Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Thursday, December 18, 2008
Larry Elder :: Townhall.com Columnist
Suppose the Shoe Thrower Targeted Saddam
by Larry Elder
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Do you feel the leaked information from a global warming alarmist organization is meaningful?



The name: Muntadhar al-Zeidi -- a new hero to many in the Muslim world.

President Bush -- in a surprise, end-of-term visit to Iraq -- held a press conference with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. Al-Zeidi, an Iraqi "reporter," shouted, "This is your farewell kiss, you dog," and threw a shoe at Bush. The reporter quickly threw a second. The shoes missed their target only because an agile President Bush managed to duck. And with his typical self-deprecating humor, he later joked, "It was a size 10."

"(Al-Zeidi's) a rather nervous type," al-Zeidi's brother later said, "and above all hates violence and the bombing." Al-Zeidi's employer, Iraqi-owned but Egypt-based Al-Baghdadia television, refused to apologize for its reporter's behavior, calling him a "proud Arab and an open-minded man."

The violence-hating al-Zeidi, according to reports, displays a picture of the "revolutionary" Che Guevara on his wall. Cuban emigre Humberto Fontova, author of "Exposing the Real Che Guevara," credits Guevara with 14,000 executions. Witnesses say this icon for many radicals personally murdered hundreds -- including children and pregnant women. But we digress.

Many Iraqi reporters in the room apologized to the President. One journalist observed, "It was a reporter (emphasis added) who yanked (al-Zeidi) to the ground before Iraqi or American guards could reach him."

Meanwhile, stateside, many in the Bush-hating news media seemed almost giddy -- no doubt considering the shoe throwing a vindication of their own hostility to the war.

Chris Cuomo of ABC's "Good Morning America" said: "Remember when the statue of Saddam Hussein was brought down? When it happened, all the people there started throwing shoes at it. Why? Disrespect. It is a high form of insult."

A CBS "Early Show" reporter said: "Mr. Bush's message of progress was eclipsed in Baghdad by a sign of his unpopularity. The symbolism wouldn't have been lost on Iraqis, for whom shoes can be used to show extreme contempt, as with the footwear beaten against the statue of Saddam Hussein toppled by Marines five years ago."

The Los Angeles Times wrote: "In the few seconds it took Iraqi journalist (Muntadhar al-Zeidi) to wing a pair of shoes at President Bush, the Middle East got its own version of Joe the Plumber. Just as Joe Wurzelbacher's gripes to Barack Obama catapulted him to fame, (al-Zeidi's) burst of rage toward Bush has made him a household name across the Middle East."

"Joe the Plumber"?

Would that be the working-class citizen who politely questioned then-candidate Barack Obama about his spread-the-wealth philosophy? Or was the reference to the lost video of Joe the Plumber hurling a couple of pipe wrenches at Obama's head while calling the now-President-elect a "dog"?

Let us pose a few questions.

Suppose one or both shoes hit their mark. What if President Bush had been struck in the eye and been seriously injured? After all, in the chaos, press secretary Dana Perino was injured when a microphone struck her in the eye. Would some in the media have considered it as comical had the reporter targeted Barack Obama? It is, after all, quite reasonable that the incoming President will be the subject of a greater than usual number of threats.

This raises another question -- how did the Secret Service allow the man to get off not one, but two attacks? "I realized one of the reporters behind me was shouting and, in a way, reloading, with a second shoe," wrote Adam Ashton of California's Modesto Bee. "Off it went, just as fast as the first. I couldn't believe he had time to get a second one off (emphasis added)."

Suppose the Iraqi reporter had thrown his shoes at Saddam Hussein.

During the dictator's 24-year reign, Saddam killed an estimated 300,000 Iraqi citizens. Some place the number at more than a million. This means that, on the low end, over the past six years, a still-in-power Saddam would have killed 75,000 people. Since the March 2003 coalition invasion of Iraq, the Iraq Body Count -- which many consider reliable -- puts the number of violent Iraqi civilian deaths at between 89,000 and 98,000, a number that includes "insurgents" and civilians killed by them. But Iraq now has a fledgling multi-sectarian democratic government, a better economy -- and a free press.

"All over central Iraq," wrote the BBC mere months after Saddam Hussein's fall, "independent radio and television stations are suddenly emerging to fill the void left by the destruction and collapse of the old national broadcaster. Iraqis are enthusiastically embracing the possibilities of a free media after years of heavy censorship. Alongside these do-it-yourself radio and TV stations, dozens of newspapers representing every kind of political viewpoint are suddenly available."

What of the fate of the shoe thrower in today's Iraq? Eyewitness and NBC news producer Ghazi Balkiz put it this way: "(Under Saddam) any insult to the president or the president's guests used to be punished by death." So while al-Zeidi remains in custody, he faces no feet-first visit to the wood chipper.

Who knows? Maybe he'll even get his shoes back.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Larry Elder is a syndicated radio talk show host and best-selling author. His latest book, "What's Race Got to Do with It?" is available now.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to read Larry Elder's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
 
©Creators Syndicate
And the invasions of Iran and Kuwait
Those 100K non combatant dead Iraqis were virtually all murdered by other Muslims. The proven links to Al Qaeda were as much of a 'terrorist threat' as could reasonably be expected.

So, what was your point, besides spewing falsehoods and distortions resulting from your apparently uncontrollable BDS?

Robert
"what was your point Larry?"

If you have to ask, there's no point repeating it.

Poor Ranger29

What a foul mood he must be in tonight.

No Ann Coulter column for him to trash - complain about the "far right", etc.

But hey, I see there is another Malkin column.

I'll bet he's been there.

Pure insanity... thy name is "Robert".

Oops...

My apologies - not another Malkin column, another Mike Adams column.

I'm sure the mood is even fouler now.

Sorry, Ranger - didn't mean to excite you.

Yeah, well "Robert"

At least tomorrow morning, my posts will still be here.

And I also know an F-15 has two rudders.

"LMAO"

Oh No, Iraqi Moonbats
Guess it’s universal. As soon as the smoke starts to clear and the danger ebbs, liberals start crawling out from under their rocks and blasting the very same people who just saved their sorry asses.

Iraqi Robert
Hey Robert, the law of odds guarantees there must be an “Iraqi Robert” floating around Baghdad somewhere.

Iraq's infrastructure may not be quite ready for wide-spread Internet discussions, but I’m sure he still exists. He probably spends his days sitting around the local falafel joint badmouthing his country and repeatedly telling everyone about his days flying a MIG-29 for the Iraqi Air Force (and we must not forget about all his “kills”....much too numerous to count).

Although there is one glaring difference...the “Iraqi Robert” has to have at least some balls – he has to tell his BS and ridicule his crowd face-to-face.

The Iraqi Gov't has a problem
This dude has violated the Koran, embarrased his Prime Minister and his country, now what do they do with him? Can't kill him, the shoe throwing dont warrant that, can't jail him for too long, his paper and the Egyptians would protest...what to do. Well, maybe the solution is to insure he no longer needs shoes. A execution of the feet in a pulic square would send a strong message. As for the idiots in our (so called) MSM, just ignore them, their firms will all be bankrupt soon (NYT,Trib,LAT) and they will be crawling around to Obama for a bailout.

Comments
Hey TH, it seems it's time to get rid of posting comments, since they add nothing of substance. Bye.

What Would Saddam Do?
Is that the measure by which we judge our actions now?

The Shoe
thrower has a friend in Ranger29....maybe even a relative...who knows??

Showing disrespect to the President is typical of liberals in general.

A Car Battery
Larry: a wood chipper? I agree, but probably after they'd made a connection between a car battery and some vulnerable parts. Uday and Qusay would have done the honors.

Idiots don't remember. Including the show thrower.

If he wants to throw shoes at someone who killed the most Iraqis, he should go visit the mullah buddies of Ahmadinejad. He supposedly doesn't like the Iranians, but he doubtless only throws shoes at people who won't throw back. He's obviously a reincarnation of a parasite from a pig's bowels.

Suppose
the shoe thrower targeted Obama. Obama, who cannot take any criticism, would have started WWIII and all of his cult followers would have finally put down their Cheetos and enlisted in the military the next day.

Typical uncouth, loutish behaviour
The simple fact that such cheap and boorish behaviour is viewed as the actions of a "hero" makes clear the level of culture to which much of the world has fallen. American mainstream media is lapping at the pool of the social jackals that would have their own people return to the dark ages. It is amazing that the few remaining true scholars in academia have not at least attempted to point out that the high point of Muslim culture was only achieved AFTER the radical, destructive tenets of the founding "prophet" had been discarded in favour of learning and refinement. Of course this was after all of the peoples of northern Africa, and most of southern Spain, had been slaughtered, or forced to accept Islam. African Arabs? Did not exist before the first Jihad, before whole nations were wiped off the face of the earth.

Anyone who wishes to make a "hero" of this churlish "journalist," would probably wish to canonize Nikita Khrushchev for his shoe pounding at the [dis]United Nations in 1959. Americans should be outraged at this disrespectful treatment of their president, regardless of whether or not some like or dislike President Bush. It is a disgusting insult to America. Of course, most ultra-liberal Americans tread very close to the boundaries of sedition anyway, preferring other cultures to their own. To those "Americans," I say, "Embrace him; you have a picture of what you would have us become--a pack of social scavengers, lacking a true cultural home."

LD35
One, Ranger 29 is actually a 15 y.o. punk without an ounce of brains. We usually ignore the mook.

Two, their disrespect is why I wrote this essay.

http://noliberalspin.blogtownhall.com/2008/11/05/conservati ve_resistance_movement.thtml

We're going to give them a taste of their own medicine.


Ranger29
My Hero. When I grow up, I want to be just like him

Body counts.
100k non-combatants.

South Viet Nam, Laos, Cambodia 2 or 3 or more million "non-combatants" murdered after cowards like kennedy and biden abandoned our allies.Oh, yeah, plus one for kennedy. M.J.K.

If we forget the past,etc
If you want to be like Ranger29, you won't ever grow up.

29 is his IQ!

Here's a couple more what ifs ...
What if a secret service agent drew his weapon and double tapped a couple rounds through the head of this idiot. What would the media say about that ? What if it was Obama ?

What if GW picked up the shoe and proceeded to open up a can of good ole west texas whoop *ss on this loser.

The war
For those of you who may be Terry Goodkind fans, I bring to your attention Wizard's Ninth Rule: Deserve Victory.

I firmly believe that some people deserve death. Saddam was a horrible person who killed his own countrymen for petty reasons.

The "he-never-had-wmds" crowd is wrong...he did have them. There are are documented cases of him using chemical weapons to kill tens of thousands. Did we find a stockpile of them? No. But he had used them in the not-too-distant-past. (Although, I don't know that the government exactly owes it to the citizens to say, "Hey we found a bazillion nukes! What should we do with them now?" We accuse them of lying about everything else...why not this?)

The 100k that died? How many were part of Saddam's regime? Sure...there were innocent lives that died. But here in America, we think all good things come for free. We forgot what the word "sacrifice" means. That and "freedom".

The thrower and the media
I don't fault the thrower...I think that he is ungrateful, and it's a bit ironic that the man he threw the show at was the very man who fought so hard to allow that reporter to have the freedom to throw the shoe...

But still, lives were lost in the liberation from Saddam. Perhaps this reporter lost some family or friends and is understandably bitter. His response isn't the most mature, but I can't fault him for that.

But our media? What a bunch of wanks! Whose side are you on, ABC/CBS/etc??? They swallow anything provided it insults America, capitalism, or Republicans in any way, shape, or form.

Thrown at Sadam?
If the reporter threw his shoes at Sadam during an international news conference, not only would the reporter have been tortured and murdered, but probably also his entire family… every single one of his family that Sadam could track down.

If The Shoes Were Thrown at Obama
If the shoes were thrown at Obama, his security team would've jumped in front of him to protect his divine self, then grab the killer shoes, and wrestled them to the ground.

Obama would then claim he never knew the shoes, where they came from, or even seen a pair of brown dirty loafers in his life.

Later reports would prove that the shoes had donated illicit funds in the amount of $25k to Obama's campaign in exchange for political favors since the Bush Administration had proven itself racist against all shoes made of brown or black leather.

The brown shoes that were allegedly thrown at Obama claimed that Obama turned his back on all loafers of color by not appointing a pair of boots to his cabinet.


Did anyone
else notice the accuracy of the shoe throw?
That took practice to throw that well.

Maybe our own MSM sponsored a contest and Mr al-Zeidi won.

There is no credible evidence to show otherwise.

John Spencer
Excellent post!!!

Speaking of shoes
We Democrats, in a manner of speaking, have thrown an almighty big shoe at Bush and the rest of the Republicans, and it's a shoe they won't be able to duck.

It's the shoe of HOPE and CHANGE, and that shoe has hit the Republican Party right smack in the chest.

In January, we will start the hard work of making this world a much better place. The light of HOPE will shine on conservative and liberal alike, and all will rejoice in the splendour of its glory, and our nation will change for the better. And that's a hope that won't be changed, no matter how it's detractors hope otherwise, for the change will hit them as well, and such a change will engender hope in the hearts of those who would change others from hoping, that their hopes will change our hopes, but verily their hopes will be futile, for the hopes they hope to change will change their hopes that they match our hopes, and then our nation will change. Hopefully.

May Obama bless each of you.

Better title...
"Suppose the President of the United States had actually gone after the people who attacked us on 9/11?"

Democrat For Life:
Thanks! I needed that! ;)

Larry Elder full of hot air!
Yes Larry! What if the shoe had been thrown at Saddam while Rumsfeld was in Baghdad amd shaking hands with Saddam and most certainly thanking him for getting after the Iranians who had kicked out the Sha, the oil boy of and for America? Maybe even giving him some help know how, like poison to get after the Kurds who supported the Iranians, and yes while Saddam may have created some of the mass graves where even newly born were found, etc.

Where was Larry Elder at that time and most of Americans? Yes, what the heck, killing thousand of innocent Arabs as long as oil is aplenty for the now even despicable Hummers, and mmany other monstrosities cloaging the highways and byways. Yes, from America the beautifull and claiming to be under God and says it trust God!

Now, interestingly enough as George W. praises himself to high heaven the three biggies car companies, he does not know how to save them from extinction! And no question getting the hell out of the Oval Office and handing Obama an economy so utterly despicable, that it makes the Founding Fathers shaking in their graves.

If George Washington is not shaking in his grave while he said this: "Overgrown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to Republican liberty". Yes one more quote from him: "No pecuniary consideration is more urgent, than the redemption and discharge of the public debt: on none can delay be more injurious or and economy of time more valuable".

So Larry Elders, what's your answer? You brave reported! Yes, convenient bravery!

Question
Why do RangerRobert's posts disappear each day? I know they do, but I don't know why.

Shells--now that was great! I had to laugh.

President Bush has done things that I don't like (acted like a liberal when it came to some issues), but he has always had the best interest of the American people uppermost in his priorities. I am not so sure we can expect the same from Obama. Liberals have a different mindset, and it is unsettling to think what he will try.

I think with Obama, the shoes would have hit him because either he would not have the sense to duck, or he would figure getting hit would garner sympathy from the boot-licking press and his brainless followers.

If the left does not howl when Obama messes up--and he will--they will only offer further proof that they are the hypocrites we have always known them to be.

Democrat for life....
What does hope and change mean? What is going to change? Please explain to me what is really going to change. I have a bleeding heart liberal for a mother in law, and even she can not tell what the heck it means, only that she feels hopeful, which still leaves me wondering.

Disrespect and peace lovers
As a child in the late 60s, early 70s, I watched in confused fascination as the “peaceful” anti-Vietnam War demonstrators assailed police officers and politicians with whom they disagreed. So here we have another “peace” loving, Che Guevara fan demonstrating his “open mindedness.” And again we have the Muslims celebrating an assault against America. The last time, in case you forgot was on 9/11 when members of the “religion of peace and love” danced in the streets as news of the death of thousands of Americans reached them.

Once again the U.S. faces hatred and disrespect from those we helped. Under Saddam (a Sunni who repressed Shiites) Muntadhar al-Zeidi, a Shiite, would not have been allowed to even be a reporter much less get close enough to attempt to assault a world leader. The U.S. gave this ingrate idiot the freedom to do this. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Remember that if not for the U.S., the French, Germans and much of Europe would not now be free to show the U.S. the level of disrespect they have shown for decades.

For those who are asinine enough to claim that an assault against Bush is not the same as an assault against the U.S. try to remember that he is our President for another month. An assault of any U.S. President is an assault and insult against our nation. If anyone does anything like this to Obama I will decry their actions the same as I do now; the President is the President. You may disagree with him as much as you like, but do not assault him. Not in my presence.

H.D.'s Homework Assignment
I highly recommend you pick up some unbiased reading material on the Iran/Iraq war...and throw in a few NIE reports from the period.

Come back when you know what the hell you're talking about.

H.D.
Our founding fathers turned over in their graves when the United Socialist Party took over congress 2yrs ago.

They ruined our economy for no other reason than to bring President Bush down.

And, ultra stupid morons like you are also guilty and by god we won't let you forget.

The Freaken Shoe was thrown a Free Press
The wing nut was out to poison a well that is filled with good intentions by Bush and the bodies of very dead or maimed US soldiers. I only note US soldiers at this time because Brown and other National leaders supporting Iraq's freedom of Democracy & dictator Saddam Hussein, were not the target on this occasion.


Saddam would have used this reporter for fish food along with the young girls his sons were raping and then, murdering. It sickens me that our North American Press which preaches common goals for the common man, could be so callous towards folks living under the thumbs of people like Saddam.Media leaders pretend that Bush is a villain worthy of this insult?? I find it disgusting and gives credence to the reporter, who is the ignorant Well Poisoner here.


It is insulting to people who lost their family members from other nations or as independent freedom seekers within Iraq supporting the defense of Iraqi freedom. Young men wearing Iraq police uniforms or the fledgling soldiers wearing their national uniform with pride .Our Media could care less that the results of such a reporter getting his way, would be more DICTATORS killing free speech. They would then whine on this side of the Atlantic about the terrible atrocities against humanity being preformed in Iraq.

After all little girls were being stoned to death for, being raped. Women were being executed at soccer stadiums in Afghanistan, for having the misfortune of being raped.


This is not a glorious moment for our press or media because they are so consumed by the same hatred for Bush as the shoe throwing reporter. Bush's sin? He gave Iraq and the US a sense of relief from terrorist planning which took place in Afghanistan & was financed by Saddam. Schools & Mosques within Iraq borders were found containing upwards of 3500 suicide vests during Iraq invasion. Who were they to be used on? Certainly not Iraqis.The North American Press is spooky in their ignorance.




Sarah Conner asks
"Democrat for life....
What does hope and change mean? What is going to change? Please explain to me what is really going to change. I have a bleeding heart liberal for a mother in law, and even she can not tell what the heck it means, only that she feels hopeful, which still leaves me wondering."


Allow me to bring you illumination.

We hope for change. We will change the hopes of every citizen in America, that the hopes of Everyman line up in accordance with the hopes of Obama, and he will change their hopes to match the hopes that change hearts for the better, hearts that previously knew not hope, and thus were unable to change, but now the light of hope shines upon them, and verily change is in the air, and that is a change that we can all hope for, for it will change our hearts and hopes for the better. Doesn't that sound hopeful to you? Embrace that hope and you will change.

May Obama bless you richly

Accolades Mr Elder.
Mr Elder::: You have the smarts to have risen above that type of contempt that the mainstream media found so funny about Bush being assaulted. Bush represents freedom and a willingness to do what was asked of him by the media when they were whining about the foreign Dictators. Now they treat him with contempt for doing the tasks they assigned to him. Fickle self serving jerks that change with the tide or do they only manipulate the tides.


Two Relevant notes from History of comparison that the Shoe Thrower missed or maybe misses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Saddam

The newly-appointed President Saddam Hussein orders his half-brother Barzan Ibrahim al-Tikriti to initiate a bloody purge of the Ba'ath Party leadership. Saddam himself executes his closest friend and ally Adnan Hamdani as a show of strength. The Islamic Dawa Party rock Baghdad with a series of terrorist attacks while Saddam is on a hunting trip in Tikrit with his wife Sajida Talfah and son Uday.

compared to::



http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/23/africa/23iraq.php


January 20, 2009...
How about thousands of conservatives line the inaugural parade route in DC, and as the new President Barack Hussein goes by, wave shoes in the air and sound out with mass ululation!

Is Democrat for Life the new name of...
... the poster previously known as Loyal Democrat? Because in both cases, the satire is startling in its accuracy.

Let
Sarah Conner asks, "What does hope and change mean? What is going to change?"

Who knows? When told that his church of 20 years, his mentor, married him, raised his kids, did not play well in middle America, he denounced its preachings. Obama turned on his church, for votes!!! Who on earth would do such a thing?

If the man won't stand up for his church, don't get your hopes too high for what he will do for America.

Excellent Article, Larry!
With Che on the wall, it seems this shoe throwing member of the press fits the Liberal requirement: blind allegiance to populism.

Well, at least he can practice it in peace.

Has anyone ever noticed
that protesters ALWAYS practice their moral outrages in the countries with most tolerance for criticism AND the fewest reasons for such actions?

I do not recall peaceniks rallies in the USSR, China, Cuba, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc, etc. No, most are held at noon, on warm days in Central Park.

Mac Moore
Liberals are chameleons........they will pose as anyone necessary to get power. Plain and simple.

From Willie posing as a black president, to Hillary visiting black churches, singing with them, its no surprise that BBarry Oh, Oh, Oh, changed the color of his stripes to get elected.

Personally I think the man is scared sh!tless, and is going to take the easy route of the presidency.......

Heh....
I suppose one can say Che Guevara was a peaceful individual. Of course, his definition of "peace" was to silence anyone who opposed the New World Order with a bullet to the head.

Ironic isn't it, that a Che admirer who denounces violence resorts to assault.....

*Snark*

Democrat for life
If your name is meant to state exactly how you stand, why bother with a conservative column?

Frank,
Don't forget the democrat hero (actually traitor) John Kerry. The man who, without government authorization, met with the enemy during time of war. At the time, he was still in the Navy Ready Reserve. His actions were in violation of many U.S. Code, the UCMJ, and Navy Regs. He should have been in Leavenworth or the brig at Quantico, rather than in the Senate. Yes I'm angry. While he was betraying our country, I was still flying missions over Viet Nam, particularly Hanoi... remember John McCain?

OBTW. The shoe throwing "hero" should have his feet and his throwing hand surgically removed and made to work in a shoe making factory. This would be a minor punishment in many Muslim countries.

what if
1. There could be a granade in a shoe (he was checked? Somebody could place somewhere there a granade long time before the meeting, like Muslims had put box cutters on an airplane on O'Hare)
2. Secret Service fiasco...A dog would do a better job.
3. Try it in USA, or throw anything at any other VIP anywhere else - and you might get shot.

4. American MSM would do it to Bush, if they could do it without a penalty...Heck, they spit on him every day!!!

5. Will Bush pardon Ramos and Compean? Not likely. Obama? No.

Sarah Conner
Everyone I knew who voted for Barack Hussein Obama comes up with the same answer. "I am hopeful for change". Reading some of BHO's comments today show that he is going down the same path as Clinton as far as his appointees are concerned and that he has very little grasp of where he has entered.

It will be interesting to see if those who voted for him ever get the picture.

How far we have fallen under Republicans
Serious estimates put the number if Iraqi deaths due to the war in the hundreds of thousands, the number of displaced as refugees in the millions. Elder deals with this by giving the report of the lowest possible count of deaths, (those directly confirmed in reports as if most deaths during wartime come in that form) to try to pretend the war has been different than it has. That is what one does if death is a pr matter rather than an issue of serious concern.

The question of how a reporter had time to throw two shoes has been a major issue of concern in the MSM. Elder pretends otherwise.

And the case for American preference would be stronger if there was reason to believe that people taken in by Americans or American allies were treated to serious judicial processes. But even Cheney is now admitting that our leaders approved torture, although some of the people taken in were innocent, and some died from the torture.

That is not to say we are as bad as Hussein, but it was nice when we felt more need to keep the separation larger. I hope Obama brings us back to the day when supporting the US did not mean saying, at least we are better than Hussein. What a miserably low standard to aspire to.

Stupid, egotistical grunt.
If you really want to examine an eternal a**, ask yourself about global warming. Snow in Las Vegas?

The greatest disservice that has happened this year was the Nobel Peace Prize going to Al Gore.
I'd just love to throw snowballs at him.

Granite Eagle
"From Willie posing as a black president, to Hillary visiting black churches, singing with them, its no surprise that BBarry Oh, Oh, Oh, changed the color of his stripes to get elected."

I heard a rumor that Bill Clinton is suing Barack Obama, because Mr. Clinton owns the rights to "The First Black President" moniker....

;)

Lon is Right
People who have to travel the world on business will tell you in a heartbeat how low President Bush has brought the USA in the yes of the world - where we used to be able to count on friends.

I'm not talking about the "left" (the Frogs, "Freedom Fries" and all that), I'm talking about the abysmal moral damage that Bush has wrought on our country's image among people of goodwill.

Clinton was bad enough, and Obama will be no better, but Bush has handed the left a great victory. We are a socialist country now, headed for Weimar-level hyperinflation, and Bush did it. Obama will not be president for five more weeks. This happened under Bush.

Repeat: Bush did this. Shame on him. That's why the shoe-thrower has gotten such resonance world-wide.

Ok, now I know
I had read a few of Democrat for Life posts yesterday and I was wondering if it was satire, and their response to me now confirms it. You have got it down. I work with alot of Obama fans and you have their comments concerning him down. My son just graduated last week with a degree in Mechanical Engineering from Texas Tech (GO Red Raiders!!) He does not have a job yet and my bleeding heart mother in law is very concerned that he may not be able to find one anytime soon. I said of course he will, come January 20th the second coming is being sworn in as president and all will be right with the world. No comment from her. I mean where's her faith in her man Obama. He is going to change everything.

Judith
The Goron and the IPCC won the Nobel *spit* Peace Prize in 2007. This year's "winner" is Martti Ahtisaari, former president of Finland, for his "efforts, on several continents and over more than three decades, to resolve international conflicts."

Keep in mind the word "efforts", since some of his diplomacy centered around the Kosovo conflict...

As to the Goron, I whole-heartedly agree: the man is nothing but a snake oil salesman.

And snowballs would be too easy on him!

;)

PS-- Dem for Life is a satirist!

'Your and idiot'
Yes, if a hot day in August is proof of man-made global warming, then a cold day in Vegas is proof otherwise. My 'concensus' of scientists is bigger than yours. na na na.

Doc Liberty
"Is Democrat for Life the new name of...
... the poster previously known as Loyal Democrat? Because in both cases, the satire is startling in its accuracy."

Doc, I'm pretty sure that Loyal Democrat and Democrat For Life are two different individuals, both of whom do a good job of satirizing liberals and the democratic party.

you idiots (I mean tr)
Hmm....an examination of current geological info reveals that while polar ice may be melting a little, Antarctica is actually increasing in ice.

Greenland is increasing too.

Temperatures have actually been decreasing since the late 90's.

Seems the only idiot here is you.

LMAO (permission not needed from the barstoolwarmer)

Iraq Body Count
Lon posted comment at 9:32 that is at variance with observable fact. First of all,Iraq Body Count does not count only the confirmed deaths, but also rumored deaths, some deaths twice, and so on. Second, the left has not tired of telling us that Iraq was in a civil war, with Muqtada forces battling Sunni and the Iraq central government as well. It is hard to imagine how our early withdrawal would have made that civil war less bloody.

Remember how, in the first days after the invasion, the Lefty media loved to talk about civilian bombing targets? Then, rather abruptly, they stopped, because it had become obvious to everyone that we were not bombing civilian targets, and the side that they favored, the side fighting Americans and other Iraqis, did just that. Every time you see one of the media traitors, remember, Tokyo Rose got five years in Leavenworth for less. Nevertheless, we won!Lon's guy Saddam Hussein, is dead, to plague Iraqis no more. Thanks be to God, Whom we ask to bless George W. Bush, and the Iraqi people.

The next time.....
...anyone decides to declare: "not ALL muslims" when referring to their 5th century culture and its violent nature, any sober and mature adult can bring up this incident.

The adolescent shoe-thrower is being celebrated in the towel-head world of stoning women, raping them and then charging the victim with a crime, and lopping off the head of the occasional dissident in their midst.

Let's recap, folks:

We came in and got rid of a mass murderer who murdered 330k Iraqis just for breathing.

Our country has been safe under George's terms as president.

Iraqis can now vote and build their infrastructure while openly criticizing their elected government.

Now this "journalist" throws a shoe at the leader of those who gave them freedom of the press, and the former is now celebrated by Iraqi "deep thinkers" and their sheeple.

I say let's split, and when the last grunt boards the transport, leave this message to the Iraqis: One more incident of violence in America from ANY muslim, and your country will become one big glass parking lot.



Ken92
Kids like you get so upset when men like Mr. Elder "just doesn't know his place".

Does your mother know you're using her computer again? Shame on you.


hey you idiot
Bush is not my man, I vote third party. Don't assume I am a Rebublican because I come to a conservative website. I vist huffington post and daily kos also. My mother in law is one of the most obnoxious and condesending people I know so I throw it right back at her.

Chris, Lon
You are liberal apologists......admit it then go to rehab for it.

There is a date a little over 7 years ago that changed things permanently for most of us. Most of us. You two seem to forget it....and want the rest of the world to like us.

Anyone ever noticed that while liberals want the world to like us.....
Russia continues to exert influence on Europe and the former Soviet Countries, without apology....and also continues to serve as the home of one of the most violent mafias in the world....all while trying to hold countries hostage with energy??

China continues:
a huge military buildup, industrial espionage, spying on the US's military program, and continues to exert influence in southeast asia?

Radical Muslim Terrorist attacks continue....globally?

Latin American Countries continue to fall into socialist administrations who nationalize for the "good of all"
Tribal Warlords continue to scour the face of Africa without regard to death and dismemberment.
Iran continues with their Nuclear ambitions.
North Korea continues with their Nuclear ambitions.
The middle east continues as a cesspool of radicalism

Sorry....Chris, Lon.
The world is one in which the power of violence and military control largely rules......

So...when it comes down to it......hugging, kissing, and consensus building does nothing but create the illegitimate UN.....

Sorry, there are but a few countries with will to correct what is wrong.....we live in one of them.

Obama will take office...and largely like Clinton, pay lip service to all that is bad...but he will ultimately stand by idley and watch as it all happens......


Ah, tr
What is truly nice is having the knowledge that your time here on this thread is limited, and soon all your posts will be gone.

LMAO at the sad pathetic attempts of tr to try and make himself relevant.

Democrat for Life
Unsubstantiated quote from Michelle to her husband after several hard days on the campaign trail.

"Honey, I was hoping you would change your underwear today."

Reply: "Not til after the election Michelle. You know these are my lucky drawers"


tr
Ya just gotta ask yourself, if Al Bore really is right, if all his so-called "facts" are truly facts, then why is he not heeding his own advice and living in a manner that would put as little pollution and CO2 in the atmosphere as possible?

He's nothing but a typical liberal hypocrite.

LMAO ( permission not needed from the barstoolwarmer)

I vote Libertarian.
I believe that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. We are where we are because of Rebuplicans and Democrats. I think people are naive if they believe that politians really give a darn about you and I, it is about power and control, their power over you. I want people to defend their postion with facts, not feeling. You don't like George Bush, tell me why. Don't say he is stupid. I can tell you why I do not like him. I was/am against this war in Irag since the beginning, because this was more about finishing what his dad started, nothing to do with 9-11. I believe in limited goverment, goverment has grown alot since Bush became president. I am a parent and I am very concerned about the financial burden that is being placed on my children and future grandchildren by the polititians that really have no clue about what they are doing. This all about creating the illusion that they are helping. Keep the masses afraid and they can pretty much get away with anything. Hopefully that answer your question, you idiots.

Sarah Connor is signing off.

Left doesn't care
The raging Left won't listen or respond to logic and reason, as presented in Elder's article here.

These people don't care about the new safety and freedoms of the people in Iraq. Liberals hate Bush and that's all they see.

LMAO
tr, if you truly take your blinders off and do the research, you'll find a wealth of scientists here and in other countries who debunk the global warming scare.

In the seventies, we had the socalled "new ice age" scare.

There will always be alarmists who won't be satisfied till they whip society into a fervor over their half-baked claims.

In a few years, after the global warming furor subsides, there'll be some new crisis they invent. Who knows what the next scare will be?

LMAO...Maybe it will be a worldwide increase of idiots like you, threatening to dumb down the entire world if nothing is done.

Shoe Throwing
I felt personally insulted, the United States was insulted, our Presiden't was put at risk. The show thrower could have had a grenade or a "shoe bomb." The perpetrator under another regime would have been beheaded. Barbra

shoes
Security at the next press meeting will demand that everyone check their shoes at the door

Anyone
Ever wonder why they worship people like Che Guevara?
I think they know as long as the US Military is around and we have our 2nd amendment rights they will NEVER march Conservatives into camps and exterminate them.
They are holding out for a hero.
5 stars Larry!

LMFAO hic! (not used with seatbuffers or permission, because I will NEVER ask for it!)

Palin/Jindal in 2012!

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Peso George, Pardon Ramos and Compean before you leave office!!!

Journalism RIP 2008
It's easy to see why so many George Soros acolytes and Anti-Semites applaud this thug. We have seen eight years of hatred spewed towards our president from a bunch of "bed-wetters" because he had the termerity to stand up for our country when we were attacked (Saddam may not have orchestrated the attack on 9-11 but he applauded it and supported terrorists around the globe while violating countless UN Resolutions that he agreed to in order to halt the previous Gulf War.). These folks practiced an active policy of "rule or ruin," which they were able to implement after the 2006 elections when their placemen did all that they could to undermine our troops and wreck our economy. If it weren't for the fact that most of us have to live in this country, then we would consider showing the incoming president the same respect. Of course, by doing that, we would truly be fighting for our country.

Doc, good morning!
Did you see my 11:00 post?

The Global Idiocy scare, coming to America someday!

LMAO (permission not needed from the barstoolwarmer)

Irony
Contrast this story with the one about the Muslim nations seeking an end to free speech at the U.N. conference on anti-racism. Makes you think twice about spending one more dime or one more drop of American blood on these ingrate barbarians.

CF
There will always be alarmists who won't be satisfied till they whip society into a fervor over their half-baked claims.

Yup, kinda like local weather people all get their panties in such a tingle when a storm approaches.
Happen here the other day and instead of 3 or so inches we got a dusting and a little freezing rain. And this goes on all the time.

LMFAO hic! (not used with seatbuffers or permission, because I will NEVER ask for it!)

Palin/Jindal in 2012!

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Peso George, Pardon Ramos and Compean before you leave office!!!



Question for the Global Warmers

Whenever one is faced with an AGW fanatic, like "you idiot" (sooo mature!), one question is usually all it takes to give them that "deer in the headlights" look:

"Exactly what is the consensus for the ideal planetary temperature and who decided?"

CFriar-Doc-YLG-Others
My Goodness! The Liberal Dopers are up early this morning! Interesting Logic that Ken92 uses for his screen name. His name followed by his age and then his IQ.

If this MORON had thrown shoes at Saddam Hussein, he would’ve had a grenade shoved up hid backside and the pin pulled.

BTW, why are The Libtards injecting Global Warming into this thread? Smoking Crack must accentuate ADHD. LMAO! HIC!


"you idiot"

I see you just can't help yourself by being here.

Is there no end to your trust fund?

It figures you'd be an AGWer.

You're too ignorant to know you are a victim of one of the greatest scams ever perpetrated.

"LMAO"

Georgetwin
did ya read my 11:00 post?

Just wait, the global idiocy scare is just around the corner.

One has only to watch the threads with the proliferation of nitwits like tr to see evidence of that.

Whatever can we do to stem the tide of idiocy?

We're doomed, doomed I tell ya!

LMAO (permission not needed from the barstoolwarmer)

i am listening to gallagher this morning
and caller after caller echoing the hosts comments said,

"he should have been dead on the ground before he got his second shoe off."

so the american impulse is to kill the guy.

there are reports (although not verifiable) that the guy had ribs and arms broken.

either way, do we as americans condone the same kind of tactics saddam would have used.

What would you expect
The left and the left media don't show any respect for the president, why would anyone expect that foreigners would.

If there has been a loss of prestige in the world it is the product of the wholesale scorn that has been heaped on Bush indiscriminately.

Changing presidents is not going to change the impression that American's don't support their presidents any longer. That was not smart to send that message for 8 years. Bush may be an idiot, but he's or idiot.

Obama is younger. Maybe he'll be able to catch the shoes!

Primus54
Got point. Here's couple other good questions.

What is the correct level of CO2 for the planet?

How will CO2 sequestration affect vegetation, particularly agriculture?

Doesn't it seem like we know these things in advance?

CFriar
Yes, I read it! Good One!

A few other questions come to mind:
What caused The Ice Age(s)?

What ended The Ice Age(s)?

If pollution is causing Global Warming, does that mean that all the Anti-Pollution measures of the last 30 years were LIBERAL LIES?!?!?!

Nope, idiot
"was there a group of people in the seventies with lots of leftover windmills so they decided they could sell them if they just convinced the world, with scientific journals, that climate change is occurring?"
-----

No. But there WERE a bunch of scientists in the 70s who were absolutely convinced the planet was headed for an ice age.

Several of them are now claiming out-of-control AGW.

What's the scam?

If even ONE tax dollar is spent on AGW - it is a dollar that you might as well have lit fire to.

Here's a clue, idiot. The climate is ALWAYS changing - always has, always will.

Even if the planet WERE warming - who's to say this isn't a benefit?

The problem most of you AGWers have is that you assume we live in the "perfect" temperature right now - or ten years ago.

Human arrogance and greed is all this amounts to. And you are a perfectly "useful idiot".

you idiot
What happened to the 300ft of ice that covered death valley 1000s or millions of yrs. ago.

And the 10,000ft of ice that covered the NE part of the country.
The above info comes from scientists.

Also, in 1917, President Wilson was shown the glaciers in Montana and was told,"they are not as big as they were 100yrs ago".
Think about that!

Gutless Coward
Well Cellblock Boy! Did you get deloused this morning? Did your boyfriend give you a reach around? Did you two Girlymen play games with your oatmeal? Go somewhere where other Gay Liberal Cowards spew lies before you are banned AGAIN! LMAO at a Gutless Coward!

Merry Christmas
The shoeless wonder? Where was he when Saddam was murdering his own people? Let us be patient ans see the reaction when Pres. Obama receives less than warm reception in some foreign country he will eventually visit. Don't hold your breath, the media will demonize any one who dare insult the Messiah. Only i America.

"you idiot"

All one has to do is read your last two comments to me to see why Townhall has you on the permanent "banned" list.

You are incapable of arguing a point without the childish & vulgar name-calling.

You're a 12-year old in an adult body.

Good luck with that.

Shoe thrower
The man is and will forever be a national hero in Iraq. The only people who fail to see or appreciate that are on this web site and their fellow travelers.

The closest approximation to his act of defiance and contempt was 20 years ago in Tienanmen Square. The sole man who stopped a column of tanks.


Security?????
He could have been killed! This is no laughing matter,would it have been Hussein Obama heads would roll. Our liberal Heads would make a big stink and so would the MSM. Our country as we know it is gone,or going fast. Hang on America it is going to get worse. God help us. Obama will bring us down.

Bleeding Heart and other liberals
YOU GUYS MUST BE KIDDING ME! He's like the guy in Tiananmen Square!?! WTF?! NOT EVEN CLOSE! That man stood in the face of DEATH. Shoe Man threw his shoe at a Western Leader that would NEVER call for his execution. In fact, HE LAUGHED, you IDIOT!

You liberals do NOT understand bravery at all. You hold protests and scream "tyranny" in the the FREEST NATION ON THIS MISERABLE PLANET and then you claim you are brave. Had that man had the cashews to throw that shoe at Saddam, he'd be dead by now and probably his entire family as well. Had that man had the cashews to throw that shoe at some other wretched Arab/Persian dictator, he's be dead by now and his family with him.

In fact, you liberals KNOW THAT AND THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T PROTEST IN SUCH COUNTRIES and neither would that guy. You are COWARDS, nothing but Yellow-bellied COWARDS. You will never actually stand up in a real fight. You will lay down, belly up and beg for mercy.

Disgusting! Disgraceful! I hope that man does get the max time he can in an Iraqi prison for what he did and he can be somebody's senorita. He's an idiot and so are the rest of you liberals.

"you idiot"

A "scam" is when you convince another to do something under false pretenses.

Two examples:

1. Tax dollars spent on AGW.
2. Whatever you said or did to convince a woman to marry you.

Dear Ladykrystyna
One person's Cowardice is another person's Hero. When Bush is relegated to the dust bin of history, the shoe thrower will still be remembered. No matter the spin Bush and his fellow travelers try to put on the Iraq War, the Iraqis actually lived it.

shoe thrower
letterman said the other night that dubya hasn't ducked anything that well since vietnam lol.say what you want about che but he was in the trenches fighting for what he believed in until the end.he wasn't afraid to die for it either.maybe he was wrong but he wasn't a coward like castro.all these neocons in the bush administration remind me of the three stooges episode where the king entrusts the boys to look after his daughter.moe tells the king that he'll protect the princess to the last drop of shemps blood.

you idiots #59: Our economy in shambles

and YOU STILL don't understand how and why???

Sub-prime loans ring a bell?

Who was responsible for that little program?

D E M O C R A T S!!! Your pals! Your buddies!


And of course, you're COMPLETELY ignorant of the FACT that in 2003 "our guy" requested that Congress investigate the mortgage industry and institute an OVERSIGHT program....

And of course, you're COMPLETELY ignorant of the FACT that your DEMOCRATS went ballistic over the notion of an oversight program...


Hey, would you like to see the video on youtube? It's a C-Span video, so you can see for yourself how FURIOUS your DEMOCRATS were at the notion of an oversight program.

Bleeding Heart
Bleeding Heart said: "One person's Cowardice is another person's Hero. When Bush is relegated to the dust bin of history, the shoe thrower will still be remembered. No matter the spin Bush and his fellow travelers try to put on the Iraq War, the Iraqis actually lived it."

No, sorry, empirically speaking what the Shoe Thrower did was not Brave nor was it Heroic. For all the men and women that have died to keep this country free or to free other countries from tyranny, who have thrown themselves on grenades, taken a bullet for a fellow soldier or even for the people he/she was trying to protect, IT IS AN ABSOLUTE INSULT to say that man is a hero.

He is an idiot and he will only be remembered by idiots.

This is the perfect opportunity to share with you liberals this little tidbit: Did you know that many Muslims believe that you cannot commit a sin on water? Yes, that's a fact. And Saddam and his sons and his lackeys believed that. Believed it so much in fact that they would troll high schools, pick up young girls, rape them on the lake in and around the Perfume Palace, and then kill them, because of course, they were now defiled and were not allowed to live. That is directly from an Iraqi told to my husband who is currently serving his second tour of honorable duty over there.

That is what we saved them from and most of them know that and are grateful for it. There are a few, probably Baathists and thugs, that are not that happy about it. I don't care about them.

These are things YOU need to know so that you can stop making idiotic statements. The Iraqis were NOT better under Saddam. NO WAY, NO HOW. Freedom is bought with blood. Always has been, always will be. If you are not willing to bleed for it, then you are not worthy to have it.

Roy, or Idiot
"say what you want about che but he was in the trenches fighting for what he believed in until the end.he wasn't afraid to die for it either."

So it's great that he killed innocent man, women (some of them pregnant), and children because he "fought" for what he believed in. What exactly did he believe in? I guess that he believed in tyranny and totalitarianism. Yeah, that's courageous and brave.

He was a murderer and he is hopefully burning in Hell (if there is one). And the fact that you are so morally relativistic that you can't see that is very very sad and very very scary.

I suppose the same could be said of Hitler - he fought for what he believed in - the Master Race. Or how about Stalin?

Jesus H. Christ! You people are just delusional. Che - brave. Our Founding Fathers - white bigoted hateful men.

Got it.

**Shakes head**

Bush should go back
GW should go back to Iraq one more time and hold another press conference.

Then he should publically call for this guys full pardon.

President Bush was too nice.
I must say that President Bush handled this incident with great class and dignity. If that idiot had thrown his shoe at me, I couldn't have resisted making a few wisecracks, such as:

"Don't worry. He'll never hurt me if he keeps throwing like that!"

"You'd better practice a little before you try that again. My mother can throw better than that!"

"His shoe missed me, but his foot odor nearly knocked me down!"

"You'd probably better fumigate this place. I think his Odor-Eaters have thrown up!"

you idiots -- you are just
another typical liberal socialist that refuses to take any responsibility -- your disgusting dem libs have been in control of our Congress for the last two years!!! All of the committees have been headed by Democrats, including the finacial ones, and look at the results.

The only reason they retained a majority in November's elections is because of the Obambi hysteria. After two more years of your idiots being in charge, there will be a landslide voting back to conservative politicians.

Liberals = spoiled rotten children

Why can't people be honest?
Let's face it that guy throwing shoes was exercising his freedom that we gave him. Good for him, however stupid and disrespectful it was. Freedom also means and includes the right to disagree.

Let's face another fact...stupid liberals would feel a whole lot different and make a whole host of excuses if those shoes were aimed at Obama. I would also be willing to bet some Secret Service personnel would be out of jobs as well.

While a handful of the world's population is grateful to the shoe thrower due to their hatred of Bush, hatred that knows no limits and needs medication, the rest of the thinking world knows and wants that same freedom that the shoe thrower exercised. He isn't admired as much for his courage as he is admired for his freedoms.

On a side note the shoe thrower is begging for forgiveness and apologizing. So much for his courage...

ladykrystyna
Great posts and well said.

lady or not
i don't know-how about the fire bombing of dresden?not a military target.100,000 civilian deaths.i'm sure there was pregnant women and children in there.so how do you justify that?

Lolo1
"Let's face another fact...stupid liberals would feel a whole lot different and make a whole host of excuses if those shoes were aimed at Obama. I would also be willing to bet some Secret Service personnel would be out of jobs as well."

You ain't kidding! The liberals would also insist that the shoe-thrower be prosecuted for endangering the President, and possibly for a "hate crime."

anne
simple question

would bear-stearns, lehman brothers and AIG gone under without fannie/freddie?

second, did you see 2 more (including bergs appeal) birth certificate cases thrown out by supreme court?

Bleeding Heart Liberal
"The closest approximation to his act of defiance and contempt was 20 years ago in Tienanmen Square. The sole man who stopped a column of tanks."

Only an idiot with no critical thinking skills what so ever would even begin to compare and think those two situations were even close.

Tiananmen Square was done under a communist regime...a brutal one at that. That person was facing tanks.

The shoe thrower had quite a safer environment. He wasn't facing tanks, was throwing shoes at a safe bet, and doing it in a democracy. That situation was world's apart from the one in China.

You are a prime example of feeling without any modicum of thinking involved.

Lolo1, Ken, Roy the Idiot
LOLO1 - thanks and your posts were spot on as well. Now he's begging for mercy. A coward. If he were brave, he would take the punishment because wasn't he "fighting" for something he believed in. I guess not. I guess he was just looking for 15 minutes of fame and doesn't relish the thought of spending decades in an Iraqi prison, which I'm sure, despite the growth of democracy, is NOTHING like an American prison.

KEN: EXACTLY! You hit the nail right on the head. A hate crime! LOL!

ROY: That's right, why don't you compare the fighting we had to do against the Nazis in WWII to the deliberate and intentional execution of innocent people probably for no more reason than that they were alleged "enemies of the state".

WAR is hell. And often innocents will be killed, but I'm sure we did more to avoid that than our enemies did and I know we can do more and do do more to avoid that today given technology.

So your argument is, like yourself, idiotic.

Apparently, for you, there is no just war and Hitler should have won and we'd all be speaking Deutsch and there would be no Israel (heck there'd be no Jews and wouldn't that just make the Fascist Liberals happy).

Try again.

Lolo1
"Only an idiot with no critical thinking skills what so ever would even begin to compare and think those two situations were even close."

I agree. It's the same kind of idiot who would join the Marines without realizing he might be sent into combat. "Bleeding Heart Liberal" knows what I'm talking about.

lady lady lady
lol i knew you couldn't justify it-all you did was equivocate and name call-which i expected.you need to read up on history if you are going to shoot your mouth off and act like you know what you are talking about.i didn't say i hated america or praise allah or anything like that.all i said was during war atrocities are committed on both sides.the fire bombing of dresden was an act of terror committed on the german civilian population by the raf and american air corps.even churchill disavowed it after the fact.its as simple as that.oh and i've been called an idiot by smarter people than you lol.

Re:Shoes???
Count on more than just shoes getting chuncked at us or our emissaries!! Just look for more bombings and kiddnappings and also more botched attempts are foriegn dipmolacy because look who is at the helm, a touchy feely left wing liberal who feels guilty and wants to appologize for all the wrongs the US has done to their poor culture. Can't have it both ways and this is one of those times when you better duck!!!!

roy
I have studied history and not the revisionist kind you love so well. First off it was Britain that over did it on Dresden, not America. He was getting even for the Blitz which was also the bombing of a civilian population. Second of all Dresden was home to the major factories producing the necessary goods for the Nazi's. Common military tactic practiced in every war is take out the supply lines.

When in war you gotta do what it takes to win, and most especially WWII.

Oh btw...we didn't have what is now called smart bombs during WWII.

Unchristianlib #129 asks AGAIN: "would

bear-stearns, lehman brothers and AIG gone under without fannie/freddie?"

Who knows, but what IS your point???

You said "simple question?"

And now a second???

"... 2 more (including bergs appeal) birth certificate cases thrown out by supreme court?"

Yup! Again, what IS your point???

But here's the thing. Bozo Obama did himself NO FAVOR by not providing adequate proof, to "satisfy" the MANY, MANY, MANY who still have doubt... and there are hundreds of thousands...

Just as the Supreme Court did Bozo Obama NO FAVOR by not at least hearing one of the cases.

Bozo Obama will have a four year term, with grave questions, and a pall and a shadow over him, and that's NOT what this country needs right now.

We need a president whom we can trust... whether or not we like him or voted for him, but a president we can TRUST.

And, not only has Bozo has done nothing to gain any trust (except for those who blindly voted for him) but he's obviously gone OUT OF HIS WAY, at GREAT EXPENSE, to DEMONSTRATE just how UNTRUSTWORTHY he is.

And, he's got NO ONE to blame, but HIMSELF.

And, remember when Bonehead Biden warned us of the "test" that he promised would come in the first six months of Bozo's term??? Remember how Bonehead said that Bozo would NEED US.. as in we Americans to stand with him.... Ain't gonna happen! And he's got no one but himself to blame.

To bad! Bozo shot himself in the foot with that one! :-(

Bush Fires Back
BUSH CHALLENGES IRAQI SHOE THROWER TO A CONTEST. read more at, http://stopthepresses2.blogspot.com


To Lady K
You state: These are things YOU need to know so that you can stop making idiotic statements. The Iraqis were NOT better under Saddam. NO WAY, NO HOW. Freedom is bought with blood. Always has been, always will be. If you are not willing to bleed for it, then you are not worthy to have it.

Speaking as a mother with a son and son-in-law (1 tour in Iraq) in the military, I agree with your statement. I also agree that in most ways Iraq is better today than under Saddam.

However, we, as a country, were never given the opportunity to decide if we wanted to risk our sons and daughters to make Iraq a democracy. There are many countries in the world that may be a better place if they were a democracy. Their leaders are tyrants, like Saddam.
A whole new debate could be started by trying to determine if Bush would have had the congressional support and the support of the American people had he merely told the truth about why we needed to attack Iraq. Alas, we will never know.

The result does not justify the means.

As for the shoe throwing incident, I am more concerned about the lack of reaction from the SS. I would definitely have those agents relieved of their Presidential duties.

robert #134: Yup! In spite of the fact

that Bonehead Joe Biden warned us, "Mark my words...." that America's enemies would test Barack Obama with an international crisis within six months if he's elected president.

And they voted him into the White House anyway!

Go figure!

Assuming we'll recover from this crisis, we can all start emailing "Thank you" notes to each and every person who voted for Bozo Obama.


P.S. I'm sure ACORN has ALL the email addresses.


Stacey
"A whole new debate could be started by trying to determine if Bush would have had the congressional support and the support of the American people had he merely told the truth about why we needed to attack Iraq."

Bush based his claims on the intelligence data that he had. Many Democrats affirmed his data and voted for the war. If Bush is guilty, then they must share his guilt.

Stacey
"However, we, as a country, were never given the opportunity to decide if we wanted to risk our sons and daughters to make Iraq a democracy. There are many countries in the world that may be a better place if they were a democracy. Their leaders are tyrants, like Saddam.
A whole new debate could be started by trying to determine if Bush would have had the congressional support and the support of the American people had he merely told the truth about why we needed to attack Iraq. Alas, we will never know."


Sorry but that simply isn't true. Your Congress voted for it which means we did have an opportunity to decide. If you didn't contact your Congressmen or Senator, or any Congressmen and Senators and communicate with them, the fault lies with you. And yes we were told the truth and many can't accept the truth unfortunately.

I thank you and your sons for your sacrifices. You gave freedom to millions and that means something. Freedom to the ME is nothing more than a concept. Your family and many like you gave that concept reality. You also showed the world that we mean what we say, especially when it comes to freedom.

Lolo1 and Roy
Thanks Lolo1 - that is exactly the problem. I don't know how old Roy is but he was likely educated in one of those new-fangled liberal schools where the West and America are always the bad guys.

Roy: I can't help but name call someone who thinks that maybe, just maybe, Che was an okay guy. Seriously, YOU need to read some non-revisionist history. And go to Miami and tell that to the Cuban-Americans who risked their lives to get out of that hell hole. Talk to Holocaust survivors. You could have talked to my grandparents who were taken from their families in Poland to work on farms for the Nazis.

BTW: Did Churchill (or Roosevelt) ever feel sorry for screwing over Poland after WWII? I sure the heck hope so.

Stacey
We went into Iraq b/c pretty much every intelligence agency on the planet believed that Saddam had WMD and this was a serious threat after 9/11 - Saddam would either use them or sell them to the highest bidder. That's why we went in. Saddam spent 12 years playing the West for a fool and it was time he paid the price. Yes regime change was part of that.

Do I think we should have waited until Afghanistan was more under control? Yes. Do I think we were unprepared for the aftermath of Shock and Awe? Yes. But I still think it was fine that we went in there. Saddam was the squeaky wheel at that time. If he had simply obeyed the rules, he'd probably still be there (unfortunately for the Iraqi people).

I thank your son and son-in-law for the service and I thank you for your sacrifice as a military family member. May God Bless you and your family.

Shoe Thrower and MSNBC
I am never dissapointed by the crap that shows up on msnbc, between Keith ( Gods gift oh sorry I mean Athiests gift to news reporting,) and Mr. tingles up his legs Chris Mathews. and that great talent Rachel Maddow, the shoe throwing incident was such a high point in all of their brodcasts. I am an American, I am for my country, I am for my president, thats the difference between me and alot of dems, I will support my new president, i will respect my new president, even if i don't agree with him, i am so tired of the left and their disrespect of our country and our president.

If it was Obama
O M Gosh - the whole press corp would have stopped, indeed if not the whole world, to mourn this tragedy. Too bad it wasn't Obama & someone hurling his MIA birth certificate.

In any event this is outrageous. I say from this moment forward have Iraq pay us back all of the millions we spent for the service of eliminating Saddam for them, giving them hope of some semblence of life, literacy, jobs and rights. And let us not forget punative fees for the deaths of so many of our heroes for their...dogs.

What a slap in the face
What a slap in the face for some A-hole reporter to throw a shoe at the man who single-handedly led the movement to free the Iraqi people, even after being bashed by his own citizens, political party, and just about everyone else. Bush handled it perfectly, just as he has handld much of the bs US press written about him over the years. Additionally, what an insult to every American troop who died in order to free these people. Ironically, this poses as a good argument as to why we should not have invaded Iraq. Let some of these ungrateful SOB's go through the woodchoppers. Then again, I suppose most of the Iraqi people aren't so ungrateful... still... how disheartening

Well If the shoe fits....
so to speak...

While the shoe throwing incident was highly disrespectful, It metaphorically is a fitting
end to the Bush Presidency and his legacy...

oh my god..what am i saying..lmao

btw: for what reason would any Iraqi throw his shoes at Prez-elect Obama?

You "idiot"
Poor "you idiot" - got his/her knickers all in a twist over man-made "GOREbal" warming. Do you recall the global COOLING scare of 1970s to mid-1980s? No? Newsweek had an article all about it in 1985. Just switch the word "cooling" to "warming" and VOILA! You have yourself a new scam to scare the wits out of gullible fools like you.

If Al Gore really believes the crap he's peddling then why doesn't he actually practice what he preaches? Why is he living like a frickin' king, making millions, living in sprawling homes, flying in jets, leaving the limos idling while he gives his $$$ speeches if he declares the "debate is over" and we've only got 10 years left? We're supposed to live like paupers while he lives in his ivory towers!?

The guy is a big fat lying hypocrit! He can take his global warming "theories" and put it where the sun don't shine!

Leftist Angle
"btw: for what reason would any Iraqi throw his shoes at Prez-elect Obama?"

I'm sure the terrorists in Iraq love him.

lolo and lady
lol i went back and looked and no where did i see myself say that che was an "ok guy".i did say that i respect the guy who's willing to fight for what he believes in instead of sitting back and ordering other people to do his dirty work.for example,i can admire and respect some brilliant german tank commanders like rommel and guderian while still despising hitler.or general giap the nva general.doesn't mean i think ho chi mihn was a great guy.oh and just to remind you,the military and factory targets on the outskirts of dresden were not targeted and left untouched during the raid.

Left Angle sputters: "for what reason

would any Iraqi throw his shoes at Prez-elect Obama?"

Gee, I don't know, LA... but the bigger question is WHY, as Bonehead Biden warned us,
"Mark my words...." that America's enemies would test Barack Obama with an international crisis within six months if he's elected president?

But compare "The violence-hating al-Zeidi, according to reports, displays a picture of the "revolutionary" Che Guevara on his wall. Cuban emigre Humberto Fontova, author of "Exposing the Real Che Guevara," credits Guevara with 14,000 executions. Witnesses say this icon for many radicals personally murdered hundreds -- including children and pregnant women." throwing a SHOE....

. . . . . . . . to . . . . . . .

"... America's enemies would test Barack Obama with an international crisis within six months if he's elected president..."


Gee, and I thought the WORLD was so excited about Bozo Obama being elected!!!

Huh? Guess not.

and another thing ladies
remember 2 things-you heard to the victors go the spoils-well the victors write the history too.and remember what a whitney brown said.don't confuse the past with history.the past actually happened.history is just what someone wrote down.

Roy
If you want to "admire" a great tank commander, that's kind of understandable. I know some people like to read about and "admire" such things. Whatever.

But Che Guevara was no "great tank commander" or great military strategist. He was a THUG and nothing more. You were the one who used him as an example of somebody "fighting for what he believe in", not me. And you never explained what Che believed in that made him so great for fighting for it.

So it sounds to me like you just picked a name out of a hat, maybe because that movie is coming out. Can't wait to see that one! NOT!

lady
you missed my whole point.never mind lol

ok one more time
i was trying to draw some distinctions between castro and che.castro was a country club communist whereas che was more of a populist than he ever was a communist.kind of like the neocons in charge now contrast with the eisenhower's and audie murphy's and chesty puller's and alvin yorks and the millions of others who were willing to put their money where their mouth was.

Roy
Sorry, that last post did not help. Castro is a thug and a murderer and so is Che. While Bush may have never served, neither did Clinton and neither did Obama. Our country is not always "at war" and not every politician served in the military. Despite my respect for service in the military, it's not a requirement of every politician I vote for or one that I would admire.

Che put is money where his mouth is - he wanted Communism so bad he was willing to kill innocent people do it. See what I mean. You can't compare him with the Neocons unless you honestly believe that Bush is a murderer who cares nothing for anything except power; same with Cheney or any of the other alleged neocons. Nope sorry. See in this country on Inauguration Day the old President happily steps down, hands the reigns over and goes back to living as private a life as he can.

Bush didn't lie us into a war. Bush is not out to kill every last Muslim on the planet. He isn't rounding up every American that disagrees with him and making them disappear.

Yes, he didn't serve in Vietnam, but neither did Clinton or Gore and again, I don't see how that has anything to do with sending our boys and girls to war if it becomes necessary. If our Founding Fathers thought that a military career was a prerequisite for being President, it would be in the Constitution.

Yup, that last post didn't help you at all.

lady
well i can see i'm just banging my head against the wall trying to debate someone who thinks that having an R after your name automatically makes you a great man.i'll let you go drift off to fantasyland.

Roy
Talk about pigeonholing me. I did not say Bush was a great man or that any man or woman with an R after their name was great. I take people as individuals and some Ds have been good and some Rs have been good; and some of them have been bad. I do not WORSHIP my leaders, as some worship Obama.

And I'm the one banging my head against a wall to make you understand that your example was a BAD ONE. I get what you are trying to say: walk the walk, just don't talk the talk. But Che is not a good example of that because he was nothing more than a murderer. He didn't fight against other soldiers; he killed innocent people.

Why is that so hard to understand? We are talking about Heroes here are we not? The only people I know that think Che is a hero are those stupid people on the Left that think anything anti-American, regardless of the source, is a good thing. Again, go to Miami and tell the Cuban-Americans that Che is a hero and see if you get out alive.

And would you be so glib about this if the guy had thrown the shoe at Obama? You sound like someone who thinks anyone with a D after their name is great and anyone with an R is the Devil Incarnate.

Prove me wrong.

Roy
You say that you admire Che because he was willing to fight and die for his cause.

Do you admire or respect the 19 terrorists who flew the planes into the buildings and killed 3,000 innocent civilians?

They, too, were willing to die for their cause.

Just wonderful
And for this piece of garbage the United States spilled blood of our best men and the treasure, too!

Go figure: I always thought the Frenchmen are the most ungrateful people on Earth!

never said that
pat buchanan has some good ideas.i like hegel's views on some issues.arlen specter isn't too bad sometimes.no i don't admire or respect the the suicide bombers on 9/11.anyone who's stupid enough to think that they have 40 virgins waiting for them in the afterlife doesn't deserve respect or admiration.che wasn't in that class.you have to consider the circumstances of his life to appreciate why he did what he did and the misery and suffering he saw touring south america.he was a physician who treated people in leper colonies when no else would.if the peasants needed medical services he set up clinics.he taught them to read and write.was he a brutal guerilla commander?yeah.but i've never seen the reports of him executing women and children.i'd be very skeptical of the one guy in the cuban exile community.i mean anyone who draws accolades from both nelson mandela and jean paul sartre can't be all bad.but you can take my opinion with a grain of salt.and i'm sure you will.

Throwing shoes
We seem to allow our Presidents to be insulted by the whole world and say and do nothing. I bet though if someone threw a shoe at your Dad, brother, uncle, or friend you (meaning the American public) would be on them like white on rice. Our President represents the American People, so instead of laughing at President Bush,consider that shoe was being thrown at YOU.

Toppling statue not by Marines
The U.S. Marines did not topple the statue of Saddam. They provided some items that allowed a group of Iraqi to do it.


Husker
Nice to see that YOU understand how stupid Roy's statement was.

Let's see if Roy comes back with anything intelligent!

(Not holding my breath.)

Shoe throwers of the world unite.
Muntadhar al-Zeidi should be forced to take a course in marksmanship before he's ever allowed to wear another pair of shoes. He's an embarrassment to shoe-throwers everywhere.

roy
"che wasn't in that class.you have to consider the circumstances of his life to appreciate why he did what he did and the misery and suffering he saw touring south america."


Che grew up in a wealthy family and was raised and educated in France. furthermore mass slaughtering and executions does nothing to solve poverty. Your moral relativism is astounding.

roy
"oh and just to remind you,the military and factory targets on the outskirts of dresden were not targeted and left untouched during the raid."


Blatant lie. My grandfather was one of many bombers on that mission.

Fly shoes don't bother me
What disturbs me most about this incident is the media. The President of the United States is assaulted on foreign soil and the media makes light. When Al Zawahiri called Barack Obama a "House Negro," the media donned combat gear and seriously studied maps of the Pakistan border.

There is a virtual media buffer between the people and the government. It deflects any information that that can be harmful to the left and it amplifies everything that ridicules or humiliates the right.

It is well past time for allowing the media to be the instrument of dropping the next shoe in their incestuous campaign to be a political force. They may have first amendment rights but they have no right to deceive the people.

They might think they are a "shoo-in" when it comes to what they want us to know but it is time to give these propagandists the boot.

YOU DONT THROW SHOES AT OUR PRESIDENT!
.

You go!
Lolo1 - Roy is astounding isn't he? I guess he took Jonathan Swift at his word in A Modest Proposal - we'll cure poverty by killing the poor! Great idea!

DanNV - that's classic (the Obama, "House Negro", map of Pakistan thing). ROTFLMAO! How very very true!

Cavell: Americans are damned if they do and damned if they don't. We help, we don't help. Everyone has a gripe. Because they are jealous of what we have and what they can't seem to accomplish themselves. We saved their butts in two major wars and they are still complaining.

Yes, we've made some misjudgments, but why is their response always some form of violence. That's what they do with their freedom. It's not that I think you can't do that, but why is that the first move by the Left or the Complainers - I don't like it so I'll have a temper tantrum instead of trying to make things better by getting involved and being productive. If they took all that energy for the negative and did something positive, WOW, what they could accomplish!

Cavell
"Look, we had the world with us on Afghanistan. Even the French anted up. Iraq wiped out all that goodwill, because it was widely seen - whether this is true or not, and I personally think it is - as an entirely optional war. I don't think it was purely motivated by oil, or revenge, but I do think it was a remarkably stupid decision. Again, it's not jealousy that motivates the dissatisfaction, but the presumption that we act only for ourselves; Iraq morphed into a humanitarian argument, yet we stay out of other, worse humanitarian crises, and the world cries foul. We can't be everywhere at once, but on the other hand, there is an undeniable degree of self-interest in our foreign policy."


OF COURSE THERE IS AN UNDENIABLE DEGREE OF SELF INTEREST IN OUR FOREIGN POLICY AND IT IS JUST THE SAME IN EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY OF THE WORLD!!!!!! WHOSE INTEREST SHOULD OUR FOREIGN POLICY BE FOR? BTW....DID YOU MISS THE OIL FOR FOOD SCANDAL? DID YOU OVER SLEEP OR WHAT? YEAH WE CUT INTO A LOT OF PEOPLE'S UNDER THE TABLE MONEY YOU FOOL INCLUDING FRANCE AND GERMANY.

Good Grief man cop a clue. I can't even believe you typed that above statement with a straight face.

The left is going to be extremely grateful to Bush one day as Iran heats up. Those bases in Iraq will prove to be extremely valuable, and the bottom line that is the real reason for going into Iraq.

Cavell
"Where we utterly fail is marketing that self-interest as global interest. I'm all for strong, aggressive anti-terrorist foreign policy, and you'd have a hard time classifying me as a military hater, but we -do- have other strengths. This is too important an issue to only rely on one. We absolutely have got to do a better job of selling ourselves as more than self-serving, and like it or not, President Bush wasn't at all good at that."



Oh and one other thing...the liberal press and Hollywood are to blame for the bad press. Go visit some different countries and you will see just how much of an effect they actually have on our image abroad. Nothing but a bunch of mindless selfish reprobates who couldn't keep their act together if their life depended on it.

Elder
Larry, I believe we all know the answer to that.The Florsheim Flinger would most likely NOT made it out of the venue under his own power. If he had not already assumed room temperature,he would have been hooked up to some serious amperage,carved on a bit,more than likely flogged a tad,forced to rape his daughter,then allowed to assume room temp.

To Lady K and Lolo
"We went into Iraq b/c pretty much every intelligence agency on the planet believed that Saddam had WMD and this was a serious threat after 9/11"

There were many reasons Bush etal (Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld, etc) wanted to invade Iraq. WMD was not one of them. We were lied to.

No, many intelligent agencies on the planet did NOT support the WMD argument. Even within our own intelligence community, there were those that said there were no WMD (Wilson, WMD inspector Ritter, etc).

Paul Craig Robert, former secretary of the treasury under Reagan and an editor of the Wall Street Journal wrote a very interesting article about the reasons for the war. You can find it here:
http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts06082007.html


clyde
"Larry, I believe we all know the answer to that.The Florsheim Flinger would most likely NOT made it out of the venue under his own power. If he had not already assumed room temperature,he would have been hooked up to some serious amperage,carved on a bit,more than likely flogged a tad,forced to rape his daughter,then allowed to assume room temp."



HAHAHAHA!!! "Florsheim Flinger" is absolutely priceless! Thanks for the laugh and Merry Christmas!

Robert
One post to you...STFU moron and you are unwanted and incredibly stupid.

Stacey
WMD's were found and regardless it was a chance we could not afford to take. It was less about what he had and more about his capabilities. Don't quote the inept, stupid, worthless weapons inspectors to me. They are a complete waste of time and money. Need proof? See Iran.

To Lolo
You state: WMD's were found...

And Saddam caused 9/11, Obama is an Arab, and Santa Claus will climb down your chimney.

and you continued: ...regardless it was a chance we could not afford to take.

Only because that was what we were led to believe. That is my nice reply.



Stacey
So you can't convince me so you get stupid....nice.

Never said Saddam caused 9/11, Osama not Obama is an Arab, and I am too old for Santa.

BTW...your link was stupid and propaganda.

Get over yourself and quit walking through life dazed and confused. For pete's sake quit slurping the Kool Aid.

This is my nice reply.

Stacey
Oh and idiot what was that yellow cake they found in Iraq anyway....Hmmm????

What Would Liberal Media Think If....
How would the liberal media handle a protest of 50 million Americans sending their old shoes to the White House to Obama or the U.S. Congress - Would they handle that news item in the same way that they handled the shoes thrown at a U.S. President - President Bush? Good grief, since when did Americans stop defending our country and our U.S. President when someone tries to harm them - the U.S. President represents the American people - and every American citizen should be outraged that that disrespectful foreigner threatened our U.S. President when he threw shoes at him which means that he threw shoes at every American citizen who spent their tax dollars and whose citizens died for their freedom so they could be free them from a tyrannical murdering leader at our expense. So, why would Obama want to cut our defense spending when we are hated by those around the world who threaten to wipe us off the face of the map?

Here's a shoe to Obama!
I wish someone would have thrown a shoe right in obama's lying face when he said he never heard wright's hateful vile rant against America, or Phlager's racist comments about white people, or Farakan's racist rants about whites and jews. No he never heard any of it just like he hasn't had anything to do with any of the thugs in chicago. Dream on all you nut jobs. Obama is a total fake. Change huh? The clinton's entourage is all around him because he has no experience just like his counterpart in Massachusetts, Deval Patrick. He is hiring smart people regardless of giving jobs to minorities because he doesn't want it to show he doesn't know what the hell he is doing either, but I guarantee you they will both be spending lots and lots of money. Wait until you see the inauguation or should I say coronation!!!!!!
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.