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Thursday, September 27, 2007
Larry Elder :: Townhall.com Columnist
Jena Six -- Another Story of Unequal Justice for Blacks?
by Larry Elder
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About the so-called Jena Six, reasonable people can disagree about whether or not prosecutors initially charged the Jena, La., defendants too harshly. The black teenage defendants stand accused of beating a white teenager unconscious.

Authorities, at first, charged five of the six with attempted murder, although now none of them faces attempted murder charges. Supporters of the Jena Six claim that whites hung nooses on a tree, thus provoking a series of interracial clashes.

Revs. Sharpton and Jackson claim that harsh treatment of the Jena Six serves as a metaphor for the continued unequal justice for blacks in America. Really?

Jackson, speaking in Jena, claimed that more blacks sit in jail than in college. Irrelevant as to the issue at hand, and false.

According to the 2000 census, there were over 2.2 million blacks in college. By mid-year 2006, according to the Justice Department, 905,600 blacks were in state or federal prisons and local jails. Even if Jackson meant black men, his assertion is still debatable. The Justice Policy Institute found that at the time of the 2000 census, 603,000 black men were in college, while 791,000 were in jail. Yet only 179,000 of incarcerated blacks were between 18 and 24 years old, the customary "college age."

Jackson, in Jena, cited the unequal treatment in prosecuting crack versus powder drug violations as evidence of racial discrimination. This calls for an explanation. Crack violators, the ones subject to the harshest punishment, are often black. But members of the Black Congressional Caucus, in the '80s, pushed for stiff sentences against those peddling crack, given the violence -- mostly in urban areas -- associated with it. Nearly half of the members of the Black Congressional Caucus voted for the 1986 anti-drug bill, which provided stiff sentences for crack. The federal Sentencing Commission, during the Clinton administration, recommended equalizing the penalty for crack and powder. Clinton signed legislation to block the recommendations.

Jackson and Sharpton suggest that the disproportionate number of blacks under the criminal justice system stems from racism.

But black defendants are more likely to be acquitted than white defendants. A study in the '90s found blacks convicted less frequently than whites in all but two of 14 categories of felony crimes, including murder, rape, burglary, felony theft, drug trafficking and other crimes against people. The only two types of felonies where blacks were not convicted at a lower rate than whites were felony traffic offenses and miscellaneous felonies. Cases that went to juries (only 2.8 percent of those examined) had a similar pattern, although juries convicted blacks more than whites for robbery, assault and property offenses.

What about the assertion that a black defendant, with the same record, is likely to serve more time than a white defendant? Many legal experts blame the results on economics -- white defendants are more likely to hire a private counselor who can get them a better deal in the courtroom. Other factors that can sway judges include family support, job security and the ability to make bail -- with white defendants more likely than blacks to fit this description. And black judges are more likely than white judges to give black defendants harsher sentences than white defendants.

What about DWB, Driving While Black? Many big-city police departments now record stops by race. But the compiled information tells you nothing about why police stop drivers. George Mason University professor Matthew Zingraff, who studied racial profiling, says, "Why a police officer makes a stop of an individual, we'll never know that. We'll never know the number of people who have not been stopped. It doesn't tell us motivation. It doesn't tell us what caught the police officer's eye."

Supporters of the Jena Six say their actions were sparked by the "hate crime" of the hanging of three -- later reported as two -- nooses on a high school campus tree. This, activists say, shows a prevalence of hate crimes against blacks in America. But economist Walter Williams notes that when hate crime statistics are adjusted for blacks' lower population numbers, proportionally, blacks commit more than twice as many hate crimes as whites.

Rev. Sharpton calls Jena the "Selma of its day." Let's revisit. In Selma, Ala., in 1965, 500 to 600 civil rights protesters tried to march in support of black voter registration. Local authorities attacked the marchers with whips and tear gas and billy clubs, leaving 17 people in the hospital.

For what it's worth, an Associated Press-AOL Black Voices survey asked blacks to name the "most important black leader." More blacks named "nobody" than anybody else. Jackson was named by 15 percent of respondents; 2 percent named Rev. Sharpton; and Louis Farrakhan, leader of the Nation of Islam, an organization also active in supporting the Jena 6, was named by 4 percent.

Maybe that's the real lesson of Jena.

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About The Author
Larry Elder is a syndicated radio talk show host and best-selling author. His latest book, "What's Race Got to Do with It?" is available now.
 
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For Those Who Don't know
I am a black woman dating a white man, who just so happens to have grown up in Jena, LA. (Thank God we don't live there now)... His father is currently a sheriff's deputy in the town and I say this because, I actually have a bit more knowledge of the actual happenings of the entire situation. Bottom line, the nooses were hung because black students sat under a tree where traditionally only the white students sat. The principal did in fact expell the students, however the school board (of which the DA is a member) overturned the descision and gave them in school suspension.
Unfortunately, a series of interracial incidents, were initiated by whites and blacks alike. When whites initiated the incidents they were overlooked and/or were not charged. However, when incidents were initiated by blacks, they were in fact charged.
There are at least 10 eye witness accounts of the boy who was beaten yelling racial slurs (he was involved in a similar situation a few weeks prior), talk about inciting a riot.
Well, they beat his behind and were initially charges were battery. But low and behold theDA, changed the charges to "attempted murder". Don't get me wrong the boys were in fact at fault of fighting and should be punished but throwing there lives away is not justice.
There are many more details involved and anybody who has ever been to this town or a town like Jena can plainly see the injustice written all over.

SOLD4!!!!!
The news casting of Blacks in crime, on welfare, and all negative positions is not by chance distorted to demonize Blacks. The number of times we see Black females/mothers whenever welfare is discussed cannot be measured, and we forget that white females/mothers are the largest users of welfare. When drug use or corner drug selling is discussed, Black males are dragged out as culprits nine times out of ten, and we forget that whites use more drugs than Blacks and are almost in a class by themselves in alcohol use.

The wartime imaging implies that ethnic affirmative action is unfair to whites, while Black proxies like Ward Connerly, et al., argue that it also lowers the self-esteem of Blacks and other nonwhites who achieve admissions through affirmative action. However, white privilege, which is white affirmative action goes un-assailed by mass media, by Black proxies, and by the majority culture that benefits from its preferential treatment. And the wartime imaging applied to Blacks facilitates the white luxury of assuming that white discrimination, present in all sectors of society is not, in fact, white affirmative action but is actually merit. In so transforming the images, white affirmative action is seen as their merit, while nonwhite affirmative action is seen as preferential treatment for a needy people and is unfair to whites--reverse discrimination, if you will.

Stop Helping them larry help your people!!! Don't you think if our communitys had mentors like you we all would not be in this position when you bring down black people for political gain then you show how hartless you are because at the end of the day your race has nothing to do with how you make policy. Only if you are being demonized.

SOLD3!!!!

Retired Army Colonel Harry Summers is reported to have said, "It always makes it easier to fight a war if you demonize people so that you're not killing human beings, you're killing the devil." That demonization is a military strategy crucial to victory. A soldier must see, for sanity sake, that he/she is not killing a fellow human being but an enemy. As far back as slavery, Kenneth Stampp, in his classic work, Peculiar Institution, wrote this principle. During slavery whites decreed that slaves had no souls; they were not considered human beings, and since they were not human beings, anything could be done to them. Case in point: Stampp writes of a female slave owner who felt frustrated one day and to relieve her frustration, she took an axe and chopped up one of her slaves. That act did not register on her conscience as being wrong, let alone savage; it merely relieved her frustration.


SOLD2!!!

As these negative and often violent images are projected and romanticized by young Black males, the cry heard is, "This is real life, man!" And it is--for them and a limited number of other Black people. But it is not real life for the vast majority of Black America. To assume it is "real life" for all is equivalent to limiting another by your limitations. Your reality, weaknesses, or strengths may not be found in others--they are yours!

It is reasonable to ask why the image-making of Blacks is so negative; it certainly does not stem from the behavior of Black people in the majority. A study of language and the image-making of war gives us clues and possibly an answer.

War is more than the amassing of national military armament and the involvement of that armament and soldiers in conflict against other nations, even as the fighting of one man against another. War has an image-making component that is very vital to its accomplishment. It is important for the image-making component to be in play if a soldier will step across that invisible but universal sacred line and kill another human being.






SOLD!!!
Hello Mr.Elder

I listen to your show but i always wanted to ask you. How do feel about being a BLACK consevative? I don't know any other race then the latins that ID as a "whatever race" conservative. Are you different from the White conservatives? not only by skin color but by race and people relations? Here is something i hoped you would read over:

They take images of the 27% Black underclass and project them as if they represent the 73% non-underclass that is the majority Black Community. This is a deliberate act not just for avarice, but maybe for something even more sinister than that.

Not only is this negative image-making true in mass media, which may have pioneered it, but many young Black image makers are following mass media's lead. For most, their goal is simply to make a quick buck, but for some, they actually believe the images of the underclass represent the plight of the majority of Blacks. And that is tragic; for they, like many Black Conservatives, do not know themselves--that is, they do not know Black people. And like white media, they, too, do Blacks a grave disservice by helping to destroy Black people's reputation worldwide through modeling images that many inner city youths, who already have enough negative models, think are true Black America, worthy of mimicking.






christopher
You keep insisting the nooses was a criminal. What you mean is that it should be a criminal act because it is not a criminal act according to both LA state law and federal law,
Do you hear of free speech. If I am in the woods and hang a valentine in a tree to my girl friend, or a nazi cross or a noose or a sign SMOKE pot or believe in jesus, I am not breaking any laws so long as I am not destroying property. At most it be littering. IF you can make nooses a crime, you can argue that :believe in jesus: may be intimidating to non christians. That is why such things cannot be crime.
Now if you invade someone property and burn crosses, hang nooses all over the place and it is determined intent was meant to intimidate then you may have a crime.



christopher
The noose hanging was a crime. This is not my opinion. Two separate jurisdictions looked into. The LA has no law for such.
Secondly, the federal prosecutor for that area, black, did not see that act by itself as a crime.
The school officials switched the kid to an alternative school for a month; then back to regular school with in school suspension.

So they were punished by the school.

A case of sadness
I don't have a lot of free time, so I can't keep up with most topics.

But whenever I see a posting by VAN, I can't help feeling that he/she is a very unhappy individual. I hope, VAN, that you get some help. It's a shame to go through life with anger as your method of expression.

Take it for what it's worth, try to find a place for "God" (it could be a secular god) in your heart; you will find that most people are kind and generous if given an opportunity to share your pain and help you overcome it.

Good luck; I'm very serious and do hope for your best interests. I believe that we are all of the same "family" as we will one day learn.

len
It looks as if I touched a nerve.

Could it be that you know you are wrong and just have to find or make up any reason you can to justify your position?

I am by no means saying the white kids were wrong and the black kids were angels. I'm saying that both were criminally wrong in each separate incident. And I'm saying that the law enforcement and school officials were wrong to not take action against those that did the noose hanging. By ignoring the noose hanging law enforcement and school officials contributed to elevated racial tension which may have influenced the later beating of a white kid by black kids.

Is there an element of jock protection, and resentment of it? Most definitely! That is a cultural thing which happens all over this country and needs to stop or we will continue to see more examples like Michael Vick in the news.

Also, from the age of 7 to the age of 20 I (a white boy or güero) lived in Los Angeles California. Not in the suburbs either, I lived in the hoods and barrios of Panorama City, Van Nuys, Long Beach (the eastern part which bordered Wilmington and Carson, and was at that time dominated by the Hispanic gang East Side Longo's), and Bellflower (which is just a few miles east of Compton and right next to Paramount).

I know what it is like living in an area where racial tension is always high, and where it is used by groups to threaten or intimidate other groups. In L.A. tagging by gang members is a form of marking territory and also a message of intimidation to other gangs. I've seen first hand a kid walking home from school who belonged to a neighborhood gang and walked 1 block to close to a rivals territory and for it he was shot and killed.

How the intended victim takes the attempted intimidation or threat doesn't change the act, it is the intention of the actor which determines the severity. If a person tried to extort money from you and you ignore it that does not lessen the attempt to extort.

Chris end has it right...
There are black areas of just about every big city in the country where white people would be immediately attacked if they ventured there. This is a fact. Get lost in one of these communities and suffer the consequences. This does not mean blacks are evil. I do not like this grouping of individuals into racial groups when it comes to behavior. All blacks are not criminals and all whites are not bigots. Currently the case in Jena is about letting 6 black thugs off the hook for an act of violence. That's the bottom line. Sharpton and company want to force the authorities to do something that they know they cannot really do. It is a very serious situation. To acquiesce to their demands would really undermine law.

bytheocean
interesting comment

i live in southern california and there is a real mixing of the races here

if you walk through a mall you cannot tell what race most people are.

i am a school board member and there is no majority race and many students literally are a mixture of 3 or more.

I think
I think being African American is eventually going to become an ethnicity. Ethnic groups have certain foods, certain histories, certain music. But as Blacks and Whites and Asians and Latinos intermarry I think the children will have a harder time to name what race they are and it will be a matter of choice as to what ethnicity they belong to. As a "minority consultant" once put in his window a sign reading "any one is a minority". When you look at American Blacks as versus African Blacks it looks as if the American Blacks are closer to White than to Black.






oops
lol


i re-read the link and it was 55 officers killed.
got to make sure i have my facts correct too.

len
you made the statement that blacks account for 40% of law enforcement officers were killed by blacks.

the actual number given by the fbi for 2005 (the latest numbers they have) is 36%. 63%of law enforement officers were killed by whites.

now i understand that this is a overrepresentation of blacks proportionate to thier population but give both figures for the sake of honesty.

in 2005 57 law enforcement officers were killed.

here is the website and page i got the info from.

please present all facts not just the ones that bolster your argument.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2005/feloniouslykilled.htm

chris end
And lastly, I live in Phila, and most whites would not venture in certain black areas at nite. There are no nooses hanging up warning us. Now what do you suggest I do. Go the police and tell them that in area X, blacks are likely to mug me. And should the police now do what. Walk with me? Suspend the black community? I am in much more danger if I venture there than any of the black kids were in that school. I have not read of any black kids being mugged for walking down a street. Fights here and there, that is all. The only one who was mugged viciously was a white kid by blacks kids with criminal records and who were given a pass for their past behavior by a white coach.

chris 5
you:
Maybe the white kids were attempting to instigate the black kids into retaliating for the noose hanging violently. If so that could qualify as inciting a riot.
________
maybe this and maybe that. And a fair fight is not a riot. And six kids in a fair fight is not a riot. There was no riot. One black kid knocked a white unconscious from behind; and the other joined in kicking him. The noose incident happenned 3 months ago. You must have lived a sheltered life or are very middle class; live in working class areas and you will stupid adolescent behavior.
___________

you
At the very least the noose hanging could be a violation of the disorderly conduct laws.
________
Sorry, no dice. You have to be naked; having sex on the grounds, acting drunk. Putting a noose on a tree is not disorderly conduct. In private property clearly invading the property and might be intimidation.
\
Putting the noose on the tree is something for the school to correct educationally. IF the school had some evidence that these kids were potentially violent based on past behavior, then it should take steps to prevent them from ever attending school again. The school suspended them for 3 days. WEll, if they were gung ho for violence, I dont see what that suspension would accomplish. Clearly, the school authorities were not concerned these guys would go home, get their gun and start shooting blacks. IT was a stupid act and that is all. Young kids can do stupid things without making into a circus as it has been made. Anything to do with race today is equivALENT to how people reacted to some sexual stuff fifty years ago. IT grabs the mind and rationality dissappears.

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chris 4

A verbal request is not a gun. IF one pays no attention to the verbal request, then there is no crime.

Suppose you are on a train. The guy sits down next to you with a nazi insignia on one arm and a noose on the other. I gather some might feel uncomfortable and intimidated. He has committed no crime. Do you want to make that a crime.

You:
It is much more than an insensitivity issue. Did the white kids really intend to lynch the black kids? I don't know, but as an outsider looking at the situation I can say if I saw that happen in my home town I would take the threat seriously and be concerned that the threat could escalate into violence.
_____________
Come on now. You dont know that there was no intention to lynch. It is a liitle bit of stretch if you have read all the stuff. Yes, if I were the school official I would be concerned about possible excalation. But that is a different matter. Apparantly, the school was not concerned that the white coach was covering up all season for the misbavior and criminal behavior of the black students on the football team. For all I know this what ticked off the white kids; preferential treatment. I am just guessing here. But it is always the knee jerk reaction that whites are always the devils and the blacks angels. It is the black kids who already had records. Maybe if the black kids were intellectual squares like our anthony thomas nothing would have happenned. From what i read there is significant white black student positive interaction. Maybe it is these particular kids, wise guys that are the problem. Who knows. But the kneee jerk reaction is always to demonize the whites and make black criminals like snow white.

chris 3
You:
The white kids who did it clearly meant it as more than a joke or a common insult like name calling.
__________
I have answered that above. But just how do you know that it meant more. The white boys had a meeting to hang the blacks kids? They bought rope and guns to ambush them and hang them? Just what to imagine, since you dont know, what they intended. I would hate to have you on a jury. When you are angry at someone, you use whatever venom, save violence, to vent your anger. Nothing new. Gee whiz. Husbands and wives say the meanest things in a fit of anger; and most do not go any further than that. One watches lower animals gnash their teeth and threaten and then do nothing.

You:
It is no different than if I pulled out a knife or gun and threatened to kill you for sitting at my favorite table in a popular restaurant. Even if you didn't take it as a serious threat I am still guilty of making the threat.
_______________
Not the same at all. The more apt analogy would be putting 8 by 10 sheet of paper with NO BLACKS at school lunch table. So far no crime. IF blacks were to sit down and attacked then a crime. The school may punish it for being impolite. I avoid the term racial crime, because suppose the note were: no fat people; or no A students. Students should be taught not to deprive others of common dignity to sit where they want. I am not supporting such, but let not us go overboard and criminalize every immature act. It calls for educational intervention and that is all.

chris 2

One is free to walk around in this country with nazi armbands. Much more intimidating given there is actual violence against Jews. We read about it in Europe. We read the anti=semitism on the web. It is real. There is no more KKK or police beating up blacks as was the case 50 years ago. Those days are over. IT is blacks who are the violent ones against the weak in their own community and against police. See my prior post on this. In sum, the noose was a taunt and nothing more. There is no history in that community of any kind of KKK kind of violence. Kids do stupid things such as calling people fat, fairy, and the n word when they are angry. We grow up and dispense with such. Racial insults on the part of adolescents are just a way of sticking to someone where it hurts rather than some ominous threat such as in the past where a black who drank at the white water fountain might get blows on his head.

If one listened to the Nixon tapes, one would hear anti=semitic remarks; kissinger was not threatened by such.

+++++++++


christopher
you:
Like placing a burning cross in a black persons yard, a noose hanging in a tree (especially in the south) is an intimidating act and an attempt at invoking fear in the black person(s) whom it was aimed at.
____________
Placing a cross on PRIVATE PRoperty is harrassment and is punishable as both as invading property and harrassment.

First I will assume for the sake of this post, that the the white boys knew about history of lynching and were taunting the black kids. But taunting is not intimidating. Those blacks kids were not running scared or worried about being lynched. They can take care of themselves physically and some already had criminal records. They were not afraid of the white guys nor intimidated by them. These blacks were not posters like Thomas who might wet his pants. These blacks are tough guys in addition to being bullys as shown by stomping on unconscious persons.

alopekos
Wha thomas needs to be mugged and beaten to his inch of his life by black low life; maybe he would wake up and change his politics and his apolegia. Let us see now: i was mugged; guess the color;someone jumped by then12 year old son and stole his bike from under him; guess the color. MY son at age 16 would ride his bike to work and ride thru a black community who tried to waylay him every day; he had a hi speed bike and escaped each time; guess the color. I also live in phila. My son and a friend were attacked around the city hall area; guess the color. My grandchildren attend a private quaker school in a black area; the kids in the area pass the school and throw rocks; guess the color.
when I was 16 I was attacked by 5 low life irish kids. that is 50 years ago; they did not have al sharptons defending them nor a thomas making apologies for them and supporting a system that encourages such. Thomas is guilty of being irresponsible citizen.

alopekos: thomas is guilty
i agree that thomas seems to be decent chap personally but that is makes guilty ir being irresponsible to keeping incompent blacks in power and making it possible for the Sharptons in the world to have power to do damage to the black community. Just in today's nypost, it came out that Sharpton is paying money to guy who beats his girlfriend.
IF all the decent law abiding middle class blacks rose up in arms against the sharptons instead of their imaginary concerns with racism, he would be responsible. But, when good people do nothing except rant about racism and could care less about someone being almost stompted to death because the criminal was black, they are guilty of screwing their own community by supporting the democratic party which depends on lowlifes and middle class guys like thomas who keep the tradegy ongoing. guilty as charged!!

Don't be So Hard on Them, Len
Len,

Ralph is Just a Grown Up Version of Huey Freeman. See Aaron McGruder's "Boondocks" and you can't miss Ralph Ellison. He's still waiting for the revolution, but he's hoping that this time it WILL be televised or at least on Youtube. He's obviously a very bright, literate fellow. I would love to buy him a few beers and argue non-racial politics with him. His views are a little constricted and he will likely never form effective alliances. He doesn't recognize that "The Man" plays us all, white and black, like puppets.

Anthony seems like a nice guy, who is distressed about the problems that he witnesses daily in his community. He lives in a city with an African American mayor, police chief, much of city council, and many affluent, black movers and shakers in the business arena. They're detached from the problems of the streets and spend time rearranging the chairs and taking graft as well as any white politicians ever did. He can't figure out why 400 of his fellow citizens will likely die this year, largely at the hands of pitiless criminals from the African American community.

Y'all keep your heads down over there in Philly.

why one wonders about thomas
The following excerpt from
http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon2007-07-19hm.html
is why I have no respect for the thinking of black liberals such as ellieson and thomas and their guilt ridden white sycophants:


Blacks are blowing away police officers at rates far exceeding their own numbers. Nationally, blacks made up 40 percent of all cop killers from 1994 to 2005, even though they are only 13.4 percent of the American population.

That fact is not allowed in polite company, however, because race-baiting is tolerated in only one direction. Any time an officer shoots a black civilian, he runs a risk of igniting protest in the African-American “community.” (Even if the officer is black, he will be treated as an honorary white for purposes of denouncing cop racism, as the shooting of Sean Bell last November demonstrated.) The media will turn out in force for all such anticop demonstrations, lovingly documenting every gesture of black rage. But justified police shootings constitute only a minute fraction—and unjustified police shootings, an almost imperceptible fraction—of homicides of blacks, virtually all of which are committed by other blacks. New York police killed nine civilians in 2005, for example, all of whom had attacked the officers first, compared with hundreds upon hundreds of black-on-black killings. But blacks can shoot whites—police officer and civilian alike—without anyone’s organizing a street demonstration about it, much less daring to point out the pattern. Perhaps such incidents are just dog-bites-man stories, too much part of the normal order of things to be considered noteworthy.

len
I thank you for the complement, but there is a flaw in your logic.

Like placing a burning cross in a black persons yard, a noose hanging in a tree (especially in the south) is an intimidating act and an attempt at invoking fear in the black person(s) whom it was aimed at. The white kids who did it clearly meant it as more than a joke or a common insult like name calling.

It is no different than if I pulled out a knife or gun and threatened to kill you for sitting at my favorite table in a popular restaurant. Even if you didn't take it as a serious threat I am still guilty of making the threat.

It is much more than an insensitivity issue. Did the white kids really intend to lynch the black kids? I don't know, but as an outsider looking at the situation I can say if I saw that happen in my home town I would take the threat seriously and be concerned that the threat could escalate into violence.

Maybe the white kids were attempting to instigate the black kids into retaliating for the noose hanging violently. If so that could qualify as inciting a riot.

At the very least the noose hanging could be a violation of the disorderly conduct laws.

Has anyone else noticed....
that Sandy Rios' column has disappeared from Today's Opinion List.

Len
Thanks for the kind words.

I don't deserve the praise. I can be mean. Sometimes I like to agitate certain folks just because they bug me.

If you want to read some good intuitive stuff, with thought provoking posts that propel a conversation, give Inkling Revival a read. He can lose his temper at times, but he has a way of peeling the onion.


Just noticed...
NY Dog seems to have been flagged. DDon't see his post. Quick,look! Michael Vick may have dognapped him!

eernest will
you are an anomaly on TH; you know how to make a point. None of the ad homs and emotional irreationality. Where did you come from? Mars?

Well, now writes:

"I've read quite a bit about this
ALL of it conflicting. But one thing that SEEMS to be true:
the 6 were charged with attempted murder, which was later lowered to assault of some kind.

Isn't this standard procedure with police and DAs all over the country? Even the one that 'had the biggest rap sheet' and was 'alledgedly' the one that knocked the vic unconscious - was charged with an assault, not the attempted murder"

You are 100% correct. It's SOP about everywhere. It tends to make prosecution and defense look goo and also tends to scare the bayjasis out of the defendant.

Len, you wrote:
"So when you are angry, your verbal weapons are anything that will get to the party you are attacking. The racial insult is no worse than any other insult that arouses strong emotion. Exceot it has an historical context which may arouse slighly more emotion."

I appreciate this point very much. When our intention is to lash out, regardless of what triggers it, you reach for that thing that is going to have the most impact. It's different for different people. I knew women who would go right for the masculinity like a pit-bull goes for the throat. For other people it's a racial epithet.

Your point is well taken.

ernest will
Too much is made of the noose. When you want to get back at somebody, you find terms, short of violence, that get to the other person, So, if the white kids hung a sign: a,b and c are Mother fuc kers, that would arouse the same emotion as supposedly the noose did it.(i say supposedly because there was a 3 month hiatus between the noose and the violence which could have been lethal.

So when you are angry, your verbal weapons are anything that will get to the party you are attacking. The racial insult is no worse than any other insult that arouses strong emotion. Exceot it has an historical context which may arouse slighly more emotion.

if you want to get Bill Clinton made, you dont call him a white honkey, you call him a rapist. With jackson and sharpton race who res.


Blacks who dont think too intelliegently call those blacks who disagree

uncle toms.

it would be nice if we could talk without such.

ernest will
It depends. In this, it is clear that the blacks were not scared, intimidated or anything of the sort, Take this: "John, if you have sex with my sister, I will break your as s." Assume the sister is 16 and the boyfriend 16. you want to lock someone up for that?

You have to take the whole context into consideration before you conclude it is a serious. OF course, there are many grey areas.

OF course, we want to teach young people to act like Jesus; be polite etc.
OF course, we dont want to reward impoliteness.
Suppose your girlfiend says after a sex episode: You are a lousy lover.
We cant lock her up for that. She would be better off suggesting better techniques of love making.
In case of the noose incident, one would explain to the students the hisotircal singificance of it and give them a reading assigment which describes a lynching.
But teasing is part of being an animal; you see it the playfulness of dogs teasing each other in their play; and humans. IT is a question of when you cross the line from teasing to real intimidation.

agaki
a noose in a tree not meaningful?

i guess it means something to the kkk

Authorities in Alexandria, less than 40 miles southwest of Jena, arrested two people who were driving a red pickup Thursday night with two nooses hanging off the back, repeatedly passing groups of demonstrators who were waiting for buses back to their home states.

The marchers had taken part in the huge protests in Jena that accused authorities there of injustice in the handling of racially charged cases -- including the hanging of nooses in a tree after a group of black students sat in an area where traditionally only white students sat.

The driver of the red truck, whom Alexandria police identified as Jeremiah Munsen, 18, was charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor -- a reference to the 16-year-old passenger. Munsen also was charged with driving while intoxicated and inciting to riot, according to the police report.

As officials were questioning the driver, he said he had an unloaded rifle in the back of the truck, which police found. They also found a set of brass knuckles in a cup holder on the dashboard, the police report said. Watch cops respond to the dangling nooses »

The passenger told police he and his family are in the Ku Klux Klan and that he had KKK tattooed on his chest, the police report said. He also said that he tied the nooses and that the brass

the truth about black crime
Those who look for racism as the curse of our society ignore that it is black crime rate---40% of crime by blacks and blacks only 13% of population that is the curse.

Blacks like Thomas and whites full of guilt find this an embarrassment and hence ignore it. OF course, the victims of such, mostly blacks, pay the price of diverting attention away from this. When I say ignore, they might note in passing, but they have no solutions except welfare, excuses for low expectations They have no solutons nor does the black leadership.

Imagine a march to support kids who stomp on an unconscious person. Imagine a white coach who covered up for the crimes of his black football players so win games. that never bothers the black movers and shakers.They are too embarassed and would have to face reality

For a detailed analysis of black crime and black "genocide' on the police see

http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon2007-09-24hm.html
http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon2007-07-19hm.html



I'm curious Len
Could it be construed as an attempt to intimidate or discourage behavior by means of instilling fear as the result of an implied threat? And if so, is that illegal?

It sounds illegal. But, I confess, I'm not an expert.

It sounds like an activity that should be discouraged. If that's the case, I'm not a proponent of positive reinforcement in situations such as these. What would be an appropriate response?

christopher parisho on intimidation
You come across as very rational compared to those like thomas whose thinking on these issues is sophmoric at best. However, you are wrong when you state the following:
1. Those who hung the nooses in the tree should have been charged with a crime. What I have read is that the nooses were hung by white kids after black kids sat under a tree where the white kids usually hang out. In my opinion it constitutes a terroristic threat intended to intimidate the black kids and those responsible should be charged accordingly.
______________
AS the federal black us attorney stated, the nooses by themselves were no crime. Clearly, the blacks were not intimidated, that is for sure. That they were taunted or felt insulted seems reasonable; but to be insulted is not a crime. With you kind of reasoning, it would be end of free speech. IT is not to excuse the insensitivity of hanging the noose. But we dont punish people for being insensitive. 'Are you serious to think the white boys had the slightest intention of lynching any of the black boys.

agaki
i did not make the comment that japan would not accept black people i was quoting one of the enlightend conservatives on this thread and exposing his lack of knowledge. go back and read the post and you will see what i mean.

Born white in Flint, MI part 2
I noticed that saying the wrong thing, regardless of my intention, could land me in VERY much trouble in school or the military, and in private business, could get me fired. It became easier to never discuss race with anyone you didn't trust COMPLETELY because your comments could be taken in any context imaginable and used against you. Expressing opposition to Affirmative Action or reparations should NEVER, and I mean EVER be discussed in a large modern American corporation if you're white.

For a time, I was led to believe that people of a different skin color than myself just wanted the benefit of a doubt, to be left alone, to not be attacked or discriminated against, etc. etc. Then it started to become clear, that being nice and minding my own business wasn't enough.

I began to feel fear and resentment at being made to feel guilty over being white. I noticed that being afraid and tiptoeing around every issue of race wasn't bringing us closer together, it was driving us further apart.

It's too bad things are this way.

Born white in Flint, MI
I grew up for a time on Oak Street. There were VERY few white kids. I was a minority. This was at a time when the word "Honkey" was still in use. It was the sixties. For those visiting the place now, it's a combat zone. I wouldn't go there during the day, much less at night.

I had two friends named Gilbert. The whole neighborhood, all skin colors, referred to them as black Gilbert and white Gilbert, they weren't offended. Why didn't we use their last names? I don't know. We were kids.

In those very early years, that seemed to be our only recognition of color. It was irrelevant, and only helpful in determining which Gilbert you were talking about or to.

As we got older, other people like our parents and culture started to make us more aware of each other's skin color.

Through school, television and movies, I increasingly became aware of my whiteness. I was made aware of the oppression and horror inflicted on others by my predecessors in color.

Though I never owned a slave, I was made to feel guilty for being white. Though I never practiced discrimination in the workplace, I had never been in a position of authority over anyone until the military, I was made to feel guilty for being white. Though I never committed violence upon a person for anything having to do with skin color, I was made to feel guilty for being white.

Many issues of hypersensitivity to opinion and thought and attitudes told me that I was "probably racist" and I was made to feel guilty for being white. If I succeeded in school, college, the military or my job, I was made to believe that my experience was somehow easier for me, undeservedly so, I was made to feel guilty for being white.

to be cont.

Attempted Murder
Rocker troll:

Tell me whose life, liberty or property were violated by hanging some rope in a tree?

No a single person as far as I can tell. Want to charge them with disorderly conduct or hell even terroristic threats (even though a noose in a tree in 2007 is about as meaningful as someone calling you a witch).

But throwing someone into a wall, knocking them into an unconcious state and then beating them as they lay defenseless--and they didn't stop--but were stopped, so if they were not it is easy to see that this could have ended in death.

So if a person pulls a gun and fires at the person and the round simply grazes them and then the person is stopped from firing again, should he be charged with attempted murder? Or no because afterall he wasn't seriously hurt and left the hospital that very day.

I have no problem with the original charge of attempt--that is a question for the jury.


Carlos
I have wondered the same thing over and over as well. Why isn't anyone going after the parents?

Because it wouldn't be as sensational. To have this be strictly white vs. black is a media treat.

If you bring their parents into the equation, whom are responsible for raising these idiots, then the story isn't as sexy and controversial as Jesse and Al need it to be.


dbz
it is amazing that rocker, mommy's boy continues to come back daily for his a** whipping. How can he possibly think that anyone is going to take seriously anyone so dumb as to inform the rest of us that he is 31 years old, still living with his mommy who cleans his clothes and cooks his meals and how he can't finda woman to have a relationship with. I guess getting beat up is the only attention he gets in his pitiful life. But he does champion illegals, i wanna jihad and now he is joining with jackson and sharpton to cry about how blacks are mistreated by a racist society. I wonder his next cause will be in the coming week.

Correction
freetothink:

Read my post above. It is 100% false that blacks are not allowed to move to Japan.

And religiouslib, you are still a moron for thinking such was true.


For religiouslib
In your complaint against all the alleged racism on this thread why did you give Van a pass for his racist implication that "poor people" = blacks?

Also, Al Capone and his mob did not "terrorize" the people of Chicago. Capone and his gang fought with other gangs for control of illegal liquor sales in Chicago during prohibition. Their targets and victims were other gang members, not citizens. Citizens were their customers.

Even the mob knows (knew) more about economics than today's average liberal. The mob knew you can't make money by killing your customers.

The St. Valentine's Day massacre consisted of a gangland execution of seven men. That was a once-in-lifetime occurence for the Chicago mobs. For many of today's street gangs that wouldn't even be a normal month's 'work'.

And one thing more, since you mentioned the Irish as an ethnic group that once behaved every bit as badly as (some) blacks do today, I remind you that while Al Capone and his men were violently eliminating the competition in Chicago, an Irishman on the East Coast had a pretty good monopoly going for himself in the bootlegging business. His name was Joseph Kennedy, and he was an admirer of Hitler.

For Van
In your thoroughly unsubstantiated rant you failed to furnish any evidence to support your claim that blacks are accused on weaker evidence.

Then you went on to claim that poor people do more time for their crimes because they can't afford good lawyers.

Are you unaware that most poor people are white? Is your comment, issued in the context of this thread, not racist?

For MikeR
Re: the KKK

Which party would they support if they were here today?

This is a straw man. But if they were here they would support the Nazi Party. As you know, "NAZI" is an acronym for National SOCIALIST Party". And we all know what socialists are. They are LIBERALS.

For MikeR
Re: the KKK

Which party would they support if they were here today?

This is a straw man. But if they were here they would support the Nazi Party. As you know, "NAZI" is an acronym for National SOCIALIST Party". And we all know what socialists are. They are LIBERALS.

The tell-tale sign
Midway through the article Elder writes:

"Jackson, in Jena, cited the unequal treatment in prosecuting crack versus powder drug violations as evidence of racial discrimination. This calls for an explanation. Crack violators, the ones subject to the harshest punishment, are often black."

Elder goes on to explain that black legislators seem to endorse this status quo despite Jackson's objections. But what's missing is this. The VICTIMS of crack are also mostly black. Any emphasis on punishing crack will disproportionately FAVOR blacks, unless you take the perspective of the black CRIMINAL.

So which perspective is Mr. Jackson taking? Why, the criminals' of course. After all, we know they wouldn't be criminals if it weren't for racism.

To aurorawatcher, part 3
What is, however, abundantly clear is the racism of those who set out to play-up the whole event. White people are not without fault here, but this particular case seems to be more about the instinctive reflexive racism of blacks.

Without a closer look, black agitators were all too happy to pronounce Bell et. al. the hapless victims of the worst forms of overt racism, and to seek both money and self-promotion from the hoopla.

The only real “lesson” of Jena is that “if one can play-up racial strife, there’s lots of money to be made”.

Think I’m being to cynical? Consider the aftermath of the big protest march. Hundreds of thousands dollars were sent by well-meaning folks to help with the legal defense of Bell and his criminal compatriots. So, what did Mychal Bell’s mother do with the money? Well. Like any mother concerned only for her sons well-being and future, she went out and bought herself a new Jaguar. It seems her new take on the whole affair now is, “Mychal? Oh, Mychal’ll be fine. Momm’s got a stack of cash and a phat new ride! It’s party time!”

Just thought you’d like to know.

To aurorawatcher, part 2
One such incident, which seems to be the direct genesis for the beat-down of Justin Barker stems from what has been reported as an attempt to crash a private party by the thug friends of Mychal Bell’s. From the reports, adults (who happen to have been white) stood up to the unlawful intrusion by the thugs, resulting in a fight in which one of the so-called “Jena 6” was disrespected and physically humiliated. A few days later, reports are that Justin Barker further disrespected the Jena 6 by referring to the lost fist-fight (note – it is unclear whether any racial slurs were used during the exchange). As pay-back for his disrespect, Barker was targeted for an ambush.

We all know the story. He was attacked from behind, knocked unconscious, and savagely kicked and stomped by 8 to 10 of Mychal’s posse.

Now, it is to be expected that white’s would see a racist angle in this, just as blacks would have seen a racial angle in the nooses (remembering, of course, that the nooses and the beat-down are not connected as motive). While there may well have been racial animosities at play in the attack on Barker, it may well be that Bell and his craven thugs would have done the same to a black student who had similarly crossed them.

RE: MikeR
Kooks like you charge Republicans of being racist, always without ANY actual facts to back them up. Not even ONE. Oh, SURE, CLAIM that David Duke switched to Republican. He was IMMEDIATELY blacklisted by the national Republican Party, and hasn't been a legitimate voice as a Republican...EVER.

On the other hand, Bill Clinton handed the AUTHOR of the Southern Manifesto, former senator William Fullbright, the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

Every 6 years, Robert Byrd is re-elected to the Senate, and yet, unlike that boogeyman Strom Thurmond, he has NEVER ONCE renounced his "former" racism. Go ahead, post his quotes about how his Klan membership was a "mistake"...because it hurt his political career. Read that statement closely. Byrd is practically a linguist -- EXTREMELY articulate. Had he wanted to say the Klan was bad because they are racist, he could have. However, he did not, only saying his membership prevented him from being elected president.

To this very day, the Democratic Party is a vehement supporter of Planned Parenthood, a group whose founding principles were the extermination of the black race. Something like 78% of all PP facilities are in majority-black neighborhoods.

These are all MODERN DAY examples, and yet you want to believe that the Democratic Party's racism is a thing of the past?

You keep pointing the finger at Republicans. I have PROOF that the finger OUGHT to be pointed at Democrats. All you have is unsubstantiated accusations.

To aurorawatcher, part 1
Aurorawatcher - “Racism is wrong no matter what color your skin. The Jena 6 are racists.”

Perhaps, but not necessarily (or at least not conclusively). Allow me to explain:

As information slowly comes out about what was really going on in Jena, La, two things in particular stand out. One – that everyone who was involved in investigating the case came to the conclusion that the “noose” incident had absolutely nothing to do with the attack on Justin Barker; and Two – that Mychal Bell and his compatriots were a gang of thugs who’s escalating criminality was protected most of all by their white football coach.

To elaborate, it seems that Mychal & friends were involved in multiple run-ins with the citizens of Jena and with the law. Yet, it seems that although they had collectively multiple charges pending against them, all that their coach could see was their value to his team’s success on the field. I believe that, as is seen with any band of thugs, their bad behaviors were not directed solely at whites in Jena – they no doubt set upon other blacks as well. We just hear from the main-stream press about the incidents involving whites (although, based on the number of charges, there were many other incidents).

Totally False!
Blacks can indeed move to Japan. Ever been to Japan, religiouslib? In fact, gasp, there are even Japanese that are married to blacks living in Japan.

That being said, as far as gaijin (or gaikokujin to be more formal) go, blacks are lower and thus treated worse than white gaijin, but saying that blacks can't live in Japan just shows what a moron you are. Oh--in Japan there is pro baseball--e.g. the Hiroshima Carp and the Tokyo Giants--they have black players on those teams.

Now it would be difficult for a black person to become a Japanese citizen--not impossible but difficult--but it would be difficult for a white American or German to become a Japanese citizen as well.




How many young black men
Died in American Cities today?
One would assume its unimportant for the Jacksons and Sharptons of the world.

Or the media
I feel it in the air of today, violence is increasing and the concern is over high school kids, and perceptions of what is the major problems of today.

Never mind the killing going on and on and on every day.
"just life in the big city"

This pretty well sums it up
The 'nut' quote from garryb's link at 12:07 PM:

"I am now convinced that the biggest enemy to our future as a whole community has become the misinformation, lies, and prejudice of a national media that refuses to seek out the truth concerning the events of last fall."

RE: bfred
I DIDN'T trivialize what the white kids did. What they did was just plain DUMB. And point of fact: The kids were suspended for 3 days for their actions.

But to claim that the nooses in any way justified the actions of those six miscreants is laughable, at best. They ambushed some random kids -- knocked him unconscious with what ALL reliable reports signify was a cowardly cheapshot, then proceeded to stomp him while he was down. That the attempted murder charges were dropped is the only thing that was done wrong. Were that six white kids attacking a black kid, I'd say the same thing, and I'm sure idiots Jackson and Sharpton would be DEMANDING they receive the stiffest possible punnishment for attempted murder.

toro
yoiu left off two other space aliens. Everyone's favorite child molester, michael hackson. How can that guy(?) look in the mirror and not gag. And Patrick leahy. With those eyes he reminds me of arnold on mars when he lost his oxygen

Rocker is a troll ignore him
But since we are on the subject of trolls--why does the leprechaun (that being Bill O'Reilly) keep having this bigoted, race whore on his show. Typhoons need warm water, and race pimps need exposure by the media--deprive typhoons of warm water and they die, deprive race pimps of the media and they vanish.

O'Reilly and the airhead (Sean Hannity) simply give these clowns what they want by giving them airtime.


inkling_revival writes
"You, on the other hand, took the low road, and evoked images from almost a century ago, in a clear attempt to heap guilt on him"


My comments weren't made to invoke guilt. I could careless what someone like that feels or thinks.

The comments were meant to be satirical and to make fun of such ignorant thought, no matter how genuine his feelings were.

Yeah, Larry!
Of course, nobody with white skin could present the statistics he has presented without being accused of racism. The statistics would still be the same, but the reaction would be very different.

It's refreshing to hear someone with dark skin recognizing that white people do not have a monopoly on racism. It's a problem endemic in most ethnic communities as well. It was always there. Al Sharpton was probably a racist before Martin Luther King pointed out it was wrong. Somehow Al failed to realize MLK was preaching to him as well.

It would seem that Mr. Elder heard the message. Racism is wrong no matter what color your skin. The Jena 6 are racists. They are no different from those who hung the nooses, except in the violence of their crime. Once they crossed that line, somebody now wants to give them a pass because the "whites started it". Yeah, but the blacks actually physically assaulted someone. It's not racist to expect someone to do time for beating someone into unconsciousness. That's called "justice". She's blind for a reason!

It's incredible
to read these comments regarding races.

Only one post actually pinpointed the fact that it's the social differences that create these issues.

We are all one race, we are the human race, period.

Except for Al Gore who was dropped off by a flying saucer to introduce the internet and carbon printing.

Racism ?

My questions... Why aren't we going after the parents of these kids? If these are juveniles, let the parents pay the medical bills and lawyer costs? Why doesn't CNN condemn the parents for raising idiots?

Hold the parents responsible.



To MikeR
"That Vdare link you provided was not working. "

The problem appears to be the period at the end of the URL. Try http://www.vdare.com/walker/070117_top_ten.htm instead.

BTW, be they racial purists or not, they do provide some very good information.

Oh, and some other points to consider:

* Liking ones own race does not make one an evil racist.

* Pointing out facts pertaining to another race does not make one an evil hateful racist.

* In the same way, pointing out negatives regarding illegal immigration (i.e. that it hurts African-Americans the most), really doesn't seem to point to someone being a "racial purist"


slwerner
That Vdare link you provided was not working. I love that site though. They are racial purists yet do everything they can to occlude that fact.

sorry
Computer illiterate.

bfred
Didn't see that exchange, but I will say I love people who threaten to throw punches over the Internet. Very tough.

bfred
Not at all. Love people who threaten to throw punches over the Internet. Very tough.

free man
What a great post! You had more of substance to say than anyone else.

I hope we hear more from you!

bfred
inkling revival have a long past and at one point he got so crazy he literally threatened physical violence.

he called me all sorts of crude and vulgar names and then said he could he would punch me out.

i told him that was beyond the pale and i simply told him to kindly not address my posts anymore.

do you find that unreasonable?

religeouslib
Umm, if posting on Internet boards where political debate takes place is "your business," then I think you can expect people to respond. Sheesh.

inkling i will respond this once
once again you did not follow the thread and are responding to partial arguments.

i broke out the fbi statistics because a poster said this:

"If the Crime reports say black Male's commit 50% of the crimes in this country, is it racist to point it out, or better to pretend it's not a fact."

now is that a true fact that blacks commit 50% of crimes in this country.
the fbi says it is not.

as far as the hispanic thing i readily admitted hispanics were included in the statistics.

so let me summarize,

i refuted the fact that blacks committed 50% of the crime in america and acknowledged that hispanics were in fact, counted as white.

please read the entire thread before jumping to conclusions that are false.

so once again you had a complete misunderstanding of what was going on and wrote negative things about me without knowing what you were talking about.

sheesh

i again ask you to kindly stay out of my business.

Beowulfe
If there is nothing that they can be charged with then so be it. I'm surprised to hear that, but it's a LA or local legislative issue so I don't really have any basis for whether there was or not. I did not say that the DA should concoct anything to please a mob, so cool the rhetoric.

As for the school, it operates under a different set of rules. I promise you, overtly racist statements or actions at my high school would have resulted in substantial action. It sounds like some has been taken, so I'll reserve judgement on that front until we see how things play out. But do not trivalize what the white students did. "You want to sit under our tree? Here, how about a little lynching symbolism to remind you of your place." That is repulsive.

religiouslib
I'm glad you're here, you keep the debate lively and interesting.
Now if you have a test, that would take into account someone race and score higher, or lower because of said race, is that racist?

And you may want to know in pre 60's black men stayed in the home 85% with the family, why did that change?
Liberal racism of the "great society", they met well, which liberalism usually does, but it forced out the man, in order for the woman to get government benefits.

Skin color is meaningless (wildwest)
Yes, some Hispanics refer to themselves as brown-skinned, or non-white. And liberals often do the same -- witness Geraldo Rivera's (baseless) charge that the immigration issue is really about "too many brown-skinned people" entering the country.

Of course, the actual color means practically nothing at all. I've met "whites" so naturally dark that I'd call them non-white if I thought it mattered. I've met blacks almost as light as me (I'm one of those white-skinned guys who can't tan, but only burn). I've met Hispanics my own color, and Hispanics with classic negroid features (dark skin, curly hair, etc.)

Besides, I don't know anybody worth a conversation who actually thinks color makes a difference. What determines most things is cultural expectations. Raised among Mexican indians? thinks like a Mexican indian. Raised among ghetto blacks? thinks like a ghetto black. Raised among white middle-class? thinks like white middle-class? etc.

"Race" is nothing but a Leftist control-word. Thinking people talk about cultures.

continueint to religiouslib
The ugly fact is that many of them do not consider what we have classified as “crimes” to be crimes at all. Just for fun, do a search on the term “rapto”, or just read what the liberal Washington Times had to say about it (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A2420-2002Jun29¬Found=true). For more, try http://www.vdare.com/walker/070117_top_ten.htm. When one takes a closer look at the crimes committed by “Hispanics”, what one finds is that a disproportionate number are committed by people who are here illegally, who do not recognize nor respect our laws, and who would punch you in the face if you tried to explain to them that they were “really white”.

To deliberately include crimes committed by such individuals into the “white” category is, at the very least, disingenuous. At worst, it IS an attempt to upwardly bias the rate of “white” criminality. In recognition of their significant percentage of the population – not to mention their own self-reported desire to be their own category, why not break them out into their own offender category – after all, when categorizing the victims of crimes, the FBI already does just that?

religiouslib spouts on...
“some pretty convoluted logic there but hispanics do realize they are white.”

Oh, really!?!?

Then, do tell, why is it that pretty much any demographic break-out includes a “Hispanic” category. We see it for civil rights concerns, for them as a voting-bloc, as a statistic for college admissions, for school test performance, street-gangs, prison-gangs (this list could get exhaustive…). Should the congressional “Hispanic Conference” be disbanded because it is really a white group?

The simple point to make to you is that there is a significant (and growing) percentage of the broader “Hispanic” class who specifically DO NOT consider themselves to be white. Within that group, a very large subgroup is formed from “Hispanics/Latinos” who are here illegally – the vast majority of whom have no regard for or country, our culture, nor our laws. They’ve brought with them their south-of-the-border cultural attitudes and fully intend to go on living by their own cultural norms. They have an outlook on society (and their own role within) that is entirely different from that of the vast majority of US citizens – black, white, Asian, and Hispanic.

(too be continued)

inkling
don't hispanics refer to themselves as brown skinned. It seems that everything is broken down to skin color. White or pale evil, black or brown victims of the whites

beowulfe
I always want an honest answer. I always answer honestly. You listed historical data that was accurate. I’m not sure it applies to modern times. I asked a legitimate question.

If you were serious then I have cause to doubt your judgment because you are saying that the typical Klansman votes Democrat because they agree with the Democrats’ platform of welfare and affirmative action. I find that difficult to believe, but you did as I asked. Otherwise, I have no idea what their residential preferences are. I imagine they are more rural than urban and you can find them in most all states.

Wildwest: Modern statistics don’t apply because it is a theoretical situation. However, you can come up with a hypothesis based on the historical development of cities. The concentration of an underclass seems to happen regardless of race. Literary descriptions of 19th century London or George Washington’s description of NYC are worse than contemporary cities and there were very few blacks in either.

Racism
Sorry about the spelling, I was in a hurry.

Rascism
It has occurred to me that this is possibly the most misused word in the english language. What is typically a case of bigotry that we all are guilty of at one time or another is almost always called rascism. Why? Because this word is now used as a weapon agianst anyone who says something that someone else may not agree with. Conservative whites are accused of racism by race baiting blacks and liberal whites who talk about personal responsibility and conservative blacks are labelled "Uncle Toms". Concerned American citizens are accused of racism by elitists whites, blacks and illegal immigrants who want open borders and amnesty. As evidenced by many of the postings today, what the overuse of this word has brought us is what Shelby Steel calls "White Guilt". We have good hearted people arguing over things to do what , show us that they are not rascists? I don't beleive that any of them are. What we have is a discussion on the level that that Race Baiters and Main Stream media wants us to have. To argue against each other on the basis of race instead of on the actions of our fellow Americans. Bad deeds are bad deeds committed by all men. We conservatives only need to argue on the basis that morals and personal responiblity spread across all racial lines and are the backbone of our free society and by leading by example and truth in our own lives and discourse do we show that we are right and can prove the elitists and race baiters wrong.

religiouslib, please surrender
It's a fact that the FBI includes Hispanics among their "white" crime statistics. You lose.

It's a fact that when separated into Hispanic and non-Hispanic (usually a self-chosen distinction on relevant surveys) the crime rates of Hispanics are much, much higher than those of other whites. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, crime rates for Hispanics exceed those of blacks.

Those are facts. Pointing them out does not make one "racist."

You lose. As usual, religiouslib, you demonstrate an uncanny ability to misread statistics and mangle arguments involving them.

beowulfe, avoid religiouslib
beowulfe, apparently you haven't had the pleasure of attempting reasoned discourse with religiouslib before.

The man is simply and utterly incapable of understanding how statistics apply to arguments. However, he claims he works with statistics every day, so he cannot be persuaded that his application of statistics is wrong in any way. And worse, he genuinely appears to believe that by simply quoting a statistic, he has ipso facto won the argument, and feels perfectly justified in calling you names for failing to recognize his clear victory. I've personally attempted to correct his fumbling misuse several times, to no avail.

Best to just post your rebuttal, and then ignore the deluge of delusional nonsense that inevitably follows.

slwerner
some pretty convoluted logic there but hispanics do realize they are white.

just as italians refer to other italians as paizanos some hispanics refer to each other as la raza.

i mean have you ever had any dealings with another culture outside your own.


religiouslib, help me out, here
I think the allusion to Italian and Irish crime rates from a century ago is historically interesting. What I can't figure out is why that makes a lick of difference today.

In fact, if I understand you correctly, you're refuting the entire Liberal theology of race. Italians had a similar crime rate to modern blacks when they first arrived; they received zero government help, but eventually achieved respectability and social integration. Modern blacks exhibit the same patterns as historic immigrant populations, but received scads of government help, and consequently have NOT been able to achieve general respectability (despite the huge rise in the black middle class). Huge segments of most American cities remain poor and black, crime rates among blacks double and triple those of whites (non-hispanic) and asians, rates of out-of-wedlock births quadruple those of whites (non-hispanic) and asians, etc.

Doesn't that suggest to you that the government aid given to blacks has extended and exacerbated the problem? and that simply leaving them alone would eventually allow them to integrate into society at large and achieve greater respectability?

RE: religiouslib
"if you have ever studied logic you would know that statement is false on its face."

Wow. Just wow. First of all, find me just one study on the subject that contradicts that statement. Second of all, even IF one such study exists, wasn't it YOU who accused ME of "splitting hairs"? I completely SHRED what tiny argument you have, AND point out that you are also a liar, and the best you can come up with is trying to pick apart some litteral meaning, and not the intended meaning, of a single sentence?

FACT: Blacks commit proportionally more of nearly all types of crimes than whites.
FACT: Blacks commit more violent crimes than whites overall.
FACT: Whites are NOT 68% of the population, but over 80% of the population.

Now are you going to be silly enough to try to dispute any of that, or are you going to nitpick at grammar now?

and
and the attitudes of Radical Islamists are close to that of racists, only it is based on religious values.


and
and Naziis and NeoNaziis and Croatians apparently don't think racism is a problem.

religiouslib
So complain to Fox News, and to the school. Fox interviewed the teacher at the school. I said it was hard to believe.

What are you saying "sheeesh" to me for? You bring up a different incident. I didn't say Whites did not acknowledge that they have to deal with racism. Maybe Klu Klux Klanners don't.






One thing
is certain. Nothing will deter the posters on TH who choose to focus on white racism. No one can argue that the history of white racism in this country was anything less than barbaric. That fact can not be denied.


However, things have changed for the better. No sane person can deny that. People who insist on sniveling and whining about that history are nuts. They are sick, hateful people.


I just realized that I had fallen into the trap of becoming angry at their outrageous comments. That is precisely what they want. These are perverted people. They are not worth the aggravation.


It will be difficult at first, but I have decided not to read the posts of these people. When I see their names I will scroll to the next posting. I think it is very unfortunate to see entire threads filled with one idiot's ravings and responses of posters who know how crazy the idiot's comments are.


I am sure it won't happen, but I believe that if nobody responded to these nut cases, and I mean nobody, they would go someplace else. I think that would be a good thing.

Still more logic to trip you up...
reliogiouslib responds – “after re-reading your post i realized you actually believe that the fbi is involved in a conspiracy to make black crime look less by including hispanic under whites.”

Hey, it’s not just me. There are literally millions of others who recognize this – including some who work for the FBI and have challenged the way their Bureau has chosen to report data.

The term “Hispanic” is unfortunately broad. Yes, as you infer, Spaniards are considered Hispanic – but not Italians, as you also infer. It also includes a good many Spanish-speaking blacks with Spanish surnames, for that matter.

Rather than try to get me to “realize” that Hispanics are white, why don’t you try to convince those “Hispanics” that they are white? When they say “La Raza”, they are most certainly NOT referring to the white race (it’s another one of those logical conundrums for you).

re: bfred
bfred wrote:
1. It doesn't matter if some within the school viewed it as a joke, the students who hung the nooses should be expelled and charged with crimes.

...

What crimes? The DA as well as federal prosecutors both scoured the law books in search of something to charge them with, and couldn't find anything. What crime do YOU think they should be charged with? Or do you just think the prosecutors should simply concoct, out of thin air, a crime just so they can charge the kids with it?

Yes, Anthony Thomas
...that fellow's comments were an honest evaluation of his own thoughts. "I don't like most blacks, but I like the successful black thinkers..." The man probably doesn't know many blacks personally, and is responding to what he sees -- gansta culture, which is repulsive, and successful middle-class professional blacks, who are impressive.

You, on the other hand, took the low road, and evoked images from almost a century ago, in a clear attempt to heap guilt on him. You took his honest self-evaluation as a personal insult (which it was not) and escalated to a full-blown racial incident. YOU did. He's guilty of a sheltered life; you're guilty of race-based manipulation.

Grow up. Deal with what you see. Stop playing guilt manipulation games.

beowulfe
"every study ever conducted has found"

if you have ever studied logic you would know that statement is false on its face.

RE: religiouslib
Do you deny that the crime rate among blacks is over 2 times that among whites?

I took 3 of the most EGGREGIOUS crimes just as examples, you nut case. Are you going to try and tell me that it is your opinion that rape, murder, and burglary are crimes that are equal in magnitude to, say drunkeness? If so, then I'd simply say that is typical of pea-brained morons on the left.

Next, your claim that whites only constitute 68% of the population is patently false. What you MEANT to say is that NON-HISPANIC whites are 68% of the population, however your crime stats don't make that distinction. Whites, including Hispanics, as your crime statistics include, are about 80% of the population.

As far as I can find, the FBI doesn't publish on its website the crime rates of Hispanic and non-Hispanic white groups, and only publishes their combined stats, but every study ever conducted has found that Hispanics commit proportionally more crime -- particularly more violent crime -- than non-Hispanic whites (Google "The Color of Crime" for one such study).

slwerner
i repeat-- are you maintaining hispanics are not white?

are you really that ignorant?

KKK? Seriously?
This is what we're talking about, the KKK? A small collection of leftover imbiciles? This pathetic group of ignorant losers has no material impact on life in America today, but apparently the label still has some emotional weight. Let's stick to what's germaine here and not waste time talking about a few hundred fringe lunatics.

1. It doesn't matter if some within the school viewed it as a joke, the students who hung the nooses should be expelled and charged with crimes.

2. Kicking a student in the head once knocking him unconscious is a serious action and those who did it have been rightly charged with felonies.

3. The parents on both sides of this event have clearly failed their children in every way.

4. Jena, LA is a town of 3,000 people in the middle of nowhere (look on a map). Conditions there are not reflective of the state of race relations in the U.S. I haven't seen anyone on this board defend what the white students did, so those who claim that Conservatives think they did nothing wrong are being disingenuous. Make your argument on the merits, don't just claim that Conservatives are racists. That's descicable and lazy.

5. As Elder points out, this is nowhere near what happened at Selma. It demeans what people there went through to get the right to vote for blacks to claim that six students who beat and nearly killed another have the moral high ground here. They have been charged with crimes, not physically abused by the police.

Now for a logical exercise...
religiouslibs questions – “…are you denying that according to the fbi, 70% of all crimes are committed by whites?”

reliogiouslib,

You’ve done your best to struggle through the math; now try to struggle through the logic:

The FBI “white” perpetrator category is an amalgamation of both white and Hispanic perpetrators (see my previous response to you). If fact, some even claim that in cases of a mixed black-white race offender, such individuals are also considered “white” for FBI crime stat purposes (I’ve personally seen no supporting evidence for this, but it is not outside the realm of possibility). What is certain is that Hispanic offenders ARE counted as white.

Here’s that logic I was referring to:

70% + 28% = 98%; and 100% - 98% = 2%. So, using your very best logical efforts, do explain how you can believe that Asians and Hispanics combine to commit only 2% of crimes?

One need only open a local newspaper to find a significant list of crimes in which persons of Hispanic heritage are involved. Does 2% really make sense to you?

slwerner
after re-reading your post i realized you actually believe that the fbi is involved in a conspiracy to make black crime look less by including hispanic under whites.

you don't even realize hispanics are white do you.

i mean are spaniards white are italians white.

please
maybe you want to re-think your statement.

Free Man, would that everyone of
every color could learn the lesson you learned and live your life by!! You are a credit to the human race, something that is unfortunately too rare.

slwerner
you are correct, hispanics are considered white.
exactly what is your problem with that?

at any rate i was responded to a post that said 50% of crime was commited by blacks.
i think it was wildwest.

i have proved that is not true.


beowulfe
typical of some conservatives to selectively spin statistics.

are you denying that according to the fbi, 70% of all crimes are committed by whites?

you want to only look at 3.



come on that is intellectually dishonest.

as far as your proportionally over represented, using your definition whites are also over represented as as only 68% of america is white and they are reponsible for 70% of crime.

now you can spin some more and say well blacks are more over represented but now you are just
splitting hairs if you use that argument.


no burka for me
I hope that what you were saying in response to my post is that since the beginning of the war, 30 thousand Black Americans have been victims of murder in this country and not victims of the war in Iraq. In this context you are correct in stating that there is no outrage over this. When it comes to the MSMedia and the race baiters the only time things are an outrage is when it becomes a race charged headline grabbing issue. Lets look at the legacy 1) Duke Rape case 2) Tawana Brawley 3) all day everyday coverage about OJ even Michael Vick. The only angle that I kept hearing about on TV is was he being treated unfairly because he is black. Not that he just may happen to be the dumbest athelete to ever live. These people have no interest in the everyday lives of average Americans of any color let alone Blacks. These times should remind us all that the only people that can change this is us, the average Amercicans. And it starts when we stop having petty arguments about race and who is at fault and start to tell the truth about what is wrong with all of our communities, and that is being responsible for one's own actions, children and life is no longer being taught or excercised by signifant portion of our country.

A second look at the stats...
religiouslib gives us a good link: "here is the website for those who doubt my words.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_43.html"

Thank you very much, religiouslib. It always a good idea to look at some actual numbers.

However, go back and take a good second look at those numbers. Can you tell us of arrest rates for Latino/Hispanics compare to either whites or blacks?

Of course you cannot. I don't know if the matter has ever come up on this forum before, but I've seen it on numerous others. The fact is, that the FBI does not have a "Hispanic" classification for perpetrators of crime – they are uniformly lumped into the “white” category. This little factoid is well known by many, and has lead to some controversy in as much as the FBI does recognize a “Hispanic” category for crime victims.

I cannot personally attest to the motivations for the way in which the FBI has chosen to consider Hispanic criminals as white, but it has been often suggested that the reason this is done is to help to “mask” the true disparity between the rates at which blacks and whites commit crimes.

It might not have occurred to you to consider that blacks make only approximately 13 percent of the overall population of the United States. Thus, any statistic (crime, employment, college admission, etc) for which they achieve a percentage higher than 13% is a clear indication that they are over-represented in that measure as compared to their percentage of the population.

On second thought, maybe you didn’t really want to post that link?

inkling_revival writes:
"Real adults can talk about their feelings without neurotic thought"

Well excuuuuse me for not responding positively to someone calling African Americans "disgusting".

"Anthony Thomas wrote, in response to a well-meaning white man's genuine expression of feeling"

Well that feeling was offensive and degrading to blacks.

" but you don't get to control this conversation. Real adults can talk about their feelings without neurotic thought."


What do you call him calling blacks "disgusting"?
Was that an analytical thought?

bytheocean
what you heard is wrong, people were upset by the nooses and two white teenagers were arrested and charged in another town for having a noose hanging from the back of their pick-up.

was this a joke also

Authorities in Alexandria, less than 40 miles southwest of Jena, arrested two people who were driving a red pickup Thursday night with two nooses hanging off the back, repeatedly passing groups of demonstrators who were waiting for buses back to their home states.

The marchers had taken part in the huge protests in Jena that accused authorities there of injustice in the handling of racially charged cases -- including the hanging of nooses in a tree after a group of black students sat in an area where traditionally only white students sat.

The driver of the red truck, whom Alexandria police identified as Jeremiah Munsen, 18, was charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor -- a reference to the 16-year-old passenger. Munsen also was charged with driving while intoxicated and inciting to riot, according to the police report.

As officials were questioning the driver, he said he had an unloaded rifle in the back of the truck, which police found. They also found a set of brass knuckles in a cup holder on the dashboard, the police report said. Watch cops respond to the dangling nooses »

The passenger told police he and his family are in the Ku Klux Klan and that he had KKK tattooed on his chest, the police report said. He also said that he tied the nooses and that the brass knuckles belonged to him, the report said.

sheesh

RE: religiouslib
religiouslib wrote:
i just looked up national crime statistics for 2006 from the fbi and 69% of all arrests were whites and 28% were black.

....

Now dig deaper into the stats. While blacks constitute only 13% of the population:

- 51% of the murders were committed by blacks.
- 32% of the rapes were committed by blacks.
- 56% of the robberies were committed by blacks.

In fact, in EVERY statistical category except two (DUI and Liquer laws) listed on your link, blacks are proportionally overrepresented as the perpetrators.

Most people correctly state that 1) blacks commit propotionately more crimes in general than whites, and 2) blacks commit more violent crimes than whites. Both statements are true, and your source confirms that.

SFC.....Put your thinking cap on
SFC LAARNG writes: Thursday, September, 27, 2007 10:57 AM
Shell 8:42 Post
You claim that the school, parents and authorities did not do enough to punish the students for hanging the nooses.....

So I think maybe you should read a little bit more about the situation and not just rely on the television for your facts.
_________________________________

Ah, well SFC perhaps you need to actually think about the post you are reading before you accuse someone with your smarmy comments. However, in reading your reply, I can assume you are a pompous bloviated idiot.

Yes, I knew those boys were expelled, that is not what I was implying, nor did I write that. You sure are a scholar, aren't you?

What I meant to say, based on the information I have READ (and not what I saw on TV as you once again implied incorrectly as always), sifting through every agenda based column, that regardless what those nooses implied, racial tensions soon after were brewing.

The air was thick with tension. Where there is smoke, there is fire. To me, it seemed that despite whatever was done was in my opinion, "window dressing" and not enough to deal with the real issues.

So, back off, you're an idiot.


An interesting statistic to ponder.
According to the Census Bureau, in the states won by John Kerry, blacks constituted approximately 5% of the population, while in the states won by George Bush, blacks constituted about 20% of the population.

Hey, MikeR, which of those states -- "blue" or "red" -- do you think Klansmen would prefer to live, and why?

a few points
I had heard that the nooses were hung before the assault and battery. I had heard that the whole school took it as a joke including the teachers, hard as that is to believe but that was what a an interviewed teacher said. I had heard that the boy beaten up was in no way related to the boys who hung the nooses.

I find that Leftists teach that only Whites are racist and no one else is, and I find that contrary to history. I find that Chinese, Korean, Black, etc teenagers do not fight racism in themselves because they have been taught that it is not their problem.
I think that should change.





freetothink
your very premise is racist.
so blacks are so stupid that they have allowed liberals to dupe them into making less of themselves by offering them educational and economic advancement.

what a reasonable argument that is. lol

i just looked up national crime statistics for 2006 from the fbi and 69% of all arrests were whites and 28% were black.

see you guys simply assume that most crime is committed by blacks and it simply a racial myth if i may put that kindly.

here is the website for those who doubt my words.


http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_43.html

No Burka For Me
How is killing enemy soldiers in combat murder?

Who does the Klan support?
Let's see, which party thinks blacks are inherently inferior? Democrats.

Which party supports an organization whose founding priciple was the extermination of the "black, brown, and yellow races"? Democrats.

Which party's policies have been directly responsible for the perpetuation of the racial divide in wealth and income? Democrats.

Methinks you asked a question you really didn't want an honest answer to, MikeR.

religious lib
hispanic crime statistics indicate similar problems. Diggin up the past has no relevance to today problems. I am sure the blacks being terrified by their fellow blacks in detroit take great comfort knowing that the 20's had high murder rates. People today are concerned with todays problems

ANTHONY THOMAS

.....Your incessant never ending whining on TH is becoming tiresome and boring ...try to develop some new ideas and stop blaming Whitey for the past ...

.....Whites are not responsible for you being born black ...God did that ...so why not blame Him? .....COLOSSUS

Rocker
How horrible it is that people should be prosecuted for crimes!

There are separate issues that I see are
all being lumped together by the "race baiter's" of Jackson and Sharpton.

1. Those who hung the nooses in the tree should have been charged with a crime. What I have read is that the nooses were hung by white kids after black kids sat under a tree where the white kids usually hang out. In my opinion it constitutes a terroristic threat intended to intimidate the black kids and those responsible should be charged accordingly.

2. Six of any race, creed, color, or nationality on one of any race, creed, color, or nationality is an assault and once the victim of the attack is on the ground unconscious and unable to defend themselves the crime elevates if they continue to beat on the victim. Those six should be charged to the full extent of the law. Some of those six already have prior arrests and convictions for other crimes. I'd say their parents have failed and thus the kids should remain locked up or they should be removed from their homes and placed in the custody of a third party till their trials can be heard.

3. In the case of the one who was convicted as an adult and then had his conviction overturned on appeal, he should be released from the adult prison he was sent to and should have a hearing to determine if he should be released pending a higher appeal of the overturned conviction or the filling of juvenile charges. If released he should be placed in the custody for the same reason listed above.

When cases of the legal system not working properly are turned into racial issues we all loose because it divides us and fosters racial hate between us, which people like Jackson and Sharpton then use to further their agendas of making themselves into important "leaders" of their community. Mr. Elder makes good points and we need more people like him to stand up and call out people like Jackson and Sharpton when they use issues like this to their advantage and make false or untrue statements to further their agenda.

Real Story
If you would prefer to hear the real story about this issue, read what a local says about the facts of the case and the interference by the self serving media hogs


http://www.authorsden.com/categories/article_top.asp?catid=23&id=32967

wildwest
LA is predominately hispanic so do your racial theories apply there also.

if you studied urban american history you would realize that the same thing happened with irish and italians when they were poor in the inner core of the cities.

i mean do the gangster wars of the 1920'S ring a bell for you i.e. al kapone and others who terrorized entire cities.

mike r
crime statistics do not support your contention. Statistics are extremely distressing for the black community. It would seem that blacks might find safer neigborhoods if they learned to trust the legal system and were more vigilant in reporting crimes and cooperating with the police to get criminals out of their neighborhoods. Very difficult to do but still a viable action

religiouslib
So what I wrote was not true? If the Crime reports say black Male's commit 50% of the crimes in this country, is it racist to point it out, or better to pretend it's not a fact.

liberals have destroyed the black man and his family with their so called government help programs.
If a party panders to the blacks, and treats them as if they're still on the plantation, would you call that racism?
Disprove the facts, please, then will talk about racism.
Liberal racism as a start.

miker
libs and blacks always moan about the klan. Exactly where is their power base and who is courting their support. This is just another case of libs and blacks putting out a non-existent boogerman as though they are still controlling voters anywhere. But if you know of where they hold power and are either promoting racism, or repressing blacks, are in charge of any govt govt organizations, contact the civil rights div of the attorneys office and they will come forth with legal action. Make you case or stop the nonsense. Baseless accusations don't win points in discusssions. FYI the repubs repudiated duke years ago but i recall he got a warm welcome at one of iran's hatefests

wildwest
That phenomenon is actually divorced from race. If there were no blacks in this country, the situation in the cities you describe would be the same.

Sharpton and Jackson
My problem is that they do nothing to heal any rifts on both sides with discrimination. they take teaching moments and exploit them for personal gain.

religious lib
i forgot to mention new orleans where the natl guard is required to patrol the streets

relious lib
just look at any large metropolitan city where blacks represent the majority. Cleveland, detroit, newark, chicago, pittsburg They all have high crime rates and the areas where blacks are majority are akin to war zones. Fortunately for the suburbs, blacks ttend to favor victimizing their black neighbors first

beowulfe
Set aside the history for a moment and tell us what party you think Klansmen support today and why.

it is astounding to me
the number of racist comments on this thread.
larry elders point is lost in the morass of angry voices decrying blacks.

here are a few examples with my comment in capital letters.

Carjacking
drive-by
Mobs burning
wonder what race people think of when the here these words?
Thomas did you know Japan and Australia won't let blacks move to their country, why do you think that is?

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS FREETOTHINK?


They think that they are entitled to live responsibility optional, consequence free alternative lifestyles financed by the same evil white, heterosexual male peons who form the majority of the income tax base.

WHO IS THEY AND WHAT SORT OF RESEARCH SUPPORTS THIS CONCLUSION DEMOSTHENES?

I have become very disgusted with "blacks",

HOW MANY 'BLACKS' TO YOU KNOW WALTER PAZIK AND DO YOU HAVE FRIENDS WHO ARE 'BLACKS'.

It is long past the time when losers like you step up and recognize that the myriad of problems facing the black cities are the result of blacks themselves. You distain education, prey upon other blacks, rerfer to each other by the most vile of epithets all the while blaming whites and in particular white repubs.

AND JUST WHERE ARE THESE BLACK CITIES YOU TALK ABOUT WILDWEST. I GUESS TO YOU BLACKS LIVE IN A SEPARATE COUNTRY. I GUESS SEGREGATION WAS OPTIONAL IN AMERICAN CITIES UNTIL THE THE 70S RIGHT?


NOW I COULD GO ON WITH THIS BUT IRREGARDLESS OF THE FACTS OR HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT JENA, THIS IS THE MOST DISGUSTING DISPLAY OF IGNORANCE I HAVE EVER SEEN AND I HONESTLY THOUGHT WE HAD EVOLVED PAST THIS SORT OF THING BUT OBVIOUSLY NOT.

GOD HELP AMERICA

Too All
What is always so intersting to me is how these issues always tend to bring out the worst on both sides and very few seem to ever see "the Forest for the Trees" to coin a phrase. I am a black man from Maryland that has experienced racism first hand on a variety of levels. When I was young first I was confused, then as a teenager I became angry and could not wait to move further north in order to escape the southern mentality. What I discovered was that I received more overt rascism from so called northeast liberals than I ever received in Maryland. But I also met plenty of white people that gave me advice about myself that many people call racist today. Things like how I dressed and how I carried myself. I am thankful for the criticism that these folks gave me as they were just trying to help me succeed. It finally dawned on me that the best way to beat any racist white or black was to become the thing they feared the most. A successful, hardworking, free thinking black man who is responsible for his own actions, loves this country and will defend it and its founding principles. This is the key to success. The biggest mistake that the Jena 6 made was to allow themselves and their anger to become just another part of the stereotype that the rascists and the race baiters use to further their own agendas. Nobody really cares about them or the white victm outside of their own families and we do not add to the solution as long as we use these sad moments to fall prey to the arguments that the media whores and race baiters try to shove down our throats.

Just my two cents...

it is astounding to me
the number of racist comments on this thread.
larry elders point is lost in the morass of angry voices decrying blacks.

here are a few examples with my comment in capital letters.

Carjacking
drive-by
Mobs burning
wonder what race people think of when the here these words?
Thomas did you know Japan and Australia won't let blacks move to their country, why do you think that is?

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS FREETOTHINK?


They think that they are entitled to live responsibility optional, consequence free alternative lifestyles financed by the same evil white, heterosexual male peons who form the majority of the income tax base.

WHO IS THEY AND WHAT SORT OF RESEARCH SUPPORTS THIS CONCLUSION DEMOSTHENES?

I have become very disgusted with "blacks",

HOW MANY 'BLACKS' TO YOU KNOW WALTER PAZIK AND DO YOU HAVE FRIENDS WHO ARE 'BLACKS'.

It is long past the time when losers like you step up and recognize that the myriad of problems facing the black cities are the result of blacks themselves. You distain education, prey upon other blacks, rerfer to each other by the most vile of epithets all the while blaming whites and in particular white repubs.

AND JUST WHERE ARE THESE BLACK CITIES YOU TALK ABOUT WILDWEST. I GUESS TO YOU BLACKS LIVE IN A SEPARATE COUNTRY. I GUESS SEGREGATION WAS OPTIONAL IN AMERICAN CITIES UNTIL THE THE 70S RIGHT?


NOW I COULD GO ON WITH THIS BUT IRREGARDLESS OF THE FACTS OR HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT JENA, THIS IS THE MOST DISGUSTING DISPLAY OF IGNORANCE I HAVE EVER SEEN AND I HONESTLY THOUGHT WE HAD EVOLVED PAST THIS SORT OF THING BUT OBVIOUSLY NOT.

GOD HELP AMERICA

Only a kooky commie...
...would think the savage beating of a kid -- white, black, or otherwise -- is somehow justified.

As for the "white supremecist Republicans", here's a few questions for you:

Which party founded the Ku Klux Klan?
Answer: Democratic.

Which party nominated to the Supreme Court a Klansman?
Answer: Democratic (FDR nominated Hugo Black).

Which party elected a member of the Klan to the presidency?
Answer: Democratic (Harry Truman).

Which party CURRENTLY touts the only federally elected Klansman?
Answer: Democratic ("Conscience of the Senate" Robert Byrd).

Which party assumes that blacks are too stupid to fairly compete with whites, and thus must be granted a host of "free stuff", known in the common tongue as "affirmative action"?
Answer: Democratic.

And my favorite: Which party supports an organization founded by someone who once said "Colored people are like human weeds and are to be exterminated"?
Answer: Democratic (quoted from Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood).

Try as you might to argue this fact, but there is no arguing that the true heart of racism lies within the Democratic Party.

georgetwin
I am beginning to think that our serious discussions are to libs like dogsh*t is to flies. Just like the bigger pile of dogpoop brings more flies, the more serious the subject the more leftist looney tunes come out of the woodwork

Rocker
Well, Girlyman is up early this morning! Let's see, you calling Mr. Elder names would make you a racist. Your blanket indictment of a group of people would be profiling. Not very LIBERAL of you is it?

And bye the way
The student that they assaulted had absolutely nothing to do with the noose situation

subtle dodge
Elder claims that rational people can disagree about whether the original charges were excessive. That at least acknowledges that the heart of the injustice in the case seems to be the way that the DA bent the law to get the black students into more legal jeopardy than the law called for. But he does not actually justify that claim with any arguments, or point to anyone who does.

When the DA who brought the case was given space in the New York Times to defend his actions he also skipped the chance to defend this most damaging of his actions.

Is "rational people can disagree" now short hand for, I don't have to talk about the facts that contradict the case I want to make?

Shell 8:42 Post
You claim that the school, parents and authorities did not do enough to punish the students for hanging the nooses. I will tell you that the students were punished. They were initially expelled. It was later appealled and turned into a suspension. The students were made to attend a separate school while the appeals were going on. When I say separate school, in Louisiana, we have disciplinary schools for students who cannot conform at the normal ones. This is the type of school that I was referring to. The students were also investigated by the FBI for Hate Crimes. When the students were allowed back to school they were separated from the rest of the students for weeks before they were allowed to associate with the others. So I think maybe you should read a little bit more about the situation and not just rely on the television for your facts.

Anthony Thomas
I did what you said, but the still beat the old white lady up for her SS money.
Carjacking
drive-by
Mobs burning
wonder what race people think of when the here these words?
Thomas did you know Japan and Australia won't let blacks move to their country, why do you think that is?

Anthony Thomas, grow up
Anthony Thomas wrote, in response to a well-meaning white man's genuine expression of feeling: "Well thanks alot Walt, I know us poor,ignorant black folks are such horrible people, please forgive us for being so disgusting. Can I shine your shoes for you , take our your trash out, clean your house."

No, Mr. Thomas, you can stop playing victim when it's not called for, and stop invoking 70-year-old images that have no relevance in the modern world.

The "black victim culture" is nothing more or less than neurotic individuals who have learned to manipulate others by guilt, establishing control in a conversation. The common name for people exhibiting this pathology is "control freak." Guys like you, Anthony, need control in order to feel safe, so you evoke white guilt at every possible opportunity. It makes you Lord of the Conversation, and keeps you feeling safe.

The article is about whether race myths are relevant in the Jena situation. But your letter, Anthony Thomas, is not about race; it's about just another control freak playing manipulation games. And in my experience, the best defense against control freaks is to identify the attempt at manipulation while refusing to play the game.

So, sorry, Anthony Thomas, but you don't get to control this conversation. Real adults can talk about their feelings without neurotic thought Nazis stomping on their words, which is what you did to him. Grow up, or better yet, go get psychological help, and then come back and engage in thoughtful conversation, and you'll be welcome here. But not before. We have no room for race-based control neuroses here.

Walter Pazik
"I have become very disgusted with "blacks"

Well thanks alot Walt, I know us poor,ignorant black folks are such horrible people, please forgive us for being so disgusting. Can I shine your shoes for you , take our your trash out, clean your house.


"While I admire people like you, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, and many other black citizens"individuals for "the content of their character" to steal a phrase. Walter Williams for President, before any one running today. Pass it on. He can win in a landslide. Keep up the good work"


Awww isn't that that nice, why don't you take them out for a walk and give them a treat. LOl

The attempt to alter humankind
At the root of all liberal utopian schemes lies the myth that by wrapping the worst of human sins in chains, we can change who we are.

MikeR exemplifies the myth that affects the topic of race when he writes: "...the Jena Six ... is an example of the simmering race based hatred that still exists in this country. It is a far cry from what it was and we have made great strides in eliminating it; but it still exists and only time will mend those wounds."

The impulse to distrust what is different from ourselves is innate to human psychology. One can recognize it and make personal adjustments to minimize its effects; that's called maturity. Civilized adults teach themselves to do this.

But what the political and social Left attempts to do is stamp these innate human tendencies out of existence, by passing laws and creating taboos, and by ruining the reputations and careers of those who violate the taboos, however innocently. This is the opposite of maturity; it's a form of repression practiced on a societal level. It's pathological.

You cannot change human nature by creating taboos. When you wrap a real human foible in chains, you create tension that exhibits itself in the manner MikeR describes: there's a veneer of integration on the surface, but a simmering pot of real venom underneath, unmodified by reason. It will not go away. It's permanent, because the "cure" the Left offers us for racism is a "cure" that does not permit genuine human emotions any outlet.

I'm glad there are no longer separate lunch counters and bathrooms for different races in America (and I think that would have happened without the help of Left "church ladies" scolding us into conformity.) But race will continue to be a simmering issue until we've removed the taboos from the expression of any real sense of difference between races. Dialog is not possible in a culture chained by Leftist taboos.

rocker: Really?
Really? WRT the modern day Democrat Party, all I see is a group of morally superior “International Socialists” (iNazis) pandering to the same small ideological tent containing a cloister of like-minded organisms: Neo-Marxist female-chauvinists, Neo-Marxist gays, Neo-Marxist minorities, Neo-Marxist poor people, Neo-Marxist uneducated people, etc., every one of them fully ensconced in the “to each according to her needs” column of that great socialist equation. They think that they are entitled to live responsibility optional, consequence free alternative lifestyles financed by the same evil white, heterosexual male peons who form the majority of the income tax base.

rocker
now mommy's boy can add defending racist blacks to his list of his heroes. I guess there is enough room is his empty life to champion the parasitic illegals, the jr hitler i wsanna jihad, and now the blacks who live their i am a victim 24/7. But living with his mommy when he is 31 and riding his skate board to the video store leaves him plenty of time to continue his search of the net to find a woman. Guess what loser, you won't find a replacement for mommy and real women look for real man. Being an earner and looking like mommy didn't pick out you clothes scores more points with the ladies than tryoing to impress them with I am still a live at home boy. But perhaps you can also learn how to be a victim 24/7, your lifestyle goes a long way to proving that

Van: Really?
"The reason why black defendants are more likely to be acquitted than white defendants is that blacks are charged with considerably weaker evidence than whites."

Really? Given the fact that you are obviously a black-chauvinist Democrat firmly established on the "Plantation", you obviously need a dose of reality: most crime in certain urban communities happens to be "Black on Black" in nature. In said culture the black victims of crime refuse to testify (i.e., the "No-Snitch" policy) against a perpetrator because they are encourged by the mob mentality not to turn one of their own over to the MAN. Their own anti-white/anti-law bigotry just allows the same predators to get back on the street IOT victimize even more of their fellow blacks.

Kindly remove yourself from the Plantation & get an education.

Mike R
No question, both sides do it and it's a shame. Just so you know, I was not referring to you or your post, your post made me stop and think.

Mr. Elder
Thank you for such a wonderful analysis. It never ceases to amaze me how 'those two' take fear and victimization to a new level.

Now we just have to wait on Ayana to chime in.

Elder - Jena 6
Dear Larry,

I have become very disgusted with "blacks", while I admire people like you, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, and many other black citizens. This isn't so much a contradiction as an affirmation that I admire individuals for "the content of their character" to steal a phrase. Walter Williams for President, before any one running today. Pass it on. He can win in a landslide. Keep up the good work.

nydogg
other than living in the past and servicing the clintons I know see you are also a victim. It is long past the time when losers like you step up and recognize that the myriad of problems facing the black cities are the result of blacks themselves. You distain education, prey upon other blacks, rerfer to each other by the most vile of epithets all the while blaming whites and in particular white repubs. When you celebrate a lifestyle that encourages the use of the n word, refer to your women as b*tches and ho's you wonder why you lack self respect not only for others of your race but for yourselves. The reality you refuse to see is that far too many in your community have realized they are losers. When you don't prepare for your future you either end up living off of govt programs or if you do work yopu are sacking groceries, working mcdonalds or cleaning offices. But should anyone ever have the audacity to bring up these issues it is always because of racism. The real truth is that the majority of us on the right are tired of being labeled as the reason for your failures. But if you are satisfied with living as second class citizens then continue down the same road. Continue to quit school and ride the bus in your mcdonalds costume and shut up how we are resposible for your failures.

Van
Interesting charge "blacks are charged with far weaker evidence"...unfortunately saying things doesn't make them true. Do you have you own evidence to support such a claim?

Bob
What you say is true, but there are plenty of rightists who do the same thing, every day on these threads.

NY City Dog: That was uncalled for. I believe that Elder is sincere in what he writes. He offers a perspective that includes some legitimate questions.

Ny city dog
And aren't you suppose to go rob a 90 year old white lady of her purse? I hear kickin' when their down brings you luck.

Mr Elder sez:
"The black teenage defendants stand accused of beating a white teenager unconscious."

I believe an important phrase was omitted from that sentence. It should read that the beating occurred AFTER the white was first knocked unconscious by being thrown headfirst against a concrete wall.

Once the victim was safely unconscious on the ground, the Cowardly Five started kicking him in the head and elsewhere; real brave boys, those. They were accused of attempted murder for that little stunt, and rightly so. Once a man is unconscious, further beating is intended to inflict serious injury or death.


They do it every time
It's always nice when the leftists show their true colors. For some columns, some of them will start with posts that, although often a little nasty, do have some thought provoking content. At that point you say, "It's very worthwhile having the liberal posters here. They make us think twice about our pre-conceptions, and at worst, they keep us sharp." Conservatives have to win by persistent logic, we can't simply spout bumper sticker slogans and have people buy it wholesale.

However, sooner rather than later, a topic will come up where the article is a closely reasoned piece, full of statistics and cumulative evidence supporting the author's point of view - like this one.

At that point you say, "Boy, that makes sense. That is awfully tough to refute. They'll have a tough time picking this one to shreds."

Sure enough, when that happens, a few leftists swoop in, disparage the author, call names, and make some ad hominem attacks. No logical arguments, simply leftist ranting that exposes the poverty of their underlying ideas, and undermines anything they have said, before or going forward. At that point you know you can stop reading their posts, because they are intractable and have nothing worthwhile to contribute to the dialogue.

Always good to have a reality check on the quality of your opposition.

White Republicans
Van,
What is "White Republican Supremist"[sic]?Based on historical facts,Republican and White Supremist[sic] are opposites. Lousiana has ALWAYS been a Democrat state. Please look at the party who freed the slaves, look at the party who had the 1st Black elected representatives to Congress, look at the party of MLK and the Civil Rights Act(there were multiple ones starting in the 19th century). Please look at the party of the KKK. I don't think Mr. Elder represents "White Republican Supremist"[sic]
As for Jena 6, these boys are wrong in their actions. It has ZERO to do with their race. They need direction and a vision. Don't give me that Crap about no men role models in their lives or their econ status. What was our econ status 50 years ago? Better or worse now? But yet we are acting like a bunch of animals with MORE econ opportunity. It is about FREE WILL.
In our community, their is a CHURCH on EVERY CORNER! Where are the preachers with Character? Why can't they be mentors to our Black Youth? We need to look in our own house to fix this problem;it ain't "The Man's" fault either. I have more news for you..Hilary and the Democratic party ain't going to fix it either. Stop being an emotional slave, and get off of the plantation, brother.

I always wonder
When things like the Jena 6 happen, or Imus, or Brawley, is Al and Jesse's kneejerk reaction anger, or are they smiling because they plan to bring the circus into town once more?

Roadkill makes a valid point I forgot about. When both my mother and father were on juries for two different cases and the defendant was black, my folks were threatened right in the court room by the defendant's friends. One made signs of slicing his neck to my father. One followed my mother to the parking garage.

I still think whatever events led up to the blow of of Jena, the school, the parents and the community did nothing to mellow the tensions and should be held accountable for something.

Also, anyone beating up anyone else, no matter the circumstance, except self defense, is a crime, has always been a crime and should always be a crime.


oh boy, indeed
Here we go for another round. At least this is has a different angle.

First, do folks like Sharpton and Jackson represent the interest of blacks? No, they are self serving opportunists and panderers. If I had an issue, I would want them to stay away. Their slightest touch demeans you.

Next, is there unequal justice for blacks? In many cases yes. It is not necessarily overt or extreme, but it is wide spread. This is very similar to the fact that the rich receive more justice than the poor.

Last, is the Jena Six “Another Story of Unequal Justice for Blacks?” No, it is an example of the simmering race based hatred that still exists in this country. It is a far cry from what it was and we have made great strides in eliminating it; but it still exists and only time will mend those wounds.

Blacks soft on crime?
I've heard that blacks are the most common victims of black crime; but Jesse Jackson seems to be more upset that black criminals are in jail. Doesn't this make the community safer for the law-abiding blacks?

Van writes:
The reason why black defendants are more likely to be acquitted than white defendants is that blacks are charged with considerably weaker evidence than whites.

You mean the way OJ Simpson was aquitted for killing his ex-wife and Ron Goldman. Lack of evidence? Yea right! One reason blacks are aquitted more than whites is because gangbangers show up in the court room making implied threats agianst witnesses and victims. What happens is law enforcement abandons the victims to their fate at the hands of the thugs. Most black criminals harm black victims who live in bad neighborhoods run by gangs. White victims and witneses are more likely to testify against their attackers. Since most crime is intraracial; White on White and Black on Black, white defendents are convicted at a higher rate. It would do you some good to get your facts straight before sounding off.

Shafali
" it's still wrong for 6 black kids to attack a white kid regardless of the provocation. just like it would be wrong for 6 white kids to beat up a black kid."

Actually, it's wrong for 6 kids to attack anyone. regardless of how many of either race are the attackers or the victim.

What I'm trying to say is race doesn't matter. Assault is (morally wrong) against the law no matter what race the attacker or the victim.

Just like Beetlegeuse
"You've gone and done it now. You invoked the Justice Brothers."

You just have to say their name three times and they appear.

Elder
makes excuses for white supremacist republicans again.

The reason why black defendants are more likely to be acquitted than white defendants is that blacks are charged with considerably weaker evidence than whites.

And Elder naturally sees no problem with the fact that poor people get harshr sentences than rich because they don't have money to pay for good defense... very republican thought. And of course racism has nothing to do wit the fact that balcks get hasrjer punishments for same crimes than white do. No reason for concern becuase white repoublicans and thei black apologists just don't care.


Thankful for Larry
Because whites cannot say what he, Sowell, and Williams can say about Jackson and Sharpton. Thankful for Cosby too.
I'll know that the tide is turning when the Black Entertainment channel begins to give lots of time to spelling bee, and chess competition winners.
Thanks Mr. Elder

Unca Alby
I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed reading your post. The part that made me chuckle was when you said, "I feeeeeeeel your pain." Someone making fun of Bubba Ray Clinton always makes me laugh.

Uh oh, Shefali
You've gone and done it now. You invoked the Justice Brothers.

The resident king of those victicrats that Unca Alby was talking about earlier has an entire litter of kittens every time someone brings up Jessie and Al.

I think he's embarrassed by them.

I can't imagine why.

good grief
don't Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have better uses for their time? The real crime for black people is the ongoing crisis of the black family. Something like 70% of black kids are born out of wedlock. That's hurting black people a lot more than the actions of white racists, of which there are still a few, admittedly.

With regards to Jena - the school officials should have taken more action to come out against the nooses hung on school property and tried harder to diffuse the situation. That being said, it's still wrong for 6 black kids to attack a white kid regardless of the provocation. just like it would be wrong for 6 white kids to beat up a black kid.

we need to get beyond color and talk about actions and consequences. black people are just as capable of making moral decisions, of doing the right thing, etc. when we hold them accountable to the same standards, we are treating them as equals. when we hold them to different standards, we patronize them.

I've read quite a bit about this
ALL of it conflicting. But one thing that SEEMS to be true:
the 6 were charged with attempted murder, which was later lowered to assault of some kind.

Isn't this standard procedure with police and DAs all over the country? Even the one that 'had the biggest rap sheet' and was 'alledgedly' the one that knocked the vic unconscious - was charged with an assault, not the attempted murder.

All of this happened BEFORE the media got ahold of the story.

Oh Boy, here they come.
I'm waiting for someone on TH to opine that hanging nooses over trees is so "horrible" a "crime" that the white victims "deserved what they got."

You know that's gonna happen, right? Sooner than later.

Come on -- we do have our own small staff of "Victicrats" who like to visit us here on Townhall -- let's get it out in the open. Time to vent, folks, get it off your collective chests.

I feeeeeeeel your pain.




Or -- prove me wrong. I would *so* like to be proven wrong.
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