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Saturday, February 02, 2008
Michael Barone :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Parties Change Places
by Michael Barone
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Just shy of a month ago, after the first votes were cast in Iowa and New Hampshire, it seemed that the Republican Party faced a fluid and fractious nomination contest, while the Democrats faced a clear-cut choice between two not particularly adversarial candidates. What a difference a few weeks can make.

Now it appears that John McCain is on an unobstructed flight path to the nomination, facing a few crosswinds but no serious navigation hazards, while the two leading Democrats, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, are on the collision course, with the winner taking on serious and possibly disabling damage. And this in a year when the standard metrics -- the job performance rating of the president, judgments about the trajectory of the economy, trends in party identification -- have seemed overwhelmingly favorable to the Democrats.

How did this happen? Some will give credit to providence, which saw to it that McCain -- whose candidacy seemed terminal last July 1 -- was able to duplicate, with lesser percentages, his 2000 victory in New Hampshire, then survive a defeat in his best 2000 state, Michigan, then squeeze out a 33 percent to 30 percent victory over Mike Huckabee in South Carolina and a 36 percent to 31 percent victory over Mitt Romney in Florida.

None of which would have been possible without a collapse in Rudy Giuliani's support, which was as widely unpredicted as his earlier rise to the top of the polls. Or without the collapse of the candidacy of 2000 McCain supporter Fred Thompson, who led in polls as a noncandidate but lost the lead before he officially declared.

Even so, McCain now seems a prohibitive favorite for the Republican nomination. He leads in just about all the polls in the big states that vote on Super Tuesday, Feb. 5. Giuliani has bowed out, and Huckabee's election night speech reiterated his respect for McCain. Romney alone has the potential to buy enough ads and possibly derail McCain this week. But big-time buys did not win for him in Iowa, New Hampshire or Florida.

In his victory speech, McCain was at pains to pay respect not only to his rivals, but to the concerns of his critics in conservative journals and talk radio. To his undisputed asset as the longtime and persistent advocate of the surge, which has produced such success in Iraq, he added a stern but seldom-before-voiced resolve to appoint judges who would interpret rather than make law. He was paying -- for once, and for the time being anyway -- heed to his critics at National Review and his boosters at The Weekly Standard. Memo to Rush Limbaugh: You have been heard.

And what were the Democrats up to when the Republicans were receiving the coordinates of a clear flight path? Heading straight toward each other. The Clinton campaign, defeated in Iowa and nearly in New Hampshire, scraping by in Nevada and expecting a clobbering in South Carolina, faced a choice between losing clean and winning ugly. What is amusing is that so many liberal commentators were surprised when the Clinton apparat, with the unhesitation of a shark, chose the latter option.

Bill Clinton and other Hillary Clinton surrogates got busy playing the race card against Barack Obama. They belittled his victory in South Carolina and profited from her victory in Florida -- Democratic Party rules forbade candidates to compete -- where elderly women, Latinos and Jews, all heavily pro-Clinton (or anti-Obama) constituencies, are heavily represented.

As they will be, to varying extents, in the Super Tuesday states, especially California. Extrapolating from all but one of the Florida results, Clinton will be the big winner there. The exception: Floridians making up their minds at the last minute were evenly split between Obama and Clinton.

Disgust over the Clintons' tactics has been a staple of liberal magazines and blogs and evidently inspired Edward Kennedy's endorsement of Obama. Political history mavens will recall that Kennedy, well after he had lost the 1980 nomination to Jimmy Carter, continued his campaign and bitter denunciations all the way to the national convention.

Will he urge such a course on Obama? Hillary Clinton may be content to win ugly. But she may find, as Carter did, that a crash on the runway is not an appealing spectacle.

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About The Author
Michael Barone is a Fox News Channel contributor and co-author of The Almanac of American Politics. He is Senior Political Analyst for the Washington Examiner and a Resident Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, a Fox News Channel contributor and co-author of The Almanac of American Politics.
 
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Great Photo! Arnold
looks like the guilty little girly man that he has become. . . I bet he couldn't look Romney in the eye because Arnold has gotten so small. He looked just as rediculous in that solar factory talking about global warming.

Arnold is too old to do another movie, how will he ever salvage his image after this? From Terminotor to Worminator. As a life long body builder, you have no idea how sad this makes me.

How Did This Happen?
How did this happen? I expect it's just time for the pendulum to swing. After years of the New Deal, union dominance, and Civil Rights laws, which Republicans despised, the pendulum swung in the opposite direction and brought us Reagan, Gingrich, and the Bushes. It's now 27 years since Reagan was inaugurated and the climate in this country has become overwhelmingly Republican-oriented. Many people are tired of this (consider how "conservative" has become a compliment and "liberal" an insult and you will begin to understand my meaning). But the swinging pendulum, over time, creates balance. Rove's dream of a permanent Republican majority would have made us a one-party state, antithetical to democracy. It's time now for a change. Turn about is fair play.

When all else Fails.... VOTE FOR FRED
These are the Republican choices. A write-in would allow you to continue to vote your principles.

Republican Party Candidates for President in California

Candidate Name Party
Mike Huckabee Republican
Duncan Hunter Republican
Fred Thompson Republican
Tom Tancredo Republican
Rudy Giuliani Republican
John H. Cox Republican
Sam Brownback Republican - No Candidate Statement Submitted
Ron Paul Republican
John McCain Republican
Mitt Romney Republican
Alan Keyes Republican

Vote your principles, GIVE FRED DELAGATES IN THE CONVENTION, no need to waste the signs, keep them up as a symbol of principal. We now have a responsibility to choose again, as for me, I’m going to vote for Fred if his name is on the ballot.

The right to choose cost some of our fellow citizens, countrymen and family the ultimate price. Our price for our right to choose based on our principles is one vote.

VOTE FOR FRED…

Dennis McIntire, “The Constituent”
http://www.dennisforlife.com

Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.
John Quincy Adams

Mitt & Huck:endure together/perish alone
The bitter backlash against McCain from the base has got to have Huckabee rethinking his current course of angling for VP from McCain. They do bring in the same votes to each other. Romney and Huckabee don't--they draw in a larger coalition of voters--and Huckabee has to realize that now more fully than ever.

If Romney and Huckabee stay in through the whole race Huckabee will be crown McCain at convention. Alternatively, Huckabee and Romney can wrest the nomination together from McCain by combining their delegates.

But if Romney pulls out right after supertuesday McCain will not need Huckabee to be crowned at the convention. McCain will go ahead and get his 1119 delegates without Huckabee and put Crist or Guiliani or Arnold on as VP. (McCain doesn't believe he needs the hardcore evangelical vote and economic conservatives to win the vote.) The point is that Huckabee only stays relevant to McCain come convention as long as Romney stays in.

Huckabee has to wonder if he has been betting on the wrong horse given the conservative angst McCain is drawing. Huckabee won't pull the base out for McCain and that means certain defeat in the general--especially against Obama--McCain won't win with moderates in that contest. It is really Romney and Huckabee in a game of chicken after Super Tuesday. Does Huckabee give support to Romney which is more likely to win or to McCain like he has been? If Obama is nominated McCain will look ready for burial not election. Huckabee has to be concerned about his chances with McCain now.

Huckabee requres Romney and Romney requires Huckabee. Romney and Huckabee endure together or perish alone.

I agree BL
You are right, Huck's supporters will break more for McCain then Mitt. But this doesn't improve McCain's chances in November. I am echoing your sentiments whereever I post. Too many useful idiots are looking at RealClearPolitics ahead to November, thinking they've got the whole calculus of this election sewed up. What's in it for Moderates when it's McCain vs. Obama? He might have a slight chance against Hillary simply because he benefits from the "Anything but Hillary" vote. But I firmly believe that the cynical belief that all the outraged conservative base will come in line with him is misplaced. There's enough ill will with McCain, plus being sick and tired of being the maligned part of the Reagan coalition, to endure that. McCain knows, he was quoted recently saying he wanted to sew the nomination up in MA so he could "Get to bringing the party together". It won't happen - he will lose in November.

The sad thing is BL, if the comments on here project the larger sentiment, Huck and Mitt supporters will not join forces.

How did it happen Barone asks
Well Barone; it hasn't happended yet; no thanks to you and those like you.

McLame got where he is at now because the Party bosses wanted him there and the "fix" was in.

If he gets what you predict then I predict oblivion for the Neocon party.


JlSchlesinger
Interesting posts by you and Dlounsbury (sp). Your thoughts follow quite a logical extension of what's happened so far. The rub is that very little that's happened so far has followed logically from previous events. I do agree that BHO would cream McCain, as i believe he would have great appeal to the "feel-good" middle. Its painfully obvious that an incredible percentage of American voters still actually are swayed by pie in the sky platitudes. Huck and BHO prove it. Neither one has come up with any meaningful platform or solid solution, or even defined a problem. They talk about visions of the future and uniting the country and good govt for all and such meaningless BS. And they are viable candidates for POTUS. Go figure. McCain might pick up these folks against Hillary, but so would Romney. Romney would keep more of the peeoed conservative vote, but would likely lose some of the religious right, unless of course, Huck would endorse him.

Backlash from the base?
I think the base of the Republican party is no longer the far right conservatives. The base seems to be moderate now. Otherwise Thompson, Hunter or Tancredo would be in the lead. You're assuming you are still the base. I think it has shifted to the center.

wrightsrong52
I have been hearing this term "far right" from the Lamocrats and leftists for a long time.

For my edification, just what attributes would you assign to someone to make them a member of this nefarious class as opposed to normal conservatives or "center right".

LibertyJaw
Ahhhhh, Arnuld can't help it. He married a lib-wench and she "eunuched" him as per the DNC SOP.

4 more years
Yesterday Huckabee attacked Romney, and also said he's not getting out of the race. This seems to put to bed the idea that Huckabee will reconsider his strategy. And this will make it easier for McCain. On the democratic side, it's going to be a race for awhile, as all delegates are awarded proportionately, and Obama appears likely to win Alabama, Georgia, Connecticutt, Illinois and Colorado, while finishing close in states like California and even New Jersey as the polls seem to show the race tightening. Clinton leads, but Obama's fundraising, which was $32 million in January alone, guarantees that he can run hard. At the same time, the race card seems to be overplayed by the media right now. The last debate showed an entirely different face, and the party bosses may have already put the word out to the Clintons to drop the entire issue if they expect to win their support and then go on to the general.

At this point, it looks like McCain, and that will mean that the GOP is going to run a 71 year old who, like Bush, is a former flyboy who is impulsive, spent the first part of his life achieving due to the silver spoon his father handed to him, did poorly in the academy, and marched arm and arm with Bush on amnesty. You have to wonder if the country want's a Bush retread or not.

We should be able to do better - but the primary system the GOP has with its mix of winner take all and proportional states seems to favor McCain. So, here we are. 1/3 of the voters in three states, most of whom were moderates, liberals or independents, have made the decision the rest have to live with. And the irony is, it increasingly appears that about 1/2 the GOP is made up of voters who aren't particularly conservative, and who are perfectly willing to have a moderate candidate - if that's what you can call McCain.

So, if McCain wins, we'll get 4 more years. So much for the Reagan coalition.


Third choice
Well, Rudy was my man, and he bowed out with grace. Thompson was my second choice, and he was a blip on the screen, fading fast like a plane shot down in World War II. so my fallback is John McCain, too liberal on a number of issues. But guess what, at least we have a shot at the Presidency. Mitt would lose by 10-14%. If John wins, hopefully it's only four years, then we can find someone else. His VP choice should not be Romney or Huckabee, two men I despise.

I believe it is more
than a possibility that the next prez, whoever it may be, will be a one-termer. Even so, while I'm not particularly religious, and not given to praying, I get down on my knees, clasp my hands together, gaze heavenwards and plead, "Please, if you're up there, don't let this country honor HRC as the first female president of the United States." The mere thought of this person occupying that historical position makes me ill.

By the way, since the print/electronic media are the determiners of the upcoming election (don't believe me? Look who the frontrunners are.) the next prez will be: McCain v. Obama = Obama
McCain v. Clinton = McCain
but don't take the second one to the bank. Mac has a habit of ticking folks off, even the media.

If McCain is Elected
Yes, as redlac said, it would be 4 more years of the same cr*p as from the Bushes. Did I mention yet that McCain is a member of the CFR? Father Bush is a member of the CFR. Jorge not on the list yet? And more disclosure -- Barone is a member of the CFR and think he attended the 2008 Davos meeting. That's where he got to rub shoulders a couple greats - Henry Kissinger and Owlgore. They discuss our future and you hear almost nothing from the media about such meetings. They are afraid?

Chopper John
A misogynist taking the long view would certainly vote and pray to get Hillary in the WH. There wouldn't be another female president for 100 years. :-D

Hoist by Media's own Petards
How did this happen?
Rush and the rest of the media, the Republican Monarchy, Wall Street and K Street backed Romney from the beginning.

Remember how they all supported Romney's distortions of Huckabee's positions in Iowa? Remember how the debates and Fox's focus groups were manipulated to give Huckabee only a limited amount of air time? Remember the "scholarships for illegal aliens" lie that every commentator and columnist repeated? Remember the "floating cross" insanity at Christmas?

Remember the biased ads against Huckabee from the "Club for Growth"? Everyone. I mean everyone in the Grand OLD Party wants Romney and have done everything they can for him from the beginning.

But, guess what guys! The people don't want Romney. He represents the problem in the Republican party. You don't get it yet?

Romney is not an outsider as he claims. He's the poster boy for the failing form of Capitalism all these Republican media elites are trying to preserve.

But we regular people want to participate in the capitalist system too. We reject your system that is designed to simply protect the wealth of the already wealthy. We are demanding the same kind of opportunities you guys have. We both believe in the capitalist system. But, we just don't have the seed money to take advantage of our creativity. We want that system changed.

Romney repesents the old system. We know he has no ideas about how to raise the opportunities for us regular people. He doesn't even seem to care. He only sees us as employees, not as creative beings and a new source of wealth for America.

So, you guys beat back the Huckabee challenge. You did it through dishonesty and distortions. You never understood the problem. We want something new, not Romney. Will you ever get the message?

You got Hoist by your own Petards! You got McCain!



Vic
Why call the far right " this nefarious class "?
I didn't mean far right as a negative, just a direction. But I would consider Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Sean Hannity etc as representing the far right. I consider Fred Thompson, Tom Tancredo or Duncan Hunter normal conservatives. Rudy Guiliani, John McCain and Mitt Romney are center right. And who is left for the Republicans to pick from?
The Republican voters are deciding who will be their nominee, against the desires of those on the far right.

Savage99,
OK, you. Back to the corner you go:)

A pragmatic view
suggests that a coalition of the surviving be formed to unseat the McCain coronation. Depending on which blogs and articles one reads and the comments given to them as we role along could indicate that if we act as grown ups here, we still could win.

Consensus number one. No HRC. Consensus number two. McCain gets it if nothing is done. Lets make consensus number three. Remember I said pragmatic view. A Romney/Huckabee ticket can pull this thing out even at this late date given two things. Huck realizes what his true chances are and Romney can use his considerable skills at management to solidify this marriage.

Place Rudy and Paul in the cabinet and let that be known. All of these constituencies can pull this thing off, but you have to be pragmatic about it.

wrightsrong52
Well that is the who, I wanted to know the what.

What charectoristics make someone a member of the "far right"?

RJBJr
If you think the ability to succeed comes from the government you will never amount to a hill of beans.

PalDusty
Huckabee, attack dog for McVain, is not going to join any anti-McVain coalition, period; the guy sold his soul to McVain shortly after Iowa (if not before).
Check the dynamics of the So Carolina primary.
McVain comes off of an "independent" driven plurality "win" in NH (receiving fewer votes than his 2000 run there) entering a southern state which has long been thought to be Huckabee's or Thompson's by pundits. Who does Huckabee play nice with? McVain. Who does Huckabee attack? Romney, who isn't even contesting So Carolina to any great degree (he's moved on to more fertile ground for him, Nevada, which he won). Who does Thompson attack? Huckabee (suppose to be his greater challenger). McVain is his "bud", he doesn't touch him. Guiliani is in Florida sunning on Miami beaches. McVain isn't touched by anyone, and manages AGAIN to eck out a plurality of a "win".
On to Fl. Huckabee decides not to contest, but attacks Romney anyway, eventhough now McVain with his "wins" in NH and SC is being called "front runner" by MSM and other punditry venues. Not only that, but it has become clear that should McVain manage another plurality of a "win" in Fl, he will be very hard to beat, but Huckabee doesn't touch him; he concentrates on souring as much of the social conservatives on Romney as he can. Now Huckabee is either one terrible campaign strategist (because giving over his crowd to Romney was the right Fl move for him), throwing any chance of carrying on in the future by hurting Romney to propell McVain (who is now leading Huckabee in all of his Southern states of remaining hope) forward, or the guy is already on someone's "payroll", and has been for some time.

Vic / examples
Far Right = all illegals sent back now (somehow)!
We'll check their ID's when they fill up their lawnmowers at the gas station.
Normal Conservative = those illegals should have filed the proper paperwork, we can't let them do thst.
Center Right = oh well they're already here, we better sign them up.

Far Right = somebody else might have a weapon that could conceivably reach the US. Let's go get 'em.
Normal Conservative = What are they doing with that yellow stuff? Maybe we better check into this.
Center Right = How much can we make if they buy it from us?

wrightsrong52
if there was a "far right" conservative in this race it was Thompson and/or Tancredo.
Hunter, being the center/right conservative.
Romney, being the center conservaative.
Guiliani and McVain being center/left conservatives (if there is such an animal) based upon their recent records.
Ron Paul has always been a Libertarian; he only ever put on the mantle of Republican to gain office (he had already run and been defeated as a Libertarian more than once), and I don't know where to put a Libertarian on the "conservative scale.

Since you asked
>For my edification, just what attributes would you assign to someone to make them a member of this nefarious class as opposed to normal conservatives or "center right". <

In your case, the answer lies in your previous sentence with the made-up immature term "Lameocrat." Of course, many of your buddies use "libsquirt," "Dumbocrat" and other equally banal terms.

Much as you'd like to think that these politically insulting terms are some sort of conservative base, all it really shows is a fringe mentality and an inability to discuss politics like adults.

McCain is a conservative hero
I am glad Michael Barone sees a clear flight path to the nomination for John McCain and it is time for the GOP to gather around and support him as our canidate.

A Small Voice From Across the Room
In case anybody's interested, here's a Democratic perspective on Republican voting: if you-all would stick to the fiscal stuff and then DO IT, as GWB did not, some of us Democrats would probably vote Republican. Unlike the picture painted in a lot of townhall posts, all Democrats are not without means. Some of us actually do care about our worldly goods and, IF you had leadership that was a decent steward of this (excuse me for a minute while I think of our present administration and get sick) we might very well be with you. It is your social issues that turn us off.

You have sought to dissolve much of our government and to mandate private behavior according to standards imposed by an extremist religious fringe. Your aim has been to pull the world of science and medicine backwards in time. You scorn education, from describing public kindergarten as "socialist indoctrination" all the way through graduate school---to you, academics are elitists who should be silenced and controlled by business interests. You resent all authority as much as any 15 year-old boy.

Stick to being bankers and brokers. We might even vote for you to be the bankers and brokers. Leave the people stuff to us: we're better at it.

RJBJr
Rush and most other "conservative" talk radio gurus were laughing and mocking the MSM for their insanity over the "cross" in the Huckabee Christmas adv.; please, be fair to talk radio. "Conservative" talk radio lead the fight against the McVain-Kennedy scamnesty and have remained on guard againest every post scamnesty sneak attack to pass a portion of it "stand alone" or as an attachment to a good bill ever since. So, yes, they did question Huckabee's credentials on these issues, as they did everyone elses (I even remember Rush giving kudos to Ron Paul's positions on DEFENDING our borders and enforcing our laws). Many on the right have not been "cheerleaders" for the Huck for a variety of reasons (other than social values) and because they have felt the GOP could do better; of course, now our party offerring appears to be MR AMNESTY himself, McVain, and like so many stalwarts in the GOP, they are outraged! especially considering how the guy is "winning"...with "independents" and cross-over Dems.

Charlie
I'm not sure if a Libertarian could be considered a conservative. I'm thinking a Libertarian is almost a radical in this day and age. Ron Paul's position on military bases overseas is absolutely correct. But no Dem or Repub would ever go there.

Charlie
Got ya. OK, then another one with Romney as Prez. I just don't want McCain at all and HRC would be worse. Speaking of worse. We can sit back and gather "Strength" for the 4 - 8 years, but that will only serve to make the conservatives seem more desperate. A third party? Perhaps, but that needs to be seeded WAY in advance. All I am saying is that from reading all of the info in the last 2 - 3 weeks it just seems to me that there could be a breakthrough with a coalition and as I said if we act as adults. And if we don't then we get what we deserve. McCain or the Hilderbeast/Obama and zero results in Washington. The only hope at that point is that a budget fight causes government shutdown for 8 years!

Charlie
You post interesting speculations. Thank you. I scan these threads hoping for some ideas not my own, and you have been helpful.

JOHN MCCAIN

JUAN HERNANDEZ TELLS US YOUR HEARING IS BAD.



NO NEW PATH.

Joe
McCain is certainly welcome to all the Republicans he can win over. I am a conservative and he has lost me. As others have noted, 06 was a red warning light. Looks like 08 will take out a few more Republicans who think they can win more votes from their perceived middle than they lose on the right.

Lillie
We are supposed to become "Democrat Lite" just so you all will deem us to be OK. It is our social and financial positions that make us who we are and by the way, we like who we are and don't feel guilty because of them. We don't want the government to have the upper hand on "We the People". We want to retain a social conscience and realize that there really is good and bad and are not afraid to say so. Forget it. If we do change are views on anything it wont be because you Democrats want us to to "Can't we all just get along". Try getting along with us. And also, no bumper sticker comebacks please. Try original thought...

gay conservative
People say they want "change", and the GOP appears headed to run for President a 72 year old, 26 years and running "Washington insider"; do you think he can defeat either Obama (regardless of how many lies he tells about him) or the Clinton machine? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, NOT!
He wouldn't even stand a chance should he get a united GOP behind him, and that ain't gonna happen.
You say Romney can't win because the pollsters are telling you this, but what they are not telling you is that a "change agent" can not be a veteran national politician and must therefore "emerge" in the General election as more and more people are exposed to him nationally (one reason Americans have traditionally turned to Governors as national "change agents"). The general public knows McVain, so of course he polls well now, but see how far he drops once the contest is set, especially if the neophite, Obama, is heading up the Dem ticket, and Obama, being in the US Senate and a young successful Black, even has higher name recognition just now than a former Gov like Romney.

lilly
if you would like to turn your attention back to your "good old days" of Democrat dominance, back to when Democrats had a "party tent" whose members ran the spectrum of ultra-liberal (socialist/anarchist) to "dixiecrat conservative" and "defense hawks", you will find that "liberal" was a dirty word even then and within the Dem Party; in fact, if you return to the 1960s, you might discover than the "liberal" Republicans were better accepted by their fellow party.
When I "came of political age" here in Texas, there was only the Democratic Party, and the infighting was always between the "liberal" and "conservative" wings of that party! We had one GOP US Senator (who had just been elected as the first since Reconstruction), and there were no more than 4 GOP US House members (and that was because it was simply too dificult for the Democrat domninated state legislature to figure how to draw the district lines to eleminate them and make existing Dem US House members happy in the process).

Michael Barone filled with usless
comments as usual. Realize one thing Michael, you and your elitest friends can make all the comments you desire, but this is not going to make a difference on how I or millions like me are going to vote. Conservatives know McCain for who he is, a liberal traitor to the party. There will always be the Joe's who desire a liberal movement to destroy the Republican Party, but that will not deter real Republicans that keep the party alive. I am glad that Arnold and the rest of the liberals are behind McCain because it draws a clear distinction of who the real conservatives are in the race. The endorsement of Tom Tancredo the man with the most conservative record in the race went to Romney for a reason. The biggest lie in this race is that John McCain is a Military conservative. He is not good on the war. How can a man who is for amnesty and opposed to true border security be good on defense? Just because he like a broken clock is right once or twice a day does not make him a working clock. He is no conservative and anyone with half a brain can see that. That is why he will not win on Tuesday or afterwards. Texas will go to Romney, California will end up giving many of its delegates to Romney. He obviously will win Utah, Idaho, Colorado, and Montana. Every strong conservative except my former representative has endorsed him. Duncan Hunter is dead to me!

There's
one aspect that none of you have noticed about
Huckabee's voters. This is difficult for me to say but many of my fellow evangelicals believe
Huckabee is God's choice for President and look
on Romeny as the devil personified. It's legalism run amok. You aren't going ever convince those sheep to vote for anyone Huck doesn't approve of. The American church has for the most part turned away from it's primary focus, the Cross and the atonement, replacing it in some with legalism (I mean a woman coming to church in slack..tsk tsk type of judgement.) Or
its name it claim it, twisting of scripture. Very few realizing its not our job to do God's, we are expected to pray and to love but not condone anothers sin which my former church has
been doing..bishop vicki for example. So you
can quit dreaming there are just some Huck followers that won't vote for Romney ever. Huck
is like many televangelist..a hustling Hucketer and people will follow him because they believe
he will do something only God can do..return
our culture, society back to morality and decency.

Memo to Michael
Michael:

Carter won !!!

wrightsrong52
Thanks for that response, as you can see, that terms seems to mean different things to different folks. To today’s Democrats anyone who doesn’t spout the Stalinist view of communism is far right. Since you were so kind as to respond I’ll give my interpretation of what I think it should mean.

The term originates from the French revolution in which the supporters of the old style monarchy sat on the right side of the aisle in the assembly while the supporters of the new “liberal” revolutionaries sat on the left. Under the more modern definition the leftists have been associated with the communist/socialist policies of the Middle and Eastern European countries and the right wing people have been associated with the English and American version of the more capitalist countries.

cont....

pt 2

This has become much more mixed up with the addition of other political positions on crime, immigration, national defense, and other non economic topics. But since the term was originally meant to encompass the economic areas I will stick to that and for the U.S. only.

I would define the center as what is written in the Constitution and what we had in most States in the beginning. I define that as the center because that was actually before the French revolution, before the invention of “Communism”, and before Adam Smith wrote his material on economics. It was however a direct product of the age of reason which used capitalism as a spring board for freedom and liberty. In the beginning the Federal government was very limited in what it could do economically. The Supremes did rule that it could establish a central bank and specifically it could levy taxes proportionally and against items. The States could do a lot more things in the area of socialist items and some did. Most States had houses for the poor and destitute, orphanages, and charity wards.

Anything that increases social activities above that listed above moves on to the left of center. Anything that reduces social activities below that listed above moves one to the right of center.

From that I would say that the entire U.S. today rests squarely to the left and in most cases, far to the left. Even most people referred to as staunch conservatives really reside to the left of what the founders originally intended.

For me, in order for someone to be considered a “far right” individual they would have to advocate complete “laissez-faire capitalism”, as well as the complete abolishment of ALL forms of Federal and State government social services. I met very few people who fit that category and NO politicians.

Got to go into
town. Back later.

Mc Cain not!
I am a staunch republican, but if McCain is the nominee, the democrats will win. I WILL NOT vote for McCain under ANY circumstance.

I held my nose and voted for Bush twice, but I am NOT going to vote for any more watered down conservatives. I am tired of friends and relatives telling me that conservatives don't govern well. How would we know? We haven't had one since Reagan.

The nation will go to hell in a hand basket if either McCain or the democrats win, but at least if the democrats are in office, THEY will get the blame instead of the republicans. MAYBE that will give us a chance in 2012.

The republicans CAN NOT WIN a national election without the support of conservatives. The McCain camp is saying that between McCain and the democrats, where are the conservatives going to go? They think we conservatives have no choice. They have short memories.

After Bush 41 raised taxes despite his pledge no to and canceled his NRA membership, he also asked where are the conservatives were going to go. He knows the answer now and it is the same answer for the McCain camp. I'll see a liberal democrat in office before I'll see McCain elected. There will be no difference between the way they will govern anyway, but at least the people will see that it is the democrats screwing things up this time.

mccain - less than he thinks he is
mccain got about 1/3 of the republican votes. 2/3s went somewhere else.

i am part of the ones going elsewhere. if the republicans are just going to be democrats anyway, let's get the real thing!

the republicans are determined to lose every election and their funding base of they continue down this path. remember 2006. the base stayed home. we will have a repeat in 2008.

if it is mccain, be a maverick - VOTE OBAMA!!

Vic
All I can say is thanks. And I guess Ron Paul is far right? Laissez-faire capitalism sounds Libertarian.

REPUBLICAN STRATEGY FOR 2012

.....Let McCain be the sacrificial lamb in 2008 ...

.....If, as all the experts predict, 2008 is the year of the Democrat ...because of Bush fatigue, the anti-war vote and a sour economy ...then why waste a good candidate in a losing cause ...sacrifice McCain the way Goldwater was sacrificed against LBJ ...

.....What better way for Conservative Republicans to get rid of McCain than to see him get steamrolled by Hillary or Obama? ...

.....This will finish McCain as a political force and open the door for Romney to lead Conservative Republicans out of the wilderness in 2012 ...

.....Romney has made a down payment on 2012 by gaining National name recognition and will have four more years to establish his Conservative creds ...if the Democrats bomb in the White House ala Jimmy Carter ...then Romney could emerge as the new Reagan .....COLOSSUS

cincinnati kid - mccain is no conservati
mccain is no conservative. he is not even close. any of the other candidates that are vying for the republican nomination are better and it is not even close.

the best candidates have left the race. of the ones left including democrats, the best in order are romney, huckabee, paul, obama, clinton, mccain.

mccain is dishonest ala clinton.

his misses on all cyllinders.

if it's mccain - GO OBAMA!

Super Tuesday is this week
Let's not make any judgments until that OCCURS! It's just like the last few Presidential finals when the wrong person was announced the winner by the liberal media, the conservatives have tucked tail in the media and ran too! Either be a coward and vote for McShame on Tuesday or stand up for what's right, vote for PRINCIPLES & MORALS!

TWO THINGS McCain doesn't have! Juan can translate for him it is "principios y moralejas."

Kid
I imagine the question is, is McCain conservative at all, or is he just - well - McCain. You must admit that's a tough one to sort out. He has a temper - we know that. He's been popping off for years. He angered his superiors in the academy, the social conservatives with his comments in 2000, those who want to enforce immigration laws, those who didn't want so-called campaign finance reform etc., just to name some on a very long list. Then, he's never worn his anti-abortion on his sleeve, he seems to have some pretty off the wall social views, and so forth. The Wall Steet Journal says we'll know what we're getting with McCain - but I wonder. In fact, I doubt it. He certainly has a lot of friends on the Democratic side of the aisle, and he often shares their viewpoints - as he's proven. Would someone who is a sympathetic to the illegals be much different on social programs for everyone else? Will he reach across the aisle to nominate justices who keep the Democrats happy? Probably. After all, he's voted for not just the one's Bush nominated, but those of Clinton and Reagan as well. Seems he's comfortable with most of them. One thing you should keep in mind - and that is that he's been a maverick his entire life.

So, you want to nominate a maverick. Well, good luck. But that's not a conservative - that's a maverick - keep it in mind. But if you do nominate him, and if he should get elected, the entire GOP will be tagged with his maverick ideas and his temper. Keep it in mind.

VIC

.....FIVE STARS ***** FOR YOUR 11:32 - 33 POSTS .....COLOSSUS

The Cinncinnati Kid
I'm not just not voting for McVain; should he be the eventual nominee of the GOP, I'm working and voting for the Democrat's candidate.
I don't desire that the Republican Party be blamed for what McVain would do as President, coupled with a liberal Congress!
I'll be voting for my GOP US Senator (who helped defeat the McVain-Kennedy SCAMNESTY) and voting for the GOP candidate in my US House district in an attempt to return it to a "Strong border DEFENSE/NO AMNESTY" conservative from the Democrat who won the US House seat in 2006, and I recommend that all true conservatives, and otherwise opponents of "open borders" and "scamnesty" do the same!

McVain
McVain claims he doesn't know much about economics and tries to offset his weakness by constantly bringing up his service in the 1960s - 1970s as a "leader" of a naval flight squadron; I've only found naval squadron's of 240 members, and 202 of those are not under the direct command of the squadron leader; they are attached support personnel! So McVain has the management accumen of a high school teacher and about as much economics understanding (unless the teacher teaches economics, and then the man is woefully inadequate in comparison!).
His direct knowledge of the military is that of some 40 years ago, and much has changed since! His recent military knowledge has come from the very place that anyone who eventually occupies the whitehouse will seek the same knowledge, the Joint Chiefs! ...and as far as I'm concerned I fear a McVain who would try to tell the Joint Chiefs their job becasue he thinks he knows more than they do, and he has just the personal make-up to do such!
I just saw a McVain "talking head" stating that the patriotism of those who have served in uniform is greater than an American who never served in uniform but had been successful in the private sector creating the profits to pay the wages and buy the equipment of those patriots in uniform! Who are these McVain people? So, from McVain's own debate mouth "patriotism outweighs profit" (he is addressing the ONE strength he has sold to the masses, his service record) means that every American who has not served in uniform is less than him because he has!
New McVain adv "when McVain was a POW, he was inspired by Reagan and became a Reagan footsoldier"....REagan was not in office, or even much on the national stage, when McVain was a POW, and he divorced and married money and his daddy-in-law got him elected to the US House, and he has been a footsoldier for special interests in AZ ever since!


Robert
Why don't YOU do something useful, work out at the Thornton YMCA? Maybe some endorphins will be released; then your anger will subside. You can possibly control that nasty temper you have and Denver will profit from a better citizen so will Murphy's Law! I know THers would like you to obtain more endorphins!

"Exercise stimulates the release of endorphins within approximately 30 minutes from the start of activity. These endorphins tend to minimize the discomfort of exercise and are even associated with a feeling of euphoria. In fact, a combination of exercise and antidepressants has been particularly effective in treating depressive and anger behaviors in rats."

If McCain gets the nod
If McCain gets the nod, he will pick Lindsey Graham as his V-P. Graham was his side kick in the gang of 14 and his failed amnesty plan. As a Independent in a liberal state(WA)I won't get to vote until Nov. and I won't be casting a vote for McCain. He will give more of what we are getting now from GW on our borders.

maguana
well, I would be all for Grahamnesty as McVain's VP, as long as he has to resign his US Senate seat to run for VP because then we can get another conservative like Jim Demint in the Us Senate; hopefully, Grahamnesty will be defeated for a return trip to Washington in any event. Come on South Carolina!

Robert you're hopelessly ignorant
Everyone knows you DON'T live in TX, but Denver, CO, excuse me Thornton, CO! But you’re very good at playing dumb! This is another one of your non-stop lies. Along with having a federal badge, being a Navy Capt...How Rich is that? Any Naval Capt. would use proper grammar & be able to spell! Also being a lawyer, who I guarantee could spell and write! Let's see, you've claimed to be a DNA expert, yet you don't capitalize it, that's odd. Sat on a jury, what in a mock trial? So have I, it was on a syndicated TV show, so I'm one up on you there, but this is the 1st time I've said anything about it and I only use it to show how asinine your claims are!

What base in TX are you at, answer quick or Google it, how fast can you look it up? I've lived near many bases, have several family members in the military with high security clearance and you are a fraud. You're the nose picker and I wouldn't touch your keyboard with a 100 foot pole, now go run & tell your parents that some chick on TH is calling you on your lies. Oh no, you can't do that, they'll ban you from your computer, won't they? Plus they won't pay the "fees" for your gym membership anymore. Poor Robert, not enough serotonin, go down some more pills and get back when you can post without cutting and pasting. Maybe you’ll speak with intelligence, grammatically correct...IF that's possible!

Lilly that is brilliant
Seriously - I'm a "Chris Rock" Republican. ("Crime? I'm a Conservative. Prostitution? I'm a Liberal")

Get the feds out of our face, stop social engineering with the tax code, reduce the fed to functions enumerated in the Constitution, let the states handle the rest.

But who sleeps with who, who smokes what, etc. is NO BUSINESS of the gov't, much less the freaking incompetent feds. Not that my state guys are much better but I can drive over and scream at them.

wrightsrong52
I don't think that even Ron Paul would go for complete right? Laissez-faire capitalism and the abolishment of ALL government sponsored social programs.

Well Charlie, Now you know
charlie writes: Saturday, February, 02, 2008 12:55 PM
McVain

"I just saw a McVain "talking head" stating that the patriotism of those who have served in uniform is greater than an American who never served in uniform."



Why an arrogant jackass like Wobbie would support an arrogant jackass like McShame.

IF Wobbie really is supporting McShame, it's only until he steals the nomination so that Wobbie and his Democrat friends can slaughter the man to help the Hildabeast get into the White House to finish the job her slimy husband started of destroying this country.

I too believe that if McShame was elected, he would try to steamroll the Joint Chiefs and all of his other advisors and get us into a bad situation.

But, speaking as a veteran, I can tell you that the vast majority of us DO NOT consider ourselves more patriotic than those who didn't serve in uniform.
Unless those who didn't serve are the types like Wobbie who never has and never would serve, but would gladly spit on those who did/do serve, as he does in these thread on a regular basis.

The U.S. Military would never let someone with such ABYSMALLY POOR English, Spelling, Grammar, and reading comprehension skills enter their ranks since the day it became an all volunteer service.
They especially wouldn't give a Commission to someone so illiterate when they can pick from the cream of the college graduates.

I seriously doubt Wobbie could even pass the ASVAB tests to get to the second phase of enlisting.


Finally, you're right about Reagan.
McCain couldn't have known about Reagan, or become a "Reagan footsoldier" while he was a POW because the greatest things Reagan had accomplished to that point were being president of the Screen Actors Guild and a partial term as Governor of California.

Hardly something McShame would learn about from a cell in the Hanoi Hilton.

baseballdoc
Thanks

John Doe ...The quintessential...
Renaissance man :)

McCain ...was a Reagan...
Foot STOOL...the original quote was garped and has somehow propagated forward incorrectly. :)

Sorry str8t talk, but you're wrong.
str8t_talk writes: Saturday, February, 02, 2008 1:35 PM
Robert you're hopelessly ignorant
"But you’re very good at playing dumb!"



I really hate to correct a fellow Conservative, but Wobbie IS NOT playing dumb. He's IS DUMB.

No make that REALLY DAMNED STUPID, bordering on colossally ignorant.

If one were to take everything Wobbie knows and put it on the sharp point of a pin, there'd be LOTS of room left for the vast knowledge of the rest of the world to be compressed to fit in the same spot.

Charlie
I hope you are right because that would be one silver lining in an otherwise black cloud if McShame gets the nod; at least we would get rid of his BB and SC would get a new Senator.

There is one problem with that senario and I am sure that this was why the governor did not come out and endorse an apponent of McShame and that is these facts 1) The Dems are not even running an opponent against LG 2) If he does get elected as VP (remote chance) the governor would get to nominate his replacement who would have 2 yrs of incumbency at the next election.

But the problem that kills the silver lining is the sorry AH if he is picked as a running mate will NOT resign (just like a Democrat). When the Dems win by the biggest landslide in 175 years good ole' BB Linsey will just return to the Senate just like his buddy John Bandaid Butt Kerry.

Hey Cha'les! :-)
.

I'm listening to Romney as I am Writing.
I don't like him. I agreed with almost everything he said about family. No argument
there. He said that that our military is important. OK, no problem. But I thought that
McCain was much better on that discussion.
Whether you agree or disagree with the war, you can agree with what McCain said - support our
troops including treating them well when they get
home. Romney's theme was - a strong military,
as in, let's keep this war going. End of that
discussion.

The biggest laugh, however, was how he kept talk
ing about the importance of the American people.
Now when I think about the American people,
I think about the average Joe. Those who need to
go to work to pay the bills.

Whatever, he may say or even think about that
group of people, his message is that he will
address the guys who make the big bucks, the
obscene bucks, those who are as rich as and
even richer than he is.

I hope that someone brings up that evil
RESTRIBUTION OF INCOME. I am itching to talk
about that subject. And I will start with
President Bush's source of wealth.

Meanwhile Go Hillary, and I hope Obama is her
running mate.

viruddh...duh!
so you dont like people who are more successful than you...awwww gee breaks my heart! well ..i have never resented anyone for being richer,
better looking,smarter, inheriting more, being stronger than me,etc. get off your dead a** and make more money,get plastic surgery, lift weights
read more, we are the architects of our fate..
pretty much! iam not rich or handsome...but i dont resent others...your sick as far as iam concerned! typical hillary-clone!
elvis

Virruddh.
Keep it nice. No need to get personal.

viruddh: Exactly what kind of a low-life

worm are you????

Charlie and I have been friends for a long time...

What a twit you are!!!!!!!!




very rude writes:
Anne
"Hey Cha'les! :-)"

****
Isn't it a little early in the day to be putting
out your mating call, even for you.

Isn't a little early to be insulting the women on the thread, or did your parents raise you to be a rude, crude, socially unacceptable boor, instead of a gentlemen.

Sink or swim
"What is amusing is that so many liberal commentators were surprised when the Clinton apparat, with the unhesitation of a shark, chose the latter option."

No, they shouldn’t have been, though the irony lives on. Move it over dot ug, who staunchly defended Clinton before, have moved on to Obama. Really what choice did they have, considering their beginning to move passed the Clinton ordeal as it were?

ChalieS Anne here it is
http://www.apunkachoice.com/movies/mov388/index.html He's taken his name from a "C" movie; and here's a review: http://www.rediff.com/movies/2005/jul/22viruddh.htm
No wonder the rude gibe!

CharlieS...You're correct re: roberto, I was just trying to go light, my bad! ;) LOL

CONSERVATIVES FOR MITT
MITT SUPPORTERS, GO TO MITT'S WEBSITE AND CONTRIBUTE TO HIS CAMPAIGN TO STOP THE MCCAIN TRAIN WRECK EXPRESS.

ITS NOT TOO LATE TO GIVE MITT SOME MOMENTUM GOING INTO SUPER TUESDAY AND TAKING THIS THING ALL THE WAY TO THE CONVENTION, AND THEN ALL THE WAY TO THE WHITEHOUSE. ROMNEY IS THE LAST AND BEST HOPE OF THE REMAINING REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES TO PRESERVE CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES AND MAINTAIN THE REAGAN COALITION INTACT.

FLOOD MITT'S SITE AT http://www.mittromney.com/homepage AND GIVE TO HIS CAMPAIGN, EVEN IF IT ISN'T A LOT. EVERY CONTRIBUTION HELPS.

LJ...
vr & tr are in the same boat...the one with all the holes in it. Or maybe the "Titanic," soon they will hit an iceberg in the form of a real man in public where they can't hide behind the anonymity of a computer. When they make their rude comments, they'll never see what "hit" them; down, down, down...into an abysmal pit.

Str8: You mean Viruddah doesn't shine!
"AB shines, Viruddh doesn't"

Now why does that not surprise me??? LOL




Str8.. tr THINKS he's discredited

Reagan?

Apparently he THINKS that because "no one has said a thing about it."

What an arrgoant fool! tr doesn't get it that most of us just ignore the majority of is rantings.... nor does he get why he gets banned so often...





(I believe that I read on some other thread that he has children. Now THERE'S a depressing thought!)




Frankly I'll vote for ANY Republican...
over Clinton or Obama. I won't risk more liberal supreme court justics. Those liberal justices have impact on our country that goes FAR beyond a particular presidency. I'm sorry but I think all the conservatives saying they'll just stay home in November have no right to whine and complain when the country goes even MORE to hell under Obama and Clinton.
I've got issues with McCain. I disagree with some of the choices he's made in the past (open immigration with no concern for the borders, opposing the Bush Tax Cuts, etc ) But I've also got issues with all the OTHER Republican candidates: Romney is a phony opportunist that has shown he'll change his stances for political gain. I can't trust that guy. Huckabee's fiscal conservatism is questionable. Ron Paul is kind of wackjob when it comes to foreign policy. The point is NONE Of them are perfect but they are ALL better than 4 - 8 years of the Clintons or Obama. There's too much at risk to sit home in November and let the Dems take over. Don't forget - they have a Democratic congress that'll aid and abet them in their tax and spend, pro-abortion rights, politically correct, pacifist ways. Staying home is a STUPID idea if you seriously care about conservative causes.

Anne Oh MY
Populating the US with more libs to pollute the nation??? Help, maybe they'll see the error and run the other way, I've seen that happen many times. Yes, I ignore and I don't think he can count the times he's been banned, even if he took off both shoes! ;)

How can a moron discredit anyone? Isn't that an oxymoron? LOL

Can I stop laughing now?
tr writes: Saturday, February, 02, 2008 4:02 PM
str8t talk
i've pretty much discredited the republican idol reagan here and no one has said a thing about it.



ROFLMAO!!!! Seriously, Can I stop laughing?

DAMN TR, are you trying to replace Wobbie as the biggest idiot on TH?
YOU discredited REAGAN?? DON'T make me laugh.

An idiot like you will NEVER be able to discredit someone as great as Reagan was, not even close.

The reason "no one has said a thing about it." is because your THE GARBAGE YOU POST is never worth replying to. Get over yourself and go pick up the Wobbie droppings in your yard.

Str8, "How can a moron discredit
anyone? Isn't that an oxymoron?"

And then the flamming idiot says... "you clearly read my posts, that's why i get banned you dunce."

Does that make any sense to you... or anyone? Is he saying that he gets banned because I read his posts???


Now, in tr's defense, that might just make sense to him since 100% of libs truly believe that whatever happens is actually SOMEBODY ELSE'S FAULT!!!!

Never would they comprehend that maybe things happen to them... such as being banned, because of their own inane, abusive, insulting posts.

Nawwwwwww, couldn't ever be THAT!!!





CharleS
Two thumbs up...Way up! LOL
They need to put that on here, one for thumbs up, another for thumbs down and you are only allowed to click one time per your moniker. I know who would get more thumbs up and more thumbs down! ;) Keep a running tabulation on each poster, now that would be very interesting indeed!

McCain a moderate?
If McCain is moderstae 'maybe' I could vote for him. But McCain isn't close to being a moderate. He is clearly a liberal. I don't vote for liberals. Exactly why I won't vote for Huck. The defense of Huck from so called conservatives is stupid. Huck had very liberal positions and was all for McCain's amnesty when we were fighting it. He is as corrupt as Bill Clinton and easy to find out about. I despise him more than Clinton because Huck does it all in the name of Christ. Some people are too lazy to check him out. Huck's obvious support of McCain should tell you everything you need to know about him.

Anne as you & I
both now from personal experience with "libs" it ISN'T their fault. NO, they can't be held responsible for ANYTHING. Their mouths just run away and they can't control their tongue. A good horse bit might help!

Yet, they're the first in line after a natural catastrophe for the handouts instead of cleaning up. That's the difference b/w a Republican state that has a tornado wipe out a town and a Democratic welfare section that has a hurricane flood their "government" housing. The Rep are looking for what work to do first and the Dims are holding out their hands, saying "help me," even those who can help themselves!

Thank goodness Reagan came down on the Vets, I know a few who should NOT be on disability, due to inheritance and the ability to work. Yet they've lied, cheated and continued to steal taxpayers' money. We need to clean up welfare too while we're at it!

Yes I'm a coldhearted conservative, because I think people should WORK for a living. Novel idea isn't it?

correction to 4:57 post
1st word KNOW not now...

It's funny...tr
For a person who gets banned more than anyone I know, that you would flag me! LOL I was merely quoting you when you said "compassionate conservative" was an oxymoron. The opposite would be a coldhearted conservative in "YOUR" eyes.

The libs certainly can dish it out, but they cannot take it. I merely said that we need to crackdown on vets on disability who should NOT be and welfare people who should NOT be on those programs! If that stung, maybe you're one of them, I have NO idea! It wasn't a personal attack, like the ones you're so notorious for and always get banned for.

You are the one calling names, calling me a JERK? Now that's a personal attack!

Elvis
I am devastated. Elvis was the King. Is the
King. Oh well, Elvis impersonators are sort of creepy.

But to get down to business. This is your post
to me:

"so you dont like people who are more successful than you...awwww gee breaks my heart! well ..i have never resented anyone for being richer,
better looking,smarter, inheriting more, being stronger than me,etc. get off your dead a** and make more money,get plastic surgery, lift weights
read more, we are the architects of our fate..
pretty much! iam not rich or handsome...but i dont resent others...your sick as far as iam concerned! typical hillary-clone!"
*********

Please, please, please I want you to find me one
sentence in any post under this column or any
other that would make you think that I am
jealous of anyone for any reason. I don't know
where you got that idea. Maybe too much embalming fluid.

My whole reason for coming on to TH is to tell
people that I am for those people who want to
help the disadvantaged. I am not one of the
disadvantaged. I want to live in an America
that says we care about those who are being
left behind and we believe that it is the
working and middle class that have made America
great, and they are the ones that America should
be encouraging and protecting.



Moderate Mark
You can thank the Clintons for chumming with China, they both received money for their campaigns from China, now tell me, are they Democrats? Yes, and how much does Bill Clinton get paid for a speech?

Then there's Al Bore, who spouts Global Warming, but doesn't live it, he uses more electricity in his mansion per year than the whole state of TN.

Then we have Sheryl Crow touting one piece of toilet paper, don't shake her hands, while she flies around in her private jet spewing carbon emissions.

George Soros, gave $5mil to MoveOn.org, several million to gun control, head of Center for Public Integrity (now there's an organization with NO integrity!) He funds terrorism, drug dealers, and other ill-reputes.

I could go on, but you get my drift. I'm sure there are dirty republicans as well, but let's not generalize, okay?

here's something to consider
"John McCain's lifetime rating of 82.3% from the American Conservative Union is often cited as proof that he is conservative. Here is a closer look at that 82.3 rating.

First, a rating of 82.3 is not really that high. It puts Senator McCain in 39th place among senators serving in 2006, the latest year for which the ACU has its ratings posted online. For that most recent year in particular, McCain scored only 65, putting him in 47th place for that year. Ben Nelson (D-NE) and Chuck Hagel (R-NE), for example, scored 64 and 75, respectively, in 2006."

McVain's ACU average for 1998 - 2006? 74!

Why is it
that every reasonable debate about every moderately good or very good article turns into utter insanity and banality with the likes of Robert, Lilly, and tr? And the people who try to respond to them as well.

What starts with about 20 to 40 good, thoughtful comments (sometimes personalized, but still thoughtful and informative) deteriorates into barbs and insults, name-calling and staccato mud-slinging. This web site is getting ridiculous.

Townhall needs to revise its little "Email it, print it, flag as offensive" line of options. Like Amazon, Town Hall needs to add a button whereby we can click and indicate a comment that adds nothing to the discussion. Then, after 20 or 30 clicks on a comment adding nothing, that comment should be removed. If would solve TONS of aggravation and -- leave the creme.

If only... about 50% of the comments on this thread would be removed. It would certainly save many of us from scrolling ad naseum to read the worthwhile stuff.

Hey, Townhall -- you listening???

I can't
If you vote for McCain in the primary then you are excluding me. I will not vote for McCain (or Paul.)

I will join you to vote for Romney.

The only polls that matter are the elections themselves. And the MSM cannot even call those as they are happening. The MSM cannot predict anything with polling.

The NYT and LAT both endorse McCain. For me, that is enough not to vote for him. No need to go over the litany McCain's betrayals to conservatives.

I cannot vote for McCain. Don't try to make me. I won't do it.

McCain is WRONG About the Middle East
I keep hearing McCain say one thing over and over that is patently untrue and underscores how he is so wrong about the Middle East. Here's the problem. McCain fundamentally does not understand the type of war that is going on in the Middle East, nor does he understand how America's presence there is perceived.

In his own words: "...It's not American presence, it's American casualties. We have American troops all over the world today and nobody complains about it because we're defending freedom." (NYT January 24, 2008 Republican Debate)

McCain, you are wrong - it IS about our presence there! It has always been about our presence there!!! This isn't Japan or Germany who welcomed us there as liberators. What McCain fails to understand is this: we're not dealing with people who think like us. We're not dealing with people who can be appeased with money or concessions. The minute we step foot in the Middle East, we're on their turf. And to them, it's not only personal, it's religious! The sooner we can bring about stability in Iraq the better, because we need to be out of there the very next day, NOT IN 100 YEARS!!! Anyone else that thinks otherwise does not understand the region at all! The only thing McCain understands is that we need to win at all cost there. Well, it's the "at all cost" that is going to be his undoing, and ours if we let him.

New Party Needed
The Republican Party is such a BIG JOKE!!! A new Party is needed to represent the Conservative American! I have had it with the Republican Party, first it is Bush with Globalism, Amnesty, Big Spending, DC Gun Ban backing, etc etc. To think of McCain as the Next President is just more than i can Stand! I will under no circumstances Vote for McCain! I will vote 3rd party or stay home if Mccain wins nominee, and for all those who say we will have a Dem in the White House if conservatives dont vote for McCain. Let Me Say It: I DO CARE LET THE CHIPS FALL WERE THEY MAY FALL!! I am prepared to endure the Pain!

New Party Needed
The Republican Party is such a BIG JOKE!!! A new Party is needed to represent the Conservative American! I have had it with the Republican Party, first it is Bush with Globalism, Amnesty, Big Spending, DC Gun Ban backing, etc etc. To think of McCain as the Next President is just more than i can Stand! I will under no circumstances Vote for McCain! I will vote 3rd party or stay home if Mccain wins nominee, and for all those who say we will have a Dem in the White House if conservatives dont vote for McCain. Let Me Say It: I DONT CARE LET THE CHIPS FALL WERE THEY MAY FALL!! I am prepared to endure the Pain!

Who would McCain put on the Court?
If you are concerned about the Supreme Court, please read this article before voting:

realchange.townhall.com

Socialism/Communism, now + imperialism
Sadly, those who label themselves as Conservatives are fully in love with the above. While Ron Paul is considered and idiot when in reality is the only one that speaks in full respect of the Founding Fathers and never to forget, Ronald Reagan, whom I admire as a legal immigrant of 52 years and a staunch conservative Republican, becoming a one soon after granted citizenship. Sadly, as America's guns roar all over the world, the borders mean nothing more really than toilet paper and the laws of immigrant there to be broken so that all may just walk in and help to destroy the America, ripped out of another Empire so long ago. Yes hearing the gun threats of George W. the sound more and more like that guy by the name of Adolph. McCain sounds even worse and scary than that first Hitler. No apology as I read the legacy of the Founding Fathers.

Ever notice the trouble makers?
Reading a suggestion up this blog that we be able to flag offensive remarks and they be automatically removed after a predetermined number of protest, which I think is an excellent idea and I support it, have you noticed that most of those who engage in flame wars also can not spell, punctuate, or speak in coherent complete sentences? What is wrong with these democrats? That is a retorical question of course, and the answer to it is self evident.

The Cincinnati Kid took me to task for saying Reagan was a conservative. He is on solid ground in pointing out things Reagan did that were not in keeping with absolute conservative principles. You are correct Kid. He did some things that I didn't agree with then, but he was still pretty darn good overall, and in comparision with the crowd we have now, he looks even better. And given the chance, I would vote for him again.

I enjoyed most of you that participated in this discussion and reading your views. I appreciate all of you being here and doing this.

I am going to the polls Tuesday here in Georgia and vote for Romney. If McCain is the nominee in November, I will vote for Jefferson Davis and pray for this nation because we sure going to need it.

Courts concern you? Do not vote Romney
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/07/25/romney _jurist_picks_not_tilted_to_gop/


Governor Mitt Romney, who touts his conservative credentials to out-of-state Republicans, has passed over GOP lawyers for three-quarters of the 36 judicial vacancies he has faced, instead tapping registered Democrats or independents -- including two gay lawyers who have supported expanded same-sex rights, a Globe review of the nominations has found.

Of the 36 people Romney named to be judges or clerk magistrates, 23 are either registered Democrats or unenrolled voters who have made multiple contributions to Democratic politicians or who voted in Democratic primaries, state and local records show. In all, he has nominated nine registered Republicans, 13 unenrolled voters, and 14 registered Democrats.

Courts concern you? Do not vote Romney
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/07/25/romney _jurist_picks_not_tilted_to_gop/


Governor Mitt Romney, who touts his conservative credentials to out-of-state Republicans, has passed over GOP lawyers for three-quarters of the 36 judicial vacancies he has faced, instead tapping registered Democrats or independents -- including two gay lawyers who have supported expanded same-sex rights, a Globe review of the nominations has found.

Of the 36 people Romney named to be judges or clerk magistrates, 23 are either registered Democrats or unenrolled voters who have made multiple contributions to Democratic politicians or who voted in Democratic primaries, state and local records show. In all, he has nominated nine registered Republicans, 13 unenrolled voters, and 14 registered Democrats.

Michael
writes, "He was paying -- for once, and for the time being anyway -- heed to his critics at National Review and his boosters at The Weekly Standard. Memo to Rush Limbaugh: You have been heard.

And what were the Democrats up to when the Republicans were receiving the coordinates of a clear flight path?"

Sums it up pretty well. For the time being, previously known as saying Alito was too conservative. Yes sir, we have our coordinates, what time does the assault begin? As lowly privates in the republican army, we are not allowed to question our orders or why we are attacking friendly forces.

talent scout
I thought your unit was supposed to ensure the conformity of the fringe group that wants to start carrying gold around in pouches instead of paper money. Baseless attacks about Romney's appointments to Massachusett's clerkships is sidetracking your soldiers and bogging them down. Everyone knows, nobody is appointed to anything in Massachusetts without an ok from Uncle Ted. The state is a wholly owned and operated subsidiary of Kennedy Inc.

If you do not disengage and reacquire the coordinates assigned to your unit, I may have to recommend you be relieved of duty.:)

What a nutty post
Hitchhiker writes: 11:47 PM
talent scout
I thought your unit was supposed to ensure the conformity of the fringe group that wants to start carrying gold around in pouches instead of paper money.
-------
ts:
Sure ya did goofus




----------
Hitchhiker writes:
Baseless attacks about Romney's appointments to Massachusett's clerkships is sidetracking your soldiers and bogging them down.
-------
ts:
What is baseless is you saying "clerkships" and never mention JUDGES.

Do you not understand a JUDGE is not a clerk?
Guess not.
Romney appointed 2.....
Oh heck, read it again, ask for help is you cannot read it.

quote:

Of the 36 people Romney named to be JUDGES OR clerk magistrates, 23 are either registered Democrats or unenrolled voters who have made multiple contributions to Democratic politicians or who voted in Democratic primaries, state and local records show. In all, he has nominated nine registered Republicans, 13 unenrolled voters, and 14 registered Democrats.


-------

Hitchhiker writes:
Everyone knows, nobody is appointed to anything in Massachusetts without an ok from Uncle Ted. The state is a wholly owned and operated subsidiary of Kennedy Inc.
------
ts:
Romney was the Governor, not Ted.
What a charge you make, if believed it makes Romney 10 times the wimp I already knew him to be.

------
Hitchhiker writes:
If you do not disengage and reacquire the coordinates assigned to your unit, I may have to recommend you be relieved of duty.:)
------
ts:
Recommend away goofus

Arby and Black Prince,
I agree with both your posts 100%. The TH trolls who come here to be obnoxious just become boring.
Fortunately one can scroll past their insipidly ignorant remarks, but it does interfere with the procession of commonsense thought and honest
debate.

These trolls sole goal is to attempt to derail any discussion while they seek negative attention, call names, hurl insults, refuse to acknowlege true facts, and take the posting atmosphere straight into the sewer.

for Vic
Vic writes: "For my edification, just what attributes would you assign to someone to make them a member of this nefarious class as opposed to normal conservatives or 'center right'."

I'll be happy to.

What separates the "far right" from the "normal conservatives" is the former's embrace of bigotry.

The far-right part of the GOP is:

Nativist
Anti-Hispanic and Pro-White
Sexist
Anti-Gay
Anti-Youth
and has Victorian attitudes about sex

Normal conservatives simply have a set of conservative principles that deal with the relationship of Man to Government. And they welcome ANYONE into their movement who endorses those principles.

"Mad Magazine" had them pegged 40 years ago when they wrote:
"A Superpatriot is someone who claims to love America
While hating 80% of the people who live in it"


for lilly
lilly writes: "You have sought to...mandate private behavior according to standards imposed by an extremist religious fringe....Stick to being bankers and brokers. We might even vote for you to be the bankers and brokers. Leave the people stuff to us: we're better at it."

Now that is a "Grand Bargain" I could live with!

The GOP used to be a party that valued personal privacy and freedom of choice:

Barry Goldwater's wife founded the Arizona chapter of Planned Parenthood.

The GOP was pro-choice till the 1970s.

As late as the late 1970s, the National Review was seriously considering proposals to decriminalize marijuana. They also noted that gay people have the SAME economic concerns as straights--they're taxpayers, they're hurt by inflation and unemployment, etc.

The Faustian bargain that the economic conservatives made with the Southern social conservatives changed all that. They welcomed into the GOP the descendants of the old Dixiecrats (who used to be Democrats), and the GOP has never been the same ever since.

That bargain needs to be renegotiated now. It's reaching the end of its useful service life.

Black Prince
Your post at 0856 was excellent and I could not agree more. Reagan regretted certain things he did and indeed, left the Dems for the GOP after the commies in Hollywood were exposed.

McShamenesty is an insane, vindictive, angry-at-the-world midget, who thinks he's "owed."

While I'm hoping for a brokered convention that sweeps in Thompson/Hunter, I'll vote Mitt.

http://noliberalspin.townhall.com/
"Where liberals fear to tread."

for maguana
maguana writes: "As a Independent in a liberal state(WA)I won't get to vote until Nov. and I won't be casting a vote for McCain."

If you live in WA, don't even bother voting for President at all.

The GOP can't win WA no matter whom they nominate. So the Dem candidate gets all of WA's electoral votes.

It's the same problem I have living in Massachusetts, or a Democrat voter has living in Idaho. Thanks to the winner-take-all rule and the Electoral College, we're disenfranchised. Our votes cannot possibly affect the outcome.
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