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Thursday, August 21, 2008
Larry Elder :: Townhall.com Columnist
McCain vs. Obama: Showdown at Saddleback
by Larry Elder
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Oh, no, not another "town hall" meeting.

Or at least, that's how I first reacted when I learned Rev. Rick Warren of Saddleback Church intended to host an Obama-versus-McCain town hall forum at the evangelist's California church.

But the rules, this time at least, seemed intriguing. Warren intended to ask each candidate one-on-one questions for one hour, with the rival offstage unable to hear questions and answers. The second candidate would then come out and answer the same questions in the same order.

Obama, via a coin toss, went first, and answered the often simple, straightforward questions carefully or, as many in the mainstream media later reported, in a "nuanced" way. And then came McCain. He came across as funnier, more personable, more thoughtful, more specific and, for the most part, more direct.

Some highlights. Warren asked the candidates to define "rich."

Obama: "If you are making $150,000 a year or less as a family, then you're middle class, or you may be poor. But 150 (thousand dollars) down, you're basically middle class. Obviously, it depends on region and where you're living. I don't know what housing prices are doing lately. I would argue that if you're making more than 250,000 (dollars), then you're in the top 3, 4 percent of this country. You're doing well. Now, these things are all relative, and I'm not suggesting that everybody who is making over 250,000 (dollars) is living on easy street.

"But the question that I think we have to ask ourselves is, if we believe in good schools, if we believe in good roads, if we want to make sure that kids can go to college, if we don't want to leave a mountain of debt for the next generation, then we've got to pay for these things. They don't come for free. I believe it is irresponsible intergenerationally for us to invest or for us to spend $10 billion a month on a war and not have a way of paying for it. That, I think, is unacceptable. Under the approach I'm taking, if you make $150,000 or less, you will see a tax cut. If you're making $250,000 a year or more, you're going to see a modest increase."

McCain: "I don't want to take any money from the rich. I want everybody to get rich. I don't believe in class warfare or redistribution of wealth. Let's keep taxes low. Let's give every family in America a $7,000 tax credit for every child they have. Let's give them a $5,000 refundable tax credit to go out and get the health insurance of their choice. Let's not have the government take over the health care system in America.

"And, my friend, it was not taxes that mattered in America in the last several years. It was spending. Spending got completely out of control. We spent money in a way that mortgaged our kids' future. My friends, we spent $3 million of your money to study the DNA of bears in Montana. Now, I don't know if that was a paternity issue or a criminal issue. But the point is, it was $3 million of your money.

"So it doesn't matter, really, what my definition of 'rich' is because I don't want to raise anybody's taxes. I really don't. In fact, I want to give working Americans a better shot at having a better life."

Iraq? Obama called his decision to oppose the war "difficult," given -- at the time -- the popularity of the president. McCain said: "Not long ago in Baghdad, al-Qaida took two young women who were mentally disabled and put suicide vests on them, sent them into a marketplace and, by remote control, detonated those suicide vests. If that isn't evil, you have to tell me what is. And we're going to defeat this evil. And the central battleground, according to David Petraeus and Osama bin Laden, is Baghdad, Mosul, Basra and Iraq. And we are winning and we are succeeding, and our troops will come home with honor and with victory, and not in defeat."

The following day, on "Meet the Press," NBC's Andrea Mitchell said some "Obama people" suggested that McCain heard the questions in advance because he "seemed so well-prepared."

Indeed, McCain did seem better prepared -- to lead this country, that is.

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About The Author
Larry Elder is a syndicated radio talk show host and best-selling author. His latest book, "What's Race Got to Do with It?" is available now.
 
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©Creators Syndicate
The nuances of a pay grade.
I wonder if neighborhood watch coordinator is above the pay grade of this community organizer.

Rubber galoshes...
Ya need a pretty tall pair of 'em to wade throught that pile of mess Obama was spewing. ...a pretty tall pair...

I am SO FREAKING SICK of hearing both

democrats and republicans telling me that they alone know how to 'fix" the economy. At least democrats are honest and will tell you they're going to raise taxes.

Republicans, on the other hand, are playing some devious schizophrenic shell games. Out of the one side of their mouth they'll tell you they're for "small government", yes!, "limited government", they all run elections like this, and with each progressive presidency, the budget grows progressively deeper and out of control.

It finally exploded under GWB. Mostly from the unnecessaary wars.

I don't want ANY dems or republicans or any type of conservative smiling at me and (oh, sincerely!) saying they're for "small government"...THAT ANIMAL DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE, even if you wanted it. Both parties have so gamed the system it is now irreversible to go BACKWARD and operate on a small scale... And, oh, God, the neocons have additional billions and billions in future interventions money already added up and spent - in theory, in their heads! Our tax dollars! Keep those Israel Lobby hustlers at bay!

CLUELESS JOHN McCAIN A "LEADER"?

How can anyone seriously tout John McCain as the man to lead our country when he says that "the central battleground, according to David Petraeus and Osama bin Laden, is Baghdad, Mosul, Basra and Iraq."

Is McCain not aware that in the same sentence as Gen. David Petraeus, McCain used as one of his authoritative sources the mass murderer -- bin Laden --universally believed to be the force behind the 9/11 attacks which killed 3,000 on our soil?

Why has John McCain failed to hold Pres. Bush accountable for the President's failure to get Osama bin Laden whom Pres. Bush post-9/11 vowed to get repeatedly "dead or alive."

Today, in 2008, AFTER SEVEN YEARS, mass murderer bin Laden is STILL at large, STILL recruiting terrorists and STILL threatening to annihilate the United States. And STILL being quoted as an authoritative source by clueless John McCain.

How many...
conservatives have had to tamp down their conservative message to win votes? Name one. Anyone. I'm curious. Or is it just liberals that try to deceive voters into believing that they are not as liberal as they really are?

I have seen liberal politicians- both Dems and Reps- try to redefine themselves- toward conservatism- in order to garner more support, but never have I seen it play out in the other direction. Can someone out there help me by articulating what you believe the reason for this is? Or show me where I'm wrong on my assertion.

Now you have to use a REAL conservative to counter my argument. John McCain won't do.

Campaign slogans galore
"...we've got to pay for these things--they don't come for free"

"We have to make SACrifices" --Mrs. Obama

There's your change, folks. In Latin now please, for the new Presidential seal!

Un-necessary gov't depts.
I believe President McCain should create a NEW Cabinet position, Secretary of Common Sense, with full power to examine and eliminate Departments of the federal gov't based on usefullness, efficacy, and cost effectiveness. My choice for this position is Dr. Thomas Sowell, renowned economist, author, and social critic.
We could completely eliminate Depts. of Education, Commerce, Energy, Housing and Urban Development; and radically scale back Agriculture, Health and Human Services, Justice, and Transportation.
All we really need beyond Social Security, Medicare, and Veterans Administration are Defense, Treasury and State. Good roads, common defense and sound money, in other words. Otherwise let those money wasting elitist bureaucrats go get real, productive employment. Oh, and SLASH the budget for Senate and Congressional staffs & expenses by about 75% ! NO U.N. membership, no government paid foreign aid, no Nat'l Endowment for the Arts, no sugar/ethanol/milk/ subsidies, no F.H.A., no Fannie Mae, nada! Let P.B.S. sink or swim on private contributions, and outlaw Congress' "franking" priviledges.

Barack Obama
is qualified to be President because he is old enough and he is a native born citizen. All of the other stuff about him is just icing on the cake. O-bam-a! O-bam-a! O-bam-a! O-bam-a!

disclaimer
[There is a real contest in which you can submit Latin phrases for Obama's campaign.]

Great column!

Who is Rich
It frustrates me to constantly hear people talk of who is rich by looking at their income. You don't measure wealth using the Income Statement. You measure wealth from the Balance Sheet. An individual with millions of assets and no liabilities and little or no income is rich. Similarly a person with a million dollar income but who owes millions more than he owns is insolvent. He is not rich. What is constantly attempted by those who are so concerned about the rich is to divide people and to attempt to sell the notion that as a wage earner making $40K or $50K per year I am unfairly treated. No, not necessarily, I may be richer than that guy with the six figure salary. Look at my Balance Sheet. That guy with the six figure salary owes me nothing.

Clueless???
According to the authoritative source, Adolf Hitler, the battleground which he defined was Europe and North Africa.

Did I just say that Adolf Hitler was being quoted.

No! In the same way if I say OBL has defined the battleground I have not said he said anything to be quoted. But, you wouldn't get that would you?

"Today after SEVEN years...."

Ever heard of D.B. Cooper? Or, thousands of other desperados who completely got away with their crimes. And those without the resources of someone like OBL.

Maybe you need B.O. to explain these concepts since he is such a wonderful public speaker and intellectual superman.

"Above my paygrade"???????
"57 states"??????

I and millions of Christians have prayed for B.O, to have a case of motormouth. And, he doesn't know how to shut up. Ain't God great!

Recovering Liberal

Keep talking B.O.

WHAT IS RICH?
To those of you who have never visited New York City, San Francisco, Anchorage, or Honolulu: let me tell you that it takes far more money to survive in any of these places than it does elsewhere in the United States. I lived in Honolulu for 25 years (a major fiscal accomplishment of my life). When I moved away in 1999, milk was selling for $6.50/gallon. For 17 of those years, I could not afford both a car and a house on a professor's salary (I rode mopeds). I was not (excessively) poor, but I certainly was not rich. As soon as I moved to the Mainland, my dollars went about twice as far and I felt much richer with the same amount of money.

Compare real estate prices in Alaska with those in Alabama and you'll find that you can buy two houses in the latter for the price of one in the former. Rich is relative. To say that a certain dollar figure is constant across these 50 (not 57) states is uninformed and just plain wrong. I'm sure this comes up among congressmen who represent widely-varying economic situations. Meanwhile, politicians like the Messiah just roll numbers off as they come to mind. Mrs. Messiah pays $600 for a pair of earrings, and just can't make her paycheck stretch over the ballet lessons. There is an enormous disconnect in evidence here.

McCain Was Steller, Obama Was Okay
Obama was fairly good, he did okay. McCain was steller and presidential. There was a world of difference in the qualifications and life experiences each have. Obama sidestepped answering questions directly and gave murky answers. McCain was at ease and gave direct, knowledgeable answers, and it was obvious he knew what he was talking about. The main damage Obama did to himself was his stupid response to the question about when life begins. I think that since Obama has been criticized for being arrogant and elitist, it's possible he thought that answering "..above my pay grade" would sound humble. Something like, "only God can answer that question." It back-fired big time. How Obama has voted on abortion issues is public knowledge; he lied when he answered about bill regarding medical attention to babies who survive abortion. We measure other people on their position on abortion. Pro-lifers have mercy and pro-choicers are selfish and heartless. Obama truly has no compassion; that was made very clear during the debate.

McCain is obviously much wiser and better prepared to lead America through troubled waters. With Russia on the rise again, I'd trust McCain at the helm through the storm that may be ahead for us.


John McCain
carries all the answers inside his head and gut.
Cheat - the man has shown his character to the American people over many years - and is out there saying what he believes - he carries all of his experience and knowledge of world politics in his head and heart - he does not need notes, teleprompter, or whatever - he is who he is.
Gets me though - how would anything McCain knew ahead of time - be the cause of Obama doing so poorly. Obama has no reservoir of knowledge or his own principles to draw upon - there is nothing there.

"Rich" Wasn't About Dollars
I thought that McCain was talking about being rich was more like: a rich man who has a family who loves him, owns his own home, has a job that challenges him and pays him fairly, has loyal friends, has many assorted interests and hobbies and is free to pursue them all. We are ALL rich unless the government starts taxing everything; tax stifles the economy which trickles down to all businesses and Americans. Unless the government impedes us, entrepreneurs and inventors are creating new and exciting things. Americans are rich with opportunity and McCain wants everyone to have a huge slice of the American pie. McCain didn't want to take any thing away from us was what I came away with.

obama demeanor
Afterward it was inside out seeing all Obama demeanor. This black boy has no direction that's why he spake venom at every chance he can. I'm not absolute sure where McCain stand on abortion. Don't toss around this issue. At least I know where Hussin Obama stands. I have my reservation on this one issue, other issues are no brainer to me. NO abortion allow, period. bob

tax dollars
the poor dims constantly cry they don't have enough tax dollars to spend

Sincece johnson passed his great society legislation some $44 trillion has been spent on various entitlement programs.

The country will send some $700 billion to opec to purchase oil while the dims in general and the red nazi, land deal reid and b hussein stand opposed to seeking domestic sources.

B hussein has plans to send the un, the single most corrupt agency on the planet some $860 billion in his stupid notion to end world poverty. Exactly why are the dims pushing this expenditure when the un remains nothing more than a failed club for various despots who hate the things america stands for.

But the messiah straight out of the communist handbook wants to take the profits of a legal publicly held corp, the oil industry so he can redistribute them in a manner he approves of.

But the b hussein plan of hating capitalism while thinking he can tax and spend america is according to economists simply unworkable, but that doesn't stop him from spreading the fantasy as a way to grow america

But even worse for every problem the messiah sees in america he overs a govt solution. At what point will the dims realize govt is the problem and not the answer.

And still the dims maintain hope and change under the "one" is what america needs.





Saddleback Forum
Since McCain won at the forum, the democrats now claim that he cheated!! Beyond this ridiculous statement -- as parsed by Andrae Mitchell -- is something the press has missed or does not want to bring up -- the fact that, in truth, they are calling the minister a liar when he states that McCain was in a room where he could not have heard Obama. A lot of our information --and lies -- come from the press. Enough!!!

Saddleback
Listening to the forum Barack Obambi remids me of John Kerry in 2004 his answers to every question was kind of on both sides of the issues and talked a lot like a snob and talked down to us that is what Barack sounds like? Like the stupid notion of pumping our tires will help with the energy crisis is ridiculous. John McCain was very decisive and direct with his answer and you can tell he has a true core of beliefs. That is what a President should be always even if I do not like what he is saying but I know he is doing what is right for the Country.

Bob, I mean Will, or LovelsEqual
You have to be kidding with that post. This sounds like the militants posting again under other names as they are prone to do. Bob, Will, whatever your name is, give it a break.

Will on Israel
"Keep those Israel lobbyists at bay."

Yep, that's right willee, boy. Only one democracy in the Middle East and you want to abandon it. Which side should we choose? Syria? Iran? Saudi Arabia? Hezbollah? Hamas? Fata?

C'mon you can name one, can't you?

Odds
Chances of winning the presidency.

Liberal Democrat 45%

Rino 42%

Republican 13% (just in case Romney is VP)

Scumbag, clueless,warmongering, hypocritical right wing conservatives DNQ (did not qualify)

Better luck next time! Actually just gfy.

The Rape of McAmnesty's Daughter
Don't you remember during the primary campaign a reporter asked McAmnesty what he would do if his daughter were raped (say, by an illegal alien he has let in, as so many American women have), and got pregnant? He said they would seriously discuss abortion! Now he goes to the evangelicals and says the opposite! All the time searching for an abortionist running mate! Do as I say, not as I do! This guy is a liberal Democrat who tried hard to be Kerry's vice president. McSlickTalk is simply lying to groups that want to vote for a real Republican.

And when it comes to spending, McCostCutter, don't forget the $2 TRILLION you borrowed from the Chinese Communists to finance your war. Now you guarantee that "I'm gonna draft ya, ya little jerk!" and "more wars, many more wars!" How are you going to pay for those, Econ Major? Sell most of America to the Chinese under your North American Union scheme? That is TREASON, Mister Neo-con Globalist Sellout!


hmmm
Obama, "we got to pay for these things, they don,t come for free",

Hey i agree with that and guess what though you want to have even much higher income taxes and socialized med. Hmm how to pay for that, oh yes income taxes out the yazooo. Don,t expect my vote idiot.
How about then telling seniors out there that SS, Medicare and Medicaid are going to have to be looked at on cutting back and then seeing if Congress can,t raise the retirement age to 72. Any takers? OH that is right seniors might go crazy and "how dare you take away what i want". OH yes just screw away the young generation.

Obama is a political travesty
The Democrats have lost control of themselves. Hillary should be the nominee. Obama is a thinly disguised politician cultivated from the political horrors of South side Chicago. He is a Muslim in Christian clothing, a black nationalist with an inherent Black Theology belief, a man of very limited depth except as being a political organizer and as a college instructor and an undisguised career as an elected Senator.Would blacks be objective in considering McCain? Of course not. Should whites by objective in considering Obama? Yes, but not on the basis of race but in a true assessment of his credentials and worthiness to lead. Saddleback proved the point!

Lefty Trolls Are Jerks
PatN, you lefty trolls are such jerks.

McCain trounced Obama in the Saddleback forum becaue McCain has a depth of experience, knowledge and values that easily makes him the correct choice for President in 2008.

Otis
Sorry Otis the party of count all the votes threw out The Great State of Florida. Hillary would be the candidate if not for that.

Substance Counts
If you want style, Obama always wins. But America needs substance and that why McCain blew him out of his shorts.
http://www.edmartinonline.com

Above my pay grade?
Thats one of the few correct statements made by Obama. Just about every issue is above his paygrade. McCain is certainly not my first choice as possible leader of the free world, but he is so far above Obama in experience, knoweledge, and ability that it should be no contest. For sure this forum was hand down no contest. Obama did a lot of hummmmmmming and hawwwwwing and gave vague answers while McCain was stright forward and clear in his replys. As for evangelicals who watched, Obama really lost it with his take on abortion, evil in the world, and how to help the poor. Its clear Obama would be a disaster as president. Hold your nose if you must and vote McCain or watch us move closer to a third world country.

Obama
amazing how quickly the liberal media turned and started saying McCain cheated. Is this a grade school student council president race? The last shred of credibility the press had they lost with that tirade. Obama was not prepared, he somply cannot think on his feet. Not something that is desirable in the white house -- color and race has nothing to do with it.

reply to odds...
... you know, first it would be nice to actually read a coherent stance (wishful thinking I guess), but also if you start throwing around statitics (and names) you should quote a source. Last time I checked, this was not a socialist leaning nation. The Democratic party has been hijacked by the socialist left which will be their undoing. Obama makes Clinton look almost Republican in contrast.

THANK YOU LARRY!
Brickhouse, Rosemary and faithful629--Excellent!

Obama Exposed!! A snob, a radical leftist, he's clueless on foreign affairs and believes in one thing--abortion, abortion abortion and more abortion. And he should be POTUS????!!!

I can see Obama walking into the Gore and Kerry Bar & Grill. With a Romney VP pick, McCain might assure Obama takes his seat at the "G.K. Bar & Grill" or is it...................
"The G.K.O.Bar & Grill Grill!!!

the Obama hologram
This forum made John McCain look like the solid man of substance he is. Barack Obama was like a hologram, looks okay on the surface, nothing underneath.

Changing DC
McCain talks about not taxing more but stopping spending. I'm all for that, not only because it would save money, but also because it would help us, as voters, know how a person actually voted on a particular bill. It's very confusing to know where anyone stands on any issue. Did they vote for the subject of the bill or did they vote for the "pork" that went with the bill? Without changing that aspect of Congress, it doesn't really matter who's President, America will continue to spend itself into a Third World country.

ALSO MANY THANKS TO:

faithful629, Brickhouse and Rosemary.

THE POSTS WERE RIGHT ON THE MONEY.

WELL SAID!

If liberals had any shame
They would be embarrased by carter's fiasco of a presidency and would seek better candidates.

Instead they nominate a guy who is clearly worse than old Jimmuh ever was because they still believe gov't can solve all issues as long as they get enough money from the rest of us.

They got a shot 2 years ago when gas was $1.89, now it's over 4 bucks...way to go morons.

They are the party of whiners, losers and perverts...no America lovers and hard workers need apply, just keep working, we need the dough to buy more votes.

The only truly intelligent patriotic democrat left in congress is Lieberman and they threw him out, which is what we need to do to them in Nov.

President McCain [ I like the ring of that] will have some tough calls to make on the Russia problem, he doesn't need to be distracted and undermined by these fools in congress. Much more can be accomplished in a shorter time without these albatrosses around his neck..chuck them overboard and let's start fresh, they're beginning to stink.


Why are any of you surprised?
Remember the 2000 and 2004 elections? As soon as their guy was clearly the loser, the screams of CHEATER! began and have not stopped to this day.

Actually they would not mind if the other guy cheated -- its just that they perceive that the other guy cheated MORE EFFECTIVELY THAN THEY DID.

As I have been saying from the beginning, Obama is running for Prom King or Homeroom Captain. He has no idea in the world what goes on after the middle of ones Junior Year at University.

ex-canuck Reply #7
I second the motion!!! And Dr. Sowell is JUST the guy to do it! Our government needs to be put on a MAJOR diet, it's not just the children who are suffering from "obesity" in America!

nmi and will not:
nmi and Will:
keep talking, your ignorance comes shining through. (And before you accuse me of flinging childish adjectives around, remeber it was your obama who painted republicans with a broad brush as called them ignorant when it comes to energy policy...)

Iowa patn
You seem to be at a loss as to events of the world.

I would sugest you get help in your short comings.

Great Article!
Great article - right on the money. Great comments. Obama was terrible, McCain was better than I have ever seen him and even managed to redeem himself in our eyes. As for Obama saying "it's above my pay grade" - well, duh! Obama showed that THINKING is above his pay grade!

Great column, Mr. Elder!
and my one most important suggestion to all is to VOTE FOR EVERY CONSERVATIVE ON THE TICKET! We must regain a CONSERVATIVE voice in Congress! I am sending contributions across the country to CONSERVATIVES - let's get some common sense in Washington. I do believe the Republicans who forgot their CONSERVATIVE constituents have gotten the message!

Not only would I like for many government agencies to be eliminated, all PORK BARREL requests should be either done away with or at the very least, the name of the sponsor must be front and center! And no more adding stuff behind closed doors and then a vote taken on the floor of a bill no one has even read! I believe these actions would make a major dent in the US Budget!!!!

My dear Iowa PatN:
"McAmnesty," "McSlickTalk," "McCostCutter". Do you know how stupid and immature you sound? It's people like you who give liberals their well-deserved reputation. Almost as good as whining and calling McCain a cheater because he actually knew what he was talking about. Does the whining EVER stop from the obama side? Apparently it doesn't nor does childish name calling.

Saddleback
I watched the whole thing - twice! Wanted to make sure I got it ALL!!!

Barack Hussein Obama equivocated every question (IAW Dems-gave nuanced answers).

Mac gave straight, understandable answers. Well, he equivocated one question! "What is the greatest failure of the government"?

I wanted him to admit the greatest government failure (at least in MY 72 years) was NOT enforcing the illegal immigration laws. Instead, Mac gave a convoluted, BHO inspired kind of answer. On this one question, he appeared to have a "hidden agenda" he did not want revealed.

Other than that, BHO appeared to be a high school or college level debater (talk as fast with as many words possible in allotted time), and Mac appeared presidential.

After Saturday night,
the differences between the two candidates have been made crystal clear! Senator Obama showed he does not have a clue as to what a president should be prepared to do. Senator McCain came through question after question with flying colors. Ladies and gentlemen, if you can't see the difference in qualifications after that evening, I don't know what to say. I want a president who already loves America and believes in its greatness. NOT someone who is ashamed of his country!!!

Ob's sliding scale ...
for defining income status.

Oh my God, I'm living in poverty and didn't even know it!

Thanks Mr. Elder. Not only do enjoy your columns but I come away with new information every time I read one.

They Both Were Given an Outline
McCain was on Laura's show yesterday and explained what the hullabaloo was regarding him getting fed the questions.

Both McCain and Obama prior to the interview were given an outline on what topics were going to be addressed. They weren't told the questions, but they were told topics, that was it.

McCain said, and I'm paraphrasing, that based on the topics, it was obvious what questions were going to be asked, at least it was obvious to me.

Apparently, it wasn't obvious to Obama. In fact, nothing really is obvious to Obama is it? 20 years of Wright, hanging with Ayers and Dohrn, receiving money and doing shady deals he supposedly didn't know were shady with Rezko...

Sheesh, no wonder Hamas donated money to his campaign.

The golden Pen soldier
From the safe ledges of our rock-built caverns of our purple land we watch day after day, unharmed as chaos and confusion swirled around the world. Outside these safe caverns a leader without experience could bring us death, inside the safe cavern with an experience leader no danger could come near us. Not the earthshaking media headlines that shout from our daily newspapers about some "great orator" loved by oversea allies or the thrilling news "of one that sneezed and has a cold" while they cheered for the sound of the sneeze. No, it is the sound of the angels and their trumpets gathering the elected faithful to fight the filthfulness of radical thinking and immoral spread of iniquities that dare to infect our country. It makes me proud to see Larry Elder be one of those elected and not let color be influenced in this election. Great article, son.

Oh and Let's not Forget
The new scandal of Obama's poor judgement:

Wanting to use our money to feed and defeat poverty around the world, and yet, has a starving half brother in Africa who lives on $1.00 a month that he hasn't given a dime to.

OOPS!

Mr_Sparky
I don't understand your post! Are you condemning or supporting BHO?

SS, Medicare, Medicaid, and other social/wefare programs are paid for through "payroll deductions". The problem is the dimmies have allowed non-paying (welfare cheaters, illegal aliens, etc.) access.

Eliminate the illegals, limit welfare (enforce welfare rules & regs), and solvency of those programs, without any additional burden on younger workers, will result.

Instead of bit--ing about SS, et.al.< start insisting insisting the gov. require a "litany test" of American citizenship!!!!

Roll eyes
Oh brother. I'm amazed at how many Republicans think McCain won the Saddleback "debate". They just can't get enough of guys who give simplistic answers to complex questions. When asked about when life begins McCain said "At conception." The crowd went wild with enthusiasm at an answer that any five year old could be trained to say. But that's enough for Republicans to declare that John McCain is ready to lead.

Obama says the answer to that question is beyond his pay grade. Obama understands that a lot of really smart people have devoted a lot of serious thinking to this issue and have not been able to agree on an answer. Even the Pope hasn't come up with a definitive answer to that question.


Here's how Steven Pinker describes the "moment" of conception in "The Blank Slate":
"Just as a microscope reveals that a straight edge is really ragged, research on human reproduction shows that the 'moment of conception' is not a moment at all. Sometimes several sperm penetrate the outer membrane of the egg, and it takes time for the egg to eject the extra chromosomes ... Even when a single sperm enters, its genes remain separate from those of the egg for a day or more, and it takes yet another day or so for the newly merged genome to control the cell. So the 'moment' of conception is in fact a span of twenty-four to forty-eight hours."

Isn't it obvious that there is no black line you can draw where, before that line there was no life, but after that line there is? It's preposterous to think one can say when life begins.

I hope you all saw the CNN special last night. Most of you will probably be shocked to realize what an inspiring man Barack Obama is. Heck, most of you will probably be shocked to realize he's a decent human being.

Phylo out.

McFlipFlop on Rape and Incest
I see today that after talking slick talk trash to the evangelicals, McAmnesty NOW is stating that he disagrees with the Republican Party platform plank on abortion, and that NOW he wants exceptions for rape and incest! Will life of the mother be next, or did he leave that out on purpose? Unequivocal equivocation! Oh, sorry sheeple, I forgot, he was a POW 40 years ago so we can't ask him questions.

Obama Crashed and Burned
Obama had an opportunity to make his pitch to an evamgelical audience hosted by a preacher as sympathetic to Obama as is possible. Obama failed miserably, as he usually does when not reading a script from a teleprompter. He failed because he really does not believe in anything except what will help him get elected. The man has no values and no core beliefs. McCain is clearly the better choice.

Reply to Phylo Se Fiser
The question of "when life begins" is not the same as whether, or at what point in a pregnancy, abortion should be legal. Life clearly begins at conception, as McCain stated. "Smart people" who need to think about this a lot, or feel it is above their "pay grade", are just trying to rationalize their position on abortion. I would have (a little) more respect for Obama if he said that life began at conception, but nevertheless favored a woman's right to choose between life and death.

The main trouble with McCain
The big concern with a McCain presidency -is that the U.S. will lurch from crisis to crisis, confrontation to confrontation, whether it be with Iran, North Korea, Russia, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc. The danger is that McCain's pundit-like rhetoric will entrap the U.S. in descending spiral of foreign policy brinksmanship. Just think about the very likely scenario of McCain giving Iran/Russia a rhetorical ultimatum and Iran/Russia ignoring it. Now we are stuck - either we lose face by not following through on our threats or we follow through and go to war. We can't afford such a reckless approach after the last eight years. For the next eight we need a president not a pundit.

For anyone who had eyes to see, Georgia was a perfect illustration of this. He totally flew off the handle, ramping the situation up dramatically with his unstable rhetoric.

a thought from J/M/
he's shown a tendency always to jump to the most confrontational and military-based responses to foreign events, often to almost ridiculous levels. And I think because of that temperament, he's fallen in with and become a useful tool of the DC neoconservatives who view acting crazy and getting people killed as a matter of principle.

I've watched the Bush presidency very closely. I've watched McCain closely for the last decade or so. And I either know or know a decent amount about a lot of the people advising him on foreign policy. And in terms of the physical safety and future of my wife and two sons, let alone the country, I would much prefer four more years of the Bush presidency to a McCain presidency.


The erring brother and grandson
An elderly kenyan woman has been confined to her chair outside her shamble straw house due to her poor feet. While she sits there plucking feathers off a chicken she looks at her hands which have become wrinkled and blistered. Not once that she think of herself, but of her grandson in America who will take her out of this filth. How proud she is of her grandson. On the other side of the world, a young man sits under a torn down sheet used for cover from the rain. His home is made of dirty fruit boxes. He also waits for his brother in America to help him . In America the kin who is called Obama hangs a sign over his million dollar home. It is a notice to his family that, whomever is looking for comfort and help, need not apply. Yet, he states to the Saddleback forum that "love toward your brother" is a part of our existence, why hasn't he taken care of his own? These are words that Yeshua warn us of concerning false prophets. We can well imagine the thoughts which must surged through the mind of Obama as he trudged along the road of Kenya back to his father's house and finds "flies, toliets outside and poor kinfolks. "This people who I wrote in my book- are not my people." Unfortunately, the perfect example of humility is not here and are not demonstrated in his works of faith.

Shells
I don't understand why you and other conservatives constantly sing the hymn about Dems and taxes for entitlements.

The fact is, all of the major corporations you seem to love so much don't pay any, or at most pay just a small fraction.

If you conservatives really cared about your tax dollars, why do you never complain about the fact that you are paying the share for companies like Exxon and Microsoft?

Phylo
If Obama is such a "decent human being", how can he live a life of luxury while his brother is starving in Africa?

Bizarro world economics
Obama... "we got to pay for these things, they don't come for free"

OK, For a Democrat this seems almost a revelation-like in it's apparent economic
genuineness. But how will he pay for it? Tax the rich, of course. So BO, how then do you define rich?

Obama...If you make 150K you're middle class, or maybe poor..... if you're making more than $250K, then you're in the top 3, 4 percent of this country. You're doing well.... but it's all relative, I'm not suggesting that everybody who is making over 250,000 (dollars) is living on easy street.

Try to make sense of that cargo-load
of econo-babble crapola.

And Conservative Ron has it exactly correct. Richness if it can defined at all, is based on net worth, not income, so the whole premise of taxing the rich based on income is demonstrably bogus.

Charles
You say "Life clearly begins at conception."

Clearly you haven't bothered to give the subject much thought. Do you realize that the Pope (Ratzinger) has said that we can't say when, precisely, life begins.

The fact is, there is no "moment" of conception. You're imagining that there is such a thing. I defy you to prove otherwise.

Most people talk across each other on the abortion issue. The fact is, most people don't have a serious disagreement on abortion. Most people agree that abortion for the sake of convenience is immoral, and most people agree that the doctor and the mother should not be jailed for murder if a woman decides to get an abortion.

Just because something is immoral, doesn't mean it should be illegal. For example, it would be ridiculous to make adultery illegal, even though it is clearly immoral.

Phylo out.

Mr. Obama
it seems was always overpaid and underqualified.
It's an amazingly good eye opener. I saw the debate 3 times, to be able to also hear the interpretation of this event by three cable stations. I am saddened to report that there was so much venom coming out of Roland Martin on CNN (he can't see past race I believe and it's disturbing to watch) that I gave up 10 minutes into him joining the panel. No wonder CNN is 27th on the ratings.
Fox was, well Fox, intelligent balance of dems and Reps...simply put...FAIR and Balance, thus their No. 2 spot on the ratings is well deserved.
MSNBC, come on guys you need to fire everyone and do a total cleansing with chicken legs and chantring and everything else you must trow at it to find any type of reporting, I guess the fact that the news outlet are supposed to report the news not invent the news. this service is an insult to intelligence.
Rock on Mr. Elder!

last post - the stupidity of americans
what is astonishing on this thread are all the posts from people who have decided that McCain is a wonder boy who is going to fix our lives, get God on our side, kill the bad guys and knock down tall buildings, and Obama is the arch-villain who will summon the devil to destroy all the is Good and American.


The fact is we've seen this judgement used already from all of you who said that same thing about Bush and voted for him twice. You seem determined to keep the country tethered to a sloganeering, emotion-driven, decline
for a population that seems to care more about who gets married than whether we will survive food shortages, energy depletion (you don't even really understand offshore drilling, you just know that if we get 3 years of oil to add tothe world market, our problems will be solved!)
and our loss of economic power in the world. Most of you still think that global warming is a leftist plot. The rest of you think Ovama is the anti-Christ, and a few still think the world is flat and that angels live in the clouds, above those pesky hurricanes.

Charles
I believe that story came out of World Nut Daily as Michael Medved refers to it. Consider the source. And try to watch that CNN special on Obama. Really, you need to form your opinion of Obama on a foundation more stable and objective than Hannity's lies about him. You don't seriously think Hannity is giving you the straight story about Obama, do you?

think 4 yourself
Well said.

I can't believe these knuckleheads have a voice in determining the leadership of this country. I'm starting to think that we should have an IQ requirement for voting rights. These people are actually going to vote for a guy who is going to give more tax breaks to the top 2% and will probably jump at the chance to get us into another war. It doesn't matter to them that, according to The Center for Tax Policy has determined that McCain's economic plan would balloon the debt 40% more than Obama's. All they know is that Obama is different, and different is bad.

I want to cry.

Phylo Se Fiser
I watched the CNN special on Obama. There must be two of them as I was not impressed as you seem to be. I saw a man with a plan for self-promotion which he carried out despite causing problems at home and despite what he had to do to achieve his goal.

Obama lied – babies died
B.H.O. is no reformer – he’s a gangster-style, old school Chicago hack. B.H.O. is not “The One” – he is by calculative composition a champion of his master’s agenda (Unions, Planned Parenthood, and Mr. Saros et al). B.H.O. will change our capitalist country into one, big union shop run by the Democrats; bent towards the left so far that his socialist European friends will recognize him for the Communist at heart he really is.
I do not fear him; I loathe him for the holocaust of the Unborn (and in some cases the Born) he so adamantly supports. I do not think is name is funny; I think his name speaks defiantly of his family’s murderous, African-Muslim roots.
The more his candidacy is vetted, the more we learn about the puppet-masters behind the scrim of the burka. The G.O.P. will have enormous crossover votes because we love to win, believe our country is the best the world has ever seen, and mightily disapprove of American apologists. We will elect McCain because he actually will put the country first – and has the alarming record of cavorting with Democrats to prove it. John may not have led the perfect, conservative life but no one has, eh? McCain’s life is an open book and Obama’s is shrouded in mystery, deceit, and dope.
See you at the polls!


Bylo, philo, or whatever,
I would whole-heartedly support your suggestion regarding an I.Q. test because that would pretty much eliminate people like you and a majority of those on the left.

Have a nice day, just do it someplace else!

Don C
Sgt/USMC
(1971-75)

dims and their smoking mirrors
2 years ago the red nazi and land deal ran the congressional campaign that all america needed to do was vote in the dims and under their inspired leadership they would clean up the corruption in congress and pass the legislation the country was demanding to make things better for the great unwashed.

But as we see corruption has gotten worse and no meaningful legislation has passed. Plus we see the dim leadership totally opposed to the search for oil while content to send $700 billion to opec this year alone.

But now we have the messiah running the same type of campaign. Even with no real world experience and no clue on how to resolve issues we are told that all we need do is trust the messiah and his divine leadership will inspire all people to make the sacrifices he tells us what must make to remake the america he tells us we can be.

But as he constantly shows he has no real ideas. He needs hundreds of advisers to fashion his talking points and write position papers.

But all he has shown is that he is just a status quo pol who has no new ideas. But fortunately for america it is apparent that his personality doesn't transfer to actual ideas and plans.

That he needs to nuance responses rather than answer questions shows he doesn't understand the issues. It shows he truly lacks a belief system and moral compass. That he responds with it's above my pay grade to a very simple question proves he can't take a stand less he offend his leftist base

think_4_yourself, Be assured BHO's
administration won't be confrontational, and he is no doubt preparing a large white flag as this is written. I'm going to take my course in Russian now and beat the rush.

Phylo
1. The opinion of the Pope is totally irrelevant to me.

2. I never watch CNN except to see Larry King make a fool of himself.

3. Baraq Hussein Obama Sr. was a man of extremely low moral character who fathered numerous children by various polygamous wives and mistresses, including starving George in Africa.

4. Even most pro-choice people support the right to abortion only in the first trimester, when the fetus is clearly not viable outside the mother.

5. No matter how much you intellectualize the subject, a fetus that has a heartbeat outside the mother, either after surviving an abortion or as a candidate for a partial birth abortion, is clearly alive. Obama supports "choice" even at this point, which is clearly infanticide.

think_4_yourself
You're not quite as astute as your handle might suggest. Did it ever occur to you that no matter how much you tax a corporation, that tax will be passed on to the consumer.

Every business operates on a model that will hopefully guarantee them a percentage of profit. When that profit is taxed the company is forced to raise the price of their goods and services.

Bottom line is that the consumer pays 100% of the taxes imposed upon every company. Unfortunately some people are not capable of understanding that and others refuse to take off their rose colored glasses.

Do us a favor and think for yourself!

Phylo
From the Telegraph, in the UK, on Baraq's abandoned brother, who Baraq acknowledged in his book:

"Vanity Fair also noted that he had a front page newspaper picture of his famous brother - born of the same father as him, Barack Hussein Obama, but to a different mother, named only as Jael.

He told the magazine: "I live like a recluse, no-one knows I exist."

Embarrassed by his penury, he said that he does not does not mention his famous half-brother in conversation.

"If anyone says something about my surname, I say we are not related. I am ashamed," he said.

For ten years George Obama lived rough. However he now hopes to try to sort his life out by starting a course at a local technical college.

He has only met his famous older brother twice - once when he was just five and the last time in 2006 when Senator Obama was on a tour of East Africa and visited Nairobi.

The Illinois senator mentions his brother in his autobiography, describing him in just one passing paragraph as a "beautiful boy with a rounded head".

Of their second meeting, George Obama said: "It was very brief, we spoke for just a few minutes. It was like meeting a complete stranger."

George added he was no longer in contact with his mother and said:"I have had to learn to live and take what I need.

"Huruma is a tough place, last January during the elections there was rioting and six people were hacked to death. The police don't even arrest you they just shoot you."


this all reminds me
of a situation I arbitrated between two union members (female) who had gotten into a verbal altercation which escalated to the point that it was disrupting production, and threatening to become physical.
I asked the first one what the other had said, and she replied, "She called me a sleazy B****". The second countered, "She said I was a worthless wh*re."
After conferring with the Union rep., we decided it was possible that both women were right, so we put them on probation and threatened to fire the next one who said a word to the other.
I have the feeling that everything negative (and more) is probably true about each of these candidates. Congress' ratings are in the low teens, yet this is where we find the two to lead us out of the Bush-league quagmire? Neither one of these guys is going to inspire anyone to expand the face of Mt. Rushmore.

Think_4_Yourself
I am not rich by Obama's standards. Why aren't I jumping up and down and overjoyed that he is going to fleece the evil rich folk in the big evil corporations? Because I'm not stupid.

The evil rich and those evil corporations, including the evil oil companies, pay the ultimate lion's share of taxes already. No? Don't think so? Google.

We all are over taxed as it is, rich and poor. What happens when you grossly tax even more the weathly and those evil companies? Well, as a person who owns her own property, pays her taxes, and works for an evil corporation, I'll tell you:

1. The evil company I work for makes less money because of the tax stranglehold Obama proposes to force on business and the wealthy.

2. Because my company will be paying more on taxes, it means less of that profit is going to development, research, parts, and upgrades.

3. Because other companies are in the same boat, they too will suffer as in #2, and also, will be restricted finacially for any volume purchases they may need from my company.

4. Which means not only will my company still have to pay robbery taxes, have less money, they now will be making less sales, which means they aren't making anything at all and yet, they are still evil, so they still will be paying the same high taxes.

5. What happens next is due to the fact we're close to broke, losing customers who's business had to shut down, the company then needs to turn their eye on me.

6. The final stage: I get a terrible raise or none at all, my benefits are gimped, and since my company cannot account for the staff vs the production, I will get laid off.

Now tell me, just how will taxing the rich and evil corporations help middle America me?

Don't Look Now!
Associated Press:


Iraq pullout agreement close

Condoleezza Rice says the U.S. and Iraq are coming together on timetables for U.S. troop withdrawals


BAGHDAD - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said Thursday that U.S. and Iraqi officials agree that timetables should be set for a U.S. troop withdrawal, but conceded that nailing down a broader pact on future relations is difficult.

-------------------------

"...AGREE THAT TIMETABLES SHOULD BE SET..."

Bush has been saying all along "NO TIMETABLES!". Then, Barack visits the region and he and the Iraqi prime minister (al-Maliki) and higher-ups agreed a "timetable" needed to be set. Then, GWB said, "No, not TIMETABLES!...I already said NO!...we'll say a 'time HORIZON'...yeah, time horizon!...that sounds better, VAGUER!"


Clearly, Obama is having a small impact on our Iraqi policy now. Timetables are now in the air....

Why McCain Is Clueless

HAROLD (1;12 am. response to my 12;39 am post, "Clueless John McCain"), writes:

"Ever heard of D.B. Cooper? Or, thousands of other desperados who completely got away with their crimes. And those without the resources of someone like OBL."

Neither D.B. Cooper nor any of the "thousands of desperadoes who completely got away with their crimes" were ever accused of plotting the murders of THREE THOUSAND PEOPLE and wreaking massive destruction on U.S. soil. Nor were they targeted by a President of the United States as Osama bin Laden was by Pres. Bush.

Immediately after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Pres. Bush named bin Laden as the prime suspect in the attacks, repeatedly vowed to get bin Laden "dead or alive," That Osama bin Laden is STILL around today, STILL recruiting terrorists and STILL threaaten9ng to annihilate America and Americans is a testament to the failure of Pres. Bush.

For John McCain, in 2008 to claim he would go to the "gates of hell" in his pursuit of bin Laden shows just how singularly evil McCain considers bin Osama Laden to be. But then to be citing mass murderer bin Laden as an authoritative source (in the same sentence as Gen. David Petraeus!) proves just how clueless McCain is.

All you need do is re-read McCain's statement quoted by Larry Elder:
"And the central battleground, according to David Petraeus and OSAMA BIN LADEN, is Baghdad, Mosul, Basra and Iraq."

THE LIBERAL PHYLO AND THINK 4 DUO.


Two members of "Kid Obama Nation".

The wonderful thing about liberals? They never change. Every single thought is fine in theory and sounds marvelous. That's where it ends.

In practical matters and issues when you need someone who understands the serious realities of the world, when mindless, meaningless, con-job slogans won't do the job, when the position of POTUS is involved, that's when liberals like Phylor and Think 4 turn out to one thing.


USELESS.

Still Clueless McCAIN

HAWK at 8:27 am, in response to my 12:39 am post, "Clueless John McCain," writes: " keep talking, your ignorance comes shining through"

Please see my 11;09 AM POST.

TX Don To true
Thinking4Myself wants to tax corporations because in the lib world corporations are the height of what is evil in America. He and BO think it is a great idea to tax (take by force) windfall profits (they get to make the definition) from corporations who provide goods and services that are in demand in a capitalistic society.

If BO was truthful he would have cited BIG OIL as a definition of what he thinks is evil in this world.

A true definition of evil would include Trinity UCC and its rabidly racist rhetoric about blacks being captives in an America designed to kill and imprison them. Preaching racial hatred might let you retire to a mansion paid for by the deluded souls of your "church" but it is pure evil! BO could not see evil if he spent twenty years sitting in the pews listening to it!

Stealing proftis from corporations is what passes for original thinking in BO's fevered brain. BO wake up! State planned economies are a receipe for economic disaster. Who will make the best use of profits? The corporations who earned them and want to ensure that the profits continue and grow or the government led by a messiah who only wants to buy more votes.

Do any of the libs on this thread read Walter Williams? Or do they confine their reading of economic theory to Karl Marx?

Thinking for yourself
This is a good philosophy ....
I agree with the article, good job Larry!
I also agree with EX-CANUCK, we do not need all of the existing government intervention.
some thoughts for all posters ...
Big business lobbiest's are destroying our economy ... we cannot tax ourselves into prosperity ... our citizens need to get off of the entitlement nipple and be more self reliant ... and when Russia threatens to use nucular weapon's (a Russian General has already made this threat) against Polland because of our placement of the strategic defense system ... which candidate do you THINK will stand up to Russia (just like JFK did) ... which candidate do you really want answering that phone call at 3:00 in the morning???

correction
I MEANT TO SAY NUCLEAR WEAPON'S

Funny...
When asked how many homes he owns, John McCain answered "I'm not sure. I'll have to check with my staff."

After some sleuthing, a staff spokesman answer, "At least four..."


Now didn't John McCain say at the Brokeback Church that he thought "5 million" was considered rich? - For somebody with WELL over 5 million dollars and "at least 4" houses (some say 8 or 9 is more accurate), THIS is the guy that can relate to the average voter who has problems paying his mortgage and putting food on the table?

Coming around
I didn't vote for McCain in the primary, but as time goes on I like him more and more. I like him the most when he is compared directly to Obama because there is no comparison. McCain knows things and believes in things, with Obama all you get is the feeling that he's measuring every word to give the best staged answer. I might not agree with Mccain on everything but at least I feel like he can handle business.

will writes:
Funny...
When asked how many homes he owns, John McCain answered "I'm not sure. I'll have to check with my staff."

After some sleuthing, a staff spokesman answer, "At least four..."


Now didn't John McCain say at the Brokeback Church that he thought "5 million" was considered rich? - For somebody with WELL over 5 million dollars and "at least 4" houses (some say 8 or 9 is more accurate), THIS is the guy that can relate to the average voter who has problems paying his mortgage and putting food on the table?

Funny is what I'd call Obugout's house deal he made. Check out the Carpenter column,Shady House Deal Plagues..."

Will
Will makes the common mistake of confusing income and assets.

McCain's income is less than 10% of Obama's because Obama made a big killing on his book. However, Cindy McCain, who files separately, has the real assets and income from a family business. Madame Obama's income is largely a payoff from political connections.

Why does all of this matter? Because the Democrats, as usual, like to engage in class warfare. They seem to think we will feel better about paying higher taxes because the "rich" and the corporations will be paying even more. For myself, all I care about is the bottom line on my 1040. Oops, I forgot, most of the Obama cult doesn't pay any taxes, then squeals becuase they don't get a big tax cut. Disgusting lazy bums.

another troll problem
seems the trolls are getting their panties in a twist over the number of homes the mccains own. Since cindy is worth more than $100 million I guess they can afford as many homes as they wish.

But I don't recall the left seemed the least bit troubled with the number of homes and cars that kerry/heinz owned. Or for that matter the thousands he spent from the allowance his wife gives him to buy expensive bikes and wind surfers.

But I forgot, only repub wealth is evil. Anything the dims have has been honestly earned. But I guess that explains why the left also has no problem with alldull becoming a billionaire from his globull warming scam.

Hypocrisy thy name is dimocrap

Will, Philo, King Lib, nmi etal
Would each or any of the lib posters on this thread answer just a couple of questions.

Why if McCain and his ideas are such losers does the Annointed One refuse to do any townhall or other joint appearances?

McCain is an old man and his ideas are terrible. Surely the young, smart, glib BO would welcome the chance to tear ole McCain a new one.


BO knows he screwed up big time by going to Saddleback. BO is a man of ahs and ohs when he is off his teleprompter.

BO and BS are twin bros and BO can't even deliver the BS if it is not scripted for him. Talk about a LOSER!


If the beginning of life is beyond his paygrade why would BO ever allow a woman a choice in terminating what he has just admitted might be a human life? Terminating human life is either manslaughter or murder.


Can't he just be honest and say a woman has total control of the life of the infant inside her body and if she wants to kill this life he will support her decision? Cut the crap and that is what he is saying!

JAG CA
I could not have said it better. Obama is a gutless coward who cannot debate a man that the left characterizes as old, senile, out-of-touch, etc. McCain would clean Obama's clock in a fair debate, but with mainstream media in charge, Obama will get softball questions.

King Lib
Only in the demented mind of of Lib could BO's performance at Saddleback be called a win!

well said charles////keep it up Larry
I am in complete agreement with charles post #71 and not to make light of the topic of conception.
But if Al excelsior Gore can without a shadow of doubt decide man is responsible for global warming (or is it claimant change now?) case closed. Then why can’t we come to a decision on conception?

King Liberal
Blah Blah Blah
You remind me of my brother in law.
He goes on and on and on
thinking he's so much smarter and
boring the heck out of all of us
blah blah blah blah blah

Obama is Toast
The Obama campaign is toast and the far left is running scared. The wacko Bob Barr vote won't even matter.

The Obama campaign illustrates the relatively short shelf life of obsessive cults. The cult peaked in February, was buried by Hillary in most of the real elections after that, and blew its cookies at Saddleback. Obama has not won a real primary of any significance, just caucuses (where they organized better), primaries in heavily black states, and primaries in cowboy country where they can't possibly win in November.

My biggest concen about the election is the riots that will occur when the "Chosen One" loses after the mob has been assured a "historic election."

Ok Joycey! Blah Blah Blah indeed!
If your idea of winning is to keep writing when you have absolutely nothing to say then King Lib is a winner!

Instead of answering the question of why BO would support abortion if he has no idea when life begins King Lib goes on and on about what a winner Roe v Wade is for libs! Really. I've seen polls showing 75% would vote to ban late term abortions with only life threatening exceptions not just mother's health.

Memo for King Lib: Why would an old retired white male like myself ever have or would have had clients? If you are trying to insult me by saying I was a lawyer you have succeeded!

The issue;expenditures
Washington is way too big,broken,ignorant and arrogant! Does working inside the beltway cause one to lose all concepts of reality and the "true" American dream? Our roots, trials and tribulations. Since when did Washington and the MSM get the right to speak for me, or so many of us? Stop spending my money so recklessly. I don't need health insurance, I don't need a bridge to nowhere,I don't want to pay more for the homeless(their problem), fannie-mae,freddie-mac, home foreclosures..etc. That's their problem, not mine.The best lessons in life, are the hardest learned. Pain,hardship,fear,doubts and regrets are some of my greatest motivators.Make more and stop this rediculous spending. We all have budgets. Why should DC be any different. Afterall, it's our money

King Lib
how do you even show your face around here? After your golden boy's performance...you have NOTHING to say to McCain supporters, the guy is slowly getting exposed and you as a thinking man should be opposed to voting for BO, or anyone else either. If you want to be taken seriously as even a moderate intellectual then drop BO and admit he's the greater of two evils, period.

King Liberal writes:
Sure "JAG"
answers given in the "spirit" of your "questions"

"Why if McCain and his ideas are such losers does the Annointed One refuse to do any townhall or other joint appearances?"

Why waste time debating with an idiot? And it seems to really make you cons upset. Double Points for Obama on that one.

McCain wants to debate an idiot

"BO knows he screwed up big time by going to Saddleback. BO is a man of ahs and ohs when he is off his teleprompter."

Obama can't string together a coherent thought when he is away from his speeches and teleprompters

I guess you don't remember McCain's debate performances-I recall Romney destroying and making him look like a petulant chump.

Saddleback was a win for Obama because most thought he wouldn't do it, many eveangelicals weren't going to vote for him anways so he had nothing to lose-any gains he got from the appearance is gravy. McCAin had to go and hit a home run-or else his rabid base would have exploded.

McCain hit the homer, and Obama struck out. He came across as an of his depth high school debate team reject

"If the beginning of life is beyond his paygrade why would BO ever allow a woman a choice in terminating what he has just admitted might be a human life? Terminating human life is either manslaughter or murder."

Thanks to a dem controlled congress I rest easy knowing that any sort of pro-life activist judge will never get confirmed to supreme court.

Just think where you'd be if your mother had decided to abort you.

So while you are making a very specific abortion point an issue it doesn't address the big picture-which seems to be the GOP's main problem these days.

The dems don't even know where to find the big picture.

King Liberal
When was the last time you changed your underwear, bud? You seem to spend your entire day making inane posts at townhall.com, which doesn't leave much time for personal hygiene. Those shorts must be pretty stiff by now.

King Liberal
You knowledge appears to be limited to cancelled third-rate TV shows (JAG). Get a life.

Obama On The Down Swing.


We have a lightweight in "The Not Ready For Prime Time Obama". Clearly, he's not ready to lead the nation. It's that simple. The Dems. find themselves in a Gore/Kerry situation.

Deja Vu all over again.

McCain, on the other hand, is no MT Suit. Clearly, he's ready for the big stage and to lead our country.

Queen Liberal
""Why if McCain and his ideas are such losers does the Annointed One refuse to do any townhall or other joint appearances?"

Why waste time debating with an idiot?

Tell me that's not your real answer. Honestly, whats next "your mother wears combat boots"

Obama
If you want a peak into what Obama will be like if elected look no further than Mass and our gov Deval Patrick. His campain was exactly the same , if you were against him you were a racist. Every moonbat swooned and drooled their way to the ballot box. What has he done since elected?
well the only 2 things i can think of is he put 15.000 drapes in his office (taxpayer money) and traded his gov't car in for a new caddie. Thus the name Cadillac Deval. Other than that he has done Sht. We have shooting galleries in the black community and he is silent. But hey I guess we arent racist because he won!

BO no cajones!!!!
King lib your man (using the term completely out of context)BO should have answered the question about when does life begin with the following except he like most defenders of Roe v Wade have no backbone.

"I have no idea when life begins and cannot be bothered with even contemplating such a trival matter. All that is sacred is a woman's right to choose an abortion is that is her desire. Everything else is just a distraction."

That unregal liberal is what a person with any manly endowment would have answered if he had the voting record of BO. If BO would just man up about his past associations and voting record I could at least believe in his honesty but his constantly yelling liar and racist when anyone questions any of this makes him look like the unpolished t@rd that he is!

All too predictable posts

JAG CA, 1:05 pm post, writes: "Would each or any of the lib posters on this thread answer just a couple of questions..."

I marvel at the uniformity of response from bloggers such as Jag CA when faced with bloggers with points of view contrary to theirs.

Critics, no matter how valid the criticisms are automatically tagged and discounted as "liberals, libs, idiotlibs, demolibs, socialists, commies, Code Pink or some such derogatory term depending on the depth of anger.

Would be nice if just once folks would adhere to the invitation printed at the end of each Town Hall column: 'JOIN THE DEBATE!"
Not as in anger-driven epithets and insults, but an honest-to-goodness trading of ideas. Try it; you might even get your point across.



nmi what's to debate?
Most liberals think that Sen Obama has a good reason for spending 20 plus years in the pews at Trinity United Church of Christ. I'm asking you, nmi, have you read the complete text of THE BLACK VALUE SYSTEM. The BVS appeared as a central tenet of TUCC and Sen Obama stated that it was one of the main reasons he joined TUCC.

In March 2008 TUCC saw fit to abridge BVS by deleting its' most overtly racist parts. Of course I and many others had printed the full text complete with TUCC letterhead and anyone wanting to see the BVS in all its glory can go to Little Green Footballs and under THE BLACK VALUE SYSTEM dated Mar 17 2008 find both the edited and unedited text.

Under concept #8 of the BVS you find blacks described as "captives" in an America designed to "kill" and "imprison" them.

Why would anyone who supported such a church for over 20 years and called its' pastor his mentor be able to say his membership is just distraction with no other comment needed. When your church is obviously run by black racist who have nothing but utter contempt for white America calling your membership a distraction is like saying my 20 plus years in the KKK under the mentorship of the Grand Wizard is nothing to be concerned about.

nmi why are past associations "just a distraction" and should have no relation to what a candidate purposes today? Even giving Sen Obama the benefit of believing he did not subscribe to the BVS can't someone question his judgement in continuing his membersip there for many years and then exposing his daughters to its racial annimus.

Sen Obama claims to be someone who can unite us all. I believe that for over 20 years he and his wife were contributing members of a church that preached "God D@mn the USofKKK" and adopted this thinking as part and parcel of its dogma. Anyone with this record now proclaiming unity has sadly deluded many people.



King Liberal admits McCain wins

You know Obama screwed the pooch when King Liberal starts accepting McCain is not so bad.


King Lib
Protecting Rev oh so Wrong and your beloved BO by dismissing any evidence of their obvious racial annimus is typical cranial rectial inversion by a nonthinking lib.


Of course you have your nose so far up BO backside you are in grave danger of contacting lung cancer from that sneaky smoker BO.

BTW: I abhor the KKK just like any thinking American would abhor TUCC. Both are racist hellholes out to destroy America by promoting racial hatred.

The Moralizing Hypocrite Barack Hussein
It is prophetic that in the very scripture that Obama cited [Saddleback Civil Forum] making an attempt to moralize the faults of America, he chose condemnation on his own evil hypocrisy.

A chameleon, now posing as a Christian, he quotes Jesus Christ [Matt. 25] to criticize Americans, saying: "That basic principle applies to poverty. It applies to racism and sexism. It applies to...you know...not having--not thinking about providing ladders of opportunity for people to get into the Middle Class...we still don't spend enough time thinking about the least of these..."

Yet, not only does this same man shrugs his shoulders and advocates AGAINST saving innocent babies; he's thrown his own flesh & blood brother under the bus!!

How dare this self-righteous phony-baloney plastic man lecture the American people on OUR selfishness, quoting Matthew, while talking about "poverty" and "the least of these!!

Now, we learn that he has a brother who lives in abject poverty; a brother he met again two years ago, but has [with all his millions] offered to feed nary a crumb, nor cloth nary a stitch, nor has the "Messaih" done diddly-sqaut to offer unto his own brother anything. Ye hyprocrite!!

Empty suit? I don't know...but one thing I DO know: Only a man with an empty HEART; an empty SOUL would face the cameras & American people, speechifying and preachifying about his being the candidate of "Social Justice."


Before making a mockery of the scriptures, Obama would do well to take a lesson from Proverbs 17:7:

"Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool--how much worse lying lips to a ruler!"

or Proverbs 18:6-7:

"A fool's lips bring him strife, and his mouth invites a beating. A fool's mouth is his undoing, and his lips are a snare to his soul."

Another Great One, Larry!
Obama is just a well-dressed bag of Liberal populist cliche's, slogans and escape clauses. Empty Suit comes to mind. I think that he is just a blind follower of Liberal slogans.

He comes across as someone that has never thought deeply and hard about anything. His only conviction seems to be that he has no convictions. He demonstrates no maturity of thought -- much of like a kid still working through the mysteries of life.

McCain, on the other hand, comes across as well rehearsed only because he has already thought deep and hard about his positions. He has already worked through the nuances, weighed and measured the issue through to a conclusion. That's real conviction. Real passion. Real maturity. That is what grown-ups sound like.

I'm voting for the grown-up.

ODE TO BARAK'S DECLINING POLLS
(sung to the tune of Slip Slidin' Away by Paul Simon)

"Slip Slidin' Away
Slip Slidin' Away..
You know the nearer the election
The more Barak's Slip Slidin' Away!"

Will Please STFU
You want to give the Big O credit for George and Condis success, I don't think so you foolish spinmeister. Did you know that Barack Obama has horrible Body Oder? You didn't know that did you? He also wears his underwear for three to four days before changing them. Just a couple more facts to share with you. Cheers

Barack Obama Is A Lowdown Fraud
Preach to us about what we owe to those in poverty, Mr.Obama.

Quote Jesus, Mr. Obama.

Tell us about how "America is a mean country in 2008," Mrs. Obama.

Say, "white folks greed runs a world in need," Mr. Obama.

Let that baby die in the utility room, Mr. Obama.

Fly around on your shiny Air Force One wannabe airplane in style, Mr. Obama.

While your OWN flesh and blood brother is left by you to live in squalor in a hovel outside Nairobi, Kenya, on $1 a day, and you can't see fit to do a damn thing for him you lowdown fraud.

QUESTION: How many of the readers here would be this cold-hearted to a brother who has nothing while you flaunt your millions?

......
----QUESTION: How many of the readers here would be this cold-hearted to a brother who has nothing while you flaunt your millions?----

OncealwaysaMarine, it's unbelievable; a shame no decent person would be able to live with, especially when you have the means to help. But we shouldn't be surprised, this lowlife bottom feeder supports murdering babies that survive abortions. The democrat party is a gaggle of socialist trash.

Texas a Red State
But I would not vote in this election anyway.

Neither one has addressed the core issue of our time--misguided foreign policy that adversely affects 1.4 billion Muslims on this globe.

At a mosque near your home, a young person none-too-secretly adores Osama bin Laden as the real leader of Arabs and Muslims around the world.

If what I'm saying is true (and try to find out for yourself by reading Scheuer's books), this fact does not bode well for our Homeland Security--not when bombs can be so easily made and used.

Are our leaders even aware of this issue? If not, encourage them to read Buchanan, Bacevich, Scheuer and and increasing number of alarmed and thoughtful Americans.

Read Andrew Bacevich's "The Limits of Power: An End to American Exceptionalism."

Read Scheuer's "Marching Toward Hell" to find out about Islam in the aftermath of Iraq.

I hope the heck he's wrong. But what if he's right? Our invasion of Iraq was a giant free gift to the plans Osama bin Laden has for us.

Both candidate are oblivious to this issue, especially the hawkish, win-at-any-cost McCain.

Deliverance Boy without the banjo
Great column, Mr. Elder. When you hear MSM pundits praise Obama's Saddleback performance as "nuanced," it's a tacit admission the Anointed One lost his (very empty) shirt. "Nuanced" is media-speak for "mealy-mouthed."

Others here have made the same observation as myself, that Obama is an embarrassingly shallow thinker. It really comes out when his teleprompter is taken away. He turns into Deliverance Boy without the banjo.

McCrap...
"Indeed, McCain did seem better prepared -- to lead this country, that is."

Lead this country to what? More wars? More compromises with Democrats? McCain's would be a third Bush term and I think few want that. To the extent he gains, he gains from Obama's apparent shortcomings, but what candidate doesn't have those? It's Americans that lose in this election.

RickV404: Don't you OBAMBIE...
stooges have anything better to do than come on TH and whine? Shouldn't you be at one of Obambie's cult meetings passing out at his feet so he can toss you a water bottle?

Your candidate turned out to be a doofus.

So, as Howard Dean said to Hillary's supporters, GET OVER IT!

One Minute, Please!
Barack Obama
is qualified to be President because he is old enough and he is a native born citizen.

jack from texas
I am tired of hearing about these poor pathetic haters from the blood cult they adhere to.

Muslims were killing each other for centuries before this country was ever founded. Exactly why they suddenly need a new excuse is a pathetic excuse that overlooks their own self hatred.

But you are right, america is wrong to help muslims. We tried to stop the ethnic cleansing that went on in the former yugoslavia. The new result muslims hate the west for helping them.

We went to war to free kuwait from saddam's invasion, the net result muslims hate the west.

We went to iraq to help free a country from a blood thirsty dictator who was brutally murdering his own citizens, the net result the muslims hate us.

It seems that the only thing the muslims want is the right to butcher and murder their fellow muslims.

Western countries allow muslims to emigrate to their country and muslims bring their killing ways with them, including murdering their own family members under the guise of honor killings.

But you are right, we should have cordoned off the whole middle east and let these barbarians kill each other off. In every place muslims are the majority they brutalize all minorities.

But even with their trillions in oil revenues the oil sheiks live in obscene luxury while the masses continue to live in abject poverty and illiteracy.

Better to let them murder each other off. The world would be a far better place with all of these haters finally descending into the hell hole they are digging for themselves. You can't save people from commiting mass suicide although the west has tried to help them but to no avail. So let them continueand the sooner the better

Words to build debate on

JAG CA at 5:04 pm writes: "Why are past associations "just a distraction" and should have no relation to what a candidate proposes today?"


Past associations of a political candidate certainly are relevant, especially for one aspiring to be President of the United States and should be factored into a person's vote.

But since we have only two major choices that evaluation has to be tempered by our estimation of the opposition.

So, while I am disturbed by Barack Obama's past affiliation with Rev. Wright, core issues preclude my voting for John McCain, and I'm sure the same could be said in reverse for Town Hall Bloggers unhappy with some of McCain's positions but are at odds with Obama's views.

But that shouldn't preclude productive civil discussion, which is too often lacking in some blogs.


One Minute, Please!--Unabridged Version
Stefano scrawls with his pink crayon:

"Barack Obama is qualified to be President because he is old enough and he is a native born citizen."

As Eric Engberg likes to say on the CBS Evening Views, "TIME OUT!"

Stefano, how can you possibly say with such imperious certainty that Barack Hussein Muhammad Ubama is a "native born citizen"?

Have you seen Ubama's birth certificate? Has ANYBODY seen it? The answer to both questions is "No", because Ubama has refused to release it for public scrutiny.

There is very strong, albeit as yet unconfirmed, evidence to suggest that BHM Ubama is NOT a "native born citizen" of the United States. He may actually have been born in Kenya, and not in Hawaii, as he has repeatedly claimed.

If this is true, then there is absolutely no way Ubama can possibly be permitted to serve as President of the United States unless the Constitution is amended.

But even if Ubama is telling the truth about being born in Hawaii, he still has a problem due to his ancestry.

For starters, Ubama's father was Kenyan, not American.

Second, and this is where things get really arcane and complicated, even though Ubama's mother WAS an American, she was only eighteen years old when she gave birth to little B Hussein Muhammad; thus, she does not satisfy the constitutional requirement of having been an American citizen for at least ten years prior to Ubama's birth, with not less than five of those years being after her sixteenth birthday.

Call this speculation and rumor, if you like. But there's only one person who can put it all to rest, and so far, he's refused to do it.

wobbie
the sanctimonious hypocrite needs to drop dead. When will you ever get tired of telling everyone here they are wrong but you are never right. That's right, you are without a doubt the most pretentious idiot to visit these threads.

Simply put since you claim to know everything I am sure you can explain the pleasure your received being buggered by these slef haters during your years of military experience.

And again sicko are you still telling about how hot your own daughters look and how you fantasize about being their boyfriend. Or can we assume you already experience daddies little girl

If You Won You Cheated
How many times do we have to keep hearing this? "If I win I did it fair and square and deserved it and if you won you must have cheated" goes the Democrats and their whine. Why am I not surprised this was brought up by the media? This is a no win situation. It's like the old joke "when did you stop beating your wife"? No matter how you answer you lose. It can't be possible that McCain is better informed and prepared to answer these tough questions and Obama isn't. Oh no it can't be that easy an explanation. Of course this is a direct insult to Pastor Warren as an implication that he favored McCain and helped him look better. Does anyone have any proof or is it just true by default because Obama's media people and the MSM say it is and we must accept it? Eight years later the Democrats are still saying Bush stole Florida when the results were examined as many ways as you can count by partisan and non partisan journalistic organizations and even the partisan ones admmited Bush had the votes. Be fearful people. If Obama loses this election the resulting recriminations will make 2000 look like a picnic.

What IS RICH (RE ROPATI)
I agree with Ropati about "what is rich?" nine years ago I had the American dream in my grasp, a good job money in the bank, children serving their country just doing good, etc, etc,, now?? I am at the BOTTOM and expecting to go father down if there is a way to do that .

First I was injured on the job, with the lobbyist working for the insurance company to make sure that I receive NOTHING (as well as fighting for care) that started my slide down hill, add an unscrupulous builder that took off with over $130,000. and no one to help recovered it, that was my second strike, now, add being tax to death ( school tax in New York is over $10,000. per year and rising) add the town tax and you find yourself paying over $14,000. per year in tax for a SMALL 3 bed room home.

Does anyone care that someone not working cant pay out that kind of cash?? hell no!! the fact that I will be on the street soon and all that I had worked for gone , gone, down the drain just another "someone bight the dust"day in the great big U.S of A.

Do these contenders for the White house care about the little man and their plights?, the cost of a loaf of bread, a gallon of milk books and clothes for children returning to school, families unable to get to work because they cannot afford the price of gas? or HOW MANY FAMILIES WILL DIE THIS WINTER BECAUSE THEY CANNOT AFFORD THE HIGH COST OF HEATING OIL????

We send food ,money over sea's to help in times of trouble, WELL AMERICA AND AMERICANS ARE SUFFERING WHERE IS THE HELP????
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