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Friday, October 17, 2008
Lorie Byrd :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Obama Thugocracy Goes After Joe the Plumber
by Lorie Byrd
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The star of the final Presidential debate Wednesday night was not Barack Obama or John McCain. It was Joe “the Plumber” Wurzelbacher from Ohio. Joe the Plumber came to the attention of the candidates when a video of him questioning Obama about his tax policy made news. Video of Obama’s response that when you “spread the wealth around” it’s good for everybody, spread like wildfire across the internet, to some cable news shows, and to John McCain’s attention. Since Joe was a big focus of the debate, and a big hit with Republicans, the Obama thugocracy (as tagged by Michael Barone) wasted no time targeting him.

Some liberal bloggers went after Joe the Plumber saying he didn’t even make $250,000 and that he would receive a tax cut under Barack Obama’s plan, supposedly proving “Joe the Plumber” was a Republican lie. Here is what Joe said in the exchange with Obama: “I’m getting ready to buy a company that makes about 250, 270-80 thousand dollars a year. Your new tax plan is going to tax me more isn’t it?” So much for the Republican lie. Joe told Obama that he was planning on buying a company, which he hoped would put him in that $250,000 or more income range in the future, which prompted Obama’s response about spreading the wealth around. By choosing that line of attack, those on the left proved what many of us on the right already believed – that they don’t “get” the basic concept of the American dream.

The American “dream” is about aspiring to improve your lot – to take advantage of the freedoms this country affords those who are willing to work hard, invest time and energy and often to take risks, to achieve success. In the response of liberals trying to blunt the effect of Obama’s spread the wealth comment they revealed their inability to understand that basic concept. Obama did the same in the full response he gave to Joe’s question. Obama stressed over and over again not what his tax plan would do to those who have begun to experience the success of the American dream, but only what it would do for those behind them. The idea that increasing taxes on the rich could negatively impact the not yet rich is a completely foreign notion.

In addition to those who tried to make hay out of the fact that Joe doesn’t yet make $250,000 (which they would have known if they had actually listened to his question), the Obama thugocracy went after him any other way they could. First they questioned Joe’s political affiliation, some saying he had given to Republicans in the past and others saying he was not registered to vote at all. Then they moved to his personal financial and legal records – first digging up a tax lien against him, then pointing out that he didn’t have a specific license (something required for commercial work, not residential).

Joe “not the plumber” Biden, evidently listening to the talking points and not to Joe the Plumber’s question, thought that Joe the Plumber made $250,000 and therefore wasn’t really a “real” plumber at all. On NBC’s Today show Biden said, “John [McCain] wants to cling to the notion of this guy Joe the plumber. I don’t have any Joe the plumbers in my neighborhood that make $250,000 a year. The Joe the plumbers in my neighborhood, the Joe the cops in my neighborhood, the Joe the grocery store owners in my neighborhood, they make, like 98 percent of the small businesses, less than $250,000 a year.” God love’em.

On Good Morning America in an interview with Diane Sawyer, Joe the Plumber said Obama’s plan to take more money from those who are successful is “scary” and a “very socialist view” and a “slippery slope.” If he continues to talk like that, and if he continues to resonate with Americans, there is no telling what we will learn next about Joe Wurzelbacher. Is he Trig Palin’s baby daddy? Does he wear silk undergarments? Is he really bald? The point those on the left now trying to destroy Joe the Plumber don’t get is that it doesn’t matter. Not only do their nasty attacks on him discourage anyone else from becoming involved in public political debate, but nothing they could dig up on him would matter anyway.

Whether Joe the Plumber is a Republican or a Democrat, a decided or undecided registered or unregistered voter, gay or straight, a wearer of boxers or briefs, a huge GOP donor or even the secret love child of John McCain doesn’t matter, because it doesn’t change what Barack Obama said. Of his own free will, Obama admitted that he believes his tax plan is a good thing because when you “spread the wealth around” it’s good for everybody.

Those of us who have believed Obama’s policy proposals to be a socialist redistribution of wealth had everything we believed confirmed, straight from the horse’s mouth. That is what was so shocking about the video exchange between Obama and Wurzelbacher -- what Obama said.

Obama told Joe that it is okay to soak those making more than $250,000 because then you can “spread the wealth” around and everyone will benefit. That is redistribution of wealth – taking from the rich (and from the kinda rich) and giving to the not so rich and the poor. And Obama admitted it. Out loud. On video.

Joe the Plumber is not going to be making tax policy (unfortunately), so even if he was a plant or a liar or Trig Palin’s daddy or John McCain’s love child doesn’t matter because it would not change what Barack Obama said. If the scenario described by Joe was real or fabricated would not even change the fact that Obama, the man asking to be allowed to reshape America’s economic policies, said out loud what his philosophy on taxes is and it amounts to redistribution of wealth.

James Pethokoukis at U.S. News and World Report said that in Obama’s statement he was “playing into the most extreme stereotype” of the Democrat party “that is infested with socialists.” He pointed to what he called McCain’s best line in the debate, “Now, of all times in America, we need to cut people’s taxes. We need to encourage business, create jobs, not spread the wealth around.”

Pethokoukis then pointed to something from a Gallup poll from June: “When given a choice about how government should address the numerous economic difficulties facing today’s consumer, Americans overwhelmingly – by 84% to 13% -- prefer that the government focus on improving overall economic conditions and the jobs situation in the United States as opposed to taking steps to distribute wealth more evenly among Americans.”

That attitude may have changed a bit since June, considering the recent credit crisis and anger toward Wall Street fat cats. But even if it is not still an 84-13% split, it is almost certainly still a substantial majority. No wonder those on the Left have decided Joe the Plumber must be destroyed. What they don’t get is that he is not what will cost them votes – Obama’s own words are.

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About The Author

Lorie Byrd is a Townhall.com columnist and blogs at Wizbang and at LorieByrd.com.

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Yawn . . .
The talking points are simply old and stale: why not try something new!

Don't have any suggestions for you though anything short of civli war!

Bring it!

Shoot the messenger
The libs want to shoot Joe the Plumber but they can't because they don't believe in guns. So, they will do everything else they can to destroy him. BO's response is not the focus of their anger just the question. Isn't Joe's question fair?

Al,
nice, you're a classy guy. Apparently it's not a "non-issue" to Obama and his supporters.

Moshe,
"Yup, because all them dark people are, by definition, thugs, right?"

Why would you jump to the conclusion that all of these liberal bloggers are dark people and that this is what Ms. Byrd thinks of them? Sounds like that's what you really believe and are projecting onto Ms. Byrd.

Today, Joe Is The Target: Tomorrow You
One thing about these Obama strong-arms, they don't like ANY opposition whatsoever. No difference of opinion is allowed. Support Obama, or shut your mouth and sit down.

Today, Joe is their target, tommorow it may be you or me. I guess these people are the community military Obama is talking about empowering while gutting our military. These people are reminiscent of the KGB, but considering Obama's ideas, that's not surprising.

The Silent Majority needs to show up in November and put it's mighty boot down.

Moshe
No, people of any color who threaten, intimidate, and lie about people are thugs. And you are an idiot.

Even Fodorites Are Targeting Joe!
First it was Palin Derangement Syndrome, now it's Joe Derangement Syndrome. I visited the Fodors (travel related) website and came across an entire thread purporting to expose Joe the Plumber: He's not licensed! He's related to a guy who's related to Charles Keating!! He's got unpaid taxes!!! (That's so unpatriotic.) These left-wing loons just couldn't accept the fact that what made Joe the Plumber famous wasn't his question, whether planted or not, it was Obama's unscripted response. For a good laugh, visit that website for their discussion in response to a query about why Americans are so afraid of socialism.

How does this constitute a 'thugocracy?'
This is just people saying stuff. Just like they always do. You conservatives are starting to wear me out with your unrelenting victim complex. Even when Bush was on top, it was boo hoo, these liberal traitors are so bad, they should go to prison. Now this. Maybe you should learn a new tune.

Hey Doug!
Do you love the way the liberal morons call you a racist when you disagree with Obama's Marxism, oops, I mean, politics? Doesn't compute in their minibrains that maybe we aren't buying what he is selling. Personally, I love Michael Steele. Smart, articulate, with well-reasoned ideas. If he announced he was running for the president, I'd vote for him, heck, I'd vote for him twice, but I'm not a democrat. "Don't forget to wash your sheet" How pathetically juvenile.

To emperia$$ et al

You're too deluded to figure it out but this is what Obama is all about. Thuggery and intimidation. The NRA runs anti-Obama ads in Missouri and the Obama dobermans want to shut the ads down and make ARRESTS!

Plumber Joe asks a question that opens a can of worms for Obama and the attack dogs leap, teeth gnashing to destroy the questioner. Poor Joe is going to end up broke and unemployed because of these jackbooted Obamabots.

I could cite case after case where Obama and his minions have tried to hide, destroy or simply erase inconvenient facts in Obama's past. These include his employment with ACORN, his now verified membership in the socialist New Party, his college records and papers etc.

Joe Blow the Plumber
Plumber without a license and big dreams of earning 250K annually. I believe when it all comes out in the "wash" the truth is McCain, ceased the opportunity to stick another one to Obama. Joe, is just another innocent bystander or is he. If a plumber working only on residential plumbing could earn 250K, well JOE, move over you're going to have allot of competition in the plumbing field. No one without Insurance, bonding or a license is going to come into my home and work on my plumbing. What is missing from Joe the plumbers story is the details and reality of owning a business. Is Joe, working under the table? Oops, McCain has opened up a real can of worms and Ms. Byrd, you're obliviously a racist I noticed you are a North Carolinian and a Republican. You get your news from Fox. When you opine try to be fair and use truth and actual facts don't just regurgitate the poison from bloggers and the Rupert Murdoch, news publications such as Fox News. "To thy own self be true".

Obama the Dictator
We anointed His Lordship Barak Hugo Chavez Hussein Obama. You think it is bad now, if he is president, he will have the FBI so busy investigating anyone that says anything critical of him. This is the mark of a dictator. We will lose all our rights for sure. He is after Fox News now, saying they are the reason he is not 2-3 points more ahead. What a victim, he thinks he is. You know what you can call me a racist, I am tired of anything someone disagrees with him he is a racist. They only people that are voting for him is the blacks, and those that want hand-outs from the government, and there are a lot of those that want hand-outs, they don't want to work, they want the benefits from other's work.

There is nothing worse than ignorance
I'm a Republican/Independent/Democrat "RID" is what I'd like to do with all the Rupert Murdoch, media controls. You have access to the Internet use it. Read the story of Rupert Murdoch how he gained the media empire in the USA and his connections with China and other Asian countries. Murdoch, is too involved in our Countries Government as well as Asia's. The man is dangerous and he owns the "Dark Side" of the Republican party...wake up bloggers the truth is out there seek and you will find. Rupert, escorted Sarah Palin around New York there's a clue. I do not believe John McCain, picked Sarah Palin as his running mate...Palin, was picked for him. The John McCain, we see running for President is not the real John McCain, he's Rupert Murdoch, Karl Rove and Dick Cheney's puppet. His own brother has made a plea to allow John McCain to be John McCain in this campaign. McCain, has allowed himself to be controlled, managed and handled. In other words he's sold his soul to the "dark side" of the Republican Party. The GOP is not the same GOP of the past. Wake up and Wise up America. John McCain, has fallen for it. Is it possible that you have too.

obambi's response
you need to listen to the O's response about "Joe" the plumber. They laughed at him (Joe), as if he were below themselves. In one of O's rallies after the debate O and his followers LAUGHED at working Joe. I can't believe that any of the working class can even think that they have any place in this man's thoughts. How can anyone think that O or his followers think anything more of the American Working Class as any thing more that "working animals", a way to get a free ride... I am flabbergasted.

never
i will never abide a obama presidency.
he is farakan light.
a racist, marxist.
the election will be fraudulent.
you see farakan saying he was the messiah?
talking about 'change'?
you know what he was talking about?
wake up america.
our way of life is at stake.

Heaven help us!
It's not only the "spread the wealth," it's also that there are people who want to put someone in as POTUS who thinks that he will help small businesses by cutting the capital gains tax. Perhaps that makes sense to those who see a personal attack as an appropriate response to a difference of opinion, as do Al, Jani, Moshe, and Ajhil.

Moshe
So calling (black AND white) peope who threaten, intimidate, and lie to destroy people's reputations makes me a racist, does it? Can you even define the word racist? I doubt it.

I teach at a high school with about 40% of the students black. Since I have an advanced degree in mathematics, and am certified to teach both AP calculus and physics, there are plenty of lily-white private high schools that would hire me on the spot if I sent my resume. Many times I have stayed after school on my own time to sit down one-on-one with black students to help them get a highter SAT score. In some cases this has resulted in their earning scholarships. Makes me feel good when they do.

So what have you done to help young blacks succeed? Encouraging them to blame all their troubles on others doesn't count.

And since you brought up the Ku Klux Klan, I'm sure you're aware that the only member of the Senate who was also a member of that terrorist organization is a Democrat.

Respect for plumbers
Maybe plumbers can earn a bit of respect for the power they weild in present day society by prioritizing service calls for non-Obama type customers until after election day? Good plumbers are typically quite busy, so tweeking their appointment schedule ought not be too much of a hassle. (Maybe the union guys can cover this client base?)


Thank you Lorie Byrd
.
THIS was the “game changer.”

NOT the debate, NOT an Obama or McCain ad, just plain old American life as it happens in its wonderfully chaotic, unpredictable way.

To the moral relativists of the Left, SOCIALISM is "just another, equally valid system."

Yah. Uh huh.

You and the rest of the online media need to HANG THIS ON OBAMA’S THUGGERY. No, this specific act cannot be laid directly on Obama, but on the intolerance, arrogance, extremism, AND SO ON AND SO FORTH which he spreads.

Toledo’s thugs are just RIDING THE OBAMA BANDWAGON. THEY are the criminals here, not some fellow who doesn’t have a license or has minimal liens (as does Obama’s treasurer, not that anyone of import seems to care about that…ahem).

But it is THAT BANDWAGON riding into town that will soon be threatening each of us if we do not act now as each of us can.

PLEASE, Lorie and Company - hang this on Obama, from here to election day.

MAKE THIS THE HORSE HE RIDES OUT OF TOWN ON.

Obama is deranged
Soaking thousands of dollars out of people earning over $250,000 and then handing out $500 checks to every one else is not a tax cut -- it is redistribution of wealth.

$500 is no big deal anyway, let the people who earned their money spend it the way they want. Nobody should have their taxes raised, especially right now.

Obama, you are an utter farce. Quit misleading people by trying to claim you are cutting taxes when you are not.

The great thing about America...
...is you can do whatever you want to. Become a plumber, own a company, vote or not vote, support socialists for president, and on and on. The only thing you can't do ... is critisize the OBAMA. If you do .. whatcha gonna do when they come for you ... Obama .. Obama..

The NSA and Joe
The Democrats are the ardent protectors of privacy when it came to votes on NSA and its activates to discover terrorists.

Now that the issue is domestic intrusion into innocent lives (other than Obama's pals) they have switched.

Every last rotten lie about Sen. McCain, Gov. Palin and now totally innocent Joe is open for public inspection.

And still some voters want the the Democrats to control Congress and the Presidency. Absurd


Economic Illiterates
Barack's words perfectly reflect the opinion of his most solid bloc of votes--the African American constituency. They believe in the simplistic notion that just taking the money from the rich and giving it to the poor and deprived will solve all problems. Because of their, and Barack Obama's, economic illiteracy they don't realize such policies would send the American economy into a tailspin for years, if not decades. It's ironic but Joe the Plumber's version is how the economy really works and why we are today one of the richest countries in the world.

Harvard-educated Obama hasn't a clue about how to run a successful economy or how to transform the lives of his most ardent supporters, such as persuading them to stay in school, find good jobs, and diss the rap music street ethos that ends up sending many of them to prison and their families to welfare.

ajhil

OMG !!
Now I understand what's going on here, what the deal is with all you left wing socialists... the hostility, the bluster & boasting, the infantile name-calling, atrocious writing skills & abysmal ignorance, the code words neo cons, right wing nut cases that you misuse, the lack of empathy or charity, the greed & self absorption ...

You're even bigger losers than I thought. I can see you now, sitting there dressed in your underwear in your dirty little run-down room with the empty pizza boxes, jars of Cheez-Whiz and wrinkled copies of Playboy and Hustler, posting your ridiculous rants on-line about how much you hate Americans who work for a living and live normal lives.

It's repulsive and stupid, but it fits so well. Normal people with a modicum of ability and education don't need to write such hateful things about ordinary Americans earning a living.

My, how miserable you must be behind all of that!

The Notion
"the notion" ...ever notice how often BO uses the word,Notion. Now Biden is using the word notion...well, I have a notion that the American electorate will see that ALL the notions that BO has are planted with the seeds of Socialism. Big brother has a notion to distribute the wealth...this is not a new NOTION. The demos have been doing this for 40 yrs. Speak up, America before all your NOTIONS will be silenced

There is a myth that circulates
in the black community that there is a finite amount of money and those who got to it first, must be forced to give it back and therefore level the playing field.

I hear this from very intelligent people who ought to know better. By pushing this lie, people like je$$e jackson and wright etc make a very good living. Obviously bambi is using this class warfare to his advantage as well.

There should be NO capitol gains tax, that money was already earned and taxed, if you risk it by investing it, you help the economy, if you tax it, people stick it under the mattress so to speak and the economy suffers..dems never get this concept because they are not entrepreneurs or risk takers, just takers of other people's money to buy votes from an ever enlarging recipient class.

Vote all dems out in Nov.

Joe, the what?
Turns out Joe is not a plumber, is not licensed (though he should be), owes back taxes, is or was a member of the Natural Law party, and would in fact get a tax break under the Obama plan since he didn't subtract business expense deductions from gross income (although he'd lose health insurance deductions under the McCain plan).


Joe is genius...
Even if Joe was a GOP plant, it was a move of genius. For the first time in almost two years, Obama stuck his neck out and engaged people who weren't pre-screened liberals. Imagine what would have happened to him in a townhall setting. He can duck questions from moderators, but he can't with regular folks. Just one question from one guy has sent the libs scurrying like someone kicked over an ant hill.

"Obama’s response that when you “spread the wealth around” it’s good for everybody"

No, Obama...it's only good for the people who's on the receiving end of the money (at least temporarily). The people who you would steal the money from aren't feeling so good about it.

After the theft, and the subsequent redistribution of the money, the victim will layoff the guy you gave the money to in order to recover the funds that you stole from him in the first place. Then, you have someone on unemployment who used to have a job.

God help us.

Moshe
I know this is difficult for you to understand, being a slow thinking liberal. But Obama DOES have a thugocracy - people have been sent out to destroy anyone and everyone who criticizes Obama. Joe the plumber is only the most recent example. Tell us, please, Moshe, what right Obama's people have to dig up any American's tax records and personal info, just because that person asked a question at a meet and greet.

Cue the crickets.....

You can always tell when someone on the left can't muster up a genuine argument - the only thing they can think of to do is imply racism.

Moshe, you are someone who shouldn't vote at all, as dumb as you are.


ajhil
Go insult Joe to his face-huh!

You damn thugaiders live your lives as idiotic parasites & expect the "Joes" of this world to feed you and wipe your a**es from cradle to grave.

You people are the scurge & leeches of society.

Now---i wonder how many thugs the Obama networks have sent to tear down 'Joe-the plumber'? Or are they still scavenging in Alaska?

In a nutshell
The 2008 Presidential Election is a contest between “Senator Government” and a Senator representing “Joe the Plumber”.

Obama obfuscates Tax on Small Business

Barack Obama will only tax those small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year.

Barack Obama knows he is speaking to his followers who think with feelings and not facts, logic and reason.

Obama followers think small businesses are a 'Mom and a Pop' shop, when in fact many small businesses have hunderds of employees and millions in income..

What is a small business as defined by the 'Small Business Adminastration'?
----------------------------------------------------------

For SEC purposes, small businesses are defined as domestic companies with revenues of under $25 million, and not investment companies. Subsidiaries of larger companies do not qualify as small businesses.

A small business is an concern that is organized for profit, with a place of business in the United States, and which operates primarily within the United States or makes a significant contribution to the U.S. economy through payment of taxes or use of American products, materials or labor.

Further, the concern cannot be dominant in its field, on a national basis. Finally, the concern must meet the numerical small business size standard for its industry. SBA has established a size standard for most industries in the U.S. economy. The most common size standards are as follow:

500 employees for most manufacturing and mining industries

100 employees for all wholesale trade industries

$7.0 million for most retail and service industries

$33.5 million for most general & heavy construction industries

$14.0 million for all special trade contractors

$0.75 million for most agricultural industries

http://www.sba.gov/services/contractingopportunities/sizest andardstopics/index.html

http://www.sba.gov/services/contractingopportunities/sizest andardstopics/faqs/index.html



Red Herring
I read the AP article this AM. While Joe's bona fides are interesting they really don't change the message. After listening to the 'Joe the Plumber' story I asked a friend who owns a small business what he thougth. He already has a plan and so do some of his friends.

His plan is to split his company into components small enough to stay under the limit. His friend it thinking of a cash only business. Many of the more successful small, as opposed to home, businesses I know will either go underground or lay of folks.

Obama Sacrificing for the Common Good

The idea that 'Sacrifice For The Common Good' supersedes private interests and rights can have but one meaning: that the interests and rights of some 'Collectivist Group' take precedence over the interests and rights of others.

Anyone who has ever studied Game Theory in mathmatics has heard about 'Zero Sum Theory'.

One of the things I learned in Game Theory was that 'zero sum' is an interaction in which one participant's gains result only from another's equivalent losses.

When Liberals and Democrats (collectivists) institute their solutions like 'Affirmative Action', the rights they give to the 'collectivist group' in favor, results in taking rights from others who are in dis-favor or in other words "moral equivalence".

Every United States Citizen should have the same rights and protections under the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights - no more - no less.

Liberals and Democrats believe this "moral equivalence" promotes justice and the well being of the American Citizen and displays the Liberal "moral superiority" over Conservatives.

Barack Obama's clarion call to "Sacrifice for the Common Good" - to redistribute wealth, as Obama said to 'Joe the Plumber', "letting those behind catch up".

Karl Marx's slogan, 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs'.

Someone explain the difference?

Jani
Is it possible that someone could be as stupid as you apparently are?

The man wants to buy a plumbing business that employs several plumbers, you idiot. Small businesses easily make 1/4 million a year or more, but it's hardly all profit. Most of that will go to pay salaries of employees, benefits, etc....., to say nothing of all the government regulations that add expense to the cost of doing business. And, if Obama is elected, a large part of that will go to the federal government to fund Obama's redistribution of wealth nonsense. That's why Joe asked him the question.

But you are too focused on hating anyone who's remotely conservative, to stop, think, and reason. Sadly, that IS the American left. So full of hate and rage that their minds have ceased to function.

Instead of saying
that Obama wants to take from the rich (or marginally rich) and give to the poor, we should emphasize what he ACTUALLY wants to do.

What actually happens is that socialists take from those PRODUCING the wealth and give to those who DON'T produce much of anything.

I loved a line I read here yesterday, “Socialism will only work until the socialists run out of other people's money".

Other people's money runs out very fast when they realize that producing wealth is in vain because that wealth will be confiscated. Businesses and individuals either join the ranks of the non-producers, or they move to some other country where they can keep what they produce.

Unguarded moments
Yobamma reveals his inner philosophy in off-the-cuff remarks like the one to Joe, who is thinking of buying a plumbing supply business, if I heard right. Owning a plumbing supply business is not the same as being a plumber. The latter only requires one to know the following : Hot's on the left, cold on the right, sh*t flows downhill, payday's Friday, and the boss is a SOB. Just as a wildass guess, the business Joe wants to buy most likely grosses $260-280K, but the IRS considers this income. If such an enterprise is run compently, net may be $20K. I know, I've managed operations with comparable revenues, and when the bills are paid, there's not a lot left over. These are the operations that are the lifeblood of the economy, but Yobamma wants them to subsidize the indolent slackers among us.
On another occasion, in an interview on the floor of the NYSE, Yobamma was asked about raising the capital gains tax, even though history has shown that such a move would result in a loss of revenue and that lowering rates has increased revenues collected, his response was to the effect of "We'd do it not to increase revenue but in the interest of fairness." The correct response would have been "Fairness to whom?"

Lori's "Thugocracy" claims:
What you need, Lori, is a professional editor who demands that you support claims with facts. The fact is, you are not as good at reporting facts as you are at spouting flimsy opinions.

Democrats Hate Normal People
Democrats have a need to tear down normalcy and common sense because they lack normalcy and common sense. Common sense involves morals.

How dare an American speak out against the plans of their Messiah!


Racism?
People who carelessly apply the word "racist" need to read about the days of segregation, lynching and "separate but equal" to find out exactly what that has meant in our history. If you can't understand how overusing and leveling such charges against people who merely disagree with your point of view actually eviscerates the meaning of the word, then I suspect you've never read the fable, "The Boy Who Cried Wolf".

Annfan
Please stop being obnoxious. You do the impossible feat of making Obamaoids seem sympathetic.

The point needs to be made...
... again and again, that, within 24 hours of anyone getting in the way of, or questioning the wonderfulness of, Barack Hussein, he or she suffers a massive attack of negative background research (sometimes with nonpublic information), internet rumours, guilt by association, and mostly flat out lies.
Come on liberals, don't you feel even the least bit icky about taking part in an instant, destructive, political smashmouth machine? (BTW, anyone else think Joe the Plumber looks like Michael Chiklis from that ugly TV show The Shield?)

Won't get FOOLED again?
Bill Clinton use to do the same thing, he would send his minions out and destroy anyone he thought was a threat i.e. all the women who claimed he did this or that.

MSM=
Obama's thug machine!

WHY are they not aware of the everlasting damage they are doing to America?

OR---maybe they are!
It seems to me, it is time to check the backgrounds of the Gibsons & Courics.

They are committing a crime against this country.

Freedom of the press means to let the people know ALL the facts--not just those meeting thier agenda.
The Obama networks had better remember,--you are either with America or against America.

The Least of Us
I seem to remember that Obama like to quote a saying about how a society is judged by the way it treats the least of its members. What does that tell us about Obama if he deploys his minions to assassinate Joe's character simply because Joe embarrassed him?

What will Obama do to talk radio, bloggers and other non-liberal media when they disapprove of his socialist policies?

Better start thinking about what you are going to do to protect your right of free speech. Don't put your eggs in McCain's basket since his candidacy is doomed by his own Obama-lite campaign.

Obama isn't American, he's European by temperament. To Eurobama the purpose of the media is to unite the people behind the state.

He will not abide opposition and the Republicans will not protect you (unless there's pork involved in it for them) so it's time for you to take matters into your own hands. Figure out how you are going to oppose the Obamanating of America.

Strip Search
The fact that Joe has now suffered a media strip search (oh what a bad man he turns out to be...) proves yet again what is so obvious with the MSM.

Plumbers of the US, when you see Obama signs in the lawn, just continue on to your next appointment!

Profit
Most businesses are happy if they get to keep a penny out of each dollar that goes through the till.

"Joe's" gross is $250,000, and a penny out of each dollar is $2,500.

Obama's tax increase is supposed to come out at $3,000.

The only way "Joe" can come out ahead is to increase his prices.

Obama ridicules small business owners
Have you heard the recording of Obama at a rally follwoing the debate? His voice dripping with condescension, Obama asks the audience, "How many plumbers do YOU know that make $250,000 a year?" followed by laughter and jeers from the crowd...

Fat Cats
Wall Street does not have a monopoly in the Fat Cat business. Look at Obama's associations, and how he's benefitted. At least McCain came by his money honestly; he married it. Actually, her money was inheirited and is still HER money; Senator McClain has NO stake in her grubstake.

Sounds Like
"a massive attack of negative background research (sometimes with nonpublic information), internet rumours, guilt by association, and mostly flat out lies."

Sounds like the Conservative strategy for attacking Obama to me.

Worse Than You Realize
The Fascist Left is sending a clear message to all American citizens: If you criticize our worldview or our leaders, we will destroy you, by reputation, financially, professionally, or all three.

What I want to add is that these people on the Left want to be in charge of our Health Care. Not only do they want to be in charge of it, they want monopoly control over who gets medical care, who doesn't, when and for how long.

I cannot think of a more chilling threat to our right of free speech. It is always the Leftist apparatchik who worms their way into government bureacracies. And we know these types are ready, willing, and even eager to abuse their power. So imagine the Left Thugocracy that can not only rummage through your tax and divorce records, but your medical records as well. Imagine the myriad ways you will be punished for speaking out against the LEFT: Your hospital paperwork will be "lost", you will be put to the back of the line to wait for a procedure, your medicine will be unavailable, your treatment therapy denied. And good luck trying to prove that it was political retribution (while you may be literally dying).

Even the implied threat will shut many of us up. How many even now are too afraid of the politics of personal destruction to get involved in politics? How many of us are already too cowed by Left Thug Tactics to even dare to put a bumpersticker on our cars or a sign on our lawns? How much worse would it be if these same thugs controlled whether or not your children got an anti-biotic when they needed it?

TYPICAL LIBERAL LEMMING RESPONSES
Joe isn't a plumber with over 6 years experience???? Because he doesn't have a license??? Why hasn't he been arrested or fined for plumbing without a license????

In many states and in many counties for that matter, one master plumber license for the owner of the company is all that is required.

It would be nice if Dhimmicrats and the MSM would do a little research beyond the "Central Committee's" lockstep talking points.




Ron:
What you need, Ron, is a professional editor who demands that you support claims with facts. The fact is, you are not as good at reporting facts as you are at spouting flimsy opinions.

See, I can play that game too!

What do you want, footnotes and references?
Then you could demand that the refernces have references.
Do you demand the same rigor from your political candidates?

Attack the messenger
This is nothing new. Recall the woman in Ohio who was harassed by the IRS after she criticized then-President Bill Clinton. I thought Dems loved the common, hard-working Americans who "play by the rules?"

Slavery
Thomas Sowell said it best. After Peter creates some wealth, FORCING him to spread some of it to Paul amounts to permanent part-time slavery.

Btw, Peter is quite often willing to spread some of his wealth to support charitable operations VOLUNTARILY, but he sometimes wants to choose a more effective charity than those run by the U.S. Government.

How Obama will invest Joe's Money

Barack Obama's clarion call is to "Sacrifice for the Common Good" - to redistribute wealth, as Obama said to 'Joe the Plumber', "letting those behind catch up".

Who are these citizens that Obama will invest Joe's money in?

Hard working people that need 'Just a Helping Hand' to catch up?

Hard working students that need help to finish or continue their brilliant educations?

NO, Barack Obama wants to invest Joe's money in criminals, those chronically unemployed and those students that have low levels of student academic achievement.

That is like picking the poorest performing stocks one can find and placing their retirement and 401K money hoping to help those companies that are on a bankrupt course.

Joe gets to help criminals pursue their careers, those that won't work continue not working (with some walking around money) and enable drug users, alcoholics and other addicts to continue their lifestyles.

"Establish 20 Promise Neighborhoods: Obama will create 20 Promise Neighborhoods in cities across the nation that have high levels of poverty and crime and low levels of student academic achievement." Barack Obama, Blueprint for Change

Barack Obama's 'Hope' and 'Change' = 'Investing in Failur' = coming to America with Joe's help.

New Obama Rules

Before he answers any question from the crowd, no matter how relevant or insightful it may be, the questioner must be vetted for legitimacy. "I'll get back to you via the New York Times and CBS once we determine you are what you say you are."

Barack Hussein Obama, Barry Soetoro, Barry Dunham: WHO THE HELL ARE YOU?

Poor Joe the plumber
He asked a question Obama doesn't like and he is be torn apart by everyone tring to find out about him. Here we have Obama running for President and not 1 will search out his records which does not sound good, questionable friends, pasters, so on. Biden isn't going to be vice-president if Obama wins, he will be Obama puppet-on-a-string, yes man to Obama. The news media, no ONE, makes Obama accountable for anything he says or does. If he wins we will have a CHANGE alright and it maybe a lot worse than people think.

Moonbat X
"The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) and the Joint Committee on Taxation have estimated that extending the capital gains tax cut enacted in 2003 would cost $100 billion over the next decade. The Administration’s Office of Management and Budget included a similar estimate in the President’s budget."
http://www.cbpp.org/policy-points4-18-08.htm

You simpletons on the right have repeated the myth about taxation reducing federal income so many times that even people who should know better repeat it.
That doesn't make it correct.
Short term gains due to investors' profit taking immediately after a capital gains tax cut are just that: short term and relatively small; but the fat cats who want to lower their own tax rates (so you idiots can pay more!) push the meme and lemming-like, chattering and squeeking, you rush to follow. If you only had half the intelligence and objectivity you claim, you'd be so much better off, but then, if Sarah Palin had wings, she could fly, right?

Work
Wealth is redistributed by work: family work, school work, physical work, intellectual work. In a FREE SOCIETY, work distributes the wealth.

What makes me angry
is the stupidity of the American voters who think that this is about the actual Joe that the candidates were talking referencing during the debate. It does not matter if Joe the plumber is real or fake or if he really makes $250k or not. Remember high school algebra or even elementary math and the word problems that used fictional characters. The fact is, even though the characters weren't anyone you knew personally, you still had to get the right answer and the numbers had to add up. The fact is that Obama's tax plan does not add up regardless of how much money Joe the plumber really makes. There ARE REAL PEOPLE who do make $250k/yr that provide jobs and economic stability for this country that will be hurt. I should also mention that Obama's tax plan is socialism bordering on communism. And when the government can tell you that you make too much money and can take more of it, then it is communism. Joe had it right regardless of his actual income and his tax status.

High tax rates do decrease tax revenues
I am a commercial real estate broker and am well aware of numerous occasions when high capital gains rates eliminated sales and any IRS collections.

The IRS also did not collect any income tax on the commission income that I did not receive from the non-sale. It also did not receive any income tax on the non-income that could have been received by someone else as I did not spend that money I did not get.

Left has no Core Beliefs
Under bHo's presented tax plan I would recieve a tax cut. However, my core belief that under the treat of imprisonment the taking of something from someone to give to antoher is wrong, is not for sale. The main problem with the left they is that they are great practioners of situational ethics which is simply another way of justifying what they want to do at the moment.

orlandocajun & ulsterscott
Both of you repeat the conservative myth that increased taxes inevitably lead to layoffs. I know that you intellectual giants on the right are all expert in business economics, but this one's really over the top.
You think that most small businesses employ more workers than they need in order to function, maybe as a form of charity? You think they can just lay off people whenever they want in order to reduce overhead?
What happens to productivity, when they cut staff? And what does that do to profits?
In fact, a well run small business will employ exactly the number of people necessary to meet damand for goods or services. Changes in the tax rate don't change that equation. If businesses could still function as well after laying off employees then they could (or should) have done so regardless of the tax rate.
Actually I probably shouldn't waste my time trying to explain these things to people who think the "Laffer Curve" is sophisticated economic theory.

ajhil
I guess you are the "intellectual giant" that thinks that small businesses, when their taxes go up, will keep their prices the same and thus, keep the same loyal customers? In fact, those businesses will lose customers because of price increases which will lead to layoffs because demand is not as high as it was before the taxes went up. Then again, maybe you're such a smart businessman that you know how to solve that problem without cutting back on operational costs. Also, maybe you can explain how higher taxes will be better for the economy when small businesses stop making capital purchases because they are trying to keep their profits.

Please, forgive all of us who don't look through such a narrow peephole but instead at the larger picture.

The Average Joe like Us
Obambi showed his socialist/commnist side all by himself. His real side came out loud and clear right out of his big mouth. He wants to control the wealth by taking control of the economy and holding us hostage by taxing us. He'll ruin the already struggling economy. What a dope. He did it all by himself. Thanks Joe!

It Was Just a Simple Question
Nobody seems to recall that "Joe the plumber" wanted to know how Obama's tax plan would effect him IF he bought a business with the potential to make more than 250,000!!!!! The answer clearly was it would not be in HIS best interest to "go for it." Suddenly "Joe" is being mocked as a dummy, a tax dodging yahoo only seeking the spotlight and enemy of the Obama camp! Did he expose something? Can you actually be PENALIZED for success under the Obama plan? One day- ordinary citizen, the enemy of Obama,the next! If Obama is really "fighting for the little guy," maybe he should "fight for the little guy's right to ask a question without nationwide and party ridicule." OK, he didn't become an instant convert when our new Messiah laid hands on him, so what? Hasn't he had enough public crucifixtion himself?

McCain's Scandalous Friends

Do you know some of McCain’s scandalous friends include:

CHARLES KEATING: a convicted felon who was part of the Keating Five conspiracy, along with McCain. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

G. GORDON LIDDY: a convicted felon who served four years in prison for Watergate crimes. Liddy is a McCain campaign contributor and hosted a fundraiser for McCain. See: http://mediamatters.org/items/200810040004

THE INDIAN GAMBLING INDUSTRY: A recent New York Times story called McCain “the father of Indian gambling.”
See: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/us/politics/28gambling-w eb.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp

JOHN SINGLAUB: McCain served with Singlaub on the board of an organization that has ties to anti-semites and racists. Singlaub was part of the Iran Contra affair. See: http://dyn.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/index.cfm/category/ BarackObama

DUKE TULLY: Godfather to one of McCain’s children and concocted a military record. See: http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/mccain/articles/200 7/03/01/20070301mccainbio-chapter6.html

MANY MORE… People like indicted Rep. Rick Renzi who was a McCain Campaign chair, Sen. Phil Gramm, unrepentant lawbreaker Gov. Sarah Palin…

McCain pals around with a very rough crowd and cannot be trusted.

ajhil
See if you can wrap your tiny mind around this: Increased taxes lead to people having less money. With less money, they are less able to patronize businesses. With reduced demand for their products and/or services, the business will cut back production and lay off employees.

Only in America
Don't you love it? Only in America could something this wacky yet serious happen. This could change the dynamics of the presidential race yet again. And yes the libs and MSM have taken off after Joe like hounds after a hare. I have heard the phrase "Republican plant" more than once the last few days. And yet Obama has no one to blame but himself. All Joe did was ask an important(relative to him) question about taxes. It was Obama's Robin Hood type answer that got all the media attention. This has definitely been the craziest presidential election I have seen in my 54 years. 18 days to go folks. What next?

More of the "same ol'" liberal attacks.

Who or what "Joe the Plumber" is or isn't makes not a wit of difference.

Obama was in "Joe the Plumber's" neighborhood, and "Joe" simply asked Marxist Obama a VALID and LEGITIMATE question!!!

"Joe the Plumber" IS NOT THE ISSUE!!! Get it?

But, the "Marxist-Liberal Machine" has gone ALL OUT to find information about every aspect of "Joe's" life... NONE OF WHICH is either important or pertinent to anything.

Just typical of what the "Marxist-Liberal Machine" will do to each and every one of us should Marxist Obama get elected and we dare ask a question.

Please settle down, kids!
It is amazing to read the vitriolic histrionics on both sides of this debate. What I find most terrorizing is we are afraid of speaking our minds and views. Last night a neighbor came by our home to collect for a cause. As she and I discussed the election, we both remarked that we were cautious with whom we spoke with about our support for McCain/Palin. We can no longer voice our opinion on this election without being labeled a racist. Silly! Come on people, we should not have to whisper about our beliefs. And we should not be hateful because of disagreements.

annfan
" Tell us, please, Moshe, what right Obama's people have to dig up any American's tax records and personal info, just because that person asked a question at a meet and greet."

I'm curious as to what you think the alternative should have been. Let Joe the Fake Plumber continue to misrepresent himself no questions asked because he was criticizing the scary black man you don't like?

How clueless
What a clueless article. I was expecting just a tiresome attempt to paint the fact that Joe the Plumber becoming a media phenomenon lead to embarassing things coming out about him as some kind of democratic plot. Instead we get a sign that Byrd doesn't understand any of the issue involved.

The question of whether Joe would see his taxes go up under the Obama proposal (over where they would be with the same jump in earnings) depends on what his reporting income is, not his gross income. So given the way Joe describes the situation, his taxes probably would not go up under Obama's proposal. Not unless there was nothing his company could write off, which seems unlikely.

The fact that the salary Joe is likely to command according to his scenario is not similar to that of most plumbers is certainly relavent to most plumbers in evaluation the two tax proposals. So the fact that Byrd does not care about most plumbers is more revealing than that she does about Joe.

And the claim that Obama does not care about the effect of his policies on growing small businesses shows that she simply misunderstood Obama's comment in her farcical attempt to confuse progressive income tax rates with Socialism. Obama's point was that if there are more customers able to afford Joe the Plumbers services, he will do more business. That is a comment about the fortunes of small businesses like his. To take that as evidence that he is unconcerned about that (rather than say trying to show he is wrong) just shows that she doesn't have a clue as to what she is talking about.

Obama chose Mentor Jeremiah Wright
Jeremiah Wright was carefully chosen by Barack Obama to 'Mentor' him and be his spiritual guide. Mentor Wright baptized Barack Obama, baptized the Obama children and performed the marriage ceremony betwee Barack and Michelle. On December 4, 2007, Wright was named as a member of the Barack Obama campaign's newly created African American Religious Leadership Committee.

Who is Jeremiah Wright?
-----------------------
1) Considers the U.S. to be a nation rife with racism and disrimination.
"Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!... We [Americans] believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God."

2) Blames American racism for provoking the 9/11 attacks.
"In the 21st century, says Wright, "white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01. White America and the western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just 'disappeared' as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns."

3) Embraces black separatism theology and socialism.
Prior to the controversy sparked (in early 2008) by Wright's racially charged statements and by Wright's reference to Cone's influence on his thinking, the website of Wright's church identified Cone's writings as required reading for parishioners who wished to more thoroughly understand the church's theology and mission.

Mentor Wright became famous for 'God Damn America'.

get over it
You are all wasting your time on this discussion. Joe the plumber lives in a fantasy world and was just a set-up for the McCain campaign.
Obama is an American who cares about the working class and ways to make life in America better for all people.
Name calling is so juvenile. Get over it.

patriotic
Thanks for trying to explain how plumbers work/There are to many idiots out there that think if the plumber makes 25 bucks an hour that is all they should be charged.They are too stupid to understand overhead.

Obama chose Michael Klonsky

Michael Klonsky (born 1943) is an American educator and political activist, a leader of the New Communist Movement.

Michael Klonsky, whose disgust for mainstream politics led him to launch a new, Maoist Communist Party in the 1970s, today supports Barack Obama so enthusiastically that until recently he was blogging on the Illinois senator’s Official campaign website.

“My own support for Obama is not a reflection of a radically changed attitude toward the Democratic Party, rather, it’s a recognition that the Obama campaign has become a rallying point for young activists and offers hope for rebuilding the civil rights and antiwar coalitions that have potential to become a real critical force in society.” Michael Klonsky.

Michael Klonsky is the former leader of SDS - Students for a Democratic Society.

Can every 'Radical' and 'Communist' in America be wrong about Barack Obama.

Chris:You're absolutely right! However..

As I've posted before... in my VERY REPUBLICAN county, there are remarkably FEW "McCain-Palin" lawn signs, and throughout the area noticeably few, if any, "McCain-Palin" bumper stickers.

Why? Being labeled a racist, is only part of it!

Conservatives learned their lesson LAST ELECTION... Republican lawn signs are stolen (if your lucky!) and a Republican bumper sticker is an open invitation to get your car keyed (if your lucky!)


Obama chose Carl Davidson
Who is Carl Davidson - who helped organize the rally in 2002 where the featured speaker was Barack Obama?

Carl Davidson, who was one of SDS’s three elected national officers in 1968.

1) Marxist anti-war activist.

2) Former member of Students for a Democratic Society.

3) Political supporter of Barack Obama.


Carl Davidson joined Michael Klonsky (leader of the New Communist Movement) in rejecting traditional politics for fringe Marxist movements. More recently, he helped organize the 2002 rally in which Obama first spoke out against the Iraq War and now serves as the webmaster of Progressives for Obama.

In 1992 Davidson became a leader of the newly formed Committees of Correspondence, a Marxist coalition of former Maoists, Trotskyists, and Communist Party USA members.

The organization has since changed its name to the 'Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism', where Davidson remains a prominent figure.

Davidson was a major player in the Chicago branch of the 'New Party', a Marxist political coalition.

Most New Party members hailed from the 'Committees of Correspondence', 'the Democratic Socialists of America', and the militant leftist organization ACORN.

Carl Davidson first met Barack Obama through the 'New Party', which endorsed the Barack Obama in his run for the Illinois state senate in 1996. Obama had actively sought this endorsement, and he used a number of New Party volunteers as campaign workers.

Interesting tidbit
According to 2006 divorce filings, Joe makes 40K a year. He's not buying any business and he's only going to be making 250K in his dreams. Plus, he doesn't even pay his taxes, so what does he have to worry about anyway?

Spelling error:"your" should be "you're"

Don't know why "spell check" doesn't know which "your" or "you're" I meant... :-)


Wealth cannot be spread.
Wealth cannot be spread.
There is no such thing.

Obama chose Bill Ayers

Bill Ayers is a carefully chosen friend of Barrack Obama. Born in 1944, Currently a professor of education at the University of Illinois.

Who is Bill Ayers?
------------------
1) Leader of the 1960s and 70s domestic terrorist group Weatherman. The Weatherman issued a 'Manifesto', calling for armed opposition to US policies, includig Capitalism and asked white radicals to launch a 'Race War' against 'White Skin Privilege'. Leaders like Mark Rudd (currently a mathematics professor at a New Mexico community college) traveled illegally to Cuba in 1968 for terroist training by Soviet KGB Colonel Vadim Kotchergine, who taught Marxist philosophy and urban warfare. Weather men always spelled America - 'AmeriKKKa'.

2) "Kill all the rich people. ... Bring the revolution home. Kill your parents." Bill Ayers

3) Participated in the bombings of New York City Police Headquarters in 1970, of the Capitol building in 1971, and the Pentagon in 1972. Ayers proudly stated that he didn’t "regret setting the bombs. I feel we didn’t do enough."

"America is NOT a just and fair and decent place - it makes me want to puke." Ayers said in 2001

In the mid-1990s, Ayers and his wife Bernardine Dohrn hosted meetings at their Chicago home to introduce Barack Obama to their neighbors during Barack Obama's first run for the Illinois Senate.

In 1999 Ayers joined the Woods Fund of Chicago, where he served as a director alongside Barack Obama until the Obama left the Woods board in December 2002.

Review of Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC) documents shows that Ayers and Obama each chaired the two CAC operating bodies from 1995 to 2000.

Michelle Obama started working at a law firm with Bernadette Dohrn, Ayers wife, in 1985.

Wealth spread=no wealth
Wealth spread= no wealth.

Moshe
Still waiting to hear what you have done to help young blacks succeed. I, whom you called a racist without any basis, have told you what I've done.

Michelle and Barack explain your Racism

Why are we defending ourselves?

Why are we defending ourselves against charges of racism, coming from Barack Obama and his followers? Obama attended a racist church 23 years?

A church who made the writings of 'Racist James Cone' required reading for all new members.

"Whiteness, as revealed in the history of America, is the expression of what is wrong with man. It is a symbol of man's depravity. God cannot be white, even though white churches have portrayed him as white. When we look at what whiteness has done to the minds of men in this country, we can see clearly what the New Testament meant when it spoke of the principalities and powers."
- James H. Cone; Black Theology & Black Power; 150
------------------------------------------------------

A church that awarded 'Racist Louis Farrakhan' a lifetime achievment award.

"The white man is our mortal enemy, and we cannot accept him." Farrakhan

"Six-thousand years ago, an evil wizard called Dr. Yacub created the white "race" in a genetic experiment." Farrakhan
-------------------------------------------------------

A church based on the 'Black Value System' and 'Black Separatism'.


"There is no doubt in my mind that as a member of the black community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the black community first and foremost". Michelle Obama

Do Not defend yourself against racism - make Barack and Michelle Obama prove to us they are NOT RACISTS!

Obam knows the consequences of socialism
He knows that our country is going down the tubes and he is planning on kicking us into the abyss. He is ashamed of America.
America is going to pay.

Higher taxes mean fewer jobs
For you left wing nut jobs out there who live in the "theoretical" world of a socialist utopia, here are the "real world" facts. I work for a large corporation that just cut jobs here in the U.S. and anounced that they are expanding their current manufacturing operations in Ireland. Ireland by the way has no corporate taxes, and one of the healthiest economies in the world. I don't care if corporations pay no taxes. Jobs do more to improve the economic situation of the poor and lower class than our government in their misguided wisdom could ever do. You want a hand up? Get a job.

Eleanor agrees with Sam Webb

"...Moreover, it is ready to strike the first and absolutely necessary blow in a few weeks, that is, to elect Barack Obama and bigger majorities in the House and Senate by a landslide..."

Author: Sam Webb, National Chair, Communist Party USA
First published 09/27/2008 17:43

------------------------------------------------------------------

"..marxism also says that state is an arena of struggle.

While the ruling class employs the state apparatus, including violence when necessary, to impose its interests on society, a united working class and people can successfully resist these measures from within as well as outside state structures.

This was done in the 1930s and in so doing, secured important victories for the nation’s working class and its allies.

It was also done in the 1960s and in doing so brought down the system of legal segregation. And we see it again today in the incredible efforts of millions of working people of all races and nationalities and their allies to elect Barack Obama and larger Democratic Party Congressional majorities in November.

Indeed, it is a task that takes on even greater significance given the financial storm that is shaking our country."

Author: Sam Webb, National Chair,
Communist Party USA
First published 09/23/2008 17:20



Doug
What have I done to help blacks succeed? What a condescending and patronizing attitude. Most blacks I know are perfectly capable of achieving on their own - they don't need the help of superior White man to give them a leg up

Somebody look in ajhil's wallet!

I'm betting he's a "card carrying Communist" and you'll find that card in his wallet!


Moshe
When are you going to understand that whether Joe the Plumber is real or not, Obama's tax plan still takes away money from one group and gives it to another?

Maybe you didn't have word problems in middle school or high school (or maybe you just weren't very good at them), but there were always things in those problems that got you to take your focus off of the real problem. And you need focus on the real problem now. Joe the plumber is not part of the problem, he is only a name in the word problem. It could have Cindy the hairdresser. OK? The real problem is Barrack Obama's tax plan (actually all of his plans) and how it/they will affect America. There are real people other than Joe who actually make more than $250k. Focus...Come on, now, you can do it.

Obama Thugocracy
I predict that Nobama in office will make "slick willie" Clinton look like an altar boy in comparison. Lawyers are despicable, to say the absolute least, and by signing up with B.O. you actually get three: His wife, who is not the model of equanimity, and Joe, the multi-gaff sidekick who will be effective in providing a smokescreen of deception. If you want true reform and transparency in government, don’t put a lawyer in charge. Of course, if you want real progress, Congress needs to be purged of all those slime-balls too.

Joycey
I used to be one of "the rich." I often used the term "spreading the wealth," and proudly & cheerfully.

Whenever I hired someone to do something I COULD have done myself, I said, "I'm spreading the wealth."

Whenever I bought something I could afford but I didn't absolutely NEED, I said, "I'm spreading the wealth."

Ronald Reagan might have called it "trickle-down."

But Obama believes in "trickle-up." I guess that's when GOVERNMENT is "spreading the wealth" instead of hard-working, high-earning Americans spending it themselves.

Recall the Democrats' attempt to punish the Evil Rich even more by adding a luxury tax to the purchase of luxury boats? Lots of not-so-rich boat makers lost their jobs. Whodathunkit???? And it didn't increase gov't tax revenues. Who cudda known??? They removed that luxury tax. I guess even for Dems, reality CAN set in.

Unfortunately, with an Obama presidency and a Dem Congress, their predictable damage could take decades to repair. But absolute guarantee: for many, many years they and the MSM will blame it all on "the disastrous Buch economic policy."

Obama doesn't care about anyone but
Himself. He doesn't care about the middle class. He is just saying what he thinks people want to hear, so he can get elected. He just happened to let his words slip and reveal his Marxist ideology when he wasn't reading off of a teleprompter. Nobody should be surprised most of his friends and mentors are either anarchists, racists, or Marxists. He even stated in his book that he sought out his friends among Marxists when he was in college.

Moshe
You say, "Most blacks I know are perfectly capable of achieving on their own - they don't need the help of superior White man to give them a leg up."

Then why the new definition of "affirmative action," whereby those who are incapable of achieving without the "White man" giving them preferences are given preferences?

Whether or not your observation is correct, the new, quota-imposing affirmative action seems almost, well, racist, doesn't it?

Moshe has come over to the right

Moshe wrote: "...they don't need the help of superior White man to give them a leg up..."

Moshe is now against 'Affirmative Action" and believes that every American Citizen should have the same Rights and Protections provided by the US Constitution and Bill of Rights - no more - no less.


All this info is great...
But McCain is losing, and he deserves to do so if he cannot run a competent campaign and stick to a single message. By the way, McCain certainly wasted no time in repudiating Bush. Do you think McCain suffers from BDS? But hearing McCain state that the country has been going in the wrong direction for the past eight years serves to validate everything GWB's detractors were saying for much of his presidency.

And if McCain has stood up to his party's leaders so much, then why did he seek the nomination as a Republican instead of as an Independent? So who was wrong, McCain or the party leaders he stood up to?

Obama's Personal 'O' Security Force

"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set," he said. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded."
Barack Obama Speech July 2, 2008 Colorado Springs CO
------------------------------------------------

Barack Obama said: 'civilian national security force'.

Civilian - Would MOT include military or other Law Enforcement agencies.
National - Would NOT recognize State Boundaries.
Security - Security for what?
Force - This word usually denotes power and authority.

Why does Barack Obama want a Civilian Security Force?
1) Just as powerful as the Military.
2) Just as strong as the Military.
3) Just as well funded as the Military.

What will Barack Obama have this 'Civilian National Security Force' do?

Silence anyone who dissents?


This is a joke, right
"When are you going to understand that whether Joe the Plumber is real or not"

I love this attitude - the guy totally misrepresents himself, and when called on it, the new talking points are, "well, even though he completely fabricated his background and he actually won't pay a dime more in taxes under Obama's plan, his point remains true...".

Honest question: If the tables had been turned, and McCain had been ambushed by an obvious Obama plant who misrepresented his background in an attempt to make McCain look bad, would you folks still trip all over yourselves to defend him?

I've always been
opposed to affirmative action. Unlike many people here, I don't look at politics as "team sport" where I just blindly choose a side to follow and feel the need to be in lockstep with every platform position of my party.

Moshe
Once again, you're not focusing on the answer, you're focusing on who asked the question which has nothing to do with the answer. Just like Obama and his camp is doing. Rather than answer the question with facts, they try to discredit the one who asks the question in order to take the focus off of the real answer.

And guess what, Obama has the wrong answer!

Moshe
One other thing, was the question a legitimate question? I think so. If Obama believes his tax plan is legitimate, then why the need to find out who Joe the plumber is? He has nothing to do with the answer to the question!

I hope Joe buys that....
...company, and that he does well because there's an "urban"-choked city near mine that's complete with high crime, decay, corruption and high taxes.

There are more welfare queens per square foot in that town than you can shake a stick at, and they keep makin' babies for bigger welfare checks. In short, they need Joe's money.

Brutha obama is a hero in that town right now, and I'm sure that the welfare queens are rejoicing knowing that the "have a baby, get a check" philosophy is alive and well.

Vote obama and life on the porch is going to get even easier.

Joe must suffer because...
Joe is a distraction from the fact that Obama revealed his "share the wealth" philosophy a little TOO CLEARLY this time. Joe unwittingly tripped Obama up and now Joe must suffer in order to distract from the real problem for Obama called 'the truth'.

The frustration I feel about it ALL has mounted to activism on on my part. I have moved ahead with email campaigns to undecideds and moderates I know who are voting for Obama because they think he is MODERATE. I have written an article with the goal of exposing his extreme agenda and I am pointing Obamam moderates and undecideds to read:

http://wellspringposts.blogspot.com

Its is basically the same article I posted at http://activated.blogtownhall.com where I include the links back to give 'politically drunk' credit. I chose to keep the post I am forwarding a little more neutral on a more neutral site on which some will be more comfortable visiting.

PLEASE join me in a campaign to intelligently and respectfully edify moderate voters for Obama and the undecided NOW. Time is of the essence
and moderate voters will and DO care about the issue when they hear about Obama's extreme social agenda presented in a respectful way. THIS HAS TURNED SOME VOTES ALREADY. PLEASE consider helping out and start emailing your contacts to get the truth out and thanks! (copy this):

Here is the post that moderate voters need to think about before November 4th. There is a conflict for fiscal moderates to resolve before casting a vote for Barack Obama. With enough discussion and thought, fiscally minded voters will need to confront this "contradiction of voting for Obama": http://wellspringposts.blogspot.com
Some will find it helpful for making a decision - some won't care about it. But if you and your friends are open to discussion it is a pretty interesting take on some issues that have changed since the start of this process.

JOE THE PLUMBER - NATIONAL HERO
I predict that the MSM's attack on Joe the Plumber will backfire. It frosts the cookies of average Americans when a work a day guy is being beaten up by the elites simply for speaking his mind about a politician's program.

The more the beatings continue, the better for McCain.


jonlanerose
The question was disingenuous, based on the background of the asker. If I went up to Sarah Palin and said "My wife was raped recently and is pregnant with rapist's baby. Do you think she should be forced to carry the baby to term", and it turned out I had made up the whole story, you don't think exposing my misinformation would be legitimate?

Moshe
So when I stay after school on my own time to help my students, both black and white, get higher SAT scores, and in many cases, scholarships, I'm being condescending and racist? That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. I didn't learn calculus on my own; I needed the help of people whose knowledge is superior to mine at the time. But I guess you think we ought to just give 'em a book and tell them to learn it from the book. Only once have I ever seen a student smart enough to do that.

But I now know the answer to my question: You have done absolutely nothing.

Has Joe made the big time?
You haven't arrived as a thinking person until Keith Uberdouche calls you the "Worst Person in the World"!!!

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Go 'Cuda, GO!!

Moshe
"Most blacks I know are perfectly capable of succeeding on their own"

My questions -- Then why aren't they? Why do I see them out walking the streets when they should be working. Why do I see them in a grocery store with their PJ's still on (sorry, I don't do that -- it's trashy not comfortable) in the middle of the day instead of in regular clothes. I see this when I am out on my lunch break doing errands.

It's not only blacks either. My opinion of those people is GET a JOB. I don't CARE if you have to flip hamburgers...DO it!!! Don't come running to me for help if you are not willing to help yourself.

So you are right blacks don't need a hand up from me. Then please start telling the government to get rid of WIC, Welfare Checks, Food Stamps -- which they are picking my pocket to give to these people who won't work, and give it back to me...believe me, I'll spend the money at McDonald's or some other way which will help Keep those people gainfully employed -- Get it?

Moshe
There's no sense debating with someone who clearly can't focus on the issue.

But let me conclude with this. If Sarah Palin was asked that question about abortion, I'm certain she would have sense enough to answer it based on her convictions and not go on a wild goose chase to find out about the one who posed the question. Unless the question is something that absolutely cannot happen and is not based upon reality, then there is no reason for Obama or Palin or anyone to dismiss the question and go after the questioner. What matters is the answer to the question and not the one who asks it.

Doug
You are intentionally twisting my words around to fit your own agenda. I think it is patronizing that you *specifically* pointed out the blacks that you help, instead of just seeing them as any other students.

And I find it curious that you want me to specifically point out where I have helped black people improve their station. The suggestion you're making is that without help, they would be unable to succeed on their own merits, which is racist.

Instructing the uninformed
Doug – Wrong! Obama’s plan taxes the tiny fraction of the population with incomes > $250K. If you examined the facts, under Obama’s tax plan most people will have more money, not less. Average middle class families will save 3x as much in taxes as under McCain’s plan. Show me I’m wrong.

Jonlanerose – Congratulations! You almost understand. Most businesses will not increase prices for the precise reason that they would lose even more in reduced sales. Same goes for capital purchases. Unless they’re make frivolous purchases, they can’t cut back without impinging on business. That’s the idea: they will make less & people in lower income groups will have lower taxes.
Since income disparity is greater than at any time in more than a century, upper income groups can afford this & the vast majority of people will do better. Screech all you like about “income redistribution” & “socialism” (which it isn’t), although I’ll bet you’re in the income group that would benefit. You know what? It’s just too damn bad! You lassez faire capitalist morons who’re so eager to go on supporting the Republican elite will just have to suck it up & take the money. You’re going to be outvoted; it’s the American way.
Of course, you can always move to China, which is still an unregulated capitalist plutocracy & see how you like really living by the principles you so mindlessly espouse.

Anne – Gee, what a clever comment. You imbecile!

wrong premise
In re the statement, "The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) and the Joint Committee on Taxation have estimated that extending the capital gains tax cut enacted in 2003 would cost $100 billion over the next decade." The underlying premise is that cutting the capital gains tax would constitute a "cost."
You incur a cost when you expend your money to obtain something. The Federal Government does not have any money that it does not confiscate from the citizens in the form of taxes. When government cuts or eliminates taxes, it does not incur a cost, because it is not paying out money that it already has, it is confiscating less from us.
The idea that cutting taxes "costs" the government some amount of money is based on the assumption that your money, our money, is not ours, but rather the government's and if they let us keep more of what is ours to begin with, they are "giving" us something, and that is a cost to them. This is arrant nonsense, unless you are a socialist, marxist, or a communist.
The government does not "run" our economy, but they can do things to cripple it, especially increasing taxes. If they really wanted to get the economy moving in the right direction, quickly,they would eliminate the capital gains tax, and the corporate income tax, for at least the next five years.

Moshe
Speaking of twisting words around, wasn't it you who called me a racist and a Ku Klux Klansman, based solely upon the fact that I labeled as thugs people who intimidate, threaten, and try to destroy the reputations of those with whom they disagree politically? If you don't remember, my original post was #6, and your baseless reply was removed for being so stupid.

Kool-Aid Drinkers won't listen or read
Look at the garbage that falls out of their mouth:

"Joe doesn't make near 250,000 a year!" they cry. Too bad, like the article says, Joe's talking about a business he's angling to buy, not his current income. Of course, Neo-Communist thugs never let pesky things like The Facts get in the way of their ideological rantings.

"Joe's not a plumber. He doesn't have a license!" they protest. Pity that the article already points out that you don't need a license to do plumbing work in his state on residential property, only commercial property. What they are really saying is, "Joe's not a member of our labor union so we can't punish him. He can't be called a real plumber!" Again, the intimidation and deception of the Neo-Communists is beyond the pale.

They even talk about how Obama is going to "cut taxes for 95% of Americans" even though 33% of American tax-filers pay $0 for Federal Income Taxes. Only in the sick brain of a Kool-Aid drinker is a Welfare Check a Tax Cut.

Face it: Obama screwed up. He admitted in public what you all stand for.

We should ALL be scared
I am sorry, I am not one for throwing the terms "Hitler" and "SS" around, but come on people! When you ask a politician asking for YOUR vote a question, and someone happens to capture it on tape and play it - YOU WILL be dragged through the mud, with your voting records looked at (I thought that was private), your tax records gone through by anyone who pleases, and even your divorce is up for inspection. The people thinking this is okay are fools - yes fools!
Even if you like Obama and want to vote for him, you should FEAR a country where if you dare ask, even the wrong question, and you will be investigated to no end and all of your information will be on the news and in who knows what government file.
This is not okay. We, as Americans, should be rising up with one voice saying "stop it". Who cares what this man does for a living? He asked a question! That was it! He didn't sponsor a TV ad, he didn't do anything but ask a question! And now he is being put through the ringer.
While I was upset with the treatment of Sarah Palin - at least she was a politician. This is a citizen. Wake up people! Before the SS (Secret Service) comes knocking on your door when you dare ask "the wrong" question.

ajhil
You do realize that higher taxes would mean less money for the business to spend, don't you? Just like an individuals taxes, if the government takes more from you as an individual, then you have less to spend. Correct? How could things NOT worsen for businesses and the economy with Obama's plan? Businesses are in business to make profit. And the government should NOT be in business to make profit. Government should also not be allowed to tell a business how much money is too much.

Your problem is that you are a communist and not American. And, by the way, I make about 3 times less than $250k gross. I simply have moral and ethical convictions that taking from someone else by force is stealing. I believe in freedom and the charity of the American people to do good and "spread the wealth" individually, rather than allow a government to do it for us. So, this is the last time I'm going to respond to you.

Media Exposes Itself - Again
I find it ASTOUNDING that the media has done more investigative journalism about Joe the plumber then they have about Barak the messiah. One poor guys has the stones to ask a simple question, and now we get to see real journalism in action. Now we get to know about Joe's personal history, his tax records, whether or not he's a licensed plumber, and on and on. Who cares? Joe is a private citizen who asked a question. That's it. So instead of questioning the response of the candidate, the media today is going to character assassinate the poor schlub who asked the question. Once again, mainstream media has revealed themselves for what they are, the rabid attack dogs of the democratic party.

Doug
"If you don't remember, my original post was #6, and your baseless reply was removed for being so stupid."

Wait, wait, wait - so on a website where the dreaded "C" word (Communist) is thrown around with abandon towards Obama, the very same website censors viewpoints that differ from the majority (and then hides behind calling them stupid)? And this is the party that supposedly loves and defends freedom??????? I guess freedom is allowed only if it is in lockstep with the people in charge.

Obama's Iron Ceiling
The real issue, as some have noted, is not Joe the Plumber's bonafides, or income. The issue is that the guy who wants to be President believes that it is job to put a ceiling on success. "You may rise thus far, & no higher."

The Wizard of Oz
"The real issue, as some have noted, is not Joe the Plumber's bonafides, or income"

Translation:

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Sorry, I can't resist, Moshe
You would be correct in referencing the Wizard of Oz, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" if only you could realize that Obama is the Wizard and Joe the Plumber is Toto.

The message is the same
No matter who asked the question....the answer is the same!

The left is now trying to CANCEL what Obama said because Joe didn't actually make $250,000 right now!

Critical thinking among the radical libs is dead.

You can't cancel Obama's answer but you will try at all cost to destroy Joe to do it.

The issue of the entire situation is WHAT OBAMA SAID....in response to a question from a guy who has dreams of one day owning a business that makes over $250,000.

A legitimate question! He is thinking about his future and his goals!

I am amazed that some are saying...hey, he makes $40,000 a year he is going to benefit from Obama's tax plan.

Does it ever occur to those on the liberal left that not every average Joe wants to stay average...that they dream of achieving through hard work and going that extra mile and being brave enough to put themselves out there to attain those goals?

Does it ever occur to the liberal left that not everyone in the lower and middle income level want to stay there and would rather have a hand up than a hand out?

Show me one neighborhood that ACORN, CAC, Woods Foundation has helped. You won't find any! Chicago slums and schools are worse today than when Obama starting his community organizing in the 80's.

The laughable trickle up theory DOES NOT WORK!

The trickle down theory WILL work once we vote all those our who manipulate and corrupt the trickle down theory!

The problem in this country is greed, corruption, manipulation of markets and capitalism and the dems and repubs who have allowed it to go on for so long!

It is not capitalism and freedom!

In afterthought of the Wizard of Oz
analogy. How true it is that Obama the Wizard has been revealed by Joe the plumber from behind the curtain. And as was realized in the real story of Dorothy and her three companions, the world doesn't actually need the Wizard to fix all of our problems. It was in us all along. Too bad too many people are living in a fantasy world like Dorothy and think they actually need Obama to fix the world's problems.

Joe the plumber
My father was a plumber, and even though he did the best job in town, it was a hard job to purchase the plumbing equipment (pipe, fixtures, etc) out of pocket and try and get the money back from the customers without losing credit. If these so-called hecklers about "fighting for Joe the plumber" don't like plumbers, let them do their OWN plumbing and see how far they get!!!

Moshe
No, referencing the Ku Klux Klan does not get a comment deleted. My comment #19 is still there. I called Democrat Senator Robert Byrd a Ku Klux Klansman. He is one.

Your reply was deleted because (and I'm explaining this for the third time) you called me a racist and a Ku Klux Klansman after I did nothing but refer to as thugs people who threaten, intimidate, and lie to destroy people's reputations. Can you explain your logic that led you to the conclusion that I am a Ku Klux Klansman because I referred to to as thugs people who threaten, intimidate, and lie to destroy people's reputations?

Nice try
"Does it ever occur to those on the liberal left that not every average Joe wants to stay average...that they dream of achieving through hard work and going that extra mile and being brave enough to put themselves out there to attain those goals?"

How hard could Joe be working towards that goal if he hasn't even bothered to get licensed? Also, while I have full sympathy for people who don't earn a lot of money, I have to wonder how exactly Joe plan on buying a company on 40K a year. What's he going to use for payment, Monopoly money.

Doug
You really need me to explain why I think it is racist to use the term "thug" in reference to the first black major party candidate for president?

moshe . . .
again???
It's not about Joe the Plumber, but the point he brought up about barack hussein obama's true intentions as to income redistribution.
Have you ever heard about starting up a business on a small (minimal) basis? It is possible to start up almost any service business with just ONE person. As the business grows, (even by word of mouth) additional personnel are hired to handle the additional work.
In most regulated trades, a license holder does not have to be the owner. Usually, only one "qualified person (licensed)" is required.
If barack hussein obama becomes president, I would suggest that small businesses do work "under the table". Informal internet networks could be set up (encrypted) so that customers could utilize the services of competent small businesses. Black market anyone?? (no pun intended)

Moshe/ajhil
When it comes to economics, you both fail. Quit embarrassing your selves.

I think it would take both of you to make a mud pie.

John Kennedy once said, you only hurt the poor no matter what segment(rich,middle,poor) of society you raise taxes on and the middle class will soon becomes the poor.

tj
Any particular reason you refer to Obama by his full name, including middle? Do you do the same when referring to Sarah Palin or John McCain?

ALL
The e-mail i just received shows Obama with a book, and that book is 'THE WORLD POST AMERICA' 'the muslim view'.

And no it is not fake!

I would forward it to this site if i knew how.

LD35
"Moshe/ajhil
When it comes to economics, you both fail"

And yet, at the same age as Joe the Plumber I already own a successful small business (and we're licensed too, nothing illegal here) instead of just talking about it, and earn more than twice what he does. So, actually, I win.

Typical
Demoscum wanting to take from those who work hard, pay their taxes do something with their life and give it to those victacrats who haven't earned it, worked for it, nor deserve it. This all in the name of being fair. How is it fair to the guy or girl who worked their ars off that becomes successful and steal what they rightfully earned and give it to those who didn't earn it? THIS IS NOT FAIRNESS! It is government socialist theft where a few elitist such as Obama have all the weatlh, power and control to decide who should have what.

Obama says "I don't mind paying higher taxes". Well then Mr. socialist dig deep into your pocket, write a check to the US treasury and give, no one is stopping you. And for a half brother living on $12/day I don't see Obama doing anything to help him, but he'll gladly take from us to help the worlds poor. Giving to those in need should always be voluntary not forced theft by the socialist Demoscum!

The Obama Hope for America
Obama Common Good Housing
By Binyamin Appelbaum
Globe Staff / June 27, 2008
CHICAGO - "The squat brick buildings of Grove Parc Plaza, in a dense neighborhood that Barack Obama represented for eight years as a state senator, hold 504 apartments subsidized by the federal government for people who can't afford to live anywhere else.

But it's not safe to live here.

About 99 of the units are vacant, many rendered uninhabitable by unfixed problems, such as collapsed roofs and fire damage. Mice scamper through the halls. Battered mailboxes hang open. Sewage backs up into kitchen sinks. In 2006, federal inspectors graded the condition of the complex an 11 on a 100-point scale - a score so bad the buildings now face demolition.

Grove Parc has become a symbol for some in Chicago of the broader failures of giving public subsidies to private companies to build and manage affordable housing - an approach strongly backed by Obama as the best replacement for public housing.

Joe
McCain was the one that THRUST Joe in the limelight. NOT OBAMA! McCain used his name over 20 times during the debate. And then JOE did several interviews outside his house and thoroughly enjoyed the celebrity status UNTIL people did research on him. It's his own fault. And McCain fault. And the media's fault. NOT Obama.

It's Joe's OWN FAULT
McCain was the one that THRUST Joe in the limelight. NOT OBAMA! McCain used his name over 20 times during the debate. And then JOE did several interviews outside his house and thoroughly enjoyed the celebrity status UNTIL people did research on him. It's his own fault. And McCain fault. And the media's fault. NOT Obama.

Moshe
For the fourth time, I referred to as thugs the FOLLOWERS of Obama (both black and white) who threaten, intimidate, and tell lies to destroy the reputations of those with whom they disagree politically. Please tell me in which of my posts I called Obama a thug. None of my posts have been deleted.

Whenever liberals find themselves unable to use facts or logic to refute the ideas of those with whom they disagree (which is most of the time) they resort to threats in order to silence them or personal attacks to try to discredit them. Rarely does a liberal even make an attempt at refutation. Tough to do when the facts aren't on your side.

Madison
Who cares who put Joe in the spotlight, the issue here is Obama's socialist government theft of wealth redistribution.

Doug
Ok, I apologize for calling you racist. That was wrong.

However, is it thuggery to do research on someone who has become newsworthy? Why should Joe the Plumber be immune from scrutiny? Wouldn't reporters *NOT* be doing their job to not do any research on the guy who was such a focal point of the debate.

It seems to me that conservatives are just upset that Joe turned out to be a fraud and are now changing the narrative to, "The evil liberal media attack dogs are all over this poor, innocent guy"

Joe may be a fraud
but face it, if Joe was singing Obama's tune and not pointing out the unfairness of Obama's socialist government theft, the media would all but ignore this guy.

Funny how fast they can dig stuff up on this guy(and Governor Palin for that matter) but after 2yrs of Obama running ignore all the damning facts of their almighty savior Obama.

The Obama Thugocracy
Obama has not been properly vetted. Other wise Joe would never had to ask his question.

Joe, its simple. Obama is a Maxist. That means you work...and support the rest of the lazy ones.
Its called "Income Distribution".
The Pilgrims tried this in 1620 and half of them starved to death....until they allowed individual farms and gardens. Barack was in Kenya and missed this part of American History.

Moshe @ 11:22
How about you stay out of peoples'(Joe the plumber) personal business? You a mind reader, or what? You can look into the future?
Fact is, Obama said what he said.

You, and others on his side, like to distort the facts to confuse people to the reality of Obama, his alliances, and his history.

Going by your name, I'd guess you're voting on skin color and not COUNTRY FIRST.

Character Assassination
One of the Left's favorite tactics (along with Identity Politics, Political Correctness, and Moral Relativity) is Character Assassination.

Anyone with a point of view that might gain traction and cost them some votes must be oblitered. It's not enough to disagree, they must be personally destroyed. This has a twofold effect: first, it destroys the credibility of the person's argument because if you destroy a their credibility, who cares about their opinion...second, it intimidates people from speaking out in the future.

I've read it was Stalin who developed this as a political tactic and it sounds about right.

Next we'll be reading Joe is not only a nazi and racist, but a cannibal too.

In a Obama
socialist America, you would have two classes of people. One is the ruling class & the other is peasants .

Just like the USSR, we will become a third world country.
Do you want that?

Joe attacks are directed at YOU
The real message of this episode is directed at you, the Obama dissenter: SHUT YOUR MOUTH. You have no right to question The Overlord. If you do, you will be smeared in the court of public opinion. We will spend more time researching you than we spent looking into Bill Ayers. If we could, we would put you in a cage or behind barbed wire. So shut your pasty face. Go have a nice nap. It's almost over.

Joe, the Leftist Nitwit, Biden
In this Country we many Joe's - we have "regular Joes," cup of joe, Joe the Plumber, and Joe, the Delaware leftist. Not only does Biden make stupid mistakes, but he's also a liar! He'

Huh?
"Going by your name, I'd guess you're voting on skin color and not COUNTRY FIRST."

Ignorant comment of the day award. Moshe, for your information, is a Hebrew name. I'm as white as it gets.

doug
what you experienced is similar to what several black posters who infest these threads resort to.

To question farrakhan's messiah or talk of blacks avoiding responsibility for their own actions always results in charges that whites can't understand what it is to be black or that we can't understand the lasting effects of slaver and segregation

While no one claims to understand what others have endured in the past we can see the results of those who fail to get an education or do any number of destructive acts that impact not only their lives or those they are involved with.

But that in itself does not make anyone a racist or a member of the kkk just because they fail to understand destructive lifestyles or the results of making poor choices.

But it is disturbing to hear b hussein talk of the need for more affirmative action and that some form of reparations are owed to make up for slavery and segregation.

I still fail to understand the notion of inherited sin, especially since my family escaped hitler and were only working class folks living in cleveland, ohio

Understanding economics goes a long way
Ms. Byrd, your blog, while thoughtful stretches the topic as much to the right as Joe Biden stretched the topic to the left. It's time for America to wake up and actually educate themselves on the tax plans instead of listening to pundits and bloggers who know next to nothing about econimics and tax law. Also, take a look at the tax plans from both candidates, except for a few percentage points, their proposals are much the same. Stop the partisan nonsense and start working together for real solutions instead of pointing fingers like five year olds. Obama admitted to Joe the Plumber that he knew the tax plan wouldn't benefit everyone, but I feel he really put some thought into his proposals. Given the fact that the middle class is disappearing, Obama felt it would be more fair to place the burden on those who can afford the burden than to add more pressure to already-struggling businesses and families. Give the guy credit before you start screaming "socialists!"

Yes, understanding economics does go
along way and that's why Obama's economic plan is socialism. It's wealth redistribution, which is a lie when they say it's about fairness. Socialism/wealth redistribution doesn't work and hasn't worked, why do think America has been one of the most prosperous nations in the past? It wasn't from tax plans like Obama's.

The facts show you lower capital gains tax the government takes in more tax - not less. The facts show you let businesses keep more of their profits they invest into hiring more people which raises tax revenues. Just the opposite happens when you tax them more, they lay people off and then the government collects less tax - not more.

Brindi
Do you think it's a good thing for the country if 5% pay most of its costs while the other 95% enjoy most of its benefits?

Because it's FAIR?

Because the rich didn't and don't work for their money--beginning in grade school and continuing for their entire lives?

And because "the poor" should have everything "the rich" have, no more, no less, because it's fair?

Way to encourage people to strive to better themselves, Brindi. And be sure to start early, start in grade school, have the kids deposit their own school supplies in a central place so that the teacher may distribute them equitably. Oh wait, they're already doing that. Never mind.

I believe Obama will keep his promise to let the Bush tax cuts (which benefited the poor and middle class more than the rich, by the way) lapse. And what will you do if, like Bill Clinton, President Obama works harder than he ever worked in his life and just can't find a way to give that tax cut to the middle class? And, like it was for Bill Clinton, it will be because Bush left us in such sorry condition that there's just no way to cut anyone's taxes.

Admit you've been duped? (But oh well, at least he's clean and articulate.)

Attacks on Joe the Plumber
and Sarah Palin just verifiy the GestapoKGB tactics of the left.

Obamaniacs have been busy terrorizing conservative ed. letter writers, talk-show guests and hosts, and web sites--showing they are anit-civil rights and anti-civil liberties

just as their ObamaMessiah is anti-white, antiSemitic, anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-West, and anti-capitalism.

and cannot tolerate any criticism or discussion that doesn't applaud and aggrandize him.

Slow on the Socialist Uptake
Why has it taken the columnists on TownHall, and other venues for that matter, to assert forcefully that Obama is a radical, totalitarian Marxist with nefarious plans to do a bloodless coup beginning in Jan '08? ACORN street organizing pimps, brown shirt operatives (St Louis and Chicago), communist culturing (Frank Davis), Marxist organizing training (Alinsky), terrorism and democracy deconstruction (Ayers), Black Values Socialist Theology training (Wright) and now all of a sudden (perhaps too late) conservative writers are suggesting, oh my, he might be a radical, totalitarian socialist? Then in tandem with Dems in both houses he'll legislatively impose union card-signing thuggery, cut off talk radio, give aliens drivers licenses so they can vote.... all to create an unassailable federal voting bloc. What the hell is wrong with us? We've let the Far Left beat up on us with political correctness to silence us and we're on the verge of disaster, possibly the end of America as we know it.

Wake up, America, or die in your sleep!!

noboma and the MSM
How plain can it get--noboma and the MSM are in bed together. MSM's are so stupid, katie is a prime example, along with many others.

Communism is really rearing it ugly head. Share the wealth? How can you dimwits support noboma?

If you don't wake up, we all will be in deep do-do.

Pay attention to Joe The Plumber's question of the ""chosen one"" Share the wealth??

One after another ...
Jking – Okay, I’ll call your bluff. Where and what are the facts that support your assertion? The Congressional Budget office doesn’t agree with you. They say that the Bush tax cuts will ultimately cost the U.S. $100 billion. The U.S. Treasury Department says the same thing. So does the Bush administration’s Office of Management and the Budget. So where’s your proof? Did Prof. Hannity tell you or maybe Dr. Limbaugh?

JohnR22 – Please clarify which of the facts that the press has uncovered about Joe the Faux-plumber is false?

Jim – Interesting history about the Pilgrims. Your source?

LD35 – You can tell the image you describe isn’t fake. How can you tell? How about a reference to the book itself: who wrote it? Who published it?

tj – Awesome. Recommending black marketeering. You’re a real patriot! Got any other great patriotic suggestions? How about bombing some liberals?

bj – Exactly when has “trickle down” economics worked? Name a time period and give some facts to back up your claim … if you can.

Did McCain ask Joe for permission?
Before making him into a household name and a central feature of his political campaign, did John McCain ask "Joe the Plumber" for permission to do so, or at least give him a heads up? When McCain says "Joe the plumber" won the debate why should it be surprising that the news media (not just the "Obama thugocracy") would try to find out more about his situation? As for Biden's comments, he was referring to the fact that most plumbers do not make anywhere near $250,000 a year, and would therefore stand to benefit more from Obama's tax cuts than from McCain's.

Oblahmas Economic "Plan"
Trickle-up poverty...

Oblahma-Bin-Biden : Can't trust them to manage a three chair shoe-shine parlor!

ajhil, I'll answer
For bj: Let's see, Ronald Reagan lowered taxes--on everyone, rich and poor. During Reagan's 8-year administration, income to the treasury doubled.

Unfortunately, the Democrat Congress spent that windfall, even faster than it came in.

For Jim: If you want an example other than the pilgrims, please Google Robert Owen, New Harmony, Indiana. Learn how he created a utopian community based on "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." He was a rich guy, started it with his own money. Apparently he wasn't quite rich enough; treating adults like dependent children is very costly.

But America is rich, much like Mr. Owen. For some short period of time, Obama WILL be able to take from the rich, give to the poor.

Note what ultimately happened to Mr. Owen.

For JohnR22: It doesn't matter whether the investigation of Joe the Plumber turned up facts that showed he's pretty much a regular Joe. Shouldn't that fact, in and of itself, cause Obama (who reallyreally cares about regular Joes) to be sympathetic? Why in the world would he make fun of Joe as he's doing??? Is he just showing his true feeling about regular Joes? Or maybe Joe's just not quite poor enough to warrant Obama's sympathy. Perhaps his sympathy is only for those who contribute NOTHING to this country--except their votes.

Joe Whoever
It doesn't matter who or what "Joe the Plumber" is. What matters is B Hussein Obama's answer to "Joe the Plumber's" question.

Moshe
I just knew you had to be some no-good minority sponger, probably black, but maybe brown or yellow. (They’re all bad!) Bet you didn’t know that the way you write your posts would betray your filthy ethnic heritage, but the keen eyes and penetrating wit of people like s.r. found you out!
We on the right have probed every aspect of Barack Obama’s life looking for some scandal to use against him, but that’s different than investigating Joe the Plumber's claims. He’s on our side, the side of goodness and light, one of the “good guys”, and therefore he should be spared fact checking by the perfidious fourth estate!
So keep posting your slack brained, drug crazed, communist-fascist-socialist-Maoist-free soilist-Jewish mafia-Native American-PETA-pervert BS. We're not listening.

Jonlanerose –
Like everyone on the far right you want to restrict charity to individual donations, because that way you can deny help to those you consider unworthy. That’s why public assistance should never be left up to you or anyone like you!
As for your first question, Obama’s tax plan gives middle class families 3x as much tax relief as McCain’s tax scheme. How do businesses prosper from that? Because middle class families actually spend that money – they have to. Giving money to the very rich, who don't need it to live, just increases the size of their portfolios. Too bad you’ve chickened out of the discussion or I’d challenge you to refute any of this; but I guess you don’t have the courage of your convictions. Not very impressive. Doesn't it bother you late at night, when you're waiting to fall asleep and you realize that you can't justify any of the conservative baloney you've been fed?
As for your accusation that I’m a communist, you’ve already demonstrated you don’t know what socialism means. Now you’ve enlarged your sphere of ignorance. Congratulations!

Seriously concerned...........
about the incredible epidemic of complete insanity that is in the process of ravaging the Democratic party.

Who in their right mind would attack this guy for asking a good question?

The only problem is that if they win, it will infect us all.

Lord Help Us! (literally)

despicable
Watching the media and Obummer's operatives sniffing around in this private citizen's personal life, all because he had the nerve to ask Lord BO a question that emarassed him, is sickening.

Pay attention voters- your lives and freedoms are NOT safe in the hands of Obummer and his communist friends. And the more local "useful idiots" and Obama Youth just might be pounding on YOUR door some night.

Think it can't happen here? Ask Joe.

Be VERY afraid...
If an innocent question gets an average citizen investigated and attacked NOW, what will happen to soemone who dares to criticize the anointed one if he makes it to the White House? Off to the gulag?

There may still be hope, though, as there may yet be a BIG shoe or two to drop...

1. When the recording of Michelle Obama's recent telephone call to African Press International is made public, she and hubby will have some 'splaining to do.

2. Obama's money-man, Tony "the fixer" Rezko, is currently "singing" from his jail cell to federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald (he of Scooter Libby fame).

3. There may yet be a Kenyan birth certificate.

4. ACORN-Obama links may lead to a RICO indictment, and more "singing."

5. U.S. Congressman Eni Faleomavaega, a non-voting, long time Democrat Congressman from American Samoa and an Obama supporter, visited Indonesia in July of 2007 and is suspected of securing government records damaging to Obama’s candidacy (i.e., proof of his Indonesian adoption and citizenship). In exchange for document turnover and document suppression, money would change hands, and the Congressman would attempt, through Obama, to foster a “hands off” policy with regard to the Indonesian government’s continuing suppression of rights of Christians in Papua. THAT, friends, calls for jail time - or at least deportation back to Indonesia.

More at:

http://www.colony14.net

...especially the "Obama Timeline," "What Obama would do..." and "Obama's 95% tax cut lie"

LD35 is right
The fact of the matter regarding socialism/communism is that it is NOT about redistributing the wealth and I find it appalling that the voting public doesn't have a clue. Socialialism/communism is all about CONCENTRATING the wealth into the hands of a very small and elite few while consigning the rest of us to what they euphemistically call a "simple lifestyle." IOW, poverty. Look at the former Soviet Union; Party leaders lived in luxury while "the masses" lived in poverty. And how can we forget Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceaucescu? With gold fixtures in the royal bath it's obvious that he lived royally.

Patrick Henry said, "Give me liberty or give me death!" Slavery is not acceptable.

The Clintons wrote the playbook
With what, 700 FBI dossiers in the White House? All of prominent non-Clinton-supporters?

Federal Felony? YES!

And President Hussien knows they got away with it. His campaign is already using Gestapo/NKVD/KGB/Stasi tactics with the "truth squads" and ACORN. How bad will it get when he has (illegal) access to FBI files?

worry about plumbers. As in Nixon.
Just wait until the messiah has the FBI to track down any who annoys him. Don't expect anyone in the media to complain when political hacks are placed in EVERY SINGLE U.S.ATTORNEY position. After all, what the messiah wishes is good, what opposes him is evil by definition. The only good thing to come from Obama's Presidency is the good and decent African Americans who will flock to the Republican party in embarassed realization of what he is.

Polly – Thanks for answering, but …
Your info’s wrong!

According to the U.S. Treasury Dept., Reagan’s 1981 Economic Recovery Tax Act (largest cut ever) produced a huge decrease in revenue (about 3% GDP). Overall his tax cuts reduced revenue by about 1% GDP. (Source: U.S. Treasury Dept: Working Paper 81. Follow the link & check it! I’ll bet your claim comes from a Heritage Foundation article by Daniel Mitchell, not exactly an unbiased source! He fails to adjust for inflation or to take into account increasing GDP during Reagan’s term.)

Reagan’s tax cuts benefited the very wealthy. Top marginal tax rates fell from 70% to 28%. To offset the losses Reagan (advised by right wing economic guru, Alan Greenspan) supported the largest tax increase in American history, disguising it as an increase in FICA (which affects mostly the poor & middle class). Nevertheless his irresponsible spending on the military (e.g. “Star Wars” ) & his disastrous trade policies combined with the bailout of the Savings & Loan industry (thanks to Charles Keating, John McCain & other anti-regulatory Republicans) to quadruple the national debt to more than $3 trillion.

I don’t understand how those on the far right can support bogus theories and economic policies hostile to their own interests. Are you aware, Polly, of how polarized wealth has become in the U.S.? Don’t you feel like a sucker, slogging along, generating wealth so that the economic elites can live like Croesius?

Just Joe being Joe....
Biden has a permanent place in his mouth for either foot. The Washington establishment shrugs him off saying "That's just Joe being Joe." He said yesterday or the day before, addressing a crowd "I know what our country needs and it's a three-letter word (paraphrasing here) That three-letter word is...J-O-B-S! Yep, Joe being Joe! He never misses an opportunity to be a fool. Also,in discussing "Joe the Plumber," Biden said "No plumber in my neighhood earns 250 grand a year.
Well folks, I know the neighbood Biden lives in, it's about 30 miles from my home. His little chateau is worth 350-400 million bucks.
Damned right there are no plumbers living in Biden's neighborhood, just like that favorite coffee shop/diner he said he visits in Delaware to talk with "the people." That place has been closed for over 5 years. Just Joe being Joe!
Lest we forget, the man is a United States Senator,and party to voting for America's future.

How 'bout that!
And from the party of "the little guy", "the downtrodden" and the poor comes big government folks to tear into this little guy's life!! Oh it's OK to be the "average Joe" as long as your interests do not conflict with "the party"..... The Democratic party has been hi-jacked by big money!!! Can't you democrat useful idiots see that??

Seriously, Polly ...

You folks here write constantly about “fairness” but do you know what you’re talking about in reality?

Do you know that …

… people who derive their income primarily from investments (that is, the super wealthy) pay tax of around 15% on that money, while you and I pay 30% or more on money we earn by working.

… the wealthiest 1% of people in the U.S. control more than 40% of the country’s wealth. (Can you even conceive being that rich? I can’t!)

… more than half of all U.S. corporations pay zero (that’s right, zero!) income tax on corporate profits.

… through their Republican surrogates (like John McCain!) the fabulously wealthy want to decrease capital gains even more, eliminate the inheritance tax altogether (thus allowing their huge fortunes to grow indefinitely) and reduce or abolish the progressive income tax.

Do you like the way this is going? So you really think this kind of economy or the society it produces is “fair”? Or desirable? Or healthy?

If not, what would you do about it?

Just curious.

ajhil
you don't like capitalism perhaps you would prefer what hugo is doing in venezuela.

He haters capitalism and is comfiscating businesses and ending their democracy so he can dictator for life.

But one of the left's hero's old swimmer kennedy keeps all his wealth in offshore accounts to avoid paying taxes. Since he is active in wasting taxpayer dollars for his ideas of how socialism is the best course for america, shouldn't he also pay to support his theories.

Btw the richest congressional districts in the country are all represented by the dims. If you are bothered by the tax laws then get your dim buddies to write better tax laws

To ajhil a naïve proletariat


You to will aid the communist who will be POTUS and not understand that your class envy makes you a tool, the proletariat, for Obama, your intelligentsia, your Leninist leader while the press employs it’s Stalinist tactics against anyone who crosses the path or the imperative of your leader. Look at what happened to “Joe the Plumber”; he asks a valid question, Obama’s communistic attitude finally reflects it’s true self and then the Obama machine and the press (Same organization if you don’t know) attacks him and attempts to belittle him and destroy his reputation. Now, just think how it will be with your leader, Barack Obama, as POTUS.. Don’t dare criticize him as the IRS or maybe a mob from ACORN will be at your doorstep digging into your every human foible.

“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”…. Karl Marx

“ Well I don’t mean to penalize you, but I think its best if we spread your wealth around”… Barack Obama

Jani, is there anything you do know?
Don't know about Joe's home state, but, one can work completely within the letter of the law doing plumbing work here without a license. Each plumbing company has, at least, one licensed plumber who supervises the other plumbers. The company has the license, bonding, insurance and so on. It is easily within the realm of possibility that the owner of a plumbing company employing 1/2 a dozen people doing plumbing work could make $250,000.

Do you leftists really understand anything? The whole point is, as pointed out in the article, is what your dear sweet Obama said. Comprehension seems to be a weak point on the left.

Moshe, The Connsumate Idiot
Or left wing zealot who cares not for truth or anything else but left wing rule. Anything, no matter how heinous or stupid is justified if it promotes the religon of liberalism.

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD, JOE COULD BE A MARTIAN AND A BABY RAPER AND IT WOULD NOT JUSTIFY YOUR DIETY'S ANSWER.

You are either incredibly stupid or amazingly dishonest, you choose which.

It's time ...
... to begin investigating right wing politicians and their supporters for their troublesome history of disloyalty to America.
George Bush - guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity, Bush has gone to great lengths, lied and committed fraud in order to involve the U.S. in two disastrous wars, which have contributed to the current financial disaster. Bush's family has long standing ties with the bin Laden family which they've never adequately explained.
John McCain was involved with Charles Keating in the massive Savings and Loan scandal that defrauded tens of thousands of Americans, may of them elderly citizens, of their life savings. McCain has never apologized adequately or explained his role in trying to shield Keating from investigation.
McCain has close ties to convicted domestic terrorist G. Gordon Liddy, who served four years in prison for the notorious Watergate burglary, during which Liddy planned to murder an innocent victim and was prevented from carrying out his deadly plan by circumstance. Liddy has donated thousands of dollars to McCain's political career and held a fund-raiser in his home for the right wing Senator.

Moshe and his fellow travelers
have proved, without a doubt, that the author of this opinion piece is 100% correct.

I have seen NO justifications for the Obama answer. I have not even seen any of the libs address Obama's answer.

They just attack Joe the plumber with all the usual zeal of their "thugocracy".

Sarah Palin ...
... is married to a member of the right wing extremist Alaska Independence Party, which advocates cecession from the United States. Palin herself has addressed this seditious organization on a number of occasions & even expressed her support for them. She has never adequately explained her connection with the AIP or condemned her husband for his membership.
In addition to Charles Keating, who had financial ties to McCain’s wife & father-in-law, McCain pals around with the likes of John Hagee, a radical evangelical hate monger who claimed that God sent Hurricane Katrina to punish New Orleans residents. Hagee enthusiastically endorsed McCain’s campaign, while McCain supporter, the turncoat Joe Lieberman, compared Hagee to Moses. Other right wing religious extremist in the McCain circle include child-abuser James Dobson & blood-diamond dealer Pat Robertson, who has had profitable business deals with Liberian dictator, Charles Taylor.
What we see in Senator McCain is a troublesome series of relationships with criminals, despots, far right religious extremists & terrorists, many of them holding extreme anti-American views. The American people have every right to be concerned about John McCain’s association with these potentially dangerous individuals. He needs to “come clean” about the rest of his ties to these & possibly other bad actors.
We’ll follow the ongoing scandal.


bobcatsmoosh
Obama said it very plainly, but I'll spell it out, if you have trouble understanding: it's time to start spreading the wealth around in this country instead of allowing a small group of fabulously wealthy plutocrats to accumulate ever great fortunes at the expense of ordinary, productive citizens.
Got it now?
When Obama's elected with a 60 vote majority in the Senate, you'll have to reconcile yourselves to the reality that the American people have endorsed his viewpoint.
So suck it up, big boy, the way decent liberals have had to suck up the repulsive immorality of the radical right for so long.
The times they are a-changing!
(But you can always come here to whine about it.)

Who Needs "Big Business"?
Yeah, take all those "rich" people's money and redistribute it "fairly" to the Chicago ghetto crackheads. No problem. Everything will be "fair" and I'll go work for them, instead of one of those big companies whose wages I use to pay my bills and taxes with now.

...makes sense to me. It'll be a nice "Change"...

Hell, I never worked for a poor man before.

...probably be quite productive...

Who Needs a Job?
Better yet...

Who needs a job?

With Obama as President, I'll just live off the money he seizes from the rich man to give me my share...


And by the way ...
... don't bore me with sophomoric taunts like "communist", "Marxist", "socialist", etc. I'm not any of those - not that any of you ignorant yokels would know the difference - but, even if I were, so what? It's a free country. You're a bunch of vulgar right wing crypto-fascists with the ethical sensibility of a bunch of hogs in rut and intelligence to match. If you have the right to spread your know-nothing political frothing on the Internet and attempt to infect others with it, then I have the same right to say and think what I wish. You can be sure that nothing you say bothers me in the least.
(To the small population of folks who post at townhall in good faith and in the spirit of honest discourse, please forgive this brief departure from civility. You know who you are and I hope you'll realize that the forgoing wasn't addressed to any of you. Just the trolls.)