans: Let them eat cake!

Thomas Andres
Sierra foothills

We already have immigration laws
that are quite good if only they were enforced.

We do not hold politicians responsible for acts that are unconstitutional or criminal.
We excuse many criminal acts by citizens because they are unfortunate victims of big bad American society.
We do not deport illegal immigrants even after they have committed other crimes.

Why pass more laws, we do not uphold the laws that have worked for generations?

Without law and order we decend into chaos, that is evident in the news everday now but we can only wait and watch it happen.

Our leaders are at best wimps who want to hold onto power and often treasonous criminals.

Not Going To Happen
People leave the country of their birth to seek a better life, then the one they have to look forward to, in the country of their birth. As long as they are able to live a better life somewhere else, then where they are at now, they will continue to seek that better life, wherever it is. If say the citizens of Mexico can achieve that goal by coming to the United States, they will come to the United States, legally or illegally. You can make it much harder for them to come to this country illegally, but you cannot stop all of them from coming.

Hmmmm...
a few factors left out. Such as the eventual collapse of Mexico. That military report was pretty much a no brainer. The drug wars in Mexico should tell the people of this country, as well as the politicians something. Of particular note is the beheadings...thank you Muslim terrorists.

Economics, not only plays a roll, but is the deciding factor. Mr. Barone...most dreams are built around economics in one form or another. Whether illegal immigration is based upon government freebies or just jobs, it is still economics.

In 2010, California will have yet another initiative on the ballot about the give away of government goodies. In these economic times, coupled with the budget problems, look to see that initiative pass. Also look to see once again it get overturned by judges. There is just no getting around the lower standards of living of illegal immigrants, thus making it easy to underbid wages in the employment arena. Let's face it, poor in this country is much better than poor in any other country.

The Golden state has now become the fascist state.

BTW...take note one of the biggest problems of illegal immigration is lack of assimilation, hence the reason as one poster noted, we end up learning Spanish instead of them learning English. These feel good policies of catering to immigrants are tearing this country apart, and we do the immigrants no favor either with this. We have become a nation of feel good weaklings. Some tough love is in order.

I would like
to add one more thing. To immigrate here legally is a step into the world of nonsense and insanity. While I am all for closing the border, we also need to make our immigration policies less expensive and more stream lined.

Let me give you an example.

My niece is marrying a young man from GB. After thousands of dollars, multiple trips to the consulate in GB, he will get his visa to come here and marry. According to immigration laws they have three months to the day to marry. They must have some type of wedding, complete with pictures of family members attending, including his family. However another immigration law on the books says his family is prohibited from visiting for the first six months of their marriage. Yet another stupid law is he is also prohibited from working for one year!

I think you understand where I am going with this. The immigration laws are over bloated nonsense and typical big government where left hand has no clue what the right hand is doing.

No wonder people come here illegally.

In L A County,Ca.=10,000,000 people
Illegals:
40% - work for cash=no taxes
95% - of all murder warrants
75% - of most wanted
67% - of births
35% - of inmates
300,000 live in garages
60% - live in hud properties
------------------------------
In our country, 29% are on welfare.


Immigration Decline
Mr. Barone, very interesting article, but you also need to be aware that crime is increasing along the border between Mexico and the US because of the drug wars in Mexico. They are spilling over into the US and endangering people who live on or near the border.

As a part time resident of Arizona, I'm amazed at what we don't hear up north regarding border problems. I-10 in border states is not as popular of a route because of it's proximity to the border and/or accessibility by "coyotes" who are smuggling drugs or people. We will not drive I-10 between Tucson and Phoenix at night because of shoot outs there between Coyotes and coyotes and between Coyotes and the border patrol. Innoccent by-standers have been caught in the cross firer.

Lifeline

Mr Barone,
Did you think these people would stick around during the tough times? Once the gravy stops flowing?

The reason that any comparison to past migrations from Europe fails to make sense is because these people can go back home overnight if they so choose. Even those who are here legally hold dual-citizenship. And most would rather collect Social Security retirement in MX, where it allows them to live comfortably.

The Irish, a contrary example, when once off the 'coffin ships' (and more than 30% did not survive the trip across the Atlantic) were not about to head home if they couldn't make a mortgage payment or find a good job. In contrast, the recent Latin immigrants, as a group, have little committment to America beyond their immediate needs -- health, work, education. They are, by comparison, thieves. And any US corporation or governmental agency which abets them should be dismantled.

Importing 130,000 / month......
The USA needs an immigration "time-out" for about ten years to "re-balance" the scales of common sense.

Too many people around the world (falsely) believe they have a God-given right to "migrate" to the United States. That is wrong but one can't blame them since our government has fostered this belief for decades now. They falsely believe Americans are all immigrants or that the USA is a "nation of immigrants" - both either completely wrong or half-truths.

With unemployment expected to reach 10% in late '09, why are we importing about 130,000 per month?

Tradional Migrants
BETwyan, you make an interesting point, which brought back to me some information I gained from "Mexico" by James A. Michener. The author writes that many of the ancestors of the Mexican people actually did migrate to Mexico over centuries from North America and as you say they were more like gypsies than nation builders. I believe that public officials do need to consider such historical data when developing policy involving Mexico and immigration. The study of, and knowledge of, history is vital in developing sound national and international policies. Political correctness is likely to skew policies and the more we understand about the origins of peoples and tribes the better off we are in creating sound policies.

Dream On, Barone
The illegal aliens are laying low. They're not returning to their hellholes, unfortunately. Why would they? Their anchor babies insure that all their needs are taken care her in the US.

The problem is the illegals are the dregs of their society in their home countries. They are uneducated, illiterate and probably have borderline normal intelligence. They have absolutely nothing to offer the US except the ability to do manual work that does not require thinking or problem solving. This may be harsh but they are true parasites and will kill their host.

Good posts--
Many good posts on this thread. Suzanne had an excellent post. Yes inforce the laws, put troops on the border, get rid of pandering politicians and amnesty supporters and whiners.

Good Ideas
Many good ideas expressed in posts today.

Unfortunately, if none of the border protections could be put in place with Repukes in power, we're really wasting our breath if we think the Dims will do anything.

Our government, regardless of party control, is no longer an honest one and is also completely dysfunctional. After public pressure they promised to build the security fence and here we are, two years later, and no fence and there never will be one. It will take groups like the Minutemen (whom we never hear mention of anymore) to safeguard the border filling the vacuum arising from government's direlection of duty.

"Immigration"?
Why do so many intelligent people call illegally entering the USA "immigration"?

I call it a criminal act as defined in Title 18 United States Code. For those in Rio Linda, that's the basic FEDERAL criminal statute that provides criminal penalties for entering the USA without checking in with ICE first.

Look it up, Micheal Barone. Read and learn what the LAW is in your country.

Illegal aliens
There is a little problem here ,more Americans are losing their jobs every day , but there seams to be more illegal aliens still working.How will the fake of a President protect the people,he will not because that is what the Dems want.


START A REVOLUTION.....!!!!!!!

illegals
Mr. Barone forgot to address one angle to this topic: voting behavior. Illegals will continue to come here and the Dems will, repeat, will award them amnesty soon so that they will vote Dem and we will have a one-party system. Simple as that. Mr. Barone tends to be a little too Washingtonian and not real world. And economics does not matter to illegals because as long as they receive entitlements they are fine. And as long as they continue to over-populate the SW, they will gain more cultural and political power much to the detriment of the US.

Mexico in the US
I am originally from california, and I can tell you that much of the latino population is American born. And not, baby anchors. California voted to be a state in the late 1800's and many of those people were of Mexican decent. Now after saying that, I must tell you that the third world culture that is coming in today. May not be the best thing to melt into the melting pot. At least not in such vast numbers. The culture clash is worse than many would let you believe. Look adding salt to your soup is okay tell you add to much. Filling in jobs is okay until you start taking them away. A working legal system is what we and immigrants need. These people are living in some alternate america were they must break the laws to live. If you invite a guest to stay at your home. Isn't it okay if he goes into your refrigerator and gets something to eat. But if you come home and some stranger is in your refrigerator. You call the cops right. But guess what the cops don't care, the government don't care, and your the bad guy.

I am a thirty one year old father of four young children. And I want my children to be prepared for the world ahead of them. I try my best to show a good example to my children. Unlike the US government. Imagine the example our government sets to its neighbors, businesses, people, and the world. And I personally it's been rubbing off on many people for some time now. It starts from the top and works it's way down. The Roman Empire (USA) may fall once again folks.

Barone, you get off to
a decent start once in a while, but invariably fade off into mush. Times are getting tough here, so immigration is becoming less attractive? No shlt?? I'd a never guessed it. And SURPRISE!!!! when federal immigration laws which have worked for 200 years when enforced, ARE enforced again, they work again. I'm shocked, shocked i tell you. And when Arizone chucks aliens into jail for smuggling (themselves) instead of returning them to the border for another try, they go someplace else. You Twit. A couple dozen folks have been predicting this for a couple years. Sheesh!!

SEIZE THEIR PROPERTY
The likes of Pelosi, Reid, McCain and Kennedy have stolen $billions from American taxpayers to give to illegal aliens. It's time to seize their property and hold a tax sale........proceeds to go to the American taxpayer.

CHAIN GANG 'EM
Move some of the millions of illegal aliens that are clogging our prisons and costing us $billions to Texas. Chain gang them and make them build the fence. If they refuse, don't feed them. If they escape to the south, hasta la vista, baby. If they escape to the north, double chain them and start over.

The countrywill change allright
The fall of Mexico preplanned? The North American Union and New World Order is still on the agenda....Henry Kissinger just wrote a column about it. Unfortunately the elite will decided our fate whether we like it or not!

BillinOrlando
Excellent 2 posts. My thoughts exactly. Also chain gang the politicians who enable the illegals.

Cut to the Chase

Everyone who has posted here about the border fence and enforcing the law is correct.

It's NOT about immigration. We have sufficient IMMIGRATION laws already.

It is purely and simply a law enforcement problem (our state and federal governments won't enforce the law).

The Democrats kept calling it an "immigration problem" which is a straw man argument. They did this because they don't want to be seen as anti-law enforcement and they wanted another "minority" group as a voting block for the Socialist-Democrat Party.

It worked, unfortunately. The MSM kept up the mantra of "immigration" so that now even Bill O'Reilly calls them "immigrants".

The illegals are no more immigrants than I was when I used to drive a truck into Canada to pick up and deliver freight. They have no more intention of becoming Americans than I had of becoming a Canadian.

This column
It's good to see nobody is buying this garbage. It's time to take our party back from these so called smart people. Micheal Barone,Medved, and their kind are the ones who gave us John McCain. If it were left up to these stalwarts we would still be saying long live the king! Enough If the republican party wont stand for American citizens and the constitution then it's time for a sping cleaning. Lets start early.

Origanalist

Origanalist wrote, "Micheal Barone,Medved, and their kind are the ones who gave us John McCain."

Correct! The blue-blood country club Republicans (aka liberals) did give us a RINO instead of a conservative. The main-stream Republicans didn't want a RINO, so a significant number voted for someone else or simply stayed home.

Now we have a socialist in the White House, essentially by default. Obama wouldn't have been elected if the Republicans had nominated a conservative.

points to ponder
Is this an argument in favor of maintaining a pathetic economy in perpetuity here in our Beloved Republic so as to remove the financial appeal that draw illegals to our shores?

Some would say it is a small price to pay.

I can't quite go there.

Actually, one or two posters touched on recent articles highlighting the real fear among our intelligence community that Mexico is on verge of unraveling.

If that were to occur, the United States would suddenly find itself with an extra 70 million or so "new inhabitants".

But at least the quality of Mexican cuisine served in our Beloved Republic would certainly improve.

But there would be more crime.

Darn it. There is always a downside to everything.


Fix the Economy
Just ship the illegals back to where they came from. E Verify ALL jobs and make sure that ONLY citizens get work here. End all mortgages given to illegal aliens. No more education for illegals, especially those who cross the southern border everyday for schoola and NO MORE spanish speaking teachers! Stop all welfare for illegals, including food stamps etc. No more H1B workers. Empty the prisons and dump them back where they came from. No more FREE health care for illegals. We CAN have a sudden turnaround of the economic picture we have been faced with. FAIR has done numerous studies on the dollar cost of illegal and legal immigration. We need to feed OUR citizens first and see to it that OUR children are not paying for the cheap labor wanted by our international corporations down the road.
American citizens would not be having this depression if WE had the jobs and stopped paying for leeches. Spend one day at your local classroom. Spend the next day at your local court. Then start visiting businesses that hire illegals and call ICE.

There is more than one reason that in a recession with higher unemployment, gun and ammunition sales have risen 50% when all other sales have dropped. Do you think we are all preparing to hunt rabbits?

YOU can do something NOW. Don't wait until it is too late.

The Good Times Are Not Coming Back
The US economy circa 1995-2008 was a fantasy. Driven mostly by a)A Demographic Bubble and b)Cheap money, a huge consumption based economy evolved. This evolution occured around 3 Bubbles: one in stocks (high tech -1995-2000), another in real estate (2003-2007), the final around commodities (2007-2008).

The Baby Boomers, as a group, have been the wealthiest demographic group since 1985. They hit thier peak earning years around 1994-2006. In 1995, they first began worrying about retirement, and began to pour trillions into the stock market. Greenspan hard key interest rate cuts in 1996 and 1997, and Congress lead a key cut in Capital Gains tax in 1998. By 1999, Greenspan began to increase interest rates again, and the overheated Tech Bubble crashed in 2000. The Fed, for a short time, enyjoyed huge windfalls in dividend revenues and ran a surplus from 1998-2000.

In the aftermath of the 2000-2001 stock market collapse and 9/11, Greenspan once again slashed short term interest rates in 2002-2005. Investors immediatley found a new font of wealth via the mortgage securities/hedge fund markets. Fueled by Fannie Mae/Freddy Mac backed mortgages, both domestic and foreign investors poured trillions into real estate. And for three years, they and consumers alike fed at the trough of the real estate bubbble. Homeowners cashed in over $6 trillion of home equities. Consumption hit a peak in 2006.

With the Boomers now reaching thier retirement years much poorer than in 2006, and falling real estate and stock prices, it will take a decade to get back to some sembalance of wealth creation. But $50 trillion in under funded Social Security and pension liabilities will be a road block.

Illegals and the Economy 1995-2008
Illegals were a huge source of wealth creation for this nation. They earned less than 25% of legal workers, had no fixed costs as far as benefits and social security with-holdings were concerned. They allowed businesses as diverse as construction to nursing homes reap huge improvements in thier bottom line. The stockholders were the big winners. The big losers were the blue collar working poor, and the taxpayers.

Much of the productivity gains US companies saw in the last 20 years came about because of 2 things a)Outsourcing labor to foreign lands, and b)illegal immigration. The US reaped financial rewards witout doing any labor. Like the real estate bubble, this wealth creation was a chimera. There were no "real" productivty gains, but a massive lowering in the wage scale.


Really just migration...
not immigration -- and certainly not "illegal" from their point of view.

These people are following human nature. They want to improve their lives so they head "norte". They care as much about our "laws" as a caribou cares about crossing state lines.

I understand the indignance, fear and outrage if your sitting here in the land of milk and honey thinking you'll have less for yourself.

But ,like water, it ain't gonna stop flowing this direction unless you either build a dam -- or make Mexico a better lake to live in.

B. Hussein Obama is an usurper
B. Hussein Obama is an usurper, a pretender to the Presidency. His candidacy was illegitimate, his election illegal and his Presidency will be a fraud and a hoax on the American people and our Constitution.

Presidents must be at least 35 years of age, resident for at least 14 years and a natural born citizen. Obama meets the age and residency requirements but is he a natural born citizen under the Constitution?

A natural born citizen is a person born in America to American parents (plural). Obama claims to be Hawaiian, but absent an official birth certificate, we cannot know for sure. His mother appears to have been an American citizen. However, Obama has written that his father was a Kenyan subject to the British Crown but never an American.

This “Constitutional scholar” should know he cannot take the oath of office without perjuring himself. So anxious were they to stick the first-black-president feather in their party’s cap that the Democrats failed to be Americans and put our Constitution first by thoroughly vetting their candidate.

Well, they have gotten their wish but at the price of creating a Constitutional crises that, if unresolved, will indeed render the Great Parchment nothing more than, in the words of Obama’s predecessor, George W. Bush, “just a goddamn piece of paper.”

Heroin and cocaine
I support increased border control. In addition to the huge costs of illegal immigration, I add the cost of addiction. The United States is the largest world market for heroin and cocaine.

If we improve border security, less drugs get through. The Mexican gangs that spread the poison, add danger and violence to our communities.

Sure, adddicts will turn to other drugs, but I believe the violence cocaine and heroin bring to our communites warrants a massisve effort to stop their entry into our country.

If you support my cause, I would appreciate a visit to our website: http://www.DrugAwarenessAndPrevention.org

Tom, stop
This man, especially in light of what we've just had for the past eight horror-filled years, is not only fit to be our President, he is..

our best hope, and our only hope.

You can sit in your basement if you want. But you are either going to be part of the problem -- or part of the solution.

Your choice.

Oh, and...

PS - When you people emphasize the name "Hussien" -- are we supposed to be put off by that? You should know we actually get a big kick out of the type of people who would assume that "Walker" is just a far better name than "Hussien". Tells us alot about you. You might want to mention that to your friends.


you can bet
that the illegals who are comfortably enrolled in the welfare system with their illegal anchor babies are not going anywhere. the damage is already done. that is the bush legacy.

Immigration from within and outside
Barone has a good notion on potential changes in the future. One also sees internal migration patterns where people decide to move into sunnier and warmer climates. And there are the entrepreneurs who go to states with lower taxes and regulation so they can live the American dream with less hassle.


I myself will likely move to Santa Fe, New Mexico in four to five years. For me, I like hiking, skiing, and the outdoors. That area is closer to things I prefer compared to the ultra crowded Washington Metro area. And some people go to be near their children or grandchildren in retirement. So demographics can be altered appreciably over small periods of time.

William
Waay back in 1988 the NYTs and WaPost made a big deal of Dan Quayle's name (Danial Danforth Quayle). They opined that his name was too elite, too WASPISH (ie white), too rich. For months, we heard nothing but sniggering from the likes of pundits, comedians,and late night talk show hosts who did nothing but make fun of the name of the "Cracker" from Hunington.

Now these very same people cry foul when conservatives use the same methods and logic concerning our President-elect.

But Will Bush Pardon Campeon & Ramos?
Doubt it, the coward. Watch him get money for his presidential library from Mexican "businessmen". Ha! What a hypocrite, what a liar.

Gay Conservative, I'm coming with you!
Ha, just kidding, but you're right about the DC Metro area. The more crowded it gets, the less the Great Outdoors is available. That is a kind of pressure valve for people. Ever notice that "high density" just results in crazier drivers, rudeness and more Type A's?

I love New Mexico. It really is beautiful and lives up to its moniker...land of enchantment. Only thing, how is the mountain biking? Just too bad Richardson is gov.

William
Obama is our best hope? Now THAT'S funny. I don't need him. I don't want him. In fact, our best hope for the future success of the US are successful terrorist attacks on DC, NYC, and LA.

Please, stay in California, America's septic tank.

Hussein -- No "foul", just silly
My very point is that no one's crying "foul" over using "Hussein."

If, for some odd reason, you prefer calling people by their middle names. Go right ahead.

What's laughable is the tacit belief of Ann Coulter and more than a few posters here on TH who think We The People are, in this day and age, supposed to recoil in some kind of aural horror upon hearing "Hussien." As if we will instantly conjur images of a towel-headed terrorist and be jolted back to our WASPy senses, running back down to the voting polls screaming "No wait! We changed our mind!"

Hysterical.

Look, to make it easy for y'all, back on November 4th modern, every day real America showed we are perfectly fine with having a President whose middle name is "Hussien".

Not scary at all. The real disaster would have been another go round with someone named "Walker". Now THAT's scary.

Ahh - the terrorist speaks
" In fact, our best hope for the future success of the US are successful terrorist attacks on DC, NYC, and LA."

Tell ya what Plumb -- and I'll put this in language a "keyboard patriot" like yourself will understand -- why don't you man up and actually plan these attacks instead of sitting on your vagina just rooting for them to happen?

That'd show us you're a real American, right pal?

Look idiot, if and when you post back here, please include your real name and address because there are some folks down at the local FBI office who'd like to meet you. Or are you going to hide behind your keyboard again?


IMMIGRANTS
MANY OF WAS TOLD THAT ALL THIS MIGRATION TO THE US WAS OKAY AS THEY WOULD DO THE JOBS WE WOULDN'T. WELL THE ONLY TROUBLE WAS THEY ALL GOT WELFARE AND FREE HEALTH CARE INSTEAD. THE JOBS WE DIDN'T WANT TO TAKE ARE STILL AROUND,AND STILL NO TAKERS.IF YOU ARE WONDERING WHY THERE NO REAL JOBS,YOU CAN BLAME THE ENVIRONMENTAL CROWD WITH ALL THE REGULATIONS.
OUTSOURCED JOBS IS THE FAULT OF REGULATIONS PUT ON BUSINESS SO THERE WAS NO WAY TO MAKE PROFIT OTHER THAN GOING ELSEWHERE THAT ALLOWED SOME AIR POLLUTION AND CONTAMINATION.
MANKIND IS NOT TO BLAME FOR THE HOAX OF GLOBAL WARMING.AL IS.

william, the keyboard patriot
the plumber got it right, keyboard patriot, and your ad hominum attacks change nothing. a person doesnt have to engage in terrorism or even approve of it to be aware that the most traitorous of our citizens live in large coastal cities, which also happen to be where the terrorists have tended to make their attacks. you think maybe they are most comfortable there? irony is irony, and there is nothing illegal about laughing at people who are determined to aid and abet their own extermination. i happen to think that our nation will recover its senses after a couple of nuclear attacks. that doesnt mean i approve of nuclear attacks, or that i would in any way cause them, in fact, i would do everything i can to prevent it, like i did when i voted against obama. you, on the other hand, voted for terrorism, and then attack plumber because he is able to see the likely result of your folly. enjoy the holocaust that you voted for.

The quintesential pathetics...
Plumber prays for death to Americans by terrorist attacks and Curmudgeon swears to it -- all because their boy (and girl) didn't get elected.

Yeah -- typical neo-con nazi nutcases who no doubt will spend tomorrow nailing themselves into their cellars for the next eight years.

I've had reasonable disagreements with many TH community members here over the months, but you two sh-theads are worse scum than Osama Bin Laden -- and I bet most of your fellow THrs would agree.

Have a good eight years in the cellar you cowards. Those nails should go in your coffins.

join the fight to save YOUR America
Presidente Jorge Bush had put out a, "Bienvenido, amigos" sign down on the border, and the Obamessiah cannot wait to make them voters. It is CRITICAL that we force the political will against the powerful Conspiracy Of Evil---> 70%+ of Americans want enforcement and attritive repatriation.

Many pols have been bought and paid for by the miscreant employer/Chamber lobbies who bray the disingenuous drivel about "America must have that cheap labor to do those jobs Americans won't do."

HOGWASH! Americans simply expect a living wage to do those jobs. When the govt. makes token show raids on meat plants, etc., Americans return to reclaim those jobs immediately. ILLEGAL alien employers are NOT saving YOU money-- your hotel room or head of lettuce is NO cheaper to YOU... the lawbreaking employers are simply pocketing more profit at great citizen expense.

The above forces of evil are aided and abetted by the PC multicultural cabal, including the remote "elite" MSM, and the scandal-ridden Catholic Church trying to fill those vacant pews with better paying ILLEGALS.

Keep rattling the cages in Congress so the money flowing from the special interests will seem less "special" to them. It is easy to reach them at numbersUSA.com with prepared, targeted e-mails, OR you can send direct e-mails or call them at their official contact sites and offices just below. BOOKMARK these sites and contact legislators OFTEN and with vigor... tell them you support the SAVE Act:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/content/6/3105
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/congress/phone-numbers-an
d-mailing-addresses-memb.html
http://www.numbers.usa

other solid groups/sources of info:

http://www.teamamericapac.org/
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_aboutm ain
http://www.cis.org/
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm
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