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Wednesday, December 20, 2006
Mary Grabar :: Townhall.com Columnist
The girls on The View
by Mary Grabar
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After watching The View and following the inane statements made on the program, I’ve come to the conclusion that it really is true what Aristotle, Saint Paul, and John Milton said: Women, without male guidance, are illogical, frivolous, and incapable of making any decisions beyond what to make for dinner.

We’ve seen what happens when women put their professionally styled heads together and make statements about current events. A few months ago, Rosie O’Donnell said, “radical Christianity is just as threatening as radical Islam,” and earlier this week show regular Joy Behar compared Donald Rumsfeld to Adolf Hitler.

But every burned-out hippie I’ve talked to since 2001 has been making the comparisons between the Bush administration and the Nazis. O’Donnell and Behar could have gotten their talking points from the bright leaflets of every communist youth group that’s been hoping to organize a day to “stop business as usual” and proclaiming in apocalyptic terms the dangers of the Bush administration to very survival of the “planet.” They also agitate for the legalization of marijuana.

Such statements are becoming quite tedious.

But it’s a sign of our crumbling civilization that a bunch of girls of varying ages and ethnic backgrounds, sitting around all dressed up for a coffee klatch, some of them with cleavage spilling out of Victoria’s Secret Infinity Edge Push-Up bras, spout off opinions borrowed from disturbed teenagers and Michael Moore, and call it a talk show.

This was the danger of giving women the vote. The danger to conservatives (and the survival of this country) is the voting bloc of single women, i.e., those who lack the guidance of a man in the form of a husband or intellectual mentor.

These are women who pride themselves on being independent and empowered when they dress like prostitutes (look at the view of cleavage on the View!). These are the women who watch the View. These are the women who support Hillary Rodham Clinton. These are the women on the show who ask Senator Clinton questions like “Do you think being a mom will help you in the White House?” as they did on December 20. These are the women who think it matters that a potential presidential candidate waxes on about the same themes in her re-released book, It Takes a Village: that preschool programs need to be expanded, that working parents should have time off to take care of their kids. This is the potential presidential candidate who was applauded on the show for allowing one of her staff members to bring in her baby’s playpen.

This is a woman who started off with a discussion about how much she likes to do crafts at Christmas time.

Yes, I can imagine: we’ll have playpens and parenting classes and crafts classes in the new Clinton White House, maybe even a special prayer room for the Muslims and breaks five times a day for them. This will bring peace to the world by setting an example, for all the terrorists will supposedly drop their weapons in awe of this “village.” Hillary’s answer to the Iraq question was that she wanted the country to have a “conversation” again. What—like the one they have on The View?

News flash: there are fanatics who want to annihilate us and Hillary Rodham Clinton is talking about crafts and “conversations.”

The other guest was Kaye Ballard. Her newsworthy item was that she had slept twice with the late Marlon Brando. The question “Was he good?” posed by I forget who was not answered. Ballard just said she loved Brando but then talked about her four dogs: “They’re my life,” she said. See?

Probably many of the women watching the View are stay-at-home moms. But I question what kind of men they have for husbands, or “partners”; they’re probably English professors who have “Peace is Patriotic” bumper stickers on their Volvos. They’re probably the ones who work under department heads who have imposed the popular pedagogical policy of the “maternal presence” in the classroom. These male teachers try to be “facilitators” and nurture spoiled college students who are text-messaging insults about them as they drone on about the “other” and feelings. They write conference papers agreeing with their colleagues that the whole canon of dead white male authors should be eliminated to make way for women writers who eschew linear (read logical) and therefore patriarchal thought. They probably sit down to pee. Well, it stands to reason that a show like The View, with all women, would turn out the way it does. It’s not surprising. After all, this is what happens at a bridal or baby shower. Women get all gussied up and squeal and play silly games. They have gift bags. On The View, Rosie pulled up a handbag filled with Elizabeth Taylor’s brand of perfume, White Diamonds, as a “gift” for everyone.

Ever observe a table at a restaurant filled with women? Good Lord, it’s exhausting just watching the gesticulating and gabbing. Whenever I get invited to a “luncheon” I head for the hills.

Not that there is anything wrong with such gatherings and not that I have anything against other women. In fact I have a few female friends. But such squeal-a-thons (“I love what you’ve done to your hair!”) are not the proper places in which to make public political statements. When women have been the minority among men they have proven themselves to be quite competent. Look at Jeane Kirkpatrick, Margaret Thatcher, and Condoleezza Rice. Did any of these women attend any of these on-air chat fests?

Men, on the other hand, are quite capable of holding forth intelligently among themselves, as commentators have done through the years. You don’t have men squealing “Oh, I love your tie!” as they set to embark on a discussion about the future of free world.

I know many women will disagree with me. They will be hurt. Maybe angry. There may be some tears. The lesbians will come to their defense. All the Rosie O’Donnell’s will give them big hugs, maybe even pull them on their laps as Rosie did with Danny DeVito.

So what.

I admit I’m not a typical woman.

When I was a graduate student, for $50, I participated in the Psychology Department’s study and took the Myers-Briggs personality test and came up, not surprisingly, as an INTP. My type is the absent-minded professor, which I learned was very rare among women.

The test pegged me. At a party (party being the situation that many of the questions were about), I study people to determine if they’ve read Truth and Method before talking to them. They have to pass my test, but then I don’t let them go until they plead starvation and head for the hors d’oeuvres.

No I’m not a typical woman. I read philosophy. I hate to shop. I don’t care what I’m wearing. Nothing in my house is coordinated. If I had been on The View I probably would have taken that old-lady-Elizabeth-Taylor-perfume out of the handbag that Rosie pulled up and dumped it on her head.

But I’ve read Aristotle, Saint Paul, and John Milton, and I think they have very good things to say.

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About The Author
Mary Grabar earned her Ph.D. in English from the University of Georgia and teaches in the Atlanta area. She is a Pushcart Prize-nominated poet and published fiction writer. Visit her website and get on her mailing list at marygrabar.com
 
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girls on the view
Thank you so much. I've been saying this for years, particularlly the women's right to vote. You nailed it with your title, "girls on the view" because they most certainly are NOT women.
Nice to know I'm not the only one out there thinking and saying the same thing. Have a Merry Christmas and may God Bless you more.
Jamsey comes Looking, proud native American woman.

Critical mass
Most women that I know are reasonably smart provided they do not get together in groups of more than 3. Four or more will invaribly (and sometimes only 3) allow the estrogen concentration to rise to the level of critical mass where the results are not pretty (e.g. The View). But the same can be said about men...four or more and the testosterone levels reach critical mass and they behave like 14 year olds.

"No I’m not a typical woman. I read philosophy. I hate to shop. I don’t care what I’m wearing. Nothing in my house is coordinated. If I had been on The View I probably would have taken that old-lady-Elizabeth-Taylor-perfume out of the handbag that Rosie pulled up and dumped it on her head.
But I’ve read Aristotle, Saint Paul, and John Milton, and I think they have very good things to say."

If you're not married will you marry me? If you are married please tell me you have a twin sister!!!

BTW...has anyone noticed that right after women were given the right to vote that there were two world wars and a great depression?????***

***intented as a joke...if anyone doesn't think it is funny, I'm sorry and I will send you the name of a good transplant surgeon that will implant a sense of humor in you.


This is why conservative ladies rule
Is there any wonder why "Family Guy" once mocked "The View" by showing them clucking like hens (Star Jones laid an egg)? It is a hen house. While a group of men will end up yakking about chicks, cars, sports, and bodily noises, I know how Ms. Graber feels about groups of women.

There is nothing worse than a group of uninformed women who go by their feelings and what they see on The View or read in People magazine. Such women should have their voters' registrations revoked immediately. All of the truly independent, liberated women who embrace rationality are conservatives. I guarantee you if you replaced the bimbosity of The View with say, Michelle Malkin, Tammy Bruce, Laura Ingraham, and Ann Coulter, America's collective IQ would rise exponentially. And they'd be a lot more entertaining to watch.

Ummm......
Ok, I agree the women on The View are an absolute embarrassment and do not represent me or my beliefs as a single woman. They are petty, foolish, liberal to a fault, and so bloated on themselves and are completely out of touch with reality.

However, I must disagree with you, Mary. I too, hate a squeal fest, I hate to shop, and I also don't need the company of a female to tag along with me if I need to use the restroom. However, I did not need any man to guide me into having better thought processes.

No, I am not a lesbian, I'm just a woman who when I made my first paycheck back when I was 15 years old and noticed how much taxes were taken out and where it was going to and how much it upset me to know---that curbed my mind and made me a conservative and a seeker of knowledge of who I want to be in charge of my tax dollars. The rest sort of fell into place after that and I became a full republican.

I will agree that most young women today have taken the rights of equality to our male counter parts and have abused it, crapped on it, and manipulated it to an extreme which makes them look like uneducated, unencumbered sluts.

I agree we need better female role models and we need to celebrate them. However, MSM doesn't find a hard working woman who has achieved great heights and struggles in her life as interesting as Paris Hilton puking against a wall after a big night of clubbing.

It's not men that we need to guide us. We need to represent ourselves better and ascert those who can bring us back on a level that can conjure up respect and admiration.

Ummm...
I sense a lot of fatherly influence in Shells' post.

Mstone
LOL, so cute! I wish you were right actually, my dad is as liberal as they get, so is my mom. In fact, I'm the only conservative in my entire family. Funny how things work out like that.

We need a show called "The RIGHT View"
We need a show called "The Right View". It would feature Ann Coulter, Mona Charen, Tammy Bruce, Mary Grabar, and Laura Ingrham. Danny DeVito could be the first guest. Once they dismantled that puppet, they could go to work on the Perky One. I'd watch every day.

hmmm...
Interesting analysis. The best solution is just to turn the TV off. The View scored a nielsen rating of 1.7 in November sweeps (which of course the media hyped as a "surge') which equates to on average less than 2 million households per day. The Price is Right achieves a rating of about 4, almost 5 million viewers per day.

The View loves all this press...if we simply stop paying attention to it I think they'll go away.

For the record, Elizabeth Hasselbeck is awesome.

Right on, sister!
This is one of the best articles I've ever read on feminism. It's so good, I'm not just printing it out....I'm also framing it!

Aristotle, St. Paul, and John Milton are in good company with Mary Grabar.

Shells
"However, I must disagree with you, Mary. I too, hate a squeal fest, I hate to shop, and I also don't need the company of a female to tag along with me if I need to use the restroom. However, I did not need any man to guide me into having better thought processes."

I so agree with you Shells.

I need to say there are a lot of boring men out there who can't carry on a conversation if it doesn't involve sports, cars, and TV. Not to mention "guiding" a woman anywhere other than to their flat screen TV.

Now, it would be nice if we all could find this Mr. Right to "guide" us but that is not always available, then a woman does what a woman needs to do.







Oh yeah
I also wanted to say I've never watched the "view".
Everything I ever read about it makes it sound so worthless. Usually I'm working anyway. Not missing anything apparently.

The question is:
If these women were as inane, but attacked the liberals instead, would this column have been written? Would the author have a problem with them?

Nope x 2.

Why not just turn off the TV?
Because the TV show isn't the problem. It's a symptom of a much greater disease that has infected our whole culture. Personally, I think it's a good thing these airheads have a high profile forum becuase they highlight the idiocy of today's lefty media, its politics, and SO-CALLED "feminism".

Mary Grabar for Empress!
I think if Mary Grabar were Empress of the Western World we would have only about one-third as many problems as we do currently. Also, liberal women would be . . . nicer?

Actually, I think Mary is the best thing to come out of Georgia since Scarlet O'Hara.

I never watch "The View." I fear that it would only encourage them.

steve maloney

Government is the problem....
> This was the danger of giving women the vote.

No, that had a greater problem: when the family voted as one unit (and while the male cast the vote, do you honestly think that his wife, sitting next to him at the town or church meeting, didn't have a great say in what that vote was) then the basic unit of society was the family. The married couple and their children.

When wives became independent of their husbands then government started assuming the role.

> The danger ... is the voting bloc of single
> women, i.e., those who lack the guidance of
> a man in the form of a husband or intellectual
> mentor.

No, single women have such a person - in the persona of their local social services administrator or government bureaucrat. Women as a group have replaced the role they used to share with a male mate with their relationship with (and support for) big government.

"The View" versus "The Man Show"
First, when I mention "The Man Show", I refer not to the origional one (which was sometimes tasteless) but its ill-fated version with the replacement cast post Carolla/Kimmel that was always tasteless. For those who didn't see it, think the most crude versions of bathroom humor, female breasts, and general boorishness.

Men can be every bit as boorish as women, the only difference is that it isn't acceptable for men to be this way. There probably was a time when similar things weren't acceptable for women "in mixed company" but now we celebrate the empowered woman.

Empowered frat boys were equally boorish a generation ago...


INTP = Conservative?
Seriously, google INTP (and for those without a background in the social sciences, this is one of the 16 Myers/Briggs personality types).

Note how they aren't listing leftists amongst the people in this type. Just for fun, it would be interesting to see what percentage of the Townhall staff/authors are INTP and compare this against the statistical norm.

Escape from feminism...

You remind me of my wife. She is a MK raised in Tanzania. How did you escape the feminist influences on American culture?

And as to why our schools are a mess....
I just re-read Mary Grabar's comment on women in a resturaunt and can top it: women in an education class.

Yep, you gotta see it to believe it -- and these are folks becoming teachers. Any wonder why our schools are a mess????

I watched The View...
for the first time this week, just to see if it was really as ridiculous as I have been hearing it was. Sure enough it was. Mary G has made some very good points about women, especially those who consider themselves liberated, independent and above being called a lady, or Mrs. whoever unless its hyphenated. Women like this are ruthless, believe me I used to work for an insurance co, nothing but women on my floor, about 100 of us. Nice to your face but going for the jugular behind your back. I think it had something to do with our cycles, you know every month, when for about 5 days you become homocidal. Well there were at least half of us PMSing at the same time. Not a pretty sight.

Can you imagine a menepausal woman in the White House? It could get very very dangerous, especially for someone like Hillary. She is already laced up too tight. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned to the tenth power ain't nobody happy when momma ain't happy.

Anyway I can talk this way about women because I am one and I speak from experience. I am so glad that I don't have to be around a bunch of me. I am much happier taking care of our home and helping my husband with the farming. Fresh air, the outdoors and sunshine is much better than spending my days in some stuffy office, working for someone else.

When I need female role models
I look to the women of the New Testament: not only those great women of faith, spirituality, logic and intelligence whose names we know (Mary of Bethany, the cleansed Mary Magdalene, the prophetess Anna, Lydia, Priscilla, and the women whom Paul -- yes, Paul -- commends as his co-laborers in the Church), but those women whose names are lost to us, but who actually took initiative when acting on their faith (e.g. the woman with the issue of blood who pushed through a crowd to touch Jesus's robe; the Canaanite woman whose reply to Jesus's dismissal prompted him to heal her child).

I look to women from history who have made valuable contributions to music and literature: Clara Schumann, Jane Austen, the Bronte sisters, Emily Dickinson, George Eliot, and Flannery O'Connor.

I do NOT LOOK TO HOLLYWOOD. And I caution every girl within the sound of my voice, as I will caution every girl I meet: do not look to Hollywood. Do not look to celebrities. Do not look to ANYONE whose face ends up on the cover of People Magazine. And now, especially, do not look to the dimwits on The View. Their ideas -- if you can call them that -- spring from ignorance, vanity, and the most shallow of emotions (for all emotions are bound to be shallow if they are divorced from intellect; see Vonnegut's "Harrison Bergeron" as an unnerving illustration of this).

The women of The View, along with the Britney Spearses and the Paris Hiltons and the Jessica Simpsons and the rest of that noxious Hollywood tribe, are an embarrassment -- not simply to women, but to the entire human race. They're selling us on the idea that vacuity and shallowness are somehow "fun" and "attractive," and sadly enough, some people are buying it. But this irresponsibility is going to catch up to these women someday, as it will catch up to those who follow their every move and try to imitate them.

I agree with Grabar that St. Paul, Aristotle, and John Milton have many worthwhile things to say. But I can't agree that the dim-bulbs on The View are somehow representative of what women (particularly single women) truly are. I don't think it's possible for ANY small group to represent or to speak for an entire gender, even if they do seem to embody all the flaws associated with the "type." Mothers and fathers of girls: if your daughters stumble across these airheads and get the idea that giggling, inane chit-chat, and squealing are somehow "feminine," i.e. the way they're expected to behave, set your hands gently upon their shoulders and say, "This is NOT WHO YOU ARE. This is NOT WHO YOU'RE GOING TO BE. And it is certainly NOT WHO YOU HAVE TO BE."

Then point them in the direction of some Jane Austen, George Eliot, Eudora Welty, or Madeleine L'Engle; maybe mix in some Christina Hoff Summers, Tammy Bruce, Star Parker, and Suzanne Fields as well. And make sure they get plenty of Aristotle, Homer, Sophocles, Milton, and Shakespeare while you're at it.

Is Grabar trying to be funny?
Was this article, especially the part about women needing guidance, votes for single women causing problems, etc., meant to be taken seriously? As other commentators, have noted, both genders have their embarrassing examples, such as beer guzzling frat boys, strip club patrons, etc., as compared to silly giggly females, etc.

Incidentally, I don't recall Saint Paul saying what Grabar attributes to him at the beginning of this article.

Good work, commentator Pamela. You're comments are more intelligent than Grabar's article.

TO WAITAMINUTE
YOU WAITED TO LONG.............

Conservative women
I'll bet if you had a talk show featuring conservative women it would not be a squeal-fest.
Liberal women don't have anything of substance to say that will hold up under scrutiny because most of what they squeal about is emotion and not fact-based.

you can't be serious
So Graber doesn't want to vote? Needs a man to tell her what to think and educate her as they are what? Innately more intelligent?
This is the most ludicrous thing ive read on this site in a long time (which says quite alot)

You are not alone.
I can't agree with the generalizations made here because I'm sure not all women are this way. (And there are a lot of men who act stupidly as well.)

That said, I'm also a woman who can't stand groups of women chattering on about nothing. It amazes me how they can go on and on about their hair and shopping and what they're wearing or going to wear!

I guess I just hate frivolous conversation in general, regardless of who is doing it.

The View
The View and the girls ( I emphasize girls ) on it are an affront to educated women worldwide, and these women should tell ABC that they are embarrassed by the hosts of this show. They are ignorant liberals and lesbians, and ABC should be ashamed to present this drivel as news worthy.

Dee Jones

Disaster, divorce and diapers
"This was the danger of giving women the vote. The danger to conservatives (and the survival of this country) is the voting bloc of single women, i.e., those who lack the guidance of a man in the form of a husband or intellectual mentor. "

No, this is the problem of men and women both who proudly brag that they don't read a book from one year's end to the next, who think Borat is funny (or say they do) and who discovered their wee-wees in 1964 and haven't gotten over their fascination yet.

I don't hang around with women if I can help it, because most of them can't talk about anything but disaster, divorce and diapers or the things they are going to buy. I spent a "team building" luncheon at a table with a woman who dominated the conversation with gabble about her two year old and the SUV she was about to purchase, to the point where nobody else could even put in half a sentence without being overridden.

On the other hand, I have been part of a vigorouso discussion with my male friends as to whether Wayne Gretzky could have made it in a six team league, which my sister dismissed as irrelevant 'because Wayne wasn't even born back then!'

Perhaps the men who spend all their time discussing whether the Leafs will ever win another Stanley Cup or how anybody could possibly believe Michael Schumacher doesn't cheat should never have been given the vote -- and the men who think Borat is funny should not be allowed to make movies.

Perhaps you simply need to hang around with a better class of people. And turn the television off and read a book that's not about self help, divorce or diapers. And shut up about your kids and the Leafs.


Just once
I've only watched The View one time. After suffering a drop in testosterone that took two hours of porno to recover from I decided that it was definitely not for me. Then there was also the 15 point hit my IQ took which has just recently healed.

A Brave article
I am always impressed when anyone takes on the dogmas of our PC society because so many people have been inculcated by them that it is bound to be considered almost heretical.

Your wonderfully written piece dares to question the capabilities and therefore ,in Liberal eyes, the equality of women, something Larry Summers would obviously warn you against.

If may add something, while the evidence of the Liberal biases of so many women are evident seemingly everywhere two or more of them gather, I have yet to see a group of females who declaim Conservative positions in similar circumstances.

Perhaps Conservatives are just brighter and refuse to participate in a hen house. Or perhaps those gatherings are just more worthwhile and do not seem as frivolous and degrading as those like the View.

The View vs. The Man Show
The men on The Man Show, and I hope the men watching; do not take the show seriously. It is a tongue-in-cheek look at all things typically male. The girls on The View, and I fear, most of the women, and those less certain of their sex, that watch the show, do take themselves seriously. Therein lies the danger.

?????
What the &^%$ is "The View"?

Sounds like a cross between the Vagina Monologs and CBS Evening News With Katie Couric.

Soooo Right On...
...which is why at parties and gathering, I've always ended up with the guys, who were talking about interesting subjects, rather than the ladies, who generally gathered in the kitchen, and confined themselves to householdy things.

Mary you are so right.

The leftist View
I too only watched the View once and that was when Starr Jones was still on. We have Men's and Women's Bible studies in the church. Our Pastor leads one and the result is capeable Godly women who look at things through the teachings of the Bible. They are very interesting. My wife is a smart capeable woman who was not crippled intellectually by taking women's studies at the University. We do not always agree but she is always interesting to converse with. Thank God I married a good woman.

Super Mario
It is NOT possible for conservative women to be as inane as these bimbos on the view. I used to have a smidgen of respect for Barbara Walters because of her journalist background, but over the last two decades, that tiny bit of respect has dwindled to below zero.

The View
You could probably add Martin Luther to the list of historical figures also. I think he viewed women as the troublemakers of the sexes who needed to be married off as young as possible to keep them in line.

I've never watched "The View". Every entertaining segment on that show makes it to a newscast anyway. The food network and HGTV has more entertaining, serious, and useful shows. I wonder if Rosie will sink the View like she did McCalls magazine?

I would like to see more columns and discussions addressing the issue of female leadership, because over the last few years, I have questioned the ability of women in authoritative roles. I think Ann Coulter stated that you are more likely to be shot by a female police officer than a male officer. It makes sense if you think about it. Ann herself wanted to level the Middle East after 9-11. Are women really the more peace-loving sex? Us women by nature seem to be more controlling. We favor socialist policies.We try to change the men we marry. We compete with each other through our children, homes, clothes, etc; that is we seem more materialistic. Over the last few decades we have been force fed that women are good and men are bad. I'm really tired of it.
Sometime for the fun of it, watch both the old and new versions of Cheaper by the Dozen. If you were a kid today, which household would you rather be a member of? The one where Father is the authority and both parents are competent and respected, or the one where the mom is still competent and respected, but the dad is incompetent and wrong about most things? Maybe it's my age, but I think the first one is still funnier too.

Independent Woman
Married for 20 years, divorced and living alone for 20 years. I travel, run my own business and eat out alone (with reading material. The truly liberated woman can eat out alone! Don't need a feminist organization to help me, I help myself. More than two women together - the talk becomes trivial and inane, as on The View. Hard to be serious in soundbites! Baby and bridal showers are so boring! Avoid them, if possible. Cleavage is annoying. I have ample boobs and keep them covered. I prefer to be viewed as intelligent, thoughtful and interesting.

Every day
when I go to workout at my health club, I am subjected to the women there turning on the View on several of the TV's in the bank of TVs before us. As a woman, this show embarasses me because of the frivilous prattle and annoying giggling. It doesn't matter to me whether they are discussing politics or anything else, I know women are capable of more. And that "soft" interview of Hillary was truly annoying. Consider if a male presidential candidate was interviewed in such a non-serious manner. If people are concerned about whether a woman is up to such an important office as the presidency, this interview did nothing to answer their concern.

Every day
when I go to workout at my health club, I am subjected to the women there turning on the View on several of the TV's in the bank of TVs before us. As a woman, this show embarasses me because of the frivilous prattle and annoying giggling. It doesn't matter to me whether they are discussing politics or anything else, I know women are capable of more. And that "soft" interview of Hillary was truly annoying. Consider if a male presidential candidate was interviewed in such a non-serious manner. If people are concerned about whether a woman is up to such an important office as the presidency, this interview did nothing to answer their concern.

The View
I can't help but be reminded of the song out of that old play/movie, "The Music Man." Remember "Pick a little, talk a little,pick a little, talk a little, cheep, cheep, cheap, talk a lot, pick a little more." ??? These women constribute absolutely nothing to the good of society.

Generalizing isn't helpful
I never watch "The View" because I have never thought it represented women well at all. When I see clips and hear some of the statements from the show, I am constantly amazed at how ridiculous it is.

However, this article seems to generalize and lump most women into the same category. There are all different kinds of women. Many of them can giggle with their friends over something trivial, yet are still able to read a classic and conduct an intelligent conversation about it. I have a lot of women friends who enjoy discussing theology and philosophical topics as well as politics. Some of them even have their own thoughts...can you imagine?

I do find it strange that our young women are idolizing people like Paris Hilton and Jessica Simpson, with no real response from the feminists. Whenever I think of the old phrase "We've come a long way, Baby", I have to laugh. When I was a teen, we didn't have to go without underwear to get attention from boys, so exactly how have we progressed?

The View
Mary nailed it. I too have never watched it and have only seen snips on news programs when "events" like this happen. I have no interest in watching. After working full time for 25 years I am now a stay at home mom with a very part time job. I would rather watch The Rockford Files rather than these 4 goofs. They are a perfect example of the feminization of our culture. Where are the men in these women's lives? Oops, I forgot, Rosie is the man in her life. Gag me. If the news programs would stop giving this show publicity it would die a natural death.

Out of control
Barbara Walters and/or ABC has allowed "The View" TV show to become completely out of control! Shame on both of them. Who would want to watch that hour of garbage? If that poor excuse for entertainment is going to stay on the air, ABC needs to clean house and get an entirely new cast! I do not watch the stupid thing, I almost throw-up from watching news clips of the show or reading in the newspaper or internet about the stupid things they say or do.

Fighting the Fight
I agree with jcthomasva:
Elizabeth Hasselbeck is awesome! She is a conservative woman and she has consistently (if subtly) higlighted the idiocy of the feminazis.

Great job Elizabeth!

The Partriage Family
FOX News (all the news *I* need to know) was rerunning a clip of Hillary on the View.

Anyone over the age of 40 remembers a '70s classic known as the Partrige Family - a spinoff of the Brady Bunch that had a bunch of kids singing songs as their mother drove them around in a multicolored bus.

Hillary looked like the mother. Dead ringer.

Now women change their appearances for effect.
And hence the effect she wanted to have is.
And thus....

sniggle, snort...
After two minutes of it I have regained enough compsure to add in.
In speech class way backawhen I gave an impromptu, tongue-in-cheek somewhat on this matter. I predicted that men would be forced to recind the vote from women and resort, if necessary, to a might makes right course of action to make it so. I stand by that.
Peppermint: I need to say there are a lot of boring men out there who can't carry on a conversation if it doesn't involve sports, cars, and TV. Not to mention "guiding" a woman anywhere other than to their flat screen TV.

Now, it would be nice if we all could find this Mr. Right to "guide" us but that is not always available, then a woman does what a woman needs to do.

Pirate:Men can be every bit as boorish as women, the only difference is that it isn't acceptable for men to be this way.

beachmom: I'll bet if you had a talk show featuring conservative women it would not be a squeal-fest.

On the other hand, I have been part of a vigorouso discussion with my male friends as to whether Wayne Gretzky could have made it in a six team league, which my sister dismissed as irrelevant 'because Wayne wasn't even born back then!'

Perhaps the men who spend all their time discussing whether the Leafs will ever win another Stanley Cup or how anybody could possibly believe Michael Schumacher doesn't cheat should never have been given the vote -- and the men who think Borat is funny should not be allowed to make movies.

Elizabeth Hasselback



A challenge
I agree with 95% of what Grabar says in her column; and I suspect that the other 5% -- the presumption that somehow these "View" dimwits are typical of what women are bound to become if they don't have a husband to guide them -- is hyperbole for the purpose of provocation. She's laying down a CHALLENGE, and we can either rise to it or get our precious widdle feewings hurt and walk away to lick our wounds (all the while doing absolutely nothing to change the situation). Larry Summers similarly laid down a challenge, and look what happened. I'm beginning to think that we women have a terrible, destructive enemy, and it isn't Men or Society: it's ourselves. Too often we concern ourselves with surfaces, with appearances, and too rarely do we bother to consider these important questions: what do we stand for? What would we die for? And above all, who are we when we're alone? What do we think, believe, and do when no one's looking?
("Who are you when you're alone?" is a question I encourage ALL my students, male and female, to ask themselves.)

We get all huffy when someone asserts that we can't do something, but we fail to take up the challenge and prove them wrong. I can recall a student whose intelligence was at least three times that of the COMBINED IQs of all the women on The View. Her literature professor told his class, "The girls would be well-advised to drop, because girls aren't smart enough to pass my class. Girls really aren't smart enough to analyze literature."
Most of her female classmates dropped the class that same day. But this student stuck with it and proved him wrong. She earned an A in his class. This was the best possible answer to his assertion.

The women on The View present us with a frightening picture of what happens when we cut ourselves loose from the past, and when we decide that "independence of mind" means "never learning from others." The truth is that all of us, male and female, benefit immeasurably from the wise guidance of others, particularly our elders. We benefit from curiosity about the world outside our own back-yard, and we benefit from reading and exploring many different ideas and testing them out to see which ones hold true. When a girl or woman actively seeks truth, and then makes her own contribution to that truth, then she is NOT the "typical woman" dim bulb of The View. No matter what path she chooses in life -- whether she becomes a writer like Flannery O'Connor, a mathematician like Ada Lovelace, or a stay-at-home mom like those many women whose names we don't know but whose contributions George Eliot extols in the conclusion of her great novel "Middlemarch" -- she will be the woman of Proverbs 31, the woman of wisdom and virtue whose price is far above rubies.

Now, are we up to the challenge???

INTJ to INTP
75% of women are XXFX, which implies that emotions play a greater role in their "thinking" than logic and rationality. This is the audience for The View and a lot of other silly things. It's probably brain chemistry related to mommiehood. Do the math. Three fourths of half the female voting population make emotional-based decisions. Men statistically are 35% type XXFX. This difference explains a lot, including the pathological liberal base in this country.

Finally...
A reasonable assessment of an inane assemblage. Mary Grabar MUST listen to Dr. Laura Schlessinger as well. Spot on, Mary! And the majority of the posts (there are a couple left-leaning viewpoints... no pun intended) are all in line with my thinking. Ergo, I must conclude - conservative women have morals, values, intelligence, common sense, strength, grit, ethics, and are self-posessed while liberal women have... coffee-clatches.

are unsupervised women dingbats?
There is much to agree with in this article, but the author goes too far. The condition of most women, emotionally and intellectually, remains terrible, and this problem is political and cultural, not intrinsic to gender.
Those who have been elevated to celebrity status are generally shallow as most politicians, most of whom are male. Very few women have the leisure to develop themselves toward independence and entire moral seriousness in how they interact with others. Meanwhile, have some compassion for the ways we prop each other up as we age, are dumped by husbands, are undereducated or afraid of trespassing into male turf. The View is unwatchable for me, but to generalize from this idiot program to all female friendship is outrageous. I have often been in social situations where the initial persiflage can be redirected with some probing questions and other tactful interventions.
This was not a constructive essay, though I understand where the author is coming from.

Radical Bigotry
So - you're just deliberately unfamiliar with the history of womens rights, is that it? Along with history generally?

But, as always eager to write a lot of words in the hope that they'll mean something?

Well, how's that working out for you these days?


Ah, The Lefty Liberal Mind
"Dialog" with a Lib-

Me: Do you think The View has any redeeming qualities?

Lib: Bush is evil, my car has a flat and you suck.

So tiresome...

Fire Burn and Cauldron Bubble

Albert Jay Nock was right! I paraphrase: "Giving the vote to women was a great mistake. Men were already doing a perfectly marvelous job mucking things up. All we did was double our trouble."

Ask any cable guy, or service person....
About the general type (mental and physical)woman that they find while visiting and working within the home. Those with the view, or like minded shows, are a class upon themself.

They generally have the I.Q of room temperture in an unheated home in January.

The physical stamina of jello, that's been setting out a little too long.

The common sense of a trust fund baby from Connecticut.

The mothering skills of a Michael Jackson. *no typo!

A gang of clowns
This silly program, which I am so proud to say I have never watched, is an embarrassment.

Loudmouth 1 and Loudmouth 2, and we know who those are, live in a world where they think everyone has their political views. Hence, the shocked look on Loudmouth 2's face at the reaction of the audience to her statement of Mr. Rumsfeld being like Hitler.

Loudmouth 1 is ... ugh.

Narrow-minded sterotyping
Geez, Grabar you sound as bad as Adams. That's it, just lump all single-women into one pot.

Most university graduates have also read the philosophers, taken algebra, calculus, science, foreign language, history as part of their undergrad studies as this course work is required. Most single-female university graduates exhibit divergent characteristics.

Graber, you claim to have read the philosophers, but have you taken any logic courses. You committed the hasty generalization fallacy with this bs article.

Without respect, nor appreciation,


Starspangledblogger
I love the idea of "The Right View". The MSM completely dominates the airwaves with left leaning shows, and they get their dander up because we have one channel, Fox News.

Anybody out there with a lot of money prepared to start "The Right View"? And many other programs that would lean to the right? Another 24 hour right-wing entertainment channel? Where the late night comedians would be right wing. Where each show/program would be right wing.

I wonder how the MSM is reporting the Sandy- Berger-documents-in-pants-transferred-to-under-a-trailer story? Only Fox so far is reporting it.

Not just documents
Left out an important word: should read "classified-documents".

Emotionalism
I was listening to the Glen Beck Show on Tuesday and the guest host was talking about the un-electibility of Obama.

A woman called in, sounding agitated, who said she would vote for Obama because he represents what is best (or the potential for the "best") about America.

Ah! A vote for the Most Powerful Man on Earth based on purely symbolic, emotional reasons! How comforting to know that when the Jihad has to face Obama as C-in-C, they'll be facing the poster-child of multicultural idealism.

That should put a scare into them. That, and his vast reserves of experience and gravitas.

I shudder to think that some people out there use such thought processes to determine their vote.

Can you be serious?
Your opinion about the general intellectual quality of "The View" aside, I found nearly every word of this article hellaciously offensive. There should be no aspersion cast on those who use life experiences like parenting to garner valuable leadership skills. It has finally become accepted that, indeed, Bush's policies are endangering the survival of the planet. The idea that a woman is too "illogical" to vote without the guidance of a man is so unbelievable that I can't even comment on it.

As a young, professional (and single) female in an extremely male-dominated technical field, I have often been irked by the idea that because I have a brain for math and physics and philosophy, that should somehow preclude me from enjoying being a girl. Yes I like to shop. I get my hair done regularly. I love dishing with my girlfriends. But I am also one of many females I know who is well read, intellectually curious, and entirely able to run her own life without the guidance of a good man.

The View
The View is a daytime piece of fluff that should never have had the effrontery to take itself seriously. Other than Barbara Walters who at least had displayed some small measure of journalistic chops and Meredith Viera who could at least to a small extent be taken seriously, Star Jones' training was as an attorney (and I've worked for those dudes for 25 years - they're book smart but for the most part not "life smart"), the original ditz and the current ditz are neither one of them well educated, and both Rosie O'Donnell's and Joy Behar's qualifications were as stand-up comedians!

Rather than write snarky articles demeaning your fellow females, Ms. Grabar, entertaining and on point though you may be about The View, I would submit it to be more productive to write directly to ABC and ABC News as I do when they really have crossed the line. And I submit that Ms. Walters' proposed interview with the not-yet-room-temperature Fidel Castro (accompanied by Hugo Chavez) is far more worth your ire than those frivolous and ultimately irrelevant ditzes on The View.

roro - You Missed The Whole Point

And then made it over again for Mary Grabar just by saying your piece.

Women, in general, TEND to function out of a nurturing side. Men,the non-castrati at least, TEND to function out of a logical, reasoning side.

Let a group of women loose without reasonable guidance and you get, well, The View.

I've never seen it, but now that I know there is cleavage.....

Happy news
Trump went on Fox this morning saying he may sue Rosie for her mouthy assault on him. Maybe if a few people did that to these hens they would keep their silly mouths shut.
Why that lesbo thinks she has anything to say that means anything, is a question I would like
answered.
Walters used to be respected she has lost all of that with this silly show.

I WAS going to comment on this article
But the problem is, after I read this:

"Women, without male guidance, are illogical, frivolous, and incapable of making any decisions beyond what to make for dinner."

I stopped reading.

You convinced me so thoroughly of your thesis, that I decided not to waste my time reading the opinions of a woman. Well done. Now make me a pie.

Oh, I got the point...
...and "nurturing" versus "logical" had nothing to do with it. Ms. Grabar dismisses women's ability to be independent, and then bashes women for not being intellectual. Which is it? Should we uphold family values and stay home with our kids --which evidently turns us into the clucking chickens who watch The View -- or should we carve out an independent intellect, study philosophy, learn to hate to shop, and turn out like those tree-hugging, marajuana smoking hippies or (gasp!) Hilary Clinton who obviously must be lesbians because they don't need a man? What is the suggestion here? Mine, if it's not clear, is that a woman can be intellectual and a housewife, or logical yet unmarried, or somehow get through grad school and a hefty resume of ancient philosophers without realizing that some women can do the same without the guidance of a man.

exactly right
This article hits the proverbial nail on the head. Just watch the adoring female fans in the audience of the Oprah Show. No matter how silly or inane Oprah becomes, the fawning women in the audience go gah-gah over her presence. They will vote for whomever Oprah tells them to vote for, they will read anything Oprah tells them to read, they have no independent common sense of their own. Rosie is just a militant white Oprah.

Granny would say
"Oh honey, just hush up." We single, working women have more to do than sit around and giggle about whether some celebrity is good in bed or blabber about their clothes and their children and what a rat their ex husbands are. Many of us are in fact cleaning up after the men who abandoned our sisters and their children to run off with the baby sitter, the Hooters waitress or one of their students.

I believe there is enough low IQ to cover men and women both.

A man who thought like you do once nearly killed us both because when I said the car had a hole in the manifold and the air conditioner was pulling CO into the car, he told me that girls didn't know anything about cars. (I was 35 at the time). We made it home although he was very sick by the time we did (driving from Virginia to Toronto). When he took the car to the garage, they told him exactly what I had told him. The next day he broke the engagement. And good riddance. If I had waited to be "guided" by him I'd be dead.

Boo hoo for the view
As an intellectual and educated woman, it embarasses me that women like those on the view are the ones who get attention. They are inane. I would love to see a talk show with Malkin, Coulter, et al. But the men who run the networks don't think anyone would watch. Boy, are they wrong. But heh, more reality shows for the masses, right? More Victoria Secret bra shows. That's the ticket. I still remember in the '80's before Sally Ride went into space as the first American woman (the Russians had already sent one), a male American astronaut was asked what we would do with women in space. His answer: "The same thing we do with them down here." So, I say, thank God for Star Trek. A lot of us little girls grew up believing that there was and is a place for us in the adult world. The women on the view didn't, and don't belong there. Freak show, anyone?

Just who are the women
who watch shows like this? None of my women friends watch it. But, then we are all busy working. Whether we have husbands or not most of us are working at something, have educations, read books, etc.
So where does anyone find time to watch this drivel?

I don't agree with those that say women should not vote. I think that there should be an IQ test for people before they vote, both men and women.

And, a test prior to voting to see if the voter has any idea who they are voting for. When Sean Hannity does his "man on the street" bit if anyone has ever heard it, most of the people he talks to can't even name who the vice president is much less anything else. This is truly scary when you think of these people voting.

And I agree with someone who said we need a right wing all girls show. Ann Coulter, Malkin, to name a couple would be good starts. Why isn't there anything like that? Are conservative women too small of an audience?

I think I'll write Fox and ask them.


Women and The View
Thank you, Mary, for a great article, although I disagree with the idea that women shouldn't vote and that we need a man to guide us. My dad died when I was 9. I owe my independent, conservative, and inquisitive mind to my mother, who wasn't involved with coffee-klatches and the sort of gatherings where women turn into blithering idiots. My son spent a semester in Europe a few years ago. At one point he called home to tell me how silly the girls in the group were. He couldn't stand the crying, the constant pre-occupation with looks, and the non-stop chatter. I had to apologize to him for not explaining sooner that the majority of females are much more emotion-based than those in my family. Quite a shock for the poor boy! I'm still praying for a good, intelligent young lady for him. For those of you who have proposed the 'Right View', I'd definitely watch it!!

drolmorg
I was being facetious about the IQ part. But, I still think it is scary that people who have no idea who/what they are voting on. It would be really good if people were making "informed" decisions rather than getting their ideas from political ads and drive by sound bites off of the alphabet soup news outlets.

For example a neighbor of mine thought that when Bush proposed a social security idea of investing part of your money into stocks that that was it.
He thought you could no longer have any of that tax money put into Social Security. So, I hear these kinds of things from people when they don't take the time to read up on an issue and find out exactly what is being proposed.

Also AARP and some other organizations ran ads stating that senior citizens SS would be taken away. Some people believed this.

Another misnomer I hear is that Bush created NAFTA and took our jobs away, when NAFTA was launched in 1994, under Clinton's term and it involved US, Canada and Mexico.

Just a couple of examples.



STARSPANGLEDBLOGGER
I like your idea for the "Right View". Coulter, Malkin, Laura Ingraham, and Dr. Laura as moderator....what a great line-up. FOX are you listening?

Nothing New
I've been online for many years, and this type of article is nothing new. It's called "Trolling."

Huh
oldtimer are you talking about Mary's article ? If so ask your nurse to empty your bedpan and give you your meds.

I don't watch
the View. All I have ever seen was clips on other channels quoting some of the nonsensical blathering of those "women". I am sure of one thing though.


Rosie O'Donnel is a gross, slimy, ignorant and totally reprehensible disgrace. She is a crude, sexually deviant, and totally offensive embarrassment to not only women, but to human beings.


Now I would like to really begin to tell you what I think about that creep. Ooops! I almost forgot. I am on Town Hall. I have to watch what I say.

Thanks
for this article. In today's world it took courage to write it. Please include me on your list of fans.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and your loved ones.

Did daddy write this for you, sweets?
Sister, how did you manage to type this tripe without a good, strong man there to guide you? If you feel that women are too intellectually challenged to vote, why in God's name should anyone then take seriously anything you night have to say -= after all, you're just one of those ditzy women who are so badly in need of male guidance. And your comments about what "typical" women like to do, think about, or talk about reveal nothing more than your own ignorance and close-mindedness, except perhaps how shallow the women of your acquantance must be. Blithely generalizing about more than half the human race based on viewing of a daytime TV talk show reveals much more about your own intellectual and emotional limitations than it does about American women in general.

Don't brag about reading philosophy
The phrase that should have made Mary stop writing and delete the artical was "I'm not a typical woman." She wants to see herself as being an individual, but refuses to see most others that way. That's why she utterly fails and why most of the philosophers she's read would smack her on the nose with a rolled up newspaper and say "NO!"

Of course many people will gravitate to easy stereotypes and label themselves and group up. There's safety in that. It's not a female thing, it's a human thing and largely an animal thing. Women who identify soley as being women and who want to just discuss women's issues have ghettoized themselves and what they will think about. Men who identify soley as being men will do the same. People who identify entirely with a political party will do the same, or with a religion, or a race, etc. After making a limited identity and having any sized group of support for that identity, the person will largely give up their individuality and the limited views of their group become unasailable laws to them, making debate and discussion impossible past a very limited point.

My goodness
It certainly sounds as if this aricle was written by a misogynist, self loathing woman.

Sign me-

Female shrink who often loves what other women do with their hair.

From an unusual INFP...
Not all "feeling" types of women, like me, agree with those of the View. I am an ultra-conservative woman who can't stand this show and the women that supposedly represent all woman. I think lesbians should go back into the closet and, and I basically don't agree with these silly women's points of view on the VIEW and wish they the network would give them the boot.

Like you, I'm not a typical woman. I don't care to shop, especially at malls. I enjoy saving money rather than spending it. I'm somewhat of a skinflint. I don't like gathering with a bunch of catty women, as I would rather be at home. I enjoy getting together with one sweet friend at a time. I don't worry about trivial items like getting pedicures and such.

I do enjoy dressing modestly, yet I truly and fully enjoy my feminity... in private. I love to wear my favorite perfume and watch my future husband drool with desire, waiting patiently for the day that we can enjoy each other. So yes, there is a real woman inside of me.

I choose to drive a Volvo that has a sticker "She's a child, not a choice". I never thought I would relish proclaiming my passionate point of view to the world, but I do.

One of the few things that I am glad about feminisim is that I'm glad that I can vote for a thinking and thoughtful president - I love President Bush! I just hate it that some women vote because of looks or whatnot rather than a man of substance.

I do think that there are women, like me, despite our full feelings and feminity, who also have a strong sense of thinking... and would be able to lead well. If I had to choose between John Kerry and Condoleeza, I fully believe that Condi would be a great president. I can't say that about a lot of women, however. She is a diamond in the rough.

I don't necessarily agree with you that ALL women need full male guidance to rationally think on their feet. That's too much of a generalization for me. After being divorced for 15 years, I do want a strong man in my life to help lead me and my family, however, despite it all, I think I have done alright.

Thankfully, the man in my life enjoys me for who I am, knowing that I can think quite rationally as well.

John Mccain
I could not believe how disrepectful the women were on the view.Now I know why I have never care to watch the show.They are very rude and should take a long look at there selfs.They should be ashamed how they talk to sentor Mccain,I felt so sorry for him.I do not see how Elizbeth put up with them.
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