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Sunday, May 04, 2008
Mary Grabar :: Townhall.com Columnist
Because They Wouldn't Let Me In Their Club
by Mary Grabar
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In my ignorance, I once held hopes of gaining entrance into a club more exclusive than any country club or nightclub.

Having been educated in public schools and therefore exposed to only one form of thought, I thought this club represented intellectualism.

My first exposure to intellectual thought was a shelf filled with dime store Golden Books. One of the American “ladies” had heard about the cleaning abilities of a Slovenian immigrant woman who was laid off from her job in a factory. So this lady picked my mother and me up and drove us out to her big house in the suburbs. The drive was a special treat for me, for I rarely got car rides; my family would not own a car until I was twelve.

As my mother cleaned upstairs, my eyes caught sight of a shelf, fairly glowing gold in the sunshine streaming through the large picture window. There were dozens of dime store Golden Books lined up! The children that lived here must truly be rich, I thought. My sister and I had one Golden Book between us, Hiawatha and Little Bear, that my father struggled to sound the words from. In later years I realized that he was probably functionally illiterate in his native Slovenian, having only a fourth-grade education. One of nine children, he slept with his brothers in the hayloft because there wasn’t enough bed space in the two-room straw-thatched house. No time could be spent on school when all hands were needed in the fields.

I skipped kindergarten so my mother could work in the factory and longed for the written word. After some catching up, I became a star reader in the first grade.

I also began noticing “class distinctions.” The children whose houses my mother cleaned often made fun of our ways. They mocked our language, my Slovenian-style braids. They made fun of the fact that I wore their older sisters’ hand-me-downs. These children were driven to dance lessons, music lessons, and outings by their mothers. They were fawned over and bragged about. They carelessly left their Golden Books lying about and later would complain about having to read. I was taught how to clean so I’d be able to earn my own money a few years down the road.

As soon as I could, I took advantage of what a library card could offer me.

When I decided to fulfill the dream of a life of ideas and books years later and pursued a Ph.D. in English, I found those spoiled kids grown up and teaching the classes I was taking. Their classes were exercises in demolishing the great works of the past with postmodern and Marxist theories. They lent an air of superiority to their deconstructions of Shakespeare and T.S. Eliot, and declared them guilty of the sins that afflict all Western white males from which they dissociated themselves. Yet, their own writing was puerile.

I also saw that these very same children who treated books cavalierly and left messes for the cleaning lady expressed in very emotional and public terms their concerns for the downtrodden of darker hues. As I struggled in graduate school to support myself and my son and opted for teaching the large load of freshman composition classes, I was told by the graduate director that it would be better to take a lighter teaching load. When I told him that I could not afford to, he suggested I economize by eating “more beans.”

Yet, when a potential black graduate student was to visit the school, a request was sent over the department’s email list calling for volunteers to pick her up from the airport. But I doubt that my services would have been desired, for my beat-up Ford Escort was not very reliable. I searched posters on walls around faculty members’ offices for grants. I saw the invitations from the Ford Foundation, the university itself, and others, but saw that I was excluded.

In the freshman composition classes I taught, I was ordered to use “texts” that celebrated such things as polygamy, child sacrifice, ancestor worship, and ritual suicide. Special sections were devoted to Chicano writers, African-American writers, Chinese writers, prisoners. In a decade and a half I have seen only one work by someone of Eastern European heritage, an unknown daughter of Ukrainian immigrants who wrote an anti-Vietnam short story. Scalp dances and rain dances in the anthologies I was ordered to teach from were presented by the editors as the highest forms of literature. Religions that practiced human sacrifice accompanied by the tribal beat of drums were celebrated as the highest forms of spirituality.

Yet my pointing out in a seminar that certain lines from T.S. Eliot’s poem “Ash Wednesday” were references to the mass and not signs of anti-Semitism, misogyny, classicism, or any other “ism,” was met with stares that had me pinned and wriggling with the question: Who let this fundamentalist nut into graduate school? I was ridiculed in class by the popular professors.

Yet, my thesis advisor (a devout Catholic who received tenure before political correctness) helped me revise my paper for publication at his house and over lunch—after he had retired.

The loudest advocates of “workers” and the “proletariat” in the graduate classroom were twenty-somethings who had generous allowances from parents. These students wrote odes to themselves about handing dollar bills to the homeless. They lounged around when visiting as I struggled to maintain my house and yard.

Yet, it was my neighbor whom they would have labeled backward because of her membership in the Pentecostal Church, whom my son called Mee Maw, who would get on her riding lawn mower and just show up in my backyard. She would sometimes watch my son during my evening classes. I remember walking home one evening to be greeted by her raking the grass in the front yard with my son.

When I later gave her my heartfelt thanks she did not write a Whitman-esque paean about it, but brushed it off and said, “That’s what Our Lord told us to do.”

My education, eventually, came not from the books on the syllabi of the popular professors, but from the authors they disparaged: T.S. Eliot, Richard Weaver, Russell Kirk, William F. Buckley.

I also came to see that I had more in common with Mee Maw than my sophisticated colleagues who liked to continue their nihilism in conversation at parties fueled by drink and drugs.

Yet this group saw themselves as the saviors of humanity.

They have come to make up hiring committees and dedicate themselves to the goals of affirmative action. The snotty kids who made fun of my language grew up to embrace Spanish and promote bilingualism in the workplace and in schools. Most of them support Barack Obama.

They identify with Barack Obama’s statement in Philadelphia a few weeks ago about Jeremiah Wright’s outrageous statements because they agree with what Wright says. Wright may call this country “the U.S. of K.K.K.A.” The English Ph.D.’s use slightly more sophisticated language in literature textbooks as they point out for students, “the bloody truths of Europe’s colonial dreams” (Norton anthology) and “the imperialist and colonizing” mentality of late nineteenth-century America (Heath anthology).

Barack Obama said a short time ago in Philadelphia, “The fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of Reverend Wright’s sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour of American life occurs on Sunday morning.”

Really, Barack Obama? “The most segregated hour of American life occurs on Sunday morning”?

Not at the Baptist church around the corner from where I live. On my dozens of Sunday morning visits, I have heard the gospel preached, but never a mention of race or politics. When the black members come to shake my hand I doubt that they congratulate themselves for their generosity of putting their black hands into my white one. The same holds true for the Catholic Church down the road from me.

I think the most segregated church is the church of the liberal. His dogma is that racial bigotry exists. But it exists only in those outside of his club.

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About The Author
Mary Grabar earned her Ph.D. in English from the University of Georgia and teaches in the Atlanta area. She is a Pushcart Prize-nominated poet and published fiction writer. Visit her website and get on her mailing list at marygrabar.com
 
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You rock, Mary!
Another great column. Passionate and honest, this author has been through it. I know because I have been there myself.

"My education, eventually, came not from the books on the syllabi of the popular professors, but from the authors they disparaged: T.S. Eliot, Richard Weaver, Russell Kirk, William F. Buckley."

Amen to this statement. Wake up America, our higher education system has become a cesspool! And if this woman ever writes a book, giver her a hand and purchase it. She'll never have a chance of landing a full time teaching job in 90% of the colleges and universities in this country.

I don't know what it cost
I don't know what it cost (though it must have been a big bite out of a USMC Captain's pay) but my parents had a collection called "The Great Books"

I somehow never developed much of an interest in Spiderman or The Fantastic Four, being busy with Robinson Crusoe, King Arthur, Robin Hood, Treasure Island, The Arabian Nights...

I wish you'd had them, too, Ms. Grabar. I imagine that your father is very proud of you.

Well said!
Ms. Grabar's astute observation of a certain ivory tower elitism in academia and among affluent liberals strikes a chord to this daugher of an immigrant.

My mother was also functionally illiterate and spoke little English. But she was determined to become an American and diligently spoke only English at home, and learned to read and write the language.

Now she can read and understand Jane Austen.


Excellent article Ms Grabar
But, I would like to know WHY you would want to be ANY PART of their *club?*

They are whinny, spoiled brats who know all the words but have no idea what they are talking about. With their *guilt* clouding their judgement, they can't see straight. They talk about "equality" like they would "give" it to anyone! They need to stay in their ivory towers because they are afraid of the world.

You, on the other hand, have learned more lessons in one year than most of them have learned in their whole life. (Daddy probably purchased their degree just like he purchased everything else they wanted.)

They know only how to talk to each other. You - why, you can talk to the heart of man and woman, poor and not so poor.

You tell me there is a beauty to my life I had not seen as such. You tell me that even when you struggled, you knew what you DIDN'T WANT. (Sometimes much harder than knowing what you DO WANT!)

Thank you for the stroll in your shoes. It is refreshing to know the "American Dream" is still alive and well in LEGAL IMMIGRANTS and maybe even a few of the others.

The best of A-Mary-ca




I just don't know what to say about such a stunning article.

Like most SF fen, I'm literate enough...
--
...in the mainstream stuff ("Shakespeare and T.S. Eliot," et alia), but I'd only read them at the academic equivalent of gunpoint.

I went to a parochial high school where books in the library were cheaper than equipment in the science labs. That and a liberal arts curriculum at a Jesuit college ensured that even a maniac pre-med student wound up with enough background in the liberal arts to kick the average English major to the curb.

But the best part of it was that I was exposed to nothing more than a homeopathic dose of that "politically correct" crap. Just enough to tell that the reputations of writers like Rigoberta Menchu, Toni Morrison, Chinua Achebe and anyone with a novel ever chosen by Oprah's Book Club are inflated beyond belief.

I learned that there's popular crap (a la Oprah) and highfalutin' crap (by way of the professoriate), but that what's published in the mainstream - especially if it's extolled by the mainstream critics - exceeds Sturgeon's Law ("90% of everything is crap") by an order of magnitude.

But thankfully most of the ivory tower (self-anointing) elite of which Dr. Grabar speaks has eschewed speculative fiction ("sci-fi" to the mundanes), which remains largely an entertainment medium in which writers stick to strong plotting, and strive at all times to maintain their readers' willing suspension of disbelief while stretching the customer's sense of wonder.

All the PC bullpuckey that Dr. Grabar's colleagues find so fixating is going to be Dead Literature in a few decades, replaced by yet more bloated, self-referential crap like another layer of garbage on the mulch pile.

While people will still be reading "Doc" Smith's *Skylark of Space* and John Campbell's "Who Goes There?"

--

Mary is fast becoming my favorite
I love reading her down to earth, honest articles, that really have something to say.

She stands out like warm fire on a cold night from the unthankful and arrogant people in the colleges of today.


quote:
Their classes were exercises in demolishing the great works of the past with postmodern and Marxist theories. They lent an air of superiority to their deconstructions of Shakespeare and T.S. Eliot, and declared them guilty of the sins that afflict all Western white males from which they dissociated themselves. Yet, their own writing was puerile.
-----

This is true racism
"and declared them guilty of the sins that afflict all Western white males from which they dissociated themselves."

You are truly a Great American - Bravo!
How refreshing to read a story about socio-economic issues that have led us to almost elect a president like Obama. Your column is a great response to michelle Obama's lack of pride and Barack's inability to disassociate himself from a 'divisive and destructive' religion. As a first generation immigrant, I am proud to hear the great american story shared by many proud americans who have not only earned their stripes - like you have - but they continue to be the sounding board for the truth about this country and those that seek to destroy it. I hope to read more of your work. It truly is refreshing!!!!!

Am glad they didn't let you in......
look what americans would have been missing - a well grounded smart lady to help them keep the faith that this is truly Land of the Free and home of the Brave. I am really really glad they would not let you in their club.

Why is it that people
who come here from Eastern Europe, having lived under the joys of Communism, become such ardent conservatives and supporters of capitalism?

Could it be that they know what a failure socialism and communism is?

Vic: Excellent question!

And, excellent answer!!!


The Best and the Brightest-Mary and Mike
A few more like these two and there might be hope for America afterall.

But for every Mary Grabar and Mike Adams there is an Angela Davis (still teaching, God Help Us) and a Ward Churchill (no longer teaching, Thank God). And Academia remains a bastion of liberal thought. A sea of liberal thought, actually.

Dr. Grabar. Many thanks for stopping by this Sunday morning. Keep the good fight. Your voice means a great deal to countless Americans.




I second that
Terrific article Dr. Grabar. Totally enjoy all her columns, but especially this one.

Vic
If you want a close to home look at what socialism can do to the country, step across your northern border and take up residence for a few years. I have been here 10 years now and whenever I mention to someone that I am an American citizen, the first response is *Why would you live here when you could be living down there?* Speak to Canadians living in America and find out why they left. And reflect upon the thought that when New York State started cracking down on illegal aliens back in the Ayatollah Khomeni days, the vast majority of illegals they rounded up were Canadians.

Then think about the fact that two weeks ago when I wanted to read a certain book by Louisa May Alcott, I discovered that not only did my neighbourhood library not have a single book of hers, but the monopoly book chain that controls all literature for sale, having checked their computers, discovered that not a single copy of this book was available for sale in the entire GTA. A perusal of the young peoples section of our local library and the one in my last neighbourhood too reveals hundreds of books reeking of sex, divorce, and the solving of family problems by entering an alternate universe where the child becomes a hero or a king with secret magical powers and saves not only Earth, but the Universe, and not incidentally his or her dysfunctional personal family. This week I came home with two Robert Louis Stevenson classics and an original Nancy Drew. I also discovered that my local library carries not a single volume of Dickens.

Anne/AudieR10
Good morning all.

Anne; Thanks

AudieR10

AudieR10
Sorry, the Site didn't let me finish. It is behaving badly this morning.

Anyway, I have been to Canada once back when I was living in Saratoga Springs, NY.

I don't think that we will have to go to Canada to see the evils of socialism. We are advancing on it as fast as the Commiecrats and the RINOs can push it. Now the Republicrat candidate is pushing for socialized medicine.

Even Europe has gotten the message now and about half of he countries are reversing decades of socialism.

Dr. Grabar
I'm glad that you and your family came to the United States. I'm glad that you've done well. I'm glad that we live in a country that lets good people succeed. And I'm glad that I read your column this morning. It was useful to be reminded that I didn't have it so bad growing up poor in flyover country.

Dr. Grabar You are a Great American
May God richly Bless you and family!!!!

My family and I keep you in our prayers.

You are not alone!

Do not grow weary in doing good!

Keep fighting the good fight!

You haven't missed anything
...by not being in the "club" with the academic elitist blowhards! In fact, if I have any hope at all for academia, it lies in sensible people such as yourself who have found out on your own what truly great literature is.

A reformed liberal
As a reformed liberal who had membership in that club, I can testify that Dr. Grabar is telling the truth.

Thankfully, more people seem to grow into conservatism than grow into liberalism.

You nailed it, Mary
I come from a more privileged background than you do, but we were still in the bottom half economically. I spent years going to what I now realize was the "wrong" grad school. I thought that it was ideas and not where one went to school that was important, but I was wrong. My going to grad school was a waste of time and money, not that these "liberals" would ever want to compensate me for that. It's why I now vote Republican.

I think our experiences can be boiled down to this: these professors want diversity in terms of race and gender, but not class.

Mary, we really need to form our own academic organization and demand changes. Our viewpoint is not being heard.

Opinion columns can be literature
Thank you very much for such an analytical and beautifully written column. Only a few columnists can produce literature, and you are a member of THAT select club, so there is no need for you to lament your rejection by "Their Club". You are already operating at a level that they could not even imagine.

Your analysis and observation is both clear and deep, with elements of Dickensian character development and poignant vignettes. At every step along the way, you prove that there is always hope for those who have a positive attitude.

I was almost brought to tears, which is extremely unusual.

Thank God you made it to America! If we had an endless stream of principled immigrants such as you and your family, there could be no doubt that we will survive and prevail.

I will read all your previous columns and watch for your byline in the future.

I am sorry to hear that Mary Graber
had such difficult experiences growing up and during her graduate school years, but speaking a sosmeone who attended grad school in english at Columbia (yes, that hotbed of leftism) I have to say that her experience is actually not at all representative of my experience, as I took classes, for expample, on the rise of the print culture in England in the 17th century. No one suggested to me that my interest in Victorian english literature was innapropriate or mispleced. My fellow grad students were quite pleaseant and had many different interests, including ramance novels, chinese poetry, and law, among others. I can only assume that she is making the very typical but oftentimes false assumption that her particular experience is the universal experience.

Younger and younger club members
Great article, Mary, as usual. The sad part of this club membership that you and I will never attain is that the membership is being recruited at a younger and younger age. I substitute teach. The reading material and texts that I have encountered even in flyover country is appalling. Liberal clap-trap history regarding every politically correct topic you can imagine. Did you know that the U.S. started WWII, Global Warming is set science and that more "good" books are written by African-Americans, angry women and natives of anywhere than all the rest of literature written by western white men. This must be true since that is all they seem to have in the reading lists. Liberal thought has taken over our education system and is making inroads into every part of our society.....thanks for keeping the faith.

observe1234
Whether Mary's experiences or yours are more representative, all I want to know is why academics are so resistant to the idea of diversity in terms of class, as well as race and gender.

observe1234
As one who has also waded through the academic morass, Mary's description is FAR more accurate. Of course, if one is politically correct himself or herself, the left wing leanings would not be a problem. But let's stop calling them leanings -- it has become more like entrenched socialist Maoist dogma. Columbia, what a silly little institution. It carries a certain name among those impressed more with prestige than substance. But really, no mature intellectual thought has arrived from that soiled spot of earth in many, many, years.

Dr Grabar....
what can be said? This column should be required reading. I'm so glad you and your family are here making America great.


Truth is Truth
Views are set by ones perspective. I am NOT a writer but have worked many years in logic and reason. I cannot speak to literature which should be obvious but I can speak to logic and reason.

I know truth when I see it. People who measure themselves by self and others who hold their views are phonies. No great thinker ever joined the "club" or ever will.

The bottom line is one can either be true to self or join the self declared elite.

Thank again, Mary
Your columns really strike a chord. My great-grandfather immigrated from Germany to the Dakotas in the early 1900's. Like most of the German immigrants who settled in the are he spoke little English and was relegated to working with his hands. He was a shepard, living in a rock-lined hole dug in the prairie. The hole is still there, but his descendants own the ranch he once worked. They, too, work hard each day. They ask for nothing from the government and pay their doctors in cash. What a concept. They are given no quarter at tax time. They prosper in spite of the government, not because of it. They still lapse into German when angry. Your friends in acadamia would surely look down on them with their worn boots and direct ways. Your columns are a voice for people like them. They are the real backbone of this nation.

Great article
Mary,

I have a suggestion that may seem like a slap, but hear me through.

Teach in a Community College.

Okay, this isn't Harvard, etc. It is a two-year time period when people who really want to be in school learn something that they want to learn.

Teaching people who may or may not go on to a four-year school may not seem like a great thing to do, but consider that in most cases you will be the last organized exposure these students will have to the classics, to an example of good writing, to someone who can set them on the path to good writing and clear thought.

I'd bet that you'd have less pressure to teach the leftist mantra than in most four-year colleges and universities.

Barry

barry
I taught computer classes at a community college for free.

I felt like the community had been good to me so I returned the favor.


Education and Abstraction
Humans use abstraction to understand complex events and things.

The first "school" involved a 'home school' that school had Teachers - students - curricula - and graduation.

The graduates 'lived' the non graduates 'died'.

The curricula was survival techniques - fire, shelter, hunting/gathering, clothing and defense.

The modern day "schools" are not teaching survival techniques in a modern day technology jungle.

Diversity - political correctness - affirmative action and so forth does NOT help students to survive.

Life is difficult.

Mary, you made
another perfect score. Great article. I am starting to look forward to your articles in here so please keep them coming.

Many Delightful Posts.
Your column obviously struck a cord today, Dr. Grabar. It speaks well of TH.


Retired Geek
Has it right. I've also taught at community colleges and enjoy those students and faculty much more than their counterparts at most 4 year schools. However, the political correctness trends are migrating to the 2 year schools nowadays.

Worthless Education
What can you do with an English degree other than get a McJob?

Seriously.

Even David Horowitz, http://www.frontpagemag.com/, who is an arch-conservative lobbying for the Academic Bill of Rights agrees that the problem only lies in the Liberal Arts "McJobs" colleges and not in the sciences. I too have a graduate degree, but in Engineering, and guess what, my experience was nothing but long hours of hard work. Professors in the sciences don't have time for jibber jabber.

I too grew up poor and had to pay for my college education. Or rather would have except the College of Engineering I went too had a guaranteed scholarship for all students who made the Dean's list. I made the Dean's list every semester and never paid a dime in tuition or had to worry about applying for one.

The problem with Liberal Arts in general is they are worthless degrees and only good for McJobs or academia. Here's how sad it is. I too had to take required Liberal Arts classes. I would sign up for UPPER division English classes, skipping lower division, and get A's. I defy any liberal arts major to upper division Physics without taking lower division and even pass.

Liberal Arts is a farce of an education.

I too was disgusted when I took English classes, but for two reasons. One reason was one that you discuss, insane professors, and the other was sheer laziness of the liberal arts students. The course load of two liberal arts classes couldn't match the work of one Engineering class.

Finally, if you don't like the people in your occupation, WHY DO IT. Are you insane? What are you, some kind of sadist? Or is that masochist? Why not teach at Bob Jones University? or some other Religious institution? You'd be happier and we wouldn't have to listen to you whine like a liberal victim.

Wow!!! 5 stars

I came expecting an "oh, woe is me, they don't like me," kind of column,

Totally unprepared for what I read. I have been fed.

Atheist Provocateur

There is nothing wrong with an English degree. Because someone like Mary taught english to someone like you, you can express your views. To bad you don't understand that.

Oh come on, Let me kid observe1234
observe1234 writes: Sunday, May, 04, 2008 8:29 AM
I am sorry to hear that Mary Graber
had such difficult experiences growing up and during her graduate school years, but speaking

a sosmeone (sic)

who attended grad school in english at Columbia

I am sorry
for any child who feels insulted and mocked while growing up. The good Dr. needs to Get Over It. We are all mocked and insulted while growing up. Some of us are traumatized and stunted while others are prodded to greatness.

It would appear as though she made good use of our tax dollars in securing a superior education even though she bites the hands of those who gave her the tools to succeed. All the liberal bigots in the world will not stop our Horatio Alger.

Maybe the good Dr. could recommend 5 great conservative authors to go along with 5 great conservative universities.


Plato or play dough


In a recent Email, I kidded my G’daughter’s English Literature Prof., that his students most likely knew more about Pluto, than they did about Plato.

In his response, he said that one day his young son asked what he was going to teach that day, and in response to his answer, said, “You are going to teach about play dough?”

I had sent him a book I had recently published — no it is not for sale, but samples can be found at http://www.travel-tidbits.com/tidbits/004267.shtml. If book stores with a million books on their shelves are going out of business, I didn’t want to bother adding to that collection.

The Prof’s comment on my book was “It really incites a sense of adventure without a particular agenda … … Reading in this way is a hard thing for me, since I’ve trained myself to do close analytical reading, but your book reminds me to relax and enjoy …… .”

And he had nothing but nice things to say about the G’daughter, so there.


5 stars
Thank you, Dr. Grabar, for this well written article. I am new to Townhall and I have thoroughly enjoyed your recent articles. I plan to go back through the archives this afternoon and read more of your articles. What a great way to spend my Sunday afternoon!

We need millions more Americans like Mary.

I plan to forward this article on to everyone I communicate with by email.

May God continue to bless you, Mary Grabar!

Atheist Provocateur
Atheist P.:

You are right that the problem is mostly in the liberal arts and social sciences, and I sort of agree that there is a sense of entitlement among many in those fields. HOWEVER, they are not TOTALLY worthless -- these faculty are shaping the way young minds think and if they continue shaping public opinion your engineering degree will be worthless when our govt. dictates how you should use it because we were too untrained in the political and social sciences to understand what happened and to shape public opinion. Ayn Rand was RIGHT when she said that a nation's philosophy begins with the "intelletuals" (or anti intellectuals, as the case might be at Columbia) and filters to the political system. If everybody thinks communism is cool, you will be hurting for a job.

That said, I think higher education today is a farce insofar as the public must pay for it. What a crock.

Great Article
To Bleeding Heart Liberal

The "get over it" advice doesn't apply here. It applies to those who have become professional victims. She's not whining about what she went through but is making a point about what life lessons she learned because of her upbringing.

As a conservative English major student, I was inundated with the liberal "jibber jabber" (as the engineering student phrased it) from my very liberal professors. Between the professors and the outspoken liberal students in the classes, I felt like a bit player in lousy local production of "12 Angry Men." At least I had one conservative professor (go Dr. PS!) who provided some sanity in an otherwise uncomfortable place.

Atheist Provcateur
I've taken both physics classes and philosophy classes. The philosophy classes were hard in the own way, but I wouldn't want to say the same thing about English classes since I always avoided those.

As for jobs, what you say is certainly true about philosophy. But art history has job opportunities in museums, art galleries, auction houses, etc.

Also, learning a foreign language opens lots of doors. My advice to the poor when they go to college is either to major in something like engineering, or if they can't stand that, at least to major in a foreign language.

Mary G.
Wow.

Incoherent in English
I spent a fair amount of my career in academia, teaching CS at Brown, Virginia Tech, and Trondheim. I don't recognize anything of what Grabar is saying here from my own experience. Class distinctions? Arrogant elites? Among the undergraduates, perhaps, but soon the rich, dumb, arrogant ones go off into politics and business; they don't stay in academia. You see arrogance, sure, but it's a professor who thinks his encryption algorithm is better than another's.

Setting the content aside, I thought that English PhDs were taught to write cogent and coherent prose. Grabar's article is a mess; it switches topic in mid-paragraph, makes huge and unjustified logical leaps, and reaches conclusions without any preceding argument. I get the feeling she's working down a list of conservative, right-wing talking points, trying to push each button no matter how unrelated to the previous.

Grabar reminds me of Priya Venkatesan, a professor at Dartmouth who recently threatened to sue a bunch of her students because they didn't give her the respect that her PhD entitled her to. Being a victim is the easy way.

re: Bob Munck writes
"Grabar's article is a mess; it switches topic in mid-paragraph, makes huge and unjustified logical leaps, and reaches conclusions without any preceding argument. I get the feeling she's working down a list of conservative, right-wing talking points, trying to push each button no matter how unrelated to the previous."

Mmm, I'm reaching back aways but one of my first lessons in writing was to write to your audience.

Her audience here seems to appreciate, value and ascertain her meaning well enough. Meaning, she reached her audience and did a good job.

Having said that, whether her switching "TV" style is deliberate and separate from her academic work; or rather just the best she can do is up to debate unless one can get a sample of her academic writing.

My experience with English majors is they are very aware of style, voice and the like and I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. This isn't to be taken as a slight on her audience either. It's just a sign of modern times where prose is conversational and anyone who studies conversation knows they drift and twitch as you describe.



Bob Munck
Please provide an example of a paragraph from this piece in which Grabar switched topics in the middle.

re: Bob Munck writes:
" makes huge and unjustified logical leaps, and reaches conclusions without any preceding argument."

Ok, in rhetoric you can do these things as long as it goes unchallenged or you don't care about the challengers. In this case Mary is simply writing a narrative. The conservatives already believe universities are run by arrogant, elitest liberals so no argument is required. Mary is not writing an argument, she's writing a narrative.

All world views, liberal, conservative,etc. need constant maintenance and she's just supplying the maintenance.

Now if she said something that defies the conservative dogma, THEN she needs argument with a conservative audience.

For example, liberals are often pegged as the enemy of free markets and capitalism. The reverse is actually the truth. Liberals are better at capitalism than conservatives. Proof? None other than the state of California. It's the richest state in the Union and the assembly has been Democratic since Reagan was governor. All the Internet start ups, all the economic growth is being spurred by technology companies like Oracle and Microsoft which are solidly liberal.

Conservatives will never admit liberals are better capitalists. Not ever. They'll use anecdotes, straw men, non-sequitor argument rather than the pure, hard economic facts.

So, what to do? Well, there are some contradictions. Like, for example, conservatives believe in self-reliance. They think liberals are victims. So, just point it out to them anytime they use the victim mentality. Also, just point out to them that they take NO responsibility for the state of education for the last 40 years. It's not like they weren't there, yet the ACT like it when they talk about the education system being completely liberal. Or the MSM. Hey, nobody stopped you conservatives from being journalists, and grow a pair of b**ls if you can't take liberals persecuting you in the newsroom.

re: SemperVigilans writes:
" Yet, when a potential black graduate student was to visit the school, a request was sent over the department’s email list calling for volunteers to pick her up from the airport. But I doubt that my services would have been desired, for my beat-up Ford Escort was not very reliable. I searched posters on walls around faculty members’ offices for grants. I saw the invitations from the Ford Foundation, the university itself, and others, but saw that I was excluded."

She switches from picking up someone at the airport to searching for grants.

In fact, care to enlighten us on the workings of this paragraph? How does she know she was excluded?


You are right, sorry
about my terrible spelling, I was in a rush! I am not presuming to say that my experience was more typical than Mary Graber's, just that I was studying the "core" western works (Dickens, etc) and I really did not encounter the type of stuff she did.

Exclusive Clubs!
Great column Mary, I like a lot of legal West Indian immigrants who came to this country, working their butts off two and three jobs in most cases to get the opportunity to attend any institution of higher learning identify with your struggle.
I just want to say I'm proud of your accomplishments and continue to write great stuff.

Atheist Provocateur
If you look at history, you will see that California was rich long before the Liberals.

Do you think it might be something to do with the natural resources there?

Atheist Provocateur
"Sit back and enjoy the panty-bunching show."

Yes, we Conservatives do enjoy the show. Anytime a Townhall columnist writes about Christianity, gays, or abortion, it's truly enjoyable to watch your reaction.

Excellent--
Mary G. my wife and I are grandchildren of Skandinavian and Russian legal immigrants and have heard the stories that our parents told us about the difficulties their parents had with learning English. But they made certain that their many children became as educated as possible, and like you became proud Americans.

My dad told me stories about how many people called them "stupid Norskiis" because they spoke with accents. But they laughed it off and became successful. Thanks for the article. Keep up the great work. This is from proud grandchildren of Skandinavian and Russian peasants.

Bob Munck
It's easy to brag about one's credentials on an anonymous posting site.

Obviously, your lifetime in academia didn't teach you not to end sentences with prepositions.

re: Husker2 writes
"If you look at history, you will see that California was rich long before the Liberals."

Ok, I'll accept that at face value as true. The conservative argument is that the socialist, communist liberals will *destroy* the free market? If that's the case, how do you explain Google? Oracle? and California after FORTY years of liberalism?

I can simply argue that the "socialist" policies of the liberals haven't destroyed the prior successes at capitalism and therefore still make the conservative argument invalid the liberals can't do capitalism. Liberals have run California for forty years. If you read what people posting on TH are saying will happen if Obama is elected president then they are predicting the economic demise of this country in just four years of liberalism.

Why didn't California collapse in four years?

In fact, conservatives are want to explain the economic success of this country from WWII to 1984 when Congress was completely run by Democrats. If Democrats were the enemies of free market capitalism then we should all be living in a Russian style economy about now, eh?, given that 40 year run.

The whole socialist, communist argument is just dogma, not reality. But that's actually ok by me because while conservatives fiddle the socialist fantasy, Democrats are getting richer by the day running companies like Google, etc.


Bob Munck
It's amazing that in one post, you illustrate so clearly what Dr. Grabar was talking about.

You'll have to forgive us stupid Conservatives out here. We are so illiterate, we can actually understand her writing, even when it, as you say, "is a mess; it switches topic in mid-paragraph, makes huge and unjustified logical leaps, and reaches conclusions without any preceding argument."

Atheist Provocateur
If you have lived in California for any number of years, you know that "FORTY years of liberalism" is not accurate.

The modern Liberal is not the same as a Democrat of 20, 30, or 40 years ago.

For a real shock, look at the policies of that great Democratic icon, President Kennedy. Most modern liberals would be shocked to actually see his policies and beliefs.

Atheist Provocateur
I cannot argue with your point about Google, Oracle, etc. But your inference that the only successful companies are run by liberals is a reach.

re: Husker2 writes:
"The modern Liberal is not the same as a Democrat of 20, 30, or 40 years ago."

Not buying that one. Ann Coulter wrote an entire book arguing that FDR was a modern day liberal.

I doubt if too many conservatives would back you up that the modern day Democrat is different than the "communist sympathizers" during WWII and after.

We'll agree to disagree. California liberals haven't changed in 40 years. The education system, as Mary is lamenting, has taken 40 years to become what it is today and that process started a long time ago.

Again, I don't think the conservative community at large would agree with your argument. At best you can claim the modern day liberal didn't come to power until 1968.



re: Husker2 writes:
"But your inference that the only successful companies are run by liberals is a reach."

I inferred no such thing. I stated the Democrats are better at capitalism than Republicans, not "only successful companies are run by liberals".

re: Husker2
Nice chatting, gotta run.

Always glad to provide entertainment. Its always fun for me.

Atheist Provocateur
I stand corrected.

Your statement that "Democrats are better at capitalism than Republicans" based on the examples of Google and Oracle is meaningless.

Women are better capitalists because my local Hallmark store is very successful and is owned by a woman.

Men are better capitalists because my corner gas station is owned by a man and is very successful.

Jerks are better capitalists because the Soros Fund Management is very successful and is owned by a jerk.

Husker2 writes: 7:28 PM
"It's easy to brag about one's credentials on an anonymous posting site."

It's my real name, "Husker2." And I've been on the net since 1972, so there's plenty out there to check. Not everyone is so afraid that they have to use fake names.

"Obviously, your lifetime in academia didn't teach you not to end sentences with prepositions."

Ah, a grammar nazi. Sure it did, and also not to capriciously split infinitives.

"You'll have to forgive us stupid Conservatives out here. We are so illiterate, we can actually understand her writing"

Yeah, I know. I understand about the right-wing dog whistle mechanism. She wasn't trying to tell you something, she was just trying to reinforce your existing fears and hatreds. But jeez, guys, if you'd just study a little harder in school, not party so much, take some of the more difficult courses, you could get some of your people into academia, research, and technology too.

Bob Munck
You wrote: "But jeez, guys, if you'd just study a little harder in school, not party so much, take some of the more difficult courses, you could get some of your people into academia, research, and technology too."

That brings up some interesting research about the lack of Conservatives in academia.

It seems that, based on the research, conservatives tend to gravitate to engineering and business fields. Liberals tend to gravitate to the Liberal Arts.

Bob Munck
A grammar nazi?

I guess so.

I was just surprised that you were so critical of the author's writing style and not the content of the article.

Bob Munck
"It's my real name, "Husker2." And I've been on the net since 1972, so there's plenty out there to check. Not everyone is so afraid that they have to use fake names."

A little touchy?

I bow to your great wisdom and experience. I've been on the net since 2004. There's not much out there to check on me.

Not that I'm afraid. I'm just old.

Atheist provocateur
I appreciate you taking the trouble to provide an example of "topic-switching" in one of Grabar's paragraphs.

As I supposed, you -- standing in for Bob Munck -- conclude that Grabar "changed topics," because you do not agree with what she regards as coherent inferences and logical connections.

Your previous explanation of "writing for an audience" works well here. Much of Grabar's audience shares her perspective on the coherence of her discussion.

If you (or Bob Munck) do not, then it is not her writing competence you object to, but her perspective on the material. Fair enough. We should be clear on that -- and not make specious arguments.

Husker2 writes: 10:20 PM
"interesting research about the lack of Conservatives in academia. It seems that, based on the research, conservatives tend to gravitate to engineering and business fields."

Engineering? Not in my experience. No right-wingers in physics or computer science, either. I don't know about business; we didn't have a business school. The rich frat/jock/legacy guys all took history or poly sci and went to the Harvard B School.

Wait, was this research actually done by conservatives? That would explain a lot; there weren't any wingnuts in my advanced prob&stats courses either.

And not many of them at tech companies where I've worked: MITRE, Unisys, NRL, Prime, IBM.

"I was just surprised that you were so critical of the author's writing style and not the content of the article."

Yet over half of my comment was about content. It's that illiteracy problem, isn't it?

Atheist Provocateur says
"California is the richest state in the Union and yet it is also the most heavily regulated, heaviest taxed..." implying that both can co-exist indefinately. You might have said the same thing about Michigan 30+ years ago and at the same time talked of the very strong, very liberal influence of the Unions on state government - Walter Ruther came back from Russia in the 30's singing the praises of their system. You wouldn't praise Michigan's economy now. It's necessary to look at the effect of liberal policies over time. I read that cost of doing business in California is driving companies to expand elsewhere. we'll see how you evaluate California's economy in future years.

SemperVigilans writes: 10:39 PM
"Much of Grabar's audience shares her perspective on the coherence of her discussion."

So you're saying that her audience understood her prose because they already believed what she was trying to say? Then why did she bother to write the article? The standard cliché is "preach to the choir." If the logical glue that connects her disjoint ramblings is a shared set of beliefs, all she's doing is being a cheerleader. She should be able to do better than that with a PhD.

more proof
Great article, truly inspiring.
Here is a site that will back you up.

http://www.areachicago.org/p/issues/how-we-learn/local-and- national-organizing-by-radical-teachers/

California Liberalism
Atheist Provocateur
You forgot to mention that the California liberal Democrats have now put that state in the red (debt) to the tune of: twenty billion dollars, that's $20,000,000,000!!
Hello.

You're a Hero, Mary!
You are truly a hero in the culture war, Mary.
Keep up the good fight. If you write a book I promise to buy it.

...from Nancy J., a loyal fan

Bob Munck
It appears you can't find fault with Grabar's logic so you pick at her syntax.
I found it to be an entertaining tale of success.

Larry writes: 12:09 AM
"It appears you can't find fault with Grabar's logic so you pick at her syntax."

No, I didn't. Not at all. Is it possible that you don't know what "syntax" means? I attacked her coherence, logic, and continuity. There was no reason to criticize her syntax, nor her grammar or spelling.

Bob Munck
The logical glue that holds all of our ramblings together, from a reader's perspective, is a "shared set of beliefs." We couldn't communicate with each other at all in the absence of shared sets of beliefs. There would be no point even in hitching verbs to nouns, much less adding adjectives or stringing sentences together. Every exercise in communication -- even that of PhDs -- relies on a shared set of beliefs to be comprehensible to an audience.

Obviously you object to Grabar's particular set of beliefs. Fair enough. But you write from a set of beliefs yourself, and can hardly claim to have made explicit all your own logical elisions, in the short space of your posts here.

If we dispensed with all "preaching to the choir" in our communications, every blog, forum, news organization and publishing house would go out of business, and life would be much poorer. Of course Grabar was preaching to the choir. Atheist provocateur has handily demonstrated that you are too.

Perhaps we should just order PhDs not to preach to any choirs. They must have better things to do.

"Bully" Bob Munck...
So how's your Slovenian?

SemperVigilans writes: 12:26 AM
'The logical glue that holds all of our ramblings together, from a reader's perspective, is a "shared set of beliefs." We couldn't communicate with each other at all in the absence of shared sets of beliefs.'

Quite so, but we use the shared knowledge as a base for communicating new ideas or facts. Grabar doesn't seem to be doing that. She's saying things in such a jumbled way that only those who already know them can understand her. Again I ask: why bother?

'If we dispensed with all "preaching to the choir" in our communications, every blog, forum, news organization and publishing house would go out of business, and life would be much poorer.'

That may often be true of blogs and online forums, but I would hope that news and publishing media are adding new information on top of that shared base. Maybe not so much for current news organizations, come to think of it.

pb writes: 12:45 AM
"So how's your Slovenian?"

He's doing a lot better now that the weather has warmed up and we can let him out in the back yard.

Thanks, Mary!
"Snotty" has them pegged.
A couple years ago, a nephew showed me his English Comp text from a Big Ten university, and I didn't recognize one author. The drivel I glanced through wasn't even on a par with the Golden Books much less Hemingway, Fitzgerald or Faulkner... but the bios in the back of the text attested to the authors' PC credentials.
Above, you begin: "In my ignorance...." Don't feel like The Lone Ranger! And give thanks every day for having had that cloud lifted!

"Bully" Bob...
Forgive me, but I just gotta ask: So how many Pushcarts are out in your yard?

Bob Munck
"I spent a fair amount of my career in academia, teaching CS at Brown, Virginia Tech, and Trondheim. I don't recognize anything of what Grabar is saying here from my own experience. Class distinctions? Arrogant elites?"

Maybe it's because you were teaching CS rather than the liberal arts. Or maybe because you just haven't picked up on them yet.

Here's my suggestion: ask yourself why leftist academics want diversity in terms of race and gender, BUT NOT CLASS. Doesn't that say it all? There's a lot more I could say if you still don't get it, though it may relate to things outside of your experience because it applies to people in the liberal arts.

Also, I have to wonder about these engineering students you run into. Yes, the physics students when I was an undergrad were liberal but the engineering students were dyed in the wool conservatives.

Bob Munck
You wrote: "And not many of them at tech companies where I've worked: MITRE, Unisys, NRL, Prime, IBM."

That's a lot of bathrooms to clean.

Bob Munck
I'm not sure what engineers you work with.

If you work with research engineers at universities, or environmental engineers, then you may be dealing with Liberals. Their jobs depend on the grants.

On the other hand, the engineers I daily deal with are all Conservatives.

Bob Munck
Once again, you said, "I don't recognize anything of what Grabar is saying here from my own experience. Class distinctions? Arrogant elites?"

With that statement, you illustrate the premise of Dr. Grabar's article. Class distinctions? Arrogance? Not you! You're just smarter than me because you invented the Internet in 1972 and you worked for many important companies.

By the way, I promise to never capriciously split an infinitive again. If I do, promise to gently remind me.

Last thoughts
OK, this thread is dying out, but let me make a couple last observations. First, the two people (observe1234 and Bob Munck) who insisted that their experiences didn't coincided with Mary's (thus hers must not be right) missed the point of what she was saying. It was "I came from the lower-class and was treated shabbily in academia." The proper critical response would be, "I also came form the lower-class but was treated well." Yet neither one of these people gave their class background. So, why is their time in academia relevant at all to what Mary is saying?

Second, no one seems to have noticed what a delightful title Mary's column has, for it is the left that whines about excluding people at the bottom, yet they are just as prone to do that as anyone else.

Excellent Article
Thanks you, Mary.
You expressed what so many of us have learned through experience and did so in way that was direct, thought provoking, and encouraging.

reply to JFP
OK, I came from a 'lower class' background and have not been treated shabbily in academia. I've been an academic for nearly 40 years. My father didn't graduate from high school, reaching only 9th grade before he had to drop out and go to work.

What annoys me about Ms. Grabar's whine--and it is largely a whine--is that she appears to have made no real effort to get to know any of her upper class oppressors. She generalizes about all of these apparently horrible people. She sounds like a negative, whining, complaining person, and filled with a sense of resentment which must have made her an absolutely dreadful colleague in an academic department. Did she ever try to deal with the people around her by getting to know them? Maybe some of them actually had families and lives and might have been worth getting to know. But Ms. Grabar, secure in her self-righteousness as a conservative, plainly would not and could not give them the time of day.

Ms. Grabar seems to lack, and never seems to have realized that she needed to acquire, what we often call 'people skills' in the profession she has chosen.

Her experience is radically unlike my own. I have had good (and bad) colleagues, good (and bad) experiences on my way to getting the Ph.D. and good (and bad) experiences as a teacher. Ms. Grabar seems to have had nothing but bad experiences, which makes me doubt her veracity. I certainly wouldn't recommend that she be hired by my university, not because she's a conservative, but because she's a pain in the ***.

JFP writes: 9:43 AM
'The proper critical response would be, "I also came form the lower-class but was treated well."'

It wouldn't have occurred to me; "class" wasn't ever an issue. My father worked in an iron foundry and I got through school on scholarships, loans, and summers working on a drill rig. So what class am I? "Lower middle?" "Working?" My mentor, who was also the department head, spent his early years in a Nazi concentration camp. His family finally made it to the West Indies at the end of the war and to the US when he was 14. I'd worked with him for several years before I learned that; I thought he'd grown up in Philadelphia. I have absolutely no idea how rich or poor or upper or lower any of my other colleague's parents were; the topic just never came up. Most of the junior faculty drove things like VW bugs and lived in apartments.

The current president of my university was the 12th child of black sharecroppers in Grapeland in east Texas. The family moved to Houston where the mother was a maid and the father was a factory worker. Simmons started out teaching comparative literature and worked up to associate dean at Princeton, provost at Spellman, president at Smith, and then the current position. "Class" doesn't seem to have been a major stumbling block for her.

JFP writes: 9:43 AM
Grabar blames all of her problems in life on class distinctions, but seems to be inferring that that's what it was. For instance, she whines that the upper-class kids made fun of her accent and hair style; they probably did, but the other poor kids, the second-generation Irish and Italian kids who spoke colloquial English, probably did also. That's not class, it's kids.

Once she gets into academia, most of the slings and arrows that Grabar suffers seem to have to do with religion rather than class. Since most of the religious fundies I've known have been very well-to-do, I can't equate the two.

Grabar is blaming her failed academic career on class prejudice, but she gives no reasons to believe that's true. It's a convenient excuse.

The Club
I also spent a lot of time in academia while getting my undergraduate and graduate degrees. I found the same atmosphere of elitist snobbery and contempt for value systems which differed from liberal dogma.
The pompous left wing gas bags who dominate academia, the media, and the churches contribute virtually nothing to America but the evidence of their own degeneracy.
Congratulations to Mary Grabar for calling a spade a spade.

Gestell, Bob Munck
Neither one of you answers my challenge: Why is it that leftists want diversity in academia in terms of race and gender but not class?

Gestell, if you have been in academia nearly 40 years, then I'm guessing you got in before the job crunch hit. Naturally, you would have experienced a very different academia from what I experienced. Also, you don't mention what your discipline is. One's experiences are going to vary a lot depending on the discipline.

Bob, I presume you're talking about Ruth Simmons. I looked her up. She got a B.A. from some place I never heard of (Dillard University) and a Ph.D. from Harvard. What if she had stayed at Dillard? She would have been a nobody. I admit that any person from the lower class who gets into an elite school will be treated well, but there's a lot of us didn't get in (or didn't even try to get in), and to paraphrase Jane Austen at the beginning of "Mansfield Park," there just aren't enough slots in the elite schools for all the deserving poor people who could get into them. You really have to think about how to accommodate the rest of us who didn't go to a rich kids' school.

By the way, my bad experiences in academia weren't the result of my being a conservative, because I was a socialist when I got my Ph.D. Then I started trying to get jobs and publications, and saw how shabbily I was being treated. I now vote Republican.

JFP
What in the world are you talking about?

"Why is it that leftists want diversity in academia in terms of race and gender but not class?"

Socio-economic diversity at selective institutions has been a big issue of discussion fro a number of years. The Yale Conference " A Seat at the Table" focused on this a few years back. Currently, mosty of the highly selective institutions are avidly seeking qualified low income students, and enticing them with massive financial aids awards.

The most ubiquitous educational opportunity program in higher educaiton, the TRIO programs, have as their qualifications only that students be low-income and or first generation. They have been around for over 30 years.

Is it possible you really don't know as much about this as you think?





JFP writes: 2:51 PM
"You really have to think about how to accommodate the rest of us who didn't go to a rich kids' school."

Brown has "Needs-Blind Admissions;" I presume the rest of the Ivys do also. That is, your ability to pay isn't considered, or even known, as a factor in admissions. We just recently raised $2.5B for that purpose. Even back in the 60's, my parents paid about 10% of my costs (and I'd paid them back by the end of the year that I graduated).

"She [Ruth Simmons] got a B.A. from some place I never heard of (Dillard University) and a Ph.D. from Harvard. What if she had stayed at Dillard? She would have been a nobody."

No, she probably would have been an excellent professor and eventually president of Dillard, where she would have done as much good for her students as she's now doing for Brown students. That might even have been better for the world; Dillard has a strong tradition in jazz.

"I admit that any person from the lower class who gets into an elite school will be treated well"

Which, of course, was our point. Grabar's whimpering about how badly she was treated is purely an attempt to disguise her own failures.

Bleeding Heart Liberal
I don't know about the authors, but here are some universities you might try.

University of Chicago
St. John's College (Annapolis MD and Santa Fe NM)
MIT
Cal Tech
Rice

That's five, I'm sure there are others.

Barry

I just re-read Mary's article...
... in search of 'whines.' All I see is maturation.
Anyone who seriously thinks that race is not a determinant in academe is in denial. And her final point is excellent. (cf. Matthew, on motes & beams.)

pb
yes, you should.

And I have no idea what you mean by race is a "determinant."

barry writes: 4:51 PM
You're claiming that MIT is a conservative school? Are you kidding? Half the people there haven't noticed that there's an election this year. At MIT, "conservative" means sticking with Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon for a week after Hardy Heron comes out.

To put it in more concrete terms, David Horowitz did one of his surveys a year or so ago and couldn't find a single registered Republican on the faculty at MIT (or at Williams, Oberlin, and Haverford).

PB: she's not talking about race; she appears to be a white anglo-saxon. The stuff about Obama at the end is just part of her incoherent dog-whistling.

Jack
"Currently, mosty of the highly selective institutions are avidly seeking qualified low income students, and enticing them with massive financial aids awards."

I'm aware of this, and I commend them. But I'm talking about FACULTY and not students. When I hear that deans and provosts are telling department chairs that they want to hire someone who is from a low-income background, and/or someone who went to the "wrong" grad school, I'll be impressed. Until then, I'll assume that most academics in the liberal arts are either from a wealthy background or else got lucky by getting into an elite school.

JFP

I may have missed your point then.

Are we talking faculty or students? My experience is that faculty are more likely to come from low-income or moderate means than students.

If your point is that Universities ought to take socio-economic background into consideration in hiring, I am in agrement with you. But that is not a problem with "leftists".

Jack and JFP
"When I hear that deans and provosts are telling department chairs that they want to hire someone who is from a low-income background"

"If your point is that Universities ought to take socio-economic background into consideration in hiring"

I've been involved in hiring, and I really don't get this. Are you suggesting that they get some kind of financial report on the candidate's parents? Your candidate is generally a grad student or faculty at some other institution, and he's making what everyone in a similar position is making. You look at publications, student reviews, recommendations, stuff like that; "socio-economic background" doesn't come up and I don't know what you'd do with it if it did.

The smart kids get into the good schools, and if they do well, they get into the good grad schools. If they do well there, they get hired by the good schools. There's no place where how rich the parents were enters into it.

Sure, rich parents can give the kids a leg up. There's still legacy admissions and things like SAT tutors, but those things are becoming less and less a factor. And once the kid's in college, it's up to him. I've never heard of anything like legacy grad school admissions or a legacy faculty position.

The problem may be that smart conservatives just don't want to work for professor-level wages. They go into business or politics, where the big money is. You're left with the mediocre wingers whining because they can't make it in academia. They wouldn't be able to make it if they were liberals, either.

Wise words
Mary!

Jack & Bob Munck
Jack:
Yes I should what?
Determinant(from Merriam-Webster): "an element that identifies or determines the nature of something or that fixes or conditions an outcome."

Bob Munck:
Where do I say Mary is talking about race? The word "anyone" is intended for other posters (or do you just read your own?) After pointing out how she changes subjects in the middle of a paragraph, I should think you could slug your way through three lines, TWO paragraphs.
"She appears to be a white anglo-saxon." I had no idea that the Angles & Saxons made it down to Slovenia. What century was that?

Bob Munck
"I've been involved in hiring, and I really don't get this. Are you suggesting that they get some kind of financial report on the candidate's parents?"

How clueless can you be? If race and gender are taken into account, why not class background as well?

As for your fantasy about how academia works, it is just that, a fantasy.

STOP BLAMING THE VICTIM.

Jack
"My experience is that faculty are more likely to come from low-income or moderate means than students."

A survey was done a few years ago that showed that most people getting Ph.D.s in the humanities come from wealthier backgrounds. They are the ones who will most likely get the jobs.

"If your point is that Universities ought to take socio-economic background into consideration in hiring, I am in agrement with you. But that is not a problem with 'leftists'."

Oh, yes it is. There is widespread agreement among leftists that race and gender ought to be taken into account in hiring, but I have yet to hear any leftist demand that class and economic background also ought to taken into account. It would be quite a change, because any honest examination of this problem would see that most of us from poorer backgrounds end up in non-elite grad schools, and the ridiculous elitism of most leftists at the top will just have to be scrapped.

And to see that elitism in action, all you have to do is to look at Bob's last post. "The smart kids get into the good schools...." Please.

Bob Munck
By the way, it's because of people like you that I now vote Republican. According to you, academia works perfectly (except maybe if you're a woman or a black). Somehow, every poor kid who's smart ends up in an elite school. Somehow, academic publishing works perfectly, and there's never any unfairness in it. The leftists who were trying to reform everything back in the Sixties have decided that no more reforms are necessary in academia, because everything works perfectly. Plus, although leftists usually want to hear from people at the bottom, they don't want to hear from people at the bottom in academia, because the system works perfectly.

I figured if my fellow leftists were so reactionary on this issue, I might as well vote with the reactionaries.

JFP writes: 7:12 AM
"STOP BLAMING THE VICTIM."

I'm not seeing a victim; I'm seeing someone who claims to be a victim to hide her own failures. You too, apparently.

Just look at her single claim to being victimized for being "lower class" in academia:

"I doubt that my services would have been desired, for my beat-up Ford Escort was not very reliable. I searched posters on walls around faculty members’ offices for grants. I saw the invitations from the Ford Foundation, the university itself, and others, but saw that I was excluded."

SHE decided that her Ford was no good; SHE decided that she was excluded. Do you really think that the posters specified "upper class only?" Everything else she complained about had to do with subject matter, not "class distinctions." She just didn't want to teach what her employer wanted her to teach.

And just look at this:

"In a decade and a half I have seen only one work by someone of Eastern European heritage"

30 seconds with google gives you a list of a hundred or more Slovenian writers and poets. If she felt they were under-represented in the curriculum, why didn't she develop a course outline and propose it? Simple; when it was accepted, she wouldn't have been a victim any more.

Brown has an entire department of Slavic languages and literature, with 14 people on the faculty. I glanced through their vitae; about half are women, and a fair number came here as refugees.

Seeing yourself as a victim is the easy way out.

JFP writes: 7:48 AM
"By the way, it's because of people like you that I now vote Republican."

"My going to grad school was a waste of time and money, not that these "liberals" would ever want to compensate me for that. It's why I now vote Republican."

That's really great. Reparations.

"According to you, academia works perfectly"

Who said "perfectly?"

"(except maybe if you're a woman or a black)."

Ruth Simmons is both.

"A survey was done a few years ago that showed that most people getting Ph.D.s in the humanities come from wealthier backgrounds."

Cite, please.

"They are the ones who will most likely get the jobs."

A completely unwarranted conclusion. Let's see the data showing that most academics come from rich families. You've been given a bunch of counterexamples.

So we've got two people who couldn't make it in academia, and looked around for something or someone other than themselves to blame. No wonder you're both right-wing; claiming to be a victim is part of the basic philosophy.

Bob Munck
Here's the citation. It comes from an interview in "The Chronicle of Higher Education" for 4/7/06, pp. A21-2, with one of the people who did the survey, Michael T. Nettles. Here's what he said:

The humanities students were distinctive in the fact that they were the highest socioeconomic class of doctoral students. Doctoral students in general are of higher socioeconomic class than the general population. But humanities students had the parents who were more likely to be postbaccalaureate-trained professionals. They also came from higher-income families."

So how do these types treat me, given that I come from a lower-middle class background? They wouldn't do a lick for me, no matter how "left of center" they seem to be. Like Mary says, they wouldn't let me in their club.

It's true that you didn't come right out and say that academia worked perfectly, but you implied it. You implied, and now you have stated, that because a few lucky poor people managed to get into academia, therefore there are no problems.

Reparations? Why not, given that that is the way that leftists at the top think?

"Ruth Simmons is both."

Exactly. Sometimes, you are awfully clueless. My point is that a black woman hired when she was doesn't count as an example of a poor person making it in academia, because both then and now administrations are hungry for black women. So, she doesn't even count as a counter-example.

Bob Munck
As far as being a victim goes, Mary will have to plead her own case.

But first let me point out that I know of a couple "victims" in academia. These were people who were given many opportunities, opportunities that I would die for. One was guaranteed a publication, if he would just finish it. He couldn't manage to do that. The other comes from Harvard and must have had lots of connections that would help her get published, but she failed to send anything off. The result was that although each of them had tenure-track jobs (something I never had), neither got tenure. They now go around whining about this.

I'm not going to give you a blow-by-blow account of my time trying to get published. I'm just going to say that as time went on and I got better and better, the reasons for rejection got more and more pathetic. Problems that would take me two minutes to fix were described as serious flaws that wrecked my argument. And those were the problems that were real problems. Others weren't even problems, except insofar as they showed that the referee hadn't even read what I had written. I spent years trying, and failing, to get published in a totally unfair system.

And by the way, it was years before I allowed myself the luxury of thinking of myself as a victim. I spent years trying to figure out what was going on before taking that route.

Fortunately, the Internet came along, and I was able to publish an article without dealing with academia's impossibly high standards. Plus, print-on-demand publishing allowed me to publish a book. My views are out there, no thanks to leftists at the top.

By the way, claiming to be a victim is *not* part of the right-wing philosophy. That is a specialty of the left.

JFP writes: 1:15 PM
"The humanities students ... were the highest socioeconomic class OF DOCTORAL STUDENTS. ... in general higher socioeconomic class than the general population. ... parents who were MORE LIKELY to be postbaccalaureate-trained professionals. They also came from HIGHER-income families."

Try actually reading what you quoted. It's all comparatives. All we know is that humanities students are higher than the average academic, and that that puts them some amount higher than the population average. Of course they are; THEY'RE BETTER EDUCATED than the general public average.

'They wouldn't do a lick for me, no matter how "left of center" they seem to be.'

So you couldn't make it on your own, and are upset that no one gave you any special advantage. How republican can you get?

"both then and now administrations are hungry for black women."

In 1970? How little you know of your own history.

"Problems that would take me two minutes to fix were described as serious flaws that wrecked my argument."

So why'd you send the papers in with serious flaws? Peer review is not the equivalent of a parent helping a kid get his homework done correctly. If your paper is rejected, you've probably now missed the deadline for that publication. So fix it and submit elsewhere. Did you do that, and get rejected again? And again? Guess what, your papers probably stink.

"I spent years trying, and failing, to get published in a totally unfair system."

That's really pretty sad. I published my first peer-reviewed paper the summer after I got my bachelor's. That and most of the others were in CS, but I've also published in religious studies, sociology, and psychology journals. I guess it was because Dad was making big bucks there at the iron works. Or my tooling around in my flashy 12-year-old Plymouth Fury.

Bob Munck
So why are you slumming over here on TH? Ivory towers were built to keep the likes of you segregated from the likes of us. Please respect the boundaries. Go publish in a journal somewhere. We happen to like Mary.
BTW, it was big of you to acknowledge along the way that she is Slovenian, that that is not a breed of dog, and that all white people aren't 'anglo-saxon.'
Reading twits like you just fortifies an opinion I formed long ago, that the chief requirement for success in academia is an ego the size of a house, coupled with the need to have gullible teens daily pay homage to it.

Bob Munck
Can't you read? I didn't say my papers had serious flaws. I said that they had tiny flaws which were described as serious flaws by the referees, who were clearly biased.

You bash the right, but you're quite a reactionary yourself, and you've been co-opted by the rich.

I'd continue this conversation, but I have to get ready to go to the big Medieval conference at Kalamazoo. This is my wife's field, not mine, sadly, because this is one of the few institutions within academia that is actually kind to poor people. Why?

1. It is held on a college campus rather than in some high-priced hotel. Poor people can stay in a cheap dorm room.

2. Anyone can submit a proposal for a session. You don't need an advanced degree. When my wife submitted a proposal for a session at the big conference in her major (art history), they wanted 18 copies of the proposal plus an abbreviated CV. Naturally, they turned her down, because she was such small fry. She dropped out of CAA and now goes only to Kalamazoo.

3. After running a couple of sessions at Kalamazoo, my wife was approached by a publisher to do an anthology. That never happens outside of Kalamazoo. At least, I've never heard of it happening.

Of course, the elites at the top try to impose control, but it is too big of a conference for them to do much. And that's the way it should be.

JFP writes: 8:11 PM
"I didn't say my papers had serious flaws. I said that they had tiny flaws which were described as serious flaws by the referees, who were clearly biased."

How would that work? Reviews are done anonymously; they don't know who you are (and you don't know who they are). Were they biased against your margin widths? Kerning? Font choice? You didn't use one of those Franklin Gothic fonts, did you? Or did you fail to use the special "SonOfaCEO" watermarked paper?

No, I've got to go with my prior conjecture: your papers stank.

"You bash the right, but you're quite a reactionary yourself, and you've been co-opted by the rich."

Nah, I've got heavy civil-rights and anti-war chops from the 60's. Then I went out to work in industry and made MYSELF rich.

"I have to get ready to go to the big Medieval conference at Kalamazoo."

Sounds like our old SIGGraph conferences, until they went over 10,000 people and we started having to take over large-city convention centers. LA this year, I think; we held the first one on-campus in a single small building.

Grabar's Students Speak
Here's an interesting page of student ratings from Grabar's current job teaching at Clayton State University:

http://tinyurl.com/5qhlml

Read the student comments; it doesn't appear that it's only the upper-class snobs on the faculty who don't think much of her.

A Sadly No comment thread has some interesting discussion of an excerpt from her unpublished novel.

Mary Grabar
What an awesome outpouring of honest, heartfelt truth! It brought back memories of my mother telling me not to marry Joe because he was not of my "class". It reminded me of my liberal sister (that I dearly loved in spite of that) not wanting to invite my mother-in-law to dinner because of her accent and archaic "ways". It reminded me that the Bible says "Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly"(Lev. 19:15). This is supposed to be a republic; a democracy, but still we have people who think they are better than others and they decide on a "target" group to have pity on and to help, yet with all the money they throw at their "target", things don't change for the "target", except that they feel ENTITLED!
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