Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Friday, March 20, 2009
Larry Kudlow :: Townhall.com Columnist
A Hidden Agenda Behind the 90 Percent Tax?
by Larry Kudlow
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


Taking advantage of the populist revolt against Wall Street and AIG bailouts, the House Democrats have passed a vengeance tax on TARPed financial firms that amounts to a 90 percent marginal tax rate on bonuses.

This is being done in the name of AIG outrage, and nobody wants to defend the insurance company -- including me. The financial-products division helped blow up the global credit system, and it shouldn’t be rewarded. Yet one wonders about this 90 percent tax rate. If it passes the Senate, will it ever be repealed? This could be the ultimate class-warfare spread-the-wealth redistribution scheme, aimed squarely at punishing success and penalizing the so-called rich.

Note that the $250,000 cut-off point for the tax is the same line drawn in the sand in Obama’s budget for tax hikes on investors and successful earners. The president is proposing a tax rate of 40 percent, not 90 percent. But connecting the dots between Speaker Pelosi and Pres. Obama, it will be interesting to see if the president dares sign this bill.

And even though the 90 percent tax is a reaction to the AIG bonus fiasco, you have to wonder if the very-liberal-left House Democrats have a much broader agenda: to completely overturn the supply-side tax cuts of Ronald Reagan and John F. Kennedy.

A bit of history is in order. Following WWI, the Harding-Coolidge-Mellon Republicans returned the country to tax normalcy by reducing Woodrow Wilson’s 75 percent wartime tax to 25 percent -- thus triggering the roaring growth of the 1920s. Then came the Depression, spawned in large part by Herbert Hoover and FDR, who raised the top tax rate to 63 percent, 70 percent, and finally 94 percent.

The Robert Taft Republican Congress elected in 1946 lowered those tax rates, but they later bounced back to 91 percent, where they held until JFK proposed sweeping tax reform in the 1960s. The top tax rate was reduced to 70 percent, igniting the 1960s boom -- until it was undone by the inflationary Fed and Nixon’s de-linking of the dollar from gold. But Pres. Reagan slashed the top tax rate all the way down to 28 percent. This launched a multi-decade boom, with the top rate not straying far from Reagan’s vision.

Now, Pres. Obama has said that he has no intention of returning to the 70 or 90 percent tax rates of the past. But one wonders if the 90 percent House Democratic tax rate on so-called unearned income (bonuses) might not be the congressional tail that wags the presidential dog.

Most folks will say this scenario is farfetched. But it’s worth pondering. Is there truly a tax-the-rich hidden agenda in Washington that goes far beyond the Obama budget?

I wonder about this simply because there’s a much better way to recoup the misbegotten AIG bonuses. Though no one in Congress is paying any attention to beleaguered Treasury man Tim Geithner, he explained in a March 17 letter to Nancy Pelosi that the Treasury “will impose on AIG a contractual commitment to pay the Treasury from the operations of the company the amount of the retention awards just paid. In addition, we will deduct from the $30 billion in assistance an amount equal to the amount of those payments.” So the AIG bonus problem can be remedied in a much calmer and simpler way than returning to 90 percent tax rates.

But the bigger point is this: A 90 percent tax rate on financial bonuses is so punitive that it will surely drive away the best and brightest from the very banks that must heal the credit system. Do we really want D-minus students -- who are willing to accept massive tax punishment -- in charge of a trillion dollars in taxpayer money and spearheading economic recovery? The perverse incentives of tax retribution against AIG and other TARPed banks will surely backfire, and taxpayers and economic recovery will take the hit.

You see, taxes matter. They hugely impact economic behavior. The whole economic system is run on incentives to work, invest, and take risks. And it must pay, after tax, to ignite the entrepreneurial activity that really drives the economy. Like it or not, our free-market capitalist system is driven by the economic activist, provided he or she is properly rewarded.

So the real battle here in fact could be a war between the left wing of the Democratic party and the Reagan supply-side incentive model of economic growth.

Republicans in the House who just voted for massively high marginal tax rates had better think twice. When financial calm returns to the country, the GOP will not want to be accomplice to a confiscatory tax system that will stifle the economy and push America into decline for decades to come.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author

Lawrence Kudlow is host of CNBC's Kudlow & Company

Be the first to read Lawrence Kudlow's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

90%
I believe that they used this 90% number to make the 60-70% rate seem minimal. I do believe that they fully intend to raise the tax rates much higher than they have actually admitted to the American People. This is just a sample. If we get used to saying 90% 60% won't sound so bad.

money hungry politicians
The liberals are all upset over the AIG bonuses?
I don't like it myself. But raise a tax level to 90%.. What kind of infantile stupidity is that? First it's unconstitutional to tax a 'group'.I know that isn't the only issue.
If Congress succeeds at this 90% tax..they'll just follow up with other taxes on the rest of us. They're like some mindless juggernaut going full speed ahead! They don't care about the individual middle class workers. They only see us as a revenue source. If we stay on the current path we are doomed to a depression worse than the 1930's.

What is in these contracts?
I have yet to see a contract that allows bonuses to be paid without meeting certain performance, or goals.

Without performance, or clearly defined goals, results are meaningless and the bonus monies then can be viewed as something other than a retention or a performance bonus.

Has anyone actually viewed the wording in one of these contracts? Does anyone really know if they had to be paid at all?

Where can we find one of these contracts to see for ourselves what they really say.




About Hidden Agenda:
Hello, Larry.
This is about Beta's eating Beta's, Make sure you're not confused as one. I had always assumed you weren't.
Alpha's should go 'round defending the constitutionality and the Rule of Law. Digging around to find justifications as to why this division caused this, or didn't cause that at AIG only says you're looking for a justification to hang those bastards, and pillory the people who hang them for the wrong reasons. Wrong.
Be an Alpha. Stand up.
As always,
Vassar

FDR Redux
Does this sound like FDR reincarnated?

Targets
If they can target speciffic individuals, this will set a dangerous precident.

What next?

"Rush Limbaugh is preventing a free exchange of ideas, so, to compensate, he will be taxed 90 percent of his revenue."

Please, SCOTUS, observe the CONSTITUTION!!!!!

Going Down A Bad Road
First of all, I was never in favor of any bailout going to anyone at any time. But what do I know? Maybe it was crucial, as President Bush said at the time. So, congress appropriated all this TARP money, and started doling it out. When the money was given to these various institutions, was the money given with instructions to spend it in only certain ways? Or was that left to the institution's discretion? I don't know, but if it is the latter, how can anyone in Congress scream foul?

Even more important, Congress now wants to enact specific legislation to target specific individuals, and give them a special tax rate. This has to be the scariest thing I have ever seen our federal government do. It is setting a terrible precedent. Where do we go from here?

When...
When is Obama going to give back all that money he got from AIG?

Much Sound and Fury...
... bread-and-circuses to distract from what's going on right under our noses.

http://www.e3gazette.com/2009/03/hr-1388-is-arbeit-macht-fr ei-too-strong.html

- MuscleDaddy

Obama's sleight-of-hand
Although it's clear that both AIG Financial Products division and AIG corporate leadership behaved unethically, this is actually a godsend for Obama. He knows our weakness-- how gullible we are. It's easy for him to divert the public's attention by scapegoating a particular group of employees or a certain corporation. "Punish the underserving rich!" is the new battle cry. See? We can all believe in Obama, he "feels our pain".

This is the classic Saul-Alinsky community organizing paradigm.

And while we remain transfixed on the "horrors" of the AIG retention bonus controversy, BHO is setting new precedent by pushing new tax legislation that will punish a targeted group of individuals. But the real price we will pay for this bit of vengeance is the social cost of furthering Barack's real agenda-- his mission of transforming American society into a socialist state.

Well done, Obama, well done.

Remember it's not a tax increase...
Letting the Bush tax cuts expire is not a tax increase. Returning tax rates back to pre-Reagan years is not a tax cut. Returning tax rates back to pre-Kennedy years is not a tax cut.

It's just correcting abuses, ending the culture of entitlement, and returning to a more rational time.

Don't you see?

Help me out, I still can't.

A Primer on Modern American Governance
Our political class has every right to take as much from us as we allow them. Slaves have no right to protest, or presume to tell their masters how to rule. The role of slaves is to await their masters' decisions and pray that they live under benevolent dictators rather than wicked tyrants.

Slaves have their faith and their luck to cling to. But they have no right to offend the ears of our messiah and his disciples in the legislature.

Wonder if that
shouldn't apply to book advances and maybe royalties. How about when actors get a percent of the box office?

It will get worse
This would be funny, if it was a Marx Brothers movie. But it's not. Barky and his willing accomplices in the media are systematically destroying our country. We've only seen the beginning. Hyper-inflation is just around the corner, and it will wipe out any savings or retirement you may have left. The US will be on a level with Zimbabwe by the time these guys get through.

How bad will it get before we drive these thugs out of Washington? We we wake up and stop it in time?

Probably not.

Diane
I think you called it. The Demcrats have a history of accusing Republicans of things the Democrats are either doing or planning on trying, so the impact of people discovering what they have done or plan to do is much blunted. This looks similar.

A good bit like "reasonable gun control" compromises, actually. Compromises that constantly edge higher.

I like this.
In 1916, a minister and outspoken advocate for liberty, William J. H. Boetcker, published a pamphlet entitled The Ten Cannots .

1. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
2. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
3. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.
4. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
5. You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence.
6. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
7. You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
8. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
9. You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
10. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they will not do for themselves."



Think I should send a copy to the Prez?

Scapegoating AIG..

And this Demo Con-Job won't stop with AIG..

Obviously, another elementary, playbook scheme for another Socialist Power Grab..

Coming soon, I hope.. pitchfork time..

Just Do It, Dems, And America Is Over

If the Libtards and Mugabe do this, they will create an atmosphere where NO ONE will ever strive to succeed, where NO ONE will ever rise again to accept the call of from the government to help heal our economy, where NO ONE will ever give a (g)odDAMNED fig about the poor or useless. Just do it Mugabe and Libtards, and America is over, done, fini, kaput, et un fait accompli.

I detest everyone of the SOBs.

Don't tread on me.

This truly frightens me
I have joked at times that there needs to be a special marginal tax rate for annoying liberal rich people that think tax rates should be higher. I was willing to include, Gates, Buffet, rock stars, and most pro athletes. At times I include the bonuses of failed executives in my mock policy. If this policy occurs, no-one is safe. The democrat party becomes the official arbiter of honest gain. The only honest wage will be from the government in their economy. We will reach the end of the road to serfdom.

Outrageous
To me, yesterday's vote and the left's populist preaching brings us one step closer to this administration's perceived goal of dictating the winners in our society. Without considering the ramifications to a still unstable financial system, Barney Frank's gang has once again put the left's agenda ahead of common sense

Dumb Americans

This is happening all over the country. Democrats are screaming the sky is falling and we need to act today.
It's happening in Illinois. Everything Blagojevich did in the last six years has devastated the Illinois economy. I think not. He was not the only one there.
One month ago Illinois was 1.5 billion in debt. Now the democrats are telling us it's 11.5 billion and they have to raise taxes and fees immediately. The state is in critical condition. No one even questions how we got from 1.5 to 13.5. Lies, lies and more lies. Well ok just raise my taxes. Meanwhile I'm paying for social services for every illegal in this state. Of course they can't cut those programs.
It is unbelievable how gullible the voters are.

Why blame this on
the Democrats in the House? More than half the Republican members voted for this ridiculous tax, too. It's quite a sight to see Eric Cantor, Mr. Conservative himself, voting in favor of this 90% tax. I guess Republicans aren't so anti-tax after all.

Golf
I consider it abuse for my government to take a larger percentage of what I earn, and then decide how to spend it. Give me good roads and a dominating military. Promoting entitlement is what happens when an every increasing portion of the population learns and believes they are owed everything they want and expect government to provide it. Leads to sloth.

Only for the bailout companies
Is Lawrence saying that it takes exhorbitant payoffs to employ people in basically corrupt companies like AIG? If the best an executive can do is run a company into the ground with rewards for sales and no penalties for loses, then the USA is in great trouble.

Lets find some ways to penalize our political leaders also. Start at term limits written into the law.

You think it will stop at TARP
"But the bigger point is this: A 90 percent tax rate on financial bonuses is so punitive that it will surely drive away the best and brightest from the very banks that must heal the credit system. Do we really want D-minus students -- who are willing to accept massive tax punishment -- in charge of a trillion dollars in taxpayer money and spearheading economic recovery?"

EXACTLY! And what do you think will be the Obama reaction? Do you think a man who believes that there are 57 states and who thinks the only thing FDR did wrong is not put us further into debt will do the wise thing and repeal the 90% tax?

NOOO!

Consider: When smart, entrepreneurial, successful people began FLOODING out of the Soveit Union when Stalin began imposing his communist agenda, what did he do? Did he start to pull back on his notions of wealth redistribution and government control that was causing people to flee to greener pastures? Nope. He built the Berlin Wall. The Berlin Wall wasn't built to keep anyone out. It was built to keep people in.

Obama's reaction to losing any and all quality people in the banking institutions that most need intelligent people to get them back on their feet will *NOT* be to eliminate the punitive tax. It will instead be to extend that tax to EVERY job in the United States. Mark my words, within 1 year the top tax rate for any household earning over $250K *WILL* be 90% so that no one can escape that tax.

Headline of the day.
Not really related to the topic, but this headline is just too good to pass up:

"Obama White House bars press from press award ceremony"

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/03/obama-ne wspaper.html

Welcome to Obamanation.

OOPS!
The members of Congress rush to the floor to scream about the changes they need to make.

Changes because they failed to read it the first time.

Changes because they failed to ask the questions the first time.

Changes because they failed to read it the second time.

Changes because they failed to ask the proper questions the second times.

Just wish it there could be a three strike rule on these people.

OZZY OSBORN TALKS BETTER THAN BARNEY
MY GOSH,OZZY IS MORE CLEAR THAN BARNEY,AND MORE NORMAL.

Think again Lawrence
The D-minus students are already in control of trillions of our money as they plan to drive us right over the cliff.

Larry the Shameless Liar Up to Tricks!
“the House Democrats have passed a vengeance tax on TARPed financial firms that amounts to a 90 percent marginal tax rate on bonuses.”

The House vote was 328 to 93. The Democrats overwhelmingly supported it 243-6.
85 Republicans supported the bill and 87 Republicans opposed it. The last time I checked, that was damn near 50%.

I will rewrite the sentence as you are obviously factually challenged.

“the House Democrats and damn near half of the House Republicans have passed a vengeance tax on TARPed financial firms that amounts to a 90 percent marginal tax rate on bonuses.”

Larry, you win the Joseph Goebbels’s Award this week.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/20/house-votes-to- put-90-tax-on-aig-bonuses/

Run against Dodd, Larry
Senator Christopher Dodd (D-Conn) specifically added an executive-compensation restriction to the bill. That amendment provides an “exception for contractually obligated bonuses agreed on before Feb. 11, 2009” — which exempts the very AIG bonuses Dodd and others are now seeking to tax.

The amendment made it into the final version of the bill, and is law.

Separately, Sen. Dodd was AIG’s largest single recipient of campaign donations during the 2008 election cycle with $103,100, according to opensecrets.org.

One of AIG Financial Products’ largest offices is based in Connecticut.

Now, Dodd is screaming that he is "shocked, just shocked" by the bonuses. He is the one who put this system into place and protected his buddies in the first place.

As for taxes, since there is NO money for any of the trillions Cong. is dreaming up, incredible taxation has to happen soon. Or we may as well just all move to China.

Let's see if I get this straight
The bonuses are necessary for the companies to hold on to the very people responsible for this mess?

It just proves the point
When buying and selling is controlled by legislation, the first things bought and sold are legislators. The "most ethical Congress in history" is massively corrupt. Typical Democrat campaign promises, not worth a warm bucket of spit.

Comparing apples and oranges, but
The bonuses that these Wall Street execs get are truly outrageous. Some of the execs from failing banks are getting millions of dollars. It's ridiculous. One gets a bonus for producing a profit, not for driving a company into the ground. Since some of these bonuses are now being given by banks that accepted TARP funds, well, I think we the people have every right to demand the money back -- with interest.

As I understand it, though, this legislation applies to all exec bonuses everywhere. And, I don't think that's right. I know several CEOs of small businesses, usually family-owned corporations. They get paid a nominal salary like any other workers. Then, when they post a profit, they get a bonus from the profit sharing. In all cases in which I'm familiar, these folks don't make very much in salary for the amount of work they do. The profit bonus brings their overall compensation up to a respectable level considering that they put in more hours than anyone else in the business. And, they only get that bonus if the company posts a healthy profit.

It's unfair, IMO, to tax them 90% on that. That is their reward for doing a good job. I'm wondering if it's also going to be pinned on regular workers who are in companies that share profits with their workers. Again, that seems to be a method for suppressing hard work and the creation of profit.

What is Obama et al trying to do?
I think they believe that executives ought to do their jobs just because they like to work. I remember having a conversation with a liberal friend a while back. Smart man, but his attitude was that business owners and executive directors, etc., don't do any real work. They get paid to glad-hand at cocktail parties, was how he characterized it. From his point of view, someone working as the CEO of a company should get paid less than anyone else in the company because everyone else is working harder.

To a certain extent, I agree. If you're a construction worker, you're physically working a lot harder than the boss. However, the boss usually bid on the work, which requires a substantial amount of know-how to do. OTOH, I've worked in a construction firm where the gal doing the insurance and the one running the office made more money than the constructions workers did, even though they created NO business for the company. They merely processed paperwork. My liberal friend is right that such drains on a business's profits shouldn't be allowed. On the other hand, the guy who bids the work is at least as profitable as the guy who performs the work.

Back to Mr. Obama and company. I think they think CEOs ought to look at their jobs as charity, something they do for fun. They shouldn't get paid anymore than 90% of the workers who are below them. If they do get paid more, then they ought to pay more in taxes so that the money can go to whomever was ripped off to give them more money. I think that's what they're driving at.

Yeah, it's going to suppress business and turn a recession into a depression, but I don't think they really understand that, because they've never taken economics, read Dr. Sowell or Williams' books and really don't know that voodoo economics doesn't work.

HIDDEN AGENDA
The only trouble is they found out Dodd's little secret.He's one of the biggest crooks in DC.

Diamond z
Thats cause Barney forgot to spit it out!

Randy AL
Blame Chuckie the commie Shumar.
WE WILL TAKE IT BACK!

wait
'As I understand it, though, this legislation applies to all exec bonuses everywhere.'-aurorawatcher...not quite

The bill would impose a 90 percent tax on bonuses given to employees with family incomes above $250,000 at American International Group and other companies that have received at least $5 billion in government bailout money. It would apply to any such bonuses issued since Dec. 31.

so how would this apply to any non bailed out company again??

any proposal for a 90% tax on all bonuses everywhere would never see the light of a vote..lets be serious

and another thing
why-the-f is a retention bonus needed for the very people who have falied horribly at their jobs?

It's The Demagoguery, Stupid!
Sen. Jon Kyl, the Republicans’ vote counter, blocked Democratic efforts Thursday evening to bring up the Senate version of the tax bill to recoup most of the $165 million paid out by AIG last weekend and other bonuses in 2009. The House had swiftly approved its version of the bill earlier in the day.

By rushing, Kyl said, Democrats were letting populist outrage trump informed decision making in the Senate, which is supposed to be insulated from the pressures of public passion.

“I don’t believe that Congress should rush to pass yet another piece of hastily crafted legislation in this very toxic atmosphere, at least without understanding the facts and the potential unintended consequences,” Kyl said on the Senate floor. “Frankly, I think that’s how we got into the current mess.”…

How to impose those taxes without running afoul of the Constitution or the law is a dispute that has Republicans urging a go-slow approach. Doing so, of course, would drag out the Democratic discomfort over administration missteps and provide plenty of time for the GOP and others to question Geithner’s performance.

See link for some interesting information on the AIG witch trials, the Constitutionality of the tax bill, and other like issues.

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/03/20/sanity-kyl-blocks-bil l-on-aig-bonuses-to-give-senate-time-to-think-things-over/

Treason!
Obama, if you wish to be more than a one year, first term president, listen up! Someone should make the case for what flat taxes would generate(10% rate for citizens off the top and a 15% rate for businesss off the top, or 15% - 20% if you prefer)against what the feds pulled in last year. Then this person could cross check to see if state sales taxes could be lowered in the event "excessive" surpluses were to be found, which I suspect would be the case. You say no? Well, then dont be surprised when The good ol' USA goes broke someday soon. You cannot, at this point, say the government does not have enough money to run our country(which was what taxes were originally supposed to be for, not European States). The printing presses in Washington are running white hot. The problem now is your plan to remove large sums of liqidity from the private sector with stealth taxation in a down driven economy, diverting it directly into government coffers for the purpose of funding socialistic engineering dreams by the likes of Pelosi, Dodd, Schumer, Reid, Frank and too many dozens of others in positions of political power.... America! Rely thee not 'pon those who ill conspire! Publicly elected representatives of the Government of the Constition of the United States of America who legislate against citizens on an individual basis is an inequality under the law and should be brought to trial for treason and summarily executed at dawn, if only to save the expense of confining their worthless "spread the wealth" souls in state prisons.... Jus' sayin'

Somebody explain it to me
Some AIG executives are getting large bonuses, per their contracts with AIG.

To get the bonus they had to agree to stay with AIG (not start looking for another job) and perform their jobs as best they could.

I've never met anyone who performed his job badly unless he was looking to get fired to draw unemployment. Most people have pride in what they do.

The job of these executives was to invest AIG's money in the best way possible. In the market they were in everybody was buying and investing in securities backed by mortgages that were believed to be backed by Fannie or Fredie, AKA the U.S. Government. In most markets having something backed by the Government is better than a sure thing and mortgage backed ecurities have always been considered a secure nvestment. At least until the enhancement of the CRA.

As a result of Government interference in the market (CRA), an over abundance of mortgate loans failed and neither Fanny or Fredy came to the rescue,

I would imagine the executives did their best to stop the "bleeding" but they were only human and at the mercy of the (government modified) market.

Were any of the funds controlled by these executives able to perform better than the overall market? If they were, don't they deserve some reward for their performance?

Shouldn't the companies that initiated the loans, read Country Wide, ETC., be prosecuted for fraud for selling shady mortgages as good investments? Or will Senator Dodd protect his buddy Angelo at Country Wide?

Before everybody grabs their pitch forks and join the mob, stop and think. Maybe a few on Capitol Hill should be investigated - Barney, Chris, Maxine - not the people in the executive offices.

The Mobs Out in the Streets . . .
. . . sure look like the usual well-organized "rent-a-mob" Communist street agitators from the usual outfits (ANSWER, ACORN et al.) who, during the Bush administration, took part in every anti-American and pro-jihad demonstration there was. Ever notice watching these so-called "populist" protests outside AIG offices, that the signs they held up were professionally printed and typeset?

Also, by their inflammatory and irresponsible rhetoric, Frank et al. are effectively engaging in incitement to commit violence against AIG employees and their families. Remember the French Revolution, anyone?

To be sure, I'm not defending the AIG bonuses. But that in no way justifies this hateful, vindictive witch-hunt now being perpetrated in our name.

90%?!
I HATE DEMOCRATS!

There is NO FREAKING WAY that any government has the right to do that to ANYONE!

SCREW YOU DEMOCRATS!

Needed: Clarity and Congress on Vacation
Who speaks for Wall Street? There must be one honest person out there who can tell us in clear language how Wall Street actually works. Supposedly the Masters of the Universe are there because they have huge amounts of testosterone, willing to act boldly even if the downside is the loss of their jobs.

Millions of Americans were relying on Wall Street firms to grow their investments so they would have comfortable retirements. Instead we get a meltdown and the President willingly presides over a massive derogation of the traders, creating the suspicion that he doesn't care about the private capital markets because he wants everyone to be beholden to the government.

Meanwhile, Democrat politicians who received massive amounts of campaign funds from Wall Street firms turn on their former benefactors with a vengeance.

It's time not for a bankers' holiday but for Congress and the President to go on a vacation and let the real movers and shakers sort this out. Their stirring of the pot only poisons the mess and build voters' recognition that Congress creates nothing--it only destroys whatever it touches.

Vengance is scary
While I believe that the AIG bonuses are outrageous given the circumstances, I think the greater outrage is the "Vengance Tax". If Congress can single out one group, who is next?

If I were among the AIG folks (and I can think of lots of ways to use that kind of money!),I'd be lawyering up ASAP.

This is "ex post facto" law,specifically prohibited under the Constitution.

See http://law.jrank.org/pages/6630/Ex-Post-Facto-Laws.html

Larry, get real!
The Agenda has never been hidden. It's been out there from the very moment since the New Deal and exacerbated during the Great Society; take from the rich to give to the poor...
As for the bonuses...that's what we get from Our Short-Attention-Span Congress and lying President. To quote an irreverent reverend, "the Chickens have come home to roost."

Democrats do not have the courage
to let the American people vote one the issues. Dems LIE about their intentions to get elected, then immediately reverse course.

To me this is the very definitions of EVIL.

Target Of The Week
Last week it was Rush, this week it is AIG, next week...fill in the blank. Obama has been POTUS for two months and we have had a string of targets paraded to take our minds off the fact that the entire bunch at the White House, State Dept., Treas. et al is incompetent.

Yes, America is stupid but even stupid people get the idea they are being had after it goes on long enough. How long it will take for the people to understand what is being done to them is anyone's guess but the fact that this is such a fiasco after only two months indicates to me it won't take long.

The tell tale to look for is the media starting to ask harder questions of the administration. While they are cheerleaders for Obama they still want to keep their jobs and if they see carrying water for Obama as threatening their paychecks they will turn on him. If the public perception has turned against Obama and the media still covers for him the damage will be severe. It won't happen all at once but after it starts to grow could easily turn into an avalanche.

Dirty Politics
This is nothing but filthy politics.

How about a 90% tax on AIG's millions of campaign contributions to politicians like Obama, Dodd, Clinton, Schumer, Lautenberg, etc. This tax should be paid by the politician who received the campaign contributions.

I want to see bambi go after
his buddy raines who ran fannie into the ground, he left with a 90 million dollar bonus.
This guy is trying to destroy this nation..no company will do business with any other if that co. got gov't money and is then subject to having congress come back and tax them like this..this will spread like a cancer, these damfools know that. I know dems are stupid when it comes to actually working for a living, but they can't be THAT stupid.

The dems like pelosi want a huge gov't and the end of the GOP, they control the sock puppet, he runs around in constant campaign mode getting his ego stroked by adoring and totally clueless morons while we, the people who should be lionized for playing by the rules and actually contributing, get screwed.

I'm sick of this fool, he just showed the entire arab world that he is a complete wimp with that stupid video.
He has no balls and they know it.
He has just said we can't beat you so please be nice and talk to us, to me it also signaled to the Israeli's that they are on their own.

Nice job libs, the next attack on this land will have your fingerprints on it and the loss of life will be on your conscience, we saw it coming.

Congress is the Problem!!
There is no surprise in what AIG did, you can bet that Obama and the Congress/Senate knew well in advance the Bonuses where going to be handed out. The ones that should not be trusted are Obama and his Tax hungry Democrats who will by the time its over taxing the Air we breath. How long and how many times does it take for People to see that every time the Democrats get control they raise Taxes, and given the huge Amount that Obama has bit off to reward the very people who got us into this mess. The bottom line is its the American people against a out of control Government who spends freely with no Physical Restraint, they have been solely responsible for the mess we find our selfs in and now were suppose to believe that weather a Vengeance Tax or any other type of Tax there is no way that anybody possessing any Intelligence could trust or stand by any longer while our own Government and Politicians are going to destroy the American way of life. History has shown that every major Power has fected our Country and our Society, So do we lay down and give up orcollapsed from with in and Our Government is the Disease that has in do we do what's needed to get our Country back. Its a Fight worth making and the ones who won't or Don't will be the same ones who never do I.E. Liberals. And given this crisis we have not herd one thing out of Obama's (Change) brigade rolling back Congress/Senate's Pay or any reduction or salary freeze in pay for Government workers when so many Americans are without Jobs.

hmmm
Just goes to show me that someway to find out a way to one day move out of the country with my own money and say get lost us gov.

as what happens one day when Congress gives up and says we must tax all at a 75% rate with no loop holes? hmmmmm

Short History Lesson
For nearly a half century during the latter half of the 20th - the Republican party was the loyal opposition in Congress. They put brakes on Democrat excess and otherwise behaved themselves. Then came Reagan, Gingrich, and finaly Bush. We have seen the Democrats who have been in tantrum since Reagan, then Gingrich, do a total meltdown during Bush. He, on the other hand, ruled so stupidly that every Decmorat excess was poked at with a sharp stick until they bascially lost what small amount of sanity they had left.

By Bush destroying the Republican majority with his stupidties, he allowed the triumvirate of Obama, Reid and Pelosi to come to power and now woe is us. Ruling like the children they are, basing everything on their litany of hostilities and resentments, they will drive the nation into either a full on Depression or civil war, perhaps both, and a lot of red blood and red ink will spill until they are brought down and bottled up again.

Liberalism is a disease. Left untreated it becomes Stalinism and we are moving like a freight train down the Colorado slope in that direction.

Nothing new
The Feds have been able to do what the hell they want for a very long time.Not always,but a very long time.Ya see, at one time a group saw this insanity coming and tried to stop it.They demanded State's Rights and a federal government that knew it's place.But our (sic(k)greatest Prez saw different and with the help of the media,the ones of the 300 he didn't shut down,proclaimed that State's Rights was nothing but code for slavery.Funny thing,we have 20+ states now with resolutions demanding the Feds respect the Constitution and their "State's Rights".I wonder what the spin will be for that termonology this time.And who is gonna man up and lay off FDR,Hoover,whoever, and put the big government blame where it belongs.Abe Lincoln.

I cana't help but wonder...
How much damage can this populist government do in four years? The thing that bothers me the most is that even those non-liberals who voted for Obama still cannot see the huge tax broadsword hanging over our heads. "Wait to see how it all shakes out." they tell me. "Give the man a chance." they say. They can't see that he hasn't a clue of what's going on and he is reacting to public opinion on a daily basis. There is no rudder, no leadership, no control. A blatantly leftist Congress, with some of the whackiest people you can imagine, holds unlimited power over our lives. I don't want to sound like an alarmist, but.....the deck chairs are sliding and the band is playing soothing music. Start looking for your life jackets now.

Larry
May I say "Thank You" for your insight. Looking beyond this fabricated "Crisis" gives one a clearer view. I don't believe in giving too many "Clues". But I must say Larry,you maybe on to something. It maybe the comprising of the overall tax rate or it maybe something else. In 2 weeks we will all know,what I know now. SORRY!

Hey Kenley
Just some short time ago there was a 90% INCOME TAX rate.
Why wouldn't they do it again on a portion of income?
This bill is aimed at AIG but libturd congresscritters will need more and more of your money.
Why not tax the hell out of those capitalist pigs?

Wake Up America!!
Obama and his Butt Boys and Girls do not care about the AIG Bonus Money. They only care that they can slip through a precedent that will limit pay to whatever maximum amount they choose. If this passes, the next step will be a 90% tax on all income in America over $250,000. Can Obama do any more to kill financial incentive in America? Is that blue streak I see, more American money, business, and rich people flying out of America?

The solution . . .
is to eliminate the "federal reserve" and to back "lawful money" with gold. This would put ALL of the financial wizards who got us into this mess OUT OF BUSINESS.

Sick and Tired of Hypocrisy
from both liberals and people who call themselves Conservatives. Liberalism and hypocrisy are mutually inclusive. True Conservatism and hypocrisy are mutually exclusive. Double standards are supposed to be reserved exclusively for the libs. The AIG bonuses are exposing the hypocrites on both sides of the aisle and it is sickening.

Kudlow’s contention that “the House Democrats” are responsible for this mob rule bill, when half of the House Republicans also voted for it as well, is a crime against the cause of Conservatism. It is what I would expect from a Republican hack like Kudlow. I am shocked, however, that not everyone on this thread called Kudlow on his lie. Some cheer Kudlow on.

Since the bonus contracts were already in place long before Geithner began initial negotiations back in September, and since there is broad agreement within the legal community that these contracts were legally binding and constitutionally protected, neither the Bush nor the Obama administrations are responsible for the bonuses being paid. Neither are they responsible for the fact that the agreements were entered into in the first place.

If as some Republicans claim the Obama administration should have dictated to AIG either no bonuses or no bailout in February, regardless of the constitutionality of such a demand, than the Bush administration is responsible for the same failure back in September. The Democrats are of course accusing the Bush administration of not having given the same ultimatum back in September while not accepting that consistency would require them to apply the same standard to the Obama administration in February.

This hypocritical trading of blame back and forth between the two sides is a tragic comedy. It is greatly assisting in the country’s destruction and the international community’s perception of Americans as insanely stupid.

A pox on both your houses.

REALLY GOOD COMMENTS,
everyone - not a troll in the bunch unless you count WaydownSouth, who is way out in left field. This discussion is above their juvenile mentality, apparently.

I agree with Kraut, the bonuses are seemingly seedy, but how do we know they weren't earned by honest, hard working people? I wouldn't slave away for a bankrupt company without some pretty good incentives and no one else would either.

The cat is out of the bag, though and every new day brings to light the collusion of the congress-creeps in this debacle. They can squawk all they want, but those of us who are paying attention, know it's a BIG smoke screen, a diversion to cover their complicity and stupidity.

I'm afraid they shrewdly written the 90% Tax Bill in such general terms that SCOTUS won't slap it down under Article I, Section 9 of the constitution.

Be very afraid, citizens! If they can do this to executives getting a probably, well earned bonus, THEY CAN DO IT TO YOU!!!

This is so Stalinistic. Join a Tea Party near you.

None of us can speak about the AIG
folks, whether were good or bad, but I can speak to a situation I know of.
One of my boys got a BIG bonus this year, he got it by working his tail off, 75 hour weeks sometimes, about 9 overseas trips, you get the picture.
Now if his company has any dealings with a bank or other entity like AIG, these communists in congress could confiscate 90% of what he earned..The only people who would make money would be the lawyers who try to get it back.

Anyone who trusts this gov't is insane, I have seen too many instances where their little worker bees [bueracrats] will do anything they are told to do, no matter how it affects some poor slob, no matter how illegal, because they don't want to rock the boat. Big gov't is dangerous and we are seeing today the tip of the iceberg with this bunch.

We must vote them out in 2010, no matter who they are, that's they only real way to show them whose the boss.

They have no business homesteading those seats like they do, it's corrupt and not what the framers had in mind, they were to be citizen legislators with real jobs back home and responsible to US, their neighbors, not elitist rulers who won't even acknowledge our letters unless your from their party and then you get platitudes.

roadmaster
I am a Platonist and a Reagan Conservative.

And, I am proud to be called any name you choose because of my efforts to bring intellectual honesty and sanity to this or any other discussion.

If you wish to dispute any particular point I have made, that is when you are finished with your sophomoric comments, give it a shot.

Unlike other so-called Conservatives, I will never be a Republican hack.

Costitution

When is Obama going to give back all that money he got from AIG?

Here, here, I agree with whoever wrote this.

I find this disregard of our constitution scary.

When will America wake up?

I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS
Our country is being run by the most dysfunctional elite non representative representives that we have ever had. The biggest traitors among us hold an elective office.

It keeps getting worse. We have an inexperienced junvenile President who still craves adulation and a lying, cheating congress.

One great difference between a wise man and a fool is, the former only wishes for what he may possibly obtain, the latter desires impossibilities.

I know the American people will not allow our country to become less than the great Republic that it is. All of the words posted here confirm that fact.



Smoke Screen
The Bonuses and everything else they come up with is simply to get us from looking back at where this started!

1982 Garn St Germain bill allowed for the lowering of mortgage standards that caused the S&L Crisis.

Most sitting members of Congress were there to produce the legislation meant to keep it from happening again.

In 2000 They pass a bill which allowed the bundling of bad mortgages. Just in the last couple years the Congress was allowing mortgages to be sold to people who could not afford them, and on television there were courses on real estate speculation.

The evidence is clear either the Congress is incompetent or the collapse was deliberate.

Guess what
If the government had never done the bail out, this never would have been an issue.

ALLEN - CA

I have also wondered if the mortgage crisis was deliberately created. I don't like to rely on conspiracy theories, but it was common sense to know that lowering the qualifying guidlines to acquire a home morgage would turn into a train wreck.

I was in the real estate business in the 1970's when every homebuyer knew they would have to have a job, good credit and a down payment to purchase a home. Homes were bought everyday with this awarness. In the 1990's I supervised an audit department in a mortgage company and could not believe the easy terms and "funky" loans that were being offered to the public.
A lot of money was being made at each level with these sub-prime loans and the greed increased. They were a Madoff Ponzi Scheme at every level and now the American taxpayers are paying for it, just as Madoff's clients have.

Our irresponsible government allowed this to happened in their own efforts to show their benevolence to homebuyers, appease lobbyist (one of which was ACORN, the others being the lenders) and to lock in votes.

During this period we entered into a ME society and no one looked at the long term affects, in my opinion. What say you?



AIG Bonuses
While I am apalled by the bonuses, I do not feel that the government should take any action in this regard. Being unable to void the contracts, the government is now raising taxes on a group of people which, I am told, is against the constitution. Dodd and Gaithner knew about these bonuses being put into the bill which no one read, but eagerly signed -- so did Obama who signed it,and the problem should have been handled then. Get rid of Dodd and Gaithner -- a good start -- and move on.

BAILOUT END OF FREE ENTERPRISE SYSTEM
it took ACORN and DEMS 9 years to bring on the meltdown now this new bailout THROWS more money at them so they will be the bottomless moneypit drain on public funds. WANNA know what happened to all those low income ACORN homes??? they are all boarded up. WHILE our economy is still reeling from the effects of DEMS CONSTANT bad fiscal policies. Got it straight from the horse's mouths people.

It's important the PUBLIC seek LEGAL AND legislative action to OPPOSE THE BAILOUT. We must force these business to pay every dime back IN A TIMELY FASHION and restore these businesses to the PUBLIC SECTOR so that the SMALL bus/med business sector can participate in FREE ENTERPRISE.

Do it for your children's sake otherwise there will be no hope for any young couple in love whom wishes to think about getting married and starting a new business and make it profitably work. IT WILL NEVER BE POSSIBLE IF THE PUBLIC doesn't show their determination to protect their CONSTITUTION. IN ADDITION, the 99 PERCENT of the public 'needs" to seek LEGAL AND LEGISLATIVE action to OPPOSE THE BAILOUT AND STIMULUS.


What!?
Apparently D- students were smart enough to stay away from the kind of intellectual pursuits and foolishness their "smarter" peers fell into. It's the same old story: the intellectual classes are snookered by their intellectual pride to do things they should have known was wrong or stupid.

I am afraid many Harvard types are going to try a lot of new things in the coming years...social experiments they are convinced will make America "better". Again, all thanks to the Ivy League educated. Wall Street voted for Barak Obama in such large numbers...now he's going to repay them precisely with what they need. I would love the irony if it weren't going to hurt the country so badly...but it's one of those man-made catastrophes that seem to strike like Divine Recompense.

Seawolf
Huh? He was working his tail off doing what exactly, running his company further into the ground? Who cares how hard someone works if the pursuit is ultimately damaging? I want to know how successful someone was...and not in short-term profits or business. We are finding out that a lot of people were successful in drumming up business that ended up dooming the company.

Your friend's efforts either made things worse or weren't enough to make any difference in AIG's balance sheet. How does a business basically go bankrupt AND people get bonuses. I'm sorry. You're wrong.

You free-market-over-all-are types are creating an idol of free market capitalism. You'd never give your son a bonus in the family business the year you lost your shirt. Just like you wouldn't tip the waiter who drops your food on the ground and tries to give to you anyway. And everyone who has ever worked for a company that gives bonuses can tell you that some years you're SOL. But not AIG apparently. Nice reasoning and common sense from some of you.

great article
The whole thing seems malevolent to me and this tax sets a bad precedent.

A calmer way,
I wonder about this simply because there’s a much better way to recoup the misbegotten AIG bonuses. Though no one in Congress is paying any attention to beleaguered Treasury man Tim Geithner, he explained in a March 17 letter to Nancy Pelosi that the Treasury “will impose on AIG a contractual commitment to pay the Treasury from the operations of the company the amount of the retention awards just paid. In addition, we will deduct from the $30 billion in assistance an amount equal to the amount of those payments.” So the AIG bonus problem can be remedied in a much calmer and simpler way than returning to 90 percent tax rates.

Geithner's idea makes so much sense.

The congress and Obama skewer and excoriate the people who got the bonuses to try to gain political capital and keep the public's eyes off of their own culpability. Of course the adoring, slobbering press remains silent.

Walter
It's not a criminal law, and the power of the Congress to tax is absolute and without limit of any kind under Constitutional law as long as you don't tax black people more than white people.

We can thank our forefathers for removing that consitutional barrier to tyranny when they passed the 16th amendment.

Hey "a"
It was actually as high as 94% in this country, which, to remind, is why I FREAKING HATE DEMOCRATS.

I HATE them just like I hate CHAINS.

Reba/unfortunately the history shows
1982 Schumer and Hoyer co-sponsored a bill which lowered mortgage standards.

1986 S&L bailout

2000 Commoditties legislation that allowed bundling was passed.

Most of Congress had been in office during the S&L crisis yet they continued to lower mortgage standards.

Though I hate to think our government could deliberately set off such a crisis. How do we argue with their legislative history?
Many members of treasury went from government into the corporations that created the crisis or from the companies into treasury. It is difficult to believe that they did not know the banking collapse was coming and they saw dollars being paid out to which ever company the government chose.

16 Tons--[Of B/S.]
"I owe my soul to the Company Store"-- [Tenn. Ernie Ford]-- SELL the Govt. of the U.S.A. to Wall Mart!! At least then we can PRETEND we don't Belong to CHINA, and--- They Apparently KNOW how to Show a Profit. They're Already getting most of our Disposable Income!! Since they would be getting Virtually All of our Income, We could Do Away with the I.R.S.!! Just have Everyone's Paycheck deposited into a Wal Mart Debit Card Account, and we could have a Cashless Society. This would KILL the Drug Dealers, and--- Since they already Have a "Cozy Arrangement" with the Peoples 'Democratic' Republic of China, They could make "Easy Payment" Arrangements to pay back the Trillions we owe China.

Dangerous precedent of retro-active law
Dear participants of the discussion !
I think that this sudden taxation is a dangerous precedent of retro-active applicatoon of the law. With such a precedent, one can make laws that will target people, who do not support some or other political group.
I am not a fan of AIG myself; apparently they squandered large part of my retirement savings.
Forget about me, I am thinking more about the country my children will live in.
Respectfully, Florida resident. Dear participants of the discussion !
I think that this sudden taxation is a dangerous precedent of retro-active applicatoon of the law. With such a precedent, one can make laws that will target people, who do not support some or other political group.
I am not a fan of AIG myself; apparently they squandered large part of my retirement savings.
Forget about me, I am thinking more about the country my children will live in.
Respectfully, Florida resident.

Not blaming Democrats
It may seem as though my theory is to put the blame the democrats for this current banking crisis.

On the contrary. Please note the S&L Crisis was "resolved" during the GHW Bush administration. GHW Bush had been a member of Congress. Back then some said a banking crisis would occur. A crisis dwarfing the S&L bailout. George II did not see the banking problem coming?

It has always been a wonder why most every democrat voted for the invasion of Iraq. They had a former administration to advise them as to the soundness of the arguments the Bush administration was putting forward. They were sitting on the same intel. committees. They voted FOR the war.

We were asked to believe that they were duped by NEW INTELLIGENCE?

Why did they get so loud against the war? Because they felt duped or they needed to divert public attention from deliberate banking policy which would create the need for sending vast funds to where they chose. AIG paid CASH to Bear Stearns. The government could have offered gaurantees. The government could have asked AIG to negotiate the losses down. We are asked to beleive they did not because the administrations were to busy trying to get a handle on things. They aren't proffesionals? They pay top dollar just to get rid of it?




DONT GET IT
It amazes me no one seems to understand that this administration is packed with and headed by 60's radicals, radicals meaning COMMUNISTS.

Read the magic negros books and his reverence for radicals. The American people need to wake up and begin to understand this clown means what he says when he proclaims his intention to "change this country"

This empty suit is a hugo chavez in the making while the idiots that installed him in office applaud.

We can only hope a true patriot finds the strength, means, and opportunity to put an end to this agitators agenda.

it makes it
easier to "spread the wealth." It will come as a shock to most people how rich Obama thinks they are.

Usefull idiot?
Power brokers needed someone who would take the public eye off the flow of money.

Dangerous precedent of retro-active law
Dear participants of the discussion !
I think that this sudden taxation is a dangerous precedent of retro-active applicatoon of the law. With such a precedent, one can make laws that will target people, who do not support some or other political group.
I am not a fan of AIG myself; apparently they squandered large part of my retirement savings.
Forget about me, I am thinking more about the country my children will live in.
Respectfully, Florida resident.

First, the govt allows the bonuses and
then they punish the companies for handing them out. This is childish and vengeful. Hardly anyone approved of AIG's decision to give out bonuses but the govt can't control private enterprise. The govt didn't have to give AIG the money. This truly is a war against capitalism. What incentive is there to earn $ and be successful if the rich are continually demonized? It's good to be rich, to work hard and make money. It's what America is all about. But I fear Obama and his lefty loons are waging a war on ALL rich people-not just the corrupt ones...

Florida resident
This taxation is dangerous but having a government that will manipulate the banking industry is not?


Allen
Danger or no danger, taxing people 90% is morally wrong. I cite the principles behind the 13th amendment.

Laissez nous faire!!

The past few years have been as close as one comes to a pristine example of what happens when unfettered government intervention into a large complex economy at multiple levels is tolerated.

Briefly, the noose was tightened by the Clinton Administration update of the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act. Since that time the mortgage market has been systematically politicized by Congress, ACORN, NCLR, created a uneconomic and perverse set of incentives. When the mortgage mess metastasized and spread to other sectors, the government-approved solution was to politicize those as well.

*NONE OF THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED WITHOUT GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION INTO THE ECONOMY.*

The past few months have been a resounding confirmation of the rank absurdity of central planning, command economics.

Think hard about this: is there anything about actual freedom and laissez-faire economics that could create a mess approaching what the government has wrought?

Before you answer, remember those evil capitalists don't have guns to coerce you into doing anything. You can simply refuse to do business with them and they will hurt reliably and far more quickly than politicians who are virtually guaranteed re-election in gerrymandered districts. The government has guns aplenty, and has shown a considerable appetite for applying its coercive powers in areas great and small, irrespective of the Constitution.

Distraction/Hoodaticus
Freddie and Fannie offer the same type of bonuses and Frank and Dodd are using this to distract from the history of the legislation that brought about this collapse. Please refer previous posts.

Please look BACK
1982 Garn St Germain - Steny Hoyer and Charles Schumer

1986 Savings and Loan Bailout

2000 Commodities legislation that allowed bundling.

2006 Freddie and Fannie before Franks Committee

The Government deliberately set up the payouts.
AIG paid CASH. How will it be traced?

here we go
Obama will call for increased oversight of 'executive pay at all banks, Wall Street firms and possibly other companies' as part of sweeping plan to 'overhaul financial regulation', NY TIMES reporting Sunday, newsroom sources tell DRUDGE... Developing...

a
'Just some short time ago there was a 90% INCOME TAX rate.
Why wouldn't they do it again on a portion of income?'

i'd be right in line with you A, protesting the moment they start raising middle class taxes...it probably will happen too, but nowhere near 90% I don't think...

And really, although many argue otherwise, those high taxes back in the 40's, 50's, 60's did not stop this country from creating the greatest middle class EVER...but low taxes on the 'rich' (along with many other policies, open borders/free trade/globalization/lack of new industry) certainly have helped to stunt, if not destroy middle class growth, no??

90% Sounds Bad - Really Bad
Obama is a disgrace right now - instead of reading the stimulus bill, getting his Treasury Department up and running - he is in travel mode.
This is insanity!! Members of Congress who voted for this spending bill without reading it - should be voted OUT OF OFFICE - no questions asked. Hasn't part of our financial problem today been caused by people not reading and fully understanding their mortgage obligation?? Not understanding what they were doing??? Has this country suddenly been overcome by stupidity - seems that way and things are getting more ridiculous by the day.
3/4 of a billion dollars for Obama to get elected - almost 2 years of campaigning and instead of putting his nose to the grindstone - he is in a travel mode - THAT IS WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. He is a young, healthy man and should be working 7 days a week right now like many small business owners do - sorry. I hope "we the people" are smart enough to somehow stop this nonsense - no person on earth should be taxed 90% of their earnings - ENOUGH!!!!
If these people at AIG were able to sneak those bonuses past the United States Congress, the US Treasury Department and the President of the United States - then they should keep the money. The Congress, Treasury Department and President should hang their heads in shame.

Rosemary since 1982
Garn St Germain which led to S&L bailout by the government.

Suddenly? Check the history. Consistantly, would be more correct.

Please refer to Prior posts.

Bud
Prior to 1977, tax rates on middle class workers (ex. somewhere between $30-$200,000) averaged like 50-70%, if not higher. This certainly is NOT an example of 'laissez-faire economics', so how do you explain the massive expansion of the middle class from the 40's to the 70's-80's??

I think we should look at govt. intervention in the context of what works and what does not. Like spending for our nations interstate roads 'worked'...but spending to build weapons to be dropped on foreign countries, only to spend more money to repair the damage done, obviously don't 'work'....at least as far as the benefit to the people of this nation

Bud
'Think hard about this: is there anything about actual freedom and laissez-faire economics that could create a mess approaching what the government has wrought?'

In a perfect situation no..but what situation is perfect. Who guarantees 'actual freedom'? If your response is the individual, my repsonse would be that it doesn't seem like that would have worked out to well for African slaves.

Also, who guarantees competetion? You say just refuse to do business, but simply refusing to do business hasn't worked out to well for farmers refusing to play ball with Monsanto, or for small businesses trying to stay in business with a walmart down the street.

It just seems to me like complete free market economics, with no regulation would lead to a few HUGE conglomerates controlling everything and everybody...

Eloquently spoken kenley
But do you believe that the government did not create the current banking situation? I refer you to previous posts.

NO
Thanks Allen, and yes I do beleive govt. intervention (mainly the implied guaranteed backing of Fannie/Freddie, and also the repeal of the Glass/Steagal Act) did much in creating the framework for the abuses, absolutely. I just don't think the correct answer is to get rid of most if not all regulations on business. The regulatory bodies failed, this means they need to be fixed.

Along with Glass/Steagal, this is trully shocking to me,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernizatio n_Act_of_2000...

Phil Gramm also led the charge to leave credit default swaps/interest rate swaps completely unregulated....signed by Bill Clinton...WOW! talk about one of the main roots of our problems!

Allen
Sorry, I see you have been there in prior posts on the Commodities Act of 2000, just wanted to provide a bit more detail...

I'm afraid I've contracted ODS
My repost from another thread

It is simply mindboggling that people in today's brave new world still, after countless ruthless dictatorships and millions of slaughtered innocents otherwise, buy into the left leaning mindset that socialism is the cure for every social ill that exists in the universe. He who said liberalism is a social disease got it right! Capitalism in the greatest country in the world has now become infected. And what is the cure? More socialism, of course.........sheesh!

The stock market has reacted as any sentient being might expect. The stock market dropped a third of it's value since inauguration, give or take a few billion......... Interestingly, the market has dropped 50 % of it's value since the 2006 Cogrssional elections. If one were to think about this too much one might be persuaded that the whole destruction of our economy was a Democratic campaign tactic to stampede an aroused, panicked electorate into a rising ground swell for "hope and Change".

Congress, it has been said, is the only cathouse in the world that cannot make a profit. That is not entirely true........ only for the bosses (that used to be me and you). Individually, they're doing great! Ask Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, Murtha, Frank, etc., etal ....... they love their OPM..... Someone should compare last years net worth for these vermin with this year's net worth in 2010 to find out how much they love it! After all, who's going to miss a billion here or there when you can stack a trillion dollars 67+ miles high with $1000 dollar bills! I believe fervently in the concept of congressional term limits of 8 years. Then they too, as private citizens, with no more power than one, would also be allowed to reap the fruits of their labor.

Fair tax
It is time to push hard for the Fair Tax. And, don't even mention the flat tax. We got close to a flat tax (three simple brackets) in 1986. Look what that has degenerated into, and it is about to degenerate even further.

Come on
I thought the people here were smarter than this,saying these people don't deserve these bonuses yet not understanding what this means.Try this.You own a baseball team.The team sux and comes in dead last.You have 2 outstanding players but their contracts are up this year.What do you do to help your team rebuild?Let those 2 go?Offer them less money?Offer them more money to stay and help get the team going?A good owner would do all he could to keep those 2 even though they were part of the losing team.And don't think for one minute baseball ain't big bussiness.It's huge.And the word 'bonus' doesn't help.If the money would have been called 'retentive incentives',we wouldn't be having this conversation.People hear bonus and automatically assume that it's for a job well done.Not the case.Just like a signing bonus.Money to motivate.

Hoodaticus
I see two issues. First the 90% tax, which is insane, and then Congress trying to target a group with a punative law.

I fear what ends up being passed is going to end up taxing many more people than what the Obamaniacs are saying now.

The stated goal is not the actual goal, and apparent failure may well be actual success.

The Appleseed Project .... RWVA
April 19, 1775

When Marksmanship met History, and Heritage Began ...

What the RWVA (Revolutionary War Veterans Association) is all about:

The Appleseed Program is designed to take you from being a simple rifle owner to being a true rifleman. All throughout American history, the rifleman has been defined as a marksman capable of hitting a man-sized target from 500 yards away — no ifs, ands or buts about it. This 500-yard range is traditionally known as "the rifleman's quarter-mile;" a rifleman can hit just about any target he can see. This skill was particulary evident in the birth of our country, and was the difference in winning the Revolutionary War.

http://www.appleseedinfo.org/


Here We Go.
Here we go with more proposed regulation by an incompetent administraiton and congress, which is just more control.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/us/politics/22regulate.ht ml

Total Circus
Anyone else notice the markets reacting to the anti corporate witch hunt?

Equal treatment
I just wonder, are the proposed tax rates even constitutional? Could it not be argued that it violates equal treatment before the law as it targets a very select group? Also, would it not be an ex-post facto law?

But let's go ahead and put the rates into effect, with a couple of provisos. First, tax all contributions given to lawmakers from TARP accepting companies at the same rate, back dated to the beginning of a lawmaker’s election. Secondly, have lawmakers pay the same max marginal rate the highest incomes earn no matter what. While we're at it, let's put our lawmakers and administration personnel, including the president, under the military Tricare (Try-to-get Care as I call it) system as the veterans get.

Bardiel
Yes. Those that I own lost more value yesterday. We're really getting the "change we can beleive in" epsecially since it is negative change in the value of investment accounts!

EXEMPTIONS
I bet the exemptions to a 90% tax will be entertainers and athletes. Including leftist movie directors.

What is so
grating is anyone with their eyes and ears open should have known Obama is in to Socialist models of govt. Historically dems have raised taxes without the current push Obummer Chavez is providing.

We knew it was a done deal when he let the cat out fo the bag with Joe the Plumber but the uniformed, poorly educated thought it sounded good if they heard it at all through the love affair and spin of your NBC/NBC networks Mr. Kudlow......

Obummer Chavez is right on target and will keepl pushing the envelope everyday to break this country down into a Socialist society.

I just hope the MSM sellouts and kool aid drinkers understand what they have propogated. I see Cramer and Santelli fell right back into line after being chastized by the left for speaking the truth, how weak and pathetic you guys have become. Along with the weak Repubs in Congress who voted for this tax, shame on you for squandering a chance to do the RIGHT thing....

Wake Up Larry

Kenley - tax rates etc.

Yep. On the books, tax rates were much higher prior to Reagan. BUT, and it's a big but, the array of allowable deductions did serve to moderate the hit to a degree. The middle class did grow, after WWII, and sometime in the mid 1950's the stock market got back to the range of valuation it had before the 1929 crash. Plus we had the electronics revolution and associated innovations, which drove real wealth in a way even government intervention couldn't prevent, despite its best efforts.

We also lost innumerable opportunities in that era due to overly burdensome government. We were poised to exploit space, harness nuclear power to eliminate our dependence upon foreign energy sources, plus other things we'll never able to really account for their non-existence. Why? Via the 'great society' pogroms (not a typo) we transferred trillions of dollars from productive use to enlarging government and bureaucratic reach into our personal lives. We threw away wealth at rates beyond imagination.

Ever wonder why we have more lawyers than engineers and scientists? Think about it...


Kenley - freedom, perfection etc. [1/2]

As you rightly say, there is no such thing as a perfect system. Take a careful look at history - most of the devastation visited upon people has been at the hands of their governments, local warlords, etc.

Slavery was a blot on this country, and we've paid for it dearly - lives of people held in involuntary servitude, 500,000 dead in the War Between the States, plus a lot of societal turmoil. But historical fact of slavery has nothing to do with the question at hand: do you trust you to control yourself or do you need the government to run your life for you?

Farmers may have problems with Monsanto, but only because of special status enjoyed by a corporate entity that could only be granted by government. That is called corporatism, and has exactly nothing to do with laissez faire. But since you brought up farmers, that group has been plagued with more governmental meddling than just about any actors in the private economy, having to figure out how to make money in an environment dominated by warped incentives induced by subsidies, land set-asides, production limits, etc. My late father-in-law advocated elimination of all this, so the real farmers could get on with the business, leaving the 'hobby farmers' as he termed them to go out of business.


Kenley - freedom, perfection etc. [2/2]
Walmart is probably about as close to a large capitalist enterprise as anything left in this country. The folks who cannot effectively compete with Walmart, end up becoming employees of other companies or starting up other entities. Freedom and capitalism does not guarantee results, only opportunity. Mom and Pop businesses survive if they are willing to compete and adapt .. they aren't exempt from the market.

A careful reading of history will make it clear that the last time we had anything approximating free-market capitalism in this country, spats and buggy whips were in style. And we are all poorer for our failure to defend economic freedom.

One more time: what we're seeing around us today could have only have been created by government intervention in the economy. A free market has its own rigors, but this nonsense would not be happening.

Article I, Section 9, Clause 3 ..
of the U.S. Constitution is worth reflecting upon: "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed."

Bill of Attainder: "A bill of attainder (also known as an act or writ of attainder or bill-of-attainder) is an act of legislature declaring a person or group of persons guilty of some crime and punishing them without benefit of a trial." {Wikipedia}

Ex post facto: literally, "An ex post facto law (from the Latin for "after the fact") or retroactive law, is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences of acts committed or the legal status of facts and relationships that existed prior to the enactment of the law." {Wikipedia}

Mr. Kudlow's subject, HR 1586, passed last week by the House, hits the 'daily double', in that it violates both portions of the Art I, Sec. 9, Cl. 3. Ignore lawyerly parsing of language to dress this pig in a legal pinafore. HR 1586 would never exist had there not been a desire to exact vengeance for Congress being embarrassed by the AIG actions which were explicitly approved in the Porkulus bill. This is the power of government focused upon a small group of people in an act of revenge.

However offensive it might be, do not forget that $165M is comparatively small change and a diversion from the *TRILLIONS* being burned by Congress and the Administration. Keep your eyes on the ball, people!

Bud
Right on, guy... and, Thank you!

Hidden Agenda? Part 1
No doubt there is a hidden agenda, but it has nothing to do with Obama's socialist inclinations.
The vicious reactions, especially by key politicians whose campaigns have been funded by AIG, amount to political grandstanding and noise to cover the tracks of the good-old-boys in the government who conspired with their AIG buddies to allow for the bonuses.
Many in congress have been padding their own pockets and those of their special interest group friends for years without consequences, and this time I'm sure they thought they hit the mother lode with billions of dollars for the taking. For them it was just business as usual until America caught wind of the swindle. Once that happened the snakes started eating their own tales to survive the political backlash.
Now those snakes (aka: congress people) are saying that they had no idea what was happening, though they voted for the legislation. Their excuse for voting without knowing is that they didn't really have time to read the legislation before voting for it. Even if that were true , they should be still be held accountable. Why would we accept that someone is taking our money without them even making an effort to know where they're going to allocate it (worse yet, doing so without our consent)?
The bottom line is that they knew well beforehand. The contracts were approved by Geithner and his staff, and the subsequent legislation was passed by members of congress months before the bonuses were paid out. Did congressional members still not have time to read what they voted for months after the fact? Those in charge of oversight of the government's 80% stake in AIG let the first round of bonuses get through in December without saying anything; and they didn't raise a stink about it when AIG filed their intentions with the SEC to distribute the bonuses in Nov. 2008.

Part 2 continued in next post...

Hidden Agenda? Part 2
All the abuse of power that congress is enacting now: using tax law as retribution; calling their Attorney General friends in various states to try to prosecute recipients of legal contracts; all of these things are noise and sleight of hand to distract from the fact that several members of congress (and the president) were very much a part of the swindle.
I'm fed up, and I'm going to do something about it. If I have to send 20 letters a day, open a web site that allows people like me to spam congress everyday with complaints, or simply fly to Washington to protest, I have to do something. Does anyone else feel the same way?
It seems like history is repeating itself with Nero and Marie Antoinette reincarnated as congress and our new president.
ARRGHH!

Wag the Dog
This drama has always seemed suspicious. Then I turned on the RV and saw those union members with their preprinted signs. If I could have one wish it would be to end war room propaganda.

Mr. Kudlow makes too many assumptions
The problems addressed in this article seem to be related but, in my opinion, are actually not.

First, the unconstitutional singling out of a single group for a punitive tax rate is completely wrong and endangers everyone if allowed to stand.

From this point on the article wanders off into economic never-never-land. We, the taxpayers, didn't ask to be shareholders in AIG but our government made us shareholders and gave us a voice in this matter.

I remain unconvinced that these executives meet the definition of "best and brightest" when they have managed to dig this kind of hole. Also, in light of the current job market, it begs the question; Where are they going to go?

Is there a long list of companies paying huge sums of money to headhunt executives coming off a $165 billion dollar loss?

It's nonsensical to be discussing free market principles and trying to apply that to a company that put it's hand out to the taxpayer. Free market principles demanded that AIG go into bankruptcy.

So, spare me the best and the brightest talk, and the justification for huge retention bonuses for this or any other bailed out company. They have clearly demonstrated that they are not.

And Yet Budget Provokes NO OUTRAGE!
Yes, the American people are sheeple! They are stupid! Who really cares about the outrage over Congressionally-approved paltry millions when TRILLIONS are on the line? Obama is giving us budget deficits of $1 trillion per year/ >4% of GDP which we are told is "unsustainable". Where is the outrage? Obama is intentionally bankrupting the country and where is the outrage?

Do you people really not see what the future holds with this evil clown in the White House? I'm absolutely certain he will make a grab for the remaining part of your 401(k) and stupid, illiterate Americans will praise the idea. He'll make a grab for all of your assets and property - the Constitution be damned. Americans will praise that as some kind of "bold move" from the messiah. As a nation, we're too dumb and corrupt to survive.

I only hope Al Quaeda drops the bomb on D.C. before he can implement all of this.

90% taxes? Think again...
Remember, if they can do it to AIG executives, they can do it to you. A government big enough to "give" you all you "need" is big enough to take all you have.

And, regrettably, a large fraction of the citizenry is beholden to government for funding (almost half pay no income tax) and seeks more.

US Patriot 56- Appleseed Project
You wrote- "This 500-yard range is traditionally known as "the rifleman's quarter-mile;" a rifleman can hit just about any target he can see."

The only question is what shade of blue the targets will wear- Obama's blueshirts or UN blue helmets.

Why didn't they give gaurantees
Why did the Congress vote to give AIG CASH. Why didn't they negotiate with AIG, and those AIG owed to not pay top dollar?

AIG paid 100 cents on the dollar. They apparently didn't send some one out to assess the damage and paid what the companies asked.


Janey the real hidden agenda
Check previous posts. The Congress has a history of writing legislation that leads to catastrophe. 1982 Garn St Germain created the S&L crisis, Co-Sponcors Charles Schumer, Steny Hoyer.

Most the members of Congress were around during the 80's and the bailout. Most voted for the 2000 piece of legislation that allowed for the bundling of assets.

They voted to give AIG cash not gaurantees. Cash to be funneled out 100 cents on the dollar no questions asked.

If I were in congress I would rather you complain about these taxes than the incompetence that got us to this point.

Liberals are filled with hatred
And the people they love to hate most are successful people in general (and George W. Bush in particular.) Do you make good money? Liberals hate you because they're sure you must have stolen it from poor people. That is, after all, they only way people can make money isn't it - by stealing a larger slice of the pie?

Larry misses a couple of points here, though, maybe because he didn't want to delve too deeply into them. First, almost no one ever paid marginal taxes in excess of 90%, because Congress provides so many social engineering-driven loopholes for wealthy individuals to take advantage of. Tax-free municipal bonds, for example, were a popular one up until the Reagan tax cuts.

Second, truly rich people (like John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, and Al Gore) have lots of wealth but very little traditional income and therefore pay very little in taxes for the most part. It's the high-income members of the upper middle class who get socked with tax increases. Since these people are doctors, lawyers, and entrepreneurs for the most part, when they pay excessive taxes that give them disincentives to work, the economy as a whole is worse off. Liberals, however, are too filled with hatred for them to care.

no debate
They are bent on the tax -- unsitutional or not -- all else be danged. And they are digging in to cover their hides. This just might be the line in the sand, or lack of one, the Democrats needed to open the flood gates and tune America's ear to tax-hike talk. (but any debate about it will be out of the question)
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.