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Saturday, April 05, 2008
Michael Barone :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Democratic Tribes at War
by Michael Barone
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Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


Exit polls have shown that the contest between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama has produced deep divisions among Democratic constituencies. It looks something like tribal warfare. Whites have voted, if you average the results from the states, 53 percent to 39 percent for Clinton; blacks, 80 percent to 17 percent for Obama; Latinos, 58 percent to 39 percent for Clinton; Asians, in California (the one primary state where they're numerous enough to gauge), 71 percent to 25 percent for Clinton.

The differences in voting by the young, overwhelmingly for Obama, and the elderly, overwhelmingly for Clinton, are as large as any I can remember in either a primary or general election. Upscale voters are heavily for Obama; downscale voters are heavily for Clinton.

As the contest has continued, increasing percentages of Clinton and Obama voters say they wouldn't vote for the other candidate against John McCain.

But the exit polls don't show another tribal division, one that emerges when you examine the election returns by county and congressional district. In state after state -- from New Hampshire and Michigan to Texas and Ohio -- Obama runs unusually strongly in counties with large universities. Academics -- and I include here those who choose to live in university towns as well as those actually in or teaching school -- seem to find Obama particularly appealing.

Also, Obama runs unusually well in many state capitals -- Concord, Lansing, Tallahassee, Atlanta, Nashville, Santa Fe, Dover, Jefferson City, Sacramento, Trenton, Madison, Columbus, Austin -- which of course have unusual concentrations of public employees (and in some cases big universities, as well).

Clinton's highest percentages come in counties with large numbers of Latinos and what I call Jacksonians. You can see the latter in counties in what is loosely called Appalachia -- southwest Virginia, southern Ohio, the north end of Georgia, non-metropolitan Tennessee, northern Alabama, northeast Mississippi, all of Arkansas, southern Missouri, eastern Oklahoma, east and central Texas.

These are lands that were settled by the colonial era immigrants from northern England, Scotland and northern Ireland and their descendants, who thronged down the Appalachian chain and then, like their heroes Andrew Jackson and Sam Houston, kept going southwest.

Clinton's strong performance among Jacksonians may reflect her positive appeal (it certainly does in Arkansas), but it also seems to reflect a distaste for Obama. Buchanan County, Va., which borders the yet-to-vote states of West Virginia and Kentucky, voted 90 percent for Clinton and 9 percent for Obama.

What's behind these sharp divisions? You could sum it up by saying that Jacksonians are fighters and academics (and public employees) are not. Jacksonians fought fierce battles against Indians as they moved southwest; they have always made up a disproportionate share of the American military (and were on both sides in the Civil War).

As historian David Hackett Fischer writes in "Albion's Seed," they believe in natural liberty -- I'll leave you alone if you'll leave me alone, but if you attack my family or my country, I'll kill you. Academics are, to say the least, lightly represented in the American military, and in economic terms they tend to compete with the military for public dollars. They seek honor for the work of peace as fiercely as Jacksonians seek honor for the feats of war.

Barack Obama notes again and again on the campaign trail that he spoke out against going to war in 2002 and calls for withdrawal from Iraq, though on terms that he leaves hazy and vague. This suits academics -- and many journalists with similar mindsets -- just fine. It's in line with their portrayal of our soldiers as victims, not heroes, and their portrayal as heroes the academics (Obama used to teach at the University of Chicago Law School) who spoke out against the war.

Hillary Clinton from the beginning of the year has portrayed herself consistently as a fighter, on the campaign trail if not in Iraq, and has done best when she kept fighting while her campaign seemed on the brink of collapse. Her story about being under fire in Bosnia turned out to be untrue, but it is true that we have seen her rebound from adversity multiple times over the last 15 years.

Polling suggests that the Democratic nominee may not be able to count on the losing candidate's tribes in November. Academics and young people and blacks may not turn out in extraordinary numbers for Clinton, as they have for Obama, and the upscale may prefer McCain to a tax increase.

Similarly, Jacksonians, the elderly, the downscale and Latinos may prefer the very Jacksonian McCain to Obama. All of which should worry the super-delegates who must determine who wins the Democrats' tribal war.

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About The Author
Michael Barone is a Fox News Channel contributor and co-author of The Almanac of American Politics. He is Senior Political Analyst for the Washington Examiner and a Resident Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, a Fox News Channel contributor and co-author of The Almanac of American Politics.
 
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What Democratic War?
C'mon Mr. Barone, we'd all like to think the farce for the Democratic nomination is more than just that. Lets face it, seriously the Clintons are calling in favors-there's the Bill residue that Hillary trades off. Her health care system debacle and the fact that she's a jilted wife plays heavily in the latino community. The reason why Hillary has been doing well as of late is because of Ann Coulter.
The minute Ann endorsed her over B. Hussein her numbers spiked.

To Bouette
"Four out of five, 81 percent, say the country is on the wrong track," said Kathleen Frankovic, director of surveys for CBS News. "Just 14 percent say it is headed in the right direction."

But did the poll specify HOW the country was heading on the wrong track?
Certainly there are many conservatives who consider think our nation is headed wrong... and for different (and conflicting) reasons than liberals might.


When I saw that ...
...statistic about polling on Fox news last night,unlike Boutte,the first thing that jumped out at me was "wrong track",just as it did to Tallil2long.These type of push-polls are made for fools like Boutte,who fall for it every time.

Hillary's polls are based on Bill
What does the American people know about Hillary in order to rate her perforance in states other then New York. Hillary was only first lady, she wasn't President. People who rate Hillary perforance are not looking at her, their recalling the memories of Bill Clinton. Why do Americans think from the very beginning Hillary made the decision to play nice. She wanted the memories of Bill Clinton and his charm to remain in the minds of the voters and not the rumors of her. Hillary made the road easy for Obama by constantly reminding the voters Obama had no experience or issues. You shouldn't expect anything from Obama. Hillary put herself out there as a target based on an over active imagination and it came back to bite her. Obama is guilty by association to Reverend Wright. All the rest about Obama was made up as a result of the tapes. Hillary wasn't the only one who used her over active imagination, those who labeled Obama a racist, anti American, Manchurian candidate, and a Marxist, used a heck of a lot of imagination to come up with all of those labels just out of listening to tapes. The emotions are running wild in both camps. Once a candidate is nominated I don't think the party will remain divided.

Musky
This perfume has a French smell, "All for one and one for all." It's all about me.

boutte writes: "A New York Times-CBS

News poll ...."

That is the FIRST CLUE that the poll is skewed and should not be taken the least bit seriously...




(I'm just wondering how many bridges boutte and his ilk have purchased... Bet he's got a back yard full of them..... HA HA HA.)

November will be fascinating.
Does anyone actually believe Ann Coulter's "endorsement" of Hillary created a surge of "support" for the candidate?

Yes, the endorsement is disingenuous, or illogical, or a farce(with Ann, all traits abound); But it has not affected Hillary.

Ann Coulter does not have that kind of clout. Nor does Rush Limbaugh.

Remember, these two blowhards had been ginning up their flock from the get-go to oppose John McCain from winning the GOP nomination.

Guess what? Their efforts failed.

Now, Barone makes some very good points here.

I do believe fundamental differences exist between the major "tribes" within the Democrat party.

Supporters of the party pooh-pooh this divison.

But it is real.

But many who oppose the democrats also make the mistake of dismissing the angst of Americans as illustrated on "wrong track-right track" polling.

There is widespread agreement our nation is on the wrong track.

It is real.

And Republicans will be blamed for that, much more so than Democrats.

November will be fascinating.

Who will win between the party that tears itself apart over which Democrat is to be the nominee, and the party that is saddled with the disastrous legacy of G.W. Bush, the Iraq war, and the all too possible recession?




my 2 cents
Personally I am rather enjoying this democratic foodfight par excellence and IMO it puts anything the republican hate machine and the vast right-wing conspiracy can come up with to shame. No comparison, no competition AT ALL.

So let's enjoy it

If bo wins women will see the dems as having taken the nomination from one of their own - sexism

if hrc wins blacks will see the dems as having taken the nomination rfrom one of their own - racism

Let them tear each other to shreds and then let's hope that eventually the dems will come to their senses and realize that America does indeed need two parties, but only if they are run by GROWN UPS. Is that too difficult to understand?

(btw - does the name Condeleeza Rice ring a bell?)


Boutte
Hmmm... if Anne thinks (and that's a stretch) that the poll is skewed... and Anne is usually wrong in the political arena... therefore the poll must be valid. There's the proof, boutte)

(and I'm wondering how high the pile of conservative BS is in Anne's backyard... bet it's a mile high tee hee)

jerabaub
Good piece

WHOA!!! I must have NAILED wrightsrong

more than a few times.... He is NOT a happy little camper. :-)


Anne, luv,
you just keep carrying on.

Anne
yes you broke my heart, what can I say!

Wrong Track
This poll question always makes me mad because I know both libs and conservatives answer yes but for different reasons. I don't know how a thinking person can't see that!

Well, I'll enjoy the show! It's my fervent hope that the "Demon-crats" pull defeat from the jaws of victory!

Not A Good Punch Line
Barone wrote: "Similarly, Jacksonians, the elderly, the downscale and Latinos may prefer the very Jacksonian McCain to Obama." I disagree. Hillary is liked because she was the selected and anointed one and the first of the two to be against the Repub candidate. She has 10 years or so of getting support from the Demos and a wealth of public exposure. Public exposure will get a candidate elected just about more than anything. She speaks the Demo wad of trash that got most of its socialistic and "free" everything tread starting with FDR, LBJ and Truman. But she is also tops on the list of the most hated woman in the US. Obama has been the best in offering everything "free" which everyone deserves irrespective of whether it was earned. Everyone is entitled to everything. Whoops, who is going to do the work? Obama could lose because he is black. He could lose because of the perception that he is a walking affirmation action figure and one that is clothed in black centrism in sheeps clothing. Barone, exit polls taken before the Reverend Wright blowup might be worthless, as are most political polls. My guess, as with exit polls, is that thousands who voted for Ombama would no longer do so because of Wright. As to McCain, who is a member of the CFR, open borders and "free" trade will sink his boat along with the image of his being a Bush follow-on and a "war" president. If 60%, more or less, Americans are against the Iraq war, trade that opinion for an election vote and see what you get.

Jacksonian fighters?
The Jacksonian fighters who vote for Hillary either have forgotten or never heard what the Clintons did to the military during their squat in the White House. They cut it in half.

redmanrt
First of all the Army was cut from 10 to 8 active
divisions, that's 20% not half!
And what has Bush done to increase the Army's size especially after his war has been going on for 5 years. Irresponsible.

Defense
The peace dividend that led to a reduction of forces was equally supported by both the GOP and the Democrats in both the house and senate, which should also not be forgotten. Furthermore, the end of the USSR changed the nature of America's military commitments and dictated that we evaluate what our future role would be. Bush and Rumsfield, in turn, routinely refused to add forces due in part to Rumsfields vision that the wars of the future would be different from those of the past. Iraq, however, intervened. Both Bush and Rumsfield based the war on their perceptions that it would end quickly, and that the forces required could be met with the forces we had. Ultimately, the deterioration of security led to the surge, and to the fact that Iraq was a traditional war, not a future one. Not until Bush and the GOP lost the house and senate, did Bush re-evaluate his policies for the first six years, and replace Rumsfield with Gates. Not until Gates took over did we see any willingness to add forces. Blaming Clinton is not relevant at this point in time. The military we have is the one that Bush is now largely responsible for.

And, America is still left with the reality that it spends more for defense than the 27 nations of Europe, Russia and China combined. The 27 EU nations with over 500 million people, spend under 5% of their budgets on defense, whereas we spend 20%.

Yet, it is not our defense we are paying for, but other's, and as the costs of entitlements rise, this issue will be increasingly debated. What transpired in the 90's, and what Bush continued to support, is only the opening salvo in the redefinition of American foreign and defense policy.




Redlac
well written!

It Is Not A surprise
that less educated people would be voting for Clinton. Anyone with half a brain would see her congenital lying and disingenuousness and dishonesty as as poor characteristics for a President.

IT IS A BEAUTIFUL THING TO SEE HER DISASSEMBLING AND TRYING EVERY DIRTY TRICK IN NIXON'S BOOK. I THINK SHE IS LOING HER MARBLES.!!!!

JD's whatever.
No the democrats will just go to the polls along with the republicans. And no right wing conservative will be elected president! The American people have already won this election!
Looks like America has rejected your fascist positions JD.

Just when the libs thought
that it was safe for them to come back to TH, Gunny G shows up fresh from leave.

Sucks to be you bums.

Swing by the Anti-Liberal Zone for two BRAND NEW gut punches into the flabby gut of liberalism!

(Click on my handle or better still, BOOKMARK:
http://noliberalspin.blogtownhall.com/ )

We've got libs on the grill and it smells like pork but tastes like CHICKEN! haha

Uncle Max
Agreed. I'm thoroughly enjoying the libs slicing and dicing on one another.

"When your enemy turns on themselves, pull a tab on a cold one and enjoy the show." GunnyG

Buyers remorse
My husband is a democrat precinct captain in Chicago. He has to pull a democrat ballot in the primary. I tried to reason with him to vote for Hillary. Better the devil you know. We know compared to Obama the Clintons are moderate. I told him Obama is hiding his black militant
background. My husband would not listen to me. Our primary was Feb. 5th. Way before the Wright controversy was exposed.
He told me a few days ago he is sorry he didn't listen to me. He's sick and ashamed he voted for Obama. If he were to be polled because of his position he would state he is an Obama supporter. He can not afford to offend the Chicago democrat party.
I stated this before. People are lying to pollsters. They always lie about race. The big democrat unions have millions invested in Obama. Union members can not afford to offend the higher ups. These people are very intimidating. We will know soon enough if I'm right. Pa. will be the answer.

Just a couple thoughts
before I hit the fields. First, I used to be a democrat many moons ago, but not with nearly the ferocity as today's ultra-left morons.

I always respected conservative philosophy and found Bill Buckley to be very prolific, but never to the point where I'd buy it wholesale.

Today, I find myself libertarian and feel that a decent dose of moderate left and right is just exactly what this country needs.

To those whose far left or right notions are so unbendable, I'd like to offer you backhand, forehand upside the head...

...repeat if necessary.

Woody from Iowa

Time to get to work. See ya!

JD
when are you leaving? Need a ride?

BOUTTE

.....Yes America is heading in the wrong direction ...we are heading toward Socialism ...this is a direction that the Democrats will accelerate at warp speed ...the change we need is to reverse this trend and return to the values that made us a World power ...Constitutional Government and Free Market Capitalism .....COLOSSUS

The Democrat war
The Dems have such an incredible ability to fashion murky, mushy rules for their Primaries, they'll be able to weasel around and get their "war" settled before September, more's the pity.

As it is now, one hears lots of their sages saying that the Delegates and Super Delegates need to vote the way the popular vote went in their states.

Maybe I'm misreading results, but aren't Teddy and Kerry Obama supporters? And didn't the majority of Massachusetts Dems vote for Hillary? Now what is a Super Delegate to do?

turn over your check
I see the day when our checks will be directly deposited into government accounts. Your bills will be paid by the government and they will decide you probably don't need that comcast on demand. Your better off listening to NPR or watching public television.
After all it's for the good of the country. And all those citizens with addictions that are unable to work. Perhaps we can go a step further and make those deposits in a world account. Welcome to Obama's world.

the wrong track
I'll cast my conservative vote for America on the "wrong track". In November, we Americans will choose between McCain and Clinton or Obama. Yes, something is very wrong here.

I remember reading Orwell's "1984" when it was futuristic and not an historical date. At the time, I thought it was scary. Today, I read Mark Steyn's "America Alone" and realize that I only thought I knew what scary really was.

BTW, sometimes it requires the courage to fight a war to do the "work of peace". I highly recommend reading military history books to discover this truth. There really is a lot of information concealed in books.

Obama's pretensions
Obama's "Audacity of Hope" proposes a new "post partisan" politic while advocating all of the Democrat's complaints that have stimulated division in the Senate and Congress during the Bush Administration. Imposed on this view is the apparent bias of Black Nationalism -- the Black's complaints that are contradicted by the Black's emerging success, such as in their domination in pro athletics, and exemplified by his own and his wife's success, despite her expression of bitterness.

His "Audacity" presents a confession that appears to be "colored" by a racial and ethnic prejudice married to a Democratic political persuasion that is prominent in the South Chicago area. Proof of this: Obama was an instructor on the Constitution in the school where he taught before entering politics --but there again his analysis on the Constitution is strongly influenced by his political complaint.

If he is elected the Lincoln bedroom will probably be burdened with guests that share his racial views as exemplified by his pastor Wright, and other advocates of Black Theology. It is a follow-on of the heritage from past War II Liberation Theology. It now inspires minorities including homosexuals in their quest for social and civil recognition. Is it any wonder that Obama endorses the homosexual agenda while they endorse his campaign with funding?

Obama is certainly a classic liberal. For his goal for a new politic is nothing more than an apology and confirmation of the old -- with a special Democratic emphasis. The juxtaposition of who and what he is and what he believes contrasted with McCain will be the substance of the political contest this fall if he in fact bests Hillary for the Democrat's nomination. All of this will be very entertaining -- a theater denied in Theocracies.


Anything could happen this fall
But IMHO the Iraq War will trump all in November. Late this summer we face the triangulation of the end of the surge, the official end of the Mahdi Army ceasefire, and the provincial elections.

The situtation is rife for another spike in violence, and even if that hopefully doesn't occur, it is highly unlikely that voters in the south will reinstate the local representatives of the Maliki gov't who even the WH describes as being corrupt and lawless.

If, as appears likely, the 5 year investment in the Iraqi mission results in Sadr gaining control of the oil fields and ports, McCain's central arguments about success in Iraq, and Iraq as the central front for the war on terror will ring hollow with American voters.

With love . . .
Sorry, but the Democratic party will coalesce around it's eventual leader, no matter who that is. I find it interesting that the center most Republican candidate is their presidential choice, and is spending all of his time trying to appease to the boisterous right wing of his party, but there is so much being said about the Democrats being unable to come together.

Republicans will not win the white house in 2008 no matter who the Democratic candidate is. Dennis Kusinich could beat McCain. No amount of drummed up lukewarm enthusiasm from the right will help McCain. The problem is they will not let him move far enough to the center in his rhetoric to appeal, as he must, to independents.

You folks act like you've never seen a family fight before. For those that have, you know better than to stick you noise in.

Oh, and by the way, I love you all. Keep up the alternative perspectives.

Actually JD's son
I fear that the scenario you describe is depressingly prescient.

"Tribes"...
... is precise. No reason, no judgment, no room for truth. It's a power-grab, all about 'race' vs 'gender.' Their clubs are out. Once the blood-letting is over, I don't think for a minute the more-civil citizenry... whether Jacksonian, Jeffersonian or Reagan-Democrat... will let either tribe near the levers of power. Even if they haven't voted in twenty years, they'll come out of closets everywhere to ensure that.








More than tribal warfare....
Some Superdelegates More Super Than Rest
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER

http://www.townhall.com/news/politics-elections/2008/04/05/ some_superdelegates_more_super_than_rest

"Some of those presidential superdelegates Democrats Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton are pursuing are more super than others. One delegate, one vote doesn't apply to them. These prominent Democrats can name additional superdelegates, giving them control over multiple convention votes, and that could be the difference in a race that may not be decided until the August convention."


This whole thing is NOT going to be pretty!







Back from the field
Do any of you people do anything else but sit in front of your monitors and spar about stuff you know you can not REALLY control?

The same folks who were on here when I left this morning are still on. OMG, it's the weekend! Get a life alrerady!

Woody from Iowa

Tribes
I, we, Can only hope that the tribes continue to war and that the bitterness lasts until the November election. I don't like McCain, but as usual I will be trying to vote for the lesser evil.
I know the kind of judges a Democrat will propose. McCain might propose a less bad one.
McCain might veto some Democratic legislation. Neither Democrat would no matter how socialistic it was.
Donald W. Bales

Indeed!
After 9/11 it was clear that the 'world' had changed for me.
I resonate with the Jacksonian thesis Michael offers because prior I was a Reagan Demo. coming from a deep left field adgenda, I am now very much right of Pres. Bush. I see things more as a question of freedom from the 'do-gooders' telling me what and how to live my life since they have not a clue about what freedom truly means. Trust me, I know where you old 'do gooders are coming from' 'cause I've been there and done that' and it end's in tyranny not what you hope for- liberty.

Pro;etariat? Are we in the 19th C. here?
Actually, the divisions among the Dems. are their own chickens coming home to roost.

Dems. have promoted and legislated for every ethnic, cultural, racial, and gender sub-group for decades and are now facing serious tribal divisions of race v gender.

I think the whole dilemma is wonderful and hope whoever refuses to vote for the other takes a long look at John McCain, a person of honor, who doesn't lie about his biography, and is not some coddled newby with no more experience than my left toe.

DAPPERZAPPER

.....I fear that your cognitive reasoning has been zapped ...

.....If the American people have become stupid enough to turn this Country over to either Hillary or Obama ...then we will have committed group suicide and are too stupid to live anyway .....COLOSSUS

JD's Handsome Son
I'll bet your mama didn't read your response to Higene. Just be careful not to get into the business of overthrowing the government. You can underthrow it without committing a crime.

What is all of this stupid political language that every candidate is going to "fight"? I just want them to listen to me and represent me. If need be, I will fight for myself. I surely wouldn't trust anyone as pot-bellied, big butted, thunder thighed and out of shape as Hillary.

As to Hillary backing Obama if he beats her for the nomination, that's rich. That's really rich.

Nice work
Very nice job Mr. Barone.

Your pre-mortum of this election cycle is insightful and nuanced. I'd posit one other level of slicing and dicing for an additional explanation of what we are seeing in the polling.

As you point out there is a distinct age divide among the supporters. An aspect of this is that the more seasoned of us have a certain unease in hiring someone about whom we know so little. Conversely, the younger and less cynical will naturally be drawn to someone without the constraints of having a "history."

I'm afraid when it comes to the fall this age appropriate analysis will be the strongest determinate even more than race, education or economic interests.

I do believe that the message of change is a siren call to younger voters just as being comfortable with experience motivates those of us who have worn a path going around the block. The beauty is that no matter what the motivator, each has only one vote.



Dialogue on hollowed ground

I posted yesterday the next million man march should be at Gettysburg.
John Kass of the Chgo Trib. had a similar article today.
At Gettysburg most folks don't talk much. They're quiet. They listen. It is the site of the famous Civil war. It began July 1,1863,and lasted 3 days. When it was done some 23,000 Union troops died in trying to break the south. Even more Confederates died.
So the next group of politicians demanding a sacred dialogue on race should just drive to Gettysburg. They can think of all those souls, fighting to hold the Union and stop slavery, and all those who died defending the South and its slaveholding ways.
It didn't end there. The hatefulness continued for years, and still does, and shamefully.
But at least you can have a dialogue, a quiet one, a sacred one, alone, a dialogue with yourself, without politics, looking out where thousands upon thousands of Americans died, bringing freedom to others.

Hilarious, but a real shame
The logic of the Democrats' divide-&-conquer group identity/grievance politics perhaps made it inevitable that we'd eventually have a most amusing ovaries v. melanin nomination contest, after yrs & yrs of white anglo male Demmie candidates yapping about 'diversity.'

I agree, though, that the party machinery & apparachiks & heavyweights like Chappaquiddik Ted will decide. That's what "superdelegates" are all about; can't risk the loons & parasites nominating one of their own.

The tragedy of course is that there isn't a conservative running as the GOP candidate who would take on the basic policy premises of the eventual Dem nominee. At this hour, we need someone to stand up & champion conservatism & say "You're wrong on this, it's not the place of government to do that," instead of "Me, too! Just a little less of it! And, uh, we'll stay in Iraq & Afghanistan 100 years if we have to."

Thank you Michael Barone.
Great column, as always.

An election - not a popularity contest
The swoon over Obama, a very junior Senator privileged to have no political track record, is amazing. On the other hand, Hillary, with tons of baggage and little record to run on is lagging behind in Dem polls. Neither should garner even honorable mention as serious candidates.
The Bush administration, for some appropriate reasons and many not, is so unpopular it allows folks like Hill and Barack the audacity of even stepping on the stage.
Perhaps now that Hill has been outed as a grand embellisher of her record and Obama is proving to be veiled divisionist folks will either get serious about the presidency or become so disenchanted they simply stay home.
Can anyone even imagine a successful outcome were Hill or Barack to debate Putin, Chavez or Kim Jung Il?

Clinton campaigning for Barack?
Poor Higiene -
So heavily ingrained with the image of the near God quality of the Clintons. Has he/she forgotten the White House Furniture, Travel-gate, Monica (and a host of others) or the Price pardons? Look at all the support Gore and Kerry got from the Clintons and none of them called Bill/Hill liars like Barack has.
The Clintons are the most audacious spectacle to every arrive on the American political scene. Do you really think they see value in the Dem party if they are to lose a nomination or election (coronation)? They would rather it splinter into millions of bits if they are not the head of it.
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