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Tuesday, April 15, 2008
Mary Katharine Ham :: Townhall.com Columnist
Barack Obama to Rural Voters: I Can’t Believe in You
by Mary Katharine Ham
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Perhaps the greatest lesson to be learned by Democrats from this week’s “bitter” brouhaha is that when you get advice about how to hook rural, white, blue-collar voters from a guy named Mudcat, you’d best listen.

Dave “Mudcat” Saunders—Democratic strategist, bluegrass enthusiast, and general pied piper of the “Bubba vote,” as he calls it—had a little-noticed fight with liberal bloggers back in June 2007 that perfectly presaged this week’s controversy.

“I have bitched and moaned for years about the lack of tolerance in the elitist wing of the Democratic Party, or what I refer to as the ‘Metropolitan Opera Wing.’ These are the people who talk of tolerance but the only true tolerance they ever exhibit is for their own pseudo-intellectual arrogance,” the then-Edwards adviser proclaimed in his typical profanity-peppered prose on Time magazine’s Swampland blog.

The liberal blogosphere, capital of the elitist wing, shot back in predictable, intractable style. MyDD’s Chris Bowers called Mudcat’s post a “work of paranoid genius” while a Daily Kos blogger seemed unclear as to “why the Democratic party should give respectful attention to rural voters (in any region of the country).” In short, Saunders was roundly criticized for deigning to criticize the liberal activist support of the blogosphere in the name of “rural, southern whites.”

Nevermind the fact that those rural whites are the key to Democrats winning back the South, much of the Midwest, and the Great Plains states, and subsequently winning national elections again. Though his electoral record is spotty (see Bob Graham and John Edwards), Mudcat’s call for respect of rural whites is nonetheless important, and has produced results.

When his message has met up with the right candidate who was willing to listen, there were glimmers of hope for the future of the Democratic Party. In 2001, he and other advisers managed to turn the voters of southwest Virginia back into Democrats, fielding Mark Warner, whose pedigree was as effete as John Kerry’s. Mudcat helped the Connecticut native and Harvard-educated millionare cozy up to rural voters by serving up basic respect and a NASCAR sponsorship. The state of Virginia is now more purple than it’s been in quite some time.

Unfortunately for them, Democrats have chosen to follow the advice of another political acolyte with a somewhat less constructive approach. Thomas Frank, author of “What’s the Matter of Kansas?” gave voice to the feelings of another bitter political constituency in 2004: Those with “Redefeat Bush” bumper stickers on their cars and conspiracy theories in their hearts.

Those who woke up on Nov. 8, 2004 and thought, like the headline of a prominent British newspaper, “How can 59,054,087 people be so DUMB?” needed an answer, and they found it in Frank’s bestseller. His thesis was that rural voters had been duped by Republicans into voting against their economic self-interests, and that if they could just be shown the error of their ways, they’d gladly become the big-government labor-loyal proletariat they should be. The fact that the Democratic ticket had looked and acted like a competitive line-up for Monty Python’s Upper-Class Twit of the Year contest had nothing to do with it, of course.

The fact that liberals chose Frank’s handbook for condescension over Mudcat’s more constructive message is telling. It’s a proposal for a fundamental shift in American politics—from a center-right nation to a center-left one—without any movement required on the part of the Democratic Party. It’s a plan built on wooing rural voters by first questioning their sanity, motives, and moral fiber.

To many liberals, views as detestable as conservative ones cannot be explained by anything other than mental illness and ill will, false motives and false consciousness. The “Blame America first” crowd became the “Blame the voter first” crowd, and the relatively sanguine results of 2006 seemed to validate their theory. It’s a political strategy without personal responsibility born of a political philosophy that eschews the same value, and it was always destined to fail.

Obama’s comments about small-town America, delivered to a group of rich liberal donors in San Francisco, were the utterly unsurprising culmination of a electoral plan built on disrespecting the very voters needed for election.

This week, Hillary Clinton gave Obama the critique someone should have given the Democratic Party four years ago. "Instead of looking at himself," when asked about his inability to connect with rural, Pennsylvania voters, "he blamed them,” Clinton said.

The failure of the Democratic Party to take responsibility for its own electoral failures is perhaps a perfectly natural intellectual offshoot of a political philosophy that requires no one to take responsibility in their own lives, but it lies at the heart of Democrats’ problem with rural voters.

As a 2006 political science study of rural populations showed (and as anyone who’s actually lived in a small town could tell you), the "individualistic ethic and legacy of self- employment and home-ownership inclines them to adopt the self-image of the independent entrepreneur and property owner rather than that of the laborer in need of state regulation and protection .. Republican emphasis on personal effort, limited government and free markets fits comfortably within this self-image" (James G. Gimpel and Kimberly A. Karnes, University of Maryland).

Liberals routinely assume small towns are unfailingly desperate places filled with helpless people largely because they can think of no other explanation for people living in them. They project their own values on those communities, mistake proximity to a sushi bar with quality of life, and assume these people must be waiting for someone to rescue them.

But the man who owns a mechanic’s shop or a contracting business with his wife and raises a family in a house of his own on a decent chunk of land is not looking for the government to rescue him from anything. He has troubles, but he is not helpless; he may lack a Ph.D., but he is not stupid, and the suggestion thereof is not appreciated.

Kansas itself is a perfect example. At the time Frank’s book was written, the state had enjoyed lower unemployment numbers than the rest of the country throughout the '90s and into the 21st century, and reported only 3 percent of its citizens living below the poverty line, as opposed to about 12 percent nationally.

Obama’s messaging has been a smashing success thus far in his campaign, and even has the potential, on its face, to speak to rural whites in a way other Democratic messages have not. He often sounds more positive about the American dream than Edwards and less cynical about the future than Clinton, which could work well if rural whites actually believed what he said.

“I’m asking you to believe,” reads the welcome message for his web site, “Not just in my ability to make change in Washington… I’m asking you to believe in yours.”

But this week he sent the same old Democratic message to rural voters, and they’re listening.

Barack Obama: He can’t believe in you.

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About The Author

Mary Katharine Ham is a contributor to Townhall Magazine.

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Mary Katherine Ham
BULLSEYE!

MKH, Beautifuk AND Conservative!

BE STILL my Beating Heart!

Democrat plan: Demographics
"It’s a [Democrat] plan built on wooing rural voters by first questioning their sanity, motives, and moral fiber."

No. It's a plan based on OUTNUMBERING them.

I read the lefty blogs. They are confident that they can put together a new coalition of blacks, Hispanics (including immigrants), the urban poor, single women, and the college liberals, to reach that magic 51% of the Electoral College to win. Obama is drawing young people to vote in huge numbers, something that's not been true in past elections. There are hundreds of thousands of Ivy League college students walking around and they're all Obama lefties.

Demographically, the Dems are right. They are glomming onto the fastest rising voting blocs: Hispanics and single women. Rural American farmers have been keys to victory in the past. But now they are declining as a percentage of the American electorate.

By the year 2050 or so, white folks will be a minority in America. The Democratic Party will have a lock on America, unless the GOP can find a way to appeal to blacks and Hispanics.

Forty-two years from now

is pretty far in the future to be projecting politics.

You know it's bad when...
Hillary! is blasting someone for being out of touch with the common folks.

This is the bunch that can't shoot straight, unless they're shooting at their own feet. I've never seen so much entertainment in a political campaign.

MKH hubba hubba
This article is dead-on!

The left in this country are nothing but a bunch of pseudo-intellectual elitists who believe average Americans are too stupid to think for themselves and who enjoy the smell of their own flatulence.

Re-defeat communism!

You go, girl!!!
MKH -- LOVED "They project their own values on these communities, mistake proximity to a sushi bar with quality of life..." FANTASTIC use of words. It conveys the highbrow wealthy liberal mind perfectly. Five stars.

Mom in Wisconsin

Well done Hammer.

You would think that they might wake up to the fact that the Democratic party is the one that gave them the first black president as a Southern White Guy.

You would think that they could figure out that they don't really care about any group of people as long as that group thinks they care about them. The D's have taken the black vote for granted, and Obama is going to take the black vote even more for granted than anyone.

This is all wonderful political theater. The only problem is that the principle actors make terrible leaders.

Steve is absolutely correct,
The problem is that the GOP has ceased to be the party patriotic Americans can have hope in. They now pander to every group and constituency. in effect becoming the new liberals.

The Democrats have moved even further left and now occupy the far left world with their European Socialist friends, the place they have been longing to go to.

What is available to those patriotic, freedom loving, leave me alone Americans? The only hope is in the new independent movement, a growing body of citizens fed up with both parties. There could still be a coalition of those folks, conservative minded blacks, hispanics, and asians who would still prefer the original vision of freedom for this great nation that was offered by the founders.

For those who want to remain a nation of free people, built upon the principles of the Declaration and the Constitution, there are choices. I urge you to visit my website, joeolivaforpresident.org and find out more about that.

The bonus is if you don't like my positions on the issues, you will find access to at least a dozen other independent candidates. Unlike the two major parties, the independent movement is coming together to reclaim our inheritance. Check it out, why not? The future of freedom is not with the DEMS or GOP! Thanks, Joe

To Ms. Hamm
When Obama says some things about people that
are a significant part of the population in Pa.
and elsewhere, he is "the elitist wing of the Democratic Party, or what I refer to as the ‘Metropolitan Opera Wing.’ These are the people who talk of tolerance but the only true tolerance they ever exhibit is for their own pseudo-intellectual arrogance,”

****

I have several problems with this statement,
particularly with its assumptions.

First it assumes that the Conservatives are not
elitist. There are the rich conservative elitists who are also "Metropolitan Opera Wing"
elitists or probably closer to the truth "Wall
Street Wing" elistists. Then there are those
who say vile things about welfare moms, illegal
aliens, and others who are just not up to their
particular snuff.

What you do have to give this second group is that they do not even pretend to have any
tolerance for them, but would even suggest that
they are the root of all evil, certainly the
root of all hardship for themselves.

Second - you are wrong to make a general statement that we have tolerance only for our
own kind. We may not like certain groups of
people, or more likely, certain individuals, but
how we feel about them must not intrude on how
we treat them. This is one of the major basic
tenants of liberalism.

Nothing has changed
The dems again demonstrate their hatred for the middle class and middle America. Oh, they hate "rich" conservatives as well, but they need them to fund their socialist hand-outs. The self-anointed elites need their "victim" classes - those sheeple who couldn't survive without the wisdom of the liberal Intelligentsia, and the middle class wants nothing to do with the libs' grand socialist utopia.

The middle class is an aberration to liberals...self-reliance, a believe in limited government, and a belief in national sovereignty are cancerous to their socialist ideology.

To Ham II
"Liberals routinely assume small towns are unfailingly desperate places filled with helpless people largely because they can think of no other explanation for people living in them. They project their own values on those communities, mistake proximity to a sushi bar with quality of life, and assume these people must be waiting for someone to rescue them."

***

Where do you get this idea? Where in heaven's
name did you pull this out of the air? I come
from a very small town of under 1000.
People live in small towns because they like
small towns. It is also extremely likely that
people in small towns cling to the old more so
than other people. This we tend to find a bit
irritating. A great many of them are hicks.
We do not assume that they wish to be rescued.
We assume that they like where they are and that
they think the way they do because of their
particular makeup that also makes them love small
towns. There are many good things to say about
small towns. But I am glad I am not living one
any more.

virrudh
Spare us the "tolerance" talk. When it comes to dissent, liberals are about as tolerant as Joseph Stalin.

viruddh
You know, the best advantage of using the Internet to communicate is that you can say anything, regardless of how ridiculous it may sound, and not worry about trying to keep a straight face.

"We may not like certain groups of people, or more likely, certain individuals, but how we feel about them must not intrude on how we treat them. This is one of the major basic tenants of liberalism."

Thanks for a good laugh, my nominee for "Lib Line of the Day".

Oops!
Obama must have be shocked to find his remarks taped and leaked.

He thought he was in the company of his elitist buds. Perfect time to show contempt for hard working Americans.


SteveL is Right
About the Dems effort to cobble together a majority by pushing for amnesty and otherwise supporting the mass importation of 3rd world immigrants. If I thought Ted Kennedy far thinking enough I'd attribute his 1965 immigration reform bill to destroying the US via immigration. The Libs/Socialists dream of an America where they make all the decisions for the little people, where they control all the levers of power, all the factors of production and reduce the rest of us to wards of the state. And as long as they push for amnesty and the Stupid Party goes along they might get their wish.
Some day I'll have to support secession from the Liberal half of the country. Its the only way liberty can survive short of armed rebsllion.

Demwits, Elites and other arrogant fools
It is pretty obvious that the Dimwit party and it's minions of all stripes are so arrogant they are just 1 tick short of being insane .

How else can a group of supposedly smart people keep doing the same things expecting different results...every election cycle...and on top of that deny is them and blame some unknown impossible factor for their losses?
...and, Oh by the way, keep wetting on the shoes of the common people of this country and sooner or later they may notice the smell and vote elsewhere from now on.

Out of touch liberals
It seems to me that Obama and Hillary really don't want to be President(God willing they won't be!). They keep making insulting remarks about regular folks and are showing just how out of touch the elitist liberals are with the American people. I hope the American people wake up by election day and realize the liberals would destroy our great nation if elected.

Spot on
This is about as good as it gets MKH.

Absolutely fantastic column.

I would use the term "The Right Stuff" but don't want to be accused of plagiarism.


DerKreiger,

42 years is a long time. Where the body politic will be standing in 42 years ago and there is no way to speculate about such things in more than an imaginary manner.

MKH
That was a great article, the best I think I've read from you so far. Keep it up.

DerKrieger
A few years ago I would of never even considered splitting the country in two....I viewed America as one body and if you cut a body in half.....

Now I'm starting to view the American "body" as simply having a gangrened leg....might be time to amputate before it's too late.

Now for something completely different
"The fact that the Democratic ticket had looked and acted like a competitive line-up for Monty Python’s Upper-Class Twit of the Year contest had nothing to do with it, of course."

ROTFL!

An old saying
Listening to Barak Obama trying to "re-explain" what he meant with regard to his small town bitterness comment, is like the old double talk retort: "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." Now I get it.

Viruddh Validates MKH's article...
While trying to refute it!

""It is also extremely likely that
people in small towns cling to the old more so
than other people. This we tend to find a bit
irritating. A great many of them are hicks.
We do not assume that they wish to be rescued.
We assume that they like where they are and that
they think the way they do because of their
particular makeup that also makes them love small
towns. There are many good things to say about
small towns. But I am glad I am not living one
any more.""


Viruddh, you tried to remain on the "moral high ground" but your second post shows you to be just as much an Elitist as Obama. Of course you're so wrapped up i yoru self righteousness that you fail to notice.

Face it Viruddh, You like most other true believers are so convinced that the God-State is the only way to save theis country that anyone who disagrees with you must be Stupid, "a hick", Bitter, or whatever. In your mind anyone who can't see the beutiful perfection of your socialist utopia must not be thinking clearly.

Elitist Liberal is a Redundancy.

By your own political leanings you are an elitist, since liberals all believe the "Sheeple" need a strong leader to tell them where to squat and fetch.

Icedog
But after we give them their half, can we invade? Pretty please?

Optimistic
Im a bit more optimistic than alot of you here! I think the Democrats could become really successful if they put their efforts into writing comedic scripts......They are loosing millions as they provide fodder for American Comics! They are literally a laughing stock!!! I think a book co-authored by Hillary and Obama " How To Loose An Election, when you were winning," would be a financial windfall! Keep it up Dems your moving another Republican into the White House!

5 stars for sure
Although I've spent most of my life on either the East or West coasts, the term "flyover country" has always bothered me...and I'll bet anything it wasn't coined by a conservative.

I would be really surprised if the majority of people in the West and Midwest choose to vote for a wing of the Democratic party that has made a special point of insulting them over the past 4 years and longer.

Small Towns and People in them
There is no generic "Small Town American", any more than there is a generic "Single Woman" or "Welfare Mother."

My folks just moved from a Small Town in Alabama that is exactly the same as it was in the 1950s except that all the young White people are gone. The town is gracefully fading away and in another 10 years will have pretty much ceased to exist.

I grew up in a couple of small towns outside New York City. One of them was a mafia enclave that began life as a summer bungalow colony, and is now a ghost town. The other started out as a farming community and is now a thriving bedroom satellite of The City (as we always called New York) whose residents commute by train every day to their offices in Manhattan.

These small towns have nothing in common. The Alabama small town was started in the 1600s and is even today populated by the same families who settled it then, or what remains of them (the younger generation having left town when the Civil Rights Act destroyed the public schools.) The two New York towns had nothing in common with the Alabama town (or with each other actually, save that the people who lived in the New York towns wanted to be of New York City but not in it. There was actually a funny song about this by Allan Sherman.)

So unless you actually live in a small town, you don't know about small towns, and unless you live in small towns in diverse places, you only know about the small town you've lived in -- not about small towns in general.

And about those "Single Women"
The stereotypical "Single Woman" the democrats talk about is either a welfare mother or a divorced mother. The average Single Woman tends to be independent, entrepreneurial, and convinced she is being extorted for masses of cash that is going to "care for" women who wear sandals and whose husbands drive Volvos.

Optimistic - cautiously
They are funny but somewhere around 30 to 40 percent of the population thinks they are serious. I went from Hillary is a sure thing to McCain's to lose. I don't for one second think McCain is a lock since I guess he will p.o. a few million people between now and November. Nevertheless, we can enjoy the ebbs and flows of H&O until end of August.

Mary Katherine:
"To many liberals, views as detestable as conservative ones cannot be explained by anything other than mental illness and ill will, false motives and false consciousness."

You forgot to say "stupidity," and I think that's really the crux of it. Liberals will always believe that rural folk are hayseeds and hicks. You can almost hear the snickers: "And I'll bet there's not a decent opera coat or lorgnette among them." It's condescension and not loathing, or maybe some mixture of the two, that causes those long glances down the nose. I expect, however, that something has now flown right up Senator Obama's nose and stuck there.

great submission
The failure of the Democratic Party to take responsibility for its own electoral failures is perhaps a perfectly natural intellectual offshoot of a political philosophy that requires no one to take responsibility in their own lives, but it lies at the heart of Democrats’ problem with rural voters.

Perfect line from the article.

and Jackpine gave an appropriate response to Viruddh. However I say it coming in his first post. I had him pegged as the "not quite" valedictorian of his graduating class. Bitter and sure that he was smarter than all those losers who "kept him down" and couldn't appreciate his greatness; he left "Palooka-Ville" for the allure of the big city where like minded individuals would validate his existence and enlightened perceptions.

He claims to be tolerant while insulting where he sprang from and proves his intolerance by making statements that libs hide in public what they say in private.

liberal elitism at it's worst
The real problem with elitist liberals is they are convinced they know what's right for everybody. They always campaign on the same idea, we know what's best for you and you need only let us run thiungs, make the decision that you are byt intellect incapable of making for yourself. With the elitists it is always the same, trust us even though we have no clue on how to solve anything. But the elitist who visit these threads all act the same. They are always more intelligent and thuis shoul;d be making all the decisions. But their bargain always includes taking up resident on the dims plantation where massa lib will decide how much every producer should pay to reward the losers the libs always embrace. The oblahma is talking of additional billions in new spending that must be funded with new tax increases. The elitist problem remains their inability to trust people to make the decision that are best for their own lives. The oblahma let it slip he is part of the same elitism that blieves the libs should be running everything, their natural superiority shopuld be apparent to all. If yoiu can't inderstand this youy are too busy reading your bible or cleaning your gun to understand what your betters are trying to tell you

GOP: Party of Rural Whites?
the failure of the Democratic Party to win southern/midwestern states in potus elections has more to do with with the Republican Party "southern strategy" of stoking racial divisions between whites and blacks/hispanics more than anything...

republicans tell rural whites:

"If you vote for the democrats the lazy blacks
will still be on welfare and begging for handouts, while the hispanics will continue to
come over the border and infiltrate our towns with their filth, disease and asking for handouts not to mention they want to be citzens. You gonna stand for that? vote republican!!"

Geez, Kat....
...why don't you just write their new spots for 'em!! Eventually the ideo-agnostic hired-help at the DNC is going to start fishing over here for ideas!

Dead-on kiddo. Keep up the good work.

Georgetwin
Please tell me that the second word in the second paragraph of your 12:47 post is a typo, and not a freudian slip...

Totally agree w/Steve L
His comments are spot-on.

Left Angle
Can you give me an example in history where a system of government that controlled more aspects of individuals lives is successful and benevolent.

Dan
Thomas Sowell said it best. "It is painful watching the defenders of Obama tying themselves into knots trying to evade the obvious."

Mudcats column and comments
Interesting comments following mudcat's rant in Time. Lots of name calling and insulting, very little substantive response from lefties to the charge that lefties are elitist.

I suppose... what are they supposed to say? "Your, right, I AM an arrogant prick!"

Nature of the beast
What Obama is spouting is simply the nature of the Moveon/Michael Moore/George Soros/Ted Kennedy/Jimmy Carter/John Kerry/"Reverend" Wright beast. It's about as surprising as witnessing a dog urinating on a fire hydrant. Small town folks know what the elitists think of them. "Country" doesn't mean "stupid"!


Great column, MKH!
One of Mary Katherine's best, in my opinion. I remain constantly amazed that Barack Obama even exists in a presidential election. This guy is so completely unqualified to be POTUS.

He has a virtually non-existent list of accomplishments, he is openly and blatantly the most liberal Senator in the Senate, he participates for 20+ years in a racist church that support black liberation theology -- which is about as unChristian as anything I have seen lately), and although he does splendidly with prepared speeches, he CANNOT talk off the cuff without sticking his foot in his mouth.

Not only is he unqualified to be President, but his astonishing popularity illustrates clearly the lack of intelligence and critical thinking on the parts of the American populace. It's a scary situation.

Small town America is the prize, guys!
Midwest, South, rural New England, the western rural zones, Alaska -- these are actually pretty fast-growing population areas (my town in Alaska was designated as among the top 100 fastest-growing medium-sized towns in America just a few weeks ago). Typically, these areas are populated by moderate conservatives. We can be swayed (I've voted Democrat on rare occasion), but we are not stupid! And, typically, we work for a living, which means we don't want to be treated like urban blacks. I can't speak from personal experience on the whole "bitter because of the loss of manufacturing industry", but I do know my family who used to work in the PNW lumber industry are angry at Obama's words. How dare he treat them like blacks (their words, not mine) who sit on their thumbs and do nothing to improve their lives while blaming outsiders for their woes. Yeah, they're mad that they aren't lumberjacks anymore, but they are working toward something, individually and collectively, that will work instead. Obama blew it BIG TIME with that remark.

Great article---
To MKH, this article is right on the money. Incidently, I now refer to the 3 leading candidates as the BO TRIO. I don't think there is a dime's worth of difference in any of them when it comes to the future of the USA. They all stink.

Obama Exposed
Mary Katherine, this is quite a read. Moreover, it is quite a writ. The more Obama campaigns the more he speaks the truth. Problem is, his surrogates must continue explaining what he meant by what he said which becomes a lie.

We will eventually know who this man is and where he is coming from. He was mentored by a member of the Communist Party USA. He was tutored by Socialist professors in college. He is ministered to by an anti-American, anti-white and anti-Jew, hate spewing preacher.

He and his wife are students of the Marx/Engles Socialist Manifesto. Obama and his wife will continue with their "gaffes" and their minister will not avoid the limelight and 15 minutes of fame.



Polls

Are you guys watching these polls. Don't listen to the media. Obama is melting like the wicked witch of the west.
Hillary is in double digits in Indiana and Pennsylvania. North Carolina he's down 6 points. The national polls which are usually one to two weeks behind the state polls he has dropped 5.5 points.


Obama blamed no one
What Hillary needs to critique is where her campaign went wrong. Why her message isn't being accepted by the voters. How to better handle her finances, and when to pay bills. She needs to critique her over active imagination and the role it played in campaigning on experiences she never had. She needs to critique why she brought Penn on board in the first place and why he is still there in the shadows still helping her campaign. She needs to critique was it that important to throw Ferraro under the bus. Hillary can critique all she wants. It still won't help her failing campaign. Obama said voters cling to religion, guns, frustration and feelings of being bitter. Right. How do voters go to the polls without these things. Who goes to the polls with a blank mind and not knowing why there there. People do cling to religion and gun issues when they go to the polls to vote. These are the values people have. People even vote out of frustration and bitter feelings. In November the Republicans lost the elections because the people were frustrated and bitter about the war in Iraq. Clinging to religion, guns, frustration and being bitter isn't restricted only to the people of Pennsylvania. It seems Obama understands how people votes more then those who attack Obama.

Well Done MKH
.

Jack Savage
"anyone who disagrees with you must be Stupid, "a hick", "

****

Nice try. But hickdom has virtually nothing to
do with politics. Hickdom is a lack of interest
in the sophisticated end of things such as music,
literature, food, wines, art, other types of
culture and so on. The lack thereof in a small
town does not bother them. I suppose in some
way this might affect their politics but I would
think it is not significant.

"By your own political leanings you are an elitist, since liberals all believe "the "Sheeple" need a strong leader to tell them where to squat and fetch. " I cannot
imagine how the first part of that sentence
strings with the second part. But oh well. I
don't really care what you call me or what you
think liberals are.

But for the record, I would think that one of the
very last things that comes to my mind is elitist
when describing liberalism.

Can you spot the difference
between these two statements?

"Religion is the opiate of the masses." - Marx

"Bitter people [in small towns in the Midwest] cling to religion" -Obama

I can't. The more he talks, the more he reveals his neo-Marxist, elitist, race-based views of America. McCain is going to have lots of ammunition in the general election campaign.

Icedog
""We may not like certain groups of people, or more likely, certain individuals, but how we feel about them must not intrude on how we treat them. This is one of the major basic tenants of liberalism."

Thanks for a good laugh, my nominee for "Lib Line of the Day.
***

I kind of suspect you never see the truth even
when it slaps you in the face. I also suspect
that the concept has never entered your mind.

As for your idea of splitting the country in two
I have had that fantasy myself. I keep thinking
- what if the South had won the Civil War and
they would now be their own separate country.
HMMMMM.. But there would be at least one major
problem. Rather than having Mexicans crossing
the border, we would have rednecks. I will take
the Mexicans any day of the week.

Cheers for the Velvet Hammer
I remember hearing that nickname for James Baker. I think we need to apply to MKH. Nothing is more appealing than an attractive, level-headed woman.

Maverick:

I'm not sure anyone in this blog cares about Clinton's problems, so save your keystrokes. The subject of discussion is Obama. He may have some insight into inner-city problems, but given his longtime pastor's rantings, I'm not convinced that Obama has any particular solutions other than blaming other people. Obama, though not (yet) economically elitist, is certainly an intellectual elitist. One of his problems, however, is that he has to be one of dumbest smart people I've ever seen.

viruddh when translated
into english + @sshat.

In the formal it = elite @sshat

hmm
Can it really be the case that this campaign has devolved to such a sorry state that the people care less about what the candidates think about policy and more about what the candidates think about the people's feelings?

I am much more interest about what Obama thinks we should do about the war, health care, social security, monetary policy, taxes, etc., but I most certainly do not care what Obama thinks about my feelings, or whether his thoughts about my feelings (whether he thinks I am bitter, or happy) are correct.

All this hubbub about feelings (how Obama doesn't understand people's feelings), is really making you look like a bunch of sissies

What's the problem
Its not that they think and believe that, it is that they are so arrogantly stubborn and defiant about it. But now that they feel their ascension to control has been ratified by everyone else, including those rural stuck in the mud types, they are all the more justified in what ever the elite decides. And since they have an unapologetic tendency to think they speak for all or an overhauling majority of Americans, well, its settled. That debate too is over - if there ever is over was one.

And lets be clear, what ever it is that those rural people feel is important, want, or decide is really beside the point. The upper echelon of left elitedom is more than capable of deciding for you, what is best for you. Should there be any questions, they are more than happy to tell you.


Political Humor
Obama and his apologists are priceless. I haven't had so much fun laughing at Democrat desperation since that fun night Reagan got his landslide in 1980. At 5:30 Brinkley said its all over folks. Carter had to win three out of these five (purple) states and Reagan has them all. And for the next 4 hours, Dan Rather sweat bullets trying to come up with reasons a "second rate actor with mush for brains" couldn't possibly get elected POTUS. Now i'm laughing as Obama fans try to explain why we are mistaken to form our own opinions, rather than accept theirs. Obama has no attitude towards "typical white person(s)". Riiiiight. Obama never filled out that form, although it was in his handwriting. Suuure, i believe that. Black Liberation Theology has inspired him to unite us all. How wonderful. He spends all his time with the little guy, that's why his words resonate so positively everytime he talks off the cuff. I know the lib elites think Joe Sixpack is stupid, but there is hope he's not totally unconscious. Obama might get elected, and if he does, we'll see Mencken's "good and hard" as never before.

Virrudh
is only an elistist in her own mind. The rest of us just think she's a nincompoop.

virdud
Everytime you post you validate Ham's article. "Redneck hicks don't appreciate music,
literature, food, wines, art, other types of
culture and so on."

You are an elitist as*hole...the sad thing is you were a loser in the country and now your just a loser in the city.

...and by the way, I could play Mozart for a donkey while feeding him Beluga and Cristal...but in the end he would still be a jackass.

Icedog
Lately Obama supporters have been leading lives of noisy desperation. Obama is doing at least one thing i wouldn't have thought possible. He is making McCain look good.

Savage
I have to agree. I wasn't feeling very motivated about the upcoming election cycle, but Obama is ensuring I cast my vote......and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Perhaps...
Maybe if Obama had spent the last 20 years "clinging" to a real pastor and a real church, instead of the hate-mongering racist rabble to which he is inextricably shackled, he might have a better understanding of the values held dear by small town Americans.

Obama vs. small towns
This from a man who has probably never seen a cow (or steer) except at Smith and Wollensky.

for DerKrieger
DerKrieger writes: "SteveL is Right
About the Dems effort to cobble together a majority by pushing for amnesty and otherwise supporting the mass importation of 3rd world immigrants."

Thank you.

See, I actually read the lefty blogs and listen to what they have to say.

They do NOT care to appeal to rural white voters.

It is their fervent hope that they can take power by some artifice and then stick it to rural white voters, whom they regard as savages anyway.

All that stuff Obama is preaching about unity and consensus and things the Red States and Blue States have in common, is just for public consumption. But PRIVATELY, the Left intends to simply do exactly what Karl Rove did: Cobble together a slim 51% majority--even if they win by just one electoral vote--and then proceed to pretend they won a mandate.

icedog
i noticed the virruhdimwit again shows her phoney elitism. These dimwits think their lives are defined by the wines they claim to enjoy, the theater they pretend to know and their vast iontellectual discussions. But how dod you ever have a conversation about anything withsome who is not only a twit but a sanctimonious one at that. My guess is that she hatesa herself for not living the life she pretends to live in her mind. The oblahma shows how the limp wrist wine sipping set views all outside their narrow circle. Better to have friends who you can count on for their authenticity that the vacvuous and vapid phoneys the virruhdimwit things makes life worthwhile.When the angry old crone becomes worm food I wonder if the insects will be impressed that she could tell the difference between a chablis and a merlot. Only those with pretentious lives are impressed by other pretentious people. The virruhdimwits of the world only feel safe with a cop on every corner making sure no one intrudes on their useless lives. Her claims that she welcomes illegals over rednecks points out she probably lived in either a gated community or some totally white enclave where she has no contact with real folks who actually work for a life. Her only contact with illegals or those rednecks she holds in distain is what she has seen on the news. I bet she hates jews and catholics as well as any who aren't the same level of WASP she sounds like

lefty blogs
SteveL is right. my lefty blog of choice is Talking Points Cafe. I was on there today opining about this story, and I dared to point out that if Democrats (my party, by the way) continue to nominate way-left candidates, they will continue to not win elections.

for that pretty obvious statement I was called "an idiot Republican" (have never voted Repub. in my life--YET) and some other nasty things.

one poster lectured me: "Liberalism doesn't mean anything anymore. If you're for abortion and you refuse to wear a flag pin then they consider you a leftist." well...um...yes!

I wish some of you guys had been online to read what these people said. every single one of them gave Obama a pass. they explained what he MEANT to say...they said "Bill Clinton" had moved the party SO FAR RIGHT there had to be a correction (Bill Clinton! Far right!)...they said small town voters WERE bitter, you know, and Obama was just telling the truth. funny how when Gerry Ferraro "tells the truth" she is excoriated as a racist. this is especially funny after Bob Johnson from BET came out and said basically the same thing she did. But he's black, so let's take bets on what Obama's koolaid-drinking fan base starts calling (hint, it start with "Uncle" ;-)

I hate to admit it, being one myself, but I really don't think the Democrats have a clue. they don't understand that most people in this country love this country, and they don't like hearing people diss it. I mean, we have serious problems here now. I think we're in deep doo-doo. but I know we can fix them. I LOVE MY COUNTRY. I always will. and I've been proud of my country since I can remember, thanks, Mrs. Obama.

the "blame-America-first" wing of the party is going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory again. completely tone-deaf.

viruddh writes:
"Rather than having Mexicans crossing
the border, we would have rednecks. I will take
the Mexicans any day of the week."

So, for you, Mexicans are the winner of the Lesser Of Two Evils battle? I do believe you've mangaged to out Obama Obama. Looks like you got frustrated, and the veil slipped. Hicks. Hickdom. Rednecks. You can put the shovel down now.

Ahem, viruddh
Here in the "redneck" Sunny South... We have to contend with the d*mned snowbirds who leave their miserable homes in the rust belt, living out their miserable lives for the winter or settling in the southern precinct of NYC (Florida), where they try to make their neighbors' lives equally as miserable as theirs. Pathetic losers.

The Mexican workers, legal and illegal, who live and toil here have dignity and self-respect, and provide value to the community--much more than can be said for the snowbirds. Go home to your pathetic rust belt...

Thank God spring is almost here!

Three very limited cheers for Obama
He is sounding better and better . . . for the elitist liberal leftwing democrats he truly identifies with. And after listening to part of McCain's speech today, well, McCain is sounding better and better for . . . America and that eclectic undefinable, self reliant, self governing, willing to assume responsibility, truly charitable, mostly willing to be subject to their creator, multi-faceted, multi colored, always changing, defiant of the authority of the undefinable "expert" or a utopian's philosopher king (especially those called Supreme Court Justices), unable to be put in a box, willing to try, to innovate - in politics and in the garage, to get up and try again after failure, to protect the right to be and do all of these things, and if necessary, who are willing to die even for those those who vehemently and violently disagree with them, so those can continue to have that right to disagree, people called Americans.

The "Monty Python" Comparison . . .
. . . is interesting, because that's a show that is vastly preferred by the pseudo-intellectual elites, most notably within the Democrat Party, who view the average person with such contempt and condescension - among them those who nodded in agreement with Obama's aforementioned comments. I've said many times that many "Python" fanatics likewise look down on those who (purportedly) don't "understand" or "get" their "humor" as morally / intellectually inferior.

michigan ruth
Well, that was put rather well. Everything they say (practically) validates it, and they don't realize it even shows. Or others don't much care -- because they will paint you into a minority, until you dubmit that they are right.

The real point though is that they nominate -- call Barack ordained -- the most liberal/left candidate they can and proceed to say he's moderate and appeals to everyone. (those old labels don't apply anymore) The right cannot seem to put up a straight-faced conservative. And before its over they far left will make McCain into Mussolini. The left makes a project out of presenting the most liberal candidates as mainstream - the last couple elections and the candidates in this one reveal it.

Democrats war on rural America
We in rural America get it -- the academics, the bureaucrats, the urban crowd both upscale and with "street cred" despise us. They aren't ambivalent. They hate us.

They hate our plainly expressed love of country. They hate our affection for hunting and firearms. They turn up their noses at our practical, unglamorous jobs ... HVAC tech, auto mechanic, butcher, trucker. They even disdain farmers, the very people who keep them from starving.

Then every four years they come around with their photo ops and their $800 haircuts and hold their noses and pretend they really give a dam* about our lives. We know better. They only want our votes. And all we want from them is to leave us the hell alone.

Urban myths
The notion that Republicans stir up racial animus during campaigns is a myth, as far as I know.
This elitist split is as old s the Republic, I think. Puritans, followed by abolitionists and then temperance crusaders all have projected a know it all busy body attitude.
I think the term fly over country originated in the entertainment industry which is centered in LA and NYC. My ex, a TV director, also derided visitors to the big city as flat land touristers.
These days it is not correct to assume that rural people are stupid, uneducated, or uncultured. The best schools in the country are in Iowa, and it is not uncommon for everyone in a senior class to go on to college.
So, there is a defensive denial in some of this snobbery. States like NY are losing population and will lose reprentation in 2010. Their schools are awful, yet they want to tell everyone else that they are best in education. There are thre rats for every person in NYC, so they denounce the clean, new McMansions they cannot have.
I do not think their Hispanic strategy will work. Hispanics can and do assimilate, and no one wants to be stuck in a minority underclass, if they have a choice.

Robert E. Lee
I agree. There once was a time, which I am old enough to remember, when Joe McCarthy wanted to prosecute Marxists in the government. They were members of the Communist party. The democrats were not up in arms about it simply because they were brothers in idealogy. Now we have Obama. He does not have to carry the card that makes him a member. His ideas so much parallel
Marx, and Marxist philosophy has so grown among the democrats, it would not matter to them whether they carry a membership card or not. Their agenda is moving into the center of the arena and they are using their spin tricks to get it there. It has taken only two generations from McCarthy to get here, from democratic politicians nodding to their forbidden comrades to now with democratic politicians openly embracing most of the essentials of Marx and running for president.

Icedog
"the sad thing is you were a loser in the country and now your just a loser in the city."

***

The sad thing is that you know nothing about what I was like in the country or now when I am in the "city," if you call a town of less than 100,000 a city. But you still feel free to
tell the world who I am . That is so very
typical of both posters and unfortunately
columnists too on this site.

Savage
"Obama and his apologists are priceless. I haven't had so much fun laughing at Democrat desperation since that fun night Reagan got his landslide in 1980."

***

You apparently have your head buried in Town Hall
and Rush Limbaugh. Just as with the Rev. Wright
video, this issue is a blip. Only those who have
faulty sources of information, think this issue is going to make or break Obama. It is the
right wingers who are turning purple trying to make it into something it isn't.

I'll check back with you after the election to
see who is laughing.

SNAFU
You're safe. I don't go to the south in the
winter. Well, that is not exactly true. I go
to the South of France.

Cynewulf
"So, for you, Mexicans are the winner of the Lesser Of Two Evils battle"

***
Don't try to put words in my mouth? You are not
up to the task. My experience with Mexicans is relatively limited, but the experience that I have had has always been positive. I have no
problem with them being here at all, especially
since they were here in the Southwest before we
were.

ct
"is only an elistist in her own mind. The rest of us just think she's a nincompoop."

***

You are wrong, on both accounts. I'm not an
elitist, nor am I a nincompoop.

au contraire, viruddh
Your posts indicate you are guilty on both counts.

Good one MKH
Hit the nail on the head. The only problem is the Republicans don't have a candidate either.

Viruddh...
"Nice try. But hickdom has virtually nothing to
do with politics. Hickdom is a lack of interest
in the sophisticated end of things such as music,
literature, food, wines, art, other types of
culture and so on. The lack thereof in a small
town does not bother them. I suppose in some
way this might affect their politics but I would
think it is not significant."

After hearing what passes for 'music' in cities, I'd prefer to spare my ears! Sophisticated? The neighbor's honking donkey sounds sophisticated in comparison. Food? I can GROW better food than you can buy in your city! Wine? My grandaddy's homemade cider is an improvement over city wines you tout as being sophisticated. Don't even get me started on what passes for 'art' in cities! I live in the country because I don't understand how anybody could stand living in cities unless they had an extremely good paying job requiring them to live there. How do people tolerate being stuck living that close together? Sushi can't hold a candle to a fresh caught fish. (but guess it takes a 'hick' to know this)

Barack Obama favors abortion.
Barack Obama favors abortion. In Detroit, abortion kills more Black babies than all gangbangers combined.

To top off BHOs genocide reputation he sponsored a bill in Illinois to allow late term abortions. Late-term abortions are abortion of a viable fetus; a baby who can survive outside the uterus.

Sometimes late-term abortions are referred to as post-viability abortions; a nicer term for the drive bys to use in their broadcasts and newspapers.

This procedure brings a baby partially out of his mother; then their brain is sucked out; killing a living being.

virruhdimwit
you obviously are some type of figment of someone's imagination. It is harder to imagine that there is anyone with as much contempt for this country and it's citizens than you. We can ridicule your stupidity and hatred for your fellow citizens but you hate everybody and large segments of this country. Your elitism makes you easy to dismiss and dislike but it is probably more wishful thinking on youyr part. I am sure those living in the south are happy not to have to deal with people like you. I again ask the question how can you stand being around yourself. The shrinks say that to like others you must first like yourself. Obviously you are a self hater g

Rednecks, the South, and elitism
Believe it or not, the only bar I have ever been in in the United States with a dirt floor was in New York.

I have met rednecks in New York, California, Illinois, Georgia, South Carolina, Washington State, Maryland, and Florida. I have met rednecks from other States as well.

Redneck is a state of mind and not a regional characteristic. On short, virudd, you may be a redneck. Perhaps you should listen to Jeff Foxworthy and determine your own status.

Since you are an O'Vomit supporter we already know that you are divorced from reality, the only question is, are you a redneck who is divorced from reality?

Wildwest vs Virrudhh
No, wildwest, virruhd is not a self-hater. Like all of the arrogant leftists, it is a self-lover. It's you it hates.

Virrudh revealed
As counterpoint to it's attempts to appear tolerant of conservative - albeit tragically wrong-headed - views, is this post on Michelle Malkin's column:

viruddh writes: Wednesday, April, 16, 2008 2:14 AM
Hey Miss Slanty Eyes
The last time I called you this name, after you had given Obama a ridiculous a nickname, I was
flagged.

So I am going to try it again. I guess what is
good for the columnist is good for the poster,
don't you think.

Revealing, n'est pas?

wildwest
You're obviously one of those unsophisticated and uneducated "rednecks" who aren't enlightened enough to appreciate virdud's wisdom and appreciation for the finer things in life.

I bet you've never even visited Le Louvre or the MET, and I'm confident you would never be capable of grasping the true beauty and artistic value of a cross floating in urine or a picture of the Mother Mary covered in graphic pictures of vaginas.

You're obviously just another, "Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' Cousin-Pokin' Inbred Hillbilly Racist Moron."
(Thanks to "Ace of Spades HQ")


SteveL is Right
Between the hispanics, muslims, and urban brood mares this country is gonna be minority white by 2050. If you want a glimpse of what the future holds take a look at those post colonial hell holes in Africa. Zimbabwe which used to be called Rhodesia now has to import its food because the white farmers were either killed or driven out of the country. South Africa post Apartied has decended into its own form of hell. The illegals coming into this country are reintroducing diseases which 20 or more years ago were non-existant in this country. The open borders there is enough to go around types who celebrate diversity are at the root of the problem. Everyone knows what is going on but the politicains refuse to listen. Dems blame republican business owners and Republicans blame dems who want another victim class to exploit. The fact is both parties are to blame and until small town America, the bitter people, take measures into their own hands this is not gonna stop. Of all the treasures you wish to leave your heirs the most valuable is a great country. If we don't do something no amount of money will buy them that.

Elitist Liberals Can't Spell
MKH: Great column!

Viruddh: "This is one of the major basic
tenants of liberalism." Is this "liberalism" a hotel or a townhouse?

While you're vacationing in the south of France you might want to brush up on your spelling.

Polls
If your interested in poll numbers. Go to American Research Group. Excellent breakdown of groups.

Viruddh - How blind can you be?
Viruddh -
You do a great tap dance. In the last two days, your blogs have been about deflecting the criticism of Barry O's statements. You point the finger and claim I'm not the elitist, Barry isn't the elitist, conservatives are. The columns have been about Barry's statement to people in San Francisco. It's simple did Barry say what he meant and mean what he said? That's what is driving these columns. If he meant what he said, and if you can be honest, then you would realize that his statement is one of disdain for the less educated, blue collar/laborers in our country. His statement reflects a sentiment that the rural people will not vote for him because of ignorance, intolerance (his skin tone), and clinging to days gone by. I hate to tell you, but that is elitism, no matter how you try to spin it. He believes that he knows better how to run peoples lives (universal health care, welfare, ADC, etc.) than they know how to run their own. His statement leads me to the conclusion that he believes that he will be rejected by the rural communities because they are not sophisticated enough, or smart enough to see that he is the answer to their problems or so he thinks. That is the major difference between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives do not want the government running their lives, or taking money from them to give to someone else. Liberals live in the fantasy of Robin Hood. They will take from the rich and give to the poor. Not from their own pockets but from others. It is always easier to spend someone else's money.

Sandra writes


Your article suggest that all the folks in these small towns are doing well. Have you actually travelled around these small/rural towns, spoken to these people and hear what they have to say re. being bitter and angry that their jobs have gone overseas, thanks to free trade supported by Regan, Clintos, Bush,they are suffering because they can't find work, they are having real problems feeding their children, they have no purchasing power, they can't afford gas prices and the list goes on and on. And you claim to speak for them and paint a rosy picture of their lives. Who's out of touch here? This is the same song and dance the Rupublicans have been foisting of these people for decades and they still buy into the bs offered by totally unenlightened people like you. I would recommend that you get out of your ivory tower and go talk to these people. As of right now, you don't speak for them, you're too busy pushing the GOP nonsence. I guess you'll be urging them to sign up to go to Iraq for the next 100 years should McCain get the bid for the WH. What better way to get rid of these forgotten(by both political parties) Americans... let them die!!!

Teflon Coated Obama
TH right wing nuts are desperate to find any so-called "gaffe" by Obama and snarl and snap over it like starving wolves over a piece of red meat.

We will see next Tuesday if this is successfull for the equally desperate Hillary campaign. I confidently predict it will not be. Polls show that people are not fleeing Obama over his relatively accurate observation that when people live all their lives in rural counties watching the small farms and factory jobs disappear they get a little bitter. When good jobs never come back, even after decades of pandering rightwing politicians telling them they are the salt of the earth and the soul of America, they get even more bitter.

He did say it "inartfully" because he thought he was speaking off the recored. Deep in their hearts honest people know he is right. Some people in those communities ARE bitter.

The polls show "inartful straight talk" has not cost him much. Perhaps the inevitible narrowing of Clinton's lead in PA has slowed, but it will pick up on the way to Tuesday. That is the only poll that counts.

What do MKH and Hillary have in common? They both believe they can exploit lower middle class's angst and bitterness to defeat Obama. The problem is there is too much truth in his message. Twisting and distorting it just won't work.

BEST line in the Column!
'The fact that the Democratic ticket had looked and acted like a competitive line-up for Monty Python’s Upper-Class Twit of the Year contest had nothing to do with it, of course.'
==================
Thanks MKH!!! VERY FUNNY. Good column.

Too bad that I agree with those on the thread that say NONE OF THE ABOVE...NEITHER PARTY.

TAKE BACK THE COUNTRY: VOTE INDEPENDENT

Elitism vs arrogant snobbery
I'm with Jonah Goldberg on this one! These people we're referring to as "elites" are anything but elite. They are snobs, pure and simple. I want an elite surgeon! My stockbroker should work for an elite firm! Can we call it like it is? Virrudh exemplifies the notion of snob! (IceDog said it best: ..and by the way, I could play Mozart for a donkey while feeding him Beluga and Cristal...but in the end he would still be a jackass.)

If you really want to know how the libs on TH really think, just tag yourself "IdahoGal!!"

Wedge Issues

MKH and other MSM are good and distorting, manipulalting,fabricating facts..
Senator Obama was responding to a question posed by someone who what heading out to PA to campaign on his behalf. The individual apparently wanted to know what to expect and wondered by 'blue collar' workers were not voting for him. He spoke of wedge issues that is common in small towns and other States he has visited and how the people there are angry and bitter because their jobs have gone overseas and nothing's replaced them. They fell through the Clinton administation, the Bush admnistration, and each successive administration has told them that their comminities will regenerate and they have not.
So they become bitter and angry and hold on to wedge issues, like religion, gun, anti-immigratiom, gay, abortion, anti-trade sentiments etc.to explain their frustration. He then went on to say many would recognize themselves in places as hard hit as PA and other small towns around the country by Nafa, MFN, China. These places are largely ignored by politicans except during an election when these same politicians come around making empty, meaningless promsies that they know they have no intention of fulfilling. I believe this sort of empty pandering would make you bitter as you watched your children move out of State to find employment, and watched as your comminiity(that you love) crumble around you.
These issues, ie guns, religion, gay, abortion ect are the soft issues that they have some control over meaning they can vote pro-life, gun rights, anti-gay rights etc. What is demeaning about speaking to the truth; how is that not understanding what these people are saying; is that not exactly people who have no control over free trade, manufacturing plants closing, small farms being devastated because the gov. gives M$ to big agri-farms at the expense of these small, family owned farms for example vote on?.

Vidruh
do these"basic tenants"-your words--pay rent? or are they just welfare moms?
perhaps if you understood the English language you'd know what a "tenet" is.

STEVEL 1:15PM

.....One way that Republicans can help themselves with black voters is to get behind Star Parker's CURE ...

.....Star is trying to get out a newsletter to 4,000 Conservative Black Church Ministers (about 15% of all black churches) ...to get behind the Republican Party Conservatism ... check out http://www.urbancure.org .....COLOSSUS

The poor and stupid vote for Clinton
An analysis of election results from the Associated Press combined with Census Bureau data illustrates the problem Hillary is up against.

Here is how to sift voters to figure out who the likely winner in the Democratic nomination process will be.

1. If a county is > 20% black it will go Obama and Clinton can write it off (Obama has won 383 such counties to her 70).

2. Otherwise, look further. If the county's high school graduation rate is 78% or less it is packed with less educated voters. It will go Clinton (704 to 89).

3. Otherwise, look further. If the high school graduation rate is > 87% it is a highly educated county. It will go to Obama (185 to 36).

4. Otherwise, we finally get to geography mattering. If the county is in the Northeast or South it will go to Clinton (182 to 79). Interestingly PA is mid Atlantic, not really pure Northest or South.

5. Otherwise, and I beleive this is the case in PA, we are back to income. If 47% of housholds were poor (earned less than $30,000) Clinton will win (52 to 25 counties so far).

6. Otherwise how rural is it? If population density is > 61.5 people per square mile Obama wins (201 counties to 83).

7. Otherwise in rural counties, how bad did Bush beat Kerry is the last chance for Clinton. If Bush won by 16.5% or more Clinton wins (48 to 13).

8. Obama gets the rest of the counties (56 to 35).

No wonder Clinton is losing. She can only count on white, uneducated, poor, rural, folks in counties that went heavily for Bush over Kerry. This is what the statistics say. Does reporting the truth make one an "elitist"?

Regardless, Clinton fans are more likely to vote for McCain than either Clinton or Obama in the general election. It is clear to me that the democrats would be crazy to nominate her over Obama.

Sandpiper & Slacker
Please give me a break.
Both of you mention "good jobs", what exactly is a "Good" job? I read these words all the time and I am wondering exactly what is a "good" job. Is it an office job, that requires good people skills, an ability to communicate, sell, process, schedule, etc..., or is it a dirty factory job, with grease and oil and smoke, is it running a cash register. I'm wondering, what does one need to get a good job? Is it an education, is it a skill or trade? What salary does that education, skill or trade demand? Part of the problem with the bitter statement is that people who have lost their "good" jobs, have not pursued other avenues, you can find work, and if your skill or education leads you to McDonalds, then work until you own one. Liberals live in this utopian fantasy and try to pervert the constitution into claiming that everyone legal and illegal who is in this country is owed the house with the two car garage and white picket fence. Sorry it's not here. I love the fact that liberals want to remove any sign of "God" from our public institutions, and yet cherry pick around one of the premises of darwinism, which is survival of the fitest, natural selection, competition. It is a shame when people lose their jobs, I did, and I'm back in school, working on another degree, my wife and I sacrificed alot, but we are getting their. So, for the "bitter" people who lost their jobs, they need to look because there is work out there, and while it may be uncomfortable for a while, they can do it. Unless of course there liberal or democrat or both, in which case they will wait for the government to do the work for them.

Kimberly
Vitriole? sic. is that a derivative of "vitrine?
maybe vitrine oil?
your vitriol is showing

Dems on rural America
Excellent post. It says so much that I believe about the Democratic leadership and even of the professional Republican pols. They are trapped in their echo chamber cocoon inside the beltway as are their staff and advisors. I often wonder if any of them go out dressed down with an unobtrusive appearance and mix with us common folk. Nah, polls and their advisors input is most likely sufficient for them to feel the pulse of America; the Sam Walton part is not for them. Anyway, how would they get that common smell out of their nostrils if they did that.


Irony of it all
There is an irony here in Hillary condemming Obama for his remarks when she herself plainly identifies more with the "sushi" crowd than with those folks from small towns. Mary's analysis is dead on. I live in a small town and also believe that people here are more of an independent entrepreneural spirit which would be less in tune with current Democratic Party values of having the government do for you. Another irony is that in decades past the national Democrat party did identify itself more with the "common man" as opposed to Republicans who were believed to be more in tune with the upper class. Of course there are elitists in every political movement. This is why I applaud the many voices of the Internet and other media. The "little man" gets more ways to get his message known.

Rich Elitists:
One thing I've noticed is that the rich conservative elitists tend to make no bones about what they are, while the liberal elitists do everything they can to pretend there not.

Slacker
If what Barry said is the truth, why doesn't he just come out and say it. "This what I believe". End of story. Why can't Barry come out and say that his friend and mentor, J. Wright is correct and that he agrees with his sentiments? See I have to call your boy here a liar when he says that he was not aware of the sentiments or anger from his buddy. You want this to go away, but it won't. You want his wifes statements about a "mean" America to go away, and for the first time in her life she is proud of America. This won't go away either. Your boy here keeps putting his foot in it, and "IT" won't go away. Let your boy come out and say "hey", this country sucks and it's only chance to get better is to strip money from the corporations, the wealthy people (excluding liberals), and the gun toting hicks who wouldn't vote for me anyway, because they're all racists.

Wedge issues
Another term I'd like to see go the way of the DoDo bird! What, exactly, is a "wedge" issue???

Again, quoting Jonah Goldberg in 1999:

"Ever since Nixon there's been this whiny drivel about things called "wedge issues." Wedge issues are — now let me get this straight — things people disagree about. Politicians shouldn't use issues that "divide" us, goes the liberal mantra. If that's true, then Lincoln should have run on the issue of how apple pie is tasty."

And:"When talking about wedge issues, the left always really means that politicians shouldn't run on issues that leave them in the minority. For the last three months, every political talk show has offered a nodding-festival over the fact that congressional Democrats don't want to pass anything because they want the do-nothing Congress issue. And yet I have not once heard anyone talk about Democratic wedge issues like gun control. Of course not, because there has never been a liberal wedge issue; when the Left runs on something unpopular — socialized medicine, gay rights, legalizing partial infanticide for instance — it's hailed as leadership."

Thank you, Jonah!



na,na nana, BUSH WON
slacker,
No wonder Clinton is losing. She can only count on white, uneducated, poor, rural, folks in counties that went heavily for Bush over Kerry. This is what the statistics say. Does reporting the truth make one an "elitist"?

Way to go
I forgot to add that I enjoy the way you stand up to Bill O'Reilly. I like him but he can be too much. I met Michelle Malkin last year and she agreed with me about Mr. Bill. Keep telling him the way it is outside of his own media cocoon. He still judges all blogs by the comments; he can’t separate the two since some sites run amok and are habitually discussing. The filters can over compensate and bloggers such as me can’t afford editors.
Have a very nice day.

Amplifying Sandpiper
Obama the politician knew he said it "inartfully." So he started down the "appology for inartful words, what I really meant was" path quickly.

The problem was words that allow Clinton to portray him as thinking the rural, poor, and less educated, in Sandpiper's words,

"hold on to wedge issues, like religion, gun, anti-immigratiom, gay, abortion, anti-trade sentiments etc.to explain their frustration."

Democrats need to stop letting republicans paint a false impression that they think voters hold on to these wedge issues ONLY because they are frustrated economically.

For most voters their positions on these issues are not linked their economic position in life. Their position is based on the culture they are part of, not their socio-economic status. They will tell you emphatically that if they won the lottery, got a large inheritance, or a fantastic new job with great pay, they WOULD NOT ALTER their position on the wedge issues to change one bit. There are plenty of rich, educated republicans in urban areas who agree with their positions, just perhaps not as fervently.

When politicians act as if they beleive such voters only come down on the hard right side of these issues BECAUSE they are poor, dumb or rural the politician sounds "tone deaf." It opens them up to being painted as "elitist" and "out of touch" with the values of these voters.

Hillary knows this as well as McCain and TH right wing nuts and immediately pounced like a tigress to exploit it. However, it won't do her a lot of good because she already owns these voters in the democratic primary. The charge does NOT hurt Obama otherwise. He is not losing ground against her.

In the general election Obama is clearly going to have to work hard to make inroads into this voting bloc against McCain. He is a clever and smart enough politician to do so - if he decides it is essential to his victory.

Maggie,
And your point is ... ?

Listen to the Latest Hate Speech
From the "reverend" Wright, I know exactly where Obama got his snobbish, Populist, Elitist attitude. What a jackanape. And Wright is the biggest hypocrite leading the charge of all the other uber-hypocrites in the elitest rabid Liberal party.

Roy, Think deeper
Its not that simple

He basically DID come out and say "This what I believe" regarding the staement that some voters are frustrated. He just appologized for the WAY he said it not for WHAT he said. End of story.

He WON'T say Wright is correct because he does NOT agree with his sentiments. I agree with you that he is skating on thin ice when he says that he was not aware of all Wrights sentiments. But it doesn't matter.

What matters is what Obama believes. You may sau this is exactly like Wright. The mistake you make is that most people will go by what Obama has said on the record, in books, speeches, etc. If you take the trouble to look it is NOT what Wright is on youtube as ssying. The Obama campaign will make sure everyone knows this by November.

Your mischaracterization of Obama's actual position on the issues shows, however, that your mind is made up and you are not interested in the facts. Just in paraphrasing the inanities of the TH right wing nut talking points.

michigan ruth writes:
michigan ruth writes: Tuesday, April, 15, 2008 11:42 PM
lefty blogs

for that pretty obvious statement I was called "an idiot Republican" (have never voted Repub. in my life--YET) and some other nasty things.
_______________________________________________

Michigan Ruth, I have some good news for you. You are no longer a Dem you are a free thinking Independent!

My point being
You democrats can disrespect the white rural voters all you want. Call them stupid for voting for Bush. That's OK because we Republicans will continue to give them the respect they deserve. Therefore we will continue to get their votes and the democrats will lose again. Na,na,nana we win again. So who is stupid ? God, Guns and love of America wins every time.

Flyover Country
is a term first heard in the 1988 elections. It was used by bi-coastal media elites, East and Left Coast Liberal elites, Academic pointy-headed elites, liberal politicians and liberal political fund raisers to deride the "vast empty wasteland" between California and the Northeast Liberal Utopian Corridor.

I once took a journalism course in the Dark Ages (1975) from a guy who is apparently now back in good graces with the LA Times. He wrote a VERY accurate and none too flattering story of an interview with La Streisand.

He used to say that, except for Chicago there's NOTHING between the coasts except for place to stop and fill your gas tank or get a room for the night. Just a vast cultural wasteland. This is the Metropolitan Opera (which I like actually) Wing of the Democrat Party. I also like sushi and sometimes visit the Met Museum of Art but NEVER MOMA.

My French is deteriorated from speaking it a lot until 30 years ago but I am not a francophile although Nick Sarkozy comes close to a decent French leader. They DO kick our collective butts in energy development with vastly superior nuclear power. Google French nuclear electric plants.

-Ray
NRA Life Member

Mary Catherine Ham, article
First of all Mary we could be cousins, my last
name is Cunningham, (sly hog).
Your article was again very inspiring. I believe
Obama's rise is the third installment of the movie "All The Kings Men." With Obama definitely
being the character. But I also think he most
resembles Robert Redford in the "Canidate." were
he was brought in by the political machine.
I do not give him credit for the "Slick Willy" character.
Like in every Hollywood movie he was created to
play this part. Trouble is the Producers of this
movie didn't check on the Star.

vidruh
"Rather than having Mexicans crossing
the border, we would have rednecks. I will take
the Mexicans any day of the week."

THIS is the best laugh of the day. Do you even live in a border state? You would take illegal Mexicans over American citizens? Why don't you come back and explain this if it was YOUR spouse or child who was murdered by a drunk Mexican who crashed his unlicensed and uninspected rattle trap of a vehicle into theirs on the freeway, then he "ran for the border" to avoid prosecution?

You can HAVE the Mexicans. In fact, take all 2 million of em. YOU feed and house them on YOUR tax dollars.

Roy, you sound bitter
First, to answer your question.... What is a good job? It is any job that you like, that you feel good about doing and look forward to on the majority of your days. It doesn't matter what the pay is. If you feel that way, you will do well and "move up" toward the top of your profession, whatever it is.

But you say,

"It is a shame when people lose their jobs, I did, and I'm back in school, working on another degree..."

Good. My hat is off to you and I am sure you will be successful in your new career.

But pardon me, the rest of your post sounds quite "bitter" to use Obama's word, about other people who lost their jobs, who you think are NOT working as hard as you are to find a new career, BUT are somehow milking an "easy" life out of the "government handouts" they live on.

Maybe so, but is this really true? Among the people you know personally in your community who have lost their jobs how many of them are REALLY just sitting on their butts waiting for government to "do all the work for them"?

If you are in a rural area of America with a strong culture of "values" I will bet dollars to donuts that the number of people you know sitting on their butts for handouts is at or close to zero. The attitude you are trying to foist onto all liberals is more likely to be found in decaying urban cities rather than the heartland of America.

Obama supporters ?
Why are you so worried about Hillary. You seem pretty cocky your guy will be the big winner. So just ignore Hillary.
Could it be your guys really not that smart and has a little problem called diarrhea of the mouth ?

Maggie,
If you would actually read my posts, you would clearly see that I am FAR from disrespecting white rural voters.

I will admit to a bit of hyperbole in the titles of my posts, but I personally am not calling all people who vote for Bush stupid. I know plenty of smart people who voted for Bush once.

I have to say, I do not know many smart people who voted for him twice. Well, that is a little sarcastic, but mostly true.

Anyway, like Roy you do sound a bit "bitter" and just a tad angry.

I am one of those psychic liberals. Here is a prediction. In Obama's second term you will be one of those conservatives who will say "I did NOT vote for Obama in his first term, but I ENTHUSIASTICALLY voted fo his second."

Maggie,
You ask

"Why are you so worried about Hillary. You seem pretty cocky your guy will be the big winner. So just ignore Hillary. Could it be your guys really not that smart ..."

Well, for me, it is that the real campaign needs to be against McCain, not internal squabbles inside the dem party.

There really is not all that much daylight between Obama and Clinton on any important issues. Thus when they fight with each other there is way more heat than light. This benefits McCain, not our eventual nominee.

So we worry, while you have peaceful eqanimity slumbering in the silent peace of knowing that the democrats will continue throwing mud at each other.

Oh well. This psychic liberal predicts that after next Tueseday we will soon see Clinton fall out. In the unlikely event that my vision is wrong and she does get the nomination, I will vote for her in November.



Slacker - It does matter
It is that simple. Barry said what he said. If he believes it to be true, then why apologize? If the words are true, there is no need to rephrase, or sugar coat it. Say what you mean. I believe he did. You said it doesn't matter about his buddy the Dishonorable J. Wright, the black version of the Grand dragon of the KKK.

Can you honestly say, that if a white politician had associated for twenty years, with a bigot like Wright, that this would not be daily news?
The difference is Libs love to circle the wagons, conservatives would have pitched his sorry butt overboard. It will matter, come voting time. Raising taxes, will not help the poor it hurts the poor, because small companies, the little guys who employ a majority in the private sector will cut jobs, when they can't afford the taxes. If the rich are soooo bad, then go to work for a poor guy. Let me know how that works for you.

People don't go into business to give someone a job and benefits. They believe they have a better idea, product, whatever, and they want to make a profit. That is not a bad thing. It is not a bad thing to want to save money that you earn. It is not a bad thing to desire to better yourself. What is a bad thing is to lay around with your hand out and make no effort to improve your position. What is a bad thing is not reading to your children and trying to instill values in your children. You know silly things like "Do onto others". For the Liberal it's "Do onto others, and then run".

Impeach Bush
Hey, Loser -
His words are not being taken out of context. The guy said what he said, and now he is trying to dance his way out of it.

The J. Wright thing, first he said he never heard it, then he said he had heard it but, that isn't how he thinks, then he lectured us white folk on the history of slavery and racism. Pitched his white grandma under the bus, who loved and watched over him, since he be abandoned by his black daddy, and his white mama. This is supposedly a man of conviction and honor.... Please.... So the person who raised him, was this Klan loving, racist pig, who worked at a bank, put food on the table, and a roof over his head and his white trash grandpa's head, and she is the bad guy. This is your man.

Michelle O, "First time in my life that I have been proud of my country".... Out of context? "America is a mean country".... Out of context? Are you kidding?

I hear a lot of contempt and anger coming from this man and the people closest to him.

Sorry, I'm not buying.

Roy,
I did not mean it doesn't matter to YOU. I was saying it does not matter to the majority of voters that Obama said some small town rural voters in economically depressed areas are bitter. If you live in such an area, your posts seem to me evidence he is right.


You must not actually know and interact on a personal level with very many liberals. You seem to have quite a "cartoonish" radio talk show like view of what a liberal is actually like and what they believe.

I am a liberal and LOVE making a profit. My wife and I save a LOT of my salary. Neither of us lays around making no effort to improve our positions in life.

I AGREE with you that people should read to their children and grandchildren (though we might read them different books).

I worked hard to instill character and motivation in my children and there were rough times but we got through them. I made sure they all got at least a college education. Two of them have masters degress. I and am thrilled with alll their successes in the world and the fact that they all have a good shot to exceed what I have achieved in life.

What on earth would make you think I feel differently about the above than you do about core values? Are you being "elitist" or snobbish because I want to vote for Obama?

For the libs
I've got a new post up on diversity and the fly-over intolerance over at my place. You may like it.

If you don't like it, GET OUT!

Obama blew it!
I'm not sure he blew it quite as big as John Kerry did with the "if you don't do well in school, you end up in a war zone" remark, but that's only because he made the flub earlier in the election cycle and while Hillary is still drawing some of his attention away.

I live and work in a working-man's kind of town and Obama lost a lot of supporters here with that remark. Of course, he hasn't lost the liberals and those who feel guilty about not being ethnics, but that was too be expected. It's the moderates who can swing from moderate liberal to moderate conservative depending on how the issues are presented who will win or lose this election for either party. Obama just kicked a lot of moderates who were too busy working two jobs to make up for the loss of the one great paying one to be bitter about the loss of the manufacturing base, but hey, they do have the energy and time to resent an elitist black man for saying they're stuck in neutral when they've been moving the world on a regular basis to keep food on the table. Working people are usually too busy working to spend much time feeling sorry for themselves, but they can certainly feel angry at someone who tells them they should feel sorry for themselves.

Obama shot himself in the foot. Someone pass him more ammunition, please.

Impeach Bush Pinhead
Hey, Pinhead -
For the FIRST TIME in my life.....

If it is the first time, that means she was not proud before.... That is the context....

In North Carolina, she said "America is a Mean Country".... That is the context....

She hung out with the dishonorable J. Wright at the "I hates whitey" Church for twenty years, takes her children there.... Kind of frightening, that you want the Anti-Americans to lead America...

Thanks MKH
Inspired to do a parody on Mudcat Mudcat! (based on Muskrat Love) check it out on my blog!

impeachbush writes:
**I have never heard her say that "America is a mean country." If you have a source for those words I would appreciate having it.**



http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/03/10/080310fa_fact _collins?currentPage=1

Elitist Liberals
For a bunch of people who hate Hillary and Bill so much. You sure do use Bill's playbook alot.
To tell the truth you guys have perfected that playbook.
It's called parsing words. All depends on what the meaning of is,is ? Everyone knows exactly what Obama said and meant. You, Obama and the press can try to spin this. But guess what ?
You're going to find out your assessment of these people being stupid was very, very stupid.

aurorawatcher
Talk about spin masters and elitist distortion.... You are truly the pot calling the kettle "black" (no pun intended).

You say, Obama is an

"elitist black man for saying they're stuck in neutral when they've been moving the world on a regular basis to keep food on the table."

Obama never claimed people were "stuck in neutral". He said they were bitter because politicians for years blaze through making all kinds of promises during election cycles with no results. And to his supporters he was saying he needs to overcome this to win their support.

You and the other TH right wing nuts are spinning like tops when you distort him into saying they are "stuck in neutral."

Try to listen to what people say before you start blathering the right wing talking points.


impeachbush writes:
**IdahoGal: Thanks for the link! Again, her words are always taken out of context. Quote the whole thing or forget it**

Say what? Taken out of context??? I think the context is perfectly clear!

MO: **Folks are just jammed up, and it’s gotten worse over my lifetime. And, doggone it, I’m young. Forty-four!”**

For pity's sake! She went to PRINCETON!!! And it hasn't gotten better in her lifetime???? This is one angry woman - and for the life of me, I really don't understand it. She, of all people, coming from a working class family, should be happy with what she has achieved. I'm not saying she should be static, far from it, but for crying out loud, what is all the whining about????


impeachbush
Thank you for helping to point out the truth to the right wing nuts at TH. I fear you efforts are wasted on the many bigots with minds and eyes closed shut who can't even correctly parse a sentence in plain english.

But you never know. Sometimes people wake up out of comas.

obama mouth,sounds like he's a raciest
Mary i go to show that obama is not making the the mistake that he claimes he does when he makes his stupid remarks, it just his true colors, an what he belive in an trying to get away with insulting people of this nation ,You know if a white person had said the things he's said ,they would have drag that person through the mud so deep that person would never see the light of day,and now the have found out more about obama in his involdment with these radical muslims ,what is wrong with these people of this nation that simlpy adoor obama, are they nuts,,,Mary i tell you that it wory's me that how many of these people that are in this nation that follows and allows to be decived by this NUT,,jop obama, and not care, Mary you are a very brite person ,please keep up the great jop that your doing maybe some of these people will see obama for who he realy is,an the question i want to ask obama a change to what,he states change,his own party is incharge ,is the change he talks about, must mean change for the worst,i would vote for hillary before i would ever vote for him,and i don't like neither one,(that is if i thought if macain didn't have a chance of winning,so please reply Mary

Slacker - Which majority
The right wing nuts at TH? That majority. Your boy Oblama offended a big population. You are hoping that they will be distracted by November and forget, or that they believe that government handouts are the way to go. Do you remember the Dixie Chicks? They offended their audience, and their audience went away. They are gone because they thought they were right and their audience was dumb. Sounds pretty similar right now. My encounter with liberals stems from part time work as a cashier where I was able to hear all about the democrats saving the working man. What a joke. Big mean Oil crushing the consumer. But I thought libs wanted fewer drivers on the road. This our just desserts for being a big mean fat country. We are reaping what we sow. So, either your some jerk driving around in your big SUV, because it's the other guy who should take the bus, or you own a Prius, and you run around lecturing others about our impending doom from man made global warming. Hmmm the weather man doesn't know what will happen tomorrow, but by God he knows that in 10 years we are doomed. When Al Gore, said that back in 1993 what happened. Why are we still here? See liberalism in action. You guys don't know what you want. But by God you are going to tell the rest of us how we should live to make the world a better place...

obama
i think he means country people i dont need you of wont you, your stupid,

Hey, loser Impeach Bush
Hey, I'll take you up on the fact that things are better, just look at Wall Street pinhead. The Dow is higher than it ever was under Clinton. See per the usual liberal tactics, we claim that the economy sucks and the MSM feeds that fantasy, but using the same economic indicators that were used during the Clitonian years (yes, I misspelled it on purpose), The numbers are better under Bush, and that is while running a war and not asking Americans to suck it up, like we did in WWII. So, things are better, get over it. The economy is cyclical, which any turd with half a brain knows, and yes, we are in a downturn. BTW, it is your dumocratic buddies, that fostered up the credit problem. Sorry that people bought more than they could afford. That is not President Bush's fault, that is the individuals responsibility. They signed the paper, their problem. Not the governments. But it was the democrats that insisted lending institutions lighten up on lending policies, thus we got the subprimes going. That was under Slick Willy..

IdahoGal
For context, remember that the Bush/Cheney economic expansion up to the current economic crisis is the first one in modern history where the size of the middle class has decreased and average income of the middle class has not increased.

That "jams" people up.

Dixie Chicks
Roy,this is funny because I just made the same comparison to my husband. I told him the chicks were done. But, those crazy liberals gave them all kinds of awards and had them on every liberal show.
Because conservative do not protest and scream filthy names the chicks thought the crisis had past. Very wrong. We just stopped buying their records and going to their concerts.
Back to Obama. No one will protest his slander and Obama's people will probably think everything has passed. But we will find out Tuesday the 22nd. It's a showdown at the OK corral.

Best read in some time!
This is now on one of my “best threads ever” list. Excellent post MKH! And to all of you commentators with positive insight, SteveL, Icedog, JoeOliva and more, thanks for the fantastic discourse. I'm right with you on the analysis.

In my view Obama didn’t blow anything concerning the rural vote seeing he never really expected much of anything from that demographic anyway. Furthermore, it does indeed show the poorly masked, contemptuous, leftist mindset concerning the individualist philosophy that founded this great nation.

We are charging headlong into a big conflict should these corrupt politicos continue to succeed at spliting us apart.

Democratic attempts
The Democratic Party used to be known as the Party of the Blue-Collar Workers. About 1965 they discovered minority groups (which generally vote as blocks). They immediately decided to add those to their normal blue-collar voters. Unfortunately, the blue-collar voters were expected to provide tax money to buy the votes of the minority groups. Many of the Blue-Collar voters changed to the Republican Party simply due to lack of choice. In 1965 if you didn't vote Democrat in the South, you didn't vote since the Republicans didn't bother to even run anyone except for President here.

Now the Democrats are the Party of (for) the Minorities. They abandoned the blue-collar workers but can't understand why the blue-collar workers left. It has to be stupidity or Republican lies. It can't possibly be due to their own stupidity. So they come up with reasons to blame the blue-collar workers and then condensatingly offer to take them back if they will only see reason! I can understand Obama's comments. Those are the typical response by the Democrats who "run" the Democratic Party.

Roy,
Give me a break:

You say, "My encounter with liberals stems from part time work as a cashier where I was able to hear all about the democrats saving the working man."

Now I fear you are being disingenuous. What do you mean "hear all about" the democrats? I have been in front of a lot of cachiers in my life, but I would never consider having a serious conversation about "saving the working man" with one. I am too busy worrying about being short changed or having those scanners ring up the non-sale price on my stuff and getting the heck out of the store so I can go about my business.

I think you need to go back and re-read all your posts on this thread. You are a picture perfect example of someone so bitter that they don't listen to a word anyone says unless it immediately echos the last thought that popped into their head. Proving Obama's point exactly. And Obama is correct, it will take a lot to get through to such a closed mind.

And, sorry, there is no sane way you can tag liberals with the sub prime mess. That was thought up by the investment bankers, their financial wizards who dreamed up mathematical investment derivatives that abstact and hide risk from the underlying mortgage transactions so they could be sold and re-sold in complex bundles no one really understood. The poor folks losing their homes are collateral damage, not the cause.

One reason I'm conservative
The conservatives are more likely to let me do what I want if I don't try telling them what to do. The liberals are convinced that they know how I should live better than I do so they can have a better life doing what I am told not to do.

slacker
Try working as a cashier.

Maggie, Roy, Dixie Chick Haters
You folks need to check out your facts about the wonderful Dixie Chicks. You parrot the right wing nut baloney about how their careeers were ruined by the good conservative folk of mid America.

The real facts are:

1. They are the highest-selling female band in any musical genre, having sold over 36 million albums as of March 2008.
(accessed 9 March, 2008)RIAA Official Assessment Site

2. In spite of the baloney of rightwing spin masters like you folks at TH. Their current career is booming. Last time they were here in my city they were quickly sold out.

3. Their most current albums continue to be very successful. In 2006, they released the single "Not Ready to Make Nice" in advance of their upcoming album. Despite little airplay, the new album "Taking the Long Way" debuted at NUMBER ONE on both the U.S. pop albums chart and the U.S. COUNTRY albums chart, selling 526,000 copies in the FIRST WEEK. This was the year's second-best such total for any country act. It was a gold record IN THE FIRST WEEK. The Chicks became the first female group in chart history to have three albums debut at #1.

So much for all the right wing lies and baloney about having killed the Dixie Chick's career. Their demise is FAR FROM TRUE.

Here is a word of wisdom from ol' Slacker that will help you think straignt. Investigate the facts before you fall for and start parroting the idiotic pap spouted from talk radio and right wing nuts unthinkingly parroting right wing talking points.

THINK FOR YOURSELF!!!!

45Caliber
Why? Do they pay cashiers to sit around and blather about politics to customers? If so, no wonder so many retailers are having a hard time.


OBAMA - WHY THEY CLING TO THEIR GUNS


.....As John Steinbeck once said:
The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.
1. Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
2. If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
3. I carry a gun cause a cop is too heavy.
4. When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.
5. A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him "Why do you carry a 45?" The Ranger responded, "Because they don't make a 46.
6. An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity.
7. The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented on his wearing his sidearm. "Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you expecting trouble?" "No Ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle."
8. Beware the man who only has one gun. HE PROBABLY KNOWS HOW TO USE IT!!!
But wait, there's more! I was once asked by a lady visiting if I had a gun in the house. I said I did. She said "Well I certainly hope it isn't loaded!" To which I said, of course it is loaded, can't work without bullets!" She then asked, "Are you that afraid of some one evil coming into your house?" My reply was, "No not at all. I am not afraid of the house catching fire either, but I have fire extinguishers around, and they are all loaded too." To which I'll add, having a gun in the house that isn't loaded is like having a car in the garage without gas in the tank. .....COLOSUS



Viruddh writes:
"Don't try to put words in my mouth?"

First, if you're asking me a question, I'm not sure how to answer it. Second, I don't need to put words in your mouth; your own words do a marvelous job of illustrating Ham's point all by themselves. But, to play along:

You said (on 4/15/08, 7:17PM), "Rather than having Mexicans crossing
the border, we would have rednecks. I will take
the Mexicans any day of the week."

To this, I asked (on 4/15/08, 11:48PM), "So, for you, Mexicans are the winner of the Lesser Of Two Evils battle?" Note, that this is a question. A clarifying question, at that. And here's another one: Are you saying that asking you a question is putting words in your mouth?

What you are taking umbrage with is that I have suggested that you view both Mexicans and Red Necks as beneath you. But, who are you kidding? Anyone half-literate knows that the form of comparison that you used only works if both items being compared are viewed with some level of disdain. To illustrate this, we could use dung and diamonds. If you said, "I will take the box of diamonds over the box of dung any day of the week," people would likely answer you with, "no duh!" It's not a comparison worth making. On the other hand, if you said, I'd rather step in dung than step in tar any day of the week," you would now have a comparison worth making. The two items are both viewed with disdain (who would want to step in either of them?), but you make the choice of the lesser of two evils to state if you had to step in one you would prefer the dung. Or, in your example, the Mexicans.

Then you said, "You are not up to the task." You shouldn't project, it makes you look silly.

Slacker - Look in the mirror
You obviously have never worked in retail, you probably have never worked in a factory either, I did production control, and I was shift supervisor in a union shop. I was the "bad" guy, to all the workers. I sat around and did nothing while they toiled away, at least according to them. Cashiers don't stand around and blather, brainic, contrary to your perception that every store opens and thousands run in there is actual time for some conversation and sometimes, believe it or not those mean management people allow us to go to a break room and have our lunch or dinner. And believe it or not some of the people who have this job as their livelyhood express some disdain toward management, toward Republicans, and they state a sense of entitlement. Yes, many of them told me how great it was for the minimum wage to be raised. It is a minimum wage for a reason, it's a supplemental income, not a living wage. And it only works if a business holds all it's cost of goods sold at a static price. So while you are fearing being short changed or screwed by the equipment, did you ever actually look at and acknowledge the little guy that now suddenly you look down upon with your comments.

Please tell me, exactly what do you think B.O. will bring to this country as a President? In a nutshell my perception of libs and democrats is that they want to tell everyone else how to live since they think we are all too stupid to think for ourselves. Who is the elitist?


Viruddh said (Part Two),
"My experience with Mexicans is relatively limited..."

We could stop right there, but let's continue.

"...but the experience that I have had has always been positive. I have no
problem with them being here at all..."

Very big of you. Basically, the few Mexicans you've encountered have left you with positive experiences, so you welcome them with open arms. On the other hand, a segment of the American population has left you with not so positive experiences, so you would rather they not migrate to your location. I'm beginning to see how leftist tolerance works.

Obama hopes
that most rural out-of-work democrats are as stupid as unemployed city democrats and will believe his "bitter" comments were not meant for them personally but for those other gun toting hicks cross the gully, 'hind the bible church and next to the county welfare office.
Good thing Obama's comments didn't include Mom, pick-em-up trucks or keg beer. A country democrat will only take so much afore you'd have to pry his food stamps from his cold dead fingers.



slacker writes:
**For context, remember that the Bush/Cheney economic expansion up to the current economic crisis is the first one in modern history where the size of the middle class has decreased and average income of the middle class has not increased.**

Define middle class, would you? The experts can't agree on what is middle class. Look around you. I don't know how old you are but I'm almost 63. Things have certainly gotten better from my perspective. I'm middle class. My dad barely made it above poverty level. I retired last year with a six figure income and I only have a high school diploma. I worked my way up, starting as a receptionist and ended up an echo tech. I worked hard, went to school at night, raised my two kids and then my brother's two. No time to whine.

And, to ImpeachBush, nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. That she could do what she did should speak to the state of the country and I still don't know why she's whining. If she could do it, anyone could do it.


Viruddh
I don't have a dog in this fight. I was considering voting for Obama as the least known and possibly with a country first agenda. This would have made him a better prez than Hillary or McCain, both of whom are terribly flawed. Alas, With the passage of time, Obama's feet of clay have been exposed well past the knee. No matter who wins, i will not be laughing after this election. As a patriotic American, i hope whoever wins surprises the heck out of me and leads us to peace and prosperity. We'll see. I remember well my Catholic friends who were ecstatic when JFK won. 3 years later he was so unpopular there was some doubt about whether he could win the party's nomination, hence the fateful trip to Dallas. I suggest you keep your cool if Obama wins. There are some baaad problems on the way, and you won't have so much crow to eat if he can't handle them. If he does, i'll vote for his second term myself.

speaking of Obama and
his dumb comments; today another din-a-ling demo was heard from when he 'murthlessly' lampooned John McCain's age. At the news, Cindy McCain clutched her husband's hand a little tighter and grinned...and grinned...and

ImpeachBush, your added context
does not change the meaning of those quotes.

First, the preceding sentance to Obama's Pennsylvania remark, "But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives," doesn't change the meaning of the rest of the quote. It adds to the context of who he's talking to and what goal he is addressing, but the meaning of the remainder of the Pennsylvania quote remains fundamentally unaltered.

You say, "Barack Obama was telling his fundraisers in San Francisco what they have to do to persuade rural voters to believe in Obama's message--he was NOT demeaning or dissing them," but the fact is, he demeaned rural voters while telling his fundraisers what they have to do to persuade rural voters.

Then the added context of: "...NOT because Barack is being successful, but because people are hungry for change!" There may have been some who twisted this to mean that she never had been proud of America until that particular moment or that she was proud because of Barack being successful, but it still doesn't change the fact that she had not been really proud of her country for 26 years until that moment. And that is what most people have a problem with.


ImpeachBush, part 2
"[Michelle] Obama begins with a broad assessment of life in America in 2008, and life is not good: we’re a divided country, we’re a country that is “just downright mean,” we are “guided by fear,” we’re a nation of cynics, sloths, and complacents. “We have become a nation of struggling folks who are barely making it every day,” she said, as heads bobbed in the pews. “Folks are just jammed up, and it’s gotten worse over my lifetime. And, doggone it, I’m young. Forty-four!”

Not one of these extra lines adds or takes away from "we're a country that is 'just downright mean.'" You either agree with that statement or you don't.

I agree with you that context is important, but in these cases, while it adds some good ancillary information, it doesn't change the meaning of the sentences that most people have taken issue with.

Hillary slammed Obama
This is not meant to be racial. Everyone has to be so politically correct. But after watching the debates. I couldn't help but think of a saying grandpa used to say.
"She took that boy to the woodshed."

Barack Likes Marx
"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion …” Barack Hussein Obama

“Religion is the opiate of the masses.” Karl Marx

If you think about it, these statements are very similar. The first one says that people experiencing economic hardship shrink back into their safe little cocoon of religion instead of demanding a more socialist government. The second one is saying that people are stupefied by religion so they don’t demand a more socialist government. Pretty close if you ask me.

IdahoGal - Don't know if u r there but..
... I will answer your question. Maybe you will see it.

I am only slightly younger than you. I have a college degree (but just barely if I am to be honest). I have worked hard all my life though, and earn in the mid 6 figures. I guess that makes both you and me "elitists" because we are both in the top 10% of wage earners in the country Funny, but I don't feel "elite". I doubt that you do either.

When defining middle class, the best way to do it is to divide households into quintiles based on household income. Call the lowest 20% poor. Call the top 20% rich. Call the middle three quintiles lower middle class, middle class, and upper middle class.

When you do this and look at the Bush economic record you find that since 2000:

1) Real (adjusted for inflation) household income DELCINED for the poor (-4.6%), lower middle class (-3.1%), middle class (-2.5%), and upper middle class (-0.7%).

2) Only the top 20% of households have had real income increase (+1.0%).

3) Since 1960, the Bush administration is one of four in which the poverty rate has increased. The other three are Ford, Carter, and GHW Bush. Interestngly, of the four, three are republicans.

http://jec.senate.gov/charts/Bush%20Economic%20Record.html# family

Given such a dismal result it makes no sense to vote for four more years of Bush's failed economic policies. You, I, and others who choose our professions well, work hard, make good decisions, and have a little luck do well in nearly any economy. Political trends are based on what is experienced by the majority of people though. Given the above facts, it is easy to see why people are voting for "change."

Roy,
You are right, I have never worked in retail except for jobs to make ends meet while going to school years ago.

But it does not matter. You are WAY off point. We were discussing supposed "elitist" attitudes of the rich and how their affluence colors the way they look at rural America and other political attitudes.

You bring up the attitudes of minimum wage cashiers toward the minimum wage and unionized shift workers on a shop floor. Please think what you are saying through. The people you are talking about are NOT "elitists" with attitudes about rural America. They ARE the white middle class, lower middle class and poor rural Americans with attitudes that Obama was talking about. And you are just CONFIRMING what he said: They are bitter, unhappy, disillusioned, and have "attitudes".

You may not agree with them, but facts are facts.

Roy
"They will take from the rich and give to the poor. Not from their own pockets but from others."

Of course, idiot, it is from our own pockets.
If we were too dumb to figure that out, we
wouldn't have money. Get a life. Better yet,
find charity in your heart.

I am sick to death of that stupid line.

Savage99
Actually, it is my intention to vote for Hillary
whether she is on the ballot in November or not.
I think she has the guts, the fortitude, and access to the people who can get things done. She is also my hero because of health care.

I just hate to see a good man slandered. If Obama wins, I will be disappointed but I won't cry.

Teacher & Jerseyvet
If you care to read my second post on Miss Slanty
Eyes, it is available.

Phil
From Vidruh - make that Viruddh. Sometimes
spelling mistakes happen. I think that it has
more to do with the quality of the website than
anything else. If it were easier to type here
(you know, with the printed word happening at
the same time as the typing word)it would be
easier to notice the mistakes up front.

But my apologies. I do in fact know the difference.

Hmm. No response from Viruddh.
Disappointing, but not surprising.

YOU ALL HAVENT FIGURED THIS OUT YET?
MCCAIN IS SOUNDING SO WEAK HE'S EVEN HAVING REPUBLICANS THINK HILLARY NOW IS MORE CONSERVATIVE!! WOW! NOT A GOOD THING FOR MCCAIN TO HEAR!

OBAMA? HE THINKS HE HAS A JUMP SHOT BUT WE ALL KNOW "DEFENSE" WINS GAMES! U LIVE BY THE JUMPSHOT YOU DIE BY THE JUMPSHOT!! HILLARY HAS ALREADY BLOCKED HIS SHOT!!

WELL, WELL, WELL!! WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT HILLARY CLINTON WOULD BE THE BEST CANDADATE OUT THERE? NOT ME BUT....SHES NOW LOOKING LIKE THE FRONT RUNNER AND WILL CONTINUE TO KEEP INCREASING HER LEAD!!

OBAMA AND HIS SUPPORTERS DONT KNOW THIS YET BUT HE'S DONE! HE CAN THANK THE PERSON WHO HE USED TO GET WHERE HE'S AT AND BLAME THE SAME MAN FOR RUINING HIS CHANCES!! 2 WORDS "REVEREND WRIGHT"!!

YOU DONT THINK FOR ONE MOMENT "BUYERS REMORSE" HAS SET IN YET? LOL! I FEEL BAD FOR ALL THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED IN THE PRIMARYS FOR HIM AND HAD NO IDEA WHO THIS MAN WAS AND NOW REGRETS IT AND IS PULLING FOR CLINTON NOW BUT CANT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT SINCE THEIR STATE ALREADY VOTED!!

INDIANA GOES TO CLINTON!! ANYBODY OUT THERE THAT THINKS ANY DIFFERENT IS NOT PAYING ATTENTION!! SHE WILL WIN IT AND CONTINUE TO TURN THE TIDE UNTIL ALL POLLS SHOW SHES THE CANDADATE TO RUN UP AGAINST MCCAIN FOR THE GENERAL ELECTION....

SHE IS NOW AHEAD OF MCCAIN ANYWAY AS OF TODAY IF RUNNING AGAINST HIM IN THE GENREAL SO ITS FAIR TO SAY HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT!!

END OF STORY!! ONLY THING IS THIS IS NOT A STORY ITS WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN BUT HAPPEN IN DUE TIME SO NOT TO SEEM LIKE ELECTION WAS STOLEN BY HER OVER OBAMA!! GET IT????? ITS OVER!!

George Jones and the MET
“I have bitched and moaned for years about the lack of tolerance in the elitist wing of the Democratic Party, or what I refer to as the ‘Metropolitan Opera Wing.’"

Ex-squeeze me? I'm a fan, a member, a go-er and a DVD buyer of everything MET. I'm also a southern quasi-redneck, a dittohead, a non-trustfunded George Jones fan whose only major intolerance is that of highfalutin' Clintonistas and Jimmycarter-harvardistas.

Linda
Mary Katharine, nicely done.

GOD LAND UNION
"The failure of the Democratic Party to take responsibility for its own electoral failures is perhaps a perfectly natural intellectual offshoot of a political philosophy that requires no one to take responsibility in their own lives, but it lies at the heart of Democrats’ problem with rural voters," well written.

How do you feel about it now that the tables have turned? Perhaps, the same can be said of us now? We cannot afford to repeat their same mistakes. Let us put aside our differences now and stop the condemnation, criticism, and the complaining. Let us heed George Washington's Admonition and live for God, Land, and Union. Check it out. http://americanvisionary.ning.com/profiles/blogs/george-wa shingtons-admonition
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