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Thursday, December 27, 2007
Matt Towery :: Townhall.com Columnist
Would Reagan Vote for Ron Paul?
by Matt Towery
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What would you rather watch?

On Christmas Day, I glanced at the memorabilia from my years in politics. The photos and notes from Newt Gingrich. Candid shots of me with the likes of Jimmy Carter and of the brilliant mastermind of his presidential victory, Hamilton Jordan. Next were shots of me posing with Bill Clinton and then with both President Bushes.

And oh yes, here was a young U.S. Senate aide Matt Towery with one Ronald Reagan.

Everyone knows there are plenty of people with photos of themselves with politicians. And there are loads of people who were close to Reagan. Many of them have both the credentials and the motives -- especially the motives -- to refute what I am about to write. Certainly my friends who still consider themselves respected experts and D.C. insiders would never dare write what follows. They would be cast off into the outer circles of the political establishment.

Personally, I could care less. So here goes.

Reagan was once an Iowan. He once broadcast University of Iowa football games, and he later was "discovered" by Hollywood when living in Des Moines.

It is my personal belief that if Reagan were alive and living in Iowa today, and he had to choose among the Republican presidential candidates, that he would likely choose the man the GOP establishment and national media have written off -- Congressman Ron Paul.

To begin with, there is little doubt that for at least foreign policy, Reagan was basically a non-interventionist. He bragged about the fact that the United States did not occupy foreign countries. He stressed in virtually every speech about the "Evil Empire" of the Soviet Union that they must be brought down, but not by use of force or war. When provoked by Libya's Muammar al-Qaddafi, the Osama bin Laden of the 1980s, Reagan used strategic bombing next to the quarters in which al-Qaddafi was sleeping to bring the brash "terrorist" to his knees.

Even the vicious murder of more than 200 troops in Lebanon did not provoke invasion or war. Instead, Reagan removed U.S. presence there in order to cool down an ultra-hot situation.

Oh yes, we did invade Grenada. More a military exercise than a true battle.

As for domestic policy, again Reagan's philosophy seems closer to that of Paul's than any other Republican candidate today. Reagan constantly railed against big government. In speech after speech, he emphasized the need to adhere to the Constitution, and to respect the powers of the individual states. Sound familiar?

As for some of Dr. Paul's more far-fetched positions, they may be "out there," but it wasn't hard for me to find quotes from Reagan that reflected nearly the same sentiments. For example, Paul's concerns about a monetary system based on something closer and closer to worthless paper was similarly expressed by Reagan as early as 1964 when he stumped for Barry Goldwater for president.

In a speech that year, Reagan expressed concerns about America losing its monetary independence. And, eerily, he alluded to fears about foreign nations owning American currency.

As I try to remind my friends who were around in 1980, Reagan was considered by the mainstream Republican establishment to be as kooky as many label Paul as being.

Gerald Ford in 1980 was quoted in Time Magazine as saying that Reagan was "unelectable." It is no wonder that when Reagan challenged Ford some four years earlier for the GOP nomination, Paul was one of only a handful of sitting congressmen who supported Reagan's effort.

What Paul lacks is Reagan's movie-star looks, and the credibility that comes with having been governor of California. Even without those attributes, Paul has managed to become the first Republican candidate I've seen since 1980 that can draw huge crowds so devoted to their candidate that they seem almost cult-like in their zeal. Believe it or not, that's what we thought of the Reagan crowds that gathered early in his bid for president in 1980.

The fact is that Reagan tamed both his rhetoric and the implementation of his agenda to meet the realities of the presidency. My guess is that were Ron Paul to have such a chance, he would inevitably do the same.

I still believe that between the Republican Party's longing to appear "mainstream" and the national political media's fear of appearing to give in to "fringe elements," that Paul's quest for the nomination will fall far short in the end.

But as I have said before, Lord help both parties if he decides to run as a third-party candidate. They may not like what he might say, but he would darn sure say it.

As Reagan said once said when a debate moderator cut him short, "I paid for this microphone." Paul might just buy one of his own.

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About The Author
Matt Towery is a former National Republican legislator of the year and author of Powerchicks: How Women Will Dominate America.
 
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Another one
Mr. Towery has been leaning this way and now he emphasizes his opinion. Refreshingly frank, historically supportable, evenly toned.
Thanks for that.
Still undecided. Paul? Thompson? Hunter?
Wouldn't it be absorbing if the nominee wasn't clinched until my state, Indiana had their primary? That's May! Could happen.

Ignorant of the way the world is.
I seriously doubt Reagan would've voted for Paul. For one, Reagan was quite pragmatic and wasn't quick to cast his country in such a negative, seditious light to even dare to imply that America had 9/11 coming, that by our actions or inaction or whatever that the Islamofascists were spurred to action. That primarily is the reason that Paul, if he is a real doctor of anything, is a nutcase, and shouldn't be allowed near anything sharp and dangerous.

Second, Reagan understood that the world is not like it was prior to World War II, and he knew that America had a choice to either participate in the game or withdraw, and if we chose to withdraw, place our collective heads in the sand, we deserve the fate of whatever our would-be oppressors have in store for us. If you don't play the game, don't cry when you lose. You have to take action if you wish things to really change in this world, and Reagan knew that. Perhaps, in the face of an enemy like the Soviet Union he wasn't quick to go to a open conflict, but we're facing an enemy now that isn't bothered with notions like deterrence, where they believe their deaths as a result of perpetuating Jihad is preferable than a life where infidels rule. And with the possibility of jihadists possessing WMDs, we can't afford to ever be so isolationist. Our enemies aren't going to just let us go peacably like that.

Towery's Ron Paul column
Reagan would have voted for Abraham Lincoln, which is more than Ron Paul can claim. Mr. Towery's column is embarrassing.

Doug: Embarrassing is right!
.

Doug your right on
"To begin with, there is little doubt that for at least foreign policy, Reagan was basically a non-interventionist."

Wwwhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttt?!

The deal with Reagan is that he had his hand full with the uuuuuuhhhhhh what was that again, oh yeah the soviet union.

The ideal that the Reagan or Bush 1 administrations had more competent or capable advisors or leaders then the current administration or that with the attack of 9/11 they world not have gone into pretty much the same strategy this current administration has is wellll.........STUPID

Anyone with a lick of intelectual honesty that was in the military during the early to mid eighties just could not write the stuff in the above quote. We braced the Soviets at almost every oppurtunity. The difference between todays current enemy and the one faced by Reagan is those faced by Reagan understood mad, and counted the cost too great.

True Conservative
The Reagan revolution did not accomplish all of its stated goals. Reducing the size of the federal government was unfulfilled. Defeating the Soviet Union was the primary issue and we succeeded. Dr. Ron Paul is a true conservative and should receive the full support of all former Reagan revolutionaries.

Cut-N-Run Ron Paul
Needs to retire with dignity and stop embarrasing himself, before they come with the butterfly net and the straight jacket.

Couldn't have said it better myself
As a Republican, I've slowly become convinced that Ron Paul is the only viable candidate for our Party in 2008.

The man exudes Christian morality while supporting fiscal responsibility. His campaign marks the beginning next wave of Reagan Republicans to sweep the Party and the nation.

This article could not have put the Paul campaign into a better context. I disagree with the reporter on only one point- I am confident that the Paul campaign will not peter out before seeing success. Dr. Paul's support grows by the day at a rate that will surpass any other candidate come Super Tuesday.

Mark my words- Ron Paul will be the next Republican Presidential candidate, or the Republican Party will be losing the Presidency in 2008.

The new and improved Ron Paul:
Alan Keyes.

Paul and Keyes agree on much. Dr. Alan Keyes, Ph.D. gets it right where Dr. Ron Paul, M.D. comes up short. Interestingly, Reagan would side with Keyes, not Paul, in those very areas of disagreement.

http://www.alankeyes.com

Would Reagan vote for Ron Paul
Who Cares?

In spite of what Ann Coulter thinks, Reagan did
not achieve sainthood, not was he Moses leading
people out of the wilderness.

He was a nice guy, and he said the memorable
line about "tear down that wall." But otherwise,
his personality and his sense of humor is about all I remember about him (and the huge deficit).

Two Rons; only ONE Reagan...
I agree with Towery - sort of. Reagan would support Paul ONLY if Paul denounced the anti-semites, 9/11 truthers, and various other anti-war nutburgers Ron Paul openly appeals to for support.

Shoot, I'D support Ron Paul if he had the integrity to distance himself from the wacko-fringee's who presently support him. The other Ron - Reagan - would have put that bunch of losers in their proper place; the Democrat Party or the 3rd Party looney bin...

What sort of idiot...
confuses non-intervention with sound judgment and policy? Oh, that's right, Knight of Bawaa, and his lunatic Ron Paul. Guess Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, von Clauswitz, or Marcus Aurelius wasn't on their reading list. If they could possibly read.

The entire premise for this approach is flawed. You'd have to believe that America is the cause of most, if not all, of the problems of the world, or at least the problems we currently face. "We wouldn't have so many enemies if we weren't involved in so many places." The age-old cry of the ignorant. Even if this premise had any merit at all, non-intervention would not make our enemies come close to even respecting us.

And your drivel about Reagan cutting and running from Lebanon is just that, drivel. Reagan didn't want to do any such thing; Congress demanded a withdrawal, and deals are made in Washington. Given your pathetic and ignorant rant on that, it just goes to show why lunatics like Paul shouldn't be anywhere near sharp objects, let alone the White House.

No he wouldn't!
Reagan, was one who understood the dangers of his day and he wasn't afraid to take on the evils of the world. Ron Paul does not understand the threat of Islamic Extremism and would have us collectively put our heads in the sand.

Reagan would probably vote for Huckabee. Ed Rollins certainly is.

http://wwreagando.blogspot.com/



The REAL Question is: Would
Cut-N-Run Ron Paul vote for Reagan?

Or would he disapprove of the "Gipper's" military buildup and unblushing patriotism?

Cut-N-Run Ron is a Leftytarian pretending to be a Republican.

Ron Paul
As I stated before in other articles, Ron Paul is a couple of cans short of a six pack where foreign policy is concerned. I can agree with his conservative stance on domestic policy (except drug legalization - yet another strike), but we're at war, and he doesn't address securing the borders, stemming and curtailing illegal immigration, or present a mandate for a victory in the War on Terror.

Given his stance on the War on Terror, I'd have to say the man is a loon, who seems to pander to a select fringe hoping to garner some sort of support from those who believe the war is all America's fault, and that there can be nothing good to come of it.

For those of you who believe that Ron Paul is going to be given the GOP nomination for President, all I can say is don't bet on that. He just doesn't have that kind of support, neither publicly or privately. What's more, he's a congressman, and that only lowers his odds of even being nominated to that office even further. His stance on foreign policy basically killed his chances anyway.

Because the most important issues facing this election are the War, Immigration, and Taxes. He's right on taxes, but when he made the huge blunder in the first GOP debate, his candidacy was over.

Tweaky
Ron Paul has clearly and consistently denounced both the 9-11 truthers and anti semitism and every other racist group. Obviuosly you have not heard many of his speechs or read much of what he has to say. However, being an intelligent and inquisitive person, now that I have told you the truth of the matter, you will verify this for yourself (very easily on youtube). Once you have done that, being an honest sort, I welcome you into the fold of Ron Paul supporters! Unless you're not as honest as I assume you are, of course.

OMG
How long til the author gets fired? A pro-Ron Paul article? BLASPHEMY!
As a long-time Republican I've been quite a bit turned off at how lobbyists have turned what could have been a just-war administration into a period of us having to perpetually take heat for some godforsaken war in a 3rd world country on the other side of the planet...

Oh my...
The GOP leftists and conservavangelists who constantly invoke Reagan's name in justifying their twisted world view aren't going to like this a bit...

Reagan LOVED Dr. Paul, and I feel confident in saying that Reagan would've rallied against every cantidate BUT Dr. Paul in this cycle.

Reagan crushed the greatest threat the US ever faced with WORDS not with BOMBS.

Towery angers neocons/faux conservatives
Towery will elicit alot of comments.

The neocon junta that hijacked the GOP is apoplectic at Towery's contention that Reagan was at heart a non-interventionist. Neocon rage notwithstanding, Towery is basically correct.

With the exception of Grenada(which lasted how long...a few weeks?) Reagan's 8 years in office witnessed no U.S. invasions of other areas or nations(even when provoked, as in Lebanon).

Contrast that with the current administration.

It entire 8 years in office has been characterized by invasion of other lands, or threats to invade other nations. In my opinion, Afghanistan was the only one which was justified.

Neocons are chafing at the bit to attack Iran. They now are hyperventilating with rage over reports the administration, despite their intrigues, may not attack Iran afterall(tho I would not bet the farm Bush and his cronies won't).

This reckless and radical adventurism hopefully is beginning to wane. War is not an ego-driven exercise, conjured up by academics in faux-conservative thinktanks who beat the drums of war for the blood of others to be spilled, and then slink back to the safety of their think-tanks.

War sometimes is necessary, but it must never be undertaken cavalierly...as I believe it was in the case of Iraq, and if neocons have their way, will again with Iran.


Towery a demagogue, like Ron Paul
Like Ron Paul's campaign itself, this column is demagoguery dressed up as political analysis.

Towery puts Reagan on an unassailable pedestal and elects himself as able, miraculously, to somehow read its mind.

The messy, mortal fact is that, like ashes scattered to the winds, Reagan's legacy is traceable in bits and pieces among all the candidates. He was a great leader for his times, but the times now are somewhat different.

Briefly put, Reagan's greatness was his firm and explicit faith -- faith in American principles and in the enduring, transcendent values of a Judeo-Christian God. That, and his determination to make that faith practical through political leadership. He didn't always succeed, but that was the stuff of his success, his reputation, and his legacy.

If I were to pick one candidate only in this field who best represents Reagan's legacy, I would say it's a toss-up between:

Duncan Hunter
Alan Keyes

Reagan and Ron Paul
As a non-voter/non American I am constantly amazed at how so many candidates ignore the US Constitution, the most successful and succinct political document ever crafted. Ron Paul makes reference to it all the time and for that very reason makes more sense than all the other candidates put together. I wish him success, but alas Americans have turned their back on the Founding Fathers something they will regret for a very long time.

Bob.

tweaky
"Two Rons; only ONE Reagan...
I agree with Towery - sort of. Reagan would support Paul ONLY if Paul denounced the anti-semites, 9/11 truthers, and various other anti-war nutburgers Ron Paul openly appeals to for support."

Where is your proof that Paul has openly appealed for such support? There isn't any and either you know this which makes you a liar, or you are basking in ignorance, most likely inspired from too much neocon talk radio.

Other than one post above all of the rest of Paul's detractors have to resort to name calling instead of making an intelligent counter argument.

As for the one argument invoking the Cold War my response is that times change and there is a big difference between the USSR and bin Laden and his gang. I don't believe for a moment that Reagan would have invaded Iraq seeing how that it had a secular govt. that wouldn't have tolerated a religious nutball like bin Laden. I would go so far as to say that there probably wouldn't have been a first gulf war because Reagan wouldn't have make the mistake(?) the first Bush administration did by having the ambassador to Iraq inform Saddam that we weren't interested in his dispute with Kuwait just prior to the invasion in 1990. Reagan would have told him to stay out of Kuwait and Saddam would more likely than not done as asked.


Ron Paul a crackpot, like his followers

"I still believe...
Paul's quest for the nomination will fall far short in the end."

That is most unfortunate. When Reagan was running against Ford in the first primaries, he was defeated and America chose a real politician for president. Someone who could dance around any question without actually answering it and someone who played to the church goers by talking about his Southern Baptist roots. In the end, we bought one of the worst presidents our country has ever had, Jimmy Carter.

I have heard commentators talk about Paul being "whacky" but they can never actually give an example of what it is he says or does that they consider less than sane. If our schools would teach government like they use to (it once was a required subject for graduation from high school) maybe people would realize the only thing "whacky" is what the so called "main stream" politicians have been doing to our country.

Balderdash Mr. Towery
having lived the Reagan years, read biographies, and auto biography, where do you come off with this? Reagan was a man who saw the real danger and acted to do something about it! Ron Paul "if we weren't in their countries they wouldn't attack us"???? Ron Reagan would'nt say one thing and do another. Ron Paul, "I want less spending, but I'll sure take all those earmarks for my district"!

Wayfinder...
I have a response to a couple of your posts over at my blog. Here is the link, in case it does not show up in this posting.
http://nucengr.townhall.com/g/4cb7ef96-9884-44e0-a02c-1b6f0 36049f6

Thanks for checking it out.

Sincerely,
Nuc_Engr

They Know not What They Do.
One of the greatest principles of the Constitution of the United States is that we are free to express our opinions and others are free to refute them. Conversely, only a forum like TH gives those with little real understanding of said Constitution the opportunity to expose themselves as being politically ignorant as well.

Ron Paul is the only man or woman vying to ascend to the office of President of the United States with a true understanding of our Constitution and a true desire to emulate the sound principles which it contains. To consider any of the other so-called candidates is merely a "fools errand."


Wayfinder...
I have posted a reply to a couple of your comments on my blog (since the reply was too long for this forum). Thanks.

Sincerely,
Nuc_Engr

Actaully, there are two major issues

that Towery does not address...

1. Reagan did not attempt to dismantle our defense system... such as the CIA, etc., and stripping our military to the bone leaving us vulnerable to any and all who would do us harm.

2. 9-11 was the FIRST time the USA had been attacked within it's own borders.. (Hawaii didn't become a state until Congress passed the Admission's Act on March 18th, 1959.)

Comparing Pres. Reagan with ronpaul is like comparing apples and pickup trucks... No comparison!


**Now we can wait for the paulists to stop by and call me a ronpaul hater and never address the issues. That should be fun!**


Contrary
to what the Lincoln mythologists claim, Lincoln was less interested in slavery than he was keeping the South in the Union. The South was a good cash cow in providing revenue to the Federal govt via the tariff.

Lincoln's first inagural address.

http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres31.html

The other 13th amendment.

http://www.w3f.com/patriots/13/13th-13.html

[Scroll down]

Anyway, who really gives a damn about this? The only reason the neocons are making a big deal over Lincoln is to distract folks from what really in important-- a Federal Reserve that wants to inflate the money supply and bombing Iran, for example.

Anne
"**Now we can wait for the paulists to stop by and call me a ronpaul hater and never address the issues. That should be fun!"

I'll just call you abysmally ignorant, but for you it must be sheer bliss.

Anne
Holy Smoke. I had no idea you are so powerful. After all time i spent trying to figure out who is trashing our money, opening our borders and generally creating rampant insanity, i learn it is YOU. Congratulations. Did you do all this last night, or have you been at it for some time?

Ron Paul Or Ronald Reagan?
Ron Paul: Real Conservatives Don’t Start Wars, They End Them

HP-Congressman Ron Paul (R-TX) recently gained fame for breaking one-day online donation records, but he’s still considered an underdog by many because of his single-digit polling and arguably radical views on a variety of issues. For one thing, he supports an immediate withdrawal from Iraq, a position that seems more at home with the Democrats these days. So why is he up there, debate after debate, standing out from the likes of Huckabee and Romney and McCain? Why isn’t he trying to fit in if he wants to win the primary? Is he even a Republican?

He told me he is–just not the same kind as the rest of them.

“I think their definitions are different,” he said. “Today, the Party has been taken over by a group called neoconservatives, and I don’t believe they’re really conservative. I think they’re really liberal in the modern sense of the word–they’re big spenders, they believe in entitlements, they believe in military adventurism.”

WATCH VIDEO

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/ron-paul-or-ronald -reagan

Ignorance IS Bliss
The following is a futuristic news broadcast:

The President and Vice President of the United States have decided to come out of the closet. President Clinton and Vice President Giuliani have decided to switch wardrobes.

If you believe this is not a very real possibility in the United States today, your ignorance is showing.

Alert Bhutto killed in Pakistan
__Just hearing this report on Foxnews. Suicide bomber as well as a gun fight. Bhutto shot in neck, arrived at hospital unconcious, then died.

Savage99: "I'm so powerful" :-) LOL


"Congratulations." Well, thank you! Thank you very much! :-)

Actually, i've been working at it for a while... just little by little so no one would notice. And, I did do a pretty good job, if I do say so! LOL

But, one would think that sam and the other paulists, having noticed just how powerful we really are (because everything that happens is MY fault, or someone ELSE is responsible for)....and just how powerful we really are.

So they'd better straighten up and fly right because we apparently have the POWER! LOL






Boutte
Well stated! I think you have nailed the essence of this political movement that disdains politics as usual. (at least since Reagan left office)

Public Polls Conspiracy Theory
From "Sam" above:

"There are more of us who support Ron Paul than any other Republican candidate..."

Huh? Huh? Huh, again? Dude, your candidate is under 10% in all polls. He's behind, and he's going to remain behind. Yard signs show that he has very committed supporters (some of whom need to be committed.) It is not a sign that there is "more of you", whatever that means.

Oh, and implying later that there is a conspiracy to keep the public he's ahead? Classy.

Then you have the temerity to complain when people call you Paultards.

Would Reagan Vote for Ron Paul?
Matt,

I think the answer to that lies in every small town across America. We see the spirit of Ron Reagan putting up signs in yards, hosting local meet-up groups, and a resurgence of conservative values and dialogue in the corner barber shops.

Heck, some small town in Colorado even allowed a nativity scene on public land for the first time since the whacky ACLU went nuts over it back in the early 80's.

We are seeing the essence of Ron Reagan take back the republican party and it is annoying the neocons and the fear-mongerers of the world.

They can run all the trumped up polls they wish but if Dr Paul doesn't get the GOP nomination (much to the chagrin of the neocon propagandist Michael Medved), he'll run under a third party and upset the whole process.

Yes Matt, America is finally wising up to the effects of the madness of nation-building; the insanity of wiping out the middle class in the name of globalization; irrational monetary policy; corporatism; treatorous politicians who spend the public money foolishly, and a foreign policy that is destroying us internally much the same way we defeated the USSR.

America is waking up Matt, glad to see you aboard.

wayward1, USN Ret.

michaelogic-101: Oxymoron!
.


MATT
Mr. Reagan is DEAD,and will therefore not be voting for anyone.Can we please stopping looking for Ronald Reagan.The Celtics stopped looking for Larry Bird.

Would Reagan vote for Ron Paul?
Matt,

I think the answer to that lies in every small town across America. We see the spirit of Ron Reagan putting up signs in yards, hosting local meet-up groups, and a resurgence of conservative values and dialogue in the corner barber shops.

Heck, some small town in Colorado even allowed a nativity scene on public land for the first time since the whacky ACLU went nuts over it back in the early 80's.

We are seeing the essence of Ron Reagan take back the republican party and it is annoying the neocons and the fear-mongerers of the world.

They can run all the trumped up polls they wish but if Dr Paul doesn't get the GOP nomination (much to the chagrin of the neocon propagandist Michael Medved), he'll run under a third party and upset the whole process.

Yes Matt, America is finally wising up to the effects of the madness of nation-building; the insanity of wiping out the middle class in the name of globalization; irrational monetary policy; corporatism; treatorous politicians who spend the public money foolishly, and a foreign policy that is destroying us internally much the same way we defeated the USSR.

America is waking up Matt, glad to see you aboard.

wayward1, USN Ret.

Fear-Mongering
Wayward1;

You write: "We are seeing the essence of Ron Reagan take back the republican party and it is annoying the neocons and the fear-mongerers of the world."

Benazir Butto just got murdered in Pakistan. Was that part of a fear-mongering conspiracy, perhaps?

That Wacky Dr. Paul
These are just a few things I find wacky about Ron Paul:
-He is the Champion of the Constitution and has a consistent, principled voting record
-He knows history and understands the how historical events have an impact on modern day events
-He doesn't accept matching federal funds even thought he is qualified to do so
-He has never taken a government paid junket
-He consistently supports a culture of life, not death
-He returns a portion of his congressional budget to the US Treasury each year
-He doesn't participate in the congressional pension program
-He has never voted to raise taxes or congressional pay
-He has never voted for an unbalanced budget
-He doesn't take money from special interest groups; lobby groups don't darken his door
-He is honest; his message is unwavering
-He believes in FREEDOM

But don't let these truths get in the way of the constant attempts to smear the Good Doctor.

I agree with the author: Reagan would have voted for Ron Paul.

And don't be surprised when whole lot of Americans, starved for this message, vote for Ron Paul on election day.



Ruy Lopez
Paul at 10% in Iowa.

http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/pres08/iarep8-715.html

Anne: Paulist response # 999,999,999
"1. Reagan did not attempt to dismantle our defense system... such as the CIA, etc., and stripping our military to the bone leaving us vulnerable to any and all who would do us harm."

As it stands now, we spend more on military then the next 24 countries combined. We have tens of thousands of nukes that aren't going anywhere. On top of that, Ron wants to secure the border and he wanted to go directly after Al-Quaeda instead of nation-building. He voted FOR Afghanistan (everyone that calls Paul an isolationist never addresses this). We have more sattelites in space then any other country. On top of that, we have 200 million privately owned guns.

If I'm not mistaken, Paul doesn't want to pull our sattelites out of the sky, open our borders, shoot our nukes into space and rescind the 2nd amendment.

"Now we can wait for the paulists to stop by and call me a ronpaul hater and never address the issues. That should be fun!"

Your a Ron Paul hater that never addresses the issues!!!!!! :)

Evidence
Hi Sam;

Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that the mainstream polls are innacurate? Or, for that matter, evidence of innacurate financial information? (But first, explain what you mean by that; what exactly is innacurate.)

By the way, what is it with the threats to leave the GOP? You are not wanted anyway, leave already. Your threats don't scare scarecrows, let alone adult human beings.

Polls
He hit 10% in a poll. In Iowa. Yay!

By the way, "Ruy Lopez" is an opening chess strategy; Ruy Diaz is El Cid. Not that it matters a whole lot.

The difference between Paul and Reagan
The big difference between Ron Paul and Ronald Reagan, is that Ronald Reagan constantly stood up for America, and never once made excuses for America's enemies.

I'm sick of Ron Paul constantly implying that Iran acts the way it does because it was "provoked" by America, or that the "blowback" from past U.S. actions should paralyze us from taking any actions now.

The lefties used to say those exact same things about the Soviet Union during the Cold War, and Reagan refused to buy any of it.

Reagan authorized arming the Afghan rebels to oppose the Soviet intervention.

Reagan ordered a huge military buildup. (When Clinton became President, Ron Paul criticized Clinton for not cutting the defense budget even more.)

Reagan gave a pivotal speech in which he attacked the USSR as an "evil empire."

Reagan demanded that the Soviets open up their society and "tear down" the Berlin Wall.

I'm still waiting to hear Ron Paul say any of those same things about the Islamist threat we face today.

Ron Paul simply refuses to give the "evil empire" speech--because unlike Reagan, he doesn't believe in it. He has said repeatedly that he doesn't think the Islamist bloc is our enemy.

That disqualifies him to be President.

Ron Paul, true patriot and conservative-

Dr. Paul's level of understanding of conservative principles is so profound that few present day professing conservatives have any real idea what he is talking about. Our founding fathers, vastly insightful conservatives to a man, would certainly approve of Dr. Paul's policy positions without exception. After a long lifetime of serious study, Dr. Ron Paul understands in great depth the intricacies of our Constitution and GENUINE free market economics as does no other candidate now or in the past. He has enormous awareness of how a nation whose government is based on constitutional principles and rational economic policy will hopefully someday function.

Very few political conservatives and absolutely no social conservatives today know much of anything about either of these. Their own awful ignorance is precisely why Dr. Paul seems like such a great fool to these poor souls--much the same as a Christian seems like a colossal ignoramus to an atheist.

Those with ears to hear weep as we listen to the agonized screams of the poor little lambs as they are led to slaughter by both the liberal and bogus conservative political functionaries of the denizens of Satan's hell.

There is only one powerful bugle sounding a courageous, manly charge against all this enormous evil as America finally descends slowly into her dreaded death spiral, that of the one man Texas is proud to call its very greatest of all and our country's only rational human hope, Dr. Ron Paul.

Moral Sickness
Hi SteveL;

You write: "I'm sick of Ron Paul constantly implying that Iran acts the way it does because it was "provoked" by America, or that the "blowback" from past U.S. actions should paralyze us from taking any actions now."

That's exactly right on. The Ron Paulistas know nothing about Jihad, and they don't want to know anything about it either. In the apt words of the late Ambassador Kickpatrick, they blame America first. As if men in other nations didn't have their own will.


Response to Jeremayakovka
I went to the link you provided and found it lacking in many ways. The Civil War was not about slavery, never was - it was about taxes - huge ones the North forced on the South's products and the South wanted those stopped. So put me in the crackpot camp because I believe Abe Lincoln was the worst president ever - even exceeding FDR, KBJ,and G W Bush (more for his spending habits than Iraq).

Who would Reagan have voted for - no idea, but I do know this - he would be appalled at what both parties have become and what our culture has become - beholden, enslaved, and hopelessly addicted to the Federal Gov't for everything - education, medical care, retirement,... and birth rates into single parent homes of almost 80% for African American children and almost 30% for whites. The move to dependency on the Fed's started with Lincoln, was fueled by FDR's terrible policies, and has had the pedal to the medal w/ the Bushes and Clintons running the country.

So - at least Ron Paul stands up for a move away from massive Federal gov't - like Reagan positioned, but failed or could not deliver.

Sycophancy
By the way, Colin Cody...

...could anything be more sychophantic than your ode to Ron Paul?

There are differences
and similarities between Reagan and Paul, but the most important difference i see is electibility. Reagan projected an image of competence, optimism, good will, and love of America. Somehow, Paul does not.

angrywhtmale
Anne and Mountain Rose;
Shouldn't you be bedazzling sweatshirts or something? Don't you have a hair appt to get to?

Now that would make me vote for ron paul-NOT!
I do not think it is fair to call RP a cut and runner either, after all you have to have the balls to be somewhere to cut and run! Which strikes me odd because he seems to have em on other topics, go figure.

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!




RuyDiaz
I was impressed with that myself, considering the lies and disinformation campaign directed against him.

When I saw your nym I couldn't resist the pun with it. If you used a variation with "piano" in it I would have addressed you as "Giuoco Piano". ;) Years ago I used to play a lot of chess on a competitive level.

Proper Evidence
Sam;

A link to the methodology of said polls would be nice.

Donations are also a measure of the intensity of the supporters. It is votes that matter in the end.

tweaky, only way for Paul to denounce
The only way for Ron Paul to effectively denounce the looney-toons who support him is to return their money. That's not going to happen.

Ron Paul's nomination would legitimize David Duke, 9/11 truthers and every other fringe conspiracy nutburger group who support his candidacy. That would be sad...

The thing I find most fascinating ....
about Ron Paul is the way he has tapped into an undercore of discontent within the Republican party. Dr. Paul has been virtually ignored by the dinosaur media and dismissed by all the pundits as a kook. Yet he still attracts large crowds when he speaks and gets massive amounts of donation money. Personally, I support him. The event that clinched it for me was during a debate when he was asked a question about abortion. To paraphrase his answer, he said that he was personnaly opposed to abortion, but this was a matter for states to decide, not the federal government. I for one want a whole lot less federal government interference and regulation in my life. Another fact lost on most is the huge following Dr. Paul has amongst college students and the military.

RuyDiaz: Excellent point!

And, if you notice, (and I'm sure you have) most posts by the paulists are indeed sycophantic.

Most are just pontificating, bloviating, dogmatic comments that preclude any and all real discussion.

And heaven help the person who dares disagree...



phileo
"Ron Paul's nomination would legitimize David Duke, 9/11 truthers and every other fringe conspiracy nutburger group who support his candidacy. That would be sad..."

And nominating Giuliani would legitimize Norman Podhoretz and the other warmongers who want to kill people all over the Middle East who haven't done anything to us instead of dealing with al-Qaida like they were supposed to do in the first place.

knight_of_baawa
Well, I have heard some of the neocons complain about leaving Lebanon.

What I find amusing is the way some of these people talk about Reagan reminds me of the cult of personality the Communists were renown for. There is a lot I admired about Reagan, but I have never turned him into a figure of cultic worship. I bet he would be appalled hearing what sycophants like Hannity say about him.

Cold War vs. today
Comparing the current situation with the Cold War Reagan faced is comparing apples to oranges.

In the Cold War our enemy was a nation state which could be bargained with and there was the knowledge that if either side started a war both would be destroyed. In today's world we are fighting an enemy without borders. Our enemy today is not afraid of our nuclear weapons and actually looks forward to death because they think they will be rewarded. These situations are nothing alike.

If Reagan was facing today's terrorist threat I refuse to believe that he would sit back and wait for the next strike. Reagan certainly wouldn't support Ron Paul. As Reagan once said, "Peace is a goal, not a policy." Matt Towery seems to have forgotten that.

paul..??
sec. of treasure...but not president!
too many reasons to list! good guy?! so what..
ask all their friends..they are good guys!
i go for the guy who has been c.e.o.--and possibly fred head as a backup choice ! they all need their heads examined for running for the position of president!but this jazz is coming to a head ...soon! do you think our blog will affect the big picture? is this a national election coming or a GOP only election! geeez...!
somebody mentioned hillary-rudy ticket..sound crazy!? rudy/mccain are for themselves above all. didnt john baby say he really respects hillary?
tired of the whole mess!how does england do it?elvis

Legitmization
"Ron Paul's nomination would legitimize David Duke, 9/11 truthers and every other fringe conspiracy nutburger group who support his candidacy. That would be sad..."

A nomination does not legitimize anyone's views. Just because a group supports a person based on some part of their platform does not mean that the group is then legitimized in the eyes of society. If it were true, you could say the same for *any* person's nomination. If a Religious-Right-endorsed candidate is nominated, would it "legitimize" the role of nutburger Christian groups who want to legislate people into Heaven? That would certainly be sad, but no. If Romney wins the nomination, would it "legitimize" the polygamist Mormons in Utah who would support him? If Hillary is nominated, would it "legitimize" every nutburger socialist and feminazi group that support her candidacy. I would certainly hope not. All candidates will have fringe groups supporting them. That doesn't mean that we should judge them by who is supporting them. We should judge for ourselves the candidate as a whole and be philosophically consistent with ourselves. Identity politics is running rampant in this country and needs to stop; people should *THINK* for themselves, while they're still allowed to.

knight_of_baawa
Anne's knowlege of history comes from listen to great american historians like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. Limbaugh's forte is WW II. He has seen most of the movies made about it including "The Battle of the Bulge", "The Sands of Iwo Jima" and "Saving Private Ryan".

I thought Reagan
was a good president, but as has been mentioned by several posters here, he wasn't the hawk a lot of rightwingers think he was.
He was a good card player. When he had a good hand (as we did economically vis a vis the Soviet Union) he bet big. When he didn't even have a pair (as in Lebanon) he folded.
I think Paul is closer to Reagan than any of the other guys running.

Don't be comforted by the polls
"A link to the methodology of said polls would be nice.

Donations are also a measure of the intensity of the supporters. It is votes that matter in the end."

I work at a statistical research center and can tell you that these polling methods are most definitely not accurate.

They are calling about 600 individuals in each state on home lines and from only 9am - 5pm. This is not a good indicator of the level of Dr. Paul's support. Not to mention that they are only calling those who are expected to vote in the Republican primary- not New Hampshire's independents or new voters.

The support for Dr. Paul is palpable. He has more signs and bumperstickers than anyone by a huge margin. Not to mention money. And if you were to go one of Giuliani's rallies which the Ron Paul supporters outnumber the Giulani supporters, I wonder how many of those supporters will have participated in phone polling. These are the reasons pollsters are saying that you may be a bit surprised by Dr. Paul's primary performance.

And money does measure more than just "intensity of the supporters". When 18 million (including the one day all time record) is raised from a median of $50 donations, you are also counting votes right there. If someone is willing to give money, you better believe they will vote. Let's factor those real votes into the poll numbers and see how we feel about how well these polls are measuring Dr. Paul's support.

Every statistical percentage point of support attributed to Ron Paul in national polling represents converts to his campaign, not the same old "ker-azy" Ron Paul supporters.

On a side note, I find it interesting that Bush supporters trust polls only when they are running low for Dr. Paul.


Bravo, Golfdude...
For saying it like it is. Which is also Paul at least has the *balls* to do (that is, not go along mindlessly with a party line when he disagrees philosophically with that party line).

Mountain Rose and all
Mountain Rose said...
"Needs to retire with dignity and stop embarrasing himself, before they come with the butterfly net and the straight jacket."

Why do you say that, MR? Paul is the true conservative in the race. We all talk about wanting someone who will reduce the size of the federal government, we talk about states' rights, we talk about the attacks on the 2nd amendment and how they need to stop, we talk about how the busybody feds stick their noses where they don't belong in the education of our children, we talk about the loss of purchasing power of our dollar, we talk about how our borders are being overrun by illegal aliens, we talk about wanting someone who will abide by our founders' intent of the Constitution....

Is this just all TALK? Or, do you really want it? Because Ron Paul is what we traditional conservatives have said we wanted for YEARS and he is standing right before us, right here, right now.

Barry Goldwater, Sr. is credited with reviving conservatism and it was on his platform that Ronald Reagan ran. Unfortunately Reagan talked about than he walked. Ron Paul has proven through his voting record during 10 terms in Congress that HE will walk his talk. Maybe this is why Barry Goldwater, Jr. has endorsed him for President of the United States.

Matt Towery's video webcast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFg488AkmaE

LoL
One thing RP and his supporters seem to be really good at is how to alienate potential voters who might be reading here. I for one would like to see some of you live in a large city with no cops and see how you fare. The world is not so different in that sometimes we have to do policing to prevent the hitlers and imanutjobs from burning the whole thing down. RP could not shine Ronnies shoes in this reguard! Get over your selfs!

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html
Free Ramos and Compean
If we cant have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just wont matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINOs!!!

typo
Unfortunately, Reagan talked "better" than he walked.

Doc
No police? How did you make that leap?

Dr. Paul Is the Wrong Medicine
It's useful to remind ourselves that Ron Paul was a baby doctor and Ron Reagan was a salesman on the big screen for decades before he even started his political career. As a staunch Reagan supporter going all the way back to the Goldwater campaign, I have to say quite frankly, "Ron Paul is no Ronald Reagan." In a national political campaign image is everything and Ron Paul comes across as an angry nutjob. The Great Communicator could have sold sand to an Arab and his charisma was such that I made a point to watch every televised speech I could. When I see Ron Paul it makes me think a character jumped out of the Wizard of OZ movie. I'm sure I agree with many of the issues that Ron Paul expounds: the message is good but the messenger is like chalk on a blackboard. A third party run would guarantee a Clinton win and Ron Paul would still be a little man screeching in the House.

Ryan01, on legitimizing the illegitimate
Ryan01 writes: "phileo... nominating Guiliani would legitimize Norman Podhoretz and the other warmongers who want to kill people all over the Middle East..."

Podhoretz is already legitimate as a reasonable thinker and qualified policy analyst. He doesn't need Rudy's nomination to make him legit.

Ryan01, are you anti-Semitic? Are you a David Duke supporter?

Not that there's anything wrong with that... if your IQ is in the mid-60's or lower.

Funny...
Reading through these comments, the people who support Ron Paul make concise arguments, and the people who do not support him resort to calling him and his supporters names.

Think for yourselves, which group has the stronger arguments?

Ron Paul 2008

Doc
"One thing RP and his supporters seem to be really good at is how to alienate potential voters who might be reading here."

I keep reading this accusation, yet on this thread alone it is the people who don't like Paul who are engaged in the majority of the insults and personal attacks against Paul and his supporters. Calling people "paultards" (coined by Wonkette), "crazy" and other crap isn't doing anything to help their own candidates. It only shows that they can't make an intelligent counter argument.

foreign policy
Reading the comments section I am again reminded of the reactionary response to common sense. Ron Paul never argued that we deserved 911. He simply stated the the obvious, that if you want to understand the effect of past foreign policy, look to todays foreign relations.

Our CIA overthrew a popular government in Iran and replaced it with the dictator of choice, trained his secret police who went on to terrorize their own people for years and we wonder why Iran is hostile to us? Why isn't it obvious?

We must admit to past mistakes, realize what has not worked and be prepared for a new course. Since almost none of today's elected officials are as wise as our founders, why not follow their advice?

Follow this link to listen to the foreign policy George Bush was elected on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFg488AkmaE

RP for President.

David



pianogirl: Whaaaat???

There hasn't been one "concise argument" made by any paulist on this thread or any.... Which is pretty much why most of us don't even bother to read posts by the more notorious and infamous paulists.

In fact, most of us just scroll by when we see "sam writes" or "knigh of boohoo writes" or "Ryan01 writes" etc. Wouldn't be surprised if "pianogirl" will be among those whose posts just get scrolled by as well. :-)

All the paulists EVER do is name call and post SUCH important things as, paul is the only one who can beat hellary, or posts like yours that says NOTHING of worth!






phileo
"Podhoretz is already legitimate as a reasonable thinker and qualified policy analyst. He doesn't need Rudy's nomination to make him legit."

Sure he has. This person that prays that Bush will bomb Iran. This lunatic that calls this "world war IV." Yep, he's a real rational thinker.

"Ryan01, are you anti-Semitic? Are you a David Duke supporter?'

A great line from the Sean Hannity school of debate. Bait and switch.

Sorry, this line of crap doesn't cut it anymore as a way to prevent folks like me from criticizing people like Podman for advocating policies that I think are destructive to this country. Poderetz and the rest of the neocons are fair game when they entered the public arena and by you writing that shows you don't have a leg to stand on.

So, "both President Bushes"
.... have elected to have their pictures taken with this fellow, eh?

Not both presidents, Bush?

Semi literate and supports the lunatic-fringe dwelling Congresscritter Paul?

Yep.

Fits that ludicrous liberaltarian longshot's mould.

That much is Black and White.


Dang, Anne...
Thanks for providing a little more fodder for my assessment.

Hey Doc: How's Dad doing???

Can hardly wait for him to get better so I can tell him you called him an "ol Buzzard!" LOL

Please be sure to tell him that we were all praying for him.... :-)











Jerseyvet
You're right, he is not an actor. Nor is he an ivy league lawyer, trained in the art of BS. All he has on his side are facts. Are facts enough? I don't know, I guess we shall see.

I'll tell you one thing though, I will be more than ashamed of my fellow Republicans if they turn away from a man who has the courage to tell us the truth and who has the voting record that proves that he votes to uphold the Constitution each and every time, just because you don't like how his hair is combed, or the tenor of his voice. Nor, will you have anyone to blame but yourselves if you vote for yet another one-worlder who will continue down the same path of Bill Clinton and George Bush.

-----------
Highly recommended. Judge Andrew Napolitano speaking on the Constitution.
http://reason.tv/video/show/178.html

Anne
hey tnx for asking, They have already moved him to the rehab hospital yesterday and he is doing real well. Once they took his last leg, I fully expected him not to get over it, but true to his nature, he was fighting back the next day. I reckon God made that generation that tough, they have been through a lot, but as YLG likes to say, God does not give you more than you can handle!

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

Ryan01
Agree with you on Podhoretz.

Finally...
...another truth teller....in the media no less. well, except for the surprise result nomination.

Doc: I believe YLG is right...

God does not give us more to handle than we're capable of...

So glad to hear Dad is doing well. You're right, a wonderful Christmas gift! The best!!!!

I'm still tellin' on ya though! LOL :-)


Lord Have Mercy!

This has got to gall the neo-con megalomaniacs around here who don't want the newer republicans to realize that the Rockefeller Kingmakers are still trying to steal the grassroots' right to choose the presidential candidate of their choice.

The Rockefeller Kingmakers, now indistinguishable from the neo-cons, want the presidential choice settled long before the convention, like it was for Bush.

Mr. Towery, you have our prayers.

An honest RP piece - Refreshing
and Kudos to you Matt!

Anne
LoL You might get me a buttkicking! I was standing by his bed the morning after his surgery, and I took hold of the tube that dispensed his morphine and threatened to pinch it off and he said, have you ever had your as* kicked by a man with no legs? I says no, and he says first time for everything! LoL

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

Doc: There is NO question that Dad

is an extraordinary man! You are a very fortunate person to have a father like that.

But, you're still likely to get that butt kicking! LOL

You'd best be sure that he doesn't have access to the ineternet and TH.... :-)








Paul's Naive Foreign Policy
Reagan was an American Hero and it was my honor to twice vote for him to be the president. But for the dangers the nation faces I might be willing to give Ron Paul a chance. For me the deal breaker is his foreign policy statements. Non-interventionism is good policy but not if blindly followed in an age of terror. Ron Paul, if one is to believe his plain language, would wait until we were attacked to retaliate. With unstable nations having nuclear devices and rogue ones seeking them this is not a credible policy. The Bush Doctrine, which has been disavowed by Paul, is the better doctrine.
Before the neo-con labels fly read on. I was told that if I voted for Goldwater we would go to war. They were right; I voted for Goldwater and we went to war. War is the policy of last resort, I get it. Nevertheless the most sacred duty of the president is to protect the country and in an age in which the potential first shot is nuclear it just seems to me to be naive policy to wait for it happen before taking action.
The Gipper recognized that above all war is about economics. So he fought the Cold War accordingly and used the Arms Race to force the Soviets into bankruptcy. If we had the Gipper today he would recognize that terrorists cause economic disruption and do so with less money than we spend in defense. The Gipper would defend us with a policy of starving terror for money (as would Paul), but also with a first strike policy (as Paul says is wrong). That's naive of Paul and the deal breaker for me.

Doc
Sorry to read this about your father. I wish him all the very best.

Pulling out Reagan's ghost
Comparing Ron Paul to Ronald Reagan? LOL!

Why does the Sunbelt attract so many arch conservative Christian fundamentalist Pharisees and Constitutional literalists? Haven't they also read Jesus' parable about the Sheeps and Goats?

Just like Scriptural fundamentalists and Constitutional literalists, "If you can't find what you're looking for in the Bible or Constitution, it's not there, you don't need it, and I'll be burned rather than to pay for it" attitude all over again. Northern Yankees were famous for demonstrating such peculiar Christian attitudes towards immigrants, especially the Irish and other Catholics they loathed. For this, they were justly lampooned through the character of Amos Force in Edwin O'Connor's famous political novel, "The Lastl Hurrah." No matter what side of the Mason Dixon Line you step on, you can always find an Amos, but it seems as if he's taken residence in states like Florida, South Carolina and Texas. The Cheapies. (Up here he would've fled to NH.)

What galled me most was Towery's comment about Grenada being "More a military exercise than a true battle." Try telling that to family members of our slain who died in that battle.

I have no doubts whatsoever Towery never served a day in uniform, much less combat. No self-respecting veteran would be so dumb as to make such a careless comment. But a lot of chickenhawks with press "credentials" and conservative ties seem pretty shameless about doing so these days; even if it cost somebody his or her life to enable these pundits the rights to make such fools out of themselves.

As for flagging this post as "offensive." I'll save some people the trouble. I want only those who'd be offended by my sentiments on this matter to be offended. The more intelligent readers know who I'm referring to and won't take offense.



Two Big Problems
1: "Clever" nicknames: We get it, okay. You don't agree with someone's position and lo and behold their name can also be cleverly altered into something funny. What a great wit you have. "Paultard" and "Hellary" and "King George" and "neocons" are all useless to any kind of real philosophical discussion. Resorting to shallow name calling and insults does not lend credence to your argument. And frankly, its obnoxious.

2: Circumstantial ad Hominem: This is a logical fallacy that occurs frequently in arguments against Dr. Paul. Fallacy means that you are using invalid logic. In other words, your argument just does not work. The argument goes like this:

1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B makes an attack on Person A's circumstances.
3. Therefore X is false.

Whether or not Dr. Paul recieved donations from some skinhead in a basement does nothing to refute his platform. You are distracting from what he is saying by appealing to circumstances that are not important to the discussion at hand. In other words: you are missing the point.

If Ron Paul recieved a random donation from some skinhead online who has no connection to Dr. Paul's campaign, it would in no way justify an argument for a connection between Ron Paul's platform and the beliefs of the skinhead in a basement. By this invalid logic, if I gave money to Dr. Paul I must simply be a skinhead too. Not to mention Barry Goldwater Jr.

The only reason you have knowledge of Ron Paul supporters who turn out to be idiots is his unique willingness to display his donations in real time. A real time display of donors would be Mitt Romney, Giuliani, or McCain's worst nightmare. I think the millions in Chinese and lobbyist donations would make for much bigger headlines than the ones Ron Paul recieved from this "scandal".

What a herd of FOOLS!!

Having just scanned a few of the stupid and ridiculous comments it's clear that they are NOT the brightest bulbs on the porch, or sharpest knives in the drawer....

They also forgot that on May 13, 1985, Philadelphia police dropped a bomb onto the headquarters of the MOVE organization in a residential Black neighborhood, starting a fire. ..." Oooooooh!

It's clear the fools knew what I meant, and what my point was. And they wonder why they're on the "just scroll by list."







Whooooh, mule!
The dictionary defines sycophancy as "servile flattery."

I am not and never have been a flatterer of any kind or anyone including Dr. Paul. And I in no way seek his favor for personal gain or any other reason--as though he wastes his time reading anything on TH. I write in sincere praise of Ron Paul with pure motive, simply because he is a truly great fellow Texan whose superb abilities and insights qualify him to be publicly recognized for the enormous benefit he has been in the past to our republic and now particularly in view of his having generously offered himself to be our future president. But I'm sure you already knew that, didn't you, RuyDiaz? You were just looking for a juvenile excuse to be mindlessly critical because you hate Dr. Paul, his supporters and anything positive written about him. You are a typical liberal in desperate need of a brain transplant that Ron Paul, MD, would be most willing to arrange quickly for you at the nearest veterinary hospital.

Ryan01
Tnx!

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html
Free Ramos and Compean
If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just won’t matter!
http://fred08.com/
http://vets4fred.net/
NO MORE HOLDING OUR NOSE AND PULLING THAT LEVER!!
VOTE FOR A REAL REPUBLICAN!! NO MORE RINO’s!!!

Anne
You have made the same kinds of attacks on Ron Paul supporters as the ones coming toward you today. I am not condoning them in anyway -- I find such attacks to be completely pointless and damaging to intelligent debate -- but you cannot claim the moral high ground. We all have seen your various posts across TownHall, and you attitude is nearly always divisive and derogatory, especially toward those who support Ron Paul.

This was a good article that made a lot of good points regarding Ron Paul. Most of the other candidates are far too liberal (read: pro big government). Only Ron Paul, Fred Thompson, and Duncan Hunter can take any realistic claim to be conservative. If we Republicans are not to vote for a conservative, then what really is the difference between a liberal Republican and a Democrat?

Sick of "experts".
Matt writes:
Certainly my friends who still consider themselves respected experts and D.C. insiders would never dare write what follows. They would be cast off into the outer circles of the political establishment.

Personally, I could care less. So here goes.
------


Republican are every bit as disgusting as democrats, and neither party respects a thing about America today.

If I want an expert opinion I will ask myself what I think about it and just like you Matt.
I do not give a flying flip what either party has to say.

Both parties are so full of _____ and lies electing any old ditch digger would be better than the arrogant/worthless politicians of today.

This man now in office is selling out the country to globalists, right now,today, and the d's and r's are arguing about personality defects in which globalist they want in next.

Makes me pine for a revolution

Hunter/Paul/Keyes/Thompson
Any of these men are head and shoulders above all the rest of the rat pack


My story part 1
I was born during Watergate. My parents had supported Nixon, and were NOT pleased about being lied to by their President. I was a kid during the Reagan administration, and he was well-loved in our home. We were glad to see Bush take over in '88. Then HE lied to us. This left an impression on me.

I first voted for President in '92. I knew I wasn't going to reward a liar, but I also knew I couldn't vote for Clinton. So, being young, naive, and left with no other option, I chose Perot and his pie charts. My feeling was that if Perot cost the GOP the election, THAT'S GOOD. You don't reward bad behavior from your elected officials, you PUNISH it, by throwing the bums out.

By '96 I'd figured out that Perot was a joke, and besides, he'd already served his purpose. I voted for Dole, as the best chance to beat Clinton, but my heart wasn't in it. Four years of the Clintons had killed my spirit.

In 2000, I really liked the breath of fresh air that Bush was selling. At least that's how I saw it. He chided the bumbling Clinton/Gore foreign policy and promised change. And boy, did we need some of that. I was glad to support him, and my heart was in it this time.

Then along comes 9/11, and it's like he forgot everything he'd said. Before you knew it, we were invading Iraq. The justification was clearly trumped up. Any fool could see that, yet the whole Republican party started chugging the Iraq Koolaid by the gallon. Well I was having none of it. I knew a scam when I saw it, and as far as I was concerned it was Nixon and Bush's father all over again. The 9/11 attacks were horrific. But don't tell me they justify betrayal of your own people, because NOTHING does. Reagan wouldn't have betrayed his word. Not in a million years. He would have found another way to deal with the crisis.

Continued...

My story part 2
So, by 2004 I was on the anti-Bush bandwagon. PUNISH HIM, I thought. But this time I had a serious problem. There was basically nobody to vote for. So I didn't. Some of the GOP traditionalists chose to show their anger at Bush but voting for Kerry, but I couldn't go that far. And Nader wasn't an option for me either. I was too disgusted to even bother looking at any of the minor candidates, and it wouldn't have been worth it anyway.

And here we are, 2008. And here I am, sizing up my options. I know for sure I don't want a continuation of Bush. He's chased Kristol down the neocon rabbit hole. The GOP is scarred for life thanks to this administration. I want the old party back, the one I grew up with. Giuliani? Romney? Huckabee? All bright pink on the inside. I'd sooner vote for Kucinich and his UFO. If those were my options, I'd stay home again.

That leaves two realistic choices: Thompson and Paul. I like them both on the economy. I give Paul the edge there, because I don't think any candidate has actually said "small government" and meant it as much as he does. They're both good on gun control. They're both men of faith but they don't wear it on their sleeve like Huckabee. I like that, because it doesn't cheapen what religion is supposed to be about. I've looked at the concerns many Bush-conservatives raise about Paul, and all I can find is a different approach. Paul wants to shrink federal involvement in favor of state control for most of the supposed problem issues, like abortion and drugs. I just don't see the problem. He's only talking like a Republican should, about shrinking government. I think most people either haven't looked close enough to understand this, or they're determined to not support Paul. The only reason for that would have to be the war, in which case those people can only be described as war hawks, and that's not the GOP I know. That's Kristol's neoconservatism.

Continued...

My story part 2
So, by 2004 I was on the anti-Bush bandwagon. PUNISH HIM, I thought. But this time I had a serious problem. There was basically nobody to vote for. So I didn't. Some of the GOP traditionalists chose to show their anger at Bush but voting for Kerry, but I couldn't go that far. And Nader wasn't an option for me either. I was too disgusted to even bother looking at any of the minor candidates, and it wouldn't have been worth it anyway.

And here we are, 2008. And here I am, sizing up my options. I know for sure I don't want a continuation of Bush. He's chased Kristol down the neocon rabbit hole. The GOP is scarred for life thanks to this administration. I want the old party back, the one I grew up with. Giuliani? Romney? Huckabee? All bright pink on the inside. I'd sooner vote for Kucinich and his UFO. If those were my options, I'd stay home again.

That leaves two realistic choices: Thompson and Paul. I like them both on the economy. I give Paul the edge there, because I don't think any candidate has actually said "small government" and meant it as much as he does. They're both good on gun control. They're both men of faith but they don't wear it on their sleeve like Huckabee. I like that, because it doesn't cheapen what religion is supposed to be about. I've looked at the concerns many Bush-conservatives raise about Paul, and all I can find is a different approach. Paul wants to shrink federal involvement in favor of state control for most of the supposed problem issues, like abortion and drugs. I just don't see the problem. He's only talking like a Republican should, about shrinking government. I think most people either haven't looked close enough to understand this, or they're determined to not support Paul. The only reason for that would have to be the war, in which case those people can only be described as war hawks, and that's not the GOP I know. That's Kristol's neoconservatism.

Continued...

My story part 3 -sorry for double part 2
So that's the only real difference between Paul and Thompson, or at least the most consequential one. And that brings me back to the reason I skipped '04. We're in Iraq because Bush was not good for his word. And as I've described, I have a deep rooted hatred of dishonesty from my elected leaders. I Like Thompson, but on the issue that left a black mark on my party, and that made me lose faith in my President, Thompson represents more of the same. The Bush-conservatives like this about him. I do not. It is for this reason, more than anything, that I'm supporting Paul. All his right thinking on the economy is just icing on the cake.

I am NOT going to reward bad Republicans with power. They are going to conform to the REAL GOP platform, or they can lose. I don't care, this country has gone so far down the path of big government that 4 years of Clinton or Obama would just be more of the status quo. I want CHANGE. I want the TRADITIONAL Republican party back. If they have to lose everything to realize how far they have fallen, then so be it. Let them fight their way to the top again, stopping at every Republican voter along the way to beg forgiveness and promise to behave. I don't conform to the evolving GOP, the GOP conforms to me. I've stayed where my roots are, while they've drifted to the center and picked up bad habits from their big government opponents. I'll be waiting, if they choose to come home. Meanwhile, I'll be voting for the man who best represents the GOP of my roots.

Globalists
talent scout writes:
This man now in office is selling out the country to globalists, right now,today, and the d's and r's are arguing about personality defects in which globalist they want in next.

*****

What you said! Oh wait! Globalists!?! Isn't that the part where we Paul-tards get to be called whack-jobs and nut cases for believing in yet another conspiracy?? ;)

Signed,

A Freedom Loving American who wants our beloved Country back in the hands of We the People.

Charles...
In defense of Anne, very few Americans are aware of Japan's use of baloons to bomb the continental US. Technically, you are correct, in that it did happen, but then so did the 93 WTC bombing, which was also an attack on this nation, and one far more destructive than the japanese use of baloons. I am not refuting your facts; they are true. I am just asking that you cut Anne a little slack on this one.

Paul's futility workout.
Whatever you think of Ron Paul, it should be noted that he will go down in history with Pat Buchanan, Pat Robertson, and even Mr. Forbes, as another guy who had a "huge following" but got totally demolished in the primaries.

This is not an attack on his ideas or his background, just a statement of fact. Having money and a dedicated enclave of supporters is nice, but we have discovered in the past, that ample amounts of both, will not make one the president by default.In the end, Paul will need to get more votes, and frankly he does not have a chance of doing that.

There's no way...
...Reagan would ever bring the Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force home as Ron Paul counsels us to do.

He didn't when he was president. He knew that our military presence around the world was essential to preserving what stability and peace existed in our dangerous, anarchic world.

No, Reagan would not support Ron Paul. I don't know who his candidate of choice would be, but Paul is not it.

Bob
"This is not an attack on his ideas or his background, just a statement of fact."

This isn't a fact. This is an opinion that may very well be the case. On the other hand it could play out differently. The primaries will tell that story.

bob
Unlike Pat Buchanan, Robertson, or Forbes, Ron Paul has shown consistent support throughout the United States. He has over 100,000 volunteers organized on the Internet from every state in the Union. His signs are on front lawns all around the country. He has won over half of the straw polls conducted by the Republican party, and his donations exceed all other candidates for the fourth quarter -- $18 million. Everywhere he speaks, he garners crowds of hundreds, even thousands, of people.

The ONLY metric that is low right now are the "scientific" national polls. Every other metric, in every other election promoted and extolled by the media, shows that Ron Paul is the clear winner. This is not to say that Ron Paul is a sure bet -- there is SOME truth to the polls -- but it does mean that no one can accurately predict how much support he really has until election day.

There are several shortcomings in the methodology of the polls that can also account for his low turnout.

1) Polls do not include cell phones. Ron Paul's support is disproportionately high among people who do not have landlines (like me).

2) Polls typically only include people who have voted in previous primaries. Many of Ron Paul's supporters have either never voted before or they have skipped out in recent years because of the poor choices given.

3) Some of the polls have not even mentioned Ron Paul's name as an option as has been documented in various places on the Internet.

Why is it that we are trusting so completely on the polls this election when we have been so hesitant to place too much trust on them in the past?

ColinCody...
Wow. As expected, your post was filled with arrogance and contempt. Paul supporter's seem to take it personally when people reject their chosen diety. Those who do not bow at the feet of Ron Paul are naturally stupid sheep who know nothing about the constitution. In other words, "Vote for Paul, or you are not a conservative"

What specious nonsense. The reason I will not vote for Paul is quite easy to explain: his foriegn policy stance is naive in the extreme, in much the same way Buchanan's was. I'm sorry Colin, but pulling all of our troops back to the US and compartmentalizing ourselves in the modern world will not make us safer. We will still need to deal with other nations. So what happens when we continue to do business in the Mid-east? I suppose any businesses that get bombed or have CEOs murdered will have it coming, since according to Mr. Paul, it is our presense in these nations that has angered them. In other words, "We brought 9-11 on ourselves."
Sorry my friend, but I find that a reprehensible position and thus Paul will not get my vote. And all your childish stomping and demonization will do nothing to change that. You like the guy, fine. But stop trying to shame the rest of us into voting for him by insulting our intelligence.

Ignorant people
"If Reagan was facing today's terrorist threat"

Are you suggesting that terrorism was not a threat in the 1980's? Most people would disagree with you, as one of the lamest arguments (however true on its face) talks about the barbary pirates and the formation of the navy (although, mind you this had to do with PIRATES, not terrorism - but I digress.)

We didn't have hostages in Iran in '79? What exactly was Lebanon or Libya?

Just proof that people pick their information for whatever purpose is convenient for them during an argument.

This whole line of questioning is just stupid. Reagan DID endorse Ron Paul. So ANY one that says Reagan would not vote for Ron Paul is clearly an idiot who knew nothing about Reagan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyXW1hb-JQg

He would, however, be ashamed of the current crop of Republicans, just as he was the prior crop of Republicans that called him kooky, insane, and did everything in their power to not only block his nomination, but to demand a vice-president that Reagan hated and filled his cabinet with neocons. No wonder Reagan couldn't get done what he wanted to get done. But, yeah, you people followed Reagan reeeeeaaaaal closely and weren't aware of this. Some of us were actually there. And Ron Paul's campaign is like Reagan deja vu. We won then, and we will win now. This time, we won't allow the backroom deals that neutered Reagan.

Neocons are coming!/The sky is falling!
I don't know what a neocon is and I don't think anybody else does. It appears to simply be a dismissive, pejorative label attached to anyone on the right with whom you disagree.

Most often, it appears to be code for "influential Jew". I always assume that people who use the term "neocon" as an ad hominem attack, are anti-Semitic and even anti-Christian.

Am I wrong?

WAKE UP!
Earth to GOP! We want Ron Paul!

The days of the Neo-con is over.

America wants its freedom and liberties back. We want our boys home. We want a stable economy. We don't want endless war and we don't want to be like the folks who hate us. We don't want to kill the world, we don't want to spread our values at the end of gun barrel. We must lead by example.

We are taking our party back.

Khomar
I am not a gambling man, but I am willing to lay money down that Roon Paul will not win the GOP nomination. How about it? 100 dollars to your favorite charity?

Ron Paul has raised a significant chunk of money lately. There is no denying that. He also has a lot of grass roots support. That too is a fact. But the only time I hear about him being significantly ahead of the other GOP choices, is when I hear it from Paul supporters.

On a personal note, It is my opinion that the guy would be a foriegn policy nightmare. But again, that is just my opinion.

TheLeftIsEvil
The problem is that we simply cannot afford our current government expenditures. By pulling back our troops, we could save hundreds of billions of dollars -- dollars that we desperately need to get out of debt. If you don't want to end our "empire" around the world, then what would you suggest that we cut: Medicare? Welfare? While I personally wouldn't be opposed, it would have a huge effect on our citizens who have come to rely on such government programs. As Ron Paul has said, he doesn't want to kick anyone out in the street.

The problem is that we are trying to fight Islamic extremists with a huge money on our back. We owe China billions of dollars, and our economy relies upon them heavily. (Ever try to buy something NOT made in China?) Because of this, our actions in the world are severely limited. Whether or not you would agree with such an action, attacking either Iran or Pakistan would likely get China involved in the conflict. Our national debt is mounting so quickly that we are reaching a point where we will never be able to pay it off. What happens when our creditors start asking for payback?

We MUST get a hold of our financial situation if we are to have ANY ability to fight terrorism. Ron Paul's strategy doesn't eliminate our ability to fight. Rather, it changes tactics to one that we can actually maintain given our current economic condition. Remember, he voted for the action against Afghanistan, so he certainly has not removed military action from the table where it is warranted. Iraq was a dismal failure, and it did nothing to stop international terrorism. In fact, it accomplished quite the opposite while pushing our country more swiftly toward bankruptcy.

Phileo
A Neo-con is an admitted "former" Marxist that joined the Republican party in the 60's when the liberals just weren't socialist enough for them, like the ones behind Giuliani's campaign.

The marxists realized, correctly, that probably the best way to acheive their goals was to take over both parties and use atheism on the liberal side and religion on the republican side.

The fact that both parties are nearly identical except on irrelevent wedge issues that don't even have ANYTHING to do with a Presidency, is entirely by design.


Conservatism Unhinged
A large segment of conservatives are wrapped up in a mass of hysteria about the fancifully titled "War Against Terror" or WOT. They claim, as the foolish neo-conservative Norman Podhoretz does, that the US is engaged in an open-ended World War Four against a collection of backward Muslims. They seem to equate weak Islamic terorists with the power of the Soviet military- 50,000 artillery pieces, 30,000 tanks, 10,000 combat aircraft, 4 million soldiers, 750 naval vessels, 30,000 nuclear weapons. The Soviets were a fearsome enemy; Islamic terror is largely impotent.

money = monkey
We have a big ~monkey~ on our back. Too bad we can't edit our posts. :-)

Bob
I would be willing to take that bet, however the $2300 I donated (not to mention thousands of hours volunteering for him) and his campaign already beats that. Why don't you donate that $100 or donate your time to the loser YOU think is going to get it?

You wanna bet against Ron Paul, that's how you do it. Anything else is completely under-estimating us and trust me, THAT is a losing strategy.

So, again, Ron Paul's supporters have already been putting their money and time where their mouth is. How about you?

Khomar: Sorry! Not even close!!!!

Not on this thread or any other thread....

*****************************************
Anne writes: Thursday, December, 27, 2007 12:52 AM
Doug: Embarrassing is right!

Annne writes: Thursday, December, 27, 2007 8:09 AM
Actaully, there are two major issues
that Towery does not address...
************************************************

Right, those posts really elicited the rude, crude, name calling responses from the paulists!

And, so it goes!!!










I would suggest that you spend your time making your point to kob, Ryan01, and a few others.


Bob
I wholeheartdly agree with your post @12:20. Truer words were never spoken.

Derek Leaberry
"The Soviets were a fearsome enemy; Islamic terror is largely impotent."

You bring up an excellent point. I remember growing up with the fear that the world could literally end tomorrow from a nuclear holocaust. When faced with that level of threat, the thought of one or two dirty bombs going off in the United States does not seem nearly so bad.

I don't want to diminish the very real danger of terrorist attacks, but we really do need to remember to have perspective. Iran poses no serious threat to America. China, especially given our huge debt and reliance upon them, is a much larger threat to our national security. Remember that if you owe someone money, you have enslaved yourself to them.

Citizens
I am glad you put your money where your mouth is. As for giving money to those I support, I have certainly done so, though admittedly not in the amounts you gave.

I should tell you that I do not feel super confident than anyone has the nomination locked up-unlike many Paul supporters who seem to think it's in the bag.

What I do feel confident about is that Paul will not win. You can say it is a hunch if you like, but it is based on the data as I see it. Could Paul pull an upset? It is not completely outside the realm of possibilities, but I find it extremely unlikey.

The people in here
Act like our vote is worth is half while theirs is worth 5. We have ALREADY shown that we WILL show up and vote, come blizzard, flood, or terrorist attack.

But, honestly, we prefer that you keep thinking Ron Paul has no chance. We WANT you to stay home and find comfort in your predictions that your guy is going to win. Registrations and even absentee ballots for the primaries is at almost all-time high in this country this year and the media has taken notice (without pointing out the reasons why.) Why do you think that might be? When normally 12% of the population votes in a primary or caucus...

One of my volunteers realized their address was wrong on their registration and went to the office to get it corrected and found them absolutely packed. Standing in line, he started talking to people (you know, being obnoxious, like you guys like to say) and discovered that most of them were there to register to vote for Paul - including the people behind the counter.

But, please, keep underestimating us. :)

American Pride
I have seen several comments berating Ron Paul for thinking that our actions may have contributed to 9/11.

Why is it so hard to believe that he might be right?

Do we really think that we, unlike every other civilization that has ever existed, are absolutely perfect?

Is it so hard to accept that some of our decisions may have been poorly made?

Can we truly say that we have never made a mistake in the Middle East?

No wonder the rest of the world thinks that we are hypocrites. We are.

sheepdog
Thank you

You know where I was
the last 5 times the pollsters tried to call me (I managed to catch one, one that Ron Paul was not mentioned on and my vote went to 'other'?) I was out campaigning for my guy with 50-100 people. Perhaps THAT is why Paul isn't showing better in the polls?

bob
I have never said that Ron Paul is going to win. It is way too early to say any such thing. However, there are strong indications that he will make a solid showing and has a decent chance at winning the nomination. The media has chosen to ignore all of this and focus entirely upon the national polls thereby distorting the picture. That is all that I am trying to say.

I have given over $200 dollars to the Ron Paul campaign (as much as we can afford right now), so my money has already been committed.

Everyone...
I have noticed, that on occasion, when I make a post, typos will show up, that were not present when I typed the post. Has this happened to anyone else, or is my consperacy gland working overtime?

Seriously, I do not think it is an intentional thing, but a glitch in the Townhall system. I read each post several times before "posting" it.

One of my posts has me saying, "Roon Paul" when I am quite certain I typed it correctly. This isnt a complaint, just an observation. Anyone else notice this?

OnceWarrior

>The new and improved Ron Paul:
>Alan Keyes.
>
>Paul and Keyes agree on much. Dr. Alan Keyes, >Ph.D. gets it right where Dr. Ron Paul, M.D. >comes up short. Interestingly, Reagan would >side with Keyes, not Paul, in those very areas >of disagreement.

OW, did you know that Keyes is a professional candidate? That is how he makes his living. He is a panderer 'par exellence', nothing more.

Wayfinder
"The entire premise for this approach is flawed. You'd have to believe that America is the cause of most, if not all, of the problems of the world, or at least the problems we currently face. "We wouldn't have so many enemies if we weren't involved in so many places." The age-old cry of the ignorant. Even if this premise had any merit at all, non-intervention would not make our enemies come close to even respecting us."

Both libertarians and Evil Leftists are both fundamentally anti-American. They either can't tell the difference between us Americans and our enemies morally, or they don't believe our enemies really exist.

Thanks for your post.

Khomar
I respect your non-confrontation opinion. You express your support for Paul in a civil manner and have never-as I recall-insulted those of us not backing the man as "stupid neocons"

Your attitude is refreshing. Thank you.

bob
"Has this happened to anyone else, or is my consperacy [sic] gland working overtime?"

Probably that darn conspiracy gland, but I seem to have the same thing happen to me from time to time. Maybe we just get too involved in our posts to be able to proofread properly. :-)


2 + 2 = 5 ?
Does anyone remember the protests in Europe when Reagan sent cruise missiles there to intimidate the Soviets? Did Reagan bring our troops home from Korea, Germany, Gitmo, or anywhere? Reagan never advocated closing all our overseas bases, or even suggested anything remotely close to that. Oh, and that Grenada thing wasn't such a departure from Reagan's "non-interventionist" policies because it was such a small, short conflict. That doesn't count. Neither does Reagan's support for the Contras. Didn't Reagan send supplies and military advisors to Afghanistan to help the mujahedeen fight the Soviets? Doesn't Ron Paul blame such "meddling in the internal affairs of other countries" for the "blowback" against the U.S.?

Towery clearly is making an argument of convenience that ignores some obvious facts that contradict his preferred conclusion.

Paul's 9-11 opinion
Ron has suggested that our actions may have "contributed" to the 9-11 attack. What does that mean exactly?

Does a man who's dog repeatedly defecates on the neghbors lawn, "contribute" to his own beating at the hands of the irate neighbor?

Ron suggests that our enemies, had some legitimate gripes. So? One can make the same claim about the dude who blows away someone for cutting him off on the highway. Does that mean the poor guy who was killed, "contributed" to the actions of the guy who shot him? According to Paulian logic-it does.

khomar...
I deny it! My typing skills are perfect!!...yes...I'm kidding.

phileo
"I don't know what a neocon is and I don't think anybody else does. It appears to simply be a dismissive, pejorative label attached to anyone on the right with whom you disagree."

No, it is an accurate discription of a political ideology.

"Most often, it appears to be code for "influential Jew". I always assume that people who use the term "neocon" as an ad hominem attack, are anti-Semitic and even anti-Christian."

"Meggadittos" and "you're a great american", phileo. Spoken like a true talk radio listener for they are the ones who spread this talking point, particularly Limbaugh. You also assume by hollering "antisemitism" that you can use that as a shield to avoid having to defend your position. It won't work anymore.

"Am I wrong?"

Very much so. Here you go, from the god father (not Limbaugh) of this ideology.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/0 00/003/000tzmlw.asp