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Wednesday, June 18, 2008
Matt Purple :: Townhall.com Columnist
Open Border Conservatives Speak Out
by Matt Purple
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Amidst outrage over illegal immigration, some self-identified conservatives who see a bright side to open borders have been speaking up.

“These are economic migrants,” said Jason Riley, a member of the Wall Street Journal editorial board, speaking at the Cato Institute. “We have the jobs. They need the work. Let them come legally.”

Riley is one of several conservatives who dissent from the movement as a whole on the issue of illegal immigration. He argued that there are substantial economic motives for legalizing aliens and referred to border control as “Soviet-style central planning.”

“The case for open borders is pretty straightforward. It’s the case for letting the free market decide who comes into this country,” Riley said.

Conservative author Michael Barone also called for “labor laws to work more in tandem with markets” and claimed that there is historical precedent for the recent influx of Latino immigrants, pointing to the enormous Irish immigrations during the 1850s and the German immigrations of the eighteenth century.

“In fact, we are not dealing with something unprecedented, but something we have faced before,” he said.

Open border conservatives like Riley and Barone tend to identify closely with the libertarian wing of the movement and approach the issue from a small-government perspective. Many of them work at libertarian think-tanks like Cato and the Reason Foundation.

The most pronounced opposition to illegal immigration has come from conservative talk radio and cable news, where hosts like Lou Dobbs and Laura Ingraham frequently rail against illegal immigrants and open border policies.

Such conservatives don’t think very highly of their open borders brethren. In a 2007 online video, popular anti-illegal immigration blogger Michelle Malkin called Riley’s Wall Street Journal editorial board “effete conservative elites”. Many conservatives have also blasted President George W. Bush and Senator John McCain (R-Ariz.) for supporting a bill that would offer illegal immigrants a pathway to citizenship.

Riley said that many of the arguments used for cracking down on illegals are either false or misleading, such as the contention that immigrants take American jobs.

“The typical immigrant is either higher-skilled or lower-skilled than the average American, so they tend to complement the workforce rather than take jobs,” he said.

He also pointed to declining welfare caseloads, poverty, child poverty, and hunger over the past fifteen years as evidence that recent illegal immigration has not harmed the country.

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About The Author
Matt Purple is an editorial intern with Townhall.com and is studying politics at Catholic University.
Who cares about "conservative"
Open borders is WRONG and causes CRIME and HOSPITAL CLOSINGS and on and on and on. So you are saying that because a few WSJ one-worlders who like to identify themselves as "conservative" support open borders and amnesty, the rest of us conservatives are wrong? If you want the conservative label so bad HERE, IT'S YOURS!

I don't fight over labels, I fight over principles. Not complicated. When someone is kicking me in the butt, I'm interested in whether they are liberals or conservatives. Just stop kicking me in the butt!!!

Sure, open 'em
But make sure people cross legally. DUH, DUH, DUH, DUH, DUH . . .

Nonsense
OK, yeah, so the 15 million illegals don't take ANY jobs which Americans would otherwise have.

The ONLY ones who have not taken a job which an American would otherwise be doing are those who have contrived, one way or another, to live off welfare instead of working.

Why, exactly, is it not possible to even discuss sending every one of them home ? Too complicated, they say ? Too expensive ? Too harsh ?

Here's an idea:

A first-class one-way ticket to just about any city in Mexico or Central America (or Europe, Mid-East, Asia, for the minority of illegals from elsewhere), from just about any connecting city in the USA: $ 2,500...

A limo ride to the airport, including complimentary champagne: $ 200...

A new set of luggage for whatever belongings one has accumulated during his visit here: $ 300...

And why not a generous cash bonus to offset any other inconvenience: $ 1,000

Total cost of sending every one of the 15 million illegal immigrants back home in Style!: $ 60
Billion.

Solving this ridiculous self-inflicted problem and creating 10-15 million jobs for otherwise hard-to-employ Americans at the lower end of the skills- ladder: Priceless.

Globalists at WSJ and Cato Mulenders
These two reprobates you discussed in the article are not much better than a dry flatus expelled vigorously from the body. They state that they worry about the MARKET, not the USA - at least as far as a little thing called sovereignty is concerned.

A Conservative? I think they are more in line with the green-eyeshade types with withered arms who only care about their bottom line, not the people who made our country great, so THEY could get rich.




Call
The next time I am a victim of identity theft, I will call these guys. Maybe they can help me, because no one really would last time, except to say that it was an illegal gang from Mexico.

And of course an open border would do wonders for the state of CA. Ho! Ho!

Temporary Duty
As a Floridian, my congressman says we need illegals to harvest the crops. I've responded that if we need them on a temporary basis, why do es he insist that their families be allowed to accompany them? No one in congress had a problem with me leaving my family at home when I went on temporary duty, why are they so concerned about illegals? As usual, money!

It is a security issue, not a market one
The problem everyone ignores is the security issue with open borders. Even when the Europeans were coming here in the 1800's we had some idea who came and when. Right now we do not have any control over our borders and allow drugs, gangs, and terrorists to freely pass over them. This problem is simply about letting people come and be a part of this great nation.

micah with more BS
Micah of CO:

" Right now we do not have any control over our borders and allow drugs, gangs, and terrorists to freely pass over them."

WHO TOLD YOU THAT LIE? -- Our borders are porous, but not out of control. No terrorists jump the fence. They FLY 1st class into our airports, Micah. Only peons from the Mexican interior cross a burning desert LOOKING FOR A JOB! Hundreds of them a month are caught & deported immediately. And most of the poor suckers are harmless!

GANGS may be hispanic; but they aren't all illegal aliens. They're invariably 2nd, 3rd generation Chicanos; CITIZENS of this country. Same in the prison system: legal resident Mexican-Americans. How many white law-breakers are in prison, or mugging people in the cities? Biker bums and drug pushers ? Just as many.

Try some common sense judgment, instead of sh!tty emotions.


Barone et all
Barone is CFR scum.

So it is "Libertarian" to kill the middle class and our national sovereignty?

They are freaking traitors.



“Before such a merger can be consummated, and the US becomes just another province in a New World Order, there must at least be the semblance of parity among the senior partners in the deal. How does one make the nations of the world more nearly equal? The insiders determined that a two-prong approach was needed; use American money and know-how to build up your competitors, while at the same time use every devious strategy you can devise to weaken and impoverish this country. (The plan IS to de-industrialize the US) The goal is not to bankrupt the US...Rather, it is to reduce our productive might, and therefore our standard of living, to the meager subsistence level of the socialized nations of the world.

Notice that the plan is not to bring the standard of living in less developed countries up to our level, but to bring ours down to meet theirs coming up.

You may be assured, however, that the Rockefellers and their allies are not talking about reducing their OWN quality of life. It is your standard of living which must be sacrificed on the altar of the New world Order. Gary Allen


dreadnaught

"Our borders are porous, but not out of control."

Great Satire!


early BD present for dreadnaught

noble illegals
The illegals want to come to our home, as they did in the 1850s. During that time, we welcomed them. We needed them.

Today, we have 300 million people. We need people with specialized technology, skills, and education. We welcome them through legal immigration.

We already have used slaves and those people still have the scars to prove it generations later. We do not want to repeat our shameful mistakes.

A few weeks back, a high school graduate passed with honors and could not enter college because the person is illegal. I'm suppose to forgive and welcome illegals because they did well. Doing well, does not negate the law.

Don't shame me into giving you a break. Make the break for yourself by applying legally to immigration. If this can not be done, work with people to change the laws so it is more relaxed for legal immigration.

We do have 5% unemployment. Yet, I see many young people opting to take welfare and food stamps. If unemployed people no longer try to find employment, they are not counted on the unemployment rolls. And, there is a limit to how long they are covered. These young people would have honor in their lives if they did some hard work.

Believe it or not. Many times Mexicans take over as a worker group. They make it difficult for 'outsiders' to work with them.

I welcome immigrants that make an extra effort to become legal, which makes this a better country for all of us.

By the way, slamming people who oppose you does not an argument make.

WAKE UP!
"The most pronounced opposition to illegal immigration has come from conservative talk radio and cable news." I believe you will find the most pronounced opposition to illegal immigration amoung those of us who see it first hand everyday in our communities. You know, those of us who elected politicians to REPRESENT us. Check out the polls. If the government does not enforce the immigration laws, isn't it discrimination when other laws are enforced against citizens?
So if we stop paying taxes how can they round up all 300 million of us? Same logic...
I give this article zero stars.


Propaganda and Lies
Until two years ago, I lived in Las Vegas, Nevada. While I was there, a large proportion of laborers working on construction crews in Vegas were immigrants, and, a large proportion of those immigrants were illegals making a MINIMUM of $15.00 an hour in non-union jobs. I know, because several of them made no secret of it when I spoke to them while riding the bus to work. They were not afraid of getting caught. I reported my observations to city and federal officials. No response. I knew a construction boss of a major unionized company who was well aware of the situation . . . especially among non-union companies and sub-contractors . . . but he was not personally able to do anything about a sitation which was, and still is, pervasive throughout the entire region. The influential Culinary union in Las Vegas, while I was there, was very politically active on behalf of illegal immigrants, and has long tried to bring them into the Union. I personally have been told by several Culinary union members, and other casino employees, that there is no question that a significant number of union members are illegals. The creation of fake documents for illegal immigrants is, itself, a multi-million dollar industry. Anyone who claims that illegals ONLY take jobs that American citizens don't want simply does not know what they are talking about.
The free market does NOT mean "no regulation at all". Even Adam Smith, in "The Wealth of Nations", said that government has a moral responsibility to protect its own citizens from fraud, illegality and abusive treatment. Neither the Constitution nor the free market are suicide pacts. If we do not control our own borders, we do not control our own country. THAT is not rocket science. There is a very well-organized propaganda movement for "Reconquista" in the American southwest. That is not an exaggeration. Illegal immigration serves that movement's agenda.

How many work for the WSJ?
“These are economic migrants,” said Jason Riley, a member of the Wall Street Journal editorial board, speaking at the Cato Institute. “We have the jobs. They need the work. Let them come legally.”
----

How many you got employed Jason?

Bout 50 percent of your employees?

No?
Why not Jason, whats good for the goose is good for the gander, and any old immigrant could do your job.
Lets start with you giving them your job, ok.

Quit trusting the government...
...to provide you with your numbers.

It isn't fifteen million illegals, it is thirty to forty million. And they will push the population of this country to nearly half a billion within forty years. All done to keep "Big Business" happy.

We must have growth has always been their mantra.

We will grow until water, food and energy shortages begin to starve millions. But there won't be anybody turning back the clock.

Illegals
Mr. Purple needs to learn a little history before he starts writing:

USA 2008 is not the same USA as 1908.
Now we have free health care, no matter what we are told.
Now 50% of Americans pay no income tax, vs. 50 yrs. ago.
Now we are educating all illegals, not just legal immirgrants.
Now we have anchor babys.
Now we have welfare.
All the above and so much more impacts the true cost of illegals.
Here in NH, on the only local TV channel, 80% of the crime reports are caused by I would say those with Latino names. This is a huge change in just 10 years.

Why does TownHall have Mr. Purple's bs???

Supply and demand...
“The case for open borders is pretty straight forward. It’s the case for letting the free market decide who comes into this country,” Riley said.

I love free enterprise...

However, occationally people like this have to be given the back of our hand...

You want slave labor wages. You want the US to have a process to make it legal for everybody who wants to come, to flood our job market so that simple supply and demand will drive down the wages below $1.00 per hour or even $1.00 per day. Of course "the market will decide who comes into this country." a**h*** When the wages are that low for everybody in the US nobody will want to come. And all of us will be forced to accept those slave labor wages for the rest of our lives...

If you care so much about giving them a job, then go become a missionary for capitalism and start businesses in Mexico so they don't have to leave their families...

Attractive Welfare State

Given our unsustainable entitlements and the attractive benfits of coming to America, I'd say the definition of the American dream has changed. As long as our society rewards something for nothing, we will attract the wrong kind of immigrant.

Open boards is fine if you can't function as an illegal, that their is truely a competative environment and opportunity to make the American dream come through. Currently our debts and obligations, falling revenue, high taxes and paralysing regulation make being a parasite - giving less than you get far more attractive.

No more - we must make the "prize" worth the hard work, ingenuity and persistance necessary to succeed.

Matching Capital With Labor
The US has had unprecedented influx of capital over the past 2+ decades. Adding labor to that capital increases the productivity of said capital, and it also increases the productivity of the labor. In the end we get more stuff.

Isn't that what it's all about? We produce more houses, more srawberries, more diapers for people to enjoy (maybe people won't enjoy the diapers so much but it increases quality of life nonetheless). Permitting more people to enter the country legally to work only makes sense.

Will Obama or McCain deal with this

Rasmussen: 32% “angry” about illegal immigration, 63% want border secured first
Will Obama or McCain deal with this issue?

HOTAIR-By a 63% to 28% margin, voters continue to believe it is more important to gain control of the border than to resolve the status of those who are already in the country illegally. Democrats are more evenly divided than other voters, but a plurality (49%) agree that controlling the border is the top priority…

read more

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/rasmussen-32-%e2%8 0%9cangry%e2%80%9d-about-illegal-immigration-63-want-border -secured-first

PHHHHT!!
I highly doubt that hospitals are being closed around the country, and schools being overburdened due to illegal aliens who are "higher-skilled...than the average American."

More apologia from the self-destruction club.

Distinct Issues
1. Rule of law. Immigration laws mean something or they do not. Enforce the law or change it.

2. Change the law to allow more LEGAL immigration. Why is this so hard? Why won't Congress increase the number of work visas or immigrant visas? Why is no one even taking about it?

Illegal Aliens close emergency room
" PHHHHT!!
I highly doubt that hospitals are being closed around the country, and schools being overburdened due to illegal aliens who are "higher-skilled...than the average American.""

Tucson Medical Center had to close its level one trauma center because it had to treat too many illegal aliens. You can look it up.

Spoken Like a Proft above all capitalist
We have borders for a reason. The Soviet Union kept people in as well as out, sort of like comparing apples to dump trucks here.
The Irish by the way, my Great-Grandparents included came here through the proper process and worked hard. There was no welfare, food stamps, free hospitalization...all at tax payer cost. They also started the first labor union movement(the Molly Maguires)after years of abuse as well as, primitive, unsafe working conditions at the hands of the greedy owners of the coal mines whom cheated them out of fair pay and owned the very shacks that they lived in. The mexican immigrants are being taken advantage of in similar fashion. The difference is the taxpayer is funding their families via education, social services and hospitalization and loss of jobs so that the greedy companies can make a bigger profit.

Why I don't vote Libertarian
On almost every issue, I am on the side of the Libertarians except for this one. I don’t vote Libertarian because I can’t support their stance on illegal immigration.

The first rule of economics is scarcity of resources. All resources have limits. We simply can’t open our country to every individual who wants to live here. In the early part of our nation’s history, we had seemingly endless land and resources. No one worried about immigration. Now we are seeing the limits of our resources and we have to face facts. If you want a real picture of what uncontrolled borders will do to the U.S., take a look at Europe.

The only upside we have with Mexico is that most of their people are Catholic and therefore have the same type of moral and family values as the U.S. I thank God that we are not dealing with Islamofascist whackos like they are in Europe. Many of the Mexicans coming here are good people, but we can’t possibly absorb them all. That is just reality.

Open borders...
Since our government refuses to stop illegal immigration that harms us and our country, I offer another solution. We have just so much space, just so much air and water to sustain our rapidly growing population. Therefore, we need to stop LEGAL immigration. That will cut down on the sheer number coming across our borders. Of course, that would cause such a worldwide uproar that perhaps the politicians will take note and think about which group is better for this nation. That brings up another thought. Legal immigrants, refugees from political and religious persecution and all the
people who come legally for various reasons must need jobs. Why do we never hear about them needing employment and shouldn't they be happy to "do the jobs Americans won't do?" I just don't see much reason why we have to be inundated with criminals. And, Mexicans never go south for jobs - it's always el norte. They come from a lawless country and are surprised that any nation just might enforce their laws.

Interesting, but thin article
The immigration issue is very complex and the author is correct in that some libertarians and conservatives welcome immigrants through an open-border policy.

I'm disappointed that the article was simply not thorough enough. It barely scratches the surface and doesn't present any of the various options/strategies to address the current status of illegal immigrants already here and possible future immigration policies. It ends up like so many other articles and stories I have read: something to make people angry but nothing to create a serious discussion.

Reopen Ellis Island....
and put it at the southern border.

It was once possible to be sponsored into this country. Upon being sponsored a person would travel to Ellis Island where they would be "checked in." Doing the same at the southern border would allow us to investigate any international criminal affiliations they have, and guarantee their legal status, making them pay the same taxes we pay.

Responses to some other posters:

The closing of hospitals is the result of government intervention in that industry.

The scarcity of resources gets proven wrong time and again. Without government intervention we grow 4 times the food we need and oil costs less then $10 a barrel (read "America's Great Depression" by Murray Rothbard for an explanation on this). Resources are limited in the raw materials sense, but even in that case when a free market finds a better use, such materials are purchased and recycled.

TALENT SCOUT......SHAME ON YOU!
For asking those embarrassing questions to these
OPEN BRAINED people! You know they are such hypocrits !!
My wife is being laid off after 20 years of service to the school system ...one year short of a fairly nice pension ! And the state of Calif. is spending between 8 and 12 billion
dollars a year on illegals education !
Corrupt!
elvis

P.S.
Iam beginning to think that the LIBERTARIANS
are just another bunch of...suckaroos,if open borders is there approach! Barr doesnt come off real strong against open borders ..at least in one interview he didn't !! Even conservative can be too extreme...sometimes! We have the jobs
they need the work... why is enemployment on the rise? Don't give me that bull about...jobs americans will not do !! raise the price of my hamburger...25 cents or whatever!
elvis

I concur w/Murph & then some, except....
.
.....That there is no need to send them ALL back.

If INS will do it's basic job, finding and deporting illegals, even 10% deported will provoke at the very least that 50 to 60% more will quickly find their way home on their own.

We do need to increase "legal" immigration by at least double what it currently is, and we need Braceros for agriculture, but we don't need, want or condone for any reason the entry of illegals.

Mexico calls them "undocumented workers" when they are Mexicans coming to the USA, but calls all illegals coming into Mexico ("through", on the way to the US in most cases) "illegals" and treats them accordingly..

Well, I concur with Mexico; they are illegals whoever they are including the "UNDOCUMENTED" Mexicans who definitely come as illegals to the US.

Get your papers in order or stay home and do what you have always done; like it or lump it.
.
.

Sen. Obama & the North American Union?
Barack Obama YOU HAVE SAID NOTHING about the N A U (SPP.GOV). You MUST know this “business deal” was done by Pres. Bush with his friend, confidant & past Pres. of Mexico, V. Fox. This quietly done "deal" was ORALLY solidified at the Bush ranch. It was never debated by the legislature or told to American citizens. We now see plans for a Super Highway, where thousands of acres of tax payer property will be confiscated through (the Kelo vs New London Court rule) eminent domain process. PRIVATE PROPERTY IS CENTRAL TO THE FREEDOM AMERICANS ENJOY. The N A U- “NAFTA Super Highway” deal negates this basic, American right to own, retain, safeguard and preserve property owned by families, in many cases, for generations. The NAU, surreptitiously done by President Bush in 2005, with NO debate or vetting by the legislature, completely disenfranchised Americans of any knowledge of or say in the matter. It is the equal of a virtual coup in surrendering U.S. sovereignty to a trilateral entity that, in the form of a N A U, could equal the European Union that dictates to the citizens of 27 European states. Senator, you need to tell American your position on preserving U.S. Sovereignty. The N.A.U., if actively denounced in your campaign, could win you the presidency. Your opponents have never talked of this vital issue - - meanwhile the Bush admin. is proceeding as thought this private scheme is a “done deal”. America is watching, listening & waiting to see how you stand on this critical matter. P.S. House Concurrent Resolution 40 states Congressional DISAPPROVAL of the NAFTA Highway & N A U. You are NOT among the 48 COSPONSORS of the bill. Why? Ron Paul introduced H.R. 5191, prohibiting use of federal funds for N A U highway projects. Back this bill & show you support the sovereignty, independence & freedom of America.

Resources DO have limits
How about water? How about water in a period of climate change?

Once amnesty is accepted, our population, spurred by big family Catholics will grow far too fast. Unrestricted growth is dangerous and risky. It can't be reversed.

Legal immigration and work visas are fine. But guarantees of citizenship for forty million will damn your children to life in a third world socialist nation. You can't have a strong economy when half of the people don't pay taxes and a third receive some form of welfare.

In Arizona, where the government is chasing illegals out, rents are dropping and wages are rising.

Liars,traitors and PIMPS
These open borders folks are either making money themselves or being paid off. I have seen numerous people talk about their livlihoods stolen by illegals. The construction industry for one is overwhelmed by these squatters! I worked in the carpet industry for 20 plus years. I watched as not only the mills utilized and brought these people in for cheap labor but also threw the installation jobs to non english speaking , unprofessional hacks. It used to be a thriving profession for hard working Americans but not anymore.I'm sick of the lies and the pandering. They can quit talking about it. The American people realize what is going on and want it stopped pronto. Still our representatives are more interested in giving the country away. Starting with Jorge Bush who is NOT a conservative by any stretch of the imagination.....They make me incensed!!!

Immigrants
If one illegal from Latin Aerica commits a crime, it makes the national news. Why, out of thousands of crimes unreported. Middle-Eastern Muslims attacked the U.S. and declared war on us, and we vent our anger against Mexicans and others south of the border? Why? A recent article about illegal immigration made reference to a group that accounted for the majority of welfare costs, crime, etc, etc. Are we being fed false and misleading information in order to kill any talk of amnesty?

The problem is assimulation and there is a universal religious understanding that we will be judged by the same judgement we practice. I am convinced that this campaign was started and fed by prejudice, and mob rage is the result. Illegal immigration is a problem, but hanging, jailing, or starving decent people looking for work is not the solution.

If there's no border, there's no country
"Open borders" in practice means "no borders".
If you don't have borders, you don't have a country. If there's no country, how can there be a government? Our government behaves as if there's no border: how can it claim the right to tax us?

Response to Dreadnaught
"Who told you that lie?" I would like know what your source of information is. You seem to have a very clear idea who is and is not crossing our border. Maybe you should offer your services to Congress and the White House.

As to my source of information, it comes from my service in the military and the time I spent studying the activities of Al Qaeda (including those on the border). There is plenty of open source information out the Web that discusses this topic.

As for the "peons" you mentioned that are just looking for work, I have no problem with that. Anyone that wants to come here, be a upright citizen and contributes to our economy is welcome by me. Let's just develop legal means for that to happen while keeping those that want to harm our country out. I do not see how that can be bad or controversal.

Did Jason Riley make up this stuff?
,

It's more than jobs
America and being American is about more than a job. Open borders afficianados can't see it about anything but jobs. That's the disconnect. If all you want is a low paid workforce; if all you want is a paycheck to send home where your heart yet still resides; if all you want is reconquista of the S/W U.S. then I don't want you and your ideas for immigration. Go home.

Illegals MUST GO!
As a fair-skinned, light-haired, blue-eyed, speaks English, red-white-and-blue-stars-and-stripes American who was raised in El Paso, Texas, I can tell you illegals do nothing but harm our country. I have personally:

1. been a victim of racism on part of racist hispanics,
2. been denied job opportunities because I do not (and WILL not) speak Spanish,
3. BURIED TWO PEOPLE IN MY LIFE AS A DIRECT RESULT OF ILLEGALS!

That's right-two people in my life are DEAD thanks to illegals. How many more must I bury?

But let's be fair. Not all illegals are hispanic. They do come from all over the world. An interesting article in my local paper this a.m. says the EU is now starting to crack down on their illegal immigration problems. Excellent! Finally, the EU is taking notice. Another interesting article shows an eerie correspondence to the number of our unemployed compared to the number of illegals working in our country. Those numbers are almost equal.

The NAU IS in the works which will destroy our sovereignty and all we have worked so hard to achieve. The Amero is already in production and has shown up in several states along the border. Time to stop this insanity.

NO ILLEGALS!!! PERIOD!!!

These two--
These two open borders sell-outs are typical of those who I believe want to destroy America as fast as they can. If they like these illegals so much, they should by all means provide any needs they may have at their own expense, including a group permanent trip back to their countries of origin.

artful apologia and rationalization
re:
“The typical immigrant is either higher-skilled or lower-skilled than the average American, so they tend to complement the workforce rather than
take jobs,” he said.

**********************************************

What a total crock! Tell this to the many American citizens who have been displaced from many construction jobs... and how fast are jobs at meat processors (Armour, Tyson) refilled by those previously displaced after the govt. makes a rare show raid?

Today's modern service economy has relatively few true jobs where physical labor without language skills are available, which explains why ILLEGAL aliens take jobs in construction, housekeeping, landscaping services and food processing, though they predominate in none among those-- yet.

The indigent ignorant, culturally disparate have almost NO chance of bettering themselves, but they have HIGH odds of devolving into social pathologies including, inexorably, welfare dependence... together with propensities for serious crime, drugs, gangs, illegitimacies, school dropouts, barrio blight... what a swell deal for America!

Middle America must unite NOW to save our country! Just below are the official contact sites for Congress... a few clicks, and you can EASILY send e-mails. Even easier--> NumbersUSA gives you FREE, prepared e-mails to send, and even targets your people in Congress for you. BOOKMARK THESE, and get engaged today! America would be a terrible thing to lose!

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm
http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet

open borders nonsense
Illegal immigrants take jobs from Americans but what is more important, they lower the wage rate for these jobs. When I here the nonsense that Americans will not take the jobs that illegals take: I say that it is only because thoses jobs are not paying a market wage ! Economics 101 for the clown from the WSJ . An please remember when labor costs are high , then employers must think of how to reduce the labor cost by automation .
We need a moratorium on immigration period. This is the only way we can eliminate the underclass which is disproportionately made up of blacks and hispanics.

TWO MORE POINTS
Murph,
1)The immigrants from days of old were legal and HAD to assimilate. Plus, they WANTED to be Americans. The illegals here now not only don't have to assimilate, they think they can take back the Southwest and make it part of Mexico. 2) Illegals ARE taking jobs that Americans WILL do, but employers get away with paying the illegals less and keep the difference for themselves. Therefore, no benefit to consumers.

Lastly, add my name to what the other anti-illegal commenters have said above.

more total crock
re:
"He also pointed to declining welfare caseloads, poverty, child poverty, and hunger over the past fifteen years as evidence that recent illegal immigration has not harmed the country."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Legally, ILLEGALS cannot tap into true Welfare, BUT as soon as a muchacha pushes out an "anchor baby" she can get in the welfare line. ILLEGALS are welfare cases in waiting! Even a liberal demographer admitted ruefully recently that today's ILLEGALS represent, "the mother of all unfunded entitlement programs."

The true Republicans who went to Congress in '94 forced curtailment of Welfare at long last-- even many "welfare queens" suddenly found jobs! What a surprise!

America has spent $11 TRILLION to date on wealth redistribution Great Society programs over the past 40 years, or over $50k per citizen-- it is a wonder that there is ANY poverty left! BUT ILLEGAL aliens will entrench perpetual poverty because poverty and ignorance begets more of the same, and they will soon vote for yet more entitlement government as they keep bringing in the relatives via "chain migration."

why hasn't the scourge been stopped?

The biggest problem is that the money and organization (hence power) is on the other side. The pro-ILLEGAL forces include an unlikely strange bedfellow alliance between groups which want to use them in different ways-- the Conspiracy Of Evil.

Miscreant employers simply want to exploit their labor-- screw the plethora of egregious socio-economic problems they foist upon America. The Chamber lobby is THE most powerful in Washington, and it wants "cheap" labor. Of course, only the ILLEGAL employers benefit-- your lettuce and hotel room are NO cheaper to YOU.

The PC left wants to get them voting and seize permanent control for big entitlement government. The scandal-plagued Catholic church needs replacement bodies for the pews; and they can put more in the collection plates in America than in Mexico. Ethnocentric/racist Hispanic groups like La Raza and LULAC really do want an effective Reconquista, so they hide behind claims of racism and pleas for PC multiculturalism.

Finally, the remote elites including the liberal MSM do not see what all the fuss is about... besides, they LIKE their cheap ILLEGAL maids and yard-workers, and THEIR kids will not go to schools with "those people."

Easily 75% of America is righteously indignant about ILLEGAL aliens (see stats below), but they are not also purchasing the Faustian politicians like the employer lobby.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=20530
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_res earchd74c
http://newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty306.htm

Join the fight NOW to save YOUR country-- see how just below. It is easy and free to come to the aid of your country.

GUESTWORKER PROGRAMS
to Micah, post #41
"Let's just develop legal means for that to happen while keeping those that want to harm our country out. I do not see how that can be bad or controversal. "

there are 8 legal programs for seasonal workers...that is not what the illegals want...they want to come here--then tap into the goodies...why else would the 17 yr old unmarried, pregnant girl who died in the vineyard, come here...just to work??? No, she knows that once she lands her kid, she's "entitled."



Riley is intellectually dishonest

The reason welfare costs have gone down is NOT evidence that illegals aren't contributing to the problem. Those costs are down because welfare reform passed in the 90s put limits on welfare.

Riley also ignores the incalculable cost to taxpayers caused by illegals in the areas of prisons, schools and medical care.

The free market should NEVER decide who does and who does not get into my country; national security trumps everything.

what a pitiful column!
re:
"The most pronounced opposition to illegal immigration has come from conservative talk radio and cable news, where hosts like Lou Dobbs and Laura Ingraham frequently rail against illegal immigrants and open border policies."

*********************************************

Because the MSM (see Keith Olbermann, Chris Matthews, et al) is PC biased (over 80% vote 'Crat-- even for Dutaxus and Mondale)), it tries to blow off the angst over ILLEGAL aliens, but > 70% of Americans are righteously indignant about it. Talk radio (and Lou Dobbs, Joe Scarborough, and Glenn Beck) is doing a great service by giving the substantial majority a voice.

The sentiments of Middle America are clear to those who will listen-- even 75% of blue state New Yorkers were outraged (first) by Spitzer's plan to give licenses to ILLEGAL aliens, and it was the first issue and mortal wound that began to derail Shrillary's chances. Amnesty John is a FOOL to try to keep going for Hispanic votes by supporting ILLEGALS-- half of legal Hispanics oppose them outright. Long-time Republicans like I will NOT vote for Juan McQuisling under any circumstances... better to try to check Obamanation via Congress than to put in another open border, RINO, neoCON dupe of underwhelming cognitive ability.

Gee , ya think?
The NAU is nothing to be concerned about and the Amero is already in production? Good night America. See ya on the ash pile of history!.....

DAYS OF OLD
JimP, VA, #48
1)The immigrants from days of old were legal and HAD to assimilate"

The last large immigration was after WW2...WE, me/my family, my husband/his family...

WERE NOT ALLOWED TO APPLY FOR "RELIEF" as it was known them.

We got here, we took menial jobs, paid our own rent, paid for our own food, paid our own medical...there was no bi-lingual assistance other than another person who had arrived earlier and had learned some English act as translator for us.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO TAKE CARE OF OTHER ABLE BODIED PEOPLE. STOP ALL SERVICES...STOP THE ANCHOR BABY PROGRAM...if they want to come legally, they should know they will receive NOTHING other than the privilege to live in this country, find whatever job. If they come here illegally and cannot get jobs due to E-Verify, they won't come.

They, including legal immigrants, come because they know there are services they can apply for.

If no able bodied person got public assistance, other than those truly incapacitated, that would reduce the numbers of both legal & illegal...we might even stand a chance of routing out those who wish to do us harm as there would be less to track.

Welfare State + Open Borders =
BIG problems.

RINOS missing the message
RINOS have been committing slow suicide/death by a thousand cuts via embracing ILLEGALS. Because miscreant employers want to milk the "cheap" labor (which is ACTUALLY VERY EXPENSIVE to America all-in socio-economically), the
Chamber lobbies buy the pols. RINO's like Presidente Jorge and Amnesty John made Faustian deals some time ago hoping to get Hispanic votes. RINO's speak of Jorge increasing the share of that vote. The trouble with that reckoning is that middle class Hispanic-Americans have little in common with the ILLEGAL alien horde... almost half of the former in Az. voted for tough new anti-ILLEGAL sanctions in Az., which took effect starting Jan. 1, and are causing ILLEGALS to vamanos back to Mexico.

The aspect of this that the left does not yet quite get yet is that while the ILLEGALS WILL indeed vote for big entitlement government, 3/4 of America opposes making them voters. Gov. Spitzer was nearly lynched in blue state New York for his drivers'license/voter fraud scam attempt, and states which had made the mistake (under the lib ruse of, "we want to know who is here") of giving them licenses are reversing the policy.

Wanting to stanch ILLEGALS is NOT "a fringe conservative issue." It is righteous indignation that will be felt in a number of election contests going forward. A key part of the anger at Presidente Jorge is about his willful nonfeasance on this issue. Of course, Amnesty Juan is simply paying lip service when he says, "We got America's message about enforcement." That quisling even appointed Smilin' Juan Hernandez to be his "Hispanic outreach adviser"... in reaching out to ILLEGALS, he is alienating middle Americans! Hence, we have a Hobson's Choice for POTUS yet again on this issue and others-- Juan McAmnesty has moved leftward on many issues.

Riley's an embarassment.....
I've heard Riley on Dennis Prager and Lou Dobbs....what can I say without sounding too mean? Let's just say he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer. :)

He's such an obvious puppet put out by the Wall Street Journal to pitch their "open borders uber alles" agenda, it's a joke. His arguments are all tired, old cliches, like those of "conservative" Barone. Michael Barone a conservative? Is this April 1st?

Unbelievable
How interesting. Open the borders, and let the market decide who gets hired. That is what's being said, is it not? So, let's see. We have better social programs, schools and hospitals than those that exist in many of the countries that many of these illegals come from. Our houses, even the worst, are superior to the majority in these same countries. The houses in these countries are smaller, and far more people are willing to occupy that smaller space that is true here. And then, of course, their standard of living, to include diet, clothes, and transportation, is far lower than ours. This dictates that they will work for less, because they are willing to live on less. Under the circumstances, does it not follow that even if one tries to make the argument that they don't compete with workers today, that letting the market decide would, by definition, ensure that they'd certainly be competing in the future? That is, after all, pure capitalism. At this point, we talk of 12 to 20 million. However, Mexico's population has grown from 29 million to 110 million in the same time frame that ours grew from 150 million to 300 million. Citizens of 142 nations have been identified as crossing into the US via Mexico. This rather silly statement would cause us to invite them all in. The first group, outside of those living across the Southern border, would be the 2 million Iraqi's living in camps. Then, we'd have the several million in the Darfur region, and another 3 million or so refugees in Zimbabe. The list is endless. Ah yes, invite them all here. There are 6 billion people in the world today. I imgagine that several hundred million would be perfectly willing to move here tomorrow, given the conditions where they are.

Let's do it. Sounds Great. Me, I'll be in Australia, thank you very much.

America is clear about ILLEGAL aliens


The general public overwhelmingly favors REAL immigration reform (but NOT Kennedy-McQuisling Scamnesty posing as "Comprehensive Immigration Reform"). Poll after poll shows that Americans want well-enforced, sensible, and sustainable immigration laws and LEGAL immigration
of the educated and skilled who can be positive contributors on balance.

* 89% of Americans think illegal immigration into the U.S. is a problem (30% "extremely serious," 33% "very serious," and 26% "somewhat serious."
(Time Magazine, Jan. 2006)

* 82% think that not enough is being done along the borders to keep ILLEGAL aliens from crossing into the country.
(New York Times/CBS May 2007)

* 68% feel that the number of immigrants who cross the border, whether legal or ILLEGAL is “too high”. (Polling Company, Sept. 2006)

* 62% oppose making it easier for ILLEGAL aliens to become citizens of America. (Quinnipiac Univ., Feb. 2006)

*71% believe that ILLEGAL aliens should not qualify for in-state tuition rates at colleges and universities.

*77% oppose making drivers' licenses available to ILLEGAL aliens.

*71% favor requiring foreign visitors to carry a tamper-proof universal I.D. card

*77% say that employers can require English-only on the job

The PC ilk, the leftist MSM, ethnocentric Hispanic groups, and the open borders, globalist, miscreant employer types barrage us with disingenuous info, but Middle America IS righteously indignant about ILLEGALS. If not stopped and reversed via enforcement of EXISTING laws, which would lead to attritive
repatriation, they will morph us into a third world barrio. Furthermore, they will vote in a permanent welfare entitlement state after bringing in their myriad ignorant indigent relatives.

Libertarians are not conservatives
Libertarians are not conservatives. There is no such thing as an "open borders conservative." This ideological position is internally contradictory. In the interest of clarity, liberatarians need to be willing to shed any attachment to the label of "conservative." Politically, the alliance of libertarians and conservatives back in the 1950s ("fusionism") was strictly pragmatic, based on opposition to Communism. As contemporary conservatism evolved, it became more doctrinally coherent, especially to the extent that it has been shaped by religious conservatives. Libertarians have always been very uncomfortable with religious conservatives, as well as with American nationalistic conservatives (whether deeply religious or not).

Whatever libertarians may do, the "open borders" position has no real support among real conservatives, and those who advocate it are very much on the margins of conservatism.

hard-liners clueless


You see these fringe GOP hard-liner comments and it makes you LAUGH.

Now, I'm not for "open borders" whatever that means.

I believe in deporting illegal entrants from this country; keeping ALL traffic in and out through every border gate ONLY-- those checkpoints where an agent sees your ID and turns you around if you have no legal permit.

I know to date this hasn't been very efficient, but it can be fortified and it'll work. I don't think anybody's suggested we throw the border OPEN to everybody.

What's offensive about characters like "Lodestar" is the hate speech & ridiculous charges they keep making. It isn't enough for these idiots to demand we patrol our southern border; they expect all Americans to HATE Mexicans. Lodestool devotes weeks to a tawdry effort here, sliming anyone who isn't racially prejudiced; and making stupid claims. Claims like --"70% are indignant about illegal immigration!"

Which makes one ask: "Who counted those nasty opinions? If 70% are P.O ed, why hasn't it been carried in Congress? Why isn't hatred for amnesty the only thing ever pushed by our country's citizens?

Clearly, half this population is NOT alarmed about what happened; because only those idiots on the far-right detest Mexicans enough to scream about McAmnesty, Shamnesty, and NO other choice but to kick out 12 million people who came here illegally, NOTHING BUT ! They really believe THEY'RE 70% of the American population!!! They're really only 25% if THAT many.

They have every right to their harsh, greedy and clueless opinions. Except to get in other American's faces about it; like freakin gangsters. My advice to Lode of crap is cast your ONE vote, like I do, and keep your opinions to yourself.


rattle those cages in Congress!
Congress is currently stalling on TRUE immigration reform, i.e., truly resolving to stop ILLEGALS as middle america desires. One danger of a representative republic is that the organized and monied come to have too much influence.

The single best-funded lobbying group is the Chamber lobbies-- guess what they tell Congress is "good for America"?! Members of Congress are rightly reviled as a group (they go to Washington to do GOOD, but they stay to do WELL), but 90% get reelected because they flow pork to their home districts, so voters tend to like their OWN Congressman. Those guys are waiting for the fuss to die down and a new resident of the Oval Office to cram Scamnesty down our throats. (Presidente Jorge Bush loves scamnesty, but 82% of America now rightly sees him as a boob and neoCON dupe, who led us in the wrong direction.)

Middle America shocked Congress last year with its virulently righteously indignant reaction to Kennedy-McAmnesty, which was derailed. But the Conspiracy Of Evil (see details to follow) is determined to foist open borders and scamnesty upon you.

Keep rattling their cages so that the money flowing from the special interests will seem less "special" to Congress It is easy to reach them at numbersUSA.com with prepared, targeted e-mails, and you can send direct e-mails or call them at their official contact sites and offices just below... bookmark these sites and contact them OFTEN and with VIGOR... be respectfully pertinacious/insistent:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/content/6/3105
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/congress/phone-numbers-an d-mailing-addresses-memb.html
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/congress/your-members-con gress.html

to lodestar; FURTHERMORE:
YOU are the main causes of every American hispanic seeing the Republican Party as the proud promoter of racial hatred and white supremacy. Maybe you haven't noticed how you sound to others; but I won't be identified with your hate-speech; and I'm a conservative Republican!

When those zany groups like La Raza act up in our faces it's YOUR KIND they're protesting about! --You give them cause, not good Republicans. And, for sure, NOT 70% of all Americans.

You don't represent ME. You damn sure are NOT-- in the remote vicinity of 70% of us; that's a self-serving LIE.

"proposition nation"?
from the challenging, provocative mind of Lawrence Auster....www.amnation.com

Son of Proposition Nation: the Rule of Law

Over the last several years, the neoconservatives have largely dropped their slogan from the 1990s, originally adopted in response to the immigration debate, that America is a “Proposition Nation”—meaning that American identity consists of nothing but prescription to an idea, the idea of universal individual equality. The reason for this, I believe, is that the neocons have become aware that many of our new immigrants do not believe in that idea, but have very different beliefs, and therefore to promote that idea as the definition of America only underscores the fact that the immigrants are not assimilating to our society as the neocons assured us they would. Instead, the neocons, along other liberals, in all discussions about how America can assimilate Muslims and other non-Western immigrants, have adopted a new ritualistic incantation: that America is defined by “the rule of law.”

The next time you see a neocon or liberal utter this phase, ask him: “If America, operating under the rule of law, adopted polygamy, would it still be America? If America, operating under the rule of law, adopted sharia, would it still be America? If America, operating under the rule of law, became a Spanish speaking country with a Hispanic culture, would it still be America? If America, operating under the rule of law, surrendered its sovereignty to a transnational organization, would it still be America?”

The examples should make it clear that the rule of law, by itself, does not define what we are substantively as a people, a country, a way of life. Anyone who reduces America, or any Western country, to “the rule of law” and other such abstract phrases, is a liberal who has shown him incapable of defending our actual civilization from the mortal threats that confront it.


Posted by Lawrence Auster at 01:05 PM

..joe cr, I sympathize but....
.
You are way off base. Some of the most vocal writers and TV anchors are in the same boat as I. We are married and happily married to women of Latin American origin.

You may be Latin yourself but with a US origin. I am sure my Spanish which I use daily since 50 years ago is far superior even to many illegal migrants Spanish both spoken and written, however, you are totally in the dark as to the real problem of immigration when it is undertaken as an illegal activity.

Those Latins who are legal and quite often have their US citizenship are heavily and negatively affected by the illegals just as badly or worse than the rest of us. There are reasons, too numerous to mention, that most (more than 50%) of native born Latins and those who have acquired citizenship are OPPOSED to this illegal crime wave. Yes, crime wave. Illegal means a crime is/was committed, and is continuing until rectified.

No one is hanging or shooting or otherwise mistreating illegals. That will happen if the present situation is not corrected and I don't mean by pardoning them. I mean by expulsion. It is not necessary to physically deport them. They leave and quickly when their jobs are removed.

Like unwelcome house guests who suddenly find the refrigerator empty, they leave..
.
.

The illegal immigrant situation is being
fueled by lobbyists for the building, construction, auto and related trades. THE AIM IS TO COMPLETELY WIPE OUT THE UNIONS. PERIOD.

Lawrence Auster at 01:05 PM
EXCELLENT!!

deadnuts now awake in Mexifornia?
Will someone please give dead-from-the-neck-up his anti-psychotic meds so perhaps he can finish his oatmeal and prunes and drift back off into dreamland at the home.

There are serious thinkers here addressing real issues about the pernicious and pandemic social pathology problems inextricably associated with ILLEGAL aliens...
and some among us actually back up our fact-based statements with reputable sources, even from the left of center, e.g., TIME, the N.Y. Times, CNN.

We are ALL entitled to our own opinions, but NOT to our own facts.

"Hispanics" should vote Democratic....
Let the so called "Hispanics" vote for the Dems...I don't give a damn, that's where they should vote anyway. "Hispanic" is often a euphemism for Mexican (legal and illegal). If it elects Osama/Obama, so be it. It'll teach the "stupid party" a lesson. "Hispanics" are often leftist/Marxist in orientation. The Democratic party is their natural home.

Am I against Mexicans? On the individual level, no but am I against TENS OF MILLIONS of Mexicans coming to the US, yes I am against that. And also against it for the sheer lawlessness of it all, for a huge number of them are breaking several laws concurrently. Just like I'm against tens of millions of Chinese, Indians, Muslims (for cultural reasons) and against tens of millions of European/Christian immigrants as well for the sheer over-population and economic-busting reason of that to boot.




dreadnaught....
.
...and you are not a typical American. Typical Americans are not very vocal but they do support the removal of illegals who are FUBARing everything in this country. Why.??.

Because there are toooo many of them. Numbers make a difference. They have a very different culture and mostly the poor come, not from the countries smallest towns but from the largest cities, and they have the criminals advantage as that is what they have eaten and breathed all their life. One out of every five is from Mexico city. Three out of five are from large cities like Monterrey, Veracruz and Guadalajara. Only two in five is from small towns and farming or ranching. That is reflected in their employment. 2 percent or less work in our farming operations and less than 10 percent are involved in some form of gardening or grass cutting at private and public properties. The vast majority are doing food service, manufacturing, service industries and construction or remodeling.

Would I want them in my business if I was a US business person dependent upon labor services.??. Yes, but that doesn't make it right. It is simply wrong and unacceptable.

Mexicans in Mexico think there are too many foreigners there. How many is that you ask.??.

Less than one million in a country of 110 million plus, approximately 750,000 most of whom are not working but instead are taking money into Mexico every month.

Suggest you take your dread and naught it.
.
.

the inconvenient truths
re:
"If one illegal from Latin America commits a crime, it makes the national news. Why, out of thousands of crimes unreported. Middle-Eastern Muslims attacked the U.S. and declared war on us, and we vent our anger against Mexicans and others south of the border? Why? A recent article about illegal immigration made reference to a group that accounted for the majority of welfare costs, crime, etc, etc. Are we being fed false and misleading information in order to kill any talk of amnesty?"

********************************************

Res ipsa loquitur-- the thing speaks for itself. The correlation between Hispanic ILLEGALS and serious crimes is atrocious; the government's own stats bear this out.

Crime

Hispanics are 3.3 times more likely to be in prison than whites; they are 4.2 times more likely to be in prison for murder, and 5.8 times more likely to be in prison for felony drug crimes.

Young Hispanics are 19 times more likely than young whites (and slightly more likely than young blacks) to be in youth gangs.

A few sources of data... see the first especially for a overview summary:

http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_illegal_immigrati on_sex_crimes.html
http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=966
http://www.adjunct.diodon349.com/Attack_on_USA/illegal_alie
ns__du_murder_rape_terrorists.htm
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51259
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_ill egalsandcrime
http://www.milnet.com/mex-nat.html
http://newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty2.htm
http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_illegal_immigrati on_crime_summary.html

Actually onceamarine.
While most illegals are in fact poor (if they weren't they could come to the US legally), a great many don't come from the major Mexican cities but actually from the rural areas of Mexico where due to various factors including NAFTA the economy has basically collasped.

You see this in other countries. Internal migrants to the major "boom" cities in China like Guangzhou and Shanghai come from the rural areas--not other major cities like say Wuhan, but rural Sichuan, Henan, etc.

Having a rational guest worker program is not the same as open borders where you simply let anyone come in and such guest worker programs have indeed worked in other countries. Can one work in the US, yes, but it depends how it is run. It should not be an end around to US immigration law and thus a path to permanent residence or citizenship--and that was the idea under McCain-Kennedy.

Lodestar versus dreadnaught
.
Not even close.

Lodestar is so far out of your league my little wimp who claims to be a conservative but demonstrates anything but that you are a mouse confronting a bull in the ring and no cape nor sword.

Few of us HATE Mexicans. I for one do not and there are many more who never had that thought before.

But since you bring it up.. There will soon be much more discrimination against those of Latin American origin if we don't "nip it in the bud" now. We are only fostering the kind of hate you injudiciously and unfairly describe.

You want to help some deserving Latins and avoid a blood standoff.??.

Get on the other side and let's relieve the pressure they are applying by simply being too many and too sure that we will eventually be allowed the to stay forever.
.
.

And Nessus
You seem from last week's post to be against non-white immigration too. You could be against tens of millions of Chinese, but they aren't that many in the US, so you can stop worrying. There are only 2.4 Million Chinese in the US and many of these were born here and have had family members here since the 1850s. And Hispanic is not simply a code word for Mexican--it is a cultural grouping that includes anyone from a country that has roots with Portugal or Spain-and some Hispanics have roots in the US for longer than perhaps you Nessus.

Actually Akagi.....

A very large percentage is from the major and mid sized cities of Mexico. It is argued whether one in four or one in five (20 to 25%) is from Mexico City. I tend to believe it is one in five. All large cities have enormous numbers of family members in the U.S. Mexico is NOT China. We are talking about a very different phenomena. The number of Mexicans with relatives, brothers cousins, fathers, mothers, uncles and aunts, etc. is staggering. They among themselves (in Mexico) say and believe that there are few of them who don't have family in the U.S.

Also I tend to believe that you have a poorly developed concept of how many there are. The numbers of illegals and legals and US born Latins in approximately 50 million plus. US government numbers 8 years ago said that 0ne in nine was at that time Latin and one in 13 was Mexican. Those numbers today are far out of date. They have increased those numbers today by about half again and the numbers of truly illegals is no less than 20 million. Remember too that there are uncounted millions of illegals here from across the globe including an awful lot from "Caucasian countries, Arabs and Orientals, Hindis and Africans. While those other countries and regions have a larger share of legals to illegals, they do have a considerable portion of their populations here illegally. They usually are more careful and tend to work in small tight knit groups as opposed to working in the bright sunlight of public exposure, and because there are fewer of them they are not getting the attention they so richly deserve.

But illegal is "ILLEGAL" and no apologies should be accepted nor rewards given.
.
.

Send 'em ALL back to th' Hellhole
They crawled out of. After serving 16+ years as a Florida Correction Officer, I can tell you Mis-Guided Humanitarians/DO-GOODERS/DEMOCRATS WHY They Come Here.--- Because I asked them.-- For 16+ years,-- I asked them, in casual confidential un-monitored conversation, with no fear of consequences. [#1 answer]--Free Country,-- Free Money, Free House, Free Babies/Medical Attention etc. [#2 answer], SOFT COUNTRY. Soft on illegals, Soft on Crime, Soft in the Penal system. [#3 answer], They'll Kill YOU,[The Police, no Trial,if you RUN] in my Home Country, for things they just "LET YOU GO FOR, HERE!! And, if they Lock you up, It's like a luxury Hotel, 3 Hots an' a Cot!! Free Medical, little or no Work, and I can hang out with my fellow Latin Kings or MS-13 Home boys, and Victimize the CRACKERS/Gavachos/Jueros. The Parents, Might not be Too much of a Problem, aside from the usual Drunk-Driving Mayhem,and Cut 'n Shoot E.R. Saturday Nights,-- but the Kids are Citizens, and are/become GANG MEMBERS of the most VIOLENT TYPE! The American Cities are thiers, to extract any and everything they desire. AND they are LAUGING AT US, for being SO STUPID as to Allow them to STAY HERE, and VOTE [Democrat Of COURSE]!!!!!

Really Nessey?
"The reason for this, I believe, is that the neocons have become aware that many of our new immigrants do not believe in that idea, but have very different beliefs, and therefore to promote that idea as the definition of America only underscores the fact that the immigrants are not assimilating to our society as the neocons assured us they would."

Actually immigrants are assimilating and care to explain what this means to you? I can't eat mantou anymore or something.

Lodestar, well since a majority of Americans can't even tell you how many justices are on the SCOTUS for example, polling numbers don't impress me all that much when asking about complex issues like immigration. Now, a poll who should have won American Idol, well maybe we can take some stock in that.

In the 1950s, polls showed a majority of Americans wanted segregation to remain in place. The majority is not always right--remember Henry David Thoreau's quote of "any man more right than his neighbors constitutes a majority of one."

Oh and a side note, why are all our post now doubled? Is once not enough?

Yes, Akagi....
.
Some American Hispanics have roots that go back many generations and some died defending the Alamo and more died at San Jacinto and other places like Goliad defending the fledgling Republic of Texas.

And yes, Hispanic means roots from Spain or Portugal or native American populations as in Mestizo populations or at times real American Indians (native populations from North, Central or South America).

So what.>??. You are again beating a dead horse and comparing apples to oranges. Most native born American Hispanics and those who have acquired through correct means there U.S. nationality DO NOT SUPPORT unlimited illegal immigration. They feel more threatened and understandably so than do most non Hispanic peoples.
.
.

Onceamarine
Latinos in 2000 were 35.5 million and Mexicans were 20.6 million. The most recent estimate is 45.5 million, so I am quite aware of the numbers but since many of these millions have been in the US (well their families have) for over a hundred years if not longer, the numbers don't bother me all that much--does the existence of Bill Richardson (those from Spain are also Hispanic) or Linda Chavez bother you? The legal status is the issue, not the numbers.

Yes many illegals from Mexico also come from the Mexico City, buy many also come from the rural areas. The numbers of Mexicans coming into the US since NAFTA (1995) has exploded and many of these recent arrivals come from the rural areas, not the major cities. The estimates are that in 1995 there were only 2.5 million Mexicans in the US illegally, that number has increased by at least 8 million since NAFTA. Many of these are former agricultural workers. Some 2 million Mexicans have been forced off the land since NAFTA and you don't find too many farms in downtown Mexico City.






Akagi the foreign-boy speaks!
"Hispanic": is a politically motivated term, tracing back mainly to the 1960s as a way of grouping all Latinos (more ethnically correct term) under one label and therefore creating a numerically larger and therefore more politically powerful "lobby". But for 8 or 9 times out of 10, "Hispanic" means Mexican.

Deep thinkers like have come out in recent months to say that a big, growing problem is the lack of assimialtion of newer immigrants (legal and illegal). See Samuel Huntington (Clash of Civilizations and Who Are We?), John Derbyshire (National Review), Peter Brimelow (Alien Nation), Lawrence Auster (The Path to National Suicide). These are not lightweight thinkers.

This is multi-purposed. Among the reasons are: 1) huge number of immigrants, 2) large portion coming from one "feeder" culture - Spanish speaking Latinos, 3) large numbers of immgirants that are illegal aliens, which by definition causes secondary and tertiary law-breaking in order to stay and work in this country and 4) liberalism among American academic and public (govt.) sector which panders to "newcomers".

a GREAT reference site

http://www.usillegalaliens.com/

If you want a site that has well-sourced stats on the myriad egregious inimical ills perpetrated by ILLEGAL aliens on America, this one is excellent.

The host of the site sounds like many among us-- no xenophobe or racist, as some cognitively bereft and/or PC gadflies reflexively bray ad hominem, but simply a concerned citizen shocked by the perhaps irreparable and growing menace of the madding crowd of ILLEGAL great unwashed, uneducated, indigent and willfully culturally disparate who are permeating America like the Black Death.

Time is VERY short to save America... see how YOU can easily get involved at my posts below. We cannot avoid another open border/globalist in the Oval Office (paid for by the Conspiracy Of Evil), BUT we can perhaps continue to remind Congress that 75% want the flow of ILLEGALS stanched and the tide reversed via enforcement of existing laws. Middle Americans JUST LIKE YOU have derailed Scamnesty efforts for over a year now, but the minority side is well-funded and determined to give us more government by the special interests for the special interests.

May God bless America and keep her for those who rightly belong here and those who emigrate LEGALLY and PROPERLY and assimilate. We MUST place an emphasis on those with education and skills who can offer net contributions, not those who will permeate pandemic social ills. The melting pot will melt down if we do not stanch and reverse the tsunami of the ignorant, indigent, willfully culturally disparate.

Onceamarine
I don't support illegal immigration--unrestricted or otherwise. But the ham-fisted way the conservatives engaged in the immigration debate has hurt the GOP--did you see the bigoted comments made toward Linda Chavez during the McCain-Kennedy debate here? You think Hispanics welcomed that kind of language? You think that the drastic drop in GOP support among Hispanics from 2004 to 2006 was 100% unrelated to the tone of the immigration debate?

And even if McCain supported the bill that bore his name, he isn't losing 2:1 among Hispanics, he is losing by more than 3:1, 69% to 21%. You can win losing 90% of the black vote, you can't win if you start losing 90% of the Hispanic vote too.


This is NOT rocket science!

Anyone, Hispanic or otherwise, who does not have the proper documentation is here ILLEGALLY!

And, that includes those who at one time HAD proper documentation, but overstayed. ILLEGAL!

Get it? They broke our law! Any questions?

Then lets talk about the 300 BILLION dollars ILLEGAL ALIENS cost this country annually. And don't even try to mention that they pay taxes. The cost FAR, FAR, FAR out weighs whatever taxes they pay... IF they pay.

And let's talk about the murders committed by ILLEGAL ALIENS. On average, twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens. That translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001 (as of Nov. 2006.)

And lets not forget DISEASE! How about tuberculosis, that was declared "eradicated" in 1963. No more! And it's not the old run of the mill, TB, the ILLEGAL ALIENS are bringing in DRUG RESISTANT TB.

And how about leprosy... several cases have been found in a few southern states.. and don't forget, there is NO CURE for leprosy. Nice huh?

Moving on to a few more diseases, such as strains of flu that has killed many right here in the US this his past winter.

All in all, there are obviously very good reasons why we need to eliminate the ILLEGAL ALIEN invasion.

NOW is the time for all...

...good citizens to save America from the ILLEGAL alien invcursion, pervasion and perversion!

What exactly are ILLEGAL aliens "entitled to" from anyone in American society? One side (see Geraldo, Linda Chavez, Smilin' Juan Hernandez) proffers inane apologia and prattle such as, "border crossing is a minor transgression akin to jaywalking," or "they are just trying to feed their families," or "they are just doing those jobs Americans won't do," or "America needs their cheap labor." ALL of these are willful, fatuous, disingenuous red herring dodges and prevarications/equivocations!

ANY ILLEGAL alien who works here is automatically committing multiple felonious frauds, which does not count the pandemic social pathologies which permeate with them like the plague. It is NOT the obligation of American society and taxpayers to bail out corrupt and failed plutocratic Latin American governments by providing employment and social welfare for their myriad, ignorant indigent.

America CANNOT AFFORD this so-called "cheap labor," which actually benefits only the relative few miscreant employers; a hotel room or head of lettuce is NO CHEAPER to the consumer as a result of ILLEGAL alien labor. When the feds make their "show raids" on miscreant employers such as meat processing plants, Americans (often the LEGAL workers previously displaced) usually refill the jobs
IMMEDIATELY, giving lie to the myth of "doing jobs Americans won't do."

Just below are the official contact sites for Congress... a few clicks, and you can EASILY send e-mails. Even easier--> NumbersUSA gives you FREE, prepared e-mails to send, and even targets your people in Congress for you. BOOKMARK THESE, and get engaged today! America would be a terrible thing to lose!

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm
http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet

NO OPEN BORDER
onceamarine says:


"Most native born American Hispanics and those who have acquired through correct means there U.S. nationality DO NOT SUPPORT unlimited illegal immigration."

Nobody argues with that. I myself don't and never will support "unlimited illegal immigration"-- You think you're Dick Tracy now; pointing that out?

I don't support OPEN BORDERS, whatever that is. I support our Border Patrol. I support the deportation of captured peons, just as we NOW are deporting them. I also see the need and the reasons behind a conditional amnesty; because we can't uproot millions of families; legal or not. That's a no-brainer! And yet we have these blockheads demanding that.

I reject hatred and demonizing of poor peons on the basis of their racial descent and language, or because they found a chickensh1t job in my neighborhood. They happen to be human beings; I demand they be treated by every American; not only you & me; with the respect we treat a white American. Is that a departure from conservatism? If it is, screw conservatives. I was of the belief we all have human rights.

Lodestar isn't of any belief, except how they'll steal Americans blind. Or they came from a HELL-Hole, to his lovely, graceful, delicate country! What I mean is; people like Lodestool are bigots. No better than Nazis who hated every Jew for ALL the cheeky reasons; mainly that Germans were the super race. Jews were evil.








Crime
It has been reported several times, on CNN, FOX, MSNBC, etc. etc., that at least 30% of the prison population of the U.S. is made up of illegal immigrants who have committed felonies AFTER sneaking into this country. I have heard and read this statistic numerous times in various electronic and print media. Are all these news sources lying about this particular claim? If so, where is the evidence that the claim is false? I have also seen reports in the MSM that a large number of the murders and rapes in places like Texas, New Mexico and New Jersey are committed by illegal immigrants. About a year ago, CNN and FOX both reported that one third of all those incarcerated in the state of New Jersey for murder and drug dealing are illegal immigrants. Can anyone prove those particular statistics wrong?
Three years ago, my niece's stepson was killed, in California, by a group of several illegal immigrants in a van, which was driven at high speed through an intersection after the driver ignored a stop sign. All of the illegals were intoxicated, none of them had a driver's license, and none spoke a word of English. How in the hell did they even think they could read the traffic signs?

Nessus
First off Clash of Civilizations was total bunk and he got savaged for his conclusions--see Amartya Sen and Paul Berman. But that is a topic for another day. He has often been wrong and he is wrong here.

Immigrants are assimilating and assimilating no slower than those from the past. And all Latinos aren't Hispanics--someone from France of Italy would be considered Latino. Hispanic is no less a valid term. it is not an ethnic grouping but a cultural one--for example, Alberto Fujimori.


two white supremacists onboard


Just a couple of glances at their most recent posts; you won't have any trouble seeing racist, white supremacist arguments here,

Ann and Lodestar; each one pleading the cause "righteous" hatred of an ethnic group.

They think they speak for America. They only speak for bigotry.

Signs
In Taiwan, Americans (and anybody else as far as that goes) can get a Taiwan driver's license as long as they hold a international driver's license--no need to pass a test, no need to be able to read Chinese. Never seen many issues with foreigners driving around not being able to read Chinese, the taxi drivers cause enough carnage on their own without blaming them. Perhaps if the US adopted international signage this wouldn't be an issue.

I did notice my one time to Mexico the stop signs looked just like US signs except they said Alto instead of Stop, seems people that can't read English still know what a stop sign means.

As for crime, well, that is why you secure the border by having true workplace enforcement and have a guest worker program that screens the applicants.

A side note, plenty of white guys and gals killing people by DUI too--one local kid was killed in his own bed by a drunk driver--she crashed into his house and ran over him as he slept in his own bed. She was a white redneck, not some Mexican day laborer.

Ed Wallis (7:32AM) must have been living

under a ROCK someplace!!!

"I highly doubt that hospitals are being closed around the country, and schools being overburdened due to illegal aliens who are 'higher-skilled...than the average American.'"

In fact, that rock is probably someplace in Tibet!

Linda Chavez is a paid off prostitute...
Linda Chavez is a paid off prostitute, nothing more. She has credibility? Did anyone hear how Laura Ingraham ate Chavez's lunch last year on Ingraham's radio program. She's like Gerry Rivers, who can't think beyond his liberal, ethnic-tribe (Jewish Latinos!!) Now we find out Chavez is up to her neck in money garnered in less than honorable ways. She makss a living off of her ethnicity, how pathetic.

You must UNDERSTAND that Mexico is so frickin corrupt, half of the nation's population wants to leave and come to the USA. In fact, a poll just a few weeks ago, taken in Mexico should 48% of Mexicans want to come to the US and will either legally or illegally.

Mexico receives more visas for legal immigration than any other nation on earth, yet they also lead in illegal immigration and illegal narcotics coming into our country. Yeah, let's have more of this behavior!

Akagi-boy wants more of his kin in the People's Republic of China to come here, let's empty out half of Mexico, China and India and half of the Mohammedan world....bring them all here, by God, cuz there is no real American culture, history, heritage. Why we're all immigrants, according to Akagi-boy.

Of course, one must ask, why does Mexico strictly enforce it's borders and immigration laws? Why does Japan have essentially zero immigration? Ditto India. China, well, the Chi-coms have become such prostitutes that they'll do anything for money these days, they don't want adult, individual liberty, self-government, they want to be led by the Politburo as long as they can make money!!

Such hypocrisy by the foreigners....



no worse hypocrits than...
per Akagi:
"I don't support illegal immigration--unrestricted or otherwise. But the ham-fisted way the conservatives engaged in the immigration debate has hurt the GOP--did you see the bigoted comments made toward Linda Chavez during the McCain-Kennedy debate here"

********************************************
... the wealthy remote "elites." Linda chavez is a case in point. She writes routinely here about the alleged benefits of ILLEGAL aliens, BUT she never fesses up that she sits on the board of a huge janitorial company which employs them! Consider uber lib Nancy Pelosi... she brays about compassion for ILLEGALS and supports scamnesty even as her wealthy crook husband employs them and they work ILLEGALLY in her vineyards.

ILLEGALS are simply the new slaves in a very real socio-economic sense-- the relative few benefit ILLEGALLY from their labors (YOUR hotel room and vegetables are no cheaper to YOU), but the legacy will be DEVASTATING for the many (citizens and taxpayers) who will inherit the pandemic social pathologies and pay for the restoked welfare state, which the prolific ILLEGALS will soon insist upon with numbers.

Those who do not learn from the mistakes of history are condemned to repeat them. Much of Europe now faces the inevitable hegemony of Shariah Law in a generation because it imported Islamic Arabs to do its mean tasks... the native populations never fathomed making them equal citizens, but they are inexorably being outbred.

to myk from Oregon


Myk asks:

"at least 30% of the prison population of the U.S. is made up of illegal immigrants who have committed felonies AFTER sneaking into this country. I have heard and read this statistic numerous times in various electronic and print media. Are all these news sources lying about this particular claim? If so, where is the evidence that the claim is false? "

It's false. Do the math. If anything, illegal alien felons are always being DEPORTED without being prosecuted, under some insane clause in our justice system.

If you're looking for evidence that the above is false; it would be better for you to look for evidence that it was TRUE. That'll disabuse you of these stupid statistics.



Reply to Roy (post #77)
Thank you for shedding light on the REAL truth, and thank you VERY much for your service to this country. I am convinced that the proverbial cat is out of the bag now, and this nation is past the point of no return. The light of freedom is getter dimmer every day.

third racist exposes him/her self


I said before Lodestool and Anna were crude bigots and white supremacist.


They are. Add Nessus; not very secretive about his/her racist feelings. Check how he called Agaki, "boy." These bums are the same one used to lynch black men not long ago. In California they hated the Okies, then later the "Japs," now it's the Mexicans.

Of course today it's with a veneer; these are illegal aliens. Is Linda Chavez illegal? No; she's just Mexican descent' to a bigot it's the same thing.

Nessus calls Linda a dirty name. Prostitute. I'd wager he called his mother that, too. When he was kicked out of bed and ordered to go get a job. "That dang prostitute! Mom; you're a prostitute!"

Hahaha! Beavis Nessus! Get a job! Get a LIFE!

dreadnaught writes: "two white
supremacists onboard ... racist, white supremacist arguments here,... Ann and Lodestar; each one pleading the cause "righteous" hatred of an ethnic group."

I KNOW you couldn't have meant "Anne."

I KNOW it was just a typo on your part, because I am no more a "racist" or "white supremacist" than YOU are...

What I DO advocate is obeying the laws.

Apology accepted.... :-)

THE WHITE GENOCIDE CONSERVATIVES

If we continue with the status quo immigration policy as established BY the flaming America hater Ted Kennedy in 1965, white genocide will continue apace.

That is what "open borders" conservatives (an oxymoron)ignorantly propose. Now, if you can advocate a system that is changing our formerly 90 percent white population to less than 50 percent in a few short years, you just as surely can request we return to the 90 percent again without being considered a racist.

This is not about our having enough jobs and letting people in to take them. This is about destroying our culture with people who have no intention on joining it. This is about bringing in people only for the sake of money grubbing. This is about letting in too many who assimilate poorly and have contempt for us.

We need a moratorium on all immigration until we have a national debate about this issue. The LAST people to be concerned about are businessmen.

To hell with these businessmen and politicians who want to destroy this nation so they can become gazillioniares.

I detest these people who make merchandise of US citizenship, trade deals of fidelity to country, and fire sales of our children's heritage.

They are all guilty of treason and deserve a traitors fate.

If conservatives yield this position there is no turning back as the government will provoke civil war.

sure, they're assimilating....LoL!
from http://www.jihadwatch.org

US company asks Florida court to judge case by Islamic law, not American law.

The STEALTH JIHAD of short-sightedness and expediency.

"U.S. company: crash lawsuit governed by Islamic law," by Joseph Neff and Jay Price for the News & Observer, June 19 (thanks to all who sent this in):

RALEIGH - To defend itself against a lawsuit by the widows of three American soldiers who died on one of its planes in Afghanistan, a sister company of the private military firm Blackwater has asked a federal court to decide the case using the Islamic law known as Shari’a.
The lawsuit “is governed by the law of Afghanistan,” Presidential Airways argued in a Florida federal court. “Afghan law is largely religion-based and evidences a strong concern for ensuring moral responsibility, and deterring violations of obligations within its borders.”

If the judge agrees, it would essentially end the lawsuit over a botched flight supporting the U.S. military. Shari’a law does not hold a company responsible for the actions of employees performed within the course of their work.

Erik Prince, who owns Blackwater and Presidential Airways, briefly discussed the lawsuit in a meeting today with editors and reporters at The News & Observer. Prince was asked to justify having a case involving an American company working for the U.S. government decided by Afghan law.

“Where did the crash occur?” Prince said. “Afghanistan.”...

good fences make good neighbors
Presidente Jorge has put out a, "Bienvenido, amigos" sign down in Mexico. Cracking down on employers and real I.D. will be the REAL keys to causing attritive repatriation. It will not be easy to force the political will, even though 70%+ of Americans want the result. All we need to do is enforce EXISTING laws. Both Az. and Ok. are seeing an exodus after new state laws took effect.

Many pols have been bought and paid for by the Reconquista lobby ilk, and mainly by the miscreant employer/Chamber lobbies who bray the disingenuous drivel about "America must have that cheap labor to do those jobs Americans won't do."

HOGWASH- Americans simply expect a living wage to do those jobs! When the govt. makes token show raids on meat plants, etc., Americans return to those jobs immediately. And the ILLEGAL alien employers are NOT saving YOU money-- your hotel room or head of lettuce is no cheaper to YOU.

The above forces of evil are aided and abetted by the PC multicultural cabal, including the remote "elite" MSM, and the scandal-ridden Catholic Church trying to fill those vacant pews with better paying ILLEGALS (they make much more ILLEGALLY in America than in Mexico for the church coffers to pay those choir boy molestation suit settlements).


Keep rattling the cages in Congress so the money flowing from the special interests will seem less special to them. It is easy to reach them at numbersUSA.com with prepared, targeted e-mails... and you can send direct e-mails or call them at their official contact sites and offices right here... BOOKMARK these sites and contact legislators OFTEN and with vigor:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/content/6/3105
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/congress/phone-numbers-an d-mailing-addresses-memb.html
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/congress/your-members-con gress.html

lodestool again harping


Lodestool harps on & on-- full of racial hatred.

Instead of "Good fences," Stool, you could use a little Good Will.


I bet a poll would show
50% (maybe 100%) of Bangladesh or Haiti wants to come to the US if they could, legally or not--the fact is that 50% of Mexico isn't coming to the US nor 50% of the PRC.

Oh and not a real fan of those from the PRC, but I will say, most of those I have met from the PRC have been very friendly to me even if we no doubt have a very different view on Taiwan. But not exactly an advocate for emigration from the PRC to the US


"Why does Japan have essentially zero immigration?"

Because they have this racist, Yamoto-centric ideology and unless they change will be basically the end of Japan in 100 years. You'd like to see the US follow the same path to suicide as Japan? You can become a Japanese citizen though--marry a Japanese and then convince them you are living as a Japanese (whatever that means). A guy from Sweden actually did just this and was elected to the Diet--twice.

China (PRC), well, unless you are a member of one of the 56 recognized ethnic groups of China, you can't ever become a citizen of the PRC--even if you were to marry a PRC citizen. They did make a exception to this for the Indian Hong Kongers, however.

But how many people would want to become citizens of the PRC in the first place?


Dumbnaught
"Only garlic workers" Bullshite! New Orleans Carpenters and construction workers out of work because ofMexican workers. Texas: Sheetrock workers out of work because of Illegal day workers. Texas: construction workers out of work because of same. Really sounds like vegetable harvesters doesn't it? And I take great umbrage at any of these pukes that support illegals in this country calling theirselves "conservatives". More like spineless pukes!!!

How much do ILLEGAL aliens cost us?


Just a few of the myriad and snowballing direct costs...

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.htmlG ALS

Dark Matter
Yes, great, let's return the the racist 1924 National Origins Act, a law that was heavily pushed by the KKK. Sure much better to allow in a guy with a 3rd grade education from Manchester or Dublin and keep out a Ph.D. from Beida or Todai or Kyodai or Tsinghua. As long as the idiots are white, it doesn't matter. Does that make sense to you? You'd fit right in with Hiram Wesley Evans and Madison Grant.

Oh and the 1965 reform wasn't Kennedy's bill, but Emanuel Celler and Philip Hart's. He did strongly support it though.

dreadnaught:
I'm sorry to point this out to you but the only people who start shouting "racist" and so on ARE racists. You are pointing to your own flaws, not pointing out the flaws of others. You should really work on that.

Bye, all.

How much do ILLEGALS cost us? (Part. 2)


8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for welfare & social services by American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. Illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to create a huge additional crime problem in the US.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our southern border; also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from terrorist countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U.S. from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report...
http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.
http://www.rense.co m/general75/niht.htm

14. “The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States.”
http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html

Still sound like "cheap" labor to you?!

45caliber
It depends. When you have a law that bans basically the entire planet that is inhabited by non-whites yet allows basically unrestricted immigration from those inhabited by whites (for some reason Italians weren't considered white enough), a law pushed by racists such as Hiram Wesley Evans and Madison Grant, then you can say that is in fact a racist law--oh yes, Evans and Grant were in fact hard core racists.


Numbnautz
No, Just Tomatoes, fruit, and asperagus. Along-side very good "Legal Mexican Workers" A44wipe!

As any good Nazi will tell you
Yeah, Load stool;

Nazis had the same problem in the 1930's or so they said. Pile it on steep; the suckers will believe us.

Then they caught every man woman & kid Jew; sent him to the camps. EASY! No more problems.

It's important to heap those false statistics up and keep sending them. On today's Internet it adds up to Nazi propaganda time 100 ! You know what they said: The Big Lie; tell it all the time; repeat it forever; and soon people accept it as nothing but the TRUTH!

You've got a good handle on that tactic. Toon Hall appreciates it, Load. (Some poor suckers.)

dreadnaught-boy!
dreadnaught-boy, hailing from Mexifornia, no doubt a professional "Chicano" like the Linda Chavez! Too funny!

The problem with dreadnaught and Akagi-boy is.....they can not stay on topic and wander off with silly and irrelevant arguments.

The relevant facts are:

Immigration today is at the high-water mark in this nation's history.

We accept more immigrants than all other nations in the world combined.

A large percentage of "Hispanic" immigrants are in fact, illegal aliens.

Illegal aliens are on average, commiting several misdemeanors and felonies. Identity theft, social security fraud, driving without a license, income tax evasion, voter fraud.

Most illegal aliens are NOT picking crops - most have infiltrated into construction, janitorial, restaurant and other jobs.

Many Mexicans "feel" they have a right to wander back and forth across the southern border. This feeling is enabled by our lack of enforcement. If you have no fear of cheating on your income tax or no fear of getting stopped for speeding, you will likely cheat on your taxes and speed all the time while driving. Human nature.



me and linda say


Me and linda have no more to add; except,

Bring on that Amnesty! Rah!

As for Nessus (sniff!) cry me a river; why not ?
Just don't twist me a twister, Mister. Twist it up your behind; and enjoy!

KKK......
Anyone, especially foreginers who bring up the KKK only show their ignorance and suseptability to the over-blown coverage the KKK has gotten in US public school over the past 25 years or so.

Racism? Slavery? Mexico had slavery until the 1920s! still exists in parts of Asia today. Plus, Asians and Arabs are probably the most racist people on earth, period.

The KKK was a small part of US history. What about the white people that were lynched? Never hear about them, huh? Just the poor blacks and how about the Japanese "Americans" (half of which weren't American citizens) who were interned. What about the German and Italian Americans who were interned. Does the History Channel do specials on them?

Now poor Jose and Maria have La Raza to speak to their tribal pride. They are "discriminated against". Boo-hoo, boo-hoo. You could always move back to your beloved Mexico, where you will be in the majority and thus, not discriminated against, si?

how ignorant can you be?!
from dead-from-the-neck-up:
"It's well-known VA was a slave state until the Civil War. It remains a swarm of white supremacist bigots like you; the only things changed today are... tell me how your TB is getting along? You must've been infected; since you cried those big crocodile tears. Have you caught leprosy yet? Haha!"

[No, but it appears that advanced syphilis may be eroding what is left of deadnut's senile brain.]

*************************************************

I say again, with supporters of ILLEGALS like deadnuts, our argument is SOOO much more compelling and easily made! La Raza ought to reign in this loose-cannon-for-brains!

In recent days, unable to come up with logical arguments, and never with a reputable source for his vacuous assertions, he has predictably facilely resorted to ad hominem calumny about "racism."

He fatuously accuses the cognitively advantaged on Middle America's side of "spewing hate speech," even as he (from Mexifornia no less) hurls random, hackneyed invectives about lynchings and derides the South with other dated pejorations. Virginia and Georgia, e.g., have indeed been plagued with ILLEGALS, so we are too well familiar with the concomitant social pathologies which go with them like PB to jelly.

Someone please be kind and get deadnuts his meds and prunes and tell him it is time for his afternoon nap at the home... he is way over his head trying to debate with the cognitively gifted.

can ILLEGAL aliens be repatriated?

Artful apologia for ILLEGAL aliens by the MSM, the PC ilk, racist/ethnocentric Hispanic lobbyists, and miscreant employer interests suggests that "we cannot deport 12 million," but this is an egregiously disingenuous false choice. First, if the govt. admits to 12 million, they surely know that there are MANY more. We have over 35 million now here who are foreign born, way too many of them ILLEGAL.

The red herring false dilemma subterfuge of the deportation dilemma has been proffered WAY TOO OFTEN. Tough new anti-ILLEGAL enforcement laws (approved with about half of the LEGAL Hispanic vote, I might add) took effect in Az. on Jan. 1. Guess what is happening there? Already, Arizona residents report trucks packed high with belongings heading back home to Mexico. In other states when new laws reverse sanctuary-ilk policies, typically due to citizen outrage over crime rates and social service decimation, ILLEGALS pick up and move like locusts to ravage elsewhere.

We need only reverse the PC, RINO, open border, globalist message with this reality--> America needs/wants ONLY LEGAL, EDUCATED immigrants who can contribute on balance and want to become AMERICANS, NOT the madding crowd of ILLEGAL, ignorant, indigent, culturally disparate who will ineluctably become HUGE net users of government services. Each such family will suck out $1.4 MILLION more in services than taxes paid in a lifetime (Heritage)-- ASSUMING they actually begin paying taxes!

The equation is actually surprisingly straightforward-- no jobs, no freebies, no amnestia-- NO STAY! Vamanos al Mexico, muchachos! Hasta la vista!

the subject of astro-nauht or dreadfull
.............dread naught or dread not.........
Since this guy is full of it and cannot hold a decent conversation, is a racist admittedly and can't stand the sight of white Americans, and since his writing is getting crapppier and crapppier, let's add him to the unappreciated list. Even Roberto alias Roberta is kinder and less mean spirited than this tuurrdd.

Flag him, but leave responses off because you only infuriate him more and give him the right to get personal with his blinding criticisms. He is either paid to bug us or is just a jackazz. Either way IGNORE him and let him die a slow and "solitary" death.
.
.

Immigration
"Immigration today is at the high-water mark in this nation's history."

Untrue. Yes, from pure #s, yes, but not as a percentage of the population and that is the key level of analysis--not simply the pure #s--there are also more Americans in general too.

"We accept more immigrants than all other nations in the world combined."

Again, only if you look at the raw numbers. Canada and Australia among others take in more as a percentage of the population and again this is the key point. Like telling me city a had 50 murders last year doesn't tell me anything unless you can show how that compares to city b--is 50 high or it is low.

"A large percentage of "Hispanic" immigrants are in fact, illegal aliens."

Depends what you consider large I suppose.

"Most illegal aliens are NOT picking crops - most have infiltrated into construction, janitorial, restaurant and other jobs."

So...and the point is?

"Many Mexicans "feel" they have a right to wander back and forth across the southern border. This feeling is enabled by our lack of enforcement."

And this is nothing new as the border area of Texas, New Mexico, etc were often crossed again and again by people and this was the case for decades and decades.

lodestar`s fences make good neighbors
.
No one makes higher fences than Mexicans. (more like walls). They make them from 4 to 10 feet high around practically all homes no matter how humble and put broken glass embedded in cement on top of that except that some use concertina wire or at least barbed wire and in some cases electric fencing above the massive walls they create around their homes.

Even Indians with thatched roof huts/homes build walls before they build the house. The home front is walled and bars are added to gates and driveways. That's just for ordinary middle class citizens. Now the rich and very rich have armed guards and sophisticated alarms and cameras. Go figure what we have coming across the border.
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Sorry Nessey
But when you have people supporting a law that was heavily pushed by the Klan, it is quite fair to bring up the fact that the Klan, its leader Hiram Evans and other racists such as Madison Grant were supporters of the 1924 law.

Oh and as for Germans and Italians being detained, only those that had links to pro-Nazi organizations like the American Bund. The Japanese on the other hand were all rounded up (except those in Hawai'i because they were needed to cut the sugar--less than 2000 were interned out of nearly 150,000) and put in internment camps (the proper name would be concentration camp, but due to the name associated with Nazi extermination camps, people will get the wrong idea if you use this term). Didn't matter how loyal they were, if they were US citizens or not, if you were of Japanese heritage off you go--something twinkie girl seems to have no issue with. And while not all were US citizens, all were legal residents and all protected by the same piece of paper that protects you---the US Constitution.

The SCOTUS ruled in 1943 in Mitsuye Endo v. US that only those whose loyality was in question could be held--thus ruling for many that the internments from 1942 onward were unconstitutional.

And the History Channel has indeed done programs on the American Bund and internments of Germans. 110,000 Japanese and Japanese-Americans were interned. In contrast only 11,000 Germans were and only 1,500 Italians were. It's called scale--the Germans were only 10% of the total and the Italians a little over 1%.


Onceamarine
"They make them from 4 to 10 feet high around practically all homes no matter how humble and put broken glass embedded in cement on top of that except that some use concertina wire."

Doesn't mean much. Taiwan houses have walls around them about the same height--usually about 6 feet or so and the tops are embedded with the pieces of broken glass bottles. The front door of the house (behind the wall or gate) will have a gate that covers the entire door. If you don't have a wall and your house is on the street, your entire front of your house will be covered with a solid sheet of sheet metal (usually with the words in Chinese "don't park in front of the door" which no one seems to be able to read since people do anyway). Every window will be covered in bars, even condos and apartments 10, 15 and 20 storeys up have their windows covered in bars.

The crime rate is actually much lower in Taiwan than the US--but you still have glass, bars and "blast doors."




Oh and Nessey
Please give us a source for this:

"Mexico had slavery until the 1920s."

Cuba and Brazil were the last countries in the Western Hemisphere to end slavery and they did so in 1886 and 1888. Mexico abolished slavery in 1829--one of the main issues leading to Texas' secession from Mexico.

You can say Mexico had de facto slavery, and perhaps that was true, but that was true for the US as well during the share cropping economic system.


lodestar: Good posts, all! But it looks

like we somehow hit some little nerve with ol' dreadnaught... Ha!!!

But, you, eastlake joe, Nessus, and onceamarine, kind of showed dreadnaught the door... Probably to Mexico!

What a great give away.. "Me and linda have no more to add; except, Bring on that Amnesty! Rah!"

OBVIOUSLY, dreadnaught did NOT do well in his ESL class, for which the kind residents of CA paid. :-)

On second thought, it was probably a BIG nerve we hit. :-)

debunking immigration mythology
Subject: lies, dammed lies, and statistics
re:


Australia is actually VERY picky about who can emigrate there; one has to prove assets and income to support an application. Furthermore, it is an island nation, so there are no border-crashers. Canada gets few Hispanic ILLEGALS, but they are not warmly received. Funniest of all, Mexico is pretty much brutal toward the sometimes even more wretched Hispanics who come in from their southern border.

Our government now admits that over 37 million here in America are foreign born. Too many among them are here ILLEGALLY-- far and away the highest total in history. It is artful dodging/dissembling to speak of a higher percentage of immigrants back around 1920-- and THEY came LEGALLY, with a clear intent to assimilate (unlike today's willfully culturally disparate ILLEGALS), and to a very different America socio-economically.

Over 70% of Americans CLEARLY want this egregious pandemic ILLEGAL alien onslaught stopped and reversed attritively.

http://immigrationcounters.com/
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/cur rent_events/immigration/immigration_history
http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_illegal_immigrati on_american_infrastructure.html

(See part II just below for further discussion)

Akagi
.
You seem intent upon rejecting All arguments.

It would appear that if this column was about how great it is to have so many immigrants, and there aren't enough, and we should have even more especially from Asian countries, you would still argue, wouldn't you. Go figure..

Have a nice day Akagi, and spend your time looking for data that belies your attempt at a claim of superiority and knowledge above and beyond all others. You are well versed but not that well. It's called "Can't see the woods for the trees". You know that one don't you.??.

Now for your well tuned comeback, right.??.
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debunking immigration myths-- part 2

While the percentage of the LEGAL foreign born was high around 1920 after a big wave of LEGAL immigration, the nature of America vis-a-vis the new immigrants was MUCH different. We were still largely agrarian-based, so even the ignorant poor could live off the land to a degree. The LEGAL immigrants then entered a nation expecting them to assimilate and embrace becoming an American, which they readily did. Families still took pride in heritage, but an ocean severed umbilical ties to other nation loyalties.

Today's modern service economy has relatively few true jobs where physical labor without language skills are available, which explains why ILLEGAL aliens take jobs in construction, housekeeping, landscaping services and food processing, though they predominate in none among those-- yet. The ignorant, culturally disparate have almost NO chance of bettering themselves, but they have HIGH odds of devolving into social pathologies including, inexorably, welfare dependence.

More important still, there was no welfare state for the indigent immigrant in 1920 to glom onto. ILLEGAL alien muchachas today are told by the corrupt Mexican govt. before they crash the border to be sure to push out an "anchor baby" ASAP so they can get in the welfare line, and to send back those $ billions back home. They are literally taught how to milk the American welfare/social service system by the Mexican government.

Yessir, as dual-citizen Smilin Juan Hernandez (who now works for Amnesty Juan McQuisling) keeps assuring us, "Mexico is our friend!" I know that I feel better, now! With "friends" like Mexico, we need no enemies!

Easy to say
"and THEY came LEGALLY, with a clear intent to assimilate (unlike today's willfully culturally disparate ILLEGALS), and to a very different America socio-economically."

Well, that was bno hard trick since outside of the Chinese and Japanese, there were no restrictions on anyone until 1924. And for most Europeans, the national origins quotas were so high as to be basically unrestricted immigration.

Immigrants today are in fact assimilating just as those that came before them. Many of the illegals aren't immigrants, they have no intention of staying in the US long term, but simply here to earn money. Like say English teachers in Japan from the US--how American English teachers do you think assimilate in Japan?

"one has to prove assets and income to support an application."

And you have to do the same when you apply for your immigrant visa to the US.

"Our government now admits that over 37 million here in America are foreign born."

So what? And who cares. They could be born on Mars for all I care.

"It would appear that if this column was about how great it is to have so many immigrants, and there aren't enough, and we should have even more especially from Asian countries, you would still argue, wouldn't you. Go figure."

And you'd be 100% dead wrong.



debate about assimilation
Here is a recent article, with many others referenced, which tries to address assimilation rates:

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_53.htm

A key problem here is that ILLEGAL aliens are NOT even supposed to assimilate-- they are supposed to LEAVE.

If you study the conflicting arguments, it becomes clear that there are smoke signals that many ILLEGALS are remaining willfully culturally disparate, which is aided and abetted by PC policies like bilingual "education" (pardon the oxymoron).

While some on the pro-ILLEGAL side say that groups on Middle America's side who study these matters like like C.I.S., the Heritage Foundation and numbersUSA gather data selectively in opposition to unbridled immigration, goodness knows that the CFR/globalist/NWO/open border groups such as the Cato Institute (see column here), the Chamber lobbies, the Catholic Church (seeking new butts for the pews following the myriad sexual abuse scandals) and the pan-Mexican racist Hispanic advocates like La Raza and LULAC all egregiously distort data to their ulterior, and often nefariously and ILLEGALLY self-serving, ends.

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/
http://www.cis.org/
http://www.heritage.org/research/immigration/


low-hangin' fruit to refute
re:
"Many of the illegals aren't immigrants, they have no intention of staying in the US long term, but simply here to earn money. Like say English teachers in Japan from the US--how American English teachers do you think assimilate in Japan"

Funny you should mention English teachers recruited from the U.S. (at very high salaries)... you have chided us here for being ethnocentric/Amerocentric, yet around the world parents think it is ESSENTIAL

Conservatives Or RINO'S?
I don't believe any self-respecting conservative wants open borders.No country can survive without it's sovereignty intact.

What is wrong with these people? Most open borders elites are probably CFR members.Striving for the One World Government. But we peons are fighting a losing battle.


Well
"Funny you should mention English teachers recruited from the U.S..."

And some are basically flotsam of the English speaking world. Some in fact are pediphiles like John Carr who was teaching in Thailand.

Again, the question remains, they are there to provide a service (in theory) to teach English (again in theory--how well they do this is a point of debate) just as Mexicans are here to pick fruit or put down pine straw or hang dry wall, whatever.

They are here to work, earn money and return to the US, not to immigrate, just as the English teachers or American employees of UPS, etc aren't there to immigrate. How many Americans assimilate into Taiwan or Japanese culture.

Very few is the answer.

Correction, Lodestar
"meant return to their home country."

Oh and as for high pay, I guess it depends on what you consider high pay--$15-20 or so.

So if you could get the same hours that a person working full-time in the US would work, $41,000, but of course few get close to that number of hours.


A little humility, please !
It is always amusing to read the emotional rants of people who think they have a monopoly on historical or statistical knowledge. It is also revealing of their own nature when they accuse others of being "racist", simply because those others insist that the law should be enforced. Does anyone in their right mind really believe that ONLY whites/Anglos are capable of racism? Some of the most racist people I have ever met have been young black and hispanic men, as well as upper-class Brazilians and Argentinians.
"Dreadnaught" is perfectly free to insinuate that I am foolish for quoting the statistics I mentioned. However, they are not my statistics. They are statistics that were reported by some of the major cable news networks. The networks claimed that those statistics were based on information that they had received from various state government law enforcement agencies dealing with criminal records. "Dreadnaught" claims those statistics are false, without offering any alternative statistical sources . . . which can be verified . . . that categorically disprove the claims made several times by the MSM. Are ALL the people at CNN, FOX, MSNBC, etc. liars or fools? Are the criminal statistics bureaus of various state governments ALL liars? I have a degree in history. I understand how statistics can be abused. I have not yet found any non-partisan OBJECTIVE sources which have disproved the sources I quoted, even though I have searched. I am always willing to be persuaded otherwise, IF someone can give me truly dependable and verifiable sources, as well as the methodology used to gather the data. As for the claim that illegals who commit felonies are ALWAYS deported without being prosecuted . . . . I was raised in California and lived in Texas. I know, from personal observation over many years in both of those states, that claim is simply not true.

redo... sorry, computer spazz
low-hangin' fruit to refute
re:
"Many of the illegals aren't immigrants, they have no intention of staying in the US long term, but simply here to earn money. Like say English teachers in Japan from the US--how American English teachers do you think assimilate in Japan"

Funny you should mention English teachers recruited from the U.S. (at very high salaries)... you have chided us here for being ethnocentric/Amerocentric, yet around the world parents think it is ESSENTIAL-- 90% even in Mexico think so:

One question in the (respected) Pew survey asked respondents to agree or disagree with the statement "Children need to learn English to succeed in the world today." Many nations showed almost unanimous agreement on the importance of learning English. Examples include Vietnam, 98 percent; Indonesia, 96
percent; Germany and South Africa, 95 percent; India, 93 percent; China and the Philippines, 92 percent; Honduras, Japan, Nigeria, and Uganda, 91 percent; and France, Mexico, and Ukraine, 90 percent.

http://www.worldandi.com/newhome/public/2003/december/cipub 2.asp
__________________________
re:

"Our government now admits that over 37 million here in America are foreign born."

Akagi retort:
So what? And who cares. They could be born on Mars for all I care.

response:
Yes, but you are an Anglophobe who rants routinely here that Middle Americans are not more interested in issues in Taiwan or Seoul... but THIS is our home, and like it or not, America is where most would like to come.

responses...
re:
"How many Americans assimilate into Taiwan or Japanese culture.

Very few is the answer."

response:
res ipsa loquitur... why assimilate where they do not want you culturally anyway--> a good lesson for ILLEGALS, especially.

America is EASILY the most diverse nation socio-ethnically already... BUT its unique success has axiomatically ALWAYS been based on those coming here as immigrants ,learning English and becoming Americans.

A signal difference about the 80%+ who are here ILLEGALLY and Hispanic today is that they are indeed maintaining close ties to their countries of origin and many remain willfully disparate culturally... you cannot at once say they intend to return home but that they are also assimilating into a productive socio-economic matrix. The English teachers in Japan are INDUBITABLY there temporarily AND have no desire to stay... America is a far better place to return to.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

more obfuscatory random tangent anglophobia:

"And some are basically flotsam of the English speaking world. Some in fact are pediphiles (sic) like John Carr who was teaching in Thailand.""

Reply # 95 Is Typical Doubletalk
It's not the one crime committed by one illegal .... it's the 2,000 innocent Americans who are murdered every year by illegal alien invaders. It's the drug dealers, thugs, murderers, rapists, cop killers and child molesters.

It's the bankruptcy of hospitals and school districts.

It's the $30.000 per year that American taxpayers give to each illegal alien family.

Your racist attempt to lighten the load by shifting anger toward Middle-Eastern killers won't work but your implication to vent anger towards both equally is right on.

Bring on as many LEGAL applicants as we can assimilate but the illegals need to get the hell out of here.

Your biblical reference to judgment brings to mind a saying oft repeated in 'Nam: "Kill them all...let God sort 'em out.".

It's time to initiate napalm airstrikes on the border.

BillInOrlando: WELL SAID! EXCELLENT!

"Bring on as many LEGAL applicants as we can assimilate but the illegals need to get the hell out of here."

It is beyond me that some people can't understand that concept.

My mother was a LEGAL immigrant, so for anyone to call me a racist or a bigot or anit immigration is just FOOLISH and IGNORANT!


Anne
Was away for awhile, Daughter doing internet Advanced algabra class. I only tried to serve some truths up to match Numbnautz dreams. I think him and Linda are one and the same person, if you get my drift. Three cards shy of a full deck. I didn't streach the truth when I said I picked tomatoes,fruit and asparagus along-side some of the best people I ever met.. legal immigrants from Mexico. They worked hard form sun-up to past sun-down and partied just as hard. Loved their music and played it well. If you were a friend, you could ask anything of them and get it and you never had to watch your back as long as they were around. They though, would tell me themselves that they didn't like the "wetbacks" as they called them because they made them look bad to others and caused them all kinds of problems.

Response #'s Have Changed
Sorry.........My comment at 8:52 PM referred to #95 but the #'s are changing. The reference was to the comment by joecr at 11:09 AM. I hope it makes more sense now.

Joe cr
Sorry bill I gotta wade in here too. You said what the answer was not and I agree with you, but the answer is also not unfettered immigration either. If we allow that, we are going to become the starving ones looking to make a living. There is a finite number of jobs in this country at any given time. Allowing a million per year or more will overbalance the books to the point that the natural born citizens are going to be unemployed and I don't think even you want to bring that on anyone here.

eastlake: Advanced algebra? Huh! I'm

still healing from wounds sustained just trying to get through algebra 101! (Just so you know, there is something inherently WRONG combining numbers and letters!)

I don't doubt one word that you shared. You are not the first person I've heard say that exact thing. And, I truly believe that many of our (American) youth could learn a lot from some of the legal immigrants about hard work, honesty and integrity.

I've also heard that "they didn't like the 'wetbacks' as they called them because they made them look bad to others and caused them all kinds of problems."

I may be projecting just a little.. assuming that other believe as I do... but here goes...

It makes no difference to me if someone is a CITIZEN or a LEGAL RESIDENT, I get just a tad resentful of anyone who makes life more difficult for those who belong here.

Tell your daughter good luck on her advanced algebra, but under NO CIRCUMSTANCES is she to ask me for help! :-)

Anne
this is from the daughter...
are you sure? im just as stuck on it as the next person.

Anne and all
Good night and God Bless!

excuse me, anne


I was out for a while because, unlike some of us here, I have a life. While I was gone, you and Load of Stool seem to think I was carried away on a stretcher? Sorry to disappoint you.

The label I pinned on YOU is the "nerve" getting touched today; and Hell. who can blame you for reacting with hurt at being pointed out-- You're racists. The label STICKS. Your nerve stings.

To answer another poster here; I wasn't saying you're white supremacists and racially prejudiced for having demanded our LAWS be enforced.

I'm on recorrd saying myself-- enforce border laws. Require documents from anyone asking for work. (Racial profiling be damned. A Mexican national must show his Green Card or citizenship paper. If he's here illegal, deport him.

Therefore, it's dishonest of you Boo birds to declare me a lover of illegal immigrants. I support the law.

So does John McCain; and the same nitwits here, hate HIM, for what?

For suggesting a conditional amnesty in this "12 million" outsiders BS. For this you hate him and hate me.

Well; he's right. And WHO hates McCain? The same people who hate Mexicans. People like YOU, who drream up horrific reasons like leprosy. Like disease.

I'm appalled at anybody who'd use such evil accusations at the poor. At good folks who are desperate for a chance to better themselves. To refer to them as LEPERS. You guys are despicable here, all day long every day.

I stand by everything I'm saying. We have heartless RACISTS posting in this thread. It's not the law bothers you. It's the ethnic nobody who speaks Spanish. Whose country you call evil and corrupt. Whose heritage is only scum in your eyes. Not just you, Anne. Lodestar and one or two others. You don't deserve to call yourselves Americans.

Okay here's my racist rant...
Okay here's my racist rant...

Mexicans being brown is as much a crock of caca as the Germans being Arian...

They were white Conquistadors...

I'd like to conjure up a few Conquistadors and and tell them their grandchildren think they are not white, and watch their response...

then the other racist:


Let's not ignore Nessus; a fathead who posts hatred here as if his country is too good for a dirty Mexican.


He calls Linda Chavez a prostitute in these pages; but do any of you tell him to knock it off?

Supposing Dreadnaught came up with the label of prostitute for Anne? Would that make her mad? Sure.

Why's it OK to say that about Linda Chavez; a truly loyal American who happens to say much of what I said. I thought our Constitution gave her the right.

But I guess not-- since she's of Mexican blood. Any bottle of sh!t is good enough to spread over a Mexican, is that it? Kick em when they're down; they aren't white people.

Oh dreadnaught, how disappointed you're

going to be to find out that I really don't care what you think about me or what label you want to stick on me.

You're an idiot, and I simply don't let insufferably stupid idiots, such as yourself, to impact me or my life. So sorry!

Actually, the more ridiculous labels stupid people, such as you, a true reprobate, stick on me, the more I know I'm right... ethically, morally, and legally.

But, thanks for pointing out just how spot on I am! :-)








Nessus hears you, Ann


Hey, Nessus-- It's OK to call Linda Chavez a prostitute; Anne says. Just keep on spreading the hatred; Anne approved.

What a hypocrite, dreadnaught...HA HA HA

Such name calling here on Matt Purple's thread, but over on Gile's thread she tries to behave as such the Christian...

dreadnaught is simply a black eye for Christianity...

Nighty-night dreadnaught.. Be sure to say your prayers and ask forgiveness for being such an a$$.

yes, anne-- however--


Looking at your various statements about the dirty Mexicans and then saying what a racist you sound like--

That's not mere name-calling. You needed to be told you're a racist.

And I'm glad you've seen those posts on Giles' articles. I am a sinner; I confess, not a hypocrite, though. What you see is what I am. Honest.

just making sure
DearAnne,

I only ask in order to make sure;

Isn't accusing illegal immigrants of spreading plagues and deadly disease a form of hate speech? Is it racist and demeaning; a sure way of demonizing human beings? Just because they're defenseless and can't answer back at you?


And when a man from the safety of his computer keyboard (he's a coward) defames a lady calling he a paid prostitute; and that lady is a descendent of Mexicans, yet a native-born American;

Isn't that racist hate-speech? Would Nessus call you a prostitute in a world-wide forum, knowing you're an Anglo-American?



reply to: deadnuts


re:
"Isn't accusing illegal immigrants of spreading plagues and deadly disease a form of hate speech? Is it racist and demeaning; a sure way of demonizing human beings? Just because they're defenseless and can't answer back at you?
And when a man from the safety of his computer keyboard (he's a coward) defames a lady calling he (sic) a paid prostitute; and that lady is a descendent (sic) of Mexicans, yet a native-born American"

***********************************************
I'll handle this one... the U.S. Department of Health, among other comparable official entities, says INCONTROVERTIBLY that ILLEGALS are carriers of a number of pernicious contagious disease which had been eliminated in the U.S. to the point where vaccines had been no longer necessary. That is NOT pejorative calumny-- it is probative FACT... and the concomitant socio-economic costs to America are egregious:

http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_illegal_immigrati on_diseases.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43 275
http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/sactestimony082406.html
http://www.cis.org/articles/2007/sacoped121507.html

[part 2 just below]


part 2: quisling pan-Mexican Chavez
ILLEGALS' pandemic violent crime stats alone suggest that ILLEGALS are hardly defenseless... though their mere presence here (typically guilty of multiple felonious affronts) is prima facie indefensible.

As for Linda Chavez, she is a wealthy public figure with an ulterior agenda who feigns to proffer a PC public conscience-- inconvenient reality: she sits on the board of a giant janitorial concern which employs and profits greatly from ILLEGAL aliens, which she never offers as a caveat when promoting acceptance of ILLEGALS. Calling her a prostitute is therefore metaphorically apropos because of her meretricious behavior (seemingly plausible but false or insincere; specious: a meretricious argument) to line her purse... she is as credible as a woman plying her trade on the streets.

Hyperbole that is demonstrably fact-based is not "HATE SPEECH" at all, but it may well be beyond the grasp of weak-minded to grasp and be inconveniently and inexorably correct.

Dead-from the-neck-up-- you would be better served not trying to debate the cognitively gifted with an empty quiver in your cranium. Again, you prattle effluvia with no sources or fact-based statements-- a signature of the PC ilk and the vacuous left.

no, i'll handle lodestool

"I'll handle this one... the U.S. Department of Health, among other comparable official entities, says INCONTROVERTIBLY that ILLEGALS are carriers of a number of pernicious contagious disease which had been eliminated in the U.S. to the point where vaccines had been no longer necessary."


BULLSHXT ! (I'll handle this simpleton.)

No reliable tally is kept on any aspect of illegal immigrants' individual case histories, since they are all underground. If the Health Dept. in fact KNEW all the illegal individuals in our country (WHICH THEY DO NOT) and could identfy all of them; (WHICH THEY CAN'T) a reliable record might be seen with many years of research. It's foolish because they caught seven or eight cases over many years and by computer model are extrapolating what's unseen, that these are scientific results. You'd have to test everybody to be so adamantly sure. Which NOBODY HAS DONE. And nobody can truthfully say some "carriers" didn't contract a disease AFTER entering this country illegally.

It's contrived and corrupt; we all know it as JUNK SCIENCE; so Todestool should sink it in his sphincter-file, and keep it there.





crude lode of stool
Disgusting racial hatred:

"ILLEGALS' pandemic violent crime stats alone suggest that ILLEGALS are hardly defenseless... though their mere presence here (typically guilty of multiple felonious affronts) is prima facie indefensible.

I spit on your stats, Racist moron..

"Calling her a prostitute is therefore metaphorically apropos because of her meretricious behavior (seemingly plausible but false or insincere; specious: a meretricious argument) to line her purse... she is as credible as a woman plying her trade on the streets."

Calling your mother a maggot is just as defensible, considering she raised a degenerate of your stripe. I could easily believe your Mom's a schlut; just as you believe Linda Chavez plies that trade.


"Hyperbole that is demonstrably fact-based is not "HATE SPEECH" at all, but it may well be beyond the grasp of weak-minded to grasp and be inconveniently and inexorably correct."

In fact you left out the only demonstrable facts; that Mexicans are all fair game in your mind, since you're demonstrably a racist. What other kind of speech can we find in your posts but plain hate speech ? You even hate Linda Chavez, an American who never interfered with you; her only offense is being Mexican.

Your self-serving BS about how cognitively gifted you are is truly a leftist characteristic. Democrats all think they're brilliant.

Keith Olbermann has nothing on you. And you lamely say Im liberal? It's apparent you're stupid; but why call attention to your "gifts" of dubious substance? Lame-brain!


reply to: deadnuts
dead-from-the-neck-up:

You seem to have a scatological obsession, which helps explain your anal-expulsive perspective and demeanor... maybe the home has served too many prunes... and ask the M.Deities for some more palliative anti-delusional meds.

Once again, no facts or reference sources from you... just vituperative vitriol and random, fatuous ad hominem calumny-- attack the person when you have no prayer of defeating his argument...

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
-- John Adams

***********************************************

Again, on behalf of the substantial Middle American majority (70%+) thanks for helping support our side with the vacuity/lameness of your defenses of ILLEGAL aliens. Most conscientious Americans simply want to see EXISTING laws enforced and LEGAL immigration of the educated and skilled who can truly make net positive contributions socio-economically to America, unlike the teeming multitude of ignorant indigent with their myriad concomitant social pathologies who arrive as crime stats in the making and nascent welfare seekers.

No other advanced country tolerates what your ilk brays for.

threw out his verbal abuse
Never looked, just threw out the racist's mucus dribble; look at his BS:

"On behalf of the substantial Middle American majority (70%+) thanks for helping support our side with the vacuity/lameness of

"your defenses of ILLEGAL aliens."

****Look again, mucus lode. I haven't defended illegal immigrants. I support our laws. Nevertheless, to me AMNESTY seems logical enough. YOU of course are brain-dead. You hate Mexicans so much you'll destoy your own country rather than live in peace with Mexicans.

Here's more ordure of racist obsessive syndrome:

"Most conscientious Americans simply want to see EXISTING laws enforced and LEGAL immigration of the educated and skilled who can truly make net positive contributions socio-economically to America,"

One positive statement after 88 racist ones. Stool got cognitive.

"unlike the teeming multitude of ignorant indigent with their myriad concomitant social pathologies,"

Back to the usual racist daggers. Ho-hum.

"who arrive as crime stats in the making and nascent welfare seekers."

***Another white supremacist assumption based on--what?***

****Racial hatred.****

"No other advanced country tolerates what your ilk brays for."

Tell us about "other countries," Goofy. I've been in countries where they'd cut off your little test-likeculls just for your ugliness. Like England & France, like Australia, where the police don't go into certain neighborhoods. You've never seen anything. But you talk a good game. PHONY.

in case you just dropped in...
Presidente Jorge has put out a, "Bienvenido, amigos" sign down on the border. It will not be easy to force the political will against the powerful Conspiracy Of Evil, even though > 70%+ of Americans want the result. All we need to do is enforce EXISTING laws. Both Az. and Ok. are seeing an exodus after new state laws took effect.

Many pols have been bought and paid for by the Reconquista lobby ilk, and mainly by the miscreant employer/Chamber lobbies who bray the disingenuous drivel about "America must have that cheap labor to do those jobs Americans won't do."

HOGWASH- Americans simply expect a living wage to do those jobs. When the govt. makes token show raids on meat plants, etc., Americans return to those jobs immediately. And the ILLEGAL alien employers are NOT saving YOU money-- your hotel room or head of lettuce is no cheaper to YOU.

The above forces of evil are aided and abetted by the PC multicultural cabal, including the remote "elite" MSM, and the scandal-ridden Catholic Church trying to fill those vacant pews with better paying ILLEGALS (they make much more ILLEGALLY in America than in Mexico for the church coffers to pay those choir boy molestation suit settlements).

Keep rattling the cages in Congress so the money flowing from the special interests will seem less "special" to them. It is easy to reach them at numbersUSA.com with prepared, targeted e-mails, or you can send direct e-mails or call them at their official contact sites and offices just below... BOOKMARK these sites and contact legislators OFTEN and with vigor... tell them you support the SAVE Act:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/content/6/3105
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/congress/phone-numbers-an d-mailing-addresses-memb.html
http://www.numbers.usa

Goofy, tell us something
Hey, Blowhard,

Who is "Presidente Jorge?" Anybody we should know?

I would advise you to get a blog of your own, advertise, come back here and get paid for your racist editorials. Or; move to Antarctica where there are no illegals for you to hate.

Let's hear it for AMNESTY! As Wolfman Jack said all the time:

Amnesty, Baby! You gonna love it to death!

DITTO post 24 & 23
BillInOrlando:
"Bring on as many LEGAL applicants as we can assimilate but the illegals need to get the hell out of here."

It's called QUOTAS...yes, we only have a limited # of seats available...

what illegals and those proposing amnesty or open borders & the like, forget that too many and they will sink the ship.

dear ha


If over the span of 15-25 years in the illegal alien communities,

We now see roughly 8-10m (estimated) living amid a population of 300 millions; majority of whom are gainfully employed;

the alarm expressed by our citizens is kind of a Chicken Little syndrome: "The sky is falling!"

That's only one opinion. And I agree that we must somehow get a handle on these escalating numbers of law-breaking Mexican immigrants More Border Patrol surveillance and deportations. Repeat offenders ought to face more than a repeated deportations. The answer might be, state prison terms mandatory after the 3nd illegal entry into the U.S.

This would discourage further trips. A LOT.

I'd say that every deportee can be supplied on his way back to Mejico, forms and legal advice (in Spanish) with which he can get in line & pursue his legal immigration; and the fair warning: Don't re-enter illegally because you'll do the mandatory prison term for it --before we deport you the 3rd time. That's nothing too draconian. People understand when it's properly stated by the Immigration authority of our country.

Open Borders
I, too, favor open borders and free markets! The fact is, though, that as long as we have minimum wage laws, mandated benefits and other government imposed costs on businesses in this country the incentive to find cheaper labor will be strong. When people can come into this country and immediately receive "welfare benefits" the labor market place is twice distorted. So the caveat for open borders is to eliminate the welfare state and also allow businesses to hire and fire freely and to pay wages based solely on market dictates, not government mandates.

lost cause of the losers


No, Sir/Madam;

We aren't for "open borders." None of your protests were in the defense of the southern border;

They've been about the demonization of illegal aliens, and the simplistic demand of a few that 12 million established members of American society (illegal ones, nevertheless settled) should be expelled forthwith.

At least try to be honest half the time. Say it proudly, "We don't want Mexicans on our soil who didn't ebter legally." Forget the obvious fact they came to work, not to sponge off you. They can stay and continue to work if some humane wway can be arranged; as long as there are really jobs which they fit.

You may not agree; but more than half our citizenry (it's not all right-wing) see that as a fair solution. You don't rule this country yet.


Open border advocates
None of our politicians are for open borders for altruistic reasons. There is a payoff one way or the other. Votes, power or a lot of cash, or maybe all three. I cannot understand how if Americans commit a felony, they go to jail. If an illegal presents false papers, Steal IDs or SS #, it's okay and for their reward, they get our most precious birthright - citizenship. Hardly fair, but then when it comes to the crime of illegal immigration, the cards are stacked against law-abiding Americans. The only way we'll ever count is to give up our American citizenhip, gain Mexican citizenship and sneak back into the country. Does anyone else find it strange that those in power are willingly handing a superpower over to a third world country? I'd sure rather surrendered to a worthy army that outfought us rather than waving the white flag to hoards of low-skilled, poorly educated people criminals.

I understand your concern, Liz


Yes; if somebody were in fact rewarding illegals for committing crimes; for false papers, steal[ing] IDs or SS #, [and this were] "OK"--

How could I argue with you?

But it's not true. Anyone who's guilty of a felony is clearly disqualified in this grant of amnesty or citizenship. It goes without saying, Liz.

More than half those charges levelelled against an illegal alien who is granted "amnesty" (here in our forum) have no basis in reality; yet all right-wing alarmists swallow the entire pot of propaganda in one gulp.

Next case.

.

illegal destroy unions and american labo
I worked the last Union job in Freeport, Texas at Dow Chemical in 1981. Dow Chemical, the petro-chemcial industry use the non-union contractors to destroy organized labor and now just labor by their use of illegal aliens. Texas has been reduced to a nation of sharcroppers of under paid skilled craftsman who work on the Dow Chemical industry plantation were the illegals have brought back economic slavery over the past 30 years where all of us American's have become negro's because of the mexican nationals. The reason 46 millions have no health care is because they don;t have to in a NAZI RIGHT TO WORK STATES. Wall Streets sold us out during WW2 by siding with Adolf Hitler as well as Mexico, who refused to sell us gas during WW2 who conspired with the Nazi's to invade Texas and the Southwest. Mr Jason Riley and Michail Barone act like Nazi's who believe in economic treason has an excuse for free trade.

nonsense, matthood
We'll see a short section of matthood's demented post. That'll be enough.

"Subject: illegal destroy unions and american labo
I worked the last Union job in Freeport, Texas at Dow Chemical in 1981. Dow Chemical, the petro-chemcial industry use the non-union contractors to destroy organized labor and now just labor by their use of illegal aliens."

QUESTION, Matt:

Are you eligible to get hired by Dow without your union card? YES; therefore you have no jerk-off coming. A level playing field gives YOU as much opportunity as the next guy. It's irrelevant if the other guy is a Mexican national. He qualifies.


"Texas has been reduced to a nation of sharcroppers of under paid skilled craftsman who work on the Dow Chemical industry plantation were the illegals have brought back economic slavery over the past 30 years where all of us American's have become negro's because of the Mexican nationals."

Pardon my saying it;

But how could that ever happen to a nicer guy than an arrogant, racist Texan? Are you a sharecropper today? FINE. Get to work & stop your squawking.

.
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