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Friday, May 25, 2007
Lorie Byrd :: Townhall.com Columnist
Republicans should follow Elisabeth Hasselbeck's example
by Lorie Byrd
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Earlier this week on the The View, token conservative Elisabeth Hasselbeck spoke up so forcefully that Rosie O’Donnell resorted to playing the “big, fat lesbian” victim card. There are more than a few Republicans who should take a lesson from Hasselbeck.

I have been critical of Elisabeth Hasselbeck in the past for not making a strong enough case for conservatives on the daytime chat show. She signed onto a show that was not overly political in nature and it is understandable that she resisted for some time fully stepping into the role of speaking for conservatives. Well, that is certainly no longer the case. Hasselbeck has recently emerged as a strong conservative voice with not only what appears to be newfound passion, but she now appears to have spent some time educating herself about the issues, using that information to rebut some of the ridiculous claims made by O’Donnell. It wouldn’t kill Republicans to emulate her behavior.

On the Wednesday episode of The View the gloves finally came off and Hasselbeck stood up to O’Donnell for the following statement she made in the form of a rhetorical question on the show last week (transcript by Newsbusters.org:

O’DONNELL: I haven't -- I just want to say something. 655,000 Iraqi civilians are dead. Who are the terrorists?

HASSELBECK: Who are the terrorists?

O’DONNELL: 655,000 Iraqis -- I'm saying you have to look, we invaded --

HASSELBECK: Wait, who are you calling terrorists now? Americans?

O’DONNELL: I'm saying if you were in Iraq, and the other country, the United States, the richest in the world, invaded your country and killed 655,000 of your citizens, what would you call us?

This week the topic of O’Donnell’s insinuation that Americans are the terrorists came up again, but turned personal with O’Donnell stating her words had been twisted by those in the media. "Here's how it gets spun in the media. Rosie, big, fat lesbian, loud Rosie attacks innocent, pure Christian Elisabeth. And I'm not going to do it." She did continue the discussion with Hasselbeck, though, trying to change the subject to the personal. Hasselbeck did not let up in pressing O’Donnell to clarify what she meant by the original statement. The exchange became quite heated, continued through what should have been a commercial break, and the video of the exchange was replayed all over television and the internet for the following 24 hours.

It is a shame that it took Hasselbeck to ask O’Donnell to clarify the comment. I have previously written about how ABC has acted irresponsibly in letting O’Donnell spout ridiculous 9/11 conspiracy theories and other misleading and incorrect information to viewers of The View for quite a while now. Unfortunately, many in the media will not point out when untrue statements are made about Republicans. In fact, earlier in the same segment in which the now infamous showdown took place, co-host Joy Behar read a list of reasons President Bush should be impeached, including claiming that he “stole the election in 2000,” “killed the surplus with tax cuts” and “lied to us to get us into war.” It is up to conservatives to set the record straight any opportunity they get and regrettably most of them have been too silent for too long.

Myths are born when an untrue statement is repeated frequently enough, and loudly enough, that many come to believe the statement must be true because they have heard it said over and over again, usually with no refutation. For too long conservatives have allowed statements like Bush “stole the election” and “lied us into war” to be repeated with little if any opposition. When outrageous statements are first made it often seems unnecessary to bother refuting claims that are demonstrably untrue. That was the case with the kooky 9/11 “truther” claims that floated around the internet. The claims that the US government played a role in the 9/11 attacks were treated by most as something only tinfoil hat-wearing Bush haters could possibly believe and most (including me) chose not to dignify them by bothering to respond. Popular Mechanics debunked the various 9/11 conspiracy theories in book form, after all, and to most (again including me) it seemed unnecessary to bother pointing out something so obvious.

The truthers did not stop though. They continued to spread the 9/11 conspiracy theories and even enlisted the support of celebrities like Charlie Sheen and Rosie O’Donnell. What has been the result? Recent polls show that “Democrats in America are evenly divided on the question of whether George W. Bush knew about the 9/11 terrorist attacks in advance. Thirty-five percent of Democrats believe he did know, 39% say he did not know and 26% are not sure." The lesson we should learn from this is that any inaccurate claim that is made, regardless of how outrageous or seemingly unbelievable, must be vigorously refuted as loudly and frequently as possible, getting all available facts into the public arena so that such unfounded theories are not allowed to take hold in the first place. Conservatives cannot depend on those in the media to do this. Too often reporters simply give public figures a microphone to say anything they please, not offering any fact-checking whatsoever.

Rudy Giuliani gained headlines in the most recent GOP presidential debate for pouncing on and refuting Ron Paul’s claim that America invited the 9/11 attacks by “bombing Iraq for ten years.” These kinds of assertions should be vigorously debated, and when appropriate, discredited lest they gain unmerited credence.

In the foreword to the Popular Mechanics book, Debunking 9/11 Myths – Why conspiracy theories can’t stand up to the facts, John McCain wrote: “We cannot let these tales go unanswered. The 9/11 conspiracy movement exploits the public’s anger and sadness. It shakes Americans’ faith in their government at a time when that faith is already at an all-time low. It traffics in ugly, unfounded accusations of extraordinary evil against fellow Americans...it is imperative to confront them with the facts.”

His words are applicable not only to the 9/11 conspiracies, but to other issues. Many in the anti-war movement are now trying to exploit the public’s anger and sadness over the war by spreading distortions and outright lies. Similar tactics have been successful in the past in exploiting the public’s discontent over the economy and other issues. Enough. It is time Republicans spoke out more forcefully and followed the recent example of Elisabeth Hasselbeck who decided enough was enough.

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About The Author

Lorie Byrd is a Townhall.com columnist and blogs at Wizbang and at LorieByrd.com.

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malize
Thanks for the info! I stand corrected.

You may already have seen this but here it is anyway; Thomas Nast neatly dissected the 1864 Dem platform to expose what was wrong with it:

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/democratic-party-platform.htm

McClellan seems to have been an odd critter; how he made Captain, let alone General, is curious. He was the American military observer in the Crimean War (a Captain at the time) and the lesson he brought back from the real-life Light Brigade fiasco was one of extreme caution. When he was promoted to General he avoided contact with the enemy repeatedly until Lincoln removed him from command.



finally...
I’m continually amazed at how many people are siding with Rosie and Alicia in the face of such a class act as Elisabeth. If any of you are willing to sit day after day and be at best ostracized or at worst be verbally attacked by at least 3 other women, then by all means, go for it. It is so difficult in these times to stand up for what you believe when you go against the grain. We DO exist, we ARE NOT going to go gently into that good night without at least speaking up for what we believe in. To do less would be cowardly.

In case I need to explain “class act,” here are a few examples of what a class act does:
1 - After a friend says something irresponsible, she graciously offers up a platform to defend or explain herself. (even though she disagrees with her politics)
2 - After a guest snubs her publicly, she then resolves to “kill her with kindness.” (even though she disagrees with her politics)
3 - She shows up for work the next day with her head held high because she knows she was speaking up for her beliefs. (even though she disagrees with apparently most of the US)
4 - She does all of the above in front of the entire nation and is called stupid by most and she is vilified by many. (even though she knows that she is not in the majority)

I would not only call that classy, I would also call that courageous.

"Poor" Rosie
You know, I once enjoyed Rosie. I thought she was fun and harmless. I actually bought her Christmas CD years back...

And then she became political. What a disaster. And she's defended because she's no political spokeswoman, she's a comedienne (not comedian, but commedienne). But its like she doesn't think. Its like she can say whatever she wants and she will get a pass, and she does! Quite frankly, its good someone stood up to her, and really embarrassed her on TV.

She needed it. She needs more of it. She's a beast and is dangerous. She floats around spouting off more hate than the KKK, and because she's a comedian, she's excused. She's being funny, they say. What a joke she really is, and how true they speak.

Julie, Julie
"Older, more civilized societies are already moving away from religion based morality because it is very very flawed. It breeds hatred and intolorence and backwards public policy."

Erm ...

In the 20th Century, there was an experiment in moving away from religion towards radically atheistic socialist societies.

The Left tried Soviet Socialism, and the Right tried National Socialism.

Both collectivist models bred quite a lot of hatred, and backwards public policy.

Now, to take up your point, I agree that religions can be strange beasts and need to be tamed - hence the requirement for theology.

However, as Ann Coulter artfully described in her book "Godless - The Church of Liberalism" in the 21st Century, in this post-Soviet post-Nazi age there are plenty of secular ideologies that are also capable of causing a great deal of harm.

What you also ought to realise, is that many of these secular ideologues are quite happy to march alongside Islamists in their collective hatred of traditional western values, which have in part a Judeo-Christian heritage.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that you could press the case for secularism in a much more convincing manner if you first threw away your copy of the God Delusion and looked at religion with a more open mind.

Rather than separate the world into religious and non-religious, try separating the world out into nut-job and normal.

Scout
"You guys didn't like Rosie because she made you face reality about GWB and the war. Closing your eyes and plugging your ears isn't going to change reality. Rosie was the only voice on network TV who was speaking out on a daily basis."

Uhh, no.

For the Rosie haters

Elisabeth is one of the most rude, obnoxious hosts on the show. She behaves like a spoiled child when she can't get her way or when someone corrects her while she's spewing her GOP talking points. In one segment of the show her co-host Joy Behar talked about being in favor of the morning after pill and Elisabeth had a complete meltdown, where she began to cry and at the end of the segment she sat on Barbra Walters lap as Barbra tried to comfort her.

It seems your opinion of Rosie is based on the pro-war folks on Fox news, who find it easier to discuss a celebrities opinion than the ill-fated war that their incompetent, corrupt president has got us into. Yes, Rosie does have flaws, but it's her duty and her right as an American citizen to speak out against this corrupt administration and this un-just war.

The media is supposed to be the eyes, ears and voice of the American people, when it comes to questioning our government, instead they've become blind, deaf and mute. Imagine if they spent the same amount of time reporting about the deaths of our fallen soldiers, than they spend talking about Rosie, the American people would be more informed and maybe this ill-fated war would come to end.

The dispute between Rosie and Elisabeth wasn't about politics it was about friendship. Rosie assumed Elisabeth was her friend, therefore she would defend her against baseless attacks launched at her by Bush apologist on Fox. Little did Rosie know that Elisabeth was a backstabbing, opportunists.

Rosie left on her own terms and I respect her all the more for it. I never understood why the media never questioned why it's okay for Elisabeth to spew GOP talking points , but Rosie couldn't dispute them without being called a bully. Oh that's right this is the same media that feed the American people the WMD story and the Saddam, Bin Laden connection. The BBC reporters put American reporters to shame. Do you think by Rosie leaving things are going to change? Our troops are still going to be dying senselessly in a civil war. Bush will still be one of the most incompetent, corrupt Presidents America has ever known.


You guys didn't like Rosie because she made you face reality about GWB and the war. Closing your eyes and plugging your ears isn't going to change reality. Rosie was the only voice on network TV who was speaking out on a daily basis.

The politicians in Iraq must come together and work out their differences. They must decide which direction they would like "their" country to go in. It's amazing to me that so many people here don't have a problem with American troops policing a civil war. 'Dissent is the highest form of patriotism," Rosie and anyone else who speaks out against this corrupt, incompetent administration are true patriots.

Too many to follow up on.
But I think her point is dead on: conservatives need to fight more and harder.

Cad Man - WV Succession
The WV succession occurred after the Union secured those Federal leaning counties - and was directly the result of RE Lee's first field command in that section designed to prevent just such a defection. (which failed miserably due to various factors) WV was strategically important because the RR connecting the East and Midwest ran through this area.

Lincoln wanted to do the same in East Tennessee, and although a half hearted attempt was made to get Union forces down there to secure the North sympathetic section...it was doomed to failure for being untenable even if they would've arrived there . So in the end this region was the last section of Tennessee captured by the North and remained within the state.

Thus WV was not allowed to succeed without violence from Virginia, it is such a footnote to "more important" history that it is not mentioned.




Republicans already act like Elizabeth
The Republicans and conservatives already act like Elizabeth--the're the saintly self appointed rulers of morality who throw hissy fits when they don't get their way all the time. They have childish temper tantrums all over the media! Any what is it with these skinny blond conservative broads like Elizabeth Hasselbeck and Ann Coulter. Maybe it's the lack of food that makes them bat-crap nuts. Ladies this bleeding heart liberal has some nice advice--EAT SOMETHING ALREADY! YOU'LL FEEL BETTER AND EVERYONE WILL THANK YOU FOR IT!

malize
Interesting blog!

Those who blamed Lincoln for the war at the time apparently didn't know, or care, that the first shots were fired by the Confederacy. According to the book **Molon Labe!** Fort Sumter was almost out of provisions and would have had to be evacuated within a week but Beauregard became impatient. As for secession, nobody will ever know what the outcome might have been if there had been no shooting but West Virginia seceded from Virginia to stay with the Union and was allowed to go in peace.

WTC etc.
If I remember correctly, the structure of the WTC was protected with asbestos up to thr 30th floor; then the law was changed to ban the further use of it. Apparently lawmakers failed to understand that asbestos that is sealed in another material is harmless; if a board or other shape containing it is cut then special care must be taken to protect the worker(s) and to reseal the cut area to contain the asbestos. However, above that point a spray-on coating was applied instead that would protect the structure under ordinary circumstances. Might asbestos have been better? Probably. More time to escape perhaps.

Anti-war types need to remember that Iraq has the technical know-how to perform terrorist activities far from home; so does Iran. Also, those two countries, with their vast oil reserves, are capable of using the revenue derived from their oil to buy nuclear weapons from North Korea and missile technology from China. Do we really want the likes of al-Qaeda, Hezbollah and others of their ilk getting their hands on that kind of weaponry?

Our presence in Saudi Arabia (to protect the Saudis from an Iraq attack) has been a sore spot with the Islamists for a long time. The Iraq invasion and toppling of Saddam's government enabled us to pull our troops (at least most of them) out of Saudi Arabia -- and I am sure that they were very happy to leave. I spent six months in Japan (which was far better duty) during the 50s but was more than ready to leave when the time came; in fact, I have never had any desire to go back to Asia (again, more desirable) since then and you couldn't pay me enough to go anywhere in the Middle East. A former co-worker went to Pakistan on business for a few days some years ago and was so happy to get out of there that he kissed the ground when he arrived back home in the US.

Getting back to the View, my wife told me recently that she recalled that Joy supports gun owners' rights; that would be a plus for her.

Dems love those conspiracy theories
From:
Parallels in Time: Bush, Lincoln, GWOT & the American Civil War
http://malize.townhall.com/g/4a8e65b1-68fb-40a1-9c8e-7505cd7f7914

Cynically manipulating the public brings us to Conspiracy Theories. Conspiracy theories are nothing new either. In 1864 a newspaper owned by Democratic Presidential hopeful Goerge B. McClellan published an anonymous story supposedly of Republican origin. This Miscegenation Program hoax report was widely circulated by the Democratic press as a real, but only the copperheads swallowed it whole without question. However it did not really matter if anyone actually believed that initial hoax report, the Democrats continued to hammer away with the themes and terms of the hoax as if it was real in order to turn public opinion against the Republicans. (p. 789)


Hillary, Edwarsd, Obama, et al. should take note of Democratic Presidential hopeful and former General George B. McClellan, “If I am elected, I will recommend an immediate armistice…” (p. 771) Which was a fine election winning sentiment when his country was on the ropes and the war was not going well, “’…an armistice isbound to come during the year ’63, The rebs can’t be conquered by the present machinery.’ Into this crisis of confidence strode the copperheads with their program for peace without victory.”(p.590)…but immediately came back to bite McClellan with the final reversal of fortunes when Atlanta fell. Of course now a days we have the upcoming Tet Summer that will create the perception through the media that the war is hopeless…unless some grand “Atlanta” moment can be found in the Iraqi insurgency, modern warfare conditions would seem to favor the side which can most cynically manipulate the American public.

“War-weary rebel soldiers hoped fervently for McClellan and peace. ‘The enemy are exceedingly anxious to hold out until after the Presidential election…and that desertions [in the southern army] would be more frequent but they believe peace will be negotiated after the fall elections.’” (p. 803)


Just as the soldiers and generals of the Confederacy observed and took efforts to exploit the Peace Party, just as General Giap and the North Vietnamese did the same…just as it is today. If you profess to be a party that will stop fighting, the enemy will support you.

The Great Lesbian Conspiracy
25 Big Fat Lesbians brought down the towers by all visiting the same ladies room simultaneously on the 81st floor. The amount of excretement was too much for the building plumbing to bear. The methane gas generated blew the floor apart and the bile and stomach acid ate the steel beams causing the towers to collapse on themselves. Too bad those porkies didn't jump out the window in time.
Pretty good, huh? Oh and I am a big fat hetrosexual who wants a parade to show my wide pride.

no bs artist
Well, you are entitled to your opinion but if the View needs Rosie O'Piglet to survive then it deserves to die a merciful death. I see that "Jack the Dripper" (thanks, Rush!) Kevorkian is due to leave prison so perhaps he can preside over its demise. Being retired, I sometimes would watch that program with my wife on our bedroom TV but lost all interest in a hurry because the show is so idiotic. I did watch that episode with my wife (she taped it) and I agree with Ms. Byrd.

Go, Elisabeth!

Good article, John
I remember the 1964 campaign in which Barry Goldwater was undermined by Eastern Republicans who had the "rule or ruin" mentality. BG would probably not have won anyway (he would have been our third President in two years) but Eastern GOP'ers made it certain. Ron Paul will certainly need to watch his back.

George W. Bush Is GOP’s Bill Clinton

I recommend everyone read this article. Do you think Ron Paul is the only hope for the GOP in 08?

by Chuck Baldwin

Those of you who heard my radio program back in 2001 know that I predicted then that George W. Bush would do to the Republican Party much the same thing that Bill Clinton did to the Democratic Party. However, I must confess, I could not then realize the magnitude of that prediction.

Most of us remember that it was the election of Bill Clinton in 1992 that was the impetus for the Republican revolution of 1994. If you recall, a congressional election sweep of the magnitude of 1994 had not been seen in the previous seventy years. It is a truism that Bill Clinton helped to elect more Republicans than the Republican National Committee could ever dream about. Now, the same thing is happening with George W. Bush. In spades!

Amazingly, the two issues that I predicated my prediction on have materialized exactly as I said they would. I warned my audience in 2001 that George W. Bush had every intention of invading Iraq, and once there, did not plan to leave, but would probably seek to expand the war’s theatre. I also predicted that Bush would seek to facilitate illegal immigration and create the working group to create a hemispheric government.

Read the rest of this entry »

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/george-w-bush-is-gops-bill-clinton


Elizabeth's Halo
Boy, that golden halo around Elizabeth's saintly head must have a ton of tarnish around it by now. Ratings for the View are now going to sink faster than the Titanic. Rosie kept Viewers enthralled because she was so unpredictable and so outspoken--no one knew what she was going to say or do next, thus provoking many a heated watercooler discussion. By contrast, Elizabeth's saint act has become too dull and predictable for words. Exactly what are her qualifications to be a talking head anyhow? Starving herself down to skin and bones on Survivor? I guess Elizabeth stabbing Rosie in the back was just a form of petty form of revenge for her being kicked off the Island. The Tribe has Spoken. I hope when little Miss Saintly goes on maternity leave, she's not asked to come back.

Black Dog
The point is you lost both houses under Clinton!The same is true under Bush for the GOP!

tnmccoy
"Please! Ron Paul seems to have an admirable record, but how does that qualify him for the Presidency? " Face reality, Ron Paul will not be elected to any national office. He won't even be in the top five for the Republican primaries."

Please yourself. Qualify??? Well, I don't know, he served in the military, he's a 10 term congressman, he serves on several prominent House Committees. He is a staunch supporter of the Founders' intent of the Constitution. Has more honor, integrity and love of country than all the front-runners put together. But most of all, he's qualified because he has shown by his actions, over years and years of voting, that he will restore our Constitution and rule of law in this country. A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for liberty.
http://www.house.gov/paul/bio.shtml

What makes you think Giuliani, or McCain or Romney are "qualified"??? Oh please. Just one big pile of big government, leftist, reprobate.

"Face reality, Ron Paul will not be elected to any national office. He won't even be in the top five for the Republican primaries."

I hate to tell you, but he IS in a national office, right now. Top five? I'll betcha money. In fact, he is polling at the top of the 2nd tier, right now. And that's considering they AREN'T EVEN INCLUDING HIM IN A LOT OF THE STATE POLLS AT ALL and that is what is used to derive the final number.

Let's look at it... the President of the United States is taking time within his last press conference to take a couple of swipes at Ron Paul. LOL. He's got 'em worried and I LOVE IT.

Ron Paul is the only true conservative running. His principles are what conservatism used to be all about...

- limited constitutional government
- personal privacy
- personal responsibility
- strong national defense
- fiscally responsible government
- individual liberty

Watch out boys.... we aim to take our country BACK. :-)

Ron Paul for President '08 -- "HOPE FOR AMERICA"
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/
http://www.youtube.com/RonPaul2008dotcom
http://www.myspace.com/ronpaul2008
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html

His new book on foreign policy:
http://www.mises.org/store/Foreign-Policy-of-Freedom-A-P359C0.aspx?AFID=2

"There is one and only one voice in Congress for a foreign policy of freedom, and it belongs to Ron Paul, who has stood alone for freedom for many years. Ron is the seemingly impossible: a voice for reason and truth in a den of thieves." -- the Mises Institute

RESTORE THE CONSTITUTION and RULE OF LAW!!!

Neo-CONNED! by Congressman Ron Paul
What is a real a Conservative?

Please watch this video and comment.

Click Here

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/neo-conned-by-congressman-ron-paul


Liberty et al
Please! Ron Paul seems to have an admirable record, but how does that qualify him for the Presidency? Face reality, Ron Paul will not be elected to any national office. He won't even be in the top five for the Republican primaries.

Treat him kindly and support his efforts, but support someone electable for the Presidency. We don't need a small number of votes siphoned off by the second and third tier of candidates.

Besides, what does Ron Paul's record [as you present it] have to do with the subject of this essay?

no BS artist
I didn't want her to leave. She was the best shinning public example of how out of their minds the liberals are becoming.

I wanted Elisabeth to stand up for herself because Rosie is a bully. I want all conservatives to stand up for themselves when the liberals spew lies about issues or conservatives because if those lies are not refuted and get repeated enough people believe it.

I just hope they find someone who will fill the void but not be so hurt as to quit when she is challenged by those who have a differing opinion.

Stop Smirking Conservatives
Ok, Ok, mission accomplished--Rosie has left the building! We can all rest easy now that the real threat to truth, justice, and the American way, Rosie O'Donnell, won't be back to upset the apple cart on the View any more. Feeling Better????? Whew! And to think I once thought Osama Bin Laden and Al Queda were our real enemies. You conservatives can stop smirking and laughing, but stop and think--who are you going to bash now???? (Happy now, Elizabeth?)

Have A Great Weekend
Friends, I really do enjoy all our interesting conversations here on TH, with the exceptiong of the occational nutbar liberal that sneaks in to cause disorder. This weekend is important because all the Senators will be home on break and we need to keep talking to them. I have written all 100 senators, some twice. Trust me when I say I really don't think this amnesty bill can get out of the senate, call me crazy but lets just wait till they vote on it. If it does make it out, I don't really expect it to pass the House.

GWB is not up for reelection, thank merciful God in heaven, and no one from his administration is running. People hate Hillary (who is fil floping) because she is so polarizing. I think Fred will jump in sometime in June, we are close. And Ron Paul, no offense, just hasn't the resources, name recognition, and a forigne policy outside the 1790's that will make him our canidate.The Dems cracked on the war issue, dispite all there big talk.

So let not your hearts be troubled. The bad amnesty bill, war funding, the next election, and so on, I'm not worried. Maybe I should be and maybe I'm crazy, but I just have this feeling that everything is going to work out. I could be wrong. In any case have a great Memorial Day weekend and please remember to honor all those who fight for our freedom.

onceamarine

I'm glad you said that. So tell me what do we do about the republicrats who are leading this country to socialism? How are we different from the Germans or Venezuelians? Heck, we're even worse because we know what freedom is (was) and we knowing elect to give it away for "security."

George W. Bush Is GOP’s Bill Clinton

I recommend everyone read this article. Do you think Ron Paul is the only hope for the GOP in 08?

by Chuck Baldwin

Those of you who heard my radio program back in 2001 know that I predicted then that George W. Bush would do to the Republican Party much the same thing that Bill Clinton did to the Democratic Party. However, I must confess, I could not then realize the magnitude of that prediction.

Most of us remember that it was the election of Bill Clinton in 1992 that was the impetus for the Republican revolution of 1994. If you recall, a congressional election sweep of the magnitude of 1994 had not been seen in the previous seventy years. It is a truism that Bill Clinton helped to elect more Republicans than the Republican National Committee could ever dream about. Now, the same thing is happening with George W. Bush. In spades!

Amazingly, the two issues that I predicated my prediction on have materialized exactly as I said they would. I warned my audience in 2001 that George W. Bush had every intention of invading Iraq, and once there, did not plan to leave, but would probably seek to expand the war’s theatre. I also predicted that Bush would seek to facilitate illegal immigration and create the working group to create a hemispheric government.

Read the rest of this entry »

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/george-w-bush-is-gops-bill-clinton


Coop's scoop
Coop, hopefully one of these days you will realize that just because something is posted on the internet - for instance, wtc7.net - it doesn't necessarily mean it is true, or has anymore credibility than anything else posted on the internet. You have to check the facts - as BrianR was trying to explain to you. He is not a conspiracy theory wacko, he is an engineer - facts, not theory - need to study up on the difference.

Good Riddance, Rosie, you were on the shelf WAY past your expiration date. The container was starting to swell - usually a good indication that the contents have spoiled.

Nightowl
"We're not spreading democracy---we're spreading FREEDOM."

Well, you'd better tell that to the Bush administration, because they're the ones who keep talking about spreading democracy.

"That seems to be one of the thousand points of light that liberals/leftists/elitists/socialists just don't get."

So, you support Daddy Bush's talk about creating a New World Order, do you? I ask, because he spoke of a "thousand points of light". You know, he didn't coin the term New World Order. He was just one in a long line of traitors to our country and our Constitution who wanted nothing less than for our country's sovereignty to be handed over to one world government.

Do you get THAT?

Dr. Paul, true conservative and patriot


In his famed Neoconned speech a few years ago for example, Paul outlined the fact that the self-proclaimed neo-conservatives are not conservative and there is nothing new about the disgraceful philosophy to which they adhere. Their philosophy of endless war and big government really finds its roots in Machiavelli’s obsession with the “greatness of the state” along with Trotsky’s belief in “permanent revolution.”

Paul has warned of a new world order based on this philosophy many times.

Paul sternly warned of a push towards an authoritarian global government:

"Who do we have at the UN? Bolton, the arch Neo-Con warmonger and actually what they've done is taken the Neo-Con position on intervening on the internal affairs of other nations and regime change and they've institutionalized that in the United Nations, now the UN is in the business of regime change."

"I think the goal is one world government - we have not only the U.N. - we have the WTO, the IMF, the World Bank, then we have all the subsidiaries like NAFTA and hemispheric governments, highways coming in."

Most recently at a campaign stop in Austin Paul repeated this warning:

Ron Paul responded, "The first President Bush said the New World Order was in tune-- and that's what they were working for. The U.N. is part of that government. They're working right now very significantly towards a North American Union. That's why there's a lot of people in Washington right now who don't care too much about our borders. They have a philosophical belief that national sovereignty is not important. It's also the reason I've made the very strong suggestion the U.S. need not be in the U.N. for national security reasons."

Taken in this context, Paul's warnings on foreign policy become a lot clearer. The Cabal that has seized control of America and subverted the constitutional values of the country by consistently launching preemptive military activity abroad, overtly and covertly, has an agenda to seize control of all nations across the globe in the same manner.

Though Rudy Guiliani and an audience of Fox news goons seemingly found it "absurd" that people do not like being waged war upon, both the vaunted 9/11 Commission Report and the CIA admit that American. foreign policy has endangered the U.S.

"The 9-11 Commission report detailed how bin Laden had, in 1996, issued "his self-styled fatwa calling on Muslims to drive American soldiers out of Saudi Arabia" and identified that declaration and another in 1998 as part of "a long series" of statements objecting to U.S. military interventions in his native Saudi Arabia in particular and the Middle East in general. Statements from bin Laden and those associated with him prior to 9-11 consistently expressed anger with the U.S. military presence on the Arabian Peninsula, U.S. aggression against the Iraqi people and U.S. support of Israel," reported the Nation.

Michael Scheuer, the former head of the Bin Laden unit at the CIA, backed up Ron Paul and asserted that it is absurd to believe that the "war on terror" has anything to do with a preservation of freedom or the way of life of the American people.

He stated that it is solely fueled by a consistent aggressive American foreign policy in the middle east and points out that there is no Presidential candidate other than Ron Paul who has even addressed the issue.

He then outlined six primers that he believes have led the US and the world into the precarious position it now faces:

-The ability to control the price of oil
-Unqualified support for Israel
-Presence on the Arabian Peninsula
-Military presence in Muslim countries
-Support for governments that are viewed across the world as oppressing Muslims - Russia in Chechnya, india in Kashmir
-Fifty year plus support of Arab police states and Tyrannies

It is clear however that the Bush Administration and the Pentagon know exactly what the reaction and fallout will be to and from their actions and is all too willing to use this to its own advantage to further its foreign agenda, rather than wasting their time analysing where it has come from.








Marching in Iraq



Gratefull American,

I think the Million Man Conservative March was allready done, in Iraq. maybe you can hold it in Iran?

Liberty
We're not spreading democracy---we're spreading FREEDOM.
That seems to be one of the thousand points of light that liberals/leftists/elitists/socialists just don't get.

Liberty
Maybe you better explain the EXACT differences between a conservative and a neoconservative.

Jeffislouie
That is an excellent post. You covered many valid points!
No liberal will read it and agree. They don't believe facts. They remind me of Hilers Youth Movement. Completely indoctrinated!!

Grateful American
Oh BS! I most certainly am NOT an isolationist. Do you understand the difference between isolationism and non-interventionism? Apparently not. Non-interventionists, like our FOUNDING FATHERS and historically, the vast majority of traditional conservatives, believe that we should not interfere with the governments of other nations and certainly not intertwine our affairs. Rather, we should mind our own business, be well-wishers to all and TRADE with everyone. Note: REAL free trade; not this managed-trade BS we have now.

If we are attacked, or there is an imminent threat, we should fight with EVERYTHING WE HAVE and win quickly and decisively! After we have done so, we should return home and resume minding our own bueiness.

We should not use our military to police the world, "spread democracy", meddle in other countries' affairs and certainly never to enforce UN sanctions. Our military should be used for one thing only... to provide for OUR national defense.

Grateful American
Perhaps we need to determine WHAT we want to be heard on.

Today, there appears to be a wide divergence in what "conservatives" believe. Traditional conservatism is quite different than neoconservatism.

LIBERTY
You're also an isolationist. "No man is an island." Most Americans understand that isolationism is not only immoral, but downright dangerous; therefore, Ron Paul's policies are distateful to many Americans.

Lorie Byrd
Lorie,

If you will watch these 2 YouTube videos, I think you will understand why I, as a conservative, did much what you suggested that we conservatives do... STAND UP, but unfortunately it was you who I was standing up against.

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY-KlYg9UME&mode=related&search=
Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ht1bo5UhOs

ENOUGH ALREADY!
Lorie is right! It is time for conservatives to find their voice as well as a spine. I'm all for a COSERVATIVE MILLION MAN MARCH on D.C. and I too will be there if someone organizes it. We need a forum for us to come together and be heard.

blustrmom/grndmomx2
grandma:
"Elizabeth is led around by the neocons???"

Liberty:
Yes, I think she is. She has been "Hannitized" and he is most certainly a supporter of neocon policies.

grandma:
"That could be a bit better than having your entire party bought, sold, and managed by the likes of george soros. "

Liberty:
How did George Soros get into this conversation? Ah... you must think I'm a liberal. So sorry, no prize. I'm about as conservative as you can get, which by the way has nothing whatsoever to do with neoconservatism.

Grandma:
"So, I guess sticking up to the likes of rosie (I think the article was primarily about them, yes??) is bad somehow? Righteous indignation only goes one way I guess. Look, the woman had had enough of her and spoke her mind. I think that's still allowed in this country for the time being."

Liberty:
Sure it is. I personally don't think either one of them are bad people. I don't agree with EITHER of their political views. So, please don't put Elisabeth out there as speaking for conservatives, because she most certainly DOES NOT. She may very well speak for neocons, but as I have already mentioned, that is entirely different from conservatism.

grandma:
"Maybe the likes of mediamatters will attempt to have her fired."

Liberty:
Kinda like how Hannity, O'Reilly, Malkin and others have misquoted O'Donnell left and right over the past several months and have even called for her to be shot, strung up and hit like a pinata and oh, also fired? Like that?

And no, I don't agree with her politics. That however does not change the facts of what the NEOCON media did.

beez

"When are these lunatics going to just admit that Ron Paul is a contrarian who has made his career being a thorn in just about everyone's side?"

Thorn???? So, he should just go along with the other sellouts to BIG government socialism that are walking around calling themselves conservative. Is that what you're saying he should do? Just shut up and go along??? Well, you see, there's not much chance of that, because Ron Paul isn't a sellout and happens to love this country and the form of government our Founders' created for us. Congressman Paul is a Constitutionalist and has a 100 percent conservative rating from the conservative index. Perhaps you should be asking a very different question... why don't the other people walking around calling themselves "conservative" vote like he does?

"And, when did he become a doctor? Generally, the only people I know who go about putting "Dr." in front of their names are MDs (who generally deserve the title) or PhDs that are racked with self-esteem issues and have the need to feel important."

Well, maybe because HE IS AN M.D. He is an OBGYN and has delivered thousands of babies.

"Ron Paul is as much a nutcase as Howard Dean. Just because he's on the libertarian side doesn't make him any more sane!"

Ron Paul is presently on his TENTH TERM IN CONGRESS as a REPUBLICAN. He votes 100 percent of the time with the Constitution. In other words, if it isn't in the Constitution, he votes NO. Too bad more don't do the same. You know, I remember a time when conservatives stood for small government and individual liberty. Not anymore apparently.

Do you call yourself a conservative? You see, I am wondering, because I am curious as to why you have a problem with a man with the following record:

Brief Overview of Congressman Paul’s Record
He has never voted to raise taxes.
He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
He has never taken a government-paid junket.
He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.

He voted against the Patriot Act.
He voted against regulating the Internet.
He voted against the Iraq war.

He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.
He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.

Congressman Paul introduces numerous pieces of substantive legislation each year, probably more than any single member of Congress.

....and who stands for every conservative principle that has ever existed. Things like:

- limited constitutional government
- personal privacy
- personal responsibility
- strong national defense
- fiscally responsible government
- individual liberty
- a foreign policy of non-intervention



CC
"I wish she'd been able to ask where O'Donnell gets her number of 650,000 Iraquis that WE'VE apparently killed. I heard Bill O'Reilly say it's about 60,000 (number provided by the UN, I believe), and it seems that most of the killings are being committed by Iraquis."


From Lancet.

"We estimate that, as a consequence of the coalition invasion of March 18, 2003, about 655 000 Iraqis have died above the number that would be expected in a non-conflict situation, which is equivalent to about 2·5% of the population in the study area. About 601 000 of these excess deaths were due to violent causes."

http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles/im...3606694919.pdf

murders in Iraq


65,000 to 650,000 innnocent humans depending on which survey you look at. 65,000 is enough though, don't you think?

Is it right to continue to murder all these people?

good night
peace
Shawn

BrianR
I think coop was talking about the report from Lancet. I know it has been challenged.

"We estimate that, as a consequence of the coalition
invasion of March 18, 2003, about 655 000 Iraqis have died above the number that would be expected in a non-conflictsituation, which is equivalent to about 2·5% of the population in the study area. About 601 000 of these excess deaths were due to violent causes."

http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles/images/journals/lancet/s0140673606694919.pdf

Drew: Hah
Thanks, man.

Yeah, to Lefties, there's no life between LA and NYC except one pocket in Chicago.




Leftifornia
That makes me laugh BrainR, my brother and sister-in-law lived in Leftifornia and now they live in Tennessee. I myself live in Missouri and well most liberals consider our states fly overs. But then again I don't give liberals that much credit, I bet they couldn't find Missouri on a map! We really need to retake California and Pennsylvania and a few other states and return them to the rest of America. Keep up the good work in a tough place.

Drew: LOL
Unfortunately, I AM one of the conservatives trapped in a Blue state: Leftifornia, to be exact.

I consider myself a spy deep behind enemy lines.


Why Are Socialists Here???
My friends and fellow conservatives I must ask, why are liberals and socialists (same thing really) on this pro-American site? I mean they have moveon.org, ABC.com, CNN, MSMBC, NBC, and the list goes on. I guess it goes back to the main goal of socialism, infect everything and destroy all voices of decent where ever they crop up. Alas Babylon.

BrianR, as a chemist and knowing a little something about hydrocarbons (this includes jet feul) I completely agree with you. So do all my engineering friends. People want to make the US out to be this evil thing when we offer the most freedom of any place on earth. But it is just like evil men to try to destroy that which is good. If you want my personal oppinion on the matter, the only thing bad and/or destructive about America is the blue states, and no offense to conservatives trapped in them.

One final question I have is, where were all the anti-war folks during the incident in Haiti back in 93 and especially in Serbia in 1998? How about the bombing of that aspirin factor? I mean war is war right? I didn't see any protests then.

coop
Illegal war? Let's see, Saddam Hussein was in constant violation of the terms of his original surrender, firing on our patrolling aircraft, and refusing to let the weapons inspectors do the job they were mandated to do under his surrender. We'll overlook the woodchippers and all for now.

Sorry, you're wrong there.

We've killed 600,000 Iraqis? You've been watching too much Rosie O'Dummo.




coop
A question becomes "stupid" when it's asked again after it's been fully answered.

You earned that one.


illegal war


For all of our American citizens out there, realize this truth, the occupation of Iraq is illegal. It was a pre-emptive strike on a sovereign country that did not attack us. It was sold to the American people based on lies.

Our armed forces, directed by US policy, has killed, depending on who you believe, anywhere between 60,000 to 600,000 innocent woman, children and men. We are responsible for this and as taxpayers the blood is on our hands. We are supporting the murder of these people every day. Why are we killing these people?

stop the killing.


word


wow Brian. good talking to you anyways...

Particulary since, in reviewing it,
after all my explanations, he's still asking the SAME STUPID QUESTIONS!


Hound, onceamarine, clyde
Thanks, guys. I did my best.

Judging by coop's latest missive, it obviously wasn't enough, but I simply don't have the time to start at Structural 101 and go through all four years of engineering school in the limited space afforded here.

Nor do I care enough.

Horse to water.


Tower 7 and the pentagon attack


look fellas, I never said Bush did it. Bush is not controlling his decisions. Although he says he is the decider, the policy is created and directed by others. Blaming Bush for incompetence and therefore saying he could not of pulled off 9/11 is not the point. this is NOT a republican versus democrat thing. do you guys realize we created Al Qaeda in 1979 while helping Afghanistan in its war against Russia.

Do you realize that the US supports, creates terrorist groups around the world. This is public knowledge. Saying parts of the US govt and intelligence community is not capable of pulling off 9/11 due to incompetence because of Bush, yet can agree that Al Qaeda successful cordinated this attack is ridiculous.

Official Story- How did Al Qaeda hijack 4 airplanes with box cutters, take full control of these airplanes for 40 minutes each, 1 hour 50 minutes total, hijacked and somehow avoid the best air defense in the world. Additionally, these hijaced planes flew over New York and Washington without ANY fighter jet interept. C'mon now.

I have still not gotten a solid answer from two points; 1. How did World Trade Center Tower 7 collapse at free fall speed, symmetrically from sporadic fires throughout the building. you can see the video here - http://www.wtc7.net. #2. how did this 757 fly horizontally, 5 to 10 feet, above the ground without hitting the ground and stricking the Pentagon between the first and second floor. Why such the risky manuever after dropping from 10,000 feet.

watch the pentagon strike video here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAaP4Z3zls8

the strike happens about 20 seconds after the vid starts. Watch this video, it is incredible and released by the Pentagon and government. do you see the small device flying only feet above the ground, horizontally, with the smoke trail? after watching this video, do you sincerely believe what your seeing is a 757 flying only feet above the ground?

good luck
Shawn


Confronting foolish ideas
4 Do not answer fools according to their folly, or you will be a fool yourself.
5 Answer fools according to their folly, or they will be wise in their own eyes. Proverbs 26:4-5

This apparent contradiction merely highlights the wise person's dilemma. If you argue with a fool, you will soon seem to be foolish as well. But if you don't contradict folly, the folly-mongers will become "wise in their own eyes." Proverbs presents the dilemma, but I believe that by putting v5 second, the writer of Provers was saying that in the long run it is more dangerous to ignore fools than to refute them. So sometimes there is nothing but to hold your nose and plunge into a debate on fools' turf, lest their folly becomes accepted by the non-discerning public.

Byrd
Good column,it seems to be academic at this time due to the fact that Ms. O'Donnell has quit her job. What continues to amaze me is the fact these moronic TV execs continue to hire this shining jewel of collossal ignorance. BTW Brian R graet job trying to explain to coop about what actually happens in fire such as those that brought the towers down. Seeing similar things on a much smaller scale, such as double-bottom fuel tanker trucks here in Mi.that used to crash with amazing frequency in the early 70's, yes,a fuel fire CAN melt about anything it wants. Something coop, or these others who believe seem to forget,is the enormous impact on such a structure as the force of an approx. 700,000# aircraft at over 500 knots, and the resulting damage from that.

Devils Paintbrush
Most of the people in Germany just wanted to raise a family. Leaders, that's where it all starts.

We didn't neeed to kill all the people in or near Tripoli to get it over with.

It's the leaders, don't you get it??

Does anyone think all the people in Venezuela have the same attitude as Chavez??

Does anyone think everyone in Iran has the same attitude as their present president??

Leaders are the ones, and when they have their non-democratic regulated people under their non-democratic thumbs and some fire power, well you tell me whats going to happen to anyone they set their eye on..

Sorry COOP
Brian, if he still doesn't get it, just let it go. Some people, and I don't want to think badly of a guy called coop, just don't have the cool to deal with it. Let it go.

BrianR
It is hard enough to explain engineering to a non-technical person. It is even harder to explain it to a lib who is hell bent on finding any little thing to embarrass the president. Of course, it is "YOUR president, not mine".

For someone to compare the explosion at the World Trade Center to a normal building fire is amazing. It is comparing apples and oranges. Steel melts at 2800 degrees Fahrenheit. The flame temperature of wood is 900 degrees, and the flame temperature for most plastic products is 2000 degrees. The flame temperature of kerosene, which is the key component of jet fuel, is 5400 degrees.

In a nutshell, a normal fire involving plastic and wooden products will not result in temperatures high enough to melt steel. On the other hand, jet fuel will melt steel like a torch on an ice cube. The steel beams don't just bend gradually, but instead, drop like a rock, just like you see the World Trade Center. And, when one complete floor drops with such sudden impact, the floor below it has no chance. It is like the difference between laying down a 50-pound weight gently on the floor and dropping it from 20 feet. It will go right through the floor.

Comprendré, coop?

The exchange between Hasslebeck
and Rosie further proves that arguing with a liberal is like arguing with someone with a severe case of ADD,as you refute each point that they are attempting to make, mid-stride they will wildly (and loudly, I might add!)change subjects on you.

mrteachersir

I visited a museum that explained the conflict, I think it was San Diego. During the initial phase one of our ships ran aground and the crew was captured. Another US ship burned the one that was stuck so the enemy could not get it. If I remember correctly the crew was ransomed. Anyway that does not solve the here and now. We can't kill every Muslim so what is the answer? Perpetual war or trying to live together? I still believe the majority of people in this world just want to raise a family and live in peace. Or maybe I'm just a naive libertarian. Anyway thanks for the input, I didn't know about the ambassador's reply but I'm not surprised.

Shells: Thanks, man
Yeah, it's frustrating, but illuminating, too, because other people are also reading these posts. They can see the "arguments" being used to support the conspiracists, and the rational counter-arguement. It may sway some people, or at least give them ammo the next time they're (or you're) in a conversation with a "Bush did it" type.


Coop
I've explained it patiently, and this is my last effort on the topic.

You: "Tower 7 was not a highway... how can you call the collapse of the highway as 'very analogous'"

In engineering terms, principles, structural matters, seismic requirements, etc., they are pretty much the same. That's just a plain fact of the world and science of engineering. There are not different scientific or engineering principles from bridges to buildings.

You either accept it or you don't. That's up to you. The science is the science. It just doesn't get any simpler or plainer than that.

Do you argue about whether or not the Earth rotates around the sun? Same deal. It's science, plain and simple.


Hound Dog
You are correct, and you said it all, more than I had the strentgh to. You were spot on target.

I think I have O.D.'d enough on liberal nonsense that I'm letting it get to me.

THANKS EDDRED
NOT ONLY IS YOUR POST FASCINATING AND BRILLIANT, BUT I REALLY LOVE READING MORONIC POSTS IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS!
ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE POSTED THREE TIMES AND RAMBLE INCOHERENTLY FROM ONE THING TO ANOTHER!
GREAT WORK!
HOW IS THE GED COMING ALONG?
ALMOST FINISHED?

coop...
At least you've gotten past the whole fire melting steel nonsense.
No one said that the fire turned the steel into liquid magma, but steel loses most of it's tensile strength when exposed to heat far lower than the heat produced by burning jet fuel.
But it is entirely possible that things didn't happen at 'free fall speed', but rather at 'near free fall speed'.
Remember, the WTC was unique in that the floor relied on the exterior for support (it had no columns), which likely added to the speed and minimized the delay of the fall.
Besides, basic physics would make it pretty clear that at a certain point, the mass plus the speed would increase, eventually hitting 'free fall speed' regardless of the fact that it was hitting new floors.
This is a pretty silly argument to have anyway, as none of it matters.
What is the alternative theory BESIDES the one that makes sense to 90% of the world (i'm being generous to the CT'ers, who believe that there are far more of them than there really are)?
A set of explosions that no one noticed?
Seriously, do you REALLY think our government is efficient enough to execute a devious, meticulous plan like this and not efficient enough to make every single conspiracy theorist dissapear?
Simply put, no nerd on the internet is going to find the truth, if it is indeed different than what most of us believe.
So why are we focusing on this nonsense?
Aliens may exist, but I don't think area 51 is the reason we don't know about it.
Kennedy was assasinated - I don't care by who anymore.
The World Trade Center was struck by two planes piloted by al-qaeda terrorists. So was the Pentagon.
A smaller group like al-qaeda is perfectly positioned to carry out an attack like this. They are too small to have to go to comittee over everything and not quite big enough so that those involved might 'leak' the information.
Why waste time considering what *might* have happend, especially since the basis for this type of thinking is severe distrust of the government and an assumption that our nations government wants to kill its own people?
How silly is that?
I remember getting involved in this discussion after the kooks produced that silly docu-movie....
'Loose Change'.
Want to know how I know there was no conspiracy that day?
Dylan Avery isn't dead.
Think about that for a minute.
If the government really wanted to cover this up, why not kill him before his movie got out and became a popular work of fiction?
'nuff said, or do I need to say more?

BWSEZ - your post of 3:49 PM

A wise man would have responded to my post AFTER they had learned what the Bible says about a "fool".

I can't help it if you don't take the time to do do your homework. The libraries have a number of versions of God's Word so I know you won't have any difficulty in finding the information.

To get you started, here's what Psalms 14:1 says: The fool says in his heart, "There is no God". They are corrupt, their deeds are vile, there is no one who does good.

I am not saying anything new here. The Psalms began to be compiled about 3,500 years ago. It was instructive then, it is instructive now. It is the Almighty God that you have your argument with.

Good luck with that!

The acceptance of grace would be one who has appropriated the work of Jesus Christ on the cross that He provided. But, for that, there would be no hope for mankind.

Civility is bestowing the kindness of Christ upon another. I didn't see that in Julie's post and indicated to her as such. It is not wrong to point out the errors of others.

Shells
"I believe they just simply hate Bush so much that any answer, other than the truth, that can link Bush to that day gives them comfort and joy."

I think it is more than just hating Bush, although he is the current target. It is hating everything that is uniquely America. Reading the posts from coop is like listening to a recording of Rosie. Behind all that ranting is someone hiding secret anti-America thoughts. I hate capitalism. Everything that is wrong with the world is America's fault. The terrorists are fighting back the only way they can against an imperialistic America. America is single-handedly destroying the planet. We deserved 9/11. I hate Christianity, in particularly the idea that homosexuality is a sin. This last one really irks them.

In short, they hate this country and dream that America will become France one day. While they are spewing their hate for this country, they are seating in front of their computer in their 3-bedroom air-conditioned house, driving around in their SUV, and just enjoying all the benefits of a capitalistic society.

Elisabeth's Timing
I don't think that she delayed this long because she lacked courage or conviction. I think it was a case of she finally decided that her only alternative, given what a bully Rosie is, was to abandon what passes in the normal context as "courteous" in the face of moonbat ravings that she was subjected to.

Silent Majority
I think the term "Republican" should be left out of the mix in this discussion simply for the fact that November 2006 was about Conservatism and not about Iraq. Had the Silent Majority resurrected its Hasselbeckian rage against the Donkey Party for the distortion of what was being alleged instead of teaching lessons to Republican Neo-Cons (which really needed to be done anyway), things wouldn't really be that much different since the Donks don't have the guts to stab our service people in the backs for fear of the Real America rising up and the Elephant wannabes don't have the conviction that the Silent Majority knows what the right course of action in Iraq is and we are doing it the best our leader knows how. But that's not saying much.

America, beware. You've watched the circus elephant mundanely performing just what was required of it for years. And I think it's time to name her "Lizzie" and follow Elizabeth's example. Ever seen the cute litttle circus pachyderm finally get her fill of all the BS and disrespect and get on the rampage? I think we quiet, unassuming Conservatives need to let our collective voices be heard and I don't mean on the phone with Rush, Sean, Michael, Bill, et. al. We need to join the circus, people, and acting like really care where this country is heading. Not with platitudes and politics but with sincere noisy forceful conviction. Kind of like a ticked off Lizzie, right?

BrianR
I have to commend you on your patience actually speaking to Coop as an adult, because frankly, I would've let emotion stand in my way.

There's a lot of things that upset me whenever it concerns liberalism, but when I actually hear conspiracy theorists, like Coop, it takes every ounce of strentgh I have not to want to punch them in the neck.

My parents, my entire extended family, including my perhaps future mother-in-law believe in the 911 conspiracy BS. IMHO, I believe they just simply hate Bush so much that any answer, other than the truth, that can link Bush to that day gives them comfort and joy.

I think it's a sick and twisted way for those types to mourn and go through the stages of a grieving process.



cc
...well said but ABC & Walters will never do it. Don't you understand that they see themselves as logical and mainstream? Walters a liberal? Behar a liberal? We all know the truth, they don't. In fact, they probably think it is unbalanced, favoring the right because there is one conservative and 3 normal, mainstream people. Kind of like the old "Capitol Gang" show. One wacko on the right-Bob Novak. Three "normal" people like Al Hunt-nice hair, Mark Shields, and Margaret Carlson.

Byrd's Word
Well, there are many things to say here.

Lorie Byrd's essay has a serious point, and that is to ask why Republicans don't have the backbone to consistently stand up against the Liberals. The Rosie v Elizabeth data is simply used as an example. Rosie is Rosie. We all know who/what she is, and she's not about to change no matter what we have to say.

I wish you posters would stay on the point of the essay instead of patting each other on the back and having personal conversations. Get a chat room for that. I want to read your thoughts on the topic in the essay.

I note that all the links shown by Liberals as proof of something or other, are to Liberal or left-leaning sites---certainly not reliable sources for anything substantive.

Modern Liberals are never going to change. They will form conspiracy theories about virtually any tragedy that occurs and lies about George Bush and the Republicans about anything they stand for or try to do: Bush lied and said Iraq was the center of the 9/11 attack; Bush blew up the New York buildings on 9/11; Bush killed 600,000 plus women and children in Iraq; Bush has us in Iraq for the oil; Bush has us in Iraq to sweeten the coffers of Halliburton; Bush has us in Iraq because we're racist; the only reason there are terrorists is because Bush invaded Iraq; the terrorists will leave us alone if Bush leaves Iraq; the silent invasion of our Country from all ethnic types of illegal aliens is a-ok---we'll just have them become citizens and vote Democrat; Bush stole the 2000 election; Republicans always cheat at the polls [that's a rich one, considering the accusers are usually the cheaters]; Republicans ignore the accepted Liberal facts of global warming; etcetera.

I met one Liberal who rants regularly that America was settled because people were fleeing the Catholics; the Catholics murdered millions of women in the middle ages; the Bible supports evil and violence; the Koran is peaceful; Republicans are evil---and he would never answer a single question about his radical and erroneous beliefs [including what he personally believed, or what was the evidence of what he said] because they were "just head-games" on my part, "trick questions", or Rush Limbaugh nonsense. So, I just shook my head in amazement and sadness as I was ushering him out of my apartment.

So in connection with the topic, one must ask why the Republicans can't seem to get it all together and stand up against: the invasion of the illegals; the phony global warming panic; the move to end the Bush tax breaks; the ridiculous efforts to raise SS taxes to save the system; the Presidential I-think-I-am, Nancy Pelosi; asinine pc-ism, and the constant and loud Democrat defeatism.

A couple of sound bites here and there do not constitute backbone. I want some more cojones out of my elected representatives. My political sadness is that I'm represented by Rosa DeLauro and Chris Dodd. Please help me!

edred
When your posting is all in capitals it's considered shouting. It's also obnoxious and cumbersome, and most people don't bother to read it.

Please, everyone, email Barbara Walters at ABC and ask her to put another conservative woman on the show for balance. Two conservatives, two liberals. Then the OTHER half of the country would watch, and her ratings would skyrocket. She, like all the mainstream media, panders to the left, and neglects 150 million or so people. Good business sense would be to appeal to the entire country.

There are many smart, attractive, informed, witty, tough and outspoken women on the right, both white and minorities, who could make that show a real success. Who needs O'Donnell?

Ellison - your post of 10:27 AM

How come you are leaving out Al "bullhorn" Sharpton and Jesse "adulterer" Jackson out of your All-Star line-up?

Who Was the Adult?
One of the things I noticed in the exchange is that there was one adult,and one petulant child in the argument. And Rosie was NOT the adult.

you da man



right on Ken. that does allot.

peace

Coop
You told Brian, "good talking to you and I wish you a good life."

Personally, I'd be satisfied if you would just GET a life.

coop's right
I just saw 11 passengers from flight 77 drive by in a minivan with Elvis!!

eddred
Wow! Thanks for proving my point-and so quickly! However, you may want to brush up on your first grade grammar lessons.

tower 7 was not a highway


Brian

how can you call the collapse of the highway as 'very analogous'? I just provided you with a link of huge skyscrapers that didn't collapse from fire after buring for up to 17 hours. you are wanting to compare the highway instead, why? Building 7 is the first building to collapse due to fire. You have said you believe fire caused the collapse of tower 7. How fire could of destroyed the resistance to the free fall movement of this building is impossible. It has NEVER happenned before. buildings do not drop symmettrically and at free fall speed via fire. Can yo provide me with the link/ story of one other building in history that this has happenned to?

lastly, do you have any pictures or video of these fires you speak of that brought down tower 7. I can provide you with tons of pics and vids that show only a few small fires.

good talking to you and I wish you a good life.

Shawn

Yes, I am saying the
fire caused the collapse.

Exactly right.


Cookie
Ding Dong the B*tch is gone. And Hasselbeck was the coward? Rosie can't stand a little debate, someone countering her arguments, and quits! And Hasselbeck is the coward? Liberals like O'Donnell live in their Liberal enclaves surrounded by like-minded thinkers. And they accuse Bush of being surrounded by "Yes Men?" Then when a differing opinion is offered, it is like their heads explode.

I agree with Ken. I have a friend who would spout off and I would challenge his facts and selective outrage. Now he no longer rants in front of me because he has very little in the way of facts on his side.

And beating the dead horse, but this is why liberals hate Fox so much. For years they could turn on their TVs and most major newspapers and magazines and have their opinions parroted with no debate. Now, those of us on the right have a voice, and these liberals go running, screaming and crying like the proverbial bully who was finally stood up to.

Ding Dong The Witch is Gone
Thanks be to God that Rosie is off the air. I never watch the View but just knowing that she was lurking on the next channel was kindof creepy. Thank you Elisabeth for being a conservative voice in a socialist filled world. Now who will take Rosie's place? Maybe they'll take Larry the Cable Guy's idea and replace her with a storage shed!

Coop
Again, I'll direct you to another recent example: the collapse a couple of weeks ago of the bridge in Oakland due to the fire resulting from the wreck of a fuel tanker. It is VERY analogous. The fire destroyed the steel elements of the bridge, causing its directly downward collapse. Bridges are built to at least the same performance category as skyscrapers.

Yes, many buildings do burn without collapsing. Every event is unique. It is absolutely possible to have a fire that doesn't reach temps that will melt the steel. Or it may not compromise enough elements to cause a system failure.

However, don't forget the nature of the initiating event: a flying fuel bomb. The power that can be unleashed in a fuel/air explosion can exceed that of military ordinance. The aerosol nature is a force mutiplier of the potential energy of the fuel itself. It's not just a burn; it's a cataclysmic explosive event, followed by a firestorm condition.


Marine Dad and DevilsPaintbrush
They did come for us. Throughout the 1700s, teh Barbary pirates, housed in Tripoli and other North African states, routinely attacked Christian ships and sold the sailors into slavery. In fact, they were known to sail up the Irish coast and raid Irish coastal towns!! Thomas Jefferson had a chance to confront the Tripoli ambassador to France while in France before the Constitution was ratified. In his words:

"The Ambassador answered us that it was founded on the Laws of the Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners."

When he became President in 1800, he authorized the dispatch of the USS Constitution in 1801 (in response to the Bashaw of Tripoli's declaration of war--for failing to pay tribute). With the help of US Marines and Lieutenant Stephan Decatur, the tiny US forces were able to take the coastal town of Derna. Fighting stopped in 1805: we were victorious against radical Muslims 200 years ago. MarineDad, I would think that you of all people would understand where the line "to the shores of Tripoli" in the Marine anthem came from.

Tower 7


dude, your telling me Tower 7 came down from fire?

Tower 7 continued

Brian

do you think it was strange that fire has never caused a steel building to collapse yet Tower 7 did?


Many buildings have been ravaged by fire, burning anywhere from 6 to 17 hours or more without the building collapsing. Tower 7 was the first. here is the link to the stories of large skyscrapers with huge fires that never collapsed..

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html

Coop
I don't believe in personal attacks, and don't use them except in defense.

It's boring and childish.


Dude! Coop!
I just explained it!

Did I take the time to write all that for nothing?


Tower 7


hey Brian

if Tower 7 was hit by debris on one side from the towers collapse and also contained sporadic fires, small or large, in different areas of the building. how do you explain the building coming straight down in a neat pile?

here's the video if you haven't seen it- http://www.wtc7.net .

I appreciate you discussing the evidence without the personal attack!

Shawn

Coop, I'll explain this as simply as
possible.

First, hold a three-foot piece of string vertically so the bottom is just touching the floor. Let go. It'll fall straight down into a little pile.

Buildings do the same thing. The structural elements do not work independantly, they work as a system. Let's say there are 6 vertical beams supporting a structure. They are also linked into a system laterally with horizontal structural elements. When Beam 1 fails, you don't get a corner of the building falling down, that load is transferred laterally to the rest of the members. This countinues as each member fails until you exceed the SYSTEM LOAD LIMIT, at which point the entire structure fails, as fast as a fraction of a second, and just like when you let go of the string it falls straight down. That's the whole idea behind controlled demolition. The only thing they're controlling is the direction of the debris outflow, not the direction of the fall of the building itself. That's why the debris from the Twin Towers went all over the place, including damaging other buildings; it wasn't controlled.

If you look closely at the films of the event, the fall also isn't perfectly symmetrical. It crumbles like a calving iceberg. But overall, it does exactly as engineering principles dictate it would under those conditions and events.

Did you expect it to fall sideways? If so, what lateral force would cause that? because that's the only thing that could cause such behaviour in such a massive structure: some immense lateral force.


Sonny
Why would you call for grace and civility in the same post that you personnally attack someone?
Would that same Bible call for an appology here?
Just asking.
Joining the Lib's tactics makes me like them.

ROSIE HAS QUIT!!!
Rosie wasn't supposed to leave "The View" for another three weeks. After her "exchange" with Elizabeth Hasselbeck, though, she's decided to leave now. Good riddance!

Like most liberals, Rosie dishes it out, but she obviously can't take it. I agree with Lorie Byrd. If more conservatives would stand up to them, more liberals would back down.

Blow back
Well, (as President RR would say)
Good point and I will start by correcting mis-information and half-truths in this article.
I am not a Ron Paul supporter, but he did not say only what you quote.
He did say correctly that this was one of the many reasons Islamofacist used to incite themselves and recruite suicide terrotist.
To deny that this is true is to but on blinders and drink the koolaide.


julie - your post of 10:22 AM

Nothing new in your screed this morning, julie. Evidently you are new to TH because we have all heard what you have said on this thread before.

Try saying something new. It would be refreshing coming from a one-track, one dimensional fool. (If you aren't sure what a fool is, it can be located in the Bible.)

Once there was grace and civility in America. Guess what, since the Liberals have been shooting their mouths off for the last 40 years, they are no where to be found.

How sad.

MarineDad

I appreciate your reply. Sure, I might be wrong as to the motives of the Islamists but I still believe non-interventionism is the best policy our country can take. What we are doing now sure isn't working so well.
As to your punch analogy, the big question is why someone feels the need to punch you in the face. Typically, unless they are crazy, people don't go around punching people in the face for no reason. And I seriously doubt all those Muslims are crazy. I believe they are frustrated because they've been abused for years by their own governments. Governments propped up by ours in the name of "nation interests." Also known as money. Take away their reason to punch us and their recruits will dry up. Unfortunately Bush's little escapade in Iraq has insured decades of very angry people.

Look at it this way. People either love the Yankees or hate them. There is usually no middle ground. Why? Because people believe, for right or wrong, that the Yankees have unlimited resources and come across as arrogant because of it. Consequently, many people love it when they are brought down a peg. That's how America comes across to the rest of the world. Why not just be the Devil Rays? They do their thing the best they can and no one hates them for it. And as a Yankee fan myself I can tell you the Yanks always have a devil of a time against the D-Rays.
Do I hate the D-rays for that? Nope, I respect them because they stand up to the big guy and give their all. Anyway that's my hair-brained reasoning, sorry but my tin-foil hat is a little tight today.

Coop
"it seems like you and Ken feel anyone that questions an event a conspiracy theorist and nut job, c'mon. have you ever questionned something?"

When people advance highly improbable theories and disregard facts, I call them conspiracy theorists and nut jobs.

P.S. You qualify for both labels.

Patriots question 9/11


crap, here it is, check this out http://www.patriotsquestion911.com

rosie
rosie is a big fat liberal,she would be a pig even if she was heterosexual,a pig is a pig

members question the evidence of 9.11


gave you the link with a period at the end, here is the correct address of hundreds of physicists, scientists, military officials, politicians and survivors that question the official story of 9.11.

good luck
Shawn

tower 7


really brian, the buildings did exactly what you thought they would do? when everyone else watching, incluiding engineers and physcicists did not think this would happen. I ask you again, how did the floors collapse on top of eachother to cause a pancake, yet still the buildings fell at free fall speed?

sincerely, what is your explanation of how Tower 7 came straight down?

and you keep saying this is re-writting the laws physcics and science, when there are hundreds of physcicists and scientists that agree the buildings collapsed from controlled demolition. you can find there quotes here- http://www.partriotsquestion911.com.

it seems like you and Ken feel anyone that questions an event a conspiracy theorist and nut job, c'mon. have you ever questionned something?

coop

I'll simplify
As a civil engineer having seen the event, that building did exactly what I expected it would do the moment I saw the impact of the second airplane.


BrianR
"You don't find the rewriting of the laws of science and physics hilarious?"

I would find conspiracy theorists hilarious - if they weren't so dangerous.

Go to
...thereligionofpeace.com to see a very graphic and upsetting photo of what the members of "the religion of peace" did to a 12 year old boy. These members, of course, are "mothers and fathers", according to O'Donnell, so we must "not fear them".

Coop: I'm a civil engineer
I watched the second tower go down on TV when it happened, as well as in replays and have read the Popular Mecahnics piece as well as professional analyses available within the industry (ASCE and Construction Specification Institute).

The conspiracy theory is absolutely preposterous. I'm not going to bother going into great technical detail as it's been done so often. The tower collpase is absolutely consistent with the steel structural members melting due to the presence of a firestorm event taking place inside the structure, initiated by an aerosol/fuel explosive event to be expected in that kind of impact from essentially a flying fuel bomb. That would initiate the ignition of all other combustible materials within the space, fed by the inrush of air which would create a "bellows" condition (firestorm), leading to greatly increased thermal conditions, melting the structural steel, cascading to the building collapsing vertically, or as you called it "pancaking".

That's what happened, like it or not.


controlled demolition


Brian R

what up. for real man, did you read my comment. I did not say fire could not melt steel. I said even if we go with the official story and the popular mechanics article, the floors collapsed on top of eachother. would you call this resistance. how can we have resistance and still have the buildings collapse at free fall speed?

NIST does not have a good explanation of how Tower 7 collapsed. If steel melted in tower 7 and/or the debris of tower 1 & 2 caused significant damage and/or the falling of 1&2 caused an earthquake that would collapse buildings in the area, HOW did this building, #7, come STRAIGHT down, symmetrically, and at free fall speed, 7-8 seconds. have you seen the video, the building comes straight down...

peace
Shawn

Well done
...Elizabeth!

She has not been allowed to speak more than three words in the past without the O'Donnell person shouting her down, and this time she had simply had enough. She's always unfairly outnumbered(of course), but she let them know she's got quite a backbone.

I wish she'd been able to ask where O'Donnell gets her number of 650,000 Iraquis that WE'VE apparently killed. I heard Bill O'Reilly say it's about 60,000 (number provided by the UN, I believe), and it seems that most of the killings are being committed by Iraquis.

yeah, but Ken
You don't find the rewriting of the laws of science and physics hilarious?

Man, I sure do!!


Well done
...Elizabeth!

She has not been allowed to speak more than three words in the past without the O'Donnell person shouting her down, and this time she had simply had enough. She's always unfairly outnumbered(of course), but she let them know she's got quite a backbone.

I wish she'd been able to ask where O'Donnell gets her number of 650,000 Iraquis that WE'VE apparently killed. I heard Bill O'Reilly say it's about 60,000 (number provided by the UN, I believe), and it seems that most of the killings are being committed by Iraquis.

Coop, you've convinced me...
You've convinced me that you can find ANYTHING on the Internet. If you looked hard enough, you could probably even find "evidence" that the earth is flat.

I'm not going to argue the point with you, because it's pointless to argue with a conspiracy theorist.

9/11 was an inside job


Moonbat Exterminator

The Patriot Act was signed October 26, 2001, 45 days after 9/11... check ur facts mi amigo...

coop - 9/11 was an inside job
We all have the same arguments before. I just have one comment for you and Julie. WHAT does this have to do with this article???!!!

Yo, coop
I suppose that bridge in Oakland that collapsed a couple of weeks ago when the fuel truck exploded was also some government/Bush/Halliburton plot, too?

Yeah, I know, fire can't melt steel.

I guess all those foundries turning raw ore into iron and steel have had it wrong for all those centuries. Thank God ole Rosie the Rivethead is around to set science straight.

mm, hmmm....

Here's another of your gems: "How did this 757 descend from 10,000 feet, fly over the highway, 300 more feet while skimming the ground. WOW. the plane did not hit the ground whatsoever and did not leave burn marks on the law."

Funny, but that happens every time an airplane lands. Amazing but true! The pilots miraculously and solely by blind luck usually manage to put that big, heavy airplane right where they want it to go, the runway! A miracle!




Drew
"Oh and one more thing, I am also a scientist, a chemist to be precise. But I am also well read on biology, geology, physics, and astronomy."

You may be a scientist, but Rosie is much smarter than you. She made a brilliant observation that fire cannot melt steel. Therefore, the World Trade Center buildings must have been brought down by a modern day Sampson, George Bush.

Later, Rosie made another billiant discovery. After making a series of outrageous remarks on The View, pressure from program sponsors led CBS to put her on the hot seat. Rosie immediately discovered that fire melts lard, too.

9/11 was an inside job


continued personal attacks. no need if you have a sound counter arguement.

RLA Texas, you had a emotional response of having met people who went through the 9/11 tragedy. This does not help you make a solid conclusion of what hit the pentagon. when you drove by the area a few days later and saw the big hole, that was after the ceiling collapsed, on film, 1/2 hour later. the first hole was 16 feet by 24 feet?

simply, here is evidence I have not heard a good answer on, maybe you can help...

1) The towers did not collapse from weakenned steel. Have you watched the video? If the towers buckled and fell onto eachother, how then did all three buildings, 1,2 & 7, come STRAIGHT down at free fall speed, under 10 seconds for tower 1 & 2. 7-8 seconds for tower 7. It is not possible to propose a 'pancake theory' of floors falling on top of eachother and still be a free fall speed. how can you have resistance and also a vacuum?

With Tower 7, please watch this video http://www.wtc7.net (videos in upper right corner), if you have ever seen a controlled demolition, this is it. watch it, seriously, the top penthouse in the middle of the ceiling starts first, then the building comes STRAIGHT down, symettrically, and in its own foot print.

Has anyone seen the slides the pentagon released of the suppossed 757 hitting the building? The slides show a device/ plane/ missle flying 5 to 10 feet above the ground, parallel to the ground. How did this 757 descend from 10,000 feet, fly over the highway, 300 more feet while skimming the ground. WOW. the plane did not hit the ground whatsoever and did not leave burn marks on the law. The plane hit the pentagon between the first and second floor. A 757 hitting a builing, horizontally, 5 to 10 feet above the ground. Does that seem a little odd to anyone? This is ALL official story.

There have been hundreds of large plane crashes. what you see are plane parts, fire, seats, etc. The NTSB has the capability of remodeling the wreckage inside a hanger to see what happenned to the plane. This did not happen on 9/11. Strangely, the plane that hit the pentagon and the plane in Pennsylvania both dissappeared with no large identifiable plane wreckage. watch the videos of the flight in Pennsylvania, there is no fire, no plane wreckage, no bodies and a small 14 foot by 6 foot ditch. the official story tells us the plane dissappeared nose first into this ditch. Have we not dug up the plane. how deep did it go.

Lastly, for the guy who said it tooks months or years to adopt the patriot act is mistaken, the Patriot Act was signed into law by Bush on October 26, 2001. How did this extensive, far reaching, well thought out Act be introduced only 45 days after September 11th? was it done quickly after the attacks or ready for a terrorist attack? you tell me?

Everything I have said above is taken from the offical story, there is no need to stray from that. There are serious unanswered questions from the evidence of September 11th. Investigate this for yourself.

Notice I did not attack anyone or tie my emotions to this comment. Can you argue the evidence without attacking the person? see add hominem.

Some have also asked, if I am affected by attaching my intellectual capabilities to Rosie. Believe me there are hundreds if not thousands of well respected, intellectually gifted, sane, proffessors, military officials, politicians, survivors, 9/11 commissioners and patriots who search for the truth. you can find a large context of these people who question 9/11 here- http://www.partriotsquestion911.com . ITS NOT ABOUT ROSIE...

lastly, the one who proposed we are not all the same due to a philosophical basis, including Marxism is missing my point. WE ARE ALL HUMAN. we are the same as all humans on this planet. we are awake in the same moment and share the same conciousness. like a butterfly flapping its wings, we are all dependent and affecting eachother. we all share peace and love and the makeup of the universe within us. don't let the mainstream media divide us into Red and Blue.

namaste
Shawn

Yes Julie dear,
isn't atheism a good thing? I am quite sure that the millions of people murdered by "nice" atheists such as Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin etc.. would vehemently disagree with you on that were they able to.
All you have to do is reflect on the previous "100 years" and see the glories bestowed upon mankind courtesy of atheism.

apoplectic
"You guys should lay off Rosie, she's probably a bigger man than most of you!!"

I KNOW she is a bigger man than I am. I only weight 265.

Seems the loons are out tonight
You can't argue with someone who just doesn't believe facts. These are people who will deride those who believe in God or intelligent design b/c it's not "fact based," while ignoring all facts here. It's simply amazing.

Our government killed 3000 of its citizens, yet hasn't wiped out people like Fat Pig O'Donnell and all the other losers spouting off theories in their moms' basements? Yeah right.

Why don't you care that illegal aliens (copy mexicans) murder NINE THOUSAND Americans every year? I don't even want to mention how many of our women are raped by these people "who just want a better life..."

You make me sick.

Shells, I would have loved to have
heard Elisabeth tell Rosie two things:
1) That Rosie's "poor me" (big mouthed, fat, lesbian) remark was factually true and not just Rosie's opinion on how the media would describe their verbal sparring, and 2)That Rosie is NOT her friend, they just happen to both be employed by ABC television for the same show.

Hassellbeck vs. O'Donnell
Congratulations to Elizabeth Hassellbeck to finally having the courage to stand up to the loudmouth liar, Rosie O'Donnell, but she didn't go nearly far enough. When Rosie mentioned the 650,000 dead figure, a sharp debater would have pointed out that that figure is disputed by the United Nations (who puts the total Iraqi death toll at 140,000), and the fact that most of those deaths were from Iraqis killing one another (sectarian violence) or from foreign fighters (from Iran and Syria) killing Iraqis, and that only a small fraction of the Iraqis were killed by Americans.

Hassellbeck let herself get led astray emotionally by reacting to Rosie's "poor little Elizabeth" remark rather than debating the facts.

But since lots of people do watch the View, and can get led astray by Rosie's loud lies, conservatives need to get a strong female debater on that show to challenge Rosie and get the facts out, and Hassellbeck is unfortunately too weak. I suggest Laura Ingraham, Michelle Malkin, Mona Charen, or Karen Hughes to get on that show and put Rosie in her place--the dumping ground for fat, ignorant bullies and liars!

Barbara Olson would have also done a wonderful job, but unfortunately she was killed by the real terrorists who perpetrated the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon.

Julie
I would first like to say that Julie you are a prime example of what socialism really is. It is not, in fact, we who are the ignorant, hate filled, lunitics, you are. Time and again it has been proven that socialism does not work, not in Eastern Europe, not in the USSR, not in Cuba, not in China (who had to adopt free markets to get where they are today). Socialists advocate government control, and in so it must destroy all voices that disagree. It and you hate people of faith and conservative principles. You are the intolarent hate filled people who are constantly at war with all who do not bend to your self indulgent will.

Let me bring you up to date on a few things. The rest of the "educated" world, people in Canada, Japan, Germany, France, Australia, and Britain, have been electing conservative reformer goverments because they are realizing that socialism and big government do not work. Our founders knew best, that free man and free women in a free society will prosper and the government should be a very small part of our lives.

As for faith, all Western moralism is based on the Judao-Christian ethic. I am a Christian myself and I do not believe that my faith makes me a bad person. I and others like me do however, stand up for what we believe in which is moral absolutes. But that does not fit into your "loose" world view. It is your kind that is hateful and reactionary to mine. You are intolarent of anyone that does not share your views, because you believe that you are your own god and that you are so enlightened taht you are smarter than the rest of us. I think you and other socialists are the real bigots.

Oh and one more thing, I am also a scientist, a chemist to be precise. But I am also well read on biology, geology, physics, and astronomy. So don't tell me anything about science. For me science and faith go together quite well and your statements about my faith tells me you actual know nothing about Christianity let alone real science, only what the socialists have told you.

So I will take you up on that bet, lets wait and see in 100 years who is the victor and who is smarter. I'll tell you this, the only way your side can win is throw hate and fear and intolerance. And that is exactly the strategy you and other socialists will continue to follow.

Denny

And the British did burn our cities. HMMM...

Denny

They were pirates who happened to be Muslims. They were motivated by greed not religion. That is a major difference and has nothing to do with my point. They could have sailed here and burned our cities if they wanted. Why didn't they? Because there was no profit in it for them.

Also, the British did the same thing, thus precipitating the war of 1812. So don't talk to me of history. It's one of my passions.