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Thursday, March 12, 2009
Larry Elder :: Townhall.com Columnist
Democrats Wanted Bush To Fail
by Larry Elder
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Three and a half years into the Iraq war, Fox News' Bill O'Reilly appeared on David Letterman's show. He asked Letterman, "Do you want the United States to win in Iraq?" Letterman gave a long-winded answer about the evolution of his thinking on the war.

"Do you want the United States to win in Iraq?" repeated O'Reilly. Letterman paused.

O'Reilly said, "It's an easy question."

"It's not easy for me," said Letterman, "because I'm thoughtful."

The New York Times recently printed a piece about David Axelrod, the Chicago newspaperman turned political consultant turned senior adviser to President Barack Obama. According to the Times, "The recent back-and-forth with Rush Limbaugh … was explicitly authorized by Mr. Axelrod, who told aides that it was not a moment to sit quietly after Mr. Limbaugh said he hoped that Mr. Obama would 'fail.'" Newsweek's Jonathan Alter wrote, "Republicans hope to break the new president's momentum -- make him 'fail,' as de facto GOP chairman Rush Limbaugh urged."

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette columnist Reg Henry wrote: "When Rush Limbaugh said he wanted Barack Obama to fail, the clanging of the stupidity meter roused me to action. Usually, I have the stupidity meter set to mute when it comes to the Vesuvius of Vacuity because everything he says is bound to set off the alarm and the dog can't sleep with all the stupid racket. … After all, it is the polar opposite of what some of us believed about the last president as he instituted one fool policy after another to please the right-wing crank community. Those were years when I had to buy extra batteries for the stupidity meter and the dog took to sleeping with his paws over his ears."

Rep. Phil Gingrey, R-Ga., said: "It's easy if you're Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh or even sometimes Newt Gingrich to stand back and throw bricks. You don't have to try to do what's best for your people and your party. … You're just on these talk shows and you're living well, and plus you stir up a bit of controversy."

One columnist considers rooting for failure an act of disloyalty. The Miami Herald's Leonard Pitts wrote: "Do you ever say that about your president if you are an American who loves your country? Would you say it about George W. Bush, who was disastrous? … You may think he's going to fail, yes. You may warn he's going to fail, yes. But do you ever hope he fails? Knowing his failure is the country's failure? Isn't that, well … disloyal?"

But what of Democrats who rooted against the success of George W. Bush?

"Would you say you want President Bush to succeed or not?" asked an August 2006 Fox News/Opinion Dynamics poll. The result? Ninety percent of Republicans wanted Bush to succeed, versus 7 percent who did not. Among independents, 63 percent wanted the President to succeed, compared with 34 percent who did not. What about Democrats? Forty percent wanted him to succeed, but 51 percent did not.

Did anybody care? One guy -- Rush Limbaugh -- publicly wishes for Obama's liberalism to fail, and it's call out the dogs. But when the majority of Democrats rooted for Bush's failure, where was the outrage?

A Dow Jones Factiva search of all publications, Web news and multimedia reveals the mainstream media completely ignored the 2006 poll -- save for one Associated Press story (picked up by about five papers), which mentioned a different question from that survey.

As for Limbaugh, he clearly stated that he wants "liberalism" to fail. He believes that an intrusive government -- which, among other things, props up failing businesses -- results in less prosperity. Imagine.

"Do you want (Obama) to succeed?" conservative host Sean Hannity asked Limbaugh.

"I would hope he would succeed," said Limbaugh, "if he acts like Reagan. But if he is going to do FDR … why would I want him to succeed? … If he is going to implement a far-left agenda … $2 trillion in stimulus, the growth of government … nationalized health care, I mean, it's over. … That's the end of America as we have known it because that's then going to set the stage for everything being government-owned, -operated or -provided. Why would I want that to succeed? I don't believe in that. I know that's not how this country is going to be great in the future. It's not what made this country great. So I shamelessly say, 'No, I want him to fail.' If his agenda is a far-left collectivism -- some people say socialism -- as a conservative, heartfelt, deeply, why would I want socialism to succeed?"

So when Republicans want Obama's liberalism to fail, critics call it a death wish -- an effort to undermine Obama and the nation. When, however, the majority of Democrats wanted Bush to fail -- with our country at war in Afghanistan and Iraq -- it reflected a "thoughtful" matter of principle.

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About The Author
Larry Elder is a syndicated radio talk show host and best-selling author. His latest book, "What's Race Got to Do with It?" is available now.
 
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As Always, Sage, You Are On Target!
Yes, I, too, want Obama to fail at his clear destruction of American competitive, Free Market Capitalism. No other system on earth has delivered as many people out of peverty than competitive free market capitalism. Why kill it?

Freedom, first!

Rush Says it Correctly
If Obama is going to implement good policies, then we want success. If he's going to implement BAD policies, we want FAILURE.

And the sooner the better. Get the failure out of the way so we can move on. Maybe, as unlikely as it seems, the liberals will learn from that failure.

Unfortunately, it will more likely be several generations before the full impact of that failure will be felt. Historians of the future might point to this administration as the turning point where Socialism finally started full speed in this country -- too late to do anything about it of course.

I can only speak for myself, a Democrat
When Bush was selected as president by the Supreme Court, I hoped for the best. I didn't vote for the guy, but I'm an American! I wanted to keep my job, wanted my investments to increase in value, I wanted the U.S. to be safe. After 9/11 I was on the president's side as he planned to attack the Taliban in Afghanistan. But I balked at the veering off into an attack on Iraq in 2002-2003. I wasn't convinced that our national security was at risk. I didn't think we had enough military resources to succeed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Just FYI, it's terrifying to worry about being smarter than the president. When Bush insisted on tax cuts while expanding the "war on terror" to Iraq, I became a protester. After that point, nothing Bush did seemed rational. Nothing I've seen since validates his decisions.

Isn't it interesting that Obama has been assigned the task of rescuing Bush's legacy? If the economy keeps on tanking for the next decade, Bush's second term will be the point where it started. Forever. No appeal. "The second Great Depression began in September of 2008 at the end of President Bush's second term."

If the economy begins to recover quickly, the Republicans can claim it was just a temporary blip, just a predictable bump along the road to unfettered capitalistic paradise. Obama's stimulus bills were just unnecessary pork. I truly hope the economy recovers quickly. Those are my investment dollars in the 401K plan.

We all wait as reality weighs in.

Repubs and conservatives have a LOT more
important issues than tearing down Obama -- or chastizing dems for what they did or did not say about Bush.

Cons: Your party is in freefall. Your leader is -- ? Who? Michael Steele? Limbaugh? Sarah Palin? Gingrich? Nobody knows. There are terrible schisms in the fabric of the GOP. The center is not holding. Half the party want a party of change (a new direction to fit the changing times), half the party wants ideas that seemed to work in the past.

I would suggest that it might be helpful to spend half the time coming to terms with and healing these rifts - your own broken, rudderless, drifting, dissparate elements you've assembled under the Big Tent - as you do beating up on Obama.

The GOP is at a terrible low point right now. And everybody is angry and looking the other way.

Will: And Who And What Is YOUR Leader?
Will writes, "Cons: Your party is in freefall. Your leader is -- ? Who?"

That statement is a better statement about the Democrat party, and as a result the nation suffers. A year from now it will be hard to find people who will actually admit they voted for Obama, maybe not even you.

Will, it's going to get harder and harder for you to make excuses for Obama, and eventually you will resent that you feel obligated to defend his stupidity.

Most of us here at TH already KNOW who and WHAT Obama is, and eventually, you'll grow up and know the difference in right and wrong.

I respectfully disagree, cowalker.
Cowalker:

You say that if the economy picks up, it will validate Bush. But, obviously, it won't. At least, not in the eyes of the people. Our economy was tanking. If Obama steps into office and things get better, it would obviously validate Obama.

Bush inherited a recession and, not long after his policies went into effect, the economy turned around. That didn't validate Clinton. It validated Bush.

And, since federal revenues went UP after Bush's tax cuts, I just don't see your logic in viewing it as a bad move. Again: Federal revenues went UP after Bush's tax cuts.

I also respectfully disagree with Will.
Will:

So, you think that conservatives should just sit back and lick our own wounds... all while Obama and his administration pass whatever they want, whenever they want??? Really???

If we see our country quickly going down a dangerous, dead-end road which would end in nothing but disaster, our petty wounds can wait.

Will- Same Post... Same Retort

Will,
You posted the exact same thing two days ago and I will tell you again that when a party is shut out of both the Legislative and Executive branches of government, they do NOT have a leader. Who was the leader of the Demoncrats when the Republicans were in control, uh?

Please just quit posting the same insane, inane drivel every damn day on every page on TH. Get over your BDS and your BRS. It is so passe' and makes you look foolish. If you want kudos and undying affection, mosey on over to the Daily Kooks or the Puff Hos. I am sure the will scream their panties in delight.

Get this straight. Like Rush, I, too, hope that Obama FAILS, if he attempts to usher in a velvet glove socialist revolution. Conversely, your team just wanted Bush to fail period.

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/03/11/james-carville- explicitly-expressed-a-wish-for-bush-to-fail/

I agree with you, Cowalker
I, too, did not vote for Bush but was ready to stand with him in the war against the Taliban and Al Queda in Afghanistan. I also was disappointed with his decision to invade Iraq rather than finish the job against the people who implemented the 9/11 disaster.

What Elder and cons posting here don't quite understand is that the disgust with Bush developed after several of his decisions did not turn out well while the end results of Obama's decisions are yet to unfold.

Its apparent cons are not concerned about whether or not Obama's policies are successful in turning around the economy, making healthcare affordable, improving education, etc. but are more concerned with the methods used in achieving such successes. The underlying implication is that cons would rather the country continue to muddle through its problems rather than see a successful turnaround come about due to the policies of a democratic president and congress.

This type of thinking is very much different than the negativity aimed toward Bush. Using the old adage, Bush "made his own bed" and had to lie in it.


Pray For His Salvation
It's been obvious to me ever since I started doing research on Barack Obama last October that, unless by the grace of God he was transformed into a new creation, his election would be a tragedy for the United States. That instead of 'Slouching Towards Gomorrah' we'd be arriving. I haven't seen anything to change my mind.

But Barack Obama, George Soros, Bill Ayers, Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, radical professors and other Marxists, economic collapse, or even Islamic terrorists aren't our greatest threat.

God is.

God holds the welfare of this nation in the palm of His hand. Our current status is a sign of His displeasure. And who can blame Him. A lukewarm church. A corrupt and immoral government and culture. Millions of babies slaughtered. He's weeping. And it looks like His amazing patience, grace, and mercy is ending.

He loves us with a love that we can't even begin to imagine. But He's also a Holy God. He's an awesome God.

Like Dutch Sheets in his post election letter wrote:

"I don’t know where the unbiblical belief comes from that says a nation can live any way it pleases, can reject God and His ways-even mock Him-and not receive His judgments."

"In warning of judgment, I am not suggesting that God is going to intentionally and directly hurt people. Much judgment is simply the absence of God’s protection and provision, caused by a rejection of His laws and ways. We have been experiencing some forms of judgment in America for years, but God in His incredible patience and mercy has kept us from the level we’ve deserved."

http://thoughtsofglory.com/2008/11/06/dutch-sheets-response -to-the-election/

LionHeart
I know how it will turn out just like I knew how Bush would turn out (hence why I never cast a vote for the man). It will end badly because it's all been done before. Obama's strategy isn't new, it's all the same junk that's failed for millenia. New name, same old crap. The idea of giving up everything to a central authority to dole out to the public is as old as man itself. It never works just like military imperialism and mercantilism (Bush in Iraq, Obama with Pakistan) never works.

Until people stop pretending we can just wave a magic wand ... called laws, regulations, safety nets and universal [insert limited resource here] these days ... and make all injustice vanish things will never get better. We also need to stop pretending we can engage in imperialism, too. Imperialism killed Rome and Great Britain, Socialism ruined Babylon and (numerous times) China.

How about thinking of something new? I'm tired of getting the socialist and imperialist fruitcake regifted back to me every couple of years.

Not One of Elder's Better Columns ...
but the comments are interesting.

Hate to say: I Told You So. (not) 1

THE FOLLOWING IS A LETTER THAT I SUBMITTED TO MY LOCAL NEWSPAPER IN SEPT. '08.

It was published, drawing the ire of many of my black brethren here in our moderately sized, Democrat-leaning So.IL city.
____________________________________________

According to an article which ran in the December 20, 2007 issue of the NY Times, "In 1999, Senator Barack Obama was faced with a difficult vote in the Illinois legislature-to support a bill that would let some juveniles be tried as adults, a position that risked drawing fire from African-Americans, or to oppose it, possibly undermining his image as a tough on crime moderate…

In the end, Mr. Obama chose neither to vote for nor against the bill. He voted "present," effectively sidestepping the issue, an option he invoked nearly 130 times as a state senator. Mr. Obama voted present on questions that had overwhelming bipartisan support. In at least a few of these cases, the issue was politically sensitive.

Mr. Obama's record in the Illinois Senate, or lack of one in the U.S. Senate, are strong indicators that he is ill-prepared to assume the role of Commander-in-Chief of our country in a time where strong leadership on important and controversial politically sensitive issues demands clear and decisive leadership.

Hate to say: I Told You So. (not) 2

Obama’s failure to even vote points, strikingly, to an absence of the guts necessary for his taking a leadership role on any key political issue. Even now, he is constantly side-stepping and flip-flopping on every major issue he is confronted with in his presidential election bid.

Why should anyone believe that he has the strength of convictions to fulfill his promises that he will be the agent of “Change” and “Hope” he is now loudly proclaiming he is uniquely qualified to be?

For a President and Commander-in-Chief, it will not suffice for him to merely vote "present" in the War Rooms and secret briefing rooms of the Pentagon, NSA, and White House.

His record of his failure to take a firm stand on ANY issue upon which the leader of our nation will be singularly positioned to have to do, make Barack Obama uniquely unqualified to lead, and his being the President and Commander-in-Chief of the United States of America way beyond his pay-grade.
_____________________________________________

I'm enjoying the knowing glances of these people now that they see that "The Great Black Hope" is the empty suit, and empty head I tried to warn them he was.

I'm talking about church people here (even pastors) who sold out everything they professed to believe, in exchange for emotionalism and a selfish/carnal desire to have their King Saul.

Well...they got him.

And he has nothing for them.

'told you so.

Cowalker
"When Bush was selected as president by the Supreme Court,

Thanks for saving me the time of not having to read the rest of your post.

Liberal Lies
Since what Rush meant was perfectly clear I can only attribute the off the wall reaction to the habit of liberals to lie. Either that or they just can't bring themselves to say: "How dare you say you hope Socialism fails!" (Of course it would, but we hope Obama doesn't succeed in implementing Socialist policies as much as he would like to.) Instead, they say: "How dare you say you hope the President fails!"

These are the same people who wanted President Bush to fail and wanted the country to lose in Iraq. They certainly have their nerve.

R

Moer of the same
This colummn just shows how lib dems seek to apply standards to which they themselves feel exempt from having to follow. They ridiculed President Bush mercilessly and felt entirely justified yet one person, with the freedom to speak as they wish, says they hope the dangerous policies of an inept president fail, the din could not be any louder. WHy dont we just do away wit hthe term democrat and call them by their real name hypocrites.

Justin -- it's been a while
Since I saw imperialism brought up on a TH thread -- other than one of Pat Buchanan's columns, that is, where it's a staple.

I always ask the same question, though. If America has an empire like Rome, where is it?

After all, when Rome conquered a nation, it became part of the empire. By my count, then, the Stars and Stripes should be flying over London, Mexico City, Tripoli, Madrid, Vienna, Berlin, Rome, Tokyo and (given the actions of Vichy) Paris.

The problem isn't that America is an empire; the problem is we aren't empire enough.

Doc Liberty
You correctly wrote: "The problem isn't that America is an empire; the problem is we aren't empire enough" It makes people sound so ignorant when they say America is an imperialist country especially when you realize how true your statement is. America could possess countries all around the world but we dont.

Denise-DLiberty-OAAMarine-N-Roanld-Other
This is like saying that someone who buys a scrawny, live, turkey on Halloween wants him to fatten up. Liberals SAID they wanted President Bush to fail in EVERY way but verbally. Rush clearly stated that he wanted Obama to fail IF he broke HARD to the left. He has, the economy is tanking and Plastic Surgery Piglosi is sniffing around for another Swindle-us Bill. Rush Limbaugh, correct 98.7% of the time :)!


pathetic
Elder seems to secretly be trying to prove the opposite of the case that he claims to be proving. The best he can do to establish that democrats wanted Bush policies to fail is that an entertainer who makes no pretense of political leadership recognized that the question of whether he wanted us to win in Iraq was dependent on what O'Reilly meant by win in Iraq.

That and a two choice poll, perhaps the least useful way of getting information accurately since it is hard to know what respondents think they are being asked about.

Presumably the lack of actual democrats saying that they want Bush to fail, or his Iraq policy to fail, is indicative of the fact that democrats thought Bush's policy were going to fail given how idiotic they were, but given the consequences of them failing, it was not really possible to wish for it. Of course the suffering happened anyway, but that is the fault of the people who instituted the policies and supported them, not the people who opposed them.

Many republicans accused democrats of being unpatriotic and callous in wanting Bush to fail. Now it seems clear that they were simply assuming that democrats would act like them if the situation was reversed.

IT WAS ALL OUT ASSAULT TO DESTROY BUSH
The question of whether the Democrats wanted Bush to fail is not one of yes or no, but of the Degree to which they wanted him to fail.

Since the day Bush was nominated, there was an all out assault to DESTROY BUSH, his administration and his policies by the Democrats as well as by our sycophantic Liberal to far left anti-Conservative / anti-Republican Media / Press.

killer
Nice... You can't refute the argument so you attack the way its written.

What did he say that was untrue?

Nothing that Obama, Reid, and Pelosiare doing right now would indicate the democrats will do well in 2010. Reid and Pelosi have approval ratings FAR lower than your beloved George W. Bush.

You should clean the filth off your parents' basement windows. Perhaps then some reality could find its way into your life.

Democrats are more honest
At least Democrats who rooted for Bush to fail gave him a significant amount of time in office before judging his policies and behavior. There wasn't a "Rush" to judgment (ha ha) in trying to predict failure or hope he failed. Bush revealed how inadequate he was as a president. Democrats eventually pointed out his failures, which is hugely different than hoping he failed.

Why are all ther trolls on this thread?
Go to Kos or Movealong where you'll be appreciated and loved.

The left hated Bush for not letting Gore steal FL in 2000, after they flew in all those unemployed minorities from Newark to register and vote on the same day (I have no proof of this, but I worked for dozens of years in N. Jersey politics, and it sounds perfectly reasonable to me.)

Then Bush had the gall to send Jim Baker and a team of lawyers as soon as the Dems. started imagining dancing chads and *voter intentions.*

They got even more furious when the FL Sup. Ct. overrode its own leg.'s election laws to promote the recount, that was only for 4 Dem. counties with Dem. supervisiors and Dem. election boards and Dem.-created ballots and Dem. recounters, and Bush actually appealed to the Sup. Ct.

Bush was NOT ELECTED by a 5-4 US Sup. Ct. vote. He was elected by 51% of the electorate, and the Sup. Ct. said 7-2 that FL voters' due process was violated by a recount that had no standards and no consistency. If the Coleman-Franken debacle in MN goes to the Sup. Ct., that decision will be its precedent.

Bush came into office on the edge of the 1999-2000 dot.com crash (loss of $15 trillion in equity), faced 9/11 within 9 mons., and thereafter created an ec. that grew at 4% for five years with 0 inflation and 0 interest, the lowest unemployment since WW II (4.36%), a win in Afghanistan, the demise of a second Hitler in Saddam Hussein, and a growing democracy of Muslimn-Arabs in the center of the Mid East.

If Iraq is not abandoned too precipitously and is successful, it wil be the FIRST MUSLIM DEMOCRACY. For that, in 30 years they'll want to put Bush on Mr. Rushmore.

Truman left office with a 22% popularity and a Dem. Party that told him not to let the door hit him. Now, he's ranked as one of our best pres. Go figure.

Jeffrey
MAYBE you are right when you say dems didnt "rush" to judgement about Bush but they were also VERY slow to give him any credit. As to pres hussein we dont need a lot of time to see that he is driving our economy over a cliff. Given that republicans think his plan is destructive, isnt it appropriate that we would want him to "fail" or otherwise not achieve that destructive goal?

cowalker...
George Bush's second term started to fail in 2006. About the time that the Democrats took the Congress. Check the stats before you condemn.

WILL...

You actually did a post without mentioning homosexuality. Congratulations! Who'd a thunk it.

Lon
Do you stay awake at night dreaming this stuff up? Hoping pres hussein fails is less destructive then the tact the dems took to ridicule and marginalize President Bush. They mocked his verbal guffaws and questioned his intteligence, yet the teleprompter king gets a free pass. Guess what? Its time for all of us to put on our big girl panties and recognize we all have a RIGHT to question and point out the perceived faults of ANY president. Get over it!

n
Did anyone suggest you could not criticize Obama's verbal guffaws or his poliies or faults? Certainly it wasn't me. I do think there is a lack of character involved in rooting for the failure of policies when those policies failing would mean massive suffering among Americans. If you want to root for a lot of people suffering so that you can say I told you so, fine. But people are allowed to find fault with such a view. Get over it.

If you root for large scale suffering amont the American people, some people will be critical of you. That is life. Some people don't agree with you that Americans suffering on a large scale would be a good thing.

Spot on Mr. Elder
The difference between Liberals and conservatives is we conservatives truly care about what happens to our country. The Liberals only care about their political agenda. The Liberals are so hell bent on wanting to be in power, they will say or do whatever it takes to achieve it, even at the expense of giving aid and comfort to the enemy and maligning the men and women in uniform.

Their behavior is treasonous and now we have a Socialist in the White House who does not care one iota for the country or the American people. His only concern is his twisted Socialist utopia he has planned for the country. The Liberals are hateful, greedy, snobby elitists who look down their noses at the unwashed masses in the country with disgust and distain in their heart.

Not only did the left want Bush to fail, but the Drive-by media hoped for Bush to fail. They were just as shameful.

I really truly believe, in the words of Michael Savage…Liberalism is a mental disorder.

Liberalism - psuedo religion
Liberals do not give a rats a$$ about this country. They hate everything good about it (Traditional) and want to remake it in their twisted vision of utopia. Savage is right, Liberalism is a Mental disorder

"cowalker" from OH
Don't you think, after eight years, you can get over President Bush? Bush was ELECTED, not selected. Get over it and grow up. You and your liberal ilk sound like a bunch of whining children who don't get their way. Your candidates lost (in 2000 and '04... thank God). Instead of looking for some conspiracy, I suggest that you go back to the drawing board and retool your message to convince the citizenry of your way of thinking. That is what the Republicans are doing now. They do not want to see President Obama's policies to succeed, and are retooling to convince the country.

Please grow up.

I'm so confused
To say the democrats didn't start on Bush right away is so untrue. There was an immediate and resounding chorus of "He stole the election - he's not MY president." He began to be stonewalled by the congress from the beginning. The senate spent eight years stopping appointments to the federal bench.

However Bush did try to work with the democrats - Sir Ted Kennedy on the "no child left behind" act (who then spent the next seven years stabbing him in the back).

After being scared out of their wits by 9/11 most democrats authorized the use of force in Iraq. Then when the other shoe didn't drop after a while they started trying to "rationalize" their votes with statements like "I only authorized the use of force in order to scare Saddam I didn't thin it would actually happen"

I also truly believe that the position of many democrats prolonged the war and increased the casualties by their "The war is lost" and likening our soldiers to storm troopers killing innocent civilians in the dark of night - or to Nazis (Dick Durbin). It gave the terrorists heart and caused the Iraqi citizens to hunker down while waiting to see if the US would cut and run - thank goodness they didn't - for the Iraqis and for us.

The big difference is that MOST liberals wanted Bush's policies to fail because they hate(d) President Bush. Most conservatives want Obama's policies to fail because they hate Obama's policies.

I think it extremely funny that after stonewalling Bush for two years (2006-2008) on everything the democrats now come out and say, "It's time for all the partisanship to end and get behind this president" What a laugh.

Lon
I believe exactly the opposite with regards to obama's policies. I believe their success will result in CONTINUED suffering. His meddling and interventions will only perpetuate the damage the government has already done. So no I am not for anyone suffering yet I fear thats exactly what will happen with the plans obama has rolled out.

I also believe when the suffering worsen due to obama's plans it is YOU who will be criticized, so its not me that will have to get over it that will be you!

One other thing
Not really related to this article but in Larry's book "Ten Things you can't say in America" one of the chapters was "Blacks are more racist than whites". If you ever had any doubt about the veracity of that statement it must have been blown away by the number of times Obama's campaign pulled out the race card and how it continues under his administration - with apparently Eric Holder as the pointman.

Also let's see how many federal prosecutors are replaced under Obama and how much fuss is raised by the dems about how and why it was done.

Truth Is Bush Courted Failure in Iraq

LARRY ELDER writes, "Democrats Wanted Bush to Fail." But whatever Democrats wanted is irrelevant; George W. Bush was Commander-in-Chief and success or failure depended on Mr, Bush's decisions.

It was not a Democrat, but a Conservative leader, the late William F. Buckley, Jr., who, three years into the Iraq War, declared the Iraq War to be a failure. In Buckley's words, "Pres. Bush's failure."

If Pres. Bush had wanted to succeed in Iraq he would have honored his promise to the American people five months before the war started, to "plan carefully" before putting our military at risk.

If Mr. Bush had wanted to succeed in Iraq he would have honored his promise to the American people to use the "full might" of the world's most powerful military to ensure swift victory.

If Pres. Bush had wanted to succeed in Iraq he would have placed in command competent leaders instead of inept buddies such as Donald Rumsfeld, whom John McCain, for four years accused of conducting a "terribly mismanaged" war.

And if Pres. Bush had wanted to succeed in Iraq he would never have permitted what Mitt Romney has charged was a war effort that was
(after initial success) "mismanaged, underprepared, underplanned and understaffed."

No Credibility
The entire basis of Oblaba (he's still invoking the "I inherited this mess" line - I guess if I did nothing in the Senate but run for president ...) the dims, the pmm (Propaganda Media Machine) and their cohorts has been that nothing Bush or Republicans did was right, good or important. They wanted to lose a war, have a depression, stop judges that would end late term baby killing, didn't want oil drilling so they could run up costs, etc.

No one could get this message out even with the ridiculous attacks on McCain and Palin while ignoring Oblaba's past. And when Murtha fooled the average Pittsburgher even after calling them dopes it has shown the scope of the dim conspiracy. If they push shamnesty we should be able to rally along with the tea parties by 2010.

nmi
So you think dim comments openly calling our troops killers and murderers and declarations of defeat and calls for pullout had no detrimental effect at all? That those politicians bear no blame for conditions in Iraq? Once they encouraged the enemy outside a closed confrontation with the opposing party and president they were traitors in the name of politics. And no amount of Bush bashing is going to change that. Ask Hanoi Jane.

Bottom line
What did Bush policy get us?

Iraq: If Iraq was so wrong why didn't the wife of the former president warn against it. Bill Clinton had the access to all the intelligence Bush had. Bill Clinton could have warned her to vote against because she was being buffaloed by a baffoon. HE DID NOT! Why, Because he believed Hussein had the weapons.
Free independent government of the people.
Fifty million freed from the terror brought about by their own government even though France and Germany, supposed allies were negotiating contracts with Hussein.
Just as the administration said suck them in (the terrorists) and fight them there.
The administration has shown the incompetence of some of our allies as a fighting force. They could not hold Afganistan because they use the U.N. do not shoot unless shot out rules of warfare, reported by Das Siegel.

Science: By limiting access to embryos the Bush administration helped to spur other stem cell research that has led to progress in developing new cures. If emryonic research were such a panacea why haven't the French, Russians or Chinese announced some great break through?

Defense: We haven't been attacked.

n
You don't seem to understand what the word success means. If economic conditions get worse, Obama will not be reelected, and in political terms that means the policy are not a success.

I suppose it is ok to root against the success of Obama's policies if one is talking Bizarro English in which a policy is successful if it brings about bad results that reflect poorly on the advocates of the policy.

But most discussion is presumed to be in English.

liberals hate the military
The Dems had Harry Reid on the floor of the Senate proclaiming the “surge has failed the war is lost”. They wanted to “de-fund” the war while troops were in the field. They did EVERTHING they could to make us loose the war in Iraq. They went out of their way to make our military loose, and disgrace the US as a weak gutless nation. They wanted the terrorists to have a win, just so they could blame George Bush. They wanted irrevocable harm done to this country and it’s military (Whom they despise) for the sole purpose of party politics. Party power 1st, country be damned, and the media was egger to be their propaganda wing.
Don’t agree with the war, ok, but there are other ways than to yank the rug out from under the troops fighting in the field. What the hell, who cares if some of those neo-con brainwashed GI’s die as long as we can blame Bush. Imagine where we would be if everybody supported the mission, we finished and came home. We’re also most done now, thanks to Bush and BO can claim he finished it. Gag me….

Know why the liberals hate the military? Because it teaches responsibility and independence, those are the exact opposite qualities needed for the proletariat to be coerced into voluntary servitude as subjects of the state, not citizens of the state.

indyconantidim
"...nothing Bush or Republicans did was right, good or important..."

I agree. I think with the liberal crowd, it was a personal thing. Two examples:

--Immediately after 9/11, when almost everyone agrees that Bush was at his best, the main focus by liberals was on (1) his initial shock at hearing the news of the hijackings and (2) his spending the rest of the day on Air Force One. (BTW, how do you think Obama would have reacted in GW's place?).

--Even when Bush did something to p*ss off conservatives and appease the liberal crowd (e.g., amnesty for illegals), they never gave him props for any of it.


Dane
"After being scared out of their wits by 9/11 most democrats authorized the use of force in Iraq."

The only thing they were scared of was being called a weak, liberal pacifist. Just like when none of them ran against Bush l with the Gulf War victory fresh on everybody's mind. If only Perot had felt that way we'd never had Clinton.

renny
Not sure if your comment on Bush v Gore was directed at me since it seems to be a reference to a comment I made, but not to this article.

I don't, and never did, blame Bush for winning through Supreme Court annointment. Gore would have done the same if he could have. I do blame the Supreme Court for abandoning its principles in that decision and giving down a ruling that was never meant to be taken seriously. (Minor variations in how butterfly ballots were to be read constituted unacceptable imbalances within the state while much larger variations in what kinds of ballots were used which had a much bigger effect on the election result didn't. Nobody actually believed the principles in that decision. They were ludicrous on the face of them).

Also Bush did not win 51% of the votes from the electorate. He got fewer votes than Gore did. He won because elections are decided in the electoral college not based directly on votes from the electorate.

Finally, no matter what happens in the Franken-Coleman case the Supreme Court is never going to use the Bush v Gore decision as a precedent. In fact they included in the argument the idea that it would never be used in that way. It is doubtful that the phony issues used in that case will be replicated in the Minnesota case anyway, but noone on the court wants to remind people about the ludicrous reasoning in Bush v. Gore. It was the ultimate in one-off decisions. Even the majority that voted for it didn't believe in the principles underlying.

But my point in bringing up Bush was not to say that Bush was not a legitimate president. He was not to blame for the Court's decision to disregard principle. It was to note MacKenzie's hypocrisy in criticizing Obama's comment about winning after his clear win despite not objecting to Bush's claim of a mandate after getting fewer votes than his opponent.

Carville Wanted Bush to Fail
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/11/carville-wanted- bush-fail/

On the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, just minutes before learning of the terrorist attacks on America, Democratic strategist James Carville was hoping for President Bush to fail, telling a group of Washington reporters: "I certainly hope he doesn't succeed."

Allen
good point. It is wrong to think that the Iraq war did not have any good consequences. Without it Obama wouldn't be president. After all had Hilary Clinton not made the poor political decision to back that turker of a war, she would have been the democratic nominee, and not Obama.

Of course Bill Clinton, with access to that same information, told the Bush administration that the threat was bin Laden, not Hussein. Amazingly, even after 9-11 the Bush people still didn't believe him.

Hilary Clinton made a poor decision in backing the war. It was cynical in that she thought it would improve her chances for the nomination when in fact it ultimately killed them. And it showed a willingness to back a war based on weak evidence.

It is good to have the adults back in charge with Obama.

Speaking of Iraq
I saw a couple of WWII documentaries recently that were, to say the least, enlightening.

I hadn't realized that even with Germany's total collapse and a huge Allied occupation force, there were still die-hard Nazis killing and sabotaging our troops three years after VE day. I had always thought the war in Europe had had a nice tidy end (as wars go, anyway), and that hardcore SS groups like the Werewolves never got any momentum.

Although it's simplistic to say that history repeats itself, the parallels to Iraq were definitely there.


If the current mainstream media had been around in the late 1940s, I'm sure people would have gotten a steady diet of how the war in Europe was a failure and Roosevelt/Truman were incompetent.

Lon
Please specify the government expense that has been efficiently used on budget for the betterment of the country with no detriment to the economy. Feel free to go back to 1932 forward.
OBTW the results have been very tested and proven.

You can search the world over...
and NEVER, and I mean NEVER find a bigger bunch of overweaning, self-righteous hypocrites than Democrats and Liberals.

It's absolutely breathtaking. Their comeuppance (once again) is going to be a thing of beauty. Their will be indictments every day, elections lost, angry nationwide protests, villification from every corner of our great nation --- it's coming!

"Let not your heart be troubled!"

Oh grow up
The Dems wanted the war to be taken off the table but so did conservatives. Bush had spoken about using his political capital to handle Social Security, Freddie Mac, and Fannie Mae, but conservatives (who claimed to be on his side) only wanted to talk about illegals who have been coming over the Southern border for decades--and who their conservative idol Reagan gave REAL amnesty to.

For 16 years, they've fought the battle of words with one hand tied behind their back. They've attacked a man making a birthday wish not for what he said but what he implied...they've hung and quartered anyone even remotely smelling of scandal as though politicians are supposed to be crystal clean...they've twisted the meaning of words so that "amnesty" means anything less than rounding up Mexicans and "principles" have "loyalty" as an optional.

The party of Republicans WILL win back the WH and Congress...to keep it, they need to grow up and start supporting the leaders chosen by the majority of their party.

Lon
Bush never associated Hussein with 9/11. He associated Hussein with an unfinished threat that had been allowed by a corrupt UN to fester in a region that had already committed the worst foreign attack in American history. As CNC when shadow enemies allied (as far as that goes in Arab terms) with this same threat he made a decision to finish that threat once and for all. You can dispute it but you can't openly promote the failure of this country against its enemie.

If you think there is a future where these Arab cutthroats will ever be an ally I urge you to take the lead and help Oblaba negotiate face to face.

Let's get this straight Lon
You believe that she voted for the war and all the other democrats voted for the Iraq war because of political expediency. Why do you ignore all the other democrats, who sat on the various intell committees? They also voted for and supported the war.

Why would you believe them about anything now? Especially on the economy because most of them were had been elected and went through the S&L Crisis.

Lon, Dems or Libs
Do you believe that the democrats, who railed agianst the Iraq war as not our responcibility, wrong, a civil war, or whatever they were saying, were voting for the best interests of the country or were they voting political opportunism when they continued the war by voting for the funding?

Is this what we are to expect from our representatives?

Barney Frank sat through the S&L crisis but moved to change the rules for Freddie and Fannie despite what he knew. Are you all saying that this is to be expected from our representatives?

Real World Economics
If the argument holds that a poll showing that Democrats wanted Bush to fail was “indicative of the fact that [D]emocrats thought Bush's policy (sic) were going to fail”, the obvious counter is that the same holds with regard to Obama’s economic policies. That they could improve the economy is an impossibility and thus wanting Obama to fail to implement such policies is not only consistent, it’s patriotic.

The argument that “[R]epublicans accused [D]emocrats of being unpatriotic … in wanting Bush to fail” is a legitimate response but serves only to undermine the argument (now made not merely by pundits, but by the administration itself) that the current expression of opinion is somehow deplorable.

The desire for Obama to fail in implementing these policies is specifically BECAUSE they can only result in “massive suffering among Americans” just as they did when the Great Depression was disastrously prolonged by the policies of both Hoover and FDR.

The tragedy is twofold: First, Obama’s defenders are supporting EXACTLY THE SAME Bush policies that precipitated the crisis: DISCREDITED Keynesian policies, expansionist monetary policy, bailouts, “stimulus” (sic) packages and unrestrained spending. No, tax cuts “for the rich” (sic) were never the problem. And second, that recovery when it does come – because, just as business began trying to regain ground from 1934-6 only to be crushed anew by FDR’s policies, even this much damage does not completely destroy entrepreneurial spirit – Obama will take credit for whatever rebound does occur and the uneducated masses will simply believe it.

The reality is that government spending can NEVER “stimulate” the economy and every job “created” by government is offset by at least as many jobs that cannot be created in the productive economy because the resources were coopted by government – either via taxation or by devaluing the currency (deficit spending).

A Double Standard
When Liberals disagreed with Bush, did not support the war in Iraq, and did not promote winning as a realistic goal...They were labled by conservatives as "unpatriotic" and the hate "America First Crowd".

Now that the shoe is on the other foot, conservatives expect the right to disagree with the President and hope for his failure, and still be called patriotic.

But conservatives are right. One should be able to disagree with President and his policies and be called patriotic. Its too bad conservatives cannot extend that courtesy to liberals.

Lon
I wont even try to decypher what you were saying because even with my magic decoder ring it makes no sense whatsoever. Heres the bottom line Obama's policy are going to ruin us! I dont want that to happen. Plain enough for you???

Thank you Larry Elder
For continuing to speak the truth and point out the hypocracy of the Democrat party and the socialist left. You leftist that have posted so far continue to support Larry's point. You also support comments posted on this thread by conservatives that you are ignorant of the facts or have been mislead by the propoganda machine of the MSM. Democrats started whining from DAY 1 when Al Gore was denied from stealing the 2000 election. Many claimed Bush stole the election and he was not my president, blah, blah blah. It didn't start later, it was from day one. The Democrats openly wished for Bush's failure in Iraq, even when that meant death for our brave, volunteer soldiers, sailors and marines. If Bush succeeded, then the Democrats could not regain control of the White House, so they were invested in defeat in Iraq. The MSM, which has its head so far up the Left's sphynkter that they can see daylight out the other side, could never print anything positive about Iraq or any other Bush policy. Even when Bush bent over backward to appease Democrats and pushed leftist agenda (no border protection, no child left behind, no veto of pork laden spending bills) the left hated him. Bush turned out not to be a conservative and they still hated him.
Leftist are the definition of hypocracy and their words and actions support the accusation.

Fail or succeed?
On the one hand, I hope our Lord and Savior fails bigtime. I DON'T welcome the prospect of recreating the Soviet Union right here in the United States, as Der Fuhrer Obama is striving to do.

On the other hand, I realize that if he is a monumental failure, and the Democrats lose power in congress in 2010 and lose the White House in 2012, that doesn't mean we're out of the woods. Their fascism won't have been eliminated. It will just go into hibernation for a little while until they can discover a new disaster to exploit, and come back out in stronger force than ever before to turn us even further down the path of fascism.

So perhaps we should be hoping Obama succeeds. Perhaps if Obama succeeds in pushing his anti-American agenda far enough, when the people really see what life is like in Obama's utopia, they'll realize that, contrary to the propaganda that the Soviet Union released (A friend of mine has this book that was published in the Soviet Union in the 1970s. It was a propaganda piece, with all kinds of pretty color photos saying how wonderful life was in the communist empire.), life really isn't all that great in such a fascist society. Maybe when they realize that, they won't just let the Democratic Party go into their temporary sleep, but instead CRUSH those fascists out of existence once in a while. Maybe when our deficit reaches $4 trillion, unemployment hits 20%, the homeless shelters are over-crowded, and Obama is still there smiling, telling us that we need to raise taxes even more on "rich people" to punnish them, maybe then people will realize that voting for a guy simply because of the color of his skin ain't such a great idea.

Yeah, right. You can't cure stupid. Morons are always going to be morons. Obama could show up to Lon's house and molest his children right in front of him, and he'd be here five minutes later explaining how great Der Fuhrer Obama is!

Yes, I hope Obama fails!

wait a minute
elder uses a fox poll to make his point.

that is laughable.

second, rush clearly said he wanted obama to fail.

here is the transcript from his show.

So I’m thinking of replying to the guy, “Okay, I’ll send you a response, but I don’t need 400 words, I need four: I hope he fails.” (interruption) What are you laughing at? See, here’s the point. Everybody thinks it’s outrageous to say. Look, even my staff, “Oh, you can’t do that.” Why not? Why is it any different, what’s new, what is unfair about my saying I hope liberalism fails? Liberalism is our problem. Liberalism is what’s gotten us dangerously close to the precipice here. Why do I want more of it? I don’t care what the Drive-By story is. I would be honored if the Drive-By Media headlined me all day long: “Limbaugh: I Hope Obama Fails.” Somebody’s gotta say it.

elder is simply re-writing history.

as far as democrats wishing bush would fail, there may have been some crazies saying that, but i have no proof of such, but no american wants the president to fail.

except, of course, rush and his cult.

Hope and Change
I learned a long time ago not to place my hope in Man. I was amazed at how low we had come as a nation to even consider someone like Obama to be our President. The people loved this guy reading a script. Not his words but the words of someone with a complete nation changing agenda. The guilt-driven whites, the young brainwashed college attendees, and the democrat-controlled black population had their MAN. They worshipped then and continue to worship now this Man without any reservations. I could have never voted for Obama. His lack of principles, his lack of experience, and his professed socialist beliefs were enough but I had a stronger and more damning reason. You see, I am a Christian who does believe that life begins at conception (even tho that is above Obama's paygrade). When Il State Senator Obama introduced and pressed for a bill denying medical treatment for surviving babies of botched abortions, I knew then all I needed to know about this individual. If more Christians had voted as true - GOD loving and GOD fearing Christians - I believe GOD would have blessed this Nation beyond our unimaginable dreams. GOD gives us HOPE and I know GOD will bring CHANGE to our Nation.

christanlib
different interviews. Mr. Elder quoted from the Hannity Show. You're quoting from Limbaugh's radio show.


christianlib for the sake of argument
Do you truly believe Rush wants America (Obama)to fail or is this just a way for you to help yourself justify your support for democrats?

Do you believe the democrats in Congress during the S&L crisis were being incompetent in allowing the banking crisis or was it deliberate? Both parties sat in the same committees and voted on the same legislation. Steny Hoyer and Charles Shumer were co-sponsors of the legislation that led to the mortgage crisis prior to the S&L collapse. Garn-St Germain.

ybnormal
that may be true, but elder presents it as though it was misreported.

that is why i went to the limbaugh website to get the actual transcript.

by the way i like your nickname.

Allen
i really am not that partisan.

yes, i really believe rush wants america to fail.

i have listened to him for years and i believe he wants the country to sink into a depression so he and conservatives can blame it on obama and the democrats.

there is blame on both sides for the s&l and the banking meltdown.


beowulfe
Is that name from a children story? Your level of economic understanding is "Childlike"! Americans don't have to worry about Communism or Socialism. Every time there is a "Downturn", the "Idiots" come out with their political interpretation of economic events. It is extremely difficult to accurately make economic predictions, having to make political assessments as well, is overwhelming. The aforementioned statement, places the current events beyond your understanding. Your statements are absent of intellectual value and may be "Inane".

Blasphemy
Liberals view Obama as something very special. Actually, he has a personality disorder similar to Jim Jones, Hitler, and Lenin. Like any charismatic, his followers will not quietly tolerate criticism. This man is dangerous, especially while he has the backing of the MSM.

I find Limbaugh somewhat amusing, but can only take him for a few minutes. He needs to be more cognizant of the damage a few stray words can do. He should criticize Obama's actions and results, not the man himself, or risk damaging conservatism. Liberals and the press will defend the man, but may have more trouble defending his results.

Democrats, including Clinton and Obama, have said that our current crisis is too good an opportunity to waste. It is logical then that they will have no qualms about prolonging the crisis. I see this manifested in the way they are spending money on things of questionable value. We need to keep hammering on these things. The Democrats are feeling invincible. We need to use their own stupidity and audacity against them.

Thank you for an excellent commentary, Larry. Miss you on XM.

christianlib
Wouldnt anybody who sees a person driving a car over a cliff want that person to "fail"? If people believe that obama's policies would essentially drive our economy over a cliff, shouldnt they hope that he "fail"? I suppose you would consider it unpatriotic to not let the president drive the economy over a cliff.

christianlib
Wouldnt anybody who sees a person driving a car over a cliff want that person to "fail"? If people believe that obama's policies would essentially drive our economy over a cliff, shouldnt they hope that he "fail"? I suppose you would consider it unpatriotic to not let the president drive the economy over a cliff.

Riddle me this, killer
If "Americans don't have to worry about Communism or Socialism", thus implying that Obama is neither a communist or a socialist, tell me: Were he actually a socialist, what would he be doing differently?

n
i thought bush was driving the car off the cliff in iraq but is still did not want him to fail.

i have read and listened to every economist and so-called expert about what to do about this economy and none of them can give a concrete answer.

you are seeing this as ideological.

i say it is practical.

every other country in the world is doing the same thing, i.e. bailing out the banks and stimulating their economy.

now obama and his economists may be wrong but no one has offered any alternative than the same lame conservative dogma we have heard since reagan.

tax cuts did not work.

both reagan and bush left office with huge deficits and reagan actually had to raise taxes so as not to run up a bigger deficit.

now put this all together.

how do you know he is driving off the cliff.

you don't, you "believe and feel" he is but you don't know.

I wonder Carl a democrat in disguise
State a position and defend it. Otherwise it is like reading something from a liberal.

Obama is a figure head for the democrat left. They won by disinformation. They claimed not to support the war but voted for funding every time. They said Bush lied but there was a person who would have known, Bill Clinton. Clinton did not come out and say Bush was wrong. Why? They said Bush was anti-science though the advances in stem cells was evident and even sometimes reported.

Republicans did not defend Bush because, I suspect that they knew they were going to get their payout at the end of the Bush term. Republicans and democrats knew the banking crash was coming and allowed it.

Check the history of the S&L Bailout.

Rush Limbaugh Wants America To Win
christianlib offers, "i have listened to him for years and i believe he wants the country to sink into a depression so he and conservatives can blame it on obama and the democrats."

You are either disengenuous or or simply being a provocative prick.

There is no way that you could honestly believe that Limbaugh wants America to fail. That is just a stupid, school-yard taunt. Grow up.

Christianlib
You ask great questions which I will answer. While I do that I have a kind of challenge for you. Explain to me how tax cuts dont work!

killer
Why do you keep on attacking people for their lack of "economic understanding" when it is so painfully obvious that you have none yourself?

When you talk aout millions disappearing on Wall Street (without reference to the underlying monetary expansion/contraction of the Fed and gov't spending that is the cause) or blame economic changes on ERISA while criticizing those who accurately state that governmental spending is universally bad from an economic standpoint, it only makes the insults you deliver so obviously puerile.

mac moore
when someone publically says they want the president of the united states to fail, please explain how that is not also wanting the country to fail.

agree or disagree with any presidents policies to blatantly wish for him to fail is wishing the country ill.

if you cannot make that connection than you are simply not thinking clearly.

i have listened to rush for a long time.
i actually find him entertaining from time to time.

i heard him when he talked about his wifes daughter wanted to pierce her tongue.

i heard him when he divorced marla.

and so forth and so on.

To A Liberal, Freedom Is Over-Rated
christianlib offers, "second, rush clearly said he wanted obama to fail."

Yes, he did. And, so do I. No system on earth has taken more people out of poverty than competitive, Free Market Capitalism. None! Yet, Obama is brazenly exploiting this crisis to dismantle much of the Free Market into Socialized Central Planning. That much power taken from the people and given to Government will expand poverty, stagnate growth, increase unemployment and stifle innovation.

If Freedom is at the top of your compass, Obama is walking away. If not, he is your man.

Who was it that screeched...
... she was tired of being called unpatriotic for not supporting the last president's policies?

Ah yes, was Hillary.

The Woman Who Was Almost King.


n
i am a small business owner and i have to go visit job sites in 10 minutes so if i don't respond don't take it as me running away.

first, as a business owner if i got a tax cut right now, i would not expand or hire more.
i have used up 50% of my cash reserve since last year so i would replace that first.

do you honestly think that target or home depot getting a tax cut would mean they would re-hire the thousands they have laid off.

no way.

second, there are tax cuts, they are targeted to the middle class who will spend it.

third, tax cuts worked when we were a manufacturing country and ceo's would take the money and build new plants and hire more workers.

now they simply take the money overseas and build new houses here.

we are building the middle class in india because of bush tax cuts.

finally, this is not a normal recession.
this is deep and broad.

we have to get the banks stable and lending again.
we have to get people spending again.

it actually is working.

my local school district had stopped or deferred millions of dollars of construction projects.
i own a construction related business.

obama has sent money to the school district for exactly those construction projects and for the first time in 6 months i have more business than i can handle.

people are being hired for the census.

my son has had two friends get jobs in retail the last 2 weeks because business is picking up.

citigroup is making a profit and will probably repay thier tarp money in the next year.

in other words, from what i see as a businessman we are not driving off a cliff.

cRats are simply anti-American
The cRat party was born in the desire to preserve the racist institution of slavery.

It authored every racist Jim Crow Law.

It murdered a million Native Americans so it could give their lands away at no cost to itself.

It caused, and then prolonged the Great Depression.

It sent thousands of patriotic men and women to Vietnam, then let them die there for nothing. Why? Because patriots are never Dems, and Dems are never patriots.

Since 911 it has been doing everything possible to maximize the number of casualties in Iraq and Afganistan. Why because 19 out of every 20 members of the armed forces votes Republican. cRat never make the sacrifices in this war, so why should they care?

A Concrete Answer
"i have read and listened to every economist and so-called expert about what to do about this economy and none of them can give a concrete answer."

The statement is silly on its face. One does not, for example, have to know the cure for cancer to recognize that drinking Drano to kill the cancer cells is a bad idea. Nevertheless, the Austrial economists have been consistently stating the "concrete answer" all along. The government should do ... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Or, better yet, UNDO the things it has already done, putting shackles on businesses in the form of senseless restrictions against drilling, cap and trade systems, profligate spending, etc.

"every other country in the world is doing the same thing, i.e. bailing out the banks and stimulating their economy."

And in every single case, the effort is an unmitigated and unequivocal failure. Is that a good reason to follow suit. The Keynesian view argues that logic should be abandoned in favor of empirical positivism - forget that logically government cannot spend money unless it gets it from somewhere else and concentrate only on the construction jobs created. But empirically, governmnet spending has never created a single job either on a net basis, because the resources came out of productive job creation elsewhere in the economy. It is nothing more than the "broken window fallacy" understood more than a century and a half ago abandoned by politcians because it doesn't allow them to lie as well.

"tax cuts did not work."

Emprically, again, they unequivocally did. That did not prevent monetary expansion from doing a great deal of damage later.

BTW, your historical revisionism of the Reagan era bears no resemblance to reality either.

Obviously...
"when someone publically says they want the president of the united states to fail, please explain how that is not also wanting the country to fail."

As was completely obvious from the comment in context, the publicly expressed desire for Obama to fail was expressly with regard to his ability to implement his desired policies which, by extension can only cause America to fail. By wanting Obama to fail, the clear point was that he wanted the country to SUCCEED as a result.

christianlib
You started the quote of Limbaughs transcripts with him saying this is how he would respond to some specific question. Without supplying the question it is hard to determine what Limbaugh was refering to when he hoped for the failure.

It is merely an opportunity to latch onto a few words and get as much milage from them as possible.

As to Mr. Obama's policy of spending trillions of dollars every month and a half, I too hope he fails. At his rate of spending we will run out of trees to cut down in order to print worthless money.

The DNC has no one better than a radio talk show host with which they can fight. A sad reflection on both the Democrats and Republicans if you ask me.

Chhristianlib
You asked: "how do you know he is driving off the cliff."

Heres how he is driving us off a cliff. He is expanding government spending with money he does not have. There are only so many ways the government can get money. One is to raise taxes. Another is to cut services and us that money for spending. The only other way I can see to get more money is to print it or borrow it. So lets go one at a time. Raising taxes makes people less productive since most people dont want to give more money to the government. Next I dont see any cuts in government services that would free up money to support the spending. Printing money makes it less valuable and borrowing it adds to our debt.

So in summary we have a deficit so taxing makes people less productive resulting in less revenue. Thats BAD. Not cutting services to make more money availabel, thats BAD. Making the dollar less valuabe, thats BAD and borrowing more money to pay back money you borrowed, thats BAD. 4 examples for BAD's thats over a cliff.

Being President Does Not Make You Right
christianlib offers, "when someone publically says they want the president of the united states to fail, please explain how that is not also wanting the country to fail."

Write this down: A President that fails in his attempt to enact damaging policies is good for America.

This President is doing just that. Instead of focusing on getting us out of our misery, he is taking advantage of our misery to strap us with his ideological Socialized Central Planning agenda. I, like Rush Limbaugh, hope he fails.

It's not the PRESIDENT
The president is not the one who controls the purse strings. If you do not like the economy vote out the Congress.

Call your member of congress and ask how it is they allowed the banking collapse after the S&L crash.

The democrats admitted Pelosi and company wrote the budget package. They do not take Obama seriously when he says no earmarks.

christianlib
Our major difference is in WHO should stimulate the economy. I suspect you think the government should do it. I say giving people more $ iin their pockets stimulates the econmy better. You say your sons friends got job because business is picking up. GREAT! but I bet the government is not responsible for that but rather it was consumers. Tax brreaks in the form of checks dont work since they are a one time event. A tax cut that would permenatly leave money in my pocket, in other words money that I can rely on allows me and all consumers to stimualte the economy.

The Cliff
"how do you know he is driving off the cliff."

How do you know that stepping off the roof of a building won't magically give you the ability to to fly? Maybe, it's because there has never been an instance when following that path has yielded a different result...

christianlib
"when someone publically says they want the president of the united states to fail, please explain how that is not also wanting the country to fail.

agree or disagree with any presidents policies to blatantly wish for him to fail is wishing the country ill."

After listening to the left for the last 8 yrs hoping Bush and Chaney would not only fail but hoping Chaney would have a heart attack and making movies about Bush being assassinated your comments are a joke.

Obama will be seen as Great
It has been either great incompetance or pure intention that we have had this banking crisis.
Prior to the S&L crisis democrats sponsored a bill which loosened mortgage credit prior to the collapse. A bill the democrats give Reagan credit for.

Many current democrat leaders Frank, Dodd and Pelosi were in office or elected during the collapse.

Point is They knew it was coming and still passed legislation to loosen credit (because they say they wanted to help the POOR).

The Madoff theory of economic politics.
Solution democrats pass billions in stimulus (not to stimulate). Then they will change the accounting rules and the banks will suddenly look healthy again.

They (politicians) and their friends pocket the excess; the economy improves because the banks are free to loan because they need not have the loan reserves for loans that are no longer bad and everyone is happy until the inflation when the republicans will be allowed to take over again.

Success and Growth Begs For Cash!!!
christianlib offers, "first, as a business owner if i got a tax cut right now, i would not expand or hire more."

Really?

There are a lot of businesses that think differently, especially those with an itch to grow -- which is nearly every business on earth ..... besides yours, of course.

There are thousands of businesses, even today, that are on a growth curve. Who is supplying McDonald's, Wal-Mart, IBM, Apple and Verizon with their goods that make them so successful, today?

If you are a popular enterprise with a growing demand, you will find yourself cash poor quite often as you buy raw materials at a greater rate than your current revenues. What do you do if you have landed a couple big contracts that covers multiple years and more than your little plant can handle?

Plus, a successful enterprise with a new plant tends to attract even more new Customers. All good, if you can afford it.

With enough tax breaks, the growing enterprise can put more of their profits together to get more equipment, employees and raw materials to grow quicker. These are self sustainable jobs. Meaning that once in place, the business profits will keep them employed. No need for tax money.

Compare that to the 25 policemen that Obama was so proud of. After the "stimulus", who pays their salary? He added 25 emplyees that are not sustainable without increasing taxes. How stimulating is that?

Not ALL Democrats agree

As it happens, I worked in “Democrats for Bush” rather than vote for the Male Jane Fonda!

Allen Location: CA
Date: Mar 12, 2009 - 3:17 PM EST

It's not the PRESIDENT
The president is not the one who controls the purse strings. If you do not like the economy vote out the Congress.

Response:

Thanks Allen, we will do or best to get rid of them in 2010

AND while we are on the subject of the “Radically Wrong” how about the following links to Liberal Democrats EXPOSING themselves!

http://vodpod.com/watch/1038839-dems-refuse-to-reform-fredd ie-fannie-in-2004-video

http://barackswhitelies.blogspot.com/2008/10/oreilly-gets-f rank.html

http://www.mediacircus.com/2008/09/government-engineered-mo rtgage-crisis-no-racism-here-move-along/

Near the end of this video, Bill Clinton admits Democrats are to blame for the Bank Crisis.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/09/memory_lane_lyn ching_franklin.html

The banking crisis was deliberately planned as a campaign strategy.

http://mcauleysworld.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/john-mccains- 2006-warning-about-todays-financial-crisis/

Courtesy of MyOpine Location: CA Mar 3, 2009 on a different thread

I suggest that you purchase your Tea Bags and join the growing “PUBLIC” revolution.

http://www.newamericanteaparty.com

giving money to people?
Dems like to say they are stimulating the economy buy taking from the wealthy to give to the poor.

When taxes on gas and other means of producing energy go up who will it hurt most? When lines at hospitals get longer because of more people having access who does it hurt? When more mercury is dumped into land fills who does it hurt? Oprah, Gates, Pelosi will be doing fine thank you very much.

The idea of carbon offsets. Arnold buys carbon offset from Al Gore. Al Gore promises to plant trees or build a golf course. What makes enviros think it will actually happen? Money making scam.

You want to build a business in this city well says Mr. Politician I have a carbon offset to sell you. Or, yes Mr. Businessman that's ok your buying carbon offsets but this one will actually keep the government off your back.

Well, duh!
Democrats wanted Bush to fail? You don't say! (Yes, I'm being sarcastic).

That's why all the Democrats' pleas for unity will fall on deaf ears with this conservative. They did nothing but sow seeds of division for eight years, and now they whine because Limbaugh says he wants Obama to fail? Who do they think they're kidding?

If Obama succeeds, America fails. I'd rather see my country succeed.

Also a democrat/Michael W. ME
Until last year when didn't think there were any real blue dogs left.

Is it realistic though to think that the democrat party will unload the leftists so long as the MSM portrays Pelosi, Frank as anything other than being far left?

Never ignore words...
...nor statements of intent by politicians. In Mein Kampf, Hitler spelled it all out. His words were ignored.

Obama has made many promises to leftists and abortionists. He will keep these promises. I expect the following, to occur, some of which are apparently already taking place:

a) Silence voices of dissent, whether it be via "Fairness Doctrine", attacking speakers like Limbaugh -- or yet to be revealed tactics --- the aim is the same. In the 'good old days' (for Leninists/Nazis at least), these 'enemies' could just be killed.

b) Force Catholic hospitals, and thus nurses and doctors, to personally perform abortions. In the manner of true bureaucrats, there will be new 'rules' that are 'simply being enforced fairly' that will lead to the choice: keep your license to practice medicine/job OR conduct abortions 'in keeping with the law'.

c) Further diminish the role and influence of America's churches while secular values and The State become the new faith of the land.

d) Legalize the drugs that all liberals used when they were younger, thus eliminating their source of guilt by justifying it, instead of turning from sin and rejecting it. Same apporach has been going on for years in the realm of sexual practices, e.g., 'adult programming' forced into every home that has cable -- lodging 'Hobson's Choice' -- TV's pornography OR absence of the medium's information (see 'b' above in re abortion practitioners and practice of faith).

Rush Limbaugh Hates America
Obviously, that is not true. But isn't that what some people on the right, including Rush Limbaugh, said about anyone who dared to disagree with Bush? If you spoke out against the war you were called a traitor who hates the troops and hates America. For the record, people who were against the war were not rooting for failure. No one was rooting for our brave soldiers to come home in body bags. Once we were there we wanted to win. Also, people didn't really speak out against the war that forcefully until the war started to go badly. The difference here is that Rush is rooting for "failure" before it even starts. If you are rooting for Obama to fail you are indirectly rooting for the country to fail. What if his policies turn out to be the best thing for the country right now? Just because you think his policies will fail doesn't mean they will. Wouldn't you rather be wrong and see the country prosper than be right and see the country continue to suffer?

Laughable Democratic Hypocrisy
It goes off the charts, does it not? For almost eight solid years, they did everything they could to bring down the Bush administration and the country along with it, hoping we would lose the war in Iraq so that Bush would look bad. Well, they're in now, and they are ruining the country. One guy-Rush-says openly that he wants Obama's liberal policies to fail, NOT that he wants Obama to fail as a president, but to govern as Reagan would-and these poor liberal whiners cannot get over it.

To say they are weak leaders and immature individuals would be the understatement of the decade. How do they sleep at night?

Note to the guy with the "stupidity meter"..maybe try not standing so close to it.

Fletch
"You cut me to the Quid"! ERISA of 1974 was a "Trap" for the uneducated. I see that you are still dedicated to that 19th century school of thought. Tax cuts for the upper class could not sustain the economy. There are not enough of them and they did not spend enough. A trillion dollar economy requires a high degree of activity. It important to have "Velocity" but quantity most be sufficient. As you see the economy improve,follow the path less traveled. I don't have to prove my knowledge of economics. I was the only one who said that the American economy would be exposed on 9-15-08. I could have given the time(11.36 a.m.). Keynesian economics gave America a middle class. Don't forget that. SUNNY!!!

Michael Ca. Wrong!
They called David Patraeus "Betrayus" that is what was unAmerican or traitorus.

The far left then picked up on it and portrayed anyone speaking out against the war as being attacked.

The country will seem to prosper. The government is going to change the accounting rule for banks. This will allow the banks to show the bad loans as good thus free the money they must keep in reserve for bad loans. This will free the credit market.

The politicians will have already run away with the money. Then in a few years we mere citizens will be treated to the inflation years that will make the Carter years look good.

Our government is doing what Madoof did on not a billion dollar scale but a trillion dollar scale. Democrats and republicans sat on the banking and finance committees during and after the S&L Crisis. Why did they allow the legislation that led to the banking crisis?

At War With Ourselves

DYCONANTIDIM (TX), responding to my 11;26 am post, writes at 12 noon: "So you think dim comments openly calling our troops killers and murderers and declarations of defeat and calls for pullout had no detrimental effect at all?"

No person with brain function would classify as "killers and murderers" members of the military carrying out orders issued by their superiors.

And no person. from the right or left, with any feeling for our country, could openly declare he or she would wish our President to fail, aware that in the eyes of the world, if the President fails so does our country.

As for George W. Bush, how can anyone possibly defend a President who for FOUR YEARS allowed so important a war as the Iraq War to be run by incompetents, as John McCain has suggested. And how can anyone defend a President who permits so important a war to deteriorate to the point where as Mitt Romney has charged the war was ""mismanaged, underprepared, underplanned and understaffed"? How many casualties did we sustain because of that incompetence and neglect?

Remember -- it was Pres. Bush who, four years into the Iraq War, stopped talking about victory and began warning of the "consequences of defeat." How much more comfort can anyone give our enemies than to have the Commander-in-Chief of the world's most powerful nation, after four years of deadly combat, to be so focused on the "consequences of defeat" rather than on the fruits of victory?


Fixing the market/economy
doesn't require an economist. What would happen if capital gains taxes were cut in half if only for 2 years? People would buy stock in the companies that have good management, prospects, and new and innovative ideas. They would provide the capital for these companies to purchase those that are failing rather than have government pour billions of dollars into propping up what are clearly losers. What would happen if corporate tax rates were reduced in the same way? These coporations would pay their debts, retool, hire more people, and expand. The "rich" would indeed "share their wealth" from the first hire (or rehire)to the consumer who would pay less for better quality products made in the U.S. and, who regardless of assertions to the contrary, pays ALL taxes. It would not require an unconstitutional transformation of government, a 1000+ page "stimulus" bill, or a fight to the death over political ideologies. Of course, government would have to cut programs funded by these exhorbitant tax rates but that is simply something that Congress refuses to do regardless of the fact that it may be proved that a program no longer serves a useful purpose. Even the thought of revising an entitlement program is repugnant to just about all in Congress. Calling what we have a "budget" is a joke. Jeez, let me create a family budget like Congress does! Then I can live where I want, drive what I want, eat the finest foods, enjoy junkets to exotic places, and never worry about my retirement. After all, my kids, grandchildren, and great grandchildren will have to pay the bills. Talk about leaving a legacy!

We Are Not A Dictatorship, Yet!
Michael offers, "If you are rooting for Obama to fail you are indirectly rooting for the country to fail."

Wrong.

We are not a dictatorship. We have three branches of government, not one. The whole idea is to check poor behavior that may come out of one of the branches.

At this time, I think one branch is highly flawed and about to create a massive poverty class with his ideology of Socializing America through Central Command and Planning. I hope he fails.

America will not fail. We have two other branches to correct for his bad behavior. If we hold him off long enough, we may be able to get the Congress to do just that.

Killer
You said that Keynsian Economics gave us the middle class. That is incorrect. Under Keynsian theory, it would be formed via government spending.

Actually, the middle class came to be during WWII and the subsequent boom to business afterward. The industrial base of the world was destroyed by both sides during the war. The only industrial supplier that was left with an intact industrial base was the United States. World demand for products was met primarily by the United States, as we were the only source of many of these goods/services. As our industrial output rose, so did the middle class. It was private investments that allowed US companies to increase capacity, hire more people, and pay higher wages because DEMAND for those products was on a scale previously never before required.

It wasn't government that gave us those US jobs, it was the private sector building cars, planes, trucks, equipment, textiles, furniture, etc.

Keynsian Theory had nothing to do with our assent to Industrial domination that created the middle class, but private industry hiring our parents & grandparents.

Michael
"For the record, people who were against the war were not rooting for failure."

Is that so? From the very beginning, Bush's critics called him an "illegitimate president" and accused him of "stealing" the 2000 election. When the Patriot Act was passed, his critics compared him to Hitler.

"No one was rooting for our brave soldiers to come home in body bags."

Yes, they were. Remember Ward Churchill? Or what about Rosie O'Donnell, who said 9/11 was an "inside job"?

"Once we were there we wanted to win."

Then why did Democrats and other leftists continue to slam our troops and call them killers? Remember all the false accusations John Kerry made against our troops during the 2004 election?

"Also, people didn't really speak out against the war that forcefully until the war started to go badly."

So you only supported the war when it was popular? How cowardly can you get?

You seem to be counting on people having short memories. Nice try, but it didn't work.

"What if his policies turn out to be the best thing for the country right now?"

They won't, and that's the whole point.

"Wouldn't you rather be wrong and see the country prosper than be right and see the country continue to suffer?"

If Obama succeeds, America fails. I'd rather see America succeed.

Cicione
I cannot debate someone of your caliber. I "Hope" you do well. Watch out for the cars as you cross the street.

Leader of the party
Democrats are trying to stick Rush as the leader of the republican party...who is the leader (or should i say owner) of the democrat party? George Soros OWNS the Democrat Party...he owns Obama, Pelosi and Reid. Manchurian Canidates?

Will @ 1:42
"Cons: Your party is in freefall. Your leader is -- ? Who? Michael Steele? Limbaugh? Sarah Palin? Gingrich? Nobody knows. There are terrible schisms in the fabric of the GOP. The center is not holding. Half the party want a party of change (a new direction to fit the changing times), half the party wants ideas that seemed to work in the past."

And after the election defeats of '80, '84 and '92, who were the Democrats' leaders? You lose an election, you need new leadership; it takes time for the new leaders to emerge.

Ken
Couple things: 1) Saying Bush stole the election is not the same as rooting for him to fail; 2) You can always cherry pick a few people out of millions to make your point. Rosie O'Donnell is hardly representative of all liberals; 3) I don't agree with those who slandered our troops. That was wrong. But again, that is not the same as not wanting to win. Do you really think John Kerry wanted thousands of troops to die and us to lose the war? The people who were speaking out just didn't think we could win after spending several bad years in a war they didn't think was justified in the first place; 4) Actually, what I was saying about supporting the war is that even those who opposed it in the first place weren't vocal in the beginning because people on the right called them traitors, treasonous, etc. I will NEVER understand the rationale that if you were not in favor of the war then you were against the troops and against America; 5) You said "if Obama succeeds, America fails". Really? So if Obama implements his policies and our economy turns around and we are more prosperous than ever, you consider that a failure just because you don't agree with his policies? And don't say that you KNOW his policies won't succeed because you don't know that, any more than I know whether they will work. No one knows.

Gunner the issues please
Democrats focusing on the distractions. Yes it has been an effective statagey to distract from the fact that it was democrats who had their names on legislation that led to the S&L crisis. Democrats like Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Maxine Waters and Nancy Pelosi were all in Congress During the S&L Crisis. They voted on the legislation that was meant to keep it from happening again. Which do you believe it is, incompetence or deliberate manipulation?

It was Barney Frank and Chris Dodd who continued the loosening mortgage credit months prior to the banks collapsing. Charles Shumer named Indy Bank and caused a run on the bank.

Wake up because your group think is allowing the politicians to get away with a far bigger scam than Madoff created.

To A Liberal, Freedom Is Over-Rated
Michael asks, "So if Obama implements his policies and our economy turns around and we are more prosperous than ever, you consider that a failure ..?"

Absolutely!

Obama is seeking to remove freedoms from citizens and give it to the State via Socialized Central Planning of healthcare, tax Justice and Redistribution of Wealth. Confiscating from one person for no other reason than to give to another makes all parties poorer on every level.

Why work? Why strive? Rewards will come to those that sit and wait. Such policies have a long history of lowering the standard of living for all. Well, except for the Ruling Class that will have drained power from citizens and begin living large without risk.

Some may be willing to trade freedoms for wealth, healthcare and other such tangibles. To them, there is no down side to having the Government regulate thier behaviors and ration their care as long as there is something free in it.

Personally, I want freedom more than free goods. I want businesses working for my good will not the good will of the State. I want a doctor that measures his performance by my return visits, not by some production number measured by the State. I want Customer Satisfaction to be the coin of the realm, not production numbers as measured by the State.

Did you see the latest World Health Organizations findings about health care? They measured it on hundreds of points and not once measured Customer Satisfaction. Not once! Socialists like the WHO dismiss what the unwashed masses think -- after all, only authorities know best, right? Welcome to socialized healthcare.

Such nonsense killed our schools. Now, Obama wants to spread the damage. Good grief! No thank you!

Get real, killer
"I see that you are still dedicated to that 19th century school of thought."

To the contrary, the understanding of just how devaqstatingly bad for the economy government intervention is became obnvious in the 1920s. The issue has been extensively expanded upon with the understanding of the economic calculation problem.

"Tax cuts for the upper class could not sustain the economy."

No one ever argued that they would (though only a fool believes that any of the tax cuts put forth over the last few decades really were for the "upper class"). Nevertheless, tax cuts are stimulative inasmuch as they reduce the distortions of tax policy and, to a lesser extent, have historically constarined spending to a small degree.

"A trillion dollar economy requires a high degree of activity."

True, but volocity hasn't the slightest thing to do with it. And only the truly ignorant of economics (including Keynesians) did not see the coming crisis by 2005 (not 9/08) when the Fed funds rate was held so ridiculously low for so long or belives the (obvious) nonsense that "Keynesian economics gave America a middle class". The middle class LONG preceded (easily discredited) Keynesian economics and its irresponsible, inflationary prcepts, "sunny".

The ECONOMY WILL TURN
Wake up! The congress will pass a change in the way the banks show their loans. The loans will be valued so that they are no longer shown as losses.

Without bad loans on the books the banks will not have to have money tied up to cover the losses. Money will be released into the economy. Banks will look profitable. The politicians have already made the grab on the money. The only question is will they do it again, another stimulus, or take the money and run.

The politicians knew the this was coming. They spurred it with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and your going to credit them for saving the economy until the inflation that has to result in five to ten years kicks in and they do it to us again.


Democrats Wanted Bush To Fail
if i remember correctly, hillary suggested that polical dissent and criticism were patriotic actions.

Socialism, seriously?
No, this is not socialism. I'm guessing that most of you don't even know what socialism is. You've been sold a bill of goods by your radio talk show hosts that any equity in the American system is Socialism. OK, so let's explore this. You all realize, of course, that we have had a "socialistic" system for some time. For one, socialized fire protection. Yep, those commie fire fighters, who are paid by the government, will put out your house fires. Commie cops, paid by the government, will come to all of your domestic disturbances (I'm guess we're talking about quite a few with you all). Commie mail men deliver your mail. You get the point. Of course, Obama has never talked about single payer health care. That's a fiction you've made up. Ultimately, you have to ask yourselves when you're going to stop being tools of the rich folk who would never have anything to do with you, and hope you'll remain in permanent poverty and ignorance.

I want socialism to continue to fail.
Where has socialism ever led to a nation becoming the envy of the free world? It will never happen. Thus, I want socialism to continue to fail, so that it, like communism, will eventually be found on the ash heap of human history. Any idiot that promotes socialism is by design a failure already. So, I don't blame Rush for wanting Obama's socialism to fail. Besides, this is politics. Democrats and republicans have long wished for the other side to fail, in order for them to swoop in and take the power back. It's a two party system. This leads to resent and hopes of regaining power by wishing for the side in power to fail. Democrats did it to Bush. Republicans are doing it to Obama. What, he can't take a punch. (Glass jaw?).

Too bad that Neville Chamberlain didn't want Hitler to fail. Instead, he helped Adolph to succeed. What a piker.

oh fletch
you and the austrian school of economics have lost all credibility and belong in another century.

quick history fact-as usual you only know half of the what you think you did.

reagan raised taxes 3 times and ended up with the largest deficit in history until that time.

let me give you a link from one of his aides.

this is from national review


The only problem with this analysis is that it is historically inaccurate. Reagan may have resisted calls for tax increases, but he ultimately supported them. In 1982 alone, he signed into law not one but two major tax increases. The Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act (TEFRA) raised taxes by $37.5 billion per year and the Highway Revenue Act raised the gasoline tax by another $3.3 billion.

According to a recent Treasury Department study, TEFRA alone raised taxes by almost 1 percent of the gross domestic product, making it the largest peacetime tax increase in American history. An increase of similar magnitude today would raise more than $100 billion per year.

In 1983, Reagan signed legislation raising the Social Security tax rate. This is a tax increase that lives with us still, since it initiated automatic increases in the taxable wage base. As a consequence, those with moderately high earnings see their payroll taxes rise every single year.

In 1984, Reagan signed another big tax increase in the Deficit Reduction Act. This raised taxes by $18 billion per year or 0.4 percent of GDP. A similar-sized tax increase today would be about $44 billion.

The Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 raised taxes yet again. Even the Tax Reform Act of 1986, which was designed to be revenue-neutral, contained a net tax increase in its first 2 years. And the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987 raised taxes still more.




I've Seen Socialism First Hand.
It sucks! I went to get my SS card replaced, as I lost it a few years back. It was never a high priority to get a new card, but I thought I should have one anyway. I went on line to see what to do. There was a form on line to print out and fill out. It said that for "replacement" cards, you needed to have a valid picture ID, copied and ready to submit with your SS card form. I copied my DL and headed for the nearest SS office. When I got there, the place was full. You had to take a number. I was number 261 and they were on number 167. This was at Noon. I went during lunch hour to minimize the impact on my work. I asked the guy at the reception desk how long it would take to get through almost 100 numbers. He said about 4- 6 hours. The problem was they closed at 4:00 p.m. on weekdays. I said the heck with it. As I was walking out, I was in the elevator with another gentleman who also had given up. He had number 240 or something near that. I said to him: "Can you imagine the waiting lines when they take over the health care system?" He said, "Geez, I hadn't thought of that. That won't be a good thing". I said, "No it won't".

Socialism. In the words of Ebeneezer Scrooge, "BAH! Humbug!"

Trolls full of crap (Part 1)
Will writes: "Cons: Your party is in freefall. Your leader is -- ? Who?"

Conservatives don't have a party, nor a leader. We think for ourselves. I'm tempted to suggest you try it sometime instead of following your 'leader' like a sheep, but I don't think you're ready to take the training wheels off.

Lion Heart writes: "What Elder and cons posting here don't quite understand is that the disgust with Bush developed after several of his decisions did not turn out well while the end results of Obama's decisions are yet to unfold."

What Lion Heart doesn't understand is that Limbaugh wants the country to succeed no matter who is in the WH whereas the libs polled in 2006 wanted the country to fail so they could regain political power.

Cowalker writes: "When Bush was selected as president by the Supreme Court"

Bostguy has already succinctly explained that this statement, by itself, disqualifies the poster from being seriously considered.

Doc Liberty has already done an excellent job of laying Justin's "imperialism" remark to waste.

nmi writes: "If Bush wanted to succeed in Iraq ...[blah, blah, blah]..."

Hey, nmi, I've got news for you. Bush DID succeed in Iraq.

Lon writes: "The best [Elder] can do ... is that an entertainer ... recognized that the question of whether he wanted us to win in Iraq was dependent on what O'Reilly meant by win in Iraq."

No Lon. Elder makes it clear that 51% of Democrats said they wanted Bush to fail while the country was at war during a national campaign for midterm elections. In other words, Democrat hypocrisy.


Trolls full of crap (Part 2)
Jeffrey writes: "At least Democrats who rooted for Bush to fail gave him a significant amount of time in office before judging his policies and behavior."

What planet do you live on Jeffrey? The left began hating Bush the moment the SCOTUS put a stop to the recount. Hillary declared the Bush energy plan "Dead on Arrival" in the Senate before she ever read it. There are other examples, too numerous to detail.

stedes writes: "One should be able to disagree with President and his policies and be called patriotic. Its too bad conservatives cannot extend that courtesy to liberals."

Conservatives NEVER said it was unpatriotic for libs to disagree with Bush on policy. We said it unpatriotic for libs to work against the war effort in Iraq after that war was specifically authorized by a dominant majority vote in the Congress. Your argument is straw dog.

christianlib writes: " when someone publically says they want the president of the united states to fail, please explain how that is not also wanting the country to fail."

Limbaugh himself explained this at the time he made the comment. Elder recites Limbaugh's re-explanation in an interview with Sean Hannity. Why don't you explain what it takes to get this explanation through your head?


Trolls full of crap (Part 3)
Left Angle writes: "The Only Way for Repubs to Regain Power
is for Prez Obama and the Democratic led Congress IS TO FAIL in their mission..."

LA mistakenly presumes that it's all about regaining power, not what's good for the country. He makes this mistake because he presumes the GOP is just like the Democrats, who spent 8 years trying to make the country fail so they could regain political power.

Michael from CA writes: "But isn't that what some people on the right, including Rush Limbaugh, said about anyone who dared to disagree with Bush?"

No, as a matter of fact most of us on the right also disagreed with Bush, early and often. We said that libs hate America when they blamed America for all of the world's ills and blamed America first everytime anything bad happened (including 9/11). We said they hate America when they sided with the terrorists in Iraq. We said they hated America when Harry Reid declared the Iraq War "lost", and when they referred to General Petraeus as "Betray us". Perhaps you can cite a similar, offsetting example of a conservative slander against an American military hero, since you seen so anxious to equate liberal anti-Americanism with conservative opposition to the socialist policies of Obama.


I hope obama fails
This article is further proof the Democrats are hypocrites.

fletch
i did some research on the austrian school of economics since last time we debated.

here is an appropriate summation in my humble opinion.

The Austrian School of Economics is a tiny group of libertarians at war with mainstream economics. They reject even the scientific method that mainstream economists use, preferring to use instead a pre-scientific approach that shuns real-world data and is based purely on logical assumptions. But this is the very method that thousands of religions use when they argue their opposing beliefs, and the fact that the world has thousands of religions proves the fallibility of this approach. Academia has generally ignored the Austrian School, and the only reason it continues to exist is because it is financed by wealthy business donors on the far right. The movement does not exist on its own scholarly merits.

fletch
even more interesting is this summation

The influence that Austrian school ideas have had on Keynesian macroeconomics
Macroeconomics

Macroeconomics is the economics sub-field of study that considers aggregate behavior, and the study of the sum of individual economic decisions....
is often overlooked. Keynes himself acknowledged being exposed to the Misesian notion that “nominal” values could have “real” effects. A further source of this influence is the period of time when the London School of Economics
London School of Economics

The London School of Economics and Political Science, more commonly referred to as The London School of Economics or LSE, is a unique college of the University of London in London, England....
brought in Hayek and other “continental” economists. While their students, though initially receptive, ultimately were drawn to the new Keynesian doctrines, many of the Hayekian concepts, particularly those relating time to the value of capital and its importance, would find their way into the work of Keynesians, especially by way of John Hicks


Sir John Richard Hicks was one of the most important and influential economists of the twentieth century....
(who, while distancing himself from Keynesianism, nonetheless made the most influential attempt to formalize it).

Alas, christianlib
Searching for what you want to find and ignoring all else is NOT reserach - nor for that matter is typing verbatim from Wikipedia which is miserable source material in any case. David Stockman is NOT a reliable source and the FACTS are that a) the Austrian school is the third largest (and by no means small) school of economics which, together with the monetarist school are larger than the Keynesian school. It is the fastest growing school because Keynesianism is not only illogical but repeatedly fails the test of both empirical evidence and predictive ability (and, as a result, has fractured into new Keynesians, neo-Keynesians, post-Keynesians, etc. all as a direct result of those empirical failures).

If you were to say that Keynes or John Kenneth Galbraith or Joan Robinson or even Kaldor and Gordon, you might have an argument about influence ... Hicks doesn't even come close to making the list even if he has the distinction of working at the institution where Keynes first put forth his inflationary theories.

Put simply, despite your "research", it is abundantly clear you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about.

fletch
i never use wikipedia, at least give me credit.

i researched approx. 10 sources.

it is called "google" fletch and it opens a world to you.

sorry, but no matter how you try to justify and defend it, you actually are misinformed yourself.

it appears as if you have put your own ideological trappings on top of austrian school philosphy and passed it off as scholarly work.

i even waded through entire blogs specifically aimed at debating austrian school economics, you might do the same to get a sense of what you are talking about.

Double Talk
I find it funny that all are making a stink out of Rush Limbaugh's comments. Wanting the President to fail. Nothing was said when the same comments and worst were uttered about Bush. Perhaps the hoopla is over Race. A white man wanting a black man to fail. Folks get over yourselves. This is double talk!

fletch
here is the actual website
http://mises.org/etexts/austrian.asp


now try this one

http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/bcaplan/whyaust.ht m


and now i will give you one you should enjoy


http://mises.org/Community/blogs/donlloyd/archive/2009/02/2 0/the-world-s-hardest-austrian-economics-problem.aspx


bottom line fletch, as carlyle pointed out, economics is the "darkest science" and as we re-learn every few years, economists really don't have a clue.

Allen & Michael: CA

Allen: 4:32 PM EST
Is it realistic though to think that the democrat party will unload the leftists so long as the MSM portrays Pelosi, Frank as anything other than being far left?

Michael: CA - 4:52 PM EST
The difference here is that Rush is rooting for "failure" before it even starts. If you are rooting for Obama to fail you are indirectly rooting for the country to fail.

Response:

Rush wants AMERICA TO SURVIVE the “Obamanation.” therefore anyone who truly cares about the survival of Freedom of Speech, 1st and 2nd Amendment Liberty and Capitalism, wants Obama to fail before he and the Liberal Democrats bankrupt the country. Now of course, we are going to disagree on this but that is because you put Party before Principle.

If we can convince Rush not to support Liberals like “Unfit-Mitt” Romney, there is hope:

http://rushtellthetruth.blogspot.com/2008/08/open-letter-to -rush-limbaugh.html

As to Allen's question: I'm with you Allen! Prior to the 2006 election, there were only 22 “Blue-Dog” Democrats in the House. After that election there were 44 (including 6 who ran as “Pro-Life”). They replaced mostly Liberal Republicans and while they have NO real power yet, rumor has it that they are already giving Nancy Pelosi a hard time.

All I want is for Republicans to dump the two Maine Democrat Senators (cleverly disguised as Republicans) and then for my “Blue Dogs” to link up with Conservative Republicans (in both houses) and kick the Liberals to the curb!

Best Wishes,
Michael W.
“Reagan Democrat”


Truth Telling by Jeff Schrembs
Democrats, and I don't mean the Democrats of the 1950's, 60's, 70's, and 80's, the Democrats NOW are a new breed of partisan Anti-American Demi-Gods.
Truth, even in words like ILLEGAL ALIEN - MUSLIM TERRORIST - MUSLIM EXTREMIST, annoys them and then they "sic" George Soros (the admitted SOCIALIST who helped, YES helped, the Nazi's during WWII and made money doing so - REPULSIVE) and his BILLIONS of dollars on anyone...and everyone.
The "three legs of the stool", for the Democrats is NOT just Obama+Pelosi+Reid. It is also the ACLU, LaRaza, and the Liberal Court System. It is also Teachers Unions, School Boards, and even the School Book suppliers (all headed/funded/boarded by LIBERALS and Anti-Americans). Lastly, it is the Main Street TV Media+the print media+the technology empires (ever wonder WHY it is that ALL of the technology enterprises ALWAYS flow "lock step" with the Democrats) such as GOOGLE (diehard Obama/Democrat Lovers) and YAHOO (same) and APPLE (need we say more?) and many others.
They are so POWER HUNGRY that they have created BRAINWASHING ORGANIZATIONs that indoctorinate our children, from day 1, all the way into College. They say if you are White, Christian, Religious, Conservative, and/or Republican that you are; uncool, unworthy, racist, hater, and worse. They try to DESTROY anything/everything that exposes them for their EFFORTS and their INTENT.
The same "truth" that they seek to destroy compelled me to write this response. I just wish...more would follow.
Jeff Schrembs, American Citizen

Nixon Whitehouse redux!
Rush just happens to be high on Obamas' "enemies list" which is OK by the media
because he is a Democrat AND a minority.

Dishonesty ill suits your effort
A) The words in your earlier posts come VERBAITIM from Wikipedia and do not appear IN ANY FORM in any of the links you provided.

B) BLOG RESPONSES do not qualify as research any more than the unequivocal regurgitation of Wikipedia text.

C) Caplan is arguing in the efficacy of NEOCLASSICAL economics (not Keynesianism) and, as has been argued by countless economists with better pedigrees, not only fails to undermine the Austrian position but commits the same sin (overstatement) that he accuses Austrians of engaging in.

D) The pricing model problem you link to is a practical application problem and in absolutely no way undermines Austrian theory or bolsters Keynesianism.

E) you have failed utterly to provide so much as a single scholarly undermining (let alone refutation) of Austrian principles or even a shred that bolsters your own case. You're not going to win this one. I've been a practicing economist and student of economic history (which comes up with new refutations of Keynesianism with each passing day) for a quarter century.

Who do you think you're going to fool?

Democrats Not Only Wanted Bush To Fail,
But acted on it, vocalized it, and as the poll in the article stated, voted for it as a group. The Times constantly slammed President Bush and wrote stories to undermine the war effort in an effort to make him fail. They told of our national security secret prisons for terrorists, gave away information. It's appalling what they did. Liberals hoped President George W. Bush would fail for eight years. And were most vile in their effort. They've got no leg to stand on.
Of course we want a socialist to fail as it is the anti-thesis of America. I'm sure all good Americans want the Obamination to fail. But not America. Not only that but I want Pelosi and Reid to fail in their efforts to socialize America as well.

F1etch
Have you read this article about taxes?
Please give me your appraisal of this piece:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/bg1765.cfm

Friday the 13th
Bad things will befall you if a black cat crosses your path.

Wait a minute... there's one in the White House!

Sources
Yes, sol, I read that back when it came out and its a good read.

Here's one that I strongly recommend:

http://www.mises.org/story/2869

Not only does it help expose the multiplier myth that is central to Keynesian economics - famously a Keynesian economist determined the multiplier levels of various policy alternatives and determined that tax cuts had the lowest multiplier but blatantly fell into the "broken window fallacy" ignoring the much higher negative impact of taking the resources from the productive economy to fund the "stimulus" - but it mentions the great book by Hazlitt that is as devastating to the keynesian position as when it was first written.

BTW, if anyone is interested where the posts of christianlib (who doesn't rely on Wikipedia) can be found word-for-word, simply look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_School_of_Economics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hicks

As Expected
Democrats in Congress wanted Bush to fail even Chuck dirtbag Schumer said the war was a numbers issue benefiting Democrats. Let's not forget Murtha, Kennedy, Schumer, Pelosi, Reid you get the point. Also, you know Republicans are doing well when Democrats keep trying to figure out who's our leader etc. I compare the Republicans to the Justice League, a bunch of superheroes with strenghts and weaknesses and different personalities united to defeat a common foe. They might not like each other, they might fight with each other, but at the end they come together to defeat a common enemy. I wouldn't be worried as right now we don't need a leader. Remember out of turmoil and caos great ideas come about. I am very proud of my party and know the Democrats are very scared.

F1etch
Thanks for the read. good stuff.
Reminded me of something I read a few years ago,that is,one of the factors that contributed to the economic bubble of 1929.
If I remember correctly.
Loose money supply allowed manufacturers to borrow more money to produce more products than were needed by consumers. Tariffs hindered the distribution of goods abroad. Manufacturers simply borrowed more money, purchased warehouses to store the surplus, and kept cranking out the products.

Does that story ring a bell?

BTW...

While we are on the subject of the “Radically Wrong” how about the following links:

http://vodpod.com/watch/1038839-dems-refuse-to-reform-fredd ie-fannie-in-2004-video

http://barackswhitelies.blogspot.com/2008/10/oreilly-gets-f rank.html

http://www.mediacircus.com/2008/09/government-engineered-mo rtgage-crisis-no-racism-here-move-along/


Near the end of this video, Bill Clinton admits Democrats are to blame for the Bank Crisis.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/09/memory_lane_lyn ching_franklin.html



The banking crisis was deliberately planned as a campaign strategy.

http://mcauleysworld.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/john-mccains- 2006-warning-about-todays-financial-crisis/

NO use for NEO-CONS!

NEConservative Location: ME
Date: Mar 13, 2009 - 6:29 AM EST

“Liberals hoped President George W. Bush would fail for eight years. And were most vile in their effort. They've got no leg to stand on...”

Response:

AND what exactly did you Neo-Cons do to support President Bush? We TRUE Conservatives and the rest of America, must now suffer this “Obamanation” because you RINO's and Neo-Cons backed N.E. Liberal Republicans (like Rudy and “Unfit-Mitt”), so with all do respect: PUT A SOCK IN IT!

Coming from Maine, you probably voted for our two Democratic Senators (cleverly disguised as Republicans). If you did...then YOU are the one who doesn't have a leg to stand on.


fletch
the quote did not come from wikipedia, so like most of your assumptions you are wrong again, the link is below.

so now you are an economist, you had a different story about a month ago.

Some of the Rockwell's attacks on liberal constituencies are equally mindless:
"Civil rights legislation is the worst regulatory intervention in labor markets." (3)
The worst? Affirmative action doesn't even exist in the private sector -- only in the public sector, or for public contractors. It is curious that Rockwell would single out a racial issue as the prime example of government meddling in the labor market, especially since private labor markets are infinitely more affected by the minimum wage, overtime pay, worker's compensation or OSHA safety regulations. But perhaps Rockwell isn't even referring to affirmative action when he mentions "civil rights legislation" -- perhaps he is alluding to the Civil Rights Act and other legislation that ended Jim Crow laws.


http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-ausmain.htm

MichealWME
Are you actually trying to equate the effect Rush Limbaugh can have on our society to that of Pelosi or Barney Frank?

The difficulty as I see it is that those who lean left do not see the democrat actions during the Bush administration highly disengenuous at best. Every time the vote came up on Iraq the democrats railed against it but voted against there moral and intellectual stand.

Why are our troops still in Iraq? If it was as wrong as the democrats claimed what are we protecting by still being there? The dems claimed that the violence was not worth an American life because it was a civil war.

Charles Schumer and Steny Hoyer now in the democrat leadership were co-sponcors of a bill that led to the Savings and loan crisis. The democrats in the leadership sat in all the committees that was to solve the S&L crisis and avoid a banking failure.

Limbaugh worries you more than Pelosi, Schumer, Reid, Dodd and Frank?

It's a distraction. Like Carvelle saying "It's only about sex. We need to grow up" Yes James sexual harrassement (which democrats pushed to be a crime in the work place) IS ABOUT SEX.

Bush is a failure
I didn't wish for Bush to fail I predicted that Bush's economic policies would fail. Before that moron even took office I predicted that he would blow the surplus and put our country in a deep recession.

On the other hand you republican morons predicted that the 1993 tax increases on the rich would created a recession but the opposite happened you clueless morons!

Bush's Conservative Iraq War Critics
WISEONE (MI) wrote at 10:19 pm on Mar 12: "Bush DID succeed in Iraq." The following conservative critics would appear to believe otherwise:

Town Hall columnist Cliff May in March 2008 wrote that "One can say the invasion of Iraq was unwise: Before committing troops to battle, a president should have a realistic understanding of what can be achieved, in what time frame, and at what cost. One can say the occupation of Iraq was bungled."

More importantly, May wrote "The result of so many errors and misjudgments was catastrophic."

The late Town Hall columnist and Conservative leader William F. Buckley, Jr., was even more critical; as long as three years ago Buckley called the Iraq War "Pres. Bush's failure."

Sen. John McCain repeatedly called the war "terribly mismanaged" by Donald Rumsfeld, whom Pres. Bush stood by for four years, even as casualties mounted by the hour.

Mitt Romney has stated that after initial success the Iraq War was "misrmanaged. underprepared. underplanned and understaffed."

Town Hall colummnist Dinesh D'Souza criticized Pres. Bush for surrounding himself with "cronies and sycophants."

Town Hall columnist Kathryn Jean Lopez quoted Veterans for Freedom head Pete Hegseth who could not understand why Pres. Bush had not surrounded himself with "the best and the brighest" in fighting this "very important war."

Probably the most damaging criticism came from Town Hall columnist and National Review editor Rich Lowry who wrote the following in his Oct. 8, 2007 column:

"The U.S. government has never brought to bear its resources in a truly national effort to win (the Iraq War)." Considering the Iraq War was touted by Pres. Bush repeatedly as being so important to our national security and survival, Lowry's words imply either gross negligence or worse.

If the didn't want Bush to fail....
Then why DID Dingy Harry Reid go on the air and on the floor of the Senate less than 24 hours into the Surge and declare it a failure and the war "lost" already? There hadn't been a single report from the field. He had his speech written a week before the Surge started and just couldn't hold his wad any longer.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

childish loyal opposition response
"But look at Bush" "Bush was worse" "Bush made mistakes too"

nmi - What are you talking to us for? Why aren't you demanding the democrats get the troops out now! How is it now a responsible thing to keep them there when the democrats had been saying what an evil it was?

Self-defense
"the quote did not come from wikipedia, so like most of your assumptions you are wrong again, the link is below."

So, in other words, you chose to belive an OBVIOUSLY fly-by-night non-professional website that pulled most of its vergabe verbatim from Wikipedia and then attempted to present such drivel as if it were credible instead of tripe obvious to a kindergartner with ADD. I apologize for the initial mischaracterization.

"so now you are an economist, you had a different story about a month ago."

That is a bald-faced lie. My economic credentials have been a matter of public record in years of posts (including to you) and on my own blog postings. I have NEVER at any time EVER painted any other picture.

"Some of the Rockwell's attacks on liberal constituencies are equally mindless..."

My opinion of Rockwell's points are not at issue. They are not all encompassing of the Austrian scholl, are irrelevant to any of the sound Austrian points I have made and do not make your source material any less obviously useless.

This latest attack on your part is nothing less than pathetic.

Let's blame Bush
The opposition did everything to demonize Bush from the beginning of his presidency. They're backlash from the election of 2000 spurred them on as if they had a grudge to settle. They are very small people, with smaller brains, but huge ambitions. As an Iraqi veteran, I applaud the Bush administration. I saw good things happen over there, something that the mainstream media seemed to ignore. Ooh rah!

Elder
Well, if we wanted Bush to fail, I would have to
say we won.

So why doesn't it feel like winning? Because
we are in the worst period of my long life.
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