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Thursday, September 13, 2007
Maggie Gallagher :: Townhall.com Columnist
After Petraeus: Where Have the Grown-Ups Gone?
by Maggie Gallagher
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There was something so PG-13 about MoveOn.org's pre-emptive strike against Gen. David Petraeus on the eve of his Senate testimony. "General Petraeus or General Betray Us? " screamed the full-page New York Times ad. "Cooking the Books for the White House."

Somewhere, some frat boy is howling with glee. Petraeus, Betray Us, get it?

Yeah, we get it. Superbad, guys.

Senate Republicans have responded by demanding the Democratic leaders repudiate their party's baser instincts.

Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, introduced a "sense of the Senate" resolution acknowledging Gen. Petraeus' distinguished record (including two Distinguished Service Medals and a Bronze Star). Gen. Petraeus is not only a combat veteran but a Princeton Ph.D. (one of the few I know of who puts his life on the line for his country) and the author of the U.S. Army and Marine Corps' counterinsurgency manual.

Sen. Cornyn's resolution asks the Senate to "strongly condemn" all efforts to attack the honor and integrity of Gen. Petraeus and to "specifically repudiate the unwarranted personal attack on Gen. Petraeus by the liberal activist group MoveOn.org."

And if there is anything left of the once powerful American tradition that partisan politics stops at our shoreline, Harry Reid and his fellow Senate Democrats would rush to do so.

I'm not holding my breath.

It's too early yet to say exactly how much of an impact Gen. Petraeus' impressive testimony will have on U.S. public opinion. What is disturbing is how much depends on his capacity to persuade Americans that all is not yet lost in Iraq.

A Sept. 6-9 Associated Press poll underscored how pessimistic Americans remain that anything good can come out of Iraq. By 59 percent to 34 percent, Americans said they believe that history will judge the Iraq war a complete or partial failure rather than a success. A New York Times poll this week showed almost two-thirds of Americans favor either an immediate reduction in troops or a complete withdrawal.

The good news for President Bush on Iraq is that Americans trust military commanders far more than Congress to handle the war. This is also the bad news for Bush: When asked who they trusted to resolve the war, 5 percent chose the president, 21 percent favored Congress and 68 percent expressed the most trust in the military. Six in 10 say they believe the Bush administration deliberately misled them about the reasons for going to war.

Gen. Petraeus is assuming unusual political importance because the elected commander in chief is no longer trusted by our people to tell us the truth. This cannot be good for democracy in America, much less in Iraq.

But in spite of their jaundiced view of this administration, and their pessimism about Iraq, Americans are (unlike our political leaders) displaying remarkably grown-up, measured and responsible attitudes about what should happen next.

The majority of Americans (56 percent) in the New York Times poll favor staying in Iraq with reduced troop numbers "to train Iraqi forces, fight terrorists and protect American diplomats." Just 22 percent favor a complete withdrawal from Iraq over the next year, about the same number (20 percent) who say we should stay the course until stable democracy comes to Iraq. And 71 percent of Americans said flexibility in staging a withdrawal was more important than either unqualified victory or an immediate withdrawal demanded by MoveOn.org and its ilk.

Americans also retain their powerful bias that our military should be used primarily to protect Americans, not to prevent humanitarian disasters on far-flung shores. Almost half of Americans favor reducing troops even if the result is "more mass killings" in ethnic strife in Iraq. Just 30 percent favor reducing troops or withdrawal if it means Iraq would become a base of terrorist operations as a result.

I hope President Bush is taking notes.

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About The Author

Maggie Gallagher is a nationally syndicated columnist, a leading voice in the new marriage movement and co-author of The Case for Marriage: Why Married People Are Happier, Healthier, and Better Off Financially.

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Give General Patraeus a Chance
..The troops will come home, but instead of coming home with their tails between their legs unable to look at people in their eyes, like those of us of the Viet Nam generation, I hope they will be met by a grateful and respectful nation and not be ashamed of their service but be proud of it.
..The troops believe in what they are doing. General Patraeus and his staff believe in what they are doing. The President believes that what he is doing is the right thing to do.
..This is not a conventional war. General Patraeus has developed a plan of action which by most accounts is succeeding. Give the General a
chance to futher refine and perfect his operations. We can all be proud of our nation and those who serve it.

The left needs to shut up
It didn't win any war the US was ever involved in.

The left brought some of the worst horror of the 20th C. To claim to pacifism is a joke.

Lenin brought the Russian Rev., the death of the Russian Romanovs, its ruling family; humiliating withdrawal from WW I, institution of mod. state terror, and 10 years of civil war that depleted Russia by 10s of millions.

Then Lenin's successor Stalin starved the Ukraine in the 30s to force farm collectivization. Maybe 10-30-40 million died. No one knows. The NYTimes covered this miracle and called communist USSR the utopia of the future. It won a Pulitzer Prize for that lie and has never had the decency to return the award.

The left in N. Korea is starving its populace while terrorizing the world with a nuclear program.

China under commnist Mao killed so many millions they've never been counted or estimated. In the mid-60s, Mao unleashed a "culural revolution" to eliminate what was left of the middle class. His idiot farm plans also produced mass famine and starvation.

We know after S. Vietnam fell 2 1/2 million went to re-education camps. Pot Pol killed 2 million in Cambodia. They were the killing fields.

The left in Cuba under Castro has jailed 10's of thousands for wanting freedom of the press and free of speech. Cuba is also starving its population. The weak and starving are less likely to have any fight in them.

Don't tell me how peace-loving the left is. It is merely a life-sucking vampire on the body politic.

SteveL
"How can you blame "the Left" for the mess the Iraq War became, when "the Left" had absolutely NOTHING to do with the planning and execution of the war?"

Excuse me, but I believe a number of Democrats voted FOR this war. They stood by their vote as long as the war had public support. When public support began to wane, the Democrats began to deny that they ever supported the war in the first place.

It's a good thing these people weren't around during the Civil War, or we'd still have slavery in this country.


"Do ANY conservatives ever demand that Bush take responsibility for his mistakes?"

That's an interesting question. Coming from a liberal, it's actually quite ironic. When is the left going to call Bill Clinton to account - not for his "mistakes" - but for his CRIMES?

Jimmy D
Frothing at the mouth will not make your lies into truth. The Swifties were a political operation created and funded in order to sabotage Kerry. They have little or no connection to the truth.




Something needed to be said
Warren Small:
"both "sides" of the single War Party in Congress are still signing blank checks for the endless, futile fight." - If you really think this is a Futile fight with all the information that is know about our fight against Terror, then you are either brain dead or Liberal or both.
SteveL:
Only 1/3 of Populace don't believe MSM? What?
& True Conservatives can't wait for Bush to step down, but not because of his positions on Iraq. In Wars, mistakes happen, learn from them adjust and go on. You don't run and hide, and the Liberals voted for this War in Congress too. This is America's War, not Bush's War!
Touj:
You are outright a LIAR. The Swiftboat Veterans all of them are honorable and truthful and I would very much like you to show up at the next Veterans Assembly and see you spit your lies and venom outloud. You will receive your reward and it will be deserved. KERRY IS & WAS A JOKE. ALL VET's know it to be true. I am a Vietnam Vet and proud of being a VET. I am not proud of what the Democrats did in Vietnam.

How quickly the left runs
How quickly the left runs for cover when one of theirs does what they all would love to do but gets in trouble. The left loves the attack on General Petraeus. Few if any like the military or anything about the military. Most see no reason for the USA to have a military. They think anyone going into the military, especially voluntarily, are insane. They believe we should have all grown up and gone beyond war. Of course those that preach our deaths if we don't convert or at least submitt are obviously just very misunderstood individuals. Nothing a little sit down and hugging wouldn't cure.

General Petraeus isn't a Politician. Yet just like the General if you don't agree with the Left then anything is fair attacking you, your family or friends. Remember if you don't agree with them on Global Warming you should be tried for war crimes.

What I often actually laugh about of late is that if American do not have the patience to fight an insurgent war trying to establish a democracy in a country that has never had anything but ruthless dictators, then imagine their lack of patience solving global warming. Remember we will not know, even if we implemented the most draconian measure today, whether green house gases were the cause of this supposed global warming for another fifty or hundred years. Yet the economic and social impact we are going to face to solve the "global warming crisis" will exceed that of the Industrial Revolution.

Counter Ad
Should read General Pray for us. Since America has managed to reach a new low.

Sunny
What color is the sun on your planet? MoveOn.org is buying the Democrat party lock, stock, and barrel. Denile is not a river in Egypt.

for Un Momento
Un Momento writes: "You should take heart that approximately one third of the people polled don't agree with main stream media. Can you imagine what the polls would show if the media was on our side?"

Don't blame the media for the fact that the public (correctly) perceives that Bush screwed up the Iraq War.

It's now obvious to even the most die-hard Bush supporter that America just didn't send enough troops to Iraq to prevent the insurgency from gaining momentum. And who was responsible for that decision?

It wasn't Pelosi or the New York Times or Moveon.org or Hillary who signed off on the invasion plan. It was General Tommy Franks and SecDef Rumsfeld who signed off on an invasion plan that involved only 130,000 troops.

How can you blame "the Left" for the mess the Iraq War became, when "the Left" had absolutely NOTHING to do with the planning and execution of the war? From Day One, the Republicans insisted that THEY and THEY ALONE were the ones to conduct the war on terror. Hence anything that went wrong in the Iraq war is theirs and theirs alone. The decisions to send insufficient troops, to choose restrictive Rules of Engagement, to give Fallujah back to the enemy after our troops died to take it, were made by the BUSH administration and no one else.

You insist on taking the credit, you must also be prepared to take the blame.

Do ANY conservatives ever demand that Bush take responsibility for his mistakes?

bad mouthing the general
i am not surprised by anything the democrats do or say as they are the party of alger hiss.democrats do not have the best intrest of of our republic in mind they only care about power and turning us into a socialist country.

No Comparison
As well stated by many others, there is no "moral equivalency" between the majority of war veterans who actually served with Mr. Kerry publishing a well documented book (that they all signed) which refuted his version of the facts of his service; and the scurrilous tactics of move-on.org.

Don't even try that comparison out on this site. It probably sells well on dailykos or huffpo where you can preach to the choir, but not here.

Commander and Chief
Why should anyonbe be surprised by Hillary's attitude about Commanding generals. We all saw the total disrespect for the military under the Clinton co-presidency. Remember Bill; said we would get two if he was elected.
Dems are desperate to get war over but not for a noble reason. Simply because they know if they get elected, they will be known as the party of surrender and dishonor

NOT Commander in Chief Material

SHE wants to be COMMANDER IN CHIEF

she who assaults, insults, bashes, trashes,
slanders our military through her handlers
her spokespeople like MOVE ON who claim to
OWN HER: her liberal media:

Hillary should run for President of a Terrorist nation

Sunny
Moveon seems to own the horn section in the band playing the tune the Democrats need to dance to. Trying to distance the Democratic party from Moveon by comparing it to a Swift Boat/GOP alliance during the 2004 presidential election is sheer folly because John Kerry shat on all of these people with a broad wipe in front of congress in 1971 and probably should have been tried for treason by communicating with the North Vietnamese in Paris during the peace talks in '74. Kerry as commander-in-chief was, is, and always will be unacceptable. Hear hear and to hell with the dishonorable morons at Moveon and the dishonorable Dems who think that disassociating themselves from these clowns absolves them.

Nope, it doesn't
Thursday, September, 13, 2007 12:45 PM
Kahryl writes:
Yeah,
"When I saw the "Betray Us" ad, the first thing it reminded me of was a typical Townhall thread. Demoncraps? Globull warming? Hitlery? Some threads have a MAJORITY of posts with these terms practically strung together.

This does not reflect well on MoveOn.org."


No matter how bad this place gets at times, it will NEVER be as bad as the Daily Kook, Huuf & Puff or Dimwits Underground.
At least here the opposition is allowe to post and their posts remain. At the leftwingnut whacko sites, ALL posts by Conservatives or anyone else not certifiably insane with BDS are deleted as soon as they're found.

Gallagher is right
The Congress should clearly be spending its time on resolutions condemning people who make jokes about people's names. After all why should they care about soldiers dying in Iraq when there are people at home trying to make a general cry. It certainly takes an adult to recognize the important issues.

Name calling here
Is nothing like I saw over on Democratic Underground or the Air America forums. Not even remotely close.

Still, we have Petraeus. Princeton Ph.D. Combat veteran. Decorated. 35 years of military service to this nation.

Hillary called him a liar to his face, for that is what you are telling someone when you have to "suspend disbelief" when listening to their sworn-in testimony.

Hillary's record is not much like that of Petraeus. Meretoriously defending Black Panthers in college accused and convicted of torturing a man to death. Commendably being unable to locate the Rose Law Firm billing records. Outstanding personal conduct througout "Travelgate".

I could go on, but you guys know the litany.

A Note on Polls
Maggie;
..One thing that polls show is people generally believe what they hear. You should take heart that approximately one third of the people polled don't agree with main stream media. Can you imagine what the polls would show if the media was on our side?

Where Do We Go From Here?
"Pull the troops out!" "Bring Home The Troops!" "We Support the Troops!"

Okay, great. Bring the lads home and then what? What favor are you doing the troops? Letting them get a little R&R until the whole region blows up, then we have to go back en masse with a draft to provide the numbers we'll need to permanently get the job done.

Oh, BTW, 3000 will be the number of casualties in the first weeks, not after 4 years.

Dems are Dumb and Libs a Looney. The "instant gratification generation."

Moveon.org not a branch of the Dems?
Sunny writes:

"For some reasons, the GOP believes that MoveOn.org is a branch of the Democratic Party. It isn't."

Here's a quote from Eli Pariser, Executive Director of Moveon.org re Democrats:

"Now it's our party. We bought it. We own it. And we're going to take it back."

Any doubts about moveon.org's power and influence within the party?




sorry
That's "entirely." I must be getting tired. I'm spelling like a liberal.

I THINK DUMB-DUMBS..

Everything "MoveOn" does helps Bush. The more they spend on Media, the higher Bush's ratings go.

I sure hope they have a lot of money :)

Sunny
I hate to break it to you, but the black helicopter nut cases @ MoveOn have become the democrat mainstream.

And as for the swifties, they were soldiers who served along side Kerry and recalled an entirely different version of the events that were supposedly "seared" into Kerry's memory. Fellow eye witnesses rebutting the fanciful testimony of an opportunistic politician-to-be is something intirely different than calling a 4-star general a liar before he has spoken a word.

I wish it were true
Sunny announced that Moveon.org did not speak for him (her?). That's great. But sunny also suggested that Moveon.org does not speak for the Democrat party.

Sunny wrote: "For some reasons, the GOP believes that MoveOn.org is a branch of the Democratic Party. It isn't. Are the Swift Boaters a part of the Republican Party? I doubt that everyone in the GOP want to claim them either. What MoveOn did is not acceptable to the majority of main stream, moderate Democrats, and hopefully the same can be said of what the Swift Boaters did in 2004."

The reasons we think Moveon.org is a branch of the Democrat party include:

1) Moveon.org is a certified 527 organization, receiving legal political contributions and using them to run ads for Democrat candidates;

2) All seven of the Democrat Presidential candidates were asked to denounce Moveon's ad in the New York Times, and none of them even tried to distance themselves from Moveon.org;

3) While the statements in the ad are more inflammatory than most Democrat statements, the general position they've taken is identical to the position of the Democrats in Congress.

So, sorry, sunny, but though we're happy Moveon does not speak for YOU, we're certain they speak for the Democrats generally.

As to your comparison to Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, are you aware that the Swifties' funding was 1/100 of Moveon.org's funding? (That's not an exaggeration.) That the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth advertised in only 3 states? That the Swifties had no connection with any campaign other than the one John Kerry was involved in?

It's not a good comparison; but beyond that, what the Swifties were campaigning for was recognition of John Kerry's role in denigrating American servicemen returning from Vietnam, and that was both relevant and factually correct. I'm not ashamed to have heard their message, and I'm not ashamed to have passed it on.

Sunny
Show me Moveon contributing to a Republican and I might agree with you. They are without doubt a proxy for the lunatic liberals in Washington. By the way, we Republicans gladly accept the Swift Boat Veterans amongst our ranks.

Sunny writes:
"For some reasons, the GOP believes that MoveOn.org is a branch of the Democratic Party. It isn't. Are the Swift Boaters a part of the Republican Party? I doubt that everyone in the GOP want to claim them either. What MoveOn did is not acceptable to the majority of main stream, moderate Democrats, and hopefully the same can be said of what the Swift Boaters did in 2004."

Gee, I wonder what could possibly cause someone to consider MoveOn to be "a branch of the Democratic Pary" or their comments "acceptable to the majority of the mainstream"?

Perhaps it's the fact that virtually every Democrat of note had condemned General Petraeus' comments BEFORE he had a chance to state them? Perhaps it's the fact that no Democrat is permitted to utter even a hint of support for our nation's war efforts and not be branded a traitor to the party (witness Joe Lieberman)? Perhaps it's the stunning revelation that the "mainstream" NYT offered a 60% discount off of list price for the disgusting advertisement submitted by MoveOn?

No, Sunny, I can't think of anything that would justify the GOP in associating MoveOn with the Democrats.

And btw, the only shame I feel with respect to the Swift Boaters is that I didn't personally open my wallet to support their cause. To the extent their efforts spared us from a President Kerry, we all owe them an enormous debt.

Dave
Sadly, I have to agree with you. We deserve our politicians.

Now try to imagine Hillary leading the greatest military on the planet. If that doesn't keep you up at night, I don't know what will.

Enough with polls already...
Yes, polling soccer moms is going to result in negative views of Iraq, but it's not up to soccer moms to keep this country safe and free. I've never been asked a poll question in my life and I don't of anyone who has. So who are these people that are getting polled anyway. And, you're referring to the AP and New York Times polls for Christ sakes.

When I kiss my children, safe in their beds at night, I'm not thanking the AP, soccer moms and the New York Slimes. I'm thanking the U.S. military. I'm sure that liberals are thanking the other three.

Talk about TRUST #4.
Supporting Unions, NEA & Labor, to increase their Power, secret ballot elections attempts were UNAMERICAN. Attempting to violate our Abilities to find and eliminate our Enemies with Patriot Act (this is absolutely ridiculous). Appointing Activist Judges and preventing Judges who disagree with their philosophy and liberal agenda. Attempting to Put the U.N. in charge of American Foreign Policy. Attempting to violate Federal Elections, preventing National ID's, Felons to vote, the dead to vote, illegal immigrants to vote, and to their "INSURE OUR MILITARY VOTE DOES NOT COUNT. "Every vote to count, except for those who vote REPUBLICAN".
Violating our Troops with Funding Issues while at War in the field. Declaring defeat and abetting our Enemies worldwide. Attempting to violate Presidential Powers as CIC by attempting to control Military. Violating the Logan Act dealing with Foreign Countries. Violating the Concept of a Strong Military weakening America and emboldening our Enemies. Violating Star Wars and Missile Defense which could be the deciding factors in future hostilities. I could keep going on and on and on. Yes, based upon ACTIONS, DEMONRATS ARE AMERICA'S GREATEST ENEMY OF TODAY.

Talk about TRUST #3.
What have the Demonrats been doing:
Violating the First & Second Admendment Rights of the Bill of Rights (Hate Speech & Fairness Doctrine).
Lack of Energy Bill that will make America Oil Independent from Foreign Oil & Blackmail (Drill in Alaska & Off shore). Lack of School Vouchers, forcing our Children into a well indoctrinated system preaching the Liberal agenda and Socialism. Lack of Honesty in Earmark Transparency, and no line item veto.
Lack of Securing our Borders, not allowing Border Fence to be built and in attempting Amnesty for Millions illegally in our Country.
Lack of Addressing Social Security Issues that will bankrupt Social Security in future and make millions dependent on Government, which is what the Commies want. Lack of Addressing Medicare, same as SS. Lack of Tort Reform measures to continue to allow Liberal Judges and dishonest & Greedy Lawyers to legally steal from the Taxpayers.

Talk about TRUST #2.
Based Upon Today's Actions by Congress in the House & Senate, they, the Demonrats, have proven themselves as America's True Enemy and our Greatest Enemy of Today. Our Forefathers fought, bled, and died fighting against those who have threaten our Freedoms & Liberties masquerading as Communists, Socialists, Progressives, Fascists, and Liberals. The Demonrats Agenda mirror Karl Marx's Handbook, check their voting records and their actions, and you will see the truth. Don't expect the MSM to detail it for you.

Talk about TRUST #1.
There is only one issue for the 2008 Election: Do you desire or wish for Socialism & Oppression or Freedom & Liberty? Vote Democrat for Socialism & Oppression; Vote Republican for Freedom & Liberty. Libertarians would be aligned for Freedom & Liberty. This is the only real issue on the table for 2008. What a shame! Our Forefathers fought, bled, and died for our Liberties to be wasted by their own off-spring and the uneducated illiterates who have the ability to vote and who vote Democrat.

Maggie, MoveOn is fringe group
For some reasons, the GOP believes that MoveOn.org is a branch of the Democratic Party. It isn't. Are the Swift Boaters a part of the Republican Party? I doubt that everyone in the GOP want to claim them either. What MoveOn did is not acceptable to the majority of main stream, moderate Democrats, and hopefully the same can be said of what the Swift Boaters did in 2004.
It is understandable that so many Americans distrust the president and his administration after everything that has happened for the past five years. They no longer deserve our trust, and I doubt that they will ever get it back. Based on past behavior, it is also understandable why some do not trust General Petraeus, when you remember what happened to the military advisers who disagreed with this administration. They are now retired generals. So, when George Bush says he will listen to his generals, it is not credible. And it is too bad that General Petraeus is guilty by association. I believe him to be an honorable man, who has served his country with distinction, and I thank him for his service. So, when he gave his much awaited report to the congress, many were skeptical, and rightfully so. We are often judged by the company we keep, fair or not. As the old saying goes "When you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas."

Stuck in the Sixties
MoveOn.org can't MoveOn from the Sixties when their puerile blabbering, riddled with blasphemy, obscenity and errors, all in rhyme, was greeted with the giggles and blushes and "Isn't he cute!" that greet a spoilt three year old who runs into a cocktail party stark nekkid.

If their Mamas had not giggled and blushed and called them cute, but had whipped their bare backsides with a wooden spoon and sent them to bed early, perhaps we would have been spared a half-century of the same.

News Flash, Sixties Brats: if it was funny when you were 3, it is no longer funny when you are 53. Time to get a new gig.

Cornyn and Mexico
Sen. John Cornyn was widely described in media reports as calling the halting of Mexican trucks in the U.S. discrimination against Mexico. Funny how someone so concerned about name-calling in the New York Times ad thinks nothing of considering Americans opposed to Mexican trucks freely driving U.S. highways with their cargo as racist.

Well now
you sorta can expect the name calling to occur here...but we don't go out and buy an ad and shout the same thing do we? There's a difference guys.


Yeah,
When I saw the "Betray Us" ad, the first thing it reminded me of was a typical Townhall thread. Demoncraps? Globull warming? Hitlery? Some threads have a MAJORITY of posts with these terms practically strung together.

This does not reflect well on MoveOn.org.

wow
It’s a good thing Gallagher doesn’t know about this place. Just imagine how she would feel about juvenile name-calling and schoolyard put-downs that fill so many of the threads.
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