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Thursday, March 15, 2007
Larry Elder :: Townhall.com Columnist
If They're Wrong About Gore-bal Warming, So What?
by Larry Elder
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Dear Larry,

I'm a Democrat, and I enjoy your work. And I get very frustrated by those on the left who whine and are thin on the facts.

This brings me to my reason for this letter: Global warming.

The global warming debate is unique to humanity. If those who advocate "wait and convince more scientists" are wrong, following their advice may affect hundreds of millions of people, with possibly many killed by famine and flooding. On the other hand, if the people who advocate doing something now are wrong, the worst is mostly economic. That's a price I'm more than willing to pay to hedge my bets to protect the millions of lives at risk, as well as the ecosystems and animal species facing extinction.

Following the advice of the vast majority of the world's atmospheric scientists sounds like a bet all humans should take. -- Mr. Ph.D.

Dear Mr. Ph.D.,

Progress! At least you do not say, as does Al Gore, that the debate about global warming in the scientific community "is over." Nor do you assert, as does CBS's Katie Couric, that "all the experts agree." The debate is not over, nor do all experts agree.

You suggest that if the scientists are wrong, the worst case comes down to a few lost bucks. No, the worst case results in lots of lost bucks, retarded economic growth, lost jobs and weakened worker pensions, all while making nations, especially Third World countries, less prosperous and thus less capable of adapting to whatever damage might occur as a result of global warming.

The Kyoto Accords cost hundreds of billions of dollars, and figure to increase the gap between the rich and the poor. More will starve, with countries becoming less financially capable of dealing with diseases like malaria, HIV/AIDS, etc. Funds directed toward combating global warming mean less money for immediate crises like those mentioned. This can result in greater political instability and tyranny, with more failed states receptive to the Islamofascist lie that rich nations become so "at the expense of poor ones."

Furthermore, many scientists and economists see a small-benefit to high-cost ratio, again therefore diverting money otherwise spent on improved technologies that could wean us away from environmentally polluting energy sources, some of which come from hostile, politically unstable nations. This means less money for R&D on wind, solar, nuclear and other non-fossil fuel alternatives.

Life involves trade-offs. You underestimate the cost side while overestimating the benefit side. "Environmentalists" like Rachel Carson, author of "Silent Spring," helped to create the hysteria that eliminated DDT. The result? The return of malaria and needless deaths.

Kyoto already fails to meet its objectives in European countries that ratified the accords. Non-signatories like India and China, on the other hand, will soon become the biggest CO2 emission polluters. Neither nation has or will likely sign on to Kyoto. Thus any benefits -- and again many scientists expect only negligible, if any, post-Kyoto benefits -- will be offset by polluting nations like India and China.

Why does government need to mandate our way "out of this"? The Toyota Prius caught the public's fancy less because of government inducements and government R&D, and more because the company provided a product that consumers wanted. Understand this: the more prosperous a nation, the more its citizens can afford to demand "clean" means of production. Poor nations face bigger concerns -- like feeding their population, and providing housing and other basic services. Right now, neither India nor China can afford the luxury of "green" policies before things like food, housing and clothing.

The environment, like people, adapts. Entrepreneurs, right now, pour billions into "alternative" technologies as the costs of fossil fuels -- both financial and political -- go up, while the price of "clean" fuels go down. These things take time.

Even some United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change scientists say it's too late to reverse global warming. If so, oh well. Still others expect the "damage" to materialize centuries down the road, giving us plenty of time to change or adapt.

Why does speculating about things like global warming replace direct and immediate threats? Iran, for example, seeks a bomb. If they use it -- and they threaten to -- imagine the environmental damage to the planet, to say nothing about the genocide-like loss of human life. But where is the urgency?

Soon baby boomers will join the ranks of those on Social Security and Medicare, thus requiring younger workers to substantially increase their payroll taxes in order to allow boomers the same benefits enjoyed by their parents and grandparents. Where's the urgency?

Policy-makers face immediate, predictable and foreseeable -- and especially in the case of Iran -- serious around-the-corner issues. Yet we divert time, money and energy fretting about hypothetical "calamities" of global warming rather than dealing with real world/real time threats.

You've gambled on global warming. I just hope we're alive to place a bet. -- Larry

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About The Author
Larry Elder is a syndicated radio talk show host and best-selling author. His latest book, "What's Race Got to Do with It?" is available now.
 
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I heard a rumor
GW may be happening; after all, it's spring, and traditionally in the northern hemisphere we get GW until Fall, when GC (Global Cooling) sets in. I think this has been happening for a while. I may be wrong, but I don't think so.

I've heard the same thing happens in the Southern Hemisphere, except at opposite time of the year. Are those guys goofy, or what? They need to reschedule Christmas; who wants to celebrate Christmas in the summer? Get AlBore on that one, right away.

And how come, when we hear about all the cities flooding, we never hear about Sydney? Isn't it going to flood? Is the flooding in only the Northern Hemisphere? Is that fair? Can we pass a law?

Shameless plug
Since the name links aren't working, click on the following link to my blog to view an essay on a non-political subject, parenting:

http://viewfromtheisland.townhall.com/Default.aspx


Gore-bal warming is taking hits Larry!
It isn't fair to take on a Liberal mindset by using intelligence and reason.

They aren't prepared to listen and they have no defense. You know the drill. First will come more shrill emotionalism and then name-calling.

And I just can't contain myself... now John Kerry is off on a 10 city tour to tout his book.. on global warming. Someone should tell him he is pathetic and embarrassing. No shame.

It must be his vast experience in the jungles of VietNam that is his basis for facts on warming climates.

Marc
Kerry has a book on GW?





Has the guy ever had one original thought in his head?

Gorbal Warming..
Al Gore & John Kerry

I am having a sale on Carbon Offsets, special price for both of you if you call by Monday !

I don't care
For all the eastern geeks who were making jokes about how cold it was, it was 90 here yesterday, Mar, 13. One more record fell. Doesn't bother me. God will provide.

Doesn't matter that last summer had a triple digit heat wave that lasted most of July. I was in my summer mountain home. God will provide.

My house is well insulated, double pane windows, high efficiency AC. My summer place runs on Photo voltaic cells. God will provide.

Gas is three dollars a gallon out here. My car is fifteen years old and gets 20 mile per gallon. Last year I spent one thousand dollars on repairs. I'm never getting rid of it. No depreciation, no car payments, lower insurance and registration. God will provide.

Actually, God only provided me with a mind to think. All of global warming was predictable. If you folks want to say its a hoax, hey, fine by me.

When you stand before God and he asks you about your stewardship, try not to look too foolish.

Oh good grief,
BHL. We've had 80-degree weather in March where I live-but it's not unusual to have a few unseasonably warm days in spring. In winter we're on the receiving end of a week or so of sub-zero night temps, to complement a few days of barely above zero days. But here in the valley we don't get a lot of snow. Never have-and after forty years of living here I still miss Michigan's white Christmases. We also get a couple weeks of 100-degree plus heat every summer. But then I guess a semi-desert climate has no innate characteristics. Darned if I'll give up my Expedition, though. I LIKE not riding a lawnmower into town or up over the mountain passes...one wonders why, if you take this so seriously, you're not walking everywhere you go. After all, a car belches forth far more CO2 just idling than you ever would by simply walking. The trees, by the way, love all that CO2.

It's ocean and air currents, the earth's rotation, and seasonal tilt (the spring storms are worse than the winter ones here) that cause weather. GW as it's bleated today IS a hoax. Nobody can reliably predict next Friday's weather, much less what will supposedly happen fifty years from now. At which time my carbon footprint will have mingled with the columbines near our mountain home.

Just my $0.02 from a gal who remembers the Global Cooling panic of thirty years ago.


Environmentalists hurt the poor
Environmentalists are always hurting the poor, but somehow they come off in the leftist mind as squeaky clean. Yes, it's true that in Kyoto, they have allowed poor countries like India and China a break, but what about poor people here in the U.S? I haven't heard anything so far.

The Ph.D. in this article says, "if the people who advocate doing something now are wrong, the worst is mostly economic. That's a price I'm more than willing to pay." It's a good bet that the writer of that letter is wealthy enough so that a few dollars won't mean much, but for many of us it's a different matter.

Maybe Mr./Ms. Ph.D. should think about the distribution of these economic costs instead of just assuming that all of us can pay them.

What got me was the polar bears...
Like polar bears only run on ice and DON'T SWIM... Poor guy was probably tuckered out from playing with it, just like he plays with his food - those funny seals and such.

Did any of you hear about the school that REQUIRES the parents of students to come in and watch the Gorebal warmin movie with them?

The United Nitwits spends billions on mosquito nets but not one nickel for DDT - billions for condoms, but not a nickel for abstinence or circumscion of males.

But all the small children can be frightened by GW!


BHL
Let's see, last I checked, my old Toyota,then 15 years old, leaking oil, mind, was getting 37mpg in the city and all I had to do was replace the oil and fill 'er up with((gasp!) gas. That seems to be safer than any alternative fuels or nickel batteries at the moment...but bully for you, you use batteries for energy.
Yep, I got great windows, AC,etc...but here's the thing...in Summer,it is HOT!!! In winter, it can get mighty COLD!!! The fact that the temps are more hot or cold have nothing to do with Global warming. So you appease yourself and I promise not to laugh when you admit to buying Carbon Credits from Pappy or even Algore.

BHL, PS
Get over the God thing, will you? Sounds like you are "bitter".

Urgency? Not at all the issue!
Your reply to Mr PhD was excellent. It seems to be a new version of the tired old "blame humanity for all things" topic; so fool proof in scamming money for necessary governmental control mechanisms.

Isn't it, after all, a very cleverly crafted version through which Al GordO launches his get even strategy.

Support from his party and his cronies', and his controlers' is pay back for his having conceeded to be an "inconvenient toot".

Included in his proposed agendae are some near brilliant, and previously untried nuances. Al has formed of a company to market carbon credits (to him) as a means of justifying his fleecing of America. What is his value added otherwise?

When you think about it we all should get the 4-11 on that company. What are its guide lines? What regulations exist for the protection of consumers from carbon credit sellers? What exactly is this firm "licensed" to do?

There is, as I know it, only one such company out there at the moment, but it seems any one of us are free to form one of our own. This can evolve into a growth indusry for governments. Participants would rush to pay their taxes, because they would in turn be credited for doing so. I wonder would those credits be good toward infrequent travelers perks?

In the interest of self preservation I suggest we rush to register our firms, using Al Gore's business plan and model as precedent.

Can you tell us where to get the Company by laws, mission statement, and description of venues? How about a copy of its license to do business?

If we had all that we could simply copy and edit them in order to document and register our own companies. This is important, because we each can own companies which must be included in the provisos (for "taking care of us") when legislated carbon controls are made mandantory.

Al has sold a thinly veiled add on to utility and resource depletion taxes levied by goverment at every level. It is brilliant in that Al himself would actually collect fees based upon tax bills accounted and published as public record. Government would of course ad taxes as well, probably as a rider to licensing such "business". Al found ways to turn that into "more for gore" too, through the need for ever increaseng carbon credits as commerce continues to grow.

Is this the perpetual and infinite residual income engine ? Isn't such a structure of "taxes" paid directly to Carbon Creditors, on every dollar spent, in support of economies of scale underpinning todays Nations the true liberal utopia. Tax, in order to earn (subject to taxation) --- what a concept.

But you must hurry. The first legislation is going to be a blindingly complex series of mandates for "Carbon Credit Services Commissions". Their functions will drastically limit and tightly control the number of such firms to be allowed to conduct business.

First responders stand the best chance of assuring they are among the chosen. Short that any who slip through and obtaini licences could sue to require some one of the chosen to buy them out in a "good faith" effort at fairness.

After all, isn't this all about fairness? Or was it public concience? Or is it just business?
Nothing Personal!

Yes, a small economic concern.
Replacing all the current generation of fossile burning electric plants with Nuclear Units (based on the costs from circa 1980) would cost app. 10E12 (that's 10 raised to the 12th power) dollars. This would not take care of CO2 from other sources. Of course, if you look at Kyoto, there was never any intent in eliminating CO2 emmisions from the public. If there had been, no countries would be exempt and no allowance for carbon trading would be made. The whole thing is scam based on falsified evidence.

Everyone promoting this scam should be jailed.

Mr. PhD...
...is probably either a tenured university professor or a Federal civil servant. See Ann Coulter's column today for commentary on the job security of civil servants. People in those positions can afford bad economies because they will never lose their jobs.

It's also apparent that Mr. PhD is unaware that economies are what enable people to get the goods they need to survive. If the economies of the world are wrecked, more will die than will die of global warming.

BIGbelly
You've got to get your own column!

(GW is just another tool used by the left & it's useful idiots to talk the rest of us into submitting to oppression - the results of which will be elitist pigs living "high on the hog" while the rest of mankind lives in slavery.)

WHO PAYS
Larry,
This is it in a nutshell.

"if the people who advocate doing something now are wrong, the worst is mostly economic. That's a price I'm more than willing to pay to hedge my bets to....."

Mr. PHD, like all looney lefties, says he is willing to pay; but, of course he knows that what he is really saying is that he "is perfectly willing to make you and I pay for what he believes" and, that is at the heart of the issue in the split between the looney left and the conservative.

I do not believe that I should pay nor do I believe he should pay unless he does so voluntarily.

I don't believe that I am harming the environment out of proportion as to expectations to my normal existence. In other words, I live, I breath, and I make and move things, all of which are normal to virtually all life, so yes I have some negligible affect on the environment as does a cow or a monkey.

When the Amazon Basin during the El Nino years becomes a net emmiter of 900 million tons of co2 instead of a consumer of co2, then what we humans do pales in significance.

The Gore led environmental movement is not about the environment, it is about political control by the left. No more, no less.


To BHL
You need to change your posting nickname. Everytime I see it now it reminds me of the posting from the black lady who said sometimes all a bleeding heart does is ruin the carpet. When I see your header now I start laughing as I skip by the post knowing what's coming. As Rodney D. says, you can't get no respect.

Credits
If I personally turn several cows to fertilizer, do I get any credits? I'd prefer that they just give me money, though, or more steaks to turn to fertilizer.

Larry, Larry, Larry,
There you go again! Using logic and facts to counter libdolt emotional rants. You can never win such a battle, because facts and logic have no place in the libdolt mind.

I have met a few liberals that when presented with the facts have basically said, "wow, I am confused now, it seems that the skeptics are right and global warming is completely of natural origin." But those are few and far between.

Gas Guzzler and AC???
LMAO! The loony enviroLibs are just too much on this subject. One side of the mouth says GW! GW! All should repent and see my religion! Bow to the high priest of GW at the altar of GW!
The other side says - I have a gas guzzler and I run my AC 24/7! Becuase I'm special and I don't have to comply like the serfs that vote for me!
Is this a sick joke or what? By the way, CA has many "hot" days every winter. Are you so daft that you think others in CA who can think beyond your rhetoric are going to fall for that greenhouse gas you are emitting? I love being a red man in a overly blue State. Not.

BigBelly's Post(Spew alert!! :)
I needed a spew alert!!! That was great!!!

Major hypocracy
Ahh, yes, the liberal left. They're all for free speech, unless you're a major scientist who speaks out against global warming. Then you get death threats.

atheist scientist the other day
Some scientist atheist the other day said that humans are nothing more than a pollutant, a contaminant, in the universe.

So it is in our nature to pollute.

Good article
This one gets at an issue I've raised more than once: measures to reduce global warming by modifying human activity amount to a giant experiment, using human lives.

From no scientific perspective is it "proven" that the slight warming trend of the past century has been caused entirely, mostly, or even in part by man. You have to be able to control for more possible factors, in experimenting with or analyzing a phenomenon, to isolate with certainty which one or ones correlate most strongly with the observed event(s).

But our ability to do that is very limited, with a problem on the scale of the temperature of the globe over time. We have no way of eliminating, or controlling the impact on GW, of any factors other than the man-made.

If this were a lab experiment with no worse side-effects than using up a few consumables, that would be one thing. The price of not isolating the "big" factor in the first run is negligible, in such a situation.

But experimenting with people's lives is another proposal altogether. People are going to object to that on principle, and it takes genuine communion with unreality to not understand why, or respect their concerns.

As Bleeding Heart Liberal says, God will provide. BHL, you might want to consider Isaiah 54, where God promises that He will never let the earth's waters rise above their boundaries again. Just consider it, in the context of God providing.

Interestingly, God also assures us that He has already put the sins of His faithful people as far away from Him as the East is from the West (Psalm 103:12), and will remember our sins no more (Isaiah 43:25, and others, including Hebrews 8:12).

While I am in favor of being a good steward of the earth too, and advocate recycling, minimal use of gas and electricity, etc -- and I don't have the distaste of some economists for land-use restrictions and public interest in "green space" -- I doubt that any failures in this regard are going to come up at the last judgment. If God has promised not to remember our sins, I don't actually think He's going to bring them up.

God doesn't say exactly what the content will be when we give an account of ourselves to Him (Romans 14:12). What Romans 14 assures us is that we won't be there to give an account of anyone ELSE. I think degrees of solicitude for the earth make a superb example of just what Paul was talking about in this chapter: things that we are not to judge each other on, but be respectful of, even if we are convinced in our own hearts that another path is right for us.


GW is passe
The term in vogue is CLIMATE CHANGE. This way, virtually anything weather related is cause to panic. I predict that soon, the academics and beautiful people will coin a new phrase to include earthquakes and tsunamis in the hysteria. Surely evil capitalists are doing something to cause the increasing number of quakes hitting the poor people in Sri Lanka. I demand a UN investigation - they better regulate something in a hurry!

Lynne's Link
Lynne,

Thanks for the link. Here is another I would love all to read. I already posted it on comments page to Dr. Sowell's article on Global Warming but I think it worthwhile to post it here as well.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02262007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/not_that_simple_opedcolumnists_roy_w__spencer.htm

The science simply does not support the concept that man has any control over the climate. Al Gore is far from reality when he preaches our responsibility to curb global warming. How? We'd better be strong enough to control the sun, the moon, the ocean currents and the weather first. Please read this article. It says it all and the source is certainly unimpeachable. This is something I certainly cannot say about Mr. Gore.


Fletch..
BHL is confused - global warming will be experienced after appearing before God (though not by everyone).

GW and Golf
It is March. I am supposed to be golfing on the weekends, but it's going to snow. You darn libs promised me some global warming. Where is it? Give me my global warming. God knows my golf game needs it. Maybe we need to switch to gas guzzling golf carts instead of these electric ones. We might be able to speed up the process a little. Either way, this global warming sure is undependable.

Article
Brown wants a 'new world order'

"Chancellor Gordon Brown has spoken of the need for a "new world order" to deal with future security and environmental challenges.

That meant strengthening Britain's global alliances but also reforming institutions such as the EU and UN."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6277747.stm

My understanding is that this man will likely be Blair's successor.


Lynne
I heard Roy Spencer interviewed a few weeks ago and I was really pleased to find this recent article from him. It does a much better job of documenting those things we simply do not know and that have not been factored into the models created by proponents of Global Warming than I would be able to do. I am simply amazed by the number of people willing to accept a result because it came from a computer. The computer result is only as good as the programmer and the model. During his interview Mr. Spencer identified many other variables that are not factored into the models because we simply don't know enough of their effect on climate. Yet Mr. Spencer was certainly convinced that they have some impact. Volcanic action, earth shifts, gravity, ocean currents, water temperature, land temperature, denseness of the forests, the deserts, measurement points, humidity, clouds, proximity to the sun, solar activity, natural shifts in the earth's axis, etc. I'm sure I have forgotten many. These all have an impact on climate. So, who among us (Al Gore?) is smart enought to develop a model that might accurately predict these things with data that only exists from their measurement points of how many years? Thousands? I don't think so. 100? Maybe 140? I don't know how much data is involved but what we have is not sufficient in my mind. If we cannot predict volcanic eruptions, hurricanes, earthquakes or other acts of nature on any reasoned basis, how on earth can we predict the weather? All these have an impact on the latter. Meteorologists can only give a reasoned guess as to tomorrow's high temperature. How can we predict the temperature into the next century? Only by linear programming which simply does not take into account the climactic patterns of the earth and is immediately rendered irrelevant as soon as one variable might change. Bottom line, man can't influence anything but we can do our best to be good stewards of the land and keep our water and our air as clean as realistically possible.

Wanted: Braver Critical Thinkers
A fine response to the Phd, who, as someone pointed out, can probably afford the trickle-down costs that eventually filter down to the poorer folks as higher taxes and price hikes.

Our politicians have stupidly fallen under the voodoo hysteria over AGW. California is particulary inane in buying into the scare-mongering. Barbara Boxer's minions recently sent me an email asking me to sign a "thank you" card to be presented to one Mr. Al Gore this week. It's a shame that there aren't cards that can offer up to the recipient a good kick in the pants instead...or a magical, permanent dose of common sense and guilt over having spawned this dogmatic ideology. When I think of all the tangible, everyday problems our politicians could be spending time on (what we pay them for) rather than on thank you notes to the Goracle I want to take out an ad in opposition.

The more I hear the holy-rolling AGW believers scream "it's all over, it's settled" or "It's a concensus", I can be sure they are not so sure as they make themselves out to be. They're threatened. And I ask why.

And BHL: Invoke God's name as much as you please but if one doesn't believe in God, a god, whatever, then there's not much argument in your argument. God may be providing for you but I provide for myself, with a lot of help from my gracious family and none from the government.

Finally, one thing I'd like to point out to those of use who are skeptical about AGW is that sometimes I find that people seem to think that being critical of the alarmism means that we don't care at all about pollution, animal life etc. I try to point out that we are talking about 2 separate issues. I care about the earth and have 5 different recyling cans, commute as little as possible (oh if only I could drive less!), don't litter, reuse everything that can be reused and love the outdoors. I even lament the housing boom that has exploded in this valley, marring my beautiful mountain views and taking "my" trees.

We have good regulations in place already. They're working. There sensible uses of technology are good for cleaning our air, water and land, but the way things have gone lately with this carbon footprint crap and such has proved to me that much of this hype over AGW is politically motivated and I'll continue to be wary of the mania and calling for rationality, pragmatism, and a hell of a lot of calm.


GW
Does anyone remember Presidential candidate Estes Kefauver saying that as a result of nuclear weapons
explosions, the axis of the earth had shifted slightly? Is it possible that global warming is the end result? It is reasonable to say that the change would occur over a period of decades, not overnight.
How can we make a correction?

Delcy
We sure can.

I propose getting the GW proponents to calculate how "off" the axis is. Then, suggest where we can put the counterweight to tilt it back. Then, we gather up all of the liberals, crush them into one solid mass, freeze dry them, pack them in solid C02, and use them as a counterweight! We kill two birds with one stone. Get rid of libs, correct the earth's tilt.

Whatta ya think?

GunnyG
The very thought of it brings tears of joy to my eyes. I and (let me speak on their behalf) Earth Firsters want to give you a heartfelt thanks for your proposed solution to save us from GW.

May I humbly suggest a lottery drawing to award the winner the highest priviledge of pressing the "squash" button. Once hit, it will begin the liberal compacting/recycling process. The container for the liberal debree should be called the "giant melting pot" for obvious ironic reasons.

Lets join hands as we sing "We are the World" and watch liberals turn into fertilizer. Please remember to bring something for the potluck immediately following. I will gladly donate the jello salad myself. Oh, here come the tears of joy again!

Gotta go. Hanky is in the other room. So sorry.




Delcry
Here's hoping the nukes we WILL have to use on Iran will tilt the earth back. I am sure, if you follow the money trail(Al Gore:movie,tour,carbon offset company- he has gotten rich already, even some presidential candidate support, with possible matching funds, and Nobel Prize possibilities) you will find who is really behind all this. And another thing, sun spot activity has a big influence, and the sun is more active right now than it has been in something like 1000 or 1500 years. I can hardly hear Rush on AM radio.
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