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Thursday, June 04, 2009
Larry Elder :: Townhall.com Columnist
Who Drove the Chevy Off the Levy?
by Larry Elder
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How on earth did this happen?

General Motors, the 100-year-old car company that once employed more than 500,000 workers and had a 50 percent market share, just crumbled into bankruptcy. The government now runs it.

In the mid-'70s, I attended law school in Michigan. Even back then, foreign automakers -- especially the Japanese -- steadily shaved off market share from the once-mighty Big Three: GM, Chrysler and Ford.

*** Special Offer ***

This foreign encroachment into the auto industry scared the socks off executives of domestic appliance-makers. Manufacturers of dishwashers, refrigerators and stoves scrambled into all-hands-on-deck mode. They vowed to make better stuff, with continually improved features and zero tolerance for defects. Westinghouse -- a major manufacturer in serious trouble during the early '70s -- set up a "productivity and quality center" to study Japanese manufacturing methods. A 1983 Business Week article quoted one Westinghouse top exec: "We have sent more study teams to Japan than any other American company. We are doing to the Japanese what they have done to us for 20 or 30 years." Today domestic manufacturers of large appliances still dominate the American market.

But while the appliance-makers manufactured better products, the automotive Big Three manufactured excuses: "The Japanese pay their workers less"; "the Japanese benefit from their weak yen"; "OK, the Japanese excel at making tiny cars, but they can't compete with us on larger models and trucks"; etc.

The Big Three then turned to Washington. Their lobbying paid off through protectionist policies: "voluntary" import quotas (forcing American consumers to pay more for Japanese cars); domestic content rules (requiring foreign automakers to use a certain amount of American-produced equipment in their cars); and demands that foreigners "open" their markets to American car products or stand accused of "unfair trade."

All of this shielded the Big Three from the rule of business that determines success or failure: Improve or die.

My uncle Thurman worked at a Cleveland GM plant for 30 years before retiring. He operated machines that, from time to time, broke down. Mechanically skilled, though he lacked formal training, Thurman repaired cars in his garage after work and on weekends for friends, neighbors and referrals. But when his plant machine broke down, union rules required him to sit on his hands -- sometimes for hours -- while he waited for a young, often 20-something "tech" in a white shirt and tie to fix the machine. "Never," Uncle Thurman once told me, "did the kid ask me anything -- even though I could put together and take apart the machine in my sleep."

Chrysler, 30 years ago, teetered on the brink of bankruptcy. If it had been allowed to collapse, the remaining Big Two would likely have purchased much of Chrysler's plants and equipment and hired at least some of its workers. Instead, Congress provided financial aid to "rescue" the company. By not letting Chrysler fail, two major things occurred. First, a feeble company remained alive, only to limp from financial crisis to financial crisis for the next several decades. Second, it sent a message not only to Detroit but also to the rest of America: Expect a taxpayer bailout if the government deems a business "too big to fail."

Under pressure from American lawmakers, the Japanese built plants on American soil, where they used American workers to produce high-quality cars at a lower cost. If it wasn't clear and unmistakable before, it should have become clear and unmistakable then. Big Three, look into the mirror.

After World War II, manufacturers in Japan sought out the advice of W. Edwards Deming, an American quality-control expert. American businesses ignored Deming's theories on continual improvement, but Japanese companies lingered on his every word.

The Los Angeles Times named Deming one of the 50 people who most influenced business during the 20th century. "Scholars note that Japan was also receptive to Deming at a time when America was not," wrote the Times, "in part because Deming's ideas dovetailed with many of Japan's own traditions. Japan had long held hard work and quality craftsmanship as important virtues, and its technology even during the war surprised many Americans. Deming preached that companies must treat workers as associates, not hired hands, and he blamed management if workers were not motivated to work well." Today outstanding Japanese companies receive the Deming Application Prize for excellence in total quality management.

Back in Michigan in the '70s, I read article after article about how the Big Three should/could/would respond to the foreign invasion. But in practice, I saw excuses and pleas for protectionism.

"Why doesn't General Motors," I recall asking my roommate, "offer a boatload of money, steal Toyota's No. 2 executive and put him in charge?" My roommate laughed, "Because he doesn't speak English and wouldn't be able to understand the American market." I said, "And General Motors does?"

Today I know that my idea of stealing a Toyota exec was bad. GM should have picked up the phone, asked the government to buy a majority share in the company, handed the office keys to the President of the United States, and said, "Here. You run it."

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About The Author
Larry Elder is a syndicated radio talk show host and best-selling author. His latest book, "What's Race Got to Do with It?" is available now.
 
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like it or not, here is what happened
The amount of salaries paid to Japanese auto workthe ers in the U.S. and Japan is pretty close to the level of U.S. auto workers. While the Euro was high, German and French auto workers earned way more than American ones -- yet the companies were not (and did not) go under. American auto companies were doomed by the fact that American companies traditionally pay for health care (unlike Germany which has had forms of universal coverage for over 100 years). At the same time companies pay for health care, over the past 30 years health care has risen much higher than the rate of inflation. Neither the unions nor the auto companies were to blame for that. Conservatives say they think employers, not the government, should pay for health care -- yet this is what destroyed GM and Chrysler. The legacy costs of health care do not exist for Japanese or German auto workers -- with the rise of health care costs at a rapid rate -- there was no way they could complete. GM and Chrysler actually brought starting wages below Toyota and Honda of America and got rid of pensions for new workers -- yet the old contracts killed them. Had the government provided the Unions/Companies with a credit of health care costs beyond what inflation would cost -- perhaps they would have survived.

Deming
Deming's most famous quote is "Change is not necessary. Survival is not mandatory."

Lots of people in Detroit (and elsewhere) need to think long and hard about that.

I'd suggest the labor movement needs it as much as anyone.

Sad but true
Just checked the stats on passenger car sales for the month of May.

top ten models sold a paltry 199,000 units.

of those, 144,000 were japanese brands.

38,000 were Fords, 16,000 were Chevies.

Top sellers of all types remain the old reliables Ford F series edging out the Chevy Silverados.

Experience
The problem remains: the big Three make a product that few consumers want to buy.

I currently have a 1999 Honda with 125,000 miles on it. It has never given me a lick of trouble.

I do not believe that I could buy an American-made car that would give me that same service.

No government bail-out solves that basic, fundamental problem.

Government Regulations too
Government fuel-economy regulations are also in play. Do anyone remember when the feds passed new regulations to tighten fuel economy regulations to 35 MPG, the automakers called it an unfunded mandate and demanded they the feds pay for an industry-killing mandate?

When an automaker's big revenue maker is the one that the feds are demanding be killed in order to appease the green lobby, that shows the problem of the industry. Look at the Japanese automakers cheer the President for truck and SUV-killing policies. And the top selling vehicles in the US, once again, were the GM Trucks (Silverado, Sierra, Tahoe, Yukon, Suburban, Escalade) that outsell the Ford Trucks (F-Series, Expedition)

Has anyone noticed since the 1980's, Tokyo actually took Detroit's executives? GM lost James C. Perkins to Toyota in the mid-1980's, before being lured back in 1989 until his retirement in 1996, after which he went to megadealer Rick Hendrick. GM's quality and innovation (LT1, LS1, C5, truck push) started in the 1990's with the return of the true car guy and not bean counter. (His son Pat is a top executive at Hendrick.) Chrysler after its Cerberus acquisition hired longtime Toyota Motor Sales USA executive Jim Press away.

levee
Larry,

I believe the word should be levee, not levy.

Willard

FeargalIX
Health care is the culprit in that the unions, to which Obama is beholden, demanded too much and for too many.

Benefits before bankruptcy showed that GM was paying eight workers for every one on the assembly line, plus benefits.

Too much for too many, and the goose laying the golden eggs dies an ignoble death, sacrificed to the greed of the unions and incompetence of management. A deadly combination.

FeargalX
"[O]ver the past 30 years health care has risen much higher than the rate of inflation. Neither the unions nor the auto companies were to blame for that."

No, blame for that falls squarely on government.

You get more of whatever you subsidize. If you subsidize expensive healthcare and education, it explodes. It's no marvel that the cost of both has risen faster than inflation for decades -- even during the '70s, when inflation zipped along in double digits.

As far back as the Nixon administration, politicians knew what was inflating healthcare costs and knew that their growth was unsustainable. But they couldn't reduce subsidies without losing popularity and risking electoral defeat. So they encouraged the creation of HMOs to do the dirty work of cost-cutting for them. Thus they could continue buying votes while lambasting the private-sector villains that they had sired. (Ted Kennedy, who later made a second career of beating up on HMOs, was one of their leading proponents.)

And so it goes.

FeargalX
You're partially correct, the French and German auto workers do only make a little less in gross pay than American workers. However, in exchange for that "free" health care, they lose right at 50% of their pay in federal taxes, 19% sales tax on every purchase, and $8-9 per gallon of gas (due to even more taxes). In Europe, a $100,000 job translates to less than $30,000 in buying power.

Are you recommending the same for US workers?

Another example
I can relate a story similar to what Mr. Elder attributes to his uncle.
My father worked for one of the Big Three for nearly 30 years as Machine Repairman. His job was similar to the 'tech' who Mr. Elder's uncle had to wait for, but my father was union, too. He related to me that there were several tasks that might be required to repair a machine which he was not allowed to perform, even though he had the technical skill to do so. He had to call in a member from a different trade, a Millwright or a Pipe Fitter, to perform those tasks. This meant waiting, perhaps hours, for one of those tradesmen to show up. Meanwhile the machine remained offline and my father had to sit around because he could not be assigned to another task.
These kinds of stories cemented my distrust of labor unions. In today's society their primary goal is job preservation and getting more for doing less. Increasing productivity, making a company more competitive, is not one of their goals. While this is not the sole factor in what has happened to American auto makers, it is certainly a strong contributing factor. Unions of all kinds must rethink their attitudes in the 21st century.

Spot on
While I usually disagree with most columnists here, this article is dead on. Numerous books have been written about the disfuntionality of GM's management. "Rude Awakening" by Maryann Keller is excellant. Many are quick to blame the unions, but it is GM's entrenched beaurocratic management's and executive entitlement that got them where they are now.

I always said that when the Japanese get into the full size pickup truck market, that would spell the end for Detroit. Toyota did just that and proved me right.

Two words - Pontiac Aztek Need I say more?

Lefty Proponents Of Socialized Hlthcare
are always bellaching about the rise in cost. But they never consider the costs of lawsuits and the "free" care given to illegal aliens.

You never see them going to Canada for health care. Why?




Chevrolet Is Poison
Who in their right mind would buy a Chevrolet? Obama is going to force us to buy Chevrolets--all gov't vehicles will be Chevrolets, with the unions setting the prices. Taxpayers will foot the bill, as usual.

The liberal mantra - its not your fault
If you spill McDonalds coffee on yourself, its not your fault and McDonalds should pay you $700,000.

If you have 3 illegitimate children, from 3 different fathers, its not your fault and the government will pay for your house and food, and maybe even a new TV and blue ray DVD player.

If you cannot provide a reasonably good education to public school kids, its not your fault because the government did not spend enough money on education.

If you cannot build cars that are competitive in the marketplace, its not your fault and the government will buy your company and pay your severance.

I swear, it it weren't for liberals, who knows how we would ever survive.

Insurance
The auto companies should have made the union workers pay for their own insurance.Our union was self insured.When you see the money coming out of your paycheck you watch your doctor visits.

I have a similar story ...
to Mr. Elder's uncle. I was sent to GM's Truck and Bus plant in Moraine , Ohio. I worked on their automated access control system. A one minute job turned into a nearly 2 hour adventure because I had to wait for a union electrician to show up just to WATCH me replace a memory board. Of course this also delayed me in getting home because I hit rush hour traffic travelling back through Cincinnati.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

How on earth did this happen?

Larry Elder asks?

The answer is when you punish investment you should not be suprised when companies reduce or stop investing.

For years Liberals in Congress have been punishing investment.

We now see the result.

LouLouise, about that ...
Chevrolet being forced on us. I'll bet we even have the same number of color choices that Ford offered on his Model T. Three to be exact. You could get it in black, black, or black.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

Admin's Response ...
The Obama administration has carefully read Mr.
Elder's comments and taken them to heart. After an emergency meeting this morning with Labor leaders, they have issued a joint press release promising to focus their attention to reform "appliance-makers" as soon as possible!

We still have one!
Thank Ford we still have one American auto maker that hasn't gone begging to the govt. or filed bankruptcy (yet).

Thank Ford his fordship hasn't bought out the last of the big three (yet)

It certainly is a brave new world, isn't it?

Flash forward 5 years and imagine
what the fleet of cars will look like coming from GM. Scary, I know. But they will be incentive laden so people will buy them.

And by the way, I work for a Japanese run company that does not apply any Deming principals. In fact, they make knee-jerk decisions, treat many with disrespect and don't know a lot about the business. I am not complaining I am just telling you not all Japanese companies are well run.

FearGalX...
I fear you misrepresent conservatives. That or you live in a very narrow paradigm.

Speaking as a conservative, I'll admit that I do not want to be taxed to pay for universal, government-run, healthcare. But that doesn't mean I favor employer run healthcare either. Government intervention and the obtuse tax code is the main reason employers provide healthcare at all. If employers pay for healthcare, they get a tax break that employees as individual taxpayers don't get. In theory, they can pay the employers less in wages, pay for healthcare, and save money while providing greater ent benenfit for employees. It sounds like a win-win. But then human nature rears its head with unintended consequences. Since employees have few choices about their options, and since they get as much healthcare as they need without paying directly for it, they are bound to be less frugal with healthcare than if it was coming directly out of their own wallet. So in the end, they abuse the employer offered healthcare, driving up prices for the employer to the point that either restrictions on healthcare are imposed or it is eliminated as a benefit altogether. The ultimate compensation that companies provide to employees is still subject to supply and demand.

Imagine if we each as individuals went out and shopped for our own healthcare. If we didn't have to sacrifice wages for the employer to provide it or pay taxes for the government to provide it, we would have enough to pay for healthcare. We might also think twice about using more expensive options for healthcare for minor problems. In this environment, healthcare providers would be driven to compete for customers and there might even be a reduction in non-value-added bureaucracy to raise costs. Of course, there is still the issue of tort law. But that ain't going away with government healthcare, either.

What has bankruptcy done to costs?
Does anyone know what the revised union contracts do? What is the cost for union pay and benefits? What happened to some of the outrageous sums paid top management?

LA Times today claimed GM's ad budget might be cut in half and with local dealers closing the pain suffered by newspapers might be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Seems like the most open administration in history is slow in telling us what the costs will be at our new subsidiary.

frog....
how insensitive, environmentally disastrous, and possibly racist can you be????

All cars going forward shall be any color you want as long as it is WHITE! Just like our roofs and roads. No more blacktops. The environmentalists have spoken! ;)

Guvment Motors and union plagues

An urban myth: GM does not make cars people want to buy. Fact--> GM and Toyota sold the SAME # of cars last year. The difference? Strangling UAW labor costs at GM and Chrysler-- UAW workers make $150k/year all-in... for a H.S. degree... they make half as much at Toyota here in America, yet line up for those jobs. The UAW has killed the Golden Goose, and is NOW simply bleeding taxpayers.

The unions OWN the ObaMessiah! It is STUNNING to dismiss secured creditors in favor of unsecured claimants--> like the UAW. The Chosen One is effectively subverting B/R law. Unions have killed the big 3, and they (teachers, public service workers, hospital service) have bankrupted Mexifornia-- which the REST OF US will also have to bail out.

When you torpedo the rightful claims of bond holders, then future investors will be dissuaded from buying corporate bonds of any remotely troubled company-- which might serve to ASSURE further trouble! One reason that Ford is not yet on the brink is that it took on new debt (such as bonds) awhile back.

Federal workers make TWICE what private workers earn; state and local make 40% more-- both unionized.

Unions are ruining our efficiency and bleeding us dry-- killing the Golden Geese.

http://www.bankaholic.com/finance/lou-dobbs-federal-employe es-earn-twice-as-much-as-private-workers/
http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2009-04-09-compensa tion_N.htm

Will 7:32
Couldn't leave well enough alone, eh. Levee is what was destroyed by the George Bush in New Orleans (as you libs believe).

Levy is what you charge, like taxes (fees to you libs).

Couldn't find anything substantive to criticize so you stepped in it.

a viable option for health care
re:
"Imagine if we each as individuals went out and shopped for our own health care. If we didn't have to sacrifice wages for the employer to provide it or pay taxes for the government to provide it, we would have enough to pay for health care. We might also think twice about using more expensive options for health care for minor problems."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

There have been local area experiments where individuals contracted directly with physicians rather than using third part payers (guvment or insurance)... costs went way down and satisfaction went way up all-around (doctors and patients) as immense paperwork and bureaucracy was eliminated.

Doctors hire multiple people JUST to handle the 3rd party paperwork.

But the guvment WANTS to be in the loop because that is where the 'Crats get their power.

From Michigan
I am from Michigan, though not the Southeast.
I have friends and family that worked in the auto indutry going back to the 50's.

ANybody who is trying to blame this on their pet whipping boy is only telling you half the story, because the blame goes to everyone involved.

It is true that union demands, particularly health care benefits, are a cost problem for auto industries. American companies face that problem while Japanese, Korean or German companies do not because those nations wisely realized that universal health care is a competitive advantage.

Unions did and still do protect inefficient workers and work practices. They failed in their obligation to control their own people. At the same time, the root cause of of GM;'s failure is the fact that it does not build cars people want. Design is a management function. Quality control is a managemenet function. Marketing is a management function.

I knew GM was doomed when it started making the Hummer and spun off Saturn as a separate company.

FearGalX Put the crack pipe down
And Step away....

Why do employers provide a health benefit in the first place? Because the Govt. restricted wages during and after WWII. In order to attract decent workers, they had to do something.. This caused the first problem, people got health care with out understanding the actual cost. Then the Govt. stepped in again with Medicare and Medicaid which skewed the market. These two things along with shyster lawyers have driven up the cost of health care. The Federal Govt. already controls 50% of the health care market... The 50% that is broken.. Now knuckleheads like you want them to have it all.

Please, show me a heavily unionized industry in the US that is still profitable and Viable.. You can't. Also I guess the GM Job Bank also didn't have anything to do with their non-profitability. Paying people that don't work to sit around and smoke cigarettes. The GM and Chrysler management are to blame... For not standing up to the Unions years ago and shutting them down..

avoiding inconvenient truths
re:
the root cause of of GM;'s failure is the fact that it does not build cars people want.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is wrong prima facie-- GM sold as many cars as Toyota last year... yet Toyota thrived as GM headed down the tubes. The KEY difference was cost structure-- you simply CANNOT pay TWICE as much for labor! UAW basic wages were much higher, work rules hurt efficiency and competitiveness, and benefits were grandiose.

This part of your post was on the right track:
"Unions did and still do protect inefficient workers and work practices. They failed in their obligation to control their own people."

As the ancient Greeks urged, "nothing in excess." The UAW kept squeezing the turnip until there was only the taxpayer left to squeeze-- and they are trying to do that as well via the ObaMessiah and the 'Crats.

Unions kill
I worked in a foundry that was a union shop while I was in college. If I were ever to start work a minute early or work a minute into my lunch break to finish the piece I was working on, the union steward would was 2-3 minutes of his time by coming over and yelling at me for setting such a fine example for his employees. Behind the union steward's bench was the work area of a man that leaned against his work bench most of the day. The only thing he was good for alerting any one who cared that the boss was getting near. I'd always heard about the evils of unions but I became a believer when I saw them in action.

Unions have ruined this country
Unions have turned workers into crying babies, with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement. I have yet to see a company or industry that hasn't suffered due to the selfishness and corruptness of the union. The airlines are always in trouble, pilots demanding ever higher pay, maintenance workers as well, demanding more and more pay, auto workers too. Regan was my hero when he fired the air traffic controllers after they went on strike, although they were almost all hired back very quietly. What ever happened to an honest days work and a honest days pay?

American Cars
used to be known for their style. Today, they all look the same and they all look cheap. The Chevy logo is nothing but plastic and looks to be as cheaply made as the car itself. Quality has taken a huge hit over increased salaries.

Just like all Big Government ideas...
The Big Three ruled the auto manufacturing world in the 50s and 60s...it's only since the intervention and requirements of government, unions, and so many, many agency rules that we lost our ability to keep pace. GM and Chrysler committed suicide long ago; we're just now having to deal with the remains.

Bobby
"Government fuel-economy regulations are also in play. Do anyone remember when the feds passed new regulations to tighten fuel economy regulations to 35 MPG, the automakers called it an unfunded mandate and demanded they the feds pay for an industry-killing mandate?"

CAFE applies to cars and trucks sold in the US, so those at Toyota dealerships and Kia dealerships have to be in compliance with CAFE too. Don't blame GM's demise on CAFE. Even if I think the CAFE standard should be 0 MPH. If you want to build a car that gets 10 gallons to the mile and you can find a customer to buy it...more power to you.

"Look at the Japanese automakers cheer the President for truck and SUV-killing policies."

So-called Japanese companies build trucks and SUVS too. Very good trucks. How I wish I had bought a Tundra or Titan instead of a Ram (built in Mexico I might add).




Except for the fact
"Thank Ford we still have one American auto maker that hasn't gone begging to the govt. or filed bankruptcy (yet)."

Ford isn't American, it is a multinational just like Toyota is. Calling these multinational giants American or Japanese is pretty mindless. They have no loyality to any country only to profit and these labels just play into the economic stupidity of "buy American" campaigns.

Joel
More cut and paste BS from you I see.

"The "Green" philosophy has as its goal the elimination of humanity off of the earth, except for a small group that will have Stone Age tools, and those who rule over them with all modern luxuries. This is proven by their resistance to nuclear power. If their concern was truly "greenhouse gases" then they would be pro nuke, as nuclear power emits ZERO "greenhouse gases."

100% false and one of the main reason people oppose nuclear power is the waste issue which the only response the US has it to bury it at Yucca Mountain and turn Nevada into a waste dump for the other states. Nevada a state with no nuclear power plants I might add. If the other states want nuclear power, great, but they should bury it in their own states, not out in Nye County.


"These are the ones that Orwell so aptly described in Animal Farm: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

I don't think you'd like Orwell so much. A Democratic Socialist who admired Leon Trotsky (and represented by Snow Ball in the book). Animal Farm is an allegorical tale of Stalin's betrayal of the revolution.

Marketing
The big three never adapted to the shift in consumer demand from durability to initial dependability.
They never expected the unmarried female driver to be a big part of the market. They lost her from the beginning and never won her back. The problem was healthcare, retirement and terrible marketing targeting women.

David, reader, et al
AS I said, anybody who lays the blame on thier own particular whipping boy is only telling half the story.

Both labor AND management are responsible for the demise of GM.

The key, John...
Is that labor and management should suffer the consequences. Neither of them should be bailed out by taxpayers. And other car manufacturers who are succeeding by making better decisions or whatever should not be held at a disadvantage or punished for making better decisions and remaining competitive.

Universal Health Care Crock
The nation univeralizing their health care is NOT (all caps and all) the solution. It does NOT make them more competitive. People like John and FeargalX don't have the first clue about the subject. When we say that Toyota pays half as much for auto workers as GM does, this is right here in the USA. Japan's and Germany's universal health systems don't cover American workers. If medical care really was the cost raising issue, then Toyota, Honda, Nissan and BMW would all be in the same boat at GM and Chrysler. However, they clearly aren't.

Every single car that Honda and Toyota sells in America is made in America. It is cheaper to make them here than it is to make them in Japan and put them on ships that take three weeks to get here.

If anything, Universal Health will just make US companies less competitive as government will raise taxes on those "evil corporations" to pay for it.

and...
by raising taxes on individuals or forcing companies to raise their prices to pay their increased taxes, we will be able to buy less and less. Sounds like a wet dream for Obama and a nightmare for the rest of us.

Akagi GA -- Nuclear
"one of the main reason people oppose nuclear power is the waste issue which the only response the US has it to bury it at Yucca Mountain and turn Nevada into a waste dump for the other states. Nevada a state with no nuclear power plants I might add. If the other states want nuclear power, great, but they should bury it in their own states, not out in Nye County."

I would disagree with that inasmuch as if the citizens of Nye County want to sell waste disposal resources to nuclear plants in other states, they should be free to do so.

After all, that was one of the big reasons why Nevada allowed gambling. They literally had very little else to offer. If they want to add nuclear waste disposal to their list of profit centers, that's their business.

They certainly have room for it.

Feargal
"Had the government provided the Unions/Companies with a credit of health care costs beyond what inflation would cost -- perhaps they would have survived."

And if my aunt had b__ls she would be.......

That's right! With gov healthcare my grass would be greener, my wife prettier and my kids will get better grades and I'd never slice again.

They'd ban the DH, play football all year long..........

Uncle Alby
The vast majority of the residents of Nevada have opposed the Federal government forcing the nuclear waste down their throats for decades now. Again, if the other states want nuclear power fine, but they should bury their own waste in their own backyards. Nevada wants no part of it.


Health care cost?
FeargalX

Health care costs doomed GM & Chrysler? Frog Frocky! You have been drinking too much koolaid!

Akagi - -
I can certainly sympathize with the citizens of NV not wanting the Feds to *force* the issue.

What would you say to a private company buying up a few thousand acres of empty land that's miles away from anybody and selling waste disposal services?

Nevada is a big state, with only 32 people per square mile (compared to 141 for Georgia, 137 for New Hampshire, etc.) Surely there must be someplace suitable. Of course, New Mexico has only 15, even better.

I think the big issue is the Feds trying to use force. I'll bet if the various nuclear power agencies were going to *BUY* the services, for the right price, a lot more citizens would be amenable to the idea.

On the other hand, nuclear power tends to bring out all the NIMBY's. (Not In My Back Yard) Everyone wants to enjoy the benefits, so long as somebody else is the neighbor. This is going to be true no matter what anybody does.
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