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Thursday, January 15, 2009
Larry Elder :: Townhall.com Columnist
Does Iraq Make Bush a "Failed President"?
by Larry Elder
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In his final press conference, President George W. Bush called failing to find WMD in Iraq a "disappointment."

For many historians -- not allowing a little history to pass before rendering judgment -- this makes him a "failed president." In a 2006 survey of 744 history professors, 82 percent rated President Bush either below average or a failure. Last April, in an informal poll of 109 historians by George Mason University, 98 percent considered him a failed president, and 61 percent judged him one of the worst in American history.

His "crime"? For most of these historians, Bush led the country into an "unnecessary war."

Return to the bad old days immediately following Sept. 11, 2001, when terror attacks killed 3,000 on American soil. Eighty to 90 percent of Americans expected another attack -- on American soil -- within six months to a year. Critics called Bush asleep at the wheel, that he failed to "connect the dots." Never mind that the 9/11 Commission said that former President Bill Clinton blew several opportunities to kill or capture Osama bin Laden.

Let us recall Saddam Hussein, the "Butcher of Baghdad."

Under President Clinton, Congress voted for -- and he signed -- the Iraq Liberation Act, calling for "regime change." Saddam Hussein stood in defiance of several United Nations resolutions calling for him to fully account for his weapons of mass destruction. He certainly possessed WMD, having used them against his enemies and his own people. He continually fired at the American and British planes patrolling the southern and northern "no-fly zones" set up to prevent genocide against fellow Iraqis. In addition to stealing billions from the "oil-for-food" program (to what end?), he sent $25,000 apiece to families of homicide bombers who attacked Israelis. Following Saddam's 1990 invasion of Kuwait and the U.S.-led coalition's subsequent expulsion of him, we found Saddam much closer to developing a nuclear weapon than our intelligence community assumed. He later attempted to assassinate former President George H.W. Bush. Estimates vary, but Saddam killed, during his 25-year reign, between 300,000 and 1 million Iraqis.

In the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate, all 16 U.S. intelligence departments concluded -- with the highest possible level of certainty -- that Saddam still possessed stockpiles of chemical and biological WMD. British intel reached the same conclusion. According to former CENTCOM commander Gen. Tommy Franks, officials in Egypt and Jordan told him that they believed the dictator still possessed WMD.

Bush retained the same CIA director, George Tenet, who served under Clinton. Tenet described the case for assuming the dictator possessed WMD a "slam-dunk." After the invasion of Iraq, Clinton publicly said he thought Saddam still had the weapons. A few months after the Iraq invasion, the former president visited Portuguese Prime Minister Jose Manuel Durao Barroso, who later said, "When Clinton was here recently, he told me he was absolutely convinced, given his years in the White House and the access to privileged information which he had, that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction until the end of the Saddam regime."

True, "weapons hunter" David Kay, sent to Iraq to find the stockpiles, found no WMD. But Kay said that Saddam retained the capacity and the intent to restart his program.

Now let's play suppose.

Bush ignores the nearly unanimous intelligence community. He takes no action against Saddam. The dictator remains in power. The sanctions end. He restarts his WMD program. We experience another 9/11 or worse on American soil. Our intel traces the attack back to Saddam. Congress demands investigations for Bush's "failure to heed the clear consensus of the intelligence community and to take appropriate action." Democrats and many Republicans push for impeachment, based on negligence and malfeasance.

Angry members of Congress quote the February 1998 words of the secretary of State under Clinton, Madeleine Albright: "Iraq is a long way from (here), but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."

What if we had known before we got there that he possessed no stockpiles of WMD? Would we have invaded? A better question is as follows: Given what the President reasonably thought and the consequences of doing nothing, did he do the right thing?

Osama bin Laden called Iraq the "central front in the war" against the infidels. Gen. Franks said: "The global war on terrorism will be a long fight. But make no mistake about it. We are going to fight the terrorists. The question is: Do we fight them over there, or do we fight them here?"

Support for homicide bombing has fallen dramatically from 2002 to 2007 in seven of eight Muslim countries surveyed -- as much as 74 to 34 percent in Lebanon, and 33 to 9 percent in Pakistan. And support for the extreme "Islamist" parties in Muslim countries, with some exceptions, has also declined. Iraq -- alone among Muslim Middle Eastern countries -- now has a fledgling democracy.

One more thing. We haven't been attacked on American soil since 9/11.

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About The Author
Larry Elder is a syndicated radio talk show host and best-selling author. His latest book, "What's Race Got to Do with It?" is available now.
 
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©Creators Syndicate
Couldn't agree more
Yes, Bush did do some things that I have disagreed with, but he is far from the worse President ever. Jimmy Carter deserves that honor.

I understand why Bush attacked Iraq and if I were President at the time I probably would have done the same thing.

As to the earlier poster who blames Bush for the Wall Street meltdown, this is nonsense. Clinton is the one who signed into law the huge financial system deregulation bill. Joe Biden and other Democrats voted for the deregulation. This move was supported by many key Clinton appointees. Don't get me started on Fannie and Freddie, who were heavily backed by Democrats and were responsible for many of the problems in the financial system.

I wonder
If it is ever necessary to have a Republican President again?

Afterall, everything that happens on their watch seems to be the responsibility of the Democrats anyway. Why not just make those responsible, accountable and have a permanent Democratic Presidency?

By any measurement Bush was a success

You just have to be educated to understand why.

Media Cover and Obfuscation
The media provides cover for the democrats and clouds reality to mislead the citizenry. Most of the fat-cats on Wall Street are actually democrats, and Carter,Clinton and the democrats were the driving force behind the current financial crisis. Also,you should know that the democrats controlled the House of Representative for 40 years between 1955 and 1995.

When it comes to the war in Iraq, I want everyone to consider that the children may now have a future instead of being cannon fodder for radical Islam! While many of our young people have paid the ultimate earthly price to plant the seeds of Freedom in the lands of tyrants and despots, I believe they will grow and the world will be the better for it. This is something that people like Reid and Pelosi in their shallowness will never understand. Evil cannot go unchallenged!

In a word Larry...
Y-E-S.

Revisionist Disinformation

This is a typically dishonest Townhall article. The author selectively deletes and distorts crucial information. For example, the problem for Bush was not that he "led us into an unnecessary war", but that he lied us into an illegal and disastrous war. (There was also that little torture problem, but I guess it doesn't matter to this author).

Saddam destroyed his WMD back in the 1990s and many in the intelligence community knew this but backed down under political pressure. The "NIE" was a one page summary document which as distributed lacked the many caveats included in the total document.

In contrast to the silly comment above, the media were complicit in all of Bush's war crimes. For example, they refused to cover the "Downing Street Memo", which was a virtual smoking gun about how the "intelligence was being fixed to fit the policy". There are many more examples.

Republicans tend to puff themselves up as being the party of personal responsibility. Well why don't you take responsibility for the fact that your president, and party, and members led the country into a dishonest, illegal and disastrous war (not to mention Afghanistan)?

William
Your wrong! How about FDR (Japan lands troops in Alaska) or how about Woodrow Wilson (Poncho Villa attacks Columbus, NM), hell even Abraham Lincoln since the CSA was not the USA. Get your facts straight!

Oh I forgot............
.....German saboteur bombings in NY during WW2, also FDR.

Oh I forgot...............
.......German saboteur bombings in NY (also FDR WW2)

sorry for...........
........the double post, didn't think the first one took.

And since our.............
embassies are considered US soil, Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, and Clinton!

William
Since when is a US territory not US soil? Poncho may crack you up William but an attack on US soil is still an attack on US soil. Sorry if the FACTS get in the way of your BDS, but when YOUR wrong Your wrong.

William
It's good to know someone crossing the boarder and killing Americans "cracks you up".

adamh97

Well Said.

No - YOU crack...
me up.

William
One more, get ready it's a biggie, PEARL HARBOR! Remember Pearl Harbor William?

Oh yeah - Pearl Harbor!
Now go back and read the subject line of post #8 and go back to sleep. Its late on the East Coast.

See how it works?
I get to count only "states" like Larry Elder. You get to count all "U.S. soil".

If you don't like it, contact Elder, Larry @ Town Hall.com.

It's his idea.

No William.................
.........go back and read your "only two president's" comments!

Anyway your............
.........right, it's late. Im outta here. Take care.

Col. Billy Mitchell:Of course Pres. Bush

was a success, but these intellectually limited children will never bother to educate themselves.

And yes, saddam's WMDs were flown and trucked to Syria while the UN was voting and playing games before we liberated Iraq from the Butcher of Baghdad.

It's been confirmed by several of saddam's "people" and confirmed by the CIA.

Why won't Pres. Bush discuss it? Who knows, but probably for the same TYPE of reason he or the State Dept. never mentioned that almost a year ago "Bush Rejected Israeli Plea To Raid Iran."

And then there's that pesky little problem with keeping us safe. Pres. Bush and the CIA STOPPED NINETEEN (19) attempted terrorist attacks on the US since 9-11.

Of course, I can hardly wait to see how Bozo Obama is "rated" when he and Panetta dismantle the CIA and we're attacked again. That should be interesting.

Good night and good luck
to my Peaceful friend in PA. I must go now but I'll check back tomorrow for any witty repartee you're about to launch my way.

(and I think my post #8 is better labeled 3:20am EST since posts seem to change)

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I'll miss Bush
I think President Bush was better than he has been given credit for (though in time he will get the credit he is due), and I will miss him. But not as much as I miss YOU Larry. Come back to radio!!!

William
Dude - remember the WTC in 1993? The bombs that killed six people? The attack masterminded by some of the same people who later succeeded in collapsing the towers?

Who was president then when the soil of the continental US was assaulted?

Oh yeah. William. Jefferson. Clinton. The same guy who spent eight years treating the threat as a criminal matter.

How did that work out?

texaschuck
You said:

"The President makes the final decision to go to war and he lied and failed. May he rot in hell!!"

I demand you and other like you spell out exactly what lie Bush told! None of you have the slightest idea how intelligence works or how staff's work. Bush could not ignore the intelligence picture he had PERIOD it was the best information available at the time. Congress had access to the exact same intelligence information as Bush used. Congress VOTED to give the president authority to use force - thus obviating their OBLIGATION under the Constitution - Congress and Congress ALONE is the ONLY constitutional authority that can declare war period end of story!. The fact that the intelligence ultimately was shown to be wrong in NO WAY makes Bush a liar any more than it makes the members of congress all liars. I am sick and tired of hearing the President lied -- that in itself is a lie. Those who perpetuate this lie are either deceived or dishonest at their very core. No president in power during a war has "the blood" of those fallen in battle on their hands. These heroes lives were taken by the ENEMY and don't you EVER ignore that fact. The enemy is real and out to destroy or nation and our way of life - whether or not YOU like Bush or hate him, he was the President who took the action he judged necessary to protect America - the job for which he was elected! You do NOT have to like or agree with his decisions but as a real American you are obligated to respect his office. Stop the cowardly lies. Apologize for stating your desire that he "rot in hell"

nuff said
550 metric tons of yellow cake uranium shipped from Iraq to Canada (08).

Worst President?
He'd probably be at #4. #1 - Franklin Delano Roosevelt for bringing in the idea that Government is a good idea. #2 - Herbert Hoover for laying the foundation for what FDR did. #3 - Abraham Lincoln for making the Federal level an important level instead of that figurehead used to deal with foreigners.

Bush is #4 because he is Herbert Hoover Part 2 and could move into #2 if Obama does what FDR did on the back of Hoover. Bailouts, The Patriot Act, Prescription Drug plan through Medicare and vast expansions of Federal spending and power make him a horrible president. Iraq was a mess under Saddam. America made it that way and it is up to us to fix our mistake. At least Bush did something right.

failure
It's the bailouts and the failure to confront Iran that make Bush a failed president. And his support for amnesty for illegal aliens.

Bush has plunged America into deep socialism. The bailout and its timing guaranteed the electon of Obama. The causes of the bailout include Bush's push for bad loans to illegal aliens.

American immigration policies, both legal and illegal, have contributed to a vast influx of unskilled, uneducated people who are not assimilating into American culture and are predisposed toward income redistribution and socialism, and they WILL vote. Some already do so illegally. Thus furthering the descent into socialism and further redistribution of income and opportunities (through things like race and gender preferences).

Meanwhile, we've fought the wrong war, and Iran will soon have nukes.

What am I missing? What could be more of a failure.

One Mistake
One mistake would not make someone a failure. What makes someone a failure is when they screw up everything.

Bush & War
Good article Mr. Elder.

I agree that the President acted on the best information that he had available to him at the time. It doesn't matter if he was predisposed to an invasion of Iraq as the Dems/Libs presume. What does matter is that he acted appropriately based on the intel available to him at the time.

The Libs don't care about that. They hated Bush from the outset because of the circumstances under which he was elected. The Iraq War was a great opportunity for them bash Bush. Remember,
"Bush Lied, People Died", "No War For Oil", and of course all the fuss made about the Mission Accomplished sign that some underling, who probably rues having the idea, draped across the bridge an aircraft carrier.

These same people pounded the President for having shown up in a flight suit. Hey, he had been a USAFR pilot and was CIC, why shouldn't he be allowed to have some fun!? The Dems couldn't stand Bush having a moment in the sun, so to speak. Just the sight of him in the spotlight, instead of the bloviating, self serving global warming fraud, Al Gore, incenses them.

The Dems/Libs are only interested in the Truth as it benefits their socio-political agenda.

Bush is no failure
With the intel received by the President at the time he had no choice, Obama would have to do the same. can imagin Saddam and his people still in power now? With all thats going on, Russia would help him get Nucks like they help Iran, Bush should gave Isreal the bombs needed to destroy some of Irans nuclear plant. Obama is going to bring our military down, you has already started with the gay information lift. And stop worrying about what the rest of the world thinks just do whats right America, hold Isreal close because they are our real ally not Europe.

Dr. Douglas' 2:03
Pretty much agree.

Not only did media not give any coverage to how the Bush administration deleted key dissents from the original National Intel Estimate "justifying" the war...dissents which called into question Bush's rationale for the war...but media also gave little coverage to the Manning Memo, where Bush suggested painting an American aircraft with United Nations colorations and emblems, dupe Saddam into firing upon it, and thereby give "justification" for the U.S. to attack Iraq.

The fact Bush would even make such a suggestion belies his ad nauseum contention that Saddam possessed huge stockpiles of WMD.

It suggests Bush knew Saddam had no wmd, and was grasping at another pretext to justify the attack.

The "White Paper" was the administration's interpretation of the entire NIE report.

In the White paper, the administration either deleted findings which cast doubt on its rationale for the war, or hyped other findings to portray an incorrect assessment.

It was this White Paper the administration released to the media and public.

Too Many Mistakes
Frankly the Bush Administration made too many mistakes. We can argue the point of whether given the information that he had he made the best choice going into Iraq. But that does not forgive the terrible management of the Reconstruction, the waste, the incompetence, the failure to listen to the experts.

Then there were the lies about the war, not on WMD's but on the progress. Reports of Iraqie troop levels that were total fabrications. Constantly blaming the media for not reporting all of the good news when the media had it right and the administration had it wrong.

The same pattern played itself out domestically. Rigid ideological thinking in the face of contrary evidence led to bad policy decisions. Replacing experts with lightweight idelogues at important government agencies from FEMA to the Justice Department caused problem after problem.

The next congress could spend all of its time investigating unethical and malfeasent behavior of Bush Appointees, but it won't. The country is ready to move on and on January 20th the country will experience a collective sigh of relief as we once again will have an intelligent and competent leader at the helm.

How about the Yellowcake
Subject: How about the Yellowcake
Iraq had hundreds of tons of yellowcake; an isotope of Uranium that can be converted into a dirty atomic bomb. The last 550 tons of yellowcake was shipped to Canada in May-June 2008.

In my opinion a suicide bomber is a "WMD" because they have afflicted death and destruction on a mass scale. Saddam Hussein was promoting "the concept of suicide bombing" by paying $25000 to families of suicide bombers. In Iraq and some other areas $25000 is a lot of money.

Bush was denigrated by the DSM (Down Stream Media full of sludge & sewage); by the eastern Elitists (who were probably good friends with Madoof); by the Hollywood cast of subterranean characters and a Congress ready not only to sell itself but the soul of America.

Take away the effect caused by these anti-American elements and you will find that Bush did better than Carter &/or Clinton. As you said the economic collapse was not entirely Bush's fault.

Re: Iraq???
No, it does not make Presid. Bush a failed presid. it shows that the man did what he had to to send a message to the other Islamic Facists that America is not to be messed with, those who feel he is have really been drinking the Kool-ade!!! We have not been attack since 9/11 and that is because of the actions that this man took so he should be lauded not persecuted. THANK YOU MR. BUSH FOR PROTECTING US FROM SOMEONE WHO COULD IF NOT CHECKED USE A BIO WEAPON THAT COULD EAT THE SKIN OF PEOPLE'S BONES IF IT WERE USED!!! That is what this man should be thanked for!!!!

JMO51
"The next congress could spend all of its time investigating unethical and malfeasent behavior of Bush Appointees, but it won't. The country is ready to move on and on January 20th the country will experience a collective sigh of relief as we once again will have an intelligent and competent leader at the helm".

Agreed.

Who are these Historians?
Historians??????????????How do they rate other War time President's? Particularly Truman? And, what was the result of the action taken by Truman? For starters.

Thank you Larry Elder
for reminding us of how great President Bush has been. He followed what he beleived to be the correct path based on the information that was available at the time.

If I remember correctly most of Congress agreed with him but then as things got tough they almost all backed off. We have been lucky to have been led by a man who did not waver.

Thank you President Bush.

Seems like there's more Republicans than
Americans on this thread.

Loyalty should be to the constitution, liberty, and country instead of a political party, you morons.

THE NEOCON LEGACY...
...and a BIG thanks to all the idiotic, spineless, principle-less, ignorant, phony-patriot, Israel-firster, un-American cowardly Republican dogs (masqeurading as limited-govt conservatives) who rolled over for the worst Republican President and Congress in history.

President: Barrack Obama-D
President of the Senate: Joe Biden-D
The 111th Congress opened Tuesday with the DEMOCRAT Party in firm control of both houses. NANCY PELOSI was reelected Speaker of the House of Representatives. The DEMOCRATS hold 256 House seats to 178 for the Republicans, with one seat vacated by Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, who will be White House chief of staff in the Obama administration. The open seat in northwest Chicago will undoubtedly be filled by a DEMOCRAT in a special election, giving the Democrats a total of 257 seats.
In the Senate DEMOCRATS have a 55 to 41 majority, with two independents who vote with the DEMOCRATS, and two vacancies, both likely to be filled by DEMOCRATS. That would give the DEMOCRATS an effective 59-41 majority.


Want to know who is to blame for this fiasco, limp-wristed Republican sheeple of America? Take a long, cold, hard look in the mirror you cowards.

Ron Paul Kiss A$$
I agree that the Republican party is no longer conservative and Ron Paul is. That said, generally speaking, Ron Paul is completely wrong on the war. This is an honorable undertaking. Given that, I don't give him any creedance for intelligence.

Thanks for calling the Republicans moron's. Moron's, by definition, can take care of themselves. You sir are acting the idiot. Look up the definition.

WMD in Iraq
Because the press has failed to let the American people see played again and again the Democratic leaders who were so positive that the intelligence was correct about Iraq and weapons, now that we are in an unpopular war, they are ignoring these pertinent facts and those cowardly Dems who were so positive then, now are blaming George Bush as if they had no hand in voting and promoting the war in the beginning. So, politics and cowdardice is the mantra for today.This is not MY America!

adamh97
You have a short memory. Perhaps Carter is the worst in your lifetime, but Grant and Buchanan were worse than Carter. On many lists Carter comes in as 11th.

James Buchanan has to be the worst. Did little to stop bleeding Kansas and while a lame duck and not much of an army could have at least done something to try to stop the south from leaving. Outside of refusing to evacuate Sumter and sending the Star of the West to try to resupply it, he did little.

Followed by Grant who was a medicore general and a terrible president who was not very bright and had his administration filled with graft and corruption.

At #3, Hoover. Did little and what he did do made a deep recession into a depression.

At #4, Andrew Johnson--basically let the radical Republicans stage a coup--being unable to even change his own cabinet officers and allowed them to ram through dubious amendments to the COnstitution like the 14th--an amendment so badly written, the US is being hamstrung by it to this very day.

at #5, LBJ (on few lists since most like his socialist policies). Ran up the debt not seen since FDR or again until Bush. Ramped up a war he had no clue how to win and too afraid to attack northern assets that could have helped in the war effort. His social programs were mostly failures and did little to reduce poverty.


6-10
at #6, Harding, Teapot Dome, signed the racist 1924 National Origins Act (something which was backed by the KKK--some of which were sitting in the US Senate and House of Represenatives who passed this)

at #7, Jimmy Carter. So much--double digit unemployment, interest rates and nearly double digit inflation. Gas shortages caused in part by his stupid price controls. Iran, Afghanistan, selling Taiwan down the river. So much more.

at #8, Nixon. Destroyed the constitution, undermined the fairness of the 1972 election, and was basically a liberal--established both Affirmative Action and the EPA as well as signing the First Communique with China.

at #9, Ford. Price controls. Could have still done something to stop the invasion by NVN in 1975 even with the cutoff of military and economic aid to the RVN by the US Congress.

at #10, George W. Bush--see above.


Col. Billy
"By any measurement Bush was a success

You just have to be educated to understand why."

If you mean by success he was able to run the economy into the ground, a socialist take over of many aspects of American life even the most left among us could only dream about, launch a war he had no clue how to win, sink the GOP which may take decades to recover from, and destroy the US Constitution. Then yes, he has been a spectacular success. But somehow I don't think this is what you meant and if you mean he has had a successful presidency say along the lines of Reagan or Clinton, only if you are blind and stupid would you agree.

Akagi
Just what is it that Ford chould have done to stop the invasion?

Disregarding--
Once again, disregarding

The neoCON war of choice
... on wrong bad guys

I voted 2x for W, but I am sick about it (though Windsurfer and public traitor Kerry was NOT an alternative). The war in Iraq was a profligate war of choice against the wrong Arabs; Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11, WMD's were irrelevant to the U.S. anyway, and Saddam and Osama were opponents.

We will have spent $3 TRILLION all-in, with thousands killed and maimed-- all because the neoCONS then manipulating the Bush W.H. (Perle, Wolfy, Feith, Libby, and Wurmser... and their fellow pan-Israeli allies braying incessantly in the media--> Krauthammer, May, Kristol, Kagan, Prager, Gaffney, Barone, Medved, Prelutsky) wanted permanent American bases in Iraq for Israel's protection-- the dirty little secret.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_c ontributors/article3419840.ece
http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/spheresInfluence.h tml

Meanwhile, near-clueless Presidente Jorge believed in open borders, so he failed to uphold his most fundamental oath-- to defend and protect our border. Like Amnesty John McCain, he had made a Faustian deal years ago for employer lobby $ and Hispanic votes, but both quislings failed to get the latter, even as they sold out America to the indigent, ignorant ILLEGAL alien invasion... which will likely leave a legacy of an America morphing into a third world welfare state as ILLEGALS are enfranchised and vote it in.

Finally, RINO Jorge spent $ and grew govt. like a born-again 'Crat in order to buy loyalty for funding his misbegotten war-- swell job there, Jorge Bush!

Ron Paul
Well as you know there is no mention of parties in the Constitution and Washington warned against them in his farewell address.

And as you can see he was right to be worried as many here who slavishly follow the Bush party line. Bush was great, Bush was a success, Bush will be the new Truman. God what fools.


People Hate The Truth
As witnessed in several above messages people are driven by their hatred. So driven that they don't like to listen or read facts. They try to avoid the issue at hand by drawing attention to something else. I was thankful that I watched all of the preceedings running up to the invasion of Iraq and even told my husband, "Watch, people will forget all about what got us to this point and blame Bush." That is exactly what happened. As we have already seen in text books history is written by biased people who discount facts or alter facts to try and indoctrinate our children to their way of thinking. The great thing is Bush knows what the facts were. Bush knows that he did the best to protect our country from being attacked again and succeeded. Like he said, he can rest his head on his pillow at night. I doubt very many of the people who wrote above can say that. I thank God that during our time of need we had George Bush.

Peacefrog
The US still had air assets in Thailand and Taiwan as well as naval and other air assets in Japan and in the Philippines and further out in Guam. He was still CIC was he not, he could have ordered air strikes agaisnt the NVN columns heading south--and in my view required to do so under the promises it had made to the RVN at the Paris Peace Accords. The US promised President Thieu that the US would use airpower in case of a violation of the accords, but then failed to do what it had promised.

When the offensive began in 1975, Schlesinger complained that the US was not holding up its end of the bargain and he was right. As I have said, you trust the US at your own peril.

Would Congress or the American people have liked the US bombing? No. Would Ford have faced stinging criticisms from all sides? Yes. But great presidents do unpopular things when it is required and in this case, Ford ducked instead. You think Reagan would have allowed something like this to happen? I don't.


Akagi

Yes many people who watch MSNBC agree with you.

However educated people know differently.

The WMD's
were in Iraq. Chappaquiddick Ted and other libeerals told Clinton that they were, and that Clinton should do something about them. Saddam moved them to Syria during the 14-month period when Bush was waiting for the libeeral Congress to vote time after time for the war.

Peacefrog: Don't forget the World Trade Center was attacked in 1993, Clinton. How about that government office building out west (I can't remember the name) that was bombed by a since-executed American terrorist working for muslim terrorists. Who was Pres then? James, I wrote this before seeing your post.

It was Clinton minion Jamie Gore-lick (Did she service Algore the way Monica serviced Bill) who wrote the directive prohibiting the CIA and FBI from sharing information, thereby enabling the terrorists to carry out the 9/11 attack.

Have you noticed: It's unaccceptable for us to scare (but not hurt) terrorists for a few minutes to get intel, but it's quite acceptable for terrorists to behead innocent people, killing them forever.

Nard #3: The dems are already working on an amendment that would let The Obamessiah be President forever. Are you really sure you want this?

BHO will take the operating capitol from job- and product-producing employers and waste it, like the democrat-controlled-congress wasted the $350-billion bailout money.

In natural disasters, first response is the responsibility of the local government; second response is the state responsibility, and FEMA is the final back-up agency.

What's so amazing is that those who are

so arrogant as to "think" they know so much about "everything" usually know little or "nothing" about "anything."


Brenda
What point would that be? Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11. It HAD NOTHING to do with Al Qaeda. There were two terrorist groups in Iraq on 9/11--the PKK (Kurdish terrorist group in the north which attacks Turkey from Iraq) and the MEK (an anti-Iranian terrorist group based on the Iranian-Iraqi border). Neither the PKK or MEK had links to Al Qaeda or had anything to do with 9/11 either. Iraq was little threat to the US and even if you try to make a claim that it was, the invasion was badly thoughtout, had 1/2 the troops Desert Storm had (an operation much less ambitious than "Iraqi Freedom"), there was no exit strategy or even an idea what the conditions for victory were.

Col. Billy
Please define educated. And care to educate us on the successes. I've not watched MSNBC in years. Watch Fox mostly.

Tom
"We have been lucky to have been led by a man who did not waver."

Yes so lucky not to waver when it was clear that the advice he had been given by the war party had been terribly bad, that the anti-Baathist purges were stupid, that he hadn't enough troops to accomplish even the vague goals that were set but he didn't waver and continued the same stupid policies as before. He fianlly did change direction but by the time it was too late and the GOP was in ruins.

Being stubborn isn't always a virtue.

Disregarding--
Once again, disregarding the ocean of ignorant, mis-informed, knee-jerk reactions to the article, found in 98% of "Comments," the key element in your article, Mr. Elder, is the second paragraph:

"For many historians -- not allowing a little history to pass before rendering judgment -- this makes him a 'failed president.' In a 2006 survey of 744 history professors, 82 percent rated President Bush either below average or a failure. Last April, in an informal poll of 109 historians by George Mason University, 98 percent considered him a failed president, and 61 percent judged him one of the worst in American history. His 'crime'? For most of these historians, Bush led the country into an 'unnecessary war.'"

Of course, the primary factor in that paragraph is your reference to "historians." Like most else in America's--counting from the Mayflower--almost 400-year history, scholars in general, including historians, are an already vanished breed. They have been replaced by the "Big Brother" equivalent. The fact that Orwell's "1984" has been a little late in fructification, by some 20-plus years, it is swiftly rising around us.

"History" is no longer recorded fact, but hastily formulated, and heavily biased opinion. Also of course, that is not a real truth, but in the "Big Brother" enviornment/society that is irrelevant. The only critiria for acceptable "information," or newfact, is whether or not it supports socialist--oops, I mean Big Brother--goals.

the water in GA or lack of is causing
lack of mental and logical acuity in some citizens.

Those of you who also complain about the price issue, think about it again what is the cost of freedom and the health and wellbeing of freedom's protectors. Why don't you look at your own house and remember the amounts of PORK, the Democratic fraud through the institution of ACORN, the thugs FRANKS DODDS REID AND PELOSI Fraud on the Banking Systems and their famous VIP rates. Franks encouraged investing in Franny and Freddy while he knew both were tanking. Ms. Pelosi paid her husband against all ethics laws against such acts, and has millions of dollars invested in "clean windmill technology so you can kiss your low gas bill BYEBYE".
As an aside This is also a concern...make sure you learn spanish. It was made clear by Mr. OBAMA that you guys will have to learn spanish, live with the wetbacks as you call them and open all borders, welcome all. There is a Senator in New Jersey by the last name of Martinez who has the bill ready for total amnesty. oH LET'S NOT forget about the true "FOOL OF THE HILL...Mr. PEANUT FARMER CARTER who is a laughing stock of American Policies and who will soon be joined by the Elected President Husobama."
who has never defended a thing, not this country, a single position (except the right to infanticide) and who intends to get rid of the don't ask don't tell policy without consulting military members.
President BUSH IS, WAS, WILL ALWAYS BE the best president we have had since Reagan.

Mr. Elder
Thank you for this opinion about our President Bush. We do wish him well as he and his people have kept us safe so that some can say hateful, jealous things about this good man.
Brenda,Peacefrog,Tom,NC, robert,Tx, Ernest,NY, $$$ Va: thanks also for re-iterating the truth to make sure that the ron-pauls & akaquis of America can surely go lie by their dish & stop hating & lying now that they have voted in 'the one'.

Anne

Obama will have it a lot easier thanks to Bush.

When Bush came into Office it was illegal for the CIA to share intelligence with the FBI.

Bush fixed that.

When Bush came into office terrorist were free to use the banking systems to transfer funds.

Bush fixed that.


When Bush came into office there was virutally no terrorist security in the ports.

Bush fixed that.

When Bush came into office there were no biological weapons detection systems in the major cities.

Bush Fixed that.

When Bush came into office local police, fire and governments entities were not trained or capable of dealing with a bio-attack.

Bush Fixed that.

When Bush came into office there was no central database of the worlds known terrorists.

Bush Fixed that.

When Bush came into office Osama Bin Laden was free to travel as he pleased.

Bush Fixed that.

When Bush came into office Iraq was a terrorist State.

Bush Fixed that.

When Bush came into office Afganistan had terrorist training camps.

Bush fixed that.

When Bush came into office Lybia was a terrorist state.

Bush Fixed that.

When Bush came into office there was no secure place to hold enemy combantants and other terrorists.

Gitmo Fixed that.

So Clearly there are many many successes of the Bush Administration that the Liberal media hasn't bothered to educated Liberals about.

So when a liberal posts something negative about Bush, you can pretty much understand its due to a lack of education on the issue.

All in all not bad James
I guess it was the dfrnce between being suckered into mobilizing an entire country to fight two wars against tribesmen and shepherds until your country's economy collapses --

vs keeping things in perspective so your country continues to flourish.

Yeah, I guess Clinton had it right. Thanks for the reminder.

Anne
You have only five days left. Obama will be sending the army soon. I'd be looking to board a flight instead of posting your pro-Bush stuff here.

Okay Anne, do you think it bright to have an invasion force 1/2 the size of the one in 1991 that wasn't going to do anything nearly as ambitious as taking the entire country? Was it bright to let the Iraqi Army just melt away into the general population? Did the US occupation forces in Germany do that with the Wehrmacht? Was it bright to fire everyone that was a member of the Baath Party from their jobs either in the military or government in Iraq? Was it bright to let the Iraqi borders be unsecured so terrorists could come in from places like Saudi Arabia and Jordan?

I may not know everything. I may even know very little, but a homeless man with a 3rd grade education could have hardly run the Iraqi operation worse than the brains of the war party did in regards to Iraq. The term clueless comes to mind. I am sure many Democrats supported the war, but they assumed it wasn't going to be run by fools. That assumption proved false. By the time people with brains were put in charge and idiots like Paul Bremer were history it was too late.

Elder-ly
Elder appears to be suffering from mild dementia. His recounting of events in Iraq and then letting Bush off the hook because Clinton failed to take out OBL despite capturing and prosecuting everyone associated with the first WTC bombing, is playground logic. His revisionist retrospective is shakier than a house of cards. Tommy Franks quotes? The stupidity it takes to really think that if we keep terrorists busy elsewhere they won't come here is mind blowing. They've certainly shown their ability to strike on multiple fronts regardless of what we do.

At this point no one really cares, as W. is no longer able inflict any more damage upon this country. Why anyone would bother to defend an administration that was marked by failure, incompetence and a lack of vision is beyond me. RealCon is right. It is inconceivable that a President of such limited ability, as shown by his LACK of accomplishments, will in the future be recognized as a good President.

Historians have granted an eventual reprieve to the reputations of only a few Presidents, most notably Harry Truman, and Bush is no HST. He will remain where he belongs, shoulder to shoulder with Warren Harding.

Ramsey
"President BUSH IS, WAS, WILL ALWAYS BE the best president we have had since Reagan."

That's pretty funny. You did mean that to be humor right?

akagi-thank you
for you many enlightening and even tempered posts. I enjoy reading your opine and look forward to seeing more of it in the future.

Townhall is much for the better due to your prescence.

This is the joke that resurfaced in DC

last April during Pope Benedict XVI official visit to DC.


During a boat trip down the Potomac, the wind blew off the Pope's cap. Pres. Bush immediately stepped off the boat, and WALKED ON THE WATER to retrieve the Pope's cap for him.

The next day the MSM headline story was, "Pres. Bush Can't Swim!"




Even Christopher Hitchens said, "'Bush is stupid' is the joke that stupid people laugh at."


William
Others.

Jame Polk (1846). A point of debate of who attacked who and if who actually owned that piece of land. Lincoln himself saying "show me the spot where American blood was shed on American soil." It did give Polk whaty he wanted though--an excuse to get in a war with Mexico so the US could acquire Mexican territory--which he did.

Lincoln (1861, 1862, 1863). Depends on your point of view I guess.

Wilson (1916).

FDR (1941, 1942). Pearl Harbor, Attu and Kiska. Since the Philippines was a US territory does it count? How about Guam, Saipan and Wake?

Clinton (1993). World Trade Center







akagi-thank you
for you many enlightening and even tempered posts. I enjoy reading your opine and look forward to seeing more of it in the future.

Townhall is much for the better due to your prescence.

Disqualify Elder
There is one rhetorical concept used by Elder which disqualifies him completely as an honest commentator. If he refers to the "regime change" addressed in the Iraq Liberation Act as a justification for the war but does NOT point out that the ILA specifically prohibuited the use of military force to achieve that change, he is flat out lying by ommission.

Akagi
Air strikes? Are you serious? Air strikes chouldn't halt the flow of personel and material into the South by way of the Ho Chi Minh trail, yet whould stop an all-out invasion? Also, you say "trust the US at your own peril"? Just remember Akagi, without the United States your beloved Taiwain just dosen't, and never whould have existed! To me that statement makes you look like a BACA!

Akagi
Let's say airstrikes did TEMPORARALY HALT the invasion ok. Then what? Troop redeployment? Constant airsrikes day after day, year after year (because they were FOREVER going to come South)?

Dr. Douglas--Part I
"...but that he lied us into an illegal and disastrous war. (There was also that little torture problem, but I guess it doesn't matter to this author)."

Illegal? Says who? The US Congress gave him the go ahead and even if they didn't under the WPA (which is probably unconstitutional, but never tested) he was free as CIC to use the military. The Congress could then invoke the WPA if they disagreed and he'd have 90-days to withdraw the forces. There is ZERO evidence Bush lied. Believing something that is true that turns out not to be isn't lying.

"Saddam destroyed his WMD back in the 1990s and many in the intelligence community knew this but backed down under political pressure. The "NIE" was a one page summary document which as distributed lacked the many caveats included in the total document."

Saddam's WMD was debatable. Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, the UN, the intelligence agencies of Russia, France, the US, and the UK ALL believed Saddam had WMD--and after the war some was found which included shells filled with VX. But not to the degree Bush claimed. Many now think Saddam behaved as he had WMD in order to convince Iran that he had them.


Excellent Article Sage, As Usual!
Of couse, the Populists will never accept Bush. Pragmatism is not a simplistic view and is a mystery to them.

Dr. Douglas--Part II
"In contrast to the silly comment above, the media were complicit in all of Bush's war crimes. For example, they refused to cover the "Downing Street Memo", which was a virtual smoking gun about how the "intelligence was being fixed to fit the policy". There are many more examples."

Actually it isn't and Bush's foes read way too much into it by not understanding the context of the word "fixed." In British English the term fixed doesn't mean the same as it does in American English--it doesn't mean "altered" it means "set."

"...why don't you take responsibility for the fact that your president, and party, and members led the country into a dishonest, illegal and disastrous war (not to mention Afghanistan)?"

Again how is it illegal? And are you saying invading Afghanistan was a bad idea?

Col. Billy Mitchell:And, EVERYTHING that

Pres. Bush FIXED, Bozo Obama will either break or throw away... post haste!

"...the CIA to share intelligence with the FBI."

Bozo and Panetta will have the CIA dismantled before we know it.


"... terrorist were free to use the banking systems to transfer funds."

Banks are now making it easier, and providing money exclusively to muslims to easily purchase homes.


"...virtually no terrorist security in the ports."

That will disappear since Bozo Obama intends to OPEN OUR BORDERS TO EVERYONE...

"... biological weapons detection systems in the major cities."

See above. CIA will be dismantled.

"... local police, fire and governments entities were not trained or capable of dealing with a bio-attack."

Good thing Bush fixed that since Bozo thinks terror attacks are a "criminal matter" and it will be up to the local officials.


"....no central database of the worlds known terrorists."

Gone when the CIA is dismantled.

"... Osama Bin Laden was free to travel as he pleased."

Isn't bin Laden going to be AT the coronation? :-)

"... Iraq was a terrorist State.

And it soon will be AGAIN!

"... Afghanistan had terrorist training camps."

And it soon will AGAIN!

"... Lybia was a terrorist state.

Toss up, but most likely will be again.

"... no secure place to hold enemy combatants and other terrorists."

Bozo will have Gitmo closed in a month or so.


"... many many successes of the Bush Administration that the Liberal media hasn't bothered to educated Liberals about."

And they wouldn't admit it if they were capable of understanding it.



Stay In Context
John offers, "he refers to the "regime change" addressed in the Iraq Liberation Act as a justification for the war"

Not true. Read the article again.

Mr. Elder offers that others, not just Bush and the current intelligencia of the time, saw Iraq as a problem that needed fixing.

Akagi
Your 11:10am post is spot on!

Peacefrog--actually no
The US wrote off Taiwan in 1949. The CIA gave it 6 months. The PLA tried to move on Taiwan in 1949 by trying to take Jinmen (which you probably know as Qeumoy) and the ROC forces repulsed the PLA forces which unlike on the mainland actually fought well. The ROC got zero support from the US and had had none since 1948 when it wrote off the ROC after the failure of the Marshall mission.

The PLA was able to take Hainan early the next year, but even if the US had not puts its fleet in the middle of the Taiwan Strait to stop either side from attacking the other it is debatable if Mao could have ever taken Taiwan--Mao faced the same problems as the PLA faces today--difficulty getting enough troops on the ground to secure the beachheads and move inland--that doomed the PLA at Jinmen and Dengbu and would have doomed them if they tried to move on say Penghu or Taiwan as well.

Care to translate BACA for me? I could call you shagua, but that won't mean much to you unless I told you what it means.

Akagi
In 1914 one 17 year old Serbian, Gavrilo Princip, committed two murders, and millions of people paid the price and empires died as a direct result.

Leaders of all of those countries in the great war all committed gross stupidity. None were exempt.

All conflicts do not go according to plan. Monday morning quarterbacking is a past time we devote effort to, because we can. We have that luxury.

Fixating on perceived mistakes, judging the individuals in positions who made those possible mistakes, is presumptuous at this point in time.

History will judge the severity of mistakes, and what they are, and their consequences. What we may consider as mistakes may in fact turn out not to be in some cases.

GWB may be judged far better than you credit him for, or worse. No real judgement can be made using partisan rhetoric that is less than factual as a basis. Let history speak.

Bush right on Iraq, Afghanistan, tax cut
He promised tax cuts, conserv. SCOUS nominees,
education reform, to be pro-life & pro-2nd
amendment, and he was. Consv.'s wanted Ashcroft
& Cheney & Rice & Ted Olson & others, and he
delivered.

6 1/2 years of solid economic growth, low
unemployment, very low int. rates, almost
non-existent inflation. 1 solid year of
horrible housing & mortgage & stock news,
& an unemp. rate that is enviable worldwide,
but, for us, is way too high.

Bush's biggest failure was being a terrible
communicator,with a press that hated him from
day 1, & a consv. press that split on him
over immigration reform aka amnesty. An issue
he always supported, from day 1. Didn't hide it.

With a competent and effective VP, that only
showed up in public 1 time a quarter, he was
hindered. I've seen more of Cheney the past
3 weeks, than I did the past 4 years. Why?

Bush will be judged better by history down the
line because w/o the hatred of the media 24/7,
and w/the decisions Obama is making that mirror
Bush's more than he'll admit, historians will
begrudgingly give him his due on major issues.

Personally, I'm disappointed in the 1st bailout,
the Treasury Sec. decisions he was empowered
to make by Bush, his lack of any back up from
the GOP in Congress for 8 years (McCain's
Revenge), and his inability to make those
tax cuts permanent, and larger for 7 1/2 years.
I'm also disappointed he did not take out the
Iran nuke program or give Israel the green light. I understand why, but, I think that
decision was a wrong one.

Larry, as usual, is right on the money....
not apologizing for Bush. Just making the factual case for what the man got right, and
we take for granted because of it.

More Than One Kind Of WMD's
Larry, there are more than one kind of WMDs and one was named Saddam Hussein and fortunately, we won't know what he had planned for America. Then there are the Islamic terrorists groups all over the world committing suicide bombings and taking down landmark buildings and killing thousands of people walking amongst us and plotting in secret places. Then there are the socialists, marxists, and communists, meeting in secret who want to get rid of the one free country in the world. So tell, me which WMD's are more dangerous to America?

Akagi Practicing The Last Liar Theory
Akagi asks, "Was it bright to let the Iraqi Army just melt away into the general population? Did the US occupation forces in Germany do that with the Wehrmacht? Was it bright to fire everyone that was a member of the Baath Party from their jobs either in the military or government in Iraq? Was it bright to let the Iraqi borders be unsecured so terrorists could come in from places like Saudi Arabia and Jordan?"

Silly questions. We will never know. It is just as likely had those decisions had not been made, it would have been even worse.

Funny thing about reconstructing history, you have the pleasure of inventing your own results. Of course, as most reconstructors, their invented results always have better results than history. Surprise, surprise!

As the old joke in reconstructing history goes, the first liar never has a chance.

Anne
"Banks are now making it easier, and providing money exclusively to muslims to easily purchase homes."

Show us where there is a bank that provides loan money to ONLY Muslims. Note that Muslim is not a synonym for terrorist.

"That will disappear since Bozo Obama intends to OPEN OUR BORDERS TO EVERYONE..."

Really. Show us where he has ever said this.

"CIA will be dismantled."

Sure it will. And this is on what planet?

"Bozo will have Gitmo closed in a month or so."

And would have been closed by McCain as well.



Obama able to skirt on Iraq due to Bush
The surge worked.
Contrary to Obama & Hillary & others,
it worked, and Iraq is now an issue that
didnt' matter in the election (to McCain's
dismay), and an issue the public doesn't
care about much either anymore. It's done.
The original reasons for going into Iraq
filled up 32 or so resolution reasons, not
just WMD. But, that was the one we all remember.
The burden was on Saddam, not Bush. Who listened
to his seasoned staff & the Clinton team leftovers....and the world 10 year opinion on
the Iraq issue.

Still, it became his personal, narrow minded,
conspiracy decision to those who hate him.

Obama can now back off the issue that won
him the nomination away from Hillary...and
the press gives him a pass, as it does on
everything else.

Now, when Pakistan is trembling, Kashmir is
stirring, and the mountains of Afghanistan
are rising up w/the momentary Taliban leftovers,
spurred on by Iran & confusion....and spotty
violence grows in regions of an always troubled
nation -holding on dearly to the new govt.
and freedom it has....Obama wants to put troops
there permanently?

What? He wants to go find OBL! Well, so do
many other nations. Personally, I don't really
care much about OBL, I care about the offshoots
who have the cash and ability to - as small
groups - create death & havoc.

But, Obama can slide on Iraq and other places
because Bush got it right.....when he got it
wrong.

broshow
You said "RealCon is right. It is inconceivable that a President of such limited ability, as shown by his LACK of accomplishments, will in the future be recognized as a good President." Funny, as I read that I thought you were referring to the incoming president, B. Obama.

'Scuse me. After reading it in context, I realized you are merely...wrong.

Akagi
BACA is a term used by servicemen in the Pacific after the Japanese started deploying Baca Bombs. Basically it mean IDIOT. As in " anyone who takes on the roll of a human bomb has to be a BACA". Also it may also actually mean Idiot in Japanese, but im not sure.

anderson659
This isn't about monday morning Qbing. Bush and the brains in the war party were told that the troops were insufficient for the mission and they were attacked and silenced. Bremer was picked because his vision of the CPA and Iraq were more inline with the NeoCons ME agenda and you see what that has done. Don't you think a bright person would have had an Iraqi expert leading the CPA, not someone that knows less about Iraq than I do (and I am no Iraq expert). He was never posted to Iraq or any Arab country as an FSO and doesn't speak Arabic nor understood anything about the country he was going to be Imperial Regent of. That shows a great deal of lack of foresight. I understand not everything can be foreseen, but things like not securing the borders, letting the army melt away, firing masses of people just because they were members of a party in a one-party state, these were foreseeable problems and easily correctable ones.

Col. Billy Mitchell: And one MORE thing.

The NINETEEN attempted terrorist attacks that Pres. Bush and the CIA STOPPED since 9-11.

Given the FACT that clinton provided virtually NO INFORMATION to Pres. Bush as an incoming pres., "connecting the dots" and keeping us safe since 9-11 is more than enough.

Akagi
Are you trying to tell me Taiwain has had NO U.S. support since 1948? I disagree. Oh, and so does China. Come on Akagi, you CAN'T really believe that.

Akagi
I guess the Taiwan Relation Act is a figment of my imagination.

Peacefrog
It kinda does. But it is Baka as in bakamono for stupid person or bakabakashii for stupid. In Kanji it means "horse deer." Horse deer is the red deer, but how this means stupid I have no idea. Chinese the term is very different. Have to ask someone that is much better in Japanese than I am why this term means stupid.

Akagi
Compiling a few things.

You write of the people and nations who thought Hussein had WMD's. I suggest that a good part of the info those nation sused to make that judgement was provided by American intelligence in teh first place. Much like the Cheney camp would give info to Judith Miller, see it printed in teh NYT, and then point to the NYT as support for their contentions.

The import of the Downing Street memo does not change based on a changed reading of the term "fixed". The memo indicates that the decision was made and then the intelligence was arranged around the desired conclusion. The issue is timing, not terminology. Related documents also point out that it is NOT the case that Iraq fired on American planes, but that American and British aircraft intentionally violated Iraqi airspace in order to provoke a confrontation, which Iraq declined.

The archaic, overlooked VX artillery shells are not even worth mentioning.

Iraq presented no threat to the US, even if it did possess WMD's.

Anyone can make a prediction as to what History may ultimately decide about Bush. I suggest the determination will be that in the wake of 9-11 Americans got a bit hysterical. Led by an incompetent commander in chief, we over-reacted and over-reached.









John - It It Feels Good, It Must Be True
John offers, "of the people and nations who thought Hussein had WMD's. I suggest that a good part of the info those nation sused to make that judgement was provided by American intelligence in teh first place."

You can suggest all you want, but that does not make it a fact. Inventing truths to justify your preferred way of looking at things is silly rationalizing.

Show me where those nations have said that their intelligence was derived from America's intelligence. Otherwise, the basis of your entire rant is built on hysterical nonsense.

Anne

That is very true. You know one of the things that is often overlooked is that George W. Bush has less time to prepare for President than any other President in the history of this nation.

Because of Al Gore's failed attempt to steal the Presidency, The Clinton Adminstration refused to brief the incoming Bush Adminstration until all court decisions were final. I can't blame Clinton for that because there is some logic to their thinking. But the fact is Bush has less time to prepare than any other President in History.

In addition, the destruction of White House computers, the removal of government property, and the stealing of documents by the Clinton staff does not reflect well on the Clintons.

Many people forget that when 9-11 occurred, Congress had not yet confirmed all of Bush's appointments. It was the Democrats in congress holding up the process.

Oh what a difference 8 years have made. Bush is again putting the nation first and making sure the Obama Administration gets off to a good start.

Well after
Tuesday, President Bush will head for Texas and the crooked clueless regime takes over to begin socialism which will last until the second revolutionary war begins.

At least, William from Ca. will get to wear his "i'm a homo" t-shirt if he enlists in the army.

Mac Moore
Unproven, but not unreasonable.

I am basing that judgement on two factors. One, the Bush administration has a record of doing exactly that. That's why I included the manner in which the Bush admin manipulated public opinion through Judy Miller. And secondly, American intelligence gathering is far broader and technologically sophisticated than anyone's. It makes sense America would lead.

Regardless, Iraq posed no threat to the US even with WMD's. Bush failed to grasp the geo-theo-political nature of the region. The war is unnecessary.

Akagi Continues With Last Liar Theory
Akagi offers, "Bush and the brains in the war party were told that the troops were insufficient for the mission and they were attacked and silenced."

Which may have been the correct thing to do.

For all we know, had Bush put more troops in, earlier than he did, more people would have died. We don't know. Bush's decisions may have saved thousands of lives. I think so.

My lie trumps your lie.

Peacefrog--Part I
Ever read the TRA?

Please find me the exact section that REQUIRES the US to come to the aid of Taiwan if it is attacked? I'll save you the time. IT DOES NOT EXIST. What the TRA DOES REQUIRE (in regards to military relations--I'll spare you details on AIT and TECRO and visa services and the like) is the US to sale weapons of a defensive nature to Taiwan (and often at inflated prices). And from 1982 thanks to everyone's hero, Ronald Reagan and the the Third Communique, until 1992 the US cut off all arms sales to Taiwan--which in my view violated the TRA and as a US law takes precedent over the Three Communiques.


Peacefrog--Part II
From 1954 until 1979, the US was required by treaty to defend Taiwan if attacked (Jinmen and Mazu were exempted and the US would have rather Taiwan forces to abandon the islands and even during the Esienhower administration offered to help remove them, but Chiang refused as this would in his view undermine the claim that the ROC was the sole, legal government of all of China as unlike Taiwan--Jinmen and Mazu had always been part of China--which is not the case with Taiwan or Penghu). In 1978, the US announced its intentions to withdraw from the treaty as required by its provisions. Sen. Barry Goldwater sued Carter to stop this, but the court basically ruled it was either a political matter which meant the court didn't have jurisdiction (Rehnquist 's opinion) or that since Goldwater was only a single Senator instead of action by the entire Senate, he didn't have standing to bring the case (Powell's opinion). In any event, the suit failed, the US withdrew from the treaty and it was replaced by the much weaker TRA in 1979.

Today the US has a position of strategic ambiguity--meaning it tells Taiwan--don't push too hard on independence because of China decides to invade or use force we might not show up. It then tells China, don't use any type of force to unify Taiwan or we might.

Very fickle what it will do and thus trusting it to show up would be done at your own peril.

One more point. There is NOTHING IN THE TRA that disqualifies Taiwan from the membership in bodies such as the UN. The TRA is rather clear on this point. See section 4, subsection d. Yet, the US opposes Taiwan's entry into the UN or even being a full member of the WHO.

My final point, read first, type later is better than typing first, and reading after you make a fool of yourself.

Akagi, I have to disagree
It indeed is all about Monday morning qurterbacking. Another example is the poster here who suggests that the decision was made to invade Iraq, and then intelligence compiled to support that.

Intelligence agencies all over the world had decided Saddam had WMDs for years. Since he had gassed Kurds, and did other nefarious activities, their observations are well founded and not circular.

Using that point to convey a factual conclusion is in itself circular reasoning, and monday morning quarterbacking.


Stratfor had some ecellent analysis on Bremer, etc. that point out his shortcomings as an administrator, or as you put it an emperor.Once again you point out deficiencies in administration. If Bremer has worked out your criticisms would be moot.

Stratfor and others had for some time pointed out what Saddam was doing.

Tha baath party was viewed as the problem, and getting rid of the party, and party members seemed to be a good idea, since the baath party had a long history of oppression against the majority, especially Kurds.

Like all good ideas, reality collides with practicality. Interesting that many of Bremers administrative policies still stand.

No matter your criticisms of the war conduct, in the end the Iraqi people made the choice to run with the strong horse. They viewed GWB as the strong horse.

The eight years from 1993 to 2001
In 1993 terrorist attack the World Trade Center. Terrorist attack several American embassies and naval vessels around the world during the 1990's. President Clinton was offered bin Laden several times by foreign governments. In Dec. 2000 President Clinton's final national security report to Congress failed to comment Al-Qaeda or bin Laden as terror threats. On 9/11/2001, eight months after Bush is sworn into office, with democrats blocking his appointments, terrorist attacked the nation.

Why would President Clinton say these words but do nothing in spite of his words:

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

democrat, in mass, voted to grant Bush the authority to make war with Iraq. Now democrats say Bush lied to them about the Intel on Iraq's WMD program. Was Clinton lying, too? Or, did Bush manipulate the Iraq Intel Clinton's received?

If Iraq and Al-Qaeda were threats why did Clinton provide the incoming Bush a last policy statement suggesting Iraq and Al-Qaeda were no threats?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/apr/06/20040406-12 1654-1495r/

If Iraq and Al-Qaeda were not threats why did democrats, one after the other in 2002 to 2003 contend that Iraq was a threat in the face of Al-Qaeda’s 9/11 attacks?

Why are liberal democrats so difficult to deal with and pen down on any tough national policy and national security issue!

Larry, my man.....,
...., your article radiates too much common sense and historical fact which is kryptonite to liberals.

As has already happened here in the comments, the terrorist lobbyists (see also useful idiots) have pounced. Now their therapists will be working overtime.

See what you did?


It Depends
It depends on what happens to Iraq or Afghanistan is to me the right answer. "If" both contries are successful at the experiment in democracy, he will be judged to be a successful President. If they are not, then this experiement in nation building will have been deemed to be a failure. His Presidency rests on what happens in these two countires.

Baka
I was told by my mother, who was born in Japan to missionary parents, and spoke Japanese regularly until she came to America to stay the summer before she turned twelve, that "Baka" means "fool"--and "Oh Baka San," (honorable Mr. Fool) was one of the worst things you could call someone. And, I remember that some bombs were called baka, for idiot, bombs. Perhaps the meanings of words have changed in the last fifty to one hundred years.

Oh good grief! Peacefrog, et al....

Please, don't let akagi start. Before you know it, this entire thread will be all about Asia, and will have nothing to do with Elder's column.

Enough already!




John - Truth Is A Matter Of Preference
John offers, "the Bush admin manipulated public opinion through Judy Miller."

The President, as all Presidents, took his argument to Congress and citizens. Of course an argument that you agree with is called logical and an argument that you disagree with is called manipulation.

Bizarre.

As it turns out, Congress agreed with the President.

Reagan phrase?
I apologize if this is a multiple post.

Are you better of now than 8 years ago? Yes = Bush good President. No = incompetent Buffoon.

Peacefrog
From 1950 until 1973, there were US forces on Taiwan as well as the US navy in the Taiwan Strait. You could go to the beaches on the west coast, say like Kending and see them out on the horizon. Token forces were kept until 1979 when the last US forces left.

During the 1995-1996 Strait crisis (which in a way was sparked by the US--if you want I'll explain that to you), the US sent two battle groups to the Strait and in 2008, sent another for the Ma-Hsieh presidential election. Not sure if they sent one in 2000 and 2004.

Most support since 1973 has been weapons sales--sold at inflated prices and only sold what IT thinks Taiwan needs and not what Taiwan wants (see Kidd Class sales rather than the Arleigh Burke Class, the F16A/B instead of the F16C/D, etc.). But when you can only buy from one store (usually--the French Mirage 2000 sale being an exception) you got to take what you can get and pay what they charge.

I didn't say the US had never supported Taiwan. I was correcting your assumptions that without US support Taiwan would have easily fallen. The Battle of Kuningtou (Guningtou) and Dengbu point out how that was not the case.

And from what the US did in the RVN and its statements directed at Taiwan, the statement of trusting the US at your own peril is an accurate one. Unless you are Israel and then it'll go to the mats for you. God's children and all that.

Younger
Baka means stupid or fool. Literally it means Red deer. Why this is the case I have no idea.

Mac Moore
Let's see. A long line of generals have come forward saying the US didn't have enough troops. McCain did too and a host of others. Bush backed Rummy to say no no we have enough. Then after the GOP had been blown out of the water, Rummy was gone he THEN decided to send more troops.

Yes. I guess you are right. The US could have sent less troops to Iwo too and thus less deaths. That is about the most stupid reasoning I've ever heard. More troops don't mean more deaths, often they mean much less. Why don't you look at the causalities rate pre-surge and then post surge. And must I remind you, a lie is saying SOMETHING you know to be false. Saying something false you believe is true is not.

"Anne is smart." That would be a lie.


Col. You are absolutely right on all

counts.

And, not once did Pres. Bush utter one word to denigrate clinton or the media or those in Congress who did nothing but treat him with total disrespect and hatred.

The ONLY real civility in DC was in the White House. Beyond the White House walls was nothing but vile, reprehensible rhetoric that was not at all helpful to our country, or the world for that matter.

And one more thing, now that I think about it, Pres. Bush has actually provided MORE aid to Africa than any other president or head of any state.... EVER... in spite of those who have been whining about needing to send more.

Do I agree with everything he's done? Absolutely not! However, as far as his presidency is concerned, any thinking, reasonable, rational person would have to believe that his successes FAR outweighed any failures.

Yes, Bush is again putting the nation first, and unfortunately it he will be the last for the foreseeable future.

Obama Administration gets off to a good start, for all the good that will do.

Unanswered questions re 9/11

LARRY ELDER writes: "One more thing. We haven't been attacked on American soil since 9/11."

The question which has never been answered is why we were so unprepared and vulnerable to be attacked in the first place. Since 3,000 people were murdered on Sept. 11, 2001, what we should be concerned with is accountability. These other questions beg for answers as well:

Why is mass murderer Osama bin Laden, universally acknowledged as the force behind the 9/11, AFTER SEVEN AND A HALF YEARS, still free to recruit terrorists and still threatening to annihilate the United States?

Why didn't Pres. Bush honor his repeated post-9/11 vows to get bin Laden "dead or alive"? Why did Pres. Bush, six months after 9/11, announce to the world he was no longer concerned with bin Laden?

Why did Pres. Bush dismiss as "historical in nature" the Aug. 6, 2001 CIA report (which Pres. Bush himself had asked the CIA to prepare) warning Mr. Bush that "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S." was CURRENT AND SERIOUS"?

What did Pres. Bush mean when, on Aug. 16, 2004, he cautioned that "After 9/11 we must take threats seriously?" Was Pres. Bush, in effect, admitting that BEFORE 9/11 he and his team, sworn to protect America and Americans, DID NOT take seriously the threats of terrorist attack upon the U.S. ?

Akagi- A Japanese parallel to Iraq
in 1942 US forces landed at Guadalcanal. The Marines were too few in numbers, undersupplied with everything, and soon cut off from supplies due to Japanese naval victories.

The Marines had landed based on certain assumptions. None seemed to work out.

The Japanese sent in their best to get rid of the Marines. One detachment (Sendai I believe) of around 1,000 men was landed, led by a famous Japanese commander. This detachment of men were fresh, well armed, supplied, and just landed.

The Marines had malaria, disease because they were not used to the jungle, and were dug in to defend a landing strip.

The Japanese commander attacked based on his view of the Marines, their capabilities, and those of his men.

The Tenaru river claimed the lives of more Japanese soldiers in one night, in one battle, than the US lost in the first two years of the Iraq war. And the Japanese went on to lose nearly as many, men on Gudalcanal, than we lost in Vietnam.(50,000) plus.

This lesson applies to all battles. No matter the plan,, the players, or the ease that you think you will win, there is always, always variables.

Col Billy
"When Bush came into office Iraq was a terrorist State."

Name me any terrorist act Iraq has been linked to. There were two terrorists groups in Iraq when Bush entered office--the PKK and the MEK. The PKK operated in the autonomous north where Saddam had little ability to stop them. The other was the MEK along the Iranian-Iraqi border, neither were directed toward the US--but Iran and Turkey.

Rose:

Care to show us any substantial links between Saddam and any terrorist group such as Al Qaeda? He did support Palestinians by giving money to families of suicide bombers, but so does the King of Saudi Arabia--is Saudi Arabia a terrorist state too?

Larry, You missed it
Larry, you quote Clinton's insistence that the US diminish Hussein's WMD capacity and then, strangely, you write "Why would President Clinton say these words but do nothing in spite of his words:"

Either you are not aware of OPeration Desert Fox, you forgot about it, or you consciously ignored it. The fact is that Clinton did exactly what he said he would do and that Desert Fox was the true effective end of Saddam's WMD capacity.

In short, Clinton resolved the issue at a cost of about 500 million dollars with a loss of zero American lives.

Bush spent 1-3 trillion dollars and lost thousands of American lives to destroy a program Clinton had already erased.


Tom
There is a lot of revisionism going on about what was in favor and against the Iraq war from the start. That said, it was the Bush Administration that so utterly mismanaged the war fumbling until it finally found a strategy that worked. And what of the billions of dollars of reconstruction money that was either wasted or worse.

By focusing only on the decision to go to war you can make the plausable case that Bush and everyone else was fooled. But on the matter of competence in administration of the war you have to admit he was a major screw-up.

Anderson
Your argument is kind of bizarre. You appear to be saying that because mistakes are inevitable in war, no one should be held responsible for those mistakes. There is a difference between unforeseeable complications and rank incompetence: you don't seem to see that.

Bush's leadership in the Iraq war was incompetent. Those who laud Petraeous now either forget or never knew that he and his ideas were ignored for years by the Bush team. They turned to Petraeous because they had tried everything else and screwed it up.

Why did they ignore him, when he had written the manual on handling a counterinsurgency? One reason is that he advocated for more troops and felt the small numbers committed initially were too small.


Akagi
You say it's the U.S. blocking Taiwan from UN membership? I say it's the PRC, and the UN office of legal affairs (GAR 2758).

Akagi !

Baka , Akagi ! Everything means Red to Japs.

What's The Jap Term for Red Rump ?

Anderson
"This lesson applies to all battles. No matter the plan,, the players, or the ease that you think you will win, there is always, always variables."

I agree. The old saw of every war plan is obsolete the second the bullets start flying is very accurate. Another Pacific War example is Iwo. The US sent more troops than in thought it needed based on bad intelligence on Japanese numbers. Lucky it had them as it needed them.

But there are known variables. If you have half the force you had to do a job much more difficult you know that isn't going to work out. When you are told by a host of senior officers and members of Congress that are experts in military affairs that you don't have enough a wise person would conclude you don't have enough.

They based everything on the assumption that the Iraqis were going to throw roses at their feet and there was no data to suggest this was an accurate assumption and soon you saw how wrong this assumption was.

Had an uncle killed at Guadalcanal, August 1942.

Iraq and Terrorism

The issue of Iraq supporting Palestinian families has come up....again. Iraq sent money to the families of terrorist bombers. This is true.

However, it is alos true that virtually every Arab nation di the same thing. Jordan did, and is our ally. Egypt did, and is our ally. G. W Bush was best buddies with Saudi royalty, and they did as well.

In fact, our ally, Saudi Arabia used its national television station to host a telethon desinged to raise money for these same families.

If Iraq was a terrorist nation for doign so, why is the US allying itself with terrorist nations like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan...among others.

Pres. Bush's Iraq Failure Self-Evident

LARRY ELDER asks: "Does Iraq Make Bush a "Failed President"?

The answer is a resounding 'YES". Pres. Bush either exaggerated, misled or lied to the American people re the need to go to war.

On Oct. 7, 2002, in a speech in Cincinnati, Pres. Bush, sold war in Iraq as vital to the security and survival of the U.S., and furthermore, promised the American people:

"WE WILL PLAN CAREFULLY, WE WILL ACT WITH THE FULL POWER OF THE UNITED STATES MILITARY."

The fact Pres. Bush, Commander-in-Chief of the world's most prolific military, after four years of deadly warfare, had to resort to a "surge" to stave off "consequences of failure," underscores to what degree Mr. Bush failed to deliver on either of his 2002 pledges.

Proof of Pres. Bush's failure was recorded on Oct. 9, 2007, when Rich Lowry, editor of the National Review, wrote in his Town Hall column, "The Lonely War," that

"THE U.S. GOVERNMENT HAS NEVER BROUGHT TO BEAR ITS RESOURCES IN A TRULY NATIONAL EFFORT TO WIN (THE IRAQ WAR)."

In Kathryn Jean Lopez' Sept. 29, 2007 Town Hall column, "A President at War Must Lead a Country at War," Lopez said virtually the same as Lowry, and to make her point, quoted the head of Veterans for Freedom, Pete Hegseth:

"I don't understand why he (Pres. Bush) wouldn't call on Americans to serve their country, in uniform, in this extremely important war.
Pres. Bush understands the stakes of the fight in Iraq and should call on the best and brightest to serve on the battlefield. That message, to me, seems like a no-brainer."

Peacefrog
I didn't say the US was blocking, that is clearly the PRC. I said the US wasn't supporting membership even though there is nothing in the TRA that forbids Taiwan's membership in the UN, WHO, IMF, World Bank, etc.

To be fair, Taiwan screwed up in 1971 when Resolution 2758 was close to being passed. Instead of facing the shame of being kicked out (an organization it was a founding member of), it withdrew. The US at the time was working on a counter proposal of giving China the China seat in the UNSC and a seat in the UNGA but also let Taiwan as the ROC have a seat in the UNGA. Once Taiwan left, that proposal died. Now since 1991, Taiwan has been trying to get back in at first under the name ROC and most recently under the name Taiwan. We'll see if Ma continues to try and under what name.

The US could also have played more hardball in the UN for Taiwan in 1971. "If they go, we go and you can kiss all your US-based visas for all your UN staff goodbye too. Persona non grata mean anything to you clowns?" And you'd see how fast 2758 went poof.

Yeah, right--
Peso george was very successful I believe, in not closing the borders, not deporting illegals and the fence?, What a joke.

"Mother's love" misplaced
People who still defend Bush remind me of how mothers will defend their children no matter what they do or how clear the evidence of their guilt is. They are simply unable/unwilling to believe their president (child) is capable of wrong doing. They will blame anyone and everyone except their "perfect" president (child). "It's not Bush's fault. It was all those bad people he was hanging around with's fault. Don't get me wrong. Thank goodness for the unconditional love of mothers. Someone needs to love us no matter what stupid things we do (and those are many). But to view the president through the same rose colored glasses is a disaster in the making. Hence, the election of the most unqualified person ever as the next president of The United States of America.

Akagi - Lost In His Own Importance
Akagi offers, "More troops don't mean more deaths, often they mean much less. Why don't you look at the causalities rate pre-surge and then post surge."

Neither does less troops mean more deaths, often, they too can mean less deaths. The surge happened at the end of a time line. Had the surge happened before that time line, we do not know the potential. It was thought that too many troops, too soon, would cause a stiffer outrage and more deaths.

Bush, as with all leaders, made the choice that he thought delivered the best results.

Of course, you are reconstructing history to your liking. I doubt your reconstructed story would have a worse outcome than happened. Now, why is that not a surprise?

You remind me of a bad relationship: no matter what is done, you could have done it better. Good grief!

It's your lie/story/invention ... whatever. Your invented outcomes do not trump reality or other invented outcomes. It only satisfies your need for self agrandizement. I doubt Washington will be calling you too soon for advise.

Akagi- I am sorry to hear that
My paternal grandfather was at Guadalcanal.Severly wounded at Okinawa.

Here is a viewpint I wish others would incorporate into this Iraq discussion.

After the US invasion of Iraq, Muslim volunteers by t