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Friday, January 30, 2009
Larry Kudlow :: Townhall.com Columnist
Shelve the Stimulus
by Larry Kudlow
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Wednesday night’s House tally on the Democratic stimulus package, where not a single Republican voted in favor, was another shot across the bow for this incredibly unmanageable $900 billion behemoth of a program that truly will not stimulate the economy. Sure, the Democrats won on a party-line count. But Team Obama is now regrouping in the face of mounting criticism of this package.

GOP economist Martin Feldstein revoked his prior support of a stimulus plan in Wednesday’s Washington Post. "In its current form," Feldstein wrote, "[the plan] does too little to raise national spending and employment. It would be better for the Senate to delay legislation for a month, or even two, if that’s what it takes to produce a much better bill. We cannot afford an $800 billion mistake."

Clinton economic adviser Alice Rivlin made the same point in testimony before the House Budget Committee. Her message: Divide up the package and slow down the process.

And Sen. Richard Shelby told CNBC that Washington should "shelve the stimulus package" and instead attack the banking and credit problem first -- probably with a government-sponsored bad bank that would relieve financial institutions from their toxic-asset problem. Mr. Shelby believes the credit crunch remains the biggest obstacle to economic recovery.

Later in the day when I interviewed Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell, he agreed with Shelby that the stimulus plan should be shelved. For the first time -- as far as I know -- McConnell pledged to vote no on the package. Instead he wants larger tax cuts and smaller spending. McConnell might be willing to change his mind if the package changes, but he told me he didn’t expect that to happen.

And in what may prove to be the biggest stimulus-package hurdle of all, news reports suggest that Team Obama is contemplating as much as $2 trillion in TARP additions to rescue the banking system in one form or another. That would be $2 trillion on top of the nearly $1 trillion stimulus package.

Government spending, deficits, and debt creation of this magnitude is simply unheard of. So the added TARP money will surely imperil the entire stimulus package as taxpayers around the country begin to digest the enormity of these proposed government actions. Financing of this type would not only destroy the U.S. fiscal position for years to come, it could destroy the dollar in the process. What’s more, the likelihood of massive tax increases -- which at some point will become front and center in this gargantuan funding operation -- would doom the economy for decades.

By the way, Scott Rasmussen’s latest poll shows that already -- before the new TARP money is included -- public support for the humongous stimulus package has dropped to 42 percent.

It remains to be seen whether Republicans can in fact stop the stimulus package, but that certainly would be a very good idea. The long-run financial consequences will certainly force higher future tax rates -- a prosperity killer feared by Arthur Laffer. And while all the social spending gets baked into the long-run budget baseline, the short-run implications of the plan have little economic-growth potential.

Meanwhile, there’s no shortage of alternative tax proposals that would truly re-ignite the economy. Former Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush economist Larry Lindsey criticized the Democrat package in Wednesday morning’s Wall Street Journal, describing it as "heavily weighted toward direct government spending, transfers to state and local governments, and tax changes that have virtually no effect on marginal tax rates." Instead, Lindsey proposes a big payroll tax cut that would slice three points off the rate for both employer and employee.

Rush Limbaugh also made an appearance in the Journal. He has a clever idea to give Obama 54 percent of the $900 billion package -- equating that amount to the new president’s electoral majority -- while 46 percent, which was John McCain’s electoral tally, would go to a plan that would halve the U.S. corporate tax rate and provide a capital-gains tax holiday for one year, after which the investment tax would drop to 10 percent.

It was Sen. John McCain on Fox News last Sunday who started the stimulus revolt when he said he couldn’t support the package and called for less spending along with a large corporate tax cut. Over in the House, Republican leaders John Boehner and Eric Cantor have successfully launched an opposition drumbeat by attacking congressional Democrats rather than directly hitting President Obama. Now all eyes will turn to Republican Senate leader Mitch McConnell to see if he can keep up this drumbeat.

Will commonsense Americans really support a massive overdose of government run amok? I seriously doubt it. This whole story has to be completely rethought.

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About The Author

Lawrence Kudlow is host of CNBC's Kudlow & Company

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unbelievable!
I just can't begin to fathom the ill effects of this stimulus package...then to think that Obama wants 2 trillion more in TARP $!!! Who are his advisers...it seems as thought they are trying to destroy this country on purpose as fast as possible! I am a simple, college-educated mom that sits down every month to pay the bills, and even I can see the disaster that will ensue...if this were my approach to budgeting, I would put my family out on the street in no time flat.

If the goal is to turn us into slaves of the government, they are on the right track. Funny coming from an African-American President. Our entire existence would be to serve the government by force...our country and the world would be the worse for it! yw

"an $800B mistake" ?
More appropriate to label it a DISGRACE & damn you fools for trying to push it through w/o a timely review.

THE FOIE GRASING OFAMERICA
AFLAC DUCK WARNS:
Socialac force feeding America Stimulac bill. Ahhhhh..........
Read it at, http://stopthepresses2.blogspot.com/search/label/Aflac%20D uck

Outstanding Kudlow!
There may be hope yet as there's nothing like rampant unemployment to awaken and focus the minds of the slumbering electorate on this fetid pile of a "stimulus" package! Is it possible for the liberals in congress to get serious when serious problems need addressing ... Nancy Pelosi proves otherwise!

You Forgot About Hyper-Inflation, Larry
My real concern is that this $3 trillion dollars is money the government is just printing up, with a likely extra $1 trillion every year of the Obama Administration.

Theres only one end to that story: Hyper-inflation on par with Weimar Republic Germany and assorted African Kleptocracies like Rawanda. We're talking about the dollar becoming WORTHLESS! We're talking about a future time when a wheel barrow full of money won't buy a loaf of bread. That would in turn lead us to total economic collapse, falling back to a feudal barter economy.

After that: Mass famine, as interstate moving of freight ceases to exist (Truckers won't be able to buy gas, and companies won't be able to pay employees with a worthless currency).

I suppose that if your true aim was to engineer a fascist dictatorship in America, the Obamunist plan for our economy makes sense, but only in that sense.

Spending got us into this mess
I am flabbergasted at the idiocy of our elected officials, Of the many reasons causing this financial fiasco, one was Bush's out of control spending. So why does more spending solve the problem, when excessive spending helped get us into it??


Excessive borrowing

Excessive borrowing got us into this mess.

What is the Liberals solution? More excessive borrowing.


It is well
The Democrat Party owns this abomination lock, stock and barrel. Addicted as they are to their own fairy tales, especially the ones about FDR they are marching over the cliff like lemmings with attitude. Only difference with their furry counterparts is that they drive all the rest of us over the cliff with them. However, there is no way this nation is not going to end up a second rate power after all this nonsense settles down, so best to leave it with the ignoramuses of the liberal party to own their own nightmare all by their lonesomes.

The last eight years with the profligate Congress and the appalling George W. Bush will seem like the halcyon times in comparison.

It's all about power
The Dems and Obama know this "stimulus" bill won't stimulate or create jobs.

They want it because it will increase the size and power of government. Period.

Economy May Not Need Huge Jolt
Main Street is not the Problem. Wall Street is. Let de-leveraging continue on Wall Street, and cut corporate taxes for Main Street.

This is the best solution.

Keep in mind. There are 12 quarters since 1948 that had worse (in some cases much worse, 1958, 1975, 1980, 1981, 1982) results than Q4 2008.

Investor's Perspective
"Fool me once shame on you...fool me twice shame on me!"

Russia, China, Brazil, Saudi Arabia etc., are mad as hell about America's Ponzi scheme. Our government pulled a "Madoff" on all international investors.

This "Stimulus" bill is yet another cruel joke and investors simply aren't buying it. It's an insult to their collective intelligence.

The only practical "Stimulus" would be to regain investors confidence. This obviously won't happen under a Dem watch.

What do lawyers know about economics anyway ?

Karl Marx would hate this stimulus.
Even if you were a hard core Communist or Socialist this plan makes no sense.

For example, if the govt came up with 1000 labor intensive projects as a stimulus package, that would be Socialism. But at least it holds an ounce of logic. Funding arts and rubbers on the other hand....

Buying votes
Is an expensive proposition. this is stimulus alright. It will just stimulate those who were already stimulated by a rookie politician/college professor/lawyer with no accomplishments to speak of.

Anybody agreeing to this crazy idea without a reasonable debate perios is a TRAITOR.

This is a golden chance to flush out traitors.

How about it trolls?

Are you for this boondoggle?

Please show yourselves and let your voices be heard. Please let us know what is good about this "stimulus"

Barack Obama is a charlatan
this shameful and illicit power grab will NOT go unforgotten.

republicans...
sure have alot to say now. When Bush dug us into this mess, I heard nothing, nada, zilch (as Guiliani would say) from Republicans. The same hypocrites that voted against this bill in the House - and are soooooo very proud of themselves - voted repeatedly for the same type of spending over the past 8 years. I love this convenient "we've seen the light" crap!

Sure, I agree the bill has some issues and should be tweaked. But please Republicans stop being so pathetically partisan. You can't go along with the chorus when your guy is singing the lead, then when the mike is passed to the new person, all of a sudden you don't know the tune! It's phoney outrage by Republicans and is shameful.

Obama is on unchartered territory. All of us are. A better, more viable solution needs to be found. But please quit believing that the only solution are the ones Republicans come up with. Solutions which were silent for 8 years. Give me a break.

It's ridiculous that people are more hell bent on staying on "their side" than really working together to come up with a solution. And that goes for BOTH sides. This whole economic mess is nothing but a result of irresponsibility on both sides. Yet we continue on with the same right/left ignorance that got us here in the first place. NO PARTY owns the patent on SMART!

Filibuster!
Republicans should filibuster this bill if that is the only way to stop it

The Stupidity
... of the Democrat Party is just apocalyptic. A rational president would be talking up the economy every day, acting as a champion of a recovering economy and predicting a booming economy in the near future. Instead, Barack Obama is talking down the economy every day to get the so-called stimulus bill passed, a poke-stuffed monstrosity, which no one of any experience and economic sense thinks will work.

There are many experts who could advise POB the best way to revive the economy but, obviously, he is not listening to them. Cutting the capital gains tax is one way, as Kudlow points out.

You can't revive the economy by criticizing businesses, businessmen, and companies every day you go in front of the microphones.

As I said above the Democrats are either very stupid or they really want to destroy the economy so they can install socialist principles--everyone is equally poor.

But here's a reality check for Obama, Reid, and Pelosi: If the economy hasn't revived by 2010 you all are history!

Michael Steele
just announced his win as head of the RNC. Great guy!! I wish him well.

Hey Purple
I think you miss the entire conservative point.. We never wanted any bailout of any kind. Republican driven or Liberal driven... Government shouldn't have it's hand in business. Government does one thing well, protect us from out enemies. The rest is complete waste. Forget the partisan argument, forget the finger pointing.

Government if in the private sector would collapse because it is not sound business. So as that is the case, why don't you forget your "IDEAS", when history shows, all over the world, government intervention in business only creates less business.
Join the Conservatives, I didn't say Republicans, learn the difference and say no to Government handouts of any kind. Lower the tax rate across the board and watch what real conservative economics does for out country..

correction...
out should be our... I make that typo all the time.. uugghh..

Purplegraze
I realize you believe in what you say, but you're wrong. I, for one, long before the election, had come to the realization that President Barack Hussein Mengele Obama and I did not agree on one single issue. Since, in addition, I am adamantly pro-life, I will stand against anything he, Nancy, Dingy Harry, C. Dodd, B. Frank,Little Chuckie Schumer, either Clinton, or anyone related to the Kennedy family, by birth or by marriage, or by osmosis. These people are vile along with this stimulus bill which will not lead to economic health but to slavery.

baseballfan
I hear what you're saying but if Republicans were so against any type of stimulus, why did plenty of them vote for the first one? They are changing their tune once the lead is being sung by someone else. simple as that. but on a whole, I agree with much of what you said and appreciate and intelligent reply.

Peggy, I won't acknowledge your ignorant reply, since you decided to fill it with a bunch of childish nonsense of the same type found here - variations on Obama's name, using Hussein, which he was sworn in office using and is not an insult (thus you should kill it) and invoking all kinds of ramble about being pro-life, which is not the point of my comment. I'm pro choice, and wearing blue jeans today? do either of those things have anything to do with what I said? buzz off!

Does anyone really believe that
the now $900,000,000,000.00 stimulus project is going to stop at that number? This program started at $750,000,000,000.00 and then advanced to $800,000,000,000.00 and now has accelerated to $900,000,000,000.00. What is the extra $150,000,000,000.00 for? I don't believe that anyone in Congress has actually read this bill. How can Congress figure out, in such a short period of time, how to spend that much money responsibly when it takes our them an entire fiscal year plus a few continuing resolutions to invent the annual "budget"? The obvious answer is that this is not responsible, rather it is the first spending installment of a party that is drunk with power and ready to cram anything and everything liberal down the throats of conservatives and the American public. Republicans MUST do what ever they can to try to stop this stampede of economic insanity in the Senate and every Senate Republican MUST hold the line and follow the lead of their brethren in the House and vote NO.

Obama must be stopped
http://www.cafepress.com/Philosufism/6337619

Michael Steele is First Black RNC chair

Great News! ! Michael Steele is first black RNC chairman.

WASHINGTON – Michael Steele was elected Republican National Committee chairman on Friday, defeating the incumbent party chief and three other challengers over six rounds of voting to become the first black to lead the GOP. The former Maryland lieutenant governor takes over a beleaguered GOP as Republicans seek to rebound from back-to-back defeats in national elections that gave Democrats control of Congress and the White House.

"As a little boy growing up in this town, this is awesome," said Steele, the most moderate candidate in the field and considered an outsider because he's not a committee member.

In a brief acceptance speech, the new GOP chairman struck a tone of inclusiveness.

"We're going to say to friend and foe alike: We want you to be a part of us, we want you to with be with us, and for those who wish to obstruct, get ready to get knocked over," Steele said.

He won 91 votes out of a possible 168 in the sixth round. A simple majority of 85 was needed, but it took six rounds for Steele to win."

Pretty Smart
to change around the Porkulus Plan and wait . Wait for the Public to calm down. Wait for the GOP high to wear off,distract us with attacks on Rush,the Bad ole Bankers,some sob stories in the news about how tough it is out there,more stats on lost homes,unemployment,failed businesses,and every cat caught in a tree accross the fruited plain.

Heck no don't let the momentum slow after the stance our guys took in the House. Keep working,calling,emailing,talking,anything you can do. Barry and the boys , ok and Nancy, think they can bamboozle us and then bring that monster back..or..in pieces with a few goodies we want. Beware!

Scarlett
is your head really as empty as it sounds?

Crazy Obama policies
When has reckless government spending ever saved an economy. This guy is a clown and as bad as the economy is, he is driving it to the grave. Obama really needs to calm public nerves over the this crazy spending and he is hoping the Republican will give him credibility. The House Republicans denied it to him. Let's home the Senate Republicans are as couragous.

Deep disappointment
I think many conservatives would share my deep disappointment that Bush and the Republicans did not stand up for the principles and went along with the so called stimulous in 2008. They should have fought hard for supply side tax cuts rather than more government spending and transfer of wealth.

Purplegraze and Scarlett
I could not care less if the GOP goes the way of the Whigs. The GOP that voted for Bush's spending is wrong and needs to be defeated. Many conservatives here made that point for years.

After 6 years of beating up the economy, to a bloody pulp, the Obamabots are like the dog who finally caught the car that they have been chasing for 6 years.

What now?

The only ideas that WILL work are those that have only been talked about and never really tried. CONSERVATIVE ideas.

Reagan and Gingrich gave them a little lip service, but liberal, big government spending has been incrementally increasing for over 75 years.

It is high time we went on a diet, but the only way that will happen is if the mushy, moderate, fairly uninformed portion of the electorate stands against this travesty.

Economic Stimulus
Every time an economic issue comes up for discussion on these boards, there are always naysayers that attack "Republican" economic policies and say that they are flawed in some form or fashion. Then the dig is made that this mess is all "Bush's fault".

First (and foremost), as another poster pointed out, there is often a big difference between conservative economic principles and Republican economic policies. Not all Republicans are conservative...I would not characterize President Bush as an economic conservative, or most of the recent Republican congressional leadership.

Second, it might be that my math is faulty, but for the life of me I cannot see how cutting the tax rates for business wouldn't immediately add cash to the private sector. Frankly, our corporate tax rates are too high to begin with (as are most other tax rates), but the solution to this mess is not to increase government spending. It is to increase the cash available in the private sector, through businesses keeping more of their revenues, which should help to make up for the very (!!) tight credit market.

So, if someone can point me to credible data that shows that cutting corporate tax (not to mention personal) rates wouldn't help to stimulate the economy, I would be more than happy to reconsider my position. Until then, I think the government is barking up the proverbial wrong tree.

Does anyone know which Dems voted no?
I'd like to thank them! Along with every House Republican.

SHELVE the stimulus?
How about FLUSH it and send it where it deserves to go? Kudlow missed a point here - even if Republicans can't stop this nonsense, a year or two from now, when it's clear to everyone that the stimulus package made the economy much worse, they can all say "I told you so" on the way to taking back Congress. Then, in 2012, we can Carterize Obama like he deserves, hopefully installing the next Reagan in office.

As for "purplegraze", who said "When Bush dug us into this mess, I heard nothing, nada, zilch (as Guiliani would say) from Republicans", all I can answer is that you didn't hear that from me, buddy. Anyway, we have to draw the line somewhere, sometime, and here and now seems as good as any place and time to do it.

And no, Scarlett, we have to live in this country, too, so we don't want Obama to fail. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), he's doing just fine on his own.

Scarlet O'Hara
I don't know why you chose the title of one of the most self reliant women every portrayed in films before the sissy liberals took over that industry but you wouldn't even be worthy to lift her petticoat.
She was a young woman who started in the story as a liberal lady who thought she was entitled to her position in life with all the perks provided by the labor of others(slaves).
When she matured and experienced life she grew into someone who knew if she wanted success she would have to work for it.
In the end she learned the ultimate lesson that taking people for granted and using them cost her everything she cared about.
So please give up your pretense of wisdom and strength, you are not fooling anyone here.
You have nothing to teach those of us who have experienced real life and have seen liberal policies fail.

Don't Shelve it, Burn It
Most of the package could be privately funded with out tapping tax payers for the bill. Congress should just burn the stupid thing right out on the White House Lawn and then get back to work.

just a reminder
Hey folks reading this and having fun discussing hypotheticals here's a reminder and really the MOST important thing;IT"S ALL ILLEGAL!! Do you understand what I'm saying? It's not just that the "stimulus" plan is a bad idea Congress does not have the legally given authority by the Constitution to do this, PERIOD. The powers that Congress has are enumerated in Article 1, section 8, and when we get caught up in discussions other than what the Federal government is allowed to do WE LOSE. Slowly over time power has been usurped and we have learned to think of our current way of doing business as legitimate, but it's not, and those in Congress who will not fight for Constitutional government and seek to rally the people in support should be cast aside. That includes Boehner and Canto who advocated lesser versions which are still without Constitutional merit.

Millions of unemployed people......
would appreciate a stimulus check, however that may be done constitutionally.....and they would spend it immediately (a stipulation for the stimulus check would be to have been employed for a period of six months or more in the last year). In addition, cutting capital gains taxes by 25% and taxpayers' taxes at each level would complete the package. The latter would create more permanent jobs from the private sector. These changes alone will spur economic recovery.

However it can be done, whether by a stimulus check or by extension of unemployment compensation or by ????, we do really need to get some help to the millions of unemployed.

The only other ways they may get help are drying up because of overuse......like the food banks etc. Until these people can get jobs, every little bit helps. Can you imagine losing most or all of your 401K AND your job? These people need help.

Walter
The Dems that voted NO on the House stimulus:
Rep. Gene Taylor, MS-4
Rep. Heath Shuler, NC-11
Rep. Collin Peterson, MN-7
Rep. Walter Minnick, ID-1
Rep. Frank Kratovil, MD-1
Rep. Paul Kanjorski, PA-11
Rep. Parker Griffith, AL-5
Rep. Brad Ellsworth, IN-8
Rep. Jim Cooper, TN-5
Rep. Bobby Bright, AL-2
Rep. F. Boyd, FL-2

The more we know...
The more we learn about this stinking heap of dung, the more it begins to smell like a stinking heap of dung.

A bad bill is never better than no bill at all. Republicans would do Democrats...and the country...a favor by killing this in the Senate.

$2 trillion more on top of the $1 tril
Quick math...that's $10,000 for every American citizen! $40,000 for a family of 4! And that's above and beyond the normal spending, which is already in deficit mode. And we thought BUSH was out of control...!

Correction
That's $1,000 and $4,000. But it's still too much.

Pamela
I am with you.
However, I would like to see the whole tax code
thrown in the manure pit where it belongs. It's unwieldy, unfair and enslaving..unless of course you happen to be one in charge of writing it like Charlie Rangel..skipped out on 73.000..claimed ignorance..would that work for you or me? Geithner Tres. Sec., my Senators told me he was too qualified (just like RINO HATCH, The Swimmers best buddy )..$43,000 and now along comes Daschle..$100,000 two guys with hiccups. Isn't it nice, they don't have to obey anything as mundane as the law. They get
a pass whereas anyone of us,including the trolls would be hit with hefty fines, and maybe jail time. Now with this (love it Rush) Porkulus, our kids, grandkids and yet to be born great grandkids will be enslaved.
It's because I am a patriotic American that I DON'T want this marxist to succeed, nor do I want Dumb and Dumber to succeed. THis porkulus is part of the agenda..Do we want Obama to succeed in getting this passed? My gov is already setting up a cronacracy to dole out the
$25 billion he wants without any OVERSIGHT. The Repubs had a bill that would mandate oversight and to make sure the money was going where designated and the Democrat majority voted it down..kickbacks are so nice these days.

Bait Pile Politics
If you throw a loaf of bread on the beach you’ll have a bunch of seagulls squawking and trying to establish a peck order while protecting their turf.

The stimulus package is the typical bait pile politics of the left.

If you stop feeding the seagulls the seagulls would go fish for them selves.

Larry the CFR man
"I suppose that if your true aim was to engineer a fascist dictatorship in America, the Obamunist plan for our economy makes sense, but only in that sense.

That IS the plan. Larry knows this as well, since he is a member of CFR. Larry is on board with killing our country to create the NAU and the New World Order. Anything he has to say is a joke.


`````````````
Since all Communists and their Insider bosses are waging a constant struggle for SOCIALISM, let us define that term. Socialism is usually defined as gov ownership and/or control over the basic means of production and distribution of goods and services. When analyzed this means gov control over everything, including you. All controls are “people” controls. If the gov controls these areas it can eventually do just exactly as Marx set out to do- destroy the right to private property, eliminate the family and wipe out religion….

The idea that socialism is a share-the-wealth program is strictly a confidence game to get the people to surrender their freedom to an all-powerful collectivist gov. While the Insiders tell us we are building a paradise on earth, we are actually constructing a jail for ourselves.


```````````

"If one understands that socialism is not a share-the-wealth program, but is in reality a method to consolidate and control the wealth, then the seeming paradox of super-rich men promoting socialism becomes no paradox at all. Instead, it becomes logical, even the perfect tool for power-seeking megalomaniacs. Communism or more accurately, socialism, is not a movement of the downtrodden masses, but of the economic elite."



Anna: If What You Say Is True
Everything you just described were true, it would portend a civil war again here in America. This is the reason gun control laws and ammunition taxes are so popular with our leaders.

So the biq question is, could the country fight a civil war and fight our enemies too?

Just A Suggestion: Get On The Phone Now
Let's not throw in the towel just yet. I would strongly suggest that all of us who understand the consequences of this bill get on the phone and call all our Senators now. Right now let them know you will actively campaign against them next time they are up for election; make it clear a "yes" vote ends their career. Then email them. If you have time send a letter now.

Americans need to ROAR, and they need to do it NOW. Someone once wrote, "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country." The time is now.

One term, and one term only......



......keep telling yourselves - "Obama and his ex-Clinton hacks (including the Wicked Witch herself) WILL ONLY BE WITH US ONE TERM.....

.....ONE TERM........

.....ONE TERM........

.....ONE TERM........

Stimulus? What stimulus?

I haven't seen a stimulus package yet.

Duhhh ! Don Wang !

Those Dems are voting against The Porkubus Bill because they are afraid that their constituents will throw them out of office in 2010.

And Ya know what Wang ?

They're Right !

Has Obama
paid Peggy Joseph's mortgage and gas bill yet?

Finally, some sense here...
What a contrast in Kudlow's article of principle: stop the government takeover compared to Barone's weak demographic argument in another article that Republicans should go more liberal to win elections.

In one fell swoop, the conservative Republicans are back in the saddle and making hay, and the American people are coming around to understand the economic stupidity of the Dems and Obama.

And Kudlow indadvertently made Barone's argument look rather silly and dated in one day.

Bravo, Larry!!

Thanks to Brickhouse
Thanks Brickhouse for your commonsense solution, if you can't phone them then e-mail them;

http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml

and thanks Dumb Juan for the names of those Democrats I had meant to e-mail them a thank you for doing the right thing. Let's not forget that anytime The Great Oz looses, we the people win.

Pamela & Brickhouse-Thanks
Pamela,

Thanks for the list.

Brickhouse,

Have already written both VA senators ( Dems unfortunately, but I think Webb may have common sense)

Hey Don Wang !

Didn't Ya Get The Memo.

Bush ain't President No Mo ,Obama Is !

And Wang,The Pelosi/Reid Democrat Controlled Congress passed BOTH Porkubus Bills.


Dems in Washington "Own This PORK SANDWICH Now.

Disaster in the Making
It is imperative that this "bailout program" be reconfigured. It does not create private sector jobs, much of it is "pork", it creates a permanent "underclass", and most importantly, it subverts the tenets upon which this country was founded. I fervently hope that the Senate has the common sense and intestinal fortitude to reject this most destructive bill - the future of the country rests in the balance.

Human Beings Are Insane
This package will go through. Huge amounts of money will be created and wasted. The dollar will end up in crisis and the world will suffer for our stupidity. Why? Because people are nuts. They know what they are doing is inherently bad yet go ahead and do it anyway. This will end very, very badly and most likely with a big war.

It seems that the only thing that brings people to their senses is the massive spilling of blood. As I said, we're nuts.

I think the Democrats just ....
I think the Democrats just showed they are hateful, egotistical, selfish, have no idea what our Constitution says (or do not care!), do not give a hoot about us taxpayers, and, last but not least, economically challenged!

Aha!!
Back in the runnup to the election, I joined the group that refused to vote for McCain. My core reason is that i have come to believe that any reason to vote except for the good of the country is what has got us here. That includes "strategy" votes, identity votes, pocketbook votes, he's a nice man/woman votes and lesser of 2 evils votes. In addition, some possibilities were bruited about. One virtually certain possibility was that a McCain presidency would result in same-O same-O with the lose/lose situation of left wing big govt interference and spending would be in place while unused conservative principles would get blamed for the lousy results. However, with a Dumbo in there, sure to raise spending, the remaining Repubs might just choose to piously revert to the role of fiscal responsiblility they rejected when they had the hammer. And so they have, earlier and more completely than i hoped. Never would this have happened with McCain in there, and judging by the actions of Bush and Co in the last few weeks of his admin, if McCain were taking over, the earmarkedpork bill would be law of the land already.

I hope you are wrong TruLib,
but I fear you are right.

Obama is in a crisis. One one hand, he is telling us that we are in an emergency that demands immediate and strong action. On the other hand, the strong action he is proposing is looking more and more dangerous every day. The more it is examined and debated, the more we realize that his strong action is not so immediate after all. I think he assumed that his rhetoric would hold up long enough to get the bill passed. There is still hope for him. After All, the MSM is still on his side and will only report rhetoric and will not check facts.

Just Two Points To Make
If I only had to pay half of my income tax, I would be in a position to spend much of it - primarily paying any debt that I have, some insignificant stuff, and the remainder would go to savings. Isn't that the goal of the stimulus give-away? And no 500 page legislation needed - just one or two sentences. That is stimulus. Second point - John McShame and his vote. When he was asked that question he stumbled on it for a few moments than spoke the party line. When it gets to the point of voting for or against - he will be voting with the Democrat bloc. And that is John McShame.

TeeHall
I'm not a fan of McCain either, but I saw him on some show the other day and he said the economy was bad and then added "but it will get better". That, to me, was presidential. I don't understand why Obama can't ever say anything like that. Apparently, the man who ran on hope, has none for this economy.

I do not know many of these people...
Larry,

I am in complete agreement. As always, you articulate the issue clearly, simply and persuasively. Any common sense individual will recognize the sense.

I even agree with this faith...

"Will commonsense Americans really support a massive overdose of government run amok? I seriously doubt it. "

My only concern is that I do not believe that there are a significant number of such people to make a difference. (I live in MA)

I have no plan to read any comments to this article. Anyone reading consider:

Do the comments to this article suggest to you that there are significant numbers of "commonsense Americans" out here?

The Great Imbalance
Only 5% of the stimulus (PORKULUS) spending is for infrastructure. The rest is for a large Democrat Power Grab ---- more Government control of the economy by creating massive non-productive bureaucracy.

In 2008 Vladimir Putin (supposedly a Communist) made the following statement:

“True, the state’s increased role in times of crisis is a natural reaction to market setbacks. Instead of streamlining market mechanisms, some are tempted to expand state economic intervention to the greatest possible extent. The concentration of surplus assets in the hands of the state is a negative aspect of anti-crisis measures in virtually every nation.”

“We are convinced that those who will create attractive conditions for global investment already know and will be able to preserve and strengthen sources of strategically meaningful resources, will become leaders of the restoration of the global economy.”

------ Vladimir Putin’s January 2008 speech in Davos.

Putin criticizing government intervention and discussing creation of “attractive conditions for global investment”, is like Muammar Gaddafi (or Bin Laden) criticizing terrorism.

First, Do No Harm
Perhaps politicians ought to adopt the Hippocratic oath instead of their typical hypocrisy?

Yet politicians harmed the housing, credit, banking, healthcare, agricultural, construction, and let's be straight, just about every other industry it "helps". Just once, I would like to see an ounce of restraint demonstrated in D.C. Taking toxic assets off the books was the primary justification for the last $700 billion boondoggle. It's time to acknowledge that these attempts to manage and plan the economy are miserable failures. None of those assets were, in fact, taken off the books, the money was wasted and the American taxpayer stuck with the bill. There was no oversight, no prudent use of funds, no mandates. Hate to use platitudes, but the last TARP legislation passed demonstrates the truth of the saying: Haste makes waste.

Therefore, why would any reasonable person believe any word coming out of the mouth of any politician in D.C.? They've done nothing but make matters worse since last February and spend us into oblivion. Whatever the solutions are, they absolutely cannot and will not be found in Washington. Further, any so-called solution proposed in Washington ought to be summarily crushed.

Aux armes, citoyens!

Incorrect Assumptions
Looking at and arguing about the stimulus package as a tool to fix our economy is foolhardy. This isn't about fixing anything. The politicians have engineered an economic crisis through which they plan to gain massive control of our economy. This whole thing is a scam.

At this point they have control of the banking industry, global warming is giving them cover to take over control of all energy production, through energy control and bailouts they are taking more control of auto manufacturing and soon they will own health care.

The free market is being thrown under the bus. What will also be crushed is freedom. The problem is that what the politicians are doing does not work. Giving politicians control of anything is stupid.

The Problem Is
Democrats think doing anything is better than doing nothing. They have no concept of 819 Billion dollars.

I wonder if the majority of House democrats even read the stimulus package before they voted. When it doesn't work to improve the economy, maybe they will say they voted for it before they voted against it.

Alecto and TruLib...
Alecto excellent post, i.e. Hippocratic oath!

TruLib also excellent post, i.e. Incorrect Assumptions....I am amazed and delighted that we agree on something.

Just a small example of government waste and inefficiency....in the Ag Industry. For the last 20 or so years farmers have been required to have a pesticide license by the USDA. Every 5 years they have a "class" that farmers must attend to keep their license. My husband has attended 4 times and each time had the same instructor, the same materials were used, the same identical test given and even the same stale sandwich served. It is a big joke and the sad part is, they always give it in the spring at a critical time for farmers to be in the field and the test is not given locally so that 8 hrs in class and the drive to a from means the loss of a whole day, which can mean the difference in loosing a crop if the sand is blowing and the farmers needs to be in the field running a sand fighter.

I could go on about the Boll Weevil Eradication Program and other stuff but don't want to bore anyone to tears!

Any one who votes in favor
of this stimulus package is lacking in the common sense department. Democrats want power and a whole lot of it. Ship them to Cuba!

STOP THIS MADNESS NOW
All of us who are posting here agree that this Stimulus package is a waste of taxpayers money, our money and generations to come who will pay more taxes to repay it, just a spending effort of the Dems with more proposed down the road. Skip one post and take this time to send e-mails to your senators, Democrats and Republicans, to stop this excessive spending NOW.

WE STILL HAVE A VOICE IN OUR COUNTRY, LET IT BE HEARD IN WASHINGTON, SPEAK OUT! VIA LETTERS, E-MAILS AND TELEPHONE CALLS.

Letters
to: Bob in TX

I did write to my Congressman, Mr. Peter Roskam (R), but voted against the stimulus (PORKULUS) last year ($700 Billion) and this year ($800 Billion plus).

I wrote to my Senator's Durkin (D) and Obama (D) (in 2008) and now to Senator Burris (D); but they all are liberal Power Grabbing Big Government Tax & Spend Liberals --- so no hope of them listening to a retired person like me.

Others please follow Bob's plea and write and write. You can go to House.Gov and Senate.Gov and send emails. I have been sending to Senators and Congressmen/Congresswomen who don't repesent my State or District.

Writing to DSM (DownStream sludge & sewage filled) media like NYT,WP,LAT,CBS,NBC,MSNBC is a waste of effort.

correction
I did write to my Congressman, Mr. Peter Roskam (R), who voted against the stimulus (PORKULUS) last year ($700 Billion) and this year ($800 Billion plus).

Stimulus
Unfortunately, many of the people who follow Obama, Pelosi and Reid don't even know what is in this package. I am encouraged that the Republicans have finally gotten a backbone when it comes to spending. This is a pay back package and nothing more. Other than the money to really produce jobs the rest should go through the regular process to be approved. The rush is so that people do not know what is actually in this package.

Shelve the Stimulus
You man McCain is finally showing a little back bone? Why didn't he do this on the first stimulus package, you know, the one that no one can find out where the money went?

I think the first step would be to prosecute those folks that set in motion the sub prime loans. But that would implicate pominent left wing liberals in our government.

We need to make a rule. No money unless it would directly stimulate jobs in the US.

Then we might bust the unions that have forced industry to pay wages so high that it eats profit and competiveness in the world market.

Then get governmental taxes off of business. That would help to make a profit.

Business profits mean more jobs. Go figure. If business can't make a profit, they won't be able to pay their workers. Or, is that too simple for government lovers to comprehend?

On Purpose
some leftists are deliberately trying to bankrupt America. Who knew they would use condoms to do it?

DEFINE THE PROBLEM
One thing seems obvious, both in terms of media commentary and the present state of political action and debate. The economic situation in the USA and the world is a mess that portends to inflict huge damage on a market system that has driven a very successful economy over the past five decades.

All citizens want Obama to succeed on solving this problem, but at this point we have a Humpy Dumpty manifestation of "all the king horses and all the kings men" bent on throwing huge sums at the problem in a expression of "hope against hope." It is though the Democrats believed that throwing money at the Titanic would have stopped it from sinking.

In considering the gravity of the problem, there's a broad feeling that we have lived through very good times the past half-century, and now the very bad times has begun, that it won't be over in the near term. We have had it too good too long. It is a delusion believing the old days will continue and the old ways will prevail. But that is Obama's challenge, and smooth talk will not be the answer. Results will, and he needs a real political consensus in these hard times for the nation to survive – a consensus even including the minority of Republicans.

SOLUTION COMES AFTER DEFINING PROBLEM
The Democrats have proceeded without an accurate definition of the problem. Without that agreed on definition there cannot be a consensus on a solution. And a consensus is an absolute necessity if Obama is to be successful. The present bill is a harbinger that spends huge sums after bad with probable disastrous economic long term consequences.
Obama made a mistake by not forcing the creation of a bill that did not establish a proper problem definition and a consensus solution. Everyone including Republicans concede that dramatic action was needed. But without a concise problem definition and solution political mayhem is the result. This ball is in the Democrat's lap, and the House Bill fails miserably.

The final House bill was big, messy, chaotic piece of legislation. The Congressional Budget Office says only 25% of the money will even go out in the first year. Only 12 cents of every dollar could be called stimulus. What was needed? Not pork, not payoffs, not political base-pleasing, group-greasing dollar outlays.

The political implication for Obama is devastating. In 2008 the public rejected business as usual. That rejection is part of why Obama was elected. Our new president made news this week by going to the House to meet with Republicans. He should have stood back and concluded there must be consensus of defining the problem accurately before establishing a knee jerk solution that, like a grave sin, "misses the mark".





"NO!" to the Obamunist Spending Scam
The only thing getting stimulated by Obama's obscenity of an economic plan is the insatiable appetite of snorting hordes of porkers on Capitol Hill.

History has shown us time after time that massive government pork spending only drags the economy down. The transfer of wealth from the private sector to government is not a jobs creator -- it is a jobs killer. Conversely, tax rate reductions have been proven time after time to stimulate the economy and create jobs. Not only are tax cuts good for the private sector, they also lead to increased tax revenues for the government because a prosperous private sector creates more wealth across the board and more workers that pay taxes.

All of should write and call our congressmen and shout "NO!" to the Obamunist spending scam.

Presidential response to
Lawrence Kudlow.

Larry.......Larry.............LARRY!!!

Shut up dude, I won, remember.

Generational Rape With a Shovel
'Generational Rape With a Trillion-Dollar Shovel'

from DailyBail.com a NON profit no advertising site dedicated to stopping the bailouts. Please come see us. We just launched 15 days ago and already more than 80,000 concerned Americans have stopped by. We offer all the bailout news plus the comedy.

I have aggregated every bailout song, cartoon and comedy video all in one spot. Plus all the bailout news updated all day long.

here's the SNIP:
Also missing from the debate is the concern for our children and the unconscionable debt burden we are leaving them. Keynesians, what value are you adding? Your insane belief in the power of government spending is painful entertainment for the rest of us who can smell the bull the minute you hit town. Where is the grand vision? Where is the vital infrastrucure? Why do these projects merit the borrowing of $1 trillion more from our children's increasingly dim futures? We're still waiting to hear how each project will further our national interest.

So stop wasting our time with your useless theory on how this giveaway will substantially boost the economy. We're not buying it. It didn't work in the 1930s and it's not going to work now. Are you listening, Krugman. The massive spending that accompanied our entrance into WWII brought us out of the depression. Not the keynesian claptrap you so proudly cite.

So call this stimulus what it really is, generational rape with a trillion-dollar shovel, and it's but one more painful wrong turn as we continue on the path to federal bankruptcy."

thanks, steve
dailybail.com

Hollywood Stimulus
online wsj--

"A favorite Beltway talking point these days is that government spending juices growth more than tax breaks, which is why the stimulus legislation coursing through Congress has so much of the former. But it turns out that Democrats believe in tax incentives, too, at least for their political supporters.

National Journal reported this week that the Senate's economic stimulus bill includes a provision that would make Hollywood studios eligible for a special 50% write-off of equipment purchases. According to the report, "the provision is backed by firms like the Walt Disney Co., and the industry trade group the Motion Picture Association of America."

The House version of the stimulus already includes a bonus depreciation that lets businesses immediately write off 50% of their 2009 capital expenditures.

But the Senate bill expands the definition of "qualifying property" -- specifically to include "certain motion picture film or videotape."

Hollywood moguls like Steven Spielberg, David Geffen and George Lucas were among the biggest backers of President Obama's candidacy, and it looks as though Democrats have found a way to return the favor.

So let's see: Democrats object to cutting the U.S. 35% corporate tax rate -- which is higher than in all of Europe, undermines economic growth and discourages job creation -- for all companies on grounds that it favors the rich and powerful. But Democrats will carve out tax loopholes for businesses they like and that write them campaign checks."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123327820048831571.html?mod =WSJ_topics_obama


All politics
I will be the first to admit I am not an economist nor have I seen the entire stimulus package. However, stepping back from the issue, one can see a different angle.

Not a single Republican in the House voted for the stimulus package. They can report to their Republican constituents that they 'held true' and voted 'No'. First, they all knew the package would pass without their vote. No 'maverickness' there.
Second, if the stimulus package is SO abhorrent, why are the majority, and I mean MAJORITY of REPUBLICAN Governors SUPPORTING the passage? Even Ms Palin herself has been in talks with Alaska's representatives on how she can get her share.
Bottom line....all politics. Politicians playing to their constituents and not putting "Country First".

MrRoy
Sub-prime loan swere a factor but the financial meltdown was not caused by sub prime loans. As late as early 2008 sub-prime loans represented only about 10% of all mortgages.

The true cause of the meltdown was what the clever Wall Strret white shirts were allowed to do with mortgage loans. Most of this occurred from 2003 until 2008.

Also, it's ludicrous to blame unions for the financial mess. I can probably name 10 guys on Wall Street who alone have screwed our nation out more money than all unions have in the history of our nation.

Spending....Not Stimulus
This 'package is nothing more than a giant 'slush fund' for B.Hussein to play with. He knows he has a large percentage of the citizens who are blinded by color.

Many of them will not look negatively at ANYTYHING he says or does. He is,to them,their savior. They are blind to what he REALLY has in store for them.

The MSM,who he played like a fiddle will do his bidding until they are forced to tell the truth about who and what he is and what it is he wants to do.

The left have always been infatuated by communism,socialism and all other isms,except capitalism,are soon going to see how it is to LIVE under their rule.

Yeah Stacey, you are correct.
The Republicans are just as phony about this stimulus as the Dems were about Bush's tax cuts. They knew the stimulus was going thru so they pretended to be against it. But as the old line goes "Follow the money."

So let's watch and keep track of how many Republicans reject the money!

Don't Need Wall Street
It's shocking when someone does the right thing when everyone wants them to do something else.

We don't need Wall Street. We can pour trillions back into the economy without them and without the same printing, borrowing, and spending that has caused this problem.

http://ewebsmith.com/finance/betterstimulus.html

And guess who's in Washington....
with her hand out for some of that "stimulus". Sarah Palin, the conservative idol.

Well RickV
Gov. Sarah single handedly fought off and "stopped" the Bridge to Nowhere by still managed to spend the money so......................

RickV404 Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire
Boy, Sarah Palin must scare the bejeebers out of you liberals. She is NOT in Washington, D.C. asking for bailout money. The truth is, Sarah Palin has frozen spending in Alaska and has commended the Alaska State Legislature for trying to live within their means.

Like it or not, get ready for Madame President Palin in 2012, or Madame Vice President at the very least. Bambi is going down in flames and will be gone in 2012. In fact, Obama will be lucky to last 4 years in the Oval Office. Too many Obamabots have seen the light. Allelujah!

The more you try to smear Palin, the more convinced she is exactly who we need to lead us out of the liberal insane wilderness.

House Dems are slobe
Peggy Noonan was right in her WSJ op-ed today. House Democrats are slobs. That Obama would support this awful bill is truly scary. No wonder the market is tanking.

Farmer's Wife -
Shhhhh, don't bring up the boll weevils, cuz some crazy will want to subsidize research programs so they don't go extinct! ;)

Tom; Better Yet
Tom writes, "So let's watch and keep track of how many Republicans reject the money!"

Better yet, let's watch who is on the receiving end. Watch the Democrats who vote in favor of the porkulus package and vote them out in 2010 and 2012. Start taking names!

To Purplegraze et al.
who think Republicans and conservatives supported Bush on spending:

It wasn't us - we were ready to impeach the guy without any help from Democrats. Why the heck do you folks think the base deserted Republicans in 2006 and 2008? Deficit spending, the rebate, the AIG, and other corporate bailouts, TARP, Medicare Part D, illegal amnesty, Iraq, Afghanistan, Rumsfeld, No Child Left Behind, and the list goes on and on and on including the new SCHIP bill covering illegal aliens and now Porkulus. My Congressional Representatives received an earful from me on all of these issues and I know others here are fiscal conservatives.

Bush was NO CONSERVATIVE. We are as angry as ever and the Republicans better tow the line if they ever hope to see any votes again! Any talk from Michael Steele about "a new day" better damn well include some tough talk and truths about what the national debt will do to us in both the short and the long term. I don't give a rat's behind if it scares people - they need to be scared, and scared to death that they're going to be slaves, that's right slaves to foreign debt holders. Kudlow is right about the debt/inflation connection.

Don't you point any fingers in this direction. I'm just liable to bite if off.

Alecto, OK!
Mum is the word!

To Brickhouse
You state: "She is NOT in Washington, D.C. asking for bailout money. The truth is, Sarah Palin has frozen spending in Alaska and has commended the Alaska State Legislature for trying to live within their means."

Ah, not quite true. From AP News:

"The 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee, Alaska Gov. SarahPalin, scheduled meetings in Washington this weekend with Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and other senators to press for her state’s share of the package."

Seeing who votes FOR and who votes AGAINST the stimulus package is really birdbrain. Of COURSE the Republicans voted against it. They knew it would pass WITHOUT their vote. They didn't HAVE to vote for it. So, even though they may have privately supported the package, publicly they can show their constituents they voted No. It was a win-win situation.

Governors however DO have a stake in receiving the money. This is why, (again, from AP news) "Most Republican governors have broken with their fellow party members in Congress and are pushing for passage of President Barack Obama’s economic aid plan that would send billions to states for education, public works and health care."

It is all politics.

Left wing thinking
I went over to some left-wing sites just to see what they are saying about the stimulus to see if there is any real thought. No dice. It seems across the board that NONE of the leftist can make any argument other than “failed policies of the last 8 years” that they heard from the Messiah about 1 million times. I seriously think these people are robots. The other theme and is that trickle down economics doesn’t work. They seem to give this in response to why the democrats and Obama made no changes but republicans should vote for it. Fine but they really never address any issues about the fact that even democrats think it is wasteful and badly designed. They just seem to want it passed as is because they have complete faith that if Obama had anything to do with it only fools would dare challenge it. It is a complete failure to think. It really is depressing to see people not even ponder what their own plan is to stimulate the economy but only rattle off about passing it now because men, women and children are starving! (I kid you not) I think they have no idea or have not investigated how fast or how much of the money will effect the economy. It seems irrelevant. They seem preoccupied with talking about how stupid republicans are instead of pondering the real questions like the ACTUAL stimulus bill. The defectives are now the ones being catered to. Fasten your seatbelts.

Brickhouse
First of all, Stacey is correct about Gov. Sarah having her hand out...again.

The goobers here at Townhall like to rant about "socialism...Marxism" etc but the fact of the matter is that their latest hero Sarah is at the helm of probably THE most socialistic state in the Union.

Alaska is at the head of the class when it comes to grabbing federal dollars. One of the main talking points of scum like Sen. Stevens and worse scumk like Repo. Don Young is how much of our tax dollars they can divert back to Alaska. As did, and does, Gov. Palin.

Second, you seemed to miss my point about keeping track of who is taking the money. I wasn't referring to getting them out of office (which we should) I was talking about the morals of those who would vote against (because they knew it would pass) thge stimulus and bad mouth it and then STILL accept the money. That was my point.

Where were all of you schmoes when
Bush and Paulson were bailing out every freaking bank under the sun? It didn't work then, it won't work now... but I didn't hear many of you complaining then.

More debt won't fix this problem. Let the bad investors and banks fail. Pick up pieces, start again. End of story.

Ron Paul...
a year ago was speaking of massive economic problems, Big Gov overspending, fiat currency and the dangers of the Federal Reserve banking system. He was ridiculed here and elsewhere, and got a mere 5% of the vote.

He knew the problem then and he knows the answer now. Listen to him on lewrockwell.com.

Warning: It is not pleasant but it is the truth.

Spending vs. Tax Cuts
I would say that it is highly significant that at the 2009 annual meeting of the American Economic Association there has been a wholesale rejection of Reagan era economic principles with virtually all of those present endorsing greater government involvement in the economy via the levers of public spending and, that spending should play a greater role than tax cuts in the upcoming stimulus package.

While conservatives will advocate lower taxes due to the concepts' central role in their ideological cosmos, due to the nature of the present crisis public works spending would do more to create jobs and leave behind much needed infrastructure improvement. The American Society of Civil Engineers latest report on the state of the nations infrastucture reveals a trillion dollars of unfunded but required upgrading at this time. Contrast that to the fact that only 20 percent of the Bush Tax Rebate went into consumption and one can only wonder what Republicans expect to acheive in endorsing tax cuts other than claiming an ideological victory.

deanfv
You are entirely correct. Bush and Paulson should have let Bear Stearns go belly up and then every one of the other scummy money changer firms. They produce no product or viable service and yet they were the lions of our society. What did it get us?

If just a tiny portion of the TARP money would have been directed back to only local, neighborhood banks this phony mortgage "crisis" would be over. I have never heard of a local bank that kept it's own home mortgage loans go broke.

Bush allowed selling our debt to become our biggest export while financing his credit card wars. That's one of the main factors but never mentioned.

As for the financial firms, there is no possible way that any company can suddenly wake up one Monday morning and realize: OOPS, we are $100 billion short!

That is so damn ludicrous that it defies description. Yet, how many of the big name, high paid auditing firms have been taken to task for what they should have been doing? ZERO!

There is not a jail large enough to hold all of the white collar and political criminals in this scam. IMHO.

ANGRY AFLAC DUCK CONFRONTS PALIN
Governors Sarah Palin, Charlie Crist, and Jim Douglas are among those urging lawmakers to support the Obama's stimulus bill. Read it at, http://stopthepresses2.blogspot.com/search/label/Aflac%20D uck

SJGulitti from NY

You ask why would Republicans favor tax cuts over federal spending?

The answer is easy and just requires some common sense and a little critical thinking skills.

Its because people know what they need better than what the Federal Government knows what they need.

I know I need to replace the roof on my house more than I need a bridge going over a highway. Especially since the Gasoline tax is supposed to be paying for bridges and highways in the first place.

I know I need to pay for my children's college education more than I need to pay for condom distribution in public schools.

I know I need to pay for healthcare for me and my family more than I need to put down sod at the National Mall in Washington D.C.

So you see, Ronald Reagan understood that the people know what they need better than the buearcrats in Washington D.C. or the "Special Interests Groups" like the Assoc. of Economist or the Assoc. of Civil Engineers know what they need.


To Obama's D
you state: "I know I need to replace the roof on my house more than I need a bridge going over a highway."

Well, common sense tells me, any "tax cut" I would get would go straight into my savings. Perhaps pay down those credit cards. Just like I did with Bush's tax cuts/rebates. In these economic times, now is not the time to replace a roof.
The 'problem' comes when others of like mind do the same. Doesn't really help the economy.

Stacey

Well thank you but I don't know how you could possibly know what I need better than I.

Freedom means I get to pick what I need best and not someone else. If someone else decides what I need instead of me then I lose a little bit of freedom each time they do. A little bit on my roof, a little bit on my kids education, a little bit on my healthcare, and so on and so on. Before you know it, I have very little freedom left for me.

Perhaps that is the kind of country Liberals want to live in. I do not. I like Freedom. I like deciding where and how the fruits of my labor are spent. If someone else is going to decide how my earnings are spent there really isn't much need for me to keep producing. We might as well go back to slavery and just work and let someone else worry about my needs.

Deja Vu
Republicans, 2003: "Many Democrats agree with us - we're in an emergency! This horrific, wasteful, deadly, expensive, goodwill-destroying, terrorism-stimulating, wrong-headed, ill-conceived invasion of Iraq is our only choice! We must do it right now! And if you don't agree, YOU HATE AMERICA!"

Democrats, 2009: "Many Republicans agree with us - we're in an emergency! This historically wasteful, inflation-igniting, ill-conceived, bureaucracy-stuffing, special interest payoff-crammed joke of a stimulus package is our only choice! We must do it right now! And if you don't agree, YOU HATE AMERICA!"

Wow dude, deja vu.

And amazingly, we continue to put our faith in professional politicians and the federal bureaucracy, more so every day. Even after BOTH sides of the aisle failed us by (a) forcing lowered mortgage standards to make things "fair", thanks Dems, and (b) knee-jerked away from the kinds of regulation & enforcement that would have helped to avert this crisis, thanks GOP.

Absolutely incredible.

Democrat Ponzi scheme

Obama and the Democrats want to take the money out of the economy to put money into the economy.

...with Washington getting it's cut off-the-top, of course

How Much is a Trillion?
I am flabbergasted. We just initiated a debt management plan because we could no longer pay just the minimums on our many credit card accounts and still buy groceries...and we have two good incomes. How does the federal government plan to pay us, the federal taxpayer back after borrowing all this money? Our great great great grandchildren will be paying on this debt well into their lifetimes. If going into debt was going to stimulate the economy, we should have been well into a recovery last fall, with the first infusion of money. But that hasn't happened, has it? And if government overspending makes a country prosperous, why aren't all those third world countries prosperous? You know the ones, they have such close control on their people that they stand in line for everything.

Marine
It's true that much of what the Dems plan to do is a sort of Ponzi scheme.

But were you equally in uproar when Bush and Paulson started this entire cycle of lunacy with the $33 Billion giveaway to JP Morgan for Bear Stearns and the hundreds of billions that soon followed?

To Obama D
you state:"Well thank you but I don't know how you could possibly know what I need better than I."

Never said I did. You got angry with my assessment that now is not the time to buy a roof and didn't finish my thought.

YOU may buy a roof. THAT is what they hope for. Good for the economy.
HOWEVER, many of us (and unfortunately for you and those buying new roofs), more of us than you will be paying down debt and/or putting the money into savings. Not good for the economy.
Bush tax cuts/rebates didn't save us for that very reason. Mine went indirectly into my retirement fund, as would any other chunk of change I would happen to receive through tax cuts.
There is a time to spend and a time to save. Greed from both the GOP and Dems plus all those Wall Street wiz kids and moral-less CEO's of industry have placed average folks (like me)into a mess we did not create.
I am no fan of big government. However, I am no fool either. Tax cuts will not be our savior in this financial mess.
Oh, and by the way, we are not as "free" as you like to believe. Democracy, not religion, is the opiate for the masses. We only believe what we are led to believe.

Stimulus?? MY A$$
Tom-Yes I was and still am. But try this NEW one on!!.
A Congress Woman arguing for passage of bill that automatically? put EVERY person drawing Unemployment on MEDICAID!!! I have A highly qualified Family Member who will NEVER work again if that becomes Law.. Are we deliberately trying to DESTROY our Country.. METHINKS SO!!

Tom: Sarah Palin Is Not In Favor Of Bill
Govornor Palin is not in favor of the bill, but if the bill passes (and it probably will), the Governors want their states to get some of those funds instead of ACORN and Sex-ed, condom and STD programs, etc.

If the government is going to spend, regardless of whether we want it or not, at least the states would benefit.

Their attitude is: If you're going to throw it away, throw it in my direction. That's entirely different that saying they actually support the bill itself.

ColoradoMac
Spot ON! The democrats and republicans sat on the same committees and still allowed Freddie and Fannie to create the horrible loans Wall Street was left to repackage.

Where has been the investigation of the Boards of Directors who should have been looking out for the interests of the stockholders? Or are they big political donors also?

Why while complaining that some institutions were to big to fail did our government allow Citi and BofA get bigger? Not enough intermediate sized banks to fill avoid created by making Citi or BofA smaller?


Brickhouse & Roy
Brick: First you said that Palin wasn't even in Washington asking for her share.

Roy: I don't doubt that some goofy Rep. would try to get that type of stuff in the stimulus package.

But I am more concerned about that $330,000,000.00 that we have been burning in Iraq, EVERY DAY, for the past 5 years more than I am about any American getting health care freebees.


Half to Unions
Half of the "stimulus" will go to unions, according to Ben Stein.

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/ben_stein_stimulus/2009/ 02/01/177324.html

To Brickhouse
you state: "Their attitude is: If you're going to throw it away, throw it in my direction. That's entirely different that saying they actually support the bill itself."

That is pure bull. I did not support Bush's tax cut/rebate. I had no say so in whether or not I received it. I put it in savings.

Governor's have a choice. They could choose not not receive the money. Why is it that the majority of Republican Governor's SUPPORT it? They want the money.

Bill in New York
Please list any facts or figures that I listed that were incorrect? Be specific and quote EXACTLY what I posted.

You are quite eloquent when you ululate. Tell us, do you sometimes get confused after taking a crap and wipe the wrong end? Don't let it bother you...it's common among pinguid individuals.

Leave it to a Rush-wanna-bee to confuse or twist the facts. Have a child explain my post to you. They will easily see that I never mentioned "GDP" at any time in my post.

They will also tell you that what I did say was that the Iraq war has been costing us over $330,000,000.00 PER DAY for the past five years. (do all those zeroes confound you?)

You seem dumber than the average New Yorker so if you still can't comprehend what the child explains to you about what I actually said, please advise and I will dumb it down a bit further for you. But be advised...there are limits to how far down!

With bright bulbs like you championing the GOP the Republicans cause they can expect to be the minority party for decades.

But good luck to both you and the unfortunate child trying to assist you.

The biggest mystery of the scam.
Stop and think what the Wall Street white shirts are telling us: They woke up one Monday morning and they were suddenly $10 to 50 billion (or in the case of AIG and Citicorp more than $100 BILLION) short. That is absurd.

Let's supose that you were the worst businessman on the planet and you lost $50,000,000.00 every single day that you went to work...every week and every month of the year. To equal what AIG alone claimed they had suddenly realized they were short, it would take over seven years to lose $100 Billion dollars!

So who in the hell was doing the auditing of these Wall Street white shirt criminals for the past 2-5 years?

When the Enron criminals were discovered, it caused auditing firm Arther Andersen to go down with Enron. So why are none of the firms who audited all of the suddenly broke financial firms not being taken to task...and then to jail?

I barely made it out of high school but I bet that I might notice a decimal point that was off about 7 or 8 places all over the books!

We are getting into dangerous territory
I read somewhere that deficits in the range of 4% are OK. I don't know what the limit is, but I'm sure there is one, and it seems to me that if the growth in the economy dwarfs the deficit, as it does in most years, we're OK. I guess that among other things, a reasonable deficit can be tolerated for a year or two -- like, now.

But the 2009 deficit may be 10% or more of GDP. I would think that, basically, it's just too much, too fast.

I've also read that as long as the total government debt is well below 100% of GDP, that's OK, too, for much the same reason. But Obama is moving us quickly to where government debt is over 100% of GDP, and that scares the s**t out of me. For example, we have a national debt in the $10 trillion range, but the GDP is in the $14 trillion range. And as much as I hate it, a $20 trillion national debt might be OK if the GDP is, say, $30 trillion. But I don't know if we'll be able to absorb a national debt that is skyrocketing by $1 trillion a year or more, with the GDP stagnant or contracting.

Saudi Pay off
The stimulus package has gaurnteed that the Saudis will keep buy some of our debt. Note the lack of anything that suggests of producing energy.

We need a Roosevelt building plan. We need energy independance. We need self determination. What lovely campaign rhetoric. Where is the money to actually produce enough energy to get us off 1/8th the foriegn oil? Hundreds of billions and we can not produce one major power plant to lower our imports. JOKES ON US.

Our government will talk about the transmission end of the energy equation.

Wonder if it was the Saudis who made up this global warming thing. Who bennefits if we rely on sources which will never produce more than 10% of our energy needs? But Americans can be made to feel good about saving the planet.
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