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Monday, June 04, 2007
La Shawn Barber :: Townhall.com Columnist
Death to Child Rapists
by La Shawn Barber
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On the morning of March 2, 1998, a loser named Patrick Kennedy brutally raped his wife’s eight-year-old daughter.

Afterward, Kennedy called 911 and told the dispatcher that two black boys had raped the girl in the yard. Likely under threat by the rapist, she confirmed Kennedy’s story.

The child’s injuries were extensive. According to the opinion, the victim’s “predominate injury was vaginal with profuse bleeding. Her entire perineum was torn and her rectum protruded into her vagina.” Dr. Scott Benton, who testified at the trial, said the girl’s injuries “were the most serious he had seen, within his four years of practice, that resulted from a sexual assault.”

Police suspected Kennedy was lying from the beginning. Their suspicions were confirmed after learning that he’d called his employer before calling 911, said he wouldn’t be able to come to work, and asked how to get blood out of white carpet. His wife’s daughter had “just become a young lady,” he reportedly said.

Kennedy was found guilty of aggravated rape and sentenced to death. He asked for a new trial on the grounds that a death sentence for rape in which the victim survives was unconstitutional, but the motion was denied. Kennedy appealed to the Louisiana Supreme Court.

Last month, the court upheld Kennedy’s death sentence. Download the 128-page opinion and appendix in PDF, State of Louisiana v. Patrick Kennedy.

Before 1977, aggravated rape was punishable by death in Louisiana. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1977 that capital punishment for raping an adult woman was cruel and unusual. In 1995, Louisiana brought back the death penalty for rape but limited it to the rape of a child under 12.

Allowing prosecutors to seek the death penalty for child rapists seems to be gaining ground. At least four other states – Georgia, Montana, Oklahoma, and South Carolina – have added the death option to their versions of “Jessica’s Law,” named for Jessica Lunsford, a nine-year-old child raped and buried alive in Florida by a man with prior sex crime convictions.

Under the Florida law, a defendant faces a mandatory minimum sentence of 25 years in prison and lifetime electronic monitoring for “lewd or lascivious acts” committed against a child under 12. Committing sexual battery or raping a child under 12 is a capital offense in that state. If convicted, a pedophile faces only two possibilities: death or life in prison with no chance of parole. The governor of Texas has promised to sign a similar bill with a death penalty option into law.

Will sentencing child rapists to death deter future child rapes? Of course not, but deterrence isn’t the only reason to mete out the death penalty.

The concept of retributive justice underpins our nation’s criminal laws. In our pampered, politically correct, psycho-babbling society, we’ve forgotten that criminals must be punished – not merely removed from society or rehabilitated – and punishing criminals is just, whether or not punishment deters future crimes.

Our government is charged with protecting citizens and punishing lawbreakers, and perverts who hurt the most vulnerable citizens should receive harsh punishment. Man’s idea of harsh punishment, however, pales in comparison to God’s. One day each of us will face the ultimate Judge. I hope Kennedy and other child rapists suffer for all eternity in the deepest bowels of hell.

But then again, I harbor a politically incorrect bias against child rapists.

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About The Author
Freelance writer La Shawn Barber blogs at the American Civil Rights Institute blog.
Exactly Right! Excellent article!
Could not have stated it better.

One Problem...
Giving the death penalty to a child rapist will give a child rapist an incentive to go one step further: murder. First, a child rapist will have nothing to lose since he will get the death penalty with or without murder, and second, a dead child cannot testify against the rapist, ironically PROTECTING him from the death penalty.

Life without parole is enough. Reserve the death penalty for murders only.

Kennedy is the real victim here.
We need to remember that people only commit crimes because society has let them down. Most child rapist, if not all, were neglected or rejected by their peers. They in turn act out their rejection by attacking children. So though they are technically considered "criminals", sex offenders are really victims themselves. Just as you would not punish the child that was raped, you should not punish the rapist.

As for the ridiculous Kennedy verdict, the death penalty is never justified. In such cases, even incarceration is rarely appropriate. Instead, rehabilitation should be utilized whenever possible. If your car has engine trouble, you do not lock it in the garage for twenty years; you take it to get repaired. Child rapists should be afforded at least the same
courtesy you would give an automobile.

It is truly a shame how Kennedy is being mistreated. And please bring a candle with you when we hold our protest vigil on his behalf.

RE: Loyal Democrat
I sure get did real misty eyed and tearful when I read the comment by Loyal Democrat. Yep, poor old Kennedy is the victim here not that helpless little 8 year old who was brutalized. Course that line of reasoning only works when the victim is not related to you. Bet ya that if the victim, and by that I mean the little girl who was raped, had been the daughter or sister or niece of Loyal Democrat well then he'd be yelling for blood. If you rape a child you should die for your crime. period.

Two objections
1.) Ten times as worthy of it, huh? Sounds like hyperbole to me. There is a little bit of that in religion, you know.

2.) I believe the author spoke of the death penalty as an "option," not as mandatory.

BTW: If your kissing molester had killed the kid after, would that deserve the death penalty?

I live just
outside of Homosassa, Florida where our Jessie died at the hands of a maggot named John Couey. I do not know how he will die, but the cops should just cut him loose to hitch hike down County Road 491. He wouldnt make it past the store. That is Justice.

"Why have you brought this scum here?"
I grew up in a Mob neighbourhood (didn't realize it until I was a teenager) and among other benefits -- like nobody ever coming into the neighbourhood to cause trouble -- we had a 'tame judge'. Since Daddy was and remains a big fan of retributive justice, we would hear about the times when someone who fit the definition would be brought before Justice, er, Jones and he would ask, "Why have you brought this scum before me? Don't bother me with these people. Take him away and give me a report." This was not usually a death sentence (although accidents do happen) but was always a prelude to someone learning a valuable lesson which he had plenty of time in the hospital to contemplate.

Mob Justice may seem like an oxymoron, but in some cases it has its uses.

One small step for man...
One giant leap for mankind.

Awesome article; I had no idea that child rapists were getting the death penalty. If I'm ever looking to move, {Louisiana, Georgia, Montana, Oklahoma, and South Carolina} will be the first states on my list.

For the posters: One, if you say the death penalty is an incentive to murder the witness - a life behind bars is also an incentive to murder the witness. Whatever mystical theoretical value there is on the difference in incentives is no reason to spare people who deserve to die.

Two, a less brutal attack would have been less likely to earn a death penalty from the judge and jury. Not that I myself wouldn't hang a less brutal attacker, of course.


Deterrent
The child rapist who is executed for his crime will never do it again and that is the ultimate deterrent.

Child Rapists
I support this article completely. Newspeople spend so much time talking about "vengence is wrong" they forget that there is a matter called protecting the innocent. There is no cure for child rapists. Given the opportunity, all repeat. The only complete safety for children from a known child rapist is the death penalty. Bill D.

Loyal Democrat
You don't really believe that, do you? What if it was your child who was the victim? Do you even have children? People commit violent crimes, such as rape of a child, because they are evil, not because they are victims. In a civilized society, you don't sexually violate children or anyone else. You either control your urges, or have society do it for you. I say give him a double-dose of the eternal cocktail.

Loyal Democrat is a master at sarcasm
For those who have not read LD's work, LD is really not a democrat. It is the lame democratic response to the article written. Very well stated LD, as usual.

Child Rapist
I do support the death penalty for rapist! We all know from past cases that child rapist cannot be rehabilitated, call it a sickness if you will, I call it just pure evil and madness. Why waste the tax payers money feeding and housing these sickos?

There is one thing for sure I know "a dead child rapist will NOT do it again!" and will certainly give other pedophiles something to think about before carrying out their actions against children!

So be it!

Kennedy is a creep
This guy is a full-blown scumbag. If it had been my daughter, he'd already be dead. Same with that Couey low-life in Florida.

I Like your idea La Shawn. Hear, Hear!!!

I have read stats
that say that by the time a child molester is caught, he has abused 250 kids with his abuse escalating each time until he kills.

Anyone who has a predilection toward children is too sick to live, they are not redeemable and need to be removed from society permanantly and with extreme prejudice.

The other men in my family and I will not call 911 if God forbid one of my grandchildren is ever touched. There will be no liberal judge excusing the animal, period.




Good old La
Remember when the father from Louisiana, whose young son was raped, waited in the airport as authorities transported the rapist through the lobby? He put one in the SOB's head. Louisiana didn't prosecute, if I remember correctly. Vive le acadienne!

Yep, if that had been my daughter, I'd want them to turn him loose.

Cold-bloodedly, amperro has it right
--
"Giving the death penalty to a child rapist will give a child rapist an incentive to go one step further: murder."
--

There's a saying about death-penalty offenses: "After the first one, the rest are free."

The rapist (whether the victim is a child or an adult) tends to be a person without consideration for the essential humanity of the person he violates.

Pardon the Feminazi rhetoric, but he "objectifies" the object of his actions, either projecting participatory intention upon the victim ("She wanted me to do it to her!") or simply not *caring* whether or not the victim had any right to a property in his/her own body.

There is damn-all mental and moral distance from that view of the victim - as a weak and susceptible object for the fulfillment of his sexual appetites - and the next step:

"Dead [people] tell no tales."

The author of this column (and most of the brain-dead commentary following same) are locked into the vicarious emotional catharsis that comes with the "Kill 'em all, and let God sort 'em out!" attitude that gives your enemies excellent reason to fight you to the death.

Witness the effect of the Malmedy massacre (17 December 1944) on the subsequent behavior of Ameican troops during the Battle of the Bulge.

All of a sudden, no matter how desperate their situation, even rear-echelon American soldiers overrun by German attacks stopped surrendering, and fought with increasing hatred and last-ditch intensity.

And enemy prisoner lists suddenly got vanishingly short.

Take a lesson from reality, you damned fools.
--


Chopper
I have a 16 year daughter still at home and one who is on her own. IF some scumbag ever touched my child that way, I promise you, by all thats holy, I would save the state some money! Those scum ( notice I didn't say victim) don't deserve space on earth let alone in society.

LD
You are beautiful man! To borrow a line from largecaliber, I too am not worthy.

AudiR10: I am glad to know there are at least two of us. I look forward to your posts daily
Paradigm

Too close to home, DEATH
As an adult that is related to someone raped at the age nine. I'm all in favor of this law down in Louisiana, and elsewhere. Maybe not make it mandatory, but an option, instead of being dependant upon us for the rest of their lives. I'll pay for the executioner.

Loyal Dem. - Are you hiding something that we all ought to know? Why are you so against this common sense penalty?

TOO MANY are "getting away with "slapped wrists" and NO punishment in this life.

I do support the death penalty for rapist! We all know from past cases that child rapist cannot be rehabilitated, call it a sickness if you will, I call it just pure evil and madness. Why waste the tax payers money feeding and housing these sickos?

"There is one thing for sure I know "a dead" child rapist will NOT do it again!" and will certainly give other pedophiles something to think about before carrying out their actions against children!" ~ Redvelvet

I had to smile at this one:
"Good old La. Remember when the father from Louisiana, whose young son was raped, waited in the airport as authorities transported the rapist through the lobby? He put one in the SOB's head. Louisiana didn't prosecute, if I remember correctly. Vive le acadienne!

Yep, if that had been my daughter, I'd want them to turn him loose." ~ Chopper John

So all I have to pay for then, are the bullets?

The Facts
The death penalty does not provide specific deterrence for the offender; instead it is a form of incapacitation. The evidence regarding general deterrence suggests that the death penalty is no more effective at preventing others from killing than life imprisonment.

It costs a great deal more (about 2.5 times) to seek and impose a death sentence than to incarcerate an offender for life. This is money that could have been spent on effective crime control policies.

The U.S. is the only Western industrialized nation to continue to use the death penalty. Most countries have abolished or have a moratorium on the use of capital punishment.

Public support for the death penalty is on the decline.

Race of the victim is a factor in who gets a death sentence; if the victim is white, the probability of receiving a death sentence increases.

What would Jesus do in this case? Most of the major religious groups in this country have statements opposing the death penalty.

The above information probably does not matter to many because the death penalty is an emotional issue. Others use the death penalty to pander to the ignorance of the public for personal gain, such as election to public office. Many respondents to this column seem interested in revenge, not justice or retribution.



Death fo0r child rapist
The rapiost is not the victimn and in our society it matters not what his parents or his school dtc. influence was, as any child grows up they learn right from wrong and people like loyal Democrat is the one who gives them permission to commit these horrible acts. Yes he will pay the ultimate price from the judge on high but that doesn't change what this little girl has to live with and thte mother is as guilty as he for bringing some piece of low life trash into her home and giving him acess to her daughter. Too often we forget the responsible of the mother. So she is single and without sex in her life, is that worth what happened to her daughter. She is probably single because she has no competent judgement of men in fact. When you become a single mother by choice or not your choice it is then your responsiblility to be bothe motheer and father. I am so disgusted with those who make the prepatrator the victimn instead of the one the crime was inflicted upon that I think they are even more cruel, more inhumane and stupid than the criminal. Your lack of respect or careing about the victimn makes me wonder just what kind of whacko you are?

Patrick Kennedy
Should have the buisness end of a baseball bat stuffed up his bung, so that his rectum protrude's into his gonaad's... Then his gonaad's should be whacked off with a buck knife.. I would call that Justice... By the way, this Patrick Kennedy guy, does he have any relative's in Massachusetts ?

Better make sure...
that the suspect is REALLY REALLY guilty, I guess! I personally know four people who have been falsely accused of child rape or molestation...and one was convicted and did hard time before his ex-wife confessed she cooked the whole story up and coached the child to lie. Another took a plea deal under pressure and went to prison. His daughter told me years later that he never did anything to her or her sister, and her mother had sent three different men to jail on the same false charges when they angered her.

Child molestation and sexual battery is the most damaging and heinous charge that can be made. We consider it worse than murder in many cases...and vengeful, vindictaive people know it. They also know that virtually no proof other than the child's word is needed for a conviction with most juries, even though the testimony is easily tainted.

One of my best friends in Georgia was seized by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI) and thrown in jail in Savannah, then moved several times. He was denied access to an attorney and his family couldn't find him. All because the ex-husband of his wife was bitter, and get their 13 year old daughter to lie. My friend was finally released on bond, and then promptly re-arrested for no apparant reason. GBI agents told him in interrogation they would have him raped and murdered in jail by other inmates.

Finally, the actual hearing came, and the girl's story fell apart on the stand when she couldn't keep her dates and events straight. The judge turned to my friend and apologized that this had ever happened, and then dismissed the charges. My friend had to be restrained from attacking and choking the GBI agant who interrogated and threatened him when they left the court.

These get tough laws always sound good in theory, but I have found it better to be sure you have the right person from the start. an innocent dead prisoner would not be a just outcome from this proposition, and far too many people get charged and convicted under the flimsiest evidance already.

celtic
i totally agree which is why i dont like sex offender registries either

Amen
The abuse of a child is an affront to God and Nature alike for children are our future. To deny those who abuse the future of mankind a future of their own is perfect justice.

God said that it would be better for anyone who even so much as misled the little ones with false teachings to have a millstone tied to his neck and be thrown into the sea. How much more so for the ultimate violation of a child's innocence?

And if it were one of my kids I would, like many others, be completely willing to save the government the trouble.

Proud of him
"Remember when the father from Louisiana, whose young son was raped, waited in the airport as authorities transported the rapist through the lobby? He put one in the SOB's head.

Yes! I'm proud of that father who assasinated that guy. I would have done the same and I don't care if I went to jail for it.

By the way! Why is that M.F. Scumbag Couey still alive?
Why must we tax payers continue to pay for his food, medical care and shelter.

Kill that bast'd the same way he tortured that beautiful little girl. Video tape it and broadcast it nationaly as a warning to all the other stacks of pig s**t who go around harming and murdering little children.

The problem with death penalty
is this guy Kennedy will have his own cell for the rest of his life, which could be quite long with the appeals process.

Don't get me wrong. I think the guy needs to hang from an oak tree myself, the sooner the better.

This guy is more likely to die of old age in his first class cell. I think it would be much better for him to be allowed into the GP and leave his fellow inmates in charge of his justice.

DEATH TO CHILD RAPISTS

Ms. Barber said that the death sentence for a child rapist will not prevent future child rapes (or word to that effect). I agree.

However, sentencing a convicted child rapist to death will in no uncertain terms prevent that particular child rapist from raping another child. Ever.

In addition, perhaps he will get a dose of his own medicine before he begs for a rapid carrying out of his own death penalty. One can only hope.

For TeamNRA
Here's a simpler suggestion.

We take him to a veterinary hospital, along with one of the jail's "enfocer goons", then ask the enforcer goon to use a bull-gelder on him--WITH NO anaesthetic! Crude, but effective and deterrent to other potential child-rapists.

We can still give Mr. Kennedy a choice on this--whether he wants to ask the goon to bash his head in!

Sex offender registry?
Ha! In my book, there are only two places for pederasses: Prison and the cemetery.

Can I get an amen?

Non-death-penalty solution:
(not that I'm opposed to the DP in any way) Castration & then the normal sentence for the crime. `Nuff said.

SJ_Doc & Amperro
Have you ever truly paid any attention to child rape cases? I have, my whole life. When you've been involved one way or another in something vicious like that, you pay attention.

These predators have KILLED ANYWAY, regardless of the sentence that lay before them. I find it extremely rare to find any child released ALIVE that had been kidnapped and rapped. I have seen maybe a handful were left alive out of the thousands upon thousands that were murdered.

It's not the law of a dealth penalty that drove them to murder---it's the fact that they're sick animals with no control over themselves.

So, either laws need to be in place for a no tolerance, and no plea bargaining for lesser sentencing--meaning that life with no parole truly means life with no parole.

Our streets are polluted with repeat offenders getting off easy and slicking through every loophole to be released early.

Or simply, just make a mandatory death sentence, which of course, I am all for. A dead predator cannot manipulate our courts to be released so that they may rape and kill other children.

So when you call the general consensus on this commentary damn fools for wanting child predators dead, I think you need to take a step back and think who is being truly foolish.

Interesting arguments
On the one hand, SJ Doc informs us that capital punishment for child-rapists "gives your enemies excellent reason to fight you to the death."

But on the other hand, Boiseriver informs us "The evidence regarding general deterrence suggests that the death penalty is no more effective at preventing others from killing than life imprisonment."

In other words, these scum fear life imprisonment just as much as the chair. So NEITHER life nor the death penalty is the answer. So what is?

Well, celtic dragon (who apparently has some interesting friends, as s/he knows four more "wrongfully accused" kid-rapers than I do) reminds us that "far too many people get charged and convicted under the flimsiest evidance already." Indeed. You can't undo a death sentence. OTOH, you can't give a person back a single day that they serve behind bars. If we are to limit punishments only to those which can be truly rescinded, we'll only have FINES for everything!

Finally, boiseriver asks us, "What would Jesus do in this case?" Leftists invariably raise this point in capital punishment arguments. The quick answer is "Why do you care, you don't when the subject is abortion." The somewhat longer answer is "I am fully capable of arguing the point without reference to religion, as you wish, so please do the same." The full answer, provided as a courtesy to those for whom it truly matters, is: "For Jesus' view on child molesters, see Luke 17:2; for capital punishment, see Luke 19:27."

Good for my neighbors
I hope Texas quickly follows their lead.

La Shawn Barber
I harbor the same politically incorrect thoughts. A can of gas and a match would in the town square would be quite the deterrent. No mercy for sickos.

celtic dragon
I gotta ask what did your friends do to get themselves in the position of being accused in the first place? If they are so innocent? Rarely are the innocent truly innocent. Wow...you have some strange friends.

Death Penalty
The death penalty is not about deterrence. It's about justice.

boiseriver
I guess you missed the draconian laws of the ME and Eastern Europe.

two problems, and no problem
As a forensic photographer, very familiar with crime, I have NO problem with a life sentence for the rape of a child. Nor the death penalty for the aggravated injury or death of a child.
Just because medical intervention saved the child's life, shouldn't negate the intent of the rapist, nor ignore the lifelong injury and scarring to the child.

My two problems is with the initial call to the police on who raped the little girl.

"Two black suspects." In Louisiana, a state that still carries a great deal of racial prejudice, this is a highly dangerous thing to do.
Or in the case of boys getting raped, the lookout for gay men would have been just as dangerous for reasons of anti gay animus.

Black men have been falsely accused, so have gay men-and often innocent men of both backgrounds have either been lynched, or served long sentences before their innocence was determined, if it ever was.
These are the two groups that tend to be guilty, until proven innocent because of prejudice.

DNA technology and it's advancement is the gold standard for the incarceration of the right perpetrator.
And due process of law, and only due process of law, can make such determinations.
Prejudice will be dangerous and tempt vigilantism and this cannot be allowed.

This is also why sex offenders, should NEVER, EVER be paroled. This also tempts vigilatism.
The killers that prompted Megan's Law and now Jessica's law, had been convicted child rapists.
And their crimes escalated. Another risk factor that is unnacceptable.
And paroled sex offenders end up in unsuspecting neighborhoods anyway. And often fall off the radar of the authorities who are supposed to monitor them.
Lifelong incarceration is the only thing that will render Megan's and Jessica and Polly's law, unnecessary and neighborhoods safe.

I know a young man on death row now in W. Memphis, named Damian Eccols.
For the murder of three eight year old boys in his area.
He is very obviously innocent. At least to people more sophisticated then the lame brains in his small town.
And the guilt of the step father of one of the victims, looked patently obvious too.
There was some corruption on the part of the local sheriff, as well as a lack of evidence strongly linking this young man, and two of his friends directly to the crime. There was a horrible rush to judgement and intimidation of the other two involved, who were minors.

There are two documentaries about their cases, five years apart called "Paradise Lost". I recommend you watch them.

It is an indictment of small town minds, prejudice and local law enforcement corruption.
It's rare that I take the side of the accused this way.

But I live in Los Angeles, and sometimes guilt can be as obvious as innocence.
However, it takes smart people to properly disseminate information, and properly committed people to enforce the law to it's full extent of protecting the innocent and incarcerating the guilty.

I see there are some people who have known someone falsely accused.
I also remember a case here in CA, in the Stanton area, where a man accused of raping his girlfriend's little girls got off, because the children couldn't get dates and times precisely right.
But children can't do that. The evidence was in what that man did to them and how and with what he did it. And THAT was something a child wouldn't know about or make up.

So he was acquitted. Only to come back to the same area where these girls lived, spots a five year old playing with a friend in the complex, takes her away and rapes and kills her.

THIS time, he's done dead to rights.
But a very beautiful little girl paid the price. Later on when the jurors from the first trial were interviewed, they really were dumb as rocks.
I think that the lives of people should be placed in smarter hands, with better brains to analyze the evidence and circumstances.
We can't leave such things to the prejudiced, those who lack critical thinking skills or the inability to know more about the subject at hand.

Lawyers play to many games. And when it's NOT a game, you get such cases as the guilty going free and the innocent suffering.


the minds of public defenders
I wonder how it feels to be Couey's defense lawyer.
God himself couldn't defend this guy in court, so a mere mortal set to the task would be an interesting specimen.

Sure, Couey is lucky he has that guy between him and a deserved execution.
It's always interesting to see how someone could convince a court why a killer like Couey should have his life be spared.

What Celtic Dragon is referring to
is the fact that current domestic/family laws are such that a woman can get a man out of her life and that of the kids with a simple phone call and an accusation.

No, it didn't happen to me personally, but having been through the divorce/custody process I know for a fact that it does happen, and I could very easily been a victim of it had she acted first.

du
I have to totally agree with your post. We must ensure that the law and justice are applied equally. I AM real sick and tired of the discrimination involved all the way around. Whether it is the people accused or the accused themselves. Remember that idiot Susan Smith who killed her kids and blamed it on a black man? Fed up with this junk! Thankyou for all you do in law enforcement because that is not an easy job or a job for the weak.

chr335
"i totally agree which is why i dont like sex offender registries either"

I have 3 children under 18. The recidivism and lasting effects of sexual assault are too high to take risks with them. I am generally opposed to things like this but it is a reasonable protection of society against someone who has committed a crime.

boiseriver
Re; Your "Facts"
I have no problem with abolishing the death penalty, (under certain conditions). But I questions the true motives of those who suggest abolishment. Are the motives for practical issues such as the additional expense? Or that it doesn’t deter the crimes it’s intended for? Or is the true agenda the Lib reasoning: “It’s cruel & unusual punishment”? To test which are the true motives, I propose you consider a “non lethal” punishment once used by the French: The Oubliette. It consisted of being Permanently sealed in a dark underground box approximately 5 x 4 x 3 ft. It had a hole in the floor for a toilet, and a slot through which food and water was placed; Nothing more. This punishment was reserved for those convicted of the most horrific crimes; the death penalty being too lenient. The French understood Real punishment. There was NO appeal. NO visitors. The Oubliette gave real meaning to “lock em up and throw away the key”; except, there was no key. Those condemned to the Oubliette could live for years, though none remained sane for very long. The box became your coffin when you eventually died.

So I wonder if those advocating death penalty abolishment do so for practical reasons, or are they motivated by the Lib agenda of “cruel and unusual punishment”? If their reasons are based on “practicality”, would they consider the EXTREME harshness of “REAL CONFINMENT”? I would. But then Im an EXTREMELY NOT NICE GUY.
Unfortunately we live in a “Too Politically Correct Society” to consider such harsh and possibly Real deterrents.

Justice should be short and swift
In my opinion, I would not like to see the man who raped this child set free, this would be injustice to the final degree. No penalty paid and he is out to do it again.

Nor would I like to see him imprisoned for the remainder of his natural life. That too is a cruel way to live. Threats and frequent beatings by fellow inmates is not to be looked forward to and enjoyed.

This man should be given a short time to make his peace with the Lord and then sent to a quick and final reward. Humanely, but irreversable.he or she can never repeat this type crime and the society will be pleased with another savage personality removed from threatening other, or worse yet being allowed to do it again. Do not set them free and assure the public that this will not happen again. At least from this purpatrator. It is done and over with. May the Lord decide the fate of this person. He will do exactly what is right... (Do I understand the rage of the parents and the child victim?) I would like to believe that I do, but I have not been there, so I cannot judge how they, or I, would feel in those circumstances. I can only pray and hope that somewhere in time, their will be justice and healing...God bless the child victim and may she find peace in her lifetime.

There is closure in this swift action, and the healing can begin at last. Especially for the victim, for they need no longer fear that person will return and repeat that same time of terror.

How do we tell that Shell is not a dog?
Shell bloviates:

"Have you ever truly paid any attention to child rape cases? I have, my whole life. When you've been involved one way or another in something vicious like that, you pay attention."
--

So how often have *you* broken out a rape kit in the Emergency Department and examined a patient who'd been brought in by the police for a forensic evaluation, Shelly-baby? Or testified as an expert witness in such a case?

I don't know whatever might be biting your personal butt on the matter of what government should or should not do about violent rape (irrespective of the age of the victim in any given case), but obviously it's subjective.

Much heat, no light. Big surprise.

My interest, on the other hand, is professional. It needs to be. That much being given, I most assuredly do "...call the general consensus on this commentary damn fools for wanting child predators dead."

First, the proof of culpability in such cases is not as easy to establish as you and the rest of your stone-headed colleagues in schmuckery desire it to be, even with DNA evidence technology available.

The kinds of third- or fourth-degree perineal lacerations described in the case upon which this columnist is writing are rare, even in situations where a female victim is prepubescent. More commonly, you've got to undertake colposcopic evaluation to identify and photograph evidence of genital injury that unaided visual examination (even with staining techniques) can easily miss.

But what the hell would you know about such matters, anyway?

Of course, this means that you're screaming for the blood (and/or gonads) of people whose "guilt" has commonly been established only through the ubiquitous plea bargaining process by which more than nine-tenths of criminal cases are adjudicated, with enormous pressure exerted upon objectively unprosecutable individuals to give up and give in to lesser charges and lesser punishments by government lawyers who just want to chalk up another "win" on their records.

Second, if you believe the pshrinks, rapists - the violent ones for certain - are personality disorder cases at the very least, and damned dangerous people. As you yourself have observed, rape/kidnapping cases frequently end in the murder of the victim. Whether the reason is a matter for the psychiatrists or the moral philosophers to consider, that much is a robust conclusion.

So by demanding the death penalty for the rape of a victim who *survives*, just what sort of pressure are you determined to place on the real, hard-core offenders?

Equate "rape" with "premeditated murder," and you've deliberately set up the same kind of situation as you'd get by locking a kid into a room with a rabid wolf.

I don't want to see any more rape cases, Shelly, but I want even *less* to be calling in the county coroner on such cases.

Spume and sputter and claim to channel the Will of God all you damn' please - but you're obviously not the kind of guy who has to take responsbility for cleaning up the consequences of your emotional indulgences.

I am.
--

Lolo
Lolo writes: Monday, June, 04, 2007 12:40 PM
celtic dragon
I gotta ask what did your friends do to get themselves in the position of being accused in the first place? If they are so innocent? Rarely are the innocent truly innocent. Wow...you have some strange friends.


One is an actual friand. One is a relative of my spouse. One is the ex-husband of my spouse's childhood best friend. One is a friend of my sister and brother-in-law who worked for AOL in Jacksonville, Fl as a tech rep.

The fact that all of these were in the same small geapgraphic area of north Florida and south Georgia may give a hint of local attitudes and how law enforcement is less then thorough...or honest. Law enforcement in Brunswick, Ga (where much of this is) is incredibly corrupt and venal. My spouse was propositioned by two different officers, and threatened as well. One officer is serving time for rape, which he perpetrated on the job and in uniform. It is widely known that Brantly County law enforcement runs the drug trade and pays off GBI...and nobody does anything about it.

It doesn't surprise me that some people can get hammered with child abuse charges if they annoy somebody eose and they don't have "friends" or peyoffs to the right cops.

Sorry, but that's how things still work in much of the South.

I moved to North Carolina and a major city. We haven't seen those problems here.

When did we become infallible?
It still amazes me that people who claim they are pro-life when it comes to abortion can be so stridently supportive of the death penalty for criminals.

Vengeance or punishment should not have a place in a fallible legal system and the last time I checked we have not yet achieved infallibility. As long as our legal system provides even the remotest possibility of a guilty verdict for an innocent defendant we have no right whatsoever to impose the death penalty.

I agree that we have a responsibility to protect society and therefore I support life imprisonment without the possibility of parole for certain offenses.

Death must be immediate
There should be no sympathy for these people. I am sick of people saying that these criminals should be allowed to live. If you take a life you forfeit yours. Sometimes I wish they had public excecutions so that people could see the consequences of their actions.

Bev's thoughts
Second first: "Vengeance or punishment should not have a place in a fallible legal system and the last time I checked we have not yet achieved infallibility. As long as our legal system provides even the remotest possibility of a guilty verdict for an innocent defendant we have no right whatsoever to impose the death penalty."

I repeat: as long as we demand infallibility as a standard, THE ONLY PENALTY WHICH CAN BE FULLY RESTORED IS A FINE.

S/he continues, "It still amazes me that people who claim they are pro-life when it comes to abortion can be so stridently supportive of the death penalty for criminals."

In fact, I'd be willing to trade: no more death penalty, PERIOD, in return for no more abortions, PERIOD. Any left-wing takers?


Justice
For the perps who are proven to be guilty, the best punishment you could give them is general population in a max prison. It's a well known fact the murderers and other long timers hate anyone who molests a child as they may never be able to see their own and it may be their kids next.

Life without parole?
There are two inherent problems with life without parole. 1) they can always excape. Happens all the time. In the meantime till they are caught they could......... You guess what they could and will do.
2) there is always the possibility of some bleading heart judge overturning his conviction or granting clemency because he has been such a good and model prisoner. It is a fact! the perps of this nature are never rehabilitated even by chemical castration!!! Read up on it! NUFF SAID!

SJ Doc
I don't disagree, in general, with your stance. You have experience that I don't, you have an emotional investment that I don't. Here's my take on the death penalty; if there is a "smoking gun", ie., no doubt whatsoever, that a particular person committed the act, the trial should be expeditious, the appellate process even quicker, followed by the administration of the sentence the next damn day. No "smoking gun", I can live with life w/o parole.

As an aside, I consider hate a hateful word. I hate all the sorry baxtards, male or female, who hurt children. I also hate jane fonda and o.j. simpson (small caps intended). Problems with which I have to deal.

Loyal Democrat
When my car's engine quits, I have it towed to the junkyard where its put in a crusher and no longer resembles a car. When an adult viciously rapes a child he should expect no less.

Actually, I think the death penalty is too kind for child rapists. I'd give them life without parole, assign them a special bright pink uniform and put them to the general prison population. A lot of killers and armed robbers have kids too.

sjt18
I am generally opposed to things like this but it is a reasonable protection of society against someone who has committed a crime.

if it actually did anything i would be for it to but it does not really protect anyone from them as if they are going to do it again they will find a way and if they arent going to do it again they get driven out by the neighbors.

Bev
The reason that we pro-lifers can support the death penalty is because the aborted child is innocent while the convicted murderer/rapist is guilty and deserving of nothing less than death.

As for your infallibility arguement, no legal system in this world is infallible; does that mean we allow anarchy to reign? Punishment is necessary in a judicial system, otherwise people would just commit crimes over and over again, knowing that there would be no legal consequences for their actions.

I do agree that vengeance doesn't belong in a legal system. The desire for vengeance is an emotion that clouds your mind renders you unable to make an impartial decision. Sometimes, vengeance steers you in the right direction; other times, it does more harm than good.

perverts
child molesters and child rapists dont deserve a second they deserve to be killed slowly,and painfully as far as im concerned they can all die and go to h---,if amad dog tries to bite you, you kill it,same thing applies to people

Robert
The reason that we pro-lifers can support the death penalty is because the aborted child is innocent while the convicted murderer/rapist is guilty and deserving of nothing less than death.

is that for you to judge or God

Chopper John - ''emotional investment''?
--
"I don't disagree, in general, with your stance. You have experience that I don't, you have an emotional investment that I don't."
--

To the contrary, I've got a helluva lot *less* "emotional investment" in the issue at hand - violent rape - than do the greatest number of commentators in this forum.

The "Kill 'em all!" faction is the bunch in which you'll find no EEG activity above the level of the thalamus.

I'm talking chiefly about risk mitigation (i.e., don't give the child molestors motivation to "leave no eye open to weep") and the uncertainties of forensic evidence available in cases where rape has been alleged.

Only the brain-dead are so damned hot for certainties that they'll even smarm so glibly about "life w/o parole."

What's that saying? "A conservative is a 'Liberal' who's just been mugged," right?

Well, "A 'Liberal' is a conservative who's just been indicted."

Justice is the *LAST* item on the priority list for any prosecuting attorney. What he/she wants is an easy, high-publicity, career-enhancing win, and he doesn't care how thoroughly he/she has to reach into the realm of prosecutorial misconduct in order to get that win.

Migawd, think about it a little. These people are not only lawyers, but they're *government* lawyers.

I'm willing to bet that you (and the rest of the crowd that's screaming for punishment a la outrance) have never seen the machinery of the "criminal justice" system grinding through the lives of anyone - accused malefactor or putative victim - from close range.

And you people sure as hell haven't stood in the dock yourselves while the power of government - funded without limit by the helpless taxpayer - comes down upon you like an avalanche.

"Emotional investment" indeed!
--


Keep it up Loyal Democrat
I always get a few good laughs from Loyal Democrat's pithy comments. Keep up the satire!

Isn't if interesting
that the same people who would condem us for killing this guy are the people who usually support abortion?

Chr334
Yes as I said before that is for god to judge but if I do, I hope my Lord will forgive me and I pray my Lord is vengefull enough to damn that scum to hell!

boiseriver
The only reason the death penalty costs so much and has become such a farce is that we've let the lawyers abuse the system with endless appeals to judges who want to play God. Someone sentenced to death should get one trip through the legitimate appeals process. That means State Trial Court, State Appeals Court, State Supreme Court and if a Constitutional or Federal issue was legitimately raised, US Supreme Court(which has the jurisdiction for appeals from State Supreme Courts, not the politically appointed hacks who serve as US District Court judges).

SJ Doc
WOW! Yes, I can see you are not emotional. Indeed, it's apparent that this subject has no meaning to you. Did I throw a phrase at you that was a stumper? You see, Doc, I was actually trying to applaud you, because I believe you have a right to your opinion, and, also, because I think your opinion(s) have merit.

Let's see, because I approached the discussion from that direction, I'm "brain dead" because of my statement re life w/o parole. OK. Once again, I believe that the absolutely, without a question, guilty pieces of crap that commit the crime under discussion should pay with their lives. I believe, also, that those found guilty of the crime under discussion, who may POSSIBLY not be same, be sentenced to the maximum allowed. This is brain dead according to you.
They have to be sentenced to something, Doc. What's your suggestion?

I try very hard not to get personal in these discussions, but, I swear, you sound like you've been personally maltreated by the justice system.

By the way, I still hate Fonda and Simpson.

Chopper
I give a big agreement to fonda and simpson and I'd like to add Joan baiez or how ever her name is spelled.

Eye for an eye
Gandhi once said " an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." Under most circumstances I do believe this. But there should always be exceptions. Pedophiles are sub-human. They only waste my air. A convicted pedophile who has already appealed simply should be escorted to the back of the courthouse and shot in the head like a rabid animal. Sun Tzu wrote about the physiological part of warfare in The Art of War. Take the fight out of the enemy, this will ensure victory. Vlad the Impaler "Dracula" of Romania Practiced this against the Turks by lining his border with his enemies impaled on spears. Televise the executions for adults. Scare the pedophiles so much that they will never execute their sick fantasies. I know this is Genghis Khan style thinking but I would rather this than constantly fear for my children. I welcome responses but take it easy, I'm only human. Thank you.

PC

Loyal Democrat
You have got to have your head up your (insert Kennedy here). Maybe he should so you can have more sympathy for him. Nobody made Kennedy rape this child, and as a typical Lib you make excuses for the criminal. How galactically screwed in the head can you be? You guys are amazing

Bev...no luxury
Hi Bev...sorry, but our system doesn't have the luxury of indefinite incarceration for many reasons.

1. Criminals do not stop being dangerous because they are behind bars. Especially prison gangs, who arrange for other crimes to be committed by people on the outside.

2. It's too expensive, aging prisoners require medical care and up keep that there aren't enough funds for.

3. Space. Prisons are becoming less and less remote and away from city centers. The encroachment of subdivisions make the placement of more prisons, or prisons big enough, nearly impossible.

3. The death penalty isn't a matter of vengence. But one would have to also consider the victim's worth. Often the survivors are the tax payers who know their dollars are bein used for the continued life of a killer. The value flips to the prisoner left alive and eventually, humanitarian efforts are made to comfort the prisoner.
Survivors don't outlive those who took away their loved one. And THAT is a truly terrible inequity.
The murderers of James Byrd in Texas, were in part motivated by a love relationship started through a pen pal outreach. The ringleader tried to impress the 15 year old girl who wrote him through a program at her church.
He was already in prison before he even met Byrd.
The fact that correspondence was encouraged between this guy and a minor child is grossly irresponsible.

It's impossible to have contined incarcertation, and isolated enough to be effective.

4. The risk of escape. This has happened, much to often to justify indefinite incarceration. The only way to guarantee that multiple crimes won't happen from a single prisoner, is if they are dead.

I know it feels like it's wrong to take a life, and it won't solve anything exactly.
But it does solve other things for the aforementioned reasons.
Believe me, and this you are hearing from a first responder to all kinds of homicide and other depravity--we are better off when they are dead.

We really just don't have the luxury we'd like to have in preserving the lives of the dangerous.
Just how it is.


Chopper John - broaden your scope
--
Don't just "hate Fonda and Simpson;" learn to know and hate the whole damned civil government.

You've said about me that "[I] sound like [I]'ve been personally maltreated by the justice system."

Well, what doctor has not?

(1) The "justice system" is entirely the creature of government.

(2) All those who govern hate small businessmen (for reasons I'll be happy to elaborate if you require such).

(3) Physicians, as professionals, tend to be small businessmen, and more than any other kind of small businessman, their business is the application of independent thought in the form of acute observation and hard reasoning to critical aspects of the real world all around them.

(4) Therefore, government hates the hell out of physicians.

This last has in my lifetime been exacerbated by the fact that physicians provide extremely valuable services to their patients and to the populace at large, and those who aspire to govern see the control of such valuable services as a means whereby they can gain public office and aggrandize their power in civil society.

Tbey hate us medicos because we are not suitably subservient to their methods and their ends, because we know full and ghoddam well that a bureaucrat's fiat is *not* the way to remedy any patient's ills, and that when the political animal takes control of the finely discriminate assessments and decision-making involved in health care, he/she/it can do nothing but screw things up.

Those who aspire to omnipotence really get frustrated by the existence of people whose entire lives are proof that the politicians have got their heads wedged firmly up their cloacae.

Therefore government - very much including the "justice system" - is the unremitting enemy of doctors. This is one of the key reasons why doctors tend so strongly to be genuine (as opposed to religious) conservatives.

On the matter of sentencing for convicted sexual assailants (setting aside for the moment the consideration as to whether or not it is even possible to be "absolutely, without a question," sure of the accused malfeasant's guilt in the overwhelming majority of cases), consider what sentencing is supposed to accomplish.

Just as surgery is not undertaken simply for the pleasure of blunting scalpel blades and peeking at the anatomy, sentencing of any kind - to incarceration, to restitution, to death - is a radical intervention with risks to all concerned - and that most definitely includes the victims of sexual assault upon whose accusations the "justice system" operations are based in these cases.

Or have you forgotten the McMartin preschool trials (1983-1990) and the similar "Believe the children!" cases of bizarre pedosexual panic that so brilliantly illuminated the "justice system" all through the '80s and early '90s?

I repeat my earlier admonition that the goal of almost all criminal prosecution is *not* the meting out of justice, but rather "getting the win." With the collective wealth of all the private sector of society at their beck and call (through the robbery at gunpoint that we call "taxation"), the "justice system" can crush almost any but the very wealthiest individual, and this crushing - adducing to more and more cases resolved through forcing admissions of guilt by way of the plea bargaining process - is how the criminal prosecutors get the overwhelming majority of their convictions. They engage the defendant in a battle of attrition, wear him down, and destroy him.

Again, consider the McMartin preschool trials, where precisely *NO* convictions were attained, but every defendant was utterly ruined.

Sentencing in every such case must not only be undertaken to ensure that the ruination of each defendant - because that's precisely what you're calling for, whether you throw him into prison or he walks free - is of a value to society commensurate with the cost of this process, not only in dollar terms but in the damages it must inevitably inflict \upon the accused *AND* upon everyone else around him, including the victim of his sexual attentions.

And again and again we return to the cost a victim will almost invariably pay if a conviction for rape draws a sentence - death *OR* "life w/o parole" - indistinguishable from the sentence established for murder.
--

Fun times
You know, Doc, (can I call you Doc? That's what folks called my dad) the scope can be as broadened as you wish, but that really wasn't where I was going. Shoot, my first fight on TH and we're going to run out of time.

First, let's agree that ambulance-chasing malpractice lawyers (read J. Edwards) suck. Let's also agree that physicians have been taking it in the gluteus maximus for years. (My use of that term should indicate that you aren't dealing with a total idiot.) The subject at hand is not the terrorizing of medicos; it's punishment for rapists. Actually, not even supposed rapists, but the real thing. I think you don't mean to, but you are so angry at the justice system, you seem to think that, even though all lawyers have ulterior motives, no one can possibly be guilty if they, the lawyers say so.

My comments regarding punishment for rapists, regardless of victim age, reflect my feelings about the subject. I'm truly sorry for your legal experiences. I consider those in the medical field as unbelievable practicioners of a miracle art. My father was one of the old type, he made house calls, and got paid with poultry and vegetables frequently. So, while you're starting to pizz me off, I respect the hell out of you.

Loyal Democrap, you're right so let's
use your kids (or yourself, if you have none) as part of the rehabilitation process. When "Mr." Kennedy feels the urge, let's offer up one of your little girls or boys. That will keep the rest of the kids safe.

Seems like a workable program to me. That way, we can accomodate the real "victim" here, i.e., "Mr." Kennedy and the young girl with the torn perinieum, lost virginity, lost innocence and ruined life be damned.

Your one sick mf.

POLcat
I think if you read the post by so called “Loyal Democrat” carefully, you’ll realize he must be joking. The last section gives it away, where-in he states:
“It is truly a shame how Kennedy is being mistreated. And please bring a candle with you when we hold our protest vigil on his behalf.”

This is obviously a joke. No Lib, even the ones with the IQ of a Dead Tree Stump, (and there are plenty of those), would say something this STUPID.

But hey "loyal Democrat"; you had a few of those here going for a minute. Interesting "Put On"

Damnit, Chopper John...
...you don't have to pay me any respect just because I'm in the same racket your father had been. Medicine is a great profession for people who like solving problems, and when it's not just a matter of playing musical exam rooms, it beats the hell out of a life spent in Dilbert-style fabric boxes.

Though more and more nowadays we're having to get our jobs done in spite of the stupidity, cupidity, and rapacity of "Mangled Care" and its welter of Pointy-Haired Bosses.

You don't have to feel "...truly sorry for [whatever you conceive to have been my] legal experiences."

Consider, if you can, that my conclusions about the "justice system" are less the result of immediate (i.e., personal) attacks made upon me by the current clones of Inspector Javert than they are simply the fruits of a professional career spent in the practice of medicine in these United States.

When a "justice system" attacks and ruins a colleague who has pulled more than one of your patients out from under some damned bad situations for no reason other than to make a spectacular "win" against the employment of anabolic steroids at a time when the use of this category of drugs was *NOT* violative of either statute law or standard of care, you start looking sharply at *every* action undertaken by those predatory specimens of the District Attorney's office with their beaks jammed so swillingly into the public trough.

And observing acutely, you tend to see a whole helluva lot more that confirms these and even more egregious malfeasances to be their usual and customary malpractices.

They didn't have to attack me personally to earn the well-justified loathing in which I hold them.

But setting that aside for the moment, bear in mind that in all criminal cases the accused and the convicted - as well as their families - need medical care as much as anyone else, and I've had to come to grips with the fact that it's not just the direct victims of criminal offenses who suffer from those acts.

Your dad could doubtless have told you that most of us in the doctorin' business tend very strongly to think of each patient as an individual, with distinctive crotchets, complaints, and character flaws. We can't help seeing them except as persons, and it's damned hard for us to reduce anyone to the status of an object of which we can sanguinely speak as fit for nothing but summary execution or permanent incarceration.

That doesn't mean I forgive *or* forget what a flagrantly guilty individual had done in any case of criminal violation of the rights of other persons. It simply means that I will not treat another human being - especially one who has been reduced to effective physical incapacitation - as if he poses an imminent danger to the life and limb of anyone around him.

Retaliatory violent force - even lethal force - "in the heat" can be justified. The moral sanction of execution, however, is impossible, and when execution is institutionalized as a power of government, those who govern - by definition a coterie of self-selected pathological megalomaniacs - *will* abuse that power.

It's never a matter of "if." It's only a question as to when they'll try to get away with it, and how they'll pull it off. They can't help it any more than a dog can help returning to its vomit. It's their nature.

And so I have my cherished hatreds of government in almost all of its manifestations, hatreds that are well-reasoned, objectively supportable, and in common with those of any other man of sound moral sense.

But I know I don't have the luxury of indulging in those hatreds when it comes to the practicalities of daily life. I've sutured up the scalp lacerations of policemen, resolved the duodenal ulcers of tax collectors, and even (God forgive me!) successfully resuscitated a politician.

After that, though, dealing with the ills of a mere convicted sex offender is a refreshing exercise in the vicissitudes of the healing arts. After all, sex offenders (those, at least, who are not completely psychotic), do not try to convince the people around them that they are doing injury to *THEIR* victims "for the public good."
--



Loyal D, 18 Wheeler
Loyal D, APOLOGIES, you got me good. 18Wheeler:thanks for helping me see a little.

celtic dragon
I AM GLAD YOU MOVED!

du
I knew I liked you. My husband and I were first responders for many a year. Spouse still works in the field in a periphery sense and has authored a few laws to help first responders. Me I truly hated it and gave it up!

Jail the sex offenders
and release the pot smokers. Talk about bass ackwards.

We have five level 2 or 3 sex offenders withing a 12 mile radius of where I live. And where I live is small. Which makes me wonder just why they choose to come here. My boss hired a level one to give him a second chance. Then the ex-cop co-worker brought up the reality that clients with kids in the small six-degrees-of-separtion town might not want to consider having a sex offender working at their home, and the ripple effect could well drive him out of business. I know it's a tough row to hoe overcoming the stigma just to be a left alone citizen, but they bring it on themselves. That offender no longer works for us.

But I'd take a pot smoker who's been incarcerated over a sex offender any day. Let the sex offenders stay in jail. Particularly those that harm children.

Interesting Dichotomy Here
I am a certified paralegal; niece of a federal judge, used to work in the post conviction, pre-sentencing unit of parole and probation.

I am also a rape victim and my story is on my blog. My daughter was molested by her own father (while I was working outside the home and going to school and he was too lazy to work)--when I found out, I got him out of my life, got my daughter into intense counseling and moved far away from him. Oh, she was only 2 1/2 when it was discovered. At the time I was assaulted, she was 5. Kind of a rough start, or wouldn't you angry people agree?

Trouble was, even though there was sufficient evidence to convict him, the DA where we live wouldn't even look at the case, so he got away scott free. The ex-husband, that is.

When I was assaulted, she was held hostage to enforce my compliance. At gunpoint. By an escapee. I was also asleep in my bed, not out partying or "enticing" anyone with my dress or behavior.

And, he pulled four consecutive life terms--on a plea bargain I strenuously objected to. However, due to the laws at the time, he is allowed to attempt to parole to the next term after 5 years. He SHOULD have been released this year. However, he hasn't been able to parole term 2 to term 3 yet.

Had there not have been a plea bargain, and with the weapons enhancement in place at the time, he should have pulled 13 consecutive life terms for sexual assault with use of a deadly weapon, 13 consecutive life terms for use of a deadly weapon, 2 life terms for kidnapping with use of a deadly weapon, another 2 consecutive life terms for use of a deadly weapon , 1 life term for breaking and entering an occupied dwelling, 1 life term for robbery with use of a deadly weapon and finally, 1 life term for use of a deadly weapon, for a grand total of 33 consecutive life terms.

Now, onto this topic. First of all, there is a 98% recidivism rate for sexual predators, whether their prey is adult or child.

There is no cure for a sexual predator.

Chemical castration is ineffective as is actual castration because sexual assault is a crime of control, not of sex. If castration occurs, the predator will simply find another way of exercising this control, using whatever is at hand.

There is only one cure for a predator--death. Period.

So, for all you bleeding hearts out there, find out the facts of the matter before you start smarting off on the "feel good, touchy-feely, politically correct" nonsense. Sexual predation and politically correct are mutually exclusive terms.

And, yes, I'm virulently anti-abortion for ALL reasons, including rape. The child is innocent and doesn't deserve a death sentence. A criminal sentenced to death has at least been afforded a trial and access to the appellate system. THAT'S how I can believe in capital punishment vs. abortion.

If a predator is sentenced to life--they often do not live to their parole hearings, particularly if they are released into GP. And, more and more, they are. Child abusers and rapists are the lowest of the low and prison justice can be a beautiful thing. Jeffrey Dahmer never made it out alive due to prison justice.

How can I work in the legal field? Well, contrary to other opinions here from the medical field, not all attorneys work for the government and there are quite a few who are also "small businessmen" themselves; further, not all are unethical. My attorney-boss skates awfully close to bankruptcy quite often due to his morals.

My own experiences also bring an empathy to similar victims and a closer eye to cases, an eye that may see things a non-"victim" may not notice.

So, for all the high-falutin' talk and back and forth here, try looking at it from the perspective of someone who's been there and lived it.

Today, my daughter is the happy mother of three children of her own. It took a lot of work, a lot of tears, a lot of anger and a lot of help, but we did it. We are not victims.

As for the children I often saw in autopsies? There is nothing on this earth that can compensate for what was done to them short of executing their executioners and abusers.

Miss Beth - ''been there and lived it''
--
"First of all, there is a 98% recidivism rate for sexual predators, whether their prey is adult or child.

"There is no cure for a sexual predator."
--

So precisely how elastic has the definition for "sexual predator" become? If we're speaking about the involvement of physical violence (armed or not, threatened or overt), the undisputably dangerous character of the offender is easily discerned. He's essentially the same as any other practitioner of mayhem, an aggressor who leverages strength or weaponry to compel submission, battening upon his victim's terrified helplessness.

But is he in the majority among those who are today convicted - or, in a wonderful emulation of old Soviet "Evil Empire" pseudopsychiatry *diagnosed* - as members of the habitual and/or compulsive "sexual predator" category?

Accepting for argument's sake the "98% recidivism rate" assertion as reliable (and what's the recidivism rate among violent criminals who *don't* add an overtly sexual element to the sorts of murderous practices Miss Beth so heartily endorses among the general population ["GP"] in America's out-of-control prisons?), what's the rate at which nominally *normal* men and women - people without reliably diagnosable sexually deviant proclivities (much less overtly criminal actions based upon such paraphilis) become entangled in the criminal justice system?

What happens to the people who can't be proven to have used drugs or guns or knives, whose putative victims don't manifest evidence of genital trauma even on the most painstaking investigatory evaluations, and in whose cases objective proof is non-existent and accusations are "McMartin-esque" in their character?

The egregious instances of violent sexual assault draw attention, as they should. But the courts and the mental health care professions have stretched the term "sexually violent predator" to such an extent that violence need not be proven (indeed, need not even be alleged) for a suspected criminal malfeasant to be accused, indicted, driven into bankruptcy, convicted, and (good ghod!) *DIAGNOSED* as such, branded with the mark of Cain, and persecuted for the rest of his/her life.

Or executed, as Miss Beth and so many others posting comments in this forum demand.

Before you get that far, "...in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken."

And even if the *proclivity* - not the commission, just the arguable predisposition toward - violence against thet vulnerable is to be judged as reason sufficient to permanently imprison someone, why the hell aren't you insisting upon similar perpetual "civil commitment" for those gentlemanly individuals in the prison GP who have been convicted of armed robberies, carjackings, drunken driving, aggravated mayhem, and arson?

As a "a certified paralegal [and the] niece of a federal judge," I'd expect Miss Beth to be familiar with a reliable and well-accepted legal maxim:

"Hard cases make bad law."

And any legal matter involving human sexuality in America - as we've demonsrated with sickening reliability - evokes all the emotional idiocy required to make of the law a Reichstag fire travesty of what law is actually meant to be.

--
"Great cases like hard cases make bad law. For great cases are called great, not by reason of their real importance in shaping the law of the future, but because of some accident of immediate overwhelming interest which appeals to the feelings and distorts the judgment."

... -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Northern Securities Co. v. United States 193 U.S. 197, 400-401 (1904)

death to child rapists
In invoking God's name to justify her hatred, Ms Barber seems to forget that God's punishment for ALL sin is eternity in hell. Presumably Ms Barber is not perfect. so she is headed to the same place, unless she has sought forgiveness. A child rapist may also seek and gain the frogiveness of God, though it seems he should hope for no mercy from Ms. Barber.

SJ-Doc: Dr. of Mental Proctology
You said: So how often have *you* broken out a rape kit in the Emergency Department and examined a patient who'd been brought in by the police for a forensic evaluation, Shelly-baby?

I have never broken out a rape kit. But have you ever had one used on yourself? Have you ever had to see a child rapist get released early only to find that they've lived well in a community only to rape again?

You think your medical community can fix these animals? Show me 3 child rapists who have benefited from any medical resources to make them decent human beings once they are released from prison, and I'll sell you the Brooklyn Bridge for $1.00

The fact is, your profession and your ilk are great for cuts and bruises and a heart failures, but you cannot change and recreate a monster into a human being.

Yes, men have been falsely accused and I believe strict punishment should be enforced on those who are doing the accusing.

However, if there is undeniable proof (and we have the forensics to prove without a doubt guilt or innocense today), and the jury convicts the child rapist, what do you suggest?

Have a sit down with ol' compassionate SJ_Doc and give the rapist/murderer a few pats on the back and try to understa-a-a-a-and them and be s-e-e-e-ensitive to their woes on why they needed to beat, torture, rape and murder innocent children? Oh yeah, that will work. Sure. You're a miracle worker. How did I not see that?

Miss Beth was correct in her statements, 98% of them repeat their offenses, and often in greater numbers and more violently. How many children need to be tortured and killed for you to scratch your noggin and think, "Hmmm....perhaps this guy is a monster and the only thing left to do is to take him out permantently from the GP?"
Only if the guy rapes and murders 5 children in 10 years? 20 children? How many dead and tortured children will convince you?

So you call me a dog or the rest of us who despise child predators schmucks and wish them dead? Methinks you have by far greater personal issues regarding this subject.

Split hairs and insult everyone who doesn't agree with you. Just goes to show me that you may have been on the stand yourself. Just my professional opinion.


millvillage
As a Christian, I am in favor of the death penalty for child rapists. This is perfectly consistent with Gods Law, which required this same sentence in the Old Testament.

Too many people are lukewarm Christians who forget that our God is also the God of Justice. There have already been cases where criminals have been saved while within prison, preached the Gospel, and still had to pay for their crime.

When Christ was crucified, he did not release the criminal from his cross just because he believed in Him and would join him in heaven. The criminal still had to serve out his penalty. But his soul was still saved. Why should we ignore Christ's example?

Boiseriver - the facts
"The death penalty does not provide specific deterrence for the offender; instead it is a form of incapacitation."

Technically, that's true. But the point is, whether a deterrent of incapacitation, someone who is executed will never murder anyone ever again. Have you ever heard of an analogy?

"The evidence regarding general deterrence suggests that the death penalty is no more effective at preventing others from killing than life imprisonment."

First I would argue that the "evidence" is misinterpreted. But second, I agree that the death penalty, AS IT IS CURRENTLY UTILIZED, is not, in fact, a remarkably effective deterrent. We don't use capital punishment nearly enough to make it an effective deterrent. Even in Texas, widely regarded as the most prolific death penalty State, a murder has less than a 1% chance of being identified, captured, tried, convicted, and sentenced to death, not once, but a dozen times throughout the appeals process. Even then, that murderer gets to LIVE for 10-20 years longer than his victim did. OF COURSE it's not a deterrent. Now, there's not much we can do about those "perfect" murders, where police can't even identify a suspecdt, or those murderers who successfully evade capture, or the lack of conclusive evidence. But for those that are caught and convicted of murder, we should be executing every damned one of them. THEN, capital punishment would be an effective deterrent.

"It costs a great deal more (about 2.5 times) to seek and impose a death sentence than to incarcerate an offender for life."

That's just a lie, and has been disproven many times. The only reason death sentences cost anything more than $1.95 worth of electricity or $10.00 worth of drugs is the nearly-endless appeals process. Just feeding the convicted murderer for 10+ years is expensive. And death row inmates require more guards per convict than any other kind of convict. For 10+ years. And these appeals are based on technicalities about the CIRCUMSTANCES of the murder (like the convict's sanity), not real questions about the guilt or innocence of the murderer. Limit these appeals in number, time span, and relevance, so that convicted murderers are executed within 6 months of their conviction, and death penalty cases would be damned-near FREE.

"This is money that could have been spent on effective crime control policies."

What? Like welfare? Community service projects? Funny how the liberal solution is always to throw money at programs that have been PROVEN ineffective at not only alleviating poverty, but at preventing crime.

"The U.S. is the only Western industrialized nation to continue to use the death penalty. Most countries have abolished or have a moratorium on the use of capital punishment."

That's because the US is the only Western industrialized nation with a PAIR, if you know what I mean.

"Public support for the death penalty is on the decline."

Yeah, it declined from 95% to 90%. Still overwhelmingly in support of the death penalty.

"Race of the victim is a factor in who gets a death sentence; if the victim is white, the probability of receiving a death sentence increases."

Strawman. Death penalty advocates actively endorse a FAIR, IMPARTIAL application of the death penalty to ALL convicted murderers, regardless of the race of the victim or the perpetrator. It is unfortunate that some people are less likely to receive the death penalty, and we would very much like to change that. But, until we can achieve that, we see no sense in completely throwing it out just because some people who deserver it don't get it. Let me ask you, Boiseriver. Would you feel better about it if the death penalty was applied fairly, regardless of race or any other factor? I thought not! So just shut up about this. Let us do it the way we want, and we'll fix that problem.

"What would Jesus do in this case? Most of the major religious groups in this country have statements opposing the death penalty."

First of all, I thought you liberals favored separation of church and state. Funny how you completely ignore the Bible until you find ONE VERSE in there that supports your idiotic ideas. If you were a REAL christian, you would know that the Bible clearly supports capital punishment. In Exodus, it says, "... an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life." That's right there after the 10 Commandments, among several other passages that advocate the death penalty.

"The above information probably does not matter to many because the death penalty is an emotional issue. Others use the death penalty to pander to the ignorance of the public for personal gain, such as election to public office. Many respondents to this column seem interested in revenge, not justice or retribution."

No, Boiseriver. The above information does not matter to many because it's a PACK OF LIES. Yes, it's an emotional issue. So emotional that, if the government didn't fulfill its RESPONSIBILITY to execute convicted murderers, then the families of the victims would take the law into their own hands. Is that what you want, Boiseriver? Vigilante justice? I'm all for it. If someone I loved was murdered, even if the death penalty were still legal, I would not trust the justice system to sentence the murderer correctly. Even if the jury condemns him to death, the system is a whole lot more concerned with killing him "humanely" than actually KILLING him. Screw that. I WANT to SOB to suffer! At least as much as his victim suffered.

Yes, Boiseriver, it's all about revenge. But you say that like it's a bad thing.

Regards,
Trevor

Thank you, Trevor!
For all the liberals who can only find their Bibles to support what they want, I LIKE the example given above by Dominigan regarding the "good thief". God is indeed just and the thief was saved--for heaven. But he still had to be punished. Jesus COULD have saved him--and didn't. To me, that answers the liberals right smack in the face about where does Jesus condone capital punishment?

I don't remember how long ago it was I heard this, but in China, executions happened immediately after sentencing. And the family was billed for the bullet.

I also agree with you, Trevor, about expeditiously executing convicted and sentenced death row inmates. Then, capital punishment would indeed be a deterrent. No long, drawn out appeals and garbage.

For my part, I'm still absolutely infuriated that my attacker, while locked up, has had the benefit of free health care, dental care, education, etc. On my tax dime. I and my daughter get attacked twice--once directly and again by our taxes paying for his amenities that we struggle to provide ourselves in the "real world".

I now live in Arizona and one of my favorite people is Sheriff Joe and his tent cities, moldy balogna, no tv's, no magazines, no a/c, no conjugal visits, a "No Vacancy" sign above the prison and chain gangs. Once prisoners are released from his greybar hotel, they don't want to go back! Sheriff Joe may come under a lot of fire for his "inhumane" treatment of criminals, but I'm all for it.

And rapists, baby killers, baby rapists, murderers? I vote they die in the exact same manner their victims died and/or be subject to what they put their victims through. That goes with the whole "humane" ways of "executing" our killers, etc. Who cares about humane? Were THEY humane with their victims? No.

Our touchy-feely liberals want a socialistic/communistic state here--I would suppose that means in all ways and that includes NO human rights for prisoners, immediate executions, no constitutional rights for prisoners, etc. Maybe they need to re-think the issue instead of acting like they all have ostrich syndrome.

Expeditiously execute. No long, drawn out appeals. Bill the family for the drugs/bullet/rope. Implement more Sheriff Joe's throughout the country. Treat prisoners as prisoners--and if they are tried and convicted according to laws, carry the laws out. Period.

child rape / crime
no punishment ever detered crime, it only brought a sense of justice.5,000 years of punishment has not stopped crime. a prevention program will not stop crime. we would have to be involved in the humans life from before conception. and still the odd crime would occur. for the safty of society we can either lock up the criminal, possibly rehabilitate them or eliminate them. nothing else has ever worked. a raped child will carry the memory for life. i regret that.
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