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Monday, March 26, 2007
Michael Barone :: Townhall.com Columnist
Gore's Faith Is Bad Science
by Michael Barone
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Al Gore likes to present himself as a tribune of science, warning the world of imminent danger. But he is more like an Old Testament prophet, calling on us to bewail our wrongful conduct and to go and sin no more.

He starts off with the science. The world's climate, he reports, is getting warmer. This accurate report is, however, not set in historic context. World climate has grown warmer and cooler at various times in history. Climate change is not some unique historic event. It is the way the world works.

Not this time, Gore says. What's different is that climate change is being driven by human activity -- to wit, increasing carbon dioxide emissions. Which means, he says, that we have to sharply reduce those emissions. But what the scientists tell us is that some proportion of climate change is caused by human activity and some proportion by natural causes -- and that they can only estimate what those proportions are. The estimates they have produced have varied sharply. The climate change models that have been developed don't account for events of the recent past, much less predict with precision events in the future.

To which the prophet replies, with religious intensity, that all debate should be over. Those scientists with inconvenient views should be defunded and silenced. We should replace scientific inquiry with faith. We should have faith that climate change -- "global warming" -- is caused primarily by human activity. And we should have faith that the effects will be catastrophic, with rising oceans flooding great cities and pleasant plains and forests broiled by a searing sun.

Even The New York Times bridles at this. After Gore won the Academy Award for his film on climate change, the Times printed an article in which respected scientists -- not Republicans, not on oil company payrolls -- charged that Gore has vastly exaggerated the likelihood of catastrophic effects.

When you read the fine print of even the scientific reports that Gore likes to cite, you find the same thing. Gore foresees a 20-foot rise in sea level -- 240 inches. The IPCC panel report foresees a maximum of 23 inches. Gore says that "our civilization has never experienced any environmental shift remotely similar to this." Geologist Don Easterbrook says there have been shifts up to "20 times greater than the warming in the past century."

Science says that we should learn more about possible bad effects of climate change and calculate rationally how we can mitigate them. As the economic journalist Robert Samuelson points out, there is little that we can feasibly do in the short term to reduce carbon emissions, though over the long term we may be able to develop substitutes for carbon fuels.

As the environmentalist Bjorn Lomberg points out, the Kyoto Treaty that Gore helped to write (but which the Clinton administration never asked the Senate to ratify) would produce very little reduction in climate change at very high cost.

But religious prophets are not concerned about costs. Gore calls for an immediate cessation of new carbon-burning facilities. In other words, stop economic growth. But stopping economic growth in the developing world means consigning millions to miserable poverty. And we know what stopping economic growth in the developed world can mean.

Read the history of the 1930s: fascism, communism, world war. There are worse things than a rise of 1 or 2 degrees Centigrade.

The natural human yearning for spirituality has produced in many people educated in secular-minded universities and enveloped in an atmosphere of contempt for traditional religion a faith that we vulgar human beings have a sacred obligation not to inflict damage on Mother Earth. But science tells us that the Earth and its climate have been constantly changing.

Gore and his followers seem to assume that the ideal climate was the one they got used to when they were growing up. When temperatures dropped in the 1970s, there were warnings of an impending ice age. When they rose in the 1990s, there were predictions of disastrous global warming. This is just another example of the solipsism of the baby boom generation, the pampered and much-praised age cohort that believes the world revolves around them and that all past history has become irrelevant.

We're told in effect that the climate of the late 1950s and early 1960s was, of all those that have ever existed, the best of all possible climates. Not by science. But as a matter of faith.

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About The Author
Michael Barone is a Fox News Channel contributor and co-author of The Almanac of American Politics. He is Senior Political Analyst for the Washington Examiner and a Resident Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, a Fox News Channel contributor and co-author of The Almanac of American Politics.
 
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Let Them Lead by Example
As a conservative who takes the "conserve" root of my world view seriously, I tend to live in a minimalist manner. But, I note that the good Mr. Gore, and most of his greenie entourage spectacularly fail to follow my modest example. Perhaps if we shut off the utilities to Greenpeace, the Sierra Club, and the rest of these organizations, and refused to sell gasoline or any other fossil fuel to anyone on their membership lists we might suddenly make global warming stop dead in its tracks. I get a whiff of hypocrisy in the air whenever these folks start to pontificate. I well recall that the late Murray Rothbard characterized much of the environmental movement as watermelons. Green on the outside, and red, pink and seedy on the inside. If we are in such a terrible pickle, (also green on the outside and seedy on the inside) then perhaps the global warming advocates could lead by example instead of trying to set up a totalitarian world state where they could maintain profligate lifestyles while the unwashed masses would suffer and perish, while eschewing "carbon."

Gore's a bad joke
I'll bet people freezing on the East Coast wouldn't mind a rise of a degree or two. They'd probably like even more.

The guy is literally Chicken Little.

Gore
Gore and the Hollywood left telling us to do as I say, not as I do. They don't know how to lead by example.

How does the average person decide
How does the average person, someone not driven by ideologies of the left or the right, decide where to come down on this issue?

There seem to be distinguished scientists on both sides of this issue, but more supporting global warming than not.

It's easy to distrust the left, where environmentalists can use global warming to advance some utopian fantasy.

It's easy to distrust the right, where some of the oppostion clearly comes from companies with vested interests in not pursuing the initiatives that might be necessary.

What do I make of Jerry Falwell denouncing global warming?

I'm really at a loss on this one.

AlGore is a funny man...

He really believes that it is okay for him to use ten times more energy than the average guy, and he even came up with a guilt assuaging agent, carbon offsets.

Pharisees and Sadducees and Politicians...

BrianR
If only Gore were just a bad joke. We could all laugh and he would soon go away. Problem is he's extremely dangerous to our country. In my opinion he's running the Scam of the Century with this "Carbon Offset" bull crap. He's trying his best to get the majority of Americans to fall for this scheme while working in collusion with the UN, toward a signing of the Kyoto treaty. And he stands to make millions.

If anyone wants to read about these so-called Carbon Offsets. What it is and whose behind it. Go to this link and other links on the page.

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/Climate_Change/What_You_Can_Do/carbon_offsets.asp

Evolution
I though Liberals were fans of Darwin

When our ancestor transverse the land bridge between Asia and America thousands of species were hunted to extinction; the horse and the dromedary only survived in Asia where they passed from America.

Have anyone seen a bumper sticker begging for the salvage of the killer bee or the fire ant, to save the nutria in the Louisiana swamps or the boa constrictor in the Florida everglades?

What are wild parrots doing on Telegraph Hill, in San Francisco?

How come we are helpless to eradicate these pests from our front yards yet; in Gore's mind, we can will the weather of the planet?

The Messianic delusion that we are not a child of nature but a God-ex-Machina of the planet’s climate is an escape into the future of the failed communist notion that humans are able to control and transform their own nature. With the proper tyranny.

The only difference is that environmentalists are even more psychotically delusional than communist were; after all, Marx only wanted to transform our economic relationships, while environmentalists pretend to lay claim to the whole system of human technology.

The "Religious Left"
Al Gore and others would demean the "Christian Religious Right" at every opportunity. But what he wants is to be a prophet for the "Neo-Pagan Religious Left" -- environmentalism, tree-hugging, Gaia, and more. Michael Barone and others rightly note that Gore's arguments are more faith than science, and he should be called on this. And this selling of indulgences -- er, carbon dioxide offsets -- please!

Watch on Google Video or You Tube a show from Channel 4 in England called "The Great Global Warming Swindle." You can only conclude from this show that, at the very least, the science is far from settled.




Gore is a loon
and for what could happen if Gore ever got his wishes come visit my blog "Juliet Smith's Diary".
http://www.peppermintsplace.townhall.com

Don't you wish
Thanks for the Heidelberg heads-up. Inevitably, Wikipedia reports, "Sponsors of the Heidelberg Appeal included the asbestos and tobacco industries," as thought that is all one really needs to know about any organization that doesn't fall in line with any most-favored position.

Don't you wish the tobacco-oil-asbestos-chemical industries would start contributing to the Sierra Club and announcing so loudly so the fact couldn't be used against us? I wonder if the Sierra Club would return the money?

To JayHub
The solution for people like you who can not determine who is correct due to conflicting scientific "opinion" is very easy. You say to yourself that the theory of global warming has not been advanced to the point that these radical solutions are required.

For the rest of us we know that the theories advanced by the AGW crowd are based on bad science in most cases and outright fraud in other cases. The companies that have come in favor of AGW all stand to make a profit in one way or another, most like Albore, in the area of selling carbon offsets.

The other thing you should do is like any other huge political issue involving new rule-making. FOLLOW THE MONEY. You can never go wrong withthat philosophy.

If a Republican had negotiated a treat with a foreign government that ws of financial benefit to themselves they would be in jail. Perhaps this is a good reason for firing some of those federal prosecutors.

Al Gore
I gave up believing in global warming as soon as Gore opened his mouth about it.Obviously,when anyone like Al Gore starts to support an issue such as Warming there is an underlying reason for it and it aint for the betterment of man kind.
He is known as a self centered Fat Cat whose only goal in life is to support Al Gore. If the liberal left would just keep the emission of hot air in check we would slow down "whatever warming" by 100%.

To ALL AGW proponents
The AGW supporters who post on here, it is time for a new phase. How about ya'll (take note Frigglesnitz) post on here what your PROPOSED SOLUTIONS for this issue are.

CO2 To the rescue
In reading through the last IPCC report I came across a chart showing the fluctuation of CO2, methane and temperature over the last four hundred years. http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/072.htm (couldn't get it to link) I am not a scientist but it looks to me that all three have had big swings that go up and down like clockwork. If the past is any guide to the future we should be in line for large scale cooling. It may very well be that the carbon we are pumping into the atmosphere will be the only thing saving us from a temperature drop. I think warm is better than cold.

Owlgore's Senate testimony
It is extremely difficult for me to watch this bird on TV. His insolent disrepect for Sen Inhofe was particularly impressive. And the zinc mine. It was a paternal bride from the old russian communist, Armand Hammer of Occidental Petroleum.

CO2
That should read four hundred thousand years and the link did show.

Vic
First off I believe warming is occuring. How much is anthropogenic is where the scientific debate should be. Then we look at our ability to have an impact. Fully implimenting Kyoto will ruin us, devestate the third world economicly and have little to no affect on warming. With the warming going on some areas will be winners and some losers. The best approach is helping those areas that are losers to adapt to the change. Of course that means government would not have a reason to take massive control of our energy usage which is the driving force behind all of this.

JayHub
You want to know what to do to figure it all out yourself?
Study the ancient history and learn for yourself just how many time the Earth has cooled and warmed, and realize that all of the serious Ice Ages came before man could do much more than build a cook fire.
The little Ice Age had cold temps but not extended Ice Sheets and only lasted a few hundred years.
The warming periods in between? No SUVs, no Electric power plants, no heavy industry, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Water levels? Fill a glass half full of ice cubes and then add water until the ice cubes exceed the rim of the glass. Set the glass in a warm spot and let the ice melt. Notice that the water level does not change as this happens?
What that tells you, a nonscientist, is that all the ice in the world that sits on water (Arctic Ice cap and huge ice sheets in the Antarctic) can melt and not raise the water level in the oceans even one teeny weeny bit.

The short answer is educate yourself, and the long answer is educate yourself. Think. Nothing else is required, no extensive deep research just simple every day stuff we haved to teach in High Schools.

BrianR: Thanks for the Suzuki link
I tried one of those bogus carbon offset calculators.

I am very conservative with energy use (because of the economics, because I'm fortunate in my situation, and because that's how I was raised), and I drive less than a third the national average, yet — according to the calculators — I would need to pay a $200 a year "indulgence" to some racket to assuage my carbon guilt.

Asking the calculator to use "average" numbers for a two-car family of 4 that takes one plane trip to visit grandma, the indulgence paid to Bonneville would be almost $700 a year.

I'm going to get right on that.

story
Many years ago (When I was married) me and the wife would occasionally go to the neighbor's farm to help milk and they would let us have a gallon of fresh moo juice. One winter's evening we were working away and one of the ladies there cut one that must have gone on for about 25 seconds. Me and the missus just about fell down laughing but the folks we were helping just ignored it because it happened frequently. The source of our amusement didn't seem to care much either.

It WAS funny.

Look Behind the Curtain
All this debate about the veracity of global warming ignores what the ultimate agenda of Gore et al is.

Chairman Mao and Vic touch upon it, but what so many people don't realize is that Marxism is taught on today's college campuses as the main philosophy, and this crowd looks at society and government as in need of economic control from above. I was in the college environment for 12 years, and know firsthand that professors disdain any thought of free enterprise.

This global warming scare is just another plan of attack on free enterprise with the goal of controlling business and people. Their plan IS to slow down the economy, even drive it into a recession or depression so that the government may step in and ration goods and services.

Don't bother arguing with them in terms such as "But your plan will slow the economy!" or "Your plan will make us even more dependent on sources of foreign energy!" or even "People won't be able to maintain their present lifestyle!"

When you say such things, they only say to themselves "Yes, that's exactly what we want to accomplish."

Our plan must be to draw back the curtain and educate people what their ultimate goals are, not dither about debating the scientific basis of the global warming scare. If we succeed in destroying the global warming argument, they will only come up with another scarecrow to push people into a Marxist economy.

Never buy a diet from a fat man
or patronize a bald barber. And don't take advice on lifestyle from a glutton -- both of food and of energy.

Someone ought to send Al Gore a list of the Seven Deadly Sins and tell him that if he wants some real work, he should check out Greed, Sloth, Gluttony, and Avarice just to start with, and he'll have enough work for a lifetime.

Someone also ought to warn him that morbidly obese men are more likely to develop diabetes, heart disease, gout, high blood pressure, and Alzeimer's Disease, thus putting an undue strain on the health care system to add to his stress on the food and energy sectors.

If I were Al Gore (and thanks be to God I am not), I'd hook up my treadmill to a generator and solve two problems with one solution.

Al, baby, until you have lost at least 100 lb. and cut your energy use by 50%, just keep it to yourself, okay?

P.S. I have no car, no air conditioning, no appliances other than stove and refrigerator and I frugally use washers and dryers that I have to pay $2.00 each to use. Socialism saves energy.....

TruLib
Excellent points to Vic.

If you really are a "True Liberal", as your moniker suggests, you are one of the first I've read on these pages that hasn't fallen into the standard leftist talking points on this subject.

Of course, "Lib" could also be short for "libertarian", which would make more sense in light of your opinions.

Either way, congratulations on a good post.

Like any self-absorbed tyrant
Al Gore brooks no opposition to his point of view. He refuses to debate those scientists more credentialed and more knowledgeable in climatology who questions his conclusions.

Most of the commenters on this thread responding Mr. Barone's succinct skepticism of Al Gore's bad faith offer more common sense than do the hysterics worrying over Earth's natural balancing cycle.

When the Earth trends toward its cooling phase, will Gore claim that the result is that his "savior efforts" halted the imminent doom of warming? Or will the Chicken Littles call for even further laws to halt the cooling?

In the history of humankind's literature, when man pits himself against nature, nature trumps man. It is the ultimate in hubris for Gore and his acolytes to dream otherwise.


Interesting Metaphor
So science is the ideal good and faith the opposite? That's the metaphor Barone frames by associating Gore's approach to global warming with unscientific faith. I agree, Gore is religious in his beliefs. Barone is the second TH author to use science vs religion as a metaphor in this ironic way, Coulter last week the first, though I doubt they're aware of it.

Primus54
Look to the original meaning of Liberal (prior to being hijacked by the left)



DA
Are we to take direction from a psychologist on the issue of warming?

To Trulib
First off, thanks for the response. Your response was (broken down):

Fully implimenting Kyoto will ruin us, devestate the third world economicly and have little to no affect on warming.


From the first part, I gather than you feel Kyoto is definitely NOT a viable solution.
_________________________________________________

With the warming going on some areas will be winners and some losers. The best approach is helping those areas that are losers to adapt to the change.

I gather from this response that instead of attemptng to stop global warming, we should be giving foreign aid to those countries that are impacted by GW?? True??
_________________________________________________

Of course that means government would not have a reason to take massive control of our energy usage which is the driving force behind all of this.

You are against goverment intervention.

From all of these responses I would gather that you believe warming is occurring but that it is not due to human activity and that we should increase FA to countries impacted.

No moonbats this AM?
Maybe Algore's exaggerations and downright lies have finally reached the point where he can't be defended. Or perhaps they're burned out on their usual immature deflection/projection technique. But I doubt it.

I've heard the reference to "Mission Accomplished," a banner put up by the aircraft carrier in a self-congratualatory nod to their crews and airmen, so many times I could barf. Same with the claim (false) that Bush said there was a link between Saddam and AlQuaeda. Just proves people can believe whatever they want, especially if they don't let facts get in their way.

On the other hand, I'm also sick of the "invented the internet" dig at Algore, who if you watch the tape, was only doing his normal tap dance around the truth, just like all the other loony left favorites, Jon Carey, Hitlery, BJ Clinton, Mike Moore, Hairy Reed, Nancy Pelousi, Murtha, etc., all very good congenital liars...I smoked quite a bit of rope in my day, but thank God, not so much that I became a mentally deficient dhimmicrat, lacking any discernment or logic.

Instead of making jokes about these nutjobs, we need to expose their dangerous agenda with catastrophic consequences as much as possible and refute their EnviroNazi propaganda with some common sense and real science.

Algore didn't do himself proud in front of the Senate Committee, with Barb Boxer (more like a Chihuahua) running interference. I say trot his fat azz up there once a week and we'll see how long it takes for his weak science and over-inflated ego to melt under bright lights and close scrutiny.

Word is getting out about this scam. I run into fewer people who buy into it, especially since it's been shown that Mars is warming also.

TruLib
He is not speaking about the evidence of global warming. He is talking about the reasons that people ignore the evidence.

Old Testament prophet?
Don't lump this clown in with the likes of Isaiah and Elijiah; they were right in what they were saying. Check the record...their prophecies came true! al-Gore is more like a false prophet that is tryig to lure people away with sewlling, empty words that will lead to their ultimate destruction.

Vic & DA
The countries that have signed on to Kyoto aren't performing to it's standards and the major developing economies (China and India) aren't going to have anything to do with it. Is the US to put the same group that brought us the Katrina response in charge of energy usage in order to bring about a half degree lowering of night time temperatures in Siberia?

Foreign aid to me is a dirty word(s). We have done a lot of damage with good intentions.

Government intervention will lower our standard of living and take away our freedom in return for a promise that the future will be better. For some reason at this point Social Security pops into my mind

DA - I and others are not ignoring the evidence but asking what it means and what the rational response should be .

Nuclear over global warming
Why the right goes nuclear over global warming

This is a very interesting article why many Republicans do not support Global Warming theory. Do you think the GOP is being short sighted for refusing Republican lawmakers a voice on pointing out problems with Global Warming? Do you think this is driven by politics not science?

LATIMES-LAST YEAR, the National Journal asked a group of Republican senators and House members: “Do you think it’s been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the Earth is warming because of man-made problems?” Of the respondents, 23% said yes, 77% said no. In the year since that poll, of course, global warming has seized a massive amount of public attention. The U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change released a study, with input from 2,000 scientists worldwide, finding that the certainty on man-made global warming had risen to 90%.

Meanwhile, Republicans who do believe in global warming get shunted aside. Nicole Gaudiano of Gannett News Service recently reported that Rep. Wayne Gilchrest asked to be on the Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming. House Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio refused to allow it unless Gilchrest would say that humans have not contributed to global warming. The Maryland Republican refused and was denied a seat.

Reps. Roscoe Bartlett (R-Md.) and Vernon Ehlers (R-Mich.), both research scientists, also were denied seats on the committee. Normally, relevant expertise would be considered an advantage. In this case, it was a disqualification; if the GOP allowed Republican researchers who accept the scientific consensus to sit on a global warming panel, it would kill the party’s strategy of making global warming seem to be the pet obsession of Democrats and Hollywood lefties.

READ MORE http://www.controlcongress.com


My "solution"
Since it doesn't appear that we will get proposed solutions I will start the ball rolling with my solutions. Of course, my solutions are based on my opinion that GW is not caused by human activity and is nothing more than a natural cycle which will ultimately swing in the other direction and become global cooling.

1. First stop ALL funding of so-called studies of AGW. This is only feeds the self-fulfilling prophesy as people vie for funding.

2. Have all of the existing studies, along with the data and methodology posted on the internet for all to see and review.

3. Initiate an investigation into Albore to determine if his actions were only a conflict of interest or actual fraud in signing and promoting Kyoto.

4. Continue to monitor global temperature via NASA and NOAA. if adjustments are made to measured temperatures then the methodology and reasoning should be published on the internet for all to see and comment on.

roadmaster
They NEVER get out of bed before 0900 and until they've smoked a few joints to get their little moonbat brains tuned-up, they won't show up. Tehran Kimmy is probably snoring as we type! haha.

In another absolutely shamless blog plug, worthy of my mentor BrianR, check out my three new articles. Guns and Congress themes. Keep the guns, get rid of Congress! haha.

TruLib
I don't know about YOU but I take my science from REAL Scientists with REAL PhD's not a C student (in Science) like Gore was, not even mentioning the fact that the Goreacle FLUNKED Divinity School (twice) and Law School once.


A Modest Proposal
To those zealots who insist that human sourced CO2 will "ruin the planet", here's what you can do to reduce CO2 emissions from humans & I'm *sure* you can save the planet by doing this - collectively cease exhaling permanently.

It's very simple

To all our environmentalist friends;

Worried about global warming?

Support building nuclear power plants and hydroelectric dams. End the anti-nuclear power movement, immediately.

Stop the (Clinton-era) program of dismantling hydroelectric dams to "make rivers wild again".

Curtail (that means "stop") price supports for ethanol fuel production. (It doesn't produce less CO2 when you factor in how much is created by the manufacturing process.)

If you want electric cars, develop new storage cell technology that does not require nickel hydride for battery cells. (A major pollutor in manufacture which- surprise!- also generates beaucoup CO2.)

If you want fluorescent lights to replace incandescents, develop ones that are no more expensive than the existing Edison-type bulbs, and generate the same number of lumens per erg input. Making them the same size globe as existing bulbs, so they will actually fit in existing lamps, etc., wouldn't hurt either.

And as for the idea of "carbon offsets" to "pay for" your vacations wherein you fly to environmental conferences at Davos- stay home.

And while you're at it, ditch the chauffeur-driven limousine. Get a minivan.

Anyone who has the brains, and intestinal fortitude, to advocate the above policies has my support and, I suspect, will have the support of a lot of others.

Anyone who insists that we must have a primitivist, "appropriate-technology" society (translation; think Middle Ages feudal type, with them as the nobles and the rest of us as the serfs- or as compost), is a neo-Luddite fanatic who deserves neither respect nor support.

As the old engineer's saying goes,

"If you tell us what you want the widget to do, and go away and let us work, nobody will get hurt. Especially not you."

Clear ether!

eon

al gore
The evolution of our species has hit a low indeed. Gore and his like are an example of how brazenly egotistical our species has become. It must be easy to stand up on the mount with all that money to fall back on and preach to those who could never comprehend in the slightest what it means to be as rich as these people. It's incredible how these individuals who are light years removed from the common citizens can assume to identify with any of us. Since Gore's unsuccessful bid for the White House he appears to have lost his mind. He rants and raves like a lunatic making statements that do nothing but play on the fear of uneducated people who will not take the time to look at historical facts easily obtained to at least compare data which shows exactly what Gore is....WRONG!

Lousy spokesman

Whatever the merits of his arguments, Al Gore is degrading the quality of the debate about global warming because: a) He's not a scientist; he's a politician. And b) He sets a bad example.

Ad hominem arguments are seldom intellectually valid, but unfortunately, Gore has already contaminated the debate -- such as it is -- by making such arguments himself. For instance: There is 100% agreement that global warming is anthropogenic, that it will be catastrophic and that pooh-poohers of his warnings are stooges of the oil industry; and most dramatically dishonest in his film, that a sea level rise of 20 feet is likely and that it will happen fast. He even managed to slip into his "documentary" a total non-sequitur about rigged elections in Florida.

Somebody has to upstage Mr. Gore and soon, and it has to be a "real" scientist, not the doubters on boards like this, who are also (I include myself) appalled by Al Gore personally, and often politically motivated as well. Heidi Cullen on the Weather Channel isn't the one, either. She's too into the show biz approach, with its preachiness and overreliance on computer animation and other special effects.

It's not a good enough counter-argument to call Gore's shtick "a scam" or accuse environmentalists of being crypto-Nazis. That's just the flip side of his attack on the oil industry. That turns the debate into a political football. Imagine if the "debate" 200 years ago over whether children should be vaccinated against smallpox had degenerated into personal acrimony. Only a handful of "true believers" would be getting vaccines and millions would still be dying. Probably few other vaccines would have been developed either, after the exhausting and futile battle over smallpox.

Wavelike epidemics would still be crippling society as a whole, even though, as in most plagues, most people survive. Again, imagine how disruptive it would be to have death rates spurt upwards sporadically and without warning, causing massive mortality and panic. Simple things like calling your reliable plumber, doing your grocery shopping or sending your children to school would become erratic and difficult.

"Sorry Mrs. Jones; all the third and fourth grade teachers died last week. Stores have declared a moratorium on all dairy and produce deliveries. All the tradesman in the county are refusing house calls for the next six months because they don't want to die."

I have felt that Albert Gore was insane ever since I read his book over 12 years ago. He's too sure of himself, and his recommendations sound too much like Marie Antoinette's. Only last week he called for a 90% reduction in CO2 output over the next generation, but he refused to reconsider his own 20-times-average lifestyle. How is that different from the French Queen, when told the peasants have no bread, proposing, "Then let them eat cake."?

Why not call for a 100% reduction? That's only 10% less feasible.

Even people who are insane can say things that are true. Shopping cart people who wander around cities babbling at blank walls and sleeping in doorways make sense part of the time. But their credibility is so limited that nobody pays attention to them. Just because Al Gore is nuts doesn't mean that fossil fuel use is innocuous, that thrift & efficiency are a waste of time, or that people shouldn't consider the future consequences of their actions. He's just not the right person to do it.

People will weary of this issue quickly if nobody more temperate comes into it. And that might be a bad thing.

Personally, I'd like to see the next stage of debate over warming attempt to determine whether it's apt to be negative. I live in an area that was 6,000' deep in ice only 10,000 years ago. Now it has thick forests, a charming seacoast and a pleasant lifestyle. Heidi Cullen did an interview series not long ago where the Governor of Minnesota was worried that future winters aren't going to be long enough. It makes you wonder how many public officials are insane. Arizona and Southern California are packed with people from the upper Midwest who are determined never to see another snowflake as long as they live.

GunnyG
So we should not only ignore him when it comes to science but when it comes to religion (his take on GW) as well.

Pappy Michael wrong
How could you spread such a viscious lie about Mr Gore? He uses 10 times the energy of the average American? No, no no. It's twenty times as much. And when asked if he would be willing to bring his use down to the average, he declined. Royalty, after all, can't be expected to live like the rest of us po' folk.

Vic
My God! Your solution would leave the government with no reason to interfere massively in energy usage. Obviously you should be burned at the stake. The alternative is to redirect the government into interfering massively in another area, like health care. Oh wait, never mind.

Lynne
I would say the North American continent not being covered with ice as evidence of GW.

To trulib
Agh, but you have a wrong assumption. You assume that the Government interferes in a linear fashion, meaning if they are working in one area, they will not work in another area. Government now has millions of permanently employed "busy-bodycrats" who will gladly interfere in any area they can, all in parallel. In additon, there are roughly 530 bosses in congress who are more than willing to direct the efforts of the 'crats, all in parallel.

I have to go out now and plant a tree (actually). It has almost become too late to do this but if I don't do it today it will not get done. I'll be back later.

Tomgee
"Arizona and Southern California are packed with people from the upper Midwest who are determined never to see another snowflake as long as they live."

That would be me. I got tired of living in the mountains of Wyoming, waiting for this so-called global warming they kept promising, so I moved to AZ in '92.

Can you imagine my distress at seeing 4" of snow fall in Tucson one day not long ago, to go along with the coldest winter here in years. I've got carcasses of dead cactus all over my yard from the dozens of well below freezing nights we've endured. Brrr-rr! I had to dig out all my old winter clothes, especially Jan 1 when I took my annual motorcycle ride, commemorating my pilgrimage to the Sun.

DROP INCONVENIENT FACTS>>>
Choose a few points to meaasue the Earth's temperature and keep on changing their location to get any output you want......vide Twain's "statistics".

Lynne

Yes, MSM bias has something to do with your point. I don't feel that the usual accusation of "left wing" bias is it, however. Whether civilization is destructive or not is nonideological and longstanding, for the most part. Pliny worried about the environmental effects of mining in ancient Rome. Thoughtful people from primitive tribes to John Muir have worried about deforestation. When it comes to burning carbon-based fuels and using your head, the various wings may blame the other wings, but ever since Prometheus, people have lit fires and tried to use their brains.

I feel that media bias, especially visual media, is slanted in favor of the sensational, the lurid, the images that can frighten people or raise their adrenaline levels in some other way. TV is based on the truism that "a picture is worth a thousand words." Even the credibility of people talking earnestly and intellectually on TV is based on that. How many spokespersons are allowed on the air with crooked teeth, a drooping eyelid or any but the requisite kind of cheekbones?

Another problem with visual media presentations of issues is that nearly everybody, even scientists, are prone to vanity. Normally calm, modest people can turn to jelly at the thought of getting onto TV. The musical comedy "Bye Bye Birdie" did a wonderful bit about that forty years ago when the typical American family sang the self-mesmerizing hymn, "Ed Sullivan."

Another movie that poked fun effectively at show biz trumping accuracy was the dark retrospective QUIZ SHOW, revisiting a rigged game show scandal of the early 1960's. At the very endof the movie, one of the producers who rigged the show scoffed at the regulations suggested by an investigating Congressman by saying, "We're not exactly hardened criminals here. It's entertainment. We're in show business."

Personally, I love show biz; I love the internet, but I still feel the best way to absorb detailed information accurately is through the printed page. Electronic media induce viewer passivity and they blow data at you faster than you can assimilate. Only books can be laid in your lap during a quiet time when you can absorb the material at your own pace, reread when necessary and think about what you're learning as an ongoing process.

Gore's Testimony was Real Progress!
It is the first time I can remember an AGW religionist of the Rev. Al's massive stature revealing the real "end point" of the AGW reduction process. It is now obvious to lots more of us that "7% below 1990 levels by 2012" is not the end point; actually, it's just the first step off onto the slippery slope.

Now we can begin the process of envisioning the US after a 90% reduction in CO2 emissions by 2050. So sit back, put your feet up, close your eyes and imagine. Maybe some of us can share our visions here, for the amusement of all.

And to think that Senator McCain said it would be "cheap and easy".

GroupThink
I took a seminar on team-building last week, and one of the topics we covered was "groupthink", one of the disadvantages to working in teams, one that could lead to very bad decisions. We watched a video that had taken several clips from a TV movie about the space shuttle Challenger disaster. It was amazing to see EACH AND EVERY ONE of the symptoms of groupthink come to light in the series of events that led to the fiery destruction of the space shuttle.

See how many of the following symptoms of groupthink you can find in the global warming alarmist agenda:

1. Illusion of invulnerability

2. We-they stereotypes (they're evil)

3. Rationalization (they did it)

4. Illusion of morality

5. Self-censorship

6. Illusion of unanimity

7. Direct pressure on deviants (don't rock the boat)

8. Mind guarding (shielding from outside opinions)

'Nuf said.

Regards,
Trevor

Countryman
>Marxism is taught on today's college campuses as the main philosophy<

Do you have any data to back up this ridiculous statement? You make yourself look like the same hysterical alarmist as Al Gore.

roadmaster

It's a great pleasure to see somebody comment with a note of humor and modesty. Although eight months where I live are delightful, I, too, can't stand winter and have been planning all my life to move to a warmer climate. Friends, family, wife just keep the pressure on to stick around, so I haven't been able to pull away. I happen to be in a very high risk group for skin cancer, so maybe they're doing me a favor.

Even though I don't like automobiles much, another reason I can't get too exercised about dumping on cars generally are those precious, Kerouacian vignettes from youth where driving a car seemed like being on top of the world. On my first visit to Los Angeles, I got driven around town by a college girl in an open, red convertible. It was a big car, too, a mid-60's Pontiac or something. For a nerdy kid suddenly bombing around Tinseltown with a dazzling blonde with her hair flying in the wind, was one of the handful of experiences that will probably pass before my eyes in my last few seconds on this planet. Sailboats and trains are my preferred conveyances and I've had many more wonderful vignettes in them, but I realize most people can't relate to that. I would hate to deprive any teenage boy of the chance to drive around in a convertible with a pretty girl, if only once.
Cramming every poor soul into phone booth sized smart cars, for ever and ever, seems bleak.

Lynne

Sorry if I strayed off-topic a bit. I'm in basic agreement with you that the MSM have succumbed to groupthink on the CO2 apocalypse. Perhaps it's become too tedious to accomodate "real" scientists, given the limitations and superficiality of TV in particular.

The cheap and easy solution
There is a solution to the GW problem but it's so logical, so cheap and so easy I guess algor didn't want to bring it up.

It's commonly known that airborne solid particles cool the Earth. This explains why Earth was cooling in the 60's and 70's. Then the polluting industries began assiduously, if recklessly, installing pollution control devices, undeniably cleansing the air of these airborne particles, unfortunately leading to air that is dangerously clean.

These pollution control devices can simply be turned OFF, allowing those cooling particles to again enter the air. Through careful monitoring, we can then regulate these harmful cooling and warming cycles by simply turning these pollution control devices on and off.

Don't thank me for this solution. I simply want to save the Earth.


utahnotmormon
I too am of the belief that the vast majority of college instructors have a collectivist mindset. How am I to overcome this?

TruLib
What's the basis for your conclusion? Have you done an in-depth study, or can you link to one?

Other than a few history and philosophy courses, I seriously doubt Marx ever comes up in college courses. Do you think college calculus professors or chemistry professors are mixing Marxism in with their lessons designed to educate the next generation of capitalists and entrepenuers?

If so, I suggest you overcome this with some common sense.

Global Warming
We have to stop looking at the pimple on our nose and start looking at the big picture. Last week, I gave my opinion that the earth's spin axis has changed from the mulitiude of earthquakes that we experienced in the past century. The earthquakes tell us that the tectonic plates are shifting and changing the balance and spin axis of our globe. A change of the spin axis, moving the north pole even a couple of degrees, towards the sun could increase temperatures, especially in the northern hemisphere, the one or two degrees that supposedly have occured in the past century. My opinion has some validity because as the continents separated from Pangaea, the millions of years ago super continent, some strange things happened.

Oil comes from lots of decaying vegetation, not lichens. The gigantic oil fields in Alaska tell us that the north pole was once tropical!! Talk about global warming! Again, the nautical charts that I use in navigating my boat tell me that the magnetic north is shifting (in the Great Lakes) a couple of degrees west every year. How do the pseudo-scientifical snobs explain these items:

Earthquake activity has increased significantly in the past fifty years. Alaska has lots of oil indicating a once tropical climate. The magnetic north pole is shifting west every year.

Finally, in Michigan we lost several hundred thousand elm and ash trees to disease over the past twenty years. The basic structure of wood is composed of lignin and cellulose molecules. Both molecules are composed of lots of carbon. Trees use carbon dioxide to get this carbon and release oxygen back into the atmosphere. Why don't we get everyone to plant lots of replacement trees and start increasing awareness of the clear cutting in the Amazon, Indonesia and other parts of the world. I am trying to do my share. How about you?


Preacher Al


.....Of the Church of "What's Happening Now" and "I Feel Good" ...

.....Algore says that the science is settled ...in my opinion the only thing that is settled is that Gore is a charlatan and an idiot .....COLOSSUS

More precisely
“This is just another example of the solipsism of the baby boom generation, the pampered and much-praised age cohort that believes the world revolves around them and that all past history has become irrelevant.”

More precisely, it is just another manifestation of their defiance of authority.

Tomgee: LOL
I live in the LA burbs, and you have truly experienced one of life's real pleasures, and one of the things that keeps 'em coming back to LA.

The Blonde in the Convertible. Sounds like the title to a song or movie.

Algore and Green Communism

.....If you google Green Communism you will get 382,400 hits ...if you google Al Gore and Green Communism you will get 21,500 hits ...the Environmentalist movement has become the new home of Communist ideology ...a primer on how to seize control and achieve power ...

1. Create a problem (in the mind of the public)
2. Wait for the reaction (fear and panic)
3. Propose a solution that will give you your objective (control and power) ...

.....Start with the problem: ...

1. Acid rain is killing our forests ...
2. Hydrocarbons (freon) are causing a hole in the Ozone layer ...
3. DDT is killing our wildlife ...
4. CO2 is burning up our planet ...

.....Next ...

1. Show pictures of fuzzy polar bears ...
2. Show melting glaciers (where do icebergs come from?) ...
3. Show flooded coastal plains in animated propaganda cartoons ...
4. Do all of the above until the plebes are whipped into a frenzy and demand that government action be taken ...

.....Conclusion ...

1. Administer the coup-de-grace ...
2. Identify fossil fuels as the culprit ...
3. Levy huge penalties (taxes) on the Energy Companies ...

....This is the latest tactic of the New Communist Collectivists ...

1. Change Ethical Standards ...
2. Wealth is no longer good ...it is bad ...
3. Technology is not good ...it is bad ...
4. Man is not good ...humans are destroying the Earth ...
5. Orwell's "Reality Control" ...A new religion is born .....

.....COLOSSUS

BrianR

I recently made a brief visit to Southern California for the first time in 30+ years, partly because three weeks of sub-freezing weather at home was getting to me. Despite L.A.'s congestion & chaos, compared to what I'm used to, there's an exuberance to the place that I didn't fully appreciate in my youth.

In regard to your above comment, write a melody for the following ditty, The Blonde in the Convertible:

"When the world makes us weary,
And do-gooders wax dreary,

I'll remember friend Andy
Sent me south to see Sandy

And she drove through the city
With her hair flying pretty.

Other kids at the stoplights
Flicked on their headlights,

To signal: 'We're joyful;
All's right with the world.'"

JayHub, Do as the Goracle Does.....
Just do as Al Gore does.

When asked to take the following pledge by Senator Inhofe

As a believer:

· that human-caused global warming is a moral, ethical, and spiritual issue affecting our survival;

· that home energy use is a key component of overall energy use;

· that reducing my fossil fuel-based home energy usage will lead to lower greenhouse gas emissions; and

· that leaders on moral issues should lead by example;

I pledge to consume no more energy for use in my residence than the average American household by March 21, 2008.”

Gore refused to take the pledge.


citywolfe
I like your theory but it does not explain the documented global cooling in the years I was in school, esp. the 60's.

And it might seem that Man could not correct the problem if your theory is correct. That is unacceptable.

Rebuttal
Barone writes "But he is more like an Old Testament prophet...".

Actually, Gore is more like a mutawa ("vice and virtue religious police" in many Muslim countries, including Saudi Arabia), basically an oaf trying to enforce HIS idea of virtue (which he doesn't even practice)!

What if temps DO start to decline?
Will Algore then try to take credit for this?

You guys need to be thinking ahead a little too!

The Selling of (Enviro) Indulgences
Great phrase, Tadd Peake. I don't know if you coined it, but you hit the nail on the head with it.

GOP in lock step is more like Communism
baseballdoc writes: Algore and Green Communism

"Environmentalist movement has become the new home of Communist ideology ...a primer on how to seize control and achieve power ... "


Ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha, we are just talking about the environment. Paranoia must be a terrible metal illness.

THE DEBATE OF WHAT TO DO IS WIDE OPEN. Why not join the debate and solution that has min impact on life style, energy cost, society and capitalism. NO ONE WANTS TO BE A Communist. Yes even Dems are proud patriotic Americans, even Gore!

The GOP just throws up their hands and say, Waaaaa, ITS TOO HARD, SO DO NOTHING, waaaaaa, GORE IS A Communist, waaaaaa, THINKING OF SOLUTIONS IS TOO HARD, SO ATTACK THE MESSENGER, waaaaa, BIG OIL GIVES ME LOTS OF MONEY.

The Right wing Neo-Cons had great success with Fear Mongering post 9/11. One of the top 10 tactics in the Rove/GOP play book, throw in fear and words like, Nazi, Communist, Terrorist or one of 20 slogans & sound bits the GOP came up with, instead of ideas and debate of facts. I guess name calling is easier than actually thinking, talking facts and solutions.

I don't think the solution to call Dems and Gore names and do nothing.

There are great ideas out there, but with this childish approach the GOP leadership has of name calling and lock-stepping*, no new ideas will ever come. The GOP is the party of fear.

(*lock stepping - I find it very disconcerting the GOP has so little internal debate and members are ALL (100%) are in agreement, that is more like COMMUNISM. There is something wrong there? )

Gore has brought Global warming to our attention. THANK YOU. Now lets decide what to do with the info, instead of wasting time with personal attacks. Gores ideas are just suggestions.

youmakemelaugh
That was fun; do it again. I never get enough of the Leftie freakshow; it's better than bearded ladies and two-headed cows!

*claps hands in excitement*

AGW
What does AGW really stand for:

AlGore, Whiner

AlGore Warning

AlGore Wasting

AlGore: Wussie

AlGore Wannabe

AlGore, Whatever…

AlGore, Wacko

jetpilot
What's laughable is that your screed entirely ignores that we have an object lesson on "doing" something in the form of the Kyoto Treaty, which to date (after only two years) has cost about a third of a trillion dollars, and whose ultimate impact, if fully implemented, would lower global temps by mere HUNDREDTHS of a degree Centigrade by the year 2050.

Feel free to rebut intelligently (note the caveat).

Thanks
Thanks to Lynne, Vic, vidyohs & heresyarch for the comments. I will check into the Heibelberg Appeal and other ways of self education.

I have not seen Gore's movie, since I tend to avoid things that look like obvious manipulative propaganda, and, unfortunately, I can't "pledge to consume no more energy for use in our residence than the average American household by March 21, 2008," since both my wife and I have home offices and lots of computers, equipment, etc. I do drive a small pickup, however, that gets 20 MPG, does that count?

Best wishes to all.

Jayhub
Forget the ideologies and simply look logically at the science. I provided this link once before regarding the inconvenient truths of Al Gore. The question is who is really inconvenienced by the truth of actual science.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02262007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/not_that_simple_opedcolumnists_roy_w__spencer.htm?page=0

There are so many variables that impact the temperature of the earth that can neither be predicted nor can they be accurately measured or accurately placed in a computer model. Consider the activity of the sun, our proximity to the sun, volcanic activity, weather, etc. Please, read this article and regardless of whether you are republican or democrat ask yourself whether man really has a material impact on the temperature. Also ask yourself why a reasoned person would expect a warming trend to continue on a linear basis through the next several centuries when our own lifetimes has seen a curvilinear history of the earth both warming and cooling over ten or twenty year periods.

All things taken into consideration the hardest thing that I find to comprehend is how so many people can believe the rantings of our former vice president.

John Konop...
A little tidbit for you to chew on....

"Scientific consensus," by definition, is an oxymoron.

news item:
Democrats today announced they are working on legislation to stop global warming. It will be called the "Al Gore Air-Conditioner Registration Act of 2007". When asked how this would stop global warming, a democratic spokesman said, "Well, it should be obvious. It'll stop global warming the same way gun registration stops crime."

youmakemelaugh2...
Please elaborate;

Dr. Hansen, who's whining about censorship, could he possibly be the same Dr. Hansen that has made more than 1,400 public speaking appearances in the last 5 years or so? And has done it with absolutely no retribution of any kind?

youmakemelaugh2...
As an aside;

Traveling to all these public speaking engagements, how does Dr. Hansen even find time to do his job at NASA?

I guess it's really true, it takes 3 acts of Congress and an act of God to fire a civil service employee....

youmakemelaugh2
Are republicans afraid to debate global warming with Al Gore? I don't think so. It was Gore who did not provide a written copy of his testimony to the committee the traditional 48 hours in advance. It was Gore that didn't show up at the beginning of the hearing and thus avoided statements from republicans that preceded his testimony. It was Gore that evaded questions and provided irrelevant answers regarding global warming and his own example of carbon neutral living.

In one sense maybe republicans are unwilling to argue with the former candidate. There is that old adage that says, "Don't argue with an idiot lest people will begin to think you are one too."

Ron
^^^Also ask yourself why a reasoned person would expect a warming trend to continue on a linear basis through the next several centuries when our own lifetimes has seen a curvilinear history of the earth both warming and cooling over ten or twenty year periods.^^^


Why not ask an even more fundamental question. Why would a reasoned person expect a trend that has been 1 degree warming per century to change suddenly and catastrophically (right now) to 10 degrees per century, as Algore claims?

False claims and falser prophets.
Or in Gore's case it should be false profits, considering the nature of his carbon credit scam.

When AGW was first proposed as a serious threat to the planet its proponents were not decrying the burning of fossil fuels. They were decrying the clearing of thousands of acres of the Amazon rain forest to make room for suburbs of Sao Paulo, Brazil. They claimed that the loss of these trees would reduce the amount of CO2 that was converted back into oxygen and that the excessive CO2 remaining inthe atmosphere would warm the planet.

They also claimed that the polar ice caps would melt and flood our shorelines and other low-lying areas. They were ignorant of the law of "displacement", which is nicely explained by vidyohs in his post.

Mind you, this warning was issued by the same self-appointed "experts" who now claim the "debate is over" and that all the world's scientists agree the man is causing the atmosphere to warm.

Subsequently the AGW argument evolved into another excuse for the anti-automobile enviros to target cars. In the late sixties and early seventies environmentalists succeeded in getting automakers to redesign cars so they were 95% pollution-free. It actually upset them greatly, because the real objective was to effectively outlaw the car. It didn't work. Detroit's engineers outsmarted them (like it would be hard for an engineer to outsmart a bunch of Poly-Sci dropouts).

So in the late seventies, with total control of Congress and the White House they upped the standard to 99% pollution-free. This was done at the same time they enacted the legislation that made it impractical to build any new refineries or bring new nuclear power plants on line. But Detroit's engineers outsmarted them again and met the standard.

Now here's the kicker. In order to comply with these tougher Clean-Air standards, auto engineers had to REDUCE gas mileage. That means we burn MORE fuel per mile driven than before the Clean-Air laws were imposed.

This came home to roost. Today the same lefties who drove fuel economy down and CO2 emissions up are complaining about the CO2.

Enivironmentalists finally have Detroit's engineers by the short hairs. No matter how smart the engineers are the enviros know they can't emit zero CO2.

Anyone who thinks AGW is not an attack on the automobile is either unaware of this history or chooses to ignore/avoid it.

Some other info of note:

1. Despite the fact that Al Gore helped draft Kyoto, the US was one of only SEVEN countries that voted against it. Other dissenters included Iran, Iraq, South Korea, and Israel.

2. Al Gore took only two "natural science" classes as an undergrad at Yale. He got average grades in both.

3. Al Gore had a perfect voting record in the Senate against abortion and against gun control until he decided to run for Prez in 1988. At that time he reversed his position on both issues. These reversals are largely responsible for Gore losing his home state of Tennessee in the 2000 Presidential election. If Gore had held his own home state he would have been President.

4. Gore (and wife Tipper) were crusaders against the graphic depiction of sex, violence, and foul language in movies and on TV. Until they needed funds for Al's Presidential bid. After receiving lavish support from wealthy Hollywood liberals their attacks and these vulgarities stopped completely.

What we have is man with no technical credentials who flunked out of Divinty School twice, who has sold out every significant deeply held belief he ever professed publicly (except extreme environmentalism), presuming to lecture the rest of us that we must lower our own standard of living because AGW is a "moral" issue, while refusing to "walk the walk" himself.

Al Gore has become Al Wh*re.

BTW - for lonestarblues, you can be sure Ann Coulter is aware of her reference to Gore's belief in AGW as religious. In her book "Godless" she discusses liberalism as a religion unto itself, and all its tenets must therefore be religious in nature.

False claims and falser prophets.
Or in Gore's case it should be false profits, considering the nature of his carbon credit scam.

When AGW was first proposed as a serious threat to the planet its proponents were not decrying the burning of fossil fuels. They were decrying the clearing of thousands of acres of the Amazon rain forest to make room for suburbs of Sao Paulo, Brazil. They claimed that the loss of these trees would reduce the amount of CO2 that was converted back into oxygen and that the excessive CO2 remaining inthe atmosphere would warm the planet.

They also claimed that the polar ice caps would melt and flood our shorelines and other low-lying areas. They were ignorant of the law of "displacement", which is nicely explained by vidyohs in his post.

Mind you, this warning was issued by the same self-appointed "experts" who now claim the "debate is over" and that all the world's scientists agree the man is causing the atmosphere to warm.

Subsequently the AGW argument evolved into another excuse for the anti-automobile enviros to target cars. In the late sixties and early seventies environmentalists succeeded in getting automakers to redesign cars so they were 95% pollution-free. It actually upset them greatly, because the real objective was to effectively outlaw the car. It didn't work. Detroit's engineers outsmarted them (like it would be hard for an engineer to outsmart a bunch of Poly-Sci dropouts).

So in the late seventies, with total control of Congress and the White House they upped the standard to 99% pollution-free. This was done at the same time they enacted the legislation that made it impractical to build any new refineries or bring new nuclear power plants on line. But Detroit's engineers outsmarted them again and met the standard.

Now here's the kicker. In order to comply with these tougher Clean-Air standards, auto engineers had to REDUCE gas mileage. That means we burn MORE fuel per mile driven than before the Clean-Air laws were imposed.

This came home to roost. Today the same lefties who drove fuel economy down and CO2 emissions up are complaining about the CO2.

Enivironmentalists finally have Detroit's engineers by the short hairs. No matter how smart the engineers are the enviros know they can't emit zero CO2.

Anyone who thinks AGW is not an attack on the automobile is either unaware of this history or chooses to ignore/avoid it.

Some other info of note:

1. Despite the fact that Al Gore helped draft Kyoto, the US was one of only SEVEN countries that voted against it. Other dissenters included Iran, Iraq, South Korea, and Israel.

2. Al Gore took only two "natural science" classes as an undergrad at Yale. He got average grades in both.

3. Al Gore had a perfect voting record in the Senate against abortion and against gun control until he decided to run for Prez in 1988. At that time he reversed his position on both issues. These reversals are largely responsible for Gore losing his home state of Tennessee in the 2000 Presidential election. If Gore had held his own home state he would have been President.

4. Gore (and wife Tipper) were crusaders against the graphic depiction of sex, violence, and foul language in movies and on TV. Until they needed funds for Al's Presidential bid. After receiving lavish support from wealthy Hollywood liberals their attacks and these vulgarities stopped completely.

What we have is man with no technical credentials who flunked out of Divinty School twice, who has sold out every significant deeply held belief he ever professed publicly (except extreme environmentalism), presuming to lecture the rest of us that we must lower our own standard of living because AGW is a "moral" issue, while refusing to "walk the walk" himself.

Gore merely continues to prostitute himself with his AGW rant.

BTW - for lonestarblues, you can be sure Ann Coulter is aware of her reference to Gore's belief in AGW as religious. In her book "Godless" she discusses liberalism as a religion unto itself, and all its tenets must therefore be religious in nature.

For youmakemelaugh2
It is the left that is afraid of debate. That's why they keep insisting that "The debate is over" when it isn't.

Vic writes:
"The companies that have come in favor of AGW all stand to make a profit in one way or another, most like Albore, in the area of selling carbon offsets."

I hope this is the case, and indeed, history has shown that in the face of vile statist attacks, companies have managed to mitigate the effects of unconstitutional, anti-free market statist policies. HOWEVER, they have also stubborny refused to challenge the statists on the principles. Everytime an unbathed hippie who contributes nothing to society unfairly attacks a businessman, the businessman summarily surrenders his principles. The primary reason that some companies are in fovor of AGW is not because they stand to make a profit (they stand to lose everything if the anti-capitalists leading the Global Warming crusade succeed) but because they're moral COWARDS. They're simply afraid to tell the welfare statists to go to hell. Sure, because they're innovative and talented, the businessmen will make the best out of a horrible situation, but is is a shame that they refuse to challenge the moral highground asserted by unbathed, illiterate, uneducated hippies. It is a damn shame.

Primer Somewhere?
As someone who's pretty much avoided this controversy to date, I wondered if someone could point me to a primer on the issues somewhere, or write one as a response.

I'm assuming from what I remember of Science that:

1. There are certain observed phenomena occuring that we are trying to explain;

2. That there are theories being advanced to explain these phenomena; and

3. These theories have predictive value that allows them to be evaluated as better or worse explanations of what we're seeing and better or worse guides for further research.

From what I've picked up disagreements start at Level 1 (is there global warming), occur significantly at Level 2 (why is there global warming, if there is), and continue at Level 3 (even if there is global warming, will it be a big problem).

Like I said, I would be very pleased to be pointed to a source that sort of set out "The Global Warming Dispute for Dummies."

Best wishes.

wiseone and vidyohs
^^^They were ignorant of the law of "displacement", which is nicely explained by vidyohs in his post.^^^



Actually, the law of "displacement" only holds for ice existing on top of water (e.g. Arctic Ocean). If the ice that exists on land areas melts (most of Earth's land based ice is in Antarctica and Greenland), ocean levels would rise (as they have risen some 400' since the last Ice Age).

Gore's Perfidity
Perhaps there are a few out there who would be willing to strip the last vestige of decency off of the Great Pretender, ALGORE. Look into the actions of Gore's father as a poor boy from the hills of Tennessee came to Washington and amassed a fortune serving Occidental Petroleum. That's right, Gore's fortune came from Big Oil.

Ron, thanks
Useful link to NY Post article, thanks. Seems very sane. I posted my primer request before I read your post and would still love to see it all dispassionately set out somewhere.

youmakemegettheruns
Keep believing the C student from Harvard and WE'LL keep believing the REAL Scientists who say The Goreacle is FULL OF LIBSQUEEZE!

I laugh at nimrods like you touting a guy who failed Divinity School not once but TWICE!

H.T.F. do you FAIL Divinity School? Get an F in Prayer 101?

Mook.

BTW, swing by my blog and check some of the global warming posts on pages 2-4. Post some drivel so I can spank you like the snot-nosed punk you are.

The Gore conspiracy
Maybe Chicken Little Gore is not so dumb. By predicting 20-foot sea rises and half of Florida under water, etc. he'll be able to claim a great "victory" in the "war" on climate change when the seas indeed only rise 18 inches and Florida is still high and dry, etc.

Always over-estimate the disaster, no matter what it is (crime, the murder rate, number of AIDS victims) so that when the actual numbers come in and they're way below your estimates, you can claim success in fighting the disaster. The challenge is to get people onto the bandwagon: here Gore knows people love apocalyptic scenarios (the Godzilla syndrome) and only the weak and hopelessly inept (add evil if you want) will decline to fight Godzilla when he's right there on your doorstep. In this Age of Compassion science fiction will always trump science fact. Facts are to be used only if they further your cause; once they begin to hinder your cause, abandon them.

Gore's in a win-win situation: whatever happens with the climate he can either say "I told you so" or "We fought it and won." Of course the worst thing to happen for Gore's cause would be for a moratorium to be placed on any government actions regarding carbon capping, etc. until more conclusive evidence comes in. Patience would not be a virtue in the Gore assault: it would take the spotlight away, first of all, and we are in a Presidential campaign, don't forget. But I'll leave that thought to the conspiracy theorists out there.

Lynne
Here are a few links that I've come across in my researching GW. Thanks to The Goreacle for inventing the Internet.

http://www.brighton73.freeserve.co.uk/gw/paleo/paleoclimate.htm

http://www.stanford.edu/~moore/Boon_To_Man.html

http://www.penraker.com/archives/007100.html (Trashes The Goreacle beyond a shadow of a doubt.)

Lynne
Yeah TruLib was probably woke up early by an evil capitalistic running dog GOP'er heading to work at Halliburton working on a new bomb to kill innocent freedom-loving al-Qaeda members of the world!

So he burned a few joints early and BINGO! here he is at 0832! haha.

Lynne
Dang, forget to tell you to swing by my blog and check out the bumper sticker for Fred in 2008!

Liberals quiver in FEAR at the mere mention of the name....FRED DALTON THOMPSON!


GunnyG
Good links, though they'll take a little while to plow through. Thanks

Lynne
Re: Liberals sleeping habits.

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
Sun-Tzu (~400 BC)

I KNOW the habits of my sworn enemy, Liberalus Americanus Scumbagus and I know myself, Semper Fidelis Asskickerus de Liberalus.

Victory will be ours! haha.

JayHub
One thing I noted was that the UN and the Liberals OMITTED the medieval warming period from their 2000 report since it totally sunk their GW ship unless Charlemange and Martel were driving around and jousting in SUV's??

GunnyG
Normally I am at work by 7 but I am working on my house this week. Don't you people have jobs? Thankfully I stopped the joint stuff about twenty five years ago. Usually I don't log on to TH till late in the day and just read.

I enjoy your stuff.

ad hominems Galore
Let's get this out of the way.

Al Gore is fat.

Al Gore may be a hypocrite on power usage.

He is not an earth science graduate.

How does any of this affect his argument?

Does being a scientist who once proclaimed there was no evidence linking smoking to lung cancer give one of the major nay sayers of GW more credibility?

Does being a PR hack for the oil industry, going to government and rewriting a scientific paper on GW, and then going back to the oil industry give more credibility to his job prospects or scientific acumen?

Does condemning the UN for even existing give more or less credibility to a UN agency (IPCC) used in an attempt to bolster anti global warming rhetoric?



BHL
Does relying on strawman arguments give you any credibility?

(Hint: the one-word answer begins with "N".)

Mr. Barone has nailed this one!
Environmentalists now have their prophet and savior(AlGore)! They preach the religion of the earth. "Save youselves from this wicked generation", of SUV drivers, etc. God looks down from above and laughs.

BHL
"How does any of this affect his argument?"

It affects his authority to declare that "the debate is over", or to demand that others give up their own quality of life in service to the supposed Greater Good of subduing the AGW dragon.

Please try and remember that what is at issue is whether or not to allow or enable governmental authority, at the point of a gun, to enforce intervention in the fossil-fuel-based free market, in ways that will lower the standard of living for billions. This is a serious issue, and consequently the moral authorty of the loudest voice in favor of that governmental intervention *does* matter.

TruLib
Hey! You're on the wrong side. Leave the dark side and come over to the light. It's never too late. Unlike the Leftist anarchist rabble (who defecated on the US flag in Portland last week), we forgive, we just don't forget.

Hi Lynne....
Perhaps we did meet. I was standing watch, over the Lincoln Memorial, from about 10:00 to 14:30. Tough assignment since I stood next to the antiwar retards and their insultingly environmentally unfriendly ways. But we kept the memorials and monuments from being defaced by the "I hate America crowd.".....

Gunny...
I was wondering about Al Snore's efforts in Divinity School (I know, a contradiction in terms...chuckling). I'm curious; how does one go about failing God?

youmakemelaugh2,
There's nobody else to respond too! I hope this doesn't feel like piling on.

You made the point that Al Gore is only talking about "worst case scenarios." I'll have to rewind the tape. He sure seemed emphatic about what's *going to* happen. Did he also talk about best case scenarios? How about the expected case? Maybe I was sleeping throught that part.

Rational people don't hit the panic button about a worst case scenario unless they are trying to provoke an emotional response.

It's OKAY to be concerned about a worst case scenario. But rational people would seek additional information in order to make a better prediction on what will really happen. Rational people don't declare the end of the information gathering stage and immediately plunge into developing solutions -- unless they have another agenda.

---
Parting thoughts:

When a problem has no solution, it is not a problem. Rather, it's just something you must learn to live with.


Gunny...
Was that the same group that burned a US soldier in effigy?

GunnyG & Lynne
Please show a little more respect for Liberal grief.
Liberals are in a state of shock at learning their AGW God is DEAD!

Ad Hominems Restrictus
That's my motto, but accepting as Gospel anything Algore says is quite a stretch because of his history of exaggeration and aversion to facts.

GW may or not be happening but I tend to look towards people with a tiny bit more cred than someone who, in my opinion, has appeared to be, let us say, off balance.

And anyone who declares that the debate is over, has withdrawn from the debate, which is exactly what Gore is doing. Imhoff would have eaten him alive had not B. Boxer run interference. Think about it? If you have to have HER blocking for you, you must be a lightweight.

That's the diff between libs and cons; they protect their crazies whereas we throw ours' under the bus.

roadmaster
Speaking of con. crazies whats with Hagel and the impeachment thing?

Gee Lynne, I did
Did we read the same things?
First link supports Co2 and temperature increase. Follow the links to source documents.
Second link is a policy paper by the Hoover institute put out after the kyoto meetings as a rebuttal and points to economic problems.
Third link supports middle ages warming. Which supports the idea of naturally occurring heat cold cycles.

And all of this shows how the measured CO2 increases over the past 30 will not effect weather how?

BHL...
So atmospheric CO2 content is linked to temperature increases? And since there is no CO2 in the residual atmosphere on Mars, you explain the increase in temperature on the red planet how?

Lynne...
Sorry you couldn't make it. We clearly demonstrated a very significant difference in the quality of people who were on the mall that day. It was much more than the numbers, the park police and metro police were very impressed with our conduct, the antiwar, anti-American crowd...well look at the pictures that showed all the effort that was necessary for someone else to pick up after them as a good indicator of just what low-lifes they really are.

No comparison!
Gore is not to be compared to an "Old Testament prophet"but rather to one of the false prophets about which Jesus warned us. Gore's message is not only scientifically but also morally flawed. His personal life style is a disconnect with the sacrifices his questionable science would impose on the poorest of us.

Tru lib
Personally, I haven't considered Hagel one of "us" for quite some time. I wish I could throw him under the bus, rhetorically, of course. He's even more destructive to the cause than other egomaniac RINO's like McCain or Specter, because his blather is seditious and treasonous.

I'm always leary of whoever the drive-by media trots out on a regular basis, since they only serve to support the underlying bias and predetermined conclusions.


BHL
It appears all that are pushing GW as fixable problem consider CO2 as the driving force. As temperature, methane and CO2 track together is it possible temperature is driving the other two? In the absence of human activity in the past why did all three fluctuate in a fairly regular cycle. Is all of this understood to the point that the huge changes Gore is advocating make sense? Please consider the things that government does well. The list is very short.

Tru lib
Personally, I haven't considered Hagel one of "us" for quite some time. I wish I could throw him under the bus, rhetorically, of course. He's even more destructive to the cause than other egomaniac RINO's like McCain or Specter, because his blather is seditious and treasonous.

I'm always leary of whoever the drive-by media trots out on a regular basis, since they only serve to support the underlying bias and predetermined conclusions.


oops, sorry for the double clutch
Donchahatewinthathappens?

roadmaster
McCain, Specter, Hagel. Moe,Larry,Curly.

roadmaster, TruLib
Voinovich,Lindsey Graham (depending on the day of the week), Collins, Snowe, Martinez, and don't get me started on those RINOs in the house.....

Lynne..
I wonder if something could be done in conjunction with the Vietnam Veterans annual gathering, at The Wall, over Memorial Day Weekend, or if that is just too important an event to do anything else along with it.

Lynne...
I think you're right. It may be Rolling Thunder

Lynne..
I just realized that I'll be out of town that weekend. Instruction for my pending wedding in September. I'm Catholic, don'cha know....

If Gore's predictions don't come true...
Under Old Testament law, a true prophet was always right. If he made just one prediction that didn't come true, he was to be regarded as a false prophet.

If Gore's predictions on global warming don't come true, can we stone him?

tunneler
All I know is that some squirming lib maggot out in Portland whipped down his trou IN FRONT of women and kids and took a dump on the flag! I'd HAD to go to jail since I would have stomped his guts out. Enough is enough.


We are all going to DIE, I tell you!!!
If present trends continue, life as you and I know it will cease. That’s right. Before everyone starts calling me a hysterical alarmist, let’s look at the inarguable facts. With each passing year, the number of years remaining to each of us is shortened by exactly one year. On the basis of simple math, it should become obvious to even the most cynical denier that eventually that number will be reduced to zero, meaning the cessation of all further existence beyond that fateful appointed hour. On a case-by-case basis, it is impossible to know what that number is at present, but that only heightens the critical need to take action now to forestall its coming.

With the prospects of personal extinction looking each and every one of us in the eye, you would think this impending calamity would have already galvanized the nations and scientists of the world in a concerted effort to erase the handwriting of doom that is already being written on the wall of our collective existence. But no! The silence coming from our supposed leaders and benefactors on the travails that await each and every one of us in the absence of decisive action is deafening. This must not stand!

Wake up fools and demand action now to stop this impending doom while there is still time!

The Feds Know Best
Since the left seems to think "unbiased" science only comes from publically funded science, then how do they respond to the statement of the American Associataion of State Climatologists? these guys are the epitome of publically funded scientists without any private sector entanglements to "taint" their views. You can't say they are slaves to right wing propaganda or the oil companies. They draw their checks on public funds, and they would definitely benefit from scare mongring, as it would increase their funding and influence. Yet they are not buying into AGW fairy tales.

How does the left explain this heretical departure from those who should be AGW faithful?

MyOpine
I know, I should but I dig rubbing their faces in it.

SandMan
LOL!

You're gonna start a stampede of libcattle to DailyKoS, HuffPost, moveon.org, etc to check to make sure that your post REALLY ISN'T TRUE! haha.

In fact, I think I just saw one of our resident libdolts walking by my office wearing a

"THE END IS NEAR" sign.

Sandman...
WOW!

After reading your rant, I have to ask...

Are your sneaking in this little bit of lunacy while your middle school teacher is in the teacher's lounge sneaking a snort.....

More proof that liberalism is further proof of irreversibly progressive depletion of the global gene pool, and that liberals should never be allowed out in society without adult supervision!

Gunny...
Here's the link to the photos of the soldier burned in effigy that was cited in the Portland article.

I think that Oregon needs to given back to the Russians or something similar.

http://linfield.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2012088&l=c6305&id=65201211

We are all going to die (Part 2)
I decided several years ago that the number one factor contributing to the never-ending escalation of leftist doomsaying was the whole mortality issue. It is not incoincidental that the hysteria did not reach its crescendo until the narcissistic baby boomers came of age.

Let’s track the timeline. First we learned that the purpose for our existence on this earth was to gratify our carnal desires. Thent, we learned from them that everyone over the age of 30 was full of sh*t. Then we learned that God didn’t actually exist and that social mores and customs were just tools of oppression. Then, when they turned 30 themselves, they decided that it wasn’t really an age issue after all. In reality, it was that everyone other than themselves was full of sh*t. Then we learned that “aging” is really nothing more than a choice that we can take or leave. We next learned that changes in states of nature didn’t have to occur after all, and that in actuality we are masters of our own collective cosmological destiny.

Yes, the common thread that runs through all the socio-political-cultural upheaval over the last 40 years is simply this. The eternally self-satisfying boomers want to make time stand still. In this Neverland of the mind, if not body, they are all still practicing free love with none of the negative consequences. Nobody is telling them what to do. They have the power to effect change, and they have become bored with merely upending 2,000 years of western civilization. Now, they are attempting to bend even the inexorable laws of nature and the ravages of time to their will.


SandMan
Our Company is in direct competition with Al Gore and we will beat any price he offers.
Our Nigerian hardwood trees are far superior for storing carbon than Al Gores fir trees and if you order four with your first order you receive absolutely free, an autographed copy of Vic's Carbon Footprint Calculator.
Prices change rapidly due to the Price war with Al Gore.

HELP SAVE OUR PLANET EARTH
Call 1 (814) 535-2642 for latest prices.

I agree with Sandman
Sandman is right. Science has established beyond reasonable doubt that human mortality is the number one cause of death. That fact should be obvious to anyone with common sense, but common sense is not exactly plentiful among liberals.

We are all going to die (Part 3)
Ok people. Let me spell it out real slow for you. Yes, the calamity I was referring to in my original post was our own mortality, therefore making my post a SPOOF. Honestly.

Lynne...
Thanks!

And yes, Pre-Canna.

Lynne
Anyone who thinks that there is not evidence for global warming, has never looked for it.

Recent and future climate change in northwest china Shi, Yafeng et al. Source: Climatic Change. Vol. 80 (3-4). FEB 2007. 379-393


Observations on future sea level changes in the Venice lagoon Zanchettin, Davide. et al. Source: Hydrobiologia. Vol. 577. FEB 2007. 41-53


Global temperature change Hansen, James et al. Source: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. Vol. 103 (39). SEP 26 2006. 14288-14293

Variations in solar luminosity and their effect on the Earth's climate Foukal, P. et al. Source: Nature (London). Vol. 443 (7108). SEP 14 2006. 161-166

Recent global warming: A new approach to interpreting some of the data Schleifer, Stanley , et al.Source: Northeastern Geology and Environmental Sciences. Vol. 28 (3). SEP 2006. 210-214


Emissions, concentrations, & temperature: A time series analysis Kaufmann, Robert K. et al. Source: Climatic Change. Vol. 77 (3-4). AUG 2006. 249-278

The cost of using global warming potentials: Analysing the trade off between CO2, CH4 and N2O Johansson, Daniel J. A. et al. Source: Climatic Change. Vol. 77 (3-4). AUG 2006. 291-309

How much more global warming and sea level rise? By: Meehl, Geraid A.; Washington, Warren M.; Collins, William D.; Arblaster, Julie M.; Hu, Aixue; Buja, Lawrence E.; Strand, Warren G.; Teng, Haiyan Source: Science (Washington D C), Vol. 307 (5716). March 18, 2005. 1769-1772.

Detection of a human influence on North American climate. By: Karoly, David J.; Braganza, Karl; Stott, Peter A.; Arblaster, Julie M.; Meehl, Gerald A.; Broccoli, Anthony J.; Dixon, Keith W. Source: Science (Washington D C), Vol. 302 (5648). 14 November, 2003. 1200-1203.

SandMan
Don't worry, I got the joke... it wasn't wasted effort, I chuckled...

DA
You miss the point. Anyone who thinks that there isn't evidence to CONTRADICT Global Warming is also fooling themselves.

That's what "the science is not settled" MEANS.

MyOpine: I think we can do bidness
I am intrigued by your pitch and would like to learn more. Like many others, I too would like to purchase ecological absolution, but find the limosine liberal, Hollywood-priced models to be beyond my working-class budget. Do you have something with a more modest sticker price? I don't need anything fancy, maybe something that would place me just outside the capitalistic fires of hell.

SandMan
I doubt we can work within your budget for Carbon Credit Absolution But I am also selling shares in a very nice suspension bridge that spans the entrance to San Francisco Bay.

Your disbelief in my imortality potion troubles me. It is formulated with genuine snake oil using directions from an old Indian Wolf Shaman.

Lynne
That number is Abscam Jack Murtha's office.

On a serious note;
I think we should try to steal DA.
He is not like the other Libs.
He is a little mixed up but he does have moral limits.

To TomGee/BrianR
I have driven through L.A. twice, but had no convertable or blonde at the time. My favorite song for L.A. driving is from Randy Newman:

Hate New York City
It's cold and it's damp
And all the people dressed like monkeys
Let's leave Chicago to the Eskimos
That town's a little bit too rugged
For you and me you bad girl

Rollin' down the Imperial Highway
With a big nasty redhead at my side
Santa Ana winds blowin' hot from the north
And we as born to ride

Roll down the window put down the top
Crank up the Beach Boys baby
Don't let the music stop
We're gonna ride it till we just can't ride it no more

From the South Bay to the Valley
>From the West Side to the East Side
Everybody's very happy
'Cause the sun is shining all the time
Looks like another perfect day

I love L.A. (We love it)
I love L.A. (We love it)
+ more

I hve my tree planted now. That's good for supposedly 1.5 years of CO2 offset for the average household. Since I retired my driving has gone down to about 2K a year so iy should be good for 4 years for me.

To sandman: Our prices are much lower than Albore and than outfit in New Zealand. NZ wanted 49.00 per tree. At today's special discount I'll go for 1/2 that at 24.50.

Useful Idiot

.....Jetpilot ...

.....I fear you have experienced one too many sonic booms .....COLOSSUS

Regarding climate models
The reason Algore can predict 20ft. rises in sea levels is because computer models over long time scales become chaotic systems. Chaotic systems are characterized by the “butterfly effect” metaphor, where it is said that the flutter of a butterfly’s wings can ultimately cause a tornado. The final outcomes of such systems are hyper-dependant on initial conditions; thus, one can produce radically different outcomes by changing initial conditions by unmeasureably tiny amounts.

So excuse me if I don’t believe it when somebody tells me that their computer model predicts impending doom 150 years from now

A modest proposal
I propose we establish a nonprofit Cyber Carbon Commune Project (or CCCP, for short) whereby subscribing members purchase their carbon credits directly from the cooperative. Under this arrangement, each person desiring to consume fossil fuels would enter a debit equal to their consumption in their communal cyber account. Offsetting credits would then be applied to your account as other members purchased their usage from the co-op. There would be no need to send in any actual money until the commune was dissolved. Until then, we would just apply offsetting debits and credits indefinitely. It would kind of be like “I’ll sell you my carbon credits, if you sell me yours” but without the evil middlemen. This way we can cut out running dog, capitalistic bloodsuckers like Albert “Daddy Warbucks” Gore, and his cabal of masses exploiters. Whaddaya say guys? It will be just like the 60’s all over again – meaningless, feel-good posturing in a consequence-free orgy of smug self-congratulation.

global warming swindle
share this, forward it, ask anyone who has ever talked about "an inconvenient truth" to watch this before discussing this topic with you

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831&q=global+warming+swindle

it is free, and you can watch it on google video

Darren: Regarding Climate Models
Another aspect of the phenomenon you describe is the fallacy of linear extrapolation, or as I like to call it, the "If Present Trends Continue" scam. With this bit of pseudo-mathematical flimflammery, you selectively cull a discrete set of results from a universe of cyclical,chaotic, or otherwise nonlinear data points. You then extrapolate these results into the future in order to produce whatever alleged results you care to claim. You see this ploy all the time with get-rich-quick and ponzi schemes. Of course, now that I think of it...


Flat Earth Society!
Wow, who would have though there were so many of you flat earth types left? This is a pretty impressive coven.

You wingnuts are really hard core anti-science, aren't you? Don't believe in evolution. Don't support stem cell research. Didn't believe what medical science told you about Terry Schiavo. Don't believe what medical science tells you about AIDS (remember your leader Bill Frist explaining on network news how AIDS can be trasmitted by tears and perspiration?) Don't believe girls should receive potentially life saving vaccines because they might stop fearing promiscuity. Believe that Christian fundamentalists, rather than science teachers, should dictate school curricula. Don't believe what science warned you about tobacco. Don't believe what science warned you about pollution. Don't believe what science told you about the aluminum rods that Saddam Hussein was building. Looking back at that long, sorry track record, I'd think you'd have a little more respect for empirical data. Yet, here you are, all squawking away madder than Donald Duck about global warming when every last scientist on the planet who is not employed by Exxon now grudgingly acknowledges that it is real.

I guess this is what the white house meant when it bragged that this administration is "not reality-based."

Sandman, I loved your post.
But cycle, or no cycle, if we don't do something about Global Warming very soon, death rates will soon rise to 100%. That's almost ONE for every man, women, and child living today.

I say that any nation which builds (and then REbuilds) a coastal city below sea level in a hurricaine zone can be counted on to design an efficient carbon credit exchange system properly controlled by honest bureaucrats in government.

It's not like global businesses with BILLIONS of dollars at stake would be able to buy the influence of Congressmen in order to game the system in their favor. Those guys make over 10 G's a MONTH!

You wait and see. It's the LITTLE guy who will come out ahead in this drama.


We have a LIVE ONE everybody!!!!
Iorek,

I'd take the time to respond point by point, but I have to go kill a gay whale for Jesus.

By the way, they weren't aluminum rods, they were tubes.

Also by the way, I heard during my Wednesday night baby seal head-bashing league that some of Saddam's documents which were posted on the internet prior to translation turned out to be designs for nuclear weapons. But they were UNTESTED designs. Can you believe that these nutjobs are saying that nuclear designs and stockpiles of yellowcake uranium actually constitutes evidence of a WMD program? I mean, they don't even have a mushroom cloud!

iorek
CONGRATULATIONS!!!! You just won the prize for "Most Straw Men in One Post"!!!

It takes a certain kind of brilliance to set up and knock down so many idiotic non-arguments...

Algore & AGW
Statistics show that 85% of Democrats
support Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW)
while 85% of the Republicans DO NOT accept
AGW.
Kinda looks like AGW currently is essentially a political battle. Even worse, I believe that AGW is fast becoming a new RELIGION superseding
Environmentalism. Al Gore is the new MESSIAH.
What if he should run for President of the US and actualy win. That really is a scary thought.
AGW is a belief system where the pro or con
facts are basically unknown and and the absolute
proofs thereof may not be known for decades or
even centuries with the effects of AGW being worldwide. Isn't this the basis for a religion?
Maybe this is why Gore has been promoting AGW
forever.

To SandMan
But Sandman, if we did that I would lose my profit which was guaranteed by the lefty politicians in their bills before congress. I offer a counter-proposal. We will form a non-commune organization called the Union of Statist Supplied Reimbursements for carbon sinks or USSR for carbon sinks.

iorec
Where have you been hiding your head in the sand?

AGW is a dead issue. Exposed bunko scam. Kaput!
Your long list of convoluted lies are also stale.

Are you Communists still attacking the Boy Scouts of America in an effort to make them accept NAMBLA as Scout Masters?
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44701
http://www.dsausa.org/about/history.html

http://www.americansfortruth.com/news/does-nancy-pelosi-condone-manboy-sex-if-the-man-is-a-democrat.html

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=10450

http://www.libertypost.org/cig-binreadart.cgi?ArtNum=162196

You Communists persecuted Bank of America until they would not let the Boy Scouts bank there. You persecuted the Director of Civilian Marksmanship until the DCM quit sponsoring Boy Scouts of America.
What are you going to do next in your effort to get NAMBLA into the BSA?

Global Warming
Al Gore is in need of some psychiatric help. Ever since he lost the election in 2000 he's never been the same. Yes he was an idiot before but not as much as he is now. He's reached the point of no return and is deperate for attention. The bad part is there are too many politicians that would follow Gore off the cliff.

One thing at a time...
...And as for evolution, don't these "God People" know that evolution was proven as fact in the mid-to-late-18th century by the slow, gradual changes found in the fossil record.

Then it was proven again in the early 19th century when all the old evidence had to be thrown out.

And if THAT wasn't enough, it was proven AGAIN in the 1950's (when the proof had to change to fit the facts again).

I mean, how many times do we have to PROVE this thing before people stop looking at the all the contrary evidence??!!!

The fact that science lacks even a theory for even the process of fossilization that would account for soft tissues in a 70 million year old T-Rex should not concern anyone. Or, the fact that models for the Sun have to rely on radiation which has never been detected in order to make it old enough to fit an evolutionary timeline should NOT be pointed out in any science class. Tree fossils which protrude through millions of years of layers should be kept on the "down-low." These things might confuse people.

Remember, if it conflicts with scientific dogma, it's not science.

Flat Earth Society?
iorec, dude! The only thing flat around here is the graph plotting your I.Q. which levels out at less than room temperature.

But thanks for using that snotty, elitist reference thereby identifying yourself immediately as a brain dead, Algore disciple.

Oops, forgetting my motto; Ad Hominems Restrictus

A faith whose object is totalitarianism
[quote]"Al Gore...is more like an Old Testament prophet, calling on us to bewail our wrongful conduct and to go and sin no more. ... the prophet replies, with religious intensity, that all debate should be over. Those scientists with inconvenient
views should be defunded and silenced. We should replace scientific inquiry with faith. We should have faith that climate change -- "global warming" -- is caused primarily by human activity. And we should have faith that the effects will be catastrophic, with rising oceans flooding great cities and pleasant plains and forests broiled by a searing sun....As the environmentalist Bjorn Lomberg points out, the Kyoto Treaty that Gore helped to write (but which the Clinton administration never asked the Senate to ratify) would produce very little reduction in climate change at very high cost....religious prophets are not concerned about costs. Gore calls for an immediate cessation of new carbon-burning facilities.

In other words, stop economic growth. But stopping economic growth in the developing world means consigning millions to miserable poverty. And we know what stopping economic growth in the developed world can mean.

Read the history of the 1930s: fascism, communism, world war. There are worse things than a rise of 1 or 2 degrees Centigrade."[/quote]

Michael Barone is saying, as I've been writing, that the Carbon dioxide induced Anthrogenic Global Warming hypothesis is being proclaimed as a new dogma, not being put out for scientific verification. The heretics that don't bow before the scripture are to be discredited and made unpersons so far as the pop media is concerned. (Scary dodged-a-bullet thought: suppose this issue had come up during the era of "the Fairness Doctrine" and 3 TV networks, 2 wire services, & 2 leading national dailies all repeating each other, all reading from the same page, & marching in lockstep! With no Internet or AM talk radio to counter them!)

The true secret doctrine of the faith held by AlGore & his ilk can be summed up by the following creed: "You are too stupid and irresponsible to run your own life. We should run your life and decide what you get, for you, for we are all-wise and all-benevolent." Well Barone might mention fascism and communism. Acceptance of the AGWT dogma in full would be the winning sweepstakes ticket for the self-appointed elitists looking to impose world totalitarian socialist government upon us.

I honestly believe that many of AlGore's sort know full well that this stuff, which they profess to be so important they must grossly exaggerate about it, is bee ess. They are not concerned with science or scientifically verifiable facts, but with the Higher Truth, which is the doctrine that they must be in unquestioned command of all aspects of our lives. Scaremongering using lies like 20-foot sea level rises due to our SUV-driving is in their minds justifiable because it motivates us to place our lives and fortunes in the hands of them, the enlightened elitists.

[quote]"...The world's climate, he reports, is getting warmer. This accurate report is, however, not set in historic context.

World climate has grown warmer and cooler at various times in history. Climate change is not some unique historic event. It is the way the world works.

Not this time, Gore says. What's different is that climate change is being driven by human activity -- to wit, increasing carbon dioxide emissions. Which means, he says, that we have to sharply reduce those emissions. But what the scientists tell us is that some proportion of climate change is caused by human activity and some proportion by natural causes -- and that they can only estimate what those proportions are. The estimates they have produced have varied sharply. The climate change models that have been developed don't account for events of the recent past, much less predict with precision events in the future....science tells us that the Earth and its climate have been constantly changing.

Gore and his followers seem to assume that the ideal climate was the one they got used to when they were growing up. When temperatures dropped in the 1970s, there were warnings of an impending ice age. When they rose in the 1990s, there were
predictions of disastrous global warming. This is just another example of the solipsism of the baby boom generation, the pampered and much-praised age cohort that believes the world revolves around them and that all past history has become irrelevant.

We're told in effect that the climate of the late 1950s and early 1960s was, of all those that have ever existed, the best of all possible climates. Not by science. But as a matter of faith."[/quote]

I've been asking for the longest just whence came this notion that the climate has stopped changing naturally, & any changes must be manmade and threatening. Science, including the same science the atheist evolutionists throw up at us that
reconstruct climates of the distant past, strongly indicates that there have been drastic changes in climate for the warmer & colder as long as the earth has existed. Basic physical chemistry tells us that added heat from some other source, such as
the sun, could increase carbon dioxide levels as a result, not a cause, by driving the gas out of solution in ocean water.

(try leaving an open bottle of soda pop out. It goes flat, right? Try refrigerating an open bottle of pop. It keeps longer,

right?)

The balmy climate enjoyed by the dinosaurs, and the Ice Ages, have been longstanding tenets of archeaology and paleobiology. The Medieval Warming Period (when Greenland got its name) was long accepted as scientific and historic fact. No
one seriously questioned it until it contradicted the Hockey Stick hockey and had to be arbitrarily minimized & denied.

BTW, there is still plenty of room to question whether the climate is in fact warming overall, whatever the cause might be.

MY home is somewhat over 100 mi inland and at an elevation of about 500 ft above present mean sea level. When I go out in my yard, I see patches of sand. I can dig almost anywhere and hit sand, often so clean I could mix it into mortar or concrete mix. Where I live was once a beach some half-a-million yrs ago. The ocean was 500 ft higher & 100 mi further inland, long before a single SUV stalked the Earth. All I can say is, if we can't cope with INEVITABLE, NATURAL changes to climate and sea level, we're hurtin' puppies. We'd best drop this fairy tale and start figuring out how free people with free markets, free
enterprise, & private property can deal with it, instead of trying to use it to rationalize a totalitarian dictatorship of the smug elite over us.

Thank God for ozone holes
If it weren't for Gore's ozone holes there would be no place to escape through when the ocean levels rise during Gore's global warming.

Excellent, Tread
Great post, EXCEPT there is entirely too much common sense and worse yet, pesky little facts, for a lib to wrap their minds around.

You won't convert any of them but at least you got me to wishing I'd said that.

FergusMaclennan and Steve O
Fergus my friend, we scientists look for patterns in nature. If you wingnut luddites have a history of backing faith-based, anti-rationalist propaganda and being proven wrong time and time again, I would think that might make you a little more open minded about empirical data. Your mistake with Terry Schiavo was that scientists were able to cut open her brain and prove you non-reality types wrong during your lifetime. You have made a much wiser choice in global warming-- you can haggle about it forever and you won't be around when all the data is in.

Steve O-- I am a reasonable man. I am perfectly willing to agree with you that they were aluminum tubes if you will agree with me and the rest of the world's scientific community that the IAEA was right, and Cheney / Bush were flat wrong about their purpose, and that their blunder cost our country credibility in the eyes of the world.

Oh, and Steve, when you come back from bashing baby seals, perhaps you could explain one of nature's unsolved mysteries to me. Why is it that, when faced with questions of human health and safety, or assisting the poor and the downtrodden, you wingnuts become great skeptical scientists, and refuse to be stampeded into action as long as a single scientist raises an objection. ("Let's not rush into the Clean Air Act or the Clean Water Act; are we absolutely sure that asbestos is bad for people? Could there possibly be another explanation for lung cancer besides tobacco?") Heck, George W says he still doesn't believe in evolution because we don't have enough data yet. However, when it serves your purposes, you become downright impetuous ("We know those tubes are for a nuclear program; we know those mobile production facilities are for biological weapons.") Why do you have such an itchy trigger finger in certain categories, yet you have to be dragged kicking and screaming to face scientific facts in other categories?

Vic
Don't sweat it man. If my carbon commune idea takes off, the government can always gin up a program for you to pay entrepreneurs not to compete, a la paying agribusinesses not to farm.