Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Thursday, March 20, 2008
Larry Elder :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama: From Valiant to Victicrat
by Larry Elder
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


Billed as an "important speech about race," presidential candidate Barack Obama condemned some of the remarks of his pastor, Jeremiah Wright. But Obama refused to denounce the man himself, considering him family. Commentators gushed over this "groundbreaking," "stirring" speech about the "state of race relations in America."

Funny, some people actually thought that Obama might explain why he chose and attends a church led by a hateful, anti-Semitic, racist America-condemning pastor, a man whom Obama refers to as his "spiritual advisor."

Long before the blowup over Barack Obama's pastor, I wrote about this angry, "Afrocentric" church in my new book, "Stupid Black Men: How to Play the Race Card -- and Lose."

"Barack Obama," I wrote, "attends Chicago's popular Trinity United Church of Christ. He described its minister, Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., as his 'spiritual mentor.' On its Web site, Trinity United Church of Christ describes itself: 'We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. … It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.'

"Consider the grief President George W. Bush attracted when he gave a speech at Bob Jones University, an institution that formerly banned interracial dating. Imagine a Republican attending a church that professed 'Caucasian-centric' Bible readings. According to an article in Rolling Stone, Reverend Wright said, 'Racism is how this country was founded and this country is still run! … We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional KILLERS. … We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. … We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. … We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means! And. And. And! GAWD! Has GOT! To be SICK! OF THIS S***!'

"Jeremiah Wright also helped to organize the Million Man March, spearheaded by the anti-Semitic, homophobic, anti-Catholic Minister Louis Farrakhan. Wright also, accompanied by Farrakhan, visited Muammar el-Qaddafi of Libya. In an interview about whether this kind of activity might hurt Obama's prospects, Wright said, 'When his enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli (to visit Qaddafi) with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell.'

"At the first Sunday service following the terrorist attacks of 9/11, Wright preached that the attacks were a consequence of violent U.S. policies. And four years later, Wright wrote that the 9/11 attacks were proof that 'people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just disappeared as the Great White West went on its merry way of ignoring Black concerns.'"

Wright's musings -- part David Duke, part Louis Farrakhan and part Moe from the Three Stooges -- include the following:

-- "We started the AIDS virus. … We are only able to maintain our level of living by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty. …"

-- "God damn America … for killing innocent people. God damn America for threatening citizens as less than humans. God damn America as long as she tries to act like she is God and supreme."

-- "We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki. And we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye. We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because of stuff we have done overseas is now brought back into our own backyard. America is chickens coming home to roost."

-- "The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied."

-- "Barack knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary would never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a nigger. Hillary has never had a people defined as a nonperson."

Obama gave a soaring speech at the Democratic National Convention in 2004, in which he said, "There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America. There is not a black America and a white America and Latino America and Asian America. There is the United States of America. … We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America."

Once upon a time, Obama actually told "60 Minutes'" Steve Kroft, "I think if I don't win this race, it will be because of other factors. It's gonna be because I have not shown to the American people a vision for where the country needs to go that they can embrace."

Oh, well. It was nice while it lasted.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Larry Elder is a syndicated radio talk show host and best-selling author. His latest book, "What's Race Got to Do with It?" is available now.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to read Larry Elder's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
 
©Creators Syndicate
Actually
Actually if one is looking for the vision Obama pointed to one can find it in his speech on Tuesday. Presumably that is why Elder's critique of Obama's speech ignored Obama's speech.

I still hope that the presidential race turns on something other than racial issues. If it does, Obama will be the next president. Of course people who would never have voted for Obama will express their horror, while ignoring the rantings of Hagee because he supports the candidate he likes.

The interesting question though is whether the block of votes in the middle that will ultimately decide the election cares more about the views of Obama's preacher or if they care more about the economy and the war in Iraq. Or for that matter whether they are happy to see a discussion of race that goes beyond the played out fight between the Wrights and Elders of the world.

Yeah...care about economy
as if Obama could turn the economy up side down in an instant. Oh well, for liberal left, Obama is the savior--the savior of the economy, the savior of the racial issue albeit that he cares more of blacks than other human beings, the savior of the globe. Ahhh, the liberal left suddenly needs a god...and they find it in Obama.

The problem with race in America is, the liberal needs the issue to be played all the time...but only to their advantage. Who are among the left that have ever been labeled as racists? Almost nil, nada, zero.

But among the conservatives? Well, perhaps countless.


Truth Shall Set You Free
Given Elder's incredibly readable, insightful, poignant book, Stupid Black Men: How to Play the Race Card--and Lose, that he absolutely nails it here is no surprise. Obama's unsuccessful attempt to salvage his campaign was devoid of any acknowledgement of individual responsibility for failure. We are to believe special interests and evil corporate America explain sky-high ilegitimacy rates and all he accompanying dysfunctionality. Those who have read another of Elder's excellent books, Ten Things You Can't Say In America, realize Elder isn't afraid of truth. California has the Terminator and now the Dems have The Equivocator. The race card is now the joker. Thanks Reverend Hate. Thanks BO.

Where is Rev. Wright?
i would love to hear the Rev. Wright's comments about all of this. Rumors are that he went to Africa. How convenient that no one can speak to him about his comments and what he thinks of his prize pupil turning on him.

If we could get a true answer out of him I am willing to bet it would be along the lines of white america being at fault. And then who knows what the rest of his rant would be.

Lon
I have read on a couple of threads dealing with Wright comments concerning Hagee. One described him as "frothing at the mouth". You refer to his "rantings". What did he say, when did he say it, and to whom was it said? Specifically, what has been said? I remember Falwell's and Robertson's 911 remarks but am unfamiliar with what the Hagee comments are about.

am i hearing that
an American is not qualified to be President because of the church he attends?

is that the bottom line here?

than what other churches disqualify you to be President?

who decides what churches are on this list?

what criteria is used to determine whether this church or that church preaches the "right" kind of sermon?

my mother in-law (God rest her soul) was one of the most religious people i have ever known.

a new priest came to the parish that she believed had embezzled money.

she was convinced he was a criminal.

she actually put it in her will that he was not to officate her funeral.



yet, for 15 years she attended that church because it was her Gods church and her church and that was more important than any priest.

is the argument that one man makes a church?

that is not what most Christians believe.

They believe a congregation of believers makes a church.




Or a cult, Religiouslib
The issue plain and simple is the hateful Rev. Wright has "mentored" Obama, like an "uncle" for more than two decades.

It's now widely known that this close mentor:
1. Hates America
2. Hates Jews
3. Hates whites
4. Visited a terrorist with another racist minister, Louis Farrakhan.

We are all judged by the company we keep, and rightfully Obama is now being judged harshly. He hypocritically posed as a "uniter" while taking counsel from one of this nation's most vile, racial dividers.

That's the issue, Religiouslib

This Obama to lead our great America?
He does not even have the gonads to stand tall. Tosses his GMa under the bus and plays mamby pamby with Wright so he won't lose the blacks that admire Wright.

His wife leaked the truth and now the whole nasty business is out. It is going to cause the whites to rethink their constraint. The claims that we invented AIDS to kill Africans. The claims that we give blacks drugs so we can build more prisons and lock them up.

He sticks with this guy. Yet he will be in a position to send whitey to war....Puke.

Don Jones
MyManJohn.com

Obama's Vision For America - No Deal
Elder, you crack me up. Well, it was good while it lasted. Obama has clearly shown americans his vision for america, and americans will cleary say, no thank you! Once upon a time, there lived a great orator who had everything going for him in running for president, until his mentor/advisor decided to get out of the race closet. And americans realized, they did not want a president who was mentored by a lunatic who believed the govt. created the AIDS virus to destroy black people. Good bye Obama, remember grandma's fears? You should have stayed away from angry racist black men.

religiouslib, its not the church its the
mentor/advisor relationship with an angry racist lunatic. And the lying that he (Obama) had never heard Wright say anything controversial in private or in public ( he forgot to wag his finger). The economy and war need to be influenced by a man who believes in "God Bless America". Have you ever heard Barak say that? Then, "damn him and his vision for "God Damn America" - back to the inner city of Chicago where Wright his beloved mentor/advisor can be found inciting anger and racism.

You know, I think it's really high-time
for the 90% of Republicans who are not racists, to stand up strongly against anyone of these liberal Democrats that slander and lie about us as being the uncaring, hateful and racist party. Anyone of we conservatives who is called or accused of being a racist should come back against the accuser and make him prove his accusation and with the real threat of a law suit. I believe that being a racist is a very nasty and serious offense and therefore should not be taken lightly. It for far too long is being used and thrown at totally innocent people, way too long and should no longer be tolerated. The real racists are most of the people who are always running around calling other people racists. There is always going to be racists in the world, that’s something they will have to pay for, but the big majority of Americans, especially most Republicans are not racists and it’s time that These racist Democrats grow out of it and become decent Americans who really do want the best for ALL Americans.

Republicans always have been the color blind party who has over the generations proven so by actions, not words. It is well documented throughout history. Lincoln was a Republican, Martin Luther King was a Republican (in fact he’s crying in heaven over how his message of a color blind, God fearing, God Loving American society has been so twisted and tainted with division and hate, by so many Black leaders even some Black Ministers), It was the larger number of Republican Senators and Congressmen that got the Real and True equal rights laws passed, there were more Democrats against those laws than were Republicans. The Republican party has always been for Real Equal Rights for every American regardless of the color of a person’s skin, nationality or gender…


And Another Thing
The Republican Party has been putting Women, Black, Hispanics and Asians in very high offices for years. The Democrat Party has not come close to what the Republicans have done. The Democrats So-Called leaders and their Black leaders and now even allot of their Hispanic leaders are the ones who are always calling people racists who obviously are not racists. It is truly despicable and needs to stop. They are the real racists because all they ever do is divide people into groups according to their race, color or gender and then will say and promise anything to their supporters just to get their vote and then never really come through for them. Think about it carefully, you hardly ever hear Republican leaders or most Republican’s period, ever talk about class or race divisions, unless it’s in response to some stupid and hateful remark a Democrat says…

AND the Democrat Platform is so against what God’s word says, this is not even debatable if you’ve read and know his word. Abortion on demand, Class envy, lying and deception of the people. They want God and the bible out of the class room; they can study anything but Christianity. They’ve completely twisted and turned around Thomas Jefferson’s meaning of the separation of Church & State. It was not to allow government to set up a national or state Church (like the Church of England was), but it was not to keep the people from being able to have God and bible influencing government. The founders set up America and our freedoms and laws based on the bible and they the founders said we are a Christian Nation. Every other nation in the world is either a Christian nation, a Hindu nation, Muslim or Jewish nation or what ever. In America we are a Christian nation founded on the God of the Bible and because of his unalienable rights, we all have the right and freedom to choose our religion…

Obama is still on message
Obama still sounds like the same Obama. His speech included more of Reverend Wright then was needed, because once again those were the Reverends words and not Obamas. Seeing how that makes no difference, and it' the double standard which is why Obama had to make the speech in the first place. Will Hillary come out with her speech after Ferraro's racist comments about Obama. Of course not. Hillary's rejection was accepted and all is forgotten. Obama is now a racist, anti American, closet Muslim, Manchurian candidate, and a Marxist. That's only today. Tomorrow the list will be even longer. It's a myth about Obama's glow and being the Messiah. That was just propaganda to make attacking Obama more convincing. Obama's opponents can make the tape mean what ever they want it to. It wasn't the denouncing that wasn't in the speech, Obama already rejected what the Reverend said. Obama didn't disown the Reverend, and that's what is ticking off Obama's attackers, because they thought Obama was going to do to Reverend Wright what they dictated Obama should do to please them.

O Liberals-O Liberals
How ever ignorant for you to believe conservatives are to fall for your total lies, corruption and idiotic lunacy...

I love to laugh at how you think you can fool us like you can the mindless sheep that believes the obvious folly and deception of the Democrat party. It sickens me as to just how sick people can become to actually con themselves into believing such blatant lies and how they can turn and run from obvious truth and wisdom…

Weather you liberals want to believe it or not there is truth and lies and right and wrong. Sadly Lib’s seem to prefer to be on the Wrong side of Truth…

Liberation Theology
Jeremiah Wright said that James Cone had a great deal of influence on him. Obama said Wright had a great deal of influence on him.

James Cones words:

"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. . . . Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love".
James Cone
New York's Union Theological Seminary

Sorry to go on but this is it.
Obama's speech was nothing more than excusing extremely bad behavior. Every person has their own hell to deal with on this earth. We all have to learn from it and go through it in the right way so God can then bless us for choosing the correct way through it. What is the purpose of Wright's preaching? Does it solve anything ore does it cause strife and division? Is he helping his congregation in any way? What are the children learning from these kinds of sermons? Are they becoming and learning to be, loving Americans who would lay down their life for a friend, no matter what color they are? I’m sorry but I just can't see in any way what Wright's sermons do for really making America a color blind country. Can any one answer these ????’s

I would still
I would still like to know why the Rev. Wright is preaching politics in the pulpit and not the word of GOD? I was always under the impresion that you went to church to hear about God and not politics. AM I wrong?

Johnny M.
You are right and wrong...

According to the Constitution of the USA and the Founders and signers of it, yes we should be able to talk about politics in Church, but according to how the Supreme Court has misinterpreted the Constitution on the subject you can't discuss Politics in Church...

So according to the S. Court the (I will not call this man a reverend or Pastor) Wolf in Sheeps Clothing-Wright is going against the law and the IRS and could lose their Tax exempt status...

Forget about Nobama's speech on race
and listen to his 52-second speech on how he will disarm the USA and leave us completely vulnerable to foreign attack:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl32Y7wDVDs

Religiouslib
Along your lines, my mother when she was a teenager attended a temple where the rabbi was ranting and frothing about the Germans. What did she do?

She left the temple and went to a different one. Trust me, there is a temple in every neighborhood and a church on every corner. Obama had options. He made a choice. He chose to remain with Radical Wright. He also:

1. Had Wright marry both him and Michelle, baptized his children, and bless his home.

2. His book Audacity of Hope was inspired by Wright, as Obama said, his spiritual mentor.

3. Obama is 1/2 white and specifically chose a black radical church out of all the churches in Chicago for social and political gain. There are dozens of black churches on the south side of Chicago that do charitable work for blacks as well, without the hate mongering and racism.

4. If Obama were the True Uniter, wouldn't he have chosen a church that accepts and loves all colors and races, that preaches brotherly love and the Bible, while being charitable to all people in need?

5. Oprah attended Wright church in 1984 and left immediately. Why? Because she couldn't abide by Wright's racist rants and did not want to associate with the likes of him.

6. Obama and his staff decided not to have Wright be part of his campaign due to his radicalism. Obviously they all knew it would kill Obama's chances.

7. Wright has left the country.

This is more than just not liking a man for his church. That place wasn't any church I know of. That place was a gathering of hate spew.

As usual,Larry distorts the subject
“Consider the grief President George W. Bush attracted when he gave a speech at Bob Jones University, an institution that formerly banned interracial dating.”

Trinity doesn’t ban anyone from coming to the church because of their skin color and the church has many white members. I doubt these white members are so racially misguided that they would attend a church that discriminates against them. That would be like blacks becoming members of the KKK, it just doesn’t make sense. Also, the church doesn’t ban anyone for attendance based upon them dating someone outside their race. This comparison that Elder is making is intellectually dishonest.

“Imagine a Republican attending a church that professed 'Caucasian-centric' Bible readings.”

“White organizations” or ”Caucasian-centric” have themselves to blame for the negative connotation they receive. Historically White organizations have preached the inferiority and cultural degradation of other races and have engaged in cultural genocide. The Nazi’s and the KKK are prime examples of this. Despite criticism of what some deem as pro black or pro African organizations, Pro black or Pro African organizations don’t have a history of burning crosses, lynching, and cultural extermination the way so called “White Organizations” or 'Caucasian-centric'” organizations do. The primary things that so called Pro black organizations advocate are self help and self determination within their own communities, something many conservatives advocate


“According to an article in Rolling Stone, Reverend Wright said, 'Racism is how this country was founded and this country is still run!”

This country was founded on racism and for much of its history thrived economically because of the marginalization of blacks and other ethnic groups, this is just a fact. Cleary this country is not run in the same manor that it was in 1960, but that doesn’t mean that racism is no longer a factor in American culture.


Larry distorts p2
“We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional KILLERS”

Lets not play dumb here. Lets’ not forget that The US provided weapons to Iraq during the Iraq/Iran war, and that the US imported drugs into this country as a result of the Iran/Contra affair

“We conducted radiation experiments on our own people”

DO Americans not know what the Tuskegee experiment was? Please read the following link if you don’t.

http://www.tuskegee.edu/Global/Story.asp?s=1207586

Obama
Obama made a wonderful speech!!!

However, Just like his other wonderful speeches, it was all a bunch of Poetic Crap!

He basically said that he can understand how his Pastor can be a American Hating, White Hating Racist.

Because his grandmother was a Racist, and Geraldine Ferraro is a Racist, and Talk show host are racist.

You see, his Pastor is just another victim of the Racist, Bigot society that envelopes all of America.

But in the 20 years of listening to his Pastors hate speech, he has learned how to bridge the gap between the Racist Black Victims and the Guilty White Racist Bigots!

Just like he has learned to work with Republicans in bipartisanship by consistently voting against them on every major issue.

And as the true Socialist Liberal that he is, he ended his speech telling us we need to tax the hell out of the greedy white racist, along with all other people that work, and use it to provide social programs for the Victims.

As Usual He did not say "GOD BLESS YOU!" or "GOD BLESS AMERICA!"

How Telling!

Obama: From Valiant to Victicrat
Obama's speach finally reveals a tinny dark corner segment of his soul. His acceptance, association and close relationship with Rverend Wright tells us he is NOT acceptable to be the President of the USA. Case closed!

E Pluribus Unum
To believe Obama's speech is to believe that all Blacks are Racist and hate America.

To believe Obama's speech is to believe all Whites are Racist and Segregationist.
It is OK, or even, commendable for a Church to teach "Pride In Race"

It is Evil and Demonic for a Church to Teach Hatred of anyone or any Race!

Why is it a Crime in many Black Communities, "To be White" or "To Act White"?
Why are successful Conservative Black Men called sellouts and Uncle Toms by these Black communities?

Why is it, that when a Black Child does well in school, that other Black children ridicule his efforts and accuse him of "Acting White"?

Why is White America blamed for the large prison population of black men, most of whom are there for committing violent crimes against other Blacks.

Why is it that when Bill Cosby speaks of personal responsibility in the black community, he is called Uncle Tom and told to Shut Up!

I fear for the Black Community as a whole.

There are too many people out there Preaching Anti-White, Anti-American "Gangster" Black Nationalism.

We need less Jesse Jackson, Reverend Wright, and Al Sharpton - Preaching Victimization and Hate.

We need more Larry Elder, Harry R. Jackson, Armstrong Williams, Thomas Sowell, Bill Cosby and Juan Williams - Preaching Unification and Personal Responsibility!

E Pluribus Unum - Out of Many, One


Obama's Speech on Race
It is useful to listen to Obama make his own case, rather than depend on someone with a different agenda to interpret for you.......
http://thefiresidepost.com/2008/03/20/obamas-speech-on-race -video-and-text/

Well done Larry
So many want to make this much more complicated than it is. Has Pastor Wright ever heard of MoveOn.Org? I've never visited the site but shouldn't we all just move on rather than have people like him, and so many liberals dragging us backwards instead of forwards?

Spend as much energy preaching a color blind society from the pulpit and we could be that much closer. Never all the way there but closer than we are today. Unless libs really don't want that (I'm kidding because that is all they want).

Questions need to be answered.
Obama needs to be asked why he allows his children to be indoctrinated by this Separatist church if he does not embrace their very strong teachings. Why he would go to a church that awarded Farrakhan a life achievement award. He needs to be asked if he has ever attended a meeting, public or private, where Mr Farrakhan was present.
Allowing his children to be indoctrinated by this church says a great deal.
I would walk out of my white majority church if such devisive, ungodly sentiments were expressed or accepted.
Even behind closed doors I would disassociate myself with anyone who tore down the Black race ... or Red or Yellow, Brown or White. I believe most people of integrity would.

PS (in response to earlier letter)
Of course we, as individuals, take into consideration the very foundational core of the person we are considering for president. What fools we would be if we did not weigh in one's philosophical foundation, including the type of spiritual affiliation they have chosen to nurture themselves and their family.

Obama's Race Speech
Obama's choice of aligning himself with such a hate-race-baiting "preacher," who proclaims such lies and insights Americans to victim hood and division proves where Obama's beliefs are based. Obama is a confused angry person who does not know where he belongs, much less who he is. Americans do not OWE Obama any vote - we do not OWE any one - male/female/white/black/orange/purple/neuter - our vote.
Obama is a dissembler - his anger is seething - it s real - and it has NOTHING to do with the United States and everything to do with Obama's self-confusion about his place and his person. He is lost and we do not owe him and we cannot give him the path to truth or the path to the self. The audacity Obama preaches he fails to seize for himself - to discover who he is and what he believes. No "blank slate" deserves my vote for anything. Obama's audacity is even considering running for the presidency and counting on people to give it to him because for some ugly twisted mean nasty false reason, Obama believes he has a right to it. The American people owe NOTHING to any one and everything to their country. Martin Luther King knew that hate distorts personality. King said: "The man who hates can't think straight; the man who hates can't reason right; the man who hates can't see right; the man who hates can't walk right." That man is Obama. The media has the right and the duty to expose him. Stop smoking Obama's false hope. As Mr. Shelby Steele has stated: “No matter his ultimate political fate, there is already enough pathos in Barack Obama to make him a cautionary tale. His public persona thrives on a manipulation of whites (bargaining), and his private sense of racial identity demands both self-betrayal and duplicity…” Such a person should have no political power. Obama thinks Americans are fools and blind. We are neither. We don’t have to “wait for the tide to go out to know this swimmer is naked.”

Lets be colorblind.
I'll be blunt. There will always be a small segment of our society which will be racist. All we can do as a nation is make laws preventing it from interfering with equal opportunity and enforcing them. As a society, we can condemn and ostrasize those who would propagate racism. We must become colorblind. This means no unfair favoritism or persecution of any person because of color or race. People need to stop propagating racial hatred. How many years must we fight. If we want unity this must be our creed. People like Rev. Write and others must be stopped. Obama should have quit (just like Oprah did). The fact that he didn't shows lack of judgement. This is what he built his carreer on. It should now end. His latest speech only shows that he is either a slick racist or an enabler of racist. Twent years of close association can't be spun away. He needs to be made an example of. Racist come in all colors.

Libs changing the subject
religiouslib writes: Thursday, March, 20, 2008 1:56 AM
"am i hearing that
an American is not qualified to be President because of the church he attends?

is that the bottom line here?"

No religiouslib. Again, the point is not what church he attended but that he had such lack of judgement to attend a church like this for 20 years. If he can tolerate this racist antiAmerican ranting for so long how do we expect him to stand up to our sworn enemies? Stop trying to obfuscate, most people are not as gullible as blind as Obama followers and the media.

reply to MAVsaysTRUTHman
Although your comments are quite vague, I think you are one of those conservativs who doesn't know much about the histories of the Democratic and the Republican parties, and the roles played by the parties during the era of the civil rights movement.

First, the present-day ideological configuration of the two parties is quite recent; in the 1960s the Republican party was not primarily conservative. It had a strong center and a liberal wing--now called RINOs--and a small conservative wing. The Democrats had both a large liberal and a large conservative wing, as well as a moderate center.

Second, if we focus just on the 1964 Civil Rights Act and its Congressional support, liberal (mostly northern) Democrats and liberal/moderate Republicans supported it, while conservative Southern Democrats and the small number of genuinely conservative Republicans opposed it.

Third, throughout the 1970s the Republicans became a more conservative party, shedding most of its moderates and liberals,(and gained white support in the South), while the Democrats became a more liberal party, shedding most of their conservatives.

Fourth, if you dig deeper, you'll find that intellectual conservatives (Buckley, most 'National Review' writers, and the 'Human Events' writers, among others) opposed ALL aspects of the Civil Rights movement, thereby making clear the true conservative position on these issues.

For Lon and All Who "Think" Like Him:
"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance."
~ Laurence J. Peter

(Hint: Larry Elder is the one with the logic.)

Lon
How can anyone possibly equate Rev. Wright with Larry Elder? Ludicrous hyperbole...

Anthony Thomas - - -
"... the church has many white members."

They're just self-haters.

Wildwest
I agree with you 100%.

Futhermore, let's explore his judgement.

Let's say Obama really didn't know Wright was a racist and never heard his ranting, nor heard about it--like he claimed in the beginning.

How can a man who wants to be the leader of the most powerful country with the most powerful military not know of a simple thing like Wright's radicalism, when Wright was in his own backyard? He went to his church for 20 years, he was married by him, he baptized his children and blessed his home....and yet, Obama had no clue.

So, what does this say about his judgment when he deals with hostile foreign officials? "He promised he had no nuclear weapons...OOoops!"

And if Obama knew Wright was a radical, which we all know is the only logical answer because we're not idiots...then where did his own personal judgement lead him? To a hate mongering racist that hates white people enough to say we deserved our 911. Is this why Obama didn't wear his flag pin and said he was ashamed of our country after 911? Is this why he didn't put a hand on his heart? Is this why he had a picture of Che Gueverra (sp) in his office?

I don't trust his judgement...either way.

AnthonyThomas
"This country was founded on racism and for much of its history thrived economically because of the marginalization of blacks and other ethnic groups, this is just a fact. "
Not really. Look at slavery's impact.
States that maintainted slavery up until the Civil War were not thriving economically in comparison to free states.

It's a BLACK thang...
Barack Obama could no more renounce his pastor of twenty years any more than he could renounce his white Grandma? His Grandma, bless her heart wiped his little bottom and sent him off to school, his pastor thinks it's ok to perpetuate a myth about the United States government inflicting the plague of AIDS specifically against "people of color" without EVER mentioning the FACT that Planned Parenthood was founded by Margaret Sanger--a real racist eugenicist who was determined to do away with what she felt were less desirable races. Planned Parenthood carries on a real genocide against blacks right under their noses, and these folks vote in the very party behind the perpetuation of the slaughter. I'm OK with Grandma feeling a little fear now and then, I'm NOT OK with the Pastor riling up his congregation to believe absolute rubbish as reality. What Obama might as well have said is "I can't renounce either of these folks because it's a BLACK thang, y'all just wouldn't get it"...

jonah goldberg is no libera
Rhetorically, his address in Philadelphia represented a historic achievement. The Democratic front-runner, the first viable black presidential candidate, showed that a liberal can, in fact, abandon the calcified talking points and buzzwords of racial discourse that have slowed progress. Democratic politicians have carried the baggage of black victimology and white guilt for generations. Whenever Republican candidates have tried to advance our politics without such baggage, Democrats have yelled, “Here, catch,” and crushed them with it.



This, for me, was the thrilling part of Obama’s speech: For a moment, he put down the albatross.

He sang the praises of the Founding Fathers and the implicit promise they made to all Americans, not just to white men. He denounced his former pastor’s denigration of the “greatness and the goodness of our nation.” He partially acknowledged the moral legitimacy of what he too narrowly calls the American “immigrant experience,” which rejects the idea that a man today is responsible for the sins of others long dead. He recognized that the black community is too quick to blame outside forces for its own problems. He blamed the Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s biliousness on an antiquated worldview enmeshed in a “static” view of this wonderfully fluid nation.

Yes, he refused to fully denounce Wright, but he managed to seem like he was grounding his refusal in love and personal loyalty while still making it clear that Wright’s words were unacceptable. In effect, he says he loves the sinner but hates the sin. In this age where politicians throw their inconvenient passengers under the bus after the first pothole, this was refreshing even if it was intellectually wanting.

Why no Jesse under the bus?
I saw Barry was happy to throw granny under the bus, but why not Jesse Jackson too. he said several years ago that when he walked at night and turned around and saw the person following him was white and not black, he was relieved. Oh the humanity of honesty!!

Jeremiah & Barack's theme song
(with apologies to Lee Greenwood)

Jeremiah knows the one to blame for all my poverty,

Yes whatever ails me it caused by old Whitey,

And I'm ashamed to be an American where I know that I'm a slave,

And don't forget the whites who tried to keep their chains on me,

Yes I'll squat next to you and dump on her today,

Cause there ain't no doubt I hate this land, God
d@@n the USA.

Maybe Michelle Obama could put this out as a solo.

Religiouslib
When I listen to you rationalize Obama's speech, I can't help but find myself thinking of an abused wife who makes excuses for her wife-beater husband.

"Sure he punches me when his his dinner is cold but I can tell he's really sorry about it. He told me this morning he doesn't mean to beat me, it's just that my face was in the way of the wall. He really does love me."

Religiouslib, my friend, you're not being honest with yourself here. If Magic 8 Balls really worked, we all could ask "Was Obama deliberate in choosing Pastor Wright and are his excuses today merely excuses to lull the public?"

The Magic 8 Ball would say, "Yes, definitely"

Larry - not fair!
How dare you insult Moe as you do - what came out of his mouth made much more sense than Rev. Wright. You owe him and the Stooges an apology - and it better be sincere!

B. Hussein is a COWARD!
He doesn't have the fortitude to be a true uniter. His approach is to tell one side of the equation to suck it up and live with it. To attempt otherwise, would require him to chastise both blacks and whites for insensitive comments and racist attitudes.

No doubt he would quickly join the ranks of the other Uncle Toms if he ever spoke against the likes of Wright, Jackson, Sharpton, and others! He would rather commit political suicide than do that.

reply to wildwest
Apart from the very far right, you're absolutely correct. These days most conservatives have consumed enough liberal PC koolaid so they can embrace MLK and say good things about the civil rights movement. That's great; all I was trying to do was remind conservatives of their own real--not illusory--history on civil rights. It's so weird that today's conservatives don't know jack about the history of their own movement. This lack of understanding makes me doubt their conservative credentials. As I'm fond of saying, today's so-called conservatives are really right-wing populists. Consider: conservatism has degenerated from Bill Buckley to Ann Coulter--and most conservatives today can't even see the differences!

bottom line: if you dont like obama
then dont vote for him...

it's that simple repubs/cons, who are you trying to convince other than yourselves? You were not
goint to vote for him in the first place.

LMAO
I have told my friends and family from the beginning that you don't get very far in Chicago politics without having some dirt on your shoes. Period. Wright is only the start of the Obamas problems to come out. As a gay black man I know I'm not welcome in the vast majority of black churches. So, I've always been suspect of Obamas religious associations. However, some of you here want to claim anyone who has experienced racsim is a "victicrat". I can tell you right now I have experienced serious racism. Strangely though it's never been from straight white people. Gay people, who are supposed to be so "we are the world" are actually the most hateful racists I have dealt with in my life. You know when you walk in the door after being asked for 3(!) pieces of id that you aren't welcome as your white friend breezes in with "have fun". I'm not bitter about it, it's the way it is. But please don't sit here and deny racism exists. And yes, minorities are racist too. Racism is stupid no matter who it's coming from. Don't try to turn it around as if white racism is ok just because there are colored racists. I also need to say i think the only campaign that has played the race card over and over is the Obama campaign. To turn the Clintons into racists took some serious doing. Many white's hate the Clintons specifically because of their affinity with blacks. And isn't it a little racist that 80% of blacks are voting for Obama? How many of that 80% can even name one of his policy goals? It seems to me blacks are voting on color, not issues.

I am shocked!
How can a white man like Larry Elder know what it is like to face discrimination? If he were black he would understand... Oh, wait... Never mind.

And my real point:

Obama's speech, and the comment son it, seem to suggest that ever black person in America is just a seething mass of hatred, so Wright's speech is perfectly understandable.

But the fact that many, many blacks have nothing in common with Wright and do believe in his diatribes makes it clear that Obama's speech is nothing more than a rationalization of his friendship with an angry militant. It may have been good for Obama's early career, but when that this friendship became a liability, he first tried to hide it, and now he tries to justify it. But I am not buying his justification, neither the "crazy old uncle" one, nor the "all the blacks are doing it" one.

And I thought he was a "different kind of politician". Sounds pretty much like your run of the mill politico to me.

P.S.
Where is Obamas white family?

Typos
The 3d paragraph should start:


Obama's speech, and the comments on it, seem to suggest that every black person in America...

Sorry about that.

And one more typo
Obviously it should read "do NOT believe in his diatribes", otherwise it makes no sense.

I should proofread a bit better.

wildwest
I usually agree with anything Mr. Elder writes. However, if Moe of the Three Stooges were alive, he should be insulted to be linked with the likes of Farrakhan and David Duke. Including Moe in the discussion creates the un-intended result of upgrading the views and thought processes of those two hate mongers.

religious lib
You asked: "am i hearing that an American is not qualified to be President because of the church he attends?"

"Not qualified" doesn't exactly explain it.
"Not electable" would be more accurate.
Two different things.
There are other reasons he's not qualified.

Thevegasstyleguy
Bravo! I enjoyed your post and agree with you. I haven't seen you much on TH but I hope you will be a constant contributer. It's nice to hear other people's experiences who are rational and unbiased. Straight talk, I like.

One thing I will have to disagree with, you made a comment why many white people dislike the Clintons, which was, because of their affinity with blacks.

I think that is probably lowest on the list of Top 100 Things Why Whites Hate Clintons, LOL. Seriously.

The Clintons have a lot of baggage, a lot of negative history, which we all not be reminded of *cough* Monica *cough* whitewater *cough.*

They are a politcal machine and together, they are not quite so much a Dynamic Duo, but moreso a Bonnie and Clyde.

The only thing that bothered me about Hillary when it came to race was how she would change her accent and attempt to sound black. I don't know if I were black if I would find it insulting. But as a Jew, if she came out to my temple speaking like Jackie Mason, I'd probably plotz.

anthony
Most of what you talk about is history.
My question for you is:
How is one supposed to "prove" to you that one has not forgotten about it and is not in denial...wear a t-shirt or something? Bring it up often in conversation?

Most of us thought that we were supposed to treat our friends, neighbors and colleagues with welcome and respect regardless of color, and have been trying to do that (walk the walk). Seems you prefer those who talk the talk.

Exactly what do you propose people do to make things "better"?

thevegasstyleguy
Regarding your final three sentences:

Of course Obama's supporters can't mention one of his policies they support. Obama can't mention which of his own policies he supports. Mainly because he has yet to adopt any actual policies.

Seriously. I went through his campaign "blueprint" on my blog, and the guy is the most vague politician I have ever seen. The few concrete statements are either things every politician supports ("transparency", being against "undue influence") or have vague conditions to let him weasel out (tax cuts for "working families"-- does that include Bill and Melinda Gates? Or those making $200K? Or only under $100K? See how it can be made anything you want?) The rest are things like "universal health care", with no details, or even more vague goals, like "being for trade". (Yes, he writes so vague a statement I don't know if he is protectionist, free trader or what. You just can't tell.) Nothing he says allows anyone to pin him down on what he will do once elected.

If the guy has no position, how can his followers support him on substance? Either people vote for him because of race, or because of looks, or his glib tongue, or because they "like" him, or because he is a Democrat, whatever. But it certainly isn't on his positions.

Anthony
The media capitalized on the fact that "fundamentalist" has been successfully turned into a dirty word and that the public has so little knowledge of places like BJU.

For one, it is a private school with voluntary enrollment and acceptance of very stringent social rules.

Two, they reversed the policy with BJ III telling Larry King that they did so because there was no biblical basis for it. If people understood the gravity of that statement to people who attend or support BJU... they'd realize it was a completely dead issue at that moment. These are people who believe what the Bible says... saying the Bible doesn't teach it is equivalent to saying "The subject is closed for debate".

Three, what is considered a "date" at BJU would not be recognized as a plutonic escort in most places. Things that are forbidden and strictly enforced at BJU: intimate hugging, holding hands, romantic contact of any sort in public, 1 on 1 dating, couples together in a closed room,... IOW's, NO ONE DATES AT BJU.

BTW, BJU has accepted mixed race married couples since the rule was made and channels missionaries into all parts of the world including Africa.

hi shells
i went through a very rigorous discussion with myself (talking to myself i guess lol) about what i thought about wright and obama.

i threw out some of my thoughts here at townhall to see if my conservative friends could poke holes in them.

i considered alot of perspectives and listened carefully to what all had to say.

i truely agonized about it.

i thought about romney and whether he should be judged by some of the "out of the mainstream" beliefs the mormon church holds.

i thought about catholics who don't agree with their pope or their bishop but continue to attend anyway.

i came to an inescapable conclusion that we must judge a politician by his expressed personal beliefs not by his religious affiliation.

i mean do we have freedom of religion in
America or not.

exactly how far do we take this guilt by association.

who does judge what church and pastor are acceptable and which aren't.

you know me well enough to know i don't blindly follow political dogma, i make up my own mind.

like sun the 1 (whom i respect alot) says he may not be unqualified but is unelectable.

well that is a political decision, and that is accepatable and is based on the right notions.

to say he is unqualified because of the church he attends or the pastor he listens too is un-american.

i still haven't decided who i support obama or hillary or maybe even a third party but i will make my decision based on their politics not on their religion.




religiouslib and Anthony
Are you both saying that we can cure racism as long as we allow racism in churches and racist policies to continue?

How Orwellian.....

Religiouslib
I have to ask.

You say it is unamerican to judge a candidate based on the church one attends. But if a candidate attended "The Church of the Creator", part of the white power movement, would you be willing to vote for him?

You see, the church one choses is an expression of one's beliefs. The fact Obama attended this church for 20 years tells me he agrees with the views preached from the pulpit. So judging based on Wright's statements is not unfair, Obama chose to be there and stay, so it says a lot about Obama's beliefs.

hard thought and andrews
so then you honestly believe there should be a religious test for politicians.

to answer your question about a white power church which do, in fact, exist, yes i maintain he or she has the right to president no matter their church affliation.

should we ban all atheists from politics.
should we ban all mormons from politics.
should be ban all satanists from politics.

tell me what you think is acceptable and what isn't.

do you honestly think it is constitutional for
Americans to be disqualified for office because of the church they attend.

now we can judge them on their own own words and political stances but to judge them by their religious affliations is simply not in the american tradition.


religiouslib
NO, you are confusing governmental action and individual choice.

The state cannot ban all mormons or catholics from running for office.

I have every right to judge them base don whatever criteria I see fit.

By confusing state and individual action, you end up with the strange result that you cannot take into account membership in a hate-filled group, just because it calls itself a church.

Re: Man of "Patriotically Challenged"
"I still hope that the presidential race turns on something other than racial issues. If it does, Obama will be the next president. Of course people who would never have voted for Obama will express their horror, while ignoring the rantings of Hagee because he supports the candidate he likes."

You cannot be truly that naive. Face it, your candidate has been belled, not by a preacher who merely endorsed him, like James Meeks, of South Chicago Baptist Church, but by his self-proclaimed pastor, mentor, and spirtiual advisor. Barack Hussein Obama may win the Democrat nomination (in order to avoid having Denver look like Chicago 1968, Part 2), but he will never be elected President of the Nation that he obviously despises.

andrews
i sincerely respect your right to judge a politician by whatever manner you want.

the mormons had racist views until 1978, should no one have voted for orrin hatch, harry reid, or the romney elder until they removed themselves from the mormon church.

to now turn around and be self-righteous about racism because it is black racism does not stand the light of day test.

now if you tell me that hatch and reid and romney should have renounced their religion and quit the church because of its racist attitudes then your are following a logical thought process.

otherwise it is inconsistent.

Brother rl...
"an American is not qualified to be President because of the church he attends?"

No. He is unworthy of votes because of his association with and apparent belief in the teachings of that church. Just because something is not and should not be a legal qualification does not mean it should not be a consideration for voters.

Obama admits that Wright has helped shape his social and political worldview. That is as it should be. Our religion SHOULD inform our values and even political beliefs... However, his views are racist, hateful, and built on lies.

"than what other churches disqualify you to be President?

who decides what churches are on this list?"

No such list exists or should exist. Funny to hear a liberal decry this though since being a conservative much less fundamental Christian has long been treated as a disqualifier by the left.

A person's religion should inform or at least be consistent with a man's worldview, right? So any overlap between the two should be fair game, right?

If someone attended a church for 20 years that said blacks are a mud race and should be put back into slavery, would he get a pass as a presidential candidate since it was his religion?

"what criteria is used to determine whether this church or that church preaches the "right" kind of sermon?"

If a candidate attended and supported a church that taught that abortion doctors should be assassinated... would you ask this question?


religiouslib
You said to Hard Thought and Andrews: "so then you honestly believe there should be a religious test for politicians."

Where did either of them say any such thing? It seems to me you're putting words in their mouths.

WHY SHOULD WE TRUST HIM?
Yes, it was good while it lasted. Now we know who he is and what he is, and we are not ready for that yet. Too prejudiced? Yes. Too prejudiced against blatant bigoted hatred.

How can people think that none of Wright's wrongs never leeched out onto Obama? Only if they're fools.

rl 2
"is the argument that one man makes a church?"

No. Beliefs make a church... and Wright shaped the beliefs and unique teachings of this church. That "one man" argument is a red herring.

"that is not what most Christians believe.

They believe a congregation of believers makes a church."

I see. So if your pastor began to preach that black people were responsible for AIDS, the national debt, and out of control crime in America... you'd stay since a church isn't one man?

Those things would be closer to the truth than what Wright is spouting. Blacks are more likely to have STD's including AIDS. Non-retired blacks as a group are more likely by percentage to depend on gov't programs than whites... and as a group pay less in taxes due to lower composite wealth. Unquestionably, crime is more prevalent in the black community than society at large.

So would you applaud a pastor that expressed his "real anger" so honestly?


Re: The Revrend speaks
"Where is Rev. Wright?"

This weekend he will be speaking in Tampa, FL.

religiouslib
But had a candidate run who was a member of a Mormon church that actively espoused racial separatism, I WOULD refuse to vote for him. I am quite consistent on this.

Nor is it something that "was happening" in Obama's church. It "was happening" until it came to light and became a scandal. To equate it with something that ended in 1978 is a bit of a stretch.

Also, I do not think any of those Mormon's you mentioned held a virulently hateful and racist individual as their "mentor" or wrote a book using that same man's sermon for a title.

You can gloss it over all you want, but Obama made this man his idol, so it is hard to believe he has no similar feelings.

If a man said Hitler was his mentor, would you not think he might be a bit of an antisemite? I think if Wright was Obama's mentor, recipient of large donations, and pastor at a church Obama attended for 20 years, then I have to think Obama is definitely cut from the same cloth, even if he hides it better.

Either that, or Obama pretends to be a black separatist for votes. Which just makes him a sleazy politician.

Neither one gets my vote.

Religiouslib
Thank you for answering me. I can see where you are coming from and I can agree up to a point. You used Mitt as an example, so will I.

I was a Mitt gal, and I voted for him in the primaries. I loved Mitt and felt he was the best choice for POTUS.

I did not want to drop Mitt as my choice because of his religion. I know the Mormon religion as a whole is a bit strange, but as all religion to an agnostic Jew is strange, LOL.

However, if Mitt had a preacher he saw exclusively for 20 years, used him as a spiritual advisor, married him and his wife, baptized his children, and had a close personal relationship with him and this preacher:

1. Ranted about how Jews are evil
2. How all minorities are evil
3. How 911 was our fault for giving into Jews and minorities and gays

I would drop Mitt as my candidate in a hot second. Why?

Because that meant Mitt attended services of a person who does not preach the book, but instead preaches hate and racism. This means that I would strongly suspect Mitt of having the same ideals and convictions as his preacher--since he dedicated his spiritual life to him for 20 years exclusively.

I'm sure Mormon churches have their Wrights as well, but if Mitt had a Wright, we would've known ions ago. He didn't.

This is why I find Obama to be highly suspicious, despite what fire he puts out with his flowery speech of the day. I smell a rat and usually when I do, I'm right.

We only scratched the surface of Obama, just scratched....and we got Rezko and Wright. That screams volumes to me.

i thought obama
had no accomplishments. well he didn't until now. he has now made it not ok for blacks to be racist anymore. good job obama... lets see, how did ann colter put it in her last column."i'm sick and tired of marinating in the angry resentment of blacks". i never owned a slave and i am not responsible for slavery, which by the way, was outlawed 150 years ago. i know there has been discrimination but on my street of four houses there are six black kids and my white grandson. those black kids have not faced racism. i see them almost daily and they smile and wave when they see me. one ten year old boy did some work for my wife last week to raise some spending money. later he brought over his bat signed by sammy sosa to show her. there is no simmering hatred for me when i take the dog out for a walk and they crowd around to pet her. so my point is there has been much racial progress the last 40 years, so mr wright you need to apologize and admit it and stop wallowing in you angry resentment.

Look at today, not yesterday
Libs (and Obama) like to bring up the past to justify the present. Examples:

America allowed slavery until the 1860s.
America allowed unfair segregation until the 1960's.
Mormons did not allow blacks to hold leadership positions until 1978.

Today these practices have all been rejected and many of us have moved on - striving to achieve MLK's dream of a color-blind society. But many libs have not. To them, everything is still about race. And to keep the races divided and stirred up against each other, they spew hate and lies like "white America invented AIDS and planted drugs to keep the black man down." This is total BS and it is being preached TODAY. The past is done and cannot be changed. The present is here and we can change our present course. What Rev. Wright says today is racist and wrong. What Obama says by not leaving Wright's racist mentorship speaks volumes about his character.


Sage Nails It, Again!
Yes, Obama, when placed in a corner, pulled out the race card over responsibility for self-determination.

Obama had the perfect chance to say: that he too has exploited race for gain and starting today it ends -- and, he calls on all of America to do the same. Instead, he extended the exploitation of race for gain. Too bad.

THRadio
I wonder why nobody brings up this part of the past: I am old enough to remember a Chicago that was the exact opposite of what it is now. As a 10-year-old white child, I could take a bus "downtown" by myself through a completely black (it was "Negro" then) neighborhood without fear, and envy those lucky people who lived in those big mansions on south Michigan Avenue and admire the beautiful tan- and brown-skinned ladies who wore such beautiful dresses and hats getting on the bus and compared them to the women in my neighborhood who wore house dresses. What did I know, I was young and naive. But in those days, there was no fear, no anger, no crime. The black community was intact, children had two parents and didn't have to worry about getting shot. But now? We all have freedom . . . and we can't shop or walk down the street without fear or danger. Why?

Obama's only claim to fame as a state legislator was his signature on a bill that forced Illinois police to document fully the race of the driver involved in every traffic stop for a full year so they could draft a report on racial profiling in the state. This in a state with a city that has seen 20 children shot in and around city schools since September alone. DWB gets more protests than minority kids using each other for target practice. (Next time you're in traffic, try to guess the race and gender of the drivers coming at you. Between the glare and tints on windows, you would need xray vision to be 100 percent correct.)

Playing the blame game will get us nowhere, and if Obama would address the reasons why his white grandmother felt fear instead of making excuses for his pastor, who should have been his spiritual advisor instead of his racial advisor, we might all have learned something.



All about judgment
Lon:
again, not about race or unAmericanism per se, but about judgment. keep your eye on the ball.

shells
thanks for your reasoned response.
i can also see where you are coming from.

i guess my only comment would be is that we both know there were evangelicals and conservatives, some right here on townhall, who would never have voted for romney because of his religion.

it was wrong to do that to romney, and wrong to do it to obama.


Mr. Elder, that was a good article
Indeed, if leaders of an ISLAMIC temple in the US were saying such things about America during their services, they would all be sent to Guantanamo for a suntan.

getsell,anthony: traitors of poor blacks
As Tom Sowell so objectively puts it when Bush gov of Tx,
he skirted the teachers unions and some poor, black, hispanic districts had the highest reading scores in the country; yet,
people like anthony and getsell voted for Gore like religious maniacs who ignore reality for some cosmic vision.

As to the civil rights act, many libertarians including intelligent blacks were against it and we know why now; try to fire someone black for incompetence and you have a law suit;
correcting wrongs is fine; but it was overdone

Sowell, williams. Elder and the guy in CA whose name I forget,
anti-affirmative action follow in the footsteps of volaire and tell the truth; obama, a nice guy, was concerned about his black identity and to prove joined in with the crackpots; it has come back to haunt him; forget black identity and solve problems which the liberal blacks have not done; they talk the talk but accomplish nothing

this sums up obama
The following from article by Shelby Steele which sums up Obama,and Anthony who have problems with being black instead of being men who happen to have a black skin:

How does one "transcend" race in this church? The fact is that Barack Obama has fellow-traveled with a hate-filled, anti-American black nationalism all his adult life, failing to stand and challenge an ideology that would have no place for his own mother. And what portent of presidential judgment is it to have exposed his two daughters for their entire lives to what is, at the very least, a subtext of anti-white vitriol?

What could he have been thinking? Of course he wasn't thinking. He was driven by insecurity, by a need to "be black" despite his biracial background. And so fellow-traveling with a little race hatred seemed a small price to pay for a more secure racial identity. And anyway, wasn't this hatred more rhetorical than real?

But now the floodlight of a presidential campaign has trained on this usually hidden corner of contemporary black life: a mindless indulgence in a rhetorical anti-Americanism as a way of bonding and of asserting one's blackness. Yet Jeremiah Wright, splashed across America's television screens, has shown us that there is no real difference between rhetorical hatred and real hatred.

No matter his ultimate political fate, there is already enough pathos in Barack Obama to make him a cautionary tale. His public persona thrives on a manipulation of whites (bargaining), and his private sense of racial identity demands both self-betrayal and duplicity. His is the story of a man who flew so high, yet neglected to become himself.

Mr. Steele, a research fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution and the author of "A Bound Man: Why We Are Excited About Obama and Why He Can't Win" (Free Press, 2007).

Barrack Obama is a Racsist
I was born in the 40s, went to school in the 50s, and graduated in the 60s. I had white friends, black friends and yellow friends. Never did we discuss theirs, or my, unfortunate and discriminatory ancestory and how I, my parents or grandparents mistreated all of them. My parents worked hard to raise a family of Catholic kids, participated in the PTA, attended all of our band concerts and teachers conferences. Parents all looked out for their own children and looked to tomorrow as being an opportunity of a better day than today. The racists, including Pastor Wright and Barrack Obama and others. are out to destroy the values of my generation and those of today's and future generations. Pretending and claiming not to be a racist, then elaborating and defending the crap and anti-white/anti-Semetic garbage that Obama has (not) heard at his church, after attending for 20 years!, clearly points out his racist philosophy, his (dis)honesty, and how he truly views this great country and the opportunity it has offered him. He has stated that he "honors" his white mother and white grandmother. Why didn't you ever attend or join "white" (mixed) church? He could have learned about true Christian values and not the hate speech, whichhe states he really didn't hear, and allthe terrible things that my white family did to them? Barrack, you are a liar about who you really are, and you don't deserve the support of any American, white, black or yellow. You are a disgrace to all who value the great country that America really is!

Here here, Jack!
You're right and thanks for defending most of America. I'm tired of being put down by Obama. He tells me I need HOPE???? I HAVE hope. I don't need him to tell me to believe in my country. I DO BELIEVE IN AMERICA, and--clearly--more than he does. We have good times and bad, but I hope I am like most Americans that know ALL THE TIME that we have the best government in the world. So...Barack...don't tell ME you're going to give me "hope" and "belief" in my nation. Arrogance!

On Being Biracial
It occurs to me that, even though I have previously dismissed people who talk about Obama being half-white, that there may be something to it after all.

The correct term, for those who don't know it, is "mulatto". It means "mule", as in the non-viable offspring of a horse and donkey union (appropriate for Democrats, no?)

I forget which one is male, or if it matters. But no matter.

The thing I have found with mulattoes, especially light-skinned ones, is that they often "Have Something To Prove." So they strive to be "Blacker Than Thou."

It's kind of like how some short men want to prove how "big and tough" they are by bullying everybody. This is known colloquially as the "Napoleon Complex."

So these "Napoleon Mulattoes" (to coin a phrase) will speak "Ebonics" (even when they know better), express hatred of whites, play the "race card", deliberately do poorly in school, etc.; at much higher rates than those with darker skin.

There is no reasoning with a "Napoleon Mulatto." They're going to play the role to the hilt.

Now before some of you go off the deep end over this, and I know some of you will, let me just clarify that I'm certainly NOT talking about EVERYBODY. This is only a generalization, and maybe not even that large of one. I'm talking specifically about mulattoes who, for whatever reason, feel they need to be "Black" in order to "fit in."

Probably other blacks accused them of "being white" at some point.

This, then, is my explanation for Obama going to this church. It was his way of being "Blacker Than Thou", of proving to himself and to others that his half-white heritage does not affect his "Blackness."

This is his telling the world he's NOT white, not at ALL; he's BLACK.

The Obamas lack good judgment

Four years ago Obama’s church, Trinity United Church of Christ, offered on its website at least a dozen videos of Rev. Wright preaching. Unfortunately for those who wanted to get a true picture of Rev. Wright’s beliefs, these videos were removed from the Church’s website due to media scrutiny...but they were removed before Rev. Wright retired last month.

Barck and Michelle Obama should have left Rev. Wright’s church. Let me illustrate: After attending the same church for 20 years, I decided to find a new church for several reasons. One of the churches I visited in my search was a church I had gone to several times before. That day several years ago the pastor bandied about the word ”nazi” in similar fashion to the talk shows and weekly news magazines then. Having personally been told Holocaust survivor stories, I realized I needed to leave. I got up a few moments later and walked out, easily noticeable. I walked out because I knew this pastor was not fit to lead me spiritually. Later I realized God was causing me to find another church where God’s Word is preached. The Holy Spirit speaks to each of us differently, based in accordance to God’s Word, to tell us when we must not compromise. A minister is not really just ”one of the family.” He’s a spiritual leader with authority.

Barack and Michelle Obama should have walked out during Rev. Wright’s vitriolic race-dividing sermons. They should have shepherded their family away from Rev. Wright’s church and found a smaller African-American Bible church where the pastor was in one accord with the Lord and better understood the awesome power of forgiveness in Christ which his ancestors showed, a force so powerful that many decades later still touches the human heart.


What are the black churches like? Part 1

What are the African-American churches like? Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s church is NOT typical of these churches. I’ve attended at least five African-American churches, as I recall, and they all showed the love of Christ, a strong love that drew this Caucasian in. I had been raised singing the old gospel songs and Negro spirituals that I often sang in their churches.

I joined one of the African-American churches after going there occasionally through the years. I had left my church of 20 years for several reasons and decided to seek membership at this well known black church. I really enjoyed both the older and the new pastors’ preaching, and then one month into my membership I couldn’t believe my ears as I heard the new younger pastor make a disparaging remark about Israel. I also heard him start preaching a social gospel with one sermon focusing on the Palestinians and poverty and defending the employment of former Surgeon General Jocelyn Elders. Fortunately, I had attended a smaller, less socially affluent African-American church a number of times and I recall the interim pastor there including in his sermon a delicate reference as to why a key member of government appointed by the president was rightly fired. He was referring to Jocelyn Elders as well. I decided to leave the more affluent church after there was pulpit approval of other actions as well that appeared to be violating God’s Word.

A year or two later, the members of that affluent African-American church ended up forcing the pastor to leave. But except for the one mocking sentence about Israel, even that pastor never came close to the vehement, vitriolic sermons and blasphemy rendered by Barack Obama’s pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright. The Bible says, ”Be not deceived. God is not mocked. Whatsoever a man soweth, he shall reap.”

What are the black churches like? Part 2

One of the most moving services I’ve ever attended was in one of the oldest African-American churches in America located in Georgia. I called the church before traveling to that city to make sure I’d be there for a church service. I attended the weekly prayer meeting, the only white person among several dozen black people. A half dozen elders went to the front of the meeting room and sat in a semi-circle facing us. Some got on their knees to pray. I have never heard such an exhortation in prayer as I heard from one of the elders on his knees. When everyone looked up from prayer to hear testimonies, I sat there with my head bowed because tears were streaming down my face. I’m sure the folks there thought I must have been under the conviction of sin but I was already saved and walking with the Lord.

A young woman who was perhaps in her early 20’s stood up to give a praise. The woman had the humility of Christ as she talked of her struggles, and I continued to weep to experience the humility of such saints who were most likely the descendants of slaves in that city. I remember singing Jester Hairston’s song ”Amen” with them. I felt I was in heaven. Afterwards, one of the men asked me if I wanted to go on a tour of the church. I agreed. The sight I most clearly remember was the floor of the pulpit. The vibrantly varnished floor boards contained an occasional hole the size of a silver dollar. The gentleman explained they were breathing holes for runaway slaves laying down in the shallow crawl space under those floor boards as they began their route in the Underground Railroad.

The experience at that church was one of the high points of my life.

Religiouslib
Of course it's worng not to vote for Mitt or Barak due to their religion, but for Obama it's not his belief in God we're questioning.

It's whether or not he subscribes to the racial and political ideals of his spiritual mentor who was a major influence and integral part of his life for 20 years.

For instance, I was a deadhead in my youth, I traveled to see them, so you can say that Jerry Garcia was my musical mentor. From 1980 - 1994 I never missed a local show, which meant I saw him 3-8 times a year.

Was I influenced? Yes. I partied, I listened to their music exclusively, my clothes were hippie-esque and tai-dyed.

Once Jerry died and I stopped going to shows, what happened? I slowly weaned off and listened to other music, I stopped partying, my clothes are current and not throw backs of the 60's, and I grew up.

So, seeing my musical mentor for those years certainly had an influence on my life. I believe Barak saw Wright more than I saw the Dead, and I am sure he was influenced by it.

If you don't like the show, why go to see it for 20 years, you know?


What are the black churches like?
They are as unbiblical as you can get especially in the Chicago area.

dsslm: read Corinthian, Timothy, Romans 13
Real Worship by Warren Wiersbe


Maybe you will gain a better knowledge of what worship is. Your comments don't really defend black churches at all.


Who in America takes responsability
Yes, who is to blame, black or white churches, that now up to 50+ million of unborn babies have made America one of the most ferocious and evil mass graves of the world, while the butcher shops remain open for business, slaughtering daily several thousands more, for no other reason, but for the sake of convenience in pursuit of making money? Yes, I am white male and a staunch conservative Christian Republican, and yes, belonging to a none black Church, however, my Church is pro-choice all the way and so are many other Church groups. I dare say, that black Churches are more against abortion than white Churches! So, Mr. Elder if you have any Christianity in you please give and America your answer as eloquent as you did with Obama. Yes, I am so glad, that God Almighty was willing to look beyoun man Saul of Tarsus, hence the greatest champion for God was borne only second than Jesus Himself. Yes, seeing immediately as we entered America 52 years as legal immigrants how so much evil was still inflicted upon the black race in America, contrary to all the heavenly like story we heard about America, the travel by Greyhound through the South all the way to LA, removed quickly for our eyes a sort of a smokescreen as one could read sings that went like this: Colored - White in all resttaurants, restrooms, even drinking fountains, etc. Yes, I rate his speech as necessary and if America would just stop looking into all peoples weakness of the sorts of Obama and just take his words, regardless of what he did or should have done or said. Of course I have no use whatsoever for his Socialistic agenda, when on the other hand as if the Republican were not also so deeply in love with the same! The National Debt speaks volumes as to Socialism/Communism1

Why is Obama running for Pres?
Why is Barack Obama running for President?
He claims that he is uniquely qualified to “bring our country together” and that despite his lack of experience and relative youth, he has demonstrated superior “judgment”.
Obama has now acknowledged Reverend Jeremiah Wright, used incendiary language that widened the racial divide. Obama says of (his) fellow congregants that (their) anger is real; it is powerful; and that not understanding its roots, serves to widen the chasm between the races.
If Obama is really the Reconciler and Chief, why didn’t he change the hearts of Rev. Wright and his flock over the past 20 years? Everyone is asking what influence the good Reverend had on the candidate, but shouldn’t we be wondering why the very people Obama knew best; still hate America, the White Man and Israel?
With regard to the issue of judgment; Obama demeans President Bush, John McCain and the Clintons claiming that they didn’t know what was going on inside Saddam’s closed police state, (10,000 miles away) when he didn’t know what was happening in the pew right next to him.
I think that pretty well puts the qualifications issue to rest.




Where is Rove when you need him?
Oh, yeah...he lives down the street. Anyway, if Obvama manages to get the Democratic nomination, this "hidden" side of him--his affinity for Rev. Wright language and, well, standing up for America-haters, will be well explosed by McCain's campaign. I can see the TV ads now!!! Karl Rove would have a feast on this campaign! Since Barack Hussein Obama has himself turned this into a fiasco, then he's opened the door. All's fair in love and political campaigns, Mr. Obama.

The way things are
--- Imagine a white person attending a KKK church for 20 years and then deciding to run for president. No problem right? He would only have to disagree with the statements of his minister. He could even claim that he didn't know what his minister was talking about during 20 years as a member. After all, some people sit in church and don't really listen to every sermon. Is being a good listener one of the requirements of becoming President? He could remain a church member as long as the church is helping the poor and doing other good deeds. I wonder how much support he would get from the MSM?

Freedom of Speech
I believe that Rev Wright has given thousands of sermons to is congregation and the Media has chosen to give us the most controversial andhas left out those sermons that were positive and inspiring. In any case, this is the United states of America and our Constitution provides for freedom of Speech. I may not like some of the things Rev Wright says, but I would defend his right to say it. Our founding fathers wanted a oountry that allowed our people certain inalienable rights and freedom of speech waas one of those basic rights.

Barack Obama has sad he does not subscribe to everything that Rev Wright says in his sermons. I don't subscribe to everything said at my church and I'm sure others don't subscribe to everything at their churches.

Senator Obama will provide the judgment and leadership that this country nees to overcome the problems in the econom and the war among other things. He is the countries best hope for positive future.

This old white guy has seen how Obama handles crisis and stress. How he treats people and hw he cares about this country. He gets my support and my vote.

Maui Democrat -- "Useful Idiots"
"I believe that Rev Wright has given thousands of sermons to is congregation and the Media has chosen to give us the most controversial and has left out those sermons that were positive and inspiring."

Perhaps so -- but I'll remind you that the media selected these specific sermons, *not* because they had thousands of sermons to sift through, but because these were the ones the church itself was selling.

Therefore -- if indeed, there are thousands of "inspiring" sermons versus just a handful of "controversial" sermons -- the media aren't the ones who selected them for public consumption. The church itself chose these as the best representation of the pastor's message.

But clearly, given your moniker, such "inconvenient truths" will make no difference to you.

Dr. Sowell put it nicely: "Someone once said that a con man's job is not to convince skeptics but to enable people to continue to believe what they already want to believe."

religiouslib
No, you did NOT hear that the qualifications for the United States presidency include religion. Do you honestly believe that's the crux of the current distrust of Obama? If so, I question your faculty to reason logically.

The only other explanation I can think of is that you are deliberately twisting the truth.

You've heard/read that Obama has willingly attended the church of a pastor who spews hate. Hate against America, hate against whites, hate against Jews.

Would you, or Obama, have us believe that this kind of rabble-rousing, hate-filled rantings just began in the last two months or so? Who in their right mind would accept that? Yet Barack Obama called this his church for twenty years, and saw this pastor as his mentor.

America should never have a president who admires such divisive hostility.

What are the black churches like? Pt 3

When I was a child and for many years afterwards, whenever I saw a black person, I thought of Jesus because the word ”forgiveness” came immediately to mind. Then I worked with African-Americans in various jobs and came to see them less iconically but still through a filter of godliness. With more life experience, I’ve learned to better discern values but it’s hard to let go of that filter.

One could easily have included in this article Jesse Jackson, the sham ”black leader” as a deterrent to the betterment of African-Americans. Four months ago, only CBS News included photo footage at the dedication of the MLK Memorial of professional victim Jesse Jackson obviously attempting to weep for show. It made me cringe. This was just after former UN ambassador Andrew Young exhorted African-Americans to “provide a clean and pure lifestyle for our children.” Bravo for Andrew Young in this matter.

What a profound tragedy that Rev. Jeremiah Wright has an advanced degree in Negro spirituals and another in religions focusing on Islam and then quotes the beautiful words of those old Gospel songs after spewing such race-dividing, terrorist-justifying, anger-inducing, hate-inciting verbiage in the privileged pulpit in the church of God. His video clips remind me of the hate-inciting verbiage of the Friday prayers of many imams, after which riots and bloodshed have occurred in various cities throughout the world.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.