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Friday, January 19, 2007
Linda Chavez :: Townhall.com Columnist
Collateral Damage in the Immigration War
by Linda Chavez
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Imagine you've just given a year and a half of your life to serving your country in Iraq and come home to find that your pregnant wife and your toddler daughter have been forced to leave the United States and now the government won't let them back in.

You sit at home waiting, but no one can give you answers when or if they will be allowed to return. You wait five months, long enough for your new baby to be born in a foreign country. But still, no one can give you answers.

That is what Aaron Thorsted of Salt Lake City, Utah, goes through every day. His story aired on KSL-TV there this week.

Why is the government preventing Johana Thorsted and their children from returning to the U.S.? Is she on some terror watch list? Does she have ties to radical organizations? Has she committed some heinous act that makes her a danger to our country?

No. Like thousands of others who have grown up here and know no other life but ours, Johana's parents forced her to come to the U.S. from Guatemala illegally when she was a child. Aaron Thorsted knew her status when he asked her to marry him. He told KSL that Johana worried that he would reject her when he found out. But love doesn't require a "green card," and so Aaron promised her they would fix her problem. When Aaron was sent to Iraq, however, the process slowed down, since immigration officials are wary of Americans who want to sponsor spouses who aren't actually living under the same roof.

Johana returned to Guatemala in what should have been the final step in adjusting her status. The couple expected she would have approval by the time Aaron came home from his tour in Iraq. But they are still waiting. And in December, their second child was born. This complicates matters because the child is not automatically an American citizen and now, too, must get permission to come to the U.S.

The Thorsteds' disrupted lives are the consequence of Congress' failure to resolve the dilemma of what to do with 12.5 million illegal aliens living here. But their personal drama is not the only consequence. Another story illustrates a different problem, one that has the potential to affect all of us.

In a front-page article, The Wall Street Journal reported this week on what happened after immigration officials raided a Georgia chicken processing plant last fall, hauling off 120 workers, with hundreds of other illegal aliens voluntarily leaving the area. The plant did what many anti-immigration groups say is the solution to becoming dependent on immigrant and illegal alien labor: It raised wages by more than a dollar an hour.

But the company still couldn't attract enough employees, so it also sent buses to pick up American workers from nearby towns and set up dormitories for those who wanted to stay on site. The company nonetheless could only hire a fraction of the workers it needed, and new workers were far from ideal.

The company says that the workforce has turned over three times since the raid. Worse, production has plummeted. The immigrant workers produced an average of 80 pallets of poultry a day per six-person assembly line; the new workers produced only 45 pallets with 15 persons on the line.

The company is still short-handed by 300 people, so it is recruiting Laotian Hmong immigrants from Minnesota and Wisconsin and busing in felons on parole. In any case, with more expensive, less productive workers, the company will have to pass on its costs to consumers -- or go out of business.

Magnify this problem by the thousands and you can see the impact on the U.S. economy.

Immigration restrictionists may think it is fine and dandy to keep Aaron Thorsted's wife and children out of the country because Johana's parents broke the law. And they say they're willing to pay more for food so long as it deprives illegal aliens of jobs. But are they willing to pay companies' actual costs, which in the Georgia case more than quadrupled? And would they rather these jobs simply disappear altogether, striking devastating blows to many local economies?

I doubt most Americans think this is a good bargain. But Congress has yet to wake up to the realities.

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About The Author

Linda Chavez is chairman of the Center for Equal Opportunity and author of Betrayal: How Union Bosses Shake Down Their Members and Corrupt American Politics .

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©Creators Syndicate

 
Popular Articles By Chavez

sob stories
The open borders proponents can find all kinds of reasons to not enforce the immigration laws. The only way we keep our republic intact is by the social contract we call the Constitution. We all agree that EVERYONE follows the same rules. Those here illegally have ignored our "path to citizenship", more generous than any other country. If they really want to be Americans they need to exit and apply like EVERYONE ELSE.

When weeds are left unattended...
...they'll take over the garden. You solve the problem by pulling them up by their roots.

more apologia for lawbreaking
Linda tells an artful sad story, but willfully and disingenuously evades the key point-- ILLEGALS chose to be here ILLEGALLY. America is disappearing before our eyes because the Conspiracy Of Evil is aiding and abeting their invasion. The MM and the other PC types try to dodge talking about the myriad concomitant problems-- rampant illegitimacy, soaring crime, drug, and gang rates, decimated schools and barrio-blighted communities, pandemic dropout rates, diseases we had eliminated, overwhelmed and bankrupted social service delivery systems, dodged taxes, willful dissimilation, and so on ad nauseam.

Still sound like "Workers that America must have to do those jobs Americans won't do", folks?! The hotelier who milks them simply puts more $ in HIS pocket-- YOU save NOTHING! Taxpayers and citizens are simply paying for Mexico's welfare state and subsidizing miscreant employers! Why are the relative handful of law-breaking employers truly different from other employers... let them pay a necessary wage and pass on the cost!

EACH undereducated, indigent immigrant will use $100,000 more in taxes for government services than s/he ever pays per Heritage and the National Academy of Sciences. Heritage estimates 60-100 million new such people over the next 20 years if they shove Kennedy-Mcquisling ilk Scamnesty down our throats-- at $100,000 per just in the tax shortfall alone. An advanced economy CANNOT benefit by allowing the inflow of the indigent undereducated-- they simply beget snowballing poverty and entitlement government.

Same old....
Again with immigration restrictionists...

Linda, Linda, Linda

“The Thorsteds' disrupted lives are the consequence of Congress' failure to resolve the dilemma of what to do with 12.5 million illegal aliens living here. But their personal drama is not the only consequence. Another story illustrates a different problem, one that has the potential to affect all of us. “

Once again, put a personal face on the "ILLEGAL" problem, then ‘blame the congress’ who after all is picking on people of non-American status by not making laws to accommodate them.

But she goes on that is not the whole problem.

“In a front-page article, The Wall Street Journal reported this week on what happened after immigration officials raided a Georgia chicken processing plant last fall, hauling off 120 workers, with hundreds of other illegal aliens voluntarily leaving the area. The plant did what many anti-immigration groups say is the solution to becoming dependent on immigrant and illegal alien labor: It raised wages by more than a dollar an hour.”

Yes Linda, has once again reminded me how glad I am now she is not Secretary of Labor, a truly scary thought now. Use the illegal-ized circumstances as a wedge (against business) to argue it. This should be an example what happens when people start improvising their way around a law. In another time maybe someone would be insulted hearing someone say, “lets go down to main street and pick up a few Mexican day laborers.” Now not only is it condoned, it is actually excused by some.

And now Linda, some illegals (undocumented) might look for some relief after weather related interruptions in California harvest. Anything more “we” can do? Once again, there, the farmers getting hurt will probably be guilt slimed and used to argue the issues.

I can maginify someothing else by … no, millions. Its called a problem (illegal not undocumented) and not a solution.




Linda is a Socialist, at best.
So some company has been breaking Federal Law for an undefined period, probably at least several years, and now it is our fault? My family is going to starve because of rising chicken costs? I think last Thanksgiving we paid under 60 cents a pound for turkey.

The company has to pay a wage high enough to attract workers? What a shock! Should we give up our society and heritage because we are not Mexicans and are unwilling to work for minimum wages? I thought the Conservative line was that minimum wage was for first time wage earners, like teenagers?

A war veteran lets his immigrant wife leave the country without a confirmed immigration status and we are to blame?

My wife missed the last months of her mother's life and the funeral because she could not leave the country until she had her Green Card. So she does not regret it to this day?

Ms. Chavez please take your illegal alien pandering and put it under your mattress. You can bring it back in a decade when the illegals are running the welfare system and razing America down to the level they came from.

In my opinion you are a traitor to the American experience and heritage. Ellis Island is not for you, only opening the floodgates is good enough. That is disgusting as it lowers the standards for everyone, and their expectations. America will become another among the lowest common denominators, filled with cheap labor but no middle class.

It is a sin to deny a great future for democracy in the world by turning America into a Socialist State. Which at the same time ruins the futures of billions of people around the developing world. Without a beacon to model themselves after many more will fall to dictators and perhaps even the Islamic purge.

Put a sock into it or at least be up front about your loyalty to your race, above all others and before your Country.

Crazy making, Linda
All there is to say is that coming into this country illegally is still illegal. That is the "issue".
Now, Congress is supposed to fix it for the illegals.

Well, how about Congress paying attention to the people already here?

How about a sob story regarding to the 25 Americans killed each day by illegals? Now, that is truly a sad and disgusting story. Does anybody in Congress care about that?

likely linda
Give them a few years, as Linda probably supports, to have prevailing wages. How concerned will they be then over markets or costs or poor business owners. Its a lie, they aren't.

misplaced emotionalism
Why do they have to couch it in insincere emotions?. Insincere because they risk life, bodily harm, slave trade and blackmarket traders to come here. Then we are supposed to pity it "emotionally" when incovenienced by upholding the the law ?

heartless
I can't believe the heartless ranting on this column. Linda makes a good case for how these cases need some individual attention. We force people like this woman to leave our country: She has no country. She's married to one of our soldiers. There are others like her. To make matters worse, there are people who are not Mexican that came to America, paid all the fees, filled out all the forms, tried to do everything legal at great expense and hassle and some of them are being deported. I know such a couple that may end up being deported: They are white and the government is not being helpful. I don't feel sorry for the workers at the chicken plant or the plant itself: They created the mess, but people who really want to stay here should be given every chance.

immigration
Oh please spare us citizens the bleeding heart stories of the plight of the illegals. If your girl Johana is illegal, she has to obey the law. Thank God we are showing some semblance of enforcing the law regardless of who the perpertrator is. That's called blind justice. I get so sick of you supporters of illegals saying that Congress needs to pass the laws necessary to take care of this problem. Well, hello, we have laws NOW. Enforce those. If ICE cannot enforce what we have on the books now, what makes us think ICE will enforce any new laws. As for those companies who say they cannot find citizens to work, then they need to increase the wages by more than $1. As far as I am concerned they can go ahead and move to Mexico and take Bush's library with them. Thank you very much.

After reading the first paragraph
I jumped to the comments.

BRING ON THE 2nd REVOLUTION or do we call it the 2nd Mexican war?

Same tired crap
How many thousands of files did Chavez go through before she found a case that was so bulletproof she figured eveb the cons who read Townhall would fall for it?

The Thorsteds and the Georgia chicken plant are not victims of a Congress that can't or won't tailor its legislation to people WHO HAVE ALREADY IGNORED EXISTING LEGISLATION. They are "victims" of the liberal mentality of people like Chavez, who was told she couldn't be Secretary of Labor because she once had an illegal for a housekeeper.

This article is like reading a Bill Clinton lecture on marital fidelity.

If we don't enforce existing laws by deporting all illegals currently in the country and stopping new ones from entering there will continue to be an ongoing litany of Thorsteds and chicken farms for ever and ever. And if we let "conservatives" (I use the term loosely here) like Chavez convince us to forgive the stealing, drug dealing, SS fraud, welfare fraud, etc. brought upon us by 12.5 million illegals because one of them was "innocent" and is married to a soldier we will soon become the United States of Mexico.

Oh, No!
An unethical corporation may go out of business because it can't break the law anymore! Call the lawyers!

Mrs. Thorsted was perfectly able to correct her illegal status on her 18th birthday by leaving the country...the fact that she didn't made her an adult criminal. Don't blame her situation on her parents a single day beyond that date. To her credit, she is at least trying to do things the right way now, but promising to not break the law anymore doesn't absolve you of guilt for past crimes.

Child born in Guatemala - US citizen
A child born anywhere in the world where one of the parents is a US citizen, is a US citizen. I have had 3 children born outside the US (my wife is Belgian), and all it took was filling out some paperwork (a bit of a pain) to get a Consular birth certificate and a US passport for my kids.

Pity Party
Pass the tissues, please. Another pity party in progress for our poor, misunderstood, underappreciated, "undocumented workers".

Chavez opines that "And they say they're willing to pay more for food so long as it deprives illegal aliens of jobs. But are they willing to pay companies' actual costs, which in the Georgia case more than quadrupled? And would they rather these jobs simply disappear altogether, striking devastating blows to many local economies? I doubt most Americans think this is a good bargain. But Congress has yet to wake up to the realities."

This is one of many millions of American citizens who would be delighted to "pay more for food" and for "actual costs". Those costs would be more than offset by the reduction in the costs of schools, medical services, roads, and prisons!!! And an extra bonus would be that I wouldn't have to worry about E-coli in my lettuce any more.

So what is about to happen? The Demoncrat party in collaboration with Open-Borders-Bush is about to grant amnesty to millions upon millions of "uninvited guests" who have broken into our home, stolen our jobs, robbed our children of the funds for their education, closed down our hospitals, crowded our prisons - and now claim rights.

My musket is loaded for when the revolution begins.

By the way, does anyone else notice a parallel between the Islamists claiming that all lands every occupied by Muslims (Spain, Portugal, etc.) are forever Islamic and the Reconquistas making the same claim about America's Southwest?

So what's the difference in the danger to western civilization?


For shame, Linda!
Shame on you, Linda, for stooping to liberals' methods of discourse based on emotional anecdotes!

Collateral damage
Look at ll the collateral damage ALREADY caused by NOT enforcing our own laws. Aside from breaking the law by coming here, how many Americans have died as a result of illegal aliens? We could begin with 9/11/01. Those terrorists came here legally, and they stayed beyond their legality.

However, look at the other statistics across the country of lawbreaking, including murder, rape, robbery, identity theft and highway accident tolls, not to mention welfare and even tax fraud.

I agree that the soldier and his wife are some sort of victims, but they should have attempted to resolve the problem long ago -- before she became pregnant. I'll grant there are some mitigating circumstances, but to make this a declaration against enforcing our laws or changing them to accomodate lawbreakers is a bit of a stretch. Also, we have no details presented on her parents. Are they still here illegally?

As for the chicken business, well, if we can't afford their product if it is produced legally, then should we allow other producers to break the law as well to make their products more "competitive" and we must ask, "Should we allow ALL businesses to operate outside the law in order to enhance the local economy?" Why not legalize (or ignore) moonshining, cocaine and marijuana and opium production? These 'businesses' also provide a lot of jobs and profits to 'local economies'.

Heck, Wal-Mart faces losing and closing a newly opened store in Clearwater (Virginia?) that employs 200 American citizens, cost $25 million and seemingly did everything in good faith, but apparently a "zoning ordinance" may close the store and produce a lot more "collateral damage". On top of that, Wal-Mart has taken a lot of heat regarding allegedly hiring illegal aliens. Surely, closing that store will have a large -- and negative -- impact on the local economy.

Let's get our priorities in order, Ms. Chavez, and give the full "collateral damage" report on what illegal aliens are already has costing our economy and what ignoring and granting amnesty, citizenship and other "benefits" WILL cost in the future and don't cherry pick the incidents.

Lets begin by amending the Constitution to allow citizenship only to children whose mother is an American citizen -- AND enforcing our laws that were designed to protect law abiding American citizens first and hold DELIBERATE lawbreakers totally responsible for any collateral damage resulting from their illegal presence anywhere.

Individual Attention for Illegals
I agree that illegal immigrants need individual attention. What we should do is compassionately and lovingly consider each case on its own merits. After that is done, we should deport every last one of them. Individually, of course.

Linda Chavez
is using the liberal mantra of emotionalism to make a case for illegal immigration. Nobody should fall for this. As someone else said, we already have laws on the books about this. It is ILLEGAL.

So what are we supposed to believe that none of our laws mean anything because of a sob story? Forget about it. I'm sick of sob stories about illegals.

Who's crying over the criminal illegals in this country who are raping, killing, and driving out of control on our roads? I'll save my sympathy for the American collateral damage.

And, if the "poor" chicken factory goes out of business so be it. If they paid people other than slave wages, they wouldn't be hiring illegals. So, I don't have any sympathy for that business either.

What other laws don't you want to enforc
Bank robbers and pornographers are just honest hard working people trying to support their families, make better lives for their families. And since most of them are White, enforcing those laws is racist.

We need to provide a path to citizenship? There is such a path. Follow the law!

Have you never heard of birth born abroad? Just register the birth at the local embassy or consulate!


Taylor made for sympathy
To their credit, an effort is under way to attain legal status for Mrs. Thorsted and I wish them nothing but the best. Is there any reason that Mr. Thorstead cannot go down ther and assist in expediting the process? Seems to me that someone from the American Military would lend veracity (sp) to their claims. As to the problems with the chicken shack, let them stew in their own juices so to speak

Immigration Reform
I am not for open borders. One of the primary responsibilities of a sovereign nation it to control its' borders, but there is a simple solution in immigration reform to help alleviate the problem.

There is a sop to unions in the immigration law that requires an employer to sign an affidavit that there is no American near to the place of business that has the qualifications to do a job.

Get rid of that proviso and then companies and small businesses can hire whom they want and do it legally with a greencard for the immigrant.

I do think we should enforce the law and that illegal means exactly what it says and illegals should have no rights or benefits until they fix the illegality of their situation.

You Can Pay Me Now or Pay Me Later
Chavez, the economic lightweight that she is, wonders whether the American consumer is willing to pay ACTUAL costs. I got news for you Linda, the American consumer always pays actual costs -- in one form or another. When we buy products made from illegal labor we might pay less for the good or service when the retailer slides our credit card through the reader, but we later pay for the actual costs (and then some) of that labor in the form of higher taxes, insurance rates, etc. to cover the health care, education, billingual accomodation, etc. that the illegal laborers foist upon the rest of society. If I don't eat chicken at all then I am essentially subsidizing people who do eat chicken since I still have to pay the actual costs of the illegal workers processing the chicken. Why not just let the people who eat chicken pay for the ACTUAL costs when they buy their chicken. These are only the economic realities and don't even speak to the loss of cultural identity, common language, unifying history, etc. that has been lost through our 3rd world invasion of the last 20 years.

I'll bet that these chicken processor companies could also save a lot of money by simply discarding all of their waste into a nearby river and then pass this savings onto the consumer. Wouldn't that be great! Think of all the ACTUAL savings that could be passed on to the consumer! Oh wait a second...are you trying to tell me that there might be some other costs that would have to be paid to clean up this mess thereby more than eliminating the savings?!? Hmmm. let me think about that one for awhile.

And then Chavez tries to throw in the old "devastating blows to local economies" line to buttress her arguement. If the only workers that are losing their jobs are the ones that aren't supposed to be here in the first place, then how has a community lost anything. Are people who are trying to raise a family and send money to their homeland while making around the minimum wage really going to be net contributors to a community anyway?

And to think that Ms. Chavez was actually going to be our esteemed Secretary of Labor based on her sole qualification: being a double minority. Doesn't that say something about the PC attitudes of our great nation.

BTW, Jimmy Carter I love your weeds in the garden analogy. Unfortunately, I am afraid that few of our politicians have the stomach to pull the weeds out by the roots. Instead they will probably only trim the top growth which will stimulate new growth and even more weeds.

All I can say from here is... Tom Tancredo for President! Everybody contact this great patriot and let him know that we want him to run in '08!!!

Peppermint
Awesome post.

Anyone knowingly employing illegals should be executed, their business seized and sold, with the proceeds going to the victims of crimes committed by the illegals.

Is is TOO EASY to verify the validity of someone's citizenship with low-cost background checks. NO EXCUSES!

Real Collateral Damage
My 6 year, Brownie Scout, neice was sexually molested by an illegal alien a few years ago. He was the 'husband' of a legal employee. So much for 'love' being more important than a "green card".

THAT IS REAL COLLATERAL DAMAGE. WRITE ABOUT THAT!

I am more than willing to pay more for goceries and services to keep people who will NOT obey our laws and therefore will destroy our way of life, our culture and our country



So Mrs. Chavez, if you sneer at 'immigration restrictionists', do you support 'UNRESTRICTIONISTS'???


Leaving the country
As the final step to getting your Green Card? I don't think so.

This story is long on "sob" and short on "facts".

I work with many Canadian nurses (a hospital hiring practice I do not especially approve of) and they jump through hoops maintaining their legal status.

Collateral Damage??
Logic Tortured beyond all recognition in desperation
when the FACTS and the LAW are both against you!
More of us should speak out!

Open Borders Zealots "CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH"

Come vist my blog
and have some fun figuring out how to defeat the non-normies.

GunnyG
Thanks for the compliment. Come visit my blog. We can have some fun on how to defeat the non-normies in our society. A good job is being done right here on this thread by discrediting this author and her reactionary column.

Shameless plug brought to you by Peppermint's Place.
Come one, come all.

roweler
My heart goes out to you. We have a very bad situation near where I live about 15 miles north of me. Mexican gang members and criminals have infested the town. When you look on the sexual offender list
9 out 10 of the perpetrators are Hispanic. The sheriff in that town is pulling his hair out because the jail is so over crowded he doesn't know what to do.

Again
Although it's been said adequately above, this article is really short on FACTS. First of all, it's already been reported that former employees of the chicken plant complained that wages were lowered and they could no longer afford to work there. They were so disgusted that the company would do that so that they could get rid of the American worker and draw in the illegal, that no matter how many jobs were available they wouldn't work for that company again. It's not a job an American wont do...it's a company an American has too much pride to work for.
A child born overseas with an American parent is an American citizen. I had a child born in Germany, in a German hosipital (not military) and had no trouble getting her papers. This poor guy is unfortunately a lap dog for the left. They're going to use him and play silly games in hopes that they are reaching people unwilling and unable to think for themselves. Responsible reporters would have investigated and reported facts. That isn't anything we can come to expect anymore from the MSM, or apparently Linda.
Shameful.

Miss Chavez
Always remember, Linda Chavez started out as a liberal Democrat and later became the Hispanic poster girl for neo-conservatism. Many neo-conservatives started as liberals. Until the late 60s and the rise of the New Left, they were strong Democrats and their heroes came from the Left- Woodrow Wilson, Trotsky, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Harry Truman, John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Baines Johnson, Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy, Henry Jackson, Hubert Humphrey. They despised heroes of the Right like Calvin Coolidge, Robert Taft, Joe McCarthy and Barry Goldwater. The neo-conservatives shifted their support towards the Right out of disgust with the New Left but never really accepted conservative premises. That is why the originator of neo-conservatism, Irving Kristol, maintained that it was the duty of neo-conservatives to take over conservatism and reshape it in a way contrary to where conservatives wanted to go. And this is why Linda Chavez does not wish to conserve the historic nation. Like Irving Kristol, Miss Chavez hates conservatives.


Propaganda
This type of propaganda is what is being used to get Americans to give up their country without a fight. If calling us names such as restrictionist, nativist, racist, or bigot haven't worked, they will try to manipulate with emotional pleadings. Please let us ignore your sovereignty, please let us ignore your laws. Please let us bring the corruption, fraud and lawlessness of our home countries with us. We only want you to afford us special consideration, accomodate our language, not hold us accountable for any illegal behavior. Oh, and will you please pay for all of this, too?

Making exceptions
Has it occured to anyone in sympathy with Mrs. Thorsted's plight (including Linda Chavez) that the immigration department would be in a much better position to justify making an exception for Thorsted if they hadn't already made "exceptions" for 12 million less deserving illegals?

virginia patriot
What you say is so true. And, it's important that we don't fall for this misplaced emotionalism to cover up the facts, that these people are here illegally.
It seems that most people on this thread have not fallen for this. The name calling isn't working any more either as you stated. I don't care if someone wants to call me a xenophobic. It's just another method to intimidate people into falling for the liberal's mantra.

Immigrants
To Linda Chavez,
What is it about the word "illegal" that you don't understand?? I think your name governs your feeling and good judgement.
Raul Luis Ortega

Real Collateral Damnage
I realize my 6 year old neice's story is emotional. It is however, not exceptional.

The illgel alien who committed the crime served 6 years and was deported. Thanks to the likes of the open border/ illegal alien apologists, like Mrs. Chavez, we will never know if he came back into the country. SO, YES, MRS. CHAVEZ, I AM A RESTRICTONIST.

After all, this 'hard working' man, who only wanted to see his wife, could now be employed in YOUR TOWN. My neice's family lives with that.

My neice continues to get psycological help for her permenantly destroyed childhood.

Write about that.




Immigration problems....
I suspect that the respondents here are not Ms. Chavez's target population. Nor do I think the problems she outlines should be considered just the unintended difficulties caused by our immigration laws. What we seem to have is a bunch of gremlins in the bureaucracy who are willing to shove individuals into sad situations to further our President's campaign to open our borders without speaking openly about the situation. But then, that sounds like a whacko conspiratorialist....what fun.

Thank You Ruly
I know some Hispanics who are citizens and just as mad as the rest of us at the gov't's dereliction of duty. However, some don't want to publicly state their views fearing retribution or ridicule, thank you for being a true American and having the courage to speak out.

Too Bad!
This guy married someone he knew is a criminal alien. Not only should she and the kids not be allowed back into the U.S., he should be court martialled and imprisoned for aiding and abetting a felony!

Oh Linda
I am so tired of Linda excusing illegals. If a company has trouble being in business if it can't hire illegals, then it should go out of business. PERIOD. Or move their facilities to Mexico, keep the illegals there (where they would be legal!). This would help the Mexican economy (which is the ROOT of the problem)and help keep the illegals from coming. They also need to build a better infrastructure and build schools in poor areas and the Mexican government might try giving a rats a$$ about educating the indigenous population and not just people of European descent.

How about this:
Put our military on the border today, with orders to shoot to kill anyone coming at them with a gun. (Bye, bye drug runners!)
Tell all illegals that starting today, no more government handouts AND they have 30 days to get their affairs in order and leave. If after 30 days they have not left, they will be arrested and fingerprinted. This will go into a data base where they will never be allowed back in this country. Those who self deport won't be guaranteed entry again either, but they will at least have a shot because they have not been entered into the database.
Then we send the National Guard into MS-13 gang infested areas and round them up. Hopefully, most MS-13ers will be killed in the gun battle.
Here's a ridiculous fact. MUSC hospital in Charleston, SC has started a new program where they actively SEEK out ILLEGALS in the rural areas and give them FREE PREVENTATIVE care!! Free blood work etc. They say this will save money (yeah for the illegals). This will only be a magnet for the illegals relatives to go to SC!

Please go to http://www.NumbersUSA.com and start sending FREE faxes to your representatives. This is a great organization. They shoot you an email right before important immigration legislation is coming up for a vote. Whether you are Republican, Democrat, or Independent please use this free service. In fact, if you are a DEMOCRAT I URGE you to let your representive know that. I think that Democrats against illegal immigration could have even more impact.

And lastly, check out http://www.immigrationshumancost.org. You will not believe some of the vicious crimes committed by illegals (and some legal immigrants as well). Take note: Our brave police officers are being murdered regularly by illegals. HOW about that COLLATERAL damage Ms. Chavez?????????

Whose fault is it?
The Thorsted's problems are the result of breaking the law. It's not uncommon for lives to be disrupted or even ruined when laws are broken.
You say it not Johana's fault, that may be true but it's definitely not the fault of the U.S. government either. Johana's parents have put her in this position and NO ONE ELSE. While it's a sad story, it's what should be happening to ALL the other illegals in this country.

As far as the economic lesson is concerned, the plant will recover. If they can't find enough workers, or the right workers the chicken plant will do what American companies usually do. They adapt, they automate, they innovate, and they keep moving forward. That's the American way.

And, as usual, the economics lessons provided by the illegal immigrant apologists is one sided and only discusses perceived short term negative impacts.

one more thing
Since Sept. 11, 2001 illegals have murdered over 20,000 US citizens (many are children). Now there's some collateral damage, but I guess it's worth it if we can save 5 cents a pound on chicken!

Here is one example. In Atlanta, Ga some children were playing in their apartment parking lot when a car with a flat tire drove through. One of the chilren ( a 9 year old boy ) told the people in the car that they had a flat tire. Do you know what one of the illegals did? (He was from Honduras). He got out of the car and planted an AX in the boys face (he died shortly thereafter).

We are being INVADED, MURDERED and they plan on taking over RECONQUISTA. What is wrong with our government? And people out there, stop hiring them! That includes hiring them to clean your house, mow your lawn,etc. You are creating the magnet that is drawing them here! If you suspect a business is using illegals ..report them. If you hire someone to landscape your yard or roof your house, tell the boss if they use illegals you will not hire him! They must have a work visa to work in this country for low skilled jobs and they must get that visa BEFORE coming to this country. They are matched with a job BEFORE coming here. If a guy comes in who can't speak English (or very little), has no work visa but has a social security number....DO NOT hire him!! It is my understanding that you are supposed to be a US citizen before you can have a social security number and in order to be a US citizen, you are supposed to know English! (At least you used to have to speak English).


Disease
Here's 2 lines from the Kansas City Star today:
"A Tyson Foods Inc. worker in Emporia whose death was called a work-related accident was suffering from tuberculosis, according to a coroner’s report."
They didn't say he was illegal or even identify him; however, we all know TB is rampant among illegals and they are the ones working in the food producing industry, restaurants, etc.

The article goes on to say this is under investigation and other workers may have been exposed.

These greedy companies are crying about their profits but they don't give a hang about the health of their workers OR the people who eat food that is probably contaminated by their own illegal employees.

Jane
There's a distribution plant nearby me that my neighbor delivers food to. All the workers have to be illegal because none of them speak English and none of them know any math whatsoever. The county knows about this but nothing is done.

You're right, we're being invaded, raped, and murdered. Like I said in an earlier post or maybe on another thread, I thought that was the reason for government, to protect us from invasion, to protect our borders.

Just the opposite is happening. It's almost as if we no longer have a government.

Them's the breaks
In this case, the sins of the mothers are being borne by the children. Weep, weep.
It's not our fault that this woman did nothing to correct her status in all this time. How old is she? She was "forced" to come here, but she did nothing about it upon coming of age? Weep, weep. The big amnesty was twenty years ago. Did her parents "force her" to come here in hopes of another nefarious agreement between the president and Congress? Weep, weep.

Hey Linda, life isn't always fair. I know.
You're using the same tactic the television media did in the seventies and eighties when times were tough and taxpayers were squeezed and we looked to cut back on SOME welfare programs. The local news guys always had some poor soul that would be hurt by the cancellation of an inefficient and wasteful government program. It won't work anymore.

deedee
I recently read an article that TB was almost a wiped out disease here in the states. Now with all the illegals TB is making a comeback.

More collateral damage for Americans. Weep over that Linda Chavez

Shouldn't have been here
I don't need a lecture on how illegal immigration is needed. If we hadn't let them all come here illegally in thefirstp lace, and we didn't let ocmpanies hire them illegally, and if we enforced our immigration laws, these companies wouldn't be in the situation they are in. Two wrongs don't make a right and twenty wrongs don't either.

We need to get used to the idea of better pay for Americans to get them to do these jobs and accept the fact that goods SHOULD cost more than they do when made by illegals in this country.

You don't corrupt supply and demand by illegally hiring people who will work for less. If we want the poultry, then we should pay what is costs to LEGALLY process the food. Capitalism and free markets will stabilize the cost to what it is worth. Illegal aliens shouldn't deflate those costs.

Too many spelling mistakes
You'd think I only went to second grade. I need to work on my typing.

Chavez Math
So according to Chavez math, this chicken processing plant's costs have QUADRUPULED since the illegal labor crackdown. Is that because they have now raised their wages by a whopping $1 per hour in the meek hope that honest legal hard working Americans will fall all over themselves for this "astronomically" higher wage offering? Does that mean that the processing plant was paying the illegals around 25 cents an hour? Something doesn't add up.

If Chavez Math arrives at a 4 fold increase by including their new legal costs, fines, disruptions, hiring & training costs due to their illicit previous activity; then she is being deliberately manipulative to exagerate the increased costs that consumers will face in the long term by having real legal Americans do their work.

Maybe these guys could try to hire legal citizens, pay them a decent wage and encourage loyalty and hard work. No lawsuits, no increased legal costs, no astronomical training costs and turnover -- just good loyal hard working employees. Nah, somebody get those Hmong refugees on the line and see if they would bite for an extra buck an hour over our previous wage offering! That should do it right?!?

Does Linda also have
sympathy for U.S. Citizens that break the law? What about the some bank robber that decides to turn himself in - you know, to try and right the wrong. Should we have sympathy for that person?
I mean, with this sort of thinking - anyone can commit any crime and as long as you can stay hidden long enough to do some "good things" in the meantime - all should be forgiven.
What an absolute joke. I can't believe she would write something like this. I am so grateful for the service of this guy in Iraq. However, he knowingly married someone that had broken the law of the country he was supposed to be serving. So we respect some laws and not others. Well, I want to not have to respect the law that says shoplifting is a crime. I would like to go into stores and take whatever I want without paying. I mean, stores have insurance, so it is a victimless crime. If I happen to get caught, anyone think Linda will write a sad story about my husband and young child?

Illegals
"Arrests of illegal migrants along the U.S.-Mexican border have dropped by more than a third since U.S. National Guard troops started helping with border security, suggesting that fewer people may be trying to cross. "The presence of the National Guard has had a big impact on migrants,"
================
Imagine a nice fence with razor wire, a cleared killing zone, towers, motion detectors, minefields, and a declared free-fire zone.

There'd be ZERO illegals, the desired end result!

Toss Chavez too....
Cripes...doesn't this Chavez ever give up? Illegal Aliens are criminals. Toss this woman out of this country for good and if her husband wants to be with her let him go to her. He knowingly married a criminal. Good riddance.

peppermint
I have a suggestion regarding that plant near you. Inform the IRS you suspect there are alot of illegals working there and you also suspect they are being paid under the table. Trust me, INS won't do diddly, but IRS will. Perhaps people in the area should start bombarding management with questions regarding the status of its employees. We are going to have to start putting the pressure on these type of employers. Make life miserable for them.

I'm a naturalized citizen...
I was never an illegal. If I could do it properly, why not EVERY other immigrant.

I'm also a combat disabled Marine veteran. Which does NOT give me any privilege to break the law. If I can stay legal, why not everyone else?

Da gob'mint does need to adjust the number of legal immigrants - currently 50,000 per year - to a more-realistic level. Our worthless politicians have not done anything about that part of the immigration problem either!

Also... prosecute to the max the chicken company that had to know they were breaking the law.

And... shame on Linda Chavez for this BS column.

We stole Texas legitimately
When Americans colonized Texas territory, they were required to become Catholic as part of the deal on being allowed to enter Mexico and settle Mexican territory.

Of course, Protestant Americans, being liars, cheats and frauds, did not do so. American illegals stole Texas, committed acts of terrorism and called it freedom, began an armed insurrection, and now celebrate their acts of lawlessness as part of the grand history of America.

Republican President Ulysses S. Grant said it was the only war he was ashamed to have taken part in. The Republican from Illinois, Abraham Lincoln, voted against the war and attacked it as an act of theft. Thoreau went to jail rather than pay taxes to support the nonsense. But today's Republicans choose not to remember any of this.

Now Protestant Republicans are angry because Catholic Hispanics want to steal back what we rightfully stole from them.

Americans are hypocrites.

skellmeyer
Ah, two wrongs make a right?

So we had slavery as well. Should I have to give up my home, or maybe a portion of my tax dollars as reparations eventhough my ancestors did not arrive here until the 1880's and WENT THROUGH ELLIS ISLAND the rigth way?

For your information, the 1840 Mexican-American War started when Mexican Dragoons fired on American cavalry. We bought and paid for AZ/NM in the Gadsden Purchase. Do we have to give that back too?

Linda's Problem
It is apparent that Linda Chavez puts her race ahead of her country.

Firing on Americans
Yeah, those Mexican Dragoons fired on American cavalry because the American cavalry had begun an armed incursion across the Mexican-American border.

But don't argue with me about it - argue with two Republican presidents: Ulysses S. Grant and Abraham Lincoln. They are on MY side, not yours in that debate.

It is a misdemeanor civil offense to enter the country. You commit the same level of offense by speeding on a federal highway or failing to keep your weeds cut on your property.

When you do those things, YOU ARE JUST AS *ILLEGAL* as the immigrants - same level of offense. I say we deport everyone who speeds. That will teach the bustards.

If it weren't for illegal immigrants, the US would have negative population growth, just like all the European countries.

We stole *LAND* from the Mexicans. They want the land back. This is not a question of reparations to the descendants of slaves, this is a question of returning stolen land to the country it originally belonged to.

Poland got reconstituted into a country on exactly this issue in the twentieth century. World Wars I and II were fought over this issue (the Alsace-Lorraine region between France and Germany).

WE STOLE THE LAND.
We didn't buy it, as we did from France.
We *STOLE* it.
That's what US Grant said, that's what Abe Lincoln said, that's what we did.

So, for those people who keep insisting on listening to the voices of our history, listen to your own Republican Presidents. Americans are THIEVES in this regard.

skellmeyer
Countries starting wars and winning and taking another country's territory is true of just about every nation on earth. Sorry, Mexico lost. They want to invade and take it back, then we are justified in fighting to keep it, just as they were justified in fighting to keep it over 100 years ago. By the way, that does not give them the right to rape us and murder our children, mothers and fathers.
As far as these Mexicans claiming this is their land, what proof do they have that their lineage actually lived here? I'm guessing their lineage lived in Mexico. Guess they want to take it back so they can turn the southwest and California into a third world toilet like the rest of Mexico(I have traveled all over Mexico so I know what I am talking about). I tell you this, if they take it back, I hope they aren't expecting us to still give them government handouts (since those areas will no longer be the USofA). Hope they don't expect us to birth their babies and pay for it. It won't be long and they will want to leave what was once California and the southwest and come East (I know, I know they are already here). They will want to leave those third world toilets they have created and come up with some great mythical Alztec(sp?) Eastern civilization they will claim was their ancestorial home. Heck, we all have an "ancestorial home". GET OVER IT!! Let's face it, the grass is greener here because we made it that way. Mexico has the natural resources to be as great a nation as we are. Instead, they choose corruption and don't give a darn about the country as a whole.
By the way skellmeyer, what is your legal status?

Chicken Pluckers
I find it interesting that the author seems to believe that it is always good to have employees willing to endure what could easily be sub standard working conditions (I don't know nd neither does the author).

When legal employees assert their rights adn complain about the onditions, the author seems to believe that the answer to that is to use illegal workers who are willing to just work and shut up.

Why not tell the company to do business in a way that works within the legal confines of our country?

Question
Is the right to move about freely and unalienable right?

skellmeyer
Jane has the right of it. Get over it.

And since they ARE invading us, we should treat it as an armed attack and act accordingly.

Skellmeyer the Reconquista
History is filled with injustices, double crossings, tyrants, hypocrisy, traitors, death, and destruction. Perhaps the Mexican War fits somewhere within those categories. It might also be worth mentioning that the Spanish conquerors, Aztecs, and indigenous peoples of this area didn't exactly have a full claim to virtue and righteouness either. So what......

All we can deal with now is what we have laid before us... and that is nothing less than an invasion of 3rd worlders. Obviously, you feel this invasion is actually a reconquista -- and I at least give you credit for openly declaring the rationalizations of our poor brethern south of the border. Whether our ancestors were right or wrong, I stand ready to fight against this invasion and affront to our sovereignty.

Skellmeyer
Skellmeyer, we would not have negative population growth. We would have close to zero population growth if we had no immigration (illegal and legal). What this means is for every person that dies, we would replace that dead person with one baby. That is ideal!! Of course, if we hadn't aborted 30 to 40 million humans these past 30 years we would not have had zero population growth.
You say this land "originally belonged to Mexico". Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the Spanairds who "took over" and made it Mexico? Couldn't we say all Europeans in Mexico should go back to Europe since it wasn't originally Mexico after all. It was Mayan civilizations living there BEFORE it was Mexico. Do you catch my drift? This "land was stolen" business goes back to the first humans who walked upright. GET OVER IT!

Laws
Why would anybody have any sympathy for any buisness that uses cheap, illegal, labor just so they can make THEIR profits.

My profitablity would go way up if I fired my employees and hired illegal aliens.

If I could pay under the table, think of the money I could (save)cheat the government out of.

People who hire illegal aliens are pirates.



Skellmeyer
Have you ever been to deep Mexico? And I ain't saying frigging Cancun, etc. I'm saying DEEP MEXICO, where abject povery and rampant crime is the norm.

I used to work with a guy who was a bodyguard for Americans in Mexico City. After the third time he was shot foiling a kidnapping, he left to do saner work! That stuff is the norm!

And you'd like to have it go on here in the States. No thanks.

If you hate America so much, please, exercise your freedom of choice and leave.


Linda's beloved illegals!
Have you noticed how many so-called Mexican/Americans fight for the rights of illegal aliens rather than the rights of American citizens? And Linda, most recent esitmates of your beloved illegal countrymen is around 20 million. Tell me this Linda? Are you an American or are you Mexican? Did you know we have laws and did you know we have a Constitution that was written to protect AMERICAN CITIZENS? Did you know your precious illegal aliens have committed many crimes? Entering OUR COUNTRY illegally is illegal! Stealing ID's is illegal. Working in our coun try without permission is illegal! Receiving any government or social benefits is illegal. These people are criminals! Nothing less!

The people who come here illegally are not couragous! If they were they would stay in their own country and fight for their rights and demand their government provide jobs for them. Mexico for one is not a poor country! Instead they come here to steal from the American taxpayer. Stealing is a way of life in Mexico from the government on down. They don't think anything of it. I lived there, I know! So hey Linda, tell your beloved illegal countrymen to suck it up, be couragous and go back to their homeland and fight for what they believe is right! Then finally, they would have something real to be proud of. I'll never forget seeing the millions of illegals flooding American cities waving Mexican flags demanding from America what ISN'T THEIRS! Paint that picture in your mind so you never forget it!

Armed Attack
Jane,

How many children have you had? If it's less than three, then you are part of the problem. Same for you, GunnyG.

Quite frankly, we are paying Mexicans to come across the border and have babies for us. America is in negative population growth without the Hispanics. Without them, you and millions of other Boomers will be euthanized by the doctors and the insurance companies who don't want to pay for your hospital stay.

Mexico wants its land back. It will get its land back because Mexicans have children and Americans don't.

You can't stop the border influx. GWB isn't going to stop the border influx because business needs warm bodies and Americans refuse to provide them.

Democrats need the voters (because they reproduce even less than Republicans), Republicans need the workers, Mexico wants the land. All the interests have converged.

You lose.

I've gotten speeding tickets, so I guess that makes me as illegal as anyone coming across the border. In other words, I'm as illegal as you are.


skellmeyer
Whatever dope you're smoking, stop before it's too late.

GunnyG asks...
GunnyG askes:

Have you ever been to deep Mexico? And I ain't saying frigging Cancun, etc. I'm saying DEEP MEXICO, where abject povery and rampant crime is the norm.

My reply:

Yep. After the 1987 stock market crash I lost my job, put on my backpack and wandered around this great nation and Latin America for 9 months. I went via the back country. Several times I had to palm "sidearm” with full intention of its use.

Here is what people will not tell you. Pedophilia is rampant in Mexico. Incest is very common, the mentally disadvantaged are treated very, very cruelly, rape is common, child prostitution is common, and Negroes are despised. More the people of Mexico city are hated by those from the country and the country folk seem to be divided into separate subcultures and races with different versions of Spansih that make it difficult for effective communication between the groups.

I met a lot of good people, and a whole lot of scum. One memory that is burned into my mind was a man selling a girl about 9 years of age to men in a cantina. She was on a pool table and there was a group of men waiting to use her.

The above is common outside the city proper. Many, many times a man approached me with a child 7-11 in tow offering her.

Sickening...



Mental illness in Mexico...
I was shocked at the number of people in Mexico who seemed mentally ill or simply dumb. I asked a close associate who was a Mexican national why that was. He said it was due to inbreeding! A lot of things started making sense to me then. I asked why women kept having so many children when they couldn't take care of them and I was told simply because Mexicans like sex. Well that fits with the mentality doesn't it?

I remember walking down a street in La Paz. There sitting on the street side was a man without legs. He was old, dirty and begging. My heart went out to him and I reached in my purse and grabbed some money and handed it to him. I didn't know at the time what I gave him because it didn't matter, he was in need and had no way to help himself. My friend went ballistic on me for giving the man so much money. I explained I was happy to do it because this man was helpless! My so-called friend had a fit...he was Mexican. He also believes Americans owe Mexicans everything we have. I finally learned that a little later on. So helping a poor legless Mexican was wrong but illegal alien Mexicans stealing from America is right! Something wrong with that thinking...could be in the genes!

Give it up skellmeyer
For moment, leave the dispute about the Mexican-American War aside, and ask yourself one question. Why do so many Mexicans want to come live here permanently compared to how many US citizens want to move to Mexico permanently?

The answer is always some form of " the standard of living is higher here." But why is that? And do you think this only started happening AFTER the Mexican-American War?

I don't care if your version of that war is 100% true (which I doubt). It is obvious that the people of Texas are much better off being part of the US than they would be as part of Mexico.

So what are you fighting for? The right of Mexicans to come here and turn Texas and most of the rest of the Southwest into the same kind of impoverished third world toilet that Mexico has become; where it's not even safe to drink the water?

Your speeding ticket analogy won't hunt either. It goes like this. I've exceeded the legal limit too. But tomorrow I'll slow down and your aliens will still be illegal.

Make it a felony!
We need to go back and reinstate the effort to make being in OUR COUNTRY illegal a felony!

Economism
Skellmeyer and many others who call themselves believe in the doctrine of economism. Coined by the late intellectual John Attarian, economism is the philosphy of placing economic matters at the forefront of all decisions and marginalizing anything else, especially culture, religion, ethnicity, race and family.

America can live without $ 8 an hour chicken choppers. In fact, chicken processing used to be a middle class job for less intelligent white and black Americans, paying as much as $ 20 an hour, enough to support a family. Instead, we now have families where the women are forced to work outside the home to supplement family income. Towns with meat-packing facilities have turned into Third World pigsties, towns like Lexington, NB, Siler City, NC, Garden City, KS, dodge City, KS and Temperancevill, VA. Not very conservative, is it?

I am a cultural conservative before I am an economic conservative.

GunnyG and Fiddler

First, thanks GunnyG, for the comment to my blog on this mess. And I agree with all your comments here.

Fiddler, too, has the right idea. "Deport each one. Individually, of course." I love it.

Oooooh, scary Linda,


“Collateral Damage in the Immigration War”

To have “”collateral damage” you must have an “Immigration War”.
These are your terms you just bandy around, just like “immigration restrictionists”. Very little attention is focused on the law, which seems to be your big problem. Instead label all those who support upholding the law as “restrictionists”. Back to your nonsensical terms, “Immigration War” Linda? Come on now. Is there a war declared against immigration? File your collateral damage agenda under that. Of course the word illegal is really the problemo – the pertinent term you don’t want to use. I might say that illegals are destructionists of legal process. I could say illegals ar at war with the law.


Living Standards
Is "my version" of the Mexican-American war true? Well, if I'm a liar, so is Abraham Lincoln and US Grant, both Republican presidents.

Now, why do people come here? Sure, the standard of living is higher. But the differences in the standard of living are not a result of the Mexican-American war, that's a result of the industrial revolution in the US following the Civil War.

The Civil War forced advancements in technology (the telegraph, the railroad, the factory) on the North that would not otherwise have happened with such speed. The North won because it developed superior technology and had superior numbers, not because it had morality or superior military strategy.

Mexico never had the kind of civil war we had, with its razor-sharp geographic stratification between neophyte industry and agrarian cultures so it never went through that development.

Personally, I live in Texas (Plano) and I like the higher standard of living as much as the next person. But I also recognize that Americans aren't having children, so the culture as we know it will not survive very long.

It isn't the first time America has undergone a profound cultural shift. For instance, in 1776, this country was 95% agrarian, now it is 80% urban. For a second instance, the Founding Fathers essentially outlawed corporations, now they dominate the culture.

Hispanic culture and thought is going to dominate this country because they have children and we don't. Whether I like that or not (and I don't want to learn Spanish, although I recognize I will have to) is not relevant. This change is unavoidable.

If America is to survive in any form, it has to have children. We don't have them. Case closed.


Our Economy and the Illegals
For the last several years the scope of the jobs illegals do has grown. Most people picutre illegals doing either farm produce work, housekeeping, or dishwashing. This isn't true. Other industries have gotten into the act. One of the ramifications of the laxity of Congress and Bush is the ever growing scope of work that is given to illegals. Most construction laborers are now 100% illegals; ditto for lawn care, factory assemblers, meat packing plants, and janitors. Most of these people receive pay below the minimum wage, thier employers are not bound to withhold Social Security, Unemployment, or Medicare deductions. In short the employers and Congress are particiating in the exploitation of illegals. They are also working against the bottom third of the wage earners who normally did these jobs. Temp agencies now recruit illegals to come here for that purpose.

People say that illegals do the work no one else will do. This is a neat trick; Get illegals into the work place at below minimum wage, downsize the legal workers, and then invite a temp agency to provide you with all the illegals you want. The big meatpackers in Iowa just got caught employing 3000 illegals. Not one of them was fined. These illegals could give a hoot that they just robbed an Ameircan of his livelyhood. In the past, the lower middle class could raise a family by working 2 jobs (I did. I also went to school). The lower end factory jobs didn't pay great, but there were benefits and I supplemented my income with another part time factory job. Not anymore. The factories went to China. THose that remained employ illegals.

How many Kids?
I know that personal anecdotes are small potatoes in this world of ours, but I do have six children. As my wife is a mere forty, I am hoping for more, God willing. Just possibly, my offspring might inherit the earth.

I am raising my children to be conservative but not Republican. Republicans like Bush and McCain like to betray conservatives like me and my children.

skunkellmeyer
At this time I don't have children, but when I marry the right man I will. Please explain your logic of how me not having children gives Mexicans the right to sneak into this country?
As far as them wanting to euthanise me? I'll just pretend I don't speak any English and am here for the Reconquista (after all it is my right!). That way I'll get all the free medical care I want. Who cares if the average American can hardly afford health insurance anymore because of all the illegals getting free medical care. It's all about the "stolen" land after all! Hey, I think I'll pretend I'm illegal when I have my children as well. Wow! Think how much money I will save!! It is about "stolen" land after all!! Reconquista!! Arriba! Arriba!
By the way, if you get caught speeding, you get a fine and lose points on your license and your insurance rates go up. Get caught speeding alot and you lose your license and the right to be on the roads behind the wheel. See? Consequences! But hey it's about the "stolen" land after all! Reconquista! Reconquista! Oh wait, that excuse doesn't work for speeding tickets does it?

Now, skunkellmeyer you never answered my questions.

1. What about the fact that Mexico has not always been Mexico?
2. What is YOUR legal status?

The De Population Bomb?
Skellmeyer, where do you come up with this nonsense about Americans not having children? As others have already stated, our population would be near replacement level if not for the current invasion. What's so wrong or disasterous about that? In my book that is just about perfect. For christ sake we just passed the 300 million mark and are barreling right through to a doubling of our population this century due to the invasion. Now that to me is what is scary!

We no longer live in an agrarian economy that requires multiple children for survival. Your paranoia over depopulation and desire to revisit the rights and wrongs of the Mexican War are indeed laughable and amusing; but your contention about America losing it's population without this invasion is downright false and incorrect. Did you breed a litter of pups yourself, and are now feeling guilty and looking for moral justification!

skellmeyer
"If America is to survive in any form, it has to have children. We don't have them."

But we have to have a country that upholds our laws. So far the jury is still out. I don’t know about you but I tire of hearing assimilation. The ones who are supposed to be assimilating-r-us, to people with little respect for the rule of law. Multiplication tables are not the real problem. Though they’ll tell us that laws are the problem.

The Mexicans and Children
Once Hispanics reach the middle class, they have about as many children as the rest of the population. The US maintains 2.1 children/couple. India is about 3.8 children/couple. Mexico is about 2.8 children/couple. The EU nations is about .8 children/couple- however thier Islamic minority maintains about 4 children per couple. China and Japan are about .8 to 1 child per couple.

The only reason Illegals are welcomed here in America is the fact that they are illegal and are willing to work at wages that are illegal. No one seems to understand that there cannot be amnesty for the simple fact that the employers would hav to pay them minimum wage plus withholdings.

Paying for Children
Well, I don't see a problem with having children via government subsidies. The government subsidizes virtually every commercial crop on the market, so why not subsidize the cost of having children?

When Americans don't have children, American's don't have teenage workers or sufficient adult workers thirty years later. Nature abhors a vacuum.

Immigrants come in to take the empty jobs, jobs left empty through contraception and its child, abortion.

Mexico has not always been Mexico, and if the Aztecs were around to take back their land, I'd say the same thing. Similarly, you can hardly blame the Cherokees for having waged war on the white man given the Trail of Tears, nor can you be that angry with Mexicans for being upset about the war we provoked and the unfair treaties we imposed on them at the point of a gun.

And what is my legal status? I'll give you the same answer I gave before - it's as good as yours. We are both lawbreakers, right? You have gotten speeding tickets, lawn citations, failed to make a complete stop at a stop sign, etc., right?

BTW, I admire the name-calling. It demonstrates the brilliance of your arguments. :)

having lots of children
is fine with me as long as you take full responsibility for them and don't expect taxpayers to support them and you.

Many Americans don't want children because they tend to take responsibility for their own and do not want to depend on the government to provide for them. Due to the millions of illegal aliens and their children in our country, education and medical costs are sky high.Our medical profession doesn't begin to provide as well as it once did, our schools are overrun with children who don't speak English lowering the standard of education for all children.

Our neighborhoods are overflowing with gangs and crime, sexual predators and many really don't care to bring children up in that environment. My son is 36 and doesn't have children for those very reasons! The general standard of living is much lower than when I grew up.

Chavez - half star, commentary - five
Chavez found another sob story - there must be 20 - 30 million of them by now. But then there's the other side you don't hear - the jobs that aren't available for Americans - you know, the ones they won't do - or at least at the price - and conditions - illegals will. How about their families? Or how about the children they couldn't have because they were over burdened by the tax structure that supports the social needs illegal aliens.

Wasn't it Linda who couldn't accept the Secretary of Labor Job because she benefited from having her own live-in illegal alien house servant?

This issue is still the 500 lb. gorilla that both parties just seem to think will go away. As I've said, it's not theirs to give away. The commentary, with a few exceptions, was excellent. Biff, Bam, Pow - take that, Linda.

huh?
Your legal status is a good as mine. I am in this country legally (born here). Why not just give a straight answer? Just because you had a speeding ticket or robbed a bank or worse does not change your legal/illegal status as to whether or not you are legally in the country. Just because a US citizens speeds, that does not change their "legal" status as to their US citizenship or illegalalienship. As for calling you a skunk? Well anyone who thinks it is ok to not fight to preserve ones nation is a skunk in my book. YOu say that if the Aztecs were still around you would feel the same way. You are saying they no longer exist. That means that mythical Aztec nation is not a valid argument. Their is no stolen land since there are no Aztecs. (You said it).

logistics
skellmeyer,
Did it cross your mind that anchor babies are an incentive for it? Let the government tell us we have to have babies to live here and it will foot the hospital cost etc. How quick will we procreate? But as ridiculous as it is its not the real issue. We go from industrialization to procreation. Not only does we have a production battle, he wants a "Reproduction War". That will save our culture? Then you want the war with the Zero Population growth crowd. They’ll put abortion clinics on every corner.


Taxpayers support
Seems to me that everyone who pays property taxes to finance a local school is paying child support. Why are you wailing about paying for the child's birth? You can't educate a child that doesn't exist.

Many Americans don't want children because they are selfish hedonists who don't want someone else's needs to upstage their own. That's what opposition to immigration boils down to most days of the week.

Medical costs skyrocket in this country because selfish Boomers have failed to be killed by plague. Instead, they are living longer than their parents or their grandparents.

The insurance companies won't put up with that - they need to make a profit. Thus, the children who survived the Boomers will make sure the Boomers are euthanized, in much the same way the Boomers contracepted and aborted many of their own children, and for essentially the same reason: you are in the way.

My grandfather's school was also over-run by people who didn't speak English. He lived in the St. Louis area and went to a grade school whose classes were conducted entirely in German, as were most of the schools in the area. Same goes for German and Polish gangs of street kids. But he didn't whine as much as you do.

As for your son, he's a narcissistic whelp who can't find a woman willing to put up with him. In short, he takes after his parents.

Anchor Babies
xpressit,

Of course I understand that anchor babies are how we pay Hispanics to have our children for us.

I wrote about this on my blog ages ago:
http://bridegroompress.com/catalog/article_info.php?articles_id=230


What do you expect...
...from Chavez? Let us not forget that El Presidente Bush had to withdraw Chavez' nomination for Secretary of Labor of Estados Unitos when it slipped out that she was an employer of illegals. Can you imagine the subterfuge and sabotage that would have occurred at Labor with this point man for Reconquista at the helm of the agency?

Not only is this loyalty-conflicted apologist for foreign nationals unfit to serve in a position of responsibility in our government, she is also unfit to lecture law-abiding citizens in this forum.

I think Townhall needs to institute a "no advocates for lawlessness" clause in its columnist agreement. By continuing to provide Chavez a platform from which to broadcast her anti-American propaganda, TH dishonors itself as much as she dishonors herself.

sorry skellmeyer
they are not having "our" babies. Maybe the government think so but we Americans don't.


...."Medical costs skyrocket in this country because selfish Boomers have failed to be killed by plague. Instead, they are living longer than their parents or their grandparents."

I see the true "self" here. Finally your hatred of America shines through.

..."My grandfather's school was also over-run by people who didn't speak English. He lived in the St. Louis area and went to a grade school whose classes were conducted entirely in German, as were most of the schools in the area. Same goes for German and Polish gangs of street kids. But he didn't whine as much as you do."

Well let's see, was that when America only had perhaps 50,000 new immigrants instead of 20 million illegal immigrants? And was your grandfather an illegal alien? Did he swim across the Atlantic to become another "courageous" immigrant?

...."As for your son, he's a narcissistic whelp who can't find a woman willing to put up with him. In short, he takes after his parents."

Oh really? My son lives and works in Los Angeles where the stench of Mexico permeates everything. When he's able to move away from that area he would like to have a family. Hopefully he won't move near you. It's hard to tell what would be worse!

Boomers
Actually, my dislike of Boomers shines through.

But it is typical of a Boomer to think that they are everything worthwhile in America.

As for the grandfather, yeah, the immigration at the turn of the century was, on a per capita basis, about as large as immigration is today.

Was he legal? Beats me. Lots of people came across the borders through Canada, especially Irish and Germans.

Yikes the apolgists are out
skellmeyer: "Of course I understand that anchor babies are how we pay Hispanics to have our children for us."


Say what?? That makes absolutely no sense. You have a problem with motivation which is on the part of the person, parent -- you know the pro-creating process. THat is called responsiibility. Then you attribute that to our policy. It shows why we need limits and law to prevent the abuse, on the part of the illegals. So you would be for closing that?

I heard everything: for example equating a parking ticket equated with illegal immigration. But both have a problem going beyond limits.

If people are not here legally what business or right to say what our laws or policy, should be? If they advocate a lawless society, look no further than present Iraq, when A few gangs, squads, or groups try to advantage themselves over others.

You will not say having a baby is being used and extorted by an illegal. Its the same as using human life for any other reason. You support one going down to mainstreet to pick up a couple illegal immigrants for labor? Instead of being victims, they are victimizing themselves. You want us to be emotionally cancerned about it.


The onus is on that.
Again, do you support cutting off funds?

you are wrong!
"As for the grandfather, yeah, the immigration at the turn of the century was, on a per capita basis, about as large as immigration is today."

This is a lie! When truth doesn't work, one can always turn to untruth....if you are a person whom truth means nothing.

"Was he legal? Beats me?" What else can you say! I gather by your remarks law means nothing to you. I wonder if you were a victim of broken laws you would be so flippant. I doubt it. I find it interesting in view of your perceived knowledge of history and immigration, you don't know if your grandfather was here legally. You remind me of our Attorney General Gonzales. He doesn't know much about anything either!

Sand man
"I think Townhall needs to institute a "no advocates for lawlessness" clause in its columnist agreement."

This sounds quite reasonable to me. Why they need to give them a forum for their apologists here is beyond me.

The Other Side of the Coin
Perhaps Ms. Chavez would like to counter this article with another one showing the other side of the coin.
She could use the case of three people in one town, Weimer, Texas, who were brutally murdered by one illegal, Angel Resendez, a.k.a. The Railroad Killer. Unfortunately, those three people were just a few of the many who lost their lives to an illegal who crossed our borders at will.
Or perhaps Ms. Chavez would like to address the hidden costs to American so that disreputable companies can keep the cost of their product down. You know those hidden costs like what it costs each state to provide social services for illegals. Try $5 BILLION to Texas alone.
You see, you need to understand that when liberals are talking to us about subjects they are for like abortion, higher taxes, ending the war in Iraq, they want us to use logic, not emotion.
But when we talk about the millions of people who have come to our nation by ignoring our laws and showing no respect for their host nation, we are to use not logic, but emotion.
Once you have that figured out, you will understand their stance on everything.

A must see video on immigration!

All concerned Americans must see this video! Send to all persons you know care about the issue of immigration in America.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265

population growth
In the mid 20th century the population was around 160 million. NOT underpopulated.

Flown over L.A. lately?

Someone tell me why zero population growth is bad.

Why, for the love of God, would we want to import poverty and raise the population level?


I'll Pay More for Chicken
in order to get illegal aliens out of this country!

It never fails
that the apologists will come up with any kind of distraction, like "having babies", "we stole Mexico's land" to sideline everyone from the real issue. ILLEGAL ALIENS!!

This is simple for those who don't get it.

Coming into this country illegally is breaking the law. Period. There are NO excuses.

KUDOS
Sandman: AMEN, I had forgotten the Labor appointment/withdrawal. I can only conclude that the fix has been in from the beginning.

Retire05: We had a double murder here in Richmond. The local news stations would not identify the illegal status of the suspect (from El Salvadore). The cable company had a hispanic heritage event recently where the Mexican Consulate had a table set up to hand out Matricula Consular cards. These are not supposed to be valid ID for any purpose in the United States.

Roweler - Social Security
"Someone tell me why zero population growth is bad."

New Deal policies have made an ever growingj population a necessity. The welfare state, like any insurance company, cannot survive unless workers (taxpayers) greatly outnumber recipients. The baby boom generation's retirment will place inordinate strain on the Social Security system, as recipients outnumber the tax payers. Not only that, we will live up to thirty years after retirement, compared to the orignial generation of recipients, few of whom even lived long enough to get that first check. Most of those who did receive benefits were dead within five years.

Nature will eventually take care of the imbalance we have in the human population. It happened in Europe. The black death hit Europe when it was crowded and the large numbers put a strain on the land.
It's not necessary for every generation to replace itself exactly. Look at China. They look to decrease their population, with their one child policy.
Only our welfare and social engineering policies make an increasing population necessary. We need the people to pay the taxes. Skellmeyer and others ignore the fact that an ever increasing population requires more housing (deforestation), more water and more land (less wildlife and fewer undeveloped areas). How do Democrats reconcile their policies that call for open spaces and new illegal voters? What does Al Gore have to say about this?
Unfortunately, the people coming here from Mexico are draining our economy instead of adding to it. The hordes that came in past generations (Irish, Germans, Poles) had no welfare system to hold them up. They were on their own. Maybe churches helped them but everything was voluntary. No government agency did it for them. Bilingual education was not even suggested let alone demanded.
In time, the children of these illegals may become productive citizens, but it will come at a high cost to everyone else.
Skellmeyer is free to pay the price. He obviously has the money. My guess is he employs illegals or benefits in some other way from their presence in the US.

Mexican ID's
After 9-11 the FBI told the 9-11 Commission these ID's are dangerous! Who validates them? The Mexican government!

what MUST be done to save America
I saw a long post here recently on this topic that so impressed me that I copied it; I am sure that the author won't mind my sharing it with you all... some VERY GOOD stuff here:
************************************************
The case of the border guards embodies how grave the crisis is... Dubya arranges for Gonzales to be Attorney General [who orchestrates this egregious border guard show trial persecution] and Sen. Martinez to be head of the RNC... both
part of his APPALLING sell-out of America for personal aggrandizement. See also fellow traitor Sen. Juan McQuisling, who never met an ILLEGAL alien he would not embrace. I am re-posting here one of my recent tomes proposing some solutions:
*************************************************
The Greatest Threat To America--
ILLEGAL Invasion and Quisling Collusion

Dubya should rightfully be impeached for trying to sell out America to the ILLEGAL Alien Invasion-- a SHAMEFUL, EGREGIOUS and WILLFUL violation of his oath of office to defend and protect our borders and preserve the rule of law. Thank goodness some of us managed to rattle the cages of the RINOS in the House before the Senate was able to sell out America with the quisling Kennedy-McCain amnesty legislation.

Perhaps one in 10 residents here is now foreign born if a truly accurate accounting for ILLEGALS were effected. [ILLEGALS account for 28% of our prison felons, or > 3X their % of the whole population of residents.] This is a stunning change from anytime in our long history! Furthermore, it bodes OMINOUSLY AND PERILOUSLY for any semblance of assimilation and harmony. AMERICA WILL DISAPPEAR IF WE DO NOT DEMAND THAT OUR NATIONAL POLS GET WITH THE PROGRAM AND TAKE IMMEDIATE ACTIONS!!! Partly this is because ILLEGALS have NO INTENTION WHATSOEVER of learning English and assimilating. American CITIZENS are
now being assailed as "racist" for having the temerity to want to maintain America as a sovereign nation governed by the rule of law. RIDICULOUS! TRAITOROUS!

***********************************************
WE MUST DO THE FOLLOWING TO SAVE AMERICA FROM SOCIO-ECONOMIC CATACLYSM, CULTURAL SUICIDE, AND THE ARRANT DISSOLUTION OF OUR HERITAGE:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

1)THIS IS-- BY FAR-- THE MOST ESSENTIAL STEP--
REQUIRE ABSOLUTELY a tamper-proof I.D. card for any NON-citizen to WORK, receive public assistance, get licenses, rent apartments, attend college, apply for scholarships, pass go, etc.-- in short, to function while in AMERICA. This
technique would make it MUCH TOUGHER for miscreant employers to break the law and wink at fraudulent docs, AND would cut down on welfare fraud, tax dodging, etc. You make them repatriate to apply for the card, then require a thorough
vetting by US. This destroys the straw man ruse that, "we cannot round up and deport 12 million ILLEGALS"-- they would go home (at least temporarily) to apply for the card at THEIR expense and trouble-- the very same way they got here!!! This will also simultaneously allow us to get a handle on those who overstay their visas, because it will cripple their ability to sustain themselves here to take flying lessons, etc.

2) Build a REAL FENCE ASAP! Yes, it will take time and will not be entirely effective, but it also makes a statement-- ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL! Vicente Fox HATES the idea-- that is a great sign! It helped immensely in San Diego. No shell games, pols! Throw out any bums in office who do not accede to this and all of the following critical steps! The fence does send a clear message that there is NO inherent right to emigrate here and that Americans will not tolerate the reconquista. We are squandering a treasure trove in Iraq-- a tiny fraction of
that would build a REAL wall. When the 'Crats refuse to fund it, hang 'em in effigy!

3) NO PATHS TO AMNESTY WHATSOEVER!!! ILLEGAL aliens can go home and get in line! They will NEVER STOP flooding in if we do not re-establish the rule of law and make ALL immigrants play by the same rules that have worked in the past! This
disingenuous sophistry about America benefiting on balance from the labor of ILLEGALS is a fool's reckoning! They ARE taking good jobs, permeating crimes, drugs, and gangs like a plague of locusts, dodging taxes, decimating already
beleaguered schools, and enervating communities and social services nationwide with "barrio blight." An advanced economy can only benefit from educated, skilled immigrants... we are NOT getting those among the tsunami of great unwashed from the south.

4) English MUST BE OUR OFFICIAL LANGUAGE-- PERIOD!!! No ballots or anything else in ANY other language!!! LEARN OR RETURN! Any advanced nation's socio-economic well-being depends on a common language and culture! Actually, this really also benefits legal immigrants who would otherwise join a permanent underclass. Be
forewarned-- "guest worker" programs have never worked anywhere, anytime! Heritage estimates that EACH undereducated indigent immigrant (even "legal" ones) will cost American taxpayers $100,000 net more in taxes for social services used [which does not include school decimation, crime control, and community erosion expenses] than they contribute over their lifetimes-- once they REALLY pay taxes! Ergo, American CITIZEN TAXPAYERS are paying for corporate welfare to
subsidize miscreant employers as they conspire with ILLEGALS to trample on our laws.

5) Fundamentally reconsider our LEGAL immigration policy. Teddy K. and his ulterior-motivated, one world, PC, open borders, multi-cultural ilk allowed the PC bureaucrats to emphasize "different" immigrants-- did YOU ever vote on
that?!?! Immigration cannot solve (as some lamely opine) the government-engendered crises of Medicare and Social Security, which has been
purloined and squandered to pay for general government waste/pork, in egregious violation of the public trust. In fact, ILLEGALS will only accelerate the demise of these "entitlement" programs; they will be the death knell of S.S. and Medicare.

6) Reinterpret the 14th Amendment as it was intended-- nobody who crashes the border should be able to push out a new citizen! ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL-- PERIOD!!! Prohibit welfare services for ILLEGAL aliens! Much of traditional Welfare is now flowing to ILLEGAL aliens at the expense of citizen taxpayers via this new American "ancor baby" shell game.

Middle America has temporarily derailed the Kennedy-McCain Amnesty Bill sell-out America attempt, but the powers that be are nefariously and surreptitiously waiting for us to doze off to cram down our throats what the strange bedfellow
"conspiracy of evil" wants-- miscreant employers/Big Business; Big Labor; Big Government advocates; the weird, disparate, anti-America, PC, multicultural, open borders, one world ilk; Big Church-- many of those simply trying to sell
failed messages to new takers. Never in my life have I seen such an egregious threat, because ILLEGALS offer different things to disparate-interest users: cheap labor, future voters, and reconquista troops. Once 12-20 million of them get to vote, AMERICA WILL BE LOST... and MANY MORE will follow! The Republicans who want the cheap labor at taxpayer expense are idiots to imagine they can win enough of their votes-- it is myopic political suicide! They will inevitably vote big entitlement government!

TIME IS CRITICAL, folks! It is a red herring PC/leftist and employer business myth that Americans want "comprehensive immigration reform," which is simply code for amnesty, open borders, and resultant perpetual big government. Middle Americans believe that the main reason that "our immigration system is broken" is because our pols have failed to uphold existing laws and protect our border, NOT BECAUSE our immigration policy has been too restrictive.

When Americans are told the REAL levels of recent immigration, both legal and ILLEGAL, fully 68% agree that we should stop ALL IMMIGRATION PERIOD until we prove that we can assimilate them properly and favorably:
http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back906.html

The apologists try to put lipstick on the pig, but Middle America is not buying the artful con from the monied, powerful special interests with ulterior motives inimical to the best destiny for America.

Contact your folks in Congress right here... bookmark it and bark at them often!
Let freedom ring out!

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm
http://www.comments@whitehouse.gov

I know that it is frustrating trying to fight this sacred battle, folks-- the money, organization, and power are on the other side, but WE MUST save America! We will have 60-100 million new undereducated, poor "Americans" in 20 years (Heritage) if we do not demand a change in the prevailing wind in Washington. EACH such person will use $100,000 more in social services than s/he pays in taxes in a lifetime (National Academy of Sciences). That is $10 TRILLION in
deficit taxes paid alone... that does not begin to count the myriad ancillary costs of balkanization, community blight, school decimation, cultural disintegration, crime explosion, etc. Anybody still fathom that, America "needs" their labor?! We MUST wake up and smell the bitter coffee brewing!

ridiculous!!!!

They break the law to get here, but they are hard-working people.

They forge SS cards, but they are hard working people.

They cost Americans billions in healthcare costs, forcing hundreds of hospitals to close, but they are hard-working people.

They send billions of dollars OUT of the US, but they are hard-working people.

Millions of illegal alien children get free education (that American taxpayers provide), but they are hard working.

Hundreds of thousands of illegals are gang members, but they are hard-working people.

Some studies estimate that 25 Americans A DAY die at the hands of illegals, but they are a hard-working people.

Hundreds of thousands of women and children have been sexually assaulted, but they are a hard-working people.

Truthfully, I work with MANY illegal aliens children (I teach) and yes, I like all of them. They are nice kids, and I am glad to know them, but I am certain that illegal immigration is DAMAGING our country, not helping it.


truthserum, add to the list....
The Family Reunification Program Bush so loves. It results in chain migration of millions more immigrants! If the average American knew what the truth was we would have 90% or better standing up to this President and government demanding all illegal aliens be deported, a wall on our borders with armed military, a freeze on all immigration, the end of the FRP, anchor baby garbage and every other intrusion on America! Wake up before it's too late!

Linda: Have Faith in the Free Market
Under the law of supply and demand, wages will rise until there is sufficient demand. Run an ad trying to find attorneys for $9/hour and you might conclude we have a shortage of Attorneys as well.

WE DON'T NEED ANY IMMIGRANTS: Free market will solve the problem. My neighbor earns $35/hour, union scale, delivering potato chips to grocery stores. The day starts early, but guess what, NO SHORTAGE!

If the Chicken factory paid $50/hour they would find no shortage as well. If consumers were unwilling to pay the higher price at KFC, then we didn't need the dead chickens anyway. But if people want KFC they will pay the higher prices.

As president of http://www.programmersguild.org we keep hearing that companies cannot find Americans who want to program computers. But workers with BS degrees and 20 years experience cannot find work, and the industry assured that the "prevailing wage" for H-1b foriegn programmers is set at the 17th percentile of average U.S. wages.

Americans work as cannon fodder in IRAQ
If Bush can find 100,000 Americans willing to be cannon fodder in IRAQ for low pay, certainly a chicken plant can find a few hundred Americans.

No shortage of Americans willing to be policemen is bad neighborhoods.

Compared to those two, I think I'd choose the chicken plant. (And I don't mean to imply that the chicken plant job is a cakewalk - I'm sure it's quite grueling. But do Mexicans have better DNA for grueling work?

Can conservatives shake Racist label?
It is amazing how those who strike the pose of a True Conservative don't understand why, or worse don't care that, they are labeled "Racist," dumped into the trashcan labeled "Kook," collected, and deposited on the ash heap of history.

After the haters killed the California Republican Party with Prop 187 in 1994 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition_187 they moved on to repeat their detestation on a wider scale.

Question is whether non-racist conservatives have more courage than moderate Muslims to soundly reject the nuts that claim to speak in their name?

kim-programmersguild ....
The Security Prosperity Partnership or SPP is not about being fair to American workers. It's about enriching Mexico so it is on the same level as America. Problem is, Mexico hasn't figured out that America will be lowered to a third world level like Mexico instead of Mexico rising to first class nationhood as we are, were, or rapidly falling from! Guess Bush doesn't get it either. Mexico has stated they will settle for nothing less than first class nationhood...at our expense. Americans have to make less and less. That's the only way to level the playing field. Sooner or later we will all be working for $7.00 an hour. That's the whole point of outsourcing and insourcing as well. Level the playing field. Bring Americans down, raise the standard for third world people. Redistribution of wealth! Forced charity! Tax Americans more to support illegal aliens in our country. Pay their bills, pay their living, educate their children, send their kids to college, pay their medical bills, build more federal housing so they can afford to live here. Give them loans for homes, cars and businesses even though they have no credit! To hell with Americans! That's what Bush and the Mexican government are doing to us!

I just read that our government now has a plan to pay for the education of Mexican undergrads in MEXICO! Our own kids can't afford to go to the college they would like to. Many can't afford to go at all. But now American taxpayers will be supporting Mexican nationals LIVING IN MEXICO who want to go to college IN MEXICO!

Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America

Report to Leaders

June 2005

http://www.spp.gov/report_to_leaders/index.asp?dName=report_to_leaders


BUILDING A NORTH AMERICAN COMMUNITY
PDF FILE
http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/NorthAmerica_TF_final.pdf

Do the right thing
I too was in Iraq when I filed the petition for my wife to imigrate to the U.S. She came to the U.S. so we could get married and the next day I left for Iraq. She returned to Germany and waited. I returned from Iraq and she and our 1 year old daughter were there to greet me. She could only stay for 90 days and had to return. For the next year and half she came over for 90 days and returned, several times. Finally after spending close to $1000 for fees related to her immigration she obtained her green card. Getting citizenship for my daughter required obtaining a Report of Birth Abroad, which then allowed her to have citizenship , a social security number and a U.S. passport. The point is we did it all legally. She did'nt swim across the Atlantic to get here. We filed the paperwork and waited. And they were worth the wait.

what is the future??

1) If MILLIONS have entered the US already in the past 10 years, and the government won't enforce the law, what will the US look like in another 20 years?

Will there be 100 million poor Hispanics in our cities and towns? Will our country be able to give jobs for that many poor workers?

Will wages for illegals drop because of the number of workers willing to work for very little? Will companies bother hiring American labor when they can get an illegal to work for next to nothing?

Will this put more Americans on WELFARE? Will we soon have MILLIONS OF ILLEGALS ON WELFARE??

This would be a LIBERAL DREAM? Vote for us, we will raise your welfare, your universal healthcare, and more...and of course, the rest of America will STRAIN under the onerous tax burden that Democrats place on them. Remember, with millions needing WELFARE, liberals will be in power. (Of course, we all know that liberal policies create MORE poverty, not alleviate it, but the ignorant and poor never learn this in liberal schools.)

And what will schools be like with 100 million poor immigrants in them?

I am not against immigration. I am not against Mexico. But one country cannot simply adopt half of another country just because the other country is poor.

Liberals will espouse the "human rights" of the illegal immigrants...which they believe entitles them to enter the country illegally. Well, with that logic, we could not deny the 3 billion other people around the world who are wish they were American. We CAN help the people around the world, but NOT by taking in each and every one.

Frank
Thanks for poking a big hole in Chavez's anecdote - I was certain military service would get priority citizenship consideration.

When WWII began, many Americans valiantly served in many other countries before the US was in it, and those countries were grateful for the service - and gave them every opportunity to stay.

When you're serving with the military, you are assimilating - this is one of our primary complaints about the illegal hoards - they take everything the US has to give but they retain their fidelity to their home nation (primarily Mexico), thus weakening our own national character.

All we're asking is that they come through the FRONT and ask properly, not sneak over the border and then demand attention. That's not how I would enter Mexico nor would they tolerate it.

To All the Law-Abiding Citizens

"They're disrespecting our laws!!..."

"They CHOSE to be here illegally!!..."

"They're breaking the law! No excuses!"

Next time you're out driving your car at or below the speed limit (as I'm certain you must be, law-abiding citizens that you are) I want you all to write down the license plates of everyone who speeds by you and report them to the police! After all:

THEY'RE DISRESPECTING OUR LAWS!

THEY CHOOSE TO BREAK THE SPEED LIMIT!

THEY'RE BREAKING THE LAW! NO EXCUSES!

(Alternatively, you can get a large magic marker and write HYPOCRITE on your forehead. (Can you manage the mirror image thing?))

open borders
liberals are not in charge of america at this time and place. i believe that its that conservative person "bush" isn't it? i will say this though sometimes we deserve what we ask for. for cheap workers, both technically and labor, we have always been willing to import people from other nations, rather than train the poor whites and blacks already born here. i do no want to hear that "pablum" that poor whites and blacks will not work. that is just a bunch of "horse-poop". these third world folks learn all of our secrets and then use them against us.

They Forgot!
In the fight over the border solution there has been one important factor that has been forgotten. The illegal immigrants are fighting to keep the government from closing the border and they don't want to have the government doing background checks. Here is the problem. The illegals are placing their lives at risk! Both democrats and republicans can agree that terrorists have come over the border as well as the typical immigrant. Lets say for example that a terrorist lets off a dirty bomb in L.A. that kills about 2500 people. That bomb is not going to discriminate as to who gets killed. The same people who are fighting the background checks and a closed border are not only risking our lives but their own lives as well! I am always amazed at how stupid people can be.

Highway to hell
Flaming liberal Multiculturalist -- relativist?: "Next time you're out driving your car at or below the speed limit (as I'm certain you must be, law-abiding citizens that you are ........"

And the next time your out there driving as I'm sure you libs are wont to do... remember why there are such laws. Yes, the why usually gets the liberal mindset, like those four way stop signs.

Sadly . . .
The worst part of this situation is that, sadly, although there are many Americans of Mexican
/Hispanic descent who think like and are true Americans, they are either a small percentage or their voices are stifled by the media.

The fact that educated people like Linda Chavez and Reuben Navaratte, who were born in this country, have the gall to blatantly stand up for and defend the disgraceful and illegal behavior of this latest group of immigrants, purely because they share the same heritage, is shocking and worrisome.

If any sort of amnesty goes through, this country in a few decades will consist of two sets of people - unassimilated Hispanics and everyone else. Exactly what sane immigration policies have always tried to guard against.
Goodbye "melting pot" America.


Immigrants
Please stop referring to illegal aliens as immigrants. I know many immigrants and they respect this country, it's laws, it's history and traditions. They have done it the right way by complying with our existing "path to citizenship". I know one man who spent 7 years in refugee camps in southeast asia waiting for a visa. He is now a proud American, speaks English, changed his name to Henry and named his son Harry. His dream of becoming an "American" took many years, much hardship and considerable expense. It is slap in the face of all who have done it the right way to give a pass to those who have violated our borders and laws.

They'll fool us twice...shame on us
"If any sort of amnesty goes through, this country in a few decades will consist of two sets of people - unassimilated Hispanics and everyone else. Exactly what sane immigration policies have always tried to guard against.
Goodbye "melting pot" America."

A lot of people made this same argument in the 1980s and were denounced as racists. We've had twenty years of this and the same argument is being made this time, too. Nothing has changed.

Virginia Patriot
Illegal alien or illegal immigrant is the proper term by law. Either way the person is illegal. Yes, it is a shame that immigrants who came here legally may feel some sting when they hear illegal immigrant but that's a small price to pay for being allowed to come here and become an American. Those here legally should be coming together as a force against illegal immigrants showing our government and all of America what our immigration laws were meant to produce. There is an organization they can join to make their voices heard. They owe America that much.

OTHER DAMAGE, COLLATERAL
SO YOU COME HOME TO FIND YOUR WIFE AND CHILD MURDERED AND RAPED BY SOME ILLEGAL WHO IS DISCOVERED TO HAVE A MAJOR CRIMINAL RECORD, DRUG SMUGGLING AN ACTIVE COYOTE, FALSE ID'S UP THE GAZOO AND TO TOP IT ALL OFF HE HAS CLAP, GONAHRREA AND CRABS. KIND OF MAKES YOU ALL MUSHY INSIDE DON'T IT?

SO YOU CAN'T FEED YOUR WIFE AND KID AND THE GOVERNMENT SAYS THEY CANNOT GIVE YOU A DIME BECAUSE THAT ILLEGAL OVER THERE NEEDS IT MORE THAN YOU AND HE'S GOING TO GET YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY BEFORE HE'S FIFTY-NINE AND A HALF, THEN SCOOT OFF TO MEXICO TO AVOID THE TAXES.

THE PUBLIC SCHOOL YOU PAY TO SUPPORT SPEAKS NO ENGLISH EVEN THOUGH IT'S LOCATED IN LA AND YOUR KID CANNOT GO THERE BECAUSE SHE EXHIBITS NO HISPANIC TENDENCIES AND DOESN'T SPEAK A WORD OF SPANISH OR ISLAMIC. LET'S NOT FORGET PRAYER TIME AND DITCH THAT CROSS. REMMEBER HOW GOOD YOU FEEL WHEN AT TAX TIME THOSE SCHOOL BONDS YOU VOTE FOR DON'T DO A THING FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY. BEST YOU KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT AND EAT YOUR CHILI.

YES INDEED THAT COLLERAL DAMAGE DOES SEEM TO WORK BOTH WAYS. THANK YOU LINDA FOR REMINDING ME OF HOW LUCKY WE ARE IN THIS COUNTRY TO HAVE THOSE ILLEGALS FIGHTING IN OUR WAR ON TERROR.

Words Matter
If we are seen as anti-immigrant, we will lose, because everyone knows some or is one or two generations removed and generally Americans have been a welcoming people. We just want people to respect us, our country, our culture, our language and our laws. Illegal alien is the legal status of a citizen of another country who is here without documentation. It is illegal aliens not immigrants who are creating a problem. Immigrants get visas before entering. Illegal aliens prefer the term "migrant", but do not have an open-ended right to migrate from their countries to ours. The debate must center on the willful disregard for the laws of this country.

Virginia Patriot, are you saying
there's a difference between illegal alien and illegal immigrant? They are both citizens of another country entering America illegally. The play on words is a waste of time.

They're Not Really People, are They
Yes, ONTIME, they're all Murdering Rapists Coyotes (I guess they all paid themselves to smuggle themselves??) infected with Clap, Gonarrhea & Crabs (an extensive network of border checkpoints ensures all three infections are present). AND THEY ALL WEAR THOSE FUNNY WIDE-BRIM HATS!

Yes, Lydia, they aren't people, they're BARBARIANS! (BTW, how are you coming along saving all those unicellular Human Beings?)

RealAmerican
I'm saying illegal aliens are not immigrants. Immigrants seek our permission first by applying for a visa. They keep their documents in order and comply with our laws. Illegal aliens do not. They sneak across the border and acquire fraudulent I.D. The left and media know that most Americans are predisposed to favor legal immigration, or at least it is what most would say publicly in our P.C. times. By purposely confusing illegal aliens with(legal)immigrants (really the only kind), the open borders crowd hope to marginalize those of us who are speaking out against amnesty as being xenophobic, nativist, racist, restrictionist, anti-immigrant bigots. I am not any of those. I am an American citizen whose citizenship means something to him. I like immigrants. I know people from all over the world. I am totally opposed to illegal aliens, regardless of where they are from. I am for retaining our rule of law and sovereignty. We will lose this fight like we lost in 1986 if aren't clear in our language and stick to the facts.

if we aren't clear(doh)
hate when i leave out a whole word.

Virginia Patriot
You make very good points. I'm with you 100%. Thanks for taking the time to explain. I know many immigrants also and yes I respect them for going the legal route. I do wish more of them would speak up against illegal aliens who want to claim the same rights legal immigrants have earned by honoring our laws and following the rules.

youdontspeakforme.org
there are many hispanics/immigrants who are speaking out, unfortunately the MSM doesn't cover them. They only want to do the Linda Chavez propaganda type stories (Lou Dobbs excepted).

Dear Linda,
It would be easy to just dismiss you as a fool or in need of copy to stay up with your contract here, or just call you a fool and leave, but.

Here is your last chance of reason.

Find the book,,"Apache" by Will Levinton Comfort Its the life and times of my great, great, great grandfather the Apache Chief Mangus Colorados, aka "blood on sleeve". He fought and died in the first "unlimited illegal immigration" of Spanish/Mexican's in the soutwest of now America.

He and his and other Apache tribes were subject to the boot of the Spanish/Mexican and later Americans for their land, their gold. The price came to be $2.00 each for a set of ears, men, women and children. Paid for with gold they stole. After a long life of fighting Mangus had the "hot iron" put to his 85 year old feet to advise him to fight or run and be shot in the back, he too chose to fight and die, so will his great, great, great, grandson, vietnam vet, Sandia Lab reserch person and one who has a S.O.G. card and a 1-0 in the woods past.

Read it if you dare, my guess you do not allow facts to ruin your lies and fraud.

Immigration

Can I flag the whole article as offensive?

Gee, that is exactly the same procedure that applies to legal people who want to come in and who are married to Americans. It is stupid, but it can take forever. Destroying the rule of law by giving law breakers amnesty won't help.

On the labor front, if there is a shortage, bring in the legal people who have been waiting. But at the meat packing plant they raided, Americans line up and took all the jobs, when the anti rule of law crowd predicted labor shortage. And the crops got in in Idaho and Colorado with an innovative program with the the prisions, a real win win for Americans. In California, when no on has caved into the famers blackmail demands for more cheap labor subsized by the American middle class, they started talking about using robotics.

We don't need these 12 million law breakers who disrespect our country, who drive without insurance or a license, and who steal our social security and government benefits.

And the La Raza crowd is racist to the core. Their motto " Everything for our race, nothing for others". You hear the racial insults they were making to Americans and spitting on Americans who are for the rule of law? In their march they are claiming they own the western united states, Aztlan, and are going to kick the Amerians out. Nice and friendly, considering we are subsidizing each one to the tune of $30,000 per year. Of course flying the Mexican flag above the USA one was cute, as was urinating on the USA flag and buringing it.

Time for these people to go back to their own country.



immigration reform
Linda, you're one of the view commentators who has true perception. i.e., the problem is Congress hasn't created a "doorway" sufficiently large to accomodate the economy's needs for workers. Most commentators focus on the consequences of Congress's inaction. You're right on health care reform also. keep it coming!
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