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Sunday, October 28, 2007
Kevin McCullough :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama's Abortion
by Kevin McCullough
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Barack Obama is facing his own version of Sophie's Choice. He is going to commit a constituency abortion in the coming days. But who will it be? The black evangelical church goers he continues to try to fool? Or the radical homosexual activist mafia who has thus far funded his presidential campaign? It's a situation of his own poor judgment and one that is likely to throw a major wrench into his efforts to win the Democratic nomination for President.

It didn't have to be this way...

A number of weeks ago Barack Obama began barnstorming black and mega churches, talking the very close talk to actual Christianity without actually ever admitting to any of it. His vapid remarks about his vague faith were enough to appease the hyped up masses. No mention of his own actual conversion to the Christianity of the scriptures, only a lot of references to his home church in Chicago, (where Dr. Jeremiah Wright will be as likely to drop the "f-word" as he will be to quote from a scriptural text,) his story of working with churches to achieve some community project funding, an "Amen to Rick Warren" for letting him share the gospel of solving AIDS by telling Africans to fornicate all the more - but using a small piece of plastic as their Savior, and of course advancing his crusade to extend the inner city genocide of black children all under the code of "choice."

Like I said, not a whole lot of Biblical Christianity wrapped into the stump speech.

His get out the "Gospel Vote" strategy is one way he plans to make headway against Hillary, who herself has been known on more than one occasion to fake - among other things - a "hallelujah" while being the only pasty worshiper in a church auditorium full of energy. If Obama can corner the market on black voters - then Hillary's chances begin to spiral and her otherwise flimsy persona just shreds to pieces.

Which is why this week took such an interesting turn…

Barack Obama invited Grammy winning gospel artist Pastor Donnie McClurkin to headline a series of concerts that would do two things - raise awareness of the African AIDS crisis, and the much more important part - raise some money for Presidential Candidate Barack Obama.

Almost immediately the radical homosexuals that had been among the largest donor groups to the Obama campaign lost it. Press releases were sent, press conferences were held, the envelope pushing homosexual bloggers picked up on it - and within minutes demands were being made to drop McClurkin from the concert.

But why?

Simply put - Pastor Donnie McClurkin is an anathema to the radical homosexual lobby. Not his message - but him personally, his life, his own experience.

When Donnie was eight, he has related many times, an older man began to abuse him. That abuse caused Donnie to wander for years and to wonder about who he was. He practiced homosexual behavior and lifestyle early on, and then something changed. His own story of realizing that he was sinning in the choices he made brought him to the path that God had for him all along - to really know Christ as Savior, to trust him with all that was within him, and to even be able to have this "curse" be removed from his life.

McClurkin now pastors a church on Long Island, New York that is busy about the Kingdom business. And one aspect among many of what they offer is help for those who are hurt by the behavior and indoctrination of homosexuality. Many have found, and are finding healing - through God, better choices, and the love and support that only Christians offer.

THAT is what so offends the radical homosexuals who are funding the Obama campaign.

So much so that Obama came out a day later to repudiate McClurkin, his beliefs, his experience, and his ministry. (But he still wants him to sing, 'cause we gotta raise the money for the campaign.)

To add insult to injury Obama then decided to invite an openly homosexual white "minister" to say a few words. Even openly homosexual black activists from the Clinton administration called this decision disastrous. It is seen as offensive to the large majority of African Americans who will attend a "gospel" concert.

Obama is now at the crossroads, having rhetorically thrown Pastor McClurkin under the bus - while pragmatically holding him to his contracted agreement to appear (gotta raise the money), he has most likely made his choice - offend the black Christians and lose the votes rather than offend the rabid homosexual activists and lose the money.

What IS clear however - when Obama's "Christianity" was at odds with the "love of money" - Obama chose what the scripture terms "the root of all evil."

And his people said, "Glory eff'in Hallelujah!"

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About The Author
Kevin McCullough is the nationally syndicated host of "'Xtreme' Radio and columnist based in New York. He blogs at www.muscleheadrevolution.com. His second book "The Kind Of MAN Every Man SHOULD Be" is in stores now.

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Once Again... Slick Talk Means Zero
What do we remember about President Bush in his early years? We remember that he stumbles all over himself when speaking in public. Quite a contrast to more "polished" speakers.

Barack Obama is one of those smooth-flowing talkers who can charm the pants off a room full of elderly nuns. Bill Clinton had this gift as well, and he has used it, and abused it until I am personally blue in the face (actually due to excessive vomiting).

These are two peas in a pod. They say what they say with such graceful eloquence, but in the end the words they spoke are nothing but hollow shells. Sort of like those Cicada bugs that leave their dried up skins hanging on trees. They look like bugs, but they are empty and in the grand scheme, are completely worthless.

Someone else is running, who learned this skill from Master Bill..., namely Mrs. Bill. Also a prime example of empty, hollow, nothingness.

Good article.

Non-radical gays aren't too happy either
Barack is an idiot, and I believe everything you said about his convenient (if extremely vague) Christianity is true. However, you make it sound like only radical gay activists are upset about his decision to tour with Donnie McClurkin. You also make it sound like poor sweet Donnie just wants to offer hope to the troubled, when in fact he preaches that all homosexuals need to be cured. If he was able to overcome his homosexual tendencies and find peace as a straight man, more power to him. If he wants to counsel others that question their orientation, again, more power to him. But he keeps saying that all gays and lesbians need to stifle their feelings and pretend to be straight. And that bothers me. I don't have a major problem with being gay. I don't even have a minor problem with it. If Donnie doesn't want to live a "homosexual lifestyle" (whatever that is), I applaud him. But Donnie doesn't know me and I resent the fact that he tells people I'm evil because I like men instead of women.

Tommy Marx - please consider...


Tommy Marx writes: “You also make it sound like poor sweet Donnie just wants to offer hope to the troubled, when in fact he preaches that all homosexuals need to be cured.”


I don’t know much about Mr. McClurkin, but according to God’s Word in the Bible, everyone who engages in homosexual conduct is committing a type of sin. Like most other sins, if it becomes habitual it becomes very difficult to stop, and he or she will often go to great lengths to rationalize, excuse or otherwise justify the behavior.


According to God’s Word in the Bible, such a person has a sin problem, and it’s serious, and it does need to be cured.


If Mr. McClurkin’s position is Scriptural (as it seems to be), then not only is Mr. McClurkin absolutely right in his diagnosis, it also sounds like he is correctly pointing people to the one and only cure.



~~~~~~~



Tommy Marx writes: “But he keeps saying that all gays and lesbians need to stifle their feelings and pretend to be straight.”


I don’t think that is likely to be an accurate representation or paraphrase of Mr. McClurkin’s actual words.



~~~~~~~



Tommy Marx writes: “And that bothers me.”


The truth of God’s Word in the Bible almost ALWAYS bothers people who are involved in sin, and I think that is by design. It helps us to recognize our sin, and tells us what to do about it to be free from it. If a person does not understand their condition or does not want to be free from their sin, then it is highly predictable that he or she will resent the offer of the cure for their sin problem.



~~~~~~~



Tommy Marx writes: “But Donnie doesn't know me and I resent the fact that he tells people I'm evil because I like men instead of women.”


I would be surprised if Mr. McClurkin is telling anyone that homosexuals are evil people, but anyone who is involved in habitual or ongoing sin does have a very real problem, because the sin they are committing is evil, and sin has consequences.


Homos vs Christians
It sure looks like this board is going to be filled by Sunday evening with a lot of scripture and bigotry accusations.

The conflict is really generated by the homos who want their lifestyle and agenda legitimized by law - they seem to think they can regulate peoples views, attitudes, associations and religious convictions.

The Christians have had to endure having their symbols and rituals driven from the public square, endure gov't financed ridicule and discrimination and have their simple, private observances mocked and banned - while the lib culture is bending over backwards to accomodate burka wearing, foot washing and mecca praying Islamists.

The point is that if the homos were anywhere near as tolerant as the Christians, there wouldn't be any conflict. There's bigotry all right and the homos are largely responsible for it.

Riding two horses
My Sainted Southern Granny used to say that you cannot ride two horses at the same time. Obama, who is not even qualified to run for Student Council President at the Catholic girls high school where I attended in the early sixties, is just about to find that out.

Perhaps he should have read that scripture that begins *Choose Ye This Day Whom You Will Serve* -- and pay attention to the one that says you cannot serve both God and Money. (If he cannot read, he could pick that one up from Clint Eastwoods excellent Scary Cowboy Movie, *Pale Rider*.)

Fortunately, Obama is a nitwit and has less chance than anyone north of Ron Paul to be nominated for the Big Show. But I will pray that he wakes up and gets a clue before he destroys his immortal soul.

Tommy Marx
Get rid of the sin in your life and you will be happier. Homosexuality isn't what God planned for you. Remember: with God all things are possible. You can stop living your sinful lifestyle if you ask Him for help.

Obama gooded up
Obama screwed up. The issue of GLBT is a difficult one to discuss, but must done.

It is too bad radio big mouths like Ken McCullough, evangelicals and other mega-hate organizations (Family Research Council, Concerned Women of America, American Family Association,The Eagle Forum, etal) fund their coffers by demeaning members of the GLBT community. Perhaps they all need to reed what the former anti-gay columnist, Joe R. Murray, has to say about his former employer, the American Family Association.

I would suggest that you all read what the American Medical Community has to say about he subject of homosexuality.

grubby07
You are quite correct. As a commitment to homosexuality is satanic, of course homosexuals (puppets of satan) are at war with Christians.

and you
expected what from this empty suit

hey swampgas
how about all the hate from the glbt community. did you forget all the hate they spew about God and his people. no, your just a liberal bigot from hell(figuratively). but still bent on destroying this once great country because of your "all about me" philosophy. go take a long walk off a short pier.

Obama had an abortion!?
Good lord, I knew that side of the aisle was weird, but this takes the cake. Who was the father?

Well, Duh
>Obama, who is not even qualified to run for Student Council President at the Catholic girls high school where I attended in the early sixties<

Since Obama is neither female, nor Catholic, this statement ranks high on the typing-before-thinking meter.

As for running for President, he satisfies the age and birth qualifications, which are the only qualifications.

Oh
I thought Obama was an abortion, a partial birth one that lived. My bad.

OBAMA'S CHOICE

.....Obama wants the black vote ...Obama wants the gay vote ...so he hooks up with a black preacher who used to practice homo-sexualality and now claims that gays can become straight just by changing their behavior? ...

.....Who is directing his campaign ...Hillary? ...forget this loser he is just comic relief for the Clintons .....COLOSSUS

Maybe Obama should invite
Charlene Cothran to his shin-dig. She spoke at a recent http://www.americansfortruth.com banquet. She's black, a former lesbian, and she ran a popular gay-black magazine, Venus, before she learned God's truth.

anti-socialist
While I agree that homosexuality is sinful, I think that it is incredibly offensive to refer to gays as "puppets of Satan". Jesus had far harsher words for the self-righteous people who went around condemning people than he ever had for a sexual sinner.

We have all been puppets of Satan (also known as "the accuser") at one time or another, so lets see a little humility. "Mercy triumphs over judgment"- James 2:13

This may be off topic
just a bit, but listen and please understand what I'm saying. The white community has the skin heads, the black community has the pathetic panthers, the gay community has the parading whackos, the brown community currently has the 'this is our country and we're taking it back' types, and the asian community has its insular segments who believe 'to hell with everybody', and the entire religious community has its 'we're right and everybody else is wrong' groups. Did I miss anybody?

I want to fix the ever present divide between all of these communities. There is no religious conotation intended. Treat others as you wish to be treated. Just think, that would even end the reasons for road rage. You can thank me now, or thank me later.

To Chopper John
When the discussion gets going on this board about homosexuality, it gets rather horrid.

Read this sermon by Kathlyn James and another article by exgaywatch:
http://www.jesusmcc.org/resource/rev_james.html

Agapepress states consequences of homosexual sin “more grievous” than other sins
http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2005/11/agapepress-stat/


Kevin is Clueless
"Barack Obama is facing his own version of Sophie's Choice. He is going to commit a constituency abortion in the coming days. But who will it be? The black evangelical church goers he continues to try to fool? Or the radical homosexual activist mafia who has thus far funded his presidential campaign?"

One, judging a man as trying to fool his church is totally unchristian and he should know this if he read the bible.

Two, Where is proof that his campaign is totally funded by the homosexual activists? Also, being gay doesn't make you a bad Christian, but not following the tenets of Christianity does.

Swampfox - GBLT isn't hard to discuss...


Swampfox: “Obama screwed up. The issue of GLBT is a difficult one to discuss, but must done.”


It’s easy to discuss, we can even use the same English language we use to discuss everything else.


The only thing “hard” about it is that honest people know the GBLT’s will use every intellectually dishonest tactic in the book to make their case, and when that fails, they’ll accuse those who oppose them of bigotry and prejudice, and when that is also shown to be intellectually dishonest, they’ll resort to profanity and righteous indignation.


Sometimes the order changes, but if history is any indicator of future performance, you or someone like you will help me to prove my point by way of demonstration.



~~~



Swampfox: “It is too bad radio big mouths like Ken McCullough, evangelicals and other mega-hate organizations (Family Research Council, Concerned Women of America, American Family Association,The Eagle Forum, etal) fund their coffers by demeaning members of the GLBT community.”


The “who started it” aspect, while largely irrelevant, is often hotly contested. The written nature of this forum has now recorded who first stooped to the level of personal attack.



~~~



Swampfox: “Perhaps they all need to reed what the former anti-gay columnist, Joe R. Murray, has to say about his former employer, the American Family Association.”


Is Joe R. Murray your highest authority in GBLT matters?



~~~



Swampfox: “I would suggest that you all read what the American Medical Community has to say about he subject of homosexuality.”


You have described yourself elsewhere as both a Christian and a member of the Episcopal Church.


Until or unless you declare otherwise, God’s Word in the Bible is your highest Authority.


I would suggest that you read what God’s Word in the Bible has to say about the subject of homosexuality, and if you would like to discuss this further after doing so, I look forward to that discussion.

The real issue
is that the guy is just making mistakes because he's inexperienced. Unfortunately for him, his rise to stardom was premature, and he's therefore making his mistakes in a very visible, public way, on the national scene. Had he punched his ticket, he'd have made his naive mistakes in some less public way.
He's not ready for prime time.

TheSun1
Obama has made more mistakes than this one. The Democrats will probably nominate Hillary. Gulliani will probably be the Republican nominee. Neither one will pander to the Kevin McCullough's and James Dobson's on the issue of gay rights.

"Porky's" 1982 movie
BloodABoilin writes, "If anonymous sex in public bathrooms, anal sex, leathermen, and glory-holes aren't demeaning...then I don't know what is." This sounds like the 1982 hit movie "Porky's", and, it is not about gays/lesbians.

taft
your the one thats clueless. as you are not a christian you have no idea what is unchristian. and he doesn't have to fool his church into thinking he is christian. seeing as his church is racist it can't be a christian church so your point is moot.

You're not a Christian, unless....
You're not a Christian, unless you think exactly like me.............for some reason, that doesn't sound like the Christ I know.

Swamp-mind
There isn't any obfuscation and equivocation in the bible, particularly the Old Testament, much as you'd like there to be. And in the New Testament, despite Christ's admonitions to love, there's nothing to support the homo agenda.

This is why you and your ilk try so hard to 'reinterpret' and 'negate' the clear admonishments of the NT scriptures. Give it a break: you'll find no more support for homo behavior in religion - ANY religion including Islam - than you'll find in science.

As a matter of fact, all you'll find is disease, emotional distress, mental illness...and probably death.

I like men too, but not in your perverted way.

Anti-Socialist wrote
" As a commitment to homosexuality is satanic, of course homosexuals (puppets of satan) are at war with Christians."

LOL. Tell me, anti, where does homosexuality rate on the Sin-O-Meter scale? Is it above or below murder? stealing? Blasphemy?

Where do you fall on the scale?


Kevin McCullough
Is a poster boy for the reasons that the religious right is in disarray and has lost it's hold on any meaningful political influence. He is archaic, out-of-touch, and his condescending, you're-all-going-to-hell philosophy is tired and no longer relevant.

Swampfox - Fallacious arguments (again)


Swampfox writes: “You're not a Christian, unless you think exactly like me.......”


This is an excellent example of a typically fallacious argument tactic. No one has said anything about not being a Christian unless you think exactly like someone else. If anyone has said such a thing, then please copy and paste it here, in quotes, for everyone to see.


Otherwise, you have simply created a straw-man, with a dangling rhetorically implied warning that nobody ought to “judge” you for wandering off into the tall grass. Contrary to your apparent perception, I am not your enemy, and I have an obligation to point you back to God’s Word (cf. 2 Timothy 3:16, et al).


According to God’s Word in the Bible, the truth is that we’re not Christians unless He determines we are:


“For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.” (2 Corinthians 10:18, KJV)


There are many passages where God’s Word describes who belongs to Him, here is one affirmative example:

“And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.” (Luke 8:21, KJV)


Here is one negative example:

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46, KJV)


Clearly, adhering faithfully to God’s Word is a critical aspect of being a Christian. This is also consistent with the doctrine of the Episcopal Church, is it not?



~~~



Swampfox writes: “for some reason, that doesn't sound like the Christ I know.”


More importantly, it doesn’t sound like Christ of the Bible.

Fortunately, we don’t need to rely on your subjective knowledge of Christ, because His Word has been carefully recorded and preserved for all of us, to set us right when we are wrong.


Have you had a chance to read what God’s Word in the Bible has to say about the subject of homosexuality yet?



To gubby07
Grubby07 writes, "Give it a break: you'll find no more support for homo behavior in religion - ANY religion including Islam - than you'll find in science."

I would hope that you would do the following:

Google "Christian Gays", then read, just some of the responses.

Go to the following link and read about Iran executing two gay teenagers.......the mad mullahs of Iran have executed around 4,000 gays/lesbians:

http://www.ordoesitexplode.com/me/2005/09/iranian_teenage.h tml

As for support in science to to the following site:

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/justthefacts.html

As for the emotional distress, yes, there is emotional distress for anyone who finds themselves GLBT in such a hostile world that you want. I have found myself there

Can you tell me any major candidate for the President this year that espouses your depth of hate and loathing for the GLBT community? You would probably rather associate with a mass murderer than a member of the GLBT community.

Tonight I will say a prayer for you.

If it is genetic...
If homosexuality is ever determined to be genetic, my guess is that all the fundementalist Christians would be lined up at their doctor's office for "the" test...........and, if it was positive they would proceed to their abortion doctor.

Swampfox does it again. Twice!
First, we have: "Obama has made more mistakes than this one. The Democrats will probably nominate Hillary. Gulliani will probably be the Republican nominee. Neither one will pander to the Kevin McCullough's and James Dobson's on the issue of gay rights."

And, of course, irrespective of the choice of the Democratic party, it will better than the Republican nominee. On this issue, that is.

Then swampfox writes: "If homosexuality is ever determined to be genetic, my guess is that all the fundementalist Christians would be lined up at their doctor's office for "the" test........... and, if it was positive they would proceed to their abortion doctor."

Or would they teach the poor kid to hate himself? Oh! Wait! They do that already.

sorry swampgas
but you don't know Jesus.

and touj
the bible talks about people like you. your itchy ears will be told exactly what you want to hear so you can justify your "all about me" philosophy. i'll work on the du but not on townhall.

and mellor
is such a dirtbag. he hates himself cus he's homosexual so everybody has to hate themselves so he can feel better about his birth defect.

Scott, you're acting like a Democrat
Scott writes: Sunday, October, 28, 2007 9:27 PM
Swampfox - Fallacious arguments (again)

In your reply to Swampfox pasted above, you do exactly what Democrats/Liberals do to make their cases of slander where none exists.
The example of how they tried to slander Rush with the "phony soldiers" smear is the best example I can think of.

Swmpfoxes original post was one thought, not two separate ones.

Swampfox writes: Sunday, October, 28, 2007 7:56 PM
You're not a Christian, unless....
You're not a Christian, unless you think exactly like me.............for some reason, that doesn't sound like the Christ I know.

And HE is right. It isn't the Christ we're taught about in Church, or the Bible.
Or did you forget the lessons of the prostitue that all the "righteous" wanted to stone and how when Christ said, "He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her"
John 8:7(or better yet, 1-11) they all hung their heads in shame and left.

NOT ONE OF YOU in this forum is fit to pass judgement on myself, Swampfox, or any other gay person here. So take your lectures and Bible thumping, and put them where your heads are.

MellorSJ2, you're just as bad
YOU DARE to say that Republicans/Conservatives are hateful to gays??

Then swampfox writes: "If homosexuality is ever determined to be genetic, my guess is that all the fundementalist Christians would be lined up at their doctor's office for "the" test........... and, if it was positive they would proceed to their abortion doctor."

Or would they teach the poor kid to hate himself? Oh! Wait! They do that already.


Have YOU, EVER, been on the receiving end of some of the hateful things that DEMOCRATS/LIBERALS say to gays that they find out to be Repbulicans or Conservatives?
Have YOU ever been outed in public by a fellow gay person because he's a Dem/Lib and he feels that it's his "RIGHT" to ut you because you don't follow the party line that insists you have to be a Democrat or Liberal if you're gay?

I suspect not in both cases. The things MOST Republicans and/or Conservatives say about gays ARE NOTHING compared to some of the things I've been called, or had done to me because I am gay and dare to claim to be a Republican.
I can't speak for Swampfox, but I suspect that he too has suffered some of these things at one time or another.

SO DON'T make a blanket statement that only Republicans hate gays.

ANd Finally, to "TruthSeeker"
WHO THE HELL ARE YOU to tell anyone else what they are or who/what they know.
YOU, as I said in my post to Scott, are not free of sin yourself, so you are in NO POSITION to pass judgement on, or condmen, anyone.

ONLY GOD has that right and duty, and I will stand before him on that day and face him bravely knowing that HE, AND ONLY HE, has the right to judge me. And I will accept HIS judgement.

TAKE YOURS AND SHOVE IT!!

Take a breath
Another Gay Conservative writes: "Have YOU, EVER, been on the receiving end of some of the hateful things that DEMOCRATS/LIBERALS say to gays that they find out to be Repbulicans or Conservatives?"

I'm afraid I have. It was not a pleasant experience at all.

"Have YOU ever been outed in public by a fellow gay person because he's a Dem/Lib and he feels that it's his "RIGHT" to out you because you don't follow the party line that insists you have to be a Democrat or Liberal if you're gay?"

Happily, that has never happened to me. There is no excuse for it.

"The things MOST Republicans and/or Conservatives say about gays ARE NOTHING compared to some of the things I've been called, or had done to me because I am gay and dare to claim to be a Republican."

I'm sorry to hear that, though that has not been my experience, but then I don't claim to be a Republican. I am a Libertarian, like Ron Paul.

"SO DON'T make a blanket statement that only Republicans hate gays."

I believe what I said was: "And, of course, irrespective of the choice of the Democratic party, it will better than the Republican nominee. On this issue, that is."

I stick by that statement, though I'll agree that, in the end, neither party will make much difference.

There are two problems here. First, we have the tribalism perfected by Karl Rove, TownHall, and MoveOn. The second problem is that this tribalism leads to voters being taken for granted. Gay? You _have_ to vote for Democrats. Yet I disagree with 85% of their policies!

Between A black and A gay place
Please let us start with the fact that the black church in America is a total failure. Nothing positive happen's on a national scale to improve the quality of life in the economic depressed area's of the nation because of the black church. I don't agree that they are racist's. What is more important than being a good American or good christian is being black, period. I remember when alot af churches would put up pictures of a black Jesus and argue that Jesus is black, yeah him and sammy davis were the only two black jews. As a voter block I have to wonder what the black church going youth think when they hear the word of God and then watch thier pastor's and parent's vote for pro abortion, pro homosexuality, anti-law enforcement and you see why the big mess with nothing changing for the better. Obama is just the latest troll taking advantage of the situation. There is no such thing as a gay christian but their is such a thing as an unrepentant christian. And I think we can read the word of God and know where they are going.

Another Gay Conservative - Part 1

AGC: “Scott, you're acting like a Democrat”


Clearly your panties are all wadded up in a bunch over something you misunderstood, but to suggest, even jokingly, that I am “acting like a Democrat” is an insult to democrats that I could never have pulled off by myself, so good show on that account.



~~~



AGC: “In your reply to Swampfox pasted above, you do exactly what Democrats/Liberals do to make their cases of slander where none exists.”


No, I didn’t. I know where you think you’re going, but you're mistaken. Rest assured I have not engaged in their tactics.



~~~



AGC: “The example of how they tried to slander Rush with the "phony soldiers" smear is the best example I can think of.”


It’s a bad example, not applicable, and I’ll explain why.



~~~



AGC: “Swmpfoxes original post was one thought, not two separate ones.”


Agreed, and my comments in no way detracted from or misrepresented the whole of his thought as he intended it to be expressed. If it makes you happier, put both halves of his comment back together and read my posts as two different replies to the same quote. You will see that nothing changes.


I always break down a post in order to address each individual component, and to make it easy for the person I’m conversing with to offer a specific rebuttal if he or she chooses. I often break even single sentences down into two or more posts, if two different thoughts or points are being made.


Unlike the Dems who took Rush Limbaugh's comments out of context and portrayed them as if they had been said in a vacuum, I have done no such thing. Swampfox’s comments are entirely intact, and since he separated his own comments by (count ‘em) *thirteen periods*, I actually had to do less linguistic surgery than usual. I have replied to your post in exactly the same the way.


Go back and read it again, and you’ll see what I mean. You’ll get used to it if you keep at it for a while.


Another Gay Conservative - Part 2


Another Gay Conservative writes: “And HE is right. It isn't the Christ we're taught about in Church, or the Bible.”


No, he couldn’t be more wrong; he refers to a Christ he has apparently made up in his own head, one that cannot be found in the Bible, and now you’re joining him in his error.


I’m sure he’s grateful for the company, but you won’t be, once you realize the position he has (and now you have) chosen to defend.


I don’t know what they teach about Christ at your church, and you don’t know what they teach about Him where I worship, but if you want to talk about the Christ we read about in the Bible, that’s the direction I’d like to take this conversation.


Swampfox won’t go near that conversation with a ten-foot pole. He has a good reason for that, because he and I both know that he cannot reconcile or harmonize his beliefs regarding homosexual conduct with God’s Word in the Bible.


That’s going to be your problem too, but judging by your screen-name, you had that problem before you jumped in his foxhole.



Another Gay Conservative - Part 3


Another Gay Conservative writes: “Or did you forget the lessons of the prostitue that all the "righteous" wanted to stone and how when Christ said, "He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her" John 8:7(or better yet, 1-11) they all hung their heads in shame and left.”


No, I certainly did not forget, and I welcome the opportunity to reason from the Scriptures with you. If you believe the Bible contains the inspired Word of God as I do, I am confident we can arrive at a mutual understanding on this issue.


While you did make reference to the conclusion of your chosen passage (i.e., “or better yet, 1-11”), you seem to have forgotten the concluding verse.


If we read the ENTIRE passage, we will see that when the Lord said “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her” (John 8:7b, KJV), He did *NOT* follow up with anything approximating 'Let those of you who are living in sin keep right on truckin’'.


He said very plainly, “…go, and sin no more.” (John 8:11b, KJV)



The woman was caught in the act of the sexual sin of adultery (John 8:4), a type of fornication. It is the command to “sin no more” of verse 11 that is the point of focus here, because homosexual sex is fornication by definition, and fornication is sin (cf. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10). There is no way around it.



I realize you meant to turn this into an admonition not to “judge” other people, but that would have been (a misapplication of) Matthew chapter 7, so it wouldn’t have helped you anyway.


On the other hand, John chapter 8 completely destroys the common homosexual contention that ongoing homosexual fornication, i.e., continuing to live in that sin, is acceptable to the Lord.



It is not often that my would-be opponent sabotages his own cause so effectively, but I’ll take all the help I can get.



Another Gay Conservative - Part 4 of 4


AGC: “NOT ONE OF YOU in this forum is fit to pass judgement on myself, Swampfox, or any other gay person here.”


Correct, and I certainly was not and will not be passing judgment on anyone.


But regarding behavior, beliefs, practices, etc., Christians must discern right from wrong according to God’s Word, condemning and rebuking error and sin according to Scripture, while exhorting and encouraging righteous behavior and practices, again according to His Word.



~~~



AGC: “So take your lectures and Bible thumping, and put them where your heads are.”


I didn’t offer a lecture, but I do ask a lot of direct questions that homosexuals studiously avoid answering.


They’re good questions, many of them good Bible questions, so I’m going to keep asking them.


I didn’t “thump” you with the Bible, but you opened the door to discussing God’s Word when you kicked the legs out from under the homosexual pretense that living in continuing sin is an acceptable practice, which is clearly contradicted by the passage you chose from John chapter 8.


I don’t know if you call yourself a Christian or not, but Swampfox calls himself a Christian, and he also says he’s a member of the Episcopal Church. Unless I’m mistaken, the Episcopal Church still acknowledges that there is no greater Being than God, and God’s Word in the Bible is therefore the highest Authority in matters having to do with God.


If I am wrong about that, if the Episcopal Church no longer believes that God’s Word in the Bible is the highest Authority in matters of God, then I expect an Episcopalian will declare that and explain it.


As far as where my head is, it’s on my shoulders, and my Bible is by my side. If you are suggesting that either one is elsewhere, then please be very specific, and perhaps we’ll all learn more about what kind of person you are in the process, and the things you’re brave enough to say from the safety of your keyboard.


bad column/ bad decison by obama
The gay leadership in South Carolina had every right to ask Sen. Obama to remove Mr. McClurkin from this event. This had nothing to do with Gays trying to silence non gays, but more to do with McClurkin and his beliefs, and how they completely contradict Obama's campaign and message. McClurkin has called homosexuality a "gay curse" and that it is a sin. He represents intolerance and exclusion.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42982-2004Au g28.html

It's like Obama asking David Duke to speak at a political rally for African Americans. Honestly it's just stupid!

Obama's campaign is supposed to be one of inclusion and tolerance, and that's not what McClurkin represents. Why Mr. Obama would invite this bigot (yes I said it) to perform is beyond comprehension.

to gay conservative
i judged his words. meant to be hurtful to conservatives. i will not sit and take it anymore. and if you don't like it , you can take a long walk off a short pier.

and
i don't really care what you think.

FAVORLESS1
"Please let us start with the fact that the black church in America is a total failure. Nothing positive happens on a national scale to improve the quality of life in the economic depressed area's of the nation because of the black church"

You have no idea what you are talking about. And I can tell from your post that you have NEVER been to a black church, probably have very few black friends, and that you are completely ignorant blacks and our culture.

Black churches do plenty good! The church I attend runs free HIV testing, provides books to the local inner city high schools, and through its ministry has helped change the lives of many inner city youth who have been on a trail of hopelessness.

Anthony Thomas - For your consideration


Anthony Thomas writes: “This had nothing to do with Gays trying to silence non gays, but more to do with McClurkin and his beliefs, and how they completely contradict Obama's campaign and message.”


Part of Mr. Obama’s campaign message is that he apparently presents himself as a born-again Christian to some audiences.


Then (again, apparently) Mr. Obama condemns Christians for adhering to God’s Word in the Bible, and seemingly abandons God’s Word in order to embrace a group whose defining characteristic is one of living in a particular type of ongoing sin.


He can’t have it both ways, and that’s why it has rightly become a problem for him. That’s going to be the problem for any democrat (or Republican, for that matter) who tries the old “head-fake” with Christians.



~~~



Anthony Thomas writes: “McClurkin has called homosexuality a "gay curse" and that it is a sin.”


Do you say that homosexual conduct is NOT a sin?


Is that your position?



~~~



Anthony Thomas writes: “He represents intolerance and exclusion.”


I don’t know much about Mr. McClurkin, but in his capacity as a preacher, it sounds like he is representing God’s Word in the Bible on this subject.


If you can, please show me in the Bible where Jesus or His apostles condoned or “tolerated” any kind of sin or religious error.


If Mr. McClurkin is to faithfully fulfill his role of preaching the Word of God, should he not speak the Truth of God’s Word as the oracles of God (cf. 1 Peter 4:11)?


Or would you have him speak the words and wisdom of men, promoting worldly ways and things?


"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [4] And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." (2 Timothy 4:3-4, KJV)


Anthony Thomas - Not like that at all...


Anthony Thomas writes: “It's like Obama asking David Duke to speak at a political rally for African Americans. Honestly it's just stupid!”


No, it’s not like that at all, and since you seem like a decent fellow, I suspect you would not have said such a thing if you had taken the time to think it through a bit better.


David Duke has a history of being a well known racist and promoter of racism (I don’t know if he still is or not, but the baggage exists regardless). Mr. McClurkin, if I understand correctly, is speaking the truth of God’s Word on the subject of homosexuality.


If you would compare Mr. McClurkin to David Duke, and if Mr. McClurkin is only a messenger speaking what the Word of God in the Bible actually says, then what you are really doing is comparing God’s Word to David Duke, and I strongly suspect that is not your intention.



~~~



Anthony Thomas writes: “Obama's campaign is supposed to be one of inclusion and tolerance, and that's not what McClurkin represents.”


Again, if he represents himself as a born-again Christian, it is not possible for him to both serve Christ and embrace sin. From your next post I see that you attend a church, so I’m not sure why you are having such difficulty understanding the incompatibility and inconsistency of this situation.



~~~



Anthony Thomas writes: “Why Mr. Obama would invite this bigot (yes I said it) to perform is beyond comprehension.”


Why do you accuse someone who speaks the truth of God’s Word in the Bible of being a bigot?


I hope you will think very carefully before you answer this, because if you think this through, you are on the precipice of calling Jesus Christ a bigot, and I don’t think that’s really the side of the fence you want to end up on in this discussion.


It's funny that
no one pays attention to KM anymore.

Man, did he get his ash handed to him on TV the other night - I mean it was just bad. What a bluthering, redfaced buffoon.

It was emnarressing - but very, very satistfying to see him take such a hit

:)

True
Allen is right. Here we have a KMC column with a mere 52 posts, even with a title that contains the word 'abortion' and discussion about gays, ex-gays and religion.

All the hot buttons and no response! There is some justice.

allen and Mellor - It's an anomaly...


I know you're enjoying it guys, but I am confident Kevin's next column will prove that the unusually low response here is an anomaly.


I'm sure I'll see you then, same bat-time, same bat-channel ;-)



Mellor, Allen...
I actually think that the low number of comments can also be a demonstration of the rather air-tight seal the philosophical arguments present.

And Allen - what television appearance do you refer to - must have missed the one where "ash was handed to him."

It would be odd that you would be claiming to have seen KMC - when he has taken all time off of television to work on his second book slated for street release in the spring of 2008.

So enlighten us Allen - what appearance did you refer?

Air-tight seal
KMC writes, "I actually think that the low number of comments can also be a demonstration of the rather air-tight seal the philosophical arguments present." Really? I was heartened yesterday to learn that Fred Phelps and his church were successfully told to pay $11 million for their horrid behavior. I am sure the Mr. McCollough will have something negative to say about that outcome.

Swampfox-Thanks again for playing :wave:


Swampfox writes: "Air-tight seal"


I think the meaning of the term was apparently lost on you, Swampfox. This is ironic, considering it was some of your own positions and arguments that were hermetically sealed up and buried ;-)



~~~~~~~



KMC writes, "I actually think that the low number of comments can also be a demonstration of the rather air-tight seal the philosophical arguments present."


Swampfox writes: "Really? I was heartened yesterday to learn that Fred Phelps and his church were successfully told to pay $11 million for their horrid behavior.”


Regarding what may have happened yesterday with Fred Phelps, what can it POSSIBLY have to do with the debates that your side has consistently lost throughout this Thread?



~~~~~~~



Swampfox writes: "I am sure the Mr. McCollough will have something negative to say about that outcome."


You mean in support of it, maybe?


I don’t know anything about Fred Phelps besides what I’ve read around here on TH, but he sounds like a deeply troubled person with some serious hate issues.


I can’t imagine that KMC supports hate groups of any kind.


Why do you think he would?



Nah, just pulling your leg… I don’t mean to put you on the spot like that, I know you don’t have any answers ;-)



Thanks again for playing… :wave:


To Scott
My guess is that McCullough will be outraged at the suppression of Fred Phelps' free speech. McCollough is so misinformed about gays/lesbians that he wrote a crazy article about week or two ago that he says proves that homosexuals choose their sexuality. He is a nut. He calls himself Musclehead. I will agree with that his chosen nickname.

Hate is something that is thought. Just look at Phelps' church/family.

Swampfox - Re: learned behaviors


Hi Swampfox,



Swampfox writes: “My guess is that McCullough will be outraged at the suppression of Fred Phelps' free speech.”


The only thing I really know about Phelps and his group is what I’ve read about him here on TH, and I can’t imagine that ANY of the TH columnists would defend or support a group such as the one Fred Phelps appears to be the leader of.



~~~



Swampfox writes: “McCollough is so misinformed about gays/lesbians that he wrote a crazy article about week or two ago that he says proves that homosexuals choose their sexuality.”


I don’t think that makes him uninformed, I suspect he is well aware that many gay people claim they have no “choice” and have probably convinced themselves that they have no choice in the matter.


I didn’t read the article you are referring to, but there’s nothing “crazy” about challenging an unproven assertion that homosexuals do not “choose” their orientation in some way or at some point. If there were no legitimate questions on this subject, it would be a settled issue.



~~~



Swampfox writes: “Hate is something that is thought. Just look at Phelps' church/family.”


I’m guessing you meant “taught”, and I agree, hate is usually something that is either learned by observing the behavior of others who hate, or is taught in more direct ways.


The only exception I can think of at the moment would be an extremely negative encounter of some kind that could lead to hatred from a direct personal experience, but that has to be a pretty rare exception.



Thank you for the discussion Swampfox,


Scott

To Scott
Scott writes, "I didn’t read the article you are referring to, but there’s nothing “crazy” about challenging an unproven assertion that homosexuals do not “choose” their orientation in some way or at some point. If there were no legitimate questions on this subject, it would be a settled issue."

I would suggest that you read what the American Psychiatric Association has to say on homosexuality and on the possibility of change and the damage to the gay/lesbian. I have been there. I am homosexual and it is never going to change.

Swampfox - You CAN climb the mountain...


Swampfox: “I would suggest that you read what the American Psychiatric Association has to say on homosexuality and on the possibility of change and the damage to the gay/lesbian.”


You know that the American Psychiatric Association (APA) is not the highest Authority on this subject; God’s Word in the Bible is.


The APA publishes the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). It was not that long ago that homosexuality was officially listed as a Mental Disorder by this SAME American Psychiatric Association in their DSM.


Today it’s not. Ten years from now, it might be again.


The words of men change with the seasons (if not much more frequently), but the Word and Wisdom of God does not change; it is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.


I know you know this.



~~~



Swampfox: “I have been there. I am homosexual and it is never going to change.”


That depends entirely on you. If you believe you can’t do something, then you’re right, you can’t do it, because you won’t even try. If you say you can’t climb Mt. Everest, you’re right, and you never will.


But if you say you CAN climb Mt. Everest, THEN you’ve got a chance. It sets certain wheels in motion. You begin by talking to people who have climbed the mountain. You start preparing yourself, mentally and physically, doing the things a person needs to do in order to meet the challenge.


Does that guarantee you will get to the top of Everest on your first try?


No.


Maybe you’ll only get 3/4th’s up the mountain the first time, maybe only half-way.


But look how much further you will have come, compared to telling yourself you can’t do it, and never even trying. The difference is huge.


Words have power. Talking about things can cause things to happen, setting events in motion. The human will is capable of much more than we often believe, and with God’s help, all things are possible.


Have a safe weekend Swampfox,


Scott


Don't be discouraged, Swampfox
Scott, of course, has absolutely no idea whereof he speaks.

You know who you are, and his repetitions of lies from his ancient fiction have no weight whatsoever.

I have spoken with Scott and he is well-meaning, but he is _so_ deluded he can do you no good.

Don't be discouraged; don't give up; and most of all find yourself a boyfriend.
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