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Thursday, May 10, 2007
Laura Hollis :: Townhall.com Columnist
A Lesson for the Left about Medicine, Money and Motherhood
by Laura Hollis
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As Mother’s Day approaches, I am thinking about an invitation I received recently to view a film called “The Motherhood Manifesto” at a local library. “Bring something yummy and come hear about the policies that make it so hard to be a mom these days!” the invitation read cheerfully.

The word “manifesto” in the title sent up red flags for me. But, curious, I went to the host website – www.momsrising.org – to see what the components of the “manifesto” are. Cleverly, the website’s authors have used “MOTHER” as an acronym for their demands: M = (paid) Maternity and paternity leave. O = Open, flexible work. T = TV and afterschool programs. H = Healthcare for all kids. E = Excellent childcare. R = Realistic and fair wages.

“Manifesto” is the word for it, all right. Karl Marx would be proud. Virtually everything on the site advocates government regulation of business, and taxpayer-funded social services. The site is filled with supporting factoids about how many school-age children are home alone each afternoon (14 million!), the need for government censorship of the (40,000) TV commercials children see each year, and Canada’s allegedly wonderful health care system.

This initiative, like so many touted as women-driven and mother-centric, betrays the Left’s complete lack of understanding of – or utter disregard for -- basic economics. As long as some public policy pronouncement is “for the children” or accompanied by a compelling story of a family’s struggle or financial hardship, we’re supposed to be all for it, even if it bloats the government or brings the economy to the brink of collapse.

As one who worked in Detroit in the 1990s during the Clintons’ (happily) failed attempt to nationalize health care, I can attest that Canada's system is hardly the model plan that MomsRising.org seems to think it is. In Michigan, we saw the Canadians come across the border to avoid months waiting for necessary surgery, for a choice of doctors, or to obtain America’s better medical research. Canada's system is a failure for the same reason the United Kingdom's is a failure: when people perceive that something is "free" (because the costs are hidden to them), they use much more of it than they would if they had to pay for it.

A so-called “single-payer” (read: government-provided) health care system paid for in this country by tax dollars would collapse in an astonishingly short time. You need only look at the medical malpractice crisis. In the 1980s, we began to see multi-million-dollar jury verdicts in questionable cases (where malpractice was unclear or even unproven) because the jury knew that an insurance policy would pay the verdict. But this drove the premiums up to the point that doctors could not - and cannot - afford them.

Physicians will not stay in specialties where the insurance premiums are over $100,000 per year, as is often the case now in high-risk practices like obstetrics and neurosurgery. Doctors cannot pass the costs of those premiums on to patients in the form of fees, because patients cannot pay them, and Medicare and Medicaid will not pay them. Nor will HMOs or PPOs, all of whom have fixed prices for what they will pay. So the doctors close their doors.

My point is that while there is much wailing and moaning about prices, no one pays any attention to costs. You can clamor all you want to fix or control or cap prices, but the costs are what they are - and once the price is less than the cost, the business or practice is gone. (Unless, of course, you are going to have the government order people to stay in business, and it is not difficult to imagine the catastrophically poor care that we would get with people forced to stay in medical practice.)

The MomsRising site is just as wrongheaded in its complaints about the lack of "fair wages," for women. When wages are adjusted for time that mothers spend out of the work force at home with their children, women in the same jobs make dollar for dollar what men do. (See Steven Chapman and Thomas Sowell's writings.)

In my field – law - , for example, many women take time off to be at home with their babies. Some step off partnership track altogether. Some do part-time or flex-time while their children are young, and take longer to make partner. These are all great options. But if a woman chooses to go up for partnership in 10 years rather than seven, it is manifestly unfair to the man (or woman, for that matter) who went up for partnership three years earlier, to demand to be paid as much as they are. MomsRising calls this income disparity “the mommy tax,” as if a woman should be paid despite the fact that she wasn’t there doing the work.

And MomsRising’s economic prescriptions for lower income women - women who don't make enough in their jobs to pay for someone else to take care of their children while they work - make even less sense. If you make less than $25,000 per year (as MomsRising claims is true of one-quarter of families with children under six), then how is it logical to pay someone else between $4000 and $10,000 per year per child (another MomsRising statistic)? Wouldn’t it make more sense to stay home and take care of your children yourself?

Oh, no. MomsRising demands that lower-income women be paid more, in order to afford childcare that they admit is already inadequate and too expensive. And they want the child care to be "excellent" (which will make it even more expensive). Oh, and by the way, someone else should pay for it.

The economics on the MomsRising site is atrocious; the conclusions counterintuitive. But perhaps that’s the point. Indeed, the larger question in my mind as I reviewed the site, was: Where in any of this is the ‘mothering’?

Witness a sample "tidbit" from the MomsRising.org website:

"A recent study found a widespread scarcity of quality, affordable infant-toddler child care in all communities."

In truth, there is NO shortage of quality, affordable infant and toddler care in any community - it's called "parents."

All of MomsRising’s economically untenable prescriptions are supposed to be motivated by our recognition that motherhood is terribly important. I personally think that motherhood is the most important profession, and our culture doesn't even give lip service to it anymore. But as a mother, I also think we do a terrible disservice to our children by farming them out all day long. More to the point, it's pathologically hypocritical to claim some moral high ground for motherhood while advocating ad nauseum for policies favoring mothers who are everywhere except with their children.

Very little at MomsRising.org celebrates being a mother. What it does attempt to do is use having a baby as a moral bludgeon to trumpet for government control over childrearing. I cannot think of anything worse. It is no substitute for mothering (or parenting in general), psychologically and emotionally catastrophic for children, and economically disastrous for the country.

There are plenty of things that make it harder to be a mom these days than in the past – easy divorce, the pervasiveness of pornographic sexuality directed at children, and our culture’s antagonism towards women who choose to raise their own children (witness Linda Hirshman’s infamous insults), for starters. But government’s failure to control television commercials, mandate higher wages for sales clerks, or provide infant-to-college child care isn’t among them.

If MomsRising.org is any indication, a real appreciation for mothering in the United States is falling, not rising. None of this should surprise me, however. The Left’s concept of “motherhood” seems to consist largely of women’s constitutional “right” to destroy their own offspring, and to demand that everyone else pay to raise their children if they deign to have them.

This Mother’s Day, I am offering special thanks to all the mothers – and fathers – who understand the value of real parenting – and the price we all pay when we don’t.

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About The Author

Laura Hirschfeld Hollis is a Clinical Professor of Business Administration at the University of Illinois.

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Never would I even visit
a women's site that starts out with "bring something yummy."


Here in Kanukistan
The mere breathing of the sentiments espoused in this excellent article would bring a screaming torrent of abuse, the most polite of which would be "Anti Family! Anti Child!"

When I recently denied that, um, hoochie scum should be encouraged to have babies they can't support and don't want to look after, the response was "You just don't think children are a blessing, do you?"

I said that I believe my Ferrari Dino is a blessing, but that doesn't mean that everybody who can't afford one should apply to me for the funds.

Like you, I am sick of being bludgeoned with TheChildren. I looked after my own children and I sweated darned hard to do it. If you want children, Mom, "rise" up and look after yours.

announcement
I am reading 'Atlas Shrugged' for the first time in about 15 years.

It's a little scary - They just passed the Equalization of Opportunity Bill (probably in response to the success of the John Galt Line on Rearden Metal) and, well, you oughta read it.

1 more thing
If they were ever to make a movie of 'Atlas Shrugged' (never happen) I could name any one of a number of actors who could play parts like wesley mouch, claude slagenhop, (great name!) and people like that - Sean Penn would be brilliant in any one of a number of parts and he probably wouldn't even realize what a gafiltefish he was, but I for the life of me can't think of anyone for Dagny Taggart or Hank Rearden or john Galt.

That's kinda sad.

atlas shrugged role
I think that Leo Dicaprio would be great for Galt, did you see The Aviator? Who cares that he's a tool of Al Gore, he played Randian hero Howard Hughes brilliantly.

Uncle Max
Wouldn't Ann Coulter have to branch out from her current line of work to play Dagny Taggart?

I'm afraid I don't have suggestions for Hank Rearden or John Galt. (Can't see DiCaprio there. He and Depp and Pitt remind me of exotic fish more than anything else.)

But "they" said the Lord of the Rings trilogy was unfilmable too. You never know.

movie of "Atlas Shrugged"
What ever became of the movie production of "Atlas Shrugged" that was reportedly in the works last fall? Angelina Jolie would have the role of Dagny Taggart; I do not know who is John Galt in that cast.

Daycare Myth/ motherhood vs. mothering
After high school I worked for 2 years in very high quality daycare. I was always amazed at these women griping about poor pay for women, and the cost of daycare, when most daycare workers barely make more than minimum wage. These same women would cry "Foul!" if someone tried to pay them for their work what they were paying someone else to work for them. High quality is a relative term. NOTHING even comes close to warm, responsive, loving mommy- not even close.

We need to talk about motherhood in the same terms we talk about fatherhood. These women will usually readily acknowledge that being a father only requires insemination-an act that takes mere moments. Fathering is an expectation of men to actively and regularly participate in the rearing of their children.

Motherhood requires a 9 month gestation and delivery or participating in the adoption process. Mothering is personally and actively meeting the needs of the children on a moment by moment basis. Dumping a child with a childcare provider isn't mothering.

Women need to be smarter sooner. If they plan conceptions for marriage and make financial decisions based on one income, even if there are two incomes before the children are born, much of this will not be an issue. Oh yes, they have to choose male companionship based on character not adrenaline and wishful thinking, because if they did their lives and their children's lives would be so much better.




Hobby children
(Sarcasm alert) The columnist fails to take into account all the many professional women (and their husbands/ live-in friends/ sperm donors) who just wanted to have a child for the experience, like taking up SCUBA diving or trekking in Nepal. It's only fair that the government provide day care -- where in life do you see men falling behind in the pay scale because their hobbies are too demanding?

Gender Gapping Merrily Along
On my blog (beloved by many, not beloved by some) and reachable by clicking on name above, I talked about the "gender gap" in pay, and I made many heretical points. Some people threw unripe tomatoes at me -- actually, I would have preferred over-ripe. Come and scroll down to "Perception is Reality," and don't forget to bring your tomatoes.

steve maloney

It has come to pass . . .
When I was a kid (in a galaxy long, long ago and far, far away) we children were regaled with tales of the horrors of the Soviet Union where children were snatched from their parents and forced to be in government schools and daycare every day. This was, of course, proof that the state hated children and wouldn't even let them be with their mothers. We also heard the horror stories about how the children were brainwashed into being little tools of the state and ratting out their parents - it wasn't like the parents were required to care for the children - and perhaps having them thrown into the gulags. So here we are in the U.S. voluntarily sending our children off to the state-run schools and trying to convince ourselves it's in the childrens' best interest. Wasn't then, isn't now.

To Mr Right
This may come as a shock, but state-run schools are not a recent invention of the political left. As each American colony became a state, it legislated free public education. The reason? So that all citizens would be able to read the Bible. "Bible literacy" was the reason. If you don't believe me, look it up.

The Bigger Lies are Better School
Sometimes when I read articles like this I wonder if anybody believes them.

The funny thing is that the author has a point to make about free market principals. It is a strong argument and with this audience it likely to be an easy sell. So, why does she resort do such transparent lies to pad her arguments?

I lived in London for two years and got the best health care of my life. Unlike in the states where I paid fortune for health insurance, the doctors always treated me like a person not an income stream. They always saw me within ten minutes of my appointment time. They always answered all my questions before leaving. They were honest and forthright about the limits of what they provide.

I have recurring sinus infections. I had developed a habit of going to a doctor because antibiotics require a prescription here. After the second time I saw the doctor for this concern, she said don't come back for this, go to the chemist and get some antibiotics. Expensive doctor's time saved.

The unstated but implied lie in the article is that there are waiting lists in Canada and Britain , but there aren't any here.

My wife is on one right now. You may not care about her because she is just a working childless woman. But she badly needs to be seen by a therapist. Luckily in California there is a free service and she is at least on a waiting list. The wait is one year. Again, this may not pull on your heart strings, but is worth noting that the waiting period for guns like the ones Cho used is short (I think three days max). So if you are schizophrenic and hearing demonic voices telling you to go shoot up some public place, are you going to hold out for a year to get help, or are you going to wait three days at the pawn shop and go out in burst of firey glory? (Of course the vast majority hold or manage to get committed at the last moment. But it is something to think about the next time you are at a mall or college. Is that kid just drunk, or is he one of untreated seriously mentally ill.

Just a shout out to the mentally ill. The vast majority are non-violent. In fact the mentally ill are much more likly to be victims of violent crime than perpetrators (see I am honest about the wholes in my arguments.)


But then there are waiting lists that might be more madding for you. I am just a crazy leftie on disability, but I get to see my psychologist once a week and my psychiatrist once a month. I don't even have to go out to get my meds, they're mailed right to me. I have a service dog who comforts me if I am feeling psychotic. A big shout out to the tax payers. Class act all the way. Believe it or not I really think of you every time I take my meds. I doubt Cho would have gone on a killing spree if he had my doctor, my wonderful dog, and had been on his meds.

But, while I am just reaping the benefits of having paid into Social Security and am getting treated royally for it, our brave service men are not as lucky.

Some have to wait months for treatment. It is often at VA hospitals far from where they lived. There was a tragic case of one vet who repeatedly tried to get help before he hanged himself. But the real problem are those less dramatic examples. Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome is a real thing. They may have called it shell shock during WWI but they knew what it was. Even then it was widely known that the best treatment was immediate, starting right in the trenches and following up during the first months home. It costs a lot of money, sure but when balanced against the possibility of life time disability and the incumbent government paid benefits it's a bargain.

We all talk about how the soldiers are heros now, but will you remember it when you see them lying in the street, filthy, smelly, alcohol drenched , and muttering incoherently but vaguely threateningly? Some men are made hero's by war like the first George Bush, John McCain, and Bob Dole. Some of them are destroyed by it. We could reduce this number significantly by early treatment, but we don't.

The other class of people you might think about when you think of the wonders of private health insurance are those who are denied cheap treatments and then cost the system huge amounts of money.

My mother was a social worker in Mississippi, there was a child whose parents were to "rich" for medicaid but had no health insurance. The child needed a 10 000 for a ear operation to prevent him from going deaf. Though the social workers tried everything they couldn't find the money in time. He went permanently deaf. Actually going deaf is not the worst thing in the world. The Deaf community have a vibrant culture and a beautiful language. Many don't even consider themselves disabled. But, the average cost to the government of providing services to a deaf person runs about one million dollars. Thus the free market cost the government well over nine hundred thousand dollars (which could have gone to an awful lot of treatment for wounded vets)

The reality is that the health insurance market isn't a real market at all. If the health insurance company denies a treatment to a patient and then that patient spends the rest of their life on disability, or even worse in a government sponsored nursing home, it's no skin off their back because they aren't paying for it, the government is.

One bright idea of some insurance company bean counter was to quit paying for circumcisions. Depending on your point of view they are deeply religious symbol of a males commitment to God, a moderately expensive piece of vanity plastic surgery, or genital mutilation.

The one hard reality though is that circumcision vastly reduces the spread of AIDs. Long after this was known insurance companies still refused to pay for circumcision. 18 years later the company might be selling lawnmowers there is absolutely no market pressure to reduce cost that far in the future, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. What do they care what happens then. But the cost to the government has been HUGE.


There are free market arguments to be made for health care, but you don't make them more convincing by pretending that waiting lists don't exist here, or that free markets will just naturally fix things by themselves.

As for your argument that poor mothers should just save money by staying at home. There is no point in arguing someone once they have gone off to fluffy fluffy Marie Antoinette mode. When the revolution comes, I'd hope that this column has disappeared into some internet twilight zone.

Atlas Shrugged
I've heard a lot about this book recently. Sounds like I ought to read it, but (strangely enough) the book collections at Bagram incline strongly towards romance novels and adventure.

Anyone have an old copy? Or an old copy of 1984 (haven't read that since high school in, um, 1986)?
If you know of one that could be spared, maybe you might send it to:

36th Engineer Brigade
Bagram AFB
APO AE 09354

Sorry to go a-beggin'... I'll make sure any senders get some nice (unclassified) photos of the countryside and the guys.

Tali2long
If you'll go to my blog and leave a comment I'll provide my e-mail address to you and we'll git 'er done. I'll be glad to send along any books you'd like.

Atlas Shrugged Movie News
The Objectivist Center has the latest on the movie (September 2006).

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-13-1777-Jolie_bags_the_game.aspx

What would have been interesting for this article would have beena comparison of the old Soviet Union and how well they did for this "Motherhood Manifesto". I suspect that it would be similar to the "bread lines" they had for shopping.

In response to AudiR10
Thank you! I will certainly do that.

Militant Leftist
I think you've completely missed the point that the VA hospitals you so disdain are EXACTLY what we all have to look forward to with government provided healthcare.

The only hole I see in Ms. Hollis' article is her admonition for women making too little to pay for daycare to stay home and care for their children themselves. It's a good thought, but I'm betting the chances are very low those women have a husband or any other form of outside support, and we've restricted welfare so it's not a lifelong payout anymore. Better advice would be to educate themselves to get a better job. The programs are out there - I've worked with a few programs attempting to transition people from welfare to work. Sadly, they aren't very successful - convincing people of the value even of showing up on time and clean is harder than you might think.

Steve
I checked out your article on Perception is Reality and made a post there for your viewing pleasure, I hope you can respond.

Dear Militant
1. Your stories prove many of my points. Your health care insurance is outrageously expensive because (in part) of jury verdicts that rape the proceeds to pay for specious claims.

2. Being able to get prescription drugs from a pharmacy WITHOUT going to the doctor is a function of LESS government regulation, not MORE. I would agree that that might be a good thing - but then do the pharmacies step up to the litigation plate instead of the doctors? (And speaking as one who just suffered a severe reaction to an antibiotic last month, they are not without their risks.)

3. If I didn't say there aren't waiting lists here, then you can't accuse me of not saying it, and refer to my not saying it as a lie. I didn't say there aren't waiting lists here. There ae. And I'm glad your care was excellent in London. But there are plenty of stories about people waiting for heavy-duty surgeries, in England, and in Canada. And even more about how the governments are going to continue to PAY for everyone's care. And that was the larger part of the piece.

4. As for the mentally ill, many are victims of the "de-institutionalization" policy that was instituted two decades ago. Nor is that any panacea. Would you prefer that we simply commit people? There are lots of cries of "why wasn't something done?" at Virginia Tech? Because Cho - like everyone else - has rights. Other than behaving strangely and writing things that weirded people out, he had done nothing to be incarcerated. Try teaching on a college campus for a few years, and see how many people fit that description. Are we going to lock them all up? Unlike you, Cho wouldn't GO to see anyone for treatment. What do you do in those instances?

5. I also agree with you that veterans should receive better care generally. They have served their country, and many - as you poignantly note - are not the better for it physically or mentally thereafter.

6. You are also correct that the health insurance market is not "free." Nor are pharmaceuticals. Nor is the petroleum industry. That is a function of government regulations and restrictions and costs. (Who can enter an industry where it costs $800 million to $1 billion to bring one product to market?) But none of this negates my larger points - that government regulation capping prices (or, more accurately, limiting what will be paid) does not cap COSTS. My obstetrician showed me what she is charged to administer one ultrasound (machine time, operator salary, etc.). The she showed me what she is paid for it - not only by Medicare, but by private insurers. It is not enough to cover the cost. She eats that. She can only do that so long before she goes out of business.

7. You make a powerful argument for preventative care over catastrophic care. I agree with you wholeheartedly. But this is as much a cultural problem as an institutionalized medical one. Americans, in general, prefer not to take care of themselves, and then go get prescription medications and surgery to fix problems. Classic examples (and ones that cost billions each year) include: weight loss, eating properly (read: LESS), exercise and not smoking. These things along would cause precipitous drops in the cases of high blood pressure, heart disease, type 2 diabetes, lung cancer, colon cancer and Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease. If people - and yes, their caregivers - would take preventative holistic steps to improve their health, it would save taxpayers tens of millions of dollars. MORE importantly, it would create a much better quality of life for the people themselves and those they love.

What's interesting about your post is that the very problems that plague the major corporations you decry (BIG Pharma, BIG insurance) are caused by their size and the fact that there are, therefore, so few of them: bloat, corruption, inflated costs and pricing, bureacracy, insensitivity to people's needs, lack of accountability. I AGREE. Now - what do you think it will be like when the government is the ONLY provider? Is government more responsive, nimbler, less corrupt, less bloated? Of course not. The problems you complain of will be WORSE, not better.

I'm no shill for corporations. My point is that when they become as BIG as governments, they often become as POOR as government is at providing what people need.

8. The revolution is HERE. NOW. Every year, now, I receive e-mail notifications from the college counseling offices that ever-increasing numbers of students are arriving on campus with histories of depression, on prescription drugs (including psychotropic ones), with eating disorders, under suicide watches, with substance abuse problems (yes, BEFORE they get to college). Why is that? It wasn't the case when I was in college 20 years ago (in the 1980s folks, not the 1950s). I think it is related to another trend, as reflected by a situation presented to me by a colleague at another midwestern university. He told me that their female enrollment was plummetting in the sciences and business. When I asked if he knew why, he said, "Oh yes - we've polled the students. And the overwhelming answer is that their mothers all worked outside the home when they were young, and they do not want the same situation for their children. They are foregoing 'high-powered' careers in favor of ones that are more conducive to being home with their children."

It ain't fluffy Marie Antoinette land, pal. We are destroying our children by depriving them of their primary source of emotional and psychological stability - parents (and probably, particularly mothers) at home. They are telling us that - and we are ignoring them. And we do so at our peril. Low-income mothers who have to work to feed their children are one thing. But that's not the criticism of our culture that I'm levelling, and you know it. How much of that is caused by out-of-wedlock birth? Or the easy divorce that I DO complain of? Or a court system that allows men to father children and then walk away? I don't come out in favor of any of that.

My column - and the sentiments behind it - are not going to disappear, because it is the younger generation that is driving it. They are the ones desperate for parental attention, and, not getting it, seeking recourse in drinking, drugs, promiscuous sexuality and other destructive behaviors. They are the ones shooting up high schools and college campuses. They are the ones who won't be able to retire on Social Security (nice that you get yours), or afford any number of the other things your (and my) generation takes for granted. So if you don't like what I say, don't shoot the messenger.

hmmm
Part of the reason married mom's have to work and not stay home with the kids is the taxes we have to pay (also femminism making motherhood sound like exploitation)
We can use "national health care" or socialized medicine in conjuction with lawyers to prevent it from happening. If we can have socialized medicine like England, why not have socialized attorneys or "soliciters" like they have in England? All lawyers work for the government and are free to the public. Think the attorneys would fight that one?

Militant Leftist
"Luckily in California there is a free service and she is at least on a waiting list. The wait is one year."

This free service wouldn't, by any chance, be provided by the taxpayers, would it? If so, I believe that is the reason for the waiting list.

My father immigrated here from Canada. His aunt was on a waiting list for heart surgery; unfortunately, the wait was longer than she had and she died. In Canada today it is quicker to get an MRI for your pet than it is for your child. Hospitals rent their MRI machines out to veterinarians because people pay out of pocket for their pet's care.

Suggesting that mothers stay home and nurture their children themselves is unrealistic? My children have never seen the inside of a day care facility. This is not by luck, but by choice. My husband (yes, I have one of those pesky things) and I knew what was best for them and planned accordingly. Why is that unrealistic? Why do people bother having kids if they are not going to take the responsibility for them?

giant contradiction
the republican party and conservatives in general have no crediblilty on this issue.

on one hand they hate welfare mothers who stay home with their kids.
"let em starve" because they made bad decisions is the general attitude i run across.
"put em to work" if they want help.

but for the wealthy republicans a "working mother" is a sinful neglect of your children.

which is it.
if you are poor its better to work than stay home but if you are rich it is better to stay home than work.

hypocrisy thy name is republican

Dear religiouslib...
... I like your points!

religiouslib
The giant major premise you missed (clearly they don't teach logic, in addition to not teaching spelling, punctuation or grammar) at the school you attend) is that Welfare Mothers are expecting to "stay home and nurture their children" AT THE EXPENSE OF SOMEONE ELSE WHO HAS TO BE ROBBED TO PROVIDE THE MONEY. Wealthy women stay home and nurture their children AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE or at that of the father of those children.

So the answer to your question: "Which is it?" (sentence, note capitalization and punctuation) is:

If you have children, you are responsible for their feeding, clothing, housing, education, transportation, entertainment, and discipline. If you cannot pay for these things, you must go to work and your children must either fend for themselves or be cared for by strangers. Therefore, before you have children, consider who will nurture and care for them, and who will support them.

HINT: The answer is not THE TAXPAYER, nor is it "SOMEBODY." The answer is YOU.

audi r10
see this country was founded on two separate but co-dependent ideas.

the individual as king but the community as support.

look at the old west.

individualism was admired and encouraged but how did a community get schools and churches.

everybody chipped in with money or labor to build the church and school and hire the minister and teacher.

even barn raisings were community based.

as a Christian and an american i find your attitude that single mothers are doomed to have their children raised poorly because of reasons they may or may not have control over very disturbing.

no one steals from you, we have come up with a similar system to the old west.
the community has to pay for schools, fire protection and roads and such.

but you say, not those deadbeat, baby making mothers.
well you don't know their circumstances you assume alot.

its all about you as far as you are concerned but children raised without proper supervision, education and health care, become a BIGGER problem down the road.

maybe what you see as stealing is actually an investment.

Laura, I almost missed this
column. I am glad I went back to read it. When my first child was born in 1984, I could not bear to leave him with a stranger. So my husband and I made the decision that I would stay home.
We had a second child 8 years later and I have never looked back. I did work some part-time evenings) for many years when my husband could be home with the kids, but I certainly did not make much money to add to our budget. Staying home meant giving up the $250,000 home, two new cars in the garage, new furniture (or new anything unless it was interest free payments for a year and even then only one big item at a time), big screen television, no computer until older son in middle school (gasp!), upscale clothes, etc. My husband makes a good living in his profession (for which I am extremely thankful) but there were still times we had to scrimp to pay certain bills on time or meet unexpected bills. Be that as it may, there are simply NO regrets. Seeing my children grow to young adults was worth every minute. I treasure the memories of spending time with them and nurturing their minds and bodies from infancy on. For parents who are able to allow one parent to stay home with their children I say, go for it. Groups such as the one you spoke about do more harm than help to parents everywhere. AudioR10 said it best,
"If you have children, you are responsible for their feeding, clothing, housing, education, transportation, entertainment, and discipline. If you cannot pay for these things, you must go to work and your children must either fend for themselves or be cared for by strangers. Therefore, before you have children, consider who will nurture and care for them, and who will support them."


Regarding college age kids on medications...I do believe that may be one reflection of our current culture which advertises and medicates for every conceivable condition (and vaccinates for every coneivable disease real or imaginable.) People are led to believe that they need these drugs to cope with real life. I am not saying there are times medications are necessary, just saying that they are handed out like candy. Maybe a parent at home to listen to their kids unload about school, friends, have their friends over to a house in which a parent is actually present, etc. would help much more than a pill.

Lastly, Shiela...so nice to see you post again!
Last time we met over on Matt Barber's column and I am happy to see you are still on TH posts.

To Laura Hollis
If people "can get prescription drugs from the pharmacy without a prescription" as you appear to suggest then these are by definition not prescription drugs but over-the-counter drugs sold at consumer discretion, as aspirin and vitamins are sold now. My question to you is, how is the average person supposed to know what drug he needs to buy over that counter? 1) Ask the pharmacist? (In which case the pharmacists is practicing medicine and quite probably will not have examined the patient or seen test results) 2) Get advice from friends and neighbors? 3) Respond to TV commercials for drugs? 4) Study up on the Internet?

Yes, we do have pesky government rules that only a physician who has gone to medical school, served a residency, and passed state licensure exams is qualified to prescribe these drugs. Why do you think that might be?

lilly
Laura was responding to militant's defense of "chemists" dispensing antibiotics in the UK, and actually, raised the question you are trying to ask her. She points out that it does equate to less regulation, ( a good thing ), but then asks if the pharmacist is prepared to step up to the litigation responsibility. I don't know why I bother to explain it to you, since you can't be bothered to even read the thread accurately.

killjoy
The Great Society and the ideology that inspired it was a killjoy.

"Lunk head we need a Great Society.

"How will we fund it Sir. And how are we going to fight the Communists? And Vietnam Sir, how are we going to do that?"

"Labor is expensive Sir."

"Hmm. I got it--the USSR seems to be doing just fine with full employment. In fact some are predicting their economy will surpass ours soon."

"Sir, I think I know where you are going with this."

"Oh calm down. I'm not saying forced employment, but maybe we can tax dressing the kids, dropping them off at school, monitoring the neighborhood, charity functions: you know tax all that labor that doesn't get a paycheck. I mean we can't let all that resource go directly into the family, neighborhoods, and civic life. That's just not right."

"Um, Sir, if you do that you'll start a revolution."

"Then what do you suggest. Where's my damn cigar?"

"Well for a number of years now intellectuals, Hollywood and other opinion makers have been mocking the housewife. Maybe we could step up the pressure. Induce them into the work place. Maybe alter tax policy and stuff. We could call the whole thing a movement or something like self actualization or something."

"Brilliant! Think of all the new taxes. And the downward pressure on labor costs. Brilliant! When can we start?"

"Well Sir, right away, but I think we'll need to tie it into the Great Society program."

"Okay."

"And sir that'll mean child care and stuff like that.

"Okay."

"And raising taxes, but we can't raise them enough to actually do the jobs in family, neighborhoods, and in civic life as well or comprehensively as mothers do."

"Why not? Lunk head. Light my cigar."

"Yes sir, hear you go sir. Well sir, to do that would cost way too much, and we would end up creating a disincentive for mothers joining the workforce."

"Hmm, I see. So the impersonal bureaucracies must also always be less efficient, and naturally, less caring and attentive."

"Correct."

"So we have to cook the frog, slowly. HA HA."

"Good one sir. Correct you are sir, if we want to benefit government then we have to take more than we give back."

"A slow bleed so to speak? Any thing else to look forward to?"

"There is one other thing to look forward to.

"And that is?"

"Radicalizing many heretofore traditional tax exempt groups."

"Perfect! What's your name again?"

“Killjoy sir.”

not ashamed to be right
Good morning! I was away and didn't see your greeting sooner. It was a pleasure meeting you over at the Barber column, as frustrating as that was overall. I look forward to communicating with you again.

where are you guys?
Where are the sensible people? I read this article and I read every post and I felt like I was breathing fresh air. I belong to an online forum for Mom's and I'm telling you many women today have eaten the leftist arguments up (for govt. sponsored everything, "self-actualization"...) hook line and sinker. It is politically incorrect to espouse such conservative Mary Poppins viewpoints, and the vicious ones let you know it. The thing is, whenever a "conservative" tries to make a valid point, he or she is attacked by a leftie. Then the conservative rebuttles, and the leftie has no argument! I am so angry at these women I want to shout at them that if they don't like all of the amazing privelages this country has to offer why don't they move to Canada or Sweden? They are so narrow-minded and just can't see the big picture-imagine the society they envision and it's repurcussions 50 years from now. By the way, I'm not so righty I think poor and disadvantaged women need to fend for themselves and who cares if their children grow up to be murdering gangsters or nothing more than a clerk at Wal-Mart...As a Christian I believe in helping those less fortunate than myself. But don't we already have those programs (like Wick and Headstart and charities also??). If sensible people don't start standing up for what they belive in and know to be true in their hearts this country is going to get away from us. Afraid it already is.

too late!
guess I am like a year too late with my post! Oh well!
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