Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Wednesday, February 27, 2008
Maggie Gallagher :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Truth About Nationalized Healthcare
by Maggie Gallagher
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Hillary Clinton opened fire on Barack Obama across an array of issues, but saved the really big guns for health care: "Of all our differences," said Hillary in Rhode Island (the forgotten primary state), "the one that is just inexplicable to me is his refusal to put forth a plan on universal health care and his continuing attacks on my plan to do so."

How hard can it be to offer a universal health care plan? "John Edwards had a plan, I had a plan, Chris Dodd had a plan, Dennis Kucinich had a plan, Bill Richardson had a plan. Because we're Democrats ..." Clinton said.

But Obama, in his Bob the Builder campaign designed to appeal to the toddler in every American, offers a plan that is all gain and no pain: subsidized health insurance for anyone who wants to buy it, whenever they want to buy it. More money, more choice, no cost. Gee, what's not to like?

Nothing, except that Hillary is correct. Obamacare can't possibly work, because it doesn't make sense to buy insurance when you are young and healthy if you are guaranteed access anyway when you are older and sicker.

And that's the problem.

The exchange between the two Democrats highlights the dirty little secret that not even Hillary will tell you about a universal government health insurance program. The problem with our current system that mandatory national health insurance will solve is not that people don't get health care -- it's that they don't pay for it.

Young healthy folks are more and more likely to go without health insurance. That means the pool of insured people is older and sicker and, therefore, more expensive to insure. Health insurance premiums rise, which makes health insurance an even worse deal for the relatively young and healthy, guaranteeing that more and more twentysomethings are uninsured, and health insurance costs for us middle-aged and older folks skyrocket.

What kind of people in the U.S. are uninsured? A whole lot of people like Brandy Coons, a 23-year-old Atlanta waitress highlighted on the front page of The New York Times as the new face of the "free rider" problem. Brandy admits she could probably afford a policy if she cut back on her gym membership and her photography hobby, but why should she do that?

"I'm young and in pretty good shape ... The insurance premium was more than what I would pay for my prescriptions, so I just decided not to deal with it," Coons said.

But even The New York Times cannot admit the real "free rider" problem here. It's not that the health care needs of uninsured twentysomethings like Brandy are bankrupting the system. It's that not enough twentysomethings like Brandy are paying for the health care of fortysomethings and older. That's the only way insurance makes sense: We pay into it when we are young and healthy, and we get something out of it when we are older and more likely to get sick.

But try running on that as your platform: Make the young people pay more!

Here's the other dirty little secret: National health insurance is going to cost Brandy and other taxpayers a whole lot more than either Hillary or Obama admits. Just ask Gov. Deval Patrick in Massachusetts, where just two years into operation, the state's mandatory health insurance plan is already costing $400 million more than budgeted.

Meanwhile we have a Medicare system that is going to go bankrupt.

Here's a question neither Hillary nor Barack will answer: How can we justify spending billions to insure the Brandys of the worlds, when we haven't yet secured the health care financing for our existing promises to senior citizens?

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author

Maggie Gallagher is a nationally syndicated columnist, a leading voice in the new marriage movement and co-author of The Case for Marriage: Why Married People Are Happier, Healthier, and Better Off Financially.

Be the first to read Maggie Gallagher's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

Price gouging drug companies and hospita
Health care is outlandishly expensive primarily because hospitals and drug companies price gouge to the the tune of 900% markups on products and services.


Getting government
COMPLETELY out of the healthcare equation would be a start. But don't count on that happening anytime soon with so many Americans believing that they are "entitled" to free health care.

Also, stopping illegal aliens from receiving free health care would be good. They should have to prove citizenship before being given free ER services. Crossing the border to give birth to babies who are then given automatic U.S. citizenship status should be stopped as well.

Really!
Why worry about health care when we can just spend a trillion year on war.

Killing people for American "interests" (that is more profits for rich people) always takes priority over spending money on saving lives!

Nationalized Healthcare
The argument always begins-We're supposed to be the greatest country in the world and a little less than half of our citizens can't afford or don't have medical insurance, then comes the kicker, countries like Canada and Cuba who have nationalized healthcare have better systems in place for their citizenry than we do.
Then Micheal Moore weighs in with "Sicko" adding to the confusion and misconception about nationalized healthcare. Yet citizens from those perfect bastions of "free" healthcare still find there way to our shores in vast numbers to get adequate medical treatments, but I've never heard of a single story of anyone including the millions of uninsured American citizens leaving in droves to get free medical offshore. Now here comes the kicker, even rich people like some of our left-wing loonies in hollywood which in cludes Micheal Moore himself won't make the trip I wonder why?

The Carrot Story
Trying to explain to the toddlers in America who believe they can have everything they want the nanosecond they want it and somebody else will pay, that price matters not if there is not product, I generally begin with a story my Latvian friend told me.

A woman stopped at a black market farmer stall and asked *How much are your carrots?* *$2.00 a bunch,* said the farmer.

*WHAT?* said the woman in shock. *At the government store I can get them for 25 cents!*

*So shop at the government store.*

*I went by there but they have no carrots.*

*So,* said the farmer, *come back here when I have no carrots and I will sell them for 25 cents too.*

Canada has FREE health care and when you need it you cannot get it. Unfortunately they forbid all other options save fleeing to the border; this is why 85% of Canadians live within 2 hours of the border. (Canada is 3000 miles long and 120 miles wide.) Save for the nomenklatura and the apparatchiks who can jump the queue, Canadians are free to die on a waiting list, and the dedicated socialists are happy to see their children die as long as a rich child dies five minutes before their own. Only of course the rich children never do. Rich kids go across the border and pay cash.

Fla
We have in Fl, WELL CARE, and it is under investigation for frauding the Government for 300% charges over the actual cost. They stated that they needed to help compinsate for the FREE medical care that Illegals/poor get today.

The George SOROS funded WELL CARE was frauding
Medicare and Medicade by a total of 20 million excess a year , this is what is going to happen if you have free medical. There still will be people who will FRAUD the Government at will if this happens and who is there to catch the FRAUD if its free. NOONE, why, because its FREE and who shoulkd care


The government didnt make me have children I did, so why do I want the Government, to be responsible for my stupidity. If everything is going to be FREE then who will pay when people are lining up to sue the GOVERNMENT for mistreatments. This is a LAWYERS HAVEN if this ever happens. Who will be paying for LAWYERS and Faud. YOU and I. I bet the BREK GIRL
will be in line with a big grin on his face if this happens. He sure will be able to build him a bigger house with YOUR MONEY and be laughing all the way to the BANK

NOTHING IS EVER FREE someone will always figure out a way to FRAUD this PROGRAM.

The Main people who will benefit this is LAWYERS
not the American People

Isn't housing important too?
Imagine "Universal Shelter" where the government decides what housing everyone receives - and everyone gets the same. You don't get to pick your apartment, you live with the neighbors as they are assigned by the state.

How about "Unversal Nutrition" where you no longer need to push a shopping cart; you just take the grocery bags they give you.

Why do people think "Universal Healthcare" will be any better?

cornpone harry
Please cite your sources for the price-gouging figures you state. And while you're at it, explain exactly how one arrives at a percentage mark-up figure for a service.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

I am not holding my breath waiting for your reply.

What Maggie leaves out
She writes:

"Young healthy folks are more and more likely to go without health insurance. That means the pool of insured people is older and sicker and, therefore, more expensive to insure. Health insurance premiums rise, which makes health insurance an even worse deal for the relatively young and healthy, guaranteeing that more and more twentysomethings are uninsured, and health insurance costs for us middle-aged and older folks skyrocket."

I like Maggie, but this sounds like an argument for HillaryCareLite. What Maggie leaves out is (1) forcing the healthy (regardless of their age) to pay for the health care of the sick is socialism and (2) the "older and sicker" also make a lot more money than the younger. The "older and sicker" are also the 'older and richer'.

If the government would just get its big nose and its ten thumbs out of the health care industry the market would solve about 95-98% of these problems on its own. And the remaining 2-5% can be handled the same way states handle "high-risk" drivers of automobiles.

The bottom line is that there is no good way to force one person to pay for another's health care. And we haven't even gotten to the subject of forcing healthy, fit, non-smokers and non-drinkers who get exercise and generally lead healthy lifestyles to pay for the 'repair' of the bodies of the fat, the lazy, the smokers, the drinkers, the drug users, the promiscuous, and others who don't take care of themselves and then demand that society 'fix' their body when it breaks down from abuse or lack of maintenance.

Romney's health care plan
As governor of Massachusetts, Romney signed into law an effective health care plan that delivers health care to every Massachusetts citizen. And it involves private insurers so that price competition exists. It is NOT a Government single-payer system like Canada.

Now why doesn't the GOP tout Romney's plan as a success?

Because their own base doesn't want it or ANY OTHER health care plan as far as I can tell.

The Romney plan depended not on Government handouts but on a mandate: You MUST buy insurance or pay a penalty. That's no different from the requirement that I must have auto insurance to drive on an Interstate highway. Or the requirement that I must get my car inspected, at MY OWN EXPENSE, every year. If I drive an uninspected car without the inspection sticker on the window, and a cop notices it, I also have to pay a penalty. Compliance is forced by law.

I wonder if the GOP base would do away with that too if they could.

for wiseone
wiseone writes: "And the remaining 2-5% can be handled the same way states handle "high-risk" drivers of automobiles."

FYI, some 47 state governments MANDATE compliance with auto insurance. You must have auto insurance to drive on an Interstate highway. Didn't you know that?

You must also have inspected your car every year or every other year, at your own expense. That's by state law too. If a cop stops you and your car's inspection sticker has expired, he will write a citation for that.

So the government is hardly out of the auto insurance market. In fact, they mandate expansion of the pool in 47 out of 50 states.


Cornpone Harry is right on overcharges
Some inner-city hospitals do mark up their "sticker-price" of services by 900%. They have to because they are mandated by law to provide free healthcare to everyone who walks into the emergency room door regarless of their bility to pay, or even show proof of a valid address to send the bills to, let alone proof of citizenship, or even that they truly are indegent.

Where does the hospital get the money to operate the state-of-the-art ER's with their multi-million dollar CT, MRI, PET, scanners, 24/7 on-call neuro, vascular, trauma, orthopedic, surgeons, techs, nurses, etc. providing all that "free" healthcare? Are we asking physicians with 12 years of college and post-graduate education to take minimum wage when working on indegents? Get real. ALL hospitals cost shift to those with insurance or with cash to cover the free-bees. As more and more illegals show up, the percentage of what you call gouging, has to go up to pay the salaries of the skilled staff, the electric and heating bills, cleaning staff to keep the sterile rooms sterile, etc.

Free Health care.
It would be nice to have free care of any kind. Free is good. Go back a 15 years to the old Russia where everything was free. They had a free health care system. Every worker could go to a doctor and get free tea leaves to cure just about anything. 95% of the work force had free health care if they dare risk their lives. If you were the 5% who were party workers you got better care, your lives were better and you got better food, a better home, a better car and freedom unknown to the rest of the workers.
The same will happen in America with free health care. Those who care afford or be part of the party will get the better health care and the rest of the workers will get tea leaves. If you think I'm jokeing ask any Russian who now lives in America about what is was like when everything was free to the workers.

Miss Gallagher
YOU FORGOT your Liberal Math:

Style=Substance

Feelings=Results

The cost of free healthcare
If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait to you see what it will cost when it's free!

There is enough truth in young workers avoiding the purchase of coverage and shrinking the risk pool, to driving the average policy cost up. But insurance companies don't help when they further carve up the pool into high and low risk, and uninsurable due to "existing conditions" like cancer, high blood pressure, diabetes, etc. Smaller pools of higher risk individuals drive them into the unafforable healthcare ranks, and even the uninsurable ranks. So there is guilt enough to go around.

The trade off seems to be balancing mandatory coverage with the loss of competition. The answer would be a lottery. If you wish to be licensed as a health insurer, you must accept applications from the pool of eligible Americans based on their birth certificates. Children of those already insured would most likely, for ease of administration, be assigned to the same company as their parents. All companies would maintain only one single pool and charge all in that pool the same rate. Competition between companies would be based on their ability to administer their plans most efficiently, not on how many high risk individuals they price out of coverage.

Like automobile insurance
If you want to drive a car, most states require a minimum level of coverage. Can we not require the same for healthcare? Minimum coverage in the form of catastophic coverage and high deductable ($5000) shall be offered to everyone. If you are unemployed American citizen, your unemployment checks will be garnished to cover the cost. If you have no insurance (illegal) we will treat you, then deport you, and send your country the bill, payable in pesos, euros, reals, or barrels of oil.

more to the story
Obama has been very clear that we need to get health care costs down, not just tax enough to pay for everything. Our system involves buying off doctors and politicians to push drugs. What some people call rationing in other countries is really limiting treatments to those that are truly needed.

Audi - I'll grant you that there are probably substantial problems with the Canadian health care system. I have an open mind. I wish conservatives were not so blind to see the problems with the US health care system. The deaths of those lacking insurance have been quantified here (18k/yr). Is there a comparabel number for Canada? It would also be helpful if conservatives could point to a single place on the planet where free markets are providing health care for everyone.

The Evil Pharmacueticals
I work at one of those evil, corrupt, price-gouging pharmacueticals the left/socialists love to bash. Besides providing jobs for over 500 people it takes millions of dollars and years of research (without profit) to bring a drug to the market. Any markup is designed to recover the cost so that the employees can stay employed and the company can research and provide more live-saving and quality-of-life-improving drugs.

Steve L
You are required to have LIABILITY insurance to drive a car. This to cover the damage you do to someone else in an accident. Whether or not you have collision insurance to cover damages to your own car is usually not a concern of the state. Of course, if people would be responsible, we wouldn't have to mandate minumum liability insurance.

Note the difference here. You must have coverage to compensate the "other guy" if the accident is your fault. Whether your insurance covers your loss is up to you. With mandated health insurance, you are forced to cover your own losses.

wiseone
That was Maggie's point. In order for Nationalized Health Care to work, everyone will be compelled to pay. I don't think she was advocating that any plan be implimented in that manner.

The real problem
Whether we want to admit it or not, the US health care system is very over-priced when compared with that of other countries. It makes simple sense that 10 MRI machines cost more than 1 such machine. A US city has 10 machines, a Canadian city has 1 with limited hours of use, so the Canadian system costs less. OF course, in the US you can get your MRI tomorrow, while in Canada you wait weeks or months, and hope you don't die in the meantime.

Hillarycare or Obamacare will foisted upon us as surely as night follows day unless something can be done to limit the cost of health care. The American economy cannot afford the ever-increasing cost of health care under the current system. American corporations cannot afford to compete with those in other countries who do not carry the same health-care costs.

But few if any are talking about actually reducing the cost of health care in the US. What is needed is:

(1) CUT THE LAWYERS OUT OF THE LOOP. Serious tort reform that would cut all malpractice suits except for the 1% or so of most egregious cases would make a huge reduction in health care costs.

(2) As much as possible, CUT THE DOCTORS OUT OF THE LOOP. All kinds of health care services and medications that require prescriptions shouldn't. Non-prescription services cost a tiny fraction of prescription services.

(3) Make health care coverage a taxable benefit. As soon as that happened, everyone would immediately switch from the current system to one where people had catastrophic-coverage only, and would shop for other services -- and the market would quickly bring prices down.

If we don't act to reduce the cost of health care, we will get stuck with a Canadian-style system. Don't doubt it.

Cam
Here's a few highlights of Universal Healthcare that most libs will not admit:

1)It will not be free. US citizens will still pay premiums just like they do now -except those premiums will be higher.

2)It will be mandatory. There will be no opt out clause. Everyone WILL BE COVERED whether the like it or not, or can afford it or not. Hillary admitted as much last month. The goverment will garnish wages to ensure all are covered.

3)There is already a shrinking number of Health Insurance companies out there. Prices continue to soar as these firms and the workers employers foot the majority of the bills. Just think what will happen when the goverment becomes the sole arbiter of health care and dictates to hospitals, doctors, and pharmeticueticals. Can you say rationing?

4)The pool of skilled doctors continue to shrink. What will happen when the goverment caps thier salaries? This already has occured in Europe. A GP's salary there is capped at $80,000. Europe now imports many if not most of its doctors from Third World nations.

The US should end the tax break that employers get for paying health care premiums, and make health care a truely private enterprise. This is the only thing that hasn't been tried, and the only thing that will work. BTW, Canada's health care is horrible. Emergency room waits can be as long as 15 hours.

Rationing health care
There are other secrets of Canadian style healthcare besides long waits that the libs will not tell you about. Besides the long lines for MRI's, CT's, knee and hip replacements (over two years of very painful waiting. Things like denying heart, lung, liver, or kidney transplants to anyone who was ever a smoker, IV drug abuser or alcoholic. On the plus side, I do understand their hospice care is pretty nice for all those who will have to die because their transplant is not covered.

Prescription drugs are NOT covered in Canada, but the prices are regulated. Name one new drug developed in Canada or any European nation for that matter that is currently available for sale in the US? The last one was thalidimide. We know how well that one worked out.

Of course, America is the other side of the coin, and we have too much health care. Why? because you can be sued as a doctor for NOT ordering that MRI, even if it turned out that the disease you missed would not have been seen on the MRI. THat is why we have more MRI machines in Miami than there are in ALL of Canada.

Scare Me!
What is frightening is that the uneducated left ( sorry for the oxymoron ) actually think that when we have universal health care, it will be free!
Hey, I have an idea..........Let's give the responsibilty of providing health care to the only agency that has been proven incredibly wastefull and absolutely ineffective with most other programs it has attempted. ( social security, welfare etc. ).

wiseone -- not so wise on this one
> forcing the healthy (regardless of their age)
> to pay for the health care of the sick is socialism

Not necessarily. For example, if you live in almost any US municipality, that municipality provides a fire department. Trucks, equipment, a building to park the trucks, communications equipment, and personnel (paid, volunteer, or a mix.) And if you live in that municipality, you pay for it through taxes (even if you are a renter, the rent covers the landlords tax.) What is that you say? You have never had a fire in your house? So you shouldn't have to pay for this fire service? Forcing people to pay for the fire service for those "others" whose houses have caught fire is socialism?

By this little analogy, I am not saying we should have government run healthcare (like Cuba). I am saying it is more complex than it looks, however. For example, just as someone else's house, if it burns, may impact you. If it is next door to you your property may catch fire. If it is done the block, the burned out wreckage will lower your property value. So with health care -- someone else sick with a communicable disease may transmit that to you or your children. If they don't vaccinate their kids -- they might get sick -- and pass it on to YOU (since your vaccinations for childhood illnesses may not cover you any longer e.g. chickenpox.)

So -- healthcare may be an area that is not either/or. It may be an area where we want some government coverage for everyone -- such as childhood vaccinations, and childhood health visits.

"Non-profit Hospitals" is...
...an oxymoron in Illinois. Over a few years, they turn billions in profits. Michelle Obama is well-paid to sit on the Boards of some of these hospitals.

I suspect that Michelle will turn out to be Obama's Hillary...if anyone ever looks into her business dealings, eg, TreeHouse Foods, a supplier to Wal-Mart...and whose CEO made MUCH more money than the CEO of Wal-Mart! This got out...and guess who snuck her way out of her association with Tree House? (You get one guess.)

This is a great column. I wish every TH column was as good as this one. Maybe Maggie will do a column exposing the FDA, which is in the back pocket of Big Pharma and utterly corrupt.

Do the Math
Medicare is going bankrupt. If we cannot afford health care from that segment of the population, just how in the hell are we going to afford expanding it for everyone?

To Turn2Him: I work for a research center that performs those clinical trials for pharma. The huge expenses demanded by the FDA to insure the drug is as safe as possible and the reams of paperwork we have to maintain for 15 years AFTER the close of the study, is a huge cost. But to have a company like Merck sued for Vioxx, and having people come to our arthritis center crying because they are in pain, and Vioxx was the only drug that worked, is criminal. Any drug that would be completely safe, and have absolutely no side effects, would also be 100% ineffective.

Americans are risk averse pansies, and are so spoiled that we have forgotted what made America great. Individual responsiblity and entrepeneurship, limited government, and swift justice. There were far less horse theives when they got hung before exhausting 15 years of appeals.

forder
The "uneducated left" isn't an oxymoron. It's redundant. An oxymoron would be the "educated left". Unless of course you meant to compliment them. Then you'd be right.

JPK
You'd have to tell me which liberal said that universal health care will be free. What many say is that per capita health care spending in the US is higher than countries with universal health care. So universal health care should cost us less than we pay now.

"Just think what will happen when the goverment becomes the sole arbiter of health care and dictates to hospitals, doctors, and pharmeticueticals."

Statistics show that people who live in such countries are healthier. But health seems to be very much beside the point. All that is important is keeping taxes as low as possible.

Again, name a country where your free market ideas on universal health coverage are in place and working.

Can you say "fool's paradise"?
People say that health care is too expensive for the average American to afford. Thus, they say, the solution is to put our entire health care system into the nice, safe, efficient hands of --- THE GOVERNMENT????

Anyone who favors government health care is in bad need of mental health care.

re: SteveL
SteveL wrote:

"... FYI, some 47 state governments MANDATE compliance with auto insurance. You must have auto insurance to drive on an Interstate highway. Didn't you know that? ..."

>>

There's a *big* difference between auto insurance and health insurance, though.

Auto insurance *is* insurance. It is used to cover unexpected, unanticipated expenses and are generally limited to "no fault" expenses, meaning that they're not caused by the operator's negligence (accident coverage notwithstanding).

Health insurance is *not*. The vast majority of health/medical insurance policies are really payment plans to shift the burden of the costs from the consumer to the insurer.


Health insurance covering lung cancer treatment of a smoker is like automobile insurance replacing a seized engine that the owner *never* maintained. Health insurance paying for doctor's visits for the sniffles is like automobile insurance paying for a loose radiator hose.


Imagine how out of control automotive maintenance *and* insurance costs would be if auto insurance was treated the same way -- used to pay for your annual inspection(s), oil changes, tire rotations and changes, repairing the timing belt or chain, replacing the sparkplugs, and etcetera.


Oh! And mandates that maternity care be covered and cannot be opted out of to save money on the policy -- even though I've had a vasectomy and my wife has had a hysterectomy -- is like mandating that *all* automobile insurance policies cover underage drivers EVEN IF YOU DON'T HAVE KIDS.

Unconstitutional
There is no provision in the U.S. Constitution to permit our government to run or subsidize health care.

BTW: As if it's really relevant, the Constitution does provide for a national defense, permit Congress to declare war and makes the President the Command-in-Chief.

No-Fault Pregnancy Coverage
When I started working in the 1970s, pregnancy coverage was optional and even if available it covered ONLY the employee herself (rarely happened) and the wives of employees. When New York State mandated that ALL plans cover the pregnancies of ALL females -- employees, underage daughters, wives, etc. -- my insurance premium QUINTUPLED. The other thing that happened was in our firm which had 10 women employees, within 6 months, 3 of them were pregnant.

THAT is what drives up the costs.

Oh, and in Quebec it is mandated that "free" health insurance cover sex-change operations, hair transplants and boob jobs. Including those for prisoners. However, it does NOT cover eyeglasses, dental care or prescriptions.

Response to SunSword
If my neighbors house burns I don't have to pay to rebuild it. I also don't have to help him buy the insurance that will be used to rebuild it.

We all pay taxes for the military to defend us. Paying for police and a fire department is much more along these lines than imposing mandatory participation in national health insurance.

Consider. If I get mugged and there is no police to track down the mugger and arrest him he will continue unabated. The result is de facto anarchy. If my house burns down and there is no fire department to control the fire there is great risk that my neighbors' homes will be damaged or destroyed. But if I have a heart attack and no insurance to cover it my neighbors and other fellow citizens are not affected.

Your argument that because we pay taxes for police and fire it is OK to force people to pay for other peoples' health care doesn't wash. It's a lame analogy and doesn't change by one iota the fact that this concept is already breaking down the health care industry by taking the cost decisions out of the hands of the people who are paying the bills.

rationing
"With his Project on Death in America, Soros sought to promote "palliative care," which means keeping patients comfortable while they are dying, but making no effort to save or extend their lives.

In their book, Horowitz and Poe argued that Soros had a "covert purpose," both in supporting Hillarycare and in funding the Project on Death in America, namely, "to save money by rationing healthcare."

Healthcare rationing was the essence of Hillary’s health plan in 1994, just as it is today, Poe said, when Hillary now promises to slash medical spending in America by $120 billion per year."


Not that I am suggesting this but ...
Here in the great land downunder, we have a universal helathcare system system funded by a levy of 2% on income. Singles earning over 50k and couples earning 100k are slugged an xtra 1% if they don't have private insurance.

The govt subsidises this private insurance by allowing a 30% rebate.

To stop the 'freeloaders' problem the govt decided to introduce age related payments. ie if you take out insurance before the age of 30 and retain it you will always pay the "base rate", for every year over 30 that you join you pay a 2% penalty (ie if you join at 31 you pay 102% of the base premium, at 40 120% etc.

Our healthcare is collapsing on all fronts due to a variety of reasons including, but not limited to, the elderly taking up hospital beds as there not enough assisted age care, can't get in to see GP (ie patient lists closed),a shortage of GPs, increase in emergency room vists by people who should be seen by GPs(but can't as lists are closed), poor planning(closing beds as population increases), lack of specialists (due to stranglehold by specialists associations), lack of nurses etc etc

In Queensland the state govt even introduced a levy on electricity bills to pay for a 'free' ambulance service. Now people are calling for an ambulance for a cut finger(or worse getting a trip to the hospital & instead of going to the ER popping across the road to the local shopping centre), and whilst the ambos are responding to these calls they can't respond to genuine emergencies(ie heartattacks, road accidents etc)


Romney's healthcare
What a disaster that would be on a national level. I looked into it. YOu are forced to by a plan. What a boondoggle for the ins co. Wonder if they thought it up.

So if you are working poor or even lower middle class, you are forced to buy a cr*p plan with a high deductable and basically just major medical. That is pretty much all hospital corps care about. So the consumer is left with even less dollars to go to the dr for routine things like dental care, paps, etc.

How much incentive is there for ins co to be competitive when the gov FORCES you to buy whatever cr*p plans they offer?

Sorrry but ole Mitt is a corporate hack and this is nothing more than a payout to ins co and corporate hospitals. Neither give a rats rear end about people getting decent health care. They just care about getting paid when people end up in the hospital.

Romney's CommonwealthCare 4 California?
The following is taken from California State Senate Republican Caucus:

"Once government takes a strong role in providing citizens health care, health care and its financing are politicized. The Massachusetts experience shows the impetus is to expand benefits and expand eligibility for taxpayer-subsidized programs while reducing cost sharing for individuals and reducing market-based efforts to contain costs. Third, Massachusetts so far shows that increasing the government’s role in health care distorts the health care market, triggering adverse selection, whereby the unhealthiest people enroll in health care and the healthiest remain outside of the risk pool. Fourth, rapidly increasing the numbers of those with coverage exacerbates provider shortages, which reduces access to medical care.

Finally, although it is too early to tell from Massachusetts experience, California should be very cautious about imposing taxes upon providers and employers to finance health care coverage for the uninsured. Basic economics indicates policy makers tax that which they want less of – and the Governor’s and legislative taxing proposals suggest they want fewer doctors, fewer hospitals, and fewer employers."

http://republican.sen.ca.gov/opeds/99/oped3940.asp



Military Already Gets Social Healthcare
If you want to know what socialized healthcare looks like, go to Walter Reed. Actually, that would be the top tier.

The Democrats complain about military care, but, in the same breath, wants all of us to enjoy the same. Bizarre!

We do not need socialized healthcare, we just need cheaper healthcare. What are these dummies doing about that?

health care?
Going to the Dr. will be like going to DMV and the post office.


The two reasons that
health insurance costs so much:

1. Government has been involved in the financing of it since the advent of Medicare many years ago.

2. Sleazy lawyers (like John Edwards) suing doctors for every less-than-perfect outcome. This leads to very high malpractice premiums which get passed on to patients' health insurance companies.

If HillaryCare is
ever implimented, do you suppose that Hillary will wait in line like us peons or will she be exempted from the inconvenience? Do you suppose she get generics or placebos? Will she be told to come back in a week?

How Obama and ObamaCare? Same questions.

Somehow, I don't believe what applies to us will aplly to them.

Hey, I got an idea, why not keep the government out of the health care business and let us individual citizens take responsibility for our own health care? That way those who do not want it don't need to buy it. And those of us that can't afford it will do what we have always done... abide. And Hillary and Obama can pay for their own share out of their own pockets.

Cornpone Harry -- $ Where Your Mouth Is?
Those like Cornpone always claim it's because somebody else is making too much money.

But Cornpone probably doesn't believe the very things he is saying to the rest of us. (He may not be a liar, but boy is he compartmentalized!!)

Those pharma co.s and hospitals he says are overcharging are, in many cases, private corporations. That is, they are owned by their stockholders, and their profits -- high, medium, or low -- belong to those stockholders.

If what Cornpone says is true, then those stockholders are getting rich. Cornpone could join the ranks of those who are getting rich simply by buying the stock -- which can almost certainly be done for a price he can easily afford -- say, $35 per share?

But I'll wager he hasn't done so. One reason might be that Cornpone enjoys poverty and wouldn't want the money that might alleviate that. But a more likely reason is that -- inspite of encouraging the rest of us to believe it -- Cornpone himself doesn't believe that investing in healthcare is a paying proposition.

Although Cornpone is unwilling to invest in the provision of hospital services or pharmaceuticals for his community, he fully expects someone else to do so (so that Cornpone can enjoy those benefits). Cornpone then expects those investors to suffer the calumnies of ungrateful hypocrits like himself.

Nice fellow!

Come to your senses
You're right Maggie, 400 Million over budget is atrocious. Going over budget on healthcare, tsk tsk, inacceptable.

Then again:
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

Brandy Coons huh? A waitress you say? Yes, they always make great money and have such stable employment. What does a gym membership cost these days, $20 or $30 a month? A photography hobby, probably digital? What is that these days... free? No you're right, she should scrounge and scurry to get her over-priced policy, so she can stay at home to save the few pennies left her just waiting for the coronary to kick in. Good plan.
Or maybe, we should stop letting these massive companies extort us?
Your style of journalism continues to perpetuate the myth that universal healthcare can't exist. It does and it's wonderful. I'm an American living abroad, I have the most amazing healthcare. Stop listening to the lies, the rhetoric, thay don't want you to have it. Yes, those amazing companies who spend millions of their own hard earned dollars developing new drugs, then rake it in and award their CEO's Billions upon billions. They want your money.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.