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Friday, December 21, 2007
Kristen Fyfe :: Townhall.com Columnist
Christmas Clashes 2007
by Kristen Fyfe
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


 

There’s good news and bad news this Christmas.

First, the good. Americans are pushing back more than ever against the generic “holiday” tide (see Santa’s Helpers list below). As part of that effort, CMI is unveiling the Grinch-o-Meter, which rates those who are Christmas-challenged.

But here’s the bad: Some of the Grinches seem to be scaling new heights of peevishness and absurdity. And although the national news media are largely ignoring the cultural battle underway, local news sources have been rich with detail.

Here is a roundup of some of the more interesting people, institutions and media stories in this season’s Christmas culture clash, with their Grinch-o-Meter ratings. The Grinch-o-Meter is CMI’s new tool for measuring the Grinchiness of those seeking to secularize, diminish or tarnish the celebration of Christmas in America.  People who actively seek to wreck Christmas for others (for example, ACLU lawsuits regarding nativity scenes), or do something profoundly petty, get a 10.  Others who start off Grinchy and then correct themselves receive a middling score.  People who embrace and promote Christmas without having their arms twisted get a zero on the Grinch-o-Meter.

 

Grinch-o-Meter Ratings 2007

 

  • TOP Grinch-o-Meter Award: The 17 congressmen who supported a resolution recognizing Islam and Ramadan but voted “no” or “present” (that is, there but wouldn’t vote) on a similar resolution introduced by Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) recognizing Christianity and Christmas.  Lawmakers who voted “no” for Christianity and “yes” for Islam are: Reps. Gary Ackerman (D-NY), Yvette Clarke (D-NY), Diana DeGette (D-CO), Alcee Hastings (D-FL), Jim McDermott (D-WA), Bobby Scott (D-VA), Fortney Stark (D-CA) and Lynn Woolsey (D-CA). Those who voted “present” on Christianity and “yes” on Islam include: Reps. John Conyers (D-MI), Barney Frank (D-MA), Rush Holt (D-NJ), Donald Payne (D-NJ), Janice Schakowsky (D-IL), Allyson Schwartz (D-PA), Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL), Peter Welch (D-VT) and John Yarmuth (D-KY).  [Grinch-o-Meter: 10-Plus]

 

  • Ft. Collins, Colorado – The city created a Holiday Display Task Force, which recommended banning red and green lights and using only white ones and only secular symbols.  A local ACLU representative was on the task force.  Fox’s Bill O’Reilly reported on November 27 that the task force’s recommendations were “rebuffed.” The Council voted 6-1 to keep their Christmas decorations. [Task Force gets a Grinch-o-Meter 10; the council gets a 2]

 

  • Ridgeland Schools  –  The Oak Lawn, Illinois district was going to do away with Christmas parties.  But parents raised a fuss, so the school board decided that rather than take Christmas parties off the agenda, they would include celebrations of Ramadan and other Muslim holidays. [Grinch-o-Meter initially registered a 10, but dialed back to a 5]

 

  • Companies that operate government-assisted housing for senior citizens – In Plant City, Florida and Troy, Pennsylvania, residents were told they cannot decorate common areas in their buildings with religious symbols at Christmas.  After being contacted by Liberty Counsel these companies reversed their decisions. [Grinch-o-Meter initially registered a 10, but dialed back to a 2]

 

  • Spokane, Washington – The Associated Press reported that the Spokane Public Schools sent home a calendar for elementary school students with “important dates” for December.  Hanukkah, Human Rights Day, winter break, first day of winter, Kwanzaa and the Islamic holy day of Eid-al-Adha were on the list, but one rather significant holiday beginning with a “C” didn’t make the cut.  A school spokesperson said, “In our efforts to be inclusive we missed the obvious.”  The school corrected the omission in the online calendar. [Grinch-o-Meter registered 10 initially but dialed back to 2]

 

  • Barbara Walters – During the December 13 episode of ABC’s The View, Walters whined about the White House Christmas card because it quotes the Bible’s book of Nehemiah.  “Don’t you think it’s a little interesting that the president of all the people is sending out a religious Christmas card?” she asked her co-hosts.  [Grinch-o-Meter: 9]

 

  • New York City officials – gave the Christian Defense Coalition a Scrooge-like two-hour window to display a small nativity scene in midtown Manhattan.  The display is part of “The Nativity Project,” a nationwide campaign to set up nativity scenes in well-traveled public areas. [Grinch-o-Meter: 9]

 

  • Seattle-Tacoma International Airport – The airport made major headlines last Christmas when it removed all of the Christmas trees on display throughout the airport after being threatened with a lawsuit if a menorah was not also included in the display.  This year, the airport convened a “holiday decorations advisory committee” which determined that the airport would not use any decorations with religious connotations.  The Seattle Post Intelligencer reports this year’s décor is a “grove of luminous birches up to 30 feet high and hung with crystals and mirrors to reflect colored, low-energy lights.”  Above the trees will be a “spiraling flock of migrating birds cut out of foam.”  Wind chimes will occasionally ring as well. [Grinch-o-Meter: 9]

 

  • Chattanooga, Tennessee officials - For years the city has included a live nativity scene in its public festivities.  This year, after receiving a complaint, the city decided to do away with the nativity scene.  A public backlash resulted in the nativity scene being moved to a local church. [Grinch-o-Meter: 9]

 

  • Hollywood, California – For 75 years the city has sponsored a Hollywood Christmas Parade, but it refused to sponsor the parade this year. The Los Angeles City Council has taken over, and is changing the name to the Hollywood Santa Parade. [Grinch-o-Meter: 8]

 

  • The Texas Gas Transmission Company – The company ended a four-decade-long tradition in Owensburg, Kentucky of displaying a large, lighted cross.  The company’s president, H. Dean Jones II, said the cross was a religious symbol and the company didn’t want to alienate people of other faiths.  [Grinch-o-Meter: 8]

 

  • Missouri State University – The college took down a Christmas tree from an atrium in a campus building after a Jewish faculty member said it “showed a lack of sensitivity” to people of other religions.  After the local press reported the story, the administration reconsidered and put the tree back up. [Grinch-o-Meter registered 8 initially but dialed back to 2]

 

  • Oberlin, Ohio artist Keith McGuckin – Last year it was gingerbread Nazis with Swastika-labeled candles. This year, McGuckin has created a murderous snow woman and a drug smuggling elf.  His art is on display at the Oberlin Public Library and a local crafts store, according to WEWS in Cleveland. [Grinch-o-Meter: 7]

 

  • The Ohio Department of Natural Resources – Bureaucrats initially ordered all state parks to remove Nativity scenes because of one complaint.  After being contacted by Liberty Counsel, a Christian legal defense organization, the ODNR changed its stance and decided to continue “prior holiday traditions.” [Grinch-o-Meter: 6]

 

  • New Hyde Park, New York school officials – The district drew the ire of more than 250 residents when it considered changing the name of school Christmas Concerts to Holiday or Winter Concerts.  The New York Times reported the large crowd came out in August to demand to keep “Christmas” in the Christmas concerts. The district reportedly was considering the change based on a single complaint. [Grinch-o-Meter: 5]

 

Overall, the Grinches seem to be losing ground to common sense and tradition.

During the Nov. 27 broadcast of The O’Reilly Factor, conservative talk radio host Mike Gallagher said he believed that the rise of conservative voices in the media, especially on talk radio and on Fox News Channel, has helped shift the tide in the War on Christmas.

No doubt the clashes will continue.  The ACLU [Grinch-o-Meter: 10-plus] typically only has to threaten a lawsuit against a town or school, and administrators will buckle.  On top of that, advertisers and retailers continue to hype the generic “Holiday” at the expense of Christmas.  The “Duh, Duh, Duh, Duh” ads by carmaker Hyundai come to mind. [Grinch-o-Meter: 8] Retailers like Banana Republic, The Gap (also owns Old Navy), Eddie Bauer and Petco [collective Grinch-o-Meter: 8] spend massive amounts of advertising dollars and use only the word “Holiday.”  Some companies go to ridiculous lengths not to mention Christmas.  Circuit City and CVS [Grinch-o-Meter: 8] have ads for “Free Shipping” or a “Holiday Shipping Schedule” for delivery by December 24.   That would be Christmas Eve.

Other retailers have been more responsive.  Lowe’s, the home improvement chain, came under fire in November when one of its circulars carried the banner “Family Trees” over pictures of Christmas trees.  Lowe’s issued a public apology and said it would be advertising them as Christmas trees this year. [Grinch-o-Meter: 3] Home Depot still calls the conifers (both fake and live) “Holiday Trees.” [Grinch-o-Meter: 9]

For current lists of retailers who are Christmas friendly, check Focus on the Family and Liberty Counsel, which regularly update their information.

And then there are television networks.  Again, the push/pull of the Christmas clash is evident.  Every year, different networks air classic Christmas movies or TV shows like Charlie Brown’s Christmas, in which Linus recites the Biblical account of Jesus’ birth.  It is always the top-rated show across multiple demographics when it airs. [ABC aired the program this year. Grinch-o-Meter: 0]   In contrast, more than two-thirds of the publicly owned PBS stations refused to air the program “The Birth of Christ,” the CD of which is currently No. 4 on the Billboard charts. [For those 200+ stations, Grinch-o-Meter: 10].

There is little doubt that the culture clash surrounding Christmas will not end any time soon.  In a Chicago Tribune article about the Oak Lawn schools’ Christmas-Ramadan brouhaha, Bernard Beck, a sociology professor emeritus at Northwestern University, said demographic shifts often create such conflicts.  He added that religious tolerance in America is constantly being renegotiated.

Despite the continuing liberal efforts to sanitize the religious aspects of Christmas and make it just another holiday, renegotiation is, in fact, happening.  The Christmas Spirit is spreading, as attested by the activities of people like those who made our Santa’s Helper List. 
 

Santa’s Helpers 2007

Many organizations have taken a stand for Christmas. Among them are Focus on the Family, American Family Association, Concerned Women for America, Liberty Counsel and the Alliance Defense Fund.  Standout media Christmas defenders include Bill O’Reilly and John Gibson at Fox News and conservative talk radio host Mike Gallagher. 

But there are others, less well known, who are also making a difference.  Below is a list of some unsung heroes who have received limited, if any, media attention in their efforts to fight for Christmas this year.

  • Chad Fradette, president of the Green Bay, Wisconsin city council, paid for a nativity scene at City Hall after learning of an anti-religion group’s protest of a nativity in a smaller town 40 miles away.  “So now the Freedom From Religion Foundation can pick on somebody a little larger,” Fradette said.

 

  • Worcester Wreath Co. of Harrington, Maine, donates 10,000 wreaths every year to place on the graves of soldiers at Arlington National Cemetery.  The owner also covers the expenses for trucking the wreaths from Maine to Virginia.  In 2006, the program was expanded to provide wreaths to 200 state and national veteran’s cemeteries.  This year, the company will also send wreaths to 24 veteran’s cemeteries on foreign soil.  

 

  • The Wisconsin State Assembly voted to call the balsam fir in the Capitol a “Christmas tree.”  The tree had been called a Christmas tree from 1916 to 1985, according to Rep. Marlin Schneider (D), but had been downgraded in recent years.  In an interview with Fox News he said, “Political correctness took over and then we decided it would become a holiday tree. But what it really is, is a Christmas tree, and there’s nothing really wrong with that.”

 

  • The U.S. Marines Toys for Tots program is doing yeoman’s work again, this year sifting through donated toys to make sure children don’t receive any toys recalled due to lead contamination.

 

  • Ashley Tarter of James City County, Virginia, created a line of buttons that say “Wish Me a Merry Christmas.” Tarter was so fed up with store employees who would only say “Happy Holidays” that she launched the button business in July. Her Website is www.wmamc.com

 

  • Jim Ward of Westminster, Maryland, operates Operation Christmas Tree. The program seeks to send Christmas trees to troops serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.  Operation Christmas Tree has shipped 5,000 trees this season.  Ward was inspired by his daughter, an Army medic who was deployed last Christmas. www.operationchristmastree.com

 

  • Thousands of individuals, like Linda Harvey of Mission: America, take the time to write to companies to express her disgust when they omit the word “Christmas” in their advertising.  Harvey, based in Columbus, Ohio, wrote to several, saying, “I will not be buying from you this year.  Your latest e-mail advertisement fails to mention the actual name of the actual holiday for which we’re all supposed to spend so much money.  Until you actually mention Christmas, I can’t find any reason for which to spend money with you.”

 

  • Finally, we salute the anonymous author of the poem CMI received last week:

‘Twas the month before Christmas when all through our land,
Not a Christian was praying, nor taking a stand.
Why the P.C. Policemen were taking away,

The reason for Christmas - no one could say.

The children were told by their schools not to sing,

About Shepherds and Wise Men and Angels and things.
It might hurt someone’s feelings, the teachers would say

December 25th is just a “Holiday.”

And shoppers were ready with cash, checks and credit

Pushing folks down to the floor just to get It!
CDs from Madonna, an X BOX, an I-pod.
Something was changing, something was quite odd!

Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa

In hopes to sell books by Franken and Fonda.
As Best Buy was busy promoting their “WOW”

At Home Depot “Christmas” trees couldn’t be found.

At K-Mart and Staples and Penny’s and Sears

The hallowed word “Christmas” will ne’er grace your ears.
Inclusive, sensitive, Di-ver-si-ty
The terms that were used to intimidate me.

Now Edwards, Pelosi, Now Sharpton, Wolf Blitzen

On Boxer, on Barack , on Kerry, on Clinton !

At the top of the Senate, there arose such a clatter

To eliminate Jesus, in all public matter.

And we spoke not a word, as they muzzled our faith

Forbade us to speak of salvation and grace.
The true Gift of Christmas exchanged and discarded

The reason for the season, stopped before it started.

So as you celebrate “Winter Break” under your “Dream Tree”
Sipping your Starbucks, listen to me.
Choose your words carefully, choose what you say

Shout “MERRY CHRISTMAS,” not “Happy Holiday.”

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About The Author

Kristen Fyfe is senior writer at the Culture and Media Institute, a division of the Media Research Center.

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T.C., SteveL
Your pithy (as O'Reilly would say) comments are appreciated. I was being rhetorical, because i couldn't conceive of a sensible answer, but you folks had thoughtful answers.

Ok Mom- but
I think Christ would welcome him to the table.

SunThe1
That's your prerogative, but as far as I'm concerned, for a person to scorn God 364 days of the year then expect presents and goodies on Christmas is the very definition of hypocrisy and cynicism.

He Mom!
Go easy on Mark. It's okay for him to do Christmas. I'm glad he does. I only have a problem with people who want to do it but call it something else.

ModerateMark
A really lovely example of the hypocrisy I'm talking about.

If you had the courage of your supposed convictions you'd have nothing to do with any form of religious celebration.

Atheists claim its possible to have a system of morals in the absence of a Higher Authority. But give you a chance at some goodies and you abandon your philosophy.

I hope that in future discussions everyone here remembers the weakness and flexibility of your supposed atheist "principles".



Oregon "john"

Merry Christmas, buddy.

The inconvenient truth
It is not the jews, muslims or any other religion that objects to Christ in Christmas. It's the secular left, who really wants to participate in the shopping, lighting, partying and feasting without having to be reminded that the X=Christ.
For them, I guess anyone who reminds them of that would be a grinch. Sorry.
(For the record, most of us have no problem with anyone who participates in any way they like. Just don't make us whisper the Christ part).

War on Logic
Ah yes, let's complain that those secular humanists are "warring" on a holiday that first-generation Christians never observed. that was cobbled together from a variety of pagan traditions, that is celebrated on a date that fits the winter solstice rather than Jesus' actual birth date, and has been overlaid with absurd displays of consumerism. Then let's ignore the real goal of those alleged "secular humanist warriors---to protect constitutional separation of church and state----and insist that they are "grinches" for complaining if manger scenes are placed on property paid for by the tax dollars of people from all faiths and no faith.

renny
"If you and a couple others are "offended," don't celebrate Christmas, don't give or receive Christmas presents, don't say, "Merry Christmas," and avoid Christmas season culture."

Exactly.

Those non-Christians who have a spirit of good will and who are willing to respect the beliefs of Christians are welcome to join us in honoring the birth of God-made-man in the person of Jesus.

Let those who are offended by Jesus treat December 25th as an ordinary day in every way.

But those who want the goodies without the God are vile hypocrites who deserve every ounce of shame and scorn society can pile on them.

renny
you are right about wishing people a merry christmas. I refuse to say happy holidays. I enjoy the season and am not going to conform to the p/c crowd who don't want to offend but resort to offensive behavior. This is a special time of the year. Starting with halloween which is lots of fun, then thanksgiving with the turkey and then all that goes with christmas. We have sloping ceilings that reach 10 feet in the center of the house. We bought a nine foot tree and leave it up year round. With only two of us here we have plenty of unused space and mrs wildwest likes the idea of seeing the tree year round. Have a very merry christmas

Celebrating Christmas
is not trying to convert anyone else.

And my point is that in a culture where c. 90% of the populace wants to practice the observance of a religious occasion throughout that society, including religious imagery in public places, the minor percentage should not have the right to impose its view on everyone else.

The ONLY reason for fourth quarter shopping, decorating, and socializing in December is Christmas. Period.

I don't think Target, WalMart, or Sears want to give up their December profits. And Christians have every right to defend their traditions and ask that Christmas merchandizing be labeled for Christmas.

If you and a couple others are "offended," don't celebrate Christmas, don't give or receive Christmas presents, don't say, "Merry Christmas," and avoid Christmas season culture.

But if you think people saying to you, "Merry Christmas" is an attempt to convert you, you need a psychiatrist to help you get in touch with your intelligence.

I guess
that puts me in the "older than" category. I remember when one of the highlights of our County Seat was the decorations on The Green which always included a Navity Scene, sometimes live. And no one objected, we just enjoyed it.
The first songs I learned in the early grades were hymns, we had opening exercises including
a reading of a Bible verse and each student took
turns leading them. The jewish kids read from the Old Testament, we had a prayer and the pledge. My H.S. graduation included hymns.
Now we are living under the tyranny of the minority and they don't like it now that we are
not hiding under our pews. Like all bullies they will whine and retreat.
Andrews, thank you. When I was a kid, my jewish
friends would exchange gifts with me and their
other neighborhood friends, we gave Christmas gifts to them and we received Hannukah gifts from them.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

It's about tradition
Anyone older than about 25 can remember how omni-present Christmas -- with its religious symbols -- was until just a few years ago.
This is not about protecting government from a sudden wave of evangelicalism. It is about changing traditions that have been in place for many generations.

If the majority of people want them to change, that's how it is. But that isn't what's happening. Instead, a relatively few individuals are demanding that everyone else conform to the chips on their own shoulders.

Want to know how few or many are like this? Don't judge by how many come up on this board -- by and large only the terminally ticked-off progressives come here to argue. Rather, say 'Merry Christmas' to everyone you meet, then see how many respond with smiles and well-wishes, and how few respond with frowns.

One More Thing
I am actually a bit more disturbed by "Happy Holidays" than "Merry Christmas".

Hanukkah is not really "the Jewish Christmas". Yes, there are small gifts and lights involved, but that's it. Hanukkah is a minor holiday, and, outside of the US, is not much of an event. (Purim is more Christmas-like, with a bit of Halloween thrown in.)

So, to turn Hanukkah into a big event to make it the "Jewish Christmas" is a bit offensive. Akin to saying "Well, you people need something too, so here, use this holiday..."

There is something condescending in thinking I will be upset if I don't have a December holiday because the Christians have one. Makes it sound like the powers that be think we are all 3 year olds who will get upset if Jimmy has a new shiny truck and we don't.

So please stick to Merry Christmas. Not really any significant Jewish holy days in late December , and certainly none requiring a separate greeting.

At least no one has tried to mix together Easter and Passover. The Easter/Passover Egg and Chametz Hunt would be quite a sight, but I think I'll pass...

Anne
I have a similar response. To those I know to be Christian I wish them a Merry Christmas, to those I know to be Jewish I wish them appropriate holiday greetings (Hanukkah [drives me crazy how no one can agree on a single transliteration of that word] not really being that big a deal for the more orthodox, with whom I have most contact, I tend to say nothing much this time of year.)

I know there are some who think a Jew wishing someone a Merry Christmas is wrong (a few of the ultra-orthodox who consider it verging on blasphemous, but mostly leftward leaning, secular Jews who just want to be offended), but I have no problem wishing others good fortune on their holiday. In no way does wishing a Christian a Merry Christmas threaten my identity as a Jew.

And that is the absurdity. Everyone can see (well, almost everyone) that there is no harm in me wishing someone a Merry Christmas, but, somehow, if my town puts up a nativity scene, it threatens to bring Torquemada out of mothballs and turn America into the rebirth of the Jesuit state of Uruguay, or something along those lines... Did ACLU lawyers think the Handmaid's Tale was nonfiction? Give it a rest! A manger in the town square will not lead to book burnings and ghettos. I have no fear that George Bush is planning to march me off to a re-education camp where Dr. Dobson's minions will convert me. (Sadly, I think many on the left DO believe that, however.)

United we stand
...and we must remain united to keep Christmas a traditional holiday for the majority of Americans (80-90%?) who believe.

On principle, I did not buy anything this year from a business that used the word "holiday".

Merry Christmas!


To Renney
Maybe you would have a different view if you were from one of the 1%, 2%, OR 3% minorities. Say Merry Christmas all you like it is a free country, but don't attack Target because they believe that everyone's money is green and use the more inclusive term Holidays.

Put all the Nativity scenes up on your front lawn. But don't involve the government but putting Nativity Scenes in Public Buildings. Keep religion in the churches and homes and in you heart, but don't impose your will on others who don't believe but forcing your brand of religion into the Public Schools.

Work on being a good Christian in accordance with your own beliefs. Stop trying to convert others.


$.02
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at the sadness I am experiencing at the moment. Here we are closing in on the day we celebrate the birth of Christ our Lord and still there are so many self-proclaimed Christians who cannot tame their tongues (fingers on the keys) long enough to honor the One who is celebrated at this time of year.

For shame.

Whatever happened to “peace on earth, good will toward men?”

SteveL
I have the same memories from S. Jersey.

When we had "prayer" in school, we had readings from literature: Ralph Waldo Emerson, Chauder, E. B. White, O. Henry, Mark Twain, Henry David Thoreau, Goethe, Dumas, the Bible--both Testaments, Shakespeare, Moliere, and Dante, etc.

Until I was in high school and college, I didn't know or understandd where some of the quotes came from or exactly what they meant.

But they gave my generation a huge background in allusions that today's "college" students are in entire ignorance: they don't know 40 days and 40 nights or winter of our discontent or the more things change the more they are the same.

We sang Christmas carols and actually lit menorahs in grade school classes. I regularly attended a friend's seders, and not too long ago, I held a Christmas dinner where my son and I were the only Christians. I called it my ecumenical Christmas as the other ten diners were Jews and/or undeclared religious affiliations.

It has taken the Roman Catholics and evangelicals to fight back against the degradation and diminuition of religions practice and influence in the US--and sites like Townhall that sponsor free thoughts and expression.

RobertAbbott: I say Merry Christmas. :-)

And why not? I'm not Jewish, but I say Happy Hanukah to my Jewish friends.

And, as I posted above, as my children were growing up, we often had our Jewish and athiest and agnostic friends share in our Christmas and Easter celebrations. Some came to our Christmas and Easter concerts at our parish... and enjoyed every minute of the wonderful music.

It was about sharing our holiday with our friends.





holidays and celebrations
this notion of some minority group being offended because a larger group wishes to celebrate a holidau is out of control. If the majority in a community decides they want religious symbols on display in the public square that is their right. When a handful of individuals start to cry about being offended they need to go into the corner start sucking their thumb and stfu. We live in a republic where majority rules. If the offended parties don't want to participate, no one is forcing them to be a part of the celebration. If schools want to hold christmas parties and some students and faculty members don't want to attend they can spend time at the library rading a book. Our culture traditionaly has not been one of the tail wagging the dog except now in the rush to always be p/c. I am offended that those of us who want to celebrate the holidays are told they mustn't offend. For nutjobs like animal girl exactly who is saying merry christmas to offend. At this time of year most have feelings of goodwill to the fellow citizens. The only exception I ever ran in to was wishing a merry christmas to a black sales clerk at a department store who responded in a very nasty and harse voice that she only celebrated kwanza and had no use for christmas, which in itself was odd as she was well past 60 and had been around longer than the made up kwanza has existed. But to all have a very merry christmas and happy new year. We are celebrating christmas at our house, complete with the meal, the presents the decorated treee and the christmas carols. Our one concession to living in ariz. is that we now have a cactus decorated with angels rather than the former christmas tree we used to decorate

Never Tolerate Intolerance Ever.
Mother of 4 writes: Saturday, December, 22, 2007 2:53 PM
No, Lily, ...
---

You know that you are a wise mother when we put a limit on what we tolerate. And, as violence is the fruit of intolerance, it must never be tolerated.

Merry Christmas Mother of 4
Would by believe my mother raised 14?

The Message Is Clear Intolerance Is Here
Whose faith is more precious than one sincere?
Who cherishe others with the same love and cheer!
The spirit of Anti-Christ also is near,

Armed with truth, faith, hope and Charity,
Wrapped in perfect love there is no fear
God's blessings to all, through all the New Year.

I find wise council in the beatitudes, a message of Christ’s Spirit, and love for us all. A model on how we may live free, of fear and animosity. I is not important who is right or wrong, but the course and path we choose to be on; for every hour is our finest, and each moment destiny. One choice may bring bondage, another makes us free, moreover that choice is up to you and to me.

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, and Ramadan

Please, please forgive me, but God would have us all live as one in truth, faith hope and charity, than shall peace reign, to be as one, for the God of the heavens, of Christian, Jew and Islam.

There are so many faiths, not mentioned here, and we cannot exclude any form our respect so long as common and universal values shared are mutually respected for the Constitution which grantees individual, and religious freedom to all, so long as we obey the law and allow others the same, as the truth honor and integrity beings liberty to us all. We all need to be a tolerant people, everyone.

I'm an atheist, but
I'm an atheist, but I always say Merry Christmas. I'm not sure why. I think it's that Christmas is our festival and a lot of people want to take it away from us.

for Savage99
Savage99 asks: "Just what is driving these idiots?"

This is POLITICS, pure and simple.

The secular liberals are off on a crusade (I use that word deliberately) to bring unrestricted abortion on demand, and same-sex marriage, to every state and community in America. There is very little debate about the validity of these goals on the Left; they are taken as axiomatic, the "inevitable" march of progress.

Now the Christian Church is the most powerful institution opposing that agenda. So the secular liberals are employing all the usual tools of politics to try to get the Church out of their way: Smear tactics. Threats. Increasingly restrictive regulations on Church activity. And attempts at marginalization and even deligitimization.

The Leftist war on religion started when Margaret Sanger introduced the contraceptive Pill and the Church promptly opposed it. The fight was on and the fight goes on today.

stevel
amen

for lilly
lilly writes: "Right-wingers love to say they are "pushing back" but fail to realize that, by politicizing the season, they cause a backlash."

Lilly,
your account doesn't square with my own recollection.

When I was a kid in the late 1950s and early 1960s, I went to public school in New York. We had Christian kids and Jewish kids in our class. We sang Christmas carols together--yes, the Jewish kids sang them too. Then we sang Hanukkah songs. When I was in junior high school and high school, the school orchestras would play Christmas music at this time of the year. There were a lot of Jewish kids in that orchestra, and they played those songs happily along with their fellow musicians.

Nobody took offense. Jews knew that they were a minority inside a majority Christian class, and they understood that if Christians want to hear Christian songs, it's their call and they couldn't just stalk off in a huff.

It was LIBERAL promulgation of identity politics, starting with your heavy support for black militancy in the 1960s and then feminist militancy in the 1970s, that created Balkanized, embittered minority groups with a separatist mindset, who now walk around with chips on their shoulders just looking for an excuse to take offense.

The late great political writer, Theodore H. White, explained it very well: The older civil rights movements, like Dr. Martin Luther King's, were based on good will and a call to conscience. The newer movements, which YOU LIBERALS subsidized heavily, were based on BITTERNESS--the notion that minorities must win their rights not by working with the majority, but AGAINST the majority, and at their expense.

andrews
You did just fine.

The nation's Judeo-Christian beliefs are still strong, Thank God.

Also, America's support of Isreal is still strong. Again, Thank God.

Merry Christmas, andrews and............

HAPPY HANUKAH!

Happy Holiday OK, Family Tree Absurd
I agree that these battles are silly. People who choose to be offended should just relax. The only problem I have with all of this is that we are starting to see a little hyper-sensitivity on the other side. Get off the backs of stores who simply wish people a "Happy Holiday." There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. This phrase has been used for centuries.

andrews
Thank you very much.

I likewise will take it in spirit intended if you were to wish me Happy Hannukah or to give me whatever greeting you deem appropriate for Passover or Yom Kippur.

Note to raving secularists: Tolerance is when I email my Wiccan friend a Christmas card with the Good News of Christ's birth in it and she emails me a Solstice card with the blessings of her goddess in it and both of us take it in the spirit meant without either taking offense.

Anne
Don't worry. I know better than to believe Hal D even if he said that the sun rose in the east. :)

No, Lily, ...
You ask, "Mother of 4, are you teaching those four children to slam doors in the face of all who do not share your family's religious beliefs?"

No, Lily, I am teaching them that they cannot have their cake and eat it too.

I am teaching them that decisions have consequences.

I am teaching them that one cannot insult a person then expect him to reward you.

I am teaching them to be people of upright character rather than hypocrites.

A Jew, a Muslim, a Hindu, even a Wiccan who will respect my God and acknowledge that the Holy Day celebrated on December 25th is Christmas -- the Christ Mass in honor of the birth of Jesus -- will be welcomed at my table.

A raving secularist whose "tolerance" extends to anything and everything except Christ and Christian and who demands that I practice my religion in secret because any mention of it in public is "offensive" or "insensitive" is not and never will be welcome.

Christ drove the moneychangers from the temple with a whip because they profaned the Holy place of God. Can Christ's followers today do any less than insist that those who refuse to acknowledge our God likewise not be permitted to profane his Holy Day?

Lilli and the Libs
Merry Christmas!

My Permission
Speaking as a Jew, I would like to give permission to any and all to say the word "Christmas" anywhere near me, or even to wish me a "Merry Christmas". You may place any and all Christian symbols anywhere I may see them, and you may sing carols, exchange gifts, etc without offending me.

There, does that prevent the ACLU and others from suing on my behalf (supposedly) to prevent me from being (supposedly) offended?

Then again, as an evil supporter of that root of all evils, Israel, I am probably suspect, so I doubt I did much good there.


Rich D.
Christmas dinner will be pork chops with cranberry-apple stuffing, baked sweetpotatoes, cranberry sauce, a fancy salad of endive and escarole (alas, the drought prevented me from being able to harvest it from my own garden), and my mother-in-law's famous and sought after fruitcake for dessert.

You and yours are welcome, but we'd better make it a potluck because its a thin year as we get a new business off the ground. :D

It seems
As if the dreary existence belongs to conservatives. Even their own joyful holiday has just become another reason to be angry--another thing to fight about.

Someone has to be crazy to be offended by someone saying "Merry Christmas", but someone has to be equally crazy (if not more so) to be offended by Happy Holidays.

Offended? Really? Wow, you people really will take any excuse to start whining victimhood.

It's a nice greeting. Get over yourselves and start acting like you actually enjoy the holiday, instead of just interminably spoiling for a fight.

MERRY CHRISTMAS
I stand in the door way as I leave the store and yell MERRY CHRISTMAS.
I do this in the stores that say "the same to you" talk about pewcky.
Grinch o meter 10 to the following:
Sears, JC Penney's, Macy, Mervins, TJMaxx, Ross, Lowes, Boarders, Barnes & Noble, House of Fabrics, Fredy Meyers, Albertsons, Pet Smart. These are the ones I can think of. I know there are others but maybe this will get back to the powers that be.

Hopefully seeing their names in print will embarrass them. However I will not be holding my breath I am still going to 'Merry Christmas' you. And if you don't like it -- to dam# bad.
If yo are not willing to acknowledge the reason for Christmas then you can not buy or give Christmas presents, you work the day like every other day.
If fact if we all stop buying holiday presents and spent the day with family, in church, I wonder would the stores would be willing to change their tune.

I guess it depends which group makes the loudest noise or which group spends the most. Supposedly non Christians do not buy Christmas presents.

Quit honestly I am offended that I am being told I cannot acknowledge Christmas for why it is.
To all who are offended at the reminder of GOD, get off your over inflated ego and stop trying to tell me there is no GOD.
Just because you do not like having someone tell you how to live. If you should live your life by the ten commandments you would have an easier time enjoying your life.

Our System Is being Gamed
When you decide to vote for "ANYONE" you had better know where they stand on the "social issues" which often are never even brought up during a campaign.

For example they will get into office under the normal pretense they are representing the people that voted them for say, improving highway congestion, when in fact they have a hidden separate agenda. They do their thing and if they do not get in the next time they do not care because the dastardly deeds are now the law.

Call them the CLOSETED whatever's.

To most folks here
And Hallyboy does not go out of his way to come over from the Kos and Huffnpuff and try to make us "feel bad" cause we do not agree with him.
And I am sure his family will be overwhelmed with joy that whatever gifts he gives out were just him doing his patriotic duty and not giving gifts in the spirit of the time.
Roberta is another plant from the left. It would be interesting to see how the huffnpuff and Kos pick the ones to come over and assume the label of Roberta, lilly and the rest. I'lll bet they have to submit their best HATE speech for the day to be picked

A very Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas to everyone but secular "regressives". A very Merry Christmas to you, Bill O'Reilly. Push back against atheists, push back against "cultural diversity", push back against the ACLU and all secular "regressives". And, The7Sticks, I hope your stocking is stuffed with the F word and plenty of F bombs.

Free Ramos and Compean
Liberals eat yellow snow (it's pee-quant)
Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas

loco
"How is it that I can't say I am offended when we are bowing to the offended minority all over the place? Am I considered rude because I am a christian? or is it because I am also a conservative? "

No, you are considered rude because you attack for a greeting given in peace and joy. You go out of your way to make someone "feel" bad.

loco
It don't matter what you "are". If you aint from the huffnpuff or aint a kos kid you are to be attacked for having "wrong" thoughts. Maintain your convictions and beliefs. That makes 'em work all that much harder to "try" and change you.
Merry Christmas to you and your family.

Christ came for everyone
Christ came into the world for everyone, including you Lilly. At Christmas we celebrate His birth, its a federal holiday and lots of folks who are I assume are not Christians, dont have a problem with taking the days off, and they are happy to not hit the office on Sundays. This whole thing that was brought about by the ACLU and a very small minority or our population in wrong headed thinking. It is finally making the 80% of us who are Christians speak up. Thanks to people like O'Rilley for giving it a push. God does not need us and it really makes little difference if stores say "Merry Christmas," to the plan He has for mankind. However why be a grinch? Let the joy come forth, and wish everyone a Merry Christmas, and happy hoidays..

Folks
Off to do my patriotic duty and shop. If anyone says happy holidays I will say the same to you the same as I will say if they say merry xmas. It is the holidays lots of them. You know growing up my 60 years "happy holidays" was always said except on xmas day and eve other times no, "happy holidays" was for the whole season and new years celebration. Then along came the "christians" as opposed to the "Christians" and sowed division and hate.

That aside folks be as bitter as you like but know I will be with my family, friends and loved ones for the holidays, an unusual treat. I wish the same for all of you. If forced to be away from your families I say best wishes for next year and think happy thoughts of holidays past and dreams for holidays future

Anne
Yes Anne I think I recall that circumstance. From what I have seen and remember of you postings here at TH you seem to be a reasonable and friendly person. Merry Christmas to you and your family.

Hal Donahue
How is it that I can't say I am offended when we are bowing to the offended minority all over the place? Am I considered rude because I am a christian? or is it because I am also a conservative?

Anne
"You're buying into your liberal revisionist history.... "

Your library is a time machine go there and go back in time to old history books and newspapers. Wonderful places. Go to the reference department they can really help you. Oh dear! I hope you haven't closed yours....

Bobby:

Did you get my apology? I left it on that thread a few says ago...






Anne
Well, it depends on which troll from the huffnpuff or kos has adopted the "lilly" name for the day. It appears that is what they do. They send over tolls to stir up discontent.
Again, a dreary existance. Their main reason for existing is to try and tear down anyone who does not agree with their interpretation of how the world should work.
Kinda like the Borg on startrek...........
You must assimilate....resistance is futile....
But like us good guys & girls here at TH, we resist and WE WIN
Merry Christmas y'all!!

Iris: lilly "easily manipulated."


Just like most of the liberals... revisionist history and everything is always somebody else's fault...

And, how could we forget the ridicule and name calling... They're always good at that too.




lilly
How odd....it seems to me that everything lilly said about Christmas and those of us whow celebrate it is exactly how we feel about her and her american criminal liberties union friends. For some reason they just cannot stand to see the rest of the world happy about something. It seems that the only thing that makes them happy is to make us unhappy. What a dreary existance.
And at the risk of showing I know little of the jewish religion, I find it odd that us Christians celebrate the birth of a Jew as our saviour but Jewish people do not celebrate the birth of this Jew who is the son of God that we all worship.

loco
"Should Lilly wish me Happy Holidays
I would be offended and have a right to say so. "

Really that would simply be rude and I would tell you that if you tired that...

"Hooray for Bill O'Reilly and his crusade each year against the politically correct at Christmas."

He needs something to fire up the hateful LMAO silly man but hey keep him rich...

"I will not shop in a store advertising "Holiday" presents. This being a free country, I have that right just as they can call this time of year anything they want. "

yes you do and no "church" will force you too either....

halD: WRONG AGAIN!

You're buying into your liberal revisionist history....


Anne
"“Our founding fathers were not Christians. They were deists, atheists, and agnostics.”"

Did I say that? Although it does have some truth to it. By the revolution the fighting and killing between the "religious" groups in NE had virtually discredited the religiour groups. You leave out the inconvenient truth that once established many of these groups started killing and punishing "unbelievers".

Au contraire!

The pilgrims, as you will recall, were, Christians fleeing Europe in order to escape religious persecution, and they literally began their stay in their new land with the words, “In the name of God, Amen.”

"America was indeed founded by bible-believing Christians and based on Christian principles. When they founded this country, the Founding Fathers envisioned a government that would promote and encourage Christianity. "

Actually the thinkers and philosopers of the enlightenment contributed more to the constitution than any other single group. All were nominally Christian at least many devote

Should Lilly wish me Happy Holidays
I would be offended and have a right to say so.

Hooray for Bill O'Reilly and his crusade each year against the politically correct at Christmas.

I will not shop in a store advertising "Holiday" presents. This being a free country, I have that right just as they can call this time of year anything they want.

My own experience
I recently rang bells for the Salvation Army in
front of a grocery story. I said Merry Christmas
to everyone, and no one got sore except the person who was standing next to me. She kept reminding me that some people are offended by that. I said sorry but I am a Christian, it is Christmas, and I am ringing for the Salvation Army.

Only two guys, who were together, protested. They were black and probably in their early 30's. They made a point of not giving because I said Merry Christmas. (maybe they were Muslim? I don't know). I said, that is alright. I will give for you and I dropped in a $5.00 bill. One guy laughed and said, Ok, you got my $5.00 also. And he did put it in. The other just walked away.

animalgirl/Lilly
"I have quite a few Muslim, Jewish, and Hindu friends and coworkers--none of them mind if I slip out a Merry Christmas. I do pay special attention to when the Jewish High Holy Days, Eid and Divali are, because it's just nice and respectful to recognize other people's holidays. I wonder how many of the people who think they are being oppressed if the whole world doesn't celebrate their holiday the way they wanted have ever bothered to wish someone a joyful Eid or a good Divali."

Now see they will say this is a CHRISTIAN nation and you should never condone other false religions' holiday. What is wrong with you girl? Heck the fundamentalist conservatives even HATE other "Christian" religions because they don't "do it right". I am guessing from what I read on TH and elsewhere "right" means hate....

Christianity and America, Part 2


All but two of the first 108 universities founded in America were Christian. This includes the first, Harvard, where the student handbook listed this as Rule #1: “Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, John 17:3; and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation for our children to follow the moral principles of the Ten Commandments."

In 1777. Continental Congress voted to spend $300,000 to purchase bibles which were to be distributed throughout the 13 colonies! And in 1782, the United States Congress declared, “The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.


Christianity and America

http://www.faithofourfathers.net/

“Our founding fathers were not Christians. They were deists, atheists, and agnostics.”

Au contraire!

The pilgrims, as you will recall, were, Christians fleeing Europe in order to escape religious persecution, and they literally began their stay in their new land with the words, “In the name of God, Amen.”

The pilgrims were followed to New England by the Puritans, who created bible-based commonwealths. Those commonwealths practiced the same sort of representative government as their church covenants. Those governmental covenants and compacts numbered more than 100, and were the foundation for our Constitution.

New Haven (Connecticut) and Massachusetts were founded by Puritans who wanted to reform the Church of England, who later became known as Congregationalists. Roger Williams founded the colony of Rhode Island based on the principle of freedom of conscience. Pennsylvania was established by William Penn as a Quaker colony. Maryland was a haven for Catholics from Protestant England.

America was indeed founded by bible-believing Christians and based on Christian principles. When they founded this country, the Founding Fathers envisioned a government that would promote and encourage Christianity.


Mother of 4: Leave it halD to make a

rude and condescending comment such as "LMAO really?"

So very typical of the limited left... who, by the way are usually historically challeneged anyway... (see below....)



Mother of 4
"There is no such thing as "secular" Christmas. "

LMAO really? What would you call a christmas tree? That is secular with origins in pagan rituals and (gasp!) fertility symbols.

and as far as the only December Holy Day you stole that date from the pagans.

Enough of that in any case. There is no "war on christmas" just please keep it out of public property and funds and stop trying to find yet another "issue" that will distract people from the country's real problems and divide them further... Christian? I find that difficult to believe observing the behavior ....

lilly
I'm with you! I have always before said 'Merry Christmas.' Now I don't want to, because it identifies me with all the rude jerks who are wishing people a Merry Christmas not out of good cheer, but as an act of aggression.

I have quite a few Muslim, Jewish, and Hindu friends and coworkers--none of them mind if I slip out a Merry Christmas. I do pay special attention to when the Jewish High Holy Days, Eid and Divali are, because it's just nice and respectful to recognize other people's holidays. I wonder how many of the people who think they are being oppressed if the whole world doesn't celebrate their holiday the way they wanted have ever bothered to wish someone a joyful Eid or a good Divali.

Farmer's Wife: I'm with you!

It's amazing to me that people choose to be “offended” and make such a big negative deal out of something that should be celebrated and shared.

As my children were growing up, we shared our Christmas and Easter holidays with many friends, some of whom were not Christian. They were invited to Christmas and Easter concerts at our parish, as well as to parties, and holiday dinners, and they usually attended.

Christmas Eve was especially exciting... our non-Christian friends would have our very English Christmas Eve dinner with us, attend Mass, and open a gift... WE SHARED our holiday with them, and they looked forward to sharing our holiday with us!

We often shared Hanukah with our Jewish friends, and my children learned the songs, in Hebrew. It was a celebration, and my children looked forward to it every year.

And now that my children are grown, those memories are among the most cherished. AND today my children share holidays with their friends, just as they did growing up.

Separation of church and state was not an issue, and the word “offended” never entered anyone’s mind.



Santa's helpers?
Hey, she doesn't even mention the people who came up to an Orthodox Jew on a subway and said 'Merry Christmas' right into his face. And when he responded with a cheery 'And a Happy Chanukah to you', they beat the crap out of him.

Now THAT is defending Christmas, in the spirit of this country's increasingly bellicose conservative Christians.

Ah, conservatives, turning the season of good will toward men into another excuse to rant and rave and sow rancor.

Americans love a holiday....
Obviously Christmas means different things to different people. Christmas hasn't been just for Christians for as long as I can remember. It is a time to stop and take the time to acknowledge the special people in your life, be a little kinder and a little happier, to ease up on everyday business.

I am not offended if someone wants to say "Happy Holidays" to me, just as I don't worry about wishing others a "Merry Christmas". There is no hidden agenda or meaning, just an expression of good will from me to you. With that I, wish all of you a very Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year!

Poor misguided lilly is at it again…

“Right-wingers love to say they are "pushing back" but fail to realize that, by politicizing the season, they cause a backlash.”

Limited lilly seems to have missed the point that this “pushing back” started ONLY when the ACLU started their campaign to secularize Christmas… that is, to remove any and all religious association with the holiday.

Had the ACLU and the liberals kept out of it, and left things alone, none of this would be a issue AT ALL!

“… motivated by bitterness and vindictiveness?” One of limited lilly’s more uninformed comments. Since when is standing up for one’s rights to celebrate holidays as it has been celebrated for years and years equate with “bitterness and vindictiveness?”

It seems to me that those who are actually motivated and consumed with bitterness and vindictiveness are the ones who just CANNOT sit back and be happy for those who are celebrating their RELIGIOUS holidays.


Mother of 4 re "Get Out of My Holiday"
It has been customary for fifty years that I personally know of, and probably longer than that, for Jewish and secular nurses, doctors, ambulance drivers, and other medical personnel to volunteer to work on Christmas so Christians can have the day off.

In any case your suggestion of withholding seasonal benefits from all but professed Christians is ridiculous and vindictive. Students have no control over the school holiday calendar. Sitting out the office party would be an anti-career move, also unfriendly. Accepting a neighbor's invitation to a party doesn't require sharing his religious beliefs, just warmth toward the neighbors. Do you personally vet your friends for their religious background before inviting them over for eggnog and fruitcake, always keeping mind the proviso that
"Only Christians Need Apply"?

Mother of 4, are you teaching those four children to slam doors in the face of all who do not share your family's religious beliefs?

the right winger made her do it.
Lilly says that she used to day Merry Christmas, and used to send out religious cards, but no more as she doesn't want to appear to be forced into doing so by the right wing...

So instead she admits she was forced into not doing it by the right wing.

Guess she is just easily manipulated.

the Poem made a mistake
Loved the article. Agreed with the ratings. But the end poem slammed a company that didn't deserve it.

Starbucks.

They sell CHRISTMAS blend coffee. You may request Holiday bags, but the displays, the people, the music the atmosphere is CHRISTMAS...


Down With Bill O'Reilly
I am a liberal Democrat who has been cheerfully saying "Merry Christmas" for nearly 80 years, but now if I say it I sound as if I am supporting Bill O'Reilly so I have started saying "Have a nice holiday" instead. Many times in the past I have sent out Christmas cards with religious pictures on them, but now I would not do so because I would appear to sympathize with the highly politicized right-wing effort to Christianize our public life. When I went to buy stamps at the post office the lady asked me if I wanted the ones with the Nativity scene on them and my shout of "NO!" was immediate and instinctive---five years ago I would have accepted Nativity stamps without question as part of the Christmas tradition. I feel like a European right after World War II who must be careful at all times never to be heard speaking German.

Right-wingers love to say they are "pushing back" but fail to realize that, by politicizing the season, they cause a backlash. It seems that in all they do they are motivated by bitterness and vindictiveness.

Savage 99
It's all about being PC.

Liberals love anything of a secular nature. They hate relgiion and take great exception to Christians. Most Americans celebrate Christmas. It's traditional!

That's the rub about Christmas from a large group of people who are what? Conservatives? Of course, not! But secular liberals love the "Winter Holiday" crap. They love making sure the "Moon Worshipers" are part of the "Festive Holiday Season" and the "Stone Worshipers" are happy during "Winter Fest Fun Time".

The radical, liberal-left sees Christmas as part of traditional values in America. The mere thought of "traditional values" makes them furious. It's enough to make them hold off putting their "Holiday Tree" up.

To Savage 99 and all TH Readers and Writers......

MERRY CHRISTMAS!


Audi...
...people voted with their feet in the old days.In the early days of this country,in New England,the descendants of the pilgrims did not celebrate Christmas.In fact,it was banned in the very early days.But as more and more Christians settled in New England,people simply kept their kids out of school for a week or two during the season.They ended up with paying a teacher and heating a building for a couple of weeks,and then having to go through all the lessons again when the Christian kids came back after the New Year.The government finally gave up and simply shut down the schools for the holidays.

When you have a large majority of one religion,one way or another this will be reflected by the government,no matter what the religion is,Christian,Jewish,or Muslim,or pagan for that matter.The majority will eventually win.

The end of the book Revelations -- read
And Chrysler Corp., recently purchased from Daimler-Benz, just announced to workers it is functionally BANKRUPT.

AudiR10
Just what is driving these idiots? Ramadan and Yom Kippur do not scare me. Statues of Krishna in a cafe run by a Hindu do not offend me. Just what is it these "quivering lipped" whackjobs are afraid of? A theocracy maybe? Merry Christmas. There, any body hurting? Some people need to get a life. I swear its this easy affluence that is to blame. When some people have time from scratching out a meager living on their hands, their brain just sails off into wuwuland.

In Kanukistan
An elementary school in Ottawa (our capital) tried to remove the word Christmas from the secular carol Silver Bells, replacing it with *A Festive Day* which does not even fit the music. Word got out, a local radio station broadcast their telephone number, and they were overwhelmed with ridicule and condemnation, much to their shock and dismay. Typical Canadians are weak willed and limp-spined and just drag their feet, drop their heads, and shuffle along. This time they did not.

The school did not precisely give in; they substituted Frosty The Snowman for the mutilated carol, and forbade the parents and every outsider from attending the concert. But the principal, a quivering lipped Mommy, said that she thought it was terrible that TheChildren were subjected to such animosity *Not in the spirit of The Season.*

Um, Madam, what season would that be? She cannot bring herself to say the word. She burst into tears instead.

7Sticks
The question of Jesus's skin tone is irrelevant. Yes being from a middle eastern country with a primarily desert climate he may have been dark skinned. Many of the pictures of Jesus we see today are based upon paintings done in the Middle Ages by white Europeans so their artistry was probably biased towards fairer skin. But so what? The only thing that matters is that He is the Son of God and our Savior and should be the reason we celebrate this time of year. His appearance is unimportant and all who accept him will rejoice at his return regardless of what he looks like. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

By the way
They can add JC Whitney to the Grinch list, I just sent them an email to the effect that if they can't be bothered to call Christmas by its proper name I would be buying any "Holiday gifts for the working man" that I intended to buy elsewhere.

Get a grip
7sticks, if people don't start standing up for their religion soon their religion will be banned. If they aren't interested enough or religious enough the tide of PC will swamp both them and their religion as well as all their Holy Days.

"First they came for the Communists,
- but I was not a communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists,
- but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews,
- but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." -Pastor Martin Niemöller

Mother of 4
Mother of 4 writes: Friday, December, 21, 2007 9:12 PM

"Get Out of My Holiday"

This father of five would like in - what's for dinner? ;-)

Take A Stand Against Bullies
You just have to ask yourself, "What do I do when a blowhard like Bill O'Reilly says 'Anybody who is caught denigrating the Christmas holiday should and will be held accountable. That's not a threat, that's a promise.'? What about Catholic League dictator Bill Don-Of-Puke's claim that he's waging a war against 'multicultural facists'?" You realize you have to do what is right and stand up for yourself against bullies, whether it's Bill O'Reilly or Bill Don-Of-Puke. It may not seem politically correct, but it works in making your voice heard. In the immortal words of Samuel L. Jackson, "Enough Is Enough! I've had it with these mother(expletive) snakes on this mother(expletive) plane!"

Get Out of My Holiday
Anyone who wants parties, holiday (derived from Holy Day) foods, time off, and presents had better be acknowledging the God whose birth is the occasion for these celebrations.

There is no such thing as "secular" Christmas.

If you won't acknowledge my God then get out of my holiday. Return any presents you are given, volunteer to work on Dec 25 at your regular rate of pay, refuse all invitations to Christmas celebrations, and refuse all of the special foods associated with this Holy Day.

If you won't do that then you are the lowest form of hypocrite.

Don't Get Cute, CMI...
Isn't it a little childish to resort to name-calling and hijnks like a Grinch-O-Meter when you could just be spending time with friends and family, singing Christmas carols or hanging Christmas ornaments or sipping hot chocolate in front of a fireplace? Oh well, all the more myrth to make fun of the looney demagauges and tinfoil-wearing loondogs who believe in this so-called "War On Christmas". This kind of nonsense can only be cooked up by people who also believe in a so-called North American Union or that the Holocaust was a myth. They're pathetic losers who have less credibility than someone who might make the claim that Jesus Christ was black (Since the Southern Mediterranean region in which Bethlahem is located has unseasonably warm winters, it's not really that inconceivable that Jesus may have had some Nubian features.)

P.S.: The word is "f***", not f-word. I'm getting sick and tired of people referring to that word as "f-word" or "f-bomb". I just hate those cliches. Is it going to kill anyone to refer to that word as long as it's not used in context? The Republican FCC chairman did.

Christmas defending does work
Target and WalMart have re-evaluated their advertising over the last two years, Sears, also, and the banning of Salvation Army campaigners also brought strong positive response in keeping tradition.

"Holiday" itself is an elision of "holy day." and the ONLY holy day in Dec. is Christmas. My Jewish friends have told me their holy days fall in Sept./Oct, Yom Kippur, not Chanukah. Kwanza was invented by CA prisoners in the 70s and isn't any more legitimate as a holiday than Seinfeld's Festivus.

THE HOLY DAY THAT IS CELEBRATED IN DECEMBER IS CHRISTMAS.

The truth is these "one complainers" may be ACLU members who've been invited to pretend they are disinterested citizens who are "offended." Former Jersey City Mayor Bret Schundler won a case over a nativity scenes by proving the offended protestor was really an ACLU shill who was specifically solicited to bring objection.

Considering Jews are 2% of the population, Muslins are less than 1% of the population, and other faiths/philosophies also aren't in the 1 digit range, who are the people who are offended?

I am offended by bores and cads using the f-word three times in every sentence, but the idiot Sup. Ct. (Cohen 1972) said the f-word has First Amendent protection. But a creche doesn't? It should be protected by the freedom of religion clause.

And FOR THE LAST TIME, a "Christas tree" is a DECORATION, and red and green are DECORATIONS, and Santa Claus, Rudolph, and Frosty are all secular creatures. NONE are symbols of Christianity or the religious observance of Christmas. And for the airports and arcades that put up white painted trees and supposedly avoid the onus of a Christmas tree, they are the same thing and NEITHER IS RELIGIOUS.

Those people who are offended should identify themselves with black armbands so no one should send them a card, or a gift, or a wish

Hollywood Parade
In fairness, I understand that the only reason for the name change was that the City of Hollywood had legal right to the name "Hollywood Christmas Parade".

So the Grinch Award should actually be presented to the Hollywood City Council (or whomever is responsible for holding the trademark). After all, if you're not interested in hosting the parade anymore, what the h*ll do you need the name for?
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