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Friday, July 18, 2008
Matt Towery :: Townhall.com Columnist
Will Bob Barr Fly or Flop As A Factor In The Presidential Race?
by Matt Towery
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Many folks don't even know who Bob Barr is, much less that he is running for president as the Libertarian nominee. The question is whether enough people will come to know the former Republican congressman by November to allow Barr's candidacy to really matter.

In many ways it's in Barr's hands whether he ends up becoming a material factor.

The former Georgia congressman, who led the fight to impeach and remove Bill Clinton from office in the late 1990s, will undoubtedly have a hard time raising enough money to have a legitimate shot at winning more than the typical one-to-two percent level that Libertarian candidates usually receive in presidential contests.

And if Barr is running simply to get free airtime on TV networks, or to have another 15 minutes of fame, then he can hang it up -- he will indeed be irrelevant.

Right now he's fighting to get his name on the Oklahoma ballot. That's one of the few states that make it hard for even the Libertarians to sneak in as a third party. Trouble is, his ballot fight is earning no press. If Barr wastes more than a modest sum in this effort, he may end up not even being a footnote in the history of the 2008 presidential race.

But Barr does have some things going for him. If he takes advantage of them, he could yet toss a huge monkey wrench into the contest.

One thing that many political pundits have yet to grasp is the presence of a small but powerful group of voters who consider themselves conservatives, but who believe President Bush and his administration have betrayed them. They also refuse to embrace John McCain, either because they view him as too liberal or, alternatively, as more Bush-like than they can stomach.

This voting bloc feels that Congress and the president blinked on meaty immigration reform; that they allowed U.S. monetary policy to centrifugally scatter willy-nilly in all directions; and that they have trashed basic constitutional liberties in the pursuit of phantom foreign enemies.

Many of them voted for Ron Paul, who admittedly did not meet the electoral expectations of his followers in the presidential nomination process. Or did he?

If one goes back and looks at the earliest of contests, Iowa and New Hampshire, an argument can be made that Paul's performance was strong enough to kill off any chance that either Mitt Romney or Fred Thompson ever had. In Iowa, Paul's 10 percent of the vote could easily have gone to either Romney or Thompson, or both if Paul had stayed out, allowing their campaigns to appear stronger going into New Hampshire.

And by the time of the New Hampshire primary, Paul was still polling just less than 10 percent. That performance basically sank Thompson. Had Paul been missing from the race and his supporters gotten behind Romney, then John McCain might not be the presumptive nominee today. While many in the media wrote Ron Paul off, his impact on the GOP election was immense.

Barr hopes to capture at least some of that Ron Paul vote. He won't get all of it. Much of Paul's support came from voters passionately identifying with Paul the man, and not just with some abstract, anti-establishment cause.

But if Barr concentrates his message of less government, increased personal privacy and an overall disdain for the all-too-stale GOP of 2008; if he focuses on the handful of states where his message might be well-received; and if TV media markets aren't prohibitively expensive for his campaign's war chest, then the possibly resulting four-to-six percent Barr showing could make all the difference in the world for influencing the final outcome of the presidential race.

An obvious example is his home state of Georgia. There, Barr will have to conduct an intense, targeted campaign to actually win the six percent or so that most polls show him getting right now. And the Atlanta TV market, ninth largest in the nation, is pricey.

But just an hour or so away sits Alabama. TV is cheaper there, and there are plenty of conservatives who are less than thrilled with John McCain. Throw in a decent campaign effort in North Carolina and several Western states, including, of all places, Alaska. Then add to the mix the few states that award electoral votes proportionately, and suddenly, Bob Barr could have the same impact on John McCain in 2008 that Ross Perot had on President Bush 41 in 1992.

It's really up to Barr. Will he run a smart campaign that doesn't attempt to eat the whole elephant, or will he try for "superstar" status and end up having no impact at all?

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About The Author
Matt Towery is a former National Republican legislator of the year and author of Powerchicks: How Women Will Dominate America.
 
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Irrelevant, Towery

You really don't get it, do you?

It doesn't matter whether or not Barr makes it on the ballot, because no one thinks he has a snowball's chance of winning anyway. He's simply a convenient placeholder for votes AGAINST McCain.

Those votes -- or at least MINE -- aren't going to McCain NO MATTER WHAT. Even if there were only two names on the ballot, I'd write in Mickey Mouse instead. Even if I had to scrawl it in the margins.


A well-reasoned column on Barr!
I am one of those Alabamian "conservatives who are less than thrilled with John McCain." Barr already has my vote unless he is, as they say, caught with a dead girl or a live boy. Or if McCain is able to convince me he really is conservative - but I don't see that happening.

Remember that Perot did not take Bush 41's voters away - Bush pushed them away by breaking his no-tax pledge and generally drifting left. And one consequence was a 1994 republican revolution that did a better job at limiting the growth of government than anyone else in living memory.

The GOP has clearly lost its way since 2001, though, and needs another butt-kicking. A vote for Barr is not wasted - it is a message to the GOP that they must return to limited government if they want to get elected. If McCain loses GA or AL by a margin smaller than the Barr vote, that message will be loud and clear.

Barr in 2008
Jindal in 2012

BrianR, ballot access does matter.
It is not going to affect our votes - we're both going to vote for Barr regardless.

But ballot access does matter for two reasons:

1. people are more likely to check a name and/or party on the ballot than write someone ine. I have in the past voted down the ballot for a Libertarian unknown to me just because he was on the ballot and I found both the Dem and GOP candidates unacceptable.

2. I suspect that written-in votes are undercounted. We need as many limited government votes as possible to be counted and seen by the GOP leadership in order to move them back to limited government.

Oh, yeah, Chris

I know that, and agree, but Towery totally misses the boat in intimating that the *only* way that McCain loses is an effective Barr campaign.

My take is that the dissatisfaction is high enough, regardless of Barr, that McCain's campaign is doomed. For instance, in Scharzenegger's two runs, I voted for McClintock (solid -- and rare -- California conservative) and didn't vote for anyone second time around.

Further, as far as crunching the numbers, and using my district as an example, my Congressman will win by a landslide; he always does. This is a very conservative district. But if McCain gets fewer votes here (no way could Obambi win this district), the bean counters will notice that.

But as I wrote, Barr makes an excellent placeholder for those votes.

BTW, I'm with you:

Barr 2008

Jindal/Palin or Palin/Jindal 2012


Instant Runoff Voting
Those Republicans who refuse to vote for McCain have a point about principle. However, I believe that the dangers are too great in this world to gamble on four years of Obama in hopes of picking up the pieces with some new Reagan. With the effect of third parties perversely affecting the elections of 1992 and 2000, it could happen again in 2008. It's time for instant runoff voting to restore true democracy -- allowing voters to vote their conscience for third-party candidates, but for those voters to help elect their second-choice candidates instead of the opposite party.

For instant runoff voting information, try fairvote.org or accuratedemocracy.com/.

Well, Sowell

My first choice would be Barr, my second choice would be our own Joe Oliva, my third choice would be Mickey Mouse.

How would that help settle things?

If I had 187 votes, none of them would be for McCain or Obambi.

Any way, the Electoral College doesn't work that way.



Barr is an emerging dark horse
Bob Barr's race is just beginning. He is the most qualified of the candidates still in the race having been a CIA official, a federal prosecutor appointed by Reagan, and a nationally known congressman. He does not believe that taxpayers should not pick up the tab for the investment class who did not do due dligence in investing in sub prime mortgages. He is pro life and against the threat both the Democrat and Republican Parties represent to our sovereinty and standard of living by not calling for stopping the Security and Prosperity Partnership before we find ouselves merged in our economy and oursecurity with Canada and Mexico. Unlike candidates like Ron Paul and Tom Tancredo who have spoken out on this threat in smaller forums, Barr will place this issue on the table during debates with McCain and Obama. It is obvious to me that conservatives best shot is to get behind Barr who does not have the severe negatives with conservatives that McCain does.

Stop the world
BrianR and I both going to vote for the same person. Doesn't matter too much though, Obama wins Cal no matter what he does and McCain wins Georgia no matter what I do. But I am voting for Barr.

Robert:

I'm a Libertarian, why shouldn't I vote for my party's nominee? Okay, fine I'm an idiot and you are a racist for using Ching Chong. I'd rather be an idiot than a racist.

BrainR:

Perhaps I am unsure of your views, but wht Barr as I am unsure his views would be inline with yours.

Oh, yeah, Akagi

I've actually always liked Barr. Of course, I don't agree with him on every issue, but aren't we told by the McCain supporters we're supposed to be able to hold our noses?

Well, a lot less nose-holding with Barr. He's a pretty traditional conservative.


PS, Akagi

Yeah, stop the world!

Hahahaha. I just caught that.


Barr
He is against (and always has been) the war in Iraq (as am I) and calls the US presence there an occupation which is was for sure when the US was running the government, want the states to decide drug laws (I favor legalization) which includes legalization, is against state laws enforcing immigration law (me too) as he sees this a role only for the central government, against a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage (me too), seems more flexible on the issue of abortion--again I think he thinks this should be left up to the states and I agree, against the Patriot Act (me too).

He was a "Conservative" in 1998, but today, I don't think he is using how the term is used usually. He is a conservative in the traditional sense of the word--i.e. classical liberal in the vien of personal freedom, limited government and that is not the same as a TH conservative who are fine with big government and lack of personal freedoms as long as the government is attacking freedoms they don't like. I didn't much care for him in 1998--he was very briefly due to redistricting my Congressman, but really love him now.

Preferential voting
As a fellow Sowell disciple, I too support "Instant Runoff Voting", which works very well in Australia under the term "Preferential voting". It avoids the crass stupidity of spoilers helping to elect the candidate furthest from them ideologically. Paul helped to elect McCain, and Barr will help elect Obama, the egotistical morons.

Well, Akagi

That's how I use the term, too. I think the redefinition of "conservative" to actually mean a Rightist has been very problematic.

Incidentally, and again stop the presses, but I agree with pretty much every one of those positions you've stated, with the possible exception of the drug issue.

Well, jono64a

Very simple solution for you.

Get the Constitution amended.


"Sending a message" is ambiguous
Christ says:

:A vote for Barr is not wasted - it is a message to the GOP that they must return to limited government if they want to get elected."

But votes by their very nature send a mixed message. The election of a radically left President and Congress may convince unprincipled RINOs that they need to move even further left to win. After FDR dominated with his demagogery, we were stuck with the leftist Rockefeller Republicans for decades of minority status. In Australia, the election of the lefty Labor Party has bluffed many in the ostensibly conservative Coalition to move leftwards on affirmative action and globull warm-mongering. The UK Conservatives are quite lefty now.

Robert
The man whose posts will vanish as soon as the moderators find them in the morning. As most TH people can attest, I am hardly right-wing.

Most think I am a liberal, communist, anti-American agent of the DPRK and/or PRC. And a Europhobe too. Oh and a Taiwan agendist (well they got that one right).

Hard to paint me with that brush. I voted for Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis, Bill Clinton twice, George W. Bush twice. And will vote for Bob Barr. So Robert, am I right-wing? Am I a loser?

Oh Robert, in the GOP primary I voted for McCain in 2008 and in 2000. I know Barr can't win, that's not the point. I hope McCain wins, because Obama would be a diaster--in the same vien as Jimmy Carter.

In 1996 I vote for Pat Buchanan--not that I supported him, but had other reasons.

Towery
I think you left out what will happen if Ron Paul should endorse Barr at his MN conference – his numbers will climb in many states. Look at how many people came out to vote for Paul even after McCain cinched it. I was in Washington DC last weekend, thousands of people showed up for the march despite CNN’s claims. I doubt Paul will endorse him, but if he does, you may be surprised at the numbers he will post.

As for writing someone in, be careful – many states throw out the votes if the candidates did not register as a write in candidate. You are better off voting for someone on the ballot if you want your “None of the Above” vote to actually be counted. Besides, write in votes are counted later, well after the main stream media has declared a winner and got bored with the whole thing (you know their attention span) – if you want your protest to be known pick someone on the ballot.

Jono

You: "The election of a radically left President and Congress may convince unprincipled RINOs that they need to move even further left to win"

Yep, could happen, in which case the GOP will go the way of the WHIGS and be replaced by a new and truly conservative party

OR

the Great Experiment's over, and it ended in failure. The whole country turns into California.


But history tells us that the GOP does occassionally get the message, a la the 1994 Contract With America sweep of Congress. That pretty much gelded Clinton for the remainder of his administration (though obviously, not as far as interns went).

Further, we've recently seen the triumph of traditional conservatism in the elctions of Jindal and Palin, which is still fresh in everyone's minds. Couple that with a McCain debacle, and they'd have to be pretty blind to miss it.

But you're right, I wouldn't put it past them.

Third Parties
In the US, most dramatic changes have been the result of Third Parties. The major parties then co-opting the popular planks and leaving them with the radical planks. The GOP itself was a third party until it won in 1860.

Woman suffrage, income tax, direct election of US senators, prohibition, abolishment of slavery all came from third parties as did much of FDR's ideas in the New Deal.

If more people voted LP, maybe one of the two major parties would get serious about limited government, and a host of other planks the LP supports--voting for Barr and the LP is not a wasted vote.

If Obama wins because of Barr, well I'll take a page from Nader when he was accused of costing Gore the election in 2000. McCain won't lose because of Barr, and George Bush didn't lose because of Perot--Bush lost because of Bush, Gore lost because of Gore, and McCain if he loses will lose because of McCain. And Paul didn't beat Romney and Thompson, they did that on their own.

Robert:

The carrier didn't blow up, it was sunk by torpedoes fired by four Japanese destroyers when it caught on fire and the fires couldn't be controlled. The ship wasn't able to be controlled, so it was ordered scuttled by Yamamoto. Oh and if you are curious about the name--I have a detailed entry on my blog--click on my name, I am not named after a ship, the ship and I are named after something else--a mountian to be precise in Gunma Prefecture.

Actually Robert, third parties have had great influence on civic debate in the US. I support a third party in Taiwan too--I guess I am just a third party guy.

Since I consider her a twinkie, it wouldn't suprrise me if she used ching chong. Send me the link here or my blog. But the fact remains you used it and calling her an anchor baby is highly inaccurate.

Robert
Political science, MA, Ph.D.

I think I have studied a good deal about civics and politics though yes my emphasis was Asian politcal theory and comparative politcs--I wasn't an "American government" guy, but still I think I have a pretty good grasp on the subject. Oh I forgot, besides flying airplanes and arresting people and the like, you do research for Robert Putnam on the side. Oh maybe you are Robert Putnam, that's the ticket.

Message
Voting for Barr will send a message if the votes counted for conservative Republicans down the ticket total many more than the votes for McCain.
It could really get interesting if McCain should lose by the percentage of votes going to Barr.

I'm voting for Bob Barr in November
Many people I know will, too.

To learn more about Bob Barr, visit http://www.bobbarr2008.com .

There Is A Conservative Candidate!
Chuck Baldwin, the Constitution Party presidential candidate, is the only nominated candidate who is both conservative, and against amnesty and for border security The latter reason is why I cannot support Barr, whose Libertarian Party is for open borders

If you check out Baldwin and the Constitution Party (www.constitutionparty.com), you will see they are the only conservative choice. Is Baldwin the best choice this Nation could elect president in 2008? No. Is he the best of the five nominated? Yes. Sadly, yes.



Another 1 - shooting for Wirs fame here
Another column where Towery just doesn’t get it. Of course he is a full neocon McLame supporter so one should expect much. McLame should complain because Barr is throwing a “wrench” into the election, that’s how McLame got in to begin with. And frankly Towery, it wasn’t so much the Ron Paul vote as it was the Huckabee wrench.

In any case, these are votes that McLame would NEVER get to begin with so you can’t say that he is stealing votes from McLame. If the Dems were to run Samm Nunn instead of that empty suit they would blow McLame out of the water by a 30 point margin.

Here's one that uses and old left wing
slogan:

What if they gave an election and nobody came?

Bob Barr ..another middle of the road...
I had a good long look at his website..I admit I didn't know much about him..He's not that much better than the others. This is a horrible set of election options!
While I like his stance on homeschooling, I can't stomach his stance on same sex marriage. I like his 2nd Amendment stance I can't stomach other things, our borders not withstanding.

Voting for Snoopy this election might be the best option..He's at least got morals and a good sense of National Security...

If You Vote Barr, You Help Obama
The political bottom line is that a vote for Bob Barr is a vote that helps Obama. There is no escaping this political fact.

So if you want left wing policies implemented in this country, then go ahead and vote Barr. From Obama, you will get increases in government spending and thus taxes, actions to rescue defeat from the jaws of victory in Iraq, pursuit of appeasement policies in foreign affairs, efforts to extend outright amnesty in immigration, promotion of pro-abortion policies and nomination of left wing judges to the federal bench.

If you don't want that and you shouldn't, then get sober and serious and vote McCain. He is is a pro-life fiscal conservative who served his country as a Navy combat aviator and P.O.W., who has been a fiscal hawk and will cut Government spending, who has been right all along on Iraq and will insist on victory in Iraq, who has been and will be a hawk in foreign policy, who will cut the corporate tax rate to spur business, who accepts the judgment of the majority of American people that law enforcement in immigration must come first and who pledged to the Federalist Society in January 2007 and thereafter that he will nominate strict constructionists to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Rebuplican Party
Can continue presenting us with turkies. That's their decision. But most of us remember the steadfastness of Ronald Reagan. True, he was not Einstein, but he was a people-smart man who actually believed what he was saying. Unlike the feet of clay types that have followed.

same
Voting for McLame because he is not as far left as O’Vomit is just like congress called it a budget cut just because they didn’t raise the spending as much as they wanted or planned.

A negative is still a negative and I have held my nose and pulled the lever for the last time with Bush. I did just like I had done in every election since Reagan. I held my nose and voted for the lesser of the evils, or as I used to say at the time, I voted against Kerry, I did not vote FOR Bush.

Voting for McLame because you think he will appoint originalist judges is wishful thinking and runs contrary to his record which is NOT originalist.

All that this has got us is the Republicrats drifting further and further to the left. They are in search of that mythical independent voter who doesn't make up his mind until 2 minutes before voting. In other words, they are chasing a chimera and will lose more than they gain. As long as we reward them for this bad behavior they will continue to chase liberal votes by moving further to the left.

As the Republicans drift further to the left taking some of the Commiecrats issues for their own, the Commiecrats will drift further to the left. It becomes an endless cycle of moving further into socialism. What we will ultimately wind up with is a “Stalin” running against a “Mao” and being asked to vote for Stalin because he’ll kill fewer millions than Mao.

People, if you vote for someone who has continually stabbed you in the back, then you deserve every backstab you get.

Barr on The Ballot
I would never vote for Obama no matter how many pretend turns to the right he makes. I'm not voting for McCain. I don't like him and I don't trust him on ANY issue. I want to vote, though. If I stay home on Election Day I'll just be counted as one of the lazy Americans who can't be bothered to vote for President. It won't register that I can't stand the candidates. I want the Republican Machine to get the message. You know those guys. They were the ones lecturing us incessantly about how we better get behind McCain and toe the party line right after McCain was nominated. I think that turned me off even more than McCain. But, I have also heard that some states don't even bother to count write-in votes unless there are enough of them to make a difference in the results. Is that true? If so, I would like to see Bob Barr get his name on the ballots in all of the states even if it means he'll only get less than 5 percent of the vote.

I WILL vote for Bob Barr
Amnesty John is going down to Obamanation-- period. It might be a slaughter. I reluctantly got talked into voting for "the lesser evil" twice when I voted for Presidente Jorge-- we just ended up with evil--> a pointless, never-ending, neoCON, profligate war against the wrong Islamics... growth in govt. (Rx Care For Seniors)... and embracing of ILLEGALS. We would have had 2 of those anyway with the obvious big govt. lib.

No mas lesser evil!!! I will vote for Bob Barr regardless. If the Republican party insists upon proffering RINOS/CINOS, then it can learn now (sooner than later) that imitating the other guys is not a winner. The electorate has NOT moved decidedly leftward-- recent winning 'Crats have won moving to the right while facing CINOS. The recent election in Utah where ILLEGALS were a key issue caused the incumbent amigo Cannon to get clobbered!

We have become a government too much by and for the special interests, but over 70% of us want ILLEGALS stanched and want to quit squandering billions a week in Iraq. The RINO party needs a wakeup call in the WORST way.

I still think Rush said it best....
'We are soooooo screwed!'

At this time...
...Bob Barr seems the only rational choice.

Baldwin looks like a good man, but The Constitution Party does not support the U.S. Constitution. Read their platform before you decide to vote for Baldwin.

Don't Be Forced Into Nose Holding


The RNC has managed to nominate the author of the last amnesty bill. They wanted to make sure that we who oppose amnesty would not have any choice in this election. We do have the option of voting third party or a write in. I intend to exercise that option. The argument that it is cutting off our nose to spite our face does not hold water. If the nose has a cancerous tumor the size of a RINO horn that will kill the patient, the prudent thing to do IS to cut it off.

You Forgot Youtube
Towery has missed that not everyone gets their news and political input from broadcast TV. Anyone interested in Bob Barr's positions can view him presenting himself on youtube on the internet. Anyone wishing to promote Barr should open a youtube account (it's free) and add Barr's youtube channel to their favorites.

Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/user/BobBarr2008

Barr and immigration
Both Hendry B and edna say they don't like Barr's stance on immigration.

Unlike McCain, he is for stopping the influx of illegal immigrants, and against giving them citizenship.

Unlike Baldwin, he is for increased LEGAL immigration - so we know that the people coming in are useful to us, healthly, and unlikely to be terrorists.

Calling for increased legal immigration is a different than McCain's open borders / amnesty policy.

Voting for J. McCain - Just kidding
Voting for McCain or Obama would be analagous to shooting one of your family members.

How could anyone in the right mind vote for these candidates? McCain is for massive illegal immigration and bigger government and Obama is for massive government regulations and taxes.

Who in the military wants John's 100 years war, when the military needs to be here at home defending the United States of America from John McCain's illegal amnesty invasion.


I'm voting for Barr
This election will be interesting. Barr needs to get his name out - NOW. Everyone I talk to cannot vote for Obama and doesn't like McCain. When I tell them about Barr they say "who?". People want someone to vote for and this election cycle is the best oportunity for a true conservative to make a stand and a difference.

BrianR
I agree totally. I can't vote for either party anymore.

I came of age when Carter was president. That created a disdain for democrats as whole; but then, the Clintons killed off any chance of me voting for any democrat, even Zell Miller, if I could.

Both Bushes ended my willingness to put Republicans in office.

I am going to vote, but will only vote for third parties and independents.

And for those who will say it, just shut up because: I AM NOT WASTING MY VOTE!

Wasting my vote is to not vote or vote for someone or some party I can't stomach.

They're living In A Dream World
I'm not a Ron Paulian psychotic but I am a person who feels that Bush and the RINOpublicans failed because of their devotion to compromise and weak-kneed prevarication with our foreign and domestic enemies. Now the same clowns who failed to accomplish one single conservative thing when they had a majority in both houses and the White House are asking us conservatives to line up and vote for a doddering liberal incompetent who just got through crawling on his belly to the Marxist Mexican nationalists at La Raza and was booed for his efforts. That they could foist a candidate on us so supremely unqualified and unrepresentative of the views of most people in the Republican Party has severed any feeling of loyalty that might have caused me to vote for McLame. Barr and the Libertarians are idiots,they dont have a sane platform in my opinion, but is that superannuated clown of a McLame sputtering about Global Warming any better? At least Barr has a distinguished record in combat against the enemies of our country; he was one of the few who stood up to the slimy,mendacious, corrupt Clinton Crime Family and made sure that being impeached for being the liar that he is would always be the first item in any historical account of BJ The Wonderful. Obama will win so I'm going to send a message to the Country Club RINOs with my vote for Barr.

bob barr
don't know bob barr??? these are the people who will go to the polls in november ????? my my!!!

Barr Fly?
and Ann Coulter's web page, GetDrunkAndVoteForMcCain?

There's a joke in there somewhere.

Phil Byler
Thank you for your common sense. Job Number One is stopping Obama. Anyone who reads Townhall articles should be sufficiently frightened of the prospect of Obama running unchecked by Congress to overcome their differences with McCain.

wasted votes
Would you rather vote for some one you want and not get him, or for some one you do not want and end up with him?

If every one voted for the candidate they really wanted instead of the lesser of two evils, we would have been much better off. I cannot vote for either McCain or Obama.


Remember, the lesser of two evils is still evil!

Sam
"John's 100 year war"? Where do you get your news? That mangling of McCain's statement was one of the shameful Obama crowd-pleasers a long time ago. Check McCain's actual statement, please.

about Barr
re:
"Barr needs to get his name out - NOW.
Everyone I talk to cannot vote for Obama and doesn't like McCain."

********************************************

If the networks will allow Barr to join the debates, it will mortally wound the already dying Amnesty John... I agree that many cannot stomach either Obamanation the Pied Piper empty suit socialist, OR Amnesty John McQuisling, the open border neoCON--> refried amigo Presidente Jorge Bush... been there, done that!

100 years war - McCain
How about 100 million illegal immigrants John?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFknKVjuyNk


We are only screwed
if we let ourselves be. We need to break the party dictatorship plaguing this country.

Party loyalty has trumped loyalty to country just as Washington warned us it would.

Our government has become a mechanism of extortion by legions of special interest groups at the expense of liberty and common sense.

It may indeed be spiting in the wind to hope for limited constitutional government, but I had rather be covered in my own spittle than live with a giant boot on my neck that I helped put there.

I'll vote for Baldwin or Barr, depending on who is on the NC ballot. Not to cut off my nose, send a message or any of that. I will vote for who I agree has the best interest of us all at heart, regardless of party.

Our government has outgrown our bank account. I don't see how enlarging it and bankrupting our future is in any of our interest.

More power for government equates to less liberty almost every time.

Fred Thompson as the VP
Fred Thompson can put all the La Raza boys that McCain is going to let in on his bright red pickup truck, while he pretends to be a good ole boy....

I think it is time for the GOP to RIP.

3rd party all the way....



dave, I would encourage you to vote for
Republican candidate Steve Pearce for the senate.

dave wrote "I am going to vote, but will only vote for third parties and independents."

I don't know Pearce from Adam, but I do know that if Obama is POTUS and the Democrats take the 60 senate seats necessary for closure, we are in for massive increases in socialism, including government health care.

I'm planning to vote Barr for POTUS, but also vote to re-elect Jeff Sessions. He's been a major disappointment on government spending (voted for Bush's scrips for seniors and for the farm bill Bush just vetoed). But he's also been the leader on fighting McCain's amnesty, and is rated A+ by the NRA.

Under other circumstances I'd vote 3rd party against Sessions - but this year it's important to have as many people as possible in the Senate that will fight Obama's socialist agenda.


Oh - and for you McCain supporters, it's people like Sessions that make me think a McCain presidency will be as bad as an Obama - Sessions voted for Bush's drug benefit, but I guarantee he would have voted against it had a Democrat POTUS pushed it. The GOP congress is much better at limited government when in opposition to a Democrat POTUS than in cooperation with a GOP moderate.

A vote for Barr is a vote for Obama!!!!
~

Vote for McCain is for Illegal Invasion!
....

Well, Eddie too

It seems to me that when I look at my ballot and see Barr's name there, I'm sure it won't have the name "Obama" in parenthesis behind it.

How about this? "A vote for McCain is a vote for the destruction of the country?"

You like slogans; how about THAT one?


FoxNews is killing Barr
Fox News Channel for all practical purposes represents the 'alleged' voice of republicans, conservatives & libertarians. However, as most of us know, Fox, regardless of its pretense to the contrary, is actually a rubberstamp for Rino & Cino candidates.

Were Fox daily covering Bob Barr as much as they do McCain & Obama... Barr would quickly surpass McCain in popularity amongst the republican/conservative/libertarian 'run of the mill' voter... because he actually is a conservative. Should Fox cover Barr daily on a equal footing with Juan & Obama, the other news outlets would have to compete with Fox and increase Bob Barr coverage on their stations and channels.

However, that's not going to happen. RINO Fox News will back CINO Juan McCain and delegate the true Robert Taft conservative Bob Barr into the 'wasted vote' category... the exact same way they treated Tom Tancredo, Duncan Hunter and Ron Paul during the primaries. That's why on TV I switched from Fox to MSNBC's Morning Joe, CNN's Glen Beck and Lou Dobbs. One more thing...

As it stands now I plan to be one of those wasting my vote on Nov. 4 when I cast my ballot for Bob Barr.


vote waster here
I like to think of myself as a long-term thinker. Voting for McCain is a short-term panic vote. Got to stop somewhere. Unlike some battered wives, I'm not going back.

A Vote For McCain Is A Vote For Obama
Declare your independence from the GOP. Don't go back for more abuse. Don't waste your vote on a D-Lite candidate.

I just don't see a down side

Even if McRINO wins, that's going to be four years of great material to shove in the face of "hold your nosers".

Out here in Leftifornia, I didn't vote for Schwarzy either time. Now all my friends are running around tearing their hair out over the guy, and asking me who they should vote for in this election. Clearly, my answer is "NOT McRINO".

We'll be able to criticize the hell out of him without any risk of someone calling us hypocritical.

There's no down side at all.

A pleasant surprise
Over the 4th of July Holiday I flew North to attend a small party for a family member retiring from the Army. There were perhaps 6 Army officers and 6 civilians in attendance plus wives & children, none of which really knew one another.

What surprised me was none of the 12 men liked their choices for POTUS on the two major party lines. Not one of them. An Army major brought up Bob Barr's name and I was delighted that each of the civilians & two of the officers were familiar with Barr and had talked of voting for him as they were fed up with the Rino Bush republican party. The other 4 officers were going to check Barr out.

I realize that a small Army retirement party isn't much, but I did return to Georgia with a sense of hope (for the rest of the country) because 12 ordinary men, who usually vote republican, who were unknown to one another... were all considering voting for Barr.

As I said in an earlier post.... that's exactly why RINO Fox News won't put Barr on an equal coverage basis with Juan & Obama.

agree about FAUX News
re:
"RINO Fox News will back CINO Juan McCain and delegate the true Robert Taft conservative Bob Barr into the 'wasted vote' category... the exact same way they treated Tom Tancredo, Duncan Hunter and Ron Paul during the primaries."

***********************************************
I am a Reagan limited govt. and America First conservative who became disenchanted with the CINO Faux News some time ago. They are stooges for the open border/globalist and neoCON crowds that Presidente Jorge and Amnesty John embraced willfully and blindly. The left is largely right when it bleats that Juan would represent a 3rd Bush term-- oh joy!

Vacuous Bill O'Reilly brayed that he was for Kennedy-McCain scamnesty because we needed to do something about the problem-- Jeez! Never mind that a path to amnesty for 20 million (which would soon become 60-100 million per Heritage) would be an unmitigated disaster for America.

Zionists Krauthammer, Barone, May, Gaffney, and Kristol take turns on FAUX explaining why we need to spend $2 trillion in Iraq to protect Israel's flank ($400,000 per Israeli). Half as much oil is now coming out of Iraq, and the 1 billion+ Islamics dislike us more than ever! Such a deal!

Scarborough, Dobbs and Beck ARE better.

Alex Jones & Jack Blood Talk Radio
Alex Jones & Jack Blood are for real unlike the phony left vs. right paradigm that Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. that preach propaganda.

1) Alex Jones
http://www.prisonplanet.com (Look for Listen live)

or

http://www.gcnlive.com/Programs/AlexJones/On_Demand.html


2) Jack Blood - Deadline Live
http://www.gcnlive.com/

or

http://www.gcnlive.com/Programs/Deadline/On_Demand.html




Towery the elite!
You forgot the Constitution Party (Chuck Baldwin) which will be on all 50 state ballots and 20+ independents; their website links can be found on my own website, JOEOLIVAFORPRESIDENT.ORG.

The elites of both parties suffer from an arrogance of assumption. The assumption is that these two major parties are deserving of holding all the power in Washington no matter how much they trash the Constitution, rule of law, and will of the people. The GOP will die this Novemeber, and hopefully, after 4 years of Obama socialism, so will the Dems.

Who cares about them? They have betrayed this nation at every turn, the most glaring example being the energy crisis. Neither party did anything since the 1973 oil embargo to prepare for a future where America would be free from dependency upon imported oil.

Visit my website and check out these other independents. Why not? The elites have stolen our inheritance! WE THE PEOPLE are no longer willing to sit back and once again vote the lesser of two evils, and then expect a different result. Thanks, Joe


Barr's filling in for Alfred E. Neuman
Barr mainly gives those who can't vote for McCain a person to vote for rather than Alfred E. Neuman.
Personally, I literally would sooner vote for General Benedict Arnold than McCain, but Obama would be such a disaster I'm going to put Vice Grips on my nose and select McCain. He'll ruin the world slower.

Poor ol' Bob is a Republican - - -
- - and, as an independent Independent with some very strong Libertarian leanings, God no, I couldn't vote for him. Nor the other guys too. Face it, McCain's a pandering RINO, Bob Barr's 'way to the right of him, and Obama's just unmentionable filth, so, forget him.
Thus, as a consequence, unwilling to settle for the Lesser of Evils or the Evil of Lessers, perhaps I'll write-in John Bolton's name... he has more cojones than any/all of the others. Or, come to think about it, I may write in my wife's name. She has more than the aforementioned candidates too, and she's a lot smarter (Ph.D. in Business, MBA and another Masters in Logistics). This is probably the sickest election in memory, and I'm 73, going on 28. Sad!

Who will ruin us more?
The problem with ruining the world slower is that a McCain presidency will guarantee the Dems to take control in 2012 and stay in control for many years. An Obama presidency will ruin us faster but will probably push the country back to the right quicker. I really think McCain will hurt us more down the road. I don’t think vice grips on my nose would work if I were forced to vote for McCain. I think I’d have to go with Coulter’s suggestion instead, but I’m not sure there is enough Scotch in the world.


Joe, I like Baldwin as an individual, but the Constitution party has to stop waving Jesus in everyone’s face if they want to be a major player. If our founders had wanted Jesus mentioned every 10 sections they would have put his name somewhere in the Constitution.

What if...
Just maybe Bob Barr will steal votes from Obama. Why not? After all, he is pro-gay marriage, pro-terrorism, pro-illicit drug, pro-open borders, an isolationist, and an abortion flip-flopper. In other words, he is leftism personified.

And you libertarians call McCain a liberal...

Maximillion
You are FOS.

Applause
I applaud those of you who are voting for Bob Barr for standing on your convictions and voting your conscience. I indeed hope it does send a message to the RNC, although I doubt it. But I have great admiration for people who value the freedom to vote enough to try to cast their votes intelligently and based on convinctions. Good for you.

I hope, too, that there will be enough similar people on the Democratic side who are disenchantened with Barack, at least enough to not give him their votes. And I hope that numbers soars between now and November.

As for me, I gotta' vote for McCain, the one candidate among many hopefuls that I said I could never support. For me, it's not a vote for McCain, it's just a tiny attempt to keep Barack and his loud-mouthed wife out of the White House.

Max, get a grip.
"Just maybe Bob Barr will steal votes from Obama. Why not? After all, he is pro-gay marriage, pro-terrorism, pro-illicit drug, pro-open borders, an isolationist, and an abortion flip-flopper. In other words, he is leftism personified."

No, unlike big government "conservatives" who have no problems using the power of the state to crush freedom just as long as it is freedoms they disagree with, Barr is a real conservative unlike most of the CINOs on TH.

Barr opposed a Constitutional amendment banning Gay Marriage as he rightfully says this is the perview of the states--marriage is a state issue not a Federal issue, he is pro-state rights, not pro-gay marriage. I know this is hard for turbos like you to understand, but I try. He is not pro-terrorism, he is pro-privacy, pro-limited government, in short against the increased power of the Imperial Federal Government to spy on you and me. He is also not pro-illegal drugs (and it looks like you could use a good toke, bud), but favors the states having the right to decide. If California wants to have medical Marijuana or legalize it for everyone, let California do it, again, a state rights issue--something conservatives used to support, you know state rights?

He is also not isolationist, simply he rightfully points out how stupid Bush and his advisors were on Iraq--wrong war, wrong place, wrong time and executed badly. He is not pro-open borders either. He does oppose the states and their creations (cities, counties) from enforcing immigration law as he rightfully points out THIS IS A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT RESPONSIBILITY, NOT A STATE RESPONSIBILITY. He also is not pro-choice, but thinks that Roe should be overturned and the decision left to the states.

In short, Barr is a real conservative--limited government, personal freedom. And you are a "CINO nutcase."

I agree with Vic too
I think the planets must be alinging in weird ways--first BrainR and now you.

I Am A Conservative.

I Am A Conservative.

I will NOT vote for anyone who is not a conservative.

I have NO horse in this race, unless it is a third party candidate.

My single vote will not make a whit of difference, but IT IS my vote.

I may throw it away, voting for a third party,
but I will NOT vote for a leftist or a marxist.

GHWBush is the last dem-lite I ever voted for.

His "Read my lips, no new taxes" lie, was the last straw.

Never again !

Angry Conservative Rat !













Barr...I'm For Him!!!
I am a Libertarian and was a Kubby delegate, then when Steve Kubby ran behind, I became a Mary Ruwart delegate. It came down to the 6th ballot: Ruwart supported by radicals like me, and Barr supported by moderates.

Barr won. Now I support him as I now compare him with Obama and Mc Cain. He compares (I should say contrasts) *very* favorably.

His stands on the issues, ranging from guns to drugs to war to the market, are in line with the Founders. Freedom across the board!

I hope Paul supporters will consider backing Barr.

See my blog for some free-market thought:

http://www.alicelillieandher.blogspot.com

Reason after Reason
after reason for "wasting" a vote - yes that is it exactly - a wasted vote.
If for nothing else - we can not allow the Supreme Court to go down the tubes.
Considering the world as it is today - we can not survive an Obama Presidency.
A vote for Barr is a vote for Obama.

A Vote For McCain Is A Vote For Obama
The world will end if you don't vote for OUR liberal!!

Oh, the humanity!!!!

Get a grip, BOTH of them stink on ice. I will vote for someone I like, not McLame or Obambi.

Dollar collapse engineered by Rep & Dems
The dollar collapse and the hyperinflationary depression is being engineerd by the Federal Reserve, Hank Paulson (Treasury Secretary), Republicans, and Democrats.

McCain and Obama are puppets to collapse the dollar by massive spending for wars, illegal immmigration, federal programs, etc.

This is all being engineered on you.

Rush Limbaugh, Keith Oberman, Chris Matthews, and Laura Ingraham hate you the citizens of the United States and are part of the WWE tag team agenda to create factions to have the public confused destroy this country.

Rush Limbaugh needs a whipping....



It's the Media, Stupid!
It's the media's fault that Barr isn't doing any better in this election. I just watched Fox News for an hour and didn't hear even one mention of Bob Barr. And why is it that Fox News and CNN both keep citing old polls that show Barr's support as being far lower than it really is? They say he only has 3%, when the latest polls have him at 6 (and as high as 10 in some states). The media is simply trying to shut Bob Barr out of this election. If they would give him some fair coverage, he'd be doing a whole lot better.

And, let's not forget that according to the polls Barr's support is coming not just from Republicans but also from Democrats and from Independents. So he's not a spoiler for McCain--he's the guy who all the disenfranchised conservatives who want a real choice will turn to.

Bob Barr always fascinated me
I could never tell if Bob Barr was genuinely indignant about the malfeasance of the Clinton Administration or if he was a politial oportunist looking for a camera. His appearance was always that of a kind of nerdy-loser.

His current position confirms that he is, and always was, a loser. And the people who vote for a loser are also losers.

And the losers may end up costing our country dearly.

J. McCain and Laura Ingraham are losers
...

Not going away
Interesting article - sure wish we had a little more even-handed coverage of Ron from TH when it mattered. Oh well.

I wasn't sure who I was going to vote for but was leaning to write-in Paul here in Texas. But I received a great e-mail from Barr today which was sent out to all RP supporters. This guy is a fiscal conservative/small government/stong (but smart) national defense candidate who seems to stand for most of the same things as Paul. As a result, I signed up on his e-mail list and will at least give him a closer look.

A vote for Barr is a vote for.....?
Echoing the chief talking point of Bob Barr-haters, Phil Byler posts:
"The political bottom line is that a vote for Bob Barr is a vote that helps Obama. There is no escaping this political fact."

This assumes that if Barr were not there we would all meekly fall in line behind McCain. But in my case, at least, if I were forced right now to vote for one of the two major candidates I would pick Obama. No, I don't like Obama, but I'm not blindly terrified of him, and I think he may be the "lesser evil" compared to McCain, rather than vice versa. So I supopse you could say that in my case "a vote for Barr is a vote for McCain." It's *really* a vote for "neither of the above," though.

Byler also says we should vote for McCain because he "was right on Iraq" and is "a hawk on foreign policy". He's named a couple of my reasons *not* to vote for McCain. I think Iraw was a well-meaning but dsiastrous mistake; I don't want to vote for somebody who thinks invading Iraq was a great idea and wants the U.S. to stay there another 100 years-- and who might make the same kind of mistake again. And if being a "hawk" means taking a stand against America's real enemies when conflict is unavoidable, that's OK. But if it means "creating* enemies, meddling in foreign conflicts and commiting American lives and tax dollars to more quixotic "nation-building, democracy-spreading" projects-- no thanks.

Rosemary, the Supreme Court is no
reason to vote for McCain.

Although he did vote to confirm Alito, he also criticized him for being too conservative.

I don't trust McCain to nominate a SCOTUS justice that he knows would overturn his monstrosity of a campaign finance law.

And even if he did pick someone good, he'll never be able to get his choice past the Democrat Senate we're sure to have for the next four years.


Oh - I love Alaska's reason to not vote for Barr - he looks like a nerdy-loser.

Akagi 4:22pm
"CINO Nutcase" eh?

Well, perhaps you are in the position to address some of the libertarian party's inconsistencies. First, your erroneous claim that the libertarians merely oppose Bush's Iraq war conflicts starkly with this would-be party's long-established platform. They don't support any intervention in foreign affairs, any at all. The late Harry Brown blamed 9/11 on US support for Israel, Kosovo, etc. No doubt the libertarians would condemn any action to protect Taiwan from Chinese aggression. Being so interested in Asian affairs, that must bother you... unless you are a "Sino nutcase".

Another question: with no proactive measures to fight terror (i.e. the War on Terror) or defensive measures (i.e. the Patriot Act) how does Barr plan to defend our country? Does he believe the terrorists to be reasonable people who will leave us alone when unprovoked? That strategy has sure worked wonders in Europe!

B.Barr is not a Conservative
His positions are closer to the Democrats. He is against FISA. He sued the Bush Admininstration over FISA and GITMO. He wants to reduce the size of our military. He is againt building the Wall. And is for Amnesty.
Which of the above positions, sound conservative?
All who do not care about McCain, just stay home! Our troops will suffer the most. But whatever happens, I really, as a conservative, do not care anymore! I welcome Obama presidency. Those with children will suffer too. Carter years will be the best of times! Have it your WAY.
Conflict in Middle East, was and will not be of our choosing. Vote Obama. See how Appeasement works.

Akagi again
How, exactly, can Barrbie insist that abortion should be left to the states? You either believe that life begins at conception, the first trimester, or birth. That is the basis for abortion rights. The Federal government absolutely has a duty to protect its citizens including the unborn. Allowing states to "choose murder" or "stifle reproductive rights" (depending on what you believe) shows blatant nihlism. Pick a side and stick with it.

How can Barrbie claim to support state's rights while hindering them from protecting their own borders when the federal government fails?

Medical marijuana is a total fraud/excuse. Modern medicine is perfectly capable producing stomach dilators and pain killers without the accompanying rapid-braincell-destruction. I'll do without the toke, thank you.

MaryStella
100% correct!

Maximillian, unlike McCain, Barr would
act to stop illegal immigrants from entering the country. You may remember it was mainly illegal immigrants who executed 9-11.

I will say this - I wish Ron Paul and Bob Barr were for finishing the Iraq and Afghanistan jobs right. But even though I disagree with them on that issue, they are still so many other issues Barr has right (relative to McCain) that I'm happy to vote for him.

MaryStella says that Barr
"is againt building the Wall."

That's because he wants to massively increase border security patrols by agents - people are much better and more cost-effective than a wall that can be cut, dug under, or jumped. Barr also supports measures to remove the incentives for illegal immigrants to come here.

MaryStella then says Barr "is for Amnesty."

BS! (Link please) Barr is AGAINST Amnesty. He is for increased legal immigration, but for stopping illegal immigration. He is much more conservative on this than McCain.


Take a look at http://www.bobbarr2008.com/issues/ before spewing disinformation next time.

Ideological trash
So you are a Liberal-tarian, are you now, Akagi?

Why, up until now, you have been an anti-American, pro-big government CLOTH. I see that suddenly, you have found some issues for which you are not in favor of government interference in the free market. Interestingly, they are all social issues or anti-immigration enforcement. You seem to have nothing to say about any of the major big government issues we Townhallers have been complaining about for ages.

Not surprising. The Libertarian Party is a refuge for crackpot, crackhead leftists who want to pretend that they are pro-freedom and cognitively independent. That is why they overlook the social conservativism history of Barr, and the populist liberalism of Gravel.

chris
If Barr believes in border enforcement, then he is aggressively breaching the Libertarian party platform. Any success for Barr will be shared amongst his minions.

I was intrigued by the libertarian party in my teens. I was shocked, however, to learn of Ayn Rand's contempt for that faction's nihlist and isolationist tendencies. After 9/11 I took her criticism very seriously.

I commend you, though. You're the only one on this thread to engage me without childish insults and cuss words.

Enjoy your weekend.

Wendy
Sensible points, indeed. Dare I say you must reside in eastern Washington.

Maximilian, review the constitution on
state's rights.

Max says "How, exactly, can Barrbie insist that abortion should be left to the states?"

All other statutes concerning manslaughter, murder, and death are (properly so) legislated at the state level. Abortion is and should be no different.

If you think otherwise, list where in the constitution it is the federal government's business to legislate on murder. If you can't find it, the 10th amendment applies and the issue devolves to the states.

You write "The Federal government absolutely has a duty to protect its citizens including the unborn."

From foreign powers only. The states and local governments have the duty to protect their citizens from each other, not the federal government (except for insurrections). Again, if you disagree, point out where in the constitution it says so.


Max continues "How can Barrbie claim to support state's rights while hindering them from protecting their own borders when the federal government fails?"

Article 1 Section 8 of the US Constitution says:
"To regulate commerce with foreign nations ...
To declare war ...
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions ...

Section 9 continues "The migration or importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year 1808."

Clearly national defense, including international border control, is an enumerated federal power.


Max continues "Medical marijuana is a total fraud/excuse."

Fine. Like murder, drug control is not an power enumerated to the federal government in the constitution, so it devolves to the states. Why else would an amendment be required to outlaw alcohol?


Barr is completely right and consistent on states' rights.

Maximilian, I missed one thing:
I skimmed over and missed the caveat about states protecting their own borders "when the federal government fails."

I agree with you on this - under the 9th and 10th Amendmenst the states should be able to protect their borders - especially by internally discouraging illegals from living and working there - if the Feds fail.

I believe Barr's goal is to get the Feds to stop failing at this primary function.



You enjoy your weekend too...

Depression now inevitable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrt-zdN7vrc&eurl=http://www. prisonplanet.com/depression-is-inevitable-now.html


Thanks to the Federal Reserve.

But McCain doesn't know what is causing this. That is why the Republicans chose this loser.



Towery: RINO
Why are you referring to conservatives as "they"? Shouldn't that be "we"? We are not a "small" but influential group. We are influential because we are substantial enough to outnumber Republicans Rasmussen cannot hide us by their "balanced" polling that show Republicans to be 32% of voters to the Democrats 41%. The other polls are not under-representing Republicans when they only comprise 22% of the sample. That IS the right number. In November 2006, Republicans cast 26.8% of the vote, down from 39% in November 2004. Does anyone believe that the GOP number has not gone down? We outnumber you guys and will show you in November the talk will not be about Obama's mandate but debating what it meant for "none of the above" to cast such a large vote. I predict Obama will win with 43-45% of the vote. Not exactly what the liberal establishment expected nor wanted. Elections used to be won with 55-60% of the vote typically. We haven't even been close since Bush in 1988 and that was because of the Reagan spill over vote. This is going to be the 5th straight presidential election that fails to deliver a mandate. GOP-RIP.

Sam
The depression is being caused by "malaise" and bad attitude by us knuckle-dragging, xenophobic, bigoted, absolutist Neanderthals. I'm trying to find my WIN button. Never thought I would ever need it again. No luck yet but I DID find my Nixon/Agnew and Ford/Dole buttons.

Pasadena Phil - I am a whiner
Americans are a bunch of whiners about the econonmy according to John McCain's adviser Phil Graamm. I will shut my mouth, love FISA, love the patriot act, love illegal immigrants, love government spending, and of course love my Federal Reserve. That is the GOP platform. Will that get a speaking enagement this summer? Of course not, this wasn't written "SPANISH".

I am going to cry and whine Phil Gramm. Here is the link for whining about the depresson (all caused by our president, congress, and our beloved Federal Reserve).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrt-zdN7vrc&eurl=http://www. prisonplanet.com/depression-is-inevitable-now.html



Sam
I find clinging to my guns and religion helps. I only have two hands though so I still haven't figured out how to coordinate all the clinging and hold my nose at the same time. One has to go. I don't like nose-holding anyway.

Watch out if you are next to D. Cheney
D. Cheney doesn't know where his gun is going to be pointing. I just think of D. Cheney as a straight shooter when he is hunting. Of course I am not sure about the gun laws in Dubai, since D. Cheney will now be declaring residency in that area.

Better hope they have good petrochemicals to keep D. Cheney's pacemaker going in Dubai. Of course you never know it maybe Osama Bin Ladin who will be performing the next operation on D. Cheney in Dubai. We don't know where he Bin Ladin. Although some some suspect he is dead.





Not Bob Barr's Time
Bob Barr doesn't have enough momentum to actually WIN. A vote for Barr, however well-intentioned, equals a vote for Obama. Barr is this campaign cycle's Ross Perot. He will do nothing but help hand the POTUS over to Obama. This election is too important to gamble with. A McCain presidency we know can survive through and wait until 2012 to really push Bob Barr, work on getting him elected. If Obama wins this time around, America as we all know and love her, will be gone. We'll be part of some socialist world union that Obama turns America over to, and our conservatism will surely be a thing of the past, perhaps in hiding.

If anything, Bob Barr should be trying to help McCain fight off the Obamamenace to American Society. We're all going to have to pull the cart in the same direction if we want to defeat Obama and the evil he represents to America.


Barr and Gore
Barr made sure that I would not give him my conservative protest vote when he started consulting with Gore on environmental/global warming issues.

Brickhouse

McCain votes with the democrats. That's a fact. Do you really want someone like that in power with an R next to his name? Who will get the blame when he signs big government, economy crushing democrat bills into law? Take cap and trade for example. A McCain presidency will be the death knell of the republican party and I refuse to be a part of that. Waste your vote if you want, I'm voting for Barr.

TOWERY IS BLOWING THE CFR HORN
Towery writes:

Many of them voted for Ron Paul, who admittedly did not meet the electoral expectations of his followers in the presidential nomination process. Or did he?

The answer is Yes and No:

First of all, its obvious that the Marxist MSM..i.e. the one the thinks Obama is the second coming and the reincarnation of Camelot and JFK and RFK...did their best to work hand in hand with the CFR manipulators in their attempt to margianalize Dr Ron Paul, Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo. So, no his campaign did not get the kind of traction and the so called in your face...TOP TIER as they were called...and it was proven when Ron Paul was banned from the Fox debates and was not given coverage like the so called TOP TIER...and remember..Rudy Guiliani..one of the TOP TIER...who didnt do squat...but others were banned from debates because the media was picking and choosing like they are doing now with Obama.


DREAM ON....CFR MOUTHPIECE
TOWERY WRITES:

"If one goes back and looks at the earliest of contests, Iowa and New Hampshire, an argument can be made that Paul's performance was strong enough to kill off any chance that either Mitt Romney or Fred Thompson ever had. In Iowa, Paul's 10 percent of the vote could easily have gone to either Romney or Thompson, or both if Paul had stayed out, allowing their campaigns to appear stronger going into New Hampshire."

The sole purpose behind McCain's strategy was to split the Evangelical vote so it would not go to Romney. At first, your Neocon and CFR buddies thought Fred could tie up the Evangelical vote but Evangelicals are a little smarter and savvy than your thought...then you find out in Iowa that Huckabee is just what the Doctor ordered...in fact, the whole thing almost backfired. If Huckabee had not have taken Evangelical votes away from Romney.......
Romney would now be the Presumptive Republican Nominee and not John McCain. Good try Matt but we are not buying it.


You Forgot About Nader and McKinney????

Towery is just as one sided as the Marxist MSM.
He forgot about Ralph Nader and he forgot about Cynthia McKinney and the Green Party...she will take votes away from Obama in Georgia especially
where here former district was located.

I think its obvious how bigoted CNN and Fox news including NBC, CBS and ABC because the Marxists MSM will not cover Nader or McKinney or the Green Party...Although I am not for either of them...I find it outrageous that Obama monopolizes most of the time. Its sickening that so many idiots are drinking the Obama koolaid...

WOW
This is the second time that Akagi has said he agreed with me.

Doomed presidental election 2008.
You will hear many republicans and conservatives saying that a vote for anyone else other than McCain is a vote for Obama.

They will also tell you that the next president in the next four years will appoint 9 supreme court judges.

I'm actually wondering what we will see next.

If your one of those people, these arguments aren't going to help you. Most people who are against McCain know what they are doing. The only thing worse than a liberal democrat is a liberal republican.

I don't have anyone to vote for president really. Maybe Baldwin or maybe write-in. But I highly doubt it will be McCain and it will not be Obama.

The conservative choice in 2008 is to ignore the president election and give all the support to congress. With help they might make it. It is worth a shot, unlike McCain. Make 2008 all about congress.

A Libertarian View--
As a libertarian since the 1970's, I'm not impressed with Bob Barr, but he is far superior to either of the major parties' candidates.

As the author points out, there is a large segment of the "conservative" community that is really "libertarian." These are the folks who believe that conservatism really means smaller, less intrusive government that is not interested in micro-managing everyone's lives. They also believe that government should live within its means, not spending more than it "earns" through taxation.

And, these conservatives also believe that America should stay out of foreign entanglements, that the military should be used primarily to defend US territory, rather than establish imperial outposts on the far side of the globe.

Now, Bob Barr is not ideologically consistent in supporting these views, but in comparison to McCain, he is far superior.

Americans are getting awfully sick of being told to choose the lesser of two evils. "If you vote for Bob Barr, you will end up electing Obama," is a cynical view. Frankly, I don't see much difference between Obama and McCain anyway; one advocates a multi-trillion dollar, bloated government conducting imperial wars in Iraq, while the other advocates a multi-trillion dollar, bloated government conducting imperial wars in Pakistan.

Both will likely attack Iran, a third-world country with a GNP the size of Denmark's, on trumped up charges of "having a nuclear weapons program," something for which they have produced zero evidence.

Both will likely face an economic crisis they will have no idea how to solve.

If Bob Barr were allowed to appear in the upcoming debates with McCain and Obama, he would likely grab fifteen to twenty percent of the vote. But the D's and R's are far too cozy with their "two-party system" (a phrase unknown to the Founders) to allow any other viewpoint.

Paulo
Like you there are some things that I see that I disagree with Barr on. However, I disagree with McLame on nearly everything.

I for one am sick of these people posting "vote for McLame because the Vomit is so bad". I have been hearing that and doing that for 45 years. All it has gotten us is a steady pull to the left and worse candidates year after year.

This year the candidates are the worst thatI have every seen. McLame only has one thing going for him and that is about to become moot.

A Vote For McCain Is A Vote For Obama
Declare your independence from the GOP. Stop holding your nose for unacceptable candidates. McCain is the spoiler. He is a Democrat Trojan Horse. We can elect a real conservative.

Actual Libertarian views
Many times in this thread, uninformed (or plain stupid) people have stated that Bob Barr is "for illegal immigration." First of all, this is funny on the level that McCain and Obama have no workable solutions to the issue, and are, in principle, for the status quo - which is illegal immigration.

Secondly, Bob Barr's personal position on the issue of immigration is the same as mine - 1) secure the borders, and 2) end welfare benefits for ALL, especially illegal immigrants, and 3)liberalize the immigration requirements for ALL people, white and brown and black. This can be found on his website, http://www.bobbarr2008.com/issues/border-security-immigrat ion/

Thirdly, the Libertarian Party platform, found at http://www.lp.org/platform states "3.4 Free Trade and Migration

We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders. However, we support control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a threat to security, health or property." As you can see, both the Party and Barr support controlling entry (i.e., secure the borders), as well as allowing those who are not criminals to enter our country freely (and known by the government).




DevilsPaintBrush: Name Says It All
Your name speaks for itself; interesting choice.

You said, "McCain presidency will be the death knell of the republican party and I refuse to be a part of that."

What is so great about the GOP that you feel the need to preserve it (in its present form?). Who saddled this old horse for us anyway? Obama would push America over the cliff and rebuild some "fair" utopia. A new-improved socialist America; equal misery for everyone. Conservatism can't survive an Obama presidency; there would be nothing left of us because we would belong to a world union.

Like I said, it's a free country and you can vote for whoever you want to, but

I'll Say It Again
If you don't want to see it,then don't read my post....a vote against the Republican nominee,whoever he is,is a vote for Obama!!

No other candidate can get enough votes to do anything except help swing a state into Obama's camp. This is not the year for a revenge vote. It is far too important.

Everyone has a right to vote anyway they please. We will not always have that right,if we keep turning left. We should always vote our
preferance.

We should be honest enough to admit we will be helping send a hard-left Marxist wannabe to our White House. If we can live with that admission,then go for it.

This election

"This election is too important to gamble with."=quote

I wish someone would have thought of that in the nomination process. The base warned, and the bluebloods gave us the finger.

Some of us will return the favor this November.

Fair Debates
As a libertarian since the 1970's, I have seen many fine libertarian candidates who have never been allowed into the so-called "Presidential Debates." This includes Ron Paul in 1988.

Folks, D's and R's play for the same team--the Washington Party. They will not permit a new approach to the issues. Basically, you get to choose every four years between a candidate advocating trillion dollar budgets and billion dollar deficits, with the shortfall made up by the counterfeiting presses of the quasi-private "Federal Reserve"; and a second candidate who calls for exactly the same thing, with a few cosmetic differences.

Bob Barr, if he were allowed into the debates, would make both McCain and Obama look like the bland, unprincipled power mongers that they are. This will not be permitted.

I say this, even though I think Bob Barr is not a particularly good representative of libertarian thought. But even this flawed candidate stands head and shoulders above both McCain and Obama.

The Missing Link to a 3rd Party
3rd parties will always be treated as cute little novelties in the MSM and even on the cable networks and conservative and liberal talk radio. They will always be portrayed as spoilers, hotheads, nuts, weirdos, and inconsequentially delusional flashes in the pan whenever, if ever, they are portrayed or given any airtime at all. They are just another media circus act - a cute little sideshow!

The missing link to making a 3rd party candidacy viable is the establishment of a new tv or talk radio network that will promote 3rd party candidates, a new political paradigm if you will. This network will hold establishment politicians' feet to the fire from both ofthe mainstream parties. When it steals the ratings from the other networks, it will be hilarious! The other media will have no other recourse but to report the phenomenon of the new network(s) much to their chagrin.

The problem is that funding will have to come from us - the public - We The People and hopefully some well-funded patriots out there who genuinely love this country a la Ross Perot; Corporations will shun anything 3rd party that seeks to destroy their stranglehold on what was once OUR government in DC. It could be fashioned as a 3rd Party, national or statewide public tv or radio network like the public tv networks in each state or NPR. It would revolutionize political discourse to a new level and create DC's worst nightmare. Try to imagine what political pressure it would create on the 2 major parties when the word gets out on how much the American People utterly despise these corporate whores! We have to put our creative thoughts into political action to rescue OUR government and OUR sovereignty. We must learn to think OUTSIDE the box to beat the powerful political, corporate machine that got us in this mess in the first place.

BrianR writes
"Barr 2008

Jindal/Palin or Palin/Jindal 2012"

Hmmmmm. I seem to recall you being the one insinuating I was a kook for being a Ron Paul supporter. And here you are Barr, Jindal/Palin for the next 8 years? As I say: Hmmmmm.

Take Back The Government
There is room for a third party or fourth party,but there is not one yet in this election cycle that is strong enough to do anything but be a spoiler.

Three months is not enough time to do it. If we elect a Republican this year who would not throw out the baby with the bath water,by the next election cycle,we could be strong and viable.

I doubt if many conservatives voted for McCain and are very unhappy with his candidacy,but he does have some redeeming values we all strive for. He is not a hard-left person who wants to totally destroy both parties.

I think Obama is a danger to our country. His benefactors are foreigners who want to fulfill their dream of a Socialist/fascist country and I will not aid them in their quest.

McCain Is Unacceptable
He was unacceptable before the primaries, he's still unacceptable. I will not vote for amnesty. Period.

Maximilian
The Libertarians (unsure about Barr) would oppose the US getting involved in a conflict between Taiwan and the PRC. But since the US has betrayed the ROC before 1949 and Taiwan after 1949 on many many occasions I don't have any expectations the US would come to Taiwan's aid--it might, but it might not. Any country stupid enough to trust the United States does so at its own peril. Just ask the Republic of Vietnam--oh that's right, you can't because the US basically ran away and left it to rot and didn't lift a finger when the north violated the terms of the peace agreement even though the US had made an obligation to the RVN to use military force to stop such a violation by the north.

Personally, I think the ROC/Taiwan should have told the US to go f itself when it put pressure on Taiwan to stop its nuclear weapon program--if Taiwan had Taiwan would have a nuclear stockpile as large as the PRCs today and any invasion by the PRC would invite Shanghai to disappear under a radioactive cloud. Taiwan militarily would be in a much better place now if it had continued its nuclear program.

No one is a pure anything and I don't support all planks of the LP, nor do you I'd expect support everything the GOP supports.

Abortion should be a state issue as it was in 1973--Roe v. Wade didn't legalize abortion, it simply took the decision from the states--Oregon for example had abortion on demand and Roe actually made abortions in that state more restrictive.

Wendy
Anti-American? No. As I have said my opinion toward the US can best be described as apathy. I could easily live someplace else and be as equally happy, perhaps even more so.

Big government? Show me a post where I have ever been pro-government? It is most of you so-called conservatives that favor big government, not me.

Palin will Neutralize Barr
If McCain names Sarah Palin as his Veep, Barr will be more than neutralized as a non-factor.

Interestingly (and powerfully beneficial for a Palin pick), Palin will simultaneously attract both Hillary AND Bob Barr voters!

Akagi
For the record, neither I nor the entire legitimate conservative movement approves of America's betrayal of Vietnam. Aside from slavery and the alliance with Stalin, it was this nation's greatest sin. I'm glad not to have lived during such a time.

As far as Taiwan's nuclear armament is concerned, I don't know its history, but will assume the US acted to prevent nuclear proliferation to its allies in order to encourage similar conduct from the Soviets. It was probably controversial and I'm not entirely certain what would have been the best choice. Up to me, I'd have allowed them to arm themselves.

Dr. Paul Supperter Here
I left the republican party after nearly 30 years (about 2 years ago). Bush was the proverbial back-breaking straw.

The Rockefeller wing (hiding behind Neocons and RINOS) went too far and I can no longer associate with a war-mongering, ruthless, and unAmerican group of scoundrels.

I briefly reregistered republican to vote for Dr. Paul in the primary, but voted for Mitt when it became clear that McCain, whom I consider a traitor, surged.

Anyway, I'm back to not being a republican again, but I have absolutely NO interest in Bob Barr. I could never be a member of the commie-pinko, baby-killer Democrat Party.

Choices?

I'm SERIOUSLY looking at the Constitution Party--not just for this election--but for a more permanent political home. I do not want to be associated with the powerful Catholic and Jewish republicans who have, in my opinion led the nation astray into unjust war and risk creating hatred against Christianity and Judaism in America by leading protestants around by the nose into great moral error.

As such, I prefer the noninterventionism of the Constitution party. I prefer its American values.

Otherwise, I would write-in Dr. Paul. A true American hero whom the allegedly moral, allegedly conservative republicans smeared and mocked.

Sorry Buck
The flooding was in places like far eastern Kaohsiung county, Tainan county, Chai-i County, Yunlin, Miaoli, etc.

Get a map of Taiwan sometime that has the counties, these areas push toward Nantou county and various high mountian ranges--e.g. the Alishan range and when a typhoon comes across it dumps lots of rain as it gets ripped apart and the rain then rushes down these high mountians. I think it was someplace in Miaoli county that got 1 meter of rain in 10 hours.

These areas also tend to be poor and not have the best drainage. But to answer your questiion--still here and dry.

Not sure what France has to do with Taiwan as France was never really ever a strong supporter of Taiwan--it did sell the Mirage 2000 though to Taiwan in 1992.

Singapore? A small little speck that has the population smaller than the Taipei metro area and only 1/3 of the size of Taipei county. Oh and whose "spirtual leader," Lee Kwan Yew is a water boy for Beijing?

And if there is an ingrate in the relationship between the US and Taiwan, it is the US, not Taiwan. The US often treats Taiwan like an abused spouse.


Chuck Baldwin vs Bob Barr
Dark Matter, I would encourage you to vote for Chuck Baldwin of the CP rather than write someone in. Write-ins may be undercounted.


I've been flogging for Barr for months, until John in Jefferson pointed out Barr's fall for the global warming hoax (at Jul 18 - 10:34 PM on this thread). I'm now leaning toward Baldwin.

I checked John's assertion, and there is indeed such a story on The Hill. I emailed the Barr campaign for verification and got this response:

Thank you for your concern. I am writing this as a response to your concern with Mr. Barr's appearance at Al Gore's press conference last week. Clarification of this position is very important.

First, Mr. Barr has been one of the staunchest supporters of drilling within the United States as the most immediate method of relieving the nation of its pain at the pump.

Second, while scientists disagree as to whether global warming exists or what its causes are, Mr. Barr remains "firmly committed to free market solutions and innovations to address this issue; not tax-driven policies."

Third, Mr. Barr is "particularly pleased that Mr. Gore agrees that the public debate of this issue should include [him] so that the American people can make an informed choice after hearing a range of views."

I hope this clears up any confusion. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

Chris
I would hate to write-in a vote and cling to the notion only because I haven't gotten over throwing away the privilege and honor of voting for Dr. Ron Paul. (dabbing tears). I blame McCain for it. :)

Anyway, Chuck Baldwin is a fine man who is finer, in my opinion, than Bob Barr. And I like the Constitution Party platform much better than the Libertarian Party or the write-in platform (there isn't one!). Yet I understand that no platform is perfect.

Thank you for your advice; I will remember it. I like a clean and healthy environment, but don't trust the democrats to obtain one without tyranny.
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